Military Review

BMP "Puma"

18



To create a new BMP, the company Projekt System und Management GmbH (PSM) in Kassel was created. The approval of fully developed tactical and technical requirements took place on 26 in February of 1998 of the year, but only in December of 2005 of the year the first Puma was released.


The newest German BMP "Puma"


BMP "Puma" is made according to the classical scheme for infantry fighting vehicles, but it has some peculiarities. The engine compartment is located at the front of the vehicle and takes up about one third of the length of its body. The driver is located in front of the left along the car, to the right of it the motor partition of the power compartment. Behind the department of management and the power department in the car body are the workplaces of the commander and gunner of the BMP: the commander is on the right and the gunner is on the left. The commander and the driver have personal hatches in the roof of the BMP housing. The gunner makes landing and disembarking through the hatch of the commander.

Uninhabited tower with a complex of weapons is located in the central part of the machine body with a shift to the left, i.e. behind the gunner. Along the starboard side behind the commander of the BMP are 4 airborne seats. The paratroopers are located back to starboard. Two more seats for paratroopers are located along the left side of the car immediately behind the tower. They are also placed back to the left side. Seat mounted to the roof of the car body.
For landing and disembarking the crew in the stern of the vehicle there is a door with a power drive, which opens back down, thus turning into a ramp. In the roof of the stern of the BMP there are two oval hatches, the covers of which open to the center of the vehicle. Loopholes for firing from the individual weapons landing is not provided. The car body is welded from rolled armor plates. The chassis has a five-bearing (on board) suspension, with the location of the drive wheel in front and the guide wheel behind. The suspension is individual, independent, hydropneumatic.

High security (“unsurpassed in its class” - according to the developers) BMP “Puma” is provided with a complex of passive and active means.

Three levels of machine protection are envisaged: option “A” (air transport), option with a higher level of protection, and option “C” (combat).

In option “A”, the combat weight of the vehicle is 31,45 tons, which ensures the transportation of infantry fighting vehicles by air using A400M transport aircraft. The armored hull of a combat vehicle provides protection against bullets of large-caliber machine guns and large-caliber sniper rifles (caliber up to 14,5 mm) in all projections. In frontal projections, the armored protection of the Puma should keep 30 mm shells of automatic guns and hand grenades of anti-tank grenade launchers hit. True, this does not specify which grenades and from which grenade launchers. It is well known that modern rounds for grenade launchers can penetrate even the frontal armor of modern tanks.



In option “C”, the combat weight of the vehicle is 43 t. In this version, the vehicle is translated by linking special armored modules onto it. They are installed both on the front parts of the hull and the Puma tower, and on the side and stern, as well as on the roof of the hull. In this case, in the event of the defeat of any of the modules can be quickly replaced. In option “C”, the crew and systems are protected from 30-mm sub-caliber projectiles of automatic cannons and grenades of hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers, not only in frontal, but also in side projections of the machine. All other projections provide protection against bullets from large-caliber machine guns and large-caliber sniper rifles (caliber up to 14,5 mm).

In addition, in both types of protection, the crew’s survival is guaranteed in case of undermining of anti-tank mines. But again, it does not indicate what power these mines are and what action.


Reinforcement options

To increase the survival rate of the machine on the battlefield, the BMP is equipped with a warning system for laser irradiation. Thanks to the set of sensors of this system, not only the radiation of laser range finders can be detected, but also missile launches or cannon shots are reported. The automatic system provides shooting aerosol grenades for masking, and also gives direction to the threat, in order to open fire on the object threatening the BMP.
The defense of the vehicle is also enhanced by the high reconnaissance capabilities of the BMP. The installation of low-level cameras on the sides and stern of the hull and turret ensures constant monitoring of 360 ° around the car. The image from the cameras enters the LCD monitors of the commander and the gunner. In addition, according to the developers, a target designation can be issued to the commander of the detected target from any of the prismatic surveillance devices.

The commander of the vehicle conducts observation through a panoramic combined sight mounted on the turret roof, which has a field of view stabilized in two planes and a variable multiplicity of its increase.

For self-defense on the rear of the machine there is a six-barrel 76-mm fragmentation grenade launcher. The effective firing range is from 30 to 65 m.
The BMP Puma is equipped with a collective defense system against weapons of mass destruction and a fire detection and extinguishing system.

One of the requirements for the new German BMP was to ensure its mobility at the level of the main battle tank Leopard-2. Given the considerable combat mass of the BMP, this task could only be achieved by ensuring a high power density of the power plant.
The 10-cylinder four-stroke V-diesel diesel engine MTU 10V 892 HPD (High Power Density) with turbocharging developed by the famous German company MTU was used as the power unit for the power plant BMP Puma.

The diesel is capable of power up to 1000 HP. at 4250 rpm The maximum engine torque is 2070 Nm at 3200 rpm. These characteristics of the power unit provide the machine with specific power up to 34 hp / t at booking level “A” and 25,3 hp / t at booking level “C”. These indicators allow the Puma to develop speed on the highway up to 70 km / h.



The MTU 10V 892 HPD diesel engine has two turbochargers providing a fivefold compression ratio of air supplied to the engine. Engine cooling system dual-circuit liquid.

The engine is equipped with electronic control systems, electric start-up, to ensure starting at low temperatures, and an integrated starter-generator.
The HSWL 256 automatic gearbox is mounted in a single unit with a diesel engine. The transmission includes a torque converter with a lock-up clutch and directly a gearbox, providing six gears for forward and one reverse gear, a vehicle turning system, a braking system and a transmission control system.
The transmission control is electrohydraulic, therefore it does not require much physical effort when driving a car. Gear shifting when moving automatically.
High speed BMP "Puma", especially over rough terrain, and provided with a new chassis. Its peculiarity is that it is assembled separately from the body of the machine and is a separate structure, and for each side. Then, to each side of the hull, these structures are attached through rubber elements, which significantly reduces the level of vibrations in the car and noise. So two problems were solved at once: crew fatigue was reduced and the failure of instruments and components.

According to the developers, such a suspension design not only allows to increase the effective volume inside the BMP corps, but also reduces the risk of damage to the inside crew members and airborne troops by scattering suspension parts when undermining mines.

Uninhabited tower with an armament complex
High fire power of the BMP Puma is provided by modern fire control systems, powerful armaments, an electromechanical stabilizer and other systems.
The main weapon on the Puma is the 30-mm automatic cannon Rheinmetall Waffe Munition MK 30-2 / AVM.

It has dual feed and uses standard NATO ammunition 30x173 mm. In the ammunition there are APFSDS-T armored-piercing sub-caliber ammunition and KETF fragmentation with remote blasting, sometimes called AVM. According to the developers, the gun is capable of striking armored targets with single shots and bursts at ranges up to 3000 m. The rate of firing with bursts is 200 rounds per minute. The initial velocity of the APFSDS-T projectile is 1385 m / s, and the KETF projectile - 1100 m / s.



The developers believe that at ranges up to 3000 m from the gun MK 30-2 / AVM, you can successfully fight all types of armored targets, striking their aiming devices, surveillance, sensors, which are outside. It is also possible to fight with helicopters and enemy manpower, unarmored targets, using KETF shells. These shells have inside 162 a tungsten cylindrical fragment of 1,24 weight.

The ammunition of the gun in the Puma BMP is 400 shots, laid in 4 tape. Two ribbons (200 shots) are in the niche of the tower in a special store and are ready for use, and two more - in the car body.

The secondary weapon is the MG5,56 4-mm machine gun. Ammunition is 2000 cartridges in two tapes. One tape is ready for use, the other is in the installation.

As an additional weapon, the Puma BMP has a six-barrel grenade launcher mounted in the rear of the car on the left side. It is intended for shooting 76-mm fragmentation grenades to destroy enemy personnel at ranges up to 50 m, suddenly appearing behind the machine.

For the production of aerosol curtains on the tower there are 8 launchers of smoke (aerosol) grenades, combined into two groups.

BMP "Puma" is equipped with a modern automated fire control system (FCS), which is integrated into the command control system - IFIS (Integrated Combat Forces Command and Weapon Control System).

Directly, it consists of a combined WAO gunner sighting system, a PERI RTWL-B panoramic commanding sight, an onboard computer with an interface, controls, video monitors, firing condition sensors. The FCS is interfaced with a digital all-electric two-plane weapon stabilizer.

Optoelectronic aiming complex WAO gunner has an independent stabilization of the field of view in two planes.

As with all the latest designs of armored vehicles, in the Puma BMP, serious attention was paid to improving the efficiency of command handling. The machine is equipped with an automated control system for troops and weapons IFIS (Integrated Combat Forces Command and Weapon Control System). It provides a guaranteed flow of information for controlling combat units from the battalion, company, platoon and detachment to a separate combat vehicle (tank or infantry fighting vehicle). The ACS used in the Puma BMP provides:
• the use of networks of subsystems to control, inform, communicate, control weapons, including when outside the machine;
• the ability to control unmanned vehicles, both in the air and on the ground;
• the possibility of improving and building up additional components of the command and control network. Of the strengths of the Puma BMP, it is worth noting the high security (compared to other models of BMP, and not machines comparable in mass), high firing performance from an automatic gun, achieved through the use of sophisticated weapons control systems and new ammunition. including remote undermining, high mobility, modern technologies of technical and rear support, high command controllability.



Yet the machine is not without flaws. One of them is a large combat mass. In version “C” of the BMP “Puma” in 1,5 - 2 is times heavier than other models of BMP and comparable with the Russian BMPT. However, it remains vulnerable to RPGs (although the developers claim the opposite). Judging by the experience of recent local conflicts, it is precisely reactive anti-tank grenades that defeat most of the combat vehicles. Consequently, an increase in the mass of the BMP Puma is unjustified. In addition, there is no data on the mobility of this "Puma" on heavy soils.
Another drawback is the lack of ability to fight tanks and other armored combat vehicles with high security. On the BMP "Puma" there is no complex of guided missile weapons.

An auxiliary weapon in the form of an 5,56-mm MG4 machine gun coupled to a cannon using machine gun cartridges is clearly not enough for a combat vehicle. The ammunition of the automatic cannon, which is ready to use, is not enough - just 200 shots. Existing 200 shots should be loaded into ammunition supply stores only when the crew leaves the vehicle.

The disadvantages include the lack of mechanical backup systems to control the weapon system.
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  1. builder
    builder 19 August 2013 08: 46 New
    +5
    Lucky car. For article "+"
  2. 6216390
    6216390 19 August 2013 09: 26 New
    +3
    The approval of fully developed tactical and technical requirements took place on February 26, 1998, but only in December 2005 the first Puma was released.

    They have the same problem, the BMP was created for 7 years, are the tactical and technical requirements out of date.
    1. Peacemaker of the USSR
      Peacemaker of the USSR 23 October 2014 22: 13 New
      -1
      The general principle of construction is correct, in contrast to our dead-end "Terminator". As always, they wanted to quickly report on the work done, in the end a wretched monster.
      The base for the "Terminator" must be changed so that it is built like the "Puma" (modular), and the "top" can be left. So that the basic version can be landed with the 1st dome, and all additional. booking is 2nd. Otherwise, the Airborne Forces without the "Terminator" remains.
      Give the Puma Terminator. smile
  3. common man
    common man 19 August 2013 09: 57 New
    +1
    Question to those who are in the subject. On imported armored vehicles install more revolving diesel engines than ours. On Leopards - 3000 rpm. on Puma over 4250. Our 2000 rpm. As you know, a more revving engine with the same dimensions produces more power. Ours can’t create revving engines for tanks and other equipment, or they don’t want, and there are reasons for this?
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 19 August 2013 11: 52 New
      +2
      With ICE in Russia and the USSR there have always been problems. Most are copied from Amerovsky and German. Now YaMZ has launched a new 530 series, but there is very little Russian. ChTZ has a series T, KAMAZ KAMINZ. All pretty modern
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 19 August 2013 12: 31 New
      +8
      Our engines are deformed, as we have a tradition - the characteristics of a combat vehicle are real. And "they" have characteristics "sell". Low revs provide increased low-end traction at low speeds. That is, in the mud, on the sand, in a word, on heavy soils. The permeability is much better. Another trifle - the resource is also higher, albeit not several times, but very significantly. Well, all these turbocharged, high-revving lighters look very good when listing the characteristics. "Faster, higher, stronger"! Easy for Arabs to sell. They burn in the mountains (literally, the engine burns out), drown in mud, die in the sand ...
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 19 August 2013 12: 40 New
        +2
        Don’t tell me, Caterpillars have revolving turbocharged and very hardy diesel engines, especially early ones without a comm-rail and they consume an order of magnitude smaller than ours
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 19 August 2013 13: 38 New
          +2
          And what are they worth? Our diesel is roughly like their block head? When using materials of radically higher quality, this can be done and is being done. Only money you need to have the sea spilled, no more problems. Well, machining centers with cutting systems with feedback have just begun to be implemented with us. So our diesel engines are not yet in full condition ...
          "Caterpillar" - you mean the tractor? Their chassis is slightly different from combat vehicles. If it was possible to install wheels on the BMP one meter wide and two meters high, then it would be possible to compare ...
          1. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 19 August 2013 14: 44 New
            0
            Therefore, almost everything is imported in the YaMZ-530. Caterpillar is installed on ships and tractors.
    3. ramsi
      ramsi 19 August 2013 19: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: man in the street
      Question to those who are in the subject. On imported armored vehicles install more revolving diesel engines than ours. On Leopards - 3000 rpm. on Puma over 4250. Our 2000 rpm. As you know, a more revving engine with the same dimensions produces more power. Ours can’t create revving engines for tanks and other equipment, or they don’t want, and there are reasons for this?

      The alignment is approximately the following: an increase in engine output, with the organization of the process of fuel combustion in the cylinders unchanged, is possible only in one way - by increasing the amount of combustible fuel. That is, either boosting air + fuel, or an increase in displacement. Supercharging is more profitable in terms of efficiency and dimensions, displacement - in terms of engine life and troubles. Supercharging inevitably leads to an increase in speed; This in itself is not bad, but the requirements for the box are increasing. I don’t know where we lag behind, perhaps in all directions (both the degree of compression is less, and the valves are smaller, and the weight distribution of the cylinder-piston is worse, and the preparation of the fuel mixture at different operating modes is worse, and diesel fuel ...)
  4. Akim
    Akim 19 August 2013 10: 11 New
    +4
    Another drawback is the lack of the ability to combat tanks and other armored combat vehicles with high security. BMP "Puma" lacks a complex of guided missile weapons

    This is not true. "Puma" can have 4 Euro-Spikes (2 in the module + 2 additional ammunition)
  5. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 19 August 2013 11: 53 New
    +2
    Nice car, but heavy and does not swim
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 13: 16 New
      +1
      Nice car, but heavy and does not swim


      Why does an infantry fighting vehicle have to swim? Tanks don't seem to be floating either.
      1. Akim
        Akim 19 August 2013 13: 30 New
        +5
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        Why does an infantry fighting vehicle have to swim?

        In the area where the Jordan reaches 50 meters, this really is nothing. Or in the sands of the UAE, but Europe is all covered by rivers. Although the German Marder also does not swim, and they somehow cope with this. In general, floating infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers are needed, but not all, but only a part.
        The Germans repeat the mistake of their ancestors - the Teutonic knights.
        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 14: 57 New
          0
          BMP "Puma" should work in conjunction with "Leopards". Are the leopards swimming?
          1. Akim
            Akim 19 August 2013 15: 53 New
            +4
            Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
            Are the leopards swimming?

            No. In the same way, "Soviet" tanks do not float. But in order to ferry tanks in a pontoon way, you need to capture the other side. And it is better for the soldiers to have direct fire support, which can only be provided by floating infantry fighting vehicles.
            1. bask
              bask 19 August 2013 16: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: Akim
              And it’s better for the soldiers to have immediate fire support, which can only be made by amphibious infantry fighting vehicles.

              Floating infantry fighting vehicles, this immediately reduces the security of armored vehicles. BMP 2D in Afghanistan was also not floating.
              Akim, what do you think that there will be a war in Europe? I think not. And the Germans created BMPs based on its use in the hot spots of the planet. And this is Middle and Middle East, Africa. And with the development of engineering technology, the transfer of vehicles is not a big problem. In Russia, it’s S.Kavkaz, cf .. the river depth is 1,5 meters.
              But I’m still closer to the South Korean version of the BMP K-21 (300), after a little preparation capable of forcing, water barriers and the most protected.
              And motorized riflemen should have BMP-T / BTR-T brigades with the same MBT reservation.
              1. Akim
                Akim 19 August 2013 16: 41 New
                +1
                Quote: bask
                do you think that there will be a war in Europe?

                I also like the Korean better. And about the war ... I hope that it will not happen. But the Germans do not change their "Marten" in the army in order to frighten only dushmans.
                1. bask
                  bask 19 August 2013 17: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim

                  I hope she won't. But the Germans do not change their "Marten" in the army in order to frighten only dushmans.

                  I hope so too.
                  But their BTRs ,, Boxser ,, and MBT ,, LEO ,, (though in the Canadian counterpart), they managed to break in in Afghanistan.
                  They sold the technology to the Turks for the production of infantry fighting vehicles ,,, Tolpar ,, maybe not 100%, a copy of the German, but 90% pounds.
                  For the Bundeswehr, they will order a maximum of 1000 units. The rest are for export and sale of production licenses.
                  The Germans could create an infantry fighting vehicle based on the tracked chassis of the PzH-200 self-propelled guns.
                  GSh self-propelled guns designed using units and aggregates MBT Leopard 2. Designed and manufactured by the company, MAK systems gesellschaft GMBH ,,.
                  MTO in the nose, an eight-cylinder MT881 Ka-500 turbocharged diesel engine from MTU is installed, developing a capacity of 100o l / s. The self-propelled gun has a cruising range of 420 km.
                  Individual torsion bar suspension is similar, MBT ,, Leopard ,, Track company ,, Dil ,,.
                  Aft entrance and ready BMP-T. But the Germans created a new BMP. Why?
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 19 August 2013 17: 48 New
                    +1
                    Quote: bask
                    . But the Germans created a new BMP. Why?

                    This is important for nutrition. I don’t read German, but methos at the Indian forum (and he is German), said that it would be a single combat platform (NGP). The weight range will range from 40-71 tons. A new MBT is being developed on this basis. They promise to show in 2015. Generally unification.
                    1. bask
                      bask 19 August 2013 18: 16 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      single combat platform (NGP) The weight range will range from 40-71 tons. Development is ongoing

                      We went along the Russian path (Armata).
                      Or maybe we are in German. But in the end, whoever will do it forward is right.
                      All countries will follow this path. With the creation of a single modular platform.
                  2. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 19 August 2013 17: 49 New
                    +1
                    Quote: bask
                    GSh self-propelled guns designed using units and aggregates MBT Leopard 2. Designed and manufactured by the company, MAK systems gesellschaft GMBH ,,.
                    MTO in the nose, an eight-cylinder MT881 Ka-500 turbocharged diesel engine from MTU is installed, developing a capacity of 100o l / s. The self-propelled gun has a cruising range of 420 km.
                    Individual torsion bar suspension is similar, MBT ,, Leopard ,, Track company ,, Dil ,,.
                    Aft entrance and ready BMP-T. But the Germans created a new BMP. Why?


                    Shatterproof booking. Not enough for BMP.
                    1. bask
                      bask 19 August 2013 18: 19 New
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      Shatterproof booking. Not enough for BMP.

                      Welcome.
                      With such a load capacity GS, you can make reservations like the MBT ,, Leo .. ,,.
                      Here I agree with Akim, the thing is probably all the same in the creation by the Germans of a single platform.
              2. Akim
                Akim 20 August 2013 07: 39 New
                0
                Quote: bask
                .We in Russia is S.Kavkaz, cf .. the depth of the rivers is 1,5 meters.

                I said that not everyone without exception should be either these or those. For example, in a tank brigade, a motorized rifle / mechanized battalion can be increased to 4 company personnel, where three companies will be on heavy infantry fighting vehicles, and one on the lungs + a platoon of self-propelled mortars. Both it and the MOS battery in divisional AGs can be quickly transferred to more complex areas of defense or offensive.
                1. bask
                  bask 20 August 2013 12: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  I said that not everyone without exception should be either these or those. N

                  Akim and here I agree with you. There should be both BTR / BMP-T and av ... seafaring BMP / BTR-S
                  Quote: Akim
                  Both it and the MOS battery in the divisional AGs can be quickly transferred to more complex areas of defense or offensive.

                  And I agree with this post. + Various, vast climatic zones in Russia. Russia is not Israel. There are places where the BMP-T simply will not work. The main application of the BTR / BMP-T is urban development.
                  Therefore, the armored vehicles should be different in mass-dimensional characteristics. But the modular layout and the most unified, according to the nodes and units.
                  1 Heavy platform. 2 Sr .. platform. 3. Lightweight, in light I would be to the wheeled chassis, the proto must have a main gun.
                  As an example SEP, Sweden, a modular platform (light) on a wheeled and tracked chassis.
                  The total weight of the SEP, taking into account the full ammunition load, is 17,5 tons 6/6 and the gantry version. At the same time, 6 tons of them are the carrying capacity. The internal volume is 10 cubic meters, the full volume is 13. The maximum speed is 100 kilometers per hour at the wheel SEP and 85 - tracked version.
                  In my opinion it’s better not to come up with. We need something like that.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 20 August 2013 13: 56 New
                    0
                    Quote: bask
                    In my opinion it’s better not to come up with. We need something like that.

                    But what about a tank? Probably better to have two platforms: one is purely tracked (for example, based on the "Armata"), the other wheeled (on the basis of "Boomerang") and, accordingly, all units of the brigade are equipped with vehicles on their chassis.
                    There are Turks what spectrum of FNSS AV-8 for Malaysia created.
                    Although in your post there is a rational kernel. Apparently Kharkiv residents also think from the repair shop, because they created the tracked BMPV / BMPT-64 (on which you can hang anything and the wheeled BMPT-K-64.

                    PS Eh, I would still swim ...
                    1. hiocraib
                      hiocraib 20 August 2013 14: 02 New
                      0
                      and what’s the coolest thing - all this wunderwafer (Russian, Turkish, Swedish, American, etc.) was bent at the stage of advertising posters and several prototypes ... it doesn’t work as a wunderwafer, whatever you call it.
            2. bask
              bask 19 August 2013 16: 29 New
              0
              ____________________________
              1. ramsi
                ramsi 19 August 2013 16: 55 New
                +1
                but I also don’t understand in any way: the fighters crawl out, crouch bent over in three deaths ...- why not make the hatches additionally open from above on the sides together with the reclining ramp (everything opened, stood up, ran out)? There is a lot of iron, the stiffness of the box is unlikely to suffer
        2. Mister X
          Mister X 19 August 2013 16: 36 New
          +1
          An acceptable level of security, as well as the weight and buoyancy of the BMP, is a topic of ongoing debate.
          I believe that the Akim is right and necessary, and those and others.

          The biggest drawback of the Cougars is I consider its PRICE: from 5 mln.
          I also consider a minus:
          - gun elevation angle: up to 45 degrees
          - the number of seats for the landing: 6 seats
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 19 August 2013 17: 01 New
            +1
            two pontoons on the sides - and swim! The need to force rivers on the move is not so frequent, and it’s risky to drive a war machine without any verification, just like that. And there will be a pause - pontoons will give a lift
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 19 August 2013 20: 13 New
      +3
      Quote: ivshubarin
      Nice car, but heavy and does not swim

      The issue of buoyancy often ends with a debate whether or not it is necessary. No one is hurt by the question of how to find a place for descent on your shore and, most importantly, a place on the other side for a safe exit from the water, and not just an exit, but so that there is no forest, no ravines, not a swamp ... That is the shore may be gentle, but overgrown with reeds, and where there is no reeds there is a yar, albeit not high, but you will not climb onto it. Further, the shore can be kind of gentle, but without shallow water, the equipment will not come out onto such a shore, because there will not be enough surface to engage the caterpillars, and if there is also a fast flow, then the equipment will simply be carried into the thicket of reeds from where it will not come out anymore, because controllability in floating infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers on water is disgusting ...
      1. hiocraib
        hiocraib 19 August 2013 23: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Nayhas
        No one is bothered by the question of how to find a place for descent on your shore and, most importantly, a place on the other side for a safe exit from the water, and not just an exit, but so that there is no further forest, no ravines, not a swamp ...

        Well, why, this question was asked - in exercises, all this is carried out on routes prepared in advance.
        there are also maps with places on the rivers where you can try to do it.
        but as usual - the enemy has the same data and such places will become unsuitable for crossing both engineering and will have a reliable cover.
  6. Maks111
    Maks111 19 August 2013 15: 08 New
    0
    As for me, it’s sooooo heavy. The easiest way is to increase the armor, but they would try to create a BMP or a tank with a normal weight without losing security and price.
  7. Alexey M
    Alexey M 19 August 2013 15: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Tourist Breakfast
    BMP "Puma" should work in conjunction with "Leopards". Are the leopards swimming?

    An infantry fighting vehicle must deliver infantry to the battlefield and support it on the battlefield. Also conduct reconnaissance and capture bridgeheads, including overcoming water obstacles. But how not to support tanks in battle. Armored infantry fighting vehicles serve as protection for the crew and the landing from the gunner and large-caliber weapons and partly from the means of destruction of armored vehicles. If you make the BMP armored tank protection you will get an armored bus with the size of the bus.
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 15: 42 New
      0
      An infantry fighting vehicle must deliver infantry to the battlefield and support it on the battlefield. Also conduct reconnaissance and capture bridgeheads, including overcoming water obstacles. But how not to support tanks in battle. Armored infantry fighting vehicles serve as protection for the crew and the landing from the gunner and large-caliber weapons and partly from the means of destruction of armored vehicles. If you make the BMP armored tank protection you will get an armored bus with the size of the bus.


      There are lighter vehicles for reconnaissance. Including able to overcome water barriers.
      Curious, how do you imagine BMPs that single-handedly force a river under enemy fire, while tanks wait for the engineering units to build a pontoon bridge?
      1. Akim
        Akim 19 August 2013 15: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        I’m curious how you imagine BMPs, which alone force a river under enemy fire,


        Simply. No one says that such infantry fighting vehicles go to the frontier like kamikaze. All this happens after air and artillery bombardment, moreover, the battalion’s mortar battery conducts barrage fire, immediately 400 meters in front of the company, which forces the river on the BMP.
        And army aviation always works.
        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 16: 21 New
          0
          That is, the enemy does not have heavy weapons?
          1. Akim
            Akim 19 August 2013 16: 46 New
            0
            Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
            That is, the enemy does not have heavy weapons?

            Present. Only his vanguard is suppressed. This is a war and unfortunately you can’t do without losses. Not the fact that out of 10 infantry fighting vehicles everyone will get ashore. But this is better than nothing at all. But to smoke the enemy in a different way does not work out.
            1. Tourist Breakfast
              Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 16: 55 New
              0
              But the armored personnel carrier can not cross with the same success in this situation? Since
              "the battalion's mortar battery is conducting defensive fire, directly 400 meters in front of the company, which is crossing the river on the BMP"
              1. Akim
                Akim 19 August 2013 17: 04 New
                0
                Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
                But the armored personnel carrier can not cross with the same success in this situation?

                Can. Moreover, they are now moving away from the division into BMP-BTR. Only the Germans and he does not swim.
                1. Tourist Breakfast
                  Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 21: 00 New
                  -1
                  Only the Germans and he does not swim.


                  BTR "Boxer" is it not floating?
                2. bask
                  bask 19 August 2013 22: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  Can. Moreover, they are now moving away from the division into BMP-BTR. Only the Germans and he is not swimming

                  Yes, the division into infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers now is purely arbitrary.
                  All modern BTR / BMR have a modular design, with the installation of any weapon module.
                  Quote: Mister X
                  The biggest drawback of the Cougars is I consider its PRICE: from 5 mln.

                  The price is yes. But ,, Puma ,, is made only as a BMP, and not as a modular medium platform.
                  Wheel BTR / BMP ,, Boxser ,,, in this matter is more advanced.
                  BMP / BTR ASCOD of the Austrian division of General Dynamics European Land Systems-Steyr GmbH, CV-90 Huglang BAE Systems, more advanced platform armored vehicles. Although it was created around the same time as Puma, and even earlier.
                  ASCOD: BMP, light tank LT105, chassis for SAM, ZSU, ATGMC ATGMC, 81-mm or 120-mm self-propelled mortar AMC120, BREM, BRM (, control and communication vehicle, mobile ANP and ambulance, self-propelled tracked chassis, Donar, Donar ,,.
                  Troopers in the version of BMP-8 fighters.
                  1. hiocraib
                    hiocraib 19 August 2013 23: 13 New
                    +3
                    Quote: bask
                    , Puma,, made only as a BMP, and not as a modular middle platform.

                    do not understand "modularity" as the ability to install and remove certain blocks.
                    modularity - when a 5-6-7 roller machine can be made from a single chassis for specific tasks.
                    nobody will buy separate blocks for a car even in a nightmare (and even more so a few pieces at a price several times higher than the cost of the chassis).
                    here the Boxer loses to Pume - carries unnecessary partitions (the internal volume decreases accordingly, the dimensions and weight increase).

                    if you want an example of modularity - take the G36:
                    1. basic version for the infantry
                    2. landing - shortened
                    3. Special Forces / Police - Ultra Short
                    4. sniper - long.
                    however, only some dreamers dream of carrying interchangeable trunks of different lengths, offal for different calibers, and trunks for them.
                    1. bask
                      bask 20 August 2013 00: 50 New
                      0
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      here the Boxer loses to Pume - carries unnecessary partitions (the internal volume decreases accordingly, the dimensions and weight increase).

                      At BTR, Bokser, I agree, no one will rearrange the modules in combat conditions on the chassis. Yes, and the strength of the structure itself decreases.
                      Under modularity, a single tracked or wheeled chassis (BASIC) is assumed. But weapons, and the purpose can be any. Even in the BTR version.
                      SV-90 in the BTR version, created on the basis of the analysis of the participation of the SV-90 BMP in Afghanistan.


                      Quote: hiocraib
                      however, only some dreamers dream of carrying interchangeable trunks of different lengths,

                      Sorry hiocraid, in the trunks, I didn’t specifically carry the Nazis ... machine gunners in WWII 2 spare barrels for the MG-42 mu. (Purely delitan opinion) soldier
                      1. hiocraib
                        hiocraib 20 August 2013 10: 24 New
                        0
                        Quote: bask
                        .but the Nazis wore ... machine gunners in WWII 2 spare barrels for MG-42 mu. (

                        and not only the Germans. there is only one reason - the "sewing machine" of the Wehrmacht, which provided them with fire superiority and the density of fire, required replacing the barrel after 200 (4 ribbons) rounds of burst. due to overheating of the barrel. the barrel is changed to a second one and they shoot further - this is not "modularity". they also had a thermal protective mitten in the kit;)
                        on Maxim, the problem of barrel overheating was solved by water cooling; on other machine guns, by limiting the rate of fire and the length of a continuous queue.

                        AK starts to spit after three horns (90 shots) continuously. RPK also does not meet the requirements for a machine gun - from the field and throwing from a "single machine gun" based on an assault rifle to normal machine guns in the SA and RA.
  8. Alexey M
    Alexey M 19 August 2013 16: 26 New
    0
    Reconnaissance is being transferred secretly to the enemy’s coastline, and then a strike is launched at the reconnaissance target. During the strike, BMPs transfer personnel and seize the bridgehead. And help to hold it until the engineering troops point the pontoons. This is something like classic.
    But everything happens in life. And an infantry fighting vehicle goes into battle instead of tanks and provides protection in columns. But the main task is to transport personnel across the battlefield and maintain it with fire.
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 19 August 2013 16: 33 New
      0
      But you understand that the BMP / BTR can be either floating, but with bulletproof booking. Or non-swimming, but with armor capable of withstanding the hit of anti-tank weapons and anti-mine protection.
      Are other options possible? In the first case, the Germans have a "Boxer", in the second "Puma" and each has its own niche.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. common man
    common man 19 August 2013 20: 34 New
    +1
    Already spoke out once before. I repeat. The ideal option is when the basic BMP model can swim and has bulletproof booking. And there is an outboard booking kit that significantly enhances protection, but at the same time buoyancy is lost. Movers on the water by the way is not bad to make removable, and the chassis should be designed for maximum load. If the basic version of Puma is made waterfowl, then something like this.
    1. Fofan
      Fofan 19 August 2013 23: 57 New
      0
      Quote: man in the street
      Already spoke out once before. I repeat. The ideal option is when the basic BMP model can swim and has bulletproof booking. And there is an outboard booking kit that significantly enhances protection, but at the same time buoyancy is lost. Movers on the water by the way is not bad to make removable, and the chassis should be designed for maximum load. If the basic version of Puma is made waterfowl, then something like this.

      dada, it’s better to fly, then you don’t have to bother with swimming laughing . comrade shamans just said so.
  11. bublic82009
    bublic82009 19 August 2013 22: 14 New
    0
    the Germans will praise him in full. they will need to sell it.
  12. beifall
    beifall 31 August 2013 05: 36 New
    0
    The price is crazy !!!!!!!!!!!