Effective disgrace and space issues

177
Effective disgrace and space issues


We have written more than once that our space industry, led by "effective managers," continues its rapid descent from orbit. And here is a new confirmation of this.



New - well forgotten old?

Production Association "Southern Machine-Building Plant. Makarova ”signed a contract with S7 Sea Launch Limited for the production and supply of Zenith launch vehicles.

The press service of the company reported that the contract was signed 28 April 2017.

According to the contract, it is planned to manufacture 12 launch vehicles for use in the Sea Launch and Land Launch programs for the exploration and use of space for peaceful purposes as part of international space projects. Now in production is 2 missiles modifications Zenit-3SL and Zenit-3SLB.

The Ukrainian company expressed its gratitude to many foreign companies, but did not hide the fact that the counterparty is the Russians. It is clear that in this connection social networks are raging, and Ukrainian nationalists threaten to block the supply of missiles.

S7 Sea Launch Limited is indeed a Russian company that was established in the autumn of 2016, when the S7 group signed a contract with Sea Launch to purchase the Sea Launch rocket and space complex. The subject of the transaction was the ship "Sea Launch Commander", the platform "Odyssey" and ground equipment in the American port of Long Beach.



The Sea Launch project has been operational since 1995. Its founders were the Boeing Corporation, the Russian RSC Energia, the Ukrainian Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash design bureaus, and the Norwegian enterprise Kvaerner. Several commercial Russian-Ukrainian Zenit launch vehicles from a floating platform were carried out, but Sea Launch went bankrupt in 2009, with RSC Energia playing a leading role after the reorganization.

The question arises: why, exactly?

What is it: the next pulling of a lifebuoy to Ukraine, or something more?

Zenit, a Soviet and later Ukrainian rocket, was quite successful for its time and did not lose its effectiveness in the 21 century.

By and large, it was the cheapest rocket for launches into the geostationary orbit, although it was losing in power and reliability to the Proton. Zenit was launched in the interval from 1985 to 2015 years 83 times, and only 9 starts were unsuccessful. The launches were made both from Baikonur and from the floating cosmodrome SeaLaunch.

The “heart” of the Zenith was the Russian RD-170 engine. Naturally, in the light of recent events at Zenit, it was possible to put a cross, final and irrevocable. However, we see a completely reverse alignment.

Again the question: what about Angara, Proton, Soyuz?

And here is complete sadness.

"Proton". In fact, the year since June 9 of the 2016 of the year, Proton-M does not fly for all known reasons, on which it seems to be working, that's just not clear who and where.

Employees both left the enterprises and continue to do so. Already not in the mass order, the mass departure was last year. This applies primarily to all enterprises of the Khrunichev Center, in Moscow, Voronezh, and Omsk.

The program of financial rehabilitation, developed and implemented by the command “effective managers” of A. V. Kalinovsky, who headed the enterprise in the summer of 2014, successfully finishes the personnel system of CiH.

Fully restructured production in Moscow and Omsk. The main goal of this restructuring is to reduce the areas occupied by the enterprise, with their subsequent sale for development, both in Moscow and in Omsk. All this under the slogan of "lean production." In Voronezh, the area is not reduced, but there is simply nothing to cut.

The year when there were no launches of “Protons” led to a completely natural result: the number of orders for launching satellites was sharply reduced.

And that's fine. Customers need satellites in orbits, not tales of tomorrow. This is a serious industry after all.

The situation with the Proton is simply deplorable: its old production is collapsed, some of the parts and blanks are now being made in the branches thousands of kilometers from Moscow. Quite often, branches cannot process the product completely on their equipment, and for some operations it has to be transported from Omsk or Ust-Katav to Moscow, and then back. This leads to waste of time and money on transportation. Part of the workers from the factory in Moscow was reduced, part - transferred to idle for 2 / 3 salary.

These activities are “effective” proudly referred to as “changing the configuration of production and reducing overhead costs.”

In KB Salyut, which is engaged in design support for existing projects and the development of new ones, the situation is no better than at the factory.

First, as a result of the “development of a motivational model,” a new wage system was introduced. They canceled part of the allowances - for academic degrees and knowledge of a foreign language and tied the award to the volume of work performed. When planning, he was taken into account in standard hours, and in terms of work, he had long since broken off from the actual time costs, both upwards and downwards.

But the standards for labor-intensiveness were not revised, because part of the divisions turned out to be in chocolate, and partly - on a starvation ration with a bare salary.

Of course, this led to the departure of some of the specialists of their own accord, and not retirees at all. It also sharply aggravated relations between divisions - no one wants to work for free. In Voronezh, at KBKhA, there were refusals of workers to go overtime without payment.

But, despite the lack of knowledge and experience in the development of rocket and space technology, A. V. Kalinovsky and his team do not forget to generate new ideas in the field of rocket production.

This is about the Proton Light project presented last year. Having optimized "Angara" and practically having stopped production of the usual "Proton", the "effective" decided to disfigure it, giving rise to new versions, as if the rocket is a children's designer, and not a complicated technical system.



It’s very difficult to say why this was needed for Kalinowski’s company. Apparently, I really wanted to play "cool specialists". It took a year for the mind to prevail and everyone understood that “Light” is nonsense.

"Proton" and so in theory, fly only until 2025-th year. Then everything, finish. But today's owners of the territory where the Baikonur space center is located are by no means eager to even pay for Proton, which is poisoning everything.

But on the Proton-Light, new contracts are already being signed, although the rocket itself is not yet available.

But there is a complete collapse and collapse of the “effective managers” of Kalinovsky Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center. Reorganization of production and development of new projects is carried out at the expense of borrowed funds. The amount of credits and loans hanging at the enterprise, during the work of A. V. Kalinovsky, managed to double and increased from 28 billion rubles to 52 billion rubles. And as collateral for the loan goes the territory of the Moscow site of the enterprise. There are also debts to suppliers, and they are comparable in magnitude with the debt to banks.

According to the balance sheet for the 2016 year, the amount of claims to the company is already 9,5 billion rubles.

Good start, in the "proton" style. Effective.

"Angara".

Huge sums were invested in the development of the Angara and in the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome. In recent years, the media have repeatedly talked about these projects. First, in loud promises, then in victorious reports.

And then, as usual, in principle, scandals and investigations began.

A lot of things were thrown out into the light, but the fact that the noise and shouts were much more than real achievements saddened the most.

One Angara carried out an orbital launch two and a half years ago, one Soyuz flew from the Eastern one a year ago.



And that is all. I hope so far.

There were rumors, however, so far only rumors that the Angara would not be trusted with the new manned Federation ship that was preparing to fly it to the Moon.

In general, it is clear that the rocket must fly, and the spaceport to launch. If both do not happen, then the matter is amiss. And both components are smoothly moving into the category of "expensive toys" and "money for the wind."

The question of what state billions have spent is repeated many times in the media, in blogs, and in comments. There are many questions, but there are no answers.

Let's look at the Angara line.



At first it was prepared on the Zenith launching table, which was already at Baikonur and in Plesetsk. Then they began to design their own. Wings were attached to side accelerators to give reusability.

The concept of universal rocket modules - a promising topic of reducing the cost of production, was subsequently implemented by a young American startup SpaceX.

In general, story “Hangars” is an example of what can happen if you give developers an unlimited budget, unlimited terms and say: “Create!” And they created a rocket with universal modules to save, but with three different launch tables for each А3, А5, А7, which raises the value of the whole complex to the skies.

The only thing that accompanied the "Angara" throughout its life course - is its uselessness.

As a rocket, "Angara" is not needed. And always was not needed. “Angara” was always used for any other purposes besides launching spacecraft. For normal rocket work, existing missiles continued to be exploited: the A1 capabilities are Dnepr, Rokot, Soyuz-U, A3 are Soyuz-2 and Zenit, A5 - Proton, A7 - such loads not.

There are no commercial prospects either - the rocket is twice as expensive as the Proton.

The first orbital heavy launch of the Angara was unique in the history of Russian cosmonautics - it was allowed two days earlier than the appointed time. After long transfers, but two days earlier than the announced date. Accurate on the day when President Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan visited Russia on a state visit.

So the first (and at the moment, the last) start of the Angara was not a cosmic, but a political one.

Kazakhstan (and the entire cosmic world) was given to understand that there is no pressure on the “Proton”, there is where to set up “your own bar” with all the components.

The essence of "Baikonur": starting tables "Proton" and manned tables "Union." But while the United States depends on the "Union" on this rocket, Kazakhstan will never dare to encroach, but the "Proton" is still a poison, and not in the direct sense. Although in direct too.

"Proton" pulled from one third to one half of the entire commercial cosmonautics of the world, and each launch brought to the cash desk of Russia for money a little less than Kazakhstan receives for renting a space center per year.

It was from what “start”.

Now "Angara" is actually only one launch pad. In Plesetsk. Created by the Ministry of Defense in order to ensure Russia's access to space from its territory. But Plesetsk is the worst cosmodrome for launching into a geostationary orbit — too much fuel is spent on changing the orbit inclination.

At Vostochny, the construction of two launch pads for the Angara A5 was planned - one “cargo”, the second one - manned. In this configuration and with refinement to the Angara A5B, it was possible by two launches to deliver the Russians in the Federation to the circumlunar orbit. For this potential opportunity Roscosmos steadfastly held in moments of the toughest sequestration of the space budget. For the media, the formula about “ensuring the possibility of reaching the moon before 2030 of the year” was repeated.

I wanted to believe. Even despite the chaos with defective engines, debris in the fuel lines, inappropriate solder, we wanted to. It would be great to see our flight to the moon ...

But there is no money for two tables under the “Angar”, which means there is no flight to the Moon, and there are no manned launches.

Point. While the "Angara" will not fly anywhere.

And now the information on the "Zenith". But there is no evil without good.

The revival of SeaLaunch under the auspices of S7 prompted Roscosmos to work out a Russian rocket on the RD-170. They took as a basis the RSC Energia groundwork for the Rus rocket.

So there was a project "Phoenix". Kazakhstan has given money for this work, and a variant called “Sunkar” (Falcon) is being worked out for it. This rocket can be launched from the Zenit launch tables, saving significant funds.

Most recently, the head of "Energy" spoke about the possibility of putting the Federation spacecraft on the Phoenix, and today this is the only possible option.

But Phoenix is ​​weaker than Angara, so for now no Moon shines on our cosmonauts.

In the future, the Phoenix-5 can be assembled out of five rockets and this will already be a lunar super-heavy rocket. The modular concept of the Angara is repeated, with the difference that each module is an independent rocket. Differences from the "Angara" is.

Approximately also the Americans developed their “Falcon-9”. Is it easy to assemble three or five of one rocket by the example of the triple “Falcon Heavy” - the launch was promised in the 2014 year, 2017 is in the yard and they promise by the fall. Here the same rake, in general.

It turns out on the one hand complete nonsense: when ready in theory, "Angara" to start building a new rocket. And where is the guarantee that the Phoenix will take off?

Certainly, no one can give guarantees, but there are several nuances.

If "Phoenix" turns out with the price of "Zenith", then it will be three times cheaper than "Angara A5". The launch options are comparable if you start from the equator at SeaLaunch. Too many ifs, but alas, that is.

"Phoenix" is not developed GKNPTs them. Khrunichev, breathing incense, and RSC Energia, which has established itself as a quality manufacturer of Soyuz spacecraft and other technology. "Energy" is much less likely to get into reports of corruption scandals. It seems to be encouraging.

Since the Phoenix is ​​sharpened for Zenith launch tables, there are no problems with them. Baikonur or "SeaLaunch" near the equator.

At Phoenix there are private customers, that is, investors. So - money. The same S7 is ready to buy and let.

So the Phoenix is ​​quite capable of replacing the Proton, if held and will be cheaper than the Proton.

But when it will be - again a question.

We get at the output: minus "Proton", minus "Angara" ... plus "Zenith".

But “Zenit” is in the black only if there are still personnel in Ukraine who can make a rocket. And this is also a question.

Sources:
https://donpress.com/news/04-06-2017-ukrainskiy-yuzhmash-podpisal-kontrakt-na-postavku-12-raket-zenit
http://militariorg.ucoz.ru/publ/ukraina_krym_rossija/zachem_rossija_sobiraetsja_spasti_raketnuju_otrasl_ukrainy/17-1-0-73238
http://zelenyikot.com/vostochnaya-angara/
http://badcube.livejournal.com/102339.html
177 comments
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  1. +10
    6 June 2017 05: 49
    Looks like I will not be an astronaut. No.
    1. +4
      6 June 2017 06: 27
      I also tie with Mars and I will look at the Moon from the Earth.
      1. +24
        6 June 2017 08: 21
        It may be enough to dump the same articles with a weekly frequency, they changed the title and in a new way. Everyone already understood that everything was bad.
        1. +9
          6 June 2017 10: 38
          Quote: maxim947
          It may be enough to dump the same articles with a weekly frequency, they changed the title and in a new way. Everyone already understood that everything was bad.

          Already very much got these griefs of “Obama” with lamentations about the torn economy to shreds and the rise of Russia to its knees. Clowns!
          1. +11
            6 June 2017 14: 44
            It may be enough to dump the same articles with weekly frequency, changed the title and in a new way

            This article is for extracurricular reading and independent study. laughing
            1. 0
              5 October 2017 14: 20
              It's time to revive sharashki in Russia! So that they couldn’t get out until they fly! And control of every penny!
        2. +6
          6 June 2017 12: 05
          Quote: maxim947
          Everyone already understood that everything was bad.
          Not all bad. Bad, this is when incompetent, but "effective", command. There is still a chance to save the Russian space.
        3. +4
          6 June 2017 17: 15
          This is for those who do not catch up with the first and second time!
      2. +7
        6 June 2017 09: 19
        To paraphrase the classics - managers, managers, managers, millions of managers alone. Sadness, however.
        1. +5
          6 June 2017 13: 45
          What is there in the plans ... Darkest !? laughing
          In the Patriotic War for crossing the Dnieper Hero was given !!
          "What is the coming day preparing for me?
          My gaze catches in vain
          He lurks in the deep darkness.
          No need; rights of fate are the law.
          Will I fall, pierced by an arrow,
          Or she will fly by
          All good: vigil and sleep
          A certain hour comes;
          Blessed is the day of cares
          Blessed is the darkness of the coming! "
          A With Pushnin
    2. +10
      6 June 2017 08: 01
      To live and believe is wonderful.
      Unprecedented paths before us
      Astronauts and dreamers say,
      That Mars will bloom apple trees.
      More optimism!
      1. +15
        6 June 2017 10: 41
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        More optimism!

        more temples! fellow
      2. +20
        6 June 2017 11: 36
        Dear Uncle Lee. Tell this person about optimism. What melancholy sounds in his monologue. (Once I already laid it out, but it costs to be read once more). "... I can’t scream anymore ..." The voice of one crying in the desert "begins to go into a dull resonance with a groan, more and more rocking the" interstellar "emptiness, the airless space between the commanding elite and us - the performers of the" impossible "... What will happen to my as a collective, with these Mohicans, in the full sense of the last, highly skilled multi-craftsmen who have grown together with their profession quantum ties. Which resisted any experiments periodically made with us: Coitus, disconnections, purchases / sales, reorganizations / optimizations, a beloved enterprise, repeatedly standing in any conditions, under different modes, keeping on its feet. Even when fingers were chopped on them, he resisted without losing the honest name of the signalman ... In those years of hard times, many had to leave, in search of a better life, no less skilled and reliable, but faced with a choice: Favorite business or bread? ... I do not judge them. Now the question is how to be the most, the most collective that, in spite of everything, has remained in order to taste the “last share” of the total reduction. They cut us, cut them off with a bucket of a multi-ton bulldozer, together with the “engineering layer”, so that there is not even a smell of spilled “oil” on the mechanisms, which from time to time have grown into one whole, trouble-free electronic cross-field. Why are these conspirators preparing the site? No one knows ... Taldychats are talking about some kind of crisis, according to some kind of evil irony and some kind of only one known law of "optimization" that does not affect the numerous, useless clerks at the top ... This young and early contingent, deciding the fate of wise experience. Why are experts, experienced, specialized, deeply thinking and broad, being "killed" throughout the country? Why, for the sake of the current desire for profit, the notorious profitability and "profitability", they sacrifice - reliability, stability and dependability, for the sake of cranes in the sky, some illiterate "new bosses", it is not clear from which stall they jumped into the high-tech workshop, they begin to break out in it everything brilliant to sell? I do not know who to contact? Will we be heard plain-looking, but reliable and already slightly powdered gray hair ... Do we need you, country? I scream, but I know that You, my Motherland, suffer with me ... So everywhere ... How to reach the raccooner, the one who goes hurrying to meet us? We still don’t hear his voice, but his ax breaking through the wind is heard in each of our offended hearts, deaf and ever-approaching echoes ... Will you be able to reach us before sunset? Let us know what needs to be done so that it may be at the cost of our own well-being, but stop this soulless destructive machine. We still have a reliable and reliable network, the site of which we protect, as we can ... Talk to us, the signalmen standing under the hanging sword, calm and admonish, or say goodbye to us, who served you honestly, Motherland ... We wait, hope and believe , we are Russian, which means patient and reliable ... If you can still - save us the country! We do not like to remain in debt ... We will work out and teach those who come after us to work.
        1. +7
          6 June 2017 11: 51
          I went through it ...... hi
        2. +3
          6 June 2017 14: 01
          I scream, but I know that You, my Motherland, suffer with me ... So everywhere ... How to reach out to the finisher, the one who goes hurrying to meet us? We still don’t hear his voice, but his ax breaking through the wind is heard in each of our offended hearts, deaf and ever-approaching echoes ... Will you be able to reach us before sunset? Let us know what needs to be done so that it may be at the cost of our own well-being, but stop this soulless destructive machine.

          Well said.
      3. +8
        6 June 2017 11: 46
        An optimist is a poorly informed pessimist
    3. +3
      6 June 2017 11: 49
      maybe it is for the better? how would you be on earth without you? )))
  2. +37
    6 June 2017 05: 56
    It’s sad to say, but it’s good that neither Korolev nor Gagarin survived to this disgrace.
  3. +15
    6 June 2017 06: 31
    Yes, it's time to recognize that the Russian space program is over. Why bother in space? A country that has not established order on earth does not have a right to space.
    1. +24
      6 June 2017 06: 40
      Quote: Basarev
      Why bother in space? A country that has not established order on earth does not have a right to space.

      Humanity escaped into space only thanks to the USSR. It is disadvantageous for the capitalists.
      1. +7
        6 June 2017 06: 45
        It would be better for the USSR to deal with the standard of living, ethnic justice and the noble privileges of the party. And not a whim like space. In fact, they turned the teachings of Marx and put an ideological superstructure in front of the basis.
        1. +30
          6 June 2017 06: 57
          Quote: Basarev
          It would be better for the USSR to deal with the standard of living, ethnic justice and the noble privileges of the party.

          Consumerism?
          Quote: Basarev
          And not a whim like space.

          Strange to hear. It was not a whim, but a forced military necessity. Side effect of the defense.
          Quote: Basarev
          ideological superstructure ahead of the base.

          Man doesn’t live alone.
        2. +4
          6 June 2017 10: 38
          What are you talking about? The near opinion. Liberal consumer
      2. +22
        6 June 2017 07: 14
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Humanity escaped into space only thanks to the USSR. It is disadvantageous for the capitalists.

        Yah? It is not profitable and therefore the private trader flies into space at the expense of himself? Here is yesterday's dock.


        And by the way, humanity escaped into space only thanks to Nazi Germany. As it is not regrettable. request
        1. +25
          6 June 2017 07: 31
          Quote: professor
          only thanks Nazi Germany

          Prof - went through yesterday or what? Thanks, but not ONLY! fool Tsiolkovsky to Werner Von Braun was not there?
          1. +6
            6 June 2017 07: 41
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Quote: professor
            only thanks Nazi Germany

            Prof - went through yesterday or what? Thanks, but not ONLY! fool Tsiolkovsky to Werner Von Braun was not there?

            That's just about Tsiolkovsky with his theories of the superman is not necessary. Okay? Not that we get that Tsiolkovsky was the teacher of Von Braun. And the fact that the rocket which launched the satellite into orbit was essentially German is not a secret for anyone, just as it is not a secret what the baron did in the USA.
            1. +20
              6 June 2017 08: 00
              Without belittling the genius of Von Brain, he nevertheless relied on Tsiolkovsky’s theory. Our argument is essentially a debate about what came before, a chicken or an egg.
              Again -
              Thanks, but not ONLY!
              hi
              PS
              Quote: professor
              That's just about Tsiolkovsky with his theories of the superman is not necessary
              About the "superman" only Jews can talk? (Shulkhan Arukh) Tsiolkovsky violated the monopoly of Judaism? laughing
              1. +3
                6 June 2017 10: 03
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Without belittling the genius of Von Brain, he nevertheless relied on Tsiolkovsky’s theory. Our argument is essentially a debate about what came before, a chicken or an egg.

                What theory?

                Quote: Ingvar 72
                About the "superman" only Jews can talk? (Shulkhan Arukh) Tsiolkovsky violated the monopoly of Judaism?

                Let’s not confuse fakes like “Shulchan Aruch” with officially published works of the koluzh.

                Quote: avt
                Of course I understand - you still need to be in the trend and kick the Soviet one.

                This is the materiel. You can’t argue with the history of astronautics.

                Quote: avt
                So let it be, if only not for the USSR. Let von Braun, but not Soviet, but under the leadership of Beria. And for this, all the means are good, you can drive the blizzard that 7 didn’t do the King, but von Braun in the USA. Yes, still it’s a bundle of A-4 bundles connected with twine. People picks.

                The Seven was not created by Von Braun, but by Soviet designers, but it was based on the developments of the baron exported from Germany. In addition to drawings, equipment, materials and samples, German specialists were also taken out. These are the facts. Therefore, the comrade asserting that "Humanity escaped into space only thanks to the USSR" is not right.
                1. +19
                  6 June 2017 12: 19
                  And the Germans came up with “AK”, and Kalashnikov shamelessly stole their development. laughing
                  Undoubtedly there were borrowings, as with all and always, but do not need to bring to the point of absurdity.
                  1. +9
                    6 June 2017 20: 41
                    The question begs itself. Why did Korolev launch a “German” rocket, earlier than its inventor von Braun, while Korolev was limited in resources, and the “Fritz” did not break it off?
                2. +13
                  6 June 2017 13: 04
                  Yes, the Americans had Werner von Braun himself, a powerful economic (unhurt) base, skilled labor, smart engineers, money ... a lot of things that the USSR did not have, and later the USSR went into space at a lower level. The USSR had its own backlog in space, German developments, they just supplemented them. And the benefit for private space launches appeared relatively recently, no more than 15 years.
            2. avt
              +19
              6 June 2017 08: 27
              Quote: professor
              And the fact that the rocket which launched the satellite into orbit was essentially German is not a secret for anyone, just as it is not a secret what the baron did in the USA.

              Of course I understand - you still need to be in the trend and kick the Soviet one.
              Quote: professor
              And by the way, humanity escaped into space only thanks to Nazi Germany.

              So let it be, if only not for the USSR. Let von Braun, but not Soviet, but under the leadership of Beria. And for this, all the means are good, you can drive the blizzard that the 7th King didn’t do, but von Braun in the USA. Yes, she’s still a bundle of A-4 bundles connected with twine. fool People picks.
              Regarding the article ... well, you could write
              GKNPC them. Khrunicheva breathing in the air, and RSC Energia, which has established itself as a high-quality manufacturer of Soyuz spacecraft and other equipment. "Energy" is much less likely to fall into the reports of corruption scandals. It is as if encouraging.
              and no longer take a steam bath. Although of course in the ice industry, in fact, what did you want ??? ,, The market will regulate everything "
              1. +10
                6 June 2017 09: 03
                Today I read a beautiful expression: "The withered hand of a market economy." Got great pleasure. And this is about protectionism in the developed capitalist states)))
            3. +14
              6 June 2017 10: 30
              Quote: professor
              That's just about Tsiolkovsky with his theories of the superman is not necessary.

              With the superman theory? what You are not mistaken? After all, Tsiolkovsky spoke of superhumanity - and in dozens, hundreds and even thousands and billions of years!
              This is reflected in the work of A. L. Chizhevsky, “Theory of Cosmic Eras (Conversations with Tsiolkovsky)”
              I think that the cosmic being of mankind, like everything in space, can be divided into four main eras:

              1. The era of birth, into which humanity will enter in a few tens or hundreds of years and which will last several billion years (according to Earth's duration).

              2. The era of becoming. This era will be marked by the resettlement of mankind throughout the cosmos. The duration of this era is hundreds of billions of years. Communication of people is only telepathic.

              3. The heyday of humanity. Now it is difficult to predict its duration - also, obviously, hundreds of billions of years. Telepathization of the Cosmos. Inclusion of inert matter in telepathization.

              4. The terminal era will take tens of billions of years. During this era, humanity will fully answer the question: “Why?” - and considers it good to turn from a corpuscular substance into another state. What is the all-telepathic era of Cosmos - we do not really know anything and can not assume anything.

              I admit (although it’s just illogical, but nature, when it comes to perfection, resorts to illogical acts: it not only logically evolves, but also logically collapses!) That in many billions of years this era of Cosmos will again turn into a corpuscular, but higher level to start all over again: there will be Suns, nebulae, constellations, planets, but according to a more perfect law, and again a new, more perfect person, a person of another “cut” will come into Space ... to go through all the high eras and through long milia Some years go out again, turning into a superradiative or super telepathic state, but also of a higher level. Billions of years will pass, and again, higher-class matter will emerge from the rays, and finally, a supernova will appear, which will be the mind as superior to us as we are above inert matter. He will no longer ask: why? He will know this and, based on his knowledge, will build his own Cosmos according to the model that he considers more perfect ... Such will be the change of great cosmic eras and the great growth of mind! And this will continue until this mind knows everything, that is, many billions of billions of years, many cosmic births and deaths. And so, when the mind (or thinking matter) knows everything, it will consider existence itself unnecessary and will go into a telepathic state of a high order, which will know everything and not want anything, that is, that state of consciousness that the human mind considers the prerogative of the gods. Cosmos will turn into great perfection.
              You fantasize wonderfully, ”I said. “So believable.” But if this is not a fantasy ... You, Konstantin Eduardovich, must forgive me for some doubts ... it is difficult without them.

              “This is a scheme,” he calmly said, “while the scheme is bare, but the periodic paths of man’s birth and death are clear now. It is now clear that the question: “Why?” - it will be decided by reason, that is, by matter itself, in endless billions of years, maybe not earlier than when all the matter surrounding us changes, passing gradually through the animated life and the thinking brain of a person, superman and its absolute perfection - world telepathy. In my constructions I operate thousands of billions of years in accordance with the dimensions of the Cosmos itself, for cosmic matter, time, mind and world telepathy are interconnected by certain mathematical relationships. There is no mathematician who writes this idea in the form of a formula.
              1. +4
                6 June 2017 10: 49
                Quote: andj61
                You are not mistaken?

                No, I was not mistaken. However, this is not relevant to the topic of the article.
                http://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/ar101.ht
                m

                Government organization cannot be effective. From that IMHO and the problems of Russian cosmonautics. Space, like aviation, should be private. For only competition can drive progress.
                1. +8
                  6 June 2017 11: 17
                  Quote: professor
                  Government organization cannot be effective.

                  In space, the opposite is true.
                  1. +3
                    6 June 2017 13: 08
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Quote: professor
                    Government organization cannot be effective.

                    In space, the opposite is true.

                    You have read the article under which you leave a comment. The author tried, wrote ...

                    Quote: andj61
                    It looks like this is a sketch of a known substance on a fan!

                    May be so.

                    Quote: andj61
                    And how, in general, did the exit of man, and of mankind, into space take place?

                    By spending incredible effort and money.

                    Quote: andj61
                    There is only one answer - solely thanks to the state. organizations around the world.
                    Commercial exploitation by state organizations will be less efficient, and only because a private company cares not about an effective solution to the problem, but about making a profit. And profit can be obtained without solving the problem. For example, like the same Musk, selling tours to space today. Sooner or later, he will probably provide these flights. But it may not provide, but he already made a profit!

                    Boeing and Airbus are not state-owned corporations and are successfully engaged in aeronautics. Space is no exception. Take an interest in the private trader and he will fly to Mars.

                    Quote: andj61
                    Yes, and space exploration itself state. organizations are currently highly doubtful. NASA uses the same Mask, and Roscosmos uses Energy and Khrunicheev. And these are all private organizations ...

                    The mask does not use, but uses its services that are cheaper even than the Chinese. Yes, and Roscosmos is not a private organization for good reason, like NPO Energia.
                    1. +6
                      6 June 2017 13: 29
                      Quote: professor
                      Yes, and Roscosmos is not a private organization for good reason, like NPO Energia.

                      Roscosmos, like NASA, uses the services of private organizations. Naturally, Roscosmos, like NASA, is not a private organization.
                      But the public joint-stock company RSC Energia is just a private organization. Here the State Scientific and Technical Center named after MV Khrunichev can really be called a state enterprise - it is both federal, state and unitary ...
                      1. +4
                        6 June 2017 13: 33
                        Quote: andj61
                        Quote: professor
                        Yes, and Roscosmos is not a private organization for good reason, like NPO Energia.

                        Roscosmos, like NASA, uses the services of private organizations. Naturally, Roscosmos, like NASA, is not a private organization.
                        But the public joint-stock company RSC Energia is just a private organization. Here the State Scientific and Technical Center named after MV Khrunichev can really be called a state enterprise - it is both federal, state and unitary ...

                        You confuse the purchase of components from private traders and the implementation of a full launch cycle by a private trader on his rocket. The NGO Energy is a public organization with a controlling stake in the hands of the state ...
                2. +5
                  6 June 2017 11: 28
                  Quote: professor
                  No, I was not mistaken. However, this is not relevant to the topic of the article.
                  http://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/ar101.ht

                  In addition to G. Salakhutdinov’s article and cross-references, again I didn’t find anything more than that ... Even real works (Joy without reckoning) are cited selectively, without conclusions and conclusions that Tsiolkovsky himself gives, and there the exact opposite is quoted .
                  It looks like this is a sketch of a known substance on a fan!
                  Quote: professor
                  Government organization cannot be effective. From that IMHO and the problems of Russian cosmonautics. Space, like aviation, should be private. For only competition can drive progress.

                  An effective government organization can not be?
                  And how, in general, did the exit of man, and of mankind, into space take place?
                  There is only one answer - solely thanks to the state. organizations around the world.
                  Commercial exploitation by state organizations will be less efficient, and only because a private company cares not about an effective solution to the problem, but about making a profit. And profit can be obtained without solving the problem. For example, like the same Musk, selling tours to space today. Sooner or later, he will probably provide these flights. But it may not provide, but he already made a profit!
                  Yes, and space exploration itself state. organizations are currently highly doubtful. NASA uses the same Mask, and Roscosmos uses Energy and Khrunicheev. And these are all private organizations ... hi
                3. +2
                  6 June 2017 13: 11
                  It’s ridiculous. According to you, the state is inefficient. Then the question is, why isn’t Israel falling apart from your statement? After all, the state consists of state organizations. We will not talk about Russia, our state exists contrary to your logic. Answer us, Sivolapim, about Israel !!!!!!!
                4. avt
                  +3
                  6 June 2017 15: 47
                  Quote: professor
                  Government organization cannot be effective. From that IMHO and the problems of Russian cosmonautics. Space, like aviation, should be private.

                  bully
                  Quote: professor
                  Take an interest in the private trader and he will fly to Mars.

                  Oh, wei! And who should interest him? What kind of interest? I'm afraid to ask - is it not a state? bully
                  Quote: professor
                  For only competition can drive progress.

                  bully Yes, you are a professor, a sectarian from the Gaydarov’s witnesses. bully Yes, in the USSR under state space there was such a competition between Chelomey and Korolev - the mother of Daragai. The mask never dreamed of. And things turned over - we still can’t figure out everything that was stolen after 1991, see the Myasishchev’s development airplane implemented by the US. While they were painting cartoons in their market, SDI scared us, market craftsmen, in the non-market USSR they made a laser battle station, and Humpback drowned “Skif.” So von Braun died from totalitarianism and covered the outer space in the USA with a wound and exchange scams Mask. So about the all-regulating market and the arrival of the holy Investment, re-enter the newly born managers.
            4. +1
              6 June 2017 12: 56
              Quote: professor
              And the fact that the rocket that launched the satellite into orbit was essentially German is no secret to anyone

              What a twist! And the Jews are essentially Arabs!
              It is necessary to have a bite.
            5. +2
              6 June 2017 13: 12
              Quote: professor
              That's just about Tsiolkovsky with his theories of the superman is not necessary. Okay? Not that we get that Tsiolkovsky was the teacher of Von Braun.

              Von Braun was a student of Hermann Obert, who in turn studied the works of Tsiolkovsky.
              That's just about Tsiolkovsky with his theories of the superman is not necessary. Okay?

              You immediately led away from Tsiolkovsky and began to consider all his philosophical fabrications.
          2. +1
            6 June 2017 11: 32
            good well said.
        2. aiw
          +4
          6 June 2017 08: 37
          The entry threshold is too high for a private trader. When the market (there is a demand for the withdrawal of satellites and there is a proposal for the withdrawal of satellites) is formed, the private trader can collect loans / state subsidies and take already developed technologies and infrastructure to enter this market.

          And if all this is not there, live our Mask, say, 70 years ago - would he do R&D in one person and build a spaceport on Cape Canaveral? And then would you convince customers to buy launches? How do you imagine that?

          And if not for the sputnik effect - America would not be that America. But without the German Fau-2, we could have completely managed to do it; work on the jet movement in the USSR was carried out with 1920x. And the Americans would also be able to do without Von Braun. Well, there would be more victims / disasters, and would fly later ...
          1. +9
            6 June 2017 10: 10
            Quote: aiw
            The entry threshold is too high for a private trader. When the market (there is a demand for the withdrawal of satellites and there is a proposal for the withdrawal of satellites) is formed, the private trader can collect loans / state subsidies and take already developed technologies and infrastructure to enter this market.

            You are not right. The threshold is not too high. In addition to the Mask, other private traders also enter space. Amazon owner and New Zealander too. No one else laughs at them joking about trampolines.

            Quote: aiw
            And if all this is not there, live our Mask, say, 70 years ago - would he do R&D in one person and build a spaceport on Cape Canaveral? And then would you convince customers to buy launches? How do you imagine that?

            People like Elon make a story. If he lived 70 years ago and had the means, he would have created something breakthrough for the time he did it with Tesla. No longer laughing at him no more GM, or Mercedes, and nervously smoking on the sidelines.

            Quote: aiw
            And if not for the sputnik effect - America would not be that America. But without the German Fau-2, we could have completely managed to do it; work on the jet movement in the USSR was carried out with 1920x. And the Americans would also be able to do without Von Braun. Well, there would be more victims / disasters, and would fly later ...

            There is no word “would” in history. The fact is that the two leaders in space exploration, to put it mildly, borrowed the harrow "something."

            PS
            We live in a great time space exploration. Right now, space is becoming available.
            1. +5
              6 June 2017 10: 40
              Mask charlatan))) If you refer to him, this is how to refer to Obama as a peacemaker.
              1. +2
                6 June 2017 15: 14
                "Mask quack" - You have evidence of this
            2. +3
              6 June 2017 11: 18
              Quote: professor
              The fact is that the two leaders in space exploration, to put it mildly, borrowed the harrow "something."

              The Baron itself borrowed a lot of things, including from the Russians.
            3. +4
              6 June 2017 11: 38
              Does Mercedes smoke nervously? Probably, after all, if he had removed the gasoline models from the assembly line, he would also end up in an endless asshole, like Tesla. Loss from year to year. Go on.
              1. +5
                6 June 2017 13: 28
                The company's assets, according to the reporting, are growing very rapidly, much faster than debts
            4. aiw
              +11
              6 June 2017 11: 42
              > You are wrong. The threshold is not too high.

              Professor, are you serious? You read it inattentively now the threshold is not very high, after 70 years of active work, 70 years ago only the USSR and the USA were able to overcome this threshold.

              Well, watch your hands. Now the cost of the spaceport is 12 billion greenery. The R&D cost for developing a rocket is 2-4 billion. At first glance, it’s not very much (Google seemed to have 2014 billion assets in 130), but there are two nuances:

              1) Prices for the construction of a cosmodrome and the development of a rocket are given taking into account the already obtained results of R&D for 70 years in this area. If you tried to develop and build something like 70 years ago, the cost would be two to three orders of magnitude higher. And no one, except the state, could have financed these things for 70 years in principle.

              2) I repeat, all this activity for a private trader makes sense if, and only if, the market is formed. And no one except the state is able to form such a market. Let’s say the 2017 year, and on alternative Earth no one has yet flown into space. And Vasya Pupkin comes up with an idea to master this space and make a business out of it (since Vasya is a private businessman and wants to make a profit as a result). Can you imagine what Vasya will have to do marketing work? How to convince potential customers that space flights are fundamentally possible and can bring practical benefits?

              > The fact is that the two leaders of space exploration have borrowed the harrow "something".

              There are two big differences between “borrowing” and “without it it would have been impossible”. Your "escaped into space" closer to the second, but not to the first.

              Professor, you disappoint me ... ;-(
              1. +3
                6 June 2017 13: 19
                Quote: aiw
                1) Prices for the construction of a cosmodrome and the development of a rocket are given taking into account the already obtained results of R&D for 70 years in this area. If you tried to develop and build something like 70 years ago, the cost would be two to three orders of magnitude higher. And no one, except the state, could have financed these things for 70 years in principle.

                The construction of an airport is also incomparable with the cost of an airplane, but no one requires Tupolev to build airfields for itself. The state has taken up this.

                Quote: aiw
                2) I repeat, all this activity for a private trader makes sense if, and only if, the market is formed. And no one except the state is able to form such a market. Let’s say the 2017 year, and on alternative Earth no one has yet flown into space. And Vasya Pupkin comes up with an idea to master this space and make a business out of it (since Vasya is a private businessman and wants to make a profit as a result). Can you imagine what Vasya will have to do marketing work? How to convince potential customers that space flights are fundamentally possible and can bring practical benefits?

                The laws of the market are universal. Where there is demand, supply is born. If launches of Russian missiles are cheaper than maskov missiles, then no sentiment would help this African. But his services are cheaper and he squeezes out the market of clumsy competitors. Even cheaper competitors will soon catch up. Market. Whoever does not understand this is confronted with "Effective disgrace and questions of a cosmic scale."

                Quote: saturn.mmm
                And where is their manned vehicle? While everyone is flying from the Russian trampoline, the Americans are beating themselves in the chest for the 18-19-20 year the device will be ready, maybe or maybe not, not one has made a flight into space yet.

                In developing. We will not wait much longer.

                Quote: saturn.mmm
                Without NASA, Ilona would not have been

                Without demand, there is no supply.
                1. aiw
                  +2
                  6 June 2017 13: 29
                  > Market laws are universal. Where there is demand, supply is born.

                  Correctly! But in order to create demand, we must first show that this is in principle feasible. Returning to the original message that you are so clumsy trying to refute - humanity escaped into space thanks to the USSR. If the USSR had not launched the first satellite, what thread would the private trader launch? Where would the demand come from satellites?
                  1. +1
                    6 June 2017 14: 43
                    Quote: aiw
                    > Market laws are universal. Where there is demand, supply is born.
                    Correctly! But in order to create demand, we must first show that this is in principle feasible. Returning to the original message that you are so clumsy trying to refute - humanity escaped into space thanks to the USSR. If the USSR had not launched the first satellite, what thread would the private trader launch? Where would the demand come from satellites?

                    Demand is born before technically the proposal is able to satisfy it. Demand for satellite navigation appeared long before the advent of astronautics.
                    A few months after the USSR launched the first satellite, the bourgeois launched their first satellite. By the way, he flew there before the 1970's. If NASA hadn’t launched that satellite, private owners would have done it. A little later, but would have done. You can make money on it. Here is the whole driver.

                    Quote: aiw
                    And why would the state have to build airports if no one had made a single plane? I repeat - the entry threshold for a private trader is NOW acceptable. And when it all began, this threshold was far from being possible for any state, even the most technologically advanced.

                    The state has its own interests. As a rule, this is a concern for their taxpayers. When taxpayers need this or that infrastructure, the state opens a kitty from which it can buy expensive, not very high-quality goods from a state-owned enterprise or cheaper and higher-quality goods from a private trader. If Daimler was a state-owned enterprise, we would deal with backward and low-quality goods. And it’s not at all about the threshold, but about desire.

                    PS
                    From a personal photo album. Made in Germany on May 9 of this year.

                    1. aiw
                      +6
                      6 June 2017 15: 34
                      > Demand is born before the supply is technically able to satisfy it

                      Only for science fiction writers.

                      > The demand for satellite navigation appeared long before the advent of astronautics.

                      Professor, you are not in the subject. There was a demand for navigation in general, and this demand was completely satisfied by traditional methods. The understanding that satellite navigation is possible, like satellite navigation itself, appeared much later than the start of astronautics, and besides cosmonautics, it required the development of a whole fundamentally new branch of science, instrument engineering, etc. By the way, it was again done not by private traders, despite the demand.

                      > Do not launch NASA that satellite, it would be done by private traders. A little later, but would have done.

                      Would private traders build a spaceport and develop a rocket? Professor, do you know how to read and count?

                      > You can make money on this. Here is the entire driver.

                      No Professor, you can’t make so much money to recapture the costs of rocket development from scratch and cosmodrome construction. Even now it’s impossible, despite the fact that there is a steady demand for launches, and even then it was definitely impossible. If Ilon Musk did not have access to the entire pool of NASA technologies accumulated over 70 years, he would not have forced Falcon. If the USA did not have a cosmodrome built by the state, no private owner would launch anything in the USA. This is precisely the high threshold of entry, and it is very strange that you understand such elementary things ...
                      1. +3
                        6 June 2017 19: 54
                        Quote: aiw
                        Only for science fiction writers.

                        Rotting capitalists, they are. Solid science fiction. laughing

                        Quote: aiw
                        Professor, you are not in the subject. There was a demand for navigation in general, and this demand was completely satisfied by traditional methods. The understanding that satellite navigation is possible, like satellite navigation itself, appeared much later than the start of astronautics, and besides cosmonautics, it required the development of a whole fundamentally new branch of science, instrument engineering, etc. By the way, it was again done not by private traders, despite the demand.

                        I'm still in the subject. How much this demand was completely satisfied by traditional methods can be personally judged by my first trip to the USA and navigation there by car atlases, by boat trips in the Black Sea and by the absence of Garmin with satellite navigation in my bike rides then. Private owners satisfied my navigation needs. And they would also launch satellites if the state allowed them to this feeding trough.

                        Quote: aiw
                        Would private traders build a spaceport and develop a rocket? Professor, do you know how to read and count?

                        I am able and not very bad. Once upon a time, only states built airports. Today, airports are building, and they launch private traders and rockets into space. And all because where there is profit there will be business. Market.


                        Quote: aiw
                        No Professor, you can’t earn so much to recapture the costs of developing a rocket from scratch and the construction of a spaceport. Even now it’s impossible, despite the fact that there is a steady demand for launches, and even then it was definitely impossible. If Ilon Musk didn’t have access to the entire NASA technology pool gained over 70 years, he wouldn’t force Falcon. If the USA did not have a cosmodrome built by the state, no private owner would launch anything in the USA. This is precisely the high threshold of entry, and it is very strange that you understand such elementary things ...

                        You can not only make money on this, but also make good money. How do you like such a spaceport for your money?

                        And if the United States didn’t give the Mask a launch pad, he would make his own or launch rockets from such a cosmodrome. Market. fellow



                        PS
                        I can imagine how many pieces of paper I need to collect a private trader in Russia to launch a rocket into space.
                2. aiw
                  +3
                  6 June 2017 13: 47
                  > The construction of an airport is also incomparable with the cost of an airplane, but no one requires Tupolev to build airfields for himself. The state was engaged in this.

                  And why would the state have to build airports if no one had made a single plane? I repeat - entry threshold for a private trader NOW acceptable. And when it all began, this threshold was far from being possible for any state, even the most technologically advanced.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. 0
                  6 June 2017 22: 29
                  Quote: professor
                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  Without NASA, Ilona would not have been

                  Without demand, there is no supply.

                  Without money, however, too!
            5. +2
              6 June 2017 12: 12
              Quote: professor
              No one else laughs at them joking about trampolines.

              And where is their manned vehicle? While everyone is flying from the Russian trampoline, the Americans are beating themselves in the chest for the 18-19-20 year the device will be ready, maybe or maybe not, not one has made a flight into space yet.
              .
              Quote: professor
              People like Elon make a story.

              Without NASA, Ilona would not have been
              In 1903, K. E. Tsiolkovsky published an article entitled “Exploring the World Spaces with Reactive Devices,” where he first proved that a rocket is capable of performing a space flight. The article also proposed the first long-range missile project. Its body was an oblong metal chamber equipped with a liquid jet engine; as a fuel and an oxidizing agent, he proposed using liquid hydrogen and oxygen, respectively. To control the flight of the rocket, gas rudders were provided

              In fact, the father of German astronautics is German Julius Obert, who studied the works of Tsiolkovsky.
              Von brown
              “Herman Obert was the first who, thinking about the possibility of creating spacecraft, picked up a slide rule and presented mathematically sound ideas and designs ... Personally, I see in him not only the guiding light of my life, but also owe him my first contacts with theoretical and practical issues of rocket science and space missions. ”In the history of science and technology for his revolutionary contribution to astronautics, he should be given an honorable place.”
            6. 0
              7 June 2017 20: 39
              You "God-Anointed" Mask - Zvizdab and PR! EVERYTHING that he supposedly “does” is a fraud of suckers for loot (the outside), but in reality he is nothing more than a “technogenic pastor” inviting to his prayer shows. Thanks to the hype that has been raised under this brand and the billions of investments of "obscure sources" in the United States, young people "echelons" are falling into technical universities. That just 180 degrees changed the picture before the start of steaming mask !! fool
              I repeat for those who are in the tank (Mask projects): an electric car - is produced only on a prepaid basis for incomparably big money for wealthy makers; there is absolutely nothing innovative in his electric vehicles, from the word - at all; charging drives for "saving money" - bullshit from beginning to end, assembled from waste battery packs (by the way 100% Chinese, and yes, Chinese technology) does not save anything and does not save; Falcon rocket - EVERYTHING in this rocket from the first screw to the last is made using NASA technologies, NASA experts, NASA equipment, for the money of the USA, which would otherwise be allocated by NASA !!!
        3. +7
          6 June 2017 11: 51
          Regarding the profitability of private companies, can I elaborate more? So far, in addition to the ingenious sales of shares of a loss-making company, I don’t know anything :-(
        4. +1
          6 June 2017 15: 11
          Yes, there is nothing commercial there yet. Money and NASA technology. The idea of ​​an effective manager. At VO in satire a year ago, an article was published there, many facts were collected.

          https://topwar.ru/95392-makaronnyy-monstr-ilona-m
          aska-ili-zakonomernyy-itog-avantyury.html
          1. +2
            6 June 2017 18: 38
            “Yes, there is nothing commercial there yet” - Commercial launches already exist and one of them Musk took from us. And whatever you do, SpaceX is a successful company.
        5. +4
          6 June 2017 18: 20
          Quote: professor
          Yah? It is not profitable and therefore the private trader flies into space at the expense of himself? Here is yesterday's dock.

          All the benefits of space have seen through not so long ago. and after the USSR launched the first satellite, Congress got very excited, and demanded to increase the cost of education. NASA gained access to cash without limits. (T. Wolfe: “The Battle for Space”) hi When here, on the site, someone wrote that free education in the USSR is idiocy, I just fell into the sediment.
        6. 0
          12 June 2017 09: 42
          You are not tired of the mantoa at all about the “private trader” flying into space. With an unarmed look, it is clear that this is a project of NASA or some government agencies to conquer the market. All expenses are borne by NASA and the most profitable moments are, as it were, part of the Mask company. In this regard, the Americans are well done: if nothing had burned out, NASA would have seemed to be not aisles and would not have messed up the already damaged reputation. In the meantime, everything at Mask is not going badly and everyone is happy, but Roscosmos along the way also wins it, practically stopping production and launches. The ShchVS Mask has an ideal position to conquer the market and it will conquer it. But this is not because he is such a successful businessman. Behind him is the full power of American finance policy ...
          1. 0
            12 June 2017 16: 54
            A normal state exists in order to advance the interests of its citizens.
    2. +2
      6 June 2017 10: 59
      Russian cosmonautics end
      A country that has not established order on earth does not have a right to space.
      Is there order on the outskirts? Does she have the right to space?
      Did the states clean up the earth? Do you like this order? Do they have the right to fly? - and they fly ....
      Stop whining !!! stop We will succeed ... but later! Yes
    3. +2
      6 June 2017 11: 15
      Quote: Basarev
      Yes, it's time to recognize that the Russian space program is over.

      It’s high time to recognize that chemical missiles are a dead end. People whom we considered geniuses led our astronautics into a dead end.
      1. +1
        6 June 2017 13: 29
        Good sarcasm :)
        1. 0
          6 June 2017 14: 07
          Quote: andrewTSO
          Good sarcasm :)

          On that and stand.
        2. 0
          6 June 2017 15: 13
          ... if it's sarcasm ...
          1. 0
            6 June 2017 16: 07
            Quote: Grandpa Eugene
            ... if it's sarcasm ...

            In every sarcasm there is a share .... sarcasm.
      2. +3
        6 June 2017 15: 24
        “It’s high time to recognize that chemical missiles are a dead end” - The dead end is the very use of rockets in the space sector - an aerospace plane, the future, there were many projects in the 70s and 80s: MIG 2000, Tu 2000, Tu 360, M 19 all of these developments ruined the collapse of the USSR, and M 19, buried the creation of an unnecessary Buran.
    4. +1
      7 June 2017 04: 17
      a person who refuses the right of his country to space, does not have the right to be a citizen of this country
  4. +31
    6 June 2017 06: 56
    The main problem is a mess in our heads .. Alas, this applies to absolutely all sectors and areas of our lives .. The children of Komsomol workers who seized power 30 years ago took top positions and this is the result ...
    I’m working now for the Power of Siberia .. You can’t even imagine what a mess there .. And this is absolutely everything, starting from the project, and ending with logistics, welding, and more .. Moreover, the most terrible incompetence comes precisely from the top management, more and more less leveled by the average and finally corrected directly by the performers .. It is poor but poorly corrected ... In space, technology is more complicated and apparently this principle no longer works ...
    1. +3
      6 June 2017 07: 24
      "...
      During the discussion, some comrades too zealously “delivered” the draft textbook, scolded its authors for errors and omissions, argued that the draft failed. This is unfair. Of course, errors and omissions are in the textbook - they are almost always in a big deal. But be that as it may, the vast majority of participants in the discussion nevertheless recognized that the draft textbook can serve as the basis for the future textbook and needs only some amendments and additions. Indeed, one only has to compare the draft textbook with the available textbooks of political economy in order to conclude that the draft textbook is a whole head taller than existing textbooks. The great merit of the authors of the draft textbook is that.
      I think that to improve the design of the textbook, a small commission should be appointed including not only the authors of the textbook and not only supporters of the majority of the participants in the discussion, but also opponents of the majority, ardent critics of the draft textbook.
      It would be nice to include also experienced statisticians in the commission to check the numbers and introduce new statistical materials into the draft, as well as an experienced lawyer to verify the accuracy of the wording.
      The members of the commission should be temporarily freed from any other work, providing them fully in material terms, so that they could completely devote themselves to work on the textbook.
      In addition, an editorial commission should be appointed, say, of three people for the final edition of the textbook. It is also necessary in order to achieve unity of style, which, unfortunately, is not in the draft textbook.
      The deadline for submitting the finished textbook to the Central Committee is 1 year. "
      IV Stalin - "ECONOMIC PROBLEMS
      SOCIALISM IN THE USSR ", 1952
      What is it for? The fact that a correctly formulated task is a huge help for solving the problem.
      And now you are sitting and thinking how to interpret this or that law or order. Rarely do you get pleasure from a pointer coming from above.
    2. aiw
      +13
      6 June 2017 08: 28
      So if the sons of Rogozin and Co. after the university go through a difficult and glorious career from deputy general to general, where does the quality of management come from .... This fraternity is only able to invent new forms of reporting, and also to cut.
      1. +4
        6 June 2017 13: 14
        “So if the sons of Rogozin and Co. after the university go through a difficult and glorious career from deputy general to general”

        In 2005 he graduated from Moscow State University of Economics, Statistics and Informatics. From 2005 to 2008 - graduate student of the Moscow State Institute of International Relations (University) of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia, from 2012 - Tula State University.
        How will statistics, computer science and international relations help guide this genius of IL? It is not worth the grass that grows on the grave of the Great Ilyushin !!!
        Yes, and how are things in the fight against corruption ?!
        Well, the last, the mother of this great manager, erupted talent, she dedicated a song to the aircraft MS-21, a brilliant family !!!
        1. +1
          6 June 2017 14: 10
          Quote: voffchik7691
          It is not worth the grass that grows on the grave of the Great Ilyushin !!!

          This can be said about any of us, we all are not worth the grass that grows on the graves of our ancestors. Tsiolkovsky was looking for superhumans in the distant future, he did not realize that they are superhumans, the generation that went through the great war.
    3. +3
      6 June 2017 10: 46
      I agree. I’m working on another project myself. These stupid "engineers" "designers" designed this, and moronic construction superintendents can not agree on the timing and schedule. Here comes one brigade knocks down the door of another brigade which made a temporary warehouse in the room. From the warehouse everyone was stolen, and the hard workers are to blame. When nerds in jackets I can’t agree on when and what to do.
  5. +7
    6 June 2017 07: 15
    RKK brainchild of Korolyov, GKNPTS Chelomeya. During life, the designers competed, only the guide from the Central Committee forced them to cooperate fruitfully. Now are these echoes multiplied by "effective" managers?
    1. +4
      6 June 2017 10: 13
      Because instead of a bunch of warring shops, the Soviet analogue of NASA was needed - a single office that deals with all cosmonautics and only it. With a single boss.
      1. +1
        6 June 2017 12: 09
        She is - Roscosmos. It is like NASA. And the RCC and GKNPTS like Lockheed Martin and Boeing. This is offhand. It is not a matter of a single boss, it is a matter of demand for the result, that is responsibility.
  6. +15
    6 June 2017 07: 16
    In the current situevina, there are too high risks of getting a marriage and exploding missiles from Yuzhmash because not so much of a lack of qualifications, but because of sabotage. And if these carriers light up as participating in the Russian lunar program, then all interested “partners” how to give a drink will begin to sabotage launches in all available ways.
    And apparently, I’m not the only one who expresses my desire to hang up the "mundial" of domestic "effective managers" for their outright theft and the collapse of the rocket and space industry. Attempts to create commercial astronautics in the Russian Federation on the model of American companies are utopia and a cover for cutting the state budget, which is involved in any situation there.
  7. +5
    6 June 2017 07: 32
    Do not be Russia a space power.
    1. +4
      6 June 2017 09: 18
      Quote: God-given
      Do not be Russia a space power.

      The Kazakhs are investing money in the phoenix-sunkar, it is clear that the story of the hangar and ksatsat1 did not teach anything, or it may have taught that it is good to cut budget money together with Russian counterparts on the topic of space.
  8. +4
    6 June 2017 07: 33
    But what about the asymmetric answer?
    After all, elementary operation of hypersonic rockets requires a space grouping.
    1. +1
      6 June 2017 10: 16
      Quote: Shahno
      But what about the asymmetric answer?
      After all, elementary operation of hypersonic rockets requires a space grouping.

      But this does not require manned space exploration. At the current size of most satellites, heavy and even medium-sized missiles are not needed at all - small and small enough to support the necessary space constellation.
      1. +1
        6 June 2017 13: 07
        I wanted to say that in order to maintain the space constellation, it is for military target designation that a serious infrastructure will be needed, and not several satellites in low orbit. What do you think the enemy will not resist?
        And the article clearly hints at the unimportant state of affairs in the space industry. And do you really think that for example at the Samara Progress the situation is radically different, he has special privileges.
        1. aiw
          0
          6 June 2017 13: 31
          We have enough strength for several military satellites, military satellites do not have to be cost-effective.
  9. +6
    6 June 2017 08: 16
    Quote: professor
    That's just about Tsiolkovsky with his theories of the superman is not necessary. Okay? Not that we get that Tsiolkovsky was the teacher of Von Braun. And the fact that the rocket which launched the satellite into orbit was essentially German is not a secret for anyone, just as it is not a secret what the baron did in the USA.

    --------------------------
    Professor, tie a drink. You are celebrating Christian holidays along the way. laughing hi Now you will begin to fill in the spirit of "AK came out of Sturmgever." laughing
    1. +8
      6 June 2017 09: 22
      and the grenade launcher came from this
  10. aiw
    +19
    6 June 2017 08: 21
    Farewell to space
    Guskov Alexey
    Take away the "Protons", take away the "Unions"
    Last tons, last loads
    To the formerly native orbits
    Which will be just about forgotten.

    There will be no greetings to Venus and Mars
    From us, exchanging spacesuits for cassocks,
    Overalls for jeans, factories on the exchange.
    And space is farther, And stars are higher ...

    With what pleasure I would spit in a mug
    Today's scoundrels Yura Gagarin
    For winning the space rally
    We stupidly pissed off. Badly crap ...
  11. +6
    6 June 2017 08: 41
    Not a single rocket built by Ukraine for Russia will take off immediately for a dozen reasons, but if it comes off the table, it will fall, again guaranteed.
    For those who want to spoil the damned Muscovites - the legion!
    At every stage. Starting with the cleaning lady.
    1. +2
      6 June 2017 11: 42
      And if it takes off, how will you explain?
      1. +3
        6 June 2017 11: 49
        Total control.
        1. 0
          6 June 2017 11: 51
          Do you believe what you wrote?
          1. +3
            6 June 2017 11: 57
            All right.
            Do you agree that there are a number of skakoks working on Yuzhmash? Skaklov-is Svidomo who sincerely hate Russian?
            This is a brain disease. From here, you need to expect the worst.
            The management and owners of Yuzhmash will be happy to do quality work.
            1. +1
              6 June 2017 12: 33
              About that level of hysteria, who will give them quality work for the "aggressor" ... even if it saves the Ukrainian economy? They are for the idea of ​​banderization bite their own leg in vain "damned Muscovites."
            2. +1
              6 June 2017 12: 57
              To determine your brain disease, first look at my comments and articles on the site. Find any nationalistic motives there.
              1. 0
                6 June 2017 13: 37
                Yes, if you had one or another tens of millions, then yes. And so, see the above ...
                1. 0
                  6 June 2017 13: 38
                  So think about who has a brain disease.
                  1. +1
                    6 June 2017 17: 24
                    Those. You yourself attributed to the Svidomo ropes?
                    There is not the slightest hint of you personally in my text.
  12. +9
    6 June 2017 09: 23
    Novel. I always read with interest your articles on the situation in the industry. Articles are biting, sometimes evil, but true in my humble opinion. In many respects I agree with the current article, except perhaps for a couple of points. You are talking about confirming the "fall" of the industry, taking as an example the order for Yuzhmash Zenit. Perhaps politically this decision is not the best. But if you look at it not from a political, but from an economic point of view. Is there any other option now?
    Sea Launch purchased. Your phrase about him that only a few launches were launched from him is not very true. From 1999 to 2014, 36 Zenit were launched from the platform (and this is still not a few). 3 emergency, 1 partially successful. In total, 88,8 (8)% are successful. So here. Sea Launch purchased. And what to let him go? "Sungara" or "Phoenix" is not there and is unlikely in the next 5 years will be. Well, another 5 years will stand idle complex, which can bring money to the industry? I think that as a palliative, the current purchase of Zenit is by no means the worst option
    You correctly said that when the Phoenix flies, it is not clear yet. Will it be a replacement for the "Hangar" or an addition - too. What will be the characteristics of each modification is still not clear. Will it be necessary to rebuild the start on the 45th platform or to build new ones for options with sidewalls too. In this situation, I think that buying Zenit on the south-west of the machine is not so much a stupid thing and it can’t hurt us in any way (it’s already so that it can be damaged)

    Quote: professor
    And the fact that the rocket which launched the satellite into orbit was essentially German is not a secret for anyone, just as it is not a secret what the baron did in the USA.

    If you knew where that line passes “in essence” or “not in essence”? So about the royal R-7. What was she essentially German? Only in its scheme "package". Yes, we can agree with that. The picture of the rocket with the G - //// index appeared even before work was started on the project, which later became the P-7. But only only. The idea of ​​a package scheme was already "rushing in the air" and M.K. Tikhonravov, taking as a basis for the R-5 rocket.
    Only the external circuit of the R-7 is really German. That one as well as the "seven" had a central unit and 4 side panels. All the rest, namely the filling of the rocket, its engines, communications and so on were already our, domestic development. Yes, perhaps this German project gave some impetus to the creation of the R-7 precisely in this way. But not more.
    I can also say that the Soviet N-1 also had a "German older brother." And also exclusively according to the scheme.
    1. +2
      6 June 2017 11: 40
      The professor does not agree with you. He even knows everything in P7.
  13. +7
    6 June 2017 09: 35
    Of course, I understand the desire of Israel to cling to the primacy of going out into space, since von Braun is a Jew in the sixth tribe, but Fau is not even a Korean boast12. But the question with the effective managers of the country's economy is to ask the GDP, because in all sectors where they started to work everywhere, collapse has started since the ukkh. the enterprise should be led by an engineer with a manager subordinate to him and if he is not efficient to drive him or plant him for life.
    1. +1
      6 June 2017 11: 51
      They will never be able to cling!
      Because they write right-to-left and anti-wool missiles - they launch west!
  14. +8
    6 June 2017 09: 38
    Here, as in many other cases. where effective management really effectively ruins the matter, one can only say - Glory to the Russian Federation! That's right, because this is the glory of the Russian Federation! Cut quality, quickly roll back, where to level and - silence!
    In the USSR they planted for such a minimum with confiscation. And in the Russian Federation they trust to manage something else. Bonus, so to speak! So glory is!
    But how good it is to shoot Time of the First and dream of the great past of the country, which is considered to be the stronghold of all the worst and undemocratic!
    1. +1
      6 June 2017 10: 44
      everything ... generally everything-props ... shamelessly deceiving without conscience .. the honor of responsibility .. a huge group of some terrible people ... they lie samolov.org
  15. +1
    6 June 2017 10: 08
    Step forward and two back.
    So the gearbox can be broken ...
    Who has such a goal: to destroy the Russian cosmonautics to the ground?
    "The best is the enemy of the good" Le mieux est I \ 'ennemi du bien. 450 years ago it was said, but as it was, it remained ...
  16. 0
    6 June 2017 10: 41
    Dear Roman! Friends! Have super ideas! We’ll put everyone in their place! Russia will be the very first and most peaceful !!! The best! samolov.org
    1. 0
      6 June 2017 15: 39
      There are ideas, one of them is to return to the creation of a single-stage aerospace aircraft, the cost of R&D, construction, testing and serial production will be comparable to the cost of the East.
  17. +2
    6 June 2017 10: 43
    no words, one mate and desire for reckoning in full.
  18. 0
    6 June 2017 10: 51
    There is a systematic and methodical destruction not only of our space industry, but of the Russian State itself. So for the United States, Putin, Medvedev and Chubais, this is a good reminder.
  19. 0
    6 June 2017 11: 06
    another panic is not clear from what .. well, damn it all specialists .. sofa troops!
    1. aiw
      +6
      6 June 2017 11: 48
      Tell me more about how it really is. You, as I understand it, are real specials, writing directly from Baikonur from under the nozzles of another rocket? Or from the MCC? Or directly from the ISS?
  20. +2
    6 June 2017 11: 28
    Kalinovsky, Chubais and the like - to uranium mines with confiscation!
  21. +14
    6 June 2017 11: 34
    As I understand it, this is not about the formation of Russia as a space power, but about the collapse of a space power. You don’t need to drag equipment here: it is still in abundance. But our little sons, who came to the administration, this is really a disaster. The most frisky have already left for America and Europe back in the 90s. Well, solid threes left here to break through the economy of the USSR. Right now, the last "grandfathers" are leaving production and design bureaus, and there will be one real estate in the space industry in the form of concrete workshops, test benches. I have no doubt at all if in my head (on my mind) one money, any business, no matter which you lead, can be broken up in a short time. Well and rightly: besides oil pipelines, gas pipelines and roads nothing comes to their mind. Sell ​​oil and gas, buy Bentley and Porsches and drive along the roads. You can carry food from Argentina so that you don’t mess with your peasantry. To send slaves to retire at the age of 69 so that their lips roll out to return insurance pension money.
    The first thing you see when meeting with these guys in power is a self-confident look, the absence of doubts in making decisions, a greenish $ tint in your eyes. The brain is small but as dense as a walnut. And the council, it seems like they are not there right now. But the technique is still there. Only to use it in business, also, unfortunately, without the mind and experience, is impossible.
    1. +3
      8 June 2017 19: 31
      The first thing you see when meeting with these guys in power is a self-confident look, the absence of doubts in making decisions, a greenish $ tint in your eyes.

      It is what it is.
      They still have confidence that any problem can be solved for money.
      But this is not their fault; it is their misfortune and ours.

      They drove into that very small but dense brain that you can and should control anything, but no one has taught how.
      Some areas are lost forever and there is nothing to blame Pu, the process began in the late -80s and ended in the mid-90s. My father was not the last person at the Central Design Bureau
      the office began to die immediately after Chelomei, and yet Efremov is not an "effective manager." That's it.
  22. 0
    6 June 2017 11: 43
    "Zenith", a Soviet, and subsequently Ukrainian missile, was quite successful for its time and did not lose its effectiveness in the 21st century [quote] [/ quote]
    And literally through the line.
    By and large, it was the cheapest rocket for launches into the geostationary orbit, although it lost to Proton in power and reliability.
    author -> author -> author bears complete nonsense, Zenith was a fast rocket. On this her virtues ended. The article is more political than technical.
    1. 0
      6 June 2017 14: 07
      "Zenith was a fast rocket."
      Please explain this passage.
  23. 0
    6 June 2017 11: 56
    It seems that in the Russian rocket science and astronautics came the polar fox - the arctic fox!
  24. +7
    6 June 2017 12: 31
    Constantly the thought revolves in my head ... why not to industry workers and those who care for it to make an open appeal ?!
    Connect the media, so that the country knows its “heroes” of the managers and what really happens.
    And then we have a "conscience, mind, culture and brain" of the people constantly make petitions about oppression and that once again offended an unrecognized genius.
    1. +7
      6 June 2017 12: 46
      The country knows its "heroes"! But the country is dreaming of money ....
      Money has long been an end in itself. People, deeds are forgotten ... There is no time to think about the meaning of life.
      Still, Karl Marx was right! Capitalism is rot and fermentation. His food is tasteless, his films are stupid, his lies are utterly impudent, and fast blacks at stadiums and courts are also a complete deception for the sake of money.
      1. +4
        6 June 2017 14: 06
        Quote: Vladimir Alekseevich
        The country knows its "heroes"

        By no means, I constantly meet people who with foam at the mouth prove that Rogozin is a good leader and has done a lot of good for the country.
        Although I agree with the fact that I did “a lot of useful things”, but not for the country, but for someone specific.
  25. +1
    6 June 2017 13: 01
    Here you have the competition at work.

    First of all, competition beats the size of wages.

    Uncontrolled competition is a production killer.
  26. 0
    6 June 2017 13: 26
    Quote: aiw
    How to convince potential customers that space flights are fundamentally possible and can bring practical benefits?
    Yes, a few years before, it was not possible to convince anyone to get into a self-running carriage, and even exceed a speed of 30 km / h - in general, the world could be counted on the fingers
  27. 0
    6 June 2017 14: 03
    The hopes of Roscosmos for the success of "Sunkar" / "Soyuz-5" in the commercial market are overly optimistic. After losing the clients of ILS (Proton-M), we need not to retain our market share, but to win it again. For this, substantial advantages are needed, which Sunkar does not have. It has a lower payload than the American Falcon 9, and is unlikely to be cheaper than the SpaceX rocket, even in a one-time version. In the coming years there is a real threat of monopolization of the entire market for commercial satellite launch by an American company. Now is not the right time to bet on this market.

    Since the manned infrastructure for Angara missiles on the Vostochny will not be created, Roskosmos de facto acknowledged that the Russian cosmonauts will not fly anywhere beyond the low-Earth orbit neither at the current Federal Space Program (before 2025) or at the FKP-2035 stage. For the expedition to the Moon, we need an extra-heavy rocket, which is supposed to be created no earlier than the middle of the 2030-s.

    In other words, for flights to low Earth orbit, RSC Energia is developing an expensive and heavy manned vehicle requiring a new rocket with a payload of 17-18 t. At the same time, we have a light and cheap Soyuz MS flying to the same lowest Earth orbit. on a cheap Soyuz-2 rocket. The only advantage of the PTK NP, apart from comfortable flight conditions, is the ability to deliver four people to orbit instead of three. But even in the Soyuz, one place out of three is empty. What then is the point of developing a new ship?



    After the recent rejection of the second launching table for the Angara on the East, the already not very realistic four-launch scheme of the flight to the moon, which remained in official plans, has become absolutely fantastic. Therefore, this is not about abandoning the flyby of the moon, nor is it about the transfer of tests of the PTK NP. Roscosmos only recognized the real state of affairs in which the Federation in 2021 could not fly anywhere, and the flight to the Moon on the Angara-A5В cannot be either.



    http://kosmolenta.com/index.php/1064-2017-05-30-m
    anned-phoenix


    No one saw the joke with the name? Sunkar - falcon, falcon - also a falcon. Can add more creative?
    1. 0
      6 June 2017 15: 44
      Well, then we are going to sell the rocket engine, the DRD, the YARD, and sell it abroad — if we cannot pull the cosmonautics.
      1. 0
        6 June 2017 19: 18
        Quote: Vadim237
        Well, then we are going to sell the rocket engine, the DRD, the YARD, and sell it abroad — if we cannot pull the cosmonautics.


        And to whom? So far RD-180 is taken only by the USA. And then what? In the future, BE-4 will appear.
        1. 0
          7 June 2017 00: 18
          Then the NK 39 rocket engine became interested, for an air launch, one of the European countries.
          1. 0
            7 June 2017 11: 37



            Here is this handsome?
  28. 0
    6 June 2017 16: 10
    time will tell, one thing is certain progress is not worth it
  29. 0
    6 June 2017 18: 19
    Quote: Curious
    "Zenith was a fast rocket."
    Please explain this passage.

    Please. The climb rate of Zenit missiles, according to the designers, was supposed to exceed all existing analogues. Due to overloads, there were frequent breakdowns, if I may say so.
    The first rocket exploded at the launch - turning the launch pad 60 degrees.
    The second rocket fell not far from the launch pad,
    The third missile launched, when gaining altitude of the order of 35-50 thousand was lost by telemetrists.
    Then came the "Fun Times" - Starts stopped.
    The equipment is tattered and handed over, which is in color, as is black metal.
    I think the developments used for such a rocket as "Zircon"
    She has never been reliable. Yes, and cheap too.
    Useful perhaps - ON HYPERSONIC in space.
    Here's a story - in the first person.
    I served in Baikonur.
    1. aiw
      +2
      6 June 2017 22: 21
      > HYPERSound into space.

      I’ll tell you Adyn’s thing ... ALL rockets that launch something into space are hypersonic, not only Zenith. And it does not apply to zircon in any way at all.
    2. 0
      8 June 2017 01: 03
      In order for, as you say, the rate of climb to exceed all existing analogues, the rocket must have the most outstanding structural and energy parameters.
    3. +3
      8 June 2017 19: 37
      I served in Baikonur.

      I’m just wondering who you served there, if you don’t know the elementary truths,
      - any hypersonic space rocket
      -when they talk about hypersound now we mean the hypersound of aerodynamic objects
      - in common with zircon with space rockets only the word rocket
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. +1
    6 June 2017 22: 09
    Some liberals are throwing garbage at production engines to sabotage rocket production, while others are writing decadent articles on the topic "everything is gone," and all this against the backdrop of SpaceX's success. All this leads to certain thoughts!
    And regarding the Zanit launch vehicle, it is more correct to say the Dnepropetrovsk missile, and not the Ukrainian one! Because in the occupied Russian city of Dnepropetrovsk, at the depressed Soviet missile-building plant, a priori, it’s impossible to build Ukrainian missiles!
    1. aiw
      +1
      6 June 2017 22: 39
      You are sure to check if liberals are hiding under your bed, and do not forget to ground your foil hat.
      1. +3
        6 June 2017 23: 46
        They don’t hide from me, but in Moscow they had the audacity at the very height of the hostilities in the Donbass, to go to a rally in support of the hostile actions of Ukraine, and actually sign publicly their hatred of Russia and the Russians. Many of them, and those who share their views, work in the space industry. Well, let us instead of crushing cockroaches and monitoring ideological hygiene at strategic enterprises, we will sting about foil caps, it's so simple!
        1. aiw
          +1
          7 June 2017 11: 27
          Uh ... Of course, it does not occur to you that there are people in Russia who are much more intelligent and educated than you, who love Russia no less than you, and who sincerely believe that Russia has nothing to do in the Donbass, and Donbass is a problem for Ukraine ?

          By writing down all those who disagree with your overly competent opinion as haters of Russia, you only demonstrate your idiocy, nothing more. And we have already heard about ideological hygiene ... Has your grandfather by chance not pronounced sentences on "enemies of the people" in 1937? Or was he in the Gestapo watching racial hygiene?
          1. +1
            7 June 2017 12: 10
            So they are from a great mind and love for Russia indulge the genocide of Russians in Ukraine. What a twist!
          2. +3
            8 June 2017 19: 39
            and at the same time sincerely believing that Russia has nothing to do in the Donbass, and donbass is the problem of Ukraine?

            E darling, yes you are a juggler. They write to you about people supporting the actions of the Ukrainian government, and you about interference and non-interference.
            1. aiw
              0
              9 June 2017 08: 01
              An example of such a "maintenance" in the studio please.
    2. 0
      12 June 2017 17: 04
      Cerebral liberty is a terrible disease. It’s probably bad for you to sleep at night. After all, the Liberasts spoiled everything.
  32. aiw
    +2
    6 June 2017 22: 19
    Professor,
    Damn, well, like you're a sane person - and write such nonsense about private traders that oh all ... And leave your stories about personal experience with navigation for grandchildren.

    I am tying up trying to explain something to you; you are hopeless like Gridasov.
    1. +1
      7 June 2017 08: 02
      Quote: aiw
      Professor,
      Damn, well, like you're a sane person - and write such nonsense about private traders that oh all ... And leave your stories about personal experience with navigation for grandchildren.
      I am tying up trying to explain something to you; you are hopeless like Gridasov.

      And rightly so, that you tie. Tell others about the $ 12 billion-dollar spaceport, and we'll find it cheaper.


      1. +4
        7 June 2017 09: 47
        Professor, but tell me, do you say on the 2 number that a famous event happened in the holy city?
        Has democracy reached you in all its glory?
      2. aiw
        +1
        7 June 2017 11: 45
        The fact that a sea launch would be impossible in principle without the construction of Baikonur does not occur to you?

        Here are two extreme examples.

        1) Construction of the Large Hadron Collider $ 6 billion, excluding existing infrastructure, much cheaper than a spaceport. For some reason, not only none of the private traders built such a thing, but even the USA refused to build a similar supercollider, although it tried to start work. The Higgs boson was experimentally discovered at the LHC. If someone smart is able to make the Unified Field Theory and invent anti-gravity, then you will immediately start shouting that they say private traders could do it themselves - build a LHC, finance another bunch of research so that you can skim the cream?

        2) Construction of ITER - a little less than 20 billion euros. None of the private traders is in a hurry to build such a thing; for some reason, a collaboration is being built from two dozen countries. When this thing starts up, and if at last an accessible thermonuclear appears, all the energy problems of mankind will be solved and private traders will certainly come there. And then you will prove with foam at the mouth that private traders could do everything themselves?

        There are two simple facts:

        Fact 1 - space exploration is one of the most expensive projects in the history of mankind, only an atomic project can be compared with it. The lion's share of the cost is R&D and infrastructure.

        Fact 2 - Market laws are harsh. None of the private traders will invest comparable to the GDP of not the smallest country, not being sure that in the end they will get something reasonable and profitable. Neither in the case of the LHC, nor in the case of the ITER there is no such confidence - and therefore there are no private traders. So with space for the first twenty years, too, there was no such confidence, it was a pure policy. But the cost of building the first rockets and spaceports was enormous.

        Well, and your ravings about satellite navigation ... Professor, change your nickname - you are not worth it.
        1. +1
          7 June 2017 13: 42
          Quote: aiw
          The fact that a sea launch would be impossible in principle without the construction of Baikonur does not occur to you?

          And also, in principle, it was not possible without a person opening ways to make fire. Well? The sea launch was not created for $ 12 billion, but for some $ 0.5 billion. The Amazon aircraft is even cheaper, and the launch of satellites from the ICBM mine is generally worth a penny. This is the materiel.

          Quote: aiw
          1) The construction of the Large Hadron Collider 6 billion dollars, excluding existing infrastructure, is much cheaper than a spaceport.

          Like with arithmetic, I’m all right. Sea launch cost $ 583 million, which is less than $ 6 billion. By the way, private traders are built on their grandmothers. However, I have problems with logic because I can’t understand the relationship between the cost of building a cosmodrome and the cost of building a stadium, forgive the Large Hadron Collider. laughing

          Quote: aiw
          2 Fact - Market laws are harsh. None of the private traders will invest comparable to the GDP of not the smallest country, not being sure that in the end they will get something reasonable and profitable. Neither in the case of the LHC, nor in the case of the ITER there is no such confidence - and therefore there are no private traders. So with space for the first twenty years, too, there was no such confidence, it was a pure policy. But the cost of the construction of the first rockets and spaceports was enormous

          A prototype always costs more than a production model. Nevertheless, the photo I laid out above is already a serial car built by a private trader. Even the USSR itself could build a single car, and Musk could. The same Musk launches satellites on its rocket and it costs him less than government agencies, whether it be American, Russian or even Chinese. These are the facts. fellow

          Quote: aiw
          Well, and your ravings about satellite navigation ... Professor, change your nickname - you are not worth it.

          Is the transition to personality from a big mind or an overabundance of arguments? I will allow myself to remain with my opinion about navigation and at what level it was brought by private companies. I always have two satellite navigators, one in the clock, the other in the mobile phone. Both are the merit of cunning businessmen seeking profit. As long as the Russian cosmos is in the hands of the state, or as the author has expressed himself in the hands of "effective managers," (which is inseparable), then his future will be gray if at all.
          1. +1
            7 June 2017 13: 56
            Though wrapped in gold, but still a lie. Without the state task, financing and the most severe control was not, there is no and will not be the development of such equipment. Starting from the construction of a sailing fleet and the casting of guns, to the current space technology. Who do you want to cheat, my dear?
            1. 0
              7 June 2017 15: 03
              Quote: andrew42
              Though wrapped in gold, but still a lie. Without the state task, financing and the most severe control was not, there is no and will not be the development of such equipment. Starting from the construction of a sailing fleet and the casting of guns, to the current space technology. Who do you want to cheat, my dear?

              In that galaxy where I live planes are made by private owners, cars too. Medicines, medical equipment are also private traders. Roads and bridges, houses and airports are also built by private traders. The computer on which I am writing is not built by the state. The miracle is that all this flies, rides, swims and generally functions as expected. If you were to create all this state, the result would not be much better than what is written in the article. Your galaxy is probably different. And let's agree that in my galaxy (not yours) the state is less efficient, slower, more wasteful and less effective than business.
              All the best to you. Unsubscribe from comments. All that I wanted to say I said. hi
          2. aiw
            0
            7 June 2017 15: 51
            > It seems that everything is in order with arithmetic. The sea launch cost $ 583 million, less than $ 6 billion.

            But you have big problems with logic, as well as with hardware. Sea launch allows you to display a person in space for example?

            > Is the transition to personality from a big mind or an overabundance of arguments?

            No transition, just a statement of facts. The fact that you confuse the creation of a navigator and satellite constellation for the operation of this navigator, says only that you are completely not friends with logic and do not have the most basic knowledge in the matter under discussion.

            Professor, you remind me of a blonde from a joke:
            - how does the microwave work?
            - so buzzing "oooo."
  33. +1
    6 June 2017 23: 24
    Quote: Deadush
    And the Germans came up with “AK”, and Kalashnikov shamelessly stole their development. laughing
    Undoubtedly there were borrowings, as with all and always, but do not need to bring to the point of absurdity.

    Well, the stormtroopers are far from Kalash, and the stormtroopers themselves were torn from Czech developments. The Sumerians invented the wheel, and the whole world uses it. Bullshit is all who has it.
  34. +1
    7 June 2017 01: 45
    Many now say and write that the state is supposedly an inefficient owner, but why do they do all this, in whose interests is such a defamation of the state? And everything turns out to be very simple. Let me give you a small analogy:
    “A private person is an inefficient homeowner, only a business can be an effective homeowner!”
    It is easy to guess what intentions the distributors of such ideas have!
  35. +1
    7 June 2017 09: 07
    This is the degradation of the domestic bourgeois system as a whole, not capable of any real modernization, and the state of the space industry is only part of the degradation and theft. Hope people are on a straight line, the tsar, as usual, will defiantly help someone, others will give hope for the best.
  36. +4
    7 June 2017 09: 10
    There is an excellent saying: "It is more dangerous than a fool, only an" effective manager "" .... And where did you see in the leading positions in Russia specialists, and even patriots?
    Those “faces” (they cannot be called “faces”) act on me as a powerful emetic ... a bunch of toadies and thieves ...
    These garbage should be judged by military tribunals (like the Stalinist "triples"), and not the courts, and these "managers must be destroyed by tens of thousands ..... while they" rule "the country, Russia will be in the cesspool on the top of its head ..... KVACHKOVA for the presidency !!!
    1. 0
      12 June 2017 17: 08
      And where did you see specialists, and even patriots? wink
  37. +1
    7 June 2017 13: 52
    Until the "type of" efficient "managers, according to the verdicts of the courts, are undressed for their" economic accomplishments ", they will feed us breakfasts on promising space carriers, breakfasts" in financial figures, calculations, amounts, "but without flying gland. Moreover, very expensive breakfasts, at the expense of the state budget, due to the increasingly NOT free education, health care, and more and more paper social programs.
  38. +2
    7 June 2017 14: 07
    Effective tricks! Their grandfathers would be ashamed. When will our people, all of us, understand that our path, the path of the country and the people is the renewed Reds project? It’s time already.
  39. +1
    7 June 2017 14: 08
    The USSR had rights to outer space and to everything, and it was raped by the "" brothers with their historical "homeland, it is not clear where they were. And today, Russia is being divided into fairy tales about the future.
  40. 0
    7 June 2017 15: 07
    "The financial recovery program, developed and implemented by the team of" effective managers "A. V. Kalinovsky, who headed the company in the summer of 2014, successfully completes the staffing system of TsiHa."
    Everywhere the same thing. Take the aircraft, vaunted by Rosatom, the immortal Rusnano, and others. "Effective managers" are breaking up everything under peppy reports to the country's leadership on optimizing costs, import substitution, the near "heyday" of production, etc. (at the same time, do not forget to stuff their pockets, taking billions into offshore and foreign accounts). And at SPIEF 2017, one of the talk of the Grefs, Kudrins and Chubais about the need to "bend" us again, otherwise we live too long and well. And where do you, guarantors, look, are you really tired of the constant, arrogant and unprincipled lies of "effective managers", without honor and conscience. Probably....
  41. 0
    7 June 2017 20: 24
    Pisaki All Countries Unite insanity grows stronger
  42. 0
    8 June 2017 08: 41
    Quote: aiw
    > HYPERSound into space.
    I’ll tell you Adyn’s thing ... ALL rockets that launch something into space are hypersonic, not only Zenith. And it does not apply to zircon in any way at all.

    Learn mat.chast, and after already mazoli rub on fingers. The Union and Proton have different types of fuel !!!!! Why did Glushko insist on dimethylhydrazine ???
    In a word, learn the mat.chast and then get clever.
    1. aiw
      +1
      8 June 2017 11: 52
      Those. You do not know what hypersound is, but do you write something about cleverness, calluses on the fingers and materiel? Start studying the materiel from yourself, what kind of traction does an engine with a specific impulse of 2000m / s create at a fuel consumption of 0.5kg / s? Can an engine have a specific impulse greater than the outflow velocity, and if so, in which case?

      And change your nickname, you are the same Guru as I am a bishop ...
      1. +2
        8 June 2017 19: 45
        Do not scoff at the boy, the person does not really understand what hypersound is, and you are talking about specific impulse .... Yes, and the nickname of the Guru ....
        1. 0
          10 June 2017 10: 41
          Well, if a senior citizen is a boy :) and nickname bk or aiw is better than GURU laughing
          You gentlemen, couch generals have seen a rocket in your eyes,
  43. +1
    8 June 2017 14: 40
    Damned liberals. They stole the solder, thwarted the Proton launches, for 20 years they developed a rocket that does not fly and will not fly, for 15 years they have not been able to finish building the Science module for the ISS, threw some filings into the fuel system, built a cosmodrome from which there is nothing to launch, and even they threw the workers for a salary, and now they started making another rocket - again, give me the money. Oh, these liberals. laughing
  44. 0
    8 June 2017 22: 35
    Quote: Alex_59
    What a twist! And the Jews are essentially Arabs!
    It is necessary to have a bite.

    5 with a plus.
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. 0
    9 June 2017 19: 49
    Whoever has seen these specialists, who are leaving somewhere, somewhere, no specialists are needed for production. Only effective managers are needed, and we have managers, so everything is in order.
  47. 0
    9 June 2017 20: 38
    The foundations of the failures of the rocket and space industry were laid down by the Royal. For new successes, it is necessary to disperse all the old-timers, and rebuild the industry using new developments and technologies so that Lada Kalina doesn’t work out, and we are talking about veterans with aspiration, and look at the young cadres with contempt. But top managers are rubbing Putin and Rogozin that the old cadres are leaving, and this is the reason for the failures, although veterans can no longer convey experience, but only insanity.
  48. 0
    10 June 2017 10: 25
    Quote: aiw
    Those. You do not know what hypersound is, but do you write something about cleverness, calluses on the fingers and materiel? Start studying the materiel from yourself, what kind of traction does an engine with a specific impulse of 2000m / s create at a fuel consumption of 0.5kg / s? Can an engine have a specific impulse greater than the outflow velocity, and if so, in which case?
    And change your nickname, you are the same Guru as I am a bishop ...


    How tired of you already :(
    I explain on the fingers for the especially smart. Sitting to calculate the specific gravity is neither a desire nor a point.
    I talked about the problem, and you told me about specific gravity and the rate of expiration! laughing
    Tell UMNIK what problems were during the transition of aircraft to supersonic. (And fuck off already)
  49. 0
    12 June 2017 09: 48
    Professor,
    Dacians in the United States will not allow every missile to launch. Musk is a cover. Whatever you hang on to us, but for no reason NASA will not share technology with anyone. Or will you personally demonstrate this to me?
    1. 0
      12 June 2017 17: 11
      Cover or not cover, but the space launch market for the trampoline was squeezed like a candy for a small child.
  50. 0
    16 June 2017 16: 46
    It's nice to read texts without errors in the subject. A decent contingent of participants is immediately visible. Lord Save us and save us. Otherwise, we will soon become a country of supermarkets only.