The National Interest: Why Russia's once-powerful fleet is in big trouble

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After many years of decline, the Russian Navy is gradually recovering its potential. New ships are being built, new campaigns are being organized in remote regions, and real combat operations are also being conducted. Nevertheless, while the Russian fleet in its power can not be compared with fleet The Soviet Union at the peak of its development. This situation attracts the attention of domestic and foreign experts, and therefore often becomes a topic for discussion and analytical articles.

6 August: The National Interest published the next article by international security specialist Robert Farley in The Buzz. The topic of the publication entitled “Why Once Once Superpower Navy Is in Big Trouble” (“Why the once super powerful fleet of Russia is in big trouble”) was the current state of affairs in the Navy of our country, as well as the prospects for its development. According to the analysis of the available information, the American expert came to negative conclusions.



At the beginning of his article, R. Farley recalls recent events. So, last year the Russian Navy carried out several large and significant operations. Offshore Syria was working ship group, led by the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov", and the ships of the Caspian flotilla launched cruise missiles. The activity of the submarine forces has also increased, although not yet to the level of the last Cold War.



However, the author believes that Moscow, building plans for the development of the fleet, should listen to the Gospel of Matthew: "Watch and pray, so as not to fall into temptation: the spirit is alert, but the flesh is weak." The Russian fleet is in a messy state and in the future, this situation is likely to worsen.

The current situation

R. Farley recalls that Russia inherited from the USSR a numerous and modern fleet of submarines and surface ships. However, the young state could not support such a Navy, because of which a significant part of the ships was quickly written off. The remaining major combat units are currently distinguished by a great age and an ambiguous technical condition. Thus, only three of the 24 large surface ships (frigates of the 11356 project) were laid down after the collapse of the USSR. At the same time, a significant number of ships are nearing the end of their life cycle, despite all efforts to upgrade and modernize.

How long the only aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov can remain in service is a big question. However, despite all the ambitious proposals and projects, it will not be possible to replace it in the near future. The heavy nuclear missile cruiser Peter the Great continues to serve, and in the foreseeable future the Admiral Nakhimov of the same type will join it. However, the age of these cruisers has already passed for 30 years.

Future projects

R. Farley notes not the most pleasant tendency observed during the development of the Russian Navy. If Moscow had built every ship that had been promised for construction over the past decade, now it would have had a world-class fleet. In the context of national security, the Russian state has succeeded in announcements of large projects, but is lagging behind in their implementation. The actual situation with the construction of ships and submarines, by global standards, looks quite gloomy.

The greatest successes of the modern Russian shipbuilding are the frigates of the projects 11356 (Admiral Grigorovich-class) and 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov-class). The first have a displacement of 4000 tons, the second - 5400 tons. Construction of the lead ship "11356" took about seven years, the first frigate of the 22350 project was built about nine. Two frigates of the 11356 project have already entered the fleet, and the head Admiral Gorshkov of the 22350 project will have to start service before the end of this year.

Here, the author recalls the pace of construction of the leading ships of some modern foreign projects. So, the first British destroyer Type 45 was built about six years. The lead American ship of the Arleigh Burke type was built in four years. Japan and China spent the same amount on building the first destroyers of the Atago and 052D projects, respectively. At the same time, R. Farley notes that all of the above-mentioned foreign ships differ from Russian frigates by almost a large displacement.

A good substitute for aging ships currently in service could be 12 promising destroyers of the “Leader” type with a displacement of 17 kt. However, there is little to say that the Kremlin is really going to build such ships, not to mention the completion of construction. within a reasonable time. The recent economic crisis has led to an additional deterioration in the situation in military shipbuilding. The annexation of the Crimea and the subsequent sanctions of third countries seriously limited the possibilities for acquiring foreign-built ships, as was already the case with universal landing ships of the Mistral type. However, for the time being we cannot exclude the possibility of the appearance of an order for ships of Chinese construction.

Submarines

The central element of Russia's naval power is the submarine fleet, first of all, nuclear submarines of various classes. According to the American author, nuclear submarines - both strategic and multi-purpose submarine cruisers - in fact became the only direction in which Russian shipbuilding succeeded after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The composition of the submarine forces was significantly reduced - at certain periods only 13 submarines with ballistic missiles, 7 carriers of cruise missiles, 17 nuclear submarines with torpedo arms and about two dozen diesel-electric ships remained in the ranks. Nevertheless, despite all the difficulties, the Russian fleet was working on a replacement for decommissioned submarines and was preparing new projects.

In the foreseeable future, the eight submarines of the Borey 955 project will be a deterrent to strategic use. Three of them have already been built, and the rest are already at different stages of construction and will be commissioned over the next few years. The existing multi-purpose submarines of the 945, 949 and 971 projects will be complemented by the latest 885 “Ash” cruisers in the amount of seven units.

Comparison

The current situation in the Russian Navy R. Farley offers to compare with the situation in the past. To this end, he recalls the main events and trends of the 20th century, including those that took place shortly before the formation of the modern Russian fleet.

In the context stories The Russian navy last century was a very interesting period. In 1905, Russia was a developed “second-tier” naval power. She had large and modern fleets in the Baltic and Black Seas, as well as in the Pacific. Losses during the Russo-Japanese War led to a real crisis, but soon the situation was rectified. After 13 years after the Tsushima battle, despite the exit from the First World War, the Russian fleet will receive seven new dreadnoughts. These ships allowed Russia to be on a par with such sea powers as France and Italy. However, it still could not compete in this respect with the UK, the United States, Germany or Japan.

The October Revolution 1917 of the year, in contrast to the process of the collapse of the Soviet Union, simultaneously led to a consolidation of efforts and a temporary suspension of a number of ambitious military projects. Like the Russian Federation in a few decades, the USSR in the first 20 years of its existence did not have a clear idea about the future development of the navy. Just before the start of World War II, a large-scale construction program was launched.

However, the outbreak of war stopped the implementation of existing plans, and also led to obvious conclusions. It became clear that the power and security of the state, first of all, are connected with the ground forces, but not with the fleet. At the same time, the country's leadership did not abandon the further development of the Navy. As a result, at a certain point — already during the Cold War — the fleet of the Soviet Union surpassed the French and British navies in numbers and strength, becoming the second in the world.

But then everything fell apart again. The new independent Russia could no longer support the navy it had inherited. In addition, the capabilities of the young state were insufficient to maintain the pace of construction of new ships and preserve a full-fledged "healthy" shipbuilding. The fleet entered the death spiral. The cost of maintaining the technical condition of old ships increased, as well as the time spent building new ones. At the same time, the quality of construction and maintenance fell. The last blow at the moment was the economic crisis of recent years. According to R. Farley, foreign sanctions and falling energy prices have led to the fact that now only the construction of submarines is showing signs of life.

The author of The National Interest also writes that in the current situation, comparisons of the Russian fleet with foreign naval forces are far from being in its favor. By the time Russia builds its second aircraft carrier, the Chinese fleet will have at least three such ships. India and the UK will already have two ships each with an air group. From the point of view of other surface ships, the situation looks even worse. France, the United Kingdom, Japan and China over the past decade have built and put into operation new large surface combatants. According to R. Farley, all such foreign innovations are superior to the old Russian ships in terms of technological complexity.

It is particularly noted that a comparison with Chinese shipbuilding gives even more noticeable results. Russia has ordered and received five surface ships since 2000, of which three were laid during the times of the Soviet Union. The Chinese fleet during this time managed to order around 40 ships. In the future, probably, a similar ratio of numerical indicators will only worsen.

Results

Robert Farley illustrates the current situation in the development of the Russian Navy by Robert Farley with a quote from Dmitry Gorenburg’s recent article “Russia's New and Unrealistic Naval Doctrine”, published in late July in War on the Rock. The author of this publication wrote that the naval ambitions of Moscow at the moment look painfully unrealistic. Until Russia restores its naval shipbuilding, it will not be able to compete with China, Japan or South Korea. Until Russia restructures its economy, it will not succeed in restoring shipbuilding.

Despite the large investments in the defense sector, for the time being Russia can claim leadership only in certain areas of military shipbuilding. These are nuclear-powered submarines with ballistic missiles and other weapons, as well as frigates and other ships of the middle classes. Simultaneously with this great achievement, we can consider the adaptation of the newest missile systems to be installed on already existing platforms of different classes.

R. Farley considered it necessary to remind that the modern Russian Federation is forced to live with the same problems as its predecessors in the person of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. The Russian Navy is divided into four main operational strategic alliances. However, none of them can easily support the others. Because of this, in particular, the campaign of "Admiral Kuznetsov" in the eastern regions of the Mediterranean Sea with the subsequent return without serious damage was considered a great success. For comparison, the author cites the Chinese Navy, divided into three regional fleets, capable of helping each other without much difficulty.

Having reviewed various known data and having drawn some conclusions, the author of The National Interest summarizes. He writes that at present the Russian fleet is in poor condition, and the country is simply unable to rebuild it, getting rid of the existing shortcomings. In the foreseeable future, Russian shipbuilding should be engaged only in those projects that are guaranteed can be implemented in the existing situation. First of all, it is necessary to develop a nuclear submarine fleet of strategic and other purpose, and also to build a relatively small group of surface ships capable of solving certain tasks. Apparently, these plans should not be supplemented in view of the complexity or impossibility of performing new tasks.


The article "Why Most Once Once Superpower Navy Is in Big Trouble":
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russias-once-superpower-navy-big-trouble-21796
59 comments
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  1. +2
    10 August 2017 06: 04
    12 promising destroyers of the Leader type with a displacement of 17 tons could be a good substitute for outdated ships currently serving. Today, however, there is little evidence that the Kremlin is really going to build such ships, not to mention the completion of construction. in a reasonable amount of time.
    The Russian Navy will still receive new surface ships of the far ocean zone. A draft design of the destroyer destroyer Leader of the Northern Design Bureau (city of St. Petersburg) was approved at the Russian Ministry of Defense. The technical design of the new generation ship is included in the state armament program for 2018-2025. The start of construction is scheduled for 2025, but metal cutting for eight destroyers will begin in 2018.https: //ria.ru/analytics/20170729/1499181539
    .html and F. Klintsevich a week ago, broadcast from Solovyov’s screen that the issue of aircraft carriers was resolved positively, and also cutting metal in a year ... it was hard to believe (or rather, I can’t believe it at all), but he said so ...
    1. +16
      10 August 2017 09: 42
      How amers want to drag us into a new arms race. They are well aware that a large surface fleet is a very long time and very expensive. And build and contain. And in a global war, its value is highly questionable. And you need to understand that the Russian Federation has a specific location - the Baltic and the Black Sea are easy to block, and access to the World Ocean from the Northern Fleet is also not the best. And what is there to do especially for us in a total war without bases and infrastructure? We are building ships of the near zone and over time we will switch to something larger. According to needs. But without fanaticism.
      1. +2
        10 August 2017 16: 50
        It is necessary to take not quality but quantity. What is the use if the USSR had a powerful Navy, all power consisted of the total number of ships and submarines. These were mostly obsolete projects. So submarines basically consisted of diesel electric pl 613, 641 project. They created the only unique Komsomolets square and drowned it. Now the emphasis is not on quantity but on quality, and rightly so.
        1. +4
          10 August 2017 20: 15
          Quote: Georgy Ivantsov
          What is the use if the USSR had a powerful Navy, all power consisted of the total number of ships and submarines. These were mostly obsolete projects.

          Yeah. 949 and 949A, (no one had anything like it), "goldfish", "pike" and "pike-B", not inferior to moose in the least ... Some outdated projects laughing
      2. 0
        13 August 2017 13: 09
        The article says nothing about this. The analysis of the state and realism of the development plans of the fleet. The main factor threatening the implementation of plans to bring the fleet to the state that is required to ensure the combat effectiveness of the RF Armed Forces is called economic. To argue reasonably with the author, you need to be an expert in economics and defense policy of the Russian Federation.
    2. +8
      10 August 2017 09: 47
      Until Russia restructures its economy, it will not be able to restore shipbuilding. - from article

      For sure. Everything depends on the economy, which does not allow for the restoration of shipbuilding, aircraft building, machine-tool construction and other strategic industries.
      The “market that will resolve everything” does not cope with the strategic tasks of the country's development entrusted to it. It is necessary to return to planned state priorities in the most important strategic sectors of the country, with a decisive share of the state in them.
    3. +4
      10 August 2017 11: 49
      In short, postponed indefinitely. And so that the public would not be too indignant, they threw in information about metal cutting.
    4. +4
      10 August 2017 20: 13
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      The Russian Navy will still receive new surface ships of the far ocean zone.

      In the foreseeable future - no
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      Construction start scheduled for 2025

      the end is in the year 2035, just by then our missile cruisers and the last BOD will have been cut into metal.
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      and F. Klintsevich a week ago, broadcast from the screen

      Hard drugs are very harmful.
    5. 0
      12 August 2017 15: 13
      Messages, as it turns out, are not always true
      1. 0
        31 August 2017 16: 33
        missile carriers are needed and multi-purpose submarines. and the surface fleet can wait. this is not my professional opinion. maybe erroneous. but the possibility of a nuclear strike from the sea is an important opportunity. may not reflect correctly in past wars. but Doonets clearly showed horror from the submarines. hi
  2. +4
    10 August 2017 06: 19
    Journalists from the American edition of The National Interest are right. Russia needs to take an example from the foremost shipbuilding: Ukraine and the Baltic states! fellow
    But I think we’ll figure it out with our Navy. Something often began to criticize us, apparently we are doing everything right.
    1. +1
      10 August 2017 06: 26
      And they are right, indeed ... Not in the long run! The prospect of a "Great Fleet" and the rest of the Baltic states do not threaten us.
    2. 0
      10 August 2017 14: 03
      Yes, three hundred and twenty-seventh, you're right !!! Indeed, the cunning American found completely incorrect comparisons. And Ukraine with the Limitrophs is also too much. I would compare it with the fleet of Tibet or Mongolia - and immediately I would feel calm at heart.
  3. +6
    10 August 2017 06: 52
    He writes that at present, the Russian fleet is in poor condition, and the country is simply not able to rebuild it, getting rid of the existing shortcomings.


    «Already our engineers have set up 510 cost-cutting initiatives, and we are considering 1 more for implementation. We reduce overhead through initiatives such as consolidation of leased facilities and a sharp reduction in energy and consumables. Thousands of process improvements at a lower level using lean manufacturing principles.
    We eliminated 3 million hours of construction work and contributed to a reduction in unit costs of about US $ 400 million per vessel.
    »2012

    This excerpt is from the Virginia-class submarine financial report. I am not a fan of the United States, but can we now build ships in Russia this way, with cheaper production, cost savings and materials? Honestly, I believe in this with great difficulty.
    1. 0
      10 August 2017 13: 15
      At every Russian enterprise with state participation, plans and measures are being developed to reduce costs, lean production, and import substitution. This work is controlled by the relevant ministries, the Federal Service for Supervision of Consumer Rights Protection and Human Welfare, etc. The interest of the enterprise is that the products have already passed the price commission and it is beneficial to reduce its cost.
      1. +4
        10 August 2017 22: 51
        Price reduction due to working staff. The camp completely lacks a trade union apparatus that would regulate industries and pricing. Everywhere there is an understatement of s / n, referring to crises. In all sectors there is a decline in production and s / n. It seems that it is not import substitution for local production that is taking place, but, in general, the outflow of everything together with the money from the country. And with all this, almost all the union cannot close the gates to labor immigrants. With such a pace, you will lose the skilled working population and become a country of the 3rd world, which will not even be able to mine its bowels. In all seriousness, I say, our government will bring it to this
        1. 0
          11 August 2017 10: 17
          It is not about unions. Under Peter 1 there were no trade unions and human rights, but the result was. And this is because public interest and personal disagree.
          And we will lose the qualified population for another reason: the average Internet user spends 6 hours a day in it. Educational sites are not included in the Top 20 of popular sites (except for conditionally educational Wikipedia). Those. of an average of 16 hours of wakefulness, 6 were spent on entertainment on the Internet. A big part of life, right?
          1. 0
            14 August 2017 21: 43
            I don’t think that we are the founders of a company called the Russian Federation. Therefore, 100% I think, when the time comes to fight, then several types of people will go to war: patriots, dogs of war and * to whom war and to whom mother is dear *. One thing is unambiguously clear: under this power, when our goods were sold and money was divided, and so far in the bowels it is ours, and whoever mined it will become it. Not everyone will be able and able to buy something with our salaries (for example, stocks), and pensioners generally do not live very well, and in many areas of life, too, they don’t. Moreover, the tingling that only heard about the USSR has grown. In general, in the Russian Federation at least 50% or even more will not go to war at all, since this
            is not in their interests, because they are cattle for the inhabitants of the beautiful world. so let those who are interested in this fight for their loaf. I will tell you straightforwardly to myself: I am a Cossack by origin and my ancestors joined the Zaporizhzhya army to the Moscow principality. and I won’t go: I’m here and in the new state I was still a worker, and I will remain
    2. +1
      10 August 2017 14: 41
      We eliminated 3 million hours of construction work and contributed to lower unit costs ...[i] [/ i]
      A lot of things are also written on the fence, you don’t have to take everything for granted. Nobody hides that we have a lot of problems. After such a collapse and chaos that occurred after the collapse of the USSR and the 90s and then stagnation, it’s good that even so. Therefore, a comparison is not entirely appropriate now.
    3. +2
      11 August 2017 04: 39
      but can we now build ships in Russia this way, with cheaper production, cost savings and materials? Honestly, I believe in this with great difficulty.
      Efficient use of funds and savings is the exact opposite of what concerns officials and other bribe takers. Bloated budgets make it easier to steal
  4. +6
    10 August 2017 06: 55
    I read the article, surprisingly objective and nothing to complain about. In fact (if without unnecessary cheers of patriotism) then it is so, the fleet of the USSR and present-day Russia cannot be compared in terms of the number of ships and capabilities, at one time the USSR Navy was one of the most modern fleets in the world, and we could well compete with the US Navy equal opportunities allowed, now alas. In terms of quality, I think the ships of the Russian Navy are in no way inferior to the ships of the Soviet Navy (if compared even with that time), and perhaps in some ways they are superior. But the lack of class 1-2 ships (modern ships) really negatively affects the capabilities of the Russian Navy. So far it is necessary to modernize ships still Soviet-built, but how long will this continue? It is very doubtful to the Leader that most ships of rank 1-2 will survive, but it’s quite up to 22350M, the main thing is that the deadlines do not disappoint and 1 ship does not build 9-10 years.
    1. +4
      10 August 2017 17: 06
      At one time, the Navy of the USSR was not advanced in quality, in terms of quantity I agree. The USSR submarine fleet basically consisted of the 613th project area after the construction of the 50s of the last century. 641 later built projects. Nuclear-powered icebreakers were in limited numbers and they basically stood at the berth due to financial problems in their operation. In the words of ALEXANDER VASILIEVICH SUVOROV, the enemy must be beaten not with numbers but with skill, that is, quality.
      1. exo
        +4
        10 August 2017 22: 55
        Rare nonsense! My father didn’t get out of the autonomy at the 675th project. Yes, and the rest of the nuclear powered ships, for a long time in Rybachy, did not stand.
      2. 0
        11 August 2017 20: 47
        Quote: Georgy Ivantsov
        Nuclear-powered vehicles were in limited quantities.

        150 pieces by the mid-80s a limited number? Bullshit. Though, look at Wikipedia to write comments on this topic negative
  5. +7
    10 August 2017 07: 34
    “If Moscow had built every ship promised to be built in the last decade, it would now have a world-class fleet.”

    But he is right, everyone promised that there would be 8 frigates 22350 by 2020 and the Leader in 2017 would be laid; As a result, it ended in complete failure, and as a result, it was necessary to build several (and not one, for unknown reasons) types of MPK / SKR, which also does not contribute to reducing the time for modernization of the Navy. I’m not a fan of America, NATO or China, but they said they did it, without too much hype and excitement, we only build ambitions and promise ourselves, but we don’t do it. Although they could, therefore, it is very disappointing.
    1. +4
      10 August 2017 14: 52
      Quote: Mark9103
      But he is right, everyone promised ...
      He’s right, he’s right ... But if sanctions were not applied against us, for example, for the supply of equipment and power units, the situation could have been better. But there is no silver lining (or a silver lining without Bismarck? laughing ) Now we have our own branch of ship engineering - the production of gas turbine ship engines. We are building a star on the Far East in Big Stone ... God willing and we can build an aircraft carrier there. Not as soon as we would like, but we will build it. And you must definitely build a balanced fleet of the open sea. The leadership has the awareness of this, which means that such tasks will be set soon.
      1. +3
        10 August 2017 20: 18
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        But there is no silver lining (or a silver lining without Bismarck?

        There are hoods without Bismarck :))) This is with Hudson Bismarck :))))) drinks hi
        1. +3
          10 August 2017 21: 21
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Taki without Bismarck Hood is :)

          Andrew, hello!
          It will be more accurate to say: Without Bismarck, HUD - WAS!
          But after the 4 volley of Bismarck - Hood was gone .... recourse
  6. +1
    10 August 2017 09: 09
    Analytics done right! Not very good with the navy, despite the best efforts of the capitalists!
  7. +9
    10 August 2017 09: 28
    Which country, such and the fleet.
    Modern Russia is an order of magnitude inferior to the Union in all areas except the income level of the population.
    1. +4
      10 August 2017 10: 43
      Quote: Großer Feldherr
      ... except for the income level of the population.

      Yes, and this point is quite controversial, given the so-called "public consumption funds."
    2. +4
      10 August 2017 20: 59
      Quote: Großer Feldherr
      Which country, such and the fleet.
      Modern Russia is an order of magnitude inferior to the Union in all areas except the income level of the population.

      In terms of income (counting as% of utilities and food basket) it is also inferior when counted in non-credit apartments per capita, in the quality and quantity of free mass education accessible to everyone, in preventive treatment in the quality and quantity of sanatorium-and-prophylactic almost free service, etc. ! laughing
      The USSR was second only to us in the number of prostitutes and drug addicts per capita, and also in the number of sexually transmitted diseases and infant mortality lol
  8. +4
    10 August 2017 10: 58
    Quote: Großer Feldherr
    Modern Russia is an order of magnitude inferior to the Union in all areas except the income level of the population.

    -------------------
    Add free housing, education and medicine to the "Soviet level of population income" plus the possibility of self-education in circles, sections and clubs, plus union affairs. And proceed from this. But in general, to compare with the country of 30-40 years ago is a non-comme il faut. We have already been accustomed to a higher level of consumption. I have three pairs of sneakers in the closet, despite the fact that you are trying to throw away old shoes. A mobile phone and a computer are ordinary things, well, whatever, take it.
    PS As for the fleet, then according to Senka there is also a hat. What we can, then we do it. It seems to me that there is no political will. There are still specialists in metal welding and cutting in the country, there are engineers. You can create new shipyards, you only need political will. Stalin generally had zero in his goose, but he did a lot of things.
  9. +3
    10 August 2017 12: 05
    You need to eat less palm oil: then there will be money for 14 aircraft carriers of the Vladimir V. Putin type, starting with the main one, Vladimir I. Ulyanov-Blank
    1. +2
      10 August 2017 21: 02
      And h
      Quote: clansman
      You need to eat less palm oil: then there will be money for 14 aircraft carriers of the Vladimir V. Putin type, starting with the main one, Vladimir I. Ulyanov-Blank

      And what do you smoke there at home ?? what
      1. +1
        11 August 2017 20: 49
        Probably palm oil. laughing
  10. +4
    10 August 2017 13: 05
    The article is quite positive - all the material (facts) was repeatedly covered and discussed at VO. The situation in military shipbuilding and the state of the Navy is revolutionary: "The tops cannot, the lower classes do not want to!" If you recall the statements of the Navy's GDP at the beginning of his presidential career. it’s not surprising that “The Fleet is too expensive a toy” for the Kremlin !? Rhetorical question: “What to do?” The author also practically answered it! But they just “want the Russian wars”? Do we remember the covenant of Admiral S.O. Makarov, knocked out on the wall of the Admiralty: “Remember the war!” I suppose that the majority of VO site subscribers “remember the covenant”, but in the Kremlin (Moscow Region, military-industrial complex, USC, etc.) NO !!! Good luck to everyone!
    1. +1
      10 August 2017 14: 33
      Quote: KudrevKN
      Do we remember the covenant of Admiral S.O. Makarov, knocked out on the wall of the Admiralty: "Remember the war!"
      Phrase S.O. Makarov "Remember the war" - knocked out on the pedestal of his monument, located on the Kronstadt Anchor Square, and not on the "wall of the Admiralty." (Petersburgers are cultural people: they don’t write on the walls!
      The exception is the falsified inscriptions from the time of the Siege: “Citizens! During shelling, this side of the street is the most dangerous! ”) Yes
      1. +1
        10 August 2017 14: 38
        You are wrong, Dear! And in Kronstadt there really is such an inscription. but it, like the monument, appeared later .. I wrote about the bas-relief inside the Admiralty above the entrance to the Reception Room of the Minister of the Navy (Grigorovich)! By the way. GDP on Navy Day was in the Admiralty and in the office of Grigorovmch, I believe that I saw a commemorative plaque (inscription)! Good luck to you!
        1. +1
          10 August 2017 15: 47
          Quote: KudrevKN
          And in Kronstadt there really is such an inscription. but she, like the monument, appeared later ..

          The inscription at the monument appeared in the year 1913. As for the bas-relief inside the Admiralty, I have no exact data. But I believe that the Minister of the Empire of the Sea would not adorn the portal of his cabinet with the statements of his compatriots. Maybe I'm wrong, with respect.
          1. +1
            10 August 2017 18: 14
            Yes. are mistaken. But that is not the point. Have you (or rather you) gone beyond the discussion (topic) of an article? Write a better comment in essence! Sincerely, K.N.
  11. 0
    10 August 2017 13: 07
    Russia is a land power and a fleet we need to protect our maritime borders and defend interests in the near sea zone, but in order to talk about global dominance, we need to clearly realize whether we really need it and at what cost we will achieve it, because for this Russia will need a truly huge fleet, which we are not able to build after the collapse of the USSR and the dashing 90s.
  12. +1
    10 August 2017 13: 15
    Quote: KudrevKN
    it’s not surprising that “The Fleet is too expensive a toy” for the Kremlin !? Rhetorical question: “What to do?” The author also practically answered it! But they just “want the Russian wars”? Do we remember the covenant of Admiral S.O. Makarov, knocked out on the wall of the Admiralty: "Remember the war!"

    --------------------------------
    The United States currently has the most powerful and diverse fleet, capable of performing various expeditionary and strike missions. But how appropriate is the maintenance of the fleet and its role in modern warfare? In Iraq, the U.S. Navy completed the bulk of the logistics and strike tasks. Aviation, missiles and fleet guns greatly helped the ground forces at the initial stage. But then the retention of the territories of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya turned into a headache for the garrisons left there, because the US ground forces are not such a formidable force and are contained only in the perimeter of the territory entrusted to them. They do not think about any large-scale military operations that the USSR was capable of. And the development of such operations for the headquarters of the US ground forces probably represents a very difficult task. Using the example of the Georgian army, we saw that the whole operation in South Ossetia consisted in reaching some points with the subsequent genocide of the population. When Russia used the forces of the 58th army, the entire Georgian operation planned by the Pentagon crumbled like a house of cards. That's all. Therefore, the Russian fleet still carries more of the strategic burden of nuclear deterrence, but it also showed its tactical teeth, despite the tiny boats that it has so far.
    1. +2
      10 August 2017 13: 55
      Sorry, Dear, but your “Urya - essay” from “Bullshit” in the spirit of Monsieur Sivkov or Klintsevich (military commissars of “strategists and tactics” of “couch troops of strategic
      1. +2
        10 August 2017 13: 59
        destination "? In the naval institutions of the USSR there was such a subject" Navy Tactics ", in the course of which experienced officers explained to us, the cadets - WHAT FOR WHAT THE Navy IS AND HOW TO WIN IN THE SEA BY USHAKOVSKI (SUVOROVSKI) !!! And after Saber.
  13. 0
    10 August 2017 15: 23
    Quote: seti
    amers want to drag us into a new arms race

    no new ideas, want to return to the 80s negative
  14. +1
    10 August 2017 15: 32
    Quote: KudrevKN
    Sorry, Dear, but your “Urya - essay” from “Bullshit” in the spirit of Monsieur Sivkov or Klintsevich (military commissars of “strategists and tactics” of “couch troops of strategic

    -------------------------
    Where is Urya? I say that we have enough strength for what we have. Your skepticism through galling teeth is also inappropriate. You are apparently in the forefront going to go on the development of the Russian fleet? I can go then, I work with welders and with any non-standard, hydraulics by education. And you are probably from couch skeptics who need a navy everywhere. But now we have allies as sea in the USSR, but they must somehow navigate, show the flag and the Muscovite.
    PS Me similar to your comments surprise me too. When there is nothing to say and nothing to argue, you just need to spit in the direction of an extensive commentary. Skeptics, they “see more”, “go further”, and generally the peasant mind is wider.
    1. +2
      10 August 2017 17: 45
      Glad for you and your active life position - it is very commendable! But I have to disappoint you - on the first higher level - am I an engineer - a shipbuilder of NK and a co-author of project 20630? "When there is nothing to say"? What are the words? Empty sound and vibration (wobble) of air? virtually no affairs - that’s the trouble !? As Vladimir Semenovich Vysotsky sang: "There are few real violent ones - here there are no leaders!" "Shepherds" were crushed - so you bleat in the general herd?
  15. +2
    10 August 2017 16: 45
    Well, about the fact that our fleet is weakened, we all already know. All shipyards are now building ships, there are enough orders. Well, “Leaders” in order to build, you must first prepare personnel. So everything has its own time, and our Navy does not have the task of controlling the oceans.
    What I would like is more potato-class frigates and ash-class boats, and those and those need at least 30 sides.
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  17. +5
    10 August 2017 18: 22
    Under socialism with a planned economy, the USSR could build aircraft carriers. Russia in capitalism with a market economy can build a maximum destroyer.
    We are laughing at Ukraine and their artillery boat Gyurza. But Russia is in the same position. Kazakhs have a suitable saying for this case: "Zhyrtyk tesikke kledi".
  18. 0
    10 August 2017 18: 24
    In my opinion, our situation with the fleet is not too deplorable. The most important thing for us is not to lose the underwater component, and the boats must be built at a level not lower than the state ones, as well as by number. And Ash trees without water cannons lose in noise and in maximum noiseless speed to Virginia, at which this speed was about 25 knots versus 20, and at maximum speed (for Virginia it was 34,5 knots versus 31 for Ash). And we will extend the surface component with the help of Karakurt, 20385 Corvette, 22350M Frigate, and, of course, Leader destroyers. It will be a full-fledged fleet with a salvo of 1500 missiles. Such a volley will sweep away any defense. But this is expected by 2025.
    1. +1
      10 August 2017 20: 31
      Quote: Tektor
      The most important thing for us is not to lose the underwater component, and the boats must be built at a level no lower than the state ones, as well as the number

      It's complicated. They already have 13 Virginia for one of our Severodvinsk, and another 6 in construction (we also have 6), but they build faster and make sense of additional bookmarks. We can only oppose them with new diesel-electric submarines, but Varshavyanka is no longer a cake, not helpless, of course, but ...
      Quote: Tektor
      And we will extend the surface component with the help of Karakurt, 20385 Corvette, 22350M Frigate, and, of course, Leader destroyers. It will be a full-fledged fleet with a salvo of 1500 missiles. Such a volley will sweep away any defense. But this is expected by 2025.

      (heavy sigh) by the year 2025, six or seven frigates 22350 and 22350M are expected (well, if it is), a "leader" is only possible ...
    2. 0
      13 August 2017 20: 07
      If we talk about the fleet - then it is not. There are dissimilar flotillas or understaffed formations. As a full harmoniously harmonious structure - no.
      The surface component is also important for covering the deployment of submarines, whose main factor is stealth, especially when striking back. Whether the strategists "graze" now from the moment they leave the base is not known. The “grazed” submarine is a worthless military unit.
  19. 0
    10 August 2017 21: 07
    Quote: jcksmt
    Under socialism with a planned economy, the USSR could build aircraft carriers. Russia in capitalism with a market economy can build a maximum destroyer.
    We are laughing at Ukraine and their artillery boat Gyurza. But Russia is in the same position. Kazakhs have a suitable saying for this case: "Zhyrtyk tesikke kledi".

    Well, thank God we at least do not finish building the Soviet corvette 12 years as Ukraine lol
  20. 0
    10 August 2017 21: 12
    At all times and in all countries, the development of the military-industrial complex attracted the rest of industry, high-tech industries and fundamental science, as a result of education and the social sphere. The stop of the defense order in a country where 80% of production is focused on the army and navy caused a considerable share of the chaos of the 90s (Americos didn’t stop, cherish and cherish and launch seemingly useless, bad and expensive projects - it touched the future and maintaining a high level of industry. And so much about arms sales to third countries as cares ..). I am glad that the government of Dima’s iPhone starts to reach (does it reach?) That the state defense order is this is their long-awaited “driver of the economy”. We will build aircraft carriers and destroyers, but we will only restore competence on MRK, corvettes and frigates. And the terms are also already being reduced - the first ones in the series are always long, just look at the terms of construction of the first in the series in the West and in mattress. We now have to raise everything from scratch. But already a new shipyard for large ships is beginning to emerge!
  21. 0
    10 August 2017 21: 51
    P * ndosy of envy * experience tearing!)
  22. +1
    10 August 2017 22: 21
    We are a continental country, all fleets except the northern one, pampering in the puddles in which they are based, and the northern one too elementary to lock up (look at the map without forgetting to draw the ice cover). The fleet is an expensive toy, there is no money and it will not be imagined, you need a distinct marine doctrine - a small but effective fleet for specific tasks. Which look something like this - to move the enemy away from our borders with the goal of, for example, not giving the trident 154 tomahawks at least in Moscow, knocking off our missiles on take-off to the Aigis, pushing our SSBNs away from the combat patrol zones for a distance guaranteeing time to launch the entire ammunition, causing irreparable damage carrier groups in the reach of their aircraft of our borders.
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  24. 0
    11 August 2017 15: 51
    the fleet is needed, like all other parts of the BP,
    no reduction in the level of threats from our neighbors on the planet since the USSR,
    "big guys" as crap, and crap, provocations were less? no, you might think Erdogan grumbled on a bomb without the support of big friends? also no
    barmalei popped up, the world did not become peaceful after the collapse of the USSR, with an accuracy of a turn.

    the fleet is needed, there is no money (adequate amounts for complex shipbuilding programs), the fleet is needed, there is no technology (the surviving research institutes do not show any super-breakthroughs, mainly the old workings of the Soviet era along with civilian imports and some low-grade copying of foreign samples), the fleet is not needed (instead of the horde of allies of the times of the USSR, there is a horde of trusted contractors with a turbo suction device and a x10 price tag for everything in the world), everything was, yes, it passed.
    the end

    ps although the Northwind was completed normally, but how much Soviet groundwork in submarines is still enough is a big question, there is an opinion that the ruby ​​is already at the end.
  25. 0
    12 August 2017 19: 16
    superficial article, meaningful reasoning and surprise, “why do they do this”, “why are the ships old”, “but because of Crimea sanctions” .... for the author “if you want to fly into space”, he’s used to getting loans without interest and is surprised that not everyone has such an opportunity