Military Review

Clothes for ... chain mail

116
On the pages of the VO, it has already been repeatedly told that there were three epochs in the development of armor, that is, of protective weapons used in the Middle Ages. These are the “age of chain mail”, “the age of chain mail and lamellar armor” and the “age of white metal armor”. And the general term of all these three epochs is long enough. From the 1066 of the year, that is, the battle of Hastings, and up to the 1700 of the year. Of course, we can say that the cavalry riders are found in miniatures from St. Galen, that the soldiers of Charlemagne, and he himself is described as people "dressed in steel." But ... only "their steel", that is, the armor was not chain mail.



Aquamanil ("Aquarius") - a vessel for water from Lower Saxony 1275 - 1299. Museum of the Middle Ages, Boulogne.

There is a lot of evidence that these were metal plates sewn on the skin, but the chain mail at that time did not have a mass distribution. Actually, they became popular among Vikings as locally popular armor, because they were comfortable to row, and through them they spread to Europe, where after the Avars were defeated, the threat from horse archers weakened dramatically, which allowed the chain armor to move into first place.


Whatever it was, on the Bayesian canvas you see warriors, with whom she covers her leg and then - just in front. As a rule, such equipment have kings, but not ordinary warriors.

However, by the 1170 year, that is, by the time of the killing of Thomas Becket, the figure of the warrior was almost completely covered with chain mail: his head, arms, legs — all these parts of his body were now covered by chain mail. Helmets were painted and it was the only “bright spot” against the general background of this “metal figure”, which was the equestrian warrior of this era.

Clothes for ... chain mail

Knight 1190 g. Angus McBride drawing. On it, as you can see, a figure is shown in metal, but with outward-looking rich clothing and again in chained stockings, covered with fabric!

However, over time, the "bare mail" begin to fade, or rather, they begin to hide behind clothing, which receives the name surco. It is believed that surco in the era of the Crusades to the East, the Europeans took over the custom of Muslim soldiers to wear protective weapons, covering it with clothes made of cloth, because otherwise it is very heated in the sun. For example, in the drawings from the “Winchester Bible”, dating back to the middle of the XII century, warriors in caftans, called in French surco, are already depicted. The first samples of such clothing were a long-sex apparel with cuts both in front, and behind, and without sleeves (which, by the way, is reported in Wikipedia). In the thirteenth century she gained special popularity and became, one can say, almost the most conspicuous part of the knightly "costume." It seems that the functional significance of this outfit is quite obvious - to protect the wearer from the rain (and his chain mail from rust) and the sun. But historians D. Edge and D. Paddock believe that such a wide distribution of surcot is still not entirely explicable. It is possible that this was a kind of tribute to fashion and a means to stand out for the quality and richness of the fabric, as well as embroidered heraldic images, which then began to cover it.


Thumbnail from the Bible of Macieus. OK. 1250 g. On it we see riders both in surcoats and in “bare” chain mail. (Pierpont Morgan Library, New York)

K. Blair also points out that in the middle of the XII century. the practice of military affairs of the knightly class included the wearing of a long cloth garment, called surco. And he notes that at different times and different scientists put forward different ideas about the reasons for his appearance, but none of them has enough good reasons. That is, for about a hundred years the knights were content with clothes of chain mail, and then for some reason they suddenly began to close it. Opinion that surco protected from the weather, is based on such knightly poetic work, like "Confession of King Arthur", which literally reads the following:
Clothes green
So that the armor is clean
The vagaries of rain are not terrible.
It is only doubtful that such loose and long clothes, and even without sleeves, could effectively perform such a function. Well, what if it was a way to demonstrate the coat of arms of a surcoe? Yes, indeed, the system of heraldry, like Surco, appeared about the same time. However, it is known that images of coats of arms and coat of arms on them were far from always. And it often happened that the surco had one color, the horse blanket had another color, and the coat of arms had completely different colors. It is possible that the fashion for these clothes was born under the influence of the church, since the body-mail of the chain mail too “anatomized” the body of the one they were wearing.


Capitalized miniature in the Northern French manuscript 1280 - 1290, depicting knights with heraldic shields in their hands and the same horse blankets, but in a surcoat of a completely different color that does not coincide with the color of the coat of arms. (National Library of France, Paris)


A miniature from the same manuscript and with a similar image of blankets and surcoat!

So it may be that walking just in chain mail has become "indecent." K. Blair also says that the spacious outerwear covering the armor could have been taken over by the Crusaders in the East from the Muslims and after that appear in Europe.


Miniature from “The novel about Tristan”, 1320 - 1330 (National Library of France, Paris)

The most ancient image of Surco, the British historian C. Blair, found on the seal of Valeran de Bellonte, Count Mellan and Count Wooster, who was on his letter, roughly 1150 of the year. It is important that not only his earliest image, but also the fact that this garment itself is of a rather unusual appearance. So, he has sleeves, and they reach the wrists. Such a cut became characteristic only for the second half of the 13th century. and spread in the second half of the XVI century, although on the whole it was encountered rather rarely. A traditional surcoat is a cloak with a hole for the head. It is not sewn at the sides, so it freely falls from top to bottom. At the same surcoat to the thighs, it fits snugly enough to the body, but then in the form of a wide skirt it diverges to the very ankles, and has cuts for riding, that is, it is not so primitively tailored. Sleeves to wrists fit very tightly, then expand and form something like long pennant-like ribbons.


Miniature 1250 town of “Roman about Alexander” Abbey of St. Albanos. (University of Cambridge Library)

Similar to Surco, albeit without sleeves, we see on a painted screensaver from the Winchester Bible (Joshua's book), approx. 1170 of the year, and also on the Great Seal of King John, referring to the 1199 of the year. Until 1210, surcoat on miniatures is quite rare, but then almost no miniature can do without it. From about 1320, it looks like a robe of loose fit without sleeves and with large armholes and a “skirt” with a slit that extends to the middle of the calf. But there were also options up to the ankles and even to the knees. Somewhere from 1220, there can also be a surcoat with sleeves up to the elbows, although such images to the second half of the 13th century. few.


Soissonsky Psalter 1200 - 1297 (National Library of France, Paris). A timeless topic, isn't it? David kills Goliath and cuts off his head. But another is interesting - Goliath is an exact copy of a knight of that time. The fact is that the concept of temporary changes did not exist at that time, these were pre-Deutscheville times, and even the distant past of artists was imagined as “the present”.

British historians D. Edge and D. Paddock also believe that such a wide distribution of surcoe is not entirely explicable. In their opinion, it could be just a tribute to fashion, and a means to stand out, because surcoe often sewed from expensive fabrics. In addition, heraldic images were also embroidered on them (although not always). On the other hand, it was the white surco from the usual canvas that gave the tsar the best protection from the sun, and with the crosses sewn on it he expressed the very essence of the crusading movement. E. Oakeshott does not use the term Surco in her works, but calls him Cotta, indicating that she was not in general use until 1210, although some of her samples were known before the end of the 12th century. In his opinion, its exact purpose is still unknown. It is believed that it was brought from the Holy Land by the Crusaders, where such a thing was simply vital, so that the scorching sun did not overheat the chain mail. But then it turns out that the Cotts in the West were unknown and did not even think about it until the 1200 year. But the soldiers of Christ began to return from the East already in the same 1099 year, that is, a century before the deadline. So why then Kottu not use much earlier? It is possible, according to E. Oakshott, to assert that this piece of clothing was used for identification purposes, since it was the coat of arms of the owner. This is also a very likely assumption, since the cotta became fashionable almost simultaneously with the advent of heraldry. But ... the coats of arms were not always depicted on the Cotte Surco. It happened and so - and the images of those years confirm that the cotta could be of the same color, the shield of the other, and the horse blanket of the third! “I think,” continues E. Oakshott, “that the cotta was a tribute to fashion; of course, it was used for practical purposes, since it really covered most of the surface of the chain mail from the sun and to some extent from moisture and provided an excellent opportunity to display the emblems; this garment was invaluable in cases where it was necessary to identify the victim on the battlefield, because the helmet could easily roll away, and his face from being wounded to become unrecognizable. However, no matter what the purpose of the cotta was from the point of view of vital necessity, it was a cheerful and colorful outfit that turned the sullen and stern knight in dark brown-gray mail into a gallant and brilliant figure - and this was quite consistent with the flourish that reached its end XII century. funny science of chivalry.


Walter von Metz with miniatures from the Manesky Code.


Johann von Brabant with miniatures from the Manesky Code (in a helmet with a dragon's head). As you can see, over time it has become a tradition - to wear clothes with the image of a coat of arms and the same horse blanket with coats of arms to cover your horse.

The cut of the cotta often changed, but it depended not only on the era, but on the knight’s personal preferences: in the 13th century. it could sew very long or, on the contrary, very short, as with sleeves or without them. In general, this is a simple robe, like a nightgown, sleeveless, but with a slit from the hem and almost to the waist in front and behind, so that its owner can easily sit in the saddle. Although in nine cases out of ten it was sewed without sleeves, emphasizes E. Oakshott, there were also known cotts with sleeves, and some of them had sleeves only up to the elbows, and some even to the wrists.


Effigia Berengar de Pujvert (1278). Well, this knight decided to stand out among others, dressed in rich cloth!


Richard Wellesborn de Montfort (1286) It looks strange, doesn’t it? In surco, the “rising griffon”, on the shield, the “cowardly rising lion” ...

That is, over time, the cotta or surcoat acquired the character of "uniform". Moreover, the known copies, sewn of velvet and even brocade, and yes even generously embroidered with coats of arms. And, in fact, why not wear such knights? It was essentially the only outerwear for them that they could afford, and therefore had to use all their imagination to show their wealth and nobility. Kotts made from fabrics of bright colors embroidered with silver and gold nicely contrasted with purely military "metal clothing" and allowed the feudal lords to demonstrate their wealth and subtle artistic taste (or its complete absence - VO). "


By 1340, knightly protective gear has become much more difficult, but surco is still worn! Fig. Angus McBride


Miniature "The Chronicles of Versailles" 1370 Regensburg. Bavarian State Library, Germany). As you can see, Surcoeus is no longer on the Knights, but nevertheless, their armor for the torso is covered with colored fabric!

Later, Surco gave way to a shorter jupone jacket that looked like a jacket tight to the armor, barely reaching the hips. However, with all the changes dictated by fashion, the heraldic nature of this garment remained unchanged. This is evidenced, for example, by a jooper that has come down to our day, which belonged to the Black Prince, made from velvet of red and blue colors with golden lilies of France and English “leopard lions” depicted on each field of the corresponding color.
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  1. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 28 August 2017 06: 55
    +2
    Here I have always been touched by the bosses, euro stockings damn nowhere else was such an item of men's clothing! So Geyropa appeared not in our time, but much earlier !!!
    1. mar4047083
      mar4047083 28 August 2017 18: 22
      +3
      The original version of the origin of stocking, pants. But any version (even about sexual minorities) needs reinforcements from historical sources. And where is the guarantee that the LGBT community of the Middle Ages did not advocate for kilts, instead of a highway?
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 28 August 2017 18: 42
        +3
        And where is the guarantee that the LGBT community of the Middle Ages did not advocate for kilts, instead of a highway?

        if this theory, Marat, is confirmed, it turns out that LGBT people are very firmly entrenched in Scotland? drinks straight homosexual on homosexual riding and homosexual drives - so to speak, a relic of "pan-European homosexuality"! fellow here it comes from! Nikita Sergeyevich threatened them with “the mother of a certain Kuzma” - they say, we’ll crash, and not only a single representative of the minorities will remain from your nursery, but also the island on which the nursery is located.angry Although ... he, it seems, said so about England. what oh well, one island! laughing drinks
        1. mar4047083
          mar4047083 28 August 2017 19: 02
          +3
          I understand, yours, the argument. The LGBT community was able to gain a foothold only in Scotland, they were driven out of the continent. But then, according to our theory, the Moguls were also of that. And I note, you, Landsknechtov had weapons, unworthy, for fans of tailed striped laughing
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 28 August 2017 19: 46
            +3
            that is, the carriers of kilts from the West who do not like underwear, and the bare-headed horsemen of the steppes from the East clamped us, ancient Slavs, carriers of a unique set of haplogroups, into “ticks”? Now it’s clear why the ancient Slavic princes tried to isolate themselves from this Sodom by the Great Wall of China! angry The northern culture of the ancient Slavic Aryans, as it could, has struggled all its life with sodomites that are tolerant to each other, descendants of the southern destructive culture of the Holodozed penguin petopithecus of distant Antarctica soldier Damn, Marat, we are building a fairly coherent racial-historical theory. drinks it remains to squeeze the pyramids here, and the solitaire is added! good
            1. ruskih
              ruskih 28 August 2017 19: 56
              +3
              Ltd., boys, belay Yes, you are on the verge of great discoveries ....
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 28 August 2017 19: 58
                +3
                need to squeeze the pyramids .... what Kurios should be asked, maybe he will tell you .. request he’s smart uncle! In the end, it was not just that they were built! fellow
            2. mar4047083
              mar4047083 28 August 2017 20: 12
              +3
              V.N. with V.O. must be connected, we ourselves will not pull such a theory. With all this, we can be nailed for carrying the truth (or nonsense) to the masses. Are you ready to sacrifice yourself? Me not.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 28 August 2017 20: 21
                +2
                Truth naturally! soldier never confess! stop the more nonsense, the more willingly they believe in him! naturally true truth! yes So mustache and bulo! request
                You were confused to convince supporters of new historical theories? Have you been trusted a lot? here it is! for them, this is the truth. Therefore .. We have a good chance to create a pseudo-scientific theory, to make people laugh, and even to weld the dough, between things. drinks although .. you’re right, they’ll quickly ban .. recourse on the other hand, there’s nothing to ban us from; we didn’t insult anyone, we didn’t express ourselves with swear words! drinks pah pah pah wink
                1. mar4047083
                  mar4047083 28 August 2017 20: 41
                  +3
                  I am afraid. A good doctor in one of the discussions was promised to be "otmazat" from the crematorium. And where are the guarantees that they did not deceive him?
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 28 August 2017 20: 56
                    +3
                    Good Doctor just like that, without horseradish, do not gobble up. soldier With a scalpel and enema in his hands, he will brush it off to the last angry I think the deceivers will seriously regret their treachery .... laughing especially those who fall under an enema ... what
                2. mar4047083
                  mar4047083 28 August 2017 21: 03
                  +3
                  I honestly warn you. I can for both red and white. I can for the Geyevropiytsev, and you can for the Holozady. I have different documents.
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 28 August 2017 21: 17
                    +4
                    Guys, if you approach history from this point of view, then the theory that the ancient Slavic Aryans built the pyramids will receive monumental confirmation, because in ancient Egypt they did not approve of homosexuals.
                    The Book of the Dead generally said that it was a very serious sin. The myths about Seth and Gore, or rather, about their litigation, are also indicative. Wanting to slander Horus, Seth spoke of Horus' passive role in sexual intercourse. Seth, thereby, wanted to overthrow him into hell. But Seth's plans were upset because of the trick of the goddess Isis. But the most famous Egyptian homosexual couple were Khnumhotep and Nianhhnum.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Mikado
                    Mikado 28 August 2017 21: 18
                    +3
                    I have different documents

                    what a scope for true science! laughing such documents must be carefully stored. Or sell more expensive drinks
                    1. mar4047083
                      mar4047083 28 August 2017 21: 30
                      +2
                      Do not. Really do not. Half of the readers of VO had such a story. Ideally, burn everything and start from scratch.
                3. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 29 August 2017 06: 57
                  +3
                  Are you recruiting volunteers for the project? Chur, I'm the first! good By the way, my father told me, in the mid-70s, in one of the popular science publications, for several years in a row, the April issues came out with an article in which, in all seriousness, any similar theory was considered (for example, about “nascent” animals), and the people were led! Then in May a refutation was printed.
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 29 August 2017 10: 07
                    +1
                    Are you recruiting volunteers for the project? Chur, I'm the first!

                    with your sense of humor, you are accepted. Arrange with Kuryos about the pyramids. From it - the ideological base, from you - architectural and construction solutions. laughing
                  2. mar4047083
                    mar4047083 29 August 2017 17: 52
                    +1
                    See how simple it is. The "Son of Heaven" has received you. Write immediately the petition to the emperor about the assignment of the military rank of the younger samurai.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 29 August 2017 17: 59
                      0
                      military rank junior samurai

                      Ashigaru. soldier A papier-mache helmet in the form of a pancake and two swords (short and long) will be a bonus. Only wear them not fastened to the belt, but plugged for it. Let him choose the weapon (arquebus, bow, spear). We will issue salaries in terms of coca. fellow
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 30 August 2017 06: 54
                        +1
                        "I thought they would give out a bagpipe and spin as you can," and here's another day ... rice promise! Then my sense of humor faltered before the Nazi beginning .. Rabinovich had never been so close to failure!
          2. Weyland
            Weyland 28 August 2017 21: 47
            +2
            Quote: mar4047083
            You Landsknecht had a weapon, unworthy, for fans of tailed striped

            It has long been proven that “Katzbalger” means a sword for hand-to-hand fighting (which the Germans called “cat fight” - “Katzbalgen”), and not at all because of cat skins on scabbards!
            1. mar4047083
              mar4047083 28 August 2017 21: 58
              +2
              Maybe the "wood rabbits" were mined? Well, why, you, spoil everything.?
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 29 August 2017 11: 38
                +1
                Fiends, they did not like cats! angry
    2. Atenaia
      Atenaia 3 February 2018 20: 05
      0
      Stockings were used in ancient Rome. So, this fashion is of the late Roman period. And more precisely - the fashion of the Byzantine Imperial Court at that time was the epicenter of fashion trends - and western Europe - the backyards of the world, adopted everything else.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 28 August 2017 08: 13
    +4
    The novel about Alexander is probably the first chivalrous novel, a medieval treatment of the Greek History of Alexander the Great. The author of this novel, if I am not mistaken, was a certain Alberic native of Provence. A picture from a later version? .. The first, version e is dated to the 30s of the XII century.
  3. kalibr
    28 August 2017 08: 51
    +4
    Quote: burigaz2010
    So Geyropa appeared not in our time, but much earlier !!!

    In the Geyrop, people were burned at the stake for gayness. As was punished at the same time in Russia - read in the article "Anyone Has Any Forgiveness", Rodina Magazine No. 12 of 2004. There is a saying: "Every bast is a line!" So - not everyone!
    1. burigaz2010
      burigaz2010 28 August 2017 09: 16
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: burigaz2010
      So Geyropa appeared not in our time, but much earlier !!!

      In the Geyrop, people were burned at the stake for gayness. As was punished at the same time in Russia - read in the article "Anyone Has Any Forgiveness", Rodina Magazine No. 12 of 2004. There is a saying: "Every bast is a line!" So - not everyone!

      Shpakovsky offhand to you to name pieces of 10 known pi. ugh gayroptsev? Or will you find it yourself? And yet, explain to me wretched, how could she protect the armor from the rain? And where else did you see tight chain mail, how did your body “anatomize too much” about how ?! Probably the pictures of Angus McBride himself have seen enough !!!
    2. Mikado
      Mikado 28 August 2017 09: 21
      +5
      "He came to us, he came to us
      Vyacheslav Olegovich dear! " fellow laughing (here are just gypsies with bearslaughing )
      Hello! hi with the release of you, and with the first comment yes
      1. burigaz2010
        burigaz2010 28 August 2017 09: 29
        +2
        Yeah, arrived, but not very expensive !!! Obviously received a new training manual of two new arrogant historians, found out how D.Edge and D. Paddock are! D.Nikol was clearly fined with something because he didn’t even mention it!
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 28 August 2017 09: 33
          +4
          Obviously received a new training manual of two new arrogant historians, found out how D.Edge and D. Paddock are!

          training manual, excuse me, what kind of sport? laughing
        2. kalibr
          28 August 2017 11: 17
          +3
          Edge and Paddock authors are old and long-known. Mentioned in my monograph on the historiography of knightly armaments of 2005, as for David, he is rather old. Osprey is no longer published, is working on a final monograph that will draw a line under all his studies.
      2. kalibr
        28 August 2017 11: 14
        +3
        Good morning, dear Nikolai! Thank! Yes, I arrived, here, and ... from the ship to the ball. He began to put in order the "screen" and could not resist. I traveled to Poland (although not all, of course), the Czech Republic, a piece of Germany. I saw a lot of things, visited many interesting places. I made a lot of interesting photos. So I will gradually process them, write texts and publish them.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 28 August 2017 11: 24
          +3
          I'm glad that we had a rest and gained new sensations and information! good Good luck in organizing and writing, I think many (including myself) will be waiting for articles on the material of your trip. hi
        2. ruskih
          ruskih 28 August 2017 11: 27
          +3
          Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich! I will wait with interest for photos and new trips. love
          1. kalibr
            28 August 2017 11: 41
            +3
            Yeah - there are so many of them that sorting will take a week at least. I was traveling through Brest, so I also managed to walk around the fortress and see. I have long wanted to. But the delicious Polish sausages did not bring! Their export is prohibited! And there will be many materials. Behind Wroclaw, Krakow, Prague, Brno, Dresden, Meissen, not counting the various castles, both large and small.
            1. ruskih
              ruskih 28 August 2017 11: 46
              +2
              It is a pity that they did not report. I will be happy to wait for interesting stories.
  4. Serge72
    Serge72 28 August 2017 09: 04
    +16
    Yes, it’s important not only that the chain mail is not short laughing
    But what's underneath
    Multifunctional complex
  5. baudolino
    baudolino 28 August 2017 09: 27
    +3
    At all times, except for purely practical reasons, there is always a need to demonstrate one’s own status. And this need is constantly looking for new elements for this demonstration.
    But shelter became a fabric from rainfall, unless it is waterproof, it is hardly useful. Ventilated worse - more rust.
  6. Curious
    Curious 28 August 2017 10: 09
    +6
    "E. Oakeshott does not use the term surreptitiously in his works, but calls him cotta, indicating that it was not in general use until 1210, although some of its samples were known before the end of the XII century. In his opinion, its exact purpose is still unknown, and it is believed that it was brought from the Holy Land by the Crusaders, where such a thing was simply vital, so that the scorching sun would not overheat the chain mail too much, but then it turns out that the Cottas in the West were unknown and didn’t even think about it thought before 1200. But the warriors of Khri "The cows began to return from the East already in the same 1099, that is, a century before the indicated deadline. So why then not use the cotta much earlier?"

    For some reason, “militarists” historians very often forget that their “investigative” issues do not exist on their own, but in the corresponding socio-cultural environment that is characteristic of a certain time.
    So sometimes it’s useful to look at the achievements of the “pacifists”, in this case, the history of the costume.
    After all, all these items are not primarily armor. but clothes.
    The history of the evolution of the costume is interesting in itself. You can also find the answer to the questions in the paragraph above. It was just the period of transition from the costume of the early Middle Ages to the costume of the Gothic period. Social conditions were changing, the philosophy of wearing clothes was changing.
    From the XNUMXth century there is a transition from loose-falling robes, very long for women, and for men reaching the knees, to tight-fitting silhouettes, which appeared thanks to new knowledge in the skill of cutting and the appearance of buttons. Buttons (coming from a Turkic and Mongolian costume) not only changed buckles and fasteners in clothes of the upper class, they became decoration of clothes. The clothes appeared removable sleeves, wedges, undercuts, lacing, collars. The sleeves were originally cut, very narrow, they were sewn to the dress after they were dressed, and then stripped, before removing, later on, they learned to make sewn.
    Kott - cut clothes, So it appeared in a men's suit of the XIII century. instead of blot cotta - cut clothes. This name denoted not only a specific type of clothing, but also its shape and cut. later became both male and female.
    And the fact that he dresses on top of a cotta is a surcott (French: surcotte or surcote, literally “on-cotta”, “on top of a cotta”), transformed into surco.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 28 August 2017 11: 44
      +3
      So sometimes it’s useful to look at the achievements of the “pacifists”, in this case, the history of the costume. After all, all these items are not primarily armor. but clothes.

      as far as I understand, there were opposite cases when the trend in fashion grew out of shape (more precisely, it’s difficult to call it a form - military costume). As an example - Lansknechts, who gave fashion to their elaborate clothes even among the nobility.
      1. Curious
        Curious 28 August 2017 13: 32
        +6
        The clothing of the Landsknechts is a kind of social protest against those accepted from the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries. in Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, the so-called totalitarian laws (laws against luxury), which regulated the clothing of the estates. Landsknecht with his manner of dressing openly violated these standards.
        Spectacular expensive costumes of mercenaries, which for the most part came from peasants, made a contrast with the clothes of the nobility and wealthy citizens, focused on, in modern terms, a strict corporate dress code. Wearing them was perceived as a challenge, since this did not correspond to the social status of the Landsknechts. And the large penis-shaped bracelets in which the church saw the "evil eye" terrified the clergy.
        An anecdote of the XNUMXth century tells the story of a young man "who, in the heat of a lively conversation with several ladies, hooked his pants on a nail and bran branched out from there, and his pants suddenly fell off, to the dismay of their owner and the joy of the ladies.
        At first, nobility resisted these eccentricities, but Emperor Maximilian II himself took the soldier under protection. "Their life is so short and bleak that gorgeous clothes are one of their few pleasures. I'm not going to take it from them."
        This style had a certain influence on the clothing of certain classes. In different countries in different ways.
        The English nobility was also fascinated by "puffs and cuts." Henry VIII began to dress in this style after he saw the clothes of the Landsknechts hired by him; in fact, the famous portrait of Henry VIII by Hans Holbein depicts him in a camisole decorated with puffs and cuts. Other portraits of Henry depict him wearing something that looked like a skirt to his knees; he adopted this style from the German military skirts worn by some Landsknechts. The son of Henry, Edward VI and Elizabeth I also dressed in this style.
        Unlike England, wealthy burghers, patricians of large imperial cities, who stood at the top of power, created, regardless of the extreme trends of the soldier's fashion, their own clothes, which, being a conscious departure from the overly refined elegance of court circles of the XNUMXth century, demonstrated mainly solidity, wealth, magnificence of bright colors, masculine strength and joy of life.
        In a word - the topic is vast, you can write a cycle.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 28 August 2017 13: 44
          +3
          In a word - the topic is vast, you can write a cycle.

          as I understand it, I already read half of the article .... read it? wink where are the pictures? laughing
          1. Curious
            Curious 28 August 2017 14: 12
            +4
            Yes you! What a half. This is a really huge topic. I'm just not an expert in uniformology and clothing history, there are a lot of nuances.

            Five Landsknechts. Artist: Zibald Beham (Sebald Beham, 1500 - 1550). Engraver: Daniel Hopfer. Creation time: 1520 - 1536 Technique: etching. Sheet dimensions: 38,8 × 22,4 cm. British Museum.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 28 August 2017 14: 14
              +1
              You are absolutely right about a good cycle. There would be a desire for someone to write it .. what
              1. kalibr
                28 August 2017 18: 18
                +1
                This is a very complex topic, Nikolai. For example, I have an Osprey edition about Landsknecht. But ... it’s written somehow very hard. Although in English. That is, there is more work than a head. It’s easier to take and translate what ... is written simply and clearly. Alas, your own shirt is closer to the body.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 28 August 2017 18: 24
                  +1
                  the ratio of "cost-output" has not been canceled. Everything is correct, Vyacheslav Olegovich. hi I tortured Kingisepp for a month and a half, twice a hundred km from St. Petersburg I went to take pictures. But for me this is entertainment!
                  Sooner or later, someone will write an article on them that goes beyond Wikipedia soldier
            2. Curious
              Curious 28 August 2017 14: 15
              +4
              By the way, the Landsknechts had worthy rivals both on the battlefield and in the clothing field - Swiss mercenaries.

              Three Swiss mercenaries. Posted by Erhard Schön (c. 1491 - 1542). Engraver: Daniel Hopfer (Daniel Hopfer, 1471 - 1536). Creation time: 1520 - 1536 Technique: woodcut. Sheet dimensions: 20,1 × 28,5 cm. British Museum
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 28 August 2017 14: 35
                +1
                By the way, the Landsknechts had worthy rivals both on the battlefield

                so worthy that they preferred not to take each other prisoner. Plus, some types of weapons that came from Landsknechts - armor 3/4 and flamberg.
                1. Curious
                  Curious 28 August 2017 14: 57
                  +3
                  I would not say that Flamberg went from Landsknechts and Swiss. He contributed to their distribution, but they did not invent it.
                  Flamberg is the reaction of gunsmiths to improving the protective properties of knightly armor. A kind of hybrid of the eastern saber curve and the European straight sword.
                  It was very expensive, so I did not meet often.
                  By the way, flambergs (like crossbows) were cursed by the Catholic Church as inhumane weapons. Some commanders of those years sentenced captive owners of flambergs to death. In one instruction for the soldiers it was stated that "the wearer of the blade, a wave similar (flamberg), should be put to death without trial."
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 28 August 2017 15: 01
                    +2
                    In one instruction for the soldiers it was stated that "the wearer of the blade, a wave similar (flamberg), should be put to death without trial."

                    yes, read it. How much time has passed, but nothing changes - snipers and flamethrowers and now prefer not to take prisoners. request
                2. kalibr
                  28 August 2017 15: 00
                  +2
                  There will be photos of you flumbergs, will be. This one is so-so ...
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 28 August 2017 15: 04
                    +1
                    Yes, we understand. You know, your photos are preferable and even a little more interesting to embed. Just do not always have the opportunity to make them. And you, go, such an opportunity has been lately. hi will wait!
                    1. kalibr
                      28 August 2017 18: 14
                      +1
                      Yeah, in the Green Arches in Dresden there’s nothing else. I stayed there for more than an hour, filmed this way and that. Still to come.
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 28 August 2017 18: 17
                        +1
                        Was the lighting natural? I'm not a professional, now I’ve reviewed my photos, even a little ashamed feel we have a knightly exhibition in ArtMuseum, but I didn’t manage to remove it normally. There are lamps right in the windows with exhibits .. If you just work around with the settings - maybe that’s what happens request
                      2. Curious
                        Curious 28 August 2017 21: 06
                        +4

                        And I was tortured to guess who didn’t fit into the frame. And now I realized that it’s you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
                  2. Curious
                    Curious 28 August 2017 15: 13
                    +2
                    And some comrades do not need to travel far.

                    Flamberg in combination with a wheeled pistol, France, 1575-1585
                    State Hermitage Museum.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 28 August 2017 15: 21
                      +1
                      In my cobblestone garden? wink persuaded, in the fall I will go to Art. Museum, take a picture. Only there the lighting is not very request I haven’t been to the Hermitage for a long time - since 2010 .. what
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 28 August 2017 18: 13
                      +2
                      Victor Nikolaevich! Well, do not be so about St. Petersburg! There is no this prodigy (well, the prodigy, you must admit) in the main exposition of the Hermitage! (I know this is a conspiracy of the Piotrovsky masojidons: not to show the proto-Aryan heritage to the goyim)
                      I don’t even know what kind of emoticon to put: either “rzhunimaga”, or “crying”.
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 28 August 2017 18: 18
                        +1
                        do not show proto-Aryan heritage

                        with haplogroup fragments embedded in it laughing
                      2. Curious
                        Curious 28 August 2017 19: 12
                        +2
                        There is an inventory number. Vyacheslav Olegovich will write an official letter that he is writing a monograph on the influence of the curvature of the flamberge on the percentage of deaths. Really do not show?
  7. kalibr
    28 August 2017 11: 10
    +1
    Quote: burigaz2010
    And yet, explain to me wretched, how could she protect the armor from the rain? - I answer, wretched. Do not know how! This and Ewart Oakeshott did not know, but in the text there is a rhyme that they defended. Is not it?
    And where else did you see tight chain mail, how did your body “anatomize too much” about how ?! How did they anatomize? Mine covered me like a glove. And again, before your eyes you have a bunch of effigies. Open them wider ... Again, probably the pictures of Angus McBride himself have seen enough !!!
    McBride’s pictures are made on the basis of effigy and are very accurate. Just read carefully and just watch.
    1. burigaz2010
      burigaz2010 28 August 2017 13: 04
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: burigaz2010
      And yet, explain to me wretched, how could she protect the armor from the rain? - I answer, wretched. Do not know how! This and Ewart Oakeshott did not know, but in the text there is a rhyme that they defended. Is not it?
      And where else did you see tight chain mail, how did your body “anatomize too much” about how ?! How did they anatomize? Mine covered me like a glove. And again, before your eyes you have a bunch of effigies. Open them wider ... Again, probably the pictures of Angus McBride himself have seen enough !!!
      McBride’s pictures are made on the basis of effigy and are very accurate. Just read carefully and just watch.

      Mr. Shpakovsky you don’t seem to know how chain mail was worn at all, close-fitting only if it’s a full dress. Try wearing 12 kilos on your shoulders for at least a couple of hours! When they wore chain mail, they specially pulled them out from under the belts and made a kind of lap on him in order to unload their shoulders even a little! Goblin has a video though there is about armor, but the idea itself is shown correctly!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 August 2017 16: 12
        +3
        Gosspidya !!! Tavarisch, take the trouble to first learn the "Russian language" before sprinkling anything !!! In the Russian language they “dress” someone, but they put on themselves!
        1. ruskih
          ruskih 28 August 2017 16: 29
          +3
          Yes, yes, Anton, you are right. One has only to remember the whole man wink
          Dress Hope
          Put on clothes.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 28 August 2017 16: 49
            +2
            not very smart joke on the topic of clothing:
            Petka comes to Vasily Ivanovich.
            P - Vasily Ivanovich, do you have stockings?
            Q - And you, Petka, why?
            P - Yes, I want to rob the cashier.
            In - Kassu .... (dreamily) ... in stockings .... Beautiful!
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 August 2017 17: 54
            +2
            Thank you Elena! But about men, is this to whom?
            1. ruskih
              ruskih 28 August 2017 17: 56
              +1
              Definitely not for you, Anton, winked
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 29 August 2017 07: 53
                +2
                This is good, because I’m already worried, I suddenly made 4 mistakes in the word “yet” laughing love
        2. burigaz2010
          burigaz2010 28 August 2017 20: 59
          +1
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Gosspidya !!! Tavarisch, take the trouble to first learn the "Russian language" before sprinkling anything !!! In the Russian language they “dress” someone, but they put on themselves!

          Hear a connoisseur of the Russian language, there is something to say on the topic or there’s nothing to dig into more? I also want to note that in Russian there are no words "gossypdyya" and "tavarisch" so please deign to translate your nonsense !!!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 29 August 2017 04: 56
            +2
            Come on! Seriously, no? And people understood correctly, and also understood that you do not like it when you are being harassed by your own methods.
            And on the topic, I spoke out.
    2. burigaz2010
      burigaz2010 28 August 2017 14: 17
      +1
      Shpakovsky, by the way, you did not answer the question how did you protect your armor from the weather? And about the combat pido ... hmm hmm, didn’t you notice the gay players too?
      1. kalibr
        28 August 2017 15: 04
        +2
        There is a good saying that one ... a bad word that does not go to VO - can ask more questions than 100 wise men answer .. In my opinion this is just the case. By the way, have you already read an article in the Homeland about fornication or not?
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 August 2017 18: 25
        +1
        Yes, it was very easy to protect! Soaked in pork fat and protected! From that, and the stake stands on more ancient miniatures and effigies.
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 28 August 2017 16: 02
      +3
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, why (what kind of ..... demon) do you even communicate with this individual, if he tries to humiliate you, after every mention of McBride? What did McBride do to him? As for me - the greatest artist-reconstructor of our time (though there are questions, sometimes).
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 28 August 2017 16: 44
        +2
        after every mention of mcbride? What did McBride do to him? As for me - the greatest artist-reconstructor of our time (though there are questions, sometimes).

        Well, why? Anton, Mikhail raised a great topic, an article about which moderators - "fighting homosexuals" will not let go. The theme begins already with the Ancient World, one of the first divisions of homosexual special forces was the Holy Squad of 300 homosexual hoplites from the ancient Thebes (apparently, the number 300 for the Greeks was sacred), which bent all visible branches of the army (except the fleet) in the visible Greek expanses, including the most brutal Spartans. Captured, of course, they should not give up either. laughing The topic is worthy of a separate study, only .. is it necessary? laughing drinks well, it’s not to understand that in medieval Europe, far from homosexuals wore stockings, possibly even with a belt. laughing beauty, of course, is not enough, modern girls go more. wink drinks
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 August 2017 17: 41
          +4
          They won’t let it go, but damn it! Despite our brutal heterosexuality with us, and others like us. As for the character, well, it happens, children's complexes, sexual unrealization, ... (church poppies - phallic symbol, "McDonald's" - like an ahedron symbol) ... Evil me, yes? I do not like militant imbeciles. Tarpeian rock cries over them.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 28 August 2017 18: 03
            +1
            well, why .. some time ago we had a character like that in our city - everything that you don’t see is homosexual everywhere ... I won’t give my name (and you don’t call either) wink in general, became famous in the field of the fight against homosexuality. No, it's all right! only too odious somehow request although .. one hell is correct. yes
            1. Curious
              Curious 28 August 2017 18: 55
              +2
              In general, you always have some kind of events with these guys. All the time they are pressed by everyone who can, from politicians of the all-Russian and local caliber to the small-medium and well-organized criminal contingent. Probably nowhere ... pi ... gay, as in the cultural capital of Russia.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 28 August 2017 19: 14
                +1
                In general, you always have some kind of events with these guys.

                maybe they crawl in the wrong direction? what's good in gay parades? what good is it in promoting all of this? negative
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 August 2017 20: 59
                +1
                Maybe in this regard we are called the cultural capital?
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 August 2017 21: 07
                +1
                Viktor Nikolaevich, well, if they are oppressing in St. Petersburg, then genocide is generally beyond the Urals!
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 28 August 2017 21: 35
              +1
              In our city there are five people each for the district, and two from the Buckle, two from the Birdhouse, and one from the local endemic
        2. kalibr
          28 August 2017 18: 09
          +2
          There is a medieval miniature and not one - I don’t remember, it seems I even gave one depicting the burning of a knight and his squire, convicted of a love affair (14th century). In Holland, ALL men were polled for signs of prediction, and if there were any, then ... they sent them to the fire. We found them at one of the staffers (it's like the president!) And executed him ... with a sword!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 August 2017 20: 12
            +1
            Oppa! With a sword - this is credited, why?
            1. kalibr
              28 August 2017 21: 52
              +1
              I don’t remember exactly. You better read this article yourself. There are a lot of ... funny!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 29 August 2017 04: 44
                +1
                Link please!
                1. kalibr
                  29 August 2017 16: 08
                  0
                  Homeland 12 issue 2004
        3. burigaz2010
          burigaz2010 29 August 2017 05: 54
          +2
          [/ quote] [quote = Mikado]
          after every mention of mcbride? What did McBride do to him? As for me - the greatest artist-reconstructor of our time (though there are questions, sometimes).

          Well, why? Anton, Mikhail raised a great topic, an article about which moderators - "fighting homosexuals" will not let go. The theme begins already with the Ancient World, one of the first divisions of homosexual special forces was the Holy Squad of 300 homosexual hoplites from the ancient Thebes (apparently, the number 300 for the Greeks was sacred), which bent all visible branches of the army (except the fleet) in the visible Greek expanses, including the most brutal Spartans. Captured, of course, they should not give up either. laughing The topic is worthy of a separate study, only .. is it necessary? laughing drinks well, it’s not to understand that in medieval Europe, far from homosexuals wore stockings, possibly even with a belt. laughing beauty, of course, is not enough, modern girls go more. wink drinks

          Comrade Mikado, as I understand it, you did not understand my sarcasm? wink
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 29 August 2017 11: 07
            +1
            Michael, I do not understand your fetish with stockings drinks and some epithets and definitions that you assign to other users. But .. "to each his own"! wink
      2. kalibr
        28 August 2017 18: 01
        +3
        Teacher’s habit, you know. I'm used to explaining everything to students to the point. And he cannot humiliate me. Well, except for, say, opponents of the Russian Humanitarian Science Foundation. And then, suddenly someone is seduced by an article in their homeland. To my undergraduate students studying PR, I always say that it is necessary to work with a different contingent, that a person who is drunk at the fifth point, yelling while sitting on it in the middle of a puddle, is still a citizen of the Russian Federation and can elect and be published. And how will I teach them this, and not do it myself?
        As for this individual, then MacBride has nothing to do with it. He feels bad because he is such a wonderful citizen of the Russian Federation, and some Englishmen there, and the same McBride (the late one, the truth), live much better and can not compare with them, that's all. Hence the “Geyropa” (although I will not eat it, I’ll bite it) and other troubles. Very simple and clear. Scolding others, you rise yourself. Simple and clear.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 August 2017 20: 47
          +2
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, here I perfectly understand you. There is such a term: "professional deformation." But, you are not in the audience of Alma Mater. You can send it.
          1. kalibr
            28 August 2017 21: 50
            +2
            I sent once. And earned a warning. Now I do not use anything cooler than the word “fifth point”.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 29 August 2017 11: 12
              +2
              I sent once. And earned a warning.

              Some have set a record for us, and everyone hopes to beat it. Griboedov's comedy, damn it. "The mind is hindering life," don’t feed bread with bacon, give hooray to the patriots and supporters of the alternative story to explain reasonable things fellow laughing
  8. Operator
    Operator 28 August 2017 14: 00
    +1
    Chain mail was a poor protective structure compared to armor - the weight of chain mail fell on the fighter’s shoulders and exhausted him even before the battle began.

    The plates, when correctly executed, were an exoskeleton, the weight of which was transferred to steel shoes. A fighter in such armor gained an advantage over a fighter in lighter and more flexible chain mail.

    This was the main reason for replacing chain mail with armor.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 28 August 2017 14: 06
      +2
      armor, it seems to me, gave the best protection against piercing.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 August 2017 16: 33
        +2
        Nikolay, in the discussion with this opponent, well, since we are talking about an exoskeleton, you can reach the "Autobots" and "Decepticons". (See "Marvel")
  9. kalibr
    28 August 2017 15: 05
    +3
    Quote: burigaz2010
    close-fitting only if the full dress.

    Look at the effigy! Why am I putting their photo?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 28 August 2017 18: 53
      +4
      Your opponent never buried loved ones, much less put monuments to them.
      1. burigaz2010
        burigaz2010 29 August 2017 06: 01
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Your opponent never buried loved ones, much less put monuments to them.

        Listen to a bad person, unfortunately I’ve already buried relatives, I’m not going to switch to personal, unlike you! Yes, when you bury a loved one and put a monument, sign off !!!! fellow
  10. kalibr
    28 August 2017 15: 08
    +3
    Quote: burigaz2010
    Try wearing 12 kilos on your shoulders for at least a couple of hours!

    Worn freely. I understood why the knights had a proud posture.
    1. burigaz2010
      burigaz2010 28 August 2017 15: 36
      +1
      [/ Quote]
      Quote: kalibr
      [quote = burigaz2010] Try 12 kilos on your shoulders for at least a couple of hours!

      Worn freely. I understood why the knights had a proud posture.

      For stupid Shpakovsky, do not just wear it, but try to run to jump and chop with a sword!
      1. burigaz2010
        burigaz2010 28 August 2017 15: 37
        +1
        I forgot to add, well, at least an hour !!! Oh please!
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 28 August 2017 16: 26
      +2
      Bravo!!! I just wanted to say: "Shpakovsky wore something, but you didn’t even try on the bronika!"
      And what, Vyacheslav Olegovich, when worn for a long time, really pulls the "Grand Fleet" - "five points" to the posture?
      1. kalibr
        28 August 2017 17: 54
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        And what, Vyacheslav Olegovich, when worn for a long time, really pulls the "Grand Fleet" - "five points" to the posture?

        Good question. It was so that my acquaintance master made chain mail on the model found in Penza near us. Just 12 kg. Up to the knees. Riveted, very spectacular. He put it on and walked in it for four hours. sat down, got up, in a word did everything that was needed. Very soon, my back somehow unbent. That is, our L-shaped posture in profile for chain mail is not suitable, it puts great pressure on the shoulders. But as soon as I straightened up, the pressure somehow weakened. It can be seen somehow the spinal column worked. Here I am not an expert. However, "the nose immediately lifted up!". Where were the bruises after wearing? Surprisingly: on the knees (a little higher). That is, the hem beat on the legs and through the pants filled blue stripes. That's why the knights needed more quilted knee pads. I also wore armor, and at first I could not step a step from them, but ... then I could. The truth was enough for me for only half an hour. The restraint in them is different, not the same as in chain mail. And it was bad that the back began to itch right away. How to scratch? Here is such an experience.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 28 August 2017 18: 28
          +4
          And it was bad that the back began to itch right away.

          EMNIP, in some knightly order it was fashionable to wear a hair shirt under the armor. It seems they were even more crap than you! laughing
        2. Curious
          Curious 28 August 2017 18: 47
          +3
          "And it was bad that the back began to itch right away."
          And in my hospital, under a cast, my foot began to itch. You could take off the armor. And they put me on plaster for more than three months. Though climb the wall. A week was tormented. Then it passed.
          1. burigaz2010
            burigaz2010 29 August 2017 08: 17
            +3
            Quote: Curious
            "And it was bad that the back began to itch right away."
            And in my hospital, under a cast, my foot began to itch. You could take off the armor. And they put me on plaster for more than three months. Though climb the wall. A week was tormented. Then it passed.

            It was also lying around for 4 months, as I recall, it takes trembling !! The most important thing is that you can’t even go to the toilet !!!
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 August 2017 19: 31
          +3
          Excuse me, but at that moment you did not think about fleas, lice, and the general asepticism of medieval reality? Have you thought? Then, this is a matter of psychology. They didn’t think of psychiatry. They didn’t think at all - Ses’s problem.
  11. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 28 August 2017 19: 12
    +3
    Mikado,
    Oh yoyo! Even the Chronicles of Narnia are silent about this!
  12. Curious
    Curious 28 August 2017 20: 59
    +1
    Mikado,
    What is your camera?
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 28 August 2017 21: 22
      +3
      ordinary camera without frills. It’s just that I didn’t take so many pictures in life.
      1. Curious
        Curious 28 August 2017 22: 37
        +2
        An ordinary camera without frills is, for example, a Nikon 3200 or 5200 with a whale lens.
  13. Prutkov
    Prutkov 28 August 2017 21: 18
    +2
    I think that with the advent of Surko it was all more prosaic. If you think about how complicated and long the process of making chain mail is, you can imagine how expensive these armors were. So, to part with them, you need good reasons, most often death, natural or in battle. And then chain mail passed to the next owner, very often in not the best form. Repairing chain mail was also worth the money that not everyone had. In general, there was a need to cover holes or latches in chain mail. And for this, the mantle on top of the armor was quite suitable.
  14. Prutkov
    Prutkov 28 August 2017 21: 22
    +1
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I have a question for you about the ethegy of the knight Richard de Montfort. For the first time I see a knight whose legs are crossed and resting not on any animal, but on an object with the image of a crescent. What would that mean?
    1. kalibr
      28 August 2017 21: 47
      +2
      I do not know for sure. Usually a crescent moon in heraldry denoted one of the youngest sons. But I won’t say exactly what kind of account. There is a book on Slater heraldry. If it is in Russian, you can find it yourself there. I have no other explanation. In England there was a society of lovers of effigy. And there were questions from VO readers about them. And I sent them to them, but received no response. Most likely it no longer exists.
      1. Curious
        Curious 28 August 2017 22: 14
        +3
        There is one nuance. Rather, two. The first. Crossed legs usually indicated that the knight participated in the crusade.
        The church has been known since the XNUMXth century. The sights of the church are three effigies, one of them being considered. However, it is believed that the effigies are fake, established in the XNUMXth century to confirm fabricated evidence of the origin of the Wellsborn family from Simon de Montfort. Such a detective.
        Second. St Michael's Church, Hughenden Valley, Buckinghamshire houses the family tomb of 1st Earl of Beaconsfield, known to us as Benjamin Disraeli, Prime Minister of Great Britain.
  15. Mikado
    Mikado 30 August 2017 10: 13
    0
    3x3zsave,
    "I thought they would give out a bagpipe and spin as you can," and here's another day ... rice promise! Then my sense of humor faltered before the beginning .. Rabinovich had never been so close to failure!

    Yes, I was thinking, you can save on a helmet and swords. what you have your own helmet, with a shock absorber, not some Japanese consumer goods; and in front of construction tools - a puncher, an ax and, especially, a circular saw, samurai swords and other gadgets are children's toys. Needless to save, the Emperor lacks the tenth helicopter with rhinestones soldier (about a helicopter - a joke drinks ) We will issue a lump-sum allowance with rice - for the form, thin steamed in Krasnodar. fellow This is a common practice, I also received a lost form in due time, but not with rice. laughing