Dmitry Donskoy. Russian land gatherer

78
It is in fairy tales that warriors of up to thirty-three years old “lay on the stove”. In fact, everything was much sadder. In the 1359 year, thirty-three years old, Ivan II Ivanovich Krasny died - the son of Ivan I Kalita, Prince Zvenigorod to 1354, Prince of Moscow and Grand Prince Vladimir in 1353 — 1359, Prince of Novgorod in 1355 — 1359.

The untimely departed prince had a son, Dmitry Ivanovich. But at the time of his father’s death, the prince’s son was only nine years old - not so much to manage the vast lands that Prince Ivan managed to collect under his own hand. The guardian of the young Dmitry became Metropolitan Alexy. In the world his name was Elevfery Fedorovich Bjakont. Metropolitan of Kiev and All Russia, Alexy gained great political influence under Ivan II. Therefore, after the death of the prince, he actually concentrated in his hands the real power in the Moscow principality, becoming a regent for juvenile Dmitry.



Dmitry Donskoy. Russian land gatherer


Prince Dmitry will later become the leader of the antiordynian resistance and will enter history as one of the most prominent defenders of the Russian land. But if Dmitri personified the political and military leadership of the Moscow principality against its many opponents - Lithuanians, Horde, rivals from other Russian princes, then Metropolitan Alexy was at the heart of the formation of the very idea of ​​liberation from the Golden Horde yoke. First, it was Metropolitan Alexy who over the years exercised leadership in the foreign policy of the Moscow principality. The main opponent of the Moscow principality during this period was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Metropolitan Alexy acted very skillfully, giving an ideological character to this confrontation.

The struggle of the Moscow principality against Lithuania began to be viewed as an opposition of the Christian world and pagans. After all, a significant part of Lithuania at that time was still pagan, and this circumstance could not but be used by the visionary Metropolitan Alexy for his own purposes. In the 60 of the XIV century. Metropolitan Alexy will excommunicate the church for an alliance with the pagans who supported the Lithuanian Olgerd, Svyatoslav of Smolensk, Mikhail of Tver, and even Bishop of Tver, Basil. Patriarch Filofei issued a letter in 1370, which supported the actions of Metropolitan Alexy and condemned the princes, whom Philotheus offered to repent and join Prince Dmitry of Moscow.



Metropolitan Alexy was not only the actual ruler of the Grand Duchy of Moscow at the time, while Dmitry was still a very young man, but also brought up the prince, was his mentor and, perhaps, these very lessons of the saint made Dmitry a fighter for the liberation of the Russian land. When the question arose about the choice of the Grand Duke of Vladimir, Metropolitan Alexy used his influence at the court of the khans of the Golden Horde and did everything that was in his power to approve the Grand Prince of Vladimir Dmitry Ivanovich. By the way, the label to Dmitry Ivanovich was given by the beklyarbek of the Golden Horde Mamai - the very one whose warriors through 18 had clashed with the Dmitry heroes on the Kulikovo field.

In the Golden Horde, the title of beklyarbek was worn by the highest dignitary, who ruled the entire state administration. In fact, it was an analogue of the modern head of government. Temnik Mamai (1335-1380), becoming the backside of the Golden Horde in 1361, managed to concentrate in his hands almost the full power in a weakening Horde. The only thing that prevented him from proclaiming himself Khan was the lack of kinship with Chingizids. Therefore, Mamai remained a beklyarbek, and on the throne was put the puppet Khan Abdullah - the youngest of the ten sons of Khan Uzbek. In fact, the power in the Horde was in the hands of Mamai, who successfully reflected the attempts of other khans - rivals of Abdullah to take power in the state into their own hands.

Dmitry Moscow at first even enjoyed a favorable attitude on the part of Mamai. It was Mamai who, with the filing of Metropolitan Alexy, organized a label for Dmitry on the great reign in Vladimir. However, then the strengthening of the Moscow principality alerted Mamai. The Golden Horde began to seek an alliance with opponents of the Moscow principality. Mikhail Alexandrovich Tverskoy was long ago a well-known opponent of the Moscow principality and a longtime ally of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. He maintained good relations with the Lithuanian prince Olgerd, which was explained very simply - Michael's sister Juliana Alexandrovna was married to Olgerd. Therefore, when the Prince of Tver, when he felt that he was unable to cope with his next opponent, he turned to his son-in-law for help. When in August 1370, the troops of Dmitry of Moscow looted the principality of Tver, Michael was forced to flee to Lithuania. In 1371, he went to the Golden Horde in order to obtain from Khan a label for the great reign in Vladimir. Beklyarbek Mamai, on behalf of Khan Abdullah, gave Mikhail Aleksandrovich the coveted label and even offered military assistance for approval on the princely throne in Vladimir. However, Michael refused the Horde troops. Only the ambassador of the Golden Horde of Sary-Khoja went to Russia with him. However, when Sary-Khoja called Dmitry of Moscow to appear in Vladimir to the grand duke, Dmitry refused and declared that they would not allow Mikhail to rule Vladimirskoe.

Soon Dmitry Moskovsky went to Sarai, where he met with Mamai and managed to convince the de facto ruler of the Golden Horde to leave him Grand Prince Vladimir. Mamai agreed with Dmitry’s arguments, and the Horde men reminded Mikhail of Tver that he had initially refused help from the Horde troops and hoped to take power in Vladimir himself, so now he shouldn’t expect support from the Khan. Labeling Dmitry on the Vladimir Great Reign, Mamai made a serious mistake. The young prince of Moscow (and Dmitriy was only twenty-one years old at that time) was able to become a major figure in the emerging anti-Russia opposition of the Russian princes. Already in 1374, Dmitry Moskovsky seriously dispersed with Mamai, apparently either by ceasing to pay tribute to the Golden Horde, or by reducing its size many times. In response, Mamaia was re-issuing a label on the Vladimir Great Reign to Mikhail Alexandrovich of Tverskoy, but she could no longer correct the situation. Dmitry undertook a campaign in the lands of Tver and made Mikhail Tversky call himself the younger brother of the Moscow prince.

In 1376, Dmitry Moskovsky sent his army, commanded by Dmitry Mikhailovich Bobrok-Volynsky, who had transferred to his service, to Volga Bulgaria. There, Dmitry established Russian customs posts. This was an incredible advance, since Volga Bulgaria was a Turkic territory and was outside the then “Russian world”. The response of Mamaia included periodic raids on Ryazan and some other Russian cities. In the 1378 year, the 5 Tumen (10-thousand units) of the Golden Horde, commanded by Murza Begich, set out to march on the Moscow principality, but on the river Vozha, which is in Ryazan, they were crushed by the princely squad of Dmitry.

In an effort to retain control not only over the military-political life of the Moscow principality, but also over the religious sphere, Dmitry Moskovsky, after the death of Metropolitan Alexy in the same 1378 year, refused to let Metropolitan Cyprian of Kiev, Russia and Lithuania to Moscow. A native of Bulgarian Turnovo, Cyprian was a remarkable man - not only a religious leader, but also a translator of church books and a book writer. He was the only high-ranking church hierarch who completely refused to recognize the power of the Golden Horde. After the death of Alexy, Cyprian expected to arrive in Moscow. However, Dmitry sharply opposed the possible statement of Ciprian by the metropolitan, since he wanted to see his confessor, Priest Mityai, in this post. For this, Mityai even hastily cut monastic vows and became the archimandrite of the Spassky Monastery, Michael. Metropolitan Cyprian, who entered the Moscow principality, was detained, robbed and driven out of the principality in disgrace. After that, Cyprian betrayed Dmitry of Moscow to anathema. Meanwhile, Archimandrite Michael - Mityai had already donned the clothes of the metropolitan and occupied the metropolitan chambers in Moscow. In his person, Dmitri Moskovsky wanted to see a church leader obedient to himself.

The attempt to establish Mitya by the metropolitan was ambiguously met by the highest Orthodox clergy. We will not describe here all the peripetias and dispositions in the Constantinople Patriarchate of that time, but we only note that several candidates for the post of Metropolitan of Kiev and All Russia — and Michael-Mityai, and Cyprian, and Dionysius of Suzdal — were considered. Both the Patriarch of Constantinople himself and the influential Bishop of Suzdal Dionysius were against the approval of Michael-Mitaya. Michael-Mityai also went to Constantinople - and through the Shed, where he received support from Mamaia. However, during his stay in Constantinople, Mikhail-Mityai died. The question of his assertion as a metropolitan dropped by itself. However, the Metropolitan approved the abbot of the Pereslavl monastery Pimen, who was in the retinue of Michael.

By the time of the events being described, Hieromonk Sergius of Radonezh acquired a great influence on Dmitry of Moscow. He was one of the companions of Metropolitan Alexy, and it was Sergius who, according to the popular version, wanted to see Alexy as his successor as Metropolitan of Kiev and All Russia, but Sergius stubbornly refused, being a modest man, striving for simple monastic life. Sergius of Radonezh, like the late Metropolitan Alexy, was a zealous opponent of the Golden Horde and strongly opposed the cooperation of the Moscow principality with the Horde. Over time, he began to influence Dmitry of Moscow, persuading him to finally break off all relations with the Horde Khan and Beklyarbek Mamai.

In 1380, the relationship between Mamai and Dmitry Moscow was finally upset. Despite the fact that Mom was threatened by the horde of his main rival Khan Tokhtamysh, Beklyarbek undertook a campaign in the direction of Moscow, hoping to perform with the Lithuanian Prince Yagailo and the Ryazan Prince Oleg. From Dmitry Moskovsky Mamai demanded to restore the payment of tribute. The prince refused and led his troops towards the horde of Mamai. 8 September 1380 in the area south of the confluence of the Nepryadva River into the Don River, on the Kulikovo Field, was one of the greatest battles in Russian history. Having emerged victorious in the Battle of Kulikovo Field, Dmitry Moskovsky forever went down in history as Dmitry Donskoy. Mamai was defeated and retreated to the Crimea, where he died in the same year.

The defeat of the forces of Mamai symbolized the real military and political strengthening of the Moscow principality, which had long been accomplished. Dmitry Donskoy became the first among other Russian princes who were forced to recognize his seniority. Oleg Ryazansky, following Mikhail Tversky, also recognized himself as the younger brother of the Moscow prince. In 1381, Dmitry Donskoy invited Metropolitan Cyprian to Moscow. The priest, who was considered an implacable opponent of the Golden Horde, in the new situation was already an important political ally of Dmitry Donskoy.

For twenty years, during which Dmitry was in power, he was able to unite a significant part of the Russian lands around the Moscow principality. It was he who began the gradual elimination of the fragmentation of the Russian principalities, uniting them around Moscow. The Grand Duchy of Vladimir, the vast Pereyaslavl, Galich, Belozero, Uglich, Meschersky, Kostroma, Komi-Zyryan lands were under the control of the Moscow principality. In fact, under Dmitry Donskoy, the foundations of the Moscow / Russian statehood began to take shape, taking a more advanced form after his death. In this political model, Orthodoxy became the main ideological and spiritual foundation of the Moscow principality, and the main political idea was collecting the lands of the Russians and opposing the enemies that attempted them - first of all, Lithuania and the Golden Horde. In the will, Dmitry Donskoy first mentioned the great reign, which included Vladimir, Pereyaslavl-Zalessky, Beloozero, Kostroma, Dmitrov, Galich and Uglich. Dmitry Donskoy also demanded that small princes live in Moscow, with the grand duke. This measure was supposed to help eradicate the fragmentation of the Russian lands. Under Dmitry Donskoy, power in the Moscow principality began to be transmitted vertically - from father to son. Who knows what else Dmitry Donskoy could have done in his life, if not for his premature death. Dmitry Donskoy, like his father Ivan II Red, died at a young age - at the age of thirty-nine, in the 1389 year. Interestingly, in everyday life, the overbearing and courageous prince was a very modest, very religious man - his education by Metropolitan Alexy and the influence of St. Sergius of Radonezh affected him. About Dmitry Donskoy, the traditions have been preserved as a very pious man, for whom prayer was no less important than the feat of arms, and the latter, in turn, was illuminated by prayer.



The exaltation of the image of Dmitry Donskoy began in the XVI century. It is known that Ivan the Terrible treated Dmitry Donskoy with great respect and named his first child Dmitry exactly in his honor. Grozny considered himself a continuer of the work of Dmitry Donskoy - both in relation to the gathering of Russian lands, and in the fight against the fragments of the Golden Horde - the Astrakhan, Kazan, Siberian (Tyumen) khanates. But the Russian Orthodox Church ranked Dmitry Donskoy as a saint only in 1988.
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  1. +1
    8 June 2017 06: 34
    Metropolitan Alexei is an enemy of the horde, he led all politics on the use of the horde and generally a weak biased article
    1. +1
      8 June 2017 07: 01
      Quote: Cartalon
      Metropolitan Alexei is an enemy of the horde, he led all politics on the use of the horde

      So make the right conclusion from your conclusions about Metropolitan Alexei! (He knew how to use the power of the enemy for his own purposes!)
      1. 0
        8 June 2017 07: 31
        Can you name at least one example of the hostile actions of Alexei regarding the horde?
        1. +5
          8 June 2017 10: 00
          A rare delusional article. What kind of pedia did the author rewrite? According to the schismatic, Kiprian is definitely Svidomo. How can one write about an era without knowing anything about it? Incidentally, I am inclined to consider any nonsense as anti-Russian propaganda.
          The Great Zamyatnya, Litovschina, Moscow are white-stone - the author does not have all this, he did not notice elephants.
          Quote: Ilya Polonsky
          Therefore, Mamai remained a beclarback, and he placed the puppet khan Abdullah on the throne
          In the period from 1359 to 1380 on the throne of the Golden Horde was replaced 25! khans. Great Memorial.
          Quote: Ilya Polonsky
          In the 60s of the XIV century. Metropolitan Alexy will excommunicate the princes Svyatoslav Smolensky, Mikhail of Tver, and even Bishop of Tver Vasily, who have joined the pagans on the side of the Lithuanian Olgerd.
          Taking advantage of the Great Memorial in the Horde (hence the inability of the central authority of the Horde to expose the army to defend its borders), Olgerd began to conquer the Horde Russian lands, including To Moscow. Those whom Alexy excommunicated came out in the war on the side of the enemy.
          It is good that Algerd sent his conquests first to the south of Lithuania. The battle of Sinyuha (Blue Waters) with three local khans and the annexation of the northern part of the territory of modern Ukraine by the Horde. During this time, preparing for Lithuanian politics in Moscow, they managed to build white stone walls around the Kremlin (before this was not necessary) These walls then saved Russia.
          Quote: Ilya Polonsky
          When in August 1370 the troops of Dmitry of Moscow looted Principality of Tver, Mikhail was forced to flee to Lithuania.
          Again. Lithuanianism. Lithuania went with war to the Horde Rus. In this war, Michael and his Tver Principality are fighting on the side of the enemy - Lithuania. And here in this "article" there’s what kind of presentation - the accursed Muscovite invaders rob white fluffy innocent lambs.
          Quote: Ilya Polonsky
          In 1376, Dmitry Moskovsky sent an army, commanded by Dmitry Mikhailovich Bobrok-Volynsky, who had transferred to his service, to the Volga Bulgaria. ... Volga Bulgaria was Turkic territory and was located outside the then "Russian world"
          In my opinion, this is another spit of the author in the Russian world. Volga Bulgaria was the first territory to declare its state independence from the Horde after the beginning of the Great Memorial (in 1361). Volga Bulgaria even issued its money. And she tried to capture the Nizhny Novgorod lands. It was defeated by the princely army. Then I received even more good answers from ear hookers. But the Horde burned the first Bulgar. The actions of Moscow against the Bulgar, in my opinion, should be seen as support for the legitimate authorities of a single state of the Horde: Urus-Khan, Tokhtamysh (and not the right-bank usurper Mamaia). Then Russia it was profitable.
          The "article" is all that. Everything in it is impossible to fix.
          1. 0
            8 June 2017 11: 40
            In, a new version of the story. What kind of khans in the north of modern Ukraine are we talking about? Names, surnames, appearances, documents.
            1. +2
              8 June 2017 13: 39
              Quotation: blooded man
              In, a new version of the story. What kind of khans in the north of modern Ukraine are we talking about? Names, surnames, appearances, documents.

              Oh how. What I do not know, even if these are major milestones, then this is a new version of the story. No more, no less. The brain of modern education is fancifully distorting the brain. People do not even suspect that they may not know something.
              Gustynsky Chronicle, PSRL, St. Petersburg, RAS, Pushkin House, 2003, v.40, p.130.
              Quote: alatanas
              And what exactly did Cyprian "split"

              http://history-mda.ru/o_kafedre/lichnost_mitropol
              ita__7.html
              1. 0
                8 June 2017 14: 48
                So what does annexation have to do with it? Write correctly, changed power in Podolia. You could even say returned back
          2. 0
            8 June 2017 12: 56
            And what exactly did Cyprian “split” and what did he have in common with the “Ukrainians”, which there weren’t like in history then, they were invented much later.
        2. +1
          8 June 2017 10: 32
          Quote: Cartalon
          Can you name at least one example of the hostile actions of Alexei regarding the horde?

          ... at least the fact that Prince Dmitry Ivanovich was properly brought up!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        9 June 2017 02: 38
        It is in fairy tales that the heroes, until thirty-three years old, "lay on furnace».

        Having become an “almost historical axiom”, an incorrect translation from the Old Slavonic epic about Ilya Muromets. At one time, V.O. Klyuchevsky pointed out this error of gr. Musina-Pushkina cited the correct translation - did not sit for 30 years and 3 years on furnace, and sat 30 years and 3 years on Pest. And correctly interpret not Ilya of Muromets, but Ilya (Ilya) Moravets. Klyuchevskoi also pointed to the reason for this - a pass in vowels in the old Russian originals (the so-called cursive). And then the epic was read in a completely different way. And did not send pr. Vladimir himself, who was sitting in Kiev, of noble youths to Ilya Muromets on the stove (???) with a request to protect the Russian land, and sent them to Pest to the Moravian sovereign Elijah. By the way, to a real historical person living at that time.
        1. BAI
          +2
          9 June 2017 13: 12
          And correctly interpret not Ilya Muromets, but Ilya (Ilya) Moravets

          Well, the SBU just rewrote Wikipedia, which is open and proud. We can also add that it is not Moravec, but Murovlyanin.
          1. 0
            9 June 2017 19: 54
            And in general he was a "great ukr."
  2. +3
    8 June 2017 08: 39
    "When in August 1370 the troops of Dmitry of Moscow sacked the Principality of Tver,
    Michael was forced to flee to Lithuania. In 1371 he went to the Golden Horde
    in order to get a label from the Khan on the great reign in Vladimir "////

    Good guy. Simple such. Looted one Russian neighbor - Tver, then went to the Tatars
    ask permission to plunder another Russian neighbor - Vladimir ...
    1. +4
      8 June 2017 09: 18
      In this regard, I always liked the biography of Ivan Kalita. A third of the reign was spent in the Horde, a third ... on the road. A third of the house is also a gatherer and by the way!
      1. +8
        8 June 2017 09: 23
        Yes, I do not blame them ... Times were harsh: or you have a label,
        or you kirdyk sad .
        The whole political economy of that era: robbed, killed, captured - well done prince!
        1. +5
          8 June 2017 10: 13
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The whole political economy of that era: robbed, killed, captured - well done prince!

          So who wants to convince us of this?
          All historical sources of the time of Christianization (civilization of savages by civilizers) belong to the pen of the clergy. The annals were entirely in the hands of the church. Having reigned on the wreckage of paganism, she began to create her own, new history of the Rus, removing from it or pouring mud on everything that was objectionable to her.
        2. 0
          8 June 2017 11: 44
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Yes, I do not blame them ... Times were harsh: or you have a label,
          or you kirdyk.

          Correctly condemn tales is stupid.
        3. +2
          8 June 2017 21: 05
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Yes, I do not blame them ... Times were harsh: or you have a label,
          or you kirdyk.
          The whole political economy of that era: robbed, killed, captured - well done prince!

          "Everything around, they cut, rob, kill each other ... In general, a normal, civilized life is going on!" (C) D. Puchkov (Goblin) laughing
    2. +2
      8 June 2017 10: 24
      Vladimir, Dmitry did not rob him, and so he was.
    3. +1
      8 June 2017 11: 43
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Good guy. Simple such. Looted one Russian neighbor - Tver, then went to the Tatars
      ask permission to plunder another Russian neighbor - Vladimir ...

      One question . Why would he ask permission from people who are hundreds of kilometers away whom he should rob and who not. And well, I would have sent an ambassador, otherwise he himself went where they could bang him. What nonsense our historians and chroniclers wrote, changing the meaning of the scripts during the census.
      1. +2
        8 June 2017 14: 07
        "And well, I would have sent an ambassador, otherwise he himself went where they could bang him" ////

        It was impossible to send an ambassador - disrespect for the Great Khan, punishment - death.
        I had to come in person with expensive gifts, crawl on my knees to crawl
        to the khan, welcome by all rules. After that, requests and dialogues began.
        All Russian princes had to do this. Voluntarily, forcibly, and not from a good life ... But the bloody raid did not follow, the inhabitants were saved.
        But Dmitry Donskoy, after all the humiliations, still defeated the Tatars. It was a rarity in those days and a great event.
        Most battles with the Tatars ended with the opposite result.
        1. 0
          8 June 2017 15: 07
          Yes, the whole thing is that this is nonsense. No one will go to crawl on his knees and ask for a label for hundreds of kilometers where they could have killed you. For some simple reason, the Horde could not do anything to this prince since there were no garrisons with governors from the horde in Russia. If the khan sends a punitive expedition, any prince, together with his squad, could simply move to the forest, like the peasants, which happened during the internecine wars. Moreover, Dmitry Donskoy so desired after Mamaia and even Ivan the Terrible when attacked by the Tatars)

          Therefore, no prince would ever go to the khan in this situation to ask for an unnecessary label risking his life. He would calmly kill the Vladimir prince, sit out in the woods from the Mongols and continue to rule.
          1. +3
            8 June 2017 15: 12
            Numerous chronicles say that the princes traveled, and even how they traveled.
            But you have some kind of fantasy world of your own - if you feel comfortable in it - to your health fellow
            1. +1
              8 June 2017 15: 17
              Yes, these same chronicles say that the Tatars were hundreds of thousands. It seems to you that in such a world, fantasy is also comfortable on health. fellow
    4. 0
      8 June 2017 21: 05
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Looted one Russian neighbor - Tver, then went to the Tatars
      ask permission to plunder another Russian neighbor - Vladimir ...

      Sir, teach history! fool Vladimir was already near Dmitry, a shortcut is just official confirmation actual status quo!
      1. +1
        8 June 2017 22: 05
        Quote: Weyland
        Sir, teach history! Vladimir was already near Dmitry, the label is just an official confirmation of the actual status quo!

        The label is the right to trade with the Horde, and through it with all of Asia and China .. Which of the princes could get such a right from the Horde, he received a monopoly on trade and became richer than all neighbors and order. And that means he could have a better and bigger squad , build churches, fortresses, equip roads, attract peasants to their land. That is why the Moscow prince, who received the label, quickly became rich and rebuilt the Moscow principality.
  3. 0
    8 June 2017 10: 07
    Normal article.
    In this political model, Orthodoxy became the main ideological and spiritual foundation.

    It remained the basis for the next 500 years and should be so further if we want to save our country by Russia. Everything else - snowstorm and dust.
    1. +2
      8 June 2017 11: 46
      Until Orthodoxy refuses "before the adoption of Orthodoxy, the Slavs lived like animals", it will never be able to save the country and the Russian people.
      1. +2
        8 June 2017 14: 07
        Quotation: blooded man
        Until Orthodoxy refuses "before the adoption of Orthodoxy, the Slavs lived like animals"

        Of course they didn’t live. The Germans, Jews and others lived, but the Slavs descended immediately from the sky in canvas pants and walk-behind tractors began to cultivate the land.
        1. +1
          8 June 2017 15: 09
          Well, that is, before the adoption of Orthodoxy, they climbed trees?))
          1. +1
            8 June 2017 15: 36
            Quotation: blooded man
            Well, that is, before the adoption of Orthodoxy, they climbed trees?

            Why should they climb, they are not monkeys? They lived in chicken huts - with calves and sheep in the same room, heavily burdened with lice and bugs. They worked hard and were widely malnourished.
            So it was before the adoption of Orthodoxy, and in some places after the adoption of owls. authorities.
            Well, even before the adoption of Orthodoxy, there were no monasteries, which were the center of science and education. Therefore, there was a complete darkness, which really dissipated a little after the introduction of Christianity. Russia somehow joined the Byzantine scholarship.
            Well, now tell us about the ancient Slavic-Aryan Vedas and Russian Etruscans? )) Do not transfer electricity in vain.
            1. +1
              8 June 2017 16: 16
              How did they build your house, weapons, fight, transmit information to each other? Well, if only the monasteries brought education)

              Well, that, uh. .. I’m embarrassed to ask, before Christianity, people on the territory of Byzantium had a diploma, maybe they knew some kind of science, or they also lived with calves and lice?))
              1. +1
                8 June 2017 16: 38
                Quotation: blooded man
                How did they build your house, weapons, fight, transmit information to each other?

                Usually everyone lived in a closed community - a tribe. Information was transmitted orally. They gathered ore in a swamp and forged it in a forge. Therefore, we did not study higher mathematics, so the integrals and the difura were not taught. All the main time was occupied by the struggle for survival and the search for food. The amount of calories consumed is minimal, so you cann’t be especially foolish - you’ll become a little too lazy and glue fins from hunger.

                In Byzantium, everything was different a little before the adoption of Christianity.

                I’m embarrassed to ask - are you blissful or are you simply introducing yourself? laughing
                1. +2
                  8 June 2017 19: 25
                  Well, thanks for the enlightenment. Now I will know that monasteries brought mathematics and other things to the Slavs.
                  How to call you dear man, I’ll go and put a candle for you.

                  ps Well, at least in Byzantium, before Christianity, people were able to think, and without monasteries they thought not to keep the calves at home and to withdraw lice.
      2. 0
        8 June 2017 21: 19
        Quotation: blooded man
        Until Orthodoxy refuses "before the adoption of Orthodoxy, the Slavs lived like animals", it will never be able to save the country and the Russian people.

        By "Orthodoxy" do you mean pearls of Gundyaev?
        1. 0
          8 June 2017 22: 12
          Quote: HanTengri
          By "Orthodoxy" do you mean pearls of Gundyaev?

          Well, he is not Gundyaev, but the patriarch as if he himself was not pleasant. Unfortunately, this is not pearl, but the official position of the Russian Orthodox Church since the beginning of the baptism of Russia. It is unfortunate that they don’t want to reconsider this position even in the 21st century.
  4. +6
    8 June 2017 11: 29
    Quote: Herat
    but the ministry of truth doesn’t want to tell us such a story

    Do you need it? You can’t sleep, having learned that the pyramids of Egypt built the Rus and they discovered America, that Quetzalcoatl - Russian and Kon-Tiki - too. All around are our ancestors, but the insidious Caucasians pushed them so good, but simple-minded, wrote them a new story, made them learn, rewrote all the archives, distorted everything and justified ... Can you imagine the whole horror of the situation? Therefore, it’s better for you not to know anything!
    1. 0
      8 June 2017 11: 33
      Quote: kalibr
      .. insidious Caucasians ... wrote them a new story, forced to learn ..

      Are you talking about what is happening in Ukraine now? laughing
      Nothing is new under the moon. All this had once been ...
    2. +2
      8 June 2017 11: 47
      Quote: kalibr
      You can’t sleep, having learned that the pyramids of Egypt built the Rus and they discovered America, that Quetzalcoatl - Russian and Kon-Tiki - too.

      You are a sick person. Although such people are very useful for any authorities.
      1. +2
        8 June 2017 12: 19
        The patient is not the right word, he is a Pole laughing
        1. +1
          8 June 2017 12: 33
          Dear operator !. If you decide to please us with anthroponymy as well, then start with “A Dictionary of Jewish Surnames from the Russian Empire” by Alexander Bader, rather than look for simple ways.
          1. +1
            8 June 2017 13: 07
            Unlike you, I did not suspect the author of "Boards of Planks" in Jewish Surnames, although his obstinacy on the "heavy weapons" of medieval Meri, Erzya and Meshors (the latter professed Judaism before the resettlement to the Don) and the illogical rejection of the Aryan foundation by the Slavic ethnic group raises doubts about its Polish-Slavic origin laughing
            1. +1
              8 June 2017 13: 19
              I don’t suspect the author of “Shields ...”, I urge you to cover all sources in my anthroponymic exercises, and not to glide over the surface.
              1. 0
                8 June 2017 13: 33
                Quote: Curious
                I urge you to cover all sources in your anthroponymic exercises

                Noticed laughing
      2. 0
        10 June 2017 22: 55
        It is sad when a person has no sense of humor at all.
    3. +1
      8 June 2017 12: 38
      Quote: kalibr
      .. Egypt built the pyramids of Egypt and they discovered America that Quetzalcoatl - Russian and Kon-Tiki - too. All around are our ancestors, but the insidious Caucasians pushed them away so good, but simple-hearted, wrote them a new story, forced to learn, rewrote all the archives, all distorted and justified ...

      Yes, sometimes, unfortunately only in the heat of passion, you really get quite sober judgments. Only one correction is required, naturally about terminology: "Europeans"- who is this? The term from the Aramaic language, naturally in connection with this curve, it is not clear what it means. Since this is the territory of the ancient Rus, it can be assumed that this word was called reformatted (with brain filthy) Rus or people who replaced them with Africa’s continent. Here’s a mystery. I’m afraid that you won’t be able to get a direct answer for a long time, but it's a pity.
      1. +1
        8 June 2017 13: 21
        Venya! How do you manage to be supplied with Pervitinum and Ephedrine in such quantity.
      2. 0
        8 June 2017 21: 26
        Quote: venaya
        Only one correction is needed, naturally about terminology: “Europeans” - who is this? The term itself from the Aramaic language, naturally in connection with this curve, is not clear what the signifier is. Since this is the territory of residence of the ancient Rus, it can be assumed that this word called reformatted (with filthy brains) Rus or people who replaced them from the African continent. Here is the riddle. I’m afraid that you won’t be able to get a direct answer for a long time, but it's a pity.

        Paragraph! wassat
  5. +1
    8 June 2017 12: 37
    Dear Ilya, I remember that Dmitry Donskov had an associate Bobrok. It was he who, a year before the Battle of Kulikovo, defeated the Tatar troops. He was next to Dmitry on the Kulikovsky field. Russian troops for this period were well prepared for military operations. Even there is evidence that our ancestors in the Kulikovo field used catapults to destroy the Tatar cavalry. This is true? You are a historian, please write. I had a serial plant subordinate not far from the Kulikovo field and sometimes from Moscow I allowed myself to go there by car. And military envoys (senior management) often traveled with me. This is what I heard from them. I have the honor.
    1. +4
      8 June 2017 13: 15
      Dear Michman! Sorry to get impudently in your comment. But the fact is that such "great" authors as Samsonov, Oleinikov, Polonsky do not read comments on their "imperishable works" and do not indulge in answers, since they need to do the following.
      Regarding vices (as the catapults were called in Russia) - not a single literary source of their use in the Battle of Kulikovo is mentioned. Yes, you yourself, as a technically educated person, compare the rate of defects and the speed of maneuvering cavalry, the difficulties of transportation, etc. This is a purely siege weapon.
      And do not call Polonsky a historian, history will be offended.
  6. +1
    8 June 2017 12: 45
    "In the 1378 year of the 5 thousand Tumens (10-thousandth detachments) of the Golden Horde, commanded by Murza Begic, they marched on the Principality of Moscow, but on the river Vozh, in the Ryazanshchyna, they were defeated by the princely squad of Dmitry."

    Great result.

    The reign of Dmitry Vladimirsky / Moscow with the support of the church was, among other things, a fundamentally new stage of state building in Russia - the adoption in practice of the principle of hereditary occupation of the throne by the eldest son of the Grand Duke, and not his younger brother, as was assumed under the logistic law. This principle made it possible to build a centralized state, and not a union of specific principalities, which led to a continuous feudal feud between princes relatives for seniority.

    Absolutely correctly, Dmitry extinguished the resistance of neighboring princes, who opposed the formation of a single state, which could only defend the Russians as a nation from the desires of the Lithuanians, Tatars and other neighbors to crush our ethnic group for themselves.

    Dmitry, along with Alexy, not only defended the national interests of the autochthonous people of the Central Russian Plain, but also began the process of erasing alien Ugro Finns and Turks, dusting them by now into Lilliputians of the type of Lithuania or by evicting them back to Asia like Mongolia.

    It is necessary to emphasize the contribution of the Russian Orthodox Church in the formation of the Russian state as an advanced detachment of Christians in the struggle against Islam and Judaism, which flourished in the Golden Horde on the basis of the slave trade.
    1. +2
      9 June 2017 20: 08
      By that time, Tumen didn’t always count 10 thousand. Begich couldn’t have 50 thousand. Otherwise, he would have gone through the whole princedom of Vladimir.
      The author here is clearly captured by some sources, which exaggerated the number of those fighting.
      Edigheus at Vorskla collecting almost all the Horde warriors had about 70 thousand .. It was just a giant army for that time.
      The number of those fighting on the Kulikovo field is also greatly exaggerated.
      Bearing in mind the mobilization capabilities of the Vladimir Principality, and the time for the training camp, it is unlikely that Demetrius managed to collect more than 25-30 thousand.
      But they were well-armed, trained and in fine armor warriors, and not some ragged men in hides and clubs, as in the famous painting by Bubnov.
      The outcome of the battle was decided by the equestrian, ambush regiment, which consisted of knights of the “forged rati”, the best fighters of medieval Europe. Children of the boyars who studied military affairs from infancy.
  7. +4
    8 June 2017 12: 49
    I think Dmitry Donskoy. if he could, for such an article about himself the author would have chopped off his head.
  8. +2
    8 June 2017 12: 50
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "When in August 1370 the troops of Dmitry of Moscow sacked the Principality of Tver,
    Michael was forced to flee to Lithuania. In 1371 he went to the Golden Horde
    in order to get a label from the Khan on the great reign in Vladimir "////
    Good guy. Simple such. Looted one Russian neighbor - Tver, then went to the Tatars
    ask permission to plunder another Russian neighbor - Vladimir ...

    ... how this nonsense is already tired ... Tatar-Khazarin, hozak = Cossack - equestrian warrior .. Tatars - equestrian squad, equestrian army .. This is not a nation or nationality .. In 1920, Mr. Ulyanov = Lenin = Blank - by a resolution of the CEC * christened * the Volga Bulgars in the Tatars .. The Tatar nationality appeared only in 1920 .. Dmitry Donskoy = Khan Tokhtamysh- inherited the title from his great-great-grandfather Khan Eney John Rurik Varyag Troyants .. Khan Mamai-uncle Dmitry Donskoy and the same Khan .. This is a quarrel between relatives for the right to the Army = Golden Horde .., and the right to the supreme khanate ... Putin on this occasion noted - there was no clear law of succession, which led to the internecine war of the heirs ...
    1. +1
      8 June 2017 13: 04
      You would have to write novels with such a fantasy, but you would make people laugh, ruin your talent.
      1. +1
        9 June 2017 20: 09
        Alas, Fomenkovism and its lovers are indestructible, like lovers of Harry Potter. This is from one deck.
        1. +3
          9 June 2017 21: 15
          Quote: Ulan
          Alas, Fomenkovism and its lovers are indestructible, like lovers of Harry Potter. This is from one deck.


          for the future of NH.
          1. 0
            14 June 2017 08: 55
            Does this future live in sick fantasies? Live yourselves in such a future.
    2. +3
      8 June 2017 13: 57
      "Tatar nationality appeared only in 1920 .." ////

      Apparently, you didn’t read Russian classics? It's a pity..
      The outstanding Russian classic of the 19th century Leskov, for example,
      in the famous story "The Enchanted Wanderer" the nationality of the "Tatars" is mentioned
      constantly. Tatars, Tatars. And he calls the Jew - "the Jews." Lithuanians were called "Litvin".
      Everything is as it is. What names were in his time, he calls them.
      1. +1
        8 June 2017 15: 10
        Quote: voyaka uh
        in the famous story "The Enchanted Wanderer" the nationality of the "Tatars" is mentioned
        constantly. Tatars


        Moreover, he calls the Tatars all in a row, including Kazakhs (an episode with the slavery of a peasant by nomads).
        1. +1
          8 June 2017 15: 15
          Quite possible. Leskov is a great realist. He didn’t politicize
          his tales and stories and did not spare anyone. Neither Russian nor the rest.
      2. 0
        8 June 2017 21: 14
        Quote: voyaka uh
        in the famous story "The Enchanted Wanderer" the nationality of the "Tatars" is constantly mentioned.

        Despite the fact that it was real Kazakhs! laughing Ryn-sands - this is Kazakhstan, in those days - the so-called Bukeevskaya Horde ruled by the khan Dzhangir mentioned in the story
      3. +1
        9 June 2017 21: 16
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Lithuanians were called "Litvin".


        were called guards ...
    3. +3
      8 June 2017 21: 35
      Quote: ver_
      ... how this nonsense is already tired ... Tatar-Khazarin, hozak = Cossack - equestrian warrior .. Tatars - equestrian squad, equestrian army .. This is not a nation or nationality .. In 1920, Mr. Ulyanov = Lenin = Blank - by a resolution of the CEC * christened * the Volga Bulgars in the Tatars .. The Tatar nationality appeared only in 1920 .. Dmitry Donskoy = Khan Tokhtamysh- inherited the title from his great-great-grandfather Khan Eney John Rurik Varyag Troyants .. Khan Mamai-uncle Dmitry Donskoy and the same Khan .. This is a quarrel between relatives for the right to the Army = Golden Horde .., and the right to the supreme khanate ... Putin on this occasion noted - there was no clear law of succession, which led to the internecine war of the heirs ...

      Do not read, before dinner (Soviet newspapers) the works of Fomenko and his accomplice Nosovsky! (c) (almost) Mental health must be protected! laughing
      1. +1
        8 June 2017 22: 19
        Quote: HanTengri
        Do not read, before dinner (Soviet newspapers) the works of Fomenko and his accomplice Nosovsky! (c) (almost) Mental health must be protected!

        That normal fantasy, written well and entertainingly)
        1. 0
          9 June 2017 20: 10
          I also think so, no worse than The Lord of the Rings Tolkien.
  9. +1
    8 June 2017 13: 19
    Dmitry Donskoy is a man whose merits and talents are greatly exaggerated, the sharp strengthening of Moscow at the expense of other principalities and the capture of the Vladimir table was achieved in the early childhood of Dmitry.
    The Horde policy ended in the failure and ruin of Moscow, the Ryazan war is lost.
    And in general, Dmitry does not look like an independent figure, he was led by his boyars.
  10. 0
    8 June 2017 14: 47
    My friend was Dima Donskoy.
  11. +3
    8 June 2017 15: 10
    Dmitry Mikhailovich Bobrok-Volynsky was both a decisive, brave commander, and a faithful servant of Prince Dmitry Donskoy. Russian annals characterize it on an exclusively positive side. Having entered the service of the princes of Moscow, Dmitry Mikhailovich was able to realize his leadership gift, thereby strengthening Moscow’s authority in confronting the Golden Horde and gathering Russian lands into a single state. After the Battle of Kulikovo, there is very little biographical information about Dmitry Mikhailovich. In the sources he is mentioned only once: between April 13 and May 16, 1389, as the first boyar, he signed up for the spiritual Dmitry Donskoy. After that, information about him disappears. It is believed that Dmitry Mikhailovich died in 1399 in the notorious battle of the Lithuanian-Russian troops under the leadership of the Grand Duke of Lithuania Vitovt Keistutievich with the Tatars on the Vorskla River.
  12. +1
    8 June 2017 21: 17
    Ivan the Terrible treated Dmitry Donskoy with great reverence and it was in his honor that he named his firstborn Dmitry. - despite the fact that Ivan the Terrible (Donskoy’s great-great-grandson on the paternal side) was a descendant on the maternal side ... Mom! laughing
  13. 0
    9 June 2017 03: 14
    Quote: Curious
    I think Dmitry Donskoy. if he could, for such an article about himself the author would have chopped off his head.

    ..No-simply and gracefully would put the scribbler on a count Chi Schaub others disgracefully bulo ..
  14. +1
    9 June 2017 03: 25
    Quote: midshipman
    Dear Ilya, I remember that Dmitry Donskov had an associate Bobrok. It was he who, a year before the Battle of Kulikovo, defeated the Tatar troops. He was next to Dmitry on the Kulikovsky field. Russian troops for this period were well prepared for military operations. Even there is evidence that our ancestors in the Kulikovo field used catapults to destroy the Tatar cavalry. This is true? You are a historian, please write. I had a serial plant subordinate not far from the Kulikovo field and sometimes from Moscow I allowed myself to go there by car. And military envoys (senior management) often traveled with me. This is what I heard from them. I have the honor.

    ..and the Tatar army is how? Tatar army = equestrian army .. Whose army was this? .. Who commanded this army? ..
  15. +1
    10 June 2017 02: 32
    Quote: Cartalon
    You would have to write novels with such a fantasy, but you would make people laugh, ruin your talent.

    ... a person needs a head not only in order to wear a hat .., and to believe all sorts of nonsense - analyze * old man * Old .., analyze and do not believe all kinds of crooks and charlatans .. History - not mathematics - the paper will bear it ..
  16. +1
    10 June 2017 10: 10
    Quote: Ulan
    Alas, Fomenkovism and its lovers are indestructible, like lovers of Harry Potter. This is from one deck.

    .. when the Russophobes have nothing to answer - they fall into childhood .. - some tears, snot and nationalism .., but in fact - nothing ...
  17. +1
    10 June 2017 18: 00
    Quote: Ulan
    By that time, Tumen didn’t always count 10 thousand. Begich couldn’t have 50 thousand. Otherwise, he would have gone through the whole princedom of Vladimir.
    The author here is clearly captured by some sources, which exaggerated the number of those fighting.
    Edigheus at Vorskla collecting almost all the Horde warriors had about 70 thousand .. It was just a giant army for that time.
    The number of those fighting on the Kulikovo field is also greatly exaggerated.
    Bearing in mind the mobilization capabilities of the Vladimir Principality, and the time for the training camp, it is unlikely that Demetrius managed to collect more than 25-30 thousand.
    But they were well-armed, trained and in fine armor warriors, and not some ragged men in hides and clubs, as in the famous painting by Bubnov.
    The outcome of the battle was decided by the equestrian, ambush regiment, which consisted of knights of the "forged rati", the best fighters of medieval Europe. Boyar children who had studied military affairs since childhood.

    ... that’s still brooms .. We were told at a school in history at the time that the Mongols — who were not there until 1920 from the word — in general — invaded Russia with an army — the number of which was -700000 (seven hundred thousand people) .. And this bullshit was approved by Academics ..- legs would have to pull them out of the ass ...
  18. 0
    10 June 2017 20: 34
    Quote: midshipman
    Even there is evidence that our ancestors in the Kulikovo field used catapults to destroy the Tatar cavalry.

    I wonder where?
  19. 0
    10 June 2017 20: 43
    Quote: Operator
    illogical rejection of the Aryan foundation of the Slavic ethnic group

    And what is its basis in my materials published on VO? Berbertian-Libyan? You are a dreamer, dear ...
  20. 0
    11 June 2017 03: 58
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "Tatar nationality appeared only in 1920 .." ////
    Apparently, you didn’t read Russian classics? It's a pity..
    The outstanding Russian classic of the 19th century Leskov, for example,
    in the famous story "The Enchanted Wanderer" the nationality of the "Tatars" is mentioned
    constantly. Tatars, Tatars. And he calls the Jew - "the Jews." Lithuanians were called "Litvin".
    Everything is as it is. What names were in his time, he calls them.

    ..for .. - especially gifted - any equestrian * by the simplicity of his soul * was called a Tatar - go and determine from afar - he is armed, but not .. Do the writers penetrate very * the little things * like that - he has a sword, or a bow ...