Catholic Brothers. One thousand years of European integration

86


After the end of the war with Poland, Goebbels wrote in his diary: “The Fuhrer’s judgments about the Poles are contemptuous. More animals than people; completely stupid and amorphous. And along with this, the estate of the gentry is at least a product of the lower classes mixed with the Aryan layer of gentlemen. The abomination of the Poles cannot even be imagined. Their ability to judge anything is zero. "



It will take a long time <...> to civilize these Iroquois. Frederick the Great. Letter to Jean d'Alembert, June 19, 1775
About Poles who became Prussian subjects in 1772


I was amazed in my time by the “direct and honest” answer of Krzysztof Zanussi (Polish director famous for this) to a Russian correspondent. He, trying to “build bridges”, said something about the “rise of Slavic culture” in the modern world. To which Mr. Zanussi answered quite clearly and specifically: “We, the Poles, remember“ our Slavic roots ”when we get drunk or lose the keys to the house ...” Once again, the Polish-Russian fraternization did not take place. So, pan Russian correspondent, do not dirty me with your saliva ...

But it’s funny: from a genetic point of view, Poles are much more pure Slavs than Russians or even Ukrainians. That is just the Poles - they are the most archetypical Slavs. And even outwardly it is noticeable. But do not admit, devils are striped, deny everything. Europeans are Catholics and even Sarmatians. The most notorious and zabibennye Europeans and Catholics ... And all of them story it is connected with Europe and European "values". But the Poles are proud of that, and repel each other.

So to say, Poland is the last and main “bastion of Europe” in the barbarous East ... And the Poles have, so to speak, a European mission ... there is practically no alternative to this in Polish politics.

However, "not everything is so simple and straightforward." In the course of the very Second World War, a lot of frankly unattractive truth came to the surface, but I must mention one very interesting moment for the Russian reader: the Nazi occupation in different countries of Europe looked very different. A person accustomed to the standards of the Great Patriotic War cannot but amaze. That is, for example, the occupation of Holland or Norway was quite a “civilized” one, the occupation of Denmark was “exemplary” in general, I don’t know why.

And even on the territory of occupied France, nothing "particularly terrible", by the standards of the war, did not occur. It is quite difficult for us in Russia to perceive it, but it was so. The occupation of Western Europe is one thing; the Eastern is somewhat different. Yes, Hitler really occupied "the whole of Europe" - this is so, only he did in different countries in a fundamentally different format. This is perceived, of course, with difficulty, but nevertheless - it was so.

And the attitude in Germany to the Soviet and American prisoners of war was very different. Fundamentally. And here all the fun begins, and what category did the “Europeans” from Poland fall into? After all, even in the occupied Czech Republic everything was calm and relatively civilized, Slovakia even received quasi-independence from the Fuhrer ... And what happened in Poland?

And in Poland everything was very, very interesting ... In general, the history of Hitler-Poland relations in itself is a reason for a large and good research (and not just one!). An interesting topic, unusual. Everyone starts to look at it from 1 September 1939 of the year and loudly cry out loud ... However, in fact, the most interesting was before ... 1 September is the final, the end, no more. But there was a plot, and a climax, and it was all much, much earlier.

So, Warsaw just did not consider Germany Hitler as an enemy ... Warsaw was just trying to be friends with Germany against Russia. And in "democratic" Poland there was even more anti-Semitism than the Fuhrer in Germany (Polish Jews fled to the Third Reich!). In general, the problem of 1 September was that the Polish military doctrine was built "back to the West, facing east".

And when the USSR is accused of attacking "neutral Poland", they somehow forget to cite evidence and justification for this very "neutrality." Comrade Rezun was trampled down here repeatedly, telling horror stories about the “terrible and stupid Stalin” who broke the “Polish wall” with Hitler. The trouble is that Poland was not the “wall” ... One such “small” logical substitution ... and all further arguments lose their meaning. Since its formation after the WWI, Poland has been a pronounced Russophobic state, oriented strictly to the West. That is, the ally of Britain / France and the enemy of Russia ... and nothing has changed here until the year of 1939. Domestic policies of the Polish Republic could undergo some evolution, but with respect to Moscow / London, everything was clear.

And yes, Poland actively cooperated with Hitler who came to power in Germany, that is, relations with Hitler Germany were much better than with Soviet Russia. That was, that was. In 20-e / 30-s in Moscow quite seriously considered Poland as a military threat ... This is all so, in short ... Poland did not make any attempts to establish good relations with the USSR and did not intend to do the same thing with “Wehrmacht” the east was quite a treat.

Therefore, we consider 1 of September 1939 of the year as a great tragedy, and 17 of September as a day of some “aggression” is rather strange. Poland was not a kind of “neutral state,” especially a state friendly to Russia. Poland 30-x is the enemy of Russia, the satellite of England / France and a potential ally of the Wehrmacht. And its defeat is the destruction of one enemy of Russia by the hands of another, even so.

But what did the German occupation bring directly to the Poles? No, they were treated somewhat better than with the same Jews, but in fact, arbitrariness and lawlessness reigned in the territory of the “general-governorship”. By European (not by Soviet!) Standards, things were happening there rather scary. But why? They are Europeans, russophobes and Catholics (like the Pope and Hitler!). What is the problem?

Catholic Brothers. One thousand years of European integration


The problem was that their Germans for Europeans and even for people did not hold. Fundamentally and categorically. And during the 1939-1945 period, this was clearly demonstrated: about 6 millions of Poles were destroyed. And after all this ... today everything begins again! Although during the Second World War “the most correct Europeans, from the very right side of the history” ignored the difference between Russians and Poles - the attitude was very similar.

But for some reason, modern Poles are convinced that the Russians are one thing, and their proud people is a completely different matter ... For some reason, the history of the German punitive detachments does not confirm this in any way. None of the words at all. The Poles were completely treated as "racially inferior Slavs." No options. There are no Czechs and no Slovaks, and no Croats (none of whom shouted about their “Europeanness” and “historical mission to defend Europe”) ... Namely, to the European Catholic Poles - yes. Paradox, is not it?

As the well-known Joseph Schweik used to say: “The Other Magyar himself is not to blame for being a Magyar” (immersing Vodicka, a sapper, in full prostration). So personally, I would be extremely sad to be a Pole - some kind of absurd and complete nonsense. During the occupation of Poland, German Catholics, without thinking and reflexing for a second, “let into the expense” the Catholic Poles as Hottentots or Sioux Indians ... But Poland historically competed with France for the title of the most faithful daughter of the Holy Catholic Church ... And you ... And even the Pope somehow did not intervene for them ... "Abydna", you see.

Splitting his whole forehead, worshiping the Roman Catholic Church ... and remaining a worthless native in the eyes of even German Catholics ... It is illogical somehow, wrong ... I would probably even burst into tears from impotence, if I were a Pole ... One thousand years of Catholicism without a single European alternative but even the Austrian-Catholic, who headed the neighboring Germany (Hitler - Austrian German!), does not see a person in you ...

But it was the Pole-Catholic Jan Sobessky who saved Vienna from the bloodthirsty janissaries! So what? Where is the gratitude of Adolf Aloisovich Schilkgruber, a genuine Austrian patriot of the Catholic religion? And not her! Instead of “gratitude” - the operation “Tannenberg”. How can you not get drunk to the position of riz ... And after all, they are getting drunk! Poles in Europe are tightly associated with alcoholism, and this is not by chance ... In my opinion, if, as they say, being Russian is difficult, but interesting, then being a Pole ... is somehow hopeless and illogical ...

And before Adolf Hitler of ours, the Germans (Prussian and Austrian) treated the “Europolians” quite like a cattle ... it’s if someone “fascism” rushes to expose ... So, don’tиgive. That is, the whole charm of the situation is that the Poles are positioning themselves solely as 100% Europeans, and they have always done so, opposing themselves to the same barbaric Muscovites. However ... however, the Europeans of the "first grade" themselves for some reason stubbornly do not hold them.

All the same for different French and Germans, they are the exotic east. It’s just that some of us here are trying to prove that Russia is perceived badly in the West because it is perceived through Poland. It remains to understand what is perceived by Poland itself.

But, unlike Ukraine and even Russia, and especially Turkey, the Poles have never had any alternative options in geopolitics and culture - they have not been considered in principle. Only Europe! Only the Holy See in Rome! It did not help, however ... How much you do not howl with wolves, you will not become yours there. The fact is that Tuski and Kaczynski are different there so confidently and greyhound behave that many inhabitants of Zhmerinka / Uryupinsk have the wrong impression that here it is, Europe in full growth!

But it must be well understood that graph titles are usually solicited by wealthy commoners, and not by viscounts. That is, the positioning of Poles themselves as genuine, true and authentic Europeans in fact does not mean anything.

In general, the fate of Eastern Europe was largely decided after the Americans removed the USSR from the occupation of Japan completely and irrevocably. After that, and also after the creation of the NATO bloc, the history of Eastern Europe took a completely definite path. But in principle there were other options. But no one wanted to save Poland. Why is she? The famous Warsaw Uprising of 1944 of the year ... And then for some reason, Russia was accused of defeating it all at once - allegedly did not help. But who organized this rebellion? Who planned it? Whose interests were taken into account?

Obviously, not the Polish people. Overthrow the power of the Germans and organize its own government — that was the real purpose of the uprising inspired from London. The uprising is not in aid of the Red Army, but "in spite" of the Red Army. If the success of the Warsaw Uprising was so important to the Western ally, then you should have thrown your gallant paratroopers there ... Impossible? Too far? Then it was necessary to plan this uprising together with Stalin. If anything, then Comrade Stalin knew how to keep secrets better than anyone else.

But the Red Army was faced with the fact - at the most inopportune moment (the offensive potential of the Soviet troops was already exhausted) this Warsaw Uprising broke out. All claims for help must be answered simply: what kind of help was agreed with the Supreme Command Headquarters? No? Then what do you want? Uprising broke out suddenly and "spontaneously"? Not funny.

That is, the uprising was incited from London, and it was the Russians who were supposed to bear the responsibility for it, somehow illogical. In fact, everyone is responsible for their own and only for their actions and decisions. The lords and sirs kindled the slaughter in Warsaw before its very liberation - it is their fault, their responsibility. In the 1944 year, the Poles were used "in the dark", as was roughly the case in 1939. In principle, the Poles in 1944 might already be smarter ... But they did not. Some historical paradox is observed: negative selection for signs of intelligence.

In the 1939 year, the Poles were dragged into (one in one) in a one-on-one war with Nazi Germany. If the Poles knew that there would be no help, it would have made sense not to fight, but to make political concessions to Hitler. But their pulled in и got into trouble in this war, literally "voluntarily pushed into the pool with crocodiles" (there is such an old anecdote). The Poles were not going to "become heroes posthumously and convert to Islam." it then such a heroic myth was invented. Poles stupidly used to incite war.

And in 1944, they were also used stupidly. Europeans say? Something is not similar to the behavior or in relation to them. Rather, there are some “sipai”, some “colonial troops”, a kind of native tribe during the Anglo-French confrontation in North America. And on the "Europeans" they somehow do not pull.

The tragedy of the Polish people was not in “bad Stalin”, but in the fact that both in 1939 and 1944, and after WWII, the Anglo-Saxons sold and betrayed them, and used them as small change coins in large geopolitical games. Funny such a thing: in all respects Poland could become a great Eastern European power (or at least medium). At the time of Ivan the Terrible and later - she was richer, more crowded and enlightened by Mother Russia.

The Poles are quite a nationally-oriented and efficient people, and Poland could have become the “second France” (sorry, Ukrainian brothers, but alas, alas). The trouble was hidden in the heads of the Polish elite (both in the 16 century and in the 20 century). The potential of the Polish people for centuries was wasted because of a completely inadequate foreign and domestic policy. That is, the concept of the Polish state itself was somewhat flawed, otherwise it would be absolutely impossible to explain the series of catastrophes that befell this country in 17 / 18 / 20 centuries.

Once again: the initial base for the creation of the "Eastern European Empire" was very, very powerful (much better than that of the Moscow kings), Ivan Solonevich in his capital work "The People's Monarchy" spoke out very clearly about this. And you can't argue ... But the very concept of the “European Catholic Sarmatian Power and the Last Bastion of Europe” turned out to be disastrous as, in principle, the “golden liberties” of the gentry.

As a result, Poland has become a kind of "geopolitical ridicule." And here, you know, suddenly, the “end of history”, NATO and the complete and final European integration ... you know, somehow they have doubts. Too clearly and specifically "first-class Europeans" have demonstrated How they belong to the Polish people. And throughout the new and recent history. And when the Kingdom of Poland, a thousand years ago, was just beginning its sorrowful European way, the Pope himself had not even suspected the existence of a certain “America.”

But go and see: the Americans today are even “better” than the Europeans (one step higher than the French and Germans), while the Polish “Catholic brothers” continue to jump out of their pants, trying to become on the same level with authentic and authentic European representatives civilization.

86 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +12
      1 July 2017 07: 42
      Agree with Goebbels or something? But it will already be agreement with the policy of Nazism am Although the opinion about "abomination" is very clear. In the Smolensk region’s small homeland, I met people with Polish surnames and quite often emphasizing their Polish roots .. They had some kind of arrogance. What does European integration have to do with it? In the USSR?
      1. +9
        1 July 2017 09: 02
        Well, why do we agree precisely with Goebels? Really in Russia about the Poles did not work out their opinion? have you contacted the Pshekhs?
      2. 0
        1 July 2017 09: 26
        Quote: 210ox
        On the small homeland Smolensk I met people with Polish surnames and quite often emphasizing their Polish roots

        I wonder where?
        In Vyazemsky, Gagarinsky and Temkinsky-did not have to meet ....
        1. +5
          1 July 2017 12: 33
          If we consider Goebbels not as one of the leaders of the NSDAP, but as just a person, he said clever words.
          About the photo. He looked and understood why Motherland is holding a sword in his hands!
        2. +1
          1 July 2017 14: 49
          In Smolensk, Rudne. Four in different years ... Three of them were very proud. Well, maybe they simply exaggerated their significance. It happens. However, in all nations and nationalities there are different ones.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: 210ox
          On the small homeland Smolensk I met people with Polish surnames and quite often emphasizing their Polish roots

          I wonder where?
          In Vyazemsky, Gagarinsky and Temkinsky-did not have to meet ....
      3. +2
        1 July 2017 13: 01
        Quote: 210ox
        Agree with Goebbels or something? But it will already be agreement with the policy of Nazism

        You can agree with another character.
        “The heroic character traits of the Polish people,” wrote Churchill, “should not force us to turn a blind eye to his recklessness and ingratitude, which for centuries caused him immeasurable suffering ... It must be considered a secret and tragedy of European history that a people capable of any heroism, individual representatives of which are talented, valiant, charming, constantly displaying such huge flaws in almost all aspects of their state life. Glory in times of rebellion and grief; infamy and shame during periods of triumph. The bravest of the brave too often have been led by the most infamous of the vile! And yet there were always two Poland: one of them fought for the truth, and the other creeped into meanness. ”
        1. 0
          3 July 2017 15: 29
          Translated into Russian - "Great cannon fodder for our plans."
  2. +11
    1 July 2017 06: 10
    Everything is simpler: Poland wanted to become like Russia, huge and great. But this has become-RUSSIA.
    And these eternal losers - forever hate her for their failure.
    From this, it is both an outpost and a mongrel: the main thing is to be against Russia .....
    1. +6
      1 July 2017 09: 01
      Poles - a nation notorious for historical grievances. Hence the mentality of this.
      1. +3
        1 July 2017 13: 48
        The point is not bad or good Poles .. it’s somehow less interesting
        the point is why them catholic european the choice did not bring them bonuses
        in the same Europe.
        1. 0
          3 July 2017 15: 32
          Why didn't you bring it? He brought it. Not for everyone. To be a bargaining chip in geopolitics and a source of big money for Polish leaders for betraying the interests of their country.
    2. +1
      3 July 2017 00: 18
      Quote: Olgovich
      Everything is simpler: Poland wanted to become like Russia, huge and great. But this has become-RUSSIA.

      Poland wanted to become a colonial empire - like Britain, France, Spain once, like the USA now. And they hate Russians - as their failed slaves.
      Therefore, the Third Reich did not enter into an alliance with Poland because the nefig will creep into the alien (again, as a result of which failed) colonies.
      1. 0
        3 July 2017 15: 33
        Poland quarreled with Hitler Germany clearly at the direction of London. Although before that, even the Jews jointly spread rot.
  3. +6
    1 July 2017 06: 14
    : From a genetic point of view, Poles are much cleaner Slavs than Russians or even Ukrainians.
    I did not read further. Author, when will you measure the skulls?
    1. +2
      1 July 2017 07: 26
      Yes, according to recent studies - Russians are more likely to be Finno-Ugric at their core
      and only then the Slavs ... (there is such information)
      And yes, Germans are really characterized by elongated skulls, in contrast to Russian round-headed
      But this has nothing to do with some higher / lower
      Do not confuse realities with the theoretical fabrications of politicians
      1. 0
        1 July 2017 07: 48
        in Germany there are as many as 6 types, they are round-headed and have already become entangled in them
        1. +3
          1 July 2017 08: 58
          Quote: wazza
          in Germany as many as 6 types .. and they themselves are already confused

          The most interesting thing is that at first the British imposed all these racial tricks on them (the term “Aryans” they introduced into science, the British), a little later the Americans made a fuss about it. Although, frankly, it still began in the French kingdom, the French gave the original idea of ​​racial separation of people.
      2. +5
        1 July 2017 08: 11
        Quote: Olezhek
        Yes, according to recent studies - Russians are more likely to be Finno-Ugric at their core

        Such researchers at 1945 were hung up.
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 10: 41
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Such researchers were hanged in 1945

          Genetics?
      3. +7
        1 July 2017 08: 12
        Quote: Olezhek
        according to recent studies, Russians are more likely Finno-Finns at their core .. and only then Slavs ...

        Fin Finances ??? Are you talking about this, about the carriers of the South Chinese tribes of the genus "NO", N1b1 or N1c1? Be careful with the information. So far, the largest percentage of Russian genetics is among Pomeranian Pomors in Prussia, there are more than 90% of R1a1 carriers, in China there are now 90 million R1a1 carriers, and in Russia there are three times less. More than in China, only in India. Representatives of the Finno-Ugric tribe appeared on the territory of the Russian Plain about a millennium ago, in modern Finland even later, and the term “Finland” itself is of pure Russian-language origin from the word “Venland” - the country (land) of Venets, on the “Venetian Gulf” ( now the Baltic - it seems that it is not a Russian term). A.Romanov writes about measuring skulls, it’s from race research, and the article deals with genetics, this is another area of ​​science, apparently “genealogy”, and it is not prohibited anywhere.
      4. +1
        1 July 2017 10: 06
        Quote: Olezhek
        Yes, according to recent studies - Russians are more likely to be Finno-Ugric at their core

        Please tell the world of the authors of these "studies" :))))))
      5. avt
        +3
        1 July 2017 14: 54
        Quote: Olezhek
        Yes, according to recent studies - Russians are more likely to be Finno-Ugric at their core
        and only then the Slavs ... (there is such information)

        And here Svidomikus vulgaris (ordinary) was drawn with Bebik’s Galician teachings. Just as you look at the true representatives of the Galician Slavs on our TV flickering like Zhivotovsky, or there Zaporozhtseva, another kind of new flickering began, it’s immediately obvious that the Aryans-Slavs are two-meter high blue eyes and light brown. bully
        Quote: Olezhek
        But this has nothing to do with some higher / lower

        This type looked in the mirror and was upset? bully And try on compasses, compasses, you look and feel better.
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Such researchers at 1945 were hung up.

        Well, why only hanged? They fired and threw grenades at the caches.
      6. +3
        1 July 2017 16: 10
        Quote: Olezhek
        Yes, according to recent studies - Russians are more likely to be Finno-Ugric at their core
        and only then the Slavs ... (there is such information)

        Nothing like this. The Russians are based on the Slavs. Read genetic research, including Western scientists.
      7. +1
        3 July 2017 00: 25
        Quote: Olezhek
        Yes, according to recent studies - Russians are more likely to be Finno-Ugric at their core

        Olezhek you would go to ukrosayt type censor, they will appreciate and love you there.
      8. 0
        3 July 2017 15: 34
        It is always interesting to read the opinions of people who do not understand in anthropology and genetics. They know everything better than specialists.
    2. +4
      1 July 2017 08: 37
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      .. when will you measure the skulls?

      Well, you can’t be so rude. Genetic research is not banned anywhere in the world, it is not racism at all. For example: As soon as the racists do not call the great poet A.S. Pushkin, and his soul and genetics (genus - "R1a1") are purely Russian, he is also a male descendant of a nobleman from the territory of modern Germany. Even in his works, he often set the date not according to the new-fangled stupid "European" (Julian-Gregorian) calendar, but according to the ancient Russian, according to which the 7525th summer is now. So what about the skulls, then I think that you have too much.
      1. +1
        1 July 2017 13: 20
        Quote: venaya
        Well, you can’t be so rude. Genetic research is not banned anywhere in the world, it is not racism at all.

        And even if the Finno-Ugric genes are present in the blood, what does this change in the current confrontation between Russia and Europe (+ USA)? Does someone have more justified requests for world domination? Or did God give greater preferences for posthumous distribution? Digging in gene differences is the destiny of narrow specialists. What we need more is a practical look at the relationship between, in this case, Russia and Poland. And the conclusion is simple, Poland, with rare exceptions, has been an irreconcilable enemy of Russia throughout its history, and remains the same. We should not be misled by common Slavic roots. As the saying goes, a heretic is worse than a non-Christian. So in this case. We will confront for a very long time, most likely, always. From the nearest points of a possible conflict with the Poles, I see a section of Ukraine. Throughout their history, the Poles strove for an empire from sea to sea. This means that at the slightest opportunity, the Poles will jump out of their pants just to "pull" the Black Sea coast. And if we allow them, they will create an impenetrable land "fence" from Russia to Europe. Therefore, we must be prepared in the future to regain the Left-Bank Ukraine and the Odessa region, i.e. what until 1917 was an integral part of Russia.
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 17: 03
          Quote: ARES623
          we must be prepared in the future to regain ... that which until 1917 was an integral part of Russia.

          In this I do not completely agree with you. Until the 17th year, there was no "Ukraine" (Polish terminology "Ukrana") by definition, just once, in ancient times, it was a colony of the Commonwealth. All of this is Russia, Russia, the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR, and the word Poland - of Latin origin (Polonia), was previously simply Volya Rus, part of the Russian Varangians, Porussia, etc. Everything is so confused now that few people can and want to figure it out, it's too complicated, laziness and many interfere. I myself also believe that a single people (people, not a foggy "nation") really needs to be united by all possible forces.
          1. +3
            1 July 2017 20: 37
            Quote: venaya
            Until the 17th year, there was no "Ukraine" (Polish terminology "Ukrana") by definition, just once, in ancient times, it was a colony of the Commonwealth

            If you mean precisely the 17th year from PX, then no one spoke about Russia either. And if your 17 = 1917, then I will disappoint you, Ukraine already existed, but not in the sense of the official name of some administrative unit of the territory, but something like the name of the outskirts of the state. Somewhere close to Siberia, Siberia is, as part of Russia, but it does not exist as an administrative unit. In the Ipatiev Chronicle under 6695 (1187) the year Pereyaslavl "Ukraine" is mentioned, under 6697 (1189) the year. - Galician "Ukraine", under 6721 (1213) - the border cities of this Galician "Ukraine" are listed: Brest, Ugrovsk, Vereshchin, Pillar, Komov. In the I Pskov Chronicle under 6779 (1271) - it refers to the villages of the Pskov "Ukraine". In the Russian-Lithuanian treaties of the XV century. mentions "local places", "Ukrainian places", "Ukrainian places", which are understood as Smolensk, Lyubutsk, Mtsensk. In the Russian legislation of the XVII century. often mentioned are "Ukraina", "Ukrainian cities", "Sovereign Ukrainians", "Our Ukrainians", "Ukrainian / Ukrainian cities of the wild field", "Ukrainian cities", it is said about the presence of military people "at the sovereign service in Ukraine".
            Ukrainians were long before 1917. In the Ipatiev Chronicle, under 6776 (1268), the inhabitants of the Polish borderland are mentioned - "Lyakhov Oukrainians" ("... and take the bakhaut news, they were given to them Lyakhov Oukrainians"). In the Russian-Lithuanian treaties and embassy documents of the middle of the XV - I third of the XVI centuries. they are called "Ukrainians", "Our Ukrainian people", "Ukrainian servants", "Ukrainian people", "Ukrainians", i.e. residents of Smolensk, Lubutsk, Mtsensk. In the Moscow state, “Ukrainians” were originally called military people (border guards) who served in the Oka Ukraine - in Upper and Middle Pochye - against the Crimeans. In March 1648, Moscow duma clerk Ivan Gavrenev wrote a note in the Bit Order on the preparation of a number of cases for the report, in which, in particular, under the sixth paragraph it was said briefly: "Do not keep the Ukrainians who are why and let them go." This, t.s. very briefly about a story that few people are passionate about. History, in general, is a very "muddy" science, in the knowledge of which, according to Mr. F. Engels, humanity is very far behind.
            Quote: venaya
            I myself also believe that a single people (people, not a foggy "nation") really needs to be united by all possible forces.

            In fact, the Ukrainians and I initially, in the immemorial times of the 12-14 centuries, may have been very close peoples, but since then much water has flowed. Even the Don Cossacks are no longer Tula, and even more so not Tyumen. And Ukrainians from Russians are a completely different branch of development. At the same time, Slobozhanshchina (Sumy, Kharkov) and the South-East are closer to us, but there are differences between them. The center of Ukraine is already much more different from us. But Volyn and Galicia, which spent a long time under Austro-Hungarian and Polish pressure, to put it mildly, it’s generally difficult to call relatives. So, do not throw yourself in their arms if you do not want to get a knife in the side.
            1. +1
              1 July 2017 21: 38
              Quote: ARES623
              If you mean precisely the 17th year from PX, then no one spoke about Russia either.

              This is perhaps the only statement above that I clearly disagree with and there are numerous rebuttals to this. A. Klesov on genetics determines the age of the Russians at 5 thousand years, but he himself refers to the "Book of Veles", and in it the age increases to the 21st thousand years. Recently, due to the use of computer technology, linguists calculated the age of the common proto-language, it turned out 30-40 thousand years and this language turned out to be surprisingly still Russian, though a very ancient version. It is from him that all the other languages ​​of the world are swayed. The laboratory of the oldest forms of writing at the Academy of Sciences of the Russian Federation discovers ancient forms of writing whose age here is even scary to publish, I won’t. Our calendar (last) is already 7525 years old, the term Rus with various prefixes has been used for about the same time. With all the rest, with your arguments, I agree, especially that “Ukrainian” in Great Russian really means “frontier guard”, but in the Polish dialect “Ukrainian” is like a colonist from Lesser Poland in the colony “Ukraina”, where local slaves lived, also another word was used. So, the word Rus has always been used, and the term "Europe" was finally replaced in the XNUMXth century. Few people know all this and in this, in knowledge that few people are interested in is a really big problem, in today's education itself.
              1. 0
                1 July 2017 22: 19
                Quote: venaya
                A. Klesov on genetics determines the age of Rus at 5 thousand years, but he himself refers to the "Book of Veles"

                Mr. Professor is a specialist in chemistry and biochemistry, but not a linguist. The definition of haplogroups to which Russians belong does not at all determine the age of the term. So here you are most likely mistaken. Moreover, today there is no common understanding among linguistic historians on the origin of the term "Rus", "Russians" and other derivatives. About a dozen versions, however, attribute the birth of the term to the region of 8-10 centuries. Just Klesov mentioned the people by their current name. And there are a lot of questions to the Veles Book. The bulk of historians writing textbooks cited in the scientific community tend to be false and do not consider it as a reliable source. I myself am not a historian, so I usually adhere to the point of view of industry authorities.
                1. +3
                  1 July 2017 23: 02
                  Quote: ARES623
                  on origin of the term "Russia" ... About a dozen versionsnevertheless, the term’s birth belongs to the region of 8-10 centuries.

                  Let them relate to themselves, for this they have very good reasons. For example: M. Lomonosov was sentenced to death for the fact that he found in his Pomeranian sources an old Russian calendar with an age of 399 thousand years. This story is known to all interested, and today it is still too dangerous to produce sober textbooks. Look at the maps of Porussia from the 3rd to the 9th century, where the terms Rus with prefixes flash everywhere. Serbian prof. found a stone sarcophagus with an age of about 7 thousand years, the word Rus appears on the inscriptions there, and in Serbia itself there is still the city of "Raska". Ever since they wrote the Torahtorusiki rely on this religious basis: a step to the side - shooting on the spot. This is a serious matter, this can be determined by their very strange behavior, which can be seen even on this site.
                  1. +1
                    1 July 2017 23: 25
                    I'm sorry, I’m not digging into this depth. Even if someone proves that the Ukrainians dug the Black Sea together with the Russians, I am not hotter from this. The Poles will still remain our enemies, and the Ukrainians will remain traitors. hi
      2. 0
        3 July 2017 07: 38
        Quote: venaya
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        .. when will you measure the skulls?

        Well, you can’t be so rude. Genetic research is not banned anywhere in the world, it is not racism at all. For example: As soon as the racists do not call the great poet A.S. Pushkin, and his soul and genetics (genus - "R1a1") are purely Russian, he is also a male descendant of a nobleman from the territory of modern Germany. Even in his works, he often set the date not according to the new-fangled stupid "European" (Julian-Gregorian) calendar, but according to the ancient Russian, according to which the 7525th summer is now. So what about the skulls, then I think that you have too much.

        7526 year
    3. 0
      2 July 2017 16: 02
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      I did not read further. Author, when will you measure the skulls?

      Sanya. what happened to you - the epaulet "shed" and the small-scale flag? belay
  4. +2
    1 July 2017 06: 15
    Most Germans are Lutheran Protestants.
    1. +1
      1 July 2017 06: 33
      Especially in Bavaria ...
      At least during the Third Reich
      percent of Catholics and Lutherans are close enough
      1. +6
        1 July 2017 06: 57
        Bavaria is the only land where the majority of Catholics
        almost all of the Nazis were "neo-pagans."
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 07: 03
          The number of believers in Germany’s two largest denominations - Catholics and Protestants - continues to decline. The Evangelical Church in Germany (ECG), the largest Protestant association in the country, for the first time since the reunification of Germany in 1990, was reduced to less than 25 million parishioners.
          At the end of 2007, the ECG numbered 24.83 million believers (with a total German population of 82 million people). Over the past five years, the number of German Protestants has fallen by more than a million. For 2007 alone, compared with the previous year, the number of Protestants decreased by approximately 268 000 people.
          The number of believers in the Roman Catholic Church in 2007 also fell, but less than in the ECG. The total number of Catholics was 25.46 million, which is approximately 224 000 less than in the 2006 year.
          During the reunification of Germany in 1990, there were several more Protestants than Catholics throughout the country. Most of the former East German lands were located in the historical center of Protestantism - where the reformer Martin Luther lived and worked in the 16th century.
          1. 0
            1 July 2017 07: 55
            This is the data for the German financial fiscal service related to the collection of church tax through the state,
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Церковный_налог_в_Г
            Germany
            in the best traditions of the reformation, the Catholic Church began to refuse the abandoned Catholics (before the secular state) to hold communion and everything else in their churches, so official Catholics again became "majority" lol
            German Communists and Stasi nothing to do with
          2. 0
            1 July 2017 08: 46
            see the "Refuse to Pay" link there,
            non-Catholic communities, if their parishioner has called before the "secular" tax collectors not a member of the church, writing a refusal of church tax through their state, this is a light bulb ...
            Catholics alas can not.
            somehow strange it turns out the church is separated from the state ... Yes
        2. +1
          1 July 2017 11: 10
          Quote: wazza
          almost all of the Nazis were "neo-pagans."

          And at the top echelon of power in the 3rd Reich, in the environment closest to Hitler, there were representatives of another, quite modern religious denomination, pay attention to this fact.
          1. +1
            1 July 2017 17: 19
            Tibetans? The same "Genghisides" according to Klimov ...
            1. 0
              1 July 2017 23: 19
              What kind of “Tibetans” or “genghisids” did you find in the higher echelons of power of the 3rd Reich in the immediate circle of A. Hitler? Open your eyes, look at them, they all belong to a fairly powerful religious denomination, no Tibetans there smell like a mile away.
              1. +1
                2 July 2017 01: 10
                google ... their friendly "genghisids" all from the same denomination were at the helm in the USSR until 1937
                1. +1
                  2 July 2017 16: 06
                  Quote: wazza
                  "Genghisides" all from the same confession were at the helm in the USSR until 1937

                  And after the death of Stalin, their seedlings sprouted. Unfortunately.
                  1. +2
                    2 July 2017 20: 28
                    even the massive export to Israel did not help Yes
  5. 0
    1 July 2017 06: 16
    So, Warsaw just did not consider Hitler Germany as an enemy ...
    He laughed !!! Poland considered Germany as one of the main opponents until 1937 !!!
    1. +2
      1 July 2017 06: 34
      But strategically the defense was built facing east ...
      1. 0
        1 July 2017 08: 56
        Of course, to defend against the USSR, but to Germany to file !!! Until the year 37, Warsaw was developing plans to capture Prussia and Silesia
  6. +5
    1 July 2017 06: 24
    The author accurately noted about the Polish * kooky *, he just did not voice the century-old dream that the papal throne planned for each Pole, but in vain.
    Today in Poland they say a lot of things, because in the courtyard of the age of * democracy * the rhetoric is appropriate, about the * light of democracy * that they bring to their neighbors.
    Here in the last century, everything was simpler and claims to the colonies and slaves were more open.
    In Poland, they try to educate every Pole as a future * democratizer * and they do not spare money for it, only they cannot be programmed. Although the figures of cinema and writers and even the philosophical faculties in Polish universities are trying.
  7. +1
    1 July 2017 06: 41
    And in the period 1939-1945 it was very clearly demonstrated: about 6 million Poles were destroyed.

    ... and the current Poles, who are the monuments to our soldiers who liberated Poland from fascism, know these figures? ...
    ... doubts are mild ...
  8. +1
    1 July 2017 06: 44
    How is it - "wacky god that I am not a Pole"? wassat Well, by and large, the Poles want to "lie" under someone, so you need to less attention to them! Let them at least take massively Ukrainian citizenship lol , just to roll a barrel less on us. ..
  9. +8
    1 July 2017 06: 58
    In Poland, I had to be on business trips many times in the 80s. It was necessary to help Polish enterprises to master new types of weapons and military equipment and GN products. At first, I was struck by a large number of nuns on the streets of cities, then we, with the command of the USSR Air Force, got used to it. But how they had to be taught to organize production is horror. I was also struck by the fact that there was a monument to Mikhalchik on the Warsaw street (Polish Prime Minister, who was trying to escape to London in 1939), and next to it was a monument to a Polish boy who was bringing cartridges to resistance fighters who had raised an uprising against the Nazis. These monuments were proudly shown to me by the Deputy Prime Minister of Poland. In general, the country is beautiful, but not friendly to us. It's a pity. I have the honor.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. 0
    1 July 2017 07: 12
    If Catherine II and Alexander I did not pick up this “restless people,” there would be no such problem with Poland. With the wounded pride of the "Commonwealth," the Germans would deal with ....
    1. 0
      1 July 2017 07: 34
      But Stalin (according to historical legend) did not need a single Pole on his territory ...
      1. +5
        1 July 2017 07: 58
        except Marshal Rokossovsky? the coolest Soviet marshal was a Pole,
        and unlike most others, it’s a very shore of Russian soldiers.
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 19: 11
          This is what Stalin said during the demarcation of Poland and Soviet Ukraine after WWII if anyone does not know ...
          But Rokossovsky did not like the Poles ...
          1. 0
            2 July 2017 01: 52
            it was so in fact, and most of the others did not like Russians.
  12. 0
    1 July 2017 07: 34
    A mongrel, she is a mongrel in Africa.
  13. +5
    1 July 2017 07: 46
    so Europe "grew" yet another Czarians, serfs of the Pshekskys
  14. +7
    1 July 2017 08: 12
    Poles - at 60% consist of descendants of the Aryans, Russians - at 50%.

    The difference is different: Russians have been living continuously in their own state for over 1100 years, Poles are only the last 72 years. During the 250 years after the partition of Poland between the three neighboring states, the Poles turned into prostitutes - they are gladly sold to those who pay the most. It used to pay the USSR, now it pays the EU. Therefore, they were treated accordingly by the "allies" of Britain and France in September 1939, and now by the United States and Germany.

    In this sense, the Poles are not Slavs - the Polish method of making a living by spreading legs is not popular with us.

    PS Of the 6 millions of Polish residents killed in WWII, the vast majority were local Jews, extradited by the Gestapo ethnic Poles.
    1. +2
      1 July 2017 09: 30
      As for the Poles, historically, the Smolensk region’s land was a grave pit for them. There, one little-chilled one hurried on a plane, managed to do everything, was not late. So they found two more people in his coffin, whom did they consider in Katyn?
    2. 0
      3 July 2017 00: 48
      Quote: Operator
      Poles - at 60% consist of descendants of the Aryans, Russians - at 50%.

      The Poles, by their Western Catholic nature, are all fascists; they destroyed all the "non-Poles" on their territory. Therefore, 60%, but there is nothing to be proud of.
      1. 0
        3 July 2017 09: 42
        The ancestors of the Aryan Slavs came to Europe about 12000 years ago, immediately after the last glaciation, therefore their descendants (Poles, Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, etc.) are autochthonous (indigenous) inhabitants of their countries

        By the way, according to the subclade of their haplotype and the Tale of Bygone Years, the direct descendants of the Poles themselves are the Eastern Slavs - Radimichi, who still make up a significant population of Moscow and the Moscow region. They came here under the leadership of the leader Radko from the region of the Sozh River (the current Gomel and Mogilev regions of Belarus).
  15. +2
    1 July 2017 09: 16
    Questions regarding religion may not be one-purpose, but:
    -The Vatican State gained its statehood after Mussolini’s decision to close the "Roman Question", after which the Vatican officially blessed all Catholics to war with Russia
    “I write from memory, so I can be mistaken, Arsen Martirosyan’s book“ The Tragedy of June 22nd ”, the final chapters of“ After the war, the top of the Reich was canonized ”
  16. +3
    1 July 2017 09: 44
    Well, to be completely honest:
    -Talking that the Red Army hugged with the Germans
    Do not forget about:
    -In the midst of the war, Churchill blocked the Burmese road to please the Japanese, to preserve the colonies
    -USA drove automobiles to Germany because they needed money
    -And legendary trains from the USSR for Germany, accompanied by notes from German quartermasters "We are driven by rotten hemp, ore with a low manganese content, which is not only applicable to tank armor, but also to shovels, etc., we supply high-precision machines in exchange"
    Somehow
  17. +2
    1 July 2017 10: 04
    The trouble is that Poland was not just a “wall” ...

    The author ... how to say this ... is absolutely right. If Poland had not been defeated, but given the opportunity to participate in Barbarossa, then the Poles, joyfully screeching, would have jumped into battle.
    1. 0
      1 July 2017 10: 12
      Poland, was part of the Habsburg or Romanov empire. Puppy's right to independence appeared after the collapse of two Empires. Talk about an unbridled clown
      1. 0
        1 July 2017 11: 05
        Quote: AntonZzz
        Talk about an unbridled clown

        Only now it’s painfully bloody clown turns
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 11: 36
          Hari is different, in fact, you can see someone in the afternoon, you will startle. You will see someone at midnight, laugh. Hypochondriac is a sad clown
    2. +1
      1 July 2017 10: 36
      Of course, she chose her own path and it was the same even now, at least a hundred years ago.
      History Lost SS Division Warsaw
    3. +5
      1 July 2017 10: 44
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      If Poland hadn’t been defeated, but given the opportunity to participate in Barbarossa,

      Absolutely excluded. Aloizych, having familiarized himself with Poland’s territorial claims against the USSR, became weak and decided that it’s cheaper to shoot Poland.
      1. +2
        1 July 2017 10: 50
        In vain you did everything right, this is a Wehrmacht failure, they banged your ally.
      2. +3
        1 July 2017 11: 03
        Quote: revnagan
        Absolutely excluded. Aloizych, having familiarized himself with Poland’s territorial claims against the USSR, became weak and decided that it’s cheaper to shoot Poland.

        Herr Hitler still had one worthy of understanding, a fad - he loved natural Germans laughing That is, for all its shortcomings, it remotely resembled patriotism, he still possessed :)))
        And I wonder wildly what the Poles were counting on, cruelly oppressing the Germans living in Poland (and they, in fact, were there citizens of the second ... or third ... grade) and at the same time thinking about an alliance with Germany? :) )))))
        And so - the gentry intolerance of national minorities (Germans, Ukrainians, etc.) is still waiting for its researchers ....
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 11: 12
          They too were once an Empire. Phantom pain
          1. 0
            1 July 2017 11: 14
            Well, this is a completely dark story about Grishka the impostor
  18. 0
    1 July 2017 11: 21
    On the topic of the Poles, an interesting video appeared
  19. +1
    1 July 2017 14: 42
    As one familiar writer said to me (drunk): “Jews, students, intellectuals and ... are to blame for everything.” I clicked at the same time. "... and the Poles." It was back in 1986. But now I understand that he was right.
    1. 0
      4 July 2017 11: 46
      "The Jews, students, intellectuals and ... are to blame for everything." Having hiccuped at the same time. "... and the Poles." "///

      He did not come up with this phrase (specialist philologist), but quoted from the newspapers "Union of the Russian People" ("Black Hundred") from the beginning of the 20th century.
      1. 0
        4 July 2017 12: 44
        And with what I do not agree? Well, let's put the Jews in last place? Will it be better?
  20. 0
    1 July 2017 23: 02
    Great article. To bookmarks.
  21. +1
    3 July 2017 08: 28
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    : From a genetic point of view, Poles are much cleaner Slavs than Russians or even Ukrainians.
    I did not read further. Author, when will you measure the skulls?
    \
    What made you so embarrassed? The author is right! In Ukrainians and Russians a lot of non-Slavic blood is mixed! By virtue of historical interaction with the eastern peoples! But the Poles were protected from this by Russia and Ukraine! Therefore, they are not mixed and genetically cleaner! At school, it was necessary not to skip biology ........................
  22. 0
    3 July 2017 14: 29
    Adolf Aloizovich is not Shilkgruber, but Shiklgruber
  23. 0
    4 July 2017 12: 42
    Psheks wanted to become an empire, the gut is thin! For their inferiority, they do not like Russians!
  24. 0
    4 July 2017 12: 47
    Quote: 210ox
    Agree with Goebbels or something? But it will already be agreement with the policy of Nazism am Although the opinion about "abomination" is very clear. In the Smolensk region’s small homeland, I met people with Polish surnames and quite often emphasizing their Polish roots .. They had some kind of arrogance. What does European integration have to do with it? In the USSR?

    This will not be in agreement with the policies of Nazism, it is just the result of a manipulation of consciousness. If you say "you need to build roads in Russia" and they answer you: "Hitler also called for the construction of autobahns, but you are a fascist, my friend!" This is precisely manipulation. Agreeing with the Nazis on certain issues does not at all mean a complete acceptance of their ideology. There liberals also sometimes accidentally manage to blather something clever, but this does not mean that everyone should become liberals because of this. Ideology is not a combination of individual ideas, but an integral worldview. In my opinion, sound ideas can and should be considered no matter who they are, but only sound ones, and without the obligatory connection with other ideas of the same author (other ideas can be nonsense, and often happen).