Military Review

IMF approved the draft reform of the Ukrainian pension system

122
Experts from the IMF and the World Bank supported the Kiev project of pension reform, which, in order for a citizen to receive his payments in 60 years, envisages a gradual increase in the minimum insurance period to 35 years, reports TASS.

IMF approved the draft reform of the Ukrainian pension system


The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank have expressed support for the government bill to reform the pension system, which was developed by the Ministry of Social Policy of Ukraine,
says the release of the Ukrainian department.

“Pension reform is one of the key requirements of the IMF for the continuation of Ukraine’s lending program. This is due to the fact that the deficit of the Pension Fund in the country has already reached about 140 billion hryvnia ($ 5,4 billion) and threatens the stability of the entire financial system, ”the article says.

To reduce the burden in this sector, international financial institutions advised Kiev to raise the age limit for retirement. However, such an initiative caused sharp criticism in Ukrainian society.

Then the authorities, formally refusing to raise the retirement age, made a decision from 2018 to 2028 to raise the requirement for the insurance retirement of a future pensioner for one year. That is, upon completion of the reform, for retirement in 60 years, a Ukrainian must have 35 years of insurance experience. With less experience (from 15 to 25 years), you can only retire in 63 years. At the same time, there is an opportunity to “acquire” up to five years of experience by making an appropriate contribution.

And those citizens who did not manage to accumulate 15 years of insurance experience, after 1 in January 2019, will be able to receive benefits upon reaching 65 years.

Currently, there are about 12 million pensioners in Ukraine, and the required length of service to receive payments is 15 years. Men can retire at the age of 60 years, for women a transition period has been put in place to raise the retirement age from 55 to 60 years.
Photos used:
http://minprom.ua
122 comments
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  1. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 23
    +20
    In our country, in principle, the same thing, only all this will be introduced in stages. Nobody has canceled the aging of the population, we have only more opportunities for paying pensions.
    1. Pancir026
      Pancir026 4 June 2017 16: 39
      +4
      Quote: Vladimirets
      only all this will be introduced in stages

      Apologist Kudrin?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 43
        +17
        Quote: Pancir026
        Apologist Kudrin?

        No, a statement of the fact, whether I like it or not, but all this is being dragged along with us and nodding at the IMF and kaklov is not comme il faut.
        1. Thrall
          Thrall 4 June 2017 16: 48
          +1
          The population of Nenki is already preparing to walk in rags:
          High Fashion Day in Berdyansk.
          http://urod.ru/news/79302/
          Now we will show you the “Cheerful Auschwitz” collection and another fashion that has visited the long-suffering land of Berdyansk. Because you can’t leave such a wonderful place alone with a disaster called Berdyansk fashion day.
          It turned out that becoming a designer in Berdyansk is quite simple - you need to be able to cut and stitch pieces of clothing from second-hand shapes, of course, while not forgetting about the god of small-town fashion leopard. You need a lot of skill so that your “suit” does not fall apart right on the catwalk.

          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 52
            +9
            Quote: Thrall
            The population of Nenki is already preparing to walk in rags:
            High Fashion Day in Berdyansk.

            Damn, colleague, we have such freaks at every turn. Novocherkassk.

            Is it worth it to become like UkroSMI, there already is something to laugh with.
            1. AID.S
              AID.S 4 June 2017 17: 49
              +3
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Damn, colleague, we have such freaks at every turn. Novocherkassk.

              And where are the freaks in the photo? Just kids.
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 4 June 2017 17: 59
                +4
                Quote: AID.S
                And where are the freaks in the photo? Just kids.

                And in the previous photo, too, children, fashionable findings, that's all, both there and there. This is just an illustration of the presentation of information. I apologize to the Novocherkassk guys for the frivolous wording. And in front of you, too, thanks for the comment and this is not a banter.
        2. samoletil18
          samoletil18 4 June 2017 17: 06
          +13
          We are getting worse. The problem is not pension reform, as such. The trouble is that one thing yesterday, today points, tomorrow another figs knows what. The most idiotic decision, payments by the employer. Does he need it? The smaller the salary, the lower the payout. payments from HIS side. The result is clear. If you are not a state monopolist, turn around with schemes.
          On the other hand, the state can guarantee a minimum, and the rest the citizen carries to the core fund himself. Or for lovers of the Chinese way, cancel pensions: the birth rate will increase significantly! On whom in old age to hope, okromya children?
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 4 June 2017 17: 12
            +7
            Quote: samoletil18
            On whom in old age to hope, okromya children?

            Oh, Andrey, they still need to be educated correctly. yes
            1. samoletil18
              samoletil18 4 June 2017 19: 08
              +2
              I can not disagree.
        3. Pancir026
          Pancir026 4 June 2017 17: 11
          +1
          Quote: Vladimirets
          but all this and we are being dragged

          I agree, Kudrin and K. are trying hard. But they are connected with the IMF.
          1. Iline
            Iline 4 June 2017 19: 46
            +5
            Our liberals want to turn everything upside down in the pension system. With an average life expectancy of men in our country at 67 years old they want to make a retirement at 65 years old. It turns out all my life to be hunched over in production so that then for two whole years I don’t deny myself anything to miserable handouts in the form of pensions. Or are everyone sure that they will grow at times? No matter how!
            On the wrong side, the guys begin. The people have nothing to do with this issue. I had to think a lot that working for the salary with which deductions to the PFR go, is less than the official subsistence minimum (greatly underestimated in real life) is this generally out of the ordinary? Hand on heart - how many employers pay wages to their employees according to gray schemes? That's it. And the fact that, from the difference between gray and white salaries, these hucksters put in their pocket, but do not invest in production, this is beyond doubt. How much money has gone offshore in recent years? That's just it ... They even came up with a tax amnesty for these grabbers, but everything quietly shut up.
            It’s just that you can write on this subject indefinitely. Here it is necessary, like Zhvanetsky’s there: maybe something is wrong in the Philharmonic?
            1. gaura
              gaura 5 June 2017 07: 17
              0
              What does the offshore have to do with it? Does any IP add money to offshore companies? Yeah, he lives curly. Another thing is that if he conducts everything cleanly, then his business will fly into the pipe. It turns out that renting a small office on 30 sq.m. this is commensurate with the payment of only one employee. Not everyone has such a profit.
              1. Iline
                Iline 5 June 2017 19: 33
                0
                We still do not have small IPs in the economy, and therefore the conversation is somewhat not about them.
                Somehow, after going to the reserve, he worked at one enterprise for 7 years. Comrade managers paid a gray salary, they didn’t really want to invest in the development of production (if they completely squeezed it, they would take the small money from the heart for repairs or modernization), it was not worth stuttering about raising salaries.
                But the "distressing" position of the enterprise did not prevent them from traveling several times a year at the expense of the plant at the expense of the plant. Allegedly at exhibitions of equipment that the enterprise did not see in the end. Buy an apartment, a car is not from among the "Zaporozhets" to the existing ones. To pay yourself, beloved ones, not at all weak bonuses, which was not supposed for ordinary workers and ITP. Well, etc.
                I do not think that if they paid full taxes to the FIU, the enterprise would have fallen economically. But managers would have to restrain their appetites. But this for them is like the end of the world.
                1. gaura
                  gaura 6 June 2017 05: 21
                  0
                  It's clear. Even private traders manage to withdraw money from business, which is delusional, because this is their personal capital. Moreover, such hand-guides as you described for this and came to provide for yourself and your children.
                  But many factories were closed up, and the share of workers at all private entrepreneurs and small LLCs is quite large, and there are no prospects for white payments, because the employee will never pay for these payments, taking into account taxes
        4. The black
          The black 4 June 2017 17: 17
          +1
          Now those from the Petka people who somehow miraculously manage to survive until retirement will be fined laughing
          1. Pirogov
            Pirogov 4 June 2017 18: 23
            +1
            Quote: Black
            Now those from the Petka people who somehow miraculously manage to survive until retirement will be fined

            Here every day sheer fines, how you live to retire correctly will already be a feat.
      2. The black
        The black 4 June 2017 17: 20
        +3
        In short, in the words of Pedalik Nickname "d
        not only everyone will survive about pensions.
        "The IMF is an old hexagonal office. If you are grabbed by a death grip, don’t turn your back. Right now, raise your retirement age, then sell off agricultural land. And gentlemen, you slaves will not do anything, because you don’t even have an idea what to do to steer at least to the level of 2013
    2. DOCTOR ZLO
      DOCTOR ZLO 4 June 2017 17: 15
      0
      Quote: Vladimirets
      In our country, in principle, the same thing, only all this will be introduced in stages. Nobody has canceled the aging of the population, we have only more opportunities for paying pensions.

      But just what will those Ukrainians who constantly work outside Ukraine do?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 4 June 2017 17: 22
        +2
        Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
        But just what will those Ukrainians who constantly work outside Ukraine do?

        Suck paw or something else, this is most likely, this is the calculation.
        Quote: Pancir026
        Kudrin and K. are trying hard, but they are connected with the IMF.

        Whoever tried, but there is an economic background. Is the number of pensioners growing? Is growing. Are there fewer able-bodied people? Smaller. There are fewer contributions to the FIU? Smaller. And the government announces a constant increase in pensions. Why? For example, I get 30tyr a month, and a year ago, and two, and the pension is indexed all the time. Why? And can this go on forever? Maybe if we are Saudi Arabia and oil prices are not falling. And at this time? You do not have to be an economist to answer obvious questions.
        1. Pancir026
          Pancir026 4 June 2017 17: 37
          +3
          [quote = Vladimir] The number of pensioners is growing? Is growing. [/ quote]
          Do you offer what? Pensioners have teeth on the shelf in the coffin and the pension at the absolute majority, miserable, and the prices?
          Probably a revelation for you, the price of housing and communal services in Moscow and, for example, in the Stavropol Territory, differ significantly, not to mention the pension.
          [quote = Vladimir] less able-bodied population? Smaller. There are fewer contributions to the FIU? Less [/ quote
          And who is to blame for it than Kudrin and K, but in general the liberal bloc? [Quote = Vladimir] Maybe if we are Saudi Arabia and oil prices are not falling. And at this time? [/ Quote]
          What at this time? We look at the schedules of hydrocarbon deliveries to the West, we see constant growth, but there is also constant growth in fuel and lubricants inside the country with a simultaneous impoverishment of the people. Http: //product.rf/analytics/research/36347-
          ekspopt-uglevodopodov-v-pepvom-polugodii-osnovnye
          -tpendy-i-postledstviya.html
          He’s talking about it. Having said that, for the first time, the WORKING population is insolvent, it’s like not kudrinomika in a pure liberal form, everything for you. Pocket for the people? Https: //ria.ru/society/20170314/1489974515
          .html
          [quote = Vladimir] No need to be an economist to answer obvious questions. [/ quote]
          No, the conservatory is rotten. In the liberal conservatory and the system, since a country with a lot of resources cannot afford to pay people really, nor to keep pensioners, but it produces packs of millionaires and billionaires during the crisis.
          It is impossible to dispute, if you do not understand, the pattern of Kudrinomics is the road to nowhere, that in the economy, and then, in providing pensions.
          The financial and economic block of the government often recalls that 36% of pensioners continue to work today. But what kind of people these are, nobody wants to find out. And these are mainly people who received early retirement benefits - police officers, northerners, and teachers. It is clear that they have earned a pension by the age of 50 and still have the strength to work.
          But this does not mean that everyone else can live up to 55 years (women) and 60 years (men) and then plow for another 5-10 years without respite ... Moreover, the mortality rate for men is much higher than for women, especially in some regions of the country. If you look at the statistics for Altai, Tuva, Yakutia, you can see that there the average life expectancy of men is only 58 years. Where else can they raise their age ?!
          And what about the youth? Where are the jobs? Well, how the mockery of the phrase about Yessentuki, the city of drivers, sellers, movers, security guards and prostitutes, survived ...
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 4 June 2017 17: 47
            +2
            Quote: Pancir026
            Do you offer what? Retired teeth on the shelf

            No, I propose to take 70% of the salary from working for a white salary, why should she, not feed the children.
            Quote: Pancir026
            Probably a revelation for you, the price of housing and communal services in Moscow and, for example, in the Stavropol Territory, differ significantly, not to mention the pension.

            Seriously? This is not the case with us at Proxima Centauri. request
            Quote: Pancir026
            And who is to blame if not Kudrin and K, but in general the liberal bloc?

            In the demographic collapse of the 90s? Yes, Kudrin clearly did not finish it. yes
            Quote: Pancir026
            And what about the youth? Where are the jobs? Well, how the mockery of the phrase about Yessentuki, the city of drivers, sellers, movers, security guards and prostitutes, survived ...

            You are tired of the slogans, honestly. Here, in VO, from the old-timers, no one can accuse me of a liberal position. In the skeptic, maybe, but in the liberal not. And here you are, with your Kudrin ... fool You grab some marker words in the comments, without going into the essence of what was written, sadly.
            1. Pancir026
              Pancir026 4 June 2017 18: 30
              +3
              Quote: Vladimirets
              No, I propose to take 70% of the salary from working for a white salary, why should she, not feed the children.

              Do you jerk? However, and so they tear, you are not in the know?
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Seriously? This is not the case with us at Proxima Centauri.

              Well, at your place on Rubles, it’s not so, in the provinces it’s like that.
              Quote: Vladimirets
              In the demographic collapse of the 90s? Yes, Kudrin clearly did not finish it.

              Again, are not the liberals to blame for the reduction of the population? From zhezh .. well, then exactly with Proxima Centauri to blame ...
              Quote: Vladimirets
              You are tired of the slogans, honestly.

              Where did the slogans see? In your imagination? Sorry, but I do not have power over your imagination — I can’t cure hallucinations from a distance. I don’t know Kashpirovsky ..
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Here, in VO, from the old-timers, no one can accuse me of a liberal position. In the skeptic, maybe, but in the liberal not.

              I don’t see skepticism. But I see a defensive posture.
              Quote: Vladimirets
              And here you are, with your Kudrin.

              And you therefore do not see point-blank that this is the spokesman for the idea of ​​pensions?
              Quote: Vladimirets
              You grab some marker words in the comments, without going into the essence of what was written, sadly.

              The essence of your comments is the question, serious, scumbling, an attempt to divert the conversation aside, that's all. So, according to the marker words. As you deigned to say. Those who justify the situation stand out clearly. Regardless of whether you like it or not .
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 4 June 2017 18: 34
                +4
                Quote: Pancir026
                The essence of your comments is to the question

                I read all your comment and did not find what to answer, demagogy is not my thing, I'm sorry. request
                1. Pancir026
                  Pancir026 4 June 2017 18: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  I read all your comment and did not find what to answer

                  Really. And what can you answer to realities? Nothing.
                  So what about demagoguery, you turn to yourself, dear "old-timer"
                  1. Vladimirets
                    Vladimirets 4 June 2017 18: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    respected "old-timer"

                    I didn’t expect a blow to the pogods; I am crying. crying
                    1. Pancir026
                      Pancir026 4 June 2017 19: 12
                      +2
                      Quote: Vladimirets
                      I didn’t expect a blow to the pogods; I am crying.

                      Damn .. offended .. drinks will this help
                      1. Vladimirets
                        Vladimirets 4 June 2017 19: 16
                        +3
                        Quote: Pancir026
                        will this help

                        Only this will help, I fill it. yes
          2. osoboye_mneniye
            osoboye_mneniye 4 June 2017 23: 18
            +1
            Not a single state in the world has been able, without resorting to large-scale export of resources, international speculation and colonial wars to seize other people's resources, to ensure a high standard of living and the absence of poverty for its citizens at the expense of taxes alone.
            A state that does not have the means of production (as the USSR possessed) will always be a beggar, and pensioners will always “survive”.
            This sad fact suggests that in our realities on the issue of pensions, any super ideas are nothing more than manipulations of illusionists.
            A relatively small exception is the relatively small and geopolitically uninteresting states (without minerals and strategically important geography). As a rule, these are non-nuclear countries - Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Holland, etc.
            Perhaps, in addition to Switzerland, which is a much more technologically advanced country compared to others, the rest are very dependent (they are constantly trying to drag them into NATO, then into the European Union, then somewhere else). But with Switzerland, not everything is going smoothly. Despite the will of the people, the Swiss government revealed the secret of bank deposits at the request of the United States (who remembers the story of offshore a few years ago).
            In general, on the issue of pensions everyone goes around the bush, but they don’t want to see and recognize the essence. The old people then the easiest way to do the extreme.
            I would have switched to a gray RFP a long time ago. But it’s a pity for pensioners .. No matter how we entertained ourselves with illusions, it’s clear that in the situation in which the country is located, our contributions somehow go away not to us, but to current pensioners. Because everything that today's pensioners earned was stolen in the 90s.
            1. Cube123
              Cube123 5 June 2017 08: 43
              +1
              Quote: osoboye_mneniye
              Not a single state in the world has been able, without resorting to large-scale export of resources, international speculation and colonial wars to seize other people's resources, to ensure a high standard of living and the absence of poverty for its citizens at the expense of taxes alone.
              A state that does not have the means of production (as the USSR possessed) will always be a beggar, and pensioners will always “survive”.

              No state in itself produces anything. Its function is redistribution. Those. it takes part from some and it gives to others. In this sense, it makes absolutely no difference whether it has the means of production or not.

              The only question is how optimally it produces this redistribution. You can "gobble up" today and starve tomorrow. You can put everything off until tomorrow and starve to death today. The optimum is somewhere in between. That’s where the details and halftones that give the state either development or find it to perish.
              1. osoboye_mneniye
                osoboye_mneniye 5 June 2017 14: 06
                0
                A state with a means of production manages not only taxes, but also profits. Agree that profit is much more money than taxes.
                Therefore, there is a difference.
                Redistribute taxes is possible and necessary. But they still will not be enough, no matter how the state expertly manipulates them. Recent history shows this very well.
        2. Cube123
          Cube123 5 June 2017 08: 21
          +1
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Quote: Pancir026
          Kudrin and K. are trying hard, but they are connected with the IMF.

          Whoever tried, but there is an economic background. Is the number of pensioners growing? Is growing. Are there fewer able-bodied people? Smaller. There are fewer contributions to the FIU? Smaller. And the government announces a constant increase in pensions.

          Kudrin is an accountant, and he does not take into account the dynamics of ongoing processes. Take a broader look at the problem. What is essentially a pension system? How is her balance considered? Roughly speaking, this is how many people of working age are needed to “feed” one pensioner. Kudrin with his proposals proceeds from the fact that this quantity is constant, but this is not so. There is an increase in labor productivity and this value is changing. If in the century before last 80% of the population had to work in agriculture to feed the country. Now, in developed countries, less than 2% of the population produces enough food to feed the country and remains for export. Growth in labor productivity is the way to increase pension coverage with a declining able-bodied population.
          Understand that raising the retirement age makes sense only with a severe shortage of workers. In our country this is not. There is high unemployment. See how hard it is to find a job after 50 years.
          There is one more point that no one wants to consider. It is no secret that most elderly people are a brake on development in modern manufacturing. Therefore, raising the retirement age inevitably leads to a slowdown in the country's development. Do we need it?
          Therefore, you need to carefully study where the optimal balance is for the given economic development of the country, and what will happen to it in the future. Kudrin does not even have any hint of this in his program.
        3. kagorta
          kagorta 5 June 2017 08: 21
          0
          A double edged sword. The later a pensioner retires, the greater is youth unemployment.
    3. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 4 June 2017 17: 35
      +5
      An alternative to this is the development of the real sector of the economy and, for starters, the establishment of a flat tax scale for individuals (now we have the richest people pay taxes many times less than the poor).
      Plus, return to the country the registration of companies from offshore companies (to start, tax all transfers to offshore companies with 25-30 percent tax).
      After that, raising the retirement age is not required.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 4 June 2017 17: 54
        +3
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        for starters, the establishment of a flat tax scale for individuals (now we have the richest people pay taxes many times less than the poor).

        For those who were in a lethargic dream: in the Russian Federation a flat scale of 13% was set for ALL. yes
        1. Astoria
          Astoria 4 June 2017 20: 00
          0
          Comrade Pushkin - "you sailed for too long"
        2. dauria
          dauria 5 June 2017 09: 12
          +1
          For those who were in a lethargic dream: in the Russian Federation a flat scale of 13% was set for ALL.


          It is surprising that Pushkin is right - the cleaning lady will not reduce her 13%, and the manufacturer, with the help of lawyers and friends in power, can easily. . The cleaning lady shows all the income, and the large entrepreneur has a bunch of relatively honest ways to attribute part of the dough to expenses. Even bathing in caviar, if desired, will become a vocational training, a mink coat - a uniform. wassat I exaggerate, but the reality is even funnier. Formally, he will pay the same 13%, but with a much smaller amount.
    4. Normal ok
      Normal ok 4 June 2017 19: 43
      +1
      Quote: Vladimirets
      In our country, in principle, the same thing, only all this will be introduced in stages. Nobody has canceled the aging of the population, we have only more opportunities for paying pensions.

      Even worse. According to the government’s project, the retirement age will be raised to 67 years.
  2. Major Yurik
    Major Yurik 4 June 2017 16: 24
    +10
    Congratulations kaklov, now their life will go in a new way! fool
  3. bouncyhunter
    bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 16: 24
    +7
    Well - does the IMF hammer another nail into the lid of the 404th coffin? And where are the cries "from there" about another overpower?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 30
      +3
      Quote: bouncyhunter
      Well - does the IMF hammer another nail into the lid of the 404th coffin?

      Pasha, hi. hi Well, what do you want, the able-bodied population works abroad, with a small birth rate, a low level of white salaries, the proportion of pensioners is growing accordingly. Why pay a pension? Moreover, an increase in the age of pensioners will not lead to anything anyway, deductions from migrant workers will not increase.
      1. Thrall
        Thrall 4 June 2017 16: 39
        +3
        Nobody has ever seen the draft pension reform in Ukraine, even in the Rada, and the IMF is already approving it. The Cabinet of Ministers publishes images of original IMF letters of approval. The freest and most independent country in Europe, eat-pound smile
        1. DOCTOR ZLO
          DOCTOR ZLO 4 June 2017 17: 18
          +2
          Quote: Thrall
          Nobody has ever seen the draft pension reform in Ukraine, even in the Rada, and the IMF is already approving it. The Cabinet of Ministers publishes images of original IMF letters of approval. The freest and most independent country in Europe, eat-pound smile

          Why the hell to take something to BP, if it is not approved by senior comrades in the IMF.
      2. bouncyhunter
        bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 17: 55
        +5
        Hello to you, Zhenya! hi Your words are all right, it’s bad that some people don’t understand ... And they continue to howl - at Muscovite. So what do you think - is that really the norm? Why be led to the overseas division of the Slavs?
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 4 June 2017 18: 52
          +3
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          And they continue to howl - Moskalyak on gilyaku

          Many continue to howl - Khokhlyak on gilyaka, and along with Azeris, Jews and others like them. It feels like the kids are commenting. It’s not necessary to laugh a lot over h. Ohl’s, all the more they themselves give a lot of reasons, but they don’t have to invent these reasons.
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          So what do you think - is that really the norm? Why be led to the overseas division of the Slavs?

          Pasha, I don’t know who, how, he served in the army and who behaved like himself, but only with an urgent, from the training center I found friends of Dagestanis (Dargins, more precisely), an Azerbaijani. Then I talked with Chechens, Belarusians, Ukrainians, and the fact that I was born in Yakutia already speaks of the attitude towards this people. I very clearly understand that my country is MULTITONIAL and MULTOCONFESSIONAL, why after the Olympics no one asks who is Khalsan Halmurzaev or Abdulrashid Sadulaev by nationality?
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 21: 55
            +4
            Zhenya, maybe I didn’t quite correctly put it. You correctly understood me in terms of the "titular" nation and second-class citizens. Well, we don’t have that, I mean both Russia and Belarus. Although this multinationality and multiconfessionality is not so pronounced in small Belarus, we live nearby. We also have people from Central Asia, Moldova, and other nationalities, but we do not consider them “strangers”.
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 4 June 2017 22: 05
              +2
              Quote: bouncyhunter
              Although this multinationality and multiconfessionality is not so pronounced in small Belarus, we live nearby. We also have people from Central Asia, Moldova, and other nationalities, but we do not consider them “strangers”.

              Pasha, we have 190 officially only peoples, all the major world religious faiths are represented, here is real tolerance, we would like to take an example from the West, and not to teach. request
              1. bouncyhunter
                bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 22: 14
                +5
                Quote: Vladimirets
                the West would take an example from us, not teach.

                But who is arguing? That's just these tricks do not know how differently. Well: we are savages, and they are the basis of civilization. Ugh!
                1. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 4 June 2017 22: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: bouncyhunter
                  How: we are savages

                  Well, with the Trinity. drinks
                  1. bouncyhunter
                    bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 22: 32
                    +4
                    Mutually, friend! drinks
    2. Lukich
      Lukich 4 June 2017 16: 39
      +2
      Quote: bouncyhunter
      And where are the cries "from there" about another overpower?

      and it’s not yet reached them. they are told something completely different
    3. Lelek
      Lelek 4 June 2017 17: 51
      +2
      Quote: bouncyhunter
      Does the IMF inject another nail into the lid of the 404th coffin?


      Hi Paul.
      Why not? After all, it’s easier for the patient every day - he breathes less often and hardly moves. And the shallow neighbors help more and more actively. The IMF now has one problem with the Ruin: will the disease recover the debts or, as always, will poher and forgive?
      1. bouncyhunter
        bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 18: 07
        +5
        Lion my respect hi You will correct me, if I am mistaken - I will never understand this savagery, stupidity and stupidity ...
        1. Lelek
          Lelek 4 June 2017 18: 15
          +2
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter


          Pavel, at the very head is a sirkul. It is beyond the power of a normal person to understand - only on the "kanepachikovoy" they will decrypt. bully
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 4 June 2017 18: 27
            +5
            Quote: Lelek
            It is beyond the power of a normal person to understand - only on the "kanepachikovoy" they will decrypt.

            It seems like it’s better not to rack our brains. We will remain at our own thoughts.
  4. moskowit
    moskowit 4 June 2017 16: 31
    +3
    We would have to deal with our own. Before discussing others. "The logs are not visible in my eye ....."
    1. cost
      cost 4 June 2017 16: 42
      +2
      So let's look at Ukraine, Nikolai Ivanovich. What will they do. On the mistakes of others, we will try to figure out the need to increase retirement periods
      1. moskowit
        moskowit 4 June 2017 16: 52
        +1
        Crest saying pobachimo ....
        1. NIKNN
          NIKNN 4 June 2017 17: 32
          +2
          Quote: moskowit
          Crest saying pobachimo ....

          Yes Ukrainians is not an indicator. I don’t understand one thing, what kind of IMF is it that everywhere it only approves (and even imposes) the worsening of the life of the population? How did you live without deterioration ...? And now, what happened, that everyone needs to be driven into the ass ..? Because the IMF will not give loans? So they are not needed for example for us !!! And what does IMF loans mean? For the purchase of food (so that the type of population survives)? And what doesn’t it grow and produce in our country (or in the same Ukraine)? The oligarchs feed on these loans, that's all ... request
          1. moskowit
            moskowit 4 June 2017 17: 37
            +2
            A colleague, dear, this is such a saying ... Have you not heard before? ... ???
            1. NIKNN
              NIKNN 4 June 2017 17: 42
              +2
              Quote: moskowit
              A colleague, dear, this is such a saying ... Have you not heard before? ... ???

              Yes, with experience of my age, I heard and even saw everything. Only the fact that Ukraine is today an extreme country which is driven from (and so on in the pope) even deeper ... because it won’t come out like that. The same IMF has already given it loans ... It seems that Ukraine is already all owned by the IMF. Or a little more left. And the IMF’s policy is understandable and who is the boss too ... But with the policies of the governments .... here, on this verge, all the orange, pink, etc. revolution ...
              1. moskowit
                moskowit 4 June 2017 17: 55
                +1
                Dear colleague, a proverb, there is a proverb, and it (a proverb or proverb) simply characterizes some kind of action or event ..... Agree, you will not take the literally well-known proverb "Language will bring to Kiev" ....
                1. NIKNN
                  NIKNN 4 June 2017 17: 57
                  +2
                  I agree with the saying, and the reasoning on the topic advanced in the title of the article ... I understand you, emotions subsided and I understood ... smile
                  1. moskowit
                    moskowit 4 June 2017 18: 09
                    +1
                    Well, for mutual understanding! drinks
                    1. NIKNN
                      NIKNN 4 June 2017 18: 22
                      +2
                      Quote: moskowit
                      Well, for mutual understanding! drinks

                      drinks hi
      2. 210ox
        210ox 4 June 2017 17: 13
        +2
        Unfortunately, we do not learn from the mistakes of others, and often (our government) repeats them like a parrot, looking in the mouth with this IMF and others like them ..
        Quote: Rich
        So let's look at Ukraine, Nikolai Ivanovich. What will they do. On the mistakes of others, we will try to figure out the need to increase retirement periods
        1. moskowit
          moskowit 4 June 2017 18: 07
          +2
          And by and large, there’s nothing to disappear! How many people work in the manufacturing sector? Eight million ... Who creates a marketable product? Workers sector "A", which is almost destroyed. Workers of sector "B", which actually does not work ... A huge collection of sellers, lawyers and loafers of security structures will not give anything to the GDP, but they want to consume ... That's when sane people add the whole legion to them all, from the excessively overgrown bureaucracy will be sent to strengthen the national economy ... Maybe it will be possible to talk about progress ...
  5. 23424636
    23424636 4 June 2017 16: 35
    +4
    what the IMF is now imposing on Ukraine has already been partially implemented by former Prime Minister Azarov, who hastily transferred the insurance period from 5 to 15 years to the impudent one without a transition period. Now this exile whines that they didn’t understand him, Yanukovych should haven’t taken him at all, for he had done things for 3 years, he gave the main thing to the oligarchs and the president the town-forming plants of Gorlovka and Mariupol, and when Yanukovych came to the Donbass for help It was adopted as a Lviv Lviv. Azarov is no better and perhaps more flawed for the common people of Ukraine and the Donbass than any of the current idiots in power
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 38
      +7
      Quote: 23424636
      who hastily transferred to the impudent one without a transition period the insurance period from 5 to 15 years.

      Maybe this is normal? If I pick my nose all my life, then do I have to pay pension from horseradish?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 June 2017 16: 46
        +3
        Quote: Vladimirets
        ? If I pick my nose all my life, then do I have to pay pension from horseradish?

        That's it ... With what fright will they pay me a pension if I collected half the life of ZIL? I don’t have a pension. And no voucher ... I drank it ...
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 49
          +5
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          if I collected half the life of ZIL?

          Did you collect them at night? For a bottle? Or is it still labor? wink
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          And no voucher.

          And I don’t have, in the "Selenga" died.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 4 June 2017 16: 56
            +2
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Did you collect them at night?

            No, however. For a salary. And very well received. For some vacation they could hit the road to Paris.
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 4 June 2017 16: 57
              +1
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              No, however. For a salary. And very well received. For some vacation they could hit the road to Paris.

              So what's the problem with retirement?
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 4 June 2017 17: 04
                +2
                Quote: Vladimirets
                So what's the problem with retirement?

                The problem is that I didn’t finish the Year Two before retirement. Can you tell me what to do? recourse
                1. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 4 June 2017 17: 11
                  +2
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  The problem is that I didn’t finish the Year Two before retirement. Can you tell me what to do?

                  Somewhere to finalize until retirement is not an option?
        2. DOCTOR ZLO
          DOCTOR ZLO 4 June 2017 17: 20
          +1
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Vladimirets
          ? If I pick my nose all my life, then do I have to pay pension from horseradish?

          That's it ... With what fright will they pay me a pension if I collected half the life of ZIL? I don’t have a pension. And no voucher ... I drank it ...

          In which building did they work at ZIL and in what years?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 5 June 2017 03: 08
            +2
            Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
            In which building did they work at ZIL and in what years?

            He worked at the ZIL branch. NARZ, if it tells you something.
            1. DOCTOR ZLO
              DOCTOR ZLO 5 June 2017 03: 15
              +1
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
              In which building did they work at ZIL and in what years?

              He worked at the ZIL branch. NARZ, if it tells you something.

              Not. I in the New Kuzovnoy practice passed 93-94 gg while studying at the IAC.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 5 June 2017 03: 18
                +2
                Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                No.

                Novomoskovsky car repair plant. Service workshop. hi
      2. 23424636
        23424636 4 June 2017 17: 19
        +1
        maybe you were picking your nose. but we didn’t pull and mechanical engineering as we could, but the fact that when the garbage went for privatization in 97 (Azarov was then watching Kuchma’s dough for flows) at defense facilities and the whole manager, workshop and department department were fired and allowed on the stalls only to live. And this is the whole Donbass. Where Yanukovych restructured (closed) the mines in 98-99, depriving the mining villages of their earnings, taking the whole mining dynasties downwind. The CIA first looted for the closure of strategic facilities without the right of restoration, and this was widespread, but the east still held on like the idiots on the spinner such as the merchant Shcherban or the head of the Yenukovych motor depot Yanukovych, or his accomplice, master of the ore yard of the Kramatorsk-Bliznyuk factory .
      3. moskowit
        moskowit 4 June 2017 18: 32
        +1
        Social, my friend, social ... Which is often higher than that of nurses, janitors, secretaries, clerks, cultural workers, libraries .... who spent 25-30 years with a salary of 85-110 rubles at a time when they gave their forces to the State .. And the current authorities considered their work worthless, giving retirement less than those who "sat" all their lives or who did not do any shit .....
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 4 June 2017 19: 07
          +1
          Quote: moskowit
          Which is often higher than that of nurses, janitors, secretaries, clerks, cultural workers, libraries .... who worked 25-30 years with a salary of 85-110 rubles at a time when they gave their strength to the State.

          My grandmother worked all my life on the collective farm, mainly for workdays, and as a result, she received a pension less than the neighbor who sold beer, so the word "justice" was not born yesterday, by the way, my grandmother was born in 1911, those pension under the Union received.
  6. ISSIDOR
    ISSIDOR 4 June 2017 16: 55
    0
    Work abroad is not included in the length of service?
  7. 01-02-2000
    01-02-2000 4 June 2017 17: 02
    +1
    Quote: Vladimirets

    And I don’t have, in the "Selenga" died.

    mnu fellow countrymen are “cool”: the Russian house of the Selenga, Rosich ...
    one thing pleases, my former school history teacher created "The Gardens of the Bottom." He somehow rehabilitated fellow countrymen.
  8. alibabaewitch.vasilij2018
    alibabaewitch.vasilij2018 4 June 2017 17: 08
    +6
    Actually, I thought it was a Military Review site.) and not a pension fund.
    1. DOCTOR ZLO
      DOCTOR ZLO 4 June 2017 17: 22
      +2
      Quote: alibabaewitch.vasilij2018
      Actually, I thought it was a Military Review site.) and not a pension fund.

      The topic is connected with Ukraine, then everything is in a bundle ...
  9. yuriy55
    yuriy55 4 June 2017 17: 16
    +4
    I'm more concerned about the IMF’s approval of the preconditions for Kudrin’s pension changes ... And Ukraine has these projects ... Do not reapprove ... belay
  10. samarin1969
    samarin1969 4 June 2017 17: 28
    0
    I hope that Groysman-Medvedev’s pension sufferings will end the analogy of the “RF” policy and Kiev ...
    1. Banishing liberoids
      Banishing liberoids 4 June 2017 17: 52
      +1
      Samarin1969 -You can hope so if Medvedev will resign tomorrow ...
  11. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 4 June 2017 17: 50
    +1
    It seems to be better here, we take the worst from the West, and we impose on the people of Russia the principle of work of the government.
  12. sabakina
    sabakina 4 June 2017 17: 51
    +3
    I don’t know how in Ukrainian, but now the devil himself will not understand the campaign in our pension fund. Either points, then shmalls, then urgently transfer the funded part, or else it will burn out, then cancel (I transferred mine to sber, now I think, if I live to be 60, will I find this funded part?). And if they increase their age, then I will no longer need a pension. Some will go to the state, some will be collected ...
  13. alexhol
    alexhol 4 June 2017 17: 56
    0
    In Belarus, in principle, a similar situation. Every year, an increase of six months. Men are 63, women are 58. Military are 48. Without any IMF. You will have the same thing in Russia after the elections. So, it’s not worth hysteria, but rather postponed for old age. Not for myself, it’s left for the children, but it’s better not to play gambling with the state (pension funds and other MMMs).
  14. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 4 June 2017 17: 57
    0
    There, the next percent Vnakraina needs to be repaid, so that "approvals" were guaranteed, otherwise - default. Everything is so thin there.
    And as for the pension reform in Russia, we won’t go anywhere. Only if oil - 100 each, but for our economy, which has just begun to work, it will be like a knife in the liver.
  15. Antiprogressor
    Antiprogressor 4 June 2017 19: 00
    +1
    I do not see the difference from the Russian Federation. Since 1915, we have introduced a point system that directly depends on the length of service. I won. I have 38 years.
    Wife - lost, she had 38 years at retirement! Pension - 6500 rubles and this is with the "Honored Worker of this industry!" - awarded to 15-29 employees per year.
    Now, if she left in 1915 ... would receive 12-15 thousand.
    Now more about the points. With a total score of less than 21-23, the retirement age begins to shift.
    And so you can move up to 65 years. Yes, and the pension will be small - one point on 01.04.2017/78/58 - 4800 p. XNUMX cop. plus guaranteed payment of just over XNUMX p.
    1. Svarog51
      Svarog51 5 June 2017 03: 57
      +9
      С 1915 years we introduced a ball system

      Now, if she went to 1915 году

      Alexander, hi What historical period are you considering? XXI century "in the yard. Still, probably the year 2015 is that?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 5 June 2017 04: 17
        +2
        Quote: Svarog51
        Still, probably the 2015 year then?

        Well, you never know ... recourse Can he have Zhinka a hundred and two years in retirement. Our prime ranged money for her to look for. laughing
        1. Svarog51
          Svarog51 5 June 2017 05: 01
          +11
          Good morning, Volodya. hi Maybe you're right, then certainly the FIU will go bankrupt. good
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 5 June 2017 05: 12
            +2
            Quote: Svarog51
            The FIU will go bankrupt.

            Yes, well, nafig. I’ve got my dad’s salary under 250 re all his life, and his pension - 11tysch. Is it a lot, is it not enough? Judging by the minimum wage, it’s a lot, but according to the salaries of the chosen people, it’s not enough, probably ... sad
            1. Svarog51
              Svarog51 5 June 2017 05: 42
              +11
              Yes, I'm not talking about that. And about
              Can he have Zhinka a hundred and two years in retirement.
              If she is 102 years old in retirement, and has worked 55, then she is now getting 157. No money will be enough for pensioners to pay pension so much time. recourse And your father, of course, receives little. To put on his pension elected deputies, and give him their "modest" salary instead of a pension. It would be fairer.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 5 June 2017 05: 59
                +2
                Quote: Svarog51
                If she retired 102 of the year, and worked 55, then now she gets 157.

                Look. Any Rockefellers will be envious. fellow
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 5 June 2017 06: 09
                  +11
                  Holy, holy
                  Any Rockefellers will be envious.
                  God forbid that these bloodsuckers could live so much. Let them envy, but die like everyone else. wassat
      2. Antiprogressor
        Antiprogressor 5 June 2017 08: 26
        +1
        Well, of course! Five decades of life in the 20th century affect
        1. Svarog51
          Svarog51 5 June 2017 09: 29
          +9
          Well, of course! Five decades of life in the 20th century affect

          Yes, plus the Trinity was yesterday, then it’s understandable, you can mix it up. wink drinks hi
  16. Lesorub
    Lesorub 4 June 2017 19: 02
    +2
    Forgot the Soviet Union with its social norms and standards, in the "New" formed "Countries" (after the collapse), the majority of the pensioners do not need anyone, Bio-resource should work for oligarchic elites! Ukraine, under the dictation of the IMF, is becoming more and more independent every year!
  17. Antiprogressor
    Antiprogressor 4 June 2017 19: 02
    0
    Quote: alexhol
    Without any IMF

    This is disguised. With all sorts, with all sorts ...
    1. alexhol
      alexhol 4 June 2017 19: 40
      0
      Oddly enough, partly yes. This is one of the conditions of Western creditors, but even without them it became clear that our fragile (every fourth resident) our fragile (unfortunately fragile) is simply not able to maintain. By the way, my father, a military officer, already retired until the age of 66, moreover, not as an official, but as an excavator driver.
  18. Curious
    Curious 4 June 2017 19: 30
    +2
    I already wrote on the site about this person, but when I read today's comments I remembered him again.
    There lived such a German scientist and poet Sebastian Brandt. He lived for a long time, he was born in 1457. He liked to write poetry between compilation of laws. Most famous for his poetic composition in German The ship of fools.
    As he wrote, he was created "For the sake of benefit and good teaching, for exhortation and encouragement of wisdom, sanity and good morals, as well as for the eradication of stupidity, blindness and stupid prejudices and in the name of correcting the human race - with exceptional care, seriousness and prudence compiled in Basel by Sebastian Brant, a doctor of both rights. "
    One of the chapters of the poem is called "OTHERS SHAPE - FORGIVING YOURSELF."
    I allow myself to bring it fully, since it very well illustrates the desire of many commentators.
    Who sent you on a dry trail
    And he went an expensive firebox,
    Not endowed with a brain, but with a cork.
    who blasphemes
    The way that fate promises him.
    Hand to the post is nailed -
    She points the way
    But she herself on that path
    Do not go a step forever.
    To the bitch hit the pupil
    Let him get the knot out earlier
    And then he tells a friend:
    "Sorrel, they say, in your eye."
    Where the teacher is so miserable
    Alien vices accuser
    Who, infected by themselves,
    He does not see them in himself! Oh shame!
    Truly, as they say:
    “The doctor should be healed first!”
    I don’t mind giving advice
    Not knowing how to help myself.
    It was this thing that ruined
    And Gentile and Mezue,
    When one disease in those days
    They tried to deduce
    But without reaching this goal,
    They managed to leave work about her.
    Shameful things are visible
    Isn't it better from the side
    Than those who, having committed them,
    Have you reached great degrees?
    Deals earn the right
    Others teach yourself for glory.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 4 June 2017 21: 02
      +1
      Considering our pick, I take it arrogantly at my own expense, thank you, I have not read it before. hi
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 June 2017 21: 11
        +2
        Actually, not only to you, excuse me. And what, by the way, was the pick-up, do not remind me?
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 4 June 2017 21: 19
          +1
          Quote: Curious
          Actually, not only to you, excuse me.

          I'm too presumptuous, sorry.
          Quote: Curious
          And what, by the way, was the pick-up, do not remind me?

          It was like, maybe not with you, but maybe not a pick ... winked
          1. Curious
            Curious 4 June 2017 21: 34
            +2
            No, if you liked it, I can present another chapter from Brandt to you personally. Tell me only the topic.
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 4 June 2017 21: 37
              +1
              Quote: Curious
              I can present another chapter from Brandt to you personally. Tell me only the topic.

              I am an old soldier ... well, hereinafter. I won’t be vigilant and admit that I only found out about Brandt today, so there are no preferences. yes
              1. Curious
                Curious 4 June 2017 21: 47
                +3
                SHIPPING CRAFTSMAN
                Under the creak of gear, under the bursts of oars
                With artisans of all crafts
                A ship sails from the shore
                In the free expanse of water.
                Artisans these people
                Guns carry their workshops.
                But there is no respect nowadays
                To crafts Portachi alone
                And crooks-charlatans
                All - at least two and a half -
                Succeeding, oddly enough.
                Today they climb into the master:
                A lot of crafts - and now they
                Living, ignorant apprentices,
                And even those who are weeks
                They didn’t want to learn business'
                They only work for the sake of
                To the neighbor to be in the loser.
                Slightly reduced the price - at least run:
                Everyone in the city is your enemy!
                And you won’t give in - the majority
                Will support you in order
                To save prices
                And all is well
                The price of crappy work is penniless!
                But these same Shrews
                Knock down the price, negligents,
                Bad job. So for everyone:
                I’ll call il this workshop, -
                Ready to sell your products
                Everything is now cheap.
                But a bad thing is not needed
                No matter how cheap it is.
                Now everyone strives
                Give things a look
                And for any craft,
                Verily, there is no worse evil!
                I confess to you something:
                A lot with this fool
                I myself hobbled so that about them
                My true verse told.
                But I did not say much:
                In two or three days I wrote everything,
                And what is being done in a hurry,
                It cannot be successful in any way.
                Brought one muff once
                Flaunt your picture
                To the glorified Apelles.
                Giving yourself weight
                He boasted: “With such a picture
                I managed one day! "
                But Apelles responded: “Oh well?
                For the whole day - just one ?!
                According to this, I thought
                What a day you created six pieces! ”
                Mazile said so the artist ...
                Now imagine that a shoemaker
                He wore a pair of boots twenty a day:
                Would fall apart, just put on!
                How sad it would be for everyone
                Kohl gunsmith daily
                Forged a dozen blades
                Providing them with simpletons?
                They are not good from them, but only a hindrance:
                Bad weapons are no laughing matter!
                And if a carpenter is not smart
                Ceiling beam log
                It starts to get in the way - from the log
                Chips will be left alone!
                And there are many masons
                Brick laying horrible.
                Tailors have their own sins:
                Longer make stitches -
                Rather, the order is ready.
                Alas, these seams are short-lived!
                And those in print,
                All earnings per week
                Blithely drink one day!
                And then say, not sweet work -
                Both tedious and dirty:
                Ile with a trifle diverse
                Take it, or collect a book,
                And correct and compare
                And the black paint boil
                In such a frying pan, even die!
                Otherwise, however, to work
                Sorry for neither time nor sweat
                And he did it - everything is not as it should!
                But he is from Monkey City
                And there wasn’t such a miracle
                So that the efficient master was from there!
                On the same ship of fools
                There are many students
                From which the skin is being torn,
                And they pay them pennies for labor.
                But these will start anyway
                Your earnings for wine.
                Think about tomorrow - is there any sense:
                I drank everything - get into the loop, in debt.
                So they go - with the workshop workshop, But I have not gathered all!
                1. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 4 June 2017 21: 56
                  +2
                  15th century speak? And it feels like it was written yesterday. good
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 4 June 2017 22: 11
                    +2
                    I just found a link among the bookmarks, read it, there are a lot of interesting topics.
                    http://krotov.info/acts/15/3/nt_s.htm
  19. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 4 June 2017 19: 36
    +2
    If there were normal people in power, and not moral ur @, that in Russia, that in / in Ukraine, they steal everything that is possible - and there would be an economic growth, and salaries, and pensions.
  20. APASUS
    APASUS 4 June 2017 21: 49
    +1
    Human-independent policy of the state of Ukraine received official approval of the IMF. The state once again confirmed at the highest level, the money was stolen and he did not care about the country's population, and the IMF once again - the money does not smell!
  21. SergeBS
    SergeBS 4 June 2017 22: 08
    +1
    And the next paragraph will be that the seniority is counted only with "non-fallowment". And here it is happiness: there are no pensioners in 404 (with a pension, not a social contribution to the “dependent”)! Either "for 63" - get a handout, or "the length of service is wrong" - "worked for Muscovites, and not for non-relevance." When did 404 become “independent" there - sort of in 1991? Well, and experience - MAXIMUM 26 years.
    Everything is quite clear - “why keep the old slaves, let them die themselves, we just won’t feed them. They can’t work either as loaders, plumbers, or road builders. No young jumpers will plow and die at 40-50 years old. After NEXT amendments, such as "seniority is considered only for the indigenous population," at the place of residence. "
  22. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 5 June 2017 07: 18
    0
    Quote: Normal ok
    Quote: Vladimirets
    In our country, in principle, the same thing, only all this will be introduced in stages. Nobody has canceled the aging of the population, we have only more opportunities for paying pensions.

    Even worse. According to the government’s project, the retirement age will be raised to 67 years.

    Much worse !!!!!!! I read, I read, and I didn’t find the ETO !!!!!! Maybe it will happen further? We have it like this: ““ I’ll freeze my pension for 20 years. ”“ What is the point of people working in general? NOW? Should a robbery be expected? Salaries are supposed to be increased, but there is no pension?! And it is supposed to reach pre-crisis rates who knows when !!!! Like in 2022 And mind you, this Ministry of Economic Development says! .... What kind of development is this?. And those officials themselves intend to work to death, protecting themselves by law and other calculation of bureaucratic pensions. !!!!!!
  23. nivander
    nivander 5 June 2017 08: 43
    0
    whatever you like, but 2 + 2 will be 5
  24. Dark_Filin
    Dark_Filin 5 June 2017 12: 48
    0
    The IMF is doing everything right - it reduces the costs of Americans to support Ukraine. Of course, the first thing that is cut at the same time is the social network. Well, who cares about the birth rate in Ukraine, education and medicine for its residents? The United States is cutting Medicaid for its own, but here are some Ukrainians.
  25. tacet
    tacet 5 June 2017 15: 27
    0
    “Every nation deserves the rulers whom it chooses” (Bernard Shaw)