Popular Science: Do not believe the hype around the Russian hypersonic rocket

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Foreign publications on existing and prospective Russian weapons or on military equipment can be divided into several types. Such articles can pretend to objectivity or downplay the effectiveness of Russian developments, while praising their own. Also, materials are often encountered in a screaming manner telling about the impending threat and the impossibility of protection against it. A kind of response to such publications are articles whose authors are trying to reassure the reader and make him understand that the samples described are in fact not as dangerous as claimed.

Recently, the Russian project of a promising hypersonic Zircon rocket has become the topic of active discussions. Very little is known about this product, but the hypersonic theme attracts special attention of the media and the general public. As a result, there are more and more new materials, the authors of which are trying to analyze the available information and draw conclusions. Some conclusions soon turn out to be a reason for refutation articles.



18 June, the American popular science publication Popular Science, has published an article by Kelsey D. Etherton with the saying title "Do not believe the hype around the Russian hypersonic rocket." As is clear from the title, the author tried to consider the existing situation around the Zircon project, primarily the background information surrounding this development. After examining the situation, he made certain conclusions.



The article received a curious subtitle: “it's not about speed, but how to use this speed”. The material was illustrated with a photograph of the Russian heavy nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great, at some distance from which the British destroyer HMS Dragon (D35) was captured. The caption to the photo indicated that the 1144 “Orlan” cruiser, according to which Peter the Great was built, will be able to get promising hypersonic Zircon missiles in the future.

His article KD. Atherton begins by pointing out the current state and future promising projects. He calls promising hypersonic missiles capable of overcoming modern anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems as the latest developments in a long arms race. The Russian Zirkon rocket can get into the arsenals already in the next 2018 year. At the same time, despite the boldest headlines, the limited amount of data available on this project makes one doubt that such a missile will become an undeniable threat to surface ships.

A few days ago, the Russian state-owned news agency Sputnik published an article about promising developments in the field of rocket weapons. According to Popular Science, Sputnik boasted the prowess of the rockets and noted that the British carrier strike groups will have nothing to answer to the Zircon missiles. The ships of the ship group simply do not have enough fuel to travel the required path and get to the line of interception of the incoming missiles in a timely manner.

The author recalls that anti-ship missiles that can threaten aircraft carriers are a fairly simple and cheap way to counter the deadly threat from the deck aviation. Nevertheless, such methods have long been known and taken into account by naval commanders. For many years, the command of the naval forces does not send aircraft carriers into sailing independently. They are accompanied by other ships carrying radar detection stations, anti-aircraft missiles and missile defense systems. Using proprietary detection systems and weaponSuch ships protect the aircraft carrier from the enemy's strike. In such conditions, according to KD Etherton, a serious threat to ships hypersonic missiles makes not only speed.

He urged to take into account that the highest flight speed is not the goal, but is a means of obtaining the desired results. Interception of the rocket is hampered not only by high speed, but also by how it uses it. To uncover this question, the author of Popular Science sought advice from James Acton, one of the directors of the Carnegie Endowment Program for International Peace. The expert expressed his opinion on hypersonic speeds and their application in practice.

J. Ecton believes that in the context of the Zircon rocket there are several important issues affecting its characteristics. So, he is interested in how far the ship can detect such a threat. In addition, we need information on how the rocket can maneuver in the final segment of the trajectory, near the target ship. According to J. Acton, these questions are much more interesting than the speed indicators by themselves.

Developing the topic of the need to analyze various characteristics and use of speed, KD. Atherton indicates that hypersonic speed alone will not produce the desired effect. The reason for this, he calls the features of the existing missile defense: they have already been built to fight targets, which have even greater speed than Zircon.

The author further quotes David Wright, a member of the Union of Concerned Scientists organization. That indicates that hypersonic flight speed is quite fast for a cruise missile. Nevertheless, if we recall the ballistic missiles, then these figures no longer look so outstanding.

Missile defense complexes designed to intercept intercontinental ballistic missiles are now only beginning to show real progress in the course of tests and inspections. In the event of a threat from short-range missiles, anti-aircraft systems of the Patriot family with a certain anti-missile potential can be used. Such complexes are in service with the United States and some foreign countries.

The Patriot missiles have a flight speed of up to M = 4, which is more than enough for the timely interception of an aircraft or a cruise missile of one or another existing model. Tests on the interception of ballistic missiles moving along pre-calculated trajectories, while completed with only partial success: some of the targets were destroyed, while others were able to reach their conditional target.

KD Atherton recalls that a successful interception of a target depends on its speed and early detection. Thus, the combat units of the Minuteman III intercontinental rocket on the descending part of the trajectory develop a speed of the order of M = 20, which is three or four times the expected maximum speed of the anti-ship Zircon. However, ballistic missiles fly in clear and predictable trajectories. First, the rocket goes up, and then goes down. Throughout its flight, the ballistic missile remains “in the clear sky” and can be freely monitored by ground-based radars or spacecraft.

J. Ecton recalled a well-known method of reducing the likelihood of a missile being detected during a flight. It consists in performing a flight at low altitude, beyond the capabilities of radars. The specialist recalled that the complexity of detecting a flying rocket directly depends on the flight profile: “even if you can detect something, you are unlikely to be able to intercept it if it performs maneuvers.” Missiles literally shy away from the means of destruction used to protect the ship.

The author notes that the flight profile will be able to tell about the combat power and effectiveness of Zircon missiles much more than just information about the maximum speed of flight. If a rocket can really move along a low-altitude trajectory, and in the final segment it will perform a sharp jerk with unpredictable maneuvering, then the results of its combat work may well correspond to what the “advertisement” says.

If the prospective Russian missile does not have such capabilities, then the existing anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense of foreign ships may be adequate to the existing threat. Nevertheless, the command and specialists responsible for shaping the appearance of a weapon are unlikely to approve a rocket with such features sharply limiting its effectiveness.

Since such information, which is of particular interest from the point of view of combat use, it is too early to say whether the Zircon missile will provide any significant advantages to the Russian naval the fleet.

The article "Don't believe the hype about the hypersonic missile" ends with another quote from James Acton. He argues that he is not inclined to deny the potential of a promising Russian hypersonic rocket and its future in terms of the threat to the ships of the United States. However, this opinion is based not only on published information about the speed of the rocket, since this parameter is not a fundamental and decisive factor. The media report that the Zircon will be able to fly six times faster than sound, and this will make the rocket unstoppable. However, the expert considers such statements only as speculation on the part of the uninformed.

***

The projects of hypersonic weapons of Russia and foreign countries traditionally attract special attention of specialists and the general public. Nevertheless, the developers of promising weapons and its future operators are in no hurry to disclose all the most interesting information, and are usually limited to only the most general statements. Most often, all available information is limited only to statements about possible weapons carriers, their purpose and maximum flight characteristics. In addition, information about some of the activities of the projects becomes public.

For example, it is known that, to date, the Russian defense industry has completed the development of a sea-based hypersonic anti-ship missile "Zircon", and since the spring of last year has been conducting its tests. The last test launch reported by the media took place in April of this year. This time, during the test, the prototype developed a speed of about M = 8. The carrier platform, flight range and launch results, however, were not specified.

The deadlines for the completion of work and the adoption of advanced weapons for armaments have not yet been specified. Representatives of the military and industry expressed the opportunity to begin operating new complexes after 2020, but the specific plans - even if they exist - remain unknown.

According to previously published information and estimates, the Russian industry is indeed developing a hypersonic maneuvering rocket 3М22 Zircon. It is alleged that the rocket will receive a combined guidance system with inertial navigation and active radar seeker. At speeds up to M = 8, the product will be able to fly at high altitudes and, in the final leg of the flight, decline to the target. The range, according to various estimates, will reach 400-500 km. As carriers of such weapons can be used ships and submarines of both existing types that have undergone appropriate modernization, and new fleet combat units.

Despite the minimum of available information, both domestic and foreign press rarely writes about promising projects. At the same time, domestic publications quite expectedly pay attention to the highest speed of flight and the associated benefits. Foreign journalists do the same, wishing to frighten their readers. Nevertheless, from time to time there are quite successful attempts at analysis.

The article “Don't believe the hype about the life hygiene missile” of Popular Science magazine was an attempt to understand the current situation and determine the real possibilities of a promising Russian missile system, about which very little is known. Despite the lack of accurate information, Kelsey D. Atherton and his consultants were able to come to very interesting and logical conclusions.

It must be admitted that the most interesting feature of the Zircon project, which is its "cornerstone" and which determines all the other features of the future rocket, is precisely the hypersonic flight speed on the cruise flight. Weapons of this kind are not yet available in the arsenals of even the leading countries of the world, which is of particular interest to such subjects from the military, specialists and society. As a result, it is the hypersonic flight speed, as well as methods for achieving it, that turn out to be the main topic of many discussions and publications.

However, the publication Popular Science reminded about other equally important aspects of the project. It's hard not to agree with KD Etherton and his consultants are that the prospective anti-ship missile must differ not only by the speed of flight. It is unlikely that the Russian fleet is interested in creating a rocket capable of reaching the specified area in the shortest possible time, but miss the target. A super speed weapon that can be intercepted with minimal effort is also of no interest to the customer. Thus, it is possible to present approximate requirements for a new rocket, which were observed during the development of the project.

According to fragmentary data, estimates, etc., all the points mentioned in the article Popular Science were taken into account by Russian designers when creating a promising missile system. As a result, the Zircon product will be able to hit targets not only due to the highest flight speed. This would mean that the doubts of American journalists and specialists were unfounded, the press hype had partially justified itself, and the Russian Navy would indeed receive weapons with unique combat capabilities, which posed a serious threat to the potential enemy ship’s connections.


The article "Don't believe in hype about missile hypersonic missile":
http://popsci.com/hype-russia-hypersonic-missile
56 comments
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  1. +6
    23 June 2017 07: 27
    Generalissimo where? Where are his comments? Gounyuki question our rocket, and he sleeps ...
    1. +6
      23 June 2017 15: 43
      And why prove to anyone horrible? They do not want to - their problems.
    2. +13
      23 June 2017 21: 37
      Quote: Shumanit
      Generalissimo where? Where are his comments?

      Are you satisfied with the premature generalissimo? nano-generalissimus so to speak?
      Quote: Shumanit
      Goonies set

      How are you right:


      Quote: Author
      Popular Science published an article Kelsey D. Atherton

      It should have been in the title.
      Kelsey D. Atherton is a very cool dude (or dude)


      Graduate (Yokarnyaytsenyuk) as much as Tulane University, with a bachelor's degree in the field of political science and second education:Middle East History Specialist.
      well that's it .... you can download, translate and print all the rotten
      Oh yes
      This is isho and founder and editor of Grand Blog Tarkin.
      who is not sick, see:
      https://blogtarkin.wordpress.com/
      and ce is not everything (if not sick).
      Isho his college posts can be found here:
      http://kelseydatherton.blogspot.ru/
      The head is clearly at odds.
      Put on your jacket, comb your hair, make you hide an idiotic smile:



      But this is unlikely to help.
      I'm trying to buy a mobile phone for myself in exchange (the second day already), and I’m just a schiza from downs with mobile reviews. 99,9% are the same (in fact) stupid people @ (well, hereinafter)
      ==========================
      Threat.

      Quote: Author
      According to Popular Science, "Sputnik" boasted of the prowess of rockets and noted that there would be nothing for British aircraft carrier strike groups to respond to Zircon missiles.

      See journalist in a hurry with the translation ..
      satellite
      boasted of the prowess of rockets

      The bravery of the boasted rockets is cool.
      There is probably the innocence of rockets and so on.
      Sounds
      According to Popular Science, Sputnik boasted innocence (virginity) of Russian missiles

      ZY2
      Please return the cons
      1. +5
        24 June 2017 21: 32
        I still can’t understand how the bourgeoisie is going to defend themselves against onyxes with granites, but they talk about zircons
  2. +5
    23 June 2017 07: 30
    Right! Do not believe as long as possible !!! Russian lie !!! Zircon is hypersonic, so you can only find out about its use on the seabed. Seven feet under your keel.
    1. +10
      23 June 2017 12: 14
      Not right, the enemy is seven feet above the deck :).
  3. +8
    23 June 2017 07: 59
    Read http://www.popsci.com/hype-russia-hypersonic-miss
    authorities.
    One could comment on one phrase:
    The Americans do not believe that the Russians managed to solve the problem of controlling and aiming at the target at hypersonic speeds.
    And it is clear that this is exactly what their special services are hunting for. Do not sleep!
  4. +3
    23 June 2017 08: 02
    I am personally skeptical of reports of hypersound after the confusion that has arisen related to the use by amers of "mother of all bombs." She shied away, and when they remembered about our "dad", it somehow turned out that no one had "dad" alive and saw normal. The situation is similar with hypersound - they write a lot about him, they scare him, they “bring him to mind”, but ... no one saw him ...
    1. +8
      23 June 2017 09: 52
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      She shied away, and when they remembered about our "dad", it somehow turned out that no one had "dad" alive and saw normal.

      Uh ... A "normal" is how? At the base of the occupying forces, Ramstein need to be thrown off?
      In my opinion, the videos with the bomb explosion were even redundant ...
      1. +5
        23 June 2017 10: 29
        E .. And is the Syria project already closed? Knocked out all the basmachi? Or can only an American journalist on an iPhone show how American helicopters in the Russian soundtrack of dushmans are wet?
        1. +3
          23 June 2017 10: 49
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          E .. And is the Syria project already closed?

          God forbid ... The "world community" will come out on guano, broadcasting about the "millions of dead peaceful Syrians" as a result of such a blow.
          There are no targets there for such ammunition.
      2. +3
        23 June 2017 18: 06
        But the leader of the redskins then went to the pot, and he was not allowed to the computer.
    2. +3
      23 June 2017 15: 12
      But who will show you it? He who sees it must rest at the bottom of the sea ... To advertise serious secret developments, stupidity is not excusable ...
    3. +1
      23 June 2017 18: 03
      It seems your nickname is fully consistent with your essence, what kind of vision do you want to see hypersound.
      1. +1
        23 June 2017 19: 17
        So you haven’t heard about ultra-fast shooting? It is a pity - there are a lot of interesting things to see .... Yes, and do not be rude. I didn’t drink a hundred grams with you, so that you would poke me ...
    4. 0
      23 June 2017 20: 44
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I am personally skeptical of reports of hypersound after the confusion that has arisen related to the use by amers of "mother of all bombs." She shied away, and when they remembered about our "dad", it somehow turned out that no one had "dad" alive and saw normal. The situation is similar with hypersound - they write a lot about him, they scare him, they “bring him to mind”, but ... no one saw him ...
      Test

      AIM tests were carried out on the evening of September 11, 2007. The bomb was dropped by parachute from a Tu-160 bomber and exploded successfully. [2]

      The results of the tests of the created aircraft munitions showed that it is comparable in its effectiveness and capabilities with a nuclear munition, at the same time, I want to emphasize this, the effect of this munition does not absolutely pollute the environment compared to a nuclear munition.

      - Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces Alexander Rukshin
      According to Yury Balyko, head of the department of the 30th Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the high area of ​​destruction allows reducing the cost of ammunition by reducing the requirements for accuracy. However, as Army General Anatoly Kornukov stated, so far only aircraft can be used from ammunition delivery vehicles. Missiles capable of carrying such a charge do not yet exist, and to create them it is necessary to reduce the mass of the bomb. [3] [4]
  5. +4
    23 June 2017 08: 38
    To be honest, Kirill’s article About nothing. If he undertook to comment on the article, then at least he cited the main theses of the article, and not his free interpretation. What can be agreed with Western experts - such a speed is certainly good, but far from the most important thing. The main thing is a target designation and guidance system. But unfortunately we do not know how this is.
    We do not know the whole real situation from the “other side”. Yes, they also have interception systems with sufficiently high speeds and ranges. But. These are for the most part kinetic warhead interceptors designed for exoatmospheric interception. And for atmospheric interception, all the more so, they are not suitable for such a missile.
    Of the new ones, there is the SM-6 Standard, but how it will show itself in intercepting such goals is not yet known. just like we don’t know the reaction time of the air defense system AUG
    1. +3
      23 June 2017 09: 54
      Quote: Old26
      To be honest, Cyril’s article IS NOTHING

      as indeed most of these publications
      Very little is known about this product, but hypersonic topics attract particular attention of the media and the general public.

      here is the answer to all the questions - nobody really knows anything, but articles need to be written about something ..
    2. +1
      23 June 2017 14: 11
      Why don’t we know? Aegis parameters? We know the best, passport, parameters announced by the manufacturer. In real life, the shelling cycle, the capture time of the next target will be worse than the passport.
      But the Onyx group is already getting to the "fat goose" through the protection of the warrant. And zircon will do it even better.
    3. 0
      24 June 2017 23: 07
      "- this is a system of target designation and guidance. But unfortunately we don’t know how things are with this" ////

      Recently, no information has appeared on how to control a rocket flying in a cloud of plasma. The rear control can still be imagined somehow - by pushing the plasma stream in a tricky way. But it’s hardly possible to place a GOS in principle - it will burn out.
  6. +7
    23 June 2017 08: 56
    I’ll open the "big military secret" - our potential ...... "partners" are not able to intercept the "Mosquitoes" with 100% probability, even the "Bramos" easily breaks through the KUG air defense, and the Onyx is guaranteed to cause large galoshes with a group volley damage in which they lose their combat readiness to "0". Now about Zircon - such a missile is not in service with the RF Armed Forces and, accordingly, its declared performance characteristics may differ from publications on this subject in the media! There is nothing to talk about! But so that Voshniki do not lose heart, I’ll tell you that interceptor missiles of the air defense systems, have long been close to hyperspeed. And then turn on your head and think if the air defense systems starting with S-125 can work on the ground with external target designation, then the future Zircon missile will be able to do this at these speeds, only the range question is open!
    1. +1
      23 June 2017 09: 35
      On tests, the Jewish zrk intercepted bramos (the same onyx), I do not think that in terms of air defense the Americans are behind Israel. Even God will not give a 100% guarantee of interception, but at least a reason to think about it.
      1. +4
        23 June 2017 11: 19
        It all depends on the tactics of use, the number of missiles in a salvo. And Bramos is an export version of Onyx (as you noticed), that is, it is simpler. fool
      2. +2
        23 June 2017 14: 16
        On tests, and SM3 just hit the BG Minuteman.
        But this is very far from intercepting a real, suddenly discovered target.
        Yes, and Bramos is not exactly Onyx.
    2. ZVO
      +1
      23 June 2017 10: 33
      Quote: Hammer 75
      I’ll open the "big military secret" - our potential ...... "partners" are not able to intercept the "Mosquitoes" with 100% probability, even the "Bramos" easily breaks through the KUG air defense, and the Onyx is guaranteed to cause large galoshes with a group volley damage in which they lose their combat readiness to "0". Now about Zircon - such a missile is not in service with the RF Armed Forces and, accordingly, its declared performance characteristics may differ from publications on this subject in the media! There is nothing to talk about! But so that Voshniki do not lose heart, I’ll tell you that interceptor missiles of the air defense systems, have long been close to hyperspeed. And then turn on your head and think if the air defense systems starting with S-125 can work on the ground with external target designation, then the future Zircon missile will be able to do this at these speeds, only the range question is open!


      Do you think you discovered the Truth?
      Well, Talos rockets did this back in the late 50s and early 60s.
      And it was the tests of these missiles that made it clear that a missile with similar sizes and speeds would destroy the destroyer simply in a kinetic version.
      Even without warheads.
  7. +2
    23 June 2017 09: 12
    Rocket speed is the time of approach and the reaction time of the AUG air defense systems to a threat. I don’t understand how they are going to shoot down a missile reaching the target at a speed of 2 km / s? The appearance of a rocket over the horizon and flight to the target - 15 seconds! Even if you take into account the "high" points of deployment of air defense radars. And some missiles go at high altitude and speed, and dive at the target vertically!
    Well and the main thing. Such a target as AUGs will not be "jammed" by single missiles. The flocks will fly. With a simultaneous attack from different angles, moreover, some will attack escort ships.
    1. ZVO
      +1
      23 June 2017 10: 55
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Rocket speed is the time of approach and the reaction time of the AUG air defense systems to a threat. I don’t understand how they are going to shoot down a missile reaching the target at a speed of 2 km / s? The appearance of a rocket over the horizon and flight to the target - 15 seconds! Even if you take into account the "high" points of deployment of air defense radars. And some missiles go at high altitude and speed, and dive at the target vertically!
      Well and the main thing. Such a target as AUGs will not be "jammed" by single missiles. The flocks will fly. With a simultaneous attack from different angles, moreover, some will attack escort ships.


      1. How to shoot down?
      Usually knock down.

      2. About your "15 sec!"
      You should take into account that Onyx / Bramos could keep a low-altitude trajectory - it must be launched from a distance of less than 120km. No further.
      Accordingly, all rocket carriers will be at a glance for 600 kilometers.
      And in the case of a real clash - destroyed before they reach the line of attack.

      3. About "Dive onto the target VERTICALLY!"
      And did you think that to rise above the ship at an altitude of 18 thousand meters - the rocket needs to fly a couple of hundred kilometers of the march section in the direct visibility of the Idzhis and the availability of Standards.
      Shoot down - I do not want to!

      4. About the "flocks."
      Once again, look at the range of the radar of the AWACS aircraft and their patrol zones, which, as part of the AUG, are always hanging in the air.
      Do not forget that always on the AUG routes there is patrolling of the course area by the forces of nuclear submarines, RTR and AWACS aircraft, etc. Approaching the launch point in a coordinated manner is very problematic. Each destroyer / cruiser Aegis - quietly demolishes 8 missiles. 5-6 AUG combat protection ships operating network-centrically can thwart an attack of 40-50 missiles simultaneously!
      Read more.
      1. +8
        23 June 2017 11: 24
        Quote: ZVO
        How to shoot down? Usually knock down.

        Well, in this case, "usually" is a euphemism for the word "no way." Because the anti-ship missiles were practically not shot down in battle. Until now, the most effective way to deal with attacking anti-ship missiles was electronic warfare, but cases of shot-down anti-ship missiles are extremely rare
        Quote: ZVO
        You should take into account that Onyx / Bramos could keep a low-altitude trajectory - it must be launched from a distance of less than 120km. No further. Accordingly, all rocket carriers will be at a glance for 600 kilometers.

        I don’t know how the submarine will be in the palm of its hand for 120 km. On the one hand, of course, yes, she has many enemies, and aviation is probably the worst. On the other ... In the 70s, the British honed their corvettes and frigates to anti-submarine warfare, it reached the Falklands and so what? several frigates and helicopters were not able to kill the diesel “San Luis” - this is after she, having proved herself, attacked the British warrant. So they chased her for a day and a half, but they didn’t beat her. And all in all, the only Argentinean submarine thrice attacked KVMF ships.
        So it happens very much for everyone
        Quote: ZVO
        And did you think that to rise above the ship at an altitude of 18 thousand meters - the rocket needs to fly a couple of hundred kilometers of the march section in the direct visibility of the Idzhis and the availability of Standards. Shoot down - I do not want to!

        Theoretically, the British frigate “Broadsword” with its two Sea Wolf complexes, which had a several-second reaction, was fully automatic and, when tested by a missile in a 114-mm flying projectile, was supposed to shoot down 5 planes per attack.
        But in practice, out of 8 air attacks on the Diamond or Broadsword, two Sea Wolf air defense missions slept well (software problems), and one failed to fire for reasons beyond the complex's control (the Coventry destroyer was on the line of fire ») And only in five cases out of eight could take part in the battle. But in those five combat episodes in which Sea Wolf did take part, only 4 Argentina combat aircraft were shot down by his missiles. The best indicator was reached on May 12 - the Diamond was attacked by four Skyhawks and it destroyed two of them. In two other cases, the frigates shot down one aircraft per attack, and in one episode they could not shoot down anyone.
        But this is not about PRK, but about hefty subsonic aircraft.
        So what about
        Quote: ZVO
        Each destroyer / cruiser Aegis - quietly demolishes 8 missiles. 5-6 AUG combat protection ships operating network-centrically can thwart an attack of 40-50 missiles simultaneously!

        I would not get excited. Maybe so, but maybe not, while Aegis has no military successes except for the passenger airliner shot down by the Vincennes. even the anti-ship missiles launched by the Iraqis during the Tempest in Glass EMNIP on the Missouri had to be shot down by a British destroyer
        1. +3
          23 June 2017 22: 15
          Since the Falkland War, much water has flowed. Missile defense as such began to develop seriously only in the 90s. Prior to this, neither radars nor computers could cope with such small inconvenient targets as RCC. Today, tracking and calculating the interception point is not difficult. It is hard to hit and guaranteed to destroy.
          1. +2
            24 June 2017 07: 23
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Prior to this, neither radars nor computers could cope with such small inconvenient targets as RCC.

            Huh. Those. could they cope with a 114-mm projectile in flight during tests, but not with a rocket? Shaitan, however :))))
            The question is not this, but that the effectiveness of the complex, shown in peacetime during exercises and in war - in real combat, these are two big differences, however laughing And the Falklands illustrate it perfectly
      2. +2
        23 June 2017 19: 27

        You tell this "Aegis" how he shoots down eight missiles in real combat. After he dragged out his slow-moving target aboard! laughing
        1. +2
          23 June 2017 22: 08
          "that the anti-ship missiles were practically not shot down in combat staging." ///

          The British were shot down in the Persian Gulf.
          In general, now the concept is to bring down on a collision course, rather than chasing RCC.
          Then it is not particularly important what speed she has, super- or hyper.
          As if stood in her way (covered the ship with his chest smile ) and she with all her impulse about you (missile defense) will smash into smithereens.
          1. +3
            24 June 2017 07: 29
            Quote: voyaka uh
            The British were shot down in the Persian Gulf.

            I mentioned it. Interestingly, ships from Aegis were doing at this time.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            In general, now the concept is to bring down on a collision course, rather than chasing RCC.

            Yes, in general, it always has been. It was usually assumed that the rocket rushing to the ship, and the ship is fired from it :)))
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Then it is not particularly important what speed she has, super- or hyper.

            Reaction time. At Wulf, it was only 6-7 seconds according to the passport and he confirmed the passport in peaceful conditions. But in the military - and could not close. In the best case, one SAM - one fired target, and so it was possible to work out only once for the whole war. But attacked planes, not rockets.
            1. +2
              24 June 2017 08: 31
              "Reaction time. At" Wolfe "it was only 6-7 seconds according to the passport" ////

              I think that it was not the reaction time of technology that failed, but the reaction time of people.
              In wartime, people could not cope with nerves.
              Now such systems can be set to full “automatic. Without operator confirmation of the shot. And there will be no problems with the reaction time.
              1. +2
                24 June 2017 20: 00
                Quote: voyaka uh
                I think that it was not the reaction time of technology that failed, but the reaction time of people.

                Wrong
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Now such systems can be set to full automatic.

                Sea Wolf was a fully automatic machine. There, in general, human participation (except for permission to use weapons) was not provided
    2. 0
      23 June 2017 11: 04
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Rocket speed is the time of approach and the reaction time of the AUG air defense systems to a threat. I don’t understand how they are going to shoot down a missile reaching the target at a speed of 2 km / s? The appearance of a rocket over the horizon and flight to the target - 15 seconds!

      They will jam the SAM with ARLGSN. For which the radio horizon of the radar target illumination is not important - they generally do not need backlight.
      For such missiles only radar detection (issuing approximate current coordinates of the target and missiles) and a data channel for correcting the missiles trajectory are needed. Moreover, the same "Hokai" can be used as the OVC radar. The main thing is to bring the missiles to about the area of ​​the target. And the exact guidance on the final stretch is beyond the ARLGSN SAM.
      1. +3
        23 June 2017 15: 12
        You know, ARLGSN is the same panacea as the SAM system used to be. Fly to the target location area, turn on the active head there, capture the target and get there. Business then ...
        But in reality, not only will a black cat in a dark room search for her missile in a narrow sector if it flies in hindrance and for false purposes, while the cat is white and sits on the fence, so even if it’s in it If the beam turns out to be the target, then 70-90% of the goal will be covered by the group director of active interference, all sorts of Himalayas, Khibiny and Levers with Mercury. It is far from a fact that that missile launcher will reach the true target at the distance of the flight of fragments, if at all.
        For some reason, if we project our efforts to destroy the enemy’s ACG, then the enemy has everything that detects, captures, affects and all this with 100% probability, our missiles are “slow, poorly maneuverable, with antediluvian electronics, etc.” And vice versa - they "endure" our air defense without a twinge of conscience, and our missiles ...
        What kind of admiration for foreigners?
        There were few precedents when everything was exactly the opposite?
  8. +1
    23 June 2017 10: 06
    Quote: Hammer 75
    I’ll open the "big military secret" - our potential ...... "partners" are not able to intercept the "Mosquitoes" with 100% probability, even the "Bramos" easily breaks through the KUG air defense, and the Onyx is guaranteed to cause large galoshes with a group volley damage in which they lose their combat readiness to "0".

    I will open another "terrible military secret." We also cannot intercept with 100%. This is impossible physically. And remember the death in the Far East of our MRK.

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Rocket speed is the time of approach and the reaction time of the AUG air defense systems to a threat. I don’t understand how they are going to shoot down a missile reaching the target at a speed of 2 km / s? The appearance of a rocket over the horizon and flight to the target - 15 seconds! Even if you take into account the "high" points of deployment of air defense radars. And some missiles go at high altitude and speed, and dive at the target vertically!
    Well and the main thing. Such a target as AUGs will not be "jammed" by single missiles. The flocks will fly. With a simultaneous attack from different angles, moreover, some will attack escort ships.

    You do not forget that the marching height for a hypersonic missile, and even more so at the maximum range, is a flight altitude of about 30-40 kilometers. In addition, the AWAC has AWACS in the air, which sees on bОa lower range than the range of flight
    1. +1
      30 June 2017 14: 23
      I will answer your quotation "Ashuluk" training ground to help you, for what purposes our air defense systems are oriented, even the data for the beginning of 2000, for the "partners" are fantastic, and I am silent about the current level of our rocket science (rocket engines, principles) ... otherwise: a talker is a godsend for a spy! And in the deaths of RTOs, there are those responsible for reading the report, it is in the public domain.
  9. +7
    23 June 2017 11: 28
    writes such nonsense. that's just a sucker. otherwise, I can’t call this "expert" from nuclear something there.
    How can we compare the CR, in which the EPR will be like a bird with a colossus of ten meters?
    Well, OK. Suppose we exclude from the topic the size, speed of missiles and the trajectory.
    Then it turns out that it is possible to launch a missile defense on ICBMs at subsonic speed. The main thing is to know the EXACT flight path and to launch a missile defense at a speed of at least 5 Km / h, the main thing is to launch it on time, a couple of months before the launch of the ICBM, and in theory it will bring down a mbr flying at least a pancake with the speed of light. The main thing is to know the exact speed of the rocket, its trajectory and launch time. and then the speed of the missile defense does not matter at all.
    But this is one and the other. That 20M, flying along a ballistic trajectory, and 5-8 M, flying horseradish knows where the hell knows how, and in the final section, flying at 5 meters above sea level and even from the rear, for example. ... then we'll see.
    In general, I am enraged by all these morons by the fact that they compare the desired and prescribed performance characteristics with real ones, as well as they measure the strength of the army on its budget. In general, right on ... I want to send. and generally DO NOT lay out this nonsense on.
    For example, I basically ignore what NI (nationl interest) writes. Probably a drunken gorilla and that will write a more logical analysis or comparison of military equipment than these nerds in NI.
    P.S. I apologize for not censoring statements, but such things are really enraging.
    1. 0
      29 June 2017 10: 43
      The expert forgot to indicate that no one did the interception at the final stage. 20 M for interception is not amenable, and even 10M, I think, too. All known interceptions were at a high-altitude flight stage with a stable trajectory. And besides, as far as it is known from open sources, all modern ICBMs maneuver in the final sections of the trajectory.
  10. +5
    23 June 2017 11: 51
    Popular Science: Do not believe the hype around the Russian hypersonic rocket

  11. +1
    23 June 2017 12: 29
    shake the air, you can .. but not for long.
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      23 June 2017 16: 51
      staaaaa ???? wassat
      longitudinal or transverse relative to what ?????
      important point of reference.
      how can the same speed be different depending on the direction?
    2. 0
      6 July 2017 15: 59
      hypersound is possible only in the longitudinal direction of movement, and in the transverse direction the speed is normal - especially since a conventional engine is used before reaching hypersound!

      And she will not be able to fly back with hypersonic speed, so that she missed the missile defense!
  13. +5
    23 June 2017 18: 27
    British carrier strike groups ....... I haven’t read further, Britain does not have any carrier strike groups.
  14. 0
    23 June 2017 18: 57
    The British are intensely looking for those who would actually check what kind of weapons there are in the Russian Army and Navy. And an amazing deal, they can find. At least they always succeeded. It is time to come up with Zircons for the information war, in order to prevent or neutralize such publications.
  15. 0
    23 June 2017 19: 07
    I like such Experts. laughing And if we go along the path of minimal resistance and instead of the task of "getting into the middle of an aircraft carrier" just crunch a vigorous warhead? laughing And we will be Toda "do not care on which side you have tubeteica petriot good
  16. +1
    23 June 2017 19: 34
    Everything is right calm, calm and once again calm, we have nothing but advertising and hype.
  17. +1
    23 June 2017 20: 07
    Reading notes on the latest developments in the field of armaments, I notice such a detail. I pass in a little exaggerated form, but, I think, not very exaggerated. Our developers, for example, before talking about the 5th generation in some types of weapons, carefully write: 4+, 4 ++, 4 +++, etc. Our “partners” boldly speak and even shout about the 5th generation, when they should write: 4-, 4--, 4 ---, etc.
    1. 0
      26 June 2017 10: 51
      correctly noticed recently everyone saw them 5 fighter interceptor without tail
  18. +1
    23 June 2017 22: 51
    I’m old and I’m cheating, but I remember something so much that these missiles were sold to Chinese “partners” for a long time and they tested them) at the same time and adopted them. after a couple of years of such a policy I will not be surprised at the arrival of Chinese scrap metal into our army.
  19. 0
    24 June 2017 06: 03
    Well, we all know who such effective managers in Russia? So the truth is somewhere in the middle ...
  20. 0
    25 June 2017 22: 43
    Big rocket big rocket
  21. +1
    29 June 2017 10: 39
    It seems to me that it is enough to analyze the information on Yakhot and BrahMos. That supersonic pitch up to 90 degrees does, according to the Indians. I do not think that Zircon will only be able to fly fast, without a solid reserve of maneuverability.
  22. +15
    8 October 2017 11: 00
    And no one believes