Stalinist ZIS-2 in Syria

As the news portal "Messenger of Mordovia", In the course of fighting in the Damascus area, government forces are actively using 57-mm gun ZIS-2.

Previously, it was occasionally observed in various parts of the front. For example, a year ago, the Syrian military created and applied a self-propelled gun, equipped with this tool, on the chassis of the GAZ-3308 "Sadko" all-terrain vehicle.

ZIS-2 is characterized by high accuracy and mobility. According to military experts, the Syrian army has a significant arsenal of ammunition for these guns.

ZIS-2 was adopted by the Soviet army in early 1941 under the name "57-mm anti-tank gun of the 1941 model." Mass production of ZIS-2 began on June 1, 1941, and it was suspended on December 1 of the same year. With the advent of the Germans tanks “Panther” and “Tiger” urgently needed powerful anti-tank missiles. On June 15, the 43rd year, the ZIS-2 cannon was again adopted, however, now under the name "57-mm anti-tank gun of the 1943 model." A few weeks later, the cannon began to enter the troops.

Comments

[Spartanez300]

The 57-mm anti-tank gun of the 1941 model ZIS-2 is the Soviet anti-tank gun of the Great Patriotic War period. This gun, developed under the direct supervision of V. G. Grabin, in 1940, was, at the time of mass production, the most powerful anti-tank gun in the world - so powerful that in 1941 the gun had no worthy goals, which led to the removal its production ("due to excessive armor penetration" - quote), in favor of cheaper and more advanced guns. However, with the advent in 1942 of new heavily armored German Tiger tanks, gun production was resumed.

[Maz]

I would even say that more than the Stalinist - Soviet cannon

[igordok]

Monument in 76 DShD

[Altona]

Stalin spoke well of the guns of Grabin; Grabin himself received several Stalin prizes during the war years. The captured Hrabin guns arrived in parts of Rommel in Africa, with them he drove British tanks.

[seregatara1969]

good and worthy - no one would remember a bad one

[Cxnumx]

honestly, it was just fun when I read about the removal of this gun from production "due to excessive armor penetration". how disc can have "over penetration"? this is not a projectile that must penetrate the armor and only then tear inside. But how many of our problems were with the 45th, with which we had to fight with tanks" point blank. "

[maxbaxg61]

The shortsightedness of the command says it all. And if the T-34 weren’t all sure, but a couple of thousand were armed with a 57mm gun, you would see that a very good self-propelled gun would come out against the tanks. But those with 57mm guns also seemed to drink a lot of blood to the Nazis

[avt]

Quote: maxbaxg61

.And if the T-34 wasn’t all of course, but a couple of thousand were armed with a 57mm cannon, then you would look a very good self-propelled gun would come out against the tanks.

It did not come out of the T-34 tank destroyer with 57 mm. This is a medical fact. The gun is of course excellent and until 1944 it was clearly not enough, but there were problems with the manufacture and, well, this is a common disease, the quality of the firing range. The fact that in a fire order it was put into series after familiarizing ourselves with Tiger was a necessary measure. We did what we could quickly. Now ask yourself: What calibers went into the artillery of the PT after? Why didn’t you do the awl more?

[A1845]

Quote: avt

Did not get out of the T-34 tank destroyer with 57 mm

it's a pity! with the dimensions of the t-34 tower, what you need!

[avt]

Quote: A1845

it's a pity!

Not once! What the fighting showed to themselves - a high-explosive projectile wasn’t normal! It’s beautiful to play in the Worldtacks of Tanks, but in practice you’ll get a hell of a pause and you’ll not

Quote: A1845

with the dimensions of the t-34 tower, what you need!

Yes, learn the materiel! The fact that the tower is small was immediately understood and worked out taking into account familiarization with the “Three Cushion” at 76mm, and even Christie wanted to change the torsion bars instead of the springs. BUT! The war was persecuted as it is. And 85 mm Ginzburg planned before the war another T-29

[A1845]

Quote: avt

Yes, learn the materiel

similarly!

Quote: avt

The fact that the tower is small, we realized right away

this makes me happy

Quote: avt

drove what is

byva-a-at ..

[Alf]

Quote: maxbaxg61

The shortsightedness of the command of this says it all. And if the T-34 wasn’t everything, of course, but a couple of thousand were armed with a 57mm gun, then you would see a very good self-propelled gun would come out against tanks.

Just the foresight of our command is clearly visible. The tank was primarily considered the “infantry shield” and the caliber of the guns and the tank’s ammunition were calculated on the basis of this requirement.
OF the action of the 57-mm guns was very small. Here is the layout on the BC of our tanks. HE shells prevail.

[A1845]

Quote: K0

how can a disc have “over penetration”?

BR-271SP disc is only one of the options, there were also a charge that exploded already outside the tank
that's where the excess armor penetration

[Cxnumx]

and in the end, in order to hit the enemy’s tank from 45, ours let him go a couple of hundred meters, where the enemy could even put them out of machine guns without even spending shells — a great solution. Above, the comrades argue about the 57th in the T-34 tower, but the main place where they were needed was the infantry. and even if a shell with a charge flashed through the tank through, it at least carried everything in its path. and if he got into the engine, or a gun or ammunition - disabled them, i.e. practically disabled the tank. I can not understand the logic of "excess" power. Well, he flew past the crew members, and even fragments of armor did not hit them (lo and behold), but to disable a tank is quite possible. and our "commanders" probably tested them on bt-7, but what the enemy would have was an analogue of armor kv - it wasn’t enough to figure out brains.

[A1845]

Quote: K0

I can not understand the logic of "excess" power.

the logic is that you have to pay dearly for it
coulters driven into the ground, heavy tractors instead of a friendly one “piled on”, a muzzle brake raising a dust fountain, etc ...

[Cxnumx]

Quote: A1845

coulters driven into the ground, heavy tractors instead of a friendly one “piled on”, a muzzle brake raising a dust fountain, etc ...

"piled on, fire - didn’t penetrate. comrade ... 200 meters to the enemy’s tank! they noticed us." a bunch of corpses - the tank goes on. cheap and cheerful. and what? there will probably be a hero who crawls closer and throws a Molotov cocktail or grenades successfully.
but there were no problems with "piled on", unmasking, production (which could be debugged to war). everything is logical.

[LeonidL]

Implicitly at the discontinuation of this gun, the “Marshal” Kulik burnt out, however, on katyushas, ​​too. The gun is excellent, they tried to put it on a light armored tractor "Komsomolets" to create anti-tank self-propelled guns, several of these self-propelled guns fought the 41st near Moscow.

[Lganhi]

The ZIS-2 had a barrel length of 73 caliber, in 1941 the production of trunks of such a length was very problematic, as Grabin recalled, a lot of trunks went into marriage, so the barrel was very, very expensive. In 1941, the Germans did not have heavy tanks, the T-4 and Shtug-3 had frontal armor of 50 mm, which was relatively easy to penetrate with a 76 mm USV and ZIS-3 shell, and the side armor was 30 mm, which was also relatively easy to penetrate 45 mm shell at a distance of less than 500 m. Therefore, the right decision was made to curtail the production of 57 mm guns, and instead produce much cheaper ZIS-3 and 53-K.

As can be seen from the table, in total during the war years about 24 thousand ZIS-3s were sent to the PTA, about 45 thousand, quite comparable figures, were made to the 53-mm 42-K and M-31 cannons. The Soviet leadership was aware of the insufficient power of the 45-mm guns, and most of the 76-mm guns were sent to the PTA. It is better to have 5 45-mm guns and 5 76-mm guns than one 57-mm gun.

[Alf]

Quote: Lgankhi

the production of trunks of such a length was very problematic, as Grabin recalled, a lot of trunks went into marriage, so the trunk was very, very expensive.

Shirokorad cites a little-known fact that in the manufacture of a German 88-mm gun with a barrel length of 71 caliber, the reject percentage was 80 (!)%, I.e. out of 5 blanks, only ONE barrel was obtained. But from this, the accusers of Soviet production for some reason do not raise a cry.

[andrewkor]

Quote: avt

Quote: A1845

it's a pity!

Not once! What the fighting showed to themselves - a high-explosive projectile wasn’t normal! It’s beautiful to play in the Worldtacks of Tanks, but in practice you’ll get a hell of a pause and you’ll not

Quote: A1845

with the dimensions of the t-34 tower, what you need!

Yes, learn the materiel! The fact that the tower is small was immediately understood and worked out taking into account familiarization with the “Three Cushion” at 76mm, and even Christie wanted to change the torsion bars instead of the springs. BUT! The war was persecuted as it is. And 85 mm Ginzburg planned before the war another T-29

VG Grabin "Weapon of Victory" - "V1940 85 mm gun fits perfectly into the tower T28 and KV."

[Alf]

By the way, the ZIS-2 was characterized by high accuracy of firing, which is a consequence of the high velocity of the projectile. There are relatively few tanks in Syria, but against such an armored personnel carrier, infantry fighting vehicle, and other armored bushes, such a weapon is perfectly suitable.

[Badinger]

And then, even in the war, there were undercover games of different artillery design bureaus. Grabinskaya gun ahead of time, but to remove the argument from the pr-va "due to excessive armor penetration" then it was quite enough. Grabin, by the way, doesn’t personally blame anyone in the book.

[Old warrior]

Father recalls that right after the war, somewhere near Istra, he saw two German tanks standing next to them, pierced by one shell. Apparently this was the work of the ZIS-2.