Three years from the day of the crash of the Malaysian Boeing

133
Today marks three years since the sad event that occurred in the sky over the Donbas. We are talking about the crash of a Malaysian airliner, performing a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur 17 July 2014. The airliner was shot down, killing 298 people, including 15 crew members.

Three years have passed since the crash, and almost the same continues the investigation carried out by the so-called “Netherlands commission”. Moreover, the investigation is being conducted against the background of the fact that local residents still find fragments of an airliner with registration number MH17 in the fields near Hrabovo. And the very “display” (reconstruction) of the aircraft from its individual fragments in the Netherlands was carried out at best by 50%.



Three years from the day of the crash of the Malaysian Boeing


Recall that for several days after the crash of a passenger plane in the Donetsk region, Ukrainian artillery struck at its crash site, effectively preventing the investigation team and international experts from working. As a result, parts of the aircraft, as well as the bodies of the dead passengers, received additional damage from the fragments of shells and mines used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which led not only to delaying the investigation, but also actually to trying to cover the tracks.

The Russian manufacturer of air defense systems during this time carried out full-scale tests of the impact of the Buk system missile on a passenger plane and presented accurate data that a strike on an aircraft could be inflicted from the area of ​​deployment of air defense systems of the Ukrainian armed forces. The Dutch experts decided to completely ignore the data obtained during the experiments, which in itself raises many questions.

Also unanswered are questions addressed to the Ukrainian side immediately after the crash. In particular:
Why there is no data of interrogation of the Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers?
Where is the transcript data of the flight recorders?
Why was the plane launched above the epicenter of fierce fighting by the mentioned Dnepropetrovsk controllers?
Where is the data on movements by July 17, 2017 of Ukrainian Buk and Ukrainian air defense systems aviation?


Against this background, in Ukraine and in the West they continue to talk about the need to create a tribunal, which will be carried out according to the laws of the Netherlands. So maybe first the answers to the questions posed, and then the talk about the tribunal? Although this will clearly violate the concept exploited by the West, according to which the main thing is to appoint the perpetrators, and then adjust the pseudo-evidence base with crumbling arguments.
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133 comments
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  1. +3
    July 17 2017
    Soon we will find out ... The culprits have already been appointed and a “trial” will take place soon, where the militia and Russia will be convicted by 99,99999%. Which is called upon to recognize the decision of this "trial". But I'm wondering why? Will our specialists give a word there to announce their arguments? Or, as has already been customary, guilt has been proved on the basis of information constituting a "state secret", which would be glad, but could not publish ...
    1. +18
      July 17 2017
      The board was led by Ukrainian dispatchers, it was shot down on the territory of Ukraine, it did not provide its data on the negotiations of air traffic controllers and the reasons for the change of level, so Ukraine is not high with the Dutch and understands how the Boeing got into the combat zone, everything else is trying to pull a condom onto the globe. ... that's the whole conversation ...
      1. +4
        July 17 2017
        Quote: Black
        The board was led by Ukrainian dispatchers, shot down on the territory of Ukraine, she did not provide her data on the negotiations of air traffic controllers and the reasons for the change of level

        And Russia will be guilty of everything ... These are the twists and turns of European logic.
        1. +6
          July 17 2017
          And Russia will be guilty of everything ... These are the twists and turns of European logic.

          That is yes. The farther from the tragedy, the "more reliable" the barking of Western Tolerasts laughing
      2. +14
        July 17 2017
        Quote: Black
        The board was led by Ukrainian dispatchers, shot down on the territory of Ukraine, she did not provide her data on the negotiations of air traffic controllers and the reasons for the change of level

        And will not provide. There are two options. Either the dispatcher Anna Petrenko is hiding by the special services of Ukraine (or of what other countries), or she has long been dead. Both options have a right to exist. Although certain questions arise, why eliminate the most important, most important witness? In both cases, this makes no sense. If we take on faith the version about the participation of Russia and the DPR in the plane crash МН17. If Petrenko (namely, she drove this side) had reliable evidence of the interference of non-Ukrainian air defense systems in the Boeing’s flight, then it would be natural that she wouldn’t leave the television screens, from the pages of newspapers and magazines - for these, almost a year and a half . WORLDWIDE. Would the Ukrainian authorities not use such a trump card? It is ridiculous. But we observe the opposite. Anna Petrenko disappeared immediately - the day after the disaster. She went on vacation ... After the disaster - on vacation. After the most scandalous emergency in her career, she was on vacation. After the death of hundreds of people - immediately on vacation. Isn't it strange? And after this "go on vacation" - her trace is completely lost. She is not there. Without exaggeration, we can say that Petrenko is looking for the whole journalistic world. So far, unsuccessfully. Very actively engaged in the search for the missing Ukrainian dispatcher, political analyst Marina Yudenich. According to her, all Petrenko’s data on social networks was destroyed professionally. Not without the participation of state Ukrainian authorities and special services. What is happening? Let us recall the plane crash of the Dassault Falcon 50 EX, in Vnukovo, when Christophe de Margerie died. Immediately all key premises were sealed and all those who were at that time in the line of duty were arrested. First of all, dispatchers. Until the circumstances of the disaster are fully clarified. But not in Ukraine.
        In general, my only opinion is that Anna Petrenko will never be found again. hi
        1. +3
          July 17 2017
          Yes, this dispatcher has long eaten fish in the Dnieper.
        2. +3
          July 17 2017
          Well, the Ukrainian dispatchers, but the Americans said that they have satellite shots of the launch of the TO rocket. And where are they? Why did this story quickly fade away? Maybe it’s because the pictures are there, but they prove different ...
          1. +5
            July 17 2017
            Quote: svp67
            but the Americans said that they have satellite shots of the launch of the TO rocket. And where are they?

            Sergei! hi There are pictures of course. Yes But they are secret. request
            Quote: svp67
            Why did this story quickly fade away? Maybe it’s because the pictures are there, but they prove different ...

            And here it is, most likely the truth. Which they customize for three years under their American patterns. Yes hiPy Sy.Sergey Russia also has pictures from its satellites, but they are not taken into account, although they are not secret and it is announced that Russia will not hide anything. hi
            1. +3
              July 17 2017
              hi
              Quote: vovanpain
              But they are secret

              Who would doubt it ...
              Quote: vovanpain
              Py Sy.Sergey Russia also has pictures from its satellites, but they are not taken into account

              Unfortunately, our satellites photo-video and reconnaissance reconnaissance at that moment were absent over that place, which I am not surprised. There are few of them and their flight schedule is known.
              1. +4
                July 17 2017
                Quote: svp67
                Unfortunately, our satellites photo-video and reconnaissance reconnaissance at that moment were absent over that place, which I am not surprised. There are few of them and their flight schedule is known.

                Sergey in this matter, I’m stumping, but ours also monitored the territory of Ukraine and provided a monitoring map, the mattresses were rejected, I’ll repeat my colleague, I’m full of this stump.
                Quote: svp67
                And Russia will be guilty of everything ... These are the twists of European logic

                Yes, it will be so. Sincerely. hi
                1. +4
                  July 17 2017
                  Quote: vovanpain
                  but ours also monitored the territory of Ukraine and provided a monitoring map

                  In this case, by GROUND means. We have there quite powerful means. But the West does not believe their testimonies, since they cannot "read" them ... But I’m interested. Okay, you can’t read ours, but Ukrainians use similar algorithms, you read them ... And what did the tracking centers of the Kharkov center show? What did the data from the Kupol radar of Ukrainian air defense, which was very close, near Kramatorsk, show?
          2. +7
            July 17 2017
            It seems to usveterans on the site that it was written: if us does not provide the claimed pictures, then they do not confirm the official position of white house. By and large, in the West no one needs an objective result, so they will push the trial. This is the basis of the entire policy of the West in relation to Russia. I hope Russia will be ready, this is important.
            Dispatcher sorry, pretty ..
          3. +1
            July 17 2017
            Quote: svp67
            Americans stated that they have satellite shots of the launch of a TOY rocket.

            Just the Americans said that on that very day, at that very hour, all the American satellite systems over Donetsk were on “prevention”.
            1. +2
              July 18 2017
              Quote: Orionvit
              Just the Americans said that on that very day, at that very hour, all the American satellite systems over Donetsk were on “prevention”.

              Yeah, just before that, back in 2014, US Secretary of State John Kerry publicly promised to provide satellite imagery, supposedly "revealing the truth about the disaster."
          4. +1
            July 17 2017
            American photos of launching a Russian rocket are so secret - that even Russians cannot look at launching their rocket - in what
        3. +3
          July 17 2017
          Quote: vovanpain
          she wouldn’t leave the TV screens, from the pages of newspapers and magazines - during these, almost one and a half years.

          Today-THREE year.
      3. 0
        July 17 2017
        In general, ICAO recommendations for closing civilian airspace over war zones are not binding. Syria, some African countries under the same conditions. Did not resort to such measures. Therefore, in court this fact for Ukraine will not be taken into account
      4. 0
        February 12 2018
        > she did not provide her data on the negotiations of air traffic controllers and the reasons for the change of flight

        don't lie
      5. 0
        July 23 2018
        Quote: Black
        The board was led by Ukrainian dispatchers, shot down on the territory of Ukraine, she did not provide her data on the negotiations of air traffic controllers and the reasons for the change of level

        were right
        shot down right
        negotiation data-transmitted
        The reasons for the change of level are in the report and the network.
    2. +1
      July 17 2017
      It is a priori impossible to completely ignore Russian data, because the final conclusions will be incorrect. The next stop is a dead end. hi
    3. +3
      July 17 2017
      I allow myself to disagree with you, such a murky story that we will NEVER find out the truth ..................
      1. +2
        July 17 2017
        Quote: MPK105
        I allow myself to disagree with you, such a murky story that we will NEVER find out the truth .....

        Most likely it is .... we won’t know .... for this we need a whole series of incredible events in Ukraine and the West ...
        1. 0
          July 17 2017
          Or in Russia?
          1. 0
            July 18 2017
            Or in Kazakhstan?
      2. +7
        July 17 2017
        we will NEVER find out the truth ..................


        And what else do you really need? Ukrainians shot down an airplane on the instructions of the United States in order to discredit Russia in the Donbass, otherwise the investigation would be carried out with thorough scrupulousness.
    4. +7
      July 17 2017
      The plane was still crashing, and Russia was already convicted
    5. +5
      July 17 2017
      Evidence that the plane was shot down by Ukraine was provided by the Russian side, plus all kinds of delays and not providing data from the ukronazists, it’s clear who the real culprit is, the position of the Netherlands who are engaged in this matter as complete ignoramuses is simply ignoring the data from Russia. Involuntarily you ask if Holland was involved in this murder of people, who in every possible way does not want to achieve the truth. And why Malaysia is not in her affairs here that it does not concern.
    6. +2
      July 17 2017
      I would also add the question:
      Where are the records of the negotiations between the Dnepropetrovsk controllers and the pilots of the airliner.
      1. +3
        July 17 2017
        In addition, in July 2014 there was a photograph of a BUK without a rocket moving along the Dnepropetrovsk Highway in Krasnoarmeysk (there is also a banner with a local telephone).
        1. +1
          July 17 2017
          Are you talking about this? So there is not a damn thing on the banner But you can see the trolleybus wires, but there are no trolleybuses in Krasnoarmeysk
          1. +5
            July 17 2017
            Quote: Mimoprohodil
            Are you talking about it?

            About the fact that Ukrovermaht shot down BOING, what is not clear to you?
          2. +1
            July 17 2017
            And why did you decide that these are trellibus wires? These are power line wires thrown across the road. For your information, the trolleybus has two wires in a line, but the power line has one. "Specialist"!
          3. 0
            July 18 2017
            Turbid images have been able to process for a long time. In the background, buildings are visible, the road to the right goes on the rise to the bridge.
      2. 0
        July 23 2018
        Quote: Lord of the Sith
        I would also add the question:
        Where are the records of the negotiations between the Dnepropetrovsk controllers and the pilots of the airliner.

        STILL published in 2014.
        It coincides with the Rostov and black boxes. Yes there is nothing interesting.

        People that you ask the standard question so often, where are the negotiations? They are everywhere online, in Rostov they were also in black boxes ..
        It makes no sense to hide them; they are duplicated everywhere!
    7. 0
      July 17 2017
      Quote: svp67
      Will our specialists give a word there to announce their arguments?

      For this, the UN Security Council is convening and Russian experts voice their arguments there. Instead of their timid shows at briefings in the Russian Federation on YouTube and 2,5 years of wrangling with Samantha Power.
      Let him try after this “the most Dutch court in the world” to ignore some of this.
      1. 0
        July 17 2017
        Even better, these arguments are not voiced there, but by diplomats, who pay money for this. There are not many specialists left in the Russian Federation.
  2. +2
    July 17 2017
    Here my eloquence simply burned out. I forgot about this date, and the opinion on the whole article is so simple ......



    Not really if the so-called "world community" is dead, which behaves so impudently and deceitfully!?!?!?!

    Well, someday their double standards should bite their tail! Because the level of injustice simply tends to infinity!
    1. +4
      July 17 2017
      Dezinto
      Not really if the so-called "world community" is dead, which behaves so impudently and deceitfully!?!?!?!

      ... I agree with your emotions, because the "world community" did not give a damn about all permissible norms of morality and law ... there is such a community from the canine family - jackals - which, taking advantage of their multiplicity in an attack, can gobble up almost anyone ... I suppose we need to put ourselves in such a way that these "families" run around us on the tenth road and run to the nearest abyss and jump into it ourselves ... but how contrast yourself - a question ...
  3. +1
    July 17 2017
    As a result, they will say that the cunning and vile Donetsk ravens did this, brazenly flying in a flock to the flight altitude of the aircraft and pecking it.
  4. +4
    July 17 2017
    ... there are four questions in italics, you can and still add
    But where is the data from the Merikatos satellites, which were hung at 3 pieces per square meter in that area?
    and it becomes clear - WHO IS FAVORABLE! angry
  5. +13
    July 17 2017
    We published an article in the Scientific Bulletin of MGTU GA with the rector of this University, where we showed gross violations by Ukraine of the rules for investigating this disaster. I personally had to investigate aircraft accidents, so they wrote professionally. After the disaster, the Jew Kolomoisky immediately sent the dispatcher (girl) on vacation, who drove this airliner along the highway. Flights over Ukraine were not stopped. The United States needs all this to make the world as bad and chaotic as possible. I have the honor.
    1. +6
      July 17 2017
      Do not give a link? He also happened to participate in investigations and blunders in this are visible to the naked eye. Sad ..
  6. 0
    July 17 2017
    Buk himself does not shoot. The beech is controlled by a radar, not a simple radar but of a very serious class, it wasn’t close to it, so who could give commands? Only the radar station in our territory, she calmly got there, and to hell to be honest. The question is, how did it happen that, according to our instructions, one of the two passenger aircraft in the air at that height was shot down? Either stupid people are sitting on our radar (which I don’t believe in), or the indication was quite certain. Why does no one ask this question to anyone? They don’t ask us. In Ukraine, this is the main issue, among those who understand this matter. On this site, I think there are also people who understand. Question to them ...
    1. +2
      July 17 2017
      Quote: Shurale
      It wasn’t standing next to it, so who could give commands? Only radar station in our territory

      That is, they "didn’t stand by" (what else needs to be proved), and we have "Only the radar station located on our territory"?)) Why "only"? Why not in the west? Or throughout Ukraine there is not a single radar capable of illuminating a victim plane?
      1. +1
        July 17 2017
        If you read the results of an international investigation, you would know that all experts agree that Buk was launched by the rebels, in those days Ukrainian aviation constantly bombed the DPR and the rebels shot down their planes. After several shot down, aviation reached heights unattainable for the Needles. After which Beech was ferried. His movement was completely monitored both there and back. By the way, our experts could not object to anything either regarding the launch site or the aforementioned Buk. Consequently, our radar directed the missile. The question remains open. How could our professionals not understand that the plane is on the radar, and in height and along the corridor is passenger? By the way, the fragments of the striking elements completely prove that it was our rocket, the shape of a butterfly. Ukraine does not have such missiles, they were made after the collapse of the union. What other proof do you need?
        1. +3
          July 17 2017
          Quote: Shurale
          After which Beech was ferried. His movement was completely monitored both there and back.

          According to photos from social networks! This is irrefutable and one hundred percent proof!
          Quote: Shurale
          By the way, our experts could not object to anything either regarding the launch site or the aforementioned Buk. Consequently, our radar directed the missile.

          The conclusion is in the style of this pseudo-commission. Since you are silent and do not make excuses, it is you.
          Quote: Shurale
          By the way, the fragments of the striking elements completely prove that it was our rocket, the shape of a butterfly.

          But this is not a task, on the wreckage of the Boeing’s fuselage there’s more than one butterfly-shaped hole, and the fragments were allegedly removed from the pilots.
          1. 0
            July 17 2017
            A big request, before making statements, read the investigation materials:
            1. +3
              July 17 2017
              "A big request, before making statements, read the materials of the investigation."
              You really, really poorly studied the materials of the Almaz-Antey experiment and succumbed to the propaganda of the so-called "consequences". Otherwise, you would ask yourself questions:
              1. Where is the left engine and left wing, which accounted for the lion's share of defeat?
              2. Why, with the proposed “investigation” course of the rocket, there are completely no traces of damage by cabin elements, although there should be hundreds of them?
              3. What are these lonely rocket elements that are “stuck” in the aluminum of the cabin at an expansion speed of about 2000 m / s?
              Before “being ashamed of your leadership” you need to think with your head and decide in advance which side your leadership is on.
              1. 0
                July 17 2017
                Do you think these questions will help to ignore the facts? You’ve been washed very badly if you ignore obvious things, and you think that this solves something. Everyone decides for himself what to believe in him, Faith is a terrible thing. Invincible. Only here the facts from this do not disappear.

                "1. Where is the left engine and left wing, which accounted for the lion's share of defeat?"

                Fragmentation of fragments occurs perpendicular to the movement of the rocket, their main part, the concept of the defeat of this missile is based on it, it explodes flying near the target. So the lion's share of the fragments fell on the cab, who told you that this is not so?

                "2. Why, with the proposed" consequence "of the missile course, there are completely no traces of damage by cabin elements, although there should be hundreds of them?"

                Hundreds will be fragments of missile striking elements, the cabin is mainly soft materials, aluminum plastic. I don’t understand why hundreds of cockpit elements of the cockpit struck there, a strange question, to be honest.

                "3. What are these lonely rocket elements that are" stuck "in the aluminum of the cabin at an expansion speed of the order of 2000 m / s?"

                Elements of a rocket are its parts of its body and plumage. During the explosion, fragments develop such speed, soft parts such as the hull and plumage do not develop such speed, but they are also decent, and those that flew towards the fuselage from the explosion were imprinted on it and stuck there. Then they were able to easily identify. If you pull yourself up and see the results of the investigation, then you can easily be convinced of the adequate understanding of the cases by the investigation. Just read the results before you post other people's words, have your opinion.
                1. +3
                  July 18 2017
                  You don’t talk to us, pretending to be misunderstood "strange questions." No one but you is talking about getting stuck in a duralumin rocket elements. You yourself show by your answers that you have fallen into the trap of propaganda. With the opposite course of the rocket voiced by you and the perpendicular expansion of the fragments, the left wing and engine would receive a minimum number of damaging elements, but the cabin would be literally riddled with them, becoming like a netting net. And we see relatively whole fragments of the cabin and hidden elements of the wing and engine (which, by a strange coincidence, that (we are all sure of this) you can easily explain by your training manuals, have not been found at the crash site ;-). What is the conclusion from this? Correctly. The course of the rocket was completely different. Not oncoming, but perpendicular oncoming. Therefore, the cockpit is intact, and the wing and engine turned into a mesh netting, which your investigation carefully hides. But in this case, the rocket was fired from another place. Simple estimates, even on the map, strangely coincide with the deployment location of the dill divisions of Bukov. And if at the same time one wonders: “Why did the Ukrainians deploy Buki once, if the militias have no aircraft”? Were you going to fight with Russian aviation? Then these positions were chosen completely meaningless, attack aircraft would fly from other courses. Honest answers to these questions (and you only want honest answers, no matter how unpleasant they are for you, right?) Clearly indicate those who shot down the Boeing. And the hypothetical firing system, transported from Siberia for half an hour to the war zone and captured by thousands of ukrov against the background of trolleybus wires in a city where there was no trolleybus spawning, looks too unreliable. More like dill attempts to hide their SDA.
          2. 0
            July 17 2017
            According to photos from social networks! This is irrefutable and one hundred percent proof!
            And when they condemn in Russian courts for reposts and photos in social networks, then this is normal
            1. 0
              July 17 2017
              First, understand what reposts are condemning.
          3. 0
            July 17 2017
            And on the fuselage, and there should be no butterfly-shaped holes. What, a shard - a milling machine that neatly cuts a hole? Rather there will be a ragged hole at a fragment speed of 2 km / s. The word "supposedly" is inappropriate here. Because fragments can really be found only in luggage or human bodies.
            1. 0
              July 18 2017
              The higher the speed of the object, the less destruction of the object that it pierces, if the object is elastic, aluminum is quite elastic, the butterfly prints on it are clearly visible, if you read the case materials, and there are not bare words there are a lot of photos and examinations, then this heresy is not would be carried.

              My uncle has an injury, full-fledged cartridge cases with a powder charge, but instead of a bullet, a paralon ball, very soft and finely porous, who saw knows what I'm talking about, so the speed of this ball when it leaves the barrel is very high, it breaks an empty can at a distance of three meters from under the beer so that the can is not even moving, and the hole is neat round, although the ball is very soft like a feather.
              1. 0
                July 18 2017
                Quote: Shurale
                My uncle has an injury
                1. +1
                  July 18 2017
                  Further? Continue the thought. Or is that all you can do? Copy text?
                  1. +2
                    July 18 2017
                    Further obvious.
                    1. 0
                      July 18 2017
                      Does my uncle's Injury obviously prove that I'm lying? Yes you are Spinoza! It is always interesting to meet such individuals on the net with inverted psyche and logic. )))))
                      1. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        Shows your level. Keep on turning inside out.
        2. +3
          July 17 2017
          Quote: Shurale
          By the way, the fragments of the striking elements completely prove that it was our rocket, the shape of a butterfly.

          On a full-scale experiment "Almaz-Antey"? And on the Boeing - trapeze))
          1. 0
            July 18 2017
            These kugly holes from what?
          2. 0
            July 18 2017
            Where is the trapeze? But these big input?
    2. 0
      July 17 2017
      In Ukraine, everyone continues to screw the Su-25 to the Buk rocket?
      https://youtu.be/t9baDcwVgVc?t=860
      https://youtu.be/4MlR2N-qems?t=385
      1. +1
        July 17 2017
        Does Almaz-Antey know that he is a Ukrainian company?
        1. +1
          July 17 2017
          They probably don’t know how the holes differ from GSh-30-1 (not their toy) from shrapnel scree from their Buk.
      2. 0
        July 17 2017
        Even if it’s true, how do you explain the striking elements found like a butterfly? First, look at the results of an international investigation, and then believe that bleating of our crap in the army leadership. It was necessary to substitute like that, were there really no old missiles left? What did you think?
        https://youtu.be/nMS3yVJ2h3Y
        1. +5
          July 17 2017
          Quote: Shurale
          it's a drive

          And why are you distributing this "gonevo" here?
          If the United States had one hundred percent evidence, in particular the RF, they would have howled for a long time, there is a stink, there is a howl, but there is NO evidence.
          1. 0
            July 17 2017
            If you stop listening to slop from the zombie and try to find information on this issue yourself, believe me you will be surprised. Fortunately, now there are no problems with obtaining information, you just need to climb on the Internet. There is a conclusion of the commission, official, confirmed by examination, striking elements such as a butterfly were found, there are photographs of the elements themselves and their traces on the skin. If you are too lazy, well, watch TV.

            But why distribute? Do you understand completely and completely on the side of the Russian Federation, the DNI and the LC, but I can not stand when my state keeps me for a fool. If you are doing business, do it efficiently, and crap - have the courage to admit, keep the mark of a true country, do not be like the West.
            1. +2
              July 17 2017
              On the first link, test firing at targets in the Lipetsk Center of the Russian Aerospace Forces from a Su-25 cannon.
              https://youtu.be/t9baDcwVgVc?t=860
              On the second link, a briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense on the presence of the Su-25 in the area of ​​the disaster.
              https://youtu.be/4MlR2N-qems?t=385
              Gonevo in your comment:
              Quote: Shurale
              First look at the results of an international investigation and then believe that our bleating crap in the leadership of the army.

              and on your stubborn avatar of ukrotroll.
              1. 0
                July 18 2017
                The videos are certainly nice but awesome, why? Right now I’ll explain the fact that the drying to the height at which the Boeing was going cannot climb, in principle, that modification that can just jump there from dispersal, there is no question of aiming from the gun, and Ukraine has no such planes , so the video is as I said gonevo. And secondly, the video about drying does not explain the presence of butterfly-type holes on the Boeing, so I say again, the video is just a discussion of the option of excuses from our military, dumb excuses. Designed for those who are not in the know.

                And once again I ask, first read the case materials, and then lay out your opinion. You can’t just believe the word propaganda, you need to check and think for yourself.
                1. +1
                  July 18 2017
                  The fact is that Ukroboronservis writes itself that the Su-25 APU can climb to such a height easily and without acceleration.
                  https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmicheskaya-t
                  ehnika / 84-cy-25
                  Practical ceiling, m 7000-10000
                  With overclocking pop up on a dynamic ceiling. On a practical ceiling, the plane happily goes in horizontal flight at maximum speed.
                  1. 0
                    July 18 2017
                    Did you forget to answer the question how Su, who climbed to this height, was able to leave traces of the latest modification of beech on the fuselage of a passenger plane, in particular, traces and the striking elements in the form of a butterfly?

                    You can discuss the version with Su as much as you like, but until you explain the presence of these traces, this discussion is a drive ...
                    1. +1
                      July 18 2017
                      You forgot to look above that there are just no traces from Buk.
                      Only the training Su-25K climbs with difficulty to such a height.
                      1. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        Have you read the materials of the commission? And while claiming that there are no signs there? Or didn’t you read?
                    2. +1
                      July 18 2017
                      Have you looked at the photo above?
                      In the "material of the commission" is there anything from these input traces? Beech pellets are many times smaller. The edges of those small fragments from the cabin that are in their cabin should be bent to the other side. Big ones came from somewhere without Buka.
                      What about the fact that the Su-25 cannot fly there? Can't the jamb be so clumsy?
                      1. 0
                        July 28 2017
                        Why bother letting the Su-25 intercept? From a clean Mig-29 fighter means we are bombing (for a reason they were shot down a couple), we are firing planes from an attack aircraft
                      2. 0
                        July 28 2017
                        Passed by
                        Well, for example, then that the Su-25, while working on the ground, was already in the square "flew by." A fighter specially raised for interception from the airfield, due to the proximity of the border, would not have time to fly up.
                        The avionics of the Su-27 or MiG-29 includes a radar block for determining the type of target by the respondent (transponder), even before the visual identification, the civilian airliner knew it or not, and it would be more difficult to refer to the identification error. As well as why such a fighter ambush.
                        Avionics Su-25 is not a fact that it has, although there are such identifiers on all air defense systems and even MANPADS after Strela-2. This is so, by the way.
        2. +1
          July 17 2017
          Quote: Shurale
          First look at the results of an international investigation

          And what new should I learn from that bleeding of the psvedocommissions? That the whole report is customized for one specific version. Shot down by Russia.
          1. 0
            July 17 2017
            If you read these commissions, you yourself will be able to understand whether they are customized or not. YOURSELF decide and do not repeat lies from the TV. Should you have at least some kind of self-esteem? Do you really want to check yourself if the members of the commission lie to you - you will only confirm that you are right, if you see that they are not lying, you will understand the attitude of our beloved leaders towards you. And maybe your self-awareness will start to work. And you will cease to be a puppet.
            1. +4
              July 17 2017
              Yes, where am I to you! One of you is so advanced and you are looking for all the info on the Internet, I only learned to press buttons on your TV remote control and I believe everything that they show me on TV, but how could it be otherwise, quilted jackets are like that.
              1. 0
                July 17 2017
                You read the real report, and then we'll talk.
                1. +3
                  July 17 2017
                  A real report in which criminologists cannot distinguish the nature of holes, and "according to social networks" say that after a mokrukha a weapon a war criminal unfamiliar with camouflage would have taken somewhere openly?
                2. +4
                  July 17 2017
                  Yes, we have already read all the reports a long time ago. And long ago, conclusions were drawn. With two deployed divisions of ukrobuki, one PU is delivered from Russia in the afternoon on an open trailer without a station for highlighting the target of a supernova modification of a beech, which all ukropatriots are photographed and videotaped, and it turns out that the shooting location does not correspond to the city claimed by ukraine, but one in one place under the control of ukrov. And without a locator, or with an inconspicuous (!) Use of a locator from the territory of the Russian Federation, this supernova PU knocks a Boeing and quickly takes to the Russian Federation on an open trailer. At the same time, the working (!) Ukrodivizions of Bukov (tracked and photographed) together with the two ukrosushki flying there (tracked and photographed) do not knock anything down, they notice nothing and are not considered at all by the investigation. After this, the investigation “loses” 2/3 of the wreckage of the aircraft, which literally must be riddled with striking elements and presents as “evidence” two elements of the missile that are “stuck” in the cockpit duralumin. Do you really want to talk about this?
                  1. 0
                    July 17 2017
                    Quote: Ropusk
                    but one in one corresponds to a place under the control of ukrov
                    Once again I ask, where are the trolleybus wires from in Krasnoarmeysk?
                    1. +1
                      July 17 2017
                      And why did you decide that these are trellibus wires? These are power line wires thrown across the road. For your information, the trolleybus has two wires in a line, but the power line has one.
                      1. 0
                        July 17 2017
                        Who said that a power line has one wire? As a rule, at least 3, because 3 phases. Well, the neutral wire is still.
                      2. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        Quote: kuz363
                        Who said that a power line has one wire? As a rule, at least 3, because 3 phases. Well, the neutral wire is still.

                        This is for high voltage power lines.
                      3. +1
                        July 18 2017
                        Quote: kuz363
                        Who said that a power line has one wire? As a rule, at least 3, because 3 phases. Well, the neutral wire is still.

                        What are you saying! And if there are three phases in one shell? Do you know what SIP is? So in the photo most likely SIP (self-supporting insulated wire). And certainly not a trolleybus line.
                    2. +1
                      July 17 2017
                      Quote: Mimoprohodil
                      Quote: Ropusk
                      but one in one corresponds to a place under the control of ukrov
                      Once again I ask, where are the trolleybus wires from in Krasnoarmeysk?

                      And why did you decide that these are trellibus wires? These are power line wires thrown across the road. For your information, the trolleybus has two wires in a line, but the power line has one.
                  2. 0
                    July 18 2017
                    I don’t understand, Ukrainians brought a supernew beech from Russia? This is some nonsense . Then they shot and drove back to the Russian Federation? Have you smoked?
                3. +1
                  July 17 2017
                  Quote: Shurale
                  You read the real report, and then we'll talk.

                  Even if I read it and remain in my opinion that all that is written there is a spherical horse in a vacuum. Like it was Buk, there was a rocket, the plane was shot down. Where did they shoot from? From somewhere in a circle with a radius of 320 km! Nothing so small! This suggests that they do not have 100% evidence, otherwise they would have presented them without delay. And there are plenty of questions for this pseudo-consequence itself.
                  1. 0
                    July 18 2017
                    All this is understandable, there are many blurry things, but there is clear data, for example, traces on the fuselage and fragments of a butterfly in the shape of a butterfly stuck in it, this is irrefutable evidence. And quite clear. How do you explain this?
                    1. 0
                      July 18 2017
                      Where in the photo above is something in the shape of a butterfly?
                      1. 0
                        July 18 2017

                        This is a visual video with photographs of found fragments of the butterfly type. There is a very detailed report, not only the video, but there in English, I used to upload the source. If you want to find it. The official report.
                      2. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        Two visual photos were higher. There is not a single “butterfly” on them.
                      3. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        Do you think these are all pictures? You will familiarize yourself with the documents of the commission, there are still photographs, there are traces on them, these two are not indicators, we must all look, not just these two.
                      4. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        These are two photographs of the wreckage of the pilot's cabin, and the cannon fire is especially crowded. How do you explain them?
                        You can roll your "Dutch results" into a tube and smoke.
                    2. 0
                      July 18 2017
                      Quote: Shurale
                      All this is understandable, a lot of blurry things,

                      In this case, the whole report and all this investigation are worthless! How can you trust the findings of the investigation, in which there are many vague things? !! In this case, where is the guarantee that everything else is not far-fetched? Just do not about the "read report"! On the fence is also written!
                      1. 0
                        July 18 2017
                        Are you a strange person, are you waiting for an answer about the exact location of the launcher following the traces of an explosion on a fallen plane? And on the grounds that the commission cannot do this, are its findings in doubt? Naturally, for those things that are simply impossible to EXACTLY answer, there will be no exact conclusions, only rather blurry circles on the map. Does it surprise you? How old are you? And what is there, along with blurry results - you ignore the exact results, based on the fact that the blurry ones do not suit you. You do not find that it already resembles trolling? I advise you once again to read the full report of the joint commission ...
                      2. +2
                        July 18 2017
                        Strange is you with your inadequate reasoning about the infallibility and impartiality of a knowingly false investigation, which cannot give exact definitions to anything other than what everyone knows about without their “facts”. And the gut is thin or the owner does not order to name the specific culprit, or that the truth is most likely not satisfied.
  7. +3
    July 17 2017
    This "investigation" will go down in the counterparts of aviation accident investigations as the most biased, politicized using frankly rigged "facts" and absolutely not professional. It’s just that it won’t be any easier for us - there was a big rainfall in our souls and undisguised contempt for Western “experts” in falsification.
  8. 0
    July 17 2017
    This business can be conducted for 33 years or more, until the next US leader has a desire to complete it. It’s clear, like a white day, who sabotages the investigation. This fact alone allows us to blame Ukraine. If you want to receive the whole range of requested documents and witnesses, the EU has all the powers and capabilities. Cover up the money valve, and recognition will sprinkle. And if the United States does not give the results of satellite imagery, then the affected countries, especially NATO members, may well have a financial impact on their main ally, or else lobby for the creation of their army. Of course, this is a big scandal, but it would be possible to raise a question on their NATO gatherings without any special problems. Of course, if the affected countries want to find the real culprit. But this is just the strain. Here we see a kind of social racism, in which political goals are sacrificed in the form of just retribution for the murder of EU citizens. It turns out that the dead are not people of the first grade .....
    1. 0
      July 18 2017
      They acknowledge that they shot down the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in about 2 years. And they will remove the last three hare skins from the stubborn crampons.
      1. 0
        July 18 2017
        Quote: Scratchy Doll
        They acknowledge that they shot down the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in about 2 years. And they will remove the last three hare skins from the stubborn crampons.

        I don’t think everything is so simple. It will be necessary to pull someone into the court, interrogate, people from the American "beau monde" may emerge. In order to upload all this to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it is necessary to “cover” Poroshenko, Nalyvaichenko, and also according to the list. I don’t think that Ukrainians made an independent decision on Boeing. CIA handwriting, don’t go to your grandmother. The plan for a similar incident over Cuba even somehow appeared in the press. Most likely, this "little thing" will be endless. The main trend of "public opinion" is set by the US media. Whoever stands behind them will decide whether to open the cards or not. But they themselves will not "carve out." After all, the whole Ukrainian epic is also their work, I am sure of it. Something will accidentally pop up in the press, but the case will most likely not reach the official charge against the materials of the investigation. Perhaps they will force Ukraine to pay some compensation, on the grounds of territorial accusation. But also not a fact. The Tu-154, shot down over the World Cup, has still been suspended. And here I expect similar.
        1. 0
          July 18 2017
          They write that in the wake of anti-Russian hysteria due to nitrogen hypoxia, the pilot fired at the intruder by mistake, and will make him extreme. As planned. They will say that the liner flew a new corridor and the air defense did not receive data on its flight. Therefore, due to the proximity of the border, so as not to have time to leave, they drove for identification the first aircraft that was already in the air in the area. Which turned out to be an attack aircraft. It is all clear as day.
          1. 0
            July 18 2017
            Quote: Scratchy Doll
            They write that in the wake of anti-Russian hysteria due to nitrogen hypoxia, the pilot fired at the offender by mistake

            We will see ...
            1. 0
              July 19 2017
              Already done that. At the same time, they will launch an unofficial version that dill tried to bring down enemy number 1. Everyone can choose from two wrong one which is more like.
  9. Say
    0
    July 17 2017
    The Netherlands, Malaysia and Australia should be prohibited from using the airspace of Russia.
  10. 0
    July 17 2017
    Poroshenko, the United States and the European Union about who shot down the Boeing ?:
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. 0
    July 17 2017
    Also unanswered are questions addressed to the Ukrainian side immediately after the crash. In particular:
    Why there is no data of interrogation of the Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers?
    Where is the transcript data of the flight recorders?
    Why was the plane launched above the epicenter of fierce fighting by the mentioned Dnepropetrovsk controllers?
    Where is the data on the movements of 17 July 2017 of the Ukrainian Buk air defense missile system and Ukrainian aviation?

    Only in such articles can they write this, because they do not read the Internet and reports.
    Record of dispatchers - repeatedly gave.
    In the September 9 report of the Netherlands Security Council in paragraph 2.5.4. It is stated that the organization Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise or UkSATSE provided the investigators with records and transcripts of radio and telephone conversations related to the MH17 flight.

    The report publishes a text transcript of negotiations between dispatchers from Dnepropetrovsk, Rostov and the crew of the Malaysian flight.

    According to the executive director of the Center for Criminological Research Vyacheslav Konovalov, even if the Ukrainian authorities refused to provide recordings of negotiations between the dispatchers and the crew of the Malaysian aircraft, investigators could get this information from the flight recorders of the liner. They were found and made available to experts. “Flight recorders record everything that happens in the cabin, instrument readings, crew talks between themselves and the outside world,” Konovalov summed up. And the recorders were transmitted and decoded. There, too, is nothing but ordinary negotiations with dispatchers and a sharp break in communication.

    As for why they started on that course, they flew at the heights of 10 km. The trains are safe (in the opinion, for which Ukraine will still have to answer, because it is Ukrainian territory) - and not only Boeing flew there and only this happened.
    Data on the movement of air defense systems transferred to the Dutch.
    1. 0
      July 18 2017
      The trouble happened only with the one that looked like a Russian government plane.
      The table does not include data on the change in altitude and course, it cannot be compared with the data of the registrars transferred to LDNR to the Malaysians, who they immediately handed over to the British, and those contents along with the Dutch and the rest of the unworthy company were classified from the world community.
  13. +4
    July 17 2017
    Quote: Shurale
    But why distribute? Do you understand completely and completely on the side of the Russian Federation, the DNI and the LC, but I can not stand when my state keeps me for a fool. If you are doing business, do it efficiently, and crap - have the courage to admit, keep the mark of a true country, do not be like the West.

    A new training manual came to write on behalf of a certain patriot, throwing stones and dirt into his own country?
    Tell me at least one reason why the Russian Federation had to shoot down a passenger Boeing.
    1. +1
      July 17 2017
      I myself want to hear her, this reason. I voiced this question at the very beginning of this dialogue. Read the thread first.

      The question remains open. How could our professionals not understand that the plane is on the radar, and in height and along the corridor is passenger?


      My thoughts are, they wanted to bring down a high-altitude bomber. Which could no longer get the needles. But how did they confuse a small momber with a passenger? I think those who screwed up already paid ...
      1. +1
        July 17 2017
        From Beech? The only passenger plane in the area (MH17) similar to the Russian presidential board? When was the Su-25 APU next to it?
        With morality in / in Ukraine at the level of "la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la ..." even among the deputy ministers?
        Poroshenko then did not bow to the Australian flag?
      2. +1
        July 17 2017
        Do you want to say that you shot Voloshin on the dryer, but ended up in a Boeing that flew 5 km higher? And for this drove SOU 9A310M1 without 9S18M1 radar from the Russian Federation under the barrel to the ukrov positional areas? Or is it even worse, they drove the 9A310M1-2 SOU, which they don’t produce at all? Who are you holding idiots for?
        It is much more likely that the Ukrainians drove their installation in a panic to hide away, having learned that they had failed Boeing.
      3. 0
        July 17 2017
        Without a special radar on the tower, the machine itself might not have understood: the Su-24R is flying or a Boeing. It seems that drying flew actively.
        1. 0
          July 18 2017
          Without a radar, no matter what, she couldn’t shoot. She has no radar, it's just a launcher.
        2. +1
          July 18 2017
          Without a special radar, a Su-25 pilot flying nearby could easily see the color difference.
  14. +1
    July 17 2017
    "Look, what's going on around the world, in Europe? We are not the first and not the last, do not make a tragedy out of this."
    President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma October 10, 2001.
    All you need to know about the honesty and morality of Ukrainian politicians and their mentors sad
  15. +2
    July 17 2017
    Does anyone else wonder after three years this "disaster"? Take a look at the history of provocations from the USA. All in the same style and in the same spirit. And just as clumsy and ridiculous. For they consider the rest of the world to be downs, who must believe in their next cranberry. Why was this done? What immediately followed this event? Here comes the answer to the question - to whom it was beneficial. This was done in order to introduce further sanctions against the Russian Federation. Someone else continues to think that a certain "passenger plane" packed with "unsuspecting passengers" and controlled by "strange pilots" "accidentally" flew into the combat zone, deviating significantly from the usual route and specially dropping ??? Come on. Remember the year 1983. Our Far East. Then our sworn "friends" from the USA set up their reconnaissance aircraft under the missiles of our interceptors, which they probably later finished off (it was a little weak for one fighter missile). At the same time, a real Korean passenger plane disappeared somewhere, but already off the coast of Japan. Doesn’t resemble anything? And what followed? What did Comrade Reagan say? Something there about some kind of evil empire ...!? Yes, all according to the proven scheme. In the Donbas, think differently? Specially prepared aircraft. Perhaps specifically included in the official flight schedule. Not the fact that there were live passengers ... Someone checked by passports that fell from the sky in a separate box, do real people appear at those addresses? Vobschem standard stupid provocation from the USA. About Buk - it's funny ... Well, why sobsno Buk pulled by the ears? Why not S-300, S-400? Type dragged specifically to bring down someone and then dragged back ...... I can’t laugh ... these "Russians" ... Well, who else could come up with such cranberries, if not specialists from the USA ???
  16. 0
    July 17 2017
    The same route was supposed to fly a plane IL - 96 with Putin. B - 777 is very similar to him. VSUshniki mixed up, shot down not what they wanted.
    1. 0
      July 18 2017
      Not the same. Just how do the pilot or the command of the Armed Forces know what? Unless they just threw this disinformation from above.
    2. 0
      July 18 2017
      Quote: 16112014nk
      B - 777 is very similar to him. VSUshniki mixed up, shot down not what they wanted.

      Very similar! For a housewife, he may look like a "corncracker", also buzzing with wings wink . Visually, they have quite clear differences, which in flight look even better. One has 2 engines, the other has 4. This is where you need to look so that you can’t see the differences?
      1. 0
        July 18 2017
        Quote: ARES623
        Visually, they have very clear differences

        Visually, yes. But on the monitor screen? In terms of size, the IL-96 and B-777 are almost the same on the screen, most likely they have similar flare.
        1. 0
          July 18 2017
          Quote: 16112014nk
          Visually, yes. But on the monitor screen? In terms of size, the IL-96 and B-777 are almost the same on the screen, most likely they have similar flare.

          I think that on the radar screen all objects close in size, speed, thermal radiation will give similar marks. Then the Tu-95 and Tu-160 can be talked about similarity at subsonic speed. The whole question is for what type of observation? I understood how for visual. Wrong?
          1. 0
            July 18 2017
            You both think wrong. The Russian military identified the type of aircraft as "presumably Su-25" by its mark on the radar.
      2. 0
        July 18 2017
        There are twin-engine aircraft in the fleet of the Russian government squadron, and they are all painted in the same pattern. Their types and quantities can be found here:
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Специальный_лётный_
        squad_ "Russia"
  17. 0
    July 17 2017
    You may ask why our dispatchers ignored the order for a height of 16 km? It seems from 0 hours acted.
  18. +1
    July 17 2017
    are dispatchers still alive?
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. 0
    July 18 2017
    Quote: Shurale
    Are you a strange person, are you waiting for an answer about the exact location of the launcher following the traces of an explosion on a fallen plane? And on the grounds that the commission cannot do this, are its findings in doubt?

    We are generally strange people - we use logic. And if something looks like a cat, walks like a cat and meows like a cat, we conclude that there is no doubt that this is most likely a cat.
    So it is with Buk. If the facts indicate that the rocket launched by the militia could not leave the traces shown in the investigation, but should leave other traces and vice versa, if the traces shown in the investigation could leave the rocket launched by ukrov, and it is not clear why Ukrainians generally deployed their divisions, if only they were not going to arrange a provocation in advance, we conclude that most likely the Ukrainians shot down a Boeing. Doubts about the striking elements and the shooting of the transported SOU Buka, which is useless without a radar, only strengthen our conclusions. Boeing you shot down.
    1. 0
      July 18 2017
      There are facts that the damage on the pilot's cockpit and wing of the MH17 does not correspond to Buk at all. Because they shot him down with the Su-25, and then they sent everyone to look for some kind of "Buck coming from Russia, leaving Russia."
  21. +1
    July 18 2017
    Quote: Scratchy Doll
    how “presumably the Su-25” was identified by its mark on the radar.

    That's it. After all, the EPR of the Su-25 is somewhere around 10 units (sq. M.), And the EPR of the B-777 and IL-96 is likely to be 5-7 times more.
    1. 0
      August 1 2017
      Another An-26 fly at altitudes 1,5 times lower than the jet Boeing.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. 0
    July 23 2018
    And the “calculation” (reconstruction) of the aircraft from its individual fragments in the Netherlands was carried out at best by 50%.

    in a previous article they said no. And now here is 50% ...
    Why there is no data of interrogation of the Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers?
    Where is the transcript data of the flight recorders?
    Why was the plane launched above the epicenter of fierce fighting by the mentioned Dnepropetrovsk controllers?
    Where is the data on the movements of 17 July 2017 of the Ukrainian Buk air defense missile system and Ukrainian aviation?

    deja vu. The same thing in every article about Boeing
    .
    In the September 9 report of the Netherlands Security Council in paragraph 2.5.4. It is stated that the organization Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise or UkSATSE provided the investigators with records and transcripts of radio and telephone conversations related to the MH17 flight.

    The report publishes a text transcript of negotiations between dispatchers from Dnepropetrovsk, Rostov and the crew of the Malaysian flight.

    Black boxes "Boeing 777 MH17 decrypted - Cameron


    British Prime Minister David Cameron said that preliminary results of the decoding of flight recorders of the Boeing 777 MH17 crashed in Ukraine will be published next week.
    According to him, the data from the flight recorders were extracted last week by British experts in Farnborough and transmitted to investigators in the Netherlands.

    A plane was launched at a standstill of 10 thousand meters. Like a few others at the time. Safe height from MANPADS!
    Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers, following the instructions of the Rostovites-changed course
    How did they know that someone would start shooting “birds” from Buk?
    Ukraine will already be responsible for hoping at that moment that the “terrorists" have nothing but MANPADS (which they also stated especially after the Boeing, although now, after the Shell in the center of the city, hardly anyone will believe them).
    Threat when the authors finally read the report !?

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