Military Review

Are there any prospects for the "flying party" CP-10?

77
Within the framework of the MAKS aerospace salon MAKS held in the Moscow Region, the promising Russian training aircraft CP-10 were presented to the general public. Hundreds of thousands of viewers could watch live as a small red car lifted into the air. The attention of the audience of the new jet attracts primarily the negative sweep of the wing (–10 ° along the leading edge). It is the unusual aerodynamic layout that is one of the main highlights of the new Russian training aircraft. His first flights CP-10 made another 25 December 2015 of the year.


The CP-10 jet training aircraft was created by the KB SAT team (“Modern aviation technologies"). SR-10 stands for "jet aircraft minus ten." According to the developers, it is designed to train pilots and participate in various competitions in air sports. The aircraft is able to perform aerobatics with a maximum overload of +8 to –6 g. The aerodynamic configuration of the CP-10 allows the pilot to perform aerobatics using elements of super-maneuverability that are characteristic of fighters of the 4th and 4th generation.

The double cabin CP-10 was designed according to the tandem scheme, it is equipped with ejection seats of the class “0-0”, which ensures the safety of a two-person crew throughout the entire speed range and piloting heights. Due to the widespread use of modern composite materials in the airframe construction, designers managed to significantly reduce its weight and increase the service life.


On assurances of the official site of SAT CB, compared with the aircraft analogues of their CP-10, it has the following advantages:
- crew cabin provides the most comfortable working conditions;
- ease of operation due to the presence of built-in system diagnostics systems;
- The aerodynamic scheme used allows pilots to safely perform any aerobatic maneuvers.

СР-10 was designed and built by the Modern Aviation Technologies Design Bureau (SAT Design Bureau) - a private company that was previously engaged in repairing and upgrading the existing fleet of Czech training aircraft L-39 Albatros, which are in service with flight training institutions of the aerospace system Russia. Their release at the Czech factory Aero Vodochody was stopped back in 1999 year. It was this fact that at one time pushed specialists of SAT Design Bureau to develop an aircraft that would replace the “flying party” of Czech production.

The project manager of the CP-10 training aircraft, Maxim Mironov, notes that the development of the aircraft has become an initiative project of the design bureau. At the same time, the work immediately received the status of a decision of the Ministry of Defense of Russia “On the order of development, mass production and supply of CP-10”. In flight schools at the present time there are still at least two hundred "Albatros", which were acquired in the years of the Soviet Union. It is unlikely to update the fleet of airplanes due to the sanctions policy of the Western countries towards Russia. Therefore, there is practically no alternative to the CP-10, Mironov said.


According to its concept, the new training aircraft differs little from the Czech L-39: a minimum of onboard equipment and the most simplified design. But the main feature of the Russian development is the use of a wing with a backward sweep. For the first time in the domestic aircraft industry it was used on an experimental fighter Su-47 "Berkut". Then the designers distinguished the following features of such an aircraft: excellent aerodynamics, even at low flight speeds, which is typical of aircraft with a forward swept wing; Another advantage was the excellent lifting force, which is superior to that of all aircraft with a wing of a classic design. In addition, the deployed wing can improve the controllability of the aircraft during takeoff and landing. Significantly reduced the likelihood of departure of the aircraft in the dead tailspin. Also provides excellent centering of the fuselage. Since the power elements of the CP-10 wing are shifted towards the tail, and in the central compartment there is a space for placing ammunition.

Through the use of this aerodynamic scheme, the CP-10 actually became a reduced copy of the Su-47 with comparable flight capabilities. For this, some even nicknamed the new aircraft "Golden Eagle", by analogy with a more powerful and adult machine. At the same time, compared to the L-39 Albatros, the CP-10 already has a two or threefold advantage in aerodynamics. The characteristics of this aircraft comply with the requirements for training aircraft of the 4 + generation, and this, for example, is more technologically advanced and difficult to manufacture in the Yak-130. During the demonstration flight at the MAKS-2017, the CP-10 aircraft demonstrated a good climb rate. He also performed a turn with an angle of 80 degrees, a battle eight. Actually, he demonstrated the minimum necessary for mastering the basics of piloting a jet plane.

The CP-10 training aircraft is equipped with the AI-25 engine similar to the “Albatross”, but modified. The choice of this engine was due solely to considerations of economy. These engines have accumulated a fairly large amount, which allows them to be used in the construction of the new aircraft without much monetary costs. In CB "SAT" they emphasize that in case of concluding a contract with the Ministry of Defense, they are ready to offer the military a more advanced version of their aircraft with the AL-55 engine of NPO Saturn. This engine was specially created for installation on training machines. It can be additionally equipped with an afterburner and thrust vector control system. This solution can also make an air acrobat from the CP-10 aircraft. The installation of the AL-55 on the CP-10 has already been agreed with the engine manufacturer. In this case, the characteristics of the aircraft will grow both in flight and in economic indicators.


“The CP-10 aircraft will allow for the implementation of a three-stage training system for pilots of the Russian Aerospace Forces. Currently, it is planned that the initial flight training - taking off and landing, orientation in space - cadets of Russian flight schools will work on the new Yak-152 propeller aircraft, which is created by Irkut Corporation. Then they will gradually be transplanted to the CP-10 jet, and only then to the most difficult - the combat Yak-130, ”said Vadim Kozyulin, a professor at the Academy of Military Sciences. According to him, at present, training of pilots is actually going on these planes, which is quite difficult for them, given the adaptability of the Yak-130, and quite expensive. Two jet engines are installed on the Yak-130, for this reason the cost of one flight hour on it significantly exceeds the similar indicators for the new promising Yak-152 and CP-10 aircraft.

It is reported that the release of CP-10 aircraft will be adjusted at the Smolensk Aviation Plant. According to the head of the company, Sergey Nikolsky, the plant is currently completing the process of upgrading production facilities for the production of new training aircraft. Here we are sure that the contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense will be signed in the near future. In this case, the deliveries of the first aircraft would have begun already in 14 months. It is planned that the first batch will consist of several dozen CP-10 airplanes, and over time, the Russian Aerospace Forces will completely replace at least the Albatross 150.

In this case, all aircraft with the aim of cheaper prices will be ordered in the most simplified configuration. According to Nikolsky, this is justified from the point of view of the future use of airplanes - primary flight training and the training of cadets in the skills of piloting an aircraft equipped with a jet engine. However, the use of new aircraft may be broader. There is a possibility that the new training machines will also be supplied to the combat units to support flight training by pilots of attack aircraft, fighters and even bombers. A similar practice of using Czechoslovak L-39 aircraft existed in the flight parts of the Soviet Union.


According to the Smolensk State TV and Radio Company, a trial batch of new CP-10 aircraft is already being prepared for release at the Smolensk Aviation Plant. The new machine has already passed the factory testing stage, currently the enterprise and a private aircraft manufacturing company are preparing to sign a contract for the supply of aircraft to the Russian Aerospace Force. According to the newspaper Izvestia, the Russian Aerospace Forces can receive the first batch of new CP-10 training aircraft by the end of 2018. According to the newspaper, the aircraft will be used along with the turboprop Yak-152 and jet Yak-130.

The CP-10 aircraft was created in a normal aerodynamic configuration with a high-flying backward-swept wing, single-fin vertical tail and all-round steering stabilizer. The machine is equipped with one turbojet engine. It is planned to install AI-25ТL engines on the first aircraft, which will be later replaced by more advanced AL-55I engines. Also, the aircraft will receive a "glass cabin", created by the Ryazan instrument factory (GRPZ). The maximum take-off weight of the aircraft will be 2,7 tons. The use of the backward sweep wing will provide the aircraft with a number of advantages compared to a conventional wing: firstly, the forward swept wing can significantly increase the aircraft’s maneuverability; secondly, the wing allows to reduce the radar visibility of the machine; thirdly, this wing allows to improve aerodynamic qualities. In addition, the forward swept wing greatly simplifies the process of piloting the machine at ultra-low flight speeds. However, in flight, such a wing is experiencing much greater loads compared to an ordinary wing; it is this deficiency that is the main difficulty in developing aircraft with a backward swept wing.

According to the project, CP-10, the full development of which is to be completed in 2017, will be able to reach speeds up to 900 km / h in flight, fly to a distance of 1,5 thousands of kilometers and perform various aerobatics in the air. The designers of the new training aircraft believe that for the development of the CP-10 pilots will have enough initial flight training on an Yak-52 class aircraft. At the same time, in terms of its flight performance, the CP-10 is far superior to the outdated Czech L-39 in speed, climb, radius of turn, maneuverability and, which is of great importance, the new aircraft is lighter than the Czech counterpart and wins in price-performance ratio.


Despite the rather positive reviews in the Russian press and on the aircraft, and its prospects for entering the Armed Forces of Russia in the very near future, there are quite a few people who still doubt this project. The main doubts are related to the fact that two ordinary enthusiasts, Maxim Mironov and Sergey Yushin, began to create the plane back in 2007, which established the SAT design bureau. Doubts are related to the design capabilities of the new design bureau, for which the CP-10 was the first aircraft designed. At the same time, in SAT, CB initially took up the implementation of a complex project, choosing the forward swept wing for the new aircraft.

The need for this aircraft for the VKS of Russia is also in doubt. The modern jet training aircraft of the VKS is already there - this is the Yak-130, which has already been successfully copied twice (Italian - Aermacchi M-346 and Chinese - Hongdu JL-10). In this case, the Yak-130, if necessary, can assume the role of a light attack aircraft and is able to carry up to three tons of combat load. In addition, the Yak-130 is a twin-engine, and therefore more reliable aircraft in terms of flight safety. The failure of one of its engines does not entail the loss of the aircraft. True, this medal has a downside, the single-engine CP-10 consumes much less fuel than the Yak-130, which means it is more economical to operate.

In any case, if the CP-10 is really adopted for the VKS, it will become the third Russian jet trainer after the Czech single-engine L-39 and the Yak-130 that will replace them. Taking into account the Yak-152 training aircraft that is being actively developed at the present time, which should become the first flying party in various flying clubs and in the VKS, the so-called initial flight training aircraft, the future of the CP-10 does not look so bright. Some experts believe that the expansion of the species diversity of training aircraft is unlikely to benefit the Russian armed forces.


Another reason for doubt is the scheme itself with a backward swept wing. And these doubts are based on the historical experience accumulated at the moment in the development of such aircraft. In particular, in Russia, the work carried out by the famous Sukhoi Design Bureau with the promising sea Su-27KM and the subsequent Su-47 "Berkut" ended in nothing. The American designers have not advanced in this direction either.

The designers of the CP-10 jet training aircraft themselves hope that their offspring will interest the Russian military as a transitional aircraft between the Yak-152 and the jet Yak-130. The latter is a rather large and complex twin-engine machine for its class, the transition to which the broad mass of cadets can be associated with certain difficulties. Also in CB "SAT" believe that their plane will be able to attract attention and athletes. In any case, who will be right, the designers of the young private design bureau or skeptics, we will know in the near future.

СР-10 waiting for MAKS (photo: Evgeny Lebedev) sandrermakoff.livejournal.com













Information sources:
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201707251045-60w2.htm
https://nplus1.ru/news/2017/07/24/sr10
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other/sr10.html
http://www.kb-sat.ru
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77 comments
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  1. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 28 July 2017 07: 09
    +2
    You can recommend making another sample with a conventional wing and offer a choice of the Air Force.
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 28 July 2017 11: 33
      +8
      It's not about the wing; for a subsonic TCB, the problems of a wing with a reverse sweep are not as critical as for a combat aircraft.
      1. Evgeny Strygin
        Evgeny Strygin 28 July 2017 12: 21
        +8
        moreover, there is no problem in this mode at all. Almost one plus.
  2. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 28 July 2017 07: 53
    +6
    It is impossible to just remake a finished and tested aircraft on another wing. So to say, traditional. The aircraft will lose the benefits that such a wing gives it, and will become the same as its ancestor -L-39.
    MO has a very difficult choice. Do I need this plane in schools? There is the 130th, which still has the clear potential of a “light attack aircraft” (and wow light, 3 tons of combat load!). In the case of a mess, several hundred of these machines will add some striking power to our VKS. And this chick is hardly ...
    1. seos
      seos 28 July 2017 14: 37
      27
      In the case of a mess at a price of 1 yak-130, it is better to take 2 su-25 .... yak-130 is quite expensive, although its price can be significantly reduced in mass production.
      But even with the financing of the CP-10, I think the appearance of new vehicles, including attack aircraft and light fighters, is not far off .. Unfortunately, at the moment, it is precisely such kulibins who have the advantage in creating new equipment .... corporations and state. KB lost initiative, grew into useless ballast and can no longer effectively create new equipment. These corporations make equipment for themselves, and not for the customer .... The purpose of the corporation is grandmother, they will do everything to squeeze the client dry.
      1) An example of an BTR-80 from the time of Afghanistan, the army needs to fasten mine protection .... is it difficult to do this? no it’s not difficult, you need a V - shaped bottom + mine action seats. As a result, nothing has been done for 35 years .... they are doing all kinds of combat modules and other nonsense with the goal of shoving the customer as much as possible; as a result, 1 BTR-82a with a combat module costs as much as 10 BTR 80 with an old turret with a 14 mm machine gun.
      2) An example with armored vehicles Tiger, Lynx, etc. ... they cost from 5 m. up to 30 m.r...that is approximately like BTR-80 (a little less than 5 m.r.) or MTLB (2.5 m.R. also swims). Moreover, past the corporations, there is a small company that jumped over all the manufacturers of the Tigers, Rysy, Typhoons, Vodnikov and other rubbish, releasing the Scorpion armored car with mine protection, good armor and other balanced characteristics.
      The point is that, unlike corporations, the Kulibins make machines for people, not for enrichment ... initially the goals of the creation are different ...
      And there are many such examples ....
      1. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 28 July 2017 15: 27
        +2
        So the problem is that the Su-25 is no longer available and is unlikely to allow easy integration of the same T-220 target designation container due to old-time aircraft. This already makes the 130th a light bomber with the possibility of hitting high-precision bombs and missiles with a laser PAGSN, compensating for the lack of armor. And also the instructor's place allows you to put there an weapons operator. All the same, we need three cars, the Yak-130 device is exclusively for the Air Force, but for the citizen Yak-152 and SR-10 complement each other perfectly.
      2. alexmach
        alexmach 29 July 2017 10: 15
        0
        In the case of a mess at a price of 1 yak-130, it is better to take 2 su-25 .... yak-130 is quite expensive, although its price can be significantly reduced in mass production

        And where to get them, and even at that price?
        And another question, and in case of a mess, what new pilots do not need to be trained?
    2. Music
      Music 1 August 2017 23: 40
      0
      But this is unknown. Maybe with a more powerful engine and a single, it will become such an ultralight swivel fighter. With a pair of light guns. After all, it is not known what will happen in real life, maybe only he can fight unmanned reptiles
      1. TT62o
        TT62o 22 October 2018 11: 49
        0
        A swivel fighter is already there, but no one needs it - MG-29.
    3. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 11 November 2017 17: 45
      0
      In the case of a mess, several hundred of these machines will add some striking power to our VKS. And this chick is hardly ...
      and what will remain in the flight schools "In the event of a mess" for the training of cadets? Yak-52 (-152) and how to the Great Patriotic War after 10-15 hours of raid to the front, and then how it goes, so what? Just based on your logic, we need SR-10: as a backup TCB in case of a mess. And absolutely to the extremes: IMHO there will be no big problem to “mount” on the CP-10 the same GSh-23-2 with an ammunition box instead of the second pilot and an ultralight attack aircraft is ready. the truth is from a stormtrooper in a real battle even against the Papuans - 0, well, so too
  3. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 28 July 2017 08: 43
    +3
    An interest in the reverse sweep wing arises with a period of 30 years, then disappears again. Again, the author himself admits that the wing in this scheme is taught to be overloaded, it is obvious that this will negatively affect the resource. In general, the need for a simple and relatively cheap jet training aircraft, in my opinion, is obvious (the Yak-130 is not too cheap), but this is already a question for aviation generals. And yet - there is a corkscrew flat, there is an inverted one, but I don’t know what a “dead corkscrew” is.
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 28 July 2017 09: 09
      +1
      What do authors write all the time about saving and cheapness? You can’t save on aviation! Any deficit, any external debt is justified, because no budget can be spared on aviation.
      1. Tarasios
        Tarasios 28 July 2017 09: 30
        +4
        write about saving for many reasons. At least because, in order not to give an unnecessary reason to all kinds of liberals and overly active pacifists who are struggling to influence the opinion of the electorate. And who love to shout about unhappy hungry grandmothers, broken roads and senseless spending on the maintenance of an overly swollen and unnecessary army. Like, all external threats only seem to us;)
        1. Archon
          Archon 29 July 2017 07: 59
          +2
          It will be a super-cheap ultra-ecological aircraft of a new type, it flies on positive emotions and brings only good.
      2. venaya
        venaya 28 July 2017 12: 52
        10
        Quote: Basarev
        .. You can’t save on aviation! Any deficit, any external debt is justified, because no budget can be spared on aviation.

        Recall the epic from the T-34. During the war, half a hundred modifications of this tank were made, and so it was possible not only to improve its performance characteristics, but to significantly reduce the cost of its production, in fact thanks to this it was possible to win the whole war. So here, a decrease in the cost of production of individual aircraft samples is able to either increase their number, which is very useful, or channel funds to a neighboring area of ​​military equipment, for example, to increase the number of drones. The very reduction in the cost of production is able to increase the total combat efficiency of the army at the same economic costs. The economic capabilities of any country are not unlimited, it is advisable to use the maximum rational means available for the country's defense.
    2. Curious
      Curious 28 July 2017 11: 10
      +1
      The deaf is probably the corkscrew from which there is no way out.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 28 July 2017 19: 35
        +1
        When gridasov deals with the invention of new words, it is excusable, but if the author writes about aviation, then it would be useful for him to know at least a little materiel.
    3. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 28 July 2017 13: 49
      +2
      Quote: Aviator_
      but I don’t know what a “dead corkscrew” is.

      In-in! Most surprised by this name. A nice machine! good
    4. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 11 November 2017 18: 08
      0
      In this case, as with TVS-2, the issue is not the resource, but the ability of the domestic industry to produce a semi-finished product for the manufacture of a wing of comparable quality to foreign prepregs. Well, the aviation generals do not believe in the capabilities of our aviation industry for the simple reason that they themselves often lead the aviation industry after the demobilization. soldier
  4. pytar
    pytar 28 July 2017 09: 12
    +4
    The airplane is very beautiful, but from a close angle, the finish is terrible. Probably in production cars, everything will be much more accurate.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 28 July 2017 19: 36
      0
      Usually the opposite is the case in the series.
      1. Alekseits
        Alekseits 28 July 2017 20: 22
        +2
        It should be the other way around. The aircraft was developed in a private design bureau, which means "on the knee", with a minimum of equipment. And at the factory, just there will be stamps and other equipment, which means the finish will be better.
  5. inkass_98
    inkass_98 28 July 2017 09: 21
    +5
    Any progress in developing our own material and technical and training base in our army is positive. CP-10 is no exception, because it is moving in the right direction - avoiding imports.
    The article contains a mistake or a mistake: a Chinese aircraft, which is a clone of the Yak-130 - L15, not L-10. In addition, the Chinese car is positioned as supersonic, unlike the Yak-130.
  6. Andrewgross
    Andrewgross 28 July 2017 09: 37
    +1
    The use of a reverse sweep wing will provide the aircraft with a number of advantages compared to a conventional wing: .... the wing reduces the radar visibility of the aircraft;

    Why does TCB have low radar visibility? So that the dispatcher did not find him in the training area?
    Well, then, what does he have with an emergency leaving the cabin? Lantern sideways and legs overboard, as during the Second World War? Both YAKs have ejection seats.
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 28 July 2017 11: 36
      +1
      On the squibs most likely a flashlight.
    2. faridg7
      faridg7 28 July 2017 15: 34
      +4
      Quote: Andrewgross
      Well, then, what does he have with an emergency leaving the cabin? Lantern sideways and legs overboard, as during the Second World War?

      Be careful
      The SR-10 two-seat cockpit was designed according to the tandem scheme, it is equipped with ejection seats of the “0-0” class, which ensures the safety of a crew of two people in the entire range of speeds and altitudes.
  7. BAI
    BAI 28 July 2017 10: 07
    +1
    July 24, there was already an article about this aircraft (https://topwar.ru/121187-uchebnyy-samolet-sr-10-
    idet-na-zamenu-cheshskim-l-39.html). The crisis of the genre. Already frayed, reluctance to repeat, but have to.
    For the first time in the domestic aircraft industry it was used on the experimental Su-47 Berkut fighter. Then the designers distinguished the following features of such an aircraft: excellent aerodynamics, even at low flight speeds, which is typical for aircraft with reverse wing sweep; Another advantage was called excellent lift, which surpasses that of all aircraft with a classic wing design. In addition, the deployed wing allows you to improve the controllability of the aircraft during takeoff and landing. Significantly reduced the likelihood of the aircraft going into a deadlock. Excellent fuselage alignment is also provided.

    Why did the whole world and the same Sukhoi (spending billions) abandon the reverse sweep of the wing, and then it arose again?
    1. cast iron
      cast iron 28 July 2017 14: 07
      +6
      Abandoned such a wing only on top. At subsonic speeds, such a wing is very beneficial.
    2. Zefr
      Zefr 30 July 2017 11: 30
      0
      I understand that the reverse sweep wing can only be composite. But on a combat aircraft, a complex, one-piece wing is impractical - it cannot be repaired if damaged. And the training - anyway.
  8. koshey1977
    koshey1977 28 July 2017 10: 18
    +1
    Quote: Andrewgross
    Well, then, what does he have with an emergency leaving the cabin? Lantern sideways and legs overboard, as during the Second World War? Both YAKs have ejection seats.

    do not carefully read the article?
    The SR-10 two-seat cockpit was designed according to the tandem scheme, it is equipped with ejection seats of the “0-0” class, which ensures the safety of a crew of two people in the entire range of speeds and altitudes.
    1. Andrewgross
      Andrewgross 28 July 2017 11: 18
      +1
      Anything can write ... Look at the glass of the lantern, find the pyro cord there :(
      The lantern on the CP-10 is made on barn loops, there are no squibs, there is no pyro cord, if the pilots of the neck have to eject themselves, they will break themselves.
      1. Curious
        Curious 28 July 2017 18: 09
        +3

        Lantern SR-10. You can’t see the pyro cord or any other devices for dropping it.
        1. Curious
          Curious 28 July 2017 18: 11
          +3

          This is the lantern Yak-130. And where on it are pyrocords, squibs and other devices for resetting the flashlight. Is it possible that pilots will break their necks on it?
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 29 July 2017 13: 15
            +4
            Quote: Curious
            This is the lantern Yak-130. And where on it are pyrocords, squibs and other devices for resetting the flashlight.

            And what's that ? just there are pyrocords that destroy the flashlight, allowing you to catapult without dropping it.
            1. Curious
              Curious 29 July 2017 15: 16
              +2
              Dear Bad_gr! I deliberately posted these photos. It’s just that recently the level of both publications and comments has fallen very noticeably. Sofa authors, sofa pilots. couch military. You wrote it right.
              In general, the problem of a flashlight during bailout arose in connection with VTOL. That's when the pyro cord appeared. But not at all VTOL aircraft. On the Yak-38, ejection is carried out through the glazing of the cabin, which is destroyed by the headrest and other elements of the ejection seat. The same scheme passed to the Yak -141.
              Now up to 140 km / h, either a pyro-cord is used, as on the Yak 130, or as on the Yak 141 - through the flashlight.
              Through the glazing of the cockpit, for example, test pilot Vladimir Yakimov carried out when the Yak-141 manned by him fell onto the deck of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft-carrying cruiser and caught fire.
      2. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 29 July 2017 07: 48
        0
        Finally, the lantern is fired off or discarded entirely in such cases.
  9. koshey1977
    koshey1977 28 July 2017 10: 20
    0
    Quote: BAI
    Why did the whole world and the same Sukhoi (spending billions) abandon the reverse sweep of the wing, and then it arose again?

    as a version; combat aircraft always implies maximum load on the plane. But in the version of U.T. everything is much easier :)
    1. BAI
      BAI 28 July 2017 14: 00
      0
      I reformulate the question. "Why do all over the world do not make airplanes with reverse sweep of the wing (training, combat, passenger, transport (what else?))?
      1. Curious
        Curious 28 July 2017 14: 54
        +3
        Why not built, built.

        Saab MFI-15 Safari aircraft with reverse wing sweep.
        1. Curious
          Curious 28 July 2017 14: 59
          +3

          HFB-320 Hansa Jet Reactive Sweep Business Jet.
          In general, in order to understand the issue at the general information level and not delve into special literature that requires special knowledge, I recommend the article "On the sweep of the wing ..." on the site "Aviation, clear to everyone." (http://avia-simply.ru/o-strelovidnosti-krila/).
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 30 July 2017 11: 57
        +1
        Quote: BAI
        I will reformulate the question. "Why do all over the world do not make airplanes with reverse sweep of the wing (training, combat, passenger, transport (what else?))?

  10. Don
    Don 28 July 2017 11: 10
    +3
    Be sure to purchase this aircraft for the Moscow Region. The young design bureau and the Smolensk aircraft plant will receive support for further work, possibly in the field of civilian small aviation. The future of our aviation will be with such small private enterprises, due to the fact that huge unprofitable state corporations completely discredited themselves.
  11. pavelty
    pavelty 28 July 2017 11: 32
    +2
    I never get tired of saying that this plane is not needed. Someone strongly promotes the interests of this private design bureau, articles literally every other day. The technique of piloting an aircraft with reverse sweep, single-engine and Yak-130 is very different. The Yak-152 (if it finally goes into the series) in terms of equipment and scheme is absolutely sufficient for the transition after training to the 130th. And they don’t save on hell on saving, on training fighter pilots ...
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 30 July 2017 11: 37
      0

      What to do? (!)
    2. K-612-O
      K-612-O 1 August 2017 18: 30
      0
      And why are albatrosses still used? What will you change them with? Can I learn to start on su27 right away, from the first year, so as not to save?
    3. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 11 November 2017 18: 31
      0
      I never get tired of saying that the Yak-152 is not needed. Someone strongly promotes the interests of this design bureau, articles literally every other day. The technique of piloting a turboprop aircraft with direct sweep, single-engine and Yak-130 is very different. And to hell with the savings, let's immediately learn from the military sparks. According to hell with flying schools in general, to give the task for each combat aircraft to produce a spark in the proportion of 1, well, at least to 5: beauty and no saving.
      Ah, a young man, and also a shoulder strap with a flying clearance. Where did they get it and how much?
  12. Locksmith
    Locksmith 28 July 2017 12: 38
    0
    turboprop trainer Yak-152
    This is what a frightened piston Yak became turboprop ?! wink
  13. Ace Tambourine
    Ace Tambourine 28 July 2017 13: 24
    0
    but if he also sniffs with OVT !!!!
  14. Hog
    Hog 28 July 2017 14: 04
    0
    And how long has the Italian been a copy of the 130th? Nothing that both firms worked on the same project, but in the end they split up.
    1. pavelty
      pavelty 28 July 2017 17: 08
      +1
      Both firms? I will dispel your doubts. Yakovlev Design Bureau from the hopelessness and lack of funding in the 90s sold the entire CD to Italians, their plane is an exact copy of the Yak-130.
  15. K-50
    K-50 28 July 2017 16: 16
    +3
    secondly, the wing allows you to reduce the radar visibility of the machine;

    Chesslovo, dubious "plus" for the training aircraft. request
  16. koshey1977
    koshey1977 28 July 2017 17: 07
    +1
    Quote: Andrewgross
    Anything can write ... Look at the glass of the lantern, find the pyro cord there :(
    The lantern on the CP-10 is made on barn loops, there are no squibs, there is no pyro cord, if the pilots of the neck have to eject themselves, they will break themselves.

    I don’t care where the cord is, or the barn loops that are shooting back, I don’t have the gift to see through the metal, but in the photo I see ejected chairs.
    1. Alekseits
      Alekseits 28 July 2017 20: 30
      +1
      In this case, only pilots can be catapulted, and the seats were ALWAYS called CATAPULT, or simply catapults.
  17. Turist1996
    Turist1996 28 July 2017 17: 51
    +2
    In my opinion: the aircraft passed factory tests .. Transfer it to the state in the LII, and if they pass successfully, order a batch of 15-20 aircraft for trial operation. And then, according to reviews "from the ground", decide on the fate of the aircraft in the structure of Moscow Region. At least two birds with one stone can be "killed" - to support the plant and design bureaus and create healthy competition.
    Although the corporate solidarity of the military-industrial complex will in any way prevent this.
    And the airplane, outwardly, is beautiful!
  18. Looking for
    Looking for 28 July 2017 19: 58
    -1
    from the point of view of the aircraft manufacturer. -painted then painted, but the excess sealant from the end aileron was not cut. Sloppy work.
    1. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 11 November 2017 18: 54
      0
      As a manufacturer (with experience in the military past) to a “producer”: does this somehow affect the flight and operational characteristics of this aircraft? About the Quality Control Department, the tolerance system have you heard al no? If a hard worker has a card on the card that says "clean the rest of the sealant on the end rib of the aileron" so he will clean them, be calm, and get your hard penny. Here the issue is not a culture of design and production, but economic feasibility.

      Damn, I just noticed that the article is still old summer. I also wondered why the comments are vaguely familiar, old age is not a joy
  19. garri-lin
    garri-lin 28 July 2017 21: 20
    0
    Outwardly pretty planes. Little. Orderly. I think it is necessary to put into series and not only for the army. OSAVIOCHEM during WWII gave the country at least a little but people who knew how to fly an airplane. Retrained in parts.
    That would be a state program in large cities. A teenager wants to fly like a reliable papelats and a responsible instructor. And how one learns to fly well, so it is possible to entrust such an airplane so that your hand would gain experience. Pilots are needed not only in the army, but also in civilian life. And it is necessary to develop air transport in the country
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 30 July 2017 11: 42
      +1
      I agree with you. But do not call the Great Patriotic War the Second World War. The Soviet Union is one of the few countries participating in this war that waged the war honestly.
  20. Dekabrev
    Dekabrev 28 July 2017 23: 09
    +3
    Quote: "True, this medal has a downside, the single-engine CP-10 consumes much less fuel than the Yak-130, which means it is more economical to operate."
    He consumes less fuel, not because he has one engine, but because it is lighter and smaller than the Yak-130 and the power of this engine is less than that of two Yak-130 engines. The MIG-21 also has one engine, but this does not add much to it. And the savings in the operation of a single-engine aircraft are explained not only and not so much by fuel consumption, but by the fact that the operation of one engine is cheaper than two (parts, time, etc.). And one engine is usually cheaper than two with the same total power.
    A reduction in the price of an hour’s flight, as a rule, does not lead to deterioration, but to an improvement in training, because it allows to increase flight time. True, at the same time, anyway, you need to leave a sufficient number of flying hours on combat aircraft, so the introduction of an additional training step, even on a cheap aircraft, can lead to an increase in the total cost of training. Here you need to count. Training specialists should develop a three-stage training program, and economists should calculate how much it will cost and compare with a two-stage one. Although for cadets and pilots, it seems to me that the appearance of an additional intermediate aircraft is not bad. Maybe I'm wrong. Let the experts correct. And the reverse sweep will not affect the resource in any way. The resource is affected by the materials and the correct design calculation.
  21. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 28 July 2017 23: 32
    +4
    Some experts believe that expanding the species diversity of training aircraft is unlikely to benefit the Russian armed forces.

    No need to repeat the stupidities of "some experts." What are the difficulties of species diversity? In the difficulty of retraining from one type of TCB to another? So our VKS does not need pilots incapable of retraining or experiencing difficulties during retraining: pilots in the bulk do not fly all their lives on one type of aircraft. They must master other types, modifications otherwise they will not be able to improve their skills. In any certification, in any service profile, the first place in importance for any aviation specialist (that of a flyer, that of a techie) is the point on the number of types (modifications) of aircraft mastered (operated) during the service. Those incapable of training in the army are not needed and even harmful. Piloting skills, maintenance skills should and must be extensive.
    What else can the difficulties of "species diversity" appear? Suppliers are always afraid of expanding the range of components required in the direct operation and repair of components, spare parts and materials .. Yes, this is present, since the glider is built with widespread use of composites, including for power packs. But there is a double-edged sword: the use of composites significantly reduces the number of fasteners for monitoring the state of which considerable technical staff time is wasted, and the eye “gets blurred” over time. Composites require less and minor repairs, less often, mostly current ones. Minor repairs are usually carried out already by VRB, off-site crews or at a re-enterprise. But this problem is more from the point of view of maintainability than the logistic (supply) problem. In fact, this is where the difficulties end, since apart from the glider, everything else in this aircraft is absolutely standard: system units, aviation and instrumentation, REO, the engine, fuel and lubricants used and other special fluids and gases were not specially developed for this aircraft from scratch, but were selected from the existing nomenclature, moreover, of Russian manufacture .. So the problem of the integration of the SR-10 into the existing structure of the aerospace forces is largely contrived by the "experts" themselves, who are probably strangled by the toad, that they will not be sitting on the sawmill
  22. rubin6286
    rubin6286 29 July 2017 11: 44
    +2
    Today, the design of military equipment in any country begins with the issuance of a design bureau by the Ministry of Defense, which sets forth in full the basic tactical and technical requirements for the product, systems and equipment included in it. Then, a competition is announced among specialized design bureaus, for which prototypes must be submitted within the prescribed period, after comprehensive testing of which and comparison with foreign analogues, the best one will be selected. Then, a decision will be made on launching into mass production, determination of the parent enterprise and allied enterprises and other important organizational and technical issues.

    SR-10 is made on an initiative basis, those. the Ministry of Defense’s task for its design was not issued, a competition was not announced among specialized design bureaus. What prospects of the CP-10 can be discussed in this case, if once again everything is turned upside down in our "happy" country.

    An airplane built on enthusiasm can have certain advanced technical and constructive solutions (reverse sweep wing, advanced engines, cockpit equipment, etc.), in simple terms, “inclinations” or modernization potential, but its piloting technique can differ significantly from that what pilots fly today. Is it necessary, when there is still the L-39, there is already the Yak-130 and the Yak-152 turboprop is about to be? Maybe it’s worth remembering the MiG-AT and producing it instead of the L-39 or returning to the possibility of producing the undeservedly forgotten Yak-30 and Yak-32 at the modern base? You need to learn on what is closer to what is already in the army. We need a simple and reliable single-engine reactive TCB “flying desk” and a transitional stage to the Yak-130. He doesn’t need a nozzle with a deflected thrust vector, stealth technology, ammunition, etc., about which “sofa pilots” write. It would not have been a dream, but today there can be no talk of any mass production. We don’t have anything for this - neither free capacities, nor trained personnel, and the needs of the Moscow Region are relatively small.
    We already have two versions of the new An-2, the need for which is increasing every day and not a single one is being produced. There is talk about the Yak-141 VTOL aircraft, but what is not needed for the seafarers of the TCB?
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 1 August 2017 18: 32
      0
      It would be good as you say, in reality the opposite is true
  23. fzr1000
    fzr1000 29 July 2017 22: 17
    +2
    How many blinded people. Limited. No, to rejoice. They don’t need a new plane, you know. Sweep is not his. I am glad that this airplane will be produced. The more airplanes and airplanes that we produce, the better.
    1. rubin6286
      rubin6286 30 July 2017 15: 12
      +1
      You do not understand anything in aviation and manufacturing. A product is released when there is a demand for it. There is no demand for SR-10, but there is AN-2 (in a new way TVS-2C).
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 July 2017 16: 21
        0
        "The goods are released when there is demand" ////

        Demand appears when there is something to offer.
        Until you show, demonstrate and advertise
        Of course, there will be no demand for a quality product of its own.
        1. Curious
          Curious 30 July 2017 18: 57
          +1
          It's just that the company has no Jews. If there was, the plane would have been sold for a long time.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 30 July 2017 22: 59
            +2
            Maybe. In Israel, one kibbutz founded a buggy factory of its own design. Tried to sell to farmers. We brought a sample to America. We opened an advertising and sales company there. Americans ordered changes, increased the sizes.
            In short: they won the Pentagon tender. All collective farmers became millionaire shareholders. Real.
            Conclusion: there are always chances if the product is interesting. (The Thunderbolt heavy fighter was made by a small private company on its own initiative - it became a legend of World War II.)
        2. rubin6286
          rubin6286 30 July 2017 19: 35
          0
          Distant friend!
          It seems to me that there is no point in discussing this issue. Not a single country, much less so clever as Israel, will purchase and accept for service its Air Force aircraft from a manufacturing country that is not in mass production there. Layouts and leaflets do not provide complete information about the car. Speaking in Russian: "X .. is written on the barn, and there is firewood." To make a decision on mass production, a certain procedure applies, which I wrote about in my previous comment. It has not yet been observed. In general, in Russia small and medium-sized businesses are not averse to joining the State Defense Order as not only the main producers, but also allies, but must meet certain requirements established by the state. So far, few people succeed.
      2. fzr1000
        fzr1000 31 July 2017 22: 12
        0
        Demand gives MO. Read the article. And where does the civil An2? It is quite simple to make a drone out of it. I do not think you understand anything in production, but you will learn to read. Then you will give advice, if necessary.
        1. rubin6286
          rubin6286 31 July 2017 23: 35
          +1
          I am compelled to repeat to you again that you do not understand anything in aviation and production. Your comment is not even a polemic, but just idle chatter. The Jewish guy wrote correctly - demand creates supply. You also noticed "demand gives MO." I wrote that today this demand is minimized by the MO demand - the terms of reference and the competition. On the CP-10 there is neither one nor the other. Is there a prospect for such a machine? It seems to me that everything is clear. I cited the An-2 as an example, because today there is a real demand for this machine both inside our huge country and abroad - in Africa, Mongolia, China, Vietnam and about 35 more countries. Which of the An-2 drones? You carry some nonsense. You have seen the state of airfields in the North and beyond the Arctic Circle, in Eastern Siberia and the Far East. There, even an experienced pilot, and then not everywhere will be able to land the car. And you are a drone. Some kind of stupidity. My advice is only one, while reading articles on VO, try to “turn on your brains” and choose a topic that is closest to you in your civilian specialty. It is more pleasant and useful to deal with competent, intelligent and educated people. This will affect the quality of comments.
  24. Ilya77
    Ilya77 30 July 2017 20: 49
    +1
    I saw his flight on the "MAX", really liked it. Previously, I also somehow did not believe that this plane would fly, but it turned out to be quite good, it may happen that it is very useful.
  25. fighter angel
    fighter angel 31 July 2017 16: 19
    0
    The plane outwardly is quite nothing to itself. In flight, behaves normally, but again, according to the "SAT" pilots.
    In my opinion: check-break-in at LII, issue a verdict, and MO - until it is decided whether he needs such a machine, calculate the cost of operation. If everyone says "Yes" - an experimental batch of 3-5 cars to run in. And then, already as they prove themselves. With the engine, the guys "didn’t fly in" ... AI25 promise to replace ... Promise doesn’t mean to get married ... At the "engines" now they are also rumored and will they give them the engine they need? That is the question ...
    1. rubin6286
      rubin6286 31 July 2017 23: 55
      0
      For the machine to “come to life”, it is necessary for the company to receive a technical design assignment from the Moscow Region (funds are allocated for R&D) and win the competition. Even if the company has the necessary specialists and the appropriate base for design, comparable with the capabilities of a modern design bureau, this does not mean that the aircraft will succeed. It is necessary, for example, that the engine to the aircraft has been in production and operation for 3-5 years. AI-25 is out of date. There is no other. With the Yak-130, too, because of this, problems periodically arise. On the Yak-152, the engine is French and, under the conditions of sanctions, it is not going smoothly either. There is no motor needed - no plane.
      1. fighter angel
        fighter angel 2 August 2017 13: 58
        0
        No, not a French engine on the Yak-152, but a German 12-cylinder diesel engine, Red A03 ...
  26. Music
    Music 1 August 2017 23: 31
    0
    All the most interesting was done by a couple of lovers in an ordinary barn. Computers, for example. And even fighters.
  27. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab 5 November 2017 08: 50
    0
    A little off topic - there in the picture under the wing of the IL-76 LL what kind of turboprop engine is suspended?
    1. Andrewgross
      Andrewgross 8 November 2017 08: 55
      0
      TV7-117ST, designed for the modernized regional aircraft Il-114-300 and promising light military transport aircraft Il-112V.