Military Review

Construction of small rocket ships project 22800 "Karakurt"

66
The Russian shipbuilding industry continues to fulfill many orders for the construction of various ships. In the current plans of the military department, a special place is occupied by the construction of ships of the second and third ranks, which make it possible to carry out the maximum possible rearmament relatively quickly and at lower cost. fleet. Moreover, to achieve these goals it is planned to build a large number of such ships. So, the Navy plans to receive 18 small missile ships of the 22800 Karakurt project. The first of them should be in combat by the end of this year.


The project IRA 22800 with the code "Karakurt" is one of the most interesting domestic developments of recent years. This project proposes the construction of ships of the near-sea zone with a displacement of about 800 t and a developed armament complex, including several types of guided missiles. Depending on the assigned combat tasks, "Karakurt" will be able to work independently or as part of ship groups. In the latter case, they will be able to complement the already existing ships of various types.

The development of the Karakurt project was carried out by the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau (St. Petersburg). The basis of the new project was the groundwork for some previous ships of similar purpose. So, the new 12300 rocket and artillery boat projects and the Buyan-M MRK 21631 had a great impact on the new small rocket ships. At the same time, new ideas and solutions were used in the 22800 project aimed at obtaining certain results. In particular, it was planned to improve the seaworthiness of the new ship in comparison with the existing samples of similar classes.



The 22800 project was completed several years ago, and was already presented to the general public quite a long time ago. Nevertheless, for obvious reasons, the ship "Karakurt" is being demonstrated only in the form of advertising images and layouts. However, in the very near future the military department will have to show the lead ship of the project, the construction of which is already coming to an end.

About two years ago, in August 2015 of the year, it became known that the command of the Navy intends to order the shipbuilding industry 18 of small rocket ships. In the future, this information was confirmed several times by officials. It also soon became known that the existing fleet plans would be carried out with the help of several separate orders. The construction of the new “Karakurtov” was supposed to be entrusted to several shipbuilding enterprises at once. It is curious that at some point there was a misunderstanding, as a result of which there were reports in the press about the construction of 18 ships by just one factory.

The first order for the construction of small rocket ships of the 22800 project appeared at the end of 2015. The contractor under the new contract was the Leningrad shipbuilding plant “Pella” (St. Petersburg). According to the signed document, by the end of the decade, this enterprise will have to build 7 from 18 of the required Karakurt IRCs. To speed up the work under this contract, it was decided to lease the production capacity of other enterprises located in other regions to Pellet.

The first two ships of the 22800 project were laid in St. Petersburg on December 24 2015. Representatives of the leadership of the Ministry of Defense and the command of the Navy took part in the solemn ceremony. The first ships were named "Hurricane" and "Typhoon". Bookmark the five remaining ships of the contract was to be held in the foreseeable future.

During the ceremony of laying the first "Karakurts" several interesting statements were made. So, it was claimed that these interregional companies will be built taking into account the policy of import substitution - the engines for them were ordered to the Zvezda machine-building plant (St. Petersburg). In this context, new ships were viewed as a less expensive alternative to the 11356 project guardians, whose construction is being delayed due to the disruption of the supply of imported power plants.

The third ship ordered to the Pella enterprise has been under construction in Crimea since May of last year. For the speedy fulfillment of the entire contract, it was decided to lease to the plant a part of the production capacity of the More company (the city of Feodosia). 10 May 2016, there was a laying of the ship "Storm". 17 of March this year, Theodosia shipbuilders laid the Okhok MRC, which continues the series. Both ships are built with the active participation of specialists from St. Petersburg.

29 July and 24 December last year at the plant "Pella" were laid two more ships of the project 22800 - "Flurry" and "Storm". In the near future, the construction of the seventh ship, which, according to some data, received the name "Cyclone", should begin. The bookmark will take place at the end of 2017, at the Crimean shipbuilding enterprise. As with the rest of the series, construction will have to be completed at the end of this decade.

In early August, 2016, it became known which plant would build the following new types of MRKs. The contract for five new Karakurts was awarded to the Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M. Gorky. In the future, however, for a long time, new information about this order was not received. In some sources, however, they even managed to appear the alleged names of the ships, but accurate data on the progress of work was missing.

Later, from unofficial sources, it became known that the first ship of this order had already been laid and is being built at the Zaliv plant (Kerch). As in the case with the company "More", it is about the transfer of production capacity under the control of another plant. At this time, the tenant capacity and the performer of the order is the Zelenodolsk plant.

Not so long ago, the annual report of the Zelendolsky plant was published, which provided information on the current work on the construction of various ships, including the RTOs of the 22800 project. According to this document, last year the first two “Karakurts” were laid out with 801 and 802 serial numbers. The names of the ships, as well as the site for their construction and the success achieved so far, have not yet been specified. The timing of the construction of three other small rocket ships also remain unknown. However, previously published information suggests that they will be laid in the very near future.

The result of the fulfillment of two orders by the forces of the Pella enterprise, the Zelenodolsk plant and the production capacities transferred to them will be the emergence of 12 new small rocket ships of the Karakurt type. In the future, the shipbuilding industry will have to build and transfer to the navy another six similar ships. Which companies and when they receive such orders is not yet specified. Apparently, the next order for the 22800 project ISCs will appear only in the early twenties. Any enterprise that has already participated in the construction of such ships can receive it.

12 ships of the 22800 project have been contracted at the moment, and two thirds of this number are at different stages of construction. The rest will be laid over 2017-18's. Plans have already been announced for the completion of construction and the introduction of new RTOs into operation. According to current data and the latest statements of the responsible persons, the transfer of "Karakurts" to the fleet will begin this year. In the near future, the Navy will receive several such ships a year.

Construction of the lead ship "Hurricane" is coming to an end. In August, it is planned to launch it, and a little later it will be released for testing. According to the available schedule, the flag raising ceremony will take place in December of this year. The next year is scheduled to surrender "Typhoon". Also in the 2018 service, the first ship under construction by the Zelenodolsk plant can start. In 2019, the fleet will have to receive Storm, Flurry and, probably, one of the Zelenodol Karakurt. The last of the 12 ordered ships will join the Navy in 2020-21.

Probably, as the stocks and assembly shops become free, the Ministry of Defense will order new ships from the 22800 project. For understandable reasons, their construction will not end until the early twenties, and the full implementation of existing plans will continue until the middle of the next decade. As a result, the Russian Navy will receive all the desired 18 small rocket ships of the 22800 "Karakurt" project.

The Karakurt project proposes the construction of a small displacement ship designed to work in the near-sea zone. Such ships must act both independently and as part of the formations. In accordance with such requirements, the overall appearance of the project was formed.

The Karakurt MRC has a total length of 65 m with a maximum width of 10 m and a normal draft of 4 m. Displacement is 800 t. The hull lines are formed in accordance with the requirements of seaworthiness and the intended role of the ship in the fleet. Also used a superstructure of complex shape, formed by large-sized panels and reducing the visibility of the ship for the detection of the enemy. It is proposed to use an integrated mast, which has space for installation of four phased antenna arrays and other electronic equipment.

The Karakurt type ship receives a combined main power plant built on the basis of diesel and electric engines. With its help, allegedly, it will be possible to get the maximum speed at the level of 30 nodes. Cruising range at economic speeds - up to 2500 nautical miles. Autonomy will be 15 days.

According to well-known data, the 22800 project's IRCs should be equipped with the Sigma-E ICSE and the Track-E AMKOI. It is suggested to monitor the situation and find air or surface targets with the help of several types of radar stations, including Mineral-M.

Main shock weapons "Karakurtov" will become guided missiles P-800 "Onyx" or "Caliber". To launch them, the ship is equipped with a universal vertical launcher 3С-14 with eight missile cells. As in the case of other domestic small rocket ships of new types, the installation is located in the superstructure, behind the bridge. In this case, the installation with two rows of cells, four in each, is placed across the hull, and not along, as on other ships. The 3-14 units may include anti-ship or cruise missiles to attack ground targets. The exact composition of the ammunition and the number of missiles of various types depends on the task.

In the bow of the ship, before the superstructure, there is a place for installation of a tower artillery installation. The 22800 project provides for the use of 76 or 100 mm guns. The unit has remote controlled drives and automatic recharge.

The first two ships "Karakurt" equipped with anti-aircraft missile and artillery complexes "Palash". Last fall, it became known that some changes were made to the project, which will be implemented during the construction of serial ships. The third in the series of MRK “Storm” will become the first carrier of the Pantsir-M missile-gun complex. All subsequent ships of the series will receive just such a weapon, while the head and first serial will remain with the "Palashi". By now, the Pantsir-M ZRPK has passed the necessary tests and has proved itself well, which made it possible to introduce it into the existing project.

The emergence of a significant number of small rocket ships of the new type should have a noticeable impact on the state and prospects of the Russian navy. Due to the small size of the new "Karakurt" do not impose special requirements for shipbuilding enterprises and therefore can be built on several existing plants. In particular, this is one of the reasons that the Navy can receive 5 ships in just the 7-12 years, and the construction of the remaining 6 "hulls" will be completed by the middle of the next decade.

Despite its small size, ships of the 22800 project may show high combat capability. They can operate both in the near sea zone and on some rivers, which expands the areas of their possible use. The presence of the Onyx and Caliber missiles, in turn, ensures a high impact potential. With the help of such weapons, new IRAs will be able to attack ground and surface targets at long distances. The potential of small rocket ships equipped with modern weapons has already been demonstrated in practice several times.

An important advantage of "Karakurts" is their large number. It will allow to transfer such ships to all the main fleets, making it possible to use them in all strategic areas. In addition, each of the operational-strategic associations will receive several ships. The large number, availability in all fleets and high impact potential make the new 22800 project IRAs a promising and interesting military and political tool.

Until the mid-twenties, the Russian Navy plans to receive 18 new small rocket ships. To date, two thirds of these plans have been framed in the form of contracts, and a little less than half of the desired ships are already at different stages of construction. In the coming months, the head ship "Hurricane" will be put to the test. At the end of the year it is planned to take in the combat composition of the Navy. This event will be the first in a long and important program.


On the materials of the sites:
https://russian.rt.com/
http://flotprom.ru/
http://tass.ru/
https://tvzvezda.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
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Photos used:
Bmpd.livejournal.com
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  1. Kenxnumx
    Kenxnumx 18 July 2017 06: 46 New
    0
    Something he reminds Zemvolt
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 18 July 2017 07: 18 New
      +5
      Quote: Ken71
      Something he reminds Zemvolt

      laughing Right! Probably worth wink
      1. novel66
        novel66 18 July 2017 09: 40 New
        +4
        1/10 "berka", therefore they need ten times more, and not just 18. Hello hi Isn't it time for kragging?
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 July 2017 09: 45 New
          +2
          Roma is healthy! I see you changed the flag?
          Quote: novel xnumx
          Isn't it time for kragging?

          laughing only from there Roma burned, swam and dived fellow
          1. novel66
            novel66 18 July 2017 09: 47 New
            +3
            not we choose the flag, but he us!
  2. magirus401
    magirus401 18 July 2017 07: 10 New
    +3
    Not an article, but diarrhea, something that completely crushed the site by the authors, only Ryabovs and Kaptsovs
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 18 July 2017 07: 15 New
    +3
    Small, fast and deadly ship. Increased seaworthiness and a range of 2500 miles. The lack of anti-submarine weapons from the word at all ... It seems to me that this ship is for attack, and not for defense at all.
    Such a missile boat is an overgrowth ...
    1. venik
      venik 18 July 2017 08: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It seems to me that this ship is for attack, and not for defense at all

      =====
      Well, in general, it is generally accepted that the best way of defense is precisely the ATTACK (or the threat of an attack) ....
    2. novel66
      novel66 18 July 2017 09: 41 New
      +4
      will scare aircraft carriers off the coast
    3. Dart2027
      Dart2027 18 July 2017 21: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It seems to me that this ship is for attack, and not for defense at all.

      The OTRK team is 24 missiles in a salvo. That is, 18 Karakurt are 6 brigades.
  4. Großer feldherr
    Großer feldherr 18 July 2017 07: 46 New
    +5
    The concept of a mosquito fleet in all its glory.
  5. HEATHER
    HEATHER 18 July 2017 07: 48 New
    +3
    species of spiders from the genus of black widows. Br-Dangerous boat!
  6. Observer2014
    Observer2014 18 July 2017 07: 53 New
    +6
    It’s a great idea to put long-range cruise missiles on a maneuverable vessel capable of passing through the network of channels and rivers of the Russian Federation. It can also protect itself from air attacks.
  7. cobalt
    cobalt 18 July 2017 07: 53 New
    +8
    It’s difficult to push the frigate into a displacement of 800 tons, in fact, Karakurt will be replaced in the Navy by MRK of the Ovod type. For good, such ships need 10 pieces for each fleet. And for a plane, you can build on the same base or on another project small anti-submarine ships to replace existing ones, which are already quite worn out.
    1. venik
      venik 18 July 2017 08: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: cobalt
      And for a flat, you can build on the same base or on another project small anti-submarine ships to replace existing ones, which are already quite worn out.

      ========
      Well, it seems that they are already designed. There was something in the Nevsky Bastion ......
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 18 July 2017 09: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: cobalt
      And for a flat, you can build on the same base or on another project small anti-submarine ships to replace existing ones, which are already quite worn out.

      Why fence a garden if corvettes of Project 20385 are already being built? Completely successful IPC + MRK hi
      1. Seriomilander
        Seriomilander 18 July 2017 10: 51 New
        +1
        You are right, I wrote above that the only true replacement for the MPK and MRK, and missile boats are the corvettes 20380-85-86, and Karakurt is a necessary measure, but no one denies this. And the real place of "Karakurt", namely, the replacement of boats. So, at least 10 corvettes should appear on each fleet (for an equivalent replacement).
        So far: 4 built, 2 launched, 7 under construction, 13 are waiting for bookmarks, 14 in the distant plans.
        1. Seaman77
          Seaman77 18 July 2017 17: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: Seriomilander
          the only true replacement for the MPK and RTOs, and missile boats, is the corvettes 20380-85-86, and Karakurt is a necessary measure, but no one denies this. And the real place of "Karakurt", namely, the replacement of boats

          Here another factor plays a role. Pay attention to who is building - Pella and Zelenodolsk. The former have no experience in building large ships (the same 20380), while the latter have no opportunity. It seems that this compromise project is to saturate the fleet with at least some ships, and factories - work.
          1. Seriomilander
            Seriomilander 18 July 2017 22: 01 New
            +2
            I do not deny this factor, but I think the loading of the shipyards arises precisely because of the impossibility to saturate the fleet with corvettes, and not vice versa. This project is due to hopelessness, or as you called it a compromise, here I agree with you.
            Only one thing is clear - Russia needs to maintain a fleet, at least some, but for this it needs to build ships, otherwise the fleet with ships of the 1980s will not last long.
    3. Seriomilander
      Seriomilander 18 July 2017 10: 41 New
      +2
      The situation is the same in all four fleets of the MRK and IPC:
      BF - 6 MPK and 4 MRK.
      Black Sea Fleet - 6 MPK and 4 RTOs.
      SF - 6 MPK and 3 MRK.
      Pacific Fleet - 8 MPK and 4 MRK.
      The plans were to replace all small ships and boats with corvettes, but the speed of construction made its own adjustments. Now it turns out that only small ships will try to replace corvettes, for example, Pacific Fleet will receive 6pcs 20380 and 4pcs 20385, SF 10pcs 20386, BF only 6pcs 20380, there weren’t even enough plans for the Black Sea Fleet, apparently they will be in the queue for project 20386.

      Now, actually about the “Karakurt”, it seems to me that they are called upon to replace not missile defense systems, but missile boats. Here is my opinion personally.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 18 July 2017 11: 24 New
        +4
        Quote: Seriomilander
        Now, actually about the “Karakurt”, it seems to me that they are called upon to replace not missile defense systems, but missile boats.

        In the USSR, the theory of replacing missile boats with RTOs has existed since the mid-50s. The creation of a medium-tonnage ship with 6 anti-ship missiles, a near-field air defense system and an artillery mount was to replace missile boats completely. The Doomsday War has confirmed this theory. When the Union in the ranks there were 48 RTOs 1234 and 12341, which remains to be seen from your data! Missile boats have become obsolete.
        1. Seriomilander
          Seriomilander 18 July 2017 14: 55 New
          0
          In Russia, in the early 2000s, they decided to improve this theory and replace missile boats immediately with multipurpose ships of the near sea zone, that is, corvettes. They even created a suitable ship - project 20380, and then went even further and laid it down! Well then you know this story. So, I completely agree with you - missile boats are a past that only "third countries" can use.
      2. gallville
        gallville 20 July 2017 11: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Seriomilander
        The plans were to replace all small ships and boats with corvettes, but the speed of construction made its own adjustments.

        Initially, they wanted to put 6 units. corvettes on each of the fleets. But about MrK plans in general. Therefore, it can be regarded from two sides: either as you say about the complete rejection of the MRK, or about the separateness of the MRK as a project.
        Quote: Seriomilander
        there weren’t even enough plans for the Black Sea Fleet

        At the Black Sea Fleet, it was a question of building 11356, which at a price in principle is 20380. As a result of adjustments for the Black Sea Fleet, they decided to build 22160 corvettes. A sort of compromise unified with 11356 if the entire armament package is stuck.
        Quote: Seriomilander
        Now, actually about the “Karakurt”, it seems to me that they are called upon to replace not missile defense systems, but missile boats. Here is my opinion personally.

        This is first and foremost. On the other hand, having a caliber in hand, they can work on underwater targets, provided that target designation is issued. For example, from a corvette, anti-submarine helicopters and coastal aviation.
        In addition, the Karakuts, like the Buyans, are nothing more than a detour of the agreement.
        Quote: Seriomilander
        Pacific Fleet will receive 6pcs 20380 and 4pcs 20385, SF 10pcs 20386, BF only 6pcs 20380,

        According to Pacific Fleet - 20380 carry uranium. For Pacific Fleet, this is no longer an armament.
        SF - 10 pcs. Most likely, God forbid, they will build 6 pcs. In addition, 20386 is no longer a corvette in terms of displacement and power plant (gas turbine); it is already a frigate, a kind of modern 1135 (exactly like that).
        BF - 6 pcs. 20380. And there is more and more inappropriately. From the word at all. Drive alien apl and being in the zone of operation of coastal air forces and missile systems of various types. I won’t be surprised if Perfect and Loud end up there. The ceiling that can be placed on the Baltic Fleet is a couple of frigates to strengthen the Mediterranean squadron.
        Hence the appearance of the Karakuts.
        For Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet, a picture of 6 units is obtained. corvettes and 6 karakuts. Plus on the Black Sea Fleet 6 units. karakuts in order to return the buoys to the Caspian Sea, and to drive them into the middle-earth already, and not a ship of the class the river sea.
        1. Seriomilander
          Seriomilander 20 July 2017 14: 46 New
          0
          About the complete rejection of the MRK, or about the separateness of the MRK as a project.
          I think we are talking about the rejection of RTOs, I argue with the number of threats from the NK and submarines. In service with more than 50 of the largest fleets in the world are:
          Submarines (1000+) - 442 pcs.
          Destroyers (6000+) - 198 pcs.
          Frigates (2500+) - 383 pcs.
          The total displacement is indicated in parentheses.
          All that is less than 2500 tons is intended more for defense than for attack, but there are not many such ships either, for example, the Corvettes 1500+ are only 83 units.
          I will give specific examples (PL - FR): Sweden 5-0, Vietnam 6-2, Norway 6-5, Netherlands 4-6, Spain 7-11, Greece 12-14, Turkey 13-16, Germany 6-9.
          Therefore, for example, Egypt and Morocco generally ordered the FREMM frigate in the PLO variant.
          There weren’t even enough plans for the Black Sea Fleet
          When the 20380 corvettes were being built and even when they began to enter the Black Sea Fleet, it was difficult to renew the fleet because of Ukraine, so before moving to the Novorossiysk naval base, the contract for the 20380 for the Black Sea Fleet was not even considered, plus organizing a temporary stay (coastal infrastructure) did not make sense. And if you could wait with the replacement of the MPK and MRK, then the ships 11356 are just a cry of the soul, they would have to be agreed upon, and the date of launching (beginning of 2014) speaks for itself, since by 2016 they should have delivered the naval base in Novorossiysk (or maybe earlier).
          For example, from a corvette, anti-submarine helicopters and coastal aviation.
          Well, "Karakurt" does not have its own helicopter, the corvette’s ability to detect the pl is not unlimited, he would destroy the pl himself, not to give out target designations. I think about coastal aviation the same thing, if the IL-38 detects a sub, then he himself will destroy it. So, shooting at a submarine with external target designation is a utopia for Karakurt.
          About INF.
          Corvette 20385-86, frigate 22350, frigate 11356, and actually the Buyans, a more balanced detour. This story about the "bypass" applies only to the Buyans and only to the Caspian Sea, from there an excellent view of the Middle East and Asia, there are no submarines, and indeed no threats at all, so there they become a formidable weapon. And what will the availability of "Karakurt" in the Northern Fleet or BF take into account the Iskander and ships, which are described above?
          By fleets
          About Pacific Fleet - 20380 - 6 pcs. And 20385 - 4 pcs. So that the calibers will be without the "Karakurt". The question is different, the Pacific Fleet needs frigates and destroyers with calibers, and 6 MRKs will not fix the situation, think about it, 6 by 8 is 48! Think 48 missiles will solve something? They won’t be able to use the sub, on surface ships, taking into account the weak radar and proximity, for example, the Japanese fleet, the Caliber will not have a big advantage, there are also a lot of doubts about ground targets.
          About the Federation Council - well, you and I are not working at headquarters (at least I), so that we use what we have, and in our case these are plans. The plans are 10 pieces.
          Now the classes of corvettes and frigates are blurred, but 20386 is still a ship of the near sea zone, and the armament did not go far from corvettes 20380-85.
          About the BF - With this fleet composition, 6 corvettes is quite enough, but, in any case, most of the ships there are at a very advanced age and in the future more corvettes may be required. And the “Karakurt”, that is, “Buyans” there, again, from hopelessness, than to fight with Norway and Sweden, who have 11 pl and 5 frigates for two. In a situation where the underwater threat is at least equivalent, I see no reason not to build universal ships.
          They are unlikely to leave Karakurt at the BF; they are for 3 fleets: Northern Fleet, Pacific Fleet, and Black Sea Fleet. For the BF, most likely, “Buyans”, by the way, they are now there.
          For Pacific Fleet and SF it turns out 10 corvettes in the plans, as it will be unknown in reality.
          About to drive to the middle earth.
          “Karakurt” is “Buyan” for a deployment other than the Caspian, where there is virtually no threat, hence the appearance of air defense. This is an RTO and it is not suitable for long-distance travel, for this there will be as many as 12 new ships at the Black Sea Fleet (projects 11356 and 22160)! So, if the “Karakurts” will “drive”, then only from complete hopelessness.
          1. gallville
            gallville 20 July 2017 17: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Seriomilander
            I think we are talking about the rejection of RTOs, I argue with the number of threats from the NK and submarines. In service with more than 50 of the largest fleets in the world

            Just the opposite. Creating MRK is just the same attempt to make up for the numerical lag.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            When the 20380 corvettes were being built and even when they began to enter the Black Sea Fleet, it was difficult to renew the fleet because of Ukraine, so before moving to the Novorossiysk naval base, the contract for the 20380 for the Black Sea Fleet was not even considered, plus organizing a temporary stay (coastal infrastructure) did not make sense. And if you could wait with the replacement of the MPK and MRK, then the ships 11356 are just a cry of the soul, they would have to be agreed upon, and the date of launching (beginning of 2014) speaks for itself, since by 2016 they should have delivered the naval base in Novorossiysk (or maybe earlier).

            Yes, because by and large the Black Sea Fleet is more than 11356 and not necessary. And most likely they could agree. Because Ukrainian engines were bought. Another thing is that global politics intervened in these issues. Question 20380 is not very relevant for the Black Sea Fleet. There is nobody there to catch under water. And the composition of the IPC there is more than impressive. Perhaps in the future, the IIC and MRK would be replaced by 20380. But this is not a priority for the Russian Navy as a whole.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            Well, "Karakurt" does not have its own helicopter, the corvette’s ability to detect the pl is not unlimited, he would destroy the pl himself, not to give out target designations. I think about coastal aviation the same thing, if the IL-38 detects a sub, then he himself will destroy it. So, shooting at a submarine with external target designation is a utopia for Karakurt.

            This is a built-in function in caliber. Nothing more.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            And what will the availability of "Karakurt" in the Northern Fleet or BF take into account the Iskander and ships, which are described above?

            Missile threat from a small carrier. Which will be difficult to detect.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            About Pacific Fleet - 20380 - 6 pcs. And 20385 - 4 pcs. So that the calibers will be without the "Karakurt". The question is different, the Pacific Fleet needs frigates and destroyers with calibers, and 6 MRKs will not fix the situation, think about it, 6 by 8 is 48! Think 48 missiles will solve something?

            Yes, everything is simple. This is nothing less, but the defense of the Navy bases in the Pacific.
            No one will carry out offensive operations with them. Of course, for 3 bases, 6 corvettes and 6 mrc is not enough. The numbers of 12 units look more real. But for now, the old MPK and MRK are still alive. Although they are not next to the possibilities with new ones. Hence the quantitative reduction.

            Quote: Seriomilander
            The plans are 10 pieces.
            Now the classes of corvettes and frigates are blurred, but 20386 is still a ship of the near sea zone, and the armament did not go far from corvettes 20380-85.

            So the fact is that it has not gone far from classical frigates. The problem is an unbalanced approach. In 20386 they mold 2 gtu of 22350 unified with gtu. And the armament unified with it is the same. The difference in the amount of PU and the displacement of hell is a couple thousand tons. The logical question is created: "on xp * on the goat bayan?" Or is it really so sorry for metal? Corvette is a workhorse with a diesel engine and air defense exclusively in case of self-defense. Why make a mini destroyer out of it, and 22350 is essentially an undernourished destroyer, it’s not clear to anyone.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            With this fleet composition, 6 corvettes is quite enough, but, in any case, most of the ships there are at a very advanced age and in the future more corvettes may be required.

            What for? What are they going to patrol there?
            Quote: Seriomilander
            And the “Karakurt”, that is, “Buyans” there, again, from hopelessness, than to fight with Norway and Sweden, who have 11 pl and 5 frigates for two.

            Karakuts / buoys there are more for political showdowns. Rather than real need. There is nothing special to share with Norway and Sweden. And even in the event of a conflict, the Federation Council will oppose them. BF is purely a patrol function and a flag display. The problem with the current composition of the Baltic Fleet is that 20380 are equipped with uranium. As a result, they have a very mediocre strike function both on the pl and the coast (if art weapons are generally worth considering as such).
            Quote: Seriomilander
            For the BF, most likely, “Buyans”, by the way, they are now there.

            Well this is a political moment. Associated in part with imperfection 20380.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            For Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet, 10 corvettes in the plans are obtained, as it will be unknown in reality.

            As far as GPV-2020 is concerned, it seems like 6 for each fleet. Objectively, you need at least 9, and for normal functionality, all 12. This is not counting the same number of karakuts. This will at least make it possible to replace the current composition.
            If comparing with the Pacific Fleet then:
            - 1234 and 1241 are 23 pieces;
            - 1124 more 8 pcs.
            Total 31 units
            Replacement for 2038X and 12 units of Karakut. just make up 24 pcs. Which quantitatively approaches the original.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            for this, there will be as many as 12 new ships at the Black Sea Fleet (projects 11356 and 22160)! So, if the “Karakurts” will “drive”, then only from complete hopelessness.

            So while they are building these karakuts will already be in operation. So they will be chased. Instead of buoys.
            Quote: Seriomilander
            Pacific Fleet needs frigates and destroyers with calibers

            Yes. Only here are the valuable GTA put on corvettes.
            1. Seriomilander
              Seriomilander 20 July 2017 18: 47 New
              0
              Just the opposite. Creating MRK is just the same attempt to make up for the numerical lag.
              Quite right, this applies to the situation that has developed today. And I wrote about the situation that developed in the early 2000s, when it was decided to replace small ships (MPK and MRK) with one ship of the near sea zone, that is, a corvette, and I argued why.
              There is nobody there to catch under water. And the composition of the IPC there is more than impressive.
              Turkey has 13 square meters right at its side, while the Black Sea Fleet has as many as 6 MPCs. For the rest, I agree that the main problem at the Black Sea Fleet is trips to the "Mediterranean"
              Missile threat from a small carrier. Which will be difficult to detect.
              I think for Japanese destroyers such a threat is exaggerated, they are worse than DBK and aviation, I don’t think that RTOs will detect a modern destroyer earlier and be able to destroy it alone.
              "on xp * on the goat button accordion?"
              As you know, a weapon is an expensive toy, during the construction of a ship this makes itself felt, for example, the cost of 20380 and 20385 is significantly different "only" because of 8 missiles. 20386 is the concept of the future of our Navy. If 20380 supplemented 22350, twice as much in terms of displacement and armament, then 20386 should supplement 22350M, which is much larger than the “usual” 22350, and even three differences are planned in weapons (8 Uranus versus 24 calibers, 16 shortened Redoubts versus 32-48 full). 20386 should have the maximum number of unified nodes with 22350M, and a propulsion installation including (domestic engines with 20380 can barely cope, and embarrassment has happened with 20385), because the installation on 20380 has no prospect of an increase in displacement, and the closest one only from 22350 , hence the increase in displacement apparently ...
              What for? What are they going to patrol there?
              The question is interesting, the answer is simple - Kaliningrad!
              BF is purely a patrol function and a flag display.
              You contradict yourself. Firstly, the journey from the Northern Fleet to the Baltic Fleet does not take a couple of hours at all, and secondly it is not always possible or so simple to transfer ships from fleet to fleet, therefore each fleet should be minimally self-sufficient for conducting military operations independently. And thirdly, corvettes with uranium are enough to demonstrate the flag, and to fight with the Baltic powers, taking into account aviation and DBK, well, it’s not enough to “shoot” granites there.
              If comparing with the Pacific Fleet then:
              At the Pacific Fleet there are 12 small ships: 8 "1124M", 4 "12341". And the boats "12411" - 11 pcs. Total 23 units, not 31. And 12 corvettes will come to replace 10 RTOs and IPC, and 11 boats will replace 6 Karakurt if the series is not extended.
              So while they are building these karakuts will already be in operation.
              The first two ships of project 22160 - "Vasily Bykov" and "Dmitry Rogachev" - will be delivered only at the beginning and at the end of 2018, respectively
              Admiral Makarov is a frigate, the third patrol ship of project 11356, which is planned to be adopted by the Russian Black Sea Fleet in 2017.
              Total by the end of 2018: 8 units, 6 frigates and 2 patrolmen (5 of them are new). Moscow did not count.
              I’ll already integrate 5 frigates (2 new ones) Smart, Okay, Inquisitive, Admiral Grigorovich and Admiral Essen. 1 frigate and 2 patrolmen in 2018 Vasily Bykov, Dmitry Rogachev, Admiral Makarov.
              And “Karakurt” will be let down by the “head” only by the end of the year. So, without him there will be someone to run to the "middle earth"
              Only here are the valuable GTA put on corvettes.
              They are valuable now, and there will be “priceless” ones coming out, the 22350 frigates weren’t planned as much (15 pieces were planned for a start), and now it’s not at all clear what will happen after the Isakov 22350M even on paper. In this situation, the order of 10 corvettes with the same engines will increase the number of engines for production, and therefore reduce their cost, in my opinion the right decision.
              1. gallville
                gallville 20 July 2017 23: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Seriomilander
                Turkey has 13 square meters right at its side, while the Black Sea Fleet has as many as 6 MPCs. For the rest, I agree that the main problem at the Black Sea Fleet is trips to the "Mediterranean"

                Well, not only are the IPCs unified. Unforgettable plans in 6 frigates. Which did not come true.
                Then everything would be enough.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                I think for Japanese destroyers such a threat is exaggerated, they are worse than DBK and aviation, I don’t think that RTOs would sooner discover a modern destroyer and be able to destroy it alone.

                And he doesn’t need to do this. Coast aviation should be discovered for him. Together with his PCR, their PCR will fly including He must act in conjunction with the coastal forces.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                then 20386 should complement the 22350M, which is much larger than the “usual” 22350, and there is already a triple difference in weapons (8 Uranus versus 24 calibers, 16 shortened Redoubts versus 32-48 full). 20386 should have the maximum number of unified nodes with 22350M, and a propulsion installation including (domestic engines with 20380 can barely cope, and embarrassment has happened with 20385), because the installation on 20380 has no prospect of an increase in displacement, and the closest one only from 22350 , hence the increase in displacement apparently ...

                Those. in fact, we have frigate 22350 a couple thousand tons less. So isn’t it easier to build them right away? Again, why such a weapon to the corvette? As a CD carrier, this is still the case. Like a radar for patrolling too. Detection beyond Sony km. ship groupings is not his task. Who should discover above I wrote.
                Therefore, just the same, in terms of economics and armament composition, Karakut is a corvette, already 20380 pulls closer to the frigate.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                The question is interesting, the answer is simple - Kaliningrad!

                Well, so few corvettes?
                Quote: Seriomilander
                You contradict yourself. Firstly, the journey from the Northern Fleet to the Baltic Fleet does not take a couple of hours at all, and secondly it is not always possible or so simple to transfer ships from fleet to fleet, therefore each fleet should be minimally self-sufficient for conducting military operations independently.

                This is because the fleet is now in this guise. With the introduction of the caliber, they will bomb in the Baltic directly from the home port.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                And thirdly, corvettes with uranium are enough to demonstrate the flag, and to fight with the Baltic powers, taking into account aviation and DBK, well, it’s not enough to “shoot” granites there.

                Well, it's more than that.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                At the Pacific Fleet 12 small ships:

                There I counted incorrectly. I agree 23.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                And 12 corvettes will come to replace 10 RTOs and IPCs, and 11 boats will replace 6 Karakurt if the series is not extended.

                Well, it is doubtful to me that there are 10 corvettes. As I understand it, they want 2 "MPC" for each base, i.e. to put a corvette. Accordingly, the rest will be replaced by karakuts. Those. get 12 units. MRK and 6 corvettes.
                And the numbers look more real.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                And “Karakurt” will be let down by the “head” only by the end of the year. So, without him there will be someone to run to the "middle earth"

                I think they’ll drive them all the same. 5 frigates from them 2 very tired and very modest opportunities. In addition, the BPC 1155 does not carry shock weapons, they are exclusively anti-submarine. Those. on the sea and land they cannot work. Accordingly, the buoys compensated for this together with the cruisers. Since the 956s that were supposed to work together with 1155 are already incapable of long trips.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                They are valuable now, and will be “priceless” on the series, there are not so many planned frigates 22350 (they planned 15pcs to start)

                Yes, at least 15 built. That is the essence of what frigates should receive first of all.
                Quote: Seriomilander
                and now it’s not at all clear what will happen after Isakov’s 22350M even on paper.

                There is generally an interesting situation. 22350m is essentially a well-fed 22350. I.e. in fact, everything is the same except for the amount of pu and water displacement. The type of gtu by and large gave birth to one. Those. what we have? And we have an analog of Henri Berke with 4 gtu. 22350m in size is 2 times larger. There are no other thoughts.
                And in the light of 4 GTU for 1 destroyer and plans for 6 pcs. we have an impressive number of pre-order turbines in the fleet. What gto corvettes are there?
                1. Seriomilander
                  Seriomilander 21 July 2017 01: 11 New
                  0
                  And he does not need to do this.
                  In your opinion, the MRC is not needed at all, the aircraft will do all the work for it. And for me, everything will fall on his own shoulders, Georgia is proof of that.
                  So isn’t it easier to build them right away?
                  It’s never easier, since it’s many times more expensive. Throw back the cost of the ship itself and count the armament, 16 "calibers" several times more expensive than 8 "uraniums", the same with the "redoubt". Otherwise, you are just "deaf", in your understanding, ships are not needed at all, only aviation. I have already explained everything to you, but you write the same thing. Tell me the plane that will give the target designation and how many such aircraft are in service.
                  Well, so few corvettes?
                  And how many corvettes are needed to find and destroy the square? Torpedoes at 100km do not fly ...
                  With the introduction of the caliber, they will bomb in the Baltic directly from the home port.
                  Let me guess, and airplanes will give target designation. Well, 1000km doesn’t bother you. This is already funny.
                  And the numbers look more real.
                  The numbers may look like anything, but the Navy’s plans for construction are quite specific, and these plans point to 26 corvettes, 10 for the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, 6 for the Baltic Fleet. And everything is known for Karakurt - 18pcs. Everything else is a game of imagination.
                  Accordingly, the buoys compensated for this
                  Well, accompaniment of the BOD “Buyanami” is not at all worth it, especially since:
                  Rastrub-B is a universal missile system. It is used for arming the BOD of project 1155 with the aim of destroying submarines (submarines), as well as combat surface ships (NK) and transports of a potential enemy.
                  What gto corvettes are there?
                  Now the need for engines is 6 units. If 22350 is laid down next year, then he will need 2 engines no earlier than 2020. The same thing with 20386, the bookmark will be in 2018, this is another plus two engines by 2020. Total already a maximum of 10 engines in 3 years, once laid "Daring" means expect to receive such an amount on time.
                  PS I lost interest in further correspondence with you ...
                  1. gallville
                    gallville 21 July 2017 08: 19 New
                    0
                    Quote: Seriomilander
                    In your opinion, the MRC is not needed at all, the aircraft will do all the work for it. And for me, everything will fall on his own shoulders, Georgia is proof of that.

                    1. Corvette is only one of the instruments of defense of its waters.
                    2. In Georgia, the MRK sank / damaged 2 ships, the rest were drowned in the port by the SV reconnaissance group. This is an example of the interaction of military branches.
                    Quote: Seriomilander
                    16 "calibers" at times more expensive than 8 "uraniums", the same with the "redoubt".

                    Karakuts carry calibers. Nothing prevents 20380 from putting them.
                    Quote: Seriomilander
                    And how many corvettes are needed to find and destroy the square? Torpedoes at 100km do not fly ...

                    At 50km fly.
                    Quote: Seriomilander
                    Rastrub-B is a universal missile system. It is used for arming the BOD of project 1155 with the aim of destroying submarines (submarines), as well as combat surface ships (NK) and transports of a potential enemy.

                    Well, here you impressed me =) Already 90 km. 8 pu range to deal with NK is very powerful. Especially a ship of 7 thousand tons
                    Quote: Seriomilander
                    PS I lost interest in further correspondence with you ...

                    Mutual desire. Your lack of understanding of the tasks of the corvette reduces the correspondence to the construction of the frigate-sized one and the armament of the cruiser. As a result, to the applause of people like you, the fleet will receive a couple of wunderwaffles in 10 years and bare ports along the coast. Best the enemy of the good.
  8. tchoni
    tchoni 18 July 2017 08: 29 New
    +3
    In this context, the new ships were considered as a less expensive alternative to the 11356 watchdogs, whose construction was delayed due to a disruption in the supply of imported power plants.
    Somehow it is not clear. How can RTOs in this way replace the BOD (in essence)? Glavnon, for which 11356 was developed, is airspace control and anti-submarine warfare away from bases. Compared to 22350, project 11356 may look pale, but nevertheless it is a universal ship with decent autonomy. How can his RTOs replace - at least kill me, I’ll get rid of it.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 18 July 2017 08: 55 New
      +4
      Quote: tchoni
      Somehow it is not clear. How can RTOs in this way replace the BOD (in essence)?

      Well, why is it incomprehensible then? The author acts on the principle of "But do not we swing at William, do you understand, our Shakespeare?" Those. if you write that "new ships can be considered as a less expensive alternative to corvettas pr.20385", you see, it sounds like it is not solid! But the replacement of pr. 11356 is yes! At the same time, in order not to completely shock the audience, the author does not write “frigate”, about the old man “guard” - as it looks more modest laughing
      1. novel66
        novel66 18 July 2017 09: 44 New
        +2
        here, this whole new terminology serves to make sailors fool their heads on land
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 July 2017 10: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: novel xnumx
          here, this whole new terminology serves to make sailors fool their heads on land

          laughing Roma, fooling heads overland - this is a favorite pastime of sailors, it would seem an ordinary rope. and in the fleet it has about 15 items bully
          1. novel66
            novel66 18 July 2017 10: 28 New
            +3
            from Sobolev I remember only a six-row tench
      2. rudolff
        rudolff 18 July 2017 11: 02 New
        +2
        And this, as in that joke where the cow is talking to the ladybug:
        - Listen, well, I'm a cow, you're a cow, and why are you so small?
        - Or maybe I was sick!
        “Cow”, this is the presence of eight CDs on board here and there, but “hurt”, it is “no money, but you stay there.” If RTOs go instead of corvettes, frigates for the commonplace reason of an empty wallet, poorly poorly, this can still be understood. Not to fat, to be alive. But if we begin to rivet the IPC as well, in order to compensate for the lack of a full-fledged PLO at the RTOs, then this will be utter nonsense. Due to our stinginess, we will pay twice. It remains to add only the MZK (anti-aircraft) and there will be a full Ales. Well, what, we already know how to build MAKI.
        Minimum displacement and balanced in armament, this is a corvette. They need to saturate the fleet, and not these nanocrafts. The benefit of the projects is a whole wagon.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 July 2017 11: 41 New
          +4
          hi Hello my friend!!!
          Quote: rudolff
          But if we begin to rivet the IPC as well, in order to compensate for the lack of a full-fledged PLO at the RTOs, then this will be utter nonsense

          Rudolph, you gave the country coal! Even uncles with spiders on their shoulders didn’t think of such a thing. laughing ...... or thought of ??? wassat ...... God forbid!
          I really hope that the 22800 project is a necessary measure, which is probably only why such a small series.
          1. rudolff
            rudolff 18 July 2017 12: 39 New
            +1
            Hello Serge! Well, not only thought of, but already vigorously discussing how to stick it into a new rearmament program. Take a look at your leisure, last year’s Diamond IPC, pr. 23420. Will be with Karakurt: Tamara and I are walking in pairs!
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 18 July 2017 13: 06 New
              +3
              Quote: rudolff
              Take a look at your leisure, last year's Diamond IPC, pr. 23420.

              In my opinion, about two years ago, the Indians announced a tender for the IPC of the near zone, Almaz did not win the tender, and now it is conducting sponsor marketing research! I hope the time of Dmitry Fedorovich has sunk into oblivion and no one will do open lobbying for the military-industrial complex. Although how many "Diamond" in the envelope put FIG knows it wassat
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 July 2017 10: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: tchoni
      Somehow it is not clear. How can RTOs in this way replace the BOD (in essence)?

      This is a rehash of Caruso Rabinovich. smile
      The original was a statement by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy:
      Small missile ships of project 11356 with cruise missiles will come to replace 22800, we plan to lay the lead ship in 2016.

      Being taken out of context, it really looks strange - RTOs to replace full-fledged RF.
      If you do not take the phrase out of context, then the commander in chief said that the fleet should not be left without new ships at the time of the development of ship gas-turbine engines by domestic plants. Therefore, it was decided to build ships for which there are engines. And the only GEM available to us is diesel. That is, since industry in the near future will not be able to complete the second three 11356, then they will have to order "Karakurt" in return.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 18 July 2017 10: 41 New
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Therefore, it was decided to build ships for which there are engines. And the only GEM available to us is diesel. That is, since industry in the near future will not be able to complete the second three 11356, then they will have to order "Karakurt" in return.

        Then, it would be logical to create two more modifications of the project in the form of an MPK (with a helicopter and an undergrowth GAS) and an air defense ship (with whatever “redoubt”). And then somehow it turns pale. At the end, the endpoint of an RTO is estimated at 3-5 yards of evergreen, and the frigate at 15.
    3. Dart2027
      Dart2027 18 July 2017 21: 31 New
      0
      Quote: tchoni
      How can RTOs in this way replace the BOD (in essence)?

      Yes, he does not replace him.
      It’s just that when the construction of frigates was slowed down due to the engines, they decided to finance the construction of RTOs in order to get at least something. It is clear that 18 frigates are much cooler, but alas ... However, now things are getting better with them.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 19 July 2017 21: 12 New
        +1
        The only question is why RTOs and not 20380 (5)? 20380 also did not arrange something?
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 19 July 2017 21: 44 New
          0
          Quote: alexmach
          why RTOs and not 20380

          I do not know. Maybe because those who build these RTOs cannot build corvettes.
  9. kapitan281271
    kapitan281271 18 July 2017 09: 12 New
    0
    On the same site more than once the question was discussed that the “Shell” does not work well enough for highly maneuverable targets, the “TOR” showed itself much better in this, but if so, it is more appropriate to adapt the “TOR” small offshore platforms to protect it from RCC I would like to hear a competent opinion for earlier thanks!
  10. NUR
    NUR 18 July 2017 09: 34 New
    +1
    Good ships of the near zone, powerful weapons for such a displacement, on the Caspian Sea, in general, an ideal ship, there are no submarines, and you can use it on the river.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 19 July 2017 21: 14 New
      +1
      Far from perfect. In the Caspian Sea and on the Volga, Buyans with a water-jet engine feel much better. This one from Buyano actually differs in slightly better seaworthiness - was originally built for the sea.
  11. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 18 July 2017 09: 47 New
    +2
    To rivet a lot of attack ships with negligible air defense and only in the near zone and the lack of effective PLO .... Hm ...., but do not you think that absolutely the same thing already happened at the beginning of the Second World War? when the "paints" riveted many shock torpedo boats and artillery ships without bothering to equip them with effective air defense and anti-aircraft defense? as a result, the fleet was practically defeated in no way showing itself ...?
    1. kapitan281271
      kapitan281271 18 July 2017 09: 54 New
      0
      I don’t know about the anti-aircraft defense, but maybe you’re right with the anti-aircraft defense
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 18 July 2017 10: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Rivet many strike ships with negligible air defense and only in the near zone and the lack of effective PLO

      Well, don’t you, my friend, not know that each pasudin has its own destiny? A missile brigade (for example, as part of the Black Sea Fleet) in the amount of 10 “Karakurts”, without leaving the Russian Federation’s guides, will be able to keep a handful of countries in the south and east of Europe. ZRPK for such a small ship is enough, and PLO - this is not for MRK, it is for other comrades yes
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Do not you think that absolutely the same thing was already at the beginning of the Second World War? when the "paints" riveted many shock torpedo boats and artillery ships without bothering to equip them with effective air defense and anti-aircraft defense?

      Well, dear, this was not only the “paints” that suffered, but also the sisters from Home Fleet, and the masters from USN, can you name the pre-war fleet that meets your requirements?
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      as a result, the fleet was practically defeated in no way showing itself ...?
      The most interesting thing is that you perfectly know the true reason why the fleet did not show itself hi good luck in PR! good
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 18 July 2017 10: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Serg65
        Well do not you, my friend, do not know what, each pasudin has its purpose?

        The letter "K" is requested here. smile
        Quote: Serg65
        Well, dear, this was not only the “paints” that suffered, but also the sisters from Home Fleet, and the masters from USN, can you name the pre-war fleet that meets your requirements?

        EMNIP, normal air defense was perhaps the Dutch.
        The Yankees in the interwar period of 10 years brought to mind the "Chicago piano" - did not finish. As a result, they met a war with 5 "/ 25 and 38, 12,7-mm" Browning "and four hundred" Erlikon "the whole fleet.
        Limes hit rogue and, having designed a good MZA, killed her with a cartridge of the beginning of the century.
        As a result, both of them bowed to gnomes and trolls Swiss and Swedes.
        The Germans made a racially loyal replacement for the Erlikon, inferior to him. And until 1943, the ships were armed with 37 mm analogues of our "forty-five" - ​​semi-automatic 37 mm guns. And the story of the Bismarck’s armament with a pair of land commandorates instead of the regular "swinging pots" .... smile
        The Japanese ... no, they had a good SZA. But they generally scored on heavy MZA, remaining with the only 25 mm caliber. And then they also aggravated the situation. starting to increase the number of trunks without a corresponding increase in the SUAO MZA pleporium: set 40x4 or 40x2 - put the director for him).
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 July 2017 12: 50 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The letter "K" asks here

          Alexei. the right word, we are antilegent people! what I don’t even know such words ?!
          hi Приветствуем!
    3. Dart2027
      Dart2027 18 July 2017 21: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      that absolutely the same thing was already at the beginning of the Second World War

      Then there was no medium-range missile defense system. RTO itself is a circumvention of the agreement on their limitation - Iskander is designed to fire up to 500 km (at least officially), but Karakurt - at 1500. Actually, that’s why there was so much noise after the first shooting with Caliber - the very fact of the possibility of hitting targets at a great distance .
  12. Ingvar0401
    Ingvar0401 18 July 2017 10: 38 New
    +2
    One could follow the Danes' path - to build modular standard Flex-300 corvettes. Depending on the task, it can be quickly converted to either shock, or PLO, or air defense.
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 18 July 2017 10: 43 New
      +2
      Their specifics within the framework of the Allied Naval Forces during the Cold War was, first, the mine capacity of the entire fleet, to seal the strait, and then other tasks. It may be that no special qualifications are necessary for the laying of mines, but for the PLO, preparation is needed, i.e. specialists are needed for the removable module.
  13. andrew xnumx
    andrew xnumx 18 July 2017 11: 15 New
    +3
    Good article. We need as many carriers of cruise missiles as possible. The entire fleet, including existing ships, should be armed to the limit with cruise missiles, as well as aviation. Enhanced production of cruise missiles should be our top priority. It is in this area that we must achieve absolute superiority. In this case, the range of missiles should constantly increase.
  14. Santa bear
    Santa bear 18 July 2017 12: 32 New
    0
    The names of the boats are what: Cyclone, Flurry, Storm, Hurricane ... Directly all weather phenomena have been sorted out) there is still not enough Snowstorm, Storm, Tornado)
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 18 July 2017 14: 41 New
      +3
      Quote: Santa Bear
      The names of the boats are what: Cyclone, Flurry, Storm, Hurricane ... We’ve sorted out all weather phenomena

      This is a tribute to naval traditions, during the Second World War there was a division of small sea hunters with the same names, called the bad weather division. After the war, the 166th Novorossiysk Red Banner Division of small missile ships bore the same name.
      1. pellets
        pellets 18 July 2017 15: 43 New
        0
        On Amur PSKRam the name "bad weather" was transferred from the Amur Flotilla, which was disbanded in the late 90s.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 18 July 2017 17: 29 New
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        This is a tribute to naval traditions, during the Second World War there was a division of small sea hunters with the same names, called the bad weather division.

        Now the TFR is saddened. Why did you unclassify them like that ... sad
        “Bad weather divisions” are watchtowers pr. 2, 4 and 39 (“Hurricane” and others). And the "midges" had practically no names - only numbers.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 18 July 2017 21: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          gatekeepers pr. 2, 4 and 39 ("Hurricane" and others)

          In fact, "Hurricanes" were from 460 to 620 tons of displacement.
          Karakurt with its 800 tons will be more serious.
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 19 July 2017 06: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Now the TFR is saddened. Why did you unclassify them so

          what I apologize and apologize hi
          Quote: Alexey RA
          “Bad weather divisions” are watchtowers pr. 2, 4 and 39 (“Hurricane” and others).

          This mainly concerns the KBF, at KChF there were only 2 TFRs of the second project (Storm and Flurry). Old Black Sea Moremans voiced me a version about midges, but maybe they gave out wishful thinking, I won’t argue bully
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 July 2017 10: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Serg65
            This mainly concerns the KBF, at KChF there were only 2 TFRs of the second project (Storm and Flurry).

            So it’s off the Baltic Sea. The Bad Weather Division is the ICR MSRM division: Hurricane, Typhoon, Tornado, Cyclone, Thunderstorm, Whirlwind. And then this name spread to other divisions, which included TFRs of the same type - fortunately, the names of all three projects were "weather".
  15. faiver
    faiver 18 July 2017 21: 47 New
    +2
    They are building a nekhai - in a kulak economy, there is also a bug of cattle ... since there is no other way, but all of Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, Japan and South Korea will be at gunpoint ....
  16. Music
    Music 18 July 2017 22: 28 New
    0
    A great ship for guarding rigs and a bridge. And drive away Ukrainian armored boats. Or even drown. 100 mm is it
  17. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 23 July 2017 18: 59 New
    0
    FSUE SZ "More" assembles the second building.
  18. Sasha_Sar
    Sasha_Sar 24 July 2017 15: 27 New
    +1
    At the end of the last century, each fleet had one MRC brigade, which consisted of 2-3 divisions. The brigade went to the division of the Republic of Kazakhstan (12 DCBF) at the KSF in the Kola Flotilla. If 6-9 units appear on each fleet, it will not be bad. So God forbid!