Once again to the question about the weight of knight armor ...

62
“O knights, stand up, the hour has come!
Shields, steel helmets and armor you have.
Ready for the faith to fight your dedicated sword.
Give me strength too, oh my god, for the new glorious sech.
I will take a rich booty there.
I do not need gold and land to anything,
But maybe I will, singer, mentor, warrior,
Heavenly bliss forever honored
(Walter von der Vogelweide. Translation by V. Levik)


A number of articles on the subject of knightly weapons and, in particular, knightly armor, have already been published on the VO website. However, this topic is so interesting that you can go deeper into it for a very long time. The reason for the next treatment is banal ... weight. Armor weight and weapons. Alas, I recently again asked students about how much a knight’s sword weighs, and received the following set of numbers: 5, 10 and 15 kilograms. They found the mail in 16 kg to be very light, though not all, and the weight of the plate armor in 20 with a small kilo is simply ridiculous.



Once again to the question about the weight of knight armor ...

The figures of a knight and a horse in full protective gear. Traditionally, knights imagined just such - "chained in battens." (Cleveland Museum of Art)

At HE, of course, “weight matters” are much better due to regular publications on this topic. However, the opinion of the exorbitant severity of the “knightly costume” of the classical type has not been eradicated until now and here. Therefore, it makes sense to return to this topic and consider it with specific examples.


Western European hauberk (hauberk) 1400 - 1460's. Weight 10.47 kg. (Cleveland Museum of Art)

Let's start with the fact that British historians of armaments created a very reasonable and clear classification of armor according to their specific characteristics and eventually divided the entire Middle Ages, orienting, of course, according to available sources, into three eras: the epoch of chain mail, the epoch of mixed mail-plate protective weapons ”and“ the era of one-piece armor ”. All three eras together make up the period from 1066 to 1700 a year. Accordingly, the first era has the framework 1066 - 1250, the second - the era of chain mail-plate armor - 1250 - 1330. But further like this: the early stage in the development of knightly plate armor (1330 - 1410) stands out, the “great period” in stories knights in “white armor” (1410 - 1500) and the sunset era of knight armor (1500 - 1700).


Chainmail along with a helmet and a bamlita (aventail) of the thirteenth to fourteenth centuries. (Royal Arsenal, Leeds)

During the years of the “wonderful Soviet education”, we have never heard of such a periodization. But in the school textbook "The History of the Middle Ages" for the VΙ class for many years with some rehash you could read the following:
“It was not easy to defeat the peasants even of a single feudal lord. The cavalry warrior, the knight, was armed with a heavy sword and a long spear. With a big shield he could hide from head to toe. The body of the knight defended chain mail - shirt, woven from iron rings. Later, the mail was replaced by armor - armor of iron plates.


Classic knight armor, which in the textbooks for schools and universities most often discussed. Before us is Italian armor of the 15th century, restored in the 19th century. Height 170.2, see Weight 26.10 kg. 2850 helmet weight (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Knights fought on strong, hardy horses, which were also protected by armor. The knight’s armament was very heavy: it weighed down to 50 kilograms. Therefore, the warrior was clumsy and clumsy. If the rider was thrown off his horse, he could not get up without help and was usually captured. To fight on a horse in heavy armor, it took a long training, the feudal lords prepared for military service from childhood. They constantly practiced fencing, riding, wrestling, swimming, javelin throwing.


German lats 1535. Presumably from Brunswick. Weight 27.85 kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Warhorse and knightly weapons were very expensive: for all this it was necessary to give the whole herd - 45 cows! The landowner, on which the peasants worked, could carry the knightly service. Therefore, the military business became an occupation almost exclusively of feudal lords ”(Agibalova, EV The history of the Middle Ages: A textbook for the 6 class / EV. Agibalova, GM Donskoy, M .: Enlightenment, 1969. С.33; Golin, EM The history of the Middle Ages: A textbook for the 6 class of the evening (shift) school / EM Golin, VL Kuzmenko, M. Ya. Loyberg. M .: Enlightenment, 1965. C. 31- 32.)


Knight in armor and horse in horse armor. The work of the master Kuntz Lochner. Nuremberg, Germany 1510 - 1567 Dated 1548 g. The total weight of rider's equipment, along with horse armor and 41.73 saddle kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Only in the 3 edition of the textbook "History of the Middle Ages" for the VΙ class of the secondary school V.A. Vedyushkina, published in 2002, the description of knightly weapons became somewhat truly thoughtful and relevant to the aforementioned periodization used by historians around the world today: “At first, the knight was protected by a shield, helmet, and hauberk. Then, the most vulnerable parts of the body were hidden behind metal plates, and from the 15th century onwards the chainmail was finally replaced by solid armor. The battle armor weighed up to 30 kg, so the knights chose enduring horses, also protected by armor, for the battle. ”


Armor of Emperor Ferdinand I (1503 – 1564) Gunsmith Kunz Lochner. Germany, Nuremberg 1510 - 1567 Dated 1549 d. Height 170.2, see Weight 24 kg.

That is, in the first case, intentionally or due to ignorance, the armor was divided over epochs simply, while the weight in 50 kg was attributed to both the armor of the “epoch of chain mail” and the “epoch of all-metal armor” without division into the knight's armor and the armor of his horse. That is, judging by the text, our children were offered information that "the warrior was clumsy and clumsy." In fact, the first articles on the fact that this is actually not the case were the publications of V.P. Gorelika in the "Around the World" journals in 1975, however, this information was never included in the textbooks for the Soviet school. The reason is clear. On anything, on any examples, show the superiority of the military affairs of the Russian soldiers over the "knight-dogs"! Unfortunately, the inertia of thinking and not too much of the importance of this information make it difficult to disseminate information corresponding to the data of science.


The 1549 armored set belonging to Emperor Maximilian II. (Wallace Collection) As you can see, the version in the photo is tournament armor, since they have grangards. However, it could be removed and then the armor became combat. This achieved considerable savings.

Nevertheless, the provisions of the school textbook V.A. Vedyushkina fully correspond to reality. Moreover, information about the weight of armor, well, let's say, from the Metropolitan Museum in New York (as well as from other museums, including our Hermitage in St. Petersburg, then Leningrad) was available for a very long time, however, in the books of Agibalov and Donskoy for some reason, it didn’t hit it in its time. However, why is just understandable. After all, we had the best education in the world. However, this is a special case, although quite indicative. It turned out that there were chain mail, then - rr-time and now the armor. Meanwhile, the process of their appearance was more than lengthy. For example, only around 1350 of the year did the appearance of the so-called “metal chest” with chains (from one to four) go to the dagger, the sword and the shield, and sometimes a helmet was also attached to the chain. The helmets at that time were not yet connected to the protective plates on the chest, but under them they wore chain mail hoods that had a wide shoulder. Around 1360, the lat appeared fasteners; in 1370, the knights almost completely dressed in iron plates, and chain mail was used as a base. There were also the first brigands - caftans, and a slab of metal plates. They were used as an independent type of protective clothing, and they were worn with chain mail, both in the West and in the East.


Knight's armor with a brigandine over the chain mail and helmet bascinet. Around 1400 – 1450 Italy. Weight 18.6 kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Since 1385, the hips have been closed with brass from articulated metal bands. In 1410, full-cover plate armor for all parts of the body spread throughout Europe, but the chain mail cover of the throat was still used; in 1430, the first grooves appeared on the elbow and kneecaps, and by the 1450, armor from forged steel sheets had reached their perfection. Beginning with 1475, the grooves on them are becoming increasingly popular, while fully corrugated or so-called "Maximilian armor", whose authorship is attributed to the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I, does not become the measure of the skill of their manufacturer and the viability of their owners. Later, the knight's armor became smooth again - fashion influenced their form, but the skills achieved in the mastery of their decoration continued to develop. In the armor now not only people fought. The horses received it, and as a result the knight with the horse turned into something like a real statue of metal polished and glittering in the sun!


Another “Maximilian” armor from Nuremberg 1525 - 1530. Belonged to the Duke Ulrich - the son of Heinrich of Württemberg (1487 - 1550). (Museum of Art History, Vienna)

Although ... although the mods and innovators, "running ahead of the locomotive," were also always. For example, in 1410, it is known that a certain English knight named John de Fiarles paid pounds sterling to the Burgundian gunsmiths 1727 for the armor, sword and dagger he ordered to decorate with pearls and ... diamonds (!) - a luxury not only unheard of time, but even for him at all and not characteristic.


Sir John Skudamour's Field Armor (1541 or 1542 – 1623). Gunsmith Jacob Jacob Halder (Workshop in Greenwich 1558 – 1608) Near 1587, restored in 1915, Weight 31.07 kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Every detail of plate armor got its name. For example, the plate for the thighs was called cuisses, kneecaps - polens (poleyns), jambers - for the legs and sabatons for the feet. Gorget or bevor (gorgets, or bevors), defended the throat and neck, cutters (couters) - elbows, e (c) paullers, or halfprones (espaudlers, or pauldrons), - shoulders, rere (e) braces (rerebraces) - forearm , vambraces (vambraces) - part of the hand down from the elbow, and gant (e) years (gauntlets) - this is "plate gloves" - protected the hands. The helmet also belonged to the complete set of armor and, at least, at first, the shield, which later ceased to be used on the battlefield by about the middle of the 15th century.


The armor of Henry Herbert (1534 – 1601), the Second Earl of Pembroke. Manufactured around 1585 - 1586. at the Greenwich Gunshop (1511 - 1640). Weight 27.24 kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

As to the number of parts in the “white armor”, in the armor of the mid-fifteenth century their total number could reach 200 units, and taking into account all the buckles and nails, along with hooks and various screws, even to 1000. The weight of the armor was 20 - 24 kg, and it was evenly distributed throughout the body of the knight, unlike the chain mail that pressed the man on his shoulders. So “no crane was needed at all to put such a rider in his saddle. And when he was knocked off the ground, he did not look like a helpless beetle at all. ” But the knight of those years was not a mountain of meat and muscles, and he did not rely on just one brute force and animal ferocity. And if we pay attention to how knights are described in medieval works, we will see that very often they had a fragile (!) And elegant physique, and at the same time they had flexibility, developed muscles, and were strong and very agile, even being dressed in armor, with well-developed muscle response.


Tournament armor made by Anton Poffenhauser around 1580 (Germany, Augsburg, 1525 – 1603) Height 174.6 cm; width at the shoulders 45.72 cm; 36.8 weight kg. It should be noted that tournament armor has usually always been heavier than combat. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

In the last years of the 15th century, knightly armament became a subject of special concern for European sovereigns, and in particular, Emperor Maximilian I (1493 - 1519), who is credited with creating knightly armor with grooves all over their surface, ultimately called "Maximilian." It was used without any changes in the 16th century, when new improvements were needed due to the ongoing development of small arms.

Now quite a bit about swords, because if you write about them in detail, they deserve a separate topic. J. Clements, a famous British expert on cold arms of the Middle Ages, believes that the appearance of multi-layer combined armor (for example, in John de Creck's effect we see as many as four layers of protective clothing) led to the appearance of a sword and a half hands. Well, the blades of such swords ranged from 101 to 121 cm, and weight from 1,2 to 1,5 kg. And the blades are known for chopping and stabbing, and already purely for stabbing. He notes that these swords were used by horsemen up to the 1500 year, and they were especially popular in Italy and Germany, where they were named Reitschwert (horseman) or knight's sword. In the 16th century, swords with wavy and even serrated sawtooth blades appeared. At the same time, their length itself could reach human height with weight from 1,4 to 2 kg. Moreover, in England, such swords appeared only around 1480 of the year. The average weight of the sword in the X and XV centuries. was 1,3 kg; and in the sixteenth century. - 900. The “hand and a half” Bastard Swords had a weight of about 1,5 - 1,8 kg, and the weight of double hands was rarely more than 3 kg. The latter reached their heyday between 1500 - 1600, but they have always been infantry weapons.


Cuirassier "Three Quarter" armor, approx. 1610 – 1630 Milan or Brescia, Lombardy. Weight 39.24 kg. Obviously, since they have no armor below the knees, the weight of the excess weight was obtained due to the thickening of armor.

But the shortened armor by three quarters for cuirassiers and pistollers, even in their shortened form, often weighed more than those that assumed protection only from knives and they were very heavy to wear. The cuirassier armor has survived, weighing about 42 kg, i.e. even more classic knight armor, although they covered a much smaller surface of the body of the one to whom they were intended! But this, it should be emphasized, is not knight’s armor, that's what's the matter!


Horse armor, possibly made for Count Antonio IV Kolallto (1548 – 1620), around 1580 – 1590. Place of manufacture: probably Brescia. Weight with 42.2 saddle kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York) By the way, a horse in full armor could even swim under a rider in armor. Horse Armor weighed 20 – 40 kg - a few percent of the weight of a huge and strong knight's horse.
62 comments
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  1. +3
    7 July 2017 07: 24
    In armor, the knights were not agile. There was a video showing how to make a “wheel” in armor, sitting on a twine, and getting up from a lying position. This video also showed the technique of fighting with long swords.
    1. +7
      7 July 2017 15: 59
      I would for that video, the hands of the authors beat off. Minimum elbow. Deceived the mugs.
      Armor made of modern metal cannot give an idea of ​​that armor. Since the metal is 1 mm thick now, it is stronger than ... depending on what period of time, the quality of the metal often suffered from slags, which were necessarily in the metal, and therefore made the metal thicker.
      I will not sign it.
      Have you read the article?
      The armor was different. From light to heavy.
      If you take unique cases, then there were 40kg of full armor.
      But these are unique cases. I read only about one.
      But even in 20kg armor, this is a serious burden on a person. So jump like a roller, you would not be able to. Yes and no need to jump. This idiocy has already been invented. The armor performed a protective function, not an acrobatic one. You didn't have to jump.
      1. +2
        7 July 2017 16: 31
        You yourself and answer your questions. There was an article on VO about the modern equipment of a soldier. Here is the link https://topwar.ru/16823-ekipirovka-soldata-tyazhe
        lee-ili-mobilnee.html Here is an excerpt: "Today, the lightest weight or the so-called combat display with which a soldier goes into battle is 28,6 kg." Layout on the march ", with which infantry units are moved to take positions, on of which it will be possible to leave part of the equipment, it is 46 kg, but the total combat load is 60 kg. It is used on a “march in a critical situation,” when soldiers have to move on terrain unsuitable for using vehicles. As before, the military often ignore many instructions and the rules and they’re just dropping off their extra gear to make it easier to move around. " And nothing, they jump like a kangaroo. Henry number 2, like a real military man, ignored the instructions and rules, threw off his extra equipment, for which he paid.
      2. +7
        7 July 2017 16: 39
        And if you make titanium laughing
        The author of the kmk article had problems with a history teacher at school. Why study historiography of knightly weapons at school? As an extra reading - why not?
        1. +1
          7 July 2017 16: 52
          Had, hadn't, what's the difference? There are claims, state them reasonably. As a rule, the author answers questions. Even with Benjamin periodically conducts dialogue, if he more or less coherently expresses his thoughts.
      3. avt
        +4
        7 July 2017 17: 42
        Quote: ihappy
        But even in 20kg armor, this is a serious burden on a person. So jump like a roller, you would not be able to.

        I wouldn’t
        Quote: ihappy
        , hands beat off

        And he hit the computer warrior on the head, the campaign really didn’t even go on a camping trip with a backpack. Since the campaign has no idea what it is to carry a 20-40 kilogram bag on the back, or place a load on the body. So before you carry the nonsense with aplomb, put a simple scam on your shoulders with 20, and preferably with 30 kilograms. And then an anatomical mountaineering backpack and jogging at least for a kilometer in turn. Quickly to the brain comes about
        Quote: ihappy
        . Minimum elbow.

        и
        Quote: ihappy
        Deceived the mugs.

        Then for sure
        Quote: ihappy
        I will not sign it.

        Do not have to.
      4. +1
        8 July 2017 10: 44
        There they did not test the strength of the armor, although it was, but mainly mobility, even taking into account that the steel is modern, the mass of the armor and its structure are similar to the historical prototype, respectively, the video gives a completely normal idea of ​​the mobility of the knight.
      5. 0
        15 October 2017 15: 32
        Quote: ihappy
        But even in 20kg armor, this is a serious burden on a person.

        -----------------
        belay
        People! I goofing ..
        ---------------------
        Okay! The first time (after 3 days in the army), the full body kit with the Metis (about 42-45 kg) seemed to me heavy. I honestly admit. But! these were the "flowers"! .. Further, bigger and harder! It was on 80 kg, at crossings in 30 kilometers. It was worse!
        -----------------
        So!!! Months through 8, the load in 20 kg behind my back, I just did not notice. As she was not. I practiced melee (I remember), as part of a company .. and just with 20 kg behind me. I didn’t feel it. That is - AT ALL. As without anything.
        ---------------
        So, let's not bred diaper stuff about excessive loads here.
      6. 0
        April 12 2021 15: 43
        Firstly. Now, in general, there are more jocks. Those who and 140 raises the current with their hands. And there everything is evenly over the body. In the Middle Ages, there were devices for uniform mixing of the alloy, so the work could also be of average quality. Yes, and everything depends on how long a person wears armor, because they develop a person's body much better than the current rocking chairs. And the question is, did a person run in this armor? or just stood at the post, too, depends on the type of occupation, of course, if now you put on chain mail with armor on an ordinary modern man who is not involved in sports (not prepared), he will break his leg while running, in the first hole (even if you put on an old army armor :)). And if a person is not a hero, then he will not tumble, and to the point, the speed will be greatly extinguished, the main thing in the maneuver is the jump itself (to the ground), and with armor you can’t jump far, or you don’t jump at all.
        1. 0
          April 12 2021 20: 46
          well, in armor, mobility is limited, therefore, far from all it was possible to stand up, in old armor, it was impossible
  2. +2
    7 July 2017 07: 47
    Now, quite a bit about swords, because if you write about them in detail, then they deserve a separate topic. J. Clements, a well-known British specialist in edged weapons of the Middle Ages, believes that it was the appearance of multilayer combined armor (for example, on the deigree of John de Kreck we see four layers of protective clothing) led to the appearance of a “sword and a half hands”

    I completely agree with you. And most importantly, the history of knives, this is a whole layer of history in metallurgy, metalworking and the artistic decoration of weapons. And in addition I will add that there are interesting works:
    Book of Swords
    Richard Burton, the author of this fundamental study, traveling around the countries of the Middle East, Africa and America, has collected a lot of interesting information about ancient weapons. In his book, he talks about the origin and centuries-old improvement of weapons, the king of which from time immemorial has been the sword.
    The Book of the Sword: With 293 Illustrations
    Thomas Label: The Sword. BIG
    ILLUSTRATED
    ENUICLOPEDIA.
  3. +7
    7 July 2017 08: 05
    And if we pay attention to how knights are described in medieval works, we will see that very often they had a fragile (!) And elegant physique, and at the same time they had flexibility, developed muscles, and were strong and very nimble, even when dressed in armor, with a well-developed muscular reaction.

    For a long time, long ago in the magazine "Youth", of the first half of the 60-ies, I read about an experiment in one of the articles .... A modern young man (a contemporary of those years) of ordinary physique was asked to put on the armor of a medieval warrior. So they turned out to be too small for him ..... Just the "knightly theme" of a teenager then occupied me very much, and the textbook cited by the author as an example, only in the 64 year of release, was for us boys a reference book .... Painfully there the pictures were interesting ... Just like the 7-th volume of the Children's Encyclopedia (yellow). There, one volume was devoted to the whole history of mankind .... Therefore, the note read in the journal was remembered by me for life ....
    And the textbook of that time looked like this ...
    1. +7
      7 July 2017 09: 29
      All knightly armor is a remake.
      The history was written by humanities.
      What technologies did you need to possess in the Middle Ages in order to make such armor?
      And the manufacture of one chain mail would drag on for a very long time.
      By the way, techies rightly believe that the Iron Age should follow the Stone Age, and only then the Bronze Age.
      The real story is not traceable beyond the mid-nineteenth century.
      Middle Ages - Tales for Adults
      1. +8
        7 July 2017 11: 13
        Are you seriously? No, the fact that a person descended from a Holozado penguin-feeding bird, I believe.
      2. +5
        7 July 2017 11: 23
        Quote: ignoto
        What technologies did you need to possess in the Middle Ages in order to make such armor?

        Medieval. "If the secrets of damask patterns and the nature of the structural heterogeneity of damask no longer exist, then there are still many white spots in the technology for preparing damask products - forging, heat treatment and finishing." Yu.G. Gurevich. Riddles of damask pattern. This is because many technological secrets of antiquity and the Middle Ages have been lost.

        Professor V. Emelyanov in his book "On the verge of war" writes how in 30 years they lost the secret of casting large ingots of armored steel and how it was restored.
        http://fanread.ru/book/11375306/?page=21
        And how many such losses over the centuries?
        1. +2
          7 July 2017 12: 07
          Perhaps as unnecessary. In any case, it happened with damask steel.
          1. +3
            7 July 2017 15: 57
            Quote: mar4047083
            Perhaps as unnecessary. In any case, it happened with damask steel.

            With damask, yes I agree. Alloy steel began to replace it with success.
            An example with the casting of large-sized ingots, then armor was required for battleships of the "Soviet Union" type. But many technologies were simply hidden. In this regard, B.F. Danilov in his book "Life-Search" "Then the specialty of a turner-patterner, even in Leningrad, was rare. Moreover, the few elderly turners who owned it hid their secrets and working methods. any question, and he would remove the work from the machine, hide it in a drawer, and then begin to talk. It was impossible to learn from such a specialist about any subtleties in the work - the Leningrad “kings” tightly guarded their “thrones”. " It was in such conditions that the subtleties of technology were lost. Unfortunately, in ancient times it was like this: sudden death, some kind of epidemic. Or yes, as you write correctly, as unnecessary. This is also from Gurevich's book: "Riddles of Damask Pattern." The blade was made at a time when damask was no longer in demand.
            P. G. Boyarshinov, who had been working at the plant next to P. N. Shvetsov since 1902, spoke of such a case. In 1905, returning from the Russo-Japanese War, some high-ranking official stopped in Zlatoust, the Officer asked the factory manager to make him such a sword, which would cut all the blades existing in foreign armies, remaining safe and sound. The officer explained: he argued with the foreign military who were traveling with him on the train, arguing that the drafts made by the Zlatoust masters were of significantly higher quality than the best foreign ones. The plant manager and the officer who arrived convinced P.N. Shvetsov to deal with this order. P.N. Shvetsov, the eldest son of N.I. Shvetsov, associate P.P. Anosov.
      3. +7
        7 July 2017 11: 46
        Quote: ignoto
        All knightly armor is a remake.
        The history was written by humanities.
        What technologies did you need to possess in the Middle Ages in order to make such armor?
        And the manufacture of one chain mail would drag on for a very long time.
        By the way, techies rightly believe that the Iron Age should follow the Stone Age, and only then the Bronze Age.
        The real story is not traceable beyond the mid-nineteenth century.
        Middle Ages - Tales for Adults


        1. 0
          9 July 2017 06: 25
          In vain you are so, a fairly widespread point of view, quite vividly substantiated by its supporters.
          The truth is sometimes used arguments like: This can not be, because ...
      4. +4
        7 July 2017 12: 00
        Not all, but many. They also made captions for photos (reconstruction, restoration). If you show some rusty pieces of iron, then many will not be impressed. Yes, the manufacture was lengthy, and therefore the author brought the estimated cost of the armor. And so that everything becomes clear to you, the author began to classify defensive weapons by years, and not just write medieval armor. Perhaps real photos of finds will convince you.
      5. +8
        7 July 2017 12: 31
        Quote: ignoto
        By the way, techies rightly believe that the Iron Age should follow the Stone Age, and only then the Bronze Age.

        And boxers deny Newton’s third law, because “with a fist in the face is not at all like a face in the fist”.
        Personally, I recommend that you don’t study history anymore, do not dirty your techie’s pure brain with the fabrications of humanities. In any case, until the "mid-nineteenth century."
      6. +7
        7 July 2017 15: 00
        What technologies did you need to possess in the Middle Ages in order to make such armor?
        The most ordinary ones are blacksmiths. If you know nothing about blacksmithing in general and armor engineering in particular, then speak only for yourself.
      7. +5
        7 July 2017 15: 17
        the stone age should be followed by an iron

        Just techies and it is clear that this is not so.
        You dear obviously do not belong to the techies or the humanities. request
      8. +1
        7 July 2017 17: 37
        That is, Masons buried everything in the earth?
      9. 0
        7 July 2017 23: 28
        Quote: ignoto
        techies rightly believe that the Iron Age should follow the Stone Age, and only then the Bronze Age.

        What kind of techies are these ?! Compare the melting point of iron and bronze! It was easier to get iron than bronze - only in the form of a “sponge” saturated with slag! For the first time they were able to melt iron (namely iron, not steel - they could already melt it in antiquity) ... in 1854m!
        Quote: ignoto
        What technologies did you need to possess in the Middle Ages in order to make such armor?

        Advanced, sophisticated and expensive. Find Agricola’s book "On Mining and Metallurgy" - the so-called the "Brescia method" of making steel for armor (in fact, this is a compilation from Biringuccio's Pyrotechnics, but it has not yet been translated into Russian at all!) But this armor was also 30-35 times more expensive than usual iron eisenpantser which was chopped down at once with any ax and which the soldiers nicknamed the “schizenpanzer” (German: “aizen” - iron, “schise” - g ... o)
      10. 0
        9 July 2017 06: 32
        Quote: ignoto
        This is what technologies

        Approximately no better than these
        1. +1
          10 July 2017 22: 02
          For a professional metallurgist, it’s just clear how they got such metal - but how a column was made from it is really an extremely difficult task ... hi
    2. +1
      7 July 2017 17: 29
      My favorite, by the way, on the design! I believe that the combination of drawings and graphics is optimal.
    3. +1
      7 July 2017 20: 34
      By the way, I turned the knight on the left into my first "Nuremberg figure" in my life. I was very proud of her.
  4. +6
    7 July 2017 09: 24

    To the question of mobility.
    1. +2
      7 July 2017 16: 02
      I would kill for this video.
      This video is about modern armor.
      And amateurs do not understand and think that this is an example of medieval armor.
      Yes, and he is dressed on his naked body. Horror is booming.
      1. +3
        7 July 2017 16: 30

        Will such a video suit you more?
        1. +2
          7 July 2017 16: 32
          Yes. This video is more literate.
  5. +14
    7 July 2017 10: 12
    You exaggerate about textbooks. Conscious simplifications are simply necessary for the fragile brain of shkolopendra. You can imagine what the course of history will result in if everything is given in such detail. You gave calculations of the number of volumes of the history of the Second World War, and this is only 5-6 years. And here in 8 skinny volumes it is necessary to tell about the period for 30000 years. Vyacheslav Olegovich, with all due respect, you are unfair to textbooks. And about the armor is beautiful. And then I threw a “cobblestone” into your garden, the development of armor was associated with technology and the economy, but you did not write about it.
    1. +2
      7 July 2017 16: 13
      Quote: mar4047083
      And then I threw a “cobblestone” into your garden, the development of armor was associated with technology and the economy, but you did not write about it.

      He knows everything perfectly. And he wrote about it. Apparently the size of the article is not allowed. https://www.litmir.me/bd/?b=173290
    2. 0
      7 July 2017 17: 30
      Vedyushkin’s textbook “coped” with the task, right?
  6. +5
    7 July 2017 11: 07
    Well, those who were knocked down from a horse were probably just sloppy, like bugs. Judge for yourself: two lines at full gallop crash into each other, someone gets a spear. Not only will the blow itself be very strong (rider mass plus speed addition), it will also fall from the height of the saddle. The impact on the ground will be clearly very strong. Hence the word "taken aback." It’s about this very thing. When all the gallop and horseback, and even a spear in the hull. Then anyone will get sick. I read the description of one battle of the 15th century in Italy, where infantry militias walked around the battlefield and finished off knights with heavy ax blows to the visor. Apparently the knights were at that moment unable to resist. But if on the spot they simply pulled off a horse, then if they don’t lean on the whole crowd, then the knight had the opportunity to stand up and continue the battle. But as long as they pile up ... Under Bouvin, they so dragged the French rabbit off the horse. They could not kill - the armor turned out to be strong, but while they thought how to open it, help arrived in time. And the manner of infantry to pierce a fallen knight under the armor in the groin or point suggests that the gentlemen did not always have time to get up and fight back.
    1. +5
      7 July 2017 11: 41
      especially if on the head something like this . In general, if you bring the thickness of the armor and its area, many questions on its weight themselves will disappear.
    2. +5
      7 July 2017 15: 03
      Namely: all the slowness of a knight after falling from a horse from a strike with a spear - from a concussion, and not the severity of the armor.
  7. +1
    7 July 2017 16: 46
    Most likely the chivalry culminated in armor with long two-handed. They were not numerous and could not fight for a long time. But using the sword as a short spade with all the properties of a chopping sword, (there, by the way, there were sharp points on the blade or guard that could be used for short lateral punching), they were used as attack aircraft to break through the gaps in building the enemy. I think they could well break through the spears and the wall of shields with a rapid onslaught.
    1. 0
      7 July 2017 17: 34
      The apogee of the Latniks is yes, chivalry is not.
      1. 0
        7 July 2017 18: 05
        I had in mind battles using edged weapons. What later was against the background of an expanding firearm was by inertia.
        But today we have opened Burgfest, and as every year I go tomorrow for a holiday. Be sure to shoot something, and plunge into the atmosphere of the Middle Ages with pleasure. laughing
        1. +1
          7 July 2017 18: 18
          Well, write to us what happened, as it was, shoot, attach pictures ... Well, it's interesting ... The volume of 8000 characters, through the 1,5 interval!
          1. 0
            7 July 2017 18: 33
            Hmm ... well, they set me a task. I do not promise, but maybe I'll write in a personal.
  8. +4
    7 July 2017 17: 12
    Do you think it is possible to conditionally divide p \ armor into 3 types: ceremonial ("exit" smile ) - such are all gilded, with notches and ornaments, plume-feathers, exclusive dressing. Well and, accordingly, stand - half the kingdom. Tournament tournaments are also beautiful, but simpler than the “ceremonial” ones, which would not be a pity, and most importantly, that it would not hurt when they hit the head with a sword. Well, and finally, combat armor - absolutely not presentable, you won’t come to such a light - is considered not fashionable, but it’s inexpensive, more convenient and mobile - so that you could wave your sword for a longer time and it’s not a pity if the enemy tears the rags . Did you describe everything correctly?
    1. +2
      7 July 2017 17: 33
      Yes, that’s exactly how it was + hybrids, ceremonial-tournament, tournament-fighting ...
  9. +4
    7 July 2017 17: 32
    Quote: Molot1979
    Under Buvin, the French rabbit was stolen from a horse like that. They could not kill - the armor turned out to be strong, but while they thought how to open it, help arrived in time.

    About Buvin is not so simple ... I'll tell you on occasion ...
    1. 0
      8 July 2017 10: 47
      Looking forward to
      1. 0
        8 July 2017 12: 12
        I have been on vacation since 5 on July. That is now a lot of free time and you can do all the projects that were not implemented in the year. So a series will be continued about the details of the armor, started about the war horses, the "armor in battle" will be material, this is just what is planned in the coming days. So come on in, look ...
  10. +6
    7 July 2017 20: 02
    the author is already choking with bile from anger at the Soviet education. But judging by myself, I knew from these and other publications that the knights were not always “shackled” in metal, there were eyes, see engravings and think. Well, I pulled information from the Internet and what, then, I think there was no such access even to the textbook compilers. Well, as it was already .... not very interesting.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      9 July 2017 04: 16
      Quote: rumatam
      Well, I pulled information from the Internet and what, then, I think there was no such access even to the textbook compilers

      Who reads how. Normal people - read about armor. Personally, you - only caught
      Quote: rumatam
      the author is already choking with bile from anger at the Soviet education

      Who studied what. hi
    3. +2
      9 July 2017 06: 12
      Quote: rumatam
      the author is already choking with bile from anger at the Soviet education.

      Kaby choked and maybe choked, coughed and came to his senses. Unfortunately, everything is quite tolerant with a leaked core.
      Quote: rumatam
      it was already .... not very interesting.

      And here you can’t forgive the expressed PERSONAL opinion of the writer of the material, this is HIS personal opinion, let him remain with him! And the material in the article is selected, in the opinion of course, quite informative.
  11. +2
    7 July 2017 20: 31
    Quote: rumatam
    then such an access, even to the compilers of the textbook, I think was not.

    It’s bad that it wasn’t ... But it is necessary that it was ... in a country where "everything is for the good of man." So something was missing, right?
    1. +1
      8 July 2017 06: 18
      It is clear that in a country where six-year-old children, after a bubble of vodka “piled up behind the collar”, rush under the car, there is enough. In a country where "everything is for the benefit of man," it was impossible to even think of that - they are Pithecanthropus and .........
  12. +1
    7 July 2017 23: 49
    Quote: Molot1979
    so they dragged the French rabbit off the horse.

    Apparently we are talking about a "French rabbit" ..
    Just a big size .... It's already a "crawl" ... Some ...
    It's easy to give grades ... For someone else's grammar mistakes ...
    Is not it? On the "five" your ... Composition "does not pull."
    Long ... Yes, and the style ... some kind of "school" ...
    1. +1
      9 July 2017 04: 18
      Quote: Gradient 3
      ... Yes, and the style ... some kind of "school" ...

      The style is just that. It is quite suitable. Here, not all of the "Akamediks" of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences.
  13. +4
    8 July 2017 00: 07
    For a man who, since childhood, has only been engaged in riding horses and practicing fencing, and at tournaments, a weight of 26 kg fights - this is not such a burden. Do not equate medieval knights with modern weakness. And so that a trained knight from the ground in thirty-kilogram armor could not rise, he must receive serious shell shock or injury. Most likely they could not do it fast enough, and the enemy did not let them get up for a long time. Modern soldiers with a calculation of half a center make march-throws tens of kilometers. If someone did not hold anything heavier than a spoon in his hands, then it seems to him that in armor one cannot rise from the ground or move quickly. And the technology is normal blacksmithing. I think that in the Middle Ages the blacksmiths were even more skilled than they are today and they were not so bad.
    1. +1
      8 July 2017 04: 34
      I do not passionately plus. hi
  14. 0
    9 July 2017 06: 14
    At the expense of physical training of knights at Senkevich in the Crusaders described as 18 year old Zbyshko, it seems, squeezed juice from an oak branch!
    1. 0
      9 July 2017 06: 29
      Well, it may be a “romantic image”, but ... children of archers, for example, were forced to hold a stone on their outstretched arms to strengthen their arm. This is in the statutes on the preparation of archers. King Edward forbade the peasants to play football so that they would not be distracted from shooting at the target. It was also with the knights unconditionally.
  15. 0
    3 January 2021 04: 36
    Who will go to war in such deaf armor? Of course, a crane is not needed to get into the saddle, but he himself will not sit in the saddle! Either a stand is needed, or help to get up :) And it's not about weight, but about mobility.
    Mobility is much less than in chain mail with individual insidious or lamellar elements. A sword in such deaf ones cannot be waved for a long time, and such things as guisarmes, siege knives, glaives with hooks for pulling out of the saddle, halberds, halberds, etc. there were a great many and they acted very skillfully :) You can hit the extreme horse on the legs :) Horsemen used axes in close combat, weighted axes with spikes on the reverse side and all sorts of war hammers together with clubs and maces. One blow to the head and hello earth. and there they will trample the horse! And by the way, about the bastards (I mean swords). The Cossack saber initially weighed 1.2 kg! It was later that it became shorter and lighter. The samurai katana is about the same (and then the guard weighs nothing and the weapon has a narrow and thinner blade for chopping / cutting). And here the knightly (Capetian as they were called) sword, which is thicker and wider, and a decent guard. The blades are less than a meter from a horse on the infantry at all not from hand! To understand what a "bastard" is, you can recall the sword with which Aragorn from The Lord of the Rings was dragging. This is what he is. And he certainly could not weigh 1,5 kg!