"The Kurganets 25 project was unsuccessful"

Informational portal of the city of Kurgan "Kurgan and Kurgans" published material in which it is told about problems of Kurgan machine-building plant. This is the plant that is engaged in the release of military equipment, including the newest tracked platform for an infantry fighting vehicle - the Kurganets-25. Recall that the BMP on the basis of "Kurganets-25" was demonstrated at parades in honor of the anniversary of the Victory 9 in May in the Russian capital.

The material contains a statement by the former deputy chief engineer of the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant, Danil Relin. According to him, the project of the tracked platform, which was discussed above, is unsuccessful.

From the statement of the production worker:

The project "Kurganets-25" turned out to be unsuccessful, a new machine is needed, which means that the terms of reference for its development. But who should make it is not clear.

At the same time, it isn’t noted what exactly makes Kurganets-25 an unsuccessful project. Or who...

The working group agreed that it was necessary to immediately send an appeal to the cabinet of ministers of the Russian Federation in order to clarify the situation with the platform for the BMP. It was noted that it is necessary to determine whether the enterprise will be involved in the production of a completely new, “breakthrough” model, or will concentrate on upgrading the existing platform.

Against this background, there are obvious problems with the Kurganmashzavod itself, which actually turned out to be bankrupt. The members of the working group sent an appeal to the Kurgan Oblast Duma with a request to take the situation under control and not to give the negative processes related to the enterprise aggravate.

Comments

[garx]

Import substitution did not fail, that’s the reason for the failure!

[K-50]

Quote: garx

Import substitution did not fail, that’s the reason for the failure!

No, perhaps. I think this is from the same opera, when the release of Armata T-14 began, Alfa Bank began the bankruptcy procedure of Uralvagonzavod.
I would like the competent authorities to take a closer look at the situation and determine who is preventing the production of breakthrough defense products. Well and accordingly punished !!

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: K-50

Alfa Bank began bankruptcy proceedings of Uralvagonzavod

In the light of the current "sanitation policy" of the Central Bank, this is not excluded. At the last large bank "Ugra" an incomprehensible hitch came out. Conflicting news slipped through the press. But, if the same bank (Alpha, VTB, etc.) lends to defense enterprises, and there is no proceeds from the sale of products, then what remains for the bank to do?
And there’s an old way - to “scroll” the amount allocated to the defense industry on the side. And the final settlement should be kept under the promises of "paying off debts tomorrow."
Where a lot of money is spinning, there is always a trace of crime.

[hrych]

Quote: stalkerwalker

Where a lot of money is spinning, there is always a trace of crime.

Something went far. To start

statement of the former deputy chief engineer of the Kurgan machine-building plant Danil Relin

Those. the offended responsible employee, who was thrown out and apparently for the cause, obviously for sabotage of Kurgan, judging by his last name, he is one of these, well, cosmopolitans ... The Kurgan and Kurgan information portal of the city is like ..., well, not the Independent , so gossip and rumors of the general level, the dismissed offender went there and pushed to pour mud, the leadership who had expelled him with a bang. Typically, engineers are not public, they have a special mentality and temperament, and this is a stupid talker who, apparently, was just a little dumb

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: hrych

Something went far. To start

I did not even try to consider the technical side of the issue. There is no source data for this..
But the question of financing the state defense order is very specific. The order is issued by the MO, the government gives money, but what happens next - who exactly (and how) starts the process of transferring funds to the accounts of suppliers, contractors and the parent company - there is a story for a thorough investigation.

[hrych]

Of course, the loot must be controlled, however, as we know Kurganets is already embodied in metal, this is not an incomprehensible distant project, all this libel is built on the dismissed deputy not even the general, but the chief engineer, who essentially could not say anything. The same deputies, there are 5 people there, if not more, there is production, there is supply, there are personnel, transport, etc. What kind of deputy is there, maybe in the bath-laundry line

[Nick]

Quote: stalkerwalker

But the question of financing the state defense order is very specific. The order is issued by the MO, the government gives money, but what happens next - who exactly (and how) starts the process of transferring funds to the accounts of suppliers, contractors and the parent company - there is a story for a thorough investigation.

Duck all funds for the defense go through a special shield, from there it is now impossible to slam. Not Serdyukov’s times.

[Solomon Kane]

It seems that a few "especially responsible employees" will change VIP huts to Lefortovo "odnushki" and things will go ......

[Alex 2016]

Totally agree with you. Everything is inhibited or destroyed intentionally. That's where you really need to clean and eliminate pests, as in the glorious 30s of the last century, without fanaticism. After a thorough check.

[Lavrenti Pavlovich]

It turns out that Stalin was right in planting and shooting pests. And then repressions, repressions, they didn’t plant for anything — our democrats whined on all TV channels.

[Oleg Kalugin]

[quote = K-50] [quote = garx]
I would like the competent authorities to take a closer look at the situation and determine who is preventing the production of breakthrough defense products. Well and accordingly punished !! [/ Quote]

You yourself are not funny?

[Ilya_Nsk]

Breakthroughs? Type BMP-4 - rubbish, and this is a breakthrough !! And where is the money for developing the BMP-3/4 - in the sand !? It seems to me that they completely swung there in this military-industrial complex, almost every year the news .. Super submarines 941 sawed off half of what has been released before them, and so forth .. These are “Shells”, “Kurgan”, “Lynx” -tigers ".. The guns were generally flooded .. Maybe this bacchanalia tries when there is nothing for pensioners to eat?

[Albert1988]

Quote: Ilya_Nsk

In general, the assault rifles trampled on the rampart .. Maybe this bacchanalia tries when there is nothing for pensioners to eat?

But nothing, that "all this bacchanalia" - there are jobs and salaries from which taxes go, including retirement ... Have you ever tried to build such a simple logical chain? Let’s we not build icebreakers, we’ll turn off the production of new aircraft, those that we’ll turn off MS-121, otherwise there’s nothing for “pensioners to eat,” but what will they “eat” with if production is stopped?

[Boris Chernikov]

in general, Alpha had claims not to UVZ, but to his daughter, and the media wrote that they would go bankrupt .. Yes, and in the modern sense, bankruptcy is the legal fixation of debt payments, not stopping the enterprise

[PSih2097]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

bankruptcy is the legal fixation of debt payments

It is interesting in what right (jurisprudence) is this written?
read the selected text:

Insolvency (bankruptcy) - recognized by the authorized state body debtor's inability (citizen, organization, or state) satisfy in full creditors' claims for monetary obligations and (or) to perform obligation to pay mandatory state payments.

[Boris Chernikov]

it is spelled out in the current situation in Russia, now no one will let the military factories close, so there will be a debt restructuring procedure, for the sake of which the bankruptcy request has been launched

[Alekseev]

Quote: garx

Import substitution did not fail

And here import substitution ...
Where a horse with a hoof, there is also a cancer with a claw - just to blur something ...
Most likely there is no order for a large series of new cars because there is not enough money for everything at once, because the Strategic Missile Forces and other things are not possible to weaken: elderly psychopaths with brain tumors ruled in the USA, everyone can be expected from them ...
And the Kurganmashzavod, in spite of whatever debts are, will be saved, because no one has canceled the BMP yet.
Well, you need to plant, not gardens, of course, but more managers.

[Walanin]

Quote: Alekseev

older psychopaths with brain tumors ruled in the US

only with these psychopaths the USA is flourishing, and in a country of a young and promising politician sitting on the throne for 17 years, it’s not very

[72jora72]

only with these psychopaths the USA is flourishing, and in a country of a young and promising politician sitting on the throne for 17 years, it’s not very

You have problems? someone offended? ....... life failed (? ............ trouble however.
P.S. ........... In the USA, you would definitely live in a cardboard box and eat in the dining room for the homeless.

[Walanin]

Judging by the dots, you would not play a psychologist, but you would be tested yourself.

[72jora72]

Judging by the dots, you would not play a psychologist, but you would be tested yourself.

I work at nuclear power plants, and for this I go through a psychiatric examination once a year, and a psychophysiological examination once every 1 years ....................

[St Petrov]

only with these psychopaths the USA is flourishing, and in a country of a young and promising politician sitting on the throne for 17 years, it’s not very

Tell us how your life is flourishing. what breakthrough have you made in 17 years

such a promising forum member. such posts. and what criticism. I will listen directly with pleasure

You will be an example for Putin and for the whole of Russia

[Mestny]

And how many ran into the comments of the mourners. Naturally, nobody really read the news. The main thing is to start whining about everything is gone.

[Oleg Kalugin]

Exactly, all type is top! Your piggy enthusiasm also turns me on!
Two extremes of idiots: 1. Everything is lost 2. Everything is fine!
Your group number 2)))
Remember the major in the movie Brest Fortress? He says: "I warned you!"
So here he is, for people like you - all a prowess.
And for the people he is a hero!
Do you understand what the hint is?

[Sergey Kiryushin]

To write about "everything is bad" on the basis of the idle talk of veterans on an inter-party discussion, which, only for publishing the level of "Kurgan and Kurgan" can be an informational reason - this is the natural "everything is gone." It is possible and necessary to draw conclusions only having complete information confirmed by facts. And conclusions based on unfounded statements are either nagging or joy for no reason.

[Oleg Kalugin]

Now, Liza Peskova will come to you and solve all the problems having at the age of 19 all the information and dad in the Kremlin. Do you get a hint? I’ll try to help: you’re a nice person stuck at a time when statesmen and ladies were sitting at all levels, and now THEY are bringing dogs to Paris for exhibitions on airplanes (Shuvalov), "what does it cost a student in Moscow to buy a small apartment of 50 m2" - Matveenko. For the state of offense, this is not for them. So it's time to understand that Santa Claus - no!

[Sergey Kiryushin]

You see, but at the moment I can observe that the country really has some kind of state policy. Obviously, she is still in the initial stage of development. And it is obvious that not all the "political idiots" have yet been able to get lime. I also don't like Peskov, Medvedev or Matvienko. About Shuvalov, I can say that he served with him and he is the "golden youth" of the 80s and 90s. Therefore, I do not expect much. But the general cleaning of characters of dubious competence can lead to a collapse of the executive vertical. Alas, this is so. Therefore, "point" actions are held for a different category of officials. But this does not negate the fact that the chatter over tea of ​​veterans should have the status of an irrefutable fact that allows us to draw unambiguous conclusions.

[DarkStar]

Quote: garx

Import substitution did not fail, that’s the reason for the failure!

Well done, you know the smart word - import substitution.

But in general, what does it have to do with the Kurganmashzavod?

And in general, just to blurt out, these are school manners

[mark1]

Your works are wonderful, Lord! So, in conscience, Danil Relin and his comrades should be the junior woodcutters at the timber industry farm.

[Inhabitant of Mordor]

And exactly "lumberjacks"? Add a couple of letters to add a couple and now the picture will become more clear.

[Sailor]

Since the crisis is at the factory, money is needed, and they want to take it for a new development or modernization of Kurganets, eh, comrade Stalin would explain where to get it to both banks and management.

[dauria]

eh, comrade Stalin would explain where to get them both to banks and management.

Nowadays, banks and their owners make "Stalin's comrades" and explain to them how to behave in order to continue to eat bread and butter.

[Dangerous]

Which year they’ve been sawing this platform and only now it turned out that it was unsuccessful. Well, a mess!

[DIVAN SOLDIER]

But on TV "has no analogues in the world" ....

[Mestny]

She’s not only on TV, she really is. Despite the ritual dances and the shaking of the pace of one dismissed “lowly”.

[fif21]

Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER

But on TV "has no analogues in the world" ....

And this is true! Only with a minus sign.

[Boris Chernikov]

that even though you all hit the mourners? 1) if the project is so unsuccessful, then this deputy should go to court as a saboteur, because he was in charge of the project. 2) most likely he corny decided to cheat on the former leadership, raising a wave and, as a result, forcing the general designer to groundlessly make excuses. 3) taking into account PR, the car will be trivially brought to mind postponing adoption for a while, and in these 2-3 years they will purchase a couple more hundred BMP-3s and maybe, at last they will begin to modernize deuces. How many projects were initially considered wrong? They drove the mind and everyone flies that the su-27, that mi-28, that the ka-50 in the ka-52 became.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Dangerous

Which year they’ve been sawing this platform and only now it turned out that it was unsuccessful. Well, a mess!

There was a series of tests. There were problems that cannot be changed without major changes in the TK. It’s not worth blaming anyone for this is a normal process. Look not at the problems with the new APC in the USA. Years 7 can not accept.

[woron333444]

The first car was not assembled in Kurgan, but in our factory. The car passed the tests and everyone at the plant thought they would produce it with us. But the mound was taken. Now there are some problems.

[Pecheneg]

and what were the bright prospects

[Oleg Kalugin]

Prospects are always rosy for Ivan, that riches with thought are a Russian proverb.
Advocacy on this and gets a job!

[cedar]

Who owns the plant, who is the owner, in whose hands a controlling stake, what is the share of foreign capital, what foreign consulting companies control financial reporting, in whose interests to bankrupt the plant, who are competitors and enemies ????????
Without coverage of these issues - this article and the like, unsuccessful stuffing, a dummy for babies ...

[woron333444]

The Uralvagonzavod has problems with the car factory, and everything is normal with the military commissar. They cut off civilian products and problems disappear

[Polite Moose]

The material contains a statement by the former deputy chief engineer of the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant, Danil Relin. According to him, the project of the tracked platform, which was discussed above, is unsuccessful.

Perhaps the key word here is "former deputy."
If talent and genius are not appreciated, then this, you know, is insulting, yes. Chess word.

[AID.S]

Quote: Polite Elk

Perhaps the key word here is "former deputy."

Usually dep. engineers are not hand-made, production workers can tell designers, but not through interviews, and here it looks like a violation of the non-disclosure subscription.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: AID.S

Usually dep. no engineers

It depends on how the person came to this position.

[AID.S]

In my opinion, this is not a position for a career in our time. (See. Slusar). For what he is deprived of his position, it’s not said (maybe a genius, maybe he couldn’t handle it), but it would not hurt to shorten his language.

[zivXP]

At the same time, it isn’t noted what exactly makes Kurganets-25 an unsuccessful project. Or who...

Exactly. More specifically, it’s so much water and bubbles.

[newcomer]

exactly. I remember that about “Armata” some former also spoke poorly. in my opinion, this is a stuffing resentment of the past, past.

[samoletil18]

Although, somehow the news was slipping about a possible modernization of the BTR-50. Someone in advance sensed a catch with the "Kurgan"? And the BMP-3 is being driven in parades ... It is possible that Armata ate more money than planned, and the rest of the projects received less money. Naturally, the usual shift to the right in our time, especially in financing, is for the managers clearly an unsuccessful project. And the deputy chief engineer in our time is not necessarily an engineer.

[Megamarcel]

They brought the plant to bankruptcy so that they could allocate a boble, and then the raider seizure and the former defense enterprise will be used for leasing. Effective EPT Managers.

[Alex66]

And yet, well done mattresses, they destroy us without war, and the government cares about the market and investors, it’s time to understand that the market is good at the level of consumer services, and everything else requires planning, brain work.

[Mestny]

So far, only a careful reading of the article and the source requires the work of the brain.
Commentators mean.

[anjey]

The members of the working group sent an appeal to the Kurgan Regional Duma with a request to take control of the situation and not to aggravate the negative processes associated with the enterprise.

until Putin directly intervenes, the matter may come to a standstill, this is our mentality - as long as there is no responsibility for the real thing, there won’t be any cases, and of course it’s nonsense if one of the leading defense industry plants go bankrupt, at least they would charge for the sabotage under Stalin, they would sell the defense to foreigners who now put the sticks in the wheels ..

[uav80]

The fact that Alfa Group bankrupts the Kurganmashzavod has long been known, and even with the somim Kurganets-25, everything is not so smooth, it was not for nothing that the warriors called it the “grenade launcher’s dream,” they immediately declared that the silhouette was very large for BMPs ... that's why they want to knock out money for the development of a new machine ... It’s not yet clear whether the entire concern or some separate enterprise in Kurganmashzavod will bankrupt 7 or 8 different types of plants ...
Actually, the military enterprise has contracts, the same
BMP-3, BREM-L, BMPD-4, someone must do something, well, the modernization of the "old" BMP-2 is in full swing ...

[Aspid 57]

Great! And at the preliminary design stage, what was the “grenade launcher’s dream” not visible? Why, then, the project is not hacked? Why initially the maximum height of the silhouette was not assigned in the Terms of Reference? Command of the Ground Forces, Armored Directorate where looked? Are bankers to blame? Shpana in portkami with stripes, as always, is not guilty of anything! You might think the industry doesn’t share income with them, and they don’t know what kickbacks are ...

[Roma 1977]

To make the BMP lower - this means placing a recline. And cut it to five people. Means below - it is impossible, but it is better to improve protection against cumulative ammunition and make it comfortable for soldiers.

[fif21]

Quote: Roma-1977

To make the BMP lower - this means placing a recline. And cut it to five people. So below - you can’t,

Maybe the landing in the BMP should stand on the parade ground? BMP can be made lower, and the landing can be placed on the "armor", and not in it. Moreover, the "armor" on the BMP is a conditional concept that saves from small arms, and even then not from everything.

[Roma 1977]

Space should be sufficient vertically, taking into account the mine protection (absent in previous generation BMPs), and protection is required only from cumulative ammunition, in the form of screens. And a shatterproof shell inside. And on top - a combat module with enhanced target detection capabilities such as "chest target". Let it be big, with a landing party inside, and floating. To protect against ATGMs and cumulative grenades, it is not the size of the vehicle that is critical, but the ability to detect and destroy the enemy operator in advance. And the powerful armor holding the sub-caliber ammunition is for the heavy armored infantry fighting vehicles on the Armata platform.

[fif21]

Quote: Roma-1977

Let it be big, with a landing inside,

Well, the flag in your hands Big ship, big torpedo

Quote: Roma-1977

To protect against ATGMs and cumulative grenades, it is not the size of the vehicle that is critical, but the possibility of early detection and destruction of an enemy operator

The size of the car is critical for its cross-country ability and maneuverability. And the detection of a shooter with KPVT, PC, "Cord" or "Cliff" - BMP target detection system is your imagination.

Quote: Roma-1977

And the powerful armor holding the sub-caliber ammunition is for the heavy armored infantry fighting vehicles on the Armata platform.

The tank and BMP-BTR have different tasks on the battlefield. If you have a lot of money, can you make an infantry fighting vehicle on a tank platform, or is it more effective than self-propelled guns?

[Dart2027]

Quote: fif21

BMP can be made lower, and the landing can be placed on the "armor", and not in it

But why then do you need a BMP? Then it's easier to carry in trucks.

Quote: fif21

If you have a lot of money, you can make infantry fighting vehicles on a tank platform

Already do. In Israel. The idea is time-tested and quite a success.

[Per se.]

Quote: Roma-1977

To make the BMP lower - this means placing a recline.

First you need to decide on the very concept of BMP, which was created for a big war, as a universal, maneuverable machine. What was piled up in the era of Serdyukov’s “reforms” with “platforms” was squeezed into the concepts of a compact army, friendship with NATO and the United States, with the tasks of anti-terrorist operations, local wars against militants and the guerrilla tactics used by them. That is, they wanted to have essentially police, counterguerrilla equipment, which is being attacked from ambushes, on which land mines are placed on rear roads, and not just equipment, but a base, a “platform”. In general, to paraphrase a well-known saying, platforms are not born, they become platforms, they become during the development of industry, the test of time, successful and reliable design. Personally, I’m not at all sorry for the Kurgan, just as there wouldn’t be a pity for the T-15 or the Boomerang. The looters have mastered the managers, their transformers have been promoted, which have not even passed the entire test cycle, and on their basis they have already begun to prepare “platforms”, to use the money for development and research and development work for the development of what has not shown itself that is raw, expensive and complicated. I won’t be surprised if all the pathos with “Armata” will return to the idea of ​​one super tank with an 152 mm gun, and not a “platform”. Of course, one should not allow anything else to be added to the bankruptcy of the Omsk Tank Plant; all these figures, both with PR and bankruptcy, should be hung on pillars nearby. As for the counter-guerrilla equipment for the internal troops, local wars against the “barmaley”, one must determine the equipment for the special forces and not interfere with the heap, all the more with emphasis on comfort and “cold beer”, forgetting about the big war and the combat mission against full armies.

[gukoyan]

There is no money, but you bear it)))
Unsuccessful BMP is recognized because the state’s money must be asked for somehow, and then washed or something else.
The mafia is alone around the pancake, all now without attendants.
It is necessary to shock officials, there is not a lot of money in their pockets, and salaries of 200 thousand each, and ordinary people already become impoverished ((

[3officer]

Armata is expensive, the T 50 will soon grow old on trials about the Boomerang, they have forgotten at all, now the Kurganets is a bad one ??? But financially parasitic flocks spinning near each enterprise of the military-industrial complex and the incessant whine of adherents of the “Kudrinskaya” sourdough demanding to merge the remaining enterprises under “effective private” control are very successful. sabotage.

[Aspid 57]

Here are the Kudrinsk adepts and poke their nose into the whole mess of a divorced civil servant and state production! On private corporations, the mess is much less!

[shoemaker]

Kurganmashzavod OJSC has been a private enterprise since 1992.
since 2001 - Sibur property.
since 2005 - property of CHETRA
CHETRA withdrew all the money from the plant, took a huge loan from VEB secured by the plant and did not repay this loan. VEB has appointed the management company ... CHETRA !!! which again brought the plant to bankruptcy, now there are 2 or 3 court proceedings on debts to suppliers of components. In the spring of 2017, the plant for debts was taken from CHETRA and transferred to Rostec. But today, representatives of CHETRA and None of Rostec’s representatives remain on the board of directors.

[voyaka uh]

Old factories, old equipment can not cope with the release
latest developments. And they blame not themselves, but the designers.

[Aspid 57]

The designer does not have the right to issue drawings for a non-existent machine park. Or do as in the aircraft industry, immediately mortgage the purchase of new machines. A new plant was actually built under the new engine. In the old walls, as a rule ...

[avt]

Quote: Aspid 57

The designer does not have the right to issue drawings for a non-existent machine park.

Well, is this probably something new-mannered from the modern manegerat? Somehow in the USSR, questions of project implementation were settled on real production by designers with the department of the chief technologist at the stage of not even a prototype, but a layout. And certainly the designers did not bother with the machine park, and the manufacturer in the USSR.

[Genry]

Quote: avt

in the USSR, questions of project implementation were settled on real production by designers with the department of the chief technologist at the stage of not even a prototype, but a layout. And certainly the designers did not bother with the machine park, and the manufacturer in the USSR.

They did not bother with the plant, because they were always tied to a particular manufacturer. And as for the tinkering with the technologists, there have always been questions like: what kind of press do you have, the size of his table, the effort. Than to drill and mill or about the possibilities of foundry .....

[avt]

Quote: Genry

They did not bother with the plant, because they were always tied to a particular manufacturer.

Tales for Taraschi do not need to be told. Complex equipment, such as for example airplanes, missiles and even tanks, ships, TOTALLY in one factory did NOT KO-G-YES and no where! The cooperation was all over the Union and the State Planning Commission and the commission specialized in the Central Committee were engaged in it. And if during

Quote: Genry

Utilities with technologists

there were questions

Quote: Genry

type: and what kind of press do you have, the size of his table, the effort. Than to drill and mill or about the possibilities of foundry .....

They gave it to where it could have been done, with subsequent delivery to the assembly plant, the head factory, which howls the final nameplate to the product.

[Genry]

Quote: avt

The cooperation was all over the Union and the State Planning Commission and the commission specialized in the Central Committee were engaged in it.

They tried not to mess with cooperation. Temporarily or if a completely different profile, such as rubber, plastic and electronics. In extreme cases, they went to the organization of a new workshop or branch. They didn’t want to get involved with independent idiots, someone else's hack-work and a breakdown in terms.

[voyaka uh]

"The designer does not have the right to produce drawings for a non-existent machine park." ///

The opposite is true. If drawings for a new product came to the plant, then
factory administration is obliged to take care to buy machines on which
it will be produced.
Sometimes in modern production it is necessary to update ALL plant equipment
every few years - patterns change quickly. Do not let out a new car
in time, for example, you fly away from the market. And maybe forever.

[Genry]

If the equipment is not guaranteed to be loaded and paid off, no one will buy it. And technologists will look at your drawings and tell you where to go.

[shoemaker]

None of the respected forum participants read the terms of reference, test reports of the Kurganets-25 product. Therefore, it is too early to praise or cherish this platform. State for years !!! state contacts on infantry fighting vehicles did not give, ALL contracts for the export of infantry fighting vehicles went through Rosvooruzhenie and the lion's share of the money went to the state. If Rostec doesn’t put things in order and doesn’t modernize the plant’s machinery, then in the future it will be necessary to buy equipment abroad. and yes, the technical specifications are issued by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, if the product meets the specifications of the statement of work, then there should be no questions to the designers.

[Roma 1977]

They cope with the release. The state cannot cope with financing.

[Romanenko]

And outwardly such a cool car .. Sorry, very sorry

[Oleg Kalugin]

like already all buried?

[creak]

Quote: Romanenko

And outwardly such a cool car.

Everything that is suitable for parades, not everything is suitable for war ....

[Oleg Kalugin]

I would say even more precisely: Not everything that shines in parades strengthens the country's combat readiness and is all the more created for war! This is the essence of inform war in the 21st century.

[The leader of the Redskins]

But what about laudatory praises? Here, the forum participants brains boil so quickly "change shoes"!

[Roma 1977]

IMHO, there is no doubt that the Kurganets is much better than the current base of motorized rifle units of Russia - BMP-2, manufactured in the 1980s. The question is the money for fine-tuning and production of 3 pieces.

[Vadim237]

Yes, all you need is 240 billion rubles, for the purchase of these 3000 Kurgan residents 25.

[Roma 1977]

Exactly. Or fight on foot, according to the tactics of 1812.

[TsUS-Air Force]

they built and what they built and we ourselves don’t know. Now we need a new technical task to know more specifically what we needed to build ?! asked and why the hell did they build the drain? without a job?

[Tuzik]

dachshund, who else have daughters unemployed left? urgently need to appoint a curator.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

It is not clear, of course, what exactly was unsuccessful in this machine according to the manufacturer ... But I am firmly convinced that all the equipment tanks, bmp, armored personnel carriers should have protection against anti-tank guided and non-guided missiles ... The landing party and crew should have a chance to survive , withstand at least a few hits on the car ...
It can do DZ on the machine itself and something like a protective capsule for the crew and the landing or DZ and a new KAZ system that would protect the tank both around the perimeter and from above and have the ability to disable some sections of the KAZ, for example, when infantry is nearby ...
Otherwise, some sort of DRG can simply shoot a column of armored vehicles on a march and dash off with impunity, and even in battle, unprotected vehicles now, with all kinds of anti-tank weapons, have also helped the infantry a little ...
In general, we need a secure machine ...

[Thomas I do not believe40]

Only mass shootings will save the motherland

[Mestny]

For starters, the country will save Internet access on a passport.
And then homegrown trolls divorced - do not push through.

[Großer feldherr]

Even better with a passport, and from special institutions only with FSB coupons, as in the DPRK.
And then pluralism and freedom of speech were bred, you see, you see, only spirituality and bonds are corrupted.

[Oleg Kalugin]

We proposed GDP, if he does not want to return the NKVD, then study the essence of the oprichnina! )))

[Alexey-74]

It seems that the words of the former deputy chief engineer of the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant Danil Relin are nothing more than a throw into some sort of liberal newspaper ... a statement of the offended, who decided to remind himself or annoy specially ..... so much time has passed the tests of Kurganets and they seemed to speak very successfully ...... and suddenly the project was unsuccessful ?!

[Oleg Kalugin]

Quote: Alexey-74

so much time are the tests of Kurganets and it seems they spoke very successfully ...... and suddenly the project is unsuccessful ?!

Well written, but your word "kind of" confuses a little.
Is it, like, exactly what’s good or how?
Let's decipher our doubts.
Smolensk Division 144 MSD. 1998 or 1997. They ordered from all the equipment: to drain all the fuel and lubricants and even the oil. They removed all the weapons, pulled out all the ammunition (they were taken very far away, very well). Just rested, the order to remove all wedge gates from the tanks and surrender. They were taken out already under Arkhangelsk. You won’t believe it, you still wanted to remove the rollers and engines ... But alas, there was already nobody. As a result, we made a storage base from MSD! One battalion was left in the battalions. storage department, they are in the past, battalion ....
I thought the army was being specifically destroyed!
Now thanks to people like you, I found out that THIS WAS A Tricky Plan!))) And it turns out: we unzipped the berets)))
What fate has broken, crippled, so this is garbage, right?
Maybe the Kurgan is also a tricky plan? AND?

[raw174]

Yes, unfortunately, this is the case with the plant, and its trouble is that no one needs it without a state defense order, it is necessary to produce civilian products, technologies, that is, and the plant will be lost ...

[fif21]

Well, at least one person gave an honest assessment of Kurganets-25. And then -sobriams, praise Even the photo shows that this is a tall machine with a narrow track, with a high center of gravity, a parody of Western samples. There is no highlight inherent in the Russian school of tank building. The concept - the landing in the car - is outdated, the concept of landing on the "armor" - no. Although the experience of local conflicts teaches that you want to live, go for the “armor”.

[Dart2027]

Quote: fif21

Well, at least one person gave an honest assessment of Kurganets-25.

And what did he specifically say?

[Dym71]

Quote: Panzermensch

Here's a scream.

Aha
Man is a mystery in which
the picture is closed
fauna and flora are combined,
oak and cattle are combined.

[72jora72]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

There was a series of tests. There were problems that cannot be changed without major changes in the TK.

Sound the test results and the problems that got out, well, give the links ....... and then the experts got divorced like fleas on the pas .....

[Normal ok]

Quote: juborg

Why publish at least unverified information ??? Question to the administration of the resource!

At VO, this has become the norm rather than the exception.

[Music]

Failure? Failure! And with what pomp they showed on TV! Hinted about the Big Secret inside! Mustache?

[alean245]

And can you specifically tell what the failure is? Although I am an amateur in matters of armored vehicles, I have not found any argumentation in the article.

[Laksamana besar]

Just speculation.

[UAZ 452]

The project "Kurganets-25" turned out to be unsuccessful, a new machine is needed, which means that the terms of reference for its development. But who should make it is not clear.
At the same time, it isn’t noted what exactly makes Kurganets-25 an unsuccessful project. Or who...

Why is it incomprehensible? They no longer give money for R&D; they demand to present at least a pre-production model for military tests. But this, during development, you can account for the money spent with beautiful computer presentations, replace real work with advertising and PR (up to concealing its complete absence). When military trials have already begun, there all the jambs become visible (if it was not possible to agree amicably with the testers), and the bloatedness of our favorite refrain about "having no analogues in the world" can be frighteningly obvious.
Therefore, it’s better not to bring to a series, or even to full-scale military tests, but to find a switchman to get out of the blow of real recipients of budgetary funds spent on R&D, and begin to develop a new, “improved” model, which will allow a number of years to be studied extremely easy and familiar work on the preparation of reports and computer presentations.

[UAZ 452]

And in general, quite sound ideas about the need to reduce the nomenclature of armaments and equipment and avoid duplication are regularly discussed. But the lobbyism of the defense industry representatives each time leads to the same thing: for budget money, several systems of the same type are developed at once to maintain specific design bureaus and factories, and then it turns out that not one of them could be brought to acceptable characteristics.
In Soviet times, this was done in order to combat monopoly and create a competitive environment. That's right, but now the whole world is a competitive environment. Wouldn’t it be better to consolidate the country's defense industry and compete with foreign models, fighting for a share in the global arms market?
But small-town interests should be crushed, despite the howl and cry of specific individuals wiped from the feeder who do not want to understand that the “development” of budget funds should in the foreseeable future end with the creation of a product with the necessary performance characteristics, and not just a report in the spirit of “money ran out, give more "and so on ad infinitum.

[deADOK]

1) Competition with the West implies that if a domestic plant does crap, then the West will always sell better. Only here is the nuance - the West will not sell Russia anything more complicated than a nail, and everyone understands this. But we are not talking about technology at all.

2) Even within individual Western countries, often, though not always (because it is one market, in fact), there is competition between manufacturers of similar things. For example, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumen, McDunal Douglas and others.

[mag nit]

We need to rivet something new for the next parade.

[vnord]

No one knows what. Information 0. The forum on the one hand cry Yaroslavna, on the other Urya. And true somewhere nearby ...

[tchoni]

To be honest, this is the implementation of my worst nightmare. Initially, the project was not inspired, since it had no advantages over bmp3. Neither security nor other parameters. Then the “armata”, imprisoned under the tank, and, apparently, failed as an infantry fighting vehicle, already collapsed.
It was hoped that using active and dynamic protection, it would be possible to bring the protection parameters of the Kurgan to the level of rpm and I would receive a universal platform, albeit in the intermediate class.
Now I don’t know what to think ....

[Offspring]

And how would Comrade react to this situation? Stalin ...

[Pancir026]

Quote: Prole

And how would Comrade react to this situation? Stalin ...

Two options-1) brought to mind and the troops, saboteurs under trial and bring down the forest.
2). Saboteurs under court and to the wall-technician brought to mind and the troops.
Which one suits you?
However, it would be very good for us now to do this.
Baikal can be installed both on old Soviet-Russian developments and on modern machines. For example, on the BTR-80 and all BMP models (from the 1st to the 3rd) or on the Armata platform cars, that is, on the Kurganets-25 and the T-14 itself. The combat module has a gun with a caliber of 57 mm and a rate of fire of 120 rounds per minute. The firing range is 12 kilometers, and the list of intended targets varies from light armored vehicles to aircraft. In other words, the development of the Russian military-industrial complex has sufficient lethal power to hit almost any target on the ground and in the air. An excellent aid in this can be provided by modern ammunition: high-explosive fragmentation ammunition 53-UOR-281U, armor-piercing tracer 53-UBR-281U or guided shells and others. Machines equipped with Baikal will not be able to cope except with heavily armored tanks and stationary fortified bunkers ....
Source: https://politexpert.net/56808-faktor-sily-au-220m
-baikal-unichtozhit-lyubuyu-cel-na-zemle-iv-vozd
uhe

[UAZ 452]

If everything was so simple, then there would not be such a depressing number of weapon systems that were at the disposal of the Red Army, which in 1941 showed their complete failure.

[Offspring]

Both answers are fine. All the same, our weapons do not move forward. 76 @ are preparing a technological breakthrough. In about ten years, autonomous drones will appear bearing a hundred kilogram bombs and how kamikaze will destroy everything in its path. Autonomous drones will attack from all directions from the air by spraying chemical and bacteriological weapons. Artificial intelligence has grown so much that it drives cars in a dense city stream better than humans. All these expensive tanks and aircraft of the latest generations will soon turn into nothing. The main weapon in a technological war is time. In order not to lose then you need to hit first now if there are no prospects for growth. In the meantime, we prefer to buy other people's debts instead of machines and grow obedient performers instead of dreamers.

[Prjanik]

A laid-off worker somewhere made an offended stuffing, and the weeping people are all weeping right there)) The Kurganians are unsettled, well, they will bring to acceptable ones over time, the project is new.

[UAZ 452]

If initially the concept is unsuccessful, then no one will bring to mind, never, at any cost. But even if the concept is working, then they can bring it, but not all. In any scientific team there should be one, or several generators of ideas, and many artisans who bring these ideas to mind. If these "laborers" are not, or are not enough, then no idea will reach a competitive model with the required performance characteristics.

[Prjanik]

One can guess for a long time, the former deputy chief engineer didn’t tell what exactly didn’t suit, why they didn’t immediately fix it and how to solve this problem. My opinion is that it will be accurate to bring the project and support KMZ, not just one UVZ live, by analogy with Sukhoi and Mig, not to keep eggs in one basket, and the competitive element stimulates growth.

[Vladimir SHajkin]

The task for the new car should be developed at the beginning of the tests of Kurganets

[Atlant-1164]

our song is good, start over!

[unknown]

there are such people as henchmen - who bankrupt not only enterprises but also entire areas are driven into debt by debt.! There is someone Kuyvyshev who over the years of his governorship drove the Sverdlovsk Region into such debts - Mama Do not Cry! And here are the largest enterprises, including those working for the defense industry: Uralvagonzavod, Vector (Almaz-Antey), Tagil enterprises! That's who you need to ask!

[Vladimir Mamkin]

How does the former deputy know this? What is he invited to develop weapons or how? It looks like a zakz article

[LEYBSHTandArts.]

Ha Ha Ha there you have the BMP) sawn dibs.

[DiKoff]

One and the same song - money leaked, no products

[Concept1]

Yes, all this nonsense, a refutation will be released in a week!

Just kicked out this Relin now resentful walks ..)

[Jurkovs]

It is unfortunate that recently the Military Review has become a dumping ground for inaccurate and unverified information. A kind of trolling patriots.
Former deputy ch. engineer, at a meeting of the Council of Veterans of the city expressed his opinion, which was immediately disseminated by all media. The speed of distribution of information indicates an obvious ordering.
But a bummer. Today, on the News website of the military-industrial complex, a statement by the Kurganmashzavod about the progress of the state order has been distributed. And there everything is OK.

[antikilller55]

Interestingly, so much money has been invested in the development, design and production and bam failure, we need a lot of money for modernization or a new project, great.

[Alex ros]

But isn’t the Armata project platform used for the new BMP?

[Alex ros]

Quote: Alex Ros

But isn’t the Armata project platform used for the new BMP?

BREM T-16 (so far only a project), BMP T-15, and actually the T-14 tank.

[the same doctor]

No, but why did they all rush to write about failure? Some offended Jew threw an unfounded statement. And where is the evidence, the analysis? But now how pleased are our competitors in foreign markets! For this alone, Relin must sit. He caused damage to millions. Incidentally, in the USSR, more than 100 rubles were shot for damage.

[Dmitriy51]

Quote: also a doctor

Incidentally, in the USSR, more than 100 rubles were shot for damage.

and in the Russian Federation now they are almost rewarding ....

[cedar]

Quote: also a doctor

No, but why did they all rush to write about failure? Some offended Jew threw an unfounded statement. And where is the evidence, the analysis? But now how pleased are our competitors in foreign markets! For this alone, Relin must sit. He caused damage to millions. Incidentally, in the USSR, more than 100 rubles were shot for damage.

Incidentally, in the USSR in order that everything in the military-industrial complex and the Army would be at a high scientific and technical level, there would be plenty of time, and there would be no executions, in 1957 a military-industrial commission was created under the Presidium of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, plus such a powerful and a unique government structure, like the USSR State Planning Commission.
Do you see anything like this now? I also...
See the root. How much you don’t cry for the yolk, but without your Gosplan of the Russian Federation, other people’s shareholders and planners of all kinds, types and citizenships will plan for us and put sticks in the wheels ...

[Dmitriy51]

I drank the dough again...

[Alexander Petrov1]

In general, strategic defense enterprises should be prohibited from taking commercial loans at huge interest rates! It is necessary to lend directly from the Government at 5% per annum - as it was in the USSR! And then there will be no problems at military strategic factories! And as for KURGANTS-25, it’s a good car! - no worse than NATO technology - and maybe better! But it’s definitely twice as cheap! There is a new in-line multi-fuel diesel engine YaMZ-770 (power 750 horses - and service life for the military is 5 thousand hours) - no worse than the best Western military models! And what they write is that KURGANETS-25 is a tall vehicle - it is even lower than some NATO infantry fighting vehicles! - but it is more spacious - than in the old BMP-3! But for a good grenade launcher, a difference of 20 cm in height does not play a big role!?

[Roma 1977]

Exactly. The Javelin doesn’t care whether the target is 5 meters long or 6 meters long. But the infantry inside doesn’t care.

[Alexander Petrov1]

Sorry, I was wrong - the YaMZ-780 engine for KURGANTS-25 has a service life of 2500 hours (equivalent to a truck mileage of 166 thousand km)! For such a large boost and for military tracked vehicles - with its short mileage - more than enough! - especially since theoretically there should be an auxiliary installation there - so as not to waste the resource of the main diesel engine while parked!?

[Oleg Kalugin]

Quote: Genry

Quote: Oleg Kalugin

Propaganda for suckers, the usual story

It remains to find out who you are. A sucker or a propagandist?

You provoke me to insult you. I won’t answer you, I filed a complaint against you. I acted like everyone else!)))