Military Review

Where dreams lead. Gang

104



"And experience, son of difficult mistakes ..."
A.S. Pushkin


"The border is an imaginary line between two states, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another."
Ambrose Beers


What is the strength of the diplomatic school? As is known, the creation of sensible cavalry from scratch takes about a hundred years. Something like we have with diplomacy. A powerful diplomatic service is created by generations. It is impossible to create it at once. It seems that everything is simple: these countries are our friends, we are friends with them (we smile, we drink vodka, we give preferences); those countries are our enemies, we do not greet them, step on their feet; and in - oh, those countries are incomprehensible neutrals, what is wasting time on them?

In fact, everything is much more complicated and dangerous, and when we see, for example, Mr. Lavrov, who is talking pleasantly with Mr. Kerry, there is nothing to be touched: this is war. True, in its diplomatic version. Diplomacy is not a completely empty talking room, diplomacy is a means of survival for any state. And if in wartime there are periods of peace, then diplomats are deprived of such luxury. They fight constantly. But we must be able to fight. However, this does not always work and not at all.

In essence, diplomacy is a definite analogue of what is commonly called in everyday life “legal support”. That is, your company is only then and so much yours, when and how much you can protect it. The same is largely true of diplomatic relations. To defend the interests of the state in the external arena constantlyotherwise you will simply be “eaten.” Diplomacy is an area where every word you say can be used against you. And it will be used against you if you blurted out something extra (remember Khrushchev and the Kuriles).

That is why a diplomat is a person who can expressively remain silent in five languages. And now the era of “decommunization” in Ukraine burst out, and then monuments to Lenin flew to the earth. And now began to close factories and factories. All this is known, but there is another interesting facet of “decommunization” - foreign policy. Ukraine is a product of Soviet power. And its industry, and its infrastructure, and its borders. The most offensive is that those very borders are also a product of Soviet power.

Here, as it were, ideology suddenly faces political and even property issues. And ideology is definitely winning! How could it be otherwise? The recognition of Soviet power / Stalin as criminal, as well as the recognition as criminal of their actions had many unexpected consequences for Ukraine. As they say, before making any statements - consult with a lawyer. Your rash phrases can cost you dearly.

The approach of the new Ukrainian dominion was very childish and very naive: there are bad, nasty and dishonest Russians; and there is the holy West, who loves all Ukrainians very much and who can be trusted with the word ... Therefore, the process of “de-communization” gained incredible momentum and could not be stopped in time. For reference, the western borders of Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania are the consequences of the very same act of coercion “Molotov-Ribbentrop” and in general of Stalin’s “frontier creativity”.

And so the comrades Ukrainians decided to “overthrow” everything. What bold, and most importantly, honest people ... Here it is necessary to identify the following points: first, someone will certainly cry out - it was all a long time and not true! So international treaties often do not have a statute of limitations. And they remain in force until a new agreement is concluded. Thus, the rejection of the criminal Stalinist heritage is very painful for Ukraine. First of all - geographically. The same lands that Stalin took from Romania, Hungary and Poland are now included in the “Square”.

So, nobody used to twitch before? So who would “flinch” during the USSR? Where did you see the crazy? But the USSR is no more. This is what the broad Ukrainians cannot understand, that it was the Soviet divisions that defended the western borders of Ukraine, and not some abstract “international law”. They have yet to face this. After 1991, the Poles, step by step, began to recall the “former glory” of the Commonwealth. We somehow don't see Poland as an aggressor, because it looked frankly pale against the background of the Russian and German empires.

But Ukraine today is not the USSR or even the Ukrainian SSR. Ukraine today is something completely different. The country is of a completely different level and with completely different geopolitical possibilities (or rather, their absence). For such a "country" and the Pole is terrible. Moreover, this country recognized at the state level that its western territories were obtained illegally. Ukraine recognized this. Officially.

Well, then someone will scream: and what are Polish Tanks will come to Lviv tomorrow? They won’t come tomorrow. And the day after tomorrow too. But a start has been made. The first small step in this direction is made. And done voluntarily. Absolutely. As the unforgettable Mikhail Sergeyevich said: “The process has begun!”. And you didn’t lie, you rascal.

A person's life is measured in years, so many things are not so relevant to him. States tend to live longer, much longer. But today история accelerated, and already the current generation of Ukrainians can see the results of the very new foreign policy. The trouble with the Ukrainians was that there were so many things there: industry, energy, the defense industry were closely tied to Russia.

Break with Russia meant their liquidation. But moreover, the borders of Ukraine were also very closely tied to Russia. Almost everything, oddly enough. And the designation of Russian as the main enemies also had quite serious geopolitical consequences. Yes, bad Stalin took certain pieces of land from good Europe and incorporated them into the Ukrainian SSR, and even the most unfortunate Poles deported from its territory.

Actually, this is all quite a controversial historical moment and, oddly enough, a powerful “spiritual bond” between Ukrainians and Russians. In this question, both nations are interested to stick together (paradox, yes?). But the Ukrainians decided otherwise. Although they need these “braces” much more. Ukraine is a piece of territory of the Republic of Ingushetia / USSR ... and even kill the wall. And Ukraine inherited all territorial squabbles with Europe with a machine gun.

No, I have already said that tomorrow Polish tanks will not come to Lviv. Well said the same. And the Hungarian special forces in Mukachevo can not yet wait. But this is still ... In principle, if adequate politicians were sitting in Kiev, then, understanding the "features" of the state genesis of "the land of great ukrov," they would try to be friends with Moscow. Just for reasons of national security and territorial integrity. But where to get adequate politicians in Kiev?

Ukraine is a truly paradoxical state, where everything, literally everything, starting from nuclear energy, ending with air defense and state borders, was tightly tied to Russia. As the same state. ideology Ukrainians have chosen Russophobia. Do you say Homo Sapiens Sapiens? Maybe Homo, but not the fact that Sapiens. Here it was not love / hate, but just cold commercial calculation. The western borders of Ukraine are controversial (if, of course, the imperial army is not behind them). Ukrainians for Europe are the same Russians, that is, second-rate people and Europe in any territorial dispute will be together against Ukraine. A vivid example is the gas fields around the Serpentine.

“Ukropolitiki” somehow did not really calculate the long-running consequences of the break with Russia. They are not very strong in geopolitical issues. Ukrainians cynically use the heritage of the USSR, but categorically reject its principles and values. An unexpected consequence is the very “gangway of the cresses.” Mina showed up where she was never expected ... The trouble is that today Nezalezhnaya is a typical failed state. A state without a future and without resources. And Poland is just on the rise. And with Russia, Ukraine’s relations are completely spoiled.

I would not say that the idea of ​​returning the lost to Poland is completely absurd. Moreover, even today Russia treats this very favorably. If you want to speak for the United States, the United States is weakening every year and more and more plunges into its own problems. The Ukrainian crisis proved it: they could still make a coup, but they no longer have peace in Ukraine. Ukrainians allocate some funny millions.

America is no longer a cake, sadly. The situation with the crisis of the EU is well known to everyone, as well as the hard floats between Warsaw and Berlin. So the “Great and Awful West” is increasingly slipping into its own ... problems. Against the background of the Donbass / Crimea of ​​Russia, the topic of similar Creses is not indifferent. Oddly enough - here in Moscow and Warsaw there is a point of contact.

The idea of ​​Poland to hijack all of Ukraine (even if as a satellite) is unrealistic, but some territorial motions may take place. Just because there will be no one to seriously oppose them. If someone didn’t understand, the “revolution of gidnosti” had one, not quite obvious result: Russia, in the matter of “similar creases,” changed its point of view by 180 degrees. It was clearly stated that the problem of the territorial integrity of Ukraine is only a problem of Ukraine, but not of Russia ... And why do you think that this concerns only Crimea?

Many people underestimate the Putin-Lavrovsk diplomacy. Ostensibly too toothless ... Not a fact. You just need to take a closer look at her, and much will become clear. This statement of "territorial integrity" (for the one who owns the issue) is a terrible force. Russia fought off the future “Ukrainian” lands from Turkey, Poland and other various ... There can be many complaints in general. Territorial. In fact, all of Ukraine is one big “territorial claim”.

As long as Russia was behind this muddy territorial entity “Ukraine Country”, everything was quietly noble. But times are changing. And we have a large piece of interesting land in the center of Europe with a very weak state power. That is, as if all the earth on the planet has long been divided (they no longer do it!), And then suddenly Ukraine ... I wonder? Interesting! And the Poles, and Hungarians, and Romanians ...

Once again: Ukraine with Russian military cover and economic support is one thing. Ukraine itself is something completely different. Before the “revolution of gidnosti”, all these “gangways” were idle talk about anything. Dream about one thing, dream about another ... But in the last three years the situation is beginning to change. Poland is a member of NATO and the EU (Ukraine will not be taken either there or there). Poland is the preferred partner of the United States. Ukraine is nobody and nothing in the world political arena. The new US president simply refused to seriously contact the leadership of Ukraine. Yes, and with Russia, Ukraine completely quarreled ...

So they are reckless. In the center of Europe and with such a territory ... even had a row with Putin. The “new democracies” simply have such an illusion that the state and its economy live on their own - only they are rudders. Yes, Ukraine felt rather well within the framework of the USSR, and some crazy Ukrainian politicians had the impression that this was because Ukraine was so magical.

Now they have gained the experience of independent government. And this experience is already becoming fatal for Ukraine. Investment, infrastructure, industry and the military component (as well as the diplomatic one!) Have been provided by Russia for centuries. Therefore, some in the republics had the wrong impression that this was happening by itself. Moreover, since Russia is “bad”, then it makes it all bad: the roads are bad, and the factories and universities. And the policy is bad, which is typical.

And so they themselves took the steering wheel (with both paws!). And, strictly speaking, for a quarter of a century, Ukraine was killed to zero. You just have to stupidly analyze exactly the difference achieved for 25 years (and not shout that so far so good!), And you also need to turn off emotions and moralism. Just compare the USSR-91 and Ukraine-2017. And as if there is a question about the division of territories former Ukraine. Approximately as with Rzecz Pospolita at the end of the XVIIIth century.

At the same time, Ukraine’s political position is somehow even worse: Poland had very good diplomacy ... and the diplomats were on the same level. For a while, it saved her. You see, professional diplomats are not pompous, inflated talkers on their salaries. This is a team of professional lawyers in the service of mega-corporations. Without them, any country is defenseless.

So Ukraine didn’t have these diplomats. Basically. Professional, competent politicians too. Not honest and “loving simple peasants”, but professional ones. That is, those "leaders" who ruled Ukraine did not even have an idea of ​​what kind of country it was. They did not even think about legal issues. On the "property rights", so to speak.

A burned professional lawyer will never tell the oath of the truth or what he likes. He will say only what is necessary. Emotions and personal tastes / preferences here can not play any role. But Ukrainian polittusovka struck in the emotions: there is a good West / Poland and bad Russia / USSR / RI.

People somehow did not think about the issue of boundaries. About how and who spent these very borders. But in the west of Ukraine they had a "criminal Stalinist regime." But you can’t just recognize Stalin / Lenin as criminals, and keep the borders they have drawn. Saint Bandera did not draw any borders, which is typical.

The most cheerful that Poland convinced both Ukraine and Lithuania to recognize the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact criminal. What besides emotional has quite a political and territorial consequences. Not at once, gentlemen, not at once. Just somehow it is smoothly forgotten that the existing borders were held with a hard hand by a superpower, which is no longer there. And the “offended neighbors” remained. It is with great difficulty that such things are perceived. The hen pecks at the grain. At first, they were asked to simply admit this criminal fact from the history of the disgusting USSR. Then the question of restitution gradually rises ... But not all at once: gradually and step by step.

The funny thing is that, given today's political realities, even Russia can in principle recognize the “incomplete and incomplete justice of the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact.” And to someone in Eastern Europe, it will sharply "go up the hell". And today's Russia has no territories derived under this pact ... But then other states have them ... But why should Russia decide others geopolitical problems? Why do we need extra smut? We have enough of our own: for example, with the Crimea, or with the Kuriles ... Does someone help us in solving these issues? Not? And why should we engage in geopolitical charity?

These same territories are present in Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus. None of these countries wish to associate themselves with the "Stalinist criminal regime." In all three "rapprochement with civilized Europe" is a national idea ... So come closer ... as deeply as possible.

Where dreams lead. Gang

The main problem of Eastern European leaders is a low level of education: they don't teach devils history. How did Dalia Grybauskaite say there: “We had bad relations with Russia (before its arrival), but they will be even worse”? This naive Lithuanian girl and does not represent as far as they can be bad ... and without any tanks. And not only with the Russians. How did Alexander Lukashenko say in a conversation with Poroshenko: “is the golden land among the Belarusians and the Ukrainians?” The fact that the "gold", the Poles will not argue, but about that whose she, they have a special opinion. Do not believe? And you ask! You are there closer to Europe. No, you go to a simple pub in Krakow, where Polish nationalists gather ... and ask. Just run afterwards ... quickly.

Russia? And what does Russia have to do with it? If anything, Kaliningrad went to Russia by no means on this “criminal” pact. The Germans even prudently "threw off" the lands received by the pact as early as 45 ... Feel that as is everything spinning? And the Soviet Union is no more and for a long time. And neither Ukraine, nor Belarus, nor Lithuania has a powerful modern army. Poland, oddly enough, has it ...

How do Belarusians sometimes write there: “Putin’s regime squeezed Crimea in a gopnic way?” So in 1939, the Stalinist-navy vesty regime in Gopnico squeezed Eastern Poland. And there are people who remember this and are ready to remind the Belarusians. And the state border is just a conditional line. So, the "fights" (according to the apt expression of the leader of the Republic of Belarus) in Eastern Europe may just begin ...

Russia? And what does Russia have to do with it? Russia will just protect their and only their own interests, but no one else. And they need to be defended: the same Parshin, who wrote “Why Russia is not America,” said this directly at the end of 90's: “Why do Moscow intellectuals believe that they own the resources of Siberia and the Far East? There are countries that are ready to put this question, and very hard. No army - no resources. ”Somehow he put it that way. As for the intellectuals, it was a double (triple ...) irony, if someone did not understand.

But it concerns not only Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. also concerns. After 1991, Yugoslavia was not only destroyed, but Czechoslovakia was also divided into 2 countries. And Azerbaijan has lost a lot ... What did you think? For some reason everyone, literally everyone, thinks that it concerns someone else, but not him. Syria, by the way, also possessed sovereignty and territorial integrity. Like Iraq.

Just for a very long time there was the USSR, then the same Ukraine was covered by Russia, not ready to revise the borders in Eastern Europe. But in February 2014 of the year a lot of things has changed. And people usually pay attention to something momentary, something loud, beautiful ... like Saakashvili, chewing a tie / hiding from the Russian aviation. But much (much!) More important things often go unnoticed. So, after Crimea, Russia's position is simple to disgrace: the territorial integrity of Ukraine is its and only its problem (not ours). And the process began: the Verkhovna Rada recognized the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact as criminal ... What will happen in 10 years? In 20?

And no one scares anyone: the USSR was gone / had a row with Russia, and there was no industry / economy in Ukraine. With territorial integrity - the same cholera. Today, Russia and Ukraine have “no” relations and Moscow is not obliged to Kiev. Solve this question "separately"? What are you for "people with mental disabilities" hold? For defectives? That is, Russia today has the full moral right to любые statements on Lviv / Ternopil. Moreover, it is so tolerant and so “in a European way” - to repent of Stalin’s crimes.

And then our Ukrainian friends, creating problems for Russia, love to be ironic and have fun about it. Well, the last one who laughs is a good laugh. And yes, this question touches Lithuania with its “Polish-Belarusian” capital Vilna, and, oddly enough, the “golden land” of Belarus.

What about "suicide". RB did not recognize, does not recognize and does not recognize the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation. Just a dry legal fact. Belarusians also like to declare to their Western partners that “they have no imperial ambitions”. The whole trouble is that the territory of Belarus itself is the result of the very “imperial ambitions” (Russia has fought for this “golden land” for centuries). And there are people on this planet who remember this very well and are not going to forget. Once again: the state border is a kind of abstract line, if only the state itself “with tanks and diplomats” does not stand behind it. And “the fairest thing in the galaxy is international law” - this is so, fools to deceive.

Today there are no “general principles” outside the framework of specific political agreements (which are also not always respected) ... But about “internationally recognized borders” - feel free to contact the World League for Sexual Reforms ...

Author:
Photos used:
www.img0.joyreactor.cc
Articles from this series:
Shards of Empire
104 comments
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  1. seti
    seti 21 June 2017 06: 04 New
    +32
    Very competent and sensible article.
    I especially liked the phrase: “The funny thing is that, given today's political realities, even Russia, in principle, can recognize the“ incomplete and not final justice of the Molotov-Ribentropp Pact. ”And someone in Eastern Europe is“ prettier ”sharply. And in today's Russia "there are no territories obtained under this pact ... But other states have them ..."
    God forbid that we continue to protect only our Russian interests and draw more. And so that the Russian soldier no longer dies in a foreign land for the interests of those who do not value it. A Russian soldier is needed at home and must defend his borders.
    1. Victor jnnjdfy
      Victor jnnjdfy 21 June 2017 07: 24 New
      +4
      Craces Sunrise. How can I write an article without knowing the elementary? Names ...
      1. Olezhek
        21 June 2017 07: 33 New
        +7
        Different names are found ...
        it’s easier for a Russian person to pronounce the gangway of a chair ...
        I hope the Poles will not mind
        The main thing is the fate of these same Kreski ...
        1. Victor jnnjdfy
          Victor jnnjdfy 21 June 2017 07: 54 New
          +3
          The illiterates are found. Literate can read. I could read the author.
          1. Olezhek
            21 June 2017 08: 16 New
            +9
            More terrible than a man who has not read a single book, a man who has read only one book ...
            1. Olezhek
              21 June 2017 09: 15 New
              +13
              Craces Sunrise. How can I write an article,


              It reminds me of the ending of the joke about the need to kill a million Arabs and one dentist.
              But why a dentist?
              I knew that killing a million Arabs would not raise objections ...

              that is, in fact, the article has no objections?
          2. Pernach1
            Pernach1 21 June 2017 15: 26 New
            +6
            Ignorance of the Polish language, for Russian is not a vice
      2. Pushkar
        Pushkar 21 June 2017 11: 10 New
        0
        Quote: Victor Jnnjdfy
        Craces Sunrise. How can I write an article without knowing the elementary? Names ...

        And what is the Polish name for Russia?
      3. Sergey956
        Sergey956 21 June 2017 11: 41 New
        +2
        No matter what you call it, even a night pot. It is important who owns this pot.
      4. kitamo
        kitamo 21 June 2017 11: 41 New
        +7
        Quote: Victor Jnnjdfy
        Craces Sunrise. How can I write an article without knowing the elementary? Names ...


        and Moscow, this is Moscow, and not Moscow, and Russia, not Rush at all ...
        and what?
        Will we remake English, or will the British retrain?
        this is the same story as with on / in Ukraine ... well, Ukrainians decided that in Ukrainian there will be “in Ukraine”, on what basis, they are trying to prove to the Russians that in Russian, too, should be exactly “in” if the Russians consider that should be "on" ...
        1. Victor jnnjdfy
          Victor jnnjdfy 21 June 2017 13: 04 New
          +2
          So you need to write in Russian "eastern lands", and not curse oneself with the "gangway". Go down the gangways. I know in Polish both Russia and the Soviet Union. Why do you need it? Learn English instead of Polish, and use Russian on a Russian-language website.
          1. Olezhek
            21 June 2017 13: 38 New
            +2
            So you need to write in Russian "eastern lands"


            With the phrase eastern lands, many just associate with the "eastern lands of Germany" selected by the Poles
            Similar armchairs - quite a term!
            It's clear and clear that the conversation is going on
          2. mig.vlad2015
            mig.vlad2015 21 June 2017 21: 13 New
            +1
            Stupid Poland is closer to her and start, and leave the British for a snack.
          3. sheridans
            sheridans 23 June 2017 13: 14 New
            0
            It’s good to be a moralist, but you need to feel the boundaries of teachings. And they can even call them “pshoklenty curvy”.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 21 June 2017 14: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: kitamo
          and Moscow, this is Moscow, and not Moscow, and Russia, not Rush at all ...

          And China is not China but very China, and Saudi Arabia is not Arabia, but very Arabia.
    2. igorserg
      igorserg 21 June 2017 12: 20 New
      0
      then the Russian soldier will not ... betray the curse of all who drove the Russian soldier over the hill - Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov ...?
    3. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 21 June 2017 16: 12 New
      +2
      Not so sensible. Here with this:
      If you want to speak out for the USA, then the USA is weakening every year and is more and more immersed in its own problems. The Ukrainian crisis proved just that: they were still able to make a coup, but there is no longer a peaceful life in Ukraine. Ukrainians are allocated some kind of ridiculous millions.
      strongly disagree. Why pay money and make life for someone you rob?
    4. prosto_rgb
      prosto_rgb 22 June 2017 16: 38 New
      0
      Quote: seti
      Very competent and sensible article.

      And what is her literacy?
      Well, at least the author would not disgrace so pulling "Owl on the globe of Ukraine" laughing
      Okay, about what and when the eastern border of Poland was defined in 1945, and the Helsinki Agreements go there too - it’s clear that the author has Wikipedia, as the rest of the Internet hangs at the mark “year 1939”.
      But maybe the author will tell you why for the attack on Poland in 1939. III Reich England and France declared war, and the USSR for the "Liberation Campaign" (the same actions), and in fact, in general, no direct declaration of direct support for the 3rd Reich in the war against Poland?
      And they were expelled from the League of Nations (but this is not a declaration of war, is it?) Only after the attack on Finland?
      1. erofich
        erofich 27 June 2017 23: 19 New
        0
        And whose history book did you read, Mr. Good?
        1. prosto_rgb
          prosto_rgb 28 June 2017 19: 02 New
          0
          Quote: erofich
          And whose history book did you read, Mr. Good?

          I will say more, not even a textbook
  2. Egoza
    Egoza 21 June 2017 06: 30 New
    +11
    In this case, the narrow-minded Ukrainians will even rejoice if part of Ukraine is “torn off”. "Europe has become closer. Travel will be cheaper and relatives will be able to settle down." Naive! As soon as these lands are torn off, there will be imposed SUCH orders that the sky with a sheepskin appears.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 21 June 2017 15: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: Egoza
      Naive! As soon as these lands are torn off, there will be imposed SUCH orders that the sky with a sheepskin appears.

      Poles have rich experience in ethnic cleansing of territories.
      In the soft version, the Poles can repeat the repatriation ("population exchange") of 1944-1946. and Operation Wisla.
      And in the hard ... in the hard in the territories of Kresy Wschodnie, pacification will begin again.
      1. Victor jnnjdfy
        Victor jnnjdfy 21 June 2017 16: 18 New
        +5
        Alex (cottage in Olgino?), So that there are no questions. You wrote the name of the territory in Polish. Clever man. About the Poles. They remember very well only the evil that someone brought them. Give them free rein, they will turn the Ukrainian ass inside out. I rested about five years ago in the Carpathians and talked with the locals (the benefit of Ukrainian, Polish and German are familiar to me). They, local, to the dupes (priests) Bandera and Tips. The main land. And the descendants of the Polish besiegers preserved documents on land rights from 1923. And already in 2012, they tried to run into the Hutsuls.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 22 June 2017 09: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: Victor Jnnjdfy
          Alex (cottage in Olgino?)

          Not ... just a photo of the tablet "55 Savushkina St." on the avatar is not readable. smile
          Quote: Victor Jnnjdfy
          They, local, to the dupes (priests) Bandera and Tips. The main land.

          Like 100 and 200 years ago. Until they come with the surplus appraisal or they don’t begin to take away the land, they don’t give a damn what kind of power.
          1. Victor jnnjdfy
            Victor jnnjdfy 22 June 2017 16: 43 New
            0
            I suspected that 80 percent of commentators at VO are on a salary ... Alexei, since you are from there, perhaps, pat on Savushkin so that they take me part-time?
    2. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 21 June 2017 16: 20 New
      +4
      It will not seem, because nothing and SOME will seem. Those will not remain there. They will survive from there, turn into slaves, drive them away to a concentration camp, etc. This is quite European.
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 June 2017 06: 43 New
    +10
    For reference - the western borders of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania - these are the consequences of the very cursed act "Molotov-Ribbentrop"

    For reference to the author: the eastern border of Poland is defined on Yalta Conference 1945 and approved by the Treaty between the USSR and Poland in 1945
    No Molotov Pact is mentioned there, and generally nothing to do with it.
    1. Olezhek
      21 June 2017 06: 47 New
      +2
      For reference to the commentator: Poland lost the eastern lands 1 precisely in 1939 m
      2 USSR is no more.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 21 June 2017 08: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: Olezhek
        For reference to the commentator: Poland lost the eastern lands 1 precisely in 1939 m

        For reference to the author:
        1. The border (namely, he himself speaks about), was determined in 1945 and WITHOUT mention of any pacts.
        2. Ukraine is part of the Union, with recognized the Union itself the borders. All other countries recognized the same borders.
        1. Olezhek
          21 June 2017 09: 01 New
          +3
          The border (namely, he himself is talking about), was defined in 1945 and WITHOUT mentioning any pacts.


          Was the 1945 border of the year closer to the 1940 or 1938 border? And why?
          Or do you want to say that in 1945 they simply drew a certain line from the bulldozer?
          In 1945 were confirmed changes made under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in the 1939 year ... without mentioning the pact itself. (mentioning the bright name of Ribbentrop in 1945 was not very convenient)

          Ukraine is part of the Union, with borders recognized by the Union itself. All other countries recognized the same borders.


          Komrad, sorry, the USSR, but no more ...
          1. Niccola Mack
            Niccola Mack 21 June 2017 09: 21 New
            +5
            In 1945, the changes carried out under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in 1939 were confirmed.

            Do not talk rubbish - the “Curzon line” option A was taken as the basis - even somewhat towards Poland (under the Soviet-Polish agreement of the year 45). The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact does not appear here at all.
            1. Olezhek
              21 June 2017 09: 29 New
              +1
              Do not talk rubbish - the “Curzon line” option A was taken as the basis - even somewhat towards Poland (under the Soviet-Polish agreement of the year 45). The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact does not appear here at all.


              Again:
              Was the 1945 border of the year closer to the 1940 or 1938 border? And why?


              "Curzon Line" a quarter of a century after the WWII and Versailles ... nice ...
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 21 June 2017 09: 33 New
                +2
                Quote: Olezhek
                Curzon line"a quarter of a century after the WWII and Versailles ... it’s nice ...

                It was developed and adopted. Entente countries, these same countries, in continuation of their own decisions, actually confirmed it in Yalta in 1945.
                1. Olezhek
                  21 June 2017 10: 35 New
                  +4
                  Curzon line

                  It was developed and adopted by the countries of the Entente, these same countries, in continuation of their own decisions, actually confirmed it in Yalta 1945


                  But in order to bring the Russian border to this very damn de facto line, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was required ...
                  1. Ulan
                    Ulan 21 June 2017 11: 46 New
                    +3
                    The conclusion from the foregoing is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact cannot be “criminal” in any way.
                    So those who consider him like that are either fools or scum.
                    Or both. As they say, one does not interfere with the other.
                    1. Olezhek
                      21 June 2017 13: 43 New
                      +4
                      The conclusion from the foregoing is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact cannot be “criminal” in any way.


                      In any case, by and large, from a legal point of view, this is a problem of Lithuania / Poland / Ukraine / Belarus but not Russia ...
                      1. Ulan
                        Ulan 21 June 2017 14: 31 New
                        +2
                        Now, yes, exactly.
                2. For your motherland, your mother))
                  For your motherland, your mother)) 21 June 2017 20: 01 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Quote: Olezhek
                  Curzon line"a quarter of a century after the WWII and Versailles ... it’s nice ...

                  It was developed and adopted. Entente countries, these same countries, in continuation of their own decisions, actually confirmed it in Yalta in 1945.

                  Forgive me, Olgovich, but all the lines of Curzon and the Ribbentrops with the Molotovs did not hinder at all to recognize the gouging of the USSR, that is, and therefore, Olgovich, you are mistaken - all these pacts mean nothing to neither modern Ukraine, nor present Poland meanings - and they won’t save Ukraine from Poland’s claims - this is what the article is about.
                  If the Ukrainian authorities had realized in time what they were doing with the recognition of the illegality of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact, they would not have done it, in fact, they themselves threw a shield that defended them — this is what the author is trying to explain to you.
                  I’ll tell you more, we, Olgovich, we know a similar country (we really know), which, by recognizing the illegality of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact, went even further than Ukraine — this is Moldova. Ukraine is losing part of its legitimacy over part of its territory - and the Republic of Moldova, in effect, the abolition of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, questioned the very existence of Moldova as a state in general-- therefore, in the ranking of idiotic government decisions, I still take Ukraine to an honorable second place, well and the first, certainly --- belongs to Moldova.))).
              2. Niccola Mack
                Niccola Mack 21 June 2017 09: 35 New
                +3
                "Curzon Line" a quarter of a century after the WWII and Versailles ... nice ...

                Exactly, especially when you look at the map and the minutes of the Big Three conferences laughing !!!
                The three powers believe that the eastern border of Poland should go along the Curzon line with deviations from it in some areas from five to eight kilometers in favor of Poland. (

                Fact!!!
                1. Olezhek
                  21 June 2017 10: 32 New
                  +2
                  Until 1939, oddly enough, no one remembered and was not going to remember the "Kherson line" ...
                  It took the arrival of the valiant Red Army ... in 1939 (after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)
                  And the defeat of the Natsik ... on the Soviet front ... and then, THEN they all drowned again about the line of Mr. Kherson ...

                  Some kind of this "line" is too abstract ... without Soviet tanks and planes ...
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 21 June 2017 11: 21 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Niccola Mack
                  The three powers believe that the eastern border of Poland should go along the Curzon line with deviations from it in some areas from five to eight kilometers in favor of Poland. (
                  Fact!!!


                  here you can’t break through the facts! lol
        2. Sergey956
          Sergey956 21 June 2017 11: 43 New
          +2
          Countries recognized the borders of the Soviet Union, not the newly created freeloader states.
    2. kitamo
      kitamo 21 June 2017 11: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      For reference - the western borders of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania - these are the consequences of the very cursed act "Molotov-Ribbentrop"

      For reference to the author: the eastern border of Poland is defined on Yalta Conference 1945 and approved by the Treaty between the USSR and Poland in 1945
      No Molotov Pact is mentioned there, and generally nothing to do with it.


      and the western border of Ukraine, is it mentioned there? or just the eastern border of Poland?
    3. avt
      avt 21 June 2017 17: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      For reference to the author: the eastern border of Poland was determined at the Yalta Conference of 1945 and approved by the Treaty between the USSR and Poland in 1945.
      For reference, know-all about nothing to do with
      Quote: Olgovich
      No Molotov Pact is mentioned there, and generally nothing to do with it.

      The border of the Commonwealth was actually outlined by the Curzon Line by the Entente countries in Versailles. But after the deeds of the victorious Marshal Misha, she became a sort of east. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact established areas of interest. Moreover, the interests of the USSR coincided, as it was by accident, mainly with the Curzon Line. Well, the joke is probably a “bloody tyrant" and the Friend of all athletes. According to the results of the Patriotic War, the Poles were even cut as many pieces east of the Curzon Line. And then Uncle Lenya signed for Helsinki with all European states, plus USA and Canada A. But of course you can stupidly bend for
      Quote: Olgovich
      It was determined in 1945 and WITHOUT mention of any pacts.

      It happens worse, of course, but the mountain is less frequent.
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 June 2017 08: 09 New
    +4
    The author somehow "affectionately" leads readers to the fact that the mayhem started in Ukraine (not without the help of Russia) is good and legally justified. The photograph at the end of the article was especially pleased - I personally caused a smile. Often my weather forecast annoys me - sometimes the weather in Spain, then in the resorts of Turkey. According to the author, is our army preparing for a breakthrough in the Pyrenees? The current reality is my nightmare. Yes, probably, and not only mine. I could never imagine that such a deep split would occur between fraternal peoples, and my father would bitterly ask me on Skype - "why?! ..."
    1. Olezhek
      21 June 2017 09: 04 New
      +1
      The current reality is my nightmare. Yes, probably, and not only mine.


      Life is impossible to turn back ...

    2. Damir
      Damir 21 June 2017 10: 16 New
      +8
      lawlessness started in Ukraine (not without the help of Russia) is good and legally justified

      oh how ... so it turns out that the damned Raska is to blame for the fact that the tamers do not want to think with their own heads ???

      Free cakes and cookies DO NOT HAPPEN !!!! you have to pay for everything ... and the more you are told about a freebie, the more you will give back later ...
    3. kitamo
      kitamo 21 June 2017 11: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      The photograph at the end of the article was especially pleased - I personally caused a smile. Often my weather forecast annoys me - sometimes the weather in Spain, then in the resorts of Turkey.


      and those Spanish and Turkish resorts in our weather forecasts, on maps with Moscow draw on the same borders?
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 21 June 2017 11: 55 New
        +1
        I'll try it now.... it happens? or are you watching another television?
        1. Ulan
          Ulan 21 June 2017 13: 12 New
          +2
          What does this have to do with the topic? In the elderberry garden?
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 21 June 2017 13: 27 New
            +1
            I tried to answer the previous questioner - kitamo
        2. Dym71
          Dym71 21 June 2017 13: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          it happens? or are you watching another television?

          Where is the inscription on your picture "today in Russia" by analogy with "dzisiaj w Polsce"?
          Do not have time to finish? bully
    4. avt
      avt 21 June 2017 17: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      The author somehow "affectionately" leads readers to the fact that the mayhem started in Ukraine (not without the help of Russia) is good and legally justified.

      Well, first of all, where is Russia and the races on the Maidan? Lavrov, or did Zakharova distribute cookies to the maydauns? Secondly, your parliament itself has refused the succession of the Ukrainian SSR. So ALL the normative acts of the Ukrainian SSR, thanks to Pa Biy, went to Pogtman. Including the annexation of the western lands by Stalin and Donetsk of the Krivoy Rog Republic to Lenin. So it’s too late to drink Borzh when the kidneys have fallen off.
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I could never imagine that such a deep split would occur between fraternal peoples, and my father would bitterly ask me on Skype - "why?! ..."

      And who you, the brotherly people “makes you live, in spite of Russia, not according to the principle-Measure seven times, cut once? And here we are, if you prefer to cut seven times, and then measure once? Well, of course, Russia is to blame, what else at the beginning of the races we were here on the site and said - all the one presenting the horse will throw us.
    5. mig.vlad2015
      mig.vlad2015 21 June 2017 21: 31 New
      +1
      The leader of the Red Cities, can you tell me what help Russia provided to the lawlessness on the baboons.
      1. mig.vlad2015
        mig.vlad2015 21 June 2017 21: 39 New
        0
        Judging by the red rag next to your nickname, you are the descendant of the Red Roots, you are a descendant of the communists who created this chimera, baboonia, with amazing baboons.
    6. beeper
      beeper 22 June 2017 03: 17 New
      +1
      Do you knowingly or "unconsciously" engage in "substitution of meanings" ??? wink
      Indeed, in the "TV picture" of the BORDERS of the Polish weather forecast for the dull "viewers" there is an understandable inscription in Polish "today IN POLAND"! yes
    7. karakol
      karakol 24 June 2017 19: 46 New
      0
      I didn’t sing for a long time and sang not at all what I needed
  5. Revolver
    Revolver 21 June 2017 08: 15 New
    +9
    In fact, if the Panov are completely insolent and demand the borders of 1939, then for starters they should return to Germany Danzig, Stettin, Breslau, and other lands of Silesia and East Prussia. And the Czechs (or Slovaks - not in the know of such details) say goodbye to the Sudetenland. There, it seems, even on the border between Hungary and Romania, not everything is indisputable. And not only in Eastern Europe - there is also Alsace and Lorraine, which France took over from Germany in 1918, and gave back in 1940. And in Italy, on the border with Austria, there are many cities and towns where in Italian they may not understand, but ask communicate in human German. In general, you just have to touch it, and it will sprinkle like a house of cards.
    1. Olezhek
      21 June 2017 09: 09 New
      +3
      In fact, if the Panov are completely insolent and demand the borders of the 1939 of the year, then for starters they should return Danzig, Stettin, Breslau, and other lands of Silesia and East Prussia to Germany


      Comrad - dig deeper!
      Poland "chopped off the original German lands" in a completely different situation ...
      There are different legal issues.
      Do not mix it all up ...
    2. Sergey956
      Sergey956 21 June 2017 11: 45 New
      +1
      In Eastern Europe, after the collapse of the USSR, this process is just beginning. And he will, whether we want it or not. Ukraine and the Baltic states only accelerate these processes.
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 21 June 2017 15: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: Nagan
      then for starters they should return to Germany Danzig, Stettin, Breslau, and other lands of Silesia and East Prussia.

      Then they first need to return Poland to Russia. laughing
  6. antivirus
    antivirus 21 June 2017 08: 19 New
    +3
    And its industry, and its infrastructure, and its borders. The most offensive is that those very borders are also a product of Soviet power.
    ----------- everyone understands this.
    and Kohlam and Bulbash do not care for the borders, they need to become part of Europe, the EU. it is better to go district-wise (western) to Poland, Slovakia, Romania.
    And the Russian Federation. after this departure, he will remain with the eastern stools-bulbashs and Russians in these under-republics-oligarchic bits.
    Without the east-oriented part of the citizens (?) Of Ukria and Belarus.
    No one will solve the problems of our vast spaces - only we.
    And the failure in ideology, the building of their consciousness in a direction friendly to us, is to be decided anyway by Mikhalkov and Shargunov (or others, but by our "talkers")
  7. Aitvaras
    Aitvaras 21 June 2017 08: 55 New
    +2
    The author lives according to the concepts of the Middle Ages, i.e. e. who is stronger is right. International law is not worth the paper where the signatures are. If it would be so in fact, Italy would immediately demand that Paris be returned to its "home harbor" as a gift to the French from Julius Caesar or France would present territorial claims to England and demand that London be returned, as their original land since the time of William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy.
    1. Gorinich
      Gorinich 21 June 2017 09: 06 New
      +8
      It is you who live in a fantasy world, International law is really a fiction. By the way, take an interest in the history of the word "law", also curious.
      1. Aitvaras
        Aitvaras 21 June 2017 11: 14 New
        0
        In Lithuania, too, there are those who believe that this is a legal fiction and urge, screaming heart-rendingly in the square, to jump on a war horse and put their battle ax in the Kremlin gate, like our prince Algirdas in 1368 or as comrade. Stalin, when asked "how many tank divisions does the Pope have?"
        1. Ulan
          Ulan 21 June 2017 13: 15 New
          +5
          Though consider, though not consider, and it is a fact. And he trampled this international law - namely the West.
        2. Olezhek
          21 June 2017 13: 56 New
          +4
          In Lithuania, too, there are those who believe that this is a legal fiction and urge, screaming heart-rendingly in the square, to jump on a war horse


          The trouble is that Poland has an army ... but Lithuania does not ... request
        3. Setrac
          Setrac 21 June 2017 14: 44 New
          +4
          Quote: Aitvaras
          or as comrade Stalin, when asked "how many tank divisions does the Pope have?"

          But Comrade Stalin was right.
    2. Olezhek
      21 June 2017 09: 07 New
      +6
      The author lives according to the concepts of the Middle Ages, i.e. e. who is stronger is right.

      According to Hillary Clinton, the first reason for the indispensability of the United States - in the world's most powerful army.
      1. uskrabut
        uskrabut 21 June 2017 16: 07 New
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek
        The author lives according to the concepts of the Middle Ages, i.e. e. who is stronger is right.


        And there is simply no other approach and is not planned. Evidence in recent history in bulk. In the future, I also do not see the prospects for a fair coexistence of states. Strong countries will decide everything, perhaps they will reckon with the owners of weapons of mass destruction (they can sorely snap). And that's it, and that's the only way.
    3. novel66
      novel66 21 June 2017 10: 03 New
      +7
      tell about international law of Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq
      1. Olezhek
        21 June 2017 14: 13 New
        +2


        Tell her about international law ...
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 21 June 2017 15: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: Aitvaras
      The author lives according to the concepts of the Middle Ages, i.e. e. who is stronger is right. International law is not worth the paper where the signatures are. If it would be so in fact, Italy would immediately demand that Paris be returned to its "home harbor" as a gift to the French from Julius Caesar or France would present territorial claims to England and demand that London be returned, as their original land since the time of William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy.

      Yes, yes, yes ... international law - it is. What is written on paper and signed by the parties is always fulfilled. Otherwise - without fail punishment for violation. Moreover, regardless of the forces of the violator of law.
      And how-condemned the UN NATO for the bombing of Yugoslavia? For a second invasion of Iraq - without WMD found? For the invasion of Libya under the guise of "no-fly zones."
      Kstaaati ... and Yanukovych lost the early elections in 2014? After all, the Agreement on the Settlement of the Political Crisis in Ukraine was signed, witnessed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Germany, Poland and France, according to which:
      The agreement provided for an immediate return to the 2004 Constitution, the formation of a “government of national trust”, constitutional reform, and early presidential elections by the end of 2014. It also provided for the withdrawal of law enforcement forces from the center of Kiev, the cessation of violence and the opposition's surrender of weapons.
    5. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 21 June 2017 16: 01 New
      +2
      Maybe war is a failure of diplomacy, but even the best diplomats act on credit. Sooner or later, someone less intelligent than you will demand your contribution back, and if your army cannot cover your debt obligations, you lose.

      © David Weber
    6. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 22 June 2017 04: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Aitvaras
      .If this would be so in fact, Italy would immediately demand that Paris be returned to its "home harbor" as a gift to the French from Julius Caesar

      Ultimatum to a nuclear power? Strong good
      Quote: Aitvaras
      or France would have presented territorial claims to England and demanded the return of London

      Even stronger is the local nuclear armageddet in front of the sober Russia and the USA fool
    7. karakol
      karakol 24 June 2017 19: 53 New
      0
      By the way, do your overseas owners look at international law differently? And slaves must live as pan pointed
    8. Torkvat torkvat
      Torkvat torkvat 27 June 2017 11: 11 New
      0
      A simple example: CRIMEA! ))))) Howl, screech and ... EVERYTHING)))
  8. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 21 June 2017 09: 33 New
    +4
    Quote: Olgovich
    For reference - the western borders of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania - these are the consequences of the very cursed act "Molotov-Ribbentrop"

    For reference to the author: the eastern border of Poland is defined on Yalta Conference 1945 and approved by the Treaty between the USSR and Poland in 1945
    No Molotov Pact is mentioned there, and generally nothing to do with it.

    Are you okay? And what about the German fellow countrymen? What about Lithuania? Until 1945, 10% of Lithuanians lived in Vilna ... And Belarus? Dill is generally a separate conversation ...
  9. forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 21 June 2017 09: 58 New
    +2
    Given today's political realities, even Russia, in principle, can recognize "not complete and not final justice of the Molotov-Ribentropp Pact"

    It cannot and will not do it. The article is like the wet dreams of misanthrope. Minus.
    1. Olezhek
      21 June 2017 10: 45 New
      +2
      It cannot and will not do it.


      The official position of the Russian Federation after the return of Crimea: the territorial integrity of Ukraine is its and only its problem.

      Cruel, I agree ...
  10. Catherine II
    Catherine II 21 June 2017 10: 49 New
    +4
    A very illiterate article, a common opinion, and also the style of the gateway
    territory of Belarus is golem result

    where the author was pierced in the first one - about neutrals .. it’s clear that diplomacy didn’t spend the night (for reference, Ukraine’s neutrality was beneficial to Russia as a buffer and sphere of interests)
    and then a stream of consciousness, an incorrect interpretation of the law on decommunization, an attempt to juggle threats - to cancel the Pact, forgetting that the military borders in Europe, the Poles, etc., regulate the post
    the main conclusion is that everyone urgently needs to be friends with Russia, for we will do such dirty tricks, wow.
    the author forgot about territorial disputes with the same Ukraine, which became the reason for the inability to be neutral ..
    territorial claims to neighbors (Crimean scenarios to Belarus and Kazakhstan)
    as well as the main thing, the slurred policy of the Russian Federation as to the post-Soviet space and in general to everything ...
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 21 June 2017 13: 23 New
      +5
      Well, okay. Again, the same thing - "the oaths of guilty are to blame for everything." At least something new.
      Russia is not going to do dirty tricks to anyone, it’s basically a dirty trick for us.
      Or do you think that respecting Russia's interests is "doing dirty tricks"?
      It is interesting why only Russia should not observe its national interests and this is considered something impermissible, while others can?
      No dear, Russia is not going to ask anyone for permission, in order to comply primarily with its interests.
      The article correctly says that each country should take care of its territorial integrity.
      And no international law has long been a guarantee.
      Russia will only help its allies, those who have an agreement on mutual assistance with it.
      The borders, Ukraine was really provided by a powerful empire - the USSR, now no one provides.
      1. Catherine II
        Catherine II 21 June 2017 14: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Ulan
        Again, the same thing - "the oaths of guilty are to blame for everything." At least something new.

        I don’t have this in my answer, but I don’t support stereotypes
        Quote: Ulan
        Do you think that respecting Russia's interests is "doing dirty tricks"?

        it is possible and necessary to observe the interests, but the author offers a very strange way that will not bring benefits.
        Quote: Ulan
        The article correctly says that each country should take care of its territorial integrity.

        article that the Russian Federation can affect the borders (strange way) of neighbors. And the main conclusion is, Make friends with us, otherwise your borders will be changed. The author takes the Russian Federation out of the blow of his own way.
        Is the author wisely advising? Diplomatically and logically, no.
        Quote: Ulan
        Russia will only help its allies, those who have an agreement on mutual assistance with it.

        I can only say that no pieces of paper guarantee anything ...
        only strength, the ability to inflict unacceptable damage on the interests of a country encroaching on a change in border.
        I’m afraid that the Russian Federation cannot guarantee its “allies” either because of the significance and interests of its own.
        Quote: Ulan
        The borders, Ukraine was really provided by a powerful empire - the USSR, now no one provides

        the borders of any country are virtual borders. Secured by power and money.
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 21 June 2017 16: 11 New
          +9
          The article is that: "Well, son, did your Poles help you?" That's what it is about.
        2. karakol
          karakol 24 June 2017 19: 59 New
          0
          Like in that cartoon: we don’t need friendship either with Lithuania or with hohland. with such friends and enemies are not needed. calm down already and get down to solving your problems
    2. Olezhek
      21 June 2017 13: 59 New
      +1
      an attempt to juggle threats - to abolish the Pact, forgetting that the military borders in Europe, the Poles, etc.
      the main conclusion is that everyone urgently needs to be friends with Russia, for we will do such dirty tricks, wow.
      the author forgot about territorial disputes with the same Ukraine, which became the reason for the inability to be neutral.


      1 Nobody is trying to threaten - it's late already
      2 Urgently to be friends with Russia for Lithuania and Ukraine is stupidly late. It’s very late.
      For Belarus, too, practically (they run to another steppe)
      3 The author stupidly states that the western border of Ukraine / Lithuania / Belarus has to do with the very pact that both Lithuania and Ukraine (!!!) recognized as criminal ...

      Today, Russia no longer wants to be friends with Ukraine anyway.

      The article is NOT an agitation for "friendship with Russia." A kind of "memory of the future"
    3. mig.vlad2015
      mig.vlad2015 21 June 2017 21: 59 New
      +1
      Catherine II - as always, a stream of muddy consciousness, what disputes with the territory named Outskirts, the very existence of this reserve of baboons, became possible only thanks to the drinking of three drunks in the country and it is completely illegal.
  11. The black
    The black 21 June 2017 11: 01 New
    +1
    All Ukrainian politicians understand. It’s just that they have such an idea, it’s just that the West has not yet understood. smile Like you used us - now feed. And for free laughing
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 21 June 2017 14: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Black
      It’s just that they have such an idea, it’s just that the West has not yet understood. Like you used us - now feed. And for free

      An idiotic idea! And if they refuse? And they will refuse!
  12. uskrabut
    uskrabut 21 June 2017 15: 55 New
    +1
    Yes, yes! But Ukrainians screech when the Poles have soaped their withers. They will scream that the oaths of Muscovites betrayed them, did not intercede for the brothers.
  13. Koshak
    Koshak 21 June 2017 17: 16 New
    +1
    And are the eastern borders of Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states (EMNIP) still not demarcated? repeat
  14. For your motherland, your mother))
    For your motherland, your mother)) 21 June 2017 19: 44 New
    +1
    Thank you, Oleg Egorov for a quality, reasoned and verbal article. Good job.
    A particular argument is given to the article itself by the fact of the history of the territory around the Snake Island, when something called Romania dared to kick Ukraine, and as it turned out, it kicked with success. After this story, I fully believe that the scenario described in your article is not a fantasy at all, but a possible reality.
    You are absolutely right, Ukraine with independence granted and not gained to it, is not a power, but something pot-bellied, stupid entity, and not quite rightfully owning some territories, from which one wants to pinch something.
    I think you're right, the time will come, and Poland and Hungary will pinch something off Ukraine, according to the actual example of Romania, moreover, beautifully, democratically, with skillful use of the European court - their most independent courts)))).
  15. avaks111
    avaks111 21 June 2017 21: 02 New
    +1
    Is America weakening as we all want? I feel that she grabbed onto Ukraine for a long time, as if not forever!
    1. Bubarius
      Bubarius 21 June 2017 22: 51 New
      +1
      They don’t grab anything, now they’ll rake up the leftovers and they’ll be sawing, the derban team wasn’t just because it’s a splinter for us, and the article is interesting in summarizing the material, all the facts were already and it’s clear what will happen, they now live with wet dreams of rights and the rules, as we are in the 90s, it will pass)) you look at these reserves of communism, you tell them look at our 90s, they don’t understand the world, friendship is chewing gum, yeah ... How they will run into food.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. ibirus
    ibirus 22 June 2017 00: 16 New
    +1
    Bravo to the author. I read in rapture and irony. You need to write a book about the realities of modern politics with the roots of the 20-30s.
  18. Architects
    Architects 22 June 2017 05: 13 New
    0
    Some scanty armchairs. The Ural Mountains Poles see Moscow as a county Polish proud
    1. For your motherland, your mother))
      For your motherland, your mother)) 22 June 2017 06: 22 New
      0
      It all starts with a dream))).
  19. prosto_rgb
    prosto_rgb 22 June 2017 16: 36 New
    0
    Well, at least the author would not disgrace so pulling "Owl on the globe of Ukraine" laughing
    Okay, about what and when the eastern border of Poland was defined in 1945, and the Helsinki Agreements go there too - it’s clear that the author has Wikipedia, as the rest of the Internet hangs at the mark “year 1939”.
    But maybe the author will tell you why for the attack on Poland in 1939. III Reich England and France declared war, and the USSR for the "Liberation Campaign" (the same actions), and in fact, in general, no direct declaration of direct support for the 3rd Reich in the war against Poland?
    And they were expelled from the League of Nations (but this is not a declaration of war, is it?) Only after the attack on Finland?
  20. The splinter
    The splinter 23 June 2017 08: 16 New
    0
    Well, let these independent ones boil in their own juice, it’s time for the Russian Federation to stop feeding them, arm and protect them for free, and it’s time to stop giving them jobs
    1. karakol
      karakol 24 June 2017 20: 03 New
      0
      "Your Golden Words, Pavel Venediktovich"
  21. Torkvat torkvat
    Torkvat torkvat 27 June 2017 11: 08 New
    0
    2 aspects: apologetics of Putin’s policy and “dreams” about “Eastern armchairs”. The EU does not have the right to change borders. Poland de jure does not have the right to change existing borders, or fly out of the EU. Like Hungary. Poland and so most likely will economically enslave ALL Ukraine. 2 million. Gaster already work for them ... So, that's all fantasies on a given topic.
    1. Olezhek
      27 June 2017 21: 02 New
      0
      Those. Poland de jure does not have the right to change existing borders, or fly out of the EU


      Try to frighten the Poles with this scenario ...
  22. Ace Tambourine
    Ace Tambourine 27 June 2017 14: 46 New
    0
    Oh ...
    In the words of the classic, "no matter what they say, all will bring one thing to women ..."
    What is the article about?
    But no ... It is necessary, obligatory, to drag Ukraine ...
    Aftor ugh on the tongue ...
  23. EvilLion
    EvilLion 19 November 2018 11: 48 New
    0
    In fact, no statements will be made about the crime of the Stalinist regime of the Russian Federation, otherwise the question also arises of squeezing Germany out of small compensation for the genocide.