Mannerheim fraternization

63
Caring for artifacts directly related to the participation of Finland in Nazi aggression against the USSR, apparently, has become part of our compatriots an obsession, most likely due to foreign policy conditions.

Petersburg excesses with a memorial plaque Mannerheim ("Hanging Memory") were transformed by his fans into a new project. Namely - restoration as a “monument stories and reconciliation ”of the surviving sectors of the Mannerheim line, which took place, we recall, a few kilometers north of Leningrad, more precisely, near the Finnish-Soviet border of 1919 – 1940. She was also an outpost of the fascist blockade and joint hostilities of Berlin and Helsinki in the Leningrad region, in the south and southeast of the Karelian-Finnish SSR.



The official initiator of the creation of the “monument” is the Public Chamber of the Leningrad Region. And this idea is very extensively filed by the press service of the RF OP (https: //www.oprf.ru/about/interaction/region_chambers/431/2445/newsitem / ...). It is about visiting by “social activists” remnants of the line on the Karelian Isthmus and “discussing ways” not only of “preserving” but also of “developing (?! AB) monuments of military confrontation”. So, the Great Patriotic War, including the blockade of Leningrad, is just a “confrontation”?

Mannerheim fraternizationIt is with regret noted that “the majority (of the remnants of the line - A. B.) is not only not museified, but not even conserved, continues to collapse under the influence of ... nature and man.” And indeed, how did such “blasphemy” be allowed? The Piskarevsky Memorial is not politically correct and museumized when the Mannerheim Line is in destructive oblivion ... Following this logic, the “social activists” tomorrow will start the restoration - as a monument - of Hitler’s defense shield at Seelow Heights or, for example, on the approaches to Kaliningrad, Sevastopol, Pskov. As Mikhail Gorbachev used to say, one should think about shirsh ...

Professor A. Kirpichnikov, chairman of the profile commission of the Public Chamber, said: “We must ... create a monument to the heroic history of two peoples, their reconciliation. Using the example of the Mannerheim Line, we need to change the approaches to universal values, to accept the idea of ​​the senselessness of the colossal expenditures on defenses that have never in history saved their peoples from tragedies. ”

Painfully familiar rhetoric. And after all, they will move from words to deeds: “In the near future, the Public Chamber will gather proposals for the preservation and development of fortifications in the region from all interested parties, and then on their basis will prepare appeals to the governor of the Leningrad Region Alexander Drozdenko, the Ministries of Culture and Defense of Russia” . What can I say - the project is fateful according to the perestroika terminology.

Here, perhaps, it is useful to provide a contextual assessment of the aforementioned projects by the Finns themselves. The influential Helsinki Sanomat 20 of September 2016 of the year noted: “In Russia, they pay tribute to the time when Mannerheim was in service in the tsarist army. On the other hand, many cannot accept the fact that he fought on the side of fascist Germany and participated in the blockade of Leningrad. ” The opinion of the head of the Finnish Parliamentary Research Center Markku Jokisipili is given: “Yes, the Finnish army was a significant part of the blockade ring”. The same publication noted that the number of Soviet prisoners of war who “died in the Finnish camps (in 1939 – 1944 years. - A. B.) was approximately 22 thousands.” And the rank of Marshal of Finland Mannerheim was awarded in 1942 year - in the most difficult blockade period for Leningrad and just at the time when the German-Finnish troops conducted offensive operations on a vast sector of the front - from the city on the Neva to Murmansk.
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  1. +9
    23 August 2017 05: 45
    “We must ... create a monument to the heroic history of two peoples, their reconciliation. Using the Mannerheim line as an example, we need to change approaches to universal values,

    ... to forgive, forget, and rewrite history ... such brickworks are available ... angry
    1. +5
      23 August 2017 07: 38
      Quote: aszzz888
      forgive, forget and rewrite history

      keyword "forget" I am for giving Mannerheim’s line of museum status, our grandfathers and great-grandfathers perished during the storming and to show our descendants what the cost of victory was and what difficulties their descendants had to overcome; they just needed to be forgotten. Another thing is the context in which the story is presented. Let it be a monument to the courage of our soldiers and officers, and not a monument to Mannerheim, in the end, there are samples of German technology at the sites of the memorable battles of the Second World War and no one rolls their hands over this tantrum. And the article is somehow clumsy, even in the little things:
      As Mikhail Gorbachev used to say, broader need to think ...
      so said the 15-day-old Fedya Shurik in the Gaidai trilogy.
      1. +4
        23 August 2017 08: 46
        Quote: verner1967
        I am for the tradition of Mannerheim’s line of museum status, during its assault our grandfathers and great-grandfathers died and show descendants what the price is victories..

        Victory of what? Do you know that there was Finnish land behind the Mannerheim line? That the USSR attacked Finland, than actually threw the Finns into the arms of the Nazis?
        1. +4
          23 August 2017 09: 00
          Quote: Boris55
          That the USSR attacked Finland, than actually threw the Finns into the arms of the Nazis?

          Yes, I know that there was such a shameful page in the history of the USSR, but what does the Red Army and the Red Army commanders have to do with it, it’s not their fault that they were thrown on this line. History is such a thing that it is impossible to cover up some pages of it, and to teach descendants on others. History needs to be presented as it is, and not a "brief history of the CPSU (b)" with the change of the next leader. Plus to you from me, for the correct formulation of the question.
          1. +3
            23 August 2017 09: 10
            Quote: verner1967
            ... but what does the Red Army and Red Army commanders have to do with it, ...

            So I think, and where does Mannerheim defend his country and follow the orders of his command ...
            1. +3
              23 August 2017 09: 15
              Quote: Boris55
              So I think, and where does Mannerheim

              what does Mannerheim have to do with it? Maybe because the line was named after him?
              Actually, I wrote this:
              Quote: verner1967
              Another thing is the context in which the story is presented. Let it be a monument to the courage of our soldiers and officers, and not a monument to Mannerheim
              1. +2
                23 August 2017 09: 18
                Quote: verner1967
                Let it be a monument to the courage of our soldiers and officers, and not a monument to Mannerheim

                I still think that in a war of aggression, talking about the courage of the invaders is somehow not very decent.
                Soon, elections and border issues splitting our society will rise more and more ...

                Perhaps if we hadn’t attacked the Finns then they would have acted on our side, or at least be neutral, and there would be no blockade of Leningrad ...
                1. +5
                  23 August 2017 09: 26
                  Quote: Boris55
                  I still think that in a war of aggression, talking about the courage of the invaders is somehow not very decent.

                  but, nevertheless, the event then took place. And then, shy enough, Poles, Germans, British, Americans glorify their army, and we sprinkle ash on our heads. Let this "war of aggression" be a stain on the page of the communist period in the development of our country and a monument to the courage of the Red Army and Red Army commanders. As well as the senselessness of setting up fortresses between peoples, the only correct thought is the organizers of this museum.
                  1. 0
                    23 August 2017 11: 02
                    Quote: verner1967
                    And then, stop shy, Poles, Germans, British, Americans glorify their armies

                    All of them practically waged aggressive wars and they glorify those who provided them with a comfortable life due to the murders of innocent women, children, old people of other countries.
                    On May 8th they mourn that their "fellows" could not enslave and rob us. On May 9th we celebrate the victory over them. We will not be like parasites.
                    1. +2
                      23 August 2017 11: 04
                      Quote: Boris55
                      We will not be like parasites.

                      yeah, and let's agree with them, but we will forget our dead fathers and grandfathers.
                      1. 0
                        23 August 2017 11: 05
                        Quote: verner1967
                        yeah and let's agree with them

                        In my opinion, I am just calling for the opposite.
                2. +9
                  23 August 2017 12: 47
                  Quote: Boris55
                  Perhaps if we hadn’t attacked the Finns then they would have acted on our side, or at least be neutral, and there would be no blockade of Leningrad ...

                  The fruits of the Unified State Exam are bitter ... Read how Finland, led by Mannerheim, behaved during the Civil War in Russia, what monstrous crimes the Finns committed, invading Soviet Russia, what Russophobic hysteria escalated in 20-30. Finland’s entry into the war against the Soviet Union was determined by the entire policy of Mannerheim and do not wring a piece of land from them, do not push the border, it is not yet known how things would go. And then dragged on, damn it: Ah, the evil Stalin offended the little white fluffy Finns and Poles ...
                  1. +1
                    23 August 2017 13: 10
                    Quote: Laurel
                    Read how Finland behaved, led by Mannerheim

                    EGE say? Oh well... laughing
                    Led by Mannerheim, at the insistence of Stalin, Finland was from 1944 to 1946. And how did she behave then?
                    1. +5
                      23 August 2017 14: 20
                      It seems that you are not aware that there were two more Soviet-Finnish wars:
                      1. The Soviet-Finnish War of 1918-1920
                      - date of declaration of war by Finland: May 15, 1918
                      - date of the beginning of peace negotiations: April 12, 1920
                      - date of the actual liberation of Karelia from the Finnish troops: July 20, 1920
                      - date of the formal cessation of war: October 14, 1920

                      2. The Soviet-Finnish conflict over Karelia in 1921-1922
                      - date of the beginning of the Finnish intervention: October 24, 1921
                      - date of the expulsion of the interventionists beyond the borders of the RSFSR and the end of hostilities: February 17, 1922

                      The objectives of the Finnish intervention: the secession from the RSFSR of the territories of East Karelia and Arkhangelsk Karelia from the White Sea to the Baltic with a border in the east along the Zaonezhsky regions of Lake Onega and the annexation of this territory to Finland with the aim of creating Greater Finland.
                      The calculation of the interventionists is for the military and economic depletion of Soviet Russia after the civil war and for the international isolation of Soviet Russia after the end of the Entente intervention and its conclusion of the Versailles peace with Germany.

                      What did the Finns do under the command of the "Russian officer" Mannerheim not only with the prisoners, but also with the Russian civilian population in the temporarily occupied territories, or will you look for them yourself?
                      1. +1
                        23 August 2017 14: 43
                        Civil war was fought throughout tsarist Russia. There was more than one article about the Finnish atrocities in VO. Whether their atrocities were very different from the atrocities of the White Guards, Makhnovists, Poles, Dushmans, etc. — I think not very much. The only difference is the national color. Do I justify the Finns - no. Do I justify the whites - no.
                    2. +1
                      23 August 2017 14: 25
                      I apologize for the exam. I went over your publications and realized that I was very wrong.
                  2. 0
                    23 August 2017 14: 49
                    It’s a pity I can put a plus sign :( A very good answer to everyone who considers the USSR an “evil empire”!
                3. 0
                  23 August 2017 14: 44
                  What is a "predatory war" when the finals for this piece of land were offered 1,5 times the size of the territory?
                  1. +1
                    23 August 2017 14: 46
                    Quote: ser6119
                    What is a "predatory war" when the finals for this piece of land were offered 1,5 times the size of the territory?

                    Did you even understand what you wrote laughing
                  2. +4
                    23 August 2017 14: 54
                    Quote: ser6119
                    In the finals for this piece of land offered 1,5 times the size of the territory?

                    and on this basis can you chop off what you like? And they are not entitled to refuse?
                4. 0
                  23 August 2017 18: 10
                  Perhaps if we hadn’t attacked the Finns then they would have acted on our side, or at least be neutral, and there would be no blockade of Leningrad ...

                  Read about the reasons for the outbreak of the war. After all Russians were destroyed in Finland in the 20-s, and the Finns themselves claimed Soviet territory in Karelia, there could be no peace. What the Finns themselves said, rejecting all the proposals of the USSR. If not for this war, all Leningraders would be killed by the Germans together with the Finns.
                  So for us it was a fair war. And there is no such thing as a war of conquest in military science.
                5. +1
                  23 August 2017 20: 30
                  Quote: Boris55
                  Perhaps if we hadn’t attacked the Finns then they would have acted on our side, or at least be neutral, and there would be no blockade of Leningrad ...

                  are you so naive ?!

                  The outbreak of the first Soviet-Finnish war during the already civil war in Russia lasted until 1920, when the Tartu (Yuryev) peace treaty was concluded. Some Finnish politicians, such as Juho Paasikivi, regarded this treaty as “too good a world”, believing that the great powers compromise only when absolutely necessary. K. Mannerheim, former activists and separatist leaders in Karelia, on the contrary, considered this world a disgrace and betrayal of compatriots, and representative Rebol Hans Hokon (Bobi) Siven (Finnish. HH (Bobi) Siven) shot himself in protest. Mannerheim, in his "swearing oath", spoke out publicly for the conquest of East Karelia, which had not previously been part of the Principality of Finland.
        2. +5
          23 August 2017 13: 28
          Quote: Boris55
          Victory of what? Do you know that there was Finnish land behind the Mannerheim line?

          Behind the Mannerheim Line and in front of it was the Vyborg Lianya, transmitted bald dandy Finland as a gift for the entry of Finland into the Russian Empire.
          Quote: Boris55
          That the USSR attacked Finland, than actually threw the Finns into the arms of the Nazis?

          And they would be there anyway. For the survival of the small countries of Europe depended on their strong patrons. Or a disadvantage - when it was cheaper to leave the state neutral than to occupy it.
          After June 1940, Finland no longer has its former strong patrons, it borders on the USSR and has extremely strained relations with the USSR even without the Special Forces War - for it has already managed to fight twice with the RSFSR and claims to Karelia.
          Accordingly, the Finns will begin to look for a new patron. The USSR disappears immediately. And who is left?
          1. +1
            23 August 2017 15: 11
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Behind the Mannerheim Line and in front of it was the Vyborg Lanny, handed over by the bald dandy of Finland as a gift for joining this Finland into the Russian Empire.

            belay
            Finland NEVER joined the Republic of Ingushetia. Common Swedish provinces transferred RI Sweden under the Friedrichsham Treaty, read its text.

            And the Finns ended up in Vyborg land as a result of the fact that a certain Ulyanov, recognizing the independence of Finland, did not even bother to stipulate borders about which not a word was said. The result-bloody war and hundreds of thousands of dead.
            1. 0
              24 August 2017 10: 11
              Quote: Olgovich
              Finland NEVER joined the Republic of Ingushetia. Regular Swedish provinces are transferred to RI by Sweden under the Friedrichsham Treaty, read its text.

              A fair remark - yes, it was transmitted to the provinces. In the text of the agreement, Finland refers to territories, and not a state entity.
              But then everything is even worse: it turns out that Alexander the First not only transferred the Vyborg / Finland Province to the VKF, but also laid a Finnish bomb under the Russian state - forming the Grand Duchy of Finland.
              This is what the Swedes conveyed - yes, you are right, these are ordinary provinces:
              His Majesty the King of Sweden, both for himself and for the successors of his throne and the Kingdom of Sweden, refuses irrevocably and permanently in favor of His Majesty the Emperor of All Russia and the successors of His throne and the Russian Empire, all of their rights and claims to the provinces below are signified, won by His Imperial Majesties in the current war from the Swedish Power, namely: in the province of Kummenegord, Nyuland and Tavastgus, Abov and Bienerborg with the islands of Aland, Savolak and Karelian, Vazov, Uleaborg and part of western Botnia to the Torneo River, as the decision will be in the next article on the appointment in the next article borders.
              These provinces with all inhabitants, cities, ports, fortresses, villages and islands, as well as their accessories, advantages, rights and benefits will henceforth be the property and sovereign possession of the Russian Empire and will forever join it.

              And here is what Alexander the First accepted:
              By the Grace of God We are Alexander the first Emperor and Autocrat of All Russia. and the other, and the other, and the other, Having assumed the control of the Grand Duchy of Finland by the will of the Almighty, we recognized for our benefit to reaffirm and certify the Religion, the fundamental laws, rights and advantages with which each state of this Principality in particular and all its subjects inhabiting from small to great by the Constitutions they have hitherto used them, promising to keep them in inviolability and their immutable strength and action; in witness whereof, with this handwritten signature, Our favor was approved.
              1. 0
                24 August 2017 11: 42
                Quote: Alexey RA
                forming the Grand Duchy of Finland.

                It was an experiment, erroneous. But one of a kind.
        3. +4
          23 August 2017 18: 03
          Quote: Boris55
          Victory of what? Do you know that there was Finnish land behind the Mannerheim line? That the USSR attacked Finland, than actually threw the Finns into the arms of the Nazis?

          sorry what? But if you teach history and not brochures from the Yeltsincenter? what kind of won was back in 1920? no, don’t know? Let me remind you that for 1939 Finland already worked closely with Hitler Germany and it was for this reason that it refused offers to move borders in exchange for territory.
          so that all these snot that treacherously attacked the pacifists of the Finns you tell elsewhere wink
      2. +3
        23 August 2017 09: 24
        Quote: verner1967
        I am for giving Mannerheim’s line of museum status, our grandfathers and great-grandfathers perished during the storming and to show the descendants what the price of victory was and what difficulties their descendants had to overcome; they just needed to be forgotten.

        Check out the Northern Fortress website. It has a lot of interesting things. And about the Mannerheim Line, too. http://www.nortfort.ru/

        Mass graves of Soviet soldiers who fell during the storming of the Summa-Lahde section of the Mannerheim Line. "
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +1
      23 August 2017 08: 35
      Quote: aszzz888
      “We must ... create a monument to the heroic history of two peoples, their reconciliation. Using the Mannerheim line as an example, we need to change approaches to universal values,

      ... to forgive, forget, and rewrite history ... such brickworks are available ... angry

      Kirpichnikov --- a significant surname in the February revolution. The article was.
  2. +9
    23 August 2017 06: 05
    Professor A. Kirpichnikov, chairman of the relevant commission of the Public Chamber, believes: “We must ... create a monument to the heroic history of the two peoples, their reconciliation. Using the Mannerheim line as an example, we need to change approaches to universal values.

    Yeah, rebuild, arm and give back to the NATO bloc. For the time being, will all these ramolitiks forgive everything? How much they will carry their crazy ideas. Cosmopolitans, burn in hell.
    Maybe it's time to re-publish memoirs of eyewitnesses and participants in the defense of Leningrad.
    Like these ones. "V.E. Korzh." Safety margin. "Chapter One: Nothing, it doesn’t matter. We do a lot for the first time in Leningrad. The blockade will teach everything. It bothers me differently: did I understand the brigade commander correctly. Well, the excavator is okay. But with what is the cemetery here?
    We are overtaking a string of people. Having wrapped themselves in the eyes, they wander bent over and drag the sled behind them - both large and very tiny, for children. Legs in woolen socks protruded and dragged through the snow from under a short flannel blanket. And there, a hand hangs from a sled. Waxed twisted fingers rake in the snow ... [5]
    Tumbling heavily on bumps, the truck rumbled. Behind him again and again. “Vote” - not one stops. My sailors are starting to get angry. They shower the next truck with exquisite swearing. The car stops, the driver in a greasy padded jacket staggers out of the cab and looks at us angrily.
    - Well, that went broke? Look! - He threw back the tarp. - Where do you sit - on the head or on the legs?
    We recoiled: in the back - corpses. They didn’t ask anyone else to give us a lift, although the path was not long - for the New Village. "
    1. +6
      23 August 2017 08: 26
      .
      Probably the development of the Leningrad Region is impossible without not fawning before the Finns? OFIGET !!!!!!
      1. +2
        23 August 2017 14: 45
        Quote: Reptiloid
        Probably the development of the Leningrad Region is impossible without not fawning before the Finns? OFIGET !!!!!!

        Yes, everything is possible there. This Drozdenko (governor of Leningrad Oblast), apparently, caught this virus from our city authorities and ZakS. Just in the process of these "dances with the boards", they appeared in all their "glory" (a herd of obedient sheep, if necessary (as directed), turns into a flock of hyenas to deal with opponents, of whom there are almost none). No, no questions asked - fortifications must be preserved, as part of the story, BUT ... without snot about "repentance and rethinking." Now they - repentance ... Yeah. Only, here, I’ll take out a photo where my grandfather and fellow soldiers in Vyborg in 1940, already after the hospital (frostbite). Let those who have a gesheft in "Helsinki district of the Leningrad region" repent.
  3. +6
    23 August 2017 06: 53
    The Public Chamber has something to do, those who died on the Nevsky Piglet, for example.

    But if the private trader himself, for his money, restores the pillbox millionaire, then he will be interesting and visit, as an example of the fortification construction of the 30s of the last century.
    I would visit how I visited the museums in Germany Speyer and Sinheim with interesting exhibits of technology, including and the Hitler period (minisubmarines, man-torpedoes, etc.).
    And after all, our line-took! And to see what they took, it means to appreciate the greatness of the feat of our soldiers.
  4. +4
    23 August 2017 07: 25
    Correctly says the OP - the monuments of war must be preserved. It is necessary that the grandchildren can see what the Russian soldier has overcome. We just need to remember not only those who died in Finnish concentration camps, but also 125 thousand Finns repressed before the war. About the Finnish villages burned by the Red Guards in the 18-19 years in northern Ingermanlandii. War is a mutual thing. Better to live in peace with neighbors. And you need to protect and restore not only the Enkel and VT line but also the KAUr bunkers
    The Soviet government had the intelligence and dignity to maintain friendly relations with Finland. The country was powerful and confident. And now from weakness and complexes we put our teeth on good neighbors. Not good.
    1. +2
      23 August 2017 07: 29
      And now from weakness and complexes we put our teeth on good neighbors. Not good.


      It's not good to tryndet about good neighbors ...
      Is it Poles or good neighbors or the Kiev regime is kind, or maybe the EU itself is an angel of kindness ... I'm not talking about such a neighbor as the United States
      with wolves live by wolf howl
      ...

      why lie then ... if you delve into the history of these good neighbors a lot of sins will be typed in the form of killed innocent souls.
    2. +5
      23 August 2017 08: 12
      Quote: Deck
      About the Finnish villages burned by the Red Guards in the 18-19 years in northern Ingermanlandii.

      or maybe then remember about the atrocities of the white-skinned, and how it will work with Katyn
      1. +3
        23 August 2017 08: 59
        Have you even read what is written? It’s high time with the Finns to remember the slogan “never again” and not comb the old mutual insults. There are dead soldiers in any country.
        1. +2
          23 August 2017 11: 52
          Quote: Deck
          There are dead soldiers in any country.

          ii? !!!!
          we will return the tablet to monerheim ?!
    3. +3
      23 August 2017 09: 01
      What is the problem? Restore bunkers and bunkers in which our soldiers stood to death .. You do not do this. And no one does
  5. +4
    23 August 2017 07: 39
    The Finns are smarter than our "public men." Sometimes one gets the impression that a special selection of “members” is going on in various OPs (regional, under the President) - so many% of patriots, so many% of liberals, so many% of the rest. And everyone needs to show that he is worthy of his place. So various ideas are sometimes born that go against the bulk of the population.
  6. +4
    23 August 2017 08: 05
    This monument to Mannerheim is not in Russia, but in Finland. And in the country that he created, there is still an unequivocal attitude towards him. And so with us it is ESPECIALLY.
  7. +1
    23 August 2017 08: 22
    Manarheim is one of the commanders who carried out the orders of the supreme commander.
    Who, when ruled Finland.
    Stolberg, Caarlo Juho (1919-1925)
    Relander, Lauri Christian (1925-1931)
    Swinhuvud, Per Ewind (1931-1937)
    Kallio, Kyusti (1937-1940)
    Ryti, Risto (1940-1944)
    Mannerheim, Carl Gustav Emil (1944-1946)
    What crimes did Manarheim commit against us as the head of Finland?
    1. +4
      23 August 2017 10: 49
      Boris, for the umpteenth time, I’m watching you advocate for a war criminal ... I think you’ve never visited the Museum of the Siege of Leningrad, you weren’t at the Piskarevsky Memorial Cemetery ... we didn’t read 9 lines about death from the terrible war diary Tanya Savicheva ... I even doubt doubt creeps in, and your ancestors fought on the wrong side ?!
      Unfortunately, you are not the only one, you are many! Citizen Boris Chubais generally denies that there was a blockade of Leningrad! So you have not gone far from him ... Kirpichnikov, another clown-mediator!
      Just know, Boris, that the Truth in life is one and it sooner or later puts everything in its place, including in people's memory! No matter how you and your kind wouldn’t whitewash Mannerheim, but you don’t wash the black dog!
      1. 0
        23 August 2017 12: 00
        Quote: Finches
        only know, Boris, that the Truth in life is one

        About truth and truth (figured it out myself).

        At sunset, a flock of village children, as usual, gathered around Grandfather Fomich.
        Olezhka asked:
        - Grandfather, what is the truth?
        “This is what you believe in.”
        - But is it really different?
        - It happens. Do you believe me to be old?
        - Yes I believe you.
        - This is your truth, but your father believes that I am still young - this is his truth.
        “So what is it that everyone has their own truth?”
        - It turns out that so.
        The kids thought. Ilya broke the silence:
        - Grandfather, what is truth?
        “This is what all of you believe.”
        - Grandfather, can there be different truths?
        - Maybe. Earlier, people believed that the earth was flat and that was the truth. Now people believe that the earth is round and that is the truth.
        Alena with genuine surprise in her voice asked:
        - Grandfather, what then, if the truth is different for everyone? I heard that truth is born in a dispute.
        - No, Alyonushka. In a dispute, only enmity is born. One must live in love and respect. Then there will be truth and truth alone for all, and while people argue, there will be no peace either in the house, in the village, or in the whole World ...

        ps
        And my question didn’t answer the question ... And by the way, my grandfather in a tank near Stalingrad burned down.
  8. +6
    23 August 2017 08: 55
    It would be better to attend to the existence of the German memorial in Sologubovka. Merkel arrived, Schroeder ... The very existence of this cemetery of fascists holding a huge number of people in a hungry blockade is an insult to the memory of my father and grandmother who survived the blockade from beginning to end, my grandfather who fought in Pogost and still returned from the war, whose father-in-law was taken out with an orphanage on the Road of Life and all the blockades ..
    As for Mannerheim, I personally opposed the demolition of his memorial plaque - it was a plaque in memory of the Russian Officer, and not the fascist military commander. On it it was so indicated that the Russian Officer Karl Mannerheim. Mannerheim did a lot for Russia and one of the few did not violate the Oath. This, by the way, is the root of the conflict "according to Mannerheim" ... But I consider this fuss with the Mannerheim line to be stupid, or even treason.
    1. 0
      23 August 2017 09: 13
      Quote: Alexey Sobolev
      It would be better to attend to the existence of the German memorial

      Do not be like ukram and pshek. With the dead, it’s not for you to attack.

      Quote: Alexey Sobolev
      But I consider this fuss with the Mannerheim line stupid, or even betrayal.

      I would say with a malicious act to undermine stability in Russian society.
    2. +6
      23 August 2017 11: 32
      Russian officer, general, Anton Denikin did not make a deal with Hitler and died suspiciously quickly. Here is the Russian General, not the whore Manerheim. And how many Russian officers in Europe opposed the Germans? We don’t even know their names.
      1. +1
        23 August 2017 11: 58
        Anton Ivanovich Denikin was one of the pillars of the White movement, which for the most part was not a supporter of the imperial power, which in fact was sworn. The white movement had little in common with the idea of ​​the overthrown state system of Russia. Officers, I recall, they were. Mannerheim did not change the Oath to the Tsar and was equally against both red and white. This is the difference between Denikin and Mannerheim.
        The fact that Denikin and many other officers did not make a deal with Hitler speaks only about their attitude towards Hitler, but not about love for Soviet Russia. Mannerheim can be said to have made a deal with Hitler (any union is always a deal) with two goals: to increase the territory of Finland and to destroy the Soviet regime that finally overthrew what he swore. But that's not the point. The memorial plaque to Mannerheim was, I repeat, meant as a monument to the Russian officer and scientist (for a minute so), and not as the Finnish military commander. Yes, its erection in Leningrad (in St. Petersburg, but with respect to Mannerheim it is Leningrad) is more than debatable for obvious reasons and I’m not going to justify it in blocking Leningrad. But I want to stay away from labels. There are examples of those who have sworn Denikin’s Oath and for example Brusilov (the Soviet military leader after 18, the one whose name was the famous breakthrough) is available .. But this is another question .. There is more historical and theoretical debate and it is endless. Hitler, by the way, was also a good artist, his work is appreciated (and even if only because Hitler is an informational occasion), but apart from the name there is no connection between the artist Hitler and the fascist Hitler.

        By the way, a small historical reference .. The story "Dawns Here Are Quiet" was written based on real events when a detachment of Finnish saboteurs (if I didn’t lie, it was in the winter) shot our hospital with wounded and paramedics. By the way, it was in the same places where the action of the story took place. And also somewhere in 42-43 years. In fact, this is a war crime. And in Finland, the fighters of that detachment are still considered heroes and it seems they even erected a monument.
        This is what I mean .. And the fact that the idea of ​​a monument from the Mannerheim line is a bad idea. This is equivalent to just that cemetery in Sologubovka. The cemetery of those who came to kill our people and excuses or any memory in my opinion they are not worthy. It's like reading Chikatilo. Now, if we were talking about a slightly less well-known KaUR, then it is necessary to support it. Because the fighters of KaUR and other SD defended people from killers.
        1. +1
          23 August 2017 15: 06
          There were generals of the Russian Empire who did not swear allegiance to the Provisional Government (They did not change their oath — to Serve Russia) But they served the USSR, remember the famous Brusilov, Shaposhnikov (Chief of General Staff)!
  9. +4
    23 August 2017 09: 23
    The article is somewhat chaotic and the reaction to it is corresponding. But in general, the point is not in praising Mannerheim, but in preserving a little of our military history. I will explain. The bunkers of the Karelian fortified area do not have the status of monuments and are plundered and defeated by vandals, some of them were restored by enthusiasts and turned into museums or some of the remaining artifacts were taken to a museum in Sestroretsk. But with the pillboxes of the Mannheim line, this is not the case, although the same Finns preserve and conduct excursions to similar fortifications at home, which develops both tourism and their patriotism and brings a denyuzhku for maintenance. It comes to the ridiculous, our military historians often travel to Finland to see how it really looked like what we had in the form of looted skeletons.
    In fact, most bunkers are undermined either during the Soviet-Finnish battles or after them, some in general in the post-war period during the training of combat engineer units. The same bunker "Millionaire" is almost broken, but you can climb the underground barracks from the entrance to the bunker to the western machine-gun casemate. And most importantly, in many places everything is filthy. It would be enough just to give legal status to the remaining buildings so that there was an opportunity to put them in order, organize approaches to them, and then it would be possible to carry excursions, kids, to show them a living story. There is another aspect, land. Those who are in the know about the existence of Zvezdochka gardening on the so-called Srednevyborgskoye Shosse, so it is also called bone gardening, because it is located directly in front of or between the pillboxes of the Finnish fortified area Summa-Khotinen in the area of ​​the former village of Summa. There is also the “Death Valley” between the Millionaire and Poppius bunkers, and in front of the Inkel bunkers in the Primorsky Highway on the shores of the Gulf of Finland, there are also enough remains of our fighters as they are. So, the status of a monument or another, but being protected by the state, would help at least not to allow anything to be built on these lands or, in any case, to have a prerequisite before construction to carry out work to search for and rebury the remains.
  10. +2
    23 August 2017 09: 35
    Can I clarify? Who rules the country now? When is this chaos going on? Or how a bad-good policeman one of Crimea joins. another mannerheim hangs.
  11. +2
    23 August 2017 10: 38
    Who don’t give a machine gun to shoot those who invented it.
  12. +3
    23 August 2017 10: 43
    Quote: Deck
    Correctly says the OP - the monuments of war must be preserved. It is necessary that the grandchildren can see what the Russian soldier has overcome. We just need to remember not only those who died in Finnish concentration camps, but also 125 thousand Finns repressed before the war. About the Finnish villages burned by the Red Guards in the 18-19 years in northern Ingermanlandii. War is a mutual thing. Better to live in peace with neighbors. And you need to protect and restore not only the Enkel and VT line but also the KAUr bunkers
    The Soviet government had the intelligence and dignity to maintain friendly relations with Finland. The country was powerful and confident. And now from weakness and complexes we put our teeth on good neighbors. Not good.

    Let's still forgive Bandera as good neighbors, or do you have a conscience.?
    1. +1
      23 August 2017 11: 45
      And let's not do cheap demagoguery! Dot sj 4 killed about three thousand of our soldiers in a week. And in memory of them, several homemade crosses. Scratch your tongue further, patriot
      1. +1
        23 August 2017 15: 14
        So put a memorial stele in honor of the dead 3 thousand? the Red Army at this bunker!
        1. +3
          23 August 2017 15: 30
          I helped to put one of the memorial crosses in memory of the fighters of the 123rd division, but what did you do? Drank a beer and lay on the couch?
  13. +1
    23 August 2017 11: 53
    "Museum of the United Europe attack on the USSR and European crimes committed in the USSR"
  14. +1
    23 August 2017 12: 37
    Namely, the restoration as a “monument of history and reconciliation” of the surviving sectors of the Mannerheim line, passing, recall, a few kilometers north of Leningrad, more precisely - at the Finnish-Soviet border of 1919-1940.

    Undertale: The Mannerheim Line did not pass at the border.
  15. +1
    23 August 2017 14: 51
    Quote: Boris55
    Do I justify the Finns - no. Do I justify the whites - no.

    and green? and red?
  16. 0
    23 August 2017 15: 08
    Quote: Gardamir
    Can I clarify? Who rules the country now? When is this chaos going on? Or how a bad-good policeman one of Crimea joins. another mannerheim hangs.

    Manerheim hung with pleasure;) if someone helped the gallows to make!
  17. 0
    23 August 2017 15: 16
    Quote: hhhhhhh
    "Museum of the United Europe attack on the USSR and European crimes committed in the USSR"

    Not Europeans against the USSR, but the USSR against geyropov associations !!!
  18. +3
    23 August 2017 19: 01
    What do these authors of articles about the enemy of the Russian people Mannerheim achieve? I will give little known facts. This enemy on June 20, 1941 (two days before the German attack on the USSR) gave the command to land troops in the area of ​​the 6th BBK gateway. The goal is to explode platinum and stop the movement of submarines and boats from Leningrad to Murmansk to strengthen the Northern Fleet. By June 22, 1941, the landing was destroyed. Look at the pictures of Russian children in concentration camps captured by the Finns of our territory. It was this bastard who created 4 such camps, where hundreds of Russian children were dying of hunger and disease. The aim of the war of this enemy of the Russian people was to create a great Finland, which should have included the White Sea and Arkhangelsk. Our Tsar Ivan the Terrible taught them how to fight with Russia. After one episode during his tenure, the Finns and Swedes were afraid for 4 years to approach the borders of Russia. And then they tried to hang a board to the enemy of our people and St. Petersburg. I have the honor.
  19. +1
    25 August 2017 15: 41
    the author of the article could also draw up an appeal on behalf of the VO subscribers, and submit it to the governor of the oblast oblast. they must be acted upon by the gentlemen’s methods, and a couple of angry or ironic comments on VO will not be returned to historical memory.
    and more often talk with children, they should understand the paternal point of view. and that is, liberistic truth, but OUR truth, we somehow could not and did not have time to convey to our children and grandchildren.

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