Announced new anti-tank missile Spike LR II (Israel)

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On the eve of the exhibition of weapons and military equipment traditionally come out announcements of new models of a particular class. A few days ago the Israeli company Raphael told about its new development in the field of guided missile weapons. The prospective model is designed to complement the existing complexes of the Spike family and increase the potential of the relevant units of the army. Full demonstration of the new weapons, however, has not yet been carried out. Aerospace show at Le Bourget will be the venue for the “premiere”.

The first information about a promising anti-tank guided missile called the Spike LR II was published on 29 in May. Until that day, no data on the new family project had been disclosed in open sources. According to published information, the new rocket is a further development of existing samples, which differs from its predecessors in the basic equipment and equipment. As a result, a noticeable increase in basic technical and combat characteristics is achieved. Obtaining higher characteristics made it possible to attribute the new missile to the fifth generation of ATGM.



The new version of the rocket was named Spike LR II - Long Range II (“Long range, 2 model”). In connection with the emergence of a new ammunition, the existing basic modification should now bear the updated designation Spike LR I. In addition, the promising product received the additional name “Gil-2”, which also takes into account the “traditions” of the name of the family complexes.

Announced new anti-tank missile Spike LR II (Israel)


According to official data, the prospective guided missile must retain all the main features and functions envisaged in previous family projects. The Spike LR II product can be used with all available launchers designed to use Spike MR and Spike LR missiles. Thanks to this rocket will be able to carry land vehicles, ships and aircraft equipped with serial launchers.

The Spike MK and Spike LR missile systems of the two versions can be used in different configurations. So, for infantry, an option is offered on a tripod-mounted machine equipped with the necessary sighting devices and firing controls. A similar launcher can be used on self-propelled platforms of various types. There are also remote-controlled installations offered for deployment in areas with increased enemy activity. The available launch systems are compatible not only with land, but also with marine equipment. There are also specialized launchers offered for use by combat helicopters.

For the use of new-type missiles, existing launchers do not need to be redesigned. All improvements of these devices concern only the software. Thus, before using the Spike LR II rocket, the troops will only need to update the firmware of the units, which will take a minimum time.

Compatibility of the new rocket with existing launchers was obtained, first of all, through the use of the technical aspect developed in the framework of previous projects of the family. The Spike LR II missile, like its predecessors, is equipped with a cylindrical body of large elongation with a rounded head fairing. In the central and tail parts of the hull there are small compartments to accommodate X-shaped wings and rudders that are laid out in flight.

The layout of the rocket, apparently, also did not undergo significant changes. Recall that in the head of the previous Spike missiles, the homing head was placed together with the main part of the electronics of the control systems. Directly behind it was the leading charge of the tandem warhead (when using armor-piercing equipment), behind which was a solid-fuel motor. The central compartment contained part of the instrumentation, and behind it was the main shaped charge. The tail section was used for installing steering gears, a starting engine and a reel with a remote control cable.

The main innovation of the project Spike LR II is a new homing head with enhanced characteristics. Especially for the promising ATGM, a new opto-electronic homing head with two detection channels was created. The structure of the GOS uses an uncooled infrared radiation sensor and a color image camera, which gives an HD picture. Due to the refusal of the cylinder for the refrigerant and all other pipelines, it was possible to reduce the size of the infrared homing system, as well as reduce the mass of the rocket as a whole, while maintaining acceptable performance.

The Spike LR II missile received signal processing facilities with which it is able to monitor various types of targets, including under difficult conditions. As stated, in the video signal processing system, elements of artificial intelligence were used, with the help of which the tracking of low-contrast or disappearing objects is ensured. Also declared the possibility of overcoming the active and dynamic protection of armored vehicles with the help of some control algorithms.

The rocket control system has also undergone significant changes. Previous Spike products have used fiber optic cable unrolled from a reel in the tail of a rocket to transfer data. In the new project Spike LR II, this data transfer option was refused. Now information is exchanged via a secure radio channel. At the same time, the possibility of transmitting the video signal to the operator’s console and receiving commands during the flight is retained. The airborne missile control system can now receive target designation not only from the respective carrier media, but also from the tactical control system, which simplifies and speeds up the preparation for the shot.



For a new type of missile, two combat units for various purposes, Armor-piercing and multipurpose, were developed. The first is based on a tandem scheme and includes two separated cumulative charges of different power. With its help, a rocket can hit enemy armored vehicles, including those equipped with dynamic defense. It is argued that the armor penetration of the new missile 30% exceeds its predecessors. Multipurpose warhead also has a tandem architecture, but it is designed to solve other problems. Thus, in the high-explosive mode, a simultaneous detonation of both charges is carried out, leading to the fragmentation of fragments. There is also a concrete mode, in which the leading charge punches up to 20 cm of reinforced concrete, after which the main charge gets inside the attacked object and explodes.

In terms of its dimensions, the new Spike LR II rocket is no different from previous products of the family. The total length of the rocket with the transport and launch container - 1,67 m, diameter - 170 mm. At the same time managed to achieve some reduction in starting mass. Thus, the Spike LR I serial missile weighed 14 kg, while the new ammunition weighs only 12,7 kg.

Despite the weight loss, a new type of Spike rocket shows higher flight data. When using a Spike LR II ATGM with a ground-based launcher, the firing range reaches 5,5 km. For comparison, the long-range missile of the first version flew only 4 km. Aviation the carrier platform can significantly increase maximum flight performance. So, the missile flight range when launched from a helicopter is declared at 10 km.



At the moment, the project of a promising anti-tank missile is under development. The company "Raphael" has already presented basic information about the product and its main features, as well as published three-dimensional images of the rocket. Soon the next aerospace salon Le Bourget is to be held in France, during which the official "premiere" of the project will take place. Apparently, in the pavilions of the salon will show mockups of new weapons.

Project development, testing and other work will continue for a certain time. According to a recent press release from the development company, the Spike LR II ATGM will reach a state of alert at the end of 2018. After that, will be able to start mass production. In addition, at the same time, the first supply contracts may appear.

As follows from the published data, a new type of anti-tank missile will be able to enter into service with the Israel Defense Forces or other countries already operating Spike line-ups. At the same time, the introduction and assimilation of a new weapon with enhanced characteristics will be relatively simple and will not require much effort. One of the goals of the new project was to ensure the full compatibility of the upgraded rocket and existing launchers.

For obvious reasons, the exact prospects of the new Israeli-launched missile remain unknown. Nevertheless, already now it is possible to make some predictions claiming to be reliable. There is every reason to expect that the Spike LR II ATGM will indeed go into series and enter service with various armies. The starting customer is likely to be the Israeli armed forces. The developer country exploits all the Spike family complexes in different versions, and therefore the new product of this line is quite capable of fitting into the Israeli army's armament of armaments with the corresponding advantages for its combat potential.

The appearance of new export contracts looks very likely. As of the end of last year, Raphael delivered around 27 thousand Spike missiles of all 26 modifications to foreign armies. Thus, at least, some of the foreign customers may show interest in a new missile weapon and acquire it. Finally, we should not exclude the possibility of agreements with completely new customers. According to its characteristics, the Spike LR II rocket exceeds a significant number of foreign analogues, and therefore can attract the attention of potential buyers.

The Spike missile systems have been in service with the Israel Defense Forces since the early eighties. Since that time, several new models and modifications of weapons based on similar solutions and using the same principles of operation have been created. Despite the solid age of the family, the development of such technology continues. Just a few days ago, Raphael first spoke about the new version of the ATGM with advanced features. Soon, this weapon should become an exhibit of the military-technical exhibition, and in the foreseeable future will have the opportunity to enter into service with those or other armies.


On the materials of the sites:
http://janes.com/
http://israeldefense.co.il/
http://rafael.co.il/
http://globalsecurity.org/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
126 comments
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  1. 0
    1 June 2017 06: 17
    A serious weapon. Although I aim from my shoulder at a target at a distance of 5.5 km - I can’t imagine how. Through no optics.
    1. +1
      1 June 2017 06: 27
      in the same place it seems about the installation, and not the shoulder
      When using a Spike LR II ATGM with a ground-based launcher, the firing range reaches 5,5 km.

      and yes, good characteristics. I wonder how much it costs compared to ours.
      1. +14
        1 June 2017 14: 41
        Spike has already proven itself in battle. If the new version has even better features, then I congratulate Israeli friends in advance! hi hi
    2. +4
      1 June 2017 06: 40
      From the shoulder is Spike SR another modification range up to 1,5 km
    3. +9
      1 June 2017 08: 44
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      A serious weapon. Although I aim from my shoulder at a target at a distance of 5.5 km - I can’t imagine how. Through no optics.

      The photo belongs to the lightest version of the SR, which goes to replace granotometr. And LR are launched from the machine.
    4. Maz
      +8
      1 June 2017 16: 48
      A full-fledged demonstration of a new weapon, however, has not yet been carried out ..... well, I can also tell you a lot of interesting data about my new laser slingshot, it hits farther than my previous stone thrower, pierces longer, hits more often, flies faster, cheaper in production and it maybe foreign customers will buy .... besides, it’s in the arsenal of my personal army from the watchdog Abrek and the cat Mary, who, as a rule, carry out target designation and scout targets, highlighting them at night. laughing
      1. +8
        1 June 2017 17: 19
        Quote: Maz
        A full-fledged demonstration of the new weapon, however, has not yet been conducted .....

        Maz, you are the last person to whom we will prove anything. tongue
        1. Maz
          +7
          1 June 2017 17: 22
          In 2009, from 244 to 288 Spike missiles and 24 launchers were purchased by Peru (the total amount of the contract was from 48 to 55.8 million dollars). During the test firing, held on April 16, 2010, two rockets were fired. The first was shot during the day and successfully hit the target. The second one was released at night in front of a large number of high-ranking guests and journalists, but the marching engine did not start and the rocket fell about fifty meters from people, but did not explode [1]. The materials of the subsequent heated discussion of the incident “give reason to believe that the interests of the Spike manufacturer were actively lobbied by corrupt Peruvian officials and businessmen, whose ultimate goal is $ 650 million allocated for the implementation of a large-scale program to modernize the Armed Forces of Peru.” The scandal resulted in the visit of the head of the Rafael company to Lima in early May 2010 in order to personally explain to the customer regarding the causes of the incident, which he called “unforeseen accident”. He previously said that such “... ATGMs were delivered to 17 armies of the world, including the Israeli army; more than 1800 rockets were fired, the reliability level is about 95%. ” After the meeting, the Ministry of Defense and the army command of Peru “decided to require the supplier to exchange the delivered missiles for newer ones.” [18]

          I won’t even try to understand why the head of the concern flew to Peru, so it’s clear - he gave it to someone
          1. 0
            22 December 2017 01: 35
            At Jane's today I read that the Romanians were testing the new SPIKE-ER the other day.
            Shot day and night at moving targets,
            used IR mode and tactical retargeting.
            10 shots - 10 hits.
            Distance - up to 8 km
    5. +2
      1 June 2017 21: 34
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Although I aim from my shoulder at a target at a distance of 5.5 km - I can’t imagine how.


      on the picture

      not even Spike LR (much less Spike LR II)
      Author: Ryabov Kirill simply does not distinguish (however, like 99% of journalisms laughing squeezed this news)
      In the photo he has Spike-SR


      the version with a short-range missile (from 50 to 1000, in later versions - 1500 m.), is used “from the shoulder” in the platoon unit. Weight 9,8 kg.


      here is Spike LR


  2. +2
    1 June 2017 06: 32
    Well done, something is still dull with the new anti-tank systems
    1. +3
      2 June 2017 00: 43
      Quote: Sergey ui
      Well done, something is still dull with the new anti-tank systems

      Yah.....
      Or maybe you are talking about the newest? about which no one had been told? feel
  3. +4
    1 June 2017 06: 52
    If the soldier in the photo is TPK 1,67 m long, then I am the pope. Something here does not fit.
    Here, I found: this is Spike SR.
    http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-spac
    e / strike / 2016 / 06 / 14 / rafael-spike-sr-anti-tank-mis
    sile / 85863524 /
  4. +3
    1 June 2017 08: 02
    Homing, this is certainly good - but the whole question is reliability and noise immunity.
    And then all this can end as for MANPADS - a simple shooting of dual-band traps can effectively “hinder” homing.
    As for artificial intelligence, the operator is definitely smarter and more effective in unusual situations.
    Developers with cooling GOOS darken something:
    The composition of the GOS uses an uncooled infrared sensor and a color camera, which produces an image in HD resolution.

    In the hot Israeli climate, the effectiveness (contrast) of such a GOS is in doubt.
    1. +6
      1 June 2017 10: 51
      Quote: Nikkola Mac
      And then all this can end as for MANPADS - a simple shooting of dual-band traps can effectively “hinder” homing.

      What trap will you shoot for a tracking video camera? There, obviously, pattern recognition is wired or operator control, it will not react to shooting
      1. +2
        1 June 2017 11: 35
        What trap will you shoot for a tracking video camera?

        If the optical range camera is an elementary smoke grenade (the main thing is to detect the launch in time - which is not so difficult given the rocket’s own rapidly moving IR radiation source).
        But here most likely we are talking about the IR range - it’s even more interesting there - you can use IR emitters ("birdhouses"). The IR infrared traps being fired towards the rocket deform the infrared signature of the target with their radiation. Do not forget that if the received high-power infrared radiation does not allow you to get an acceptable signal-to-noise value at the input, the receiver "goes blind" and the rocket remains only guided by the source of the most powerful radiation.
        KAZ is gaining more and more popularity.
        or operator control,

        That is, we get the same semi-automatic guidance, and not the principle of "shot and forget."
        In general, there are few reasons for enthusiasm so far - but you need a lot of money!
        1. +2
          1 June 2017 12: 17
          Quote: Niccola Mack

          In general, there are few reasons for enthusiasm so far - but you need a lot of money!

          So the rich, the more happy.
        2. +1
          1 June 2017 15: 06
          In the developed “Spike”, the main guidance mode is the command mode with the transmission to the operator of the image from the rocket over the air. The radio channel is elementarily suppressed by electronic warfare.

          The thickness of concrete touched, penetrated by the leading short-focus cumulative charge, which is part of the anti-personnel version of the developed "Spike" - 20 cm (interior partition, however) laughing
          1. +5
            1 June 2017 16: 28
            Quote: Operator
            In the developed “Spike”, the main guidance mode is the command mode with the transmission to the operator of the image from the rocket over the air.

            No.
            The main mode is "Shot-forgot." It is just possible to aim at the target and capture it by the GOS already in flight. And not just before launch, like the same "Javelina". In addition, there is the possibility of retargeting a rocket in flight.

            All this makes the complex tactically more flexible. Therefore, in fact, the Israelis were able to practically squeeze the Americans out of the third generation ATGM market. From India to Poland ...
            1. +2
              1 June 2017 17: 11
              At the moment, homing "Spike" - just pink dreams of the Israelis, otherwise you would not need a radio channel for transmitting images from missiles and missile commands.

              Ask the Professor: he earns his bread by developing pattern recognition algorithms - judging by the article, so far without positive results laughing
              1. +2
                1 June 2017 17: 35
                Quote: Operator
                At the moment, homing "Spike" - just pink dreams of the Israelis, otherwise you would not need a radio channel for transmitting images from missiles and missile commands.

                A radio channel or fiber optic cable at the Spike family complexes is necessary for the ability to shoot at an unobserved target. It is launched, during the flight of the rocket, the operator identifies the target, captures it and the rocket hits it without the participation of the operator.
                Spike SR and Spike MR do not have such capabilities, only "shot-forgot." Spike LR, Spike ER, Spike NLOS have this option. Moreover, for Spike NLOS this is the main mode of application.
                1. +1
                  1 June 2017 19: 03
                  Quote: Spade
                  Spike SR and Spike MR do not have such capabilities ...

                  Amendment, only SR, Spike MR is also adjustable.
                  MR and LR have the same guidance block.
                  1. +2
                    1 June 2017 20: 14
                    Quote: And Us Rat
                    Amendment, only SR, Spike MR is also adjustable.

                    The manufacturer’s website claims the opposite.
                    1. 0
                      1 June 2017 21: 05
                      Quote: Spade
                      The manufacturer’s website claims the opposite.

                      Then I agree with the manufacturer, probably the software is different for LR and MR, but the guidance unit (and he is the same) with the necessary firmware allows you to translate this function into MR.
                      Apparently 2500 is not the distance at which the change of target is required, the flight time is apparently too small. hi
                      1. +2
                        1 June 2017 21: 20
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Then I agree with the manufacturer, probably different software for LR and MR

                        Rather, there is a cable in one rocket, and not in another.
                2. 0
                  1 June 2017 19: 09
                  ATGM Spike MR is guided through fiber optic cable.

                  Spike SR is a rocket-propelled grenade with a maximum launch range of 800 meters. Its guidance on the target is carried out by a grenade launcher in direct visibility, after which a rocket-propelled grenade captures the silhouette of the target and flies in its direction. It is not able to independently recognize the purpose of the grenade.
                  1. +3
                    1 June 2017 20: 10
                    Quote: Operator
                    Spike SR is a rocket-propelled grenade with a maximum launch range of 800 meters.

                    1500 meters.
                    Quote: Operator
                    It is not able to independently recognize the purpose of the grenade.

                    For Spike SR, this is not necessary.
              2. +8
                1 June 2017 19: 10
                Quote: Operator
                At the moment, homing "Spike" - just pink dreams of the Israelis ...

                Israeli weapons developers cherish their reputation too much to sink to the pearls in the likeness of "having no equivalent in the world."
                If the developer said that there is homing, but 26 users do not refute it - then it is.


                Py.Sy. - Spike SR does not have a joystick control, how to "manually" conduct it? Shake the pipe like an iPhone in games? laughing
                1. 0
                  1 June 2017 19: 37
                  Automatic target recognition and automatic target capture (after being recognized by the operator) are two different tasks. If the latter has already been resolved, then the first is not yet.

                  Auto capture is suitable for targets within 800 meters (Spike SR). For targets within 2,5 km (Spike MR) and more, an operator needs to be connected to the aforementioned automatic capture distance by the operator - this is where fiber optic cable is used.

                  Why the hell do you need a joystick when firing from a Spike SR rocket launcher? laughing
                  1. 0
                    1 June 2017 20: 14
                    Quote: Operator
                    Auto capture suitable for targets within 800 meters (Spike SR)

                    1500 meters.
                    Quote: Operator
                    For targets within 2,5 km (Spike MR) and more, an operator needs to supply a missile to the above automatic capture distance

                    Spike MR has a more serious GSN and better optics \ IR matrix in the guidance unit.
                    Capturing a target is possible from a maximum distance - the principle of "shot and forgot" is based on this.
                    1. 0
                      1 June 2017 20: 18
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      1500 meters

                      Only 800 meters and something with a big stretch - see the dimensions of the Spike SRK.
                      1. +3
                        1 June 2017 20: 58
                        Quote: Operator
                        Only 800 meters and something with a big stretch - see the dimensions of the Spike SRK.

                        What does the dimensions have to do with it? request
                        TTX - 1500m.
                        TTX is not written from the bulldozer, TTX is certified according to test results. (we have at least) request
        3. +3
          1 June 2017 18: 57
          Quote: Nikkola Mac
          the main thing is to detect the start in time

          Key phrase! fellow
          And how is it asked, do this when there is no laser light to which the tank protection systems react?
          Panoramic a thermal imager, and even with a built-in monitoring system of infrared signatures - is not standing on any tank yet. (Such are only on ships and F-35, one large, the second expensive)
          And the radars are only on 2 tanks - T-14 (not even in the series yet), and MK-4 (AT ATGM developers).
          So ... request

          Quote: Nikkola Mac
          That is, we get the same semi-automatic guidance, and not the principle of "shot and forget."


          Both that, another, "Spike" operating modes:
          1. Pointed, shot and forgot.
          2. Pointed, shot, retargeted, forgot.
          3. Pointed, fired, brought to the goal.
          (Capture of a mechanized target can be performed both manually and by auto search / auto guidance)
          There is also the option of "blind start" or "guidance after launch", for example, through the hill behind which the tanks hid.
          1. 0
            1 June 2017 20: 19
            Quote: And Us Rat
            And how is it asked, do this when there is no laser light to which the tank protection systems react?

            Easy ... Protection systems in aviation have long been successful in this. Using UV sensors.
            1. 0
              1 June 2017 21: 10
              Quote: Spade
              Easy ... Protection systems in aviation have long been successful in this. Using UV sensors.

              I do not argue, you can cram the filling into the tank as if on a fighter, but then the price of this tank will be "fighter".
              The same AN ​​/ AAQ-37 stands as the 2 tank.
              1. 0
                1 June 2017 21: 23
                Quote: And Us Rat
                I do not argue, you can cram the filling into the tank as if on a fighter, but then the price of this tank will be "fighter".

                I would not say that the same German BMP Puma stands like a fighter. And there is a MUSS COEP with these same UV sensors.
                1. +1
                  1 June 2017 21: 29
                  The commander’s Merkavas, before being adopted by the Trophy SAZ, were equipped with masts with UV sensors for group protection of tank platoons from ATGMs.

                  UV sensors do not protect against RPGs whose solid-fuel engine only works at the start.
                2. +2
                  1 June 2017 21: 52
                  Quote: Spade
                  And there is a MUSS COEP with these same UV sensors.

                  "MUSS" runs on 70 ° vertically, that is, a dead zone is present, and can pinpoint up to 4 sources of threat. Extremely modest performance against the backdrop of aviation systems (precisely because of cost).
                  Besides - nowhere did not find data on detection range.
                  This ersatz, but useful, but far from a panacea.
                  1. 0
                    2 June 2017 09: 10
                    Quote: And Us Rat
                    "MUSS" works at 70 ° vertically, that is, a dead zone is present

                    There is no dead zone. The missile does not teleport to a point above the BMP

                    Quote: And Us Rat
                    In addition - I have not found data on the detection range anywhere.

                    This is by default classified information.
                    1. +3
                      2 June 2017 16: 59
                      Quote: Spade
                      There is no dead zone. The missile does not teleport to a point above the BMP

                      And the area in 20 ° from the top point? Or canceled geometry? fellow
                      The rocket is not teleported, the rocket can make a slide outside the MUSS coverage area and hit the top of the cump.
                      1. 0
                        3 June 2017 07: 10
                        It is geometry, most of the missile trajectory that falls into the detection zone of UV sensors. Given the low speed of the Spikes, the KOEP will have time to try to dazzle the seeker with active interference, and cover the armored object with an impenetrable aerosol curtain in case of failure
          2. 0
            2 June 2017 04: 32
            And how is it asked, do this when there is no laser light to which the tank protection systems react?

            The launch and flight of the rocket itself has a clear dynamic IR signature - which can be tracked automatically (taking into account the fact that the moving torch of the rocket engine "realizes" the Doppler effect well). The equipment is getting cheaper just before our eyes. There are certainly achievements - they are not yet in mass production.
      2. +1
        1 June 2017 12: 27
        If operator control, then this is no longer homing. In general, I liked the development. Well done. )) Especially if the declared characteristics correspond to life. One thing was confusing - how control algorithms will save the rocket if the KAZ shoots with steel buckshot from 3-4 meters or what it shoots there. I am afraid that the ATGM no longer has time to evade in this case.
        1. +5
          1 June 2017 13: 27
          Quote: Mairos
          . One thing was confusing - how control algorithms will save the rocket if KAZ shoots with steel buckshot from it with 3-4 meters or what it shoots there. I am afraid that the ATGM no longer has time to evade in this case.

          Today, besides Israel, there is not a single army with armored vehicles equipped with KAZ. And most will not appear soon.
          1. 0
            1 June 2017 13: 54
            Well, that is a given. It's just that this is a stated characteristic of the ATGM, so it became interesting to me.
          2. Maz
            +1
            1 June 2017 16: 49
            As always, your self-promotion comes first. solid buy-sell
            1. +2
              1 June 2017 17: 53
              Quote: Maz
              As always, your self-promotion comes first. solid buy-sell

              So Maz is not offered to you. What are you worried about?
            2. +4
              1 June 2017 21: 32
              Quote: Maz
              As always, your self-promotion comes first. solid buy-sell ...

              Yeah, and the pearl "has no analogues in the world", we also came up with. wassat lol
        2. +2
          1 June 2017 16: 21
          Quote: Mairos
          One thing was confusing - how control algorithms will save the rocket if KAZ shoots with steel buckshot from it with 3-4 meters or what it shoots there.

          Most likely it’s about the fact that the rocket hits the target from the “hill” strictly down. In the "dead crater" KAZ
          1. +1
            1 June 2017 17: 20
            Quote: Spade
            Quote: Mairos
            One thing was confusing - how control algorithms will save the rocket if KAZ shoots with steel buckshot from it with 3-4 meters or what it shoots there.

            Most likely it’s about the fact that the rocket hits the target from the “hill” strictly down. In the "dead crater" KAZ

            By the way, I did not even think about it. Thanks for the interesting option. good
          2. +1
            1 June 2017 18: 40
            Quote: Spade
            Most likely it’s about the fact that the rocket hits the target from the “hill” strictly down. In the "dead crater" KAZ

            There is such a letter in this word ... hi
            1. 0
              1 June 2017 20: 21
              That is, “Spike” against “Almaty” will be useless. Good luck ...
              1. +2
                1 June 2017 21: 14
                Quote: Spade
                That is, “Spike” against “Almaty” will be useless. Good luck ...

                Well, when there will be the first brigade equipped with "Armata", we will come up with something else. Where to rush?
                1. +1
                  1 June 2017 21: 32
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  Where to rush?

                  Nowhere. Spike-type low-speed rockets are an endangered species.
                  1. 0
                    1 June 2017 21: 55
                    An endangered species is any anti-tank missiles and grenades with a flight speed of up to 1000 m / s (intercepted by KAZ Afganit).

                    But as portable weapons against infantrymen, including those located behind shelters, the former ATGMs and RPGs even at 300 m / s, equipped with high-explosive, thermobaric, or concrete-piercing warheads are very much in demand (see video from Syria).

                    The only thing left is to teach optical seekers to automatically capture small targets such as firing points, ATGM calculations, grenade launchers, or, ideally, embrasures of pillboxes and bunkers.
                  2. +2
                    1 June 2017 22: 44
                    Quote: Spade
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    Where to rush?

                    Nowhere. Spike-type low-speed rockets are an endangered species.

                    They will die out only after the mass introduction of KAZ. And this is very far away.
                    1. 0
                      2 June 2017 09: 13
                      Not only KAZ. Now KOEP are able to effectively deal with this kind of guided ammunition. A low missile flight speed is very helpful in this.
                      1. +1
                        2 June 2017 16: 43
                        Quote: Spade
                        Not only KAZ. Now KOEP are able to effectively deal with this kind of guided ammunition. A low missile flight speed is very helpful in this.

                        This is a controversial and muddy topic, today KOEP is ahead, tomorrow is ATGM.
                        In this sphere, there is a palm of transfer, it is a passing pennant, and very often a passing one.
                  3. 0
                    2 June 2017 16: 46
                    Quote: Spade
                    Spike-type low-speed rockets are an endangered species.

                    Any technology today is an endangered species, as sooner or later it will be replaced by something new.
                    The whole question is - how soon?
                    So far - subsonic ATGMs are more alive than all living ones and are successfully sold.
                    1. 0
                      3 June 2017 07: 16
                      Quote: And Us Rat
                      So far - subsonic ATGMs are more alive than all living ones and are successfully sold.

                      Are "spikes" really referred to as "subsonic"? 130-180 m / s is somewhere around half the speed of sound
                      1. +1
                        6 June 2017 10: 30
                        With Subsonic this is the SUBSonic. sub = readable sab
              2. +1
                1 June 2017 21: 16
                Quote: Spade
                That is, “Spike” against “Almaty” will be useless. Good luck ...

                Pointless speculation.
                An irresistible weapon does not exist, just as there is no impenetrable defense ... request
                1. +2
                  1 June 2017 21: 31
                  I am just glad that the development of means of protection against damage to an armored object by an attack from above began before such weapons were widely used.
                  1. +1
                    1 June 2017 21: 59
                    Quote: Spade
                    I am just glad that the development of means of protection against damage to an armored object by an attack from above began before such weapons were widely used.

                    They have been working in both directions for more than a dozen years; this is not news, as it were. request
                    It’s all gone from the fleet - the maneuver of anti-ship missiles "hill", aerosol curtains. Miniaturization of systems in all its glory, from a cruiser to a tank. smile
                    1. 0
                      1 June 2017 22: 10
                      SAZ Trophy has a dead zone in the upper hemisphere - a funnel with a solution angle of 80 degrees.
          3. 0
            1 June 2017 21: 44
            Quote: Spade
            Most likely it’s about the fact that the rocket hits the target from the “hill” strictly down. In the "dead crater" KAZ

            probably maybe from the top

            but not SR

            LR exactly and so and so
    2. +1
      1 June 2017 18: 37
      Quote: Nikkola Mac
      And then all this can end as for MANPADS - a simple shooting of dual-band traps can effectively “hinder” homing.

      GOS ATGM will be "a bit" more serious than MANPADS, the diameter of the missile gilts. According to the GOS level, ATGMs are rather closer to full-fledged explosive missiles.
      And they, in turn, today do not notice IR traps point blank, due to the same recognition of contours and sensitivity to a very wide range of IR radiation.


      Quote: Nikkola Mac
      GOS Cooling Developers Darken Something
      In the hot Israeli climate, the effectiveness (contrast) of such a GOS is in doubt.


      The technology of uncooled matrices has been around for ten years, and all previous Spike models have also been using it for years.
      So, earlier GOS in the "conditions of the hot Israeli climate" worked like a clock, and a more advanced model suddenly sharply "raise doubts"? wassat laughing
      1. +1
        2 June 2017 04: 22
        GOS ATGM will be "a bit" more serious than MANPADS, the diameter of the missile gilts.

        You forget that the infrared trap for MANPADS does not deform the signature of the target - it works on the principle of "here you have more powerful radiation - direct it at him" and as a rule it immediately leaves the directing line of the missile. That is, implementing the principle of filtering targets and traps is quite simple. It’s more difficult with a tank - its speed can allow it to deform its signature, or just make the signal-to-noise ratio at the input of the thermal imager (already low) insufficient for the matrix to work.
        Uncooled matrix technology has been around for a dozen years,

        Physical principles are nowhere to be found. And they say that you need a certain signal-to-noise ratio at the input of the signal processor from the matrix (and cooling, this ratio increases dramatically) - either you need to have a powerful signal level at the input or the contrast of the target and the surrounding landscape - which does not depend on the ATRA complex anymore .
        I would like to remind you that the Yusovites had very big problems in Afghanistan with both Red Eye and the more advanced Stinger for this reason (not only about the Soviet IR traps).
        And I also wanted to remind you that with the large-scale use of the "Javelins" and "Spikes", the search for means of dealing with them is also sharply intensified.
        1. +1
          2 June 2017 16: 39
          Quote: Nikkola Mac
          I would like to remind you that the Yusovites had very big problems in Afghanistan with both Red Eye and the more advanced Stinger for this reason (not only about the Soviet IR traps).

          That was 30 years ago (THIRTY KARL!), In the field of the technological process - this is the era of mamants. fellow
          Quote: Niccola Mack
          And I also wanted to remind you that with the large-scale use of the "Javelins" and "Spikes", the search for means of dealing with them is also sharply intensified.

          Well this is kagbe naturally fellow The competition of the shield and the sword has not been canceled.
          1. +1
            3 June 2017 07: 53
            That was 30 years ago (THIRTY CARL!)

            Oddly enough - but 30 years ago, physical phenomena worked the same way as now.
            And when a flashlight shone in your face at night - basically the light of this flashlight was and is visible request !
            1. 0
              3 June 2017 15: 46
              Quote: Nikkola Mac
              Oddly enough - but 30 years ago, physical phenomena worked the same way as now.

              The methods and technologies for their application have evolved. request
    3. +3
      2 June 2017 00: 46
      Quote: Nikkola Mac
      In the hot Israeli climate, the effectiveness (contrast) of such a GOS is in doubt.

      I also have something, well, they are probably for 2018. calculated ... the climate is changing ... belay Yes, I would not have given such a range in the Arctic without cooling ..., well, it’s me ... what’s there ... recourse
    4. 0
      2 June 2017 15: 32
      Already on sale there are IR cameras without cooling, you can even buy one on the phone.
  5. 0
    1 June 2017 08: 16
    The cost of one shot is comparable to the cost of T55
    1. +4
      1 June 2017 08: 46
      Quote: Pivot
      The cost of one shot is comparable to the cost of T55

      T-55 in digestible for service, the option is at least three times more expensive. And T-72 is generally more expensive than once in 10.
    2. 0
      1 June 2017 13: 56
      What about the "value" of human lives?
  6. +7
    1 June 2017 08: 52
    Spike LR it is bigger:
  7. +1
    1 June 2017 09: 03
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    A serious weapon. Although I aim from my shoulder at a target at a distance of 5.5 km - I can’t imagine how. Through no optics.

    The main thing here is to see the target itself, and through optics you can see at a greater distance. Guidance is carried out according to the GOS, when approaching, the target seems to increase, and only correction is being carried out.
    It is interesting that they abandoned the noise-protected cable, apparently inspired by the time, ISIS has no electronic warfare systems.)))
    1. +2
      1 June 2017 09: 12
      Quote: Denimax

      The main thing here is to see the target itself, and through optics you can see at a greater distance. Guidance is carried out according to the GOS, when approaching, the target seems to increase, and only correction is being carried out.
      It is interesting that they abandoned the noise-protected cable, apparently inspired by the time, ISIS has no electronic warfare systems.)))

      They refused only in helicopter configuration. In ST remains.
      1. 0
        1 June 2017 09: 27
        I did not notice that this was mentioned in the article, although it is logical if the helicopter does not want to hang when shooting.
        1. +1
          1 June 2017 09: 40
          Quote: Denimax
          I did not notice that this was mentioned in the article, although it is logical if the helicopter does not want to hang when shooting.

          On the site "RAFAEL" it is forgotten.
      2. +2
        2 June 2017 00: 52
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        They refused only in helicopter configuration. In ST remains.

        Have you ever read an article? Or just a headline?
        Now the exchange of information is carried out through a secure radio channel. At the same time, the possibility of transmitting a video signal to the operator console and receiving commands during the flight is preserved. The on-board missile control system can now receive target designation not only from appropriate media, but also from the tactical control system

        This is the meaning of rejecting the cable ....
    2. +1
      1 June 2017 21: 18
      Quote: Denimax
      ISIS has no electronic warfare systems ...

      But what about the "Serbian microwave"? fellow wassat
      1. +1
        2 June 2017 09: 15
        There were no microwave ovens, there were radars from decommissioned aircraft.
  8. +1
    1 June 2017 10: 49
    and don’t go to your grandmother - against Palestinian tanks
    1. +4
      1 June 2017 10: 56
      Quote: Tolstoevsky
      and don’t go to your grandmother - against Palestinian tanks

      Well, against the Syrian for example. And then the Spike is in service in 26 countries. Not for nothing, the creators of the new rocket tried to fully integrate it into the existing control panel.
      1. +1
        1 June 2017 14: 00
        I don’t think that in the next 10-15 years Syria will be able to threaten Israel, but rather “democratic rebels” and other “Muslim brothers”, “ash-shams”, etc. )))
        1. +2
          1 June 2017 23: 32
          Syria as a single state ended its existence
    2. +1
      1 June 2017 13: 58
      Well, don't get it. Solid development with excellent export potential. Yes, dear, infection. Well, here everyone decides for himself.
  9. +1
    1 June 2017 13: 57
    Well, now Khan is to all the Bedouin camels in the area ... lol
  10. +3
    1 June 2017 14: 08
    They know how to infect ..... hi
  11. mvg
    +2
    1 June 2017 14: 53
    и
    Quote: Aaron Zawi
    Quote: Mairos
    . One thing was confusing - how control algorithms will save the rocket if KAZ shoots with steel buckshot from it with 3-4 meters or what it shoots there. I am afraid that the ATGM no longer has time to evade in this case.

    Today, besides Israel, there is not a single army with armored vehicles equipped with KAZ. And most will not appear soon.

    And Arena-M is not KAZ? And the Barrier? What about afghanit? Light wedge on the IDF did not converge. The fact that you put KAZ on Merkava-IV and heavy BMP BMP does not mean that you have patented this prodigy. And the USA, it seems, are going to sculpt your Trophy on the abrashek.
    The article has no data on the performance characteristics of Spike. Doubt that he will take on the forehead 900-1100 homogen for DZ. Yes, and the "5th generation" ATGM, it somehow reminds more of Iran and the DPRK. laughing
    1. +4
      1 June 2017 15: 39
      "The article has no data on the performance characteristics of Spike" ////

      But there is recent experience in its combat use.
      Have you seen Armenian tanks - a whole row - with smoking tower hatches? - Spike hits
      from the "horizon".
    2. +1
      1 June 2017 16: 34
      Quote: mvg
      Yes, and the "5th generation" ATGM, it somehow reminds more of Iran and the DPRK.

      The fifth generation of anti-tank systems in principle is impossible to create. The limit is the fourth. When a rocket itself detects targets, it identifies, identifies a priority and hits it. That is, it fully performs the combat work of the operator.
      1. +2
        1 June 2017 21: 49
        Quote: Spade
        The limit is the fourth. When a rocket itself detects targets, it identifies, identifies a priority and hits it. That is, it fully performs the combat work of the operator.

        5, this is when it produces itself, if necessary (by analyzing the remaining ammunition) and itself, delivers itself to a registered consumer (user)
    3. +2
      1 June 2017 21: 23
      Quote: mvg
      The fact that you put KAZ on Merkava-IV and heavy BMP BM Namer does not mean that you have patented this prodigy.

      It doesn’t mean, but the facts are stubborn, in the combat units of KAZ only the IDF. request

      Quote: mvg
      Yes, and the United States, sort of going ...

      To get together and have “two big differences”, my neighbor is about to buy a new Mercedes, but he doesn’t now Mercedes. lol
    4. +4
      1 June 2017 21: 29
      Quote: mvg
      Doubt that he will take on the forehead the 900-1100 homogen for DZ ...

      In TTX "Cornet" declared 1200, so what? What is the difference? Is Spike not Russian? wassat laughing
  12. 0
    1 June 2017 16: 15
    Cheaper javelins. And in combat qualities is not inferior. By the way, the Israelis very quickly reduce the cost of weapons.
  13. mvg
    +2
    1 June 2017 16: 28
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "The article has no data on the performance characteristics of Spike" ////
    But there is recent experience in its combat use.
    Have you seen Armenian tanks - a whole row - with smoking tower hatches? - Spike hits
    from the "horizon".

    These are just T-72 early modifications, which, by the way, also made their way through the 105 mm centurion and M-60 cannons. There a forehead from a force of 550-650 mm. And you know the tendency of the T-72 to undermine ammunition. The torn tower, not Spike's work, Spike worked like a detonator. And right now I'll look for the performance characteristics. I just wanted to work a little more ... (
    PS: In general, it seems to me that Russia chose a somewhat wrong export policy (it doesn’t apply to the Armenians), when equipment with obviously weaker characteristics was exported. If the Araps in the wars with you had “real” Russian equipment, with full performance characteristics, perhaps not everything would be so smooth. Air defense mercenaries in the Air Force, and well-trained Araps in tanks. They then threw tanks, because there wasn’t much faith in them ..
    1. +3
      1 June 2017 16: 44
      "It's just the T-72 early modifications, which, incidentally, made their way ..... centurions and M-60.
      There's a forehead of 550-650 mm "///

      What does the forehead have to do with it? At least two meters of armor in the forehead, put ...
      Spikes fell into the hatches of the towers, from above. All tanks are hit from above.
  14. mvg
    +4
    1 June 2017 16: 42
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "The article has no data on the performance characteristics of Spike" ////
    But there is recent experience in its combat use.
    Have you seen Armenian tanks - a whole row - with smoking tower hatches? - Spike hits
    from the "horizon".

    TTX: Armor penetration is declared at the level of 700-1000 mm homogen (according to various sources, I am inclined to the first option, since the rocket weighs 14 kg, versus 34 kg in the Franco-German Milan, which also hits 1000), the speed is 130-180 m / s (Not enough, because in 15-20 seconds the target may disappear from the field of view).
    PS: In total, the ATGM, of course, is not bad, but not the 5-generation prodigy .. as stated in the article. stop 5-th generation can be released in the morning for "free hunting", and in the evening to listen to the reports of the UAV, where, how much, from what time and for how long they chased after those who escaped. wink
    1. +1
      1 June 2017 17: 55
      Quote: mvg

      PS: In total, the ATGM, of course, is not bad, but not the 5-generation prodigy .. as stated in the article. stop 5-th generation can be released in the morning for "free hunting", and in the evening to listen to the reports of the UAV, where, how much, from what time and for how long they chased after those who escaped. wink

      I think you and Lopatov are right. Probably this is not about generation, but about modification.
      1. +3
        1 June 2017 20: 29
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Probably this is not about generation, but about modification.

        More about advertising noodles.
        Some people are not satisfied with the current strict classification of ATGMs by generation, depending on the participation of the operator in the control of the rocket.
        For example, the brand new “Helfaer” with a semi-active laser seeker who wants to suck in some sheikhs turns out to be a rocket of only the second generation ...

        So they are trying to sell a new slurred classification, in which the number of the "generation" is assigned by the advertising department of the manufacturer.
        1. +1
          1 June 2017 22: 56
          Quote: Spade
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Probably this is not about generation, but about modification.

          More about advertising noodles.

          And maybe not only.
          http://www.stratpost.com/mbda-offers-co-dev-on-5t
          h-gen-anti-tank-missile /

          And here is what they mean by this:
          According to MBDA officials who spoke to StratPost, the MMP has an uncooled infra red seeker and three operating modes: fire-and-forget, man-in-the-loop with fiber optic data link and lock-on-after-launch, such a third party can designate the target
          .
  15. mvg
    +2
    1 June 2017 17: 36
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: mvg
    Yes, and the "5th generation" ATGM, it somehow reminds more of Iran and the DPRK.

    The fifth generation of anti-tank systems in principle is impossible to create. The limit is the fourth. When a rocket itself detects targets, it identifies, identifies a priority and hits it. That is, it fully performs the combat work of the operator.

    I drew below that I would like from the 5th generation wink
    1. 0
      1 June 2017 20: 33
      Quote: mvg
      what would I want from the 5th generation

      It, in principle, cannot be the fifth.
      The first is completely manual in three points. The second is semi-automatic. Third- “captured-fired-forgotten” Fourth-defeat is carried out without the participation of the operator.
      The participation of the operator is less than zero, in principle, cannot be. Unless the fifth can be attributed to the case when the operator will interfere with his own rocket to hit the target.
  16. mvg
    +2
    1 June 2017 18: 14
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "It's just the T-72 early modifications, which, incidentally, made their way ..... centurions and M-60.
    There's a forehead of 550-650 mm "///
    What does the forehead have to do with it? At least two meters of armor in the forehead, put ...
    Spikes fell into the hatches of the towers, from above. All tanks are hit from above.

    "Warrior wow," sorry, immodest question. Do you yourself believe that Spikes got into the hatch? Well, no matter where it went to the roof .. but not with manual control, but to go right into the hatch ... what Well, somehow I can’t believe it.
    PS: We’ll put “Afghanit” and “Arena” to the Armenian brothers so that the Azerbaijani-Israeli joint production of “Rafal” is not so optimistic. So what to do? angry
    1. 0
      1 June 2017 20: 35
      Quote: mvg
      We will put to the brothers Armenians “Afganit” and “Arena”

      Let their “NATO” friends deliver anything to these “brothers” ...
    2. +1
      1 June 2017 21: 14
      From Spikes repeatedly fell into solitary fighters - right in the middle of the chest.
      And they got a photo of the last second: mouth wide open in surprise. Caught in a small window at home. Why not get into the hatch of a stationary tank?
      Everything is just like in a comp game: joystick, computer screen, which transmits a clear video image from the head of a rocket.
    3. +2
      1 June 2017 23: 37
      And who will pay for such gifts? Unlike Azerbaijanis, Armenians are insolvent ...
    4. +3
      2 June 2017 16: 35
      Quote: mvg
      Do you yourself believe that Spikes got into the hatch?

      What does faith have to do with it? request
      1. 0
        3 June 2017 07: 30
        Quote: And Us Rat
        What does faith have to do with it?

        It is faith. Of the hundreds of launches selected the most accurate, and rush with them, as with a written bag.

        I remember shooting at the competition sighting to observe signs of breaks. There are no rangefinders with compasses, nothing. Data for the first shot "by eye" from the landmarks. The goal of Dali is a column. And the first shell right on it. I turn off the adjustment, I proceed to shoot to kill. The result is three fives and the best working time among all. One could shoot on video, and expose oneself as a person with a computer in the brain and a range finder in the eyes. And I was forced to shoot, because getting the first shot is an accident.

        So it is here. If you shoot long enough, the rocket will ever fly into the hatch.
        1. 0
          3 June 2017 15: 38
          Quote: Spade
          Of the hundreds of launches selected the most accurate, and rush with them, as with a written bag.

          Well, I have no others laughing

          Quote: Spade
          If you shoot long enough, the rocket will ever fly into the hatch.

          I don’t know what the hatches are, but she always got into the windows 9 from 10 during the fighting. request
        2. +1
          4 June 2017 10: 52
          "If you shoot long enough, the rocket will ever fly into the hatch." ////

          If on the head of the rocket a high-quality video camera, and on the joystick - a soldier who has
          hand do not shake, then it can not fly into the hatch.

          You do not compare with ordinary ballistic shooting with sightings, corrections, calculations.
          There is a bunch: a "flying video camera" - an optical communication cable - and a joystick with a screen.
          Nothing to calculate, nowhere to shoot.
    5. 0
      21 December 2017 18: 25
      Russian army first deliver .....
  17. +1
    1 June 2017 20: 15
    Quote: And Us Rat
    for example, through the hill behind which the tanks hid.

    For example, through the wall of the residence of one non-monetary hoopoe. am
  18. 0
    1 June 2017 21: 20
    And Us Rat,
    In the short length of the Spike SR, it is impossible to cram a large charge of solid fuel for a rocket engine.

    All rocket-propelled grenade launchers in the dimensions of Spike SR have a maximum direct firing range within 800 meters. With mounted shooting at an angle of 45 degrees, you can achieve a range of 1500 meters, but then the grenade launcher of the rocket-propelled grenade will not see the target recognized by the operator and will not be able to capture it before launch.

    So shooting at 1500 meters is only possible blindly with a conventional air defense grenade launcher (plus or minus bast shoes).
    1. +2
      2 June 2017 16: 32
      Quote: Operator
      With mounted shooting at an angle of 45 degrees, you can achieve a range of 1500 meters, but then the grenade launcher of the rocket-propelled grenade will not see the target recognized by the operator and will not be able to capture it before launch.

      Since when is the angle in 45 degrees a problem for modern GOS? laughing
      1. 0
        2 June 2017 17: 24
        For Spike, this is not possible before launch - the edges of the TPK interfere



        PS Is it really difficult for the manufacturer to change the shape of the front cover of the TPK so that all efforts to turn the GOS at 90 degrees do not go down the drain laughing
        1. +3
          2 June 2017 17: 55
          Quote: Operator
          For Spike, this is not possible before launch - the edges of the TPK interfere

          They are not kagbe lead lol
          Or why the transfer of the target from the sight to the GOS should occur before the shot? What prevents it from doing during shots? (when the GOS is already out of the tube)? fellow
          This reminds me of a dispute with a supporter of "flat land", they also find more and more clues that "prove" that the earth cannot be round. The arguments of the finger can be sucked to the end of the centuries. lol
          But the fact remains - in all trials Spike SR confidently hits the target with 1500m, and you can even say until the blue color that “this cannot be, because it can never be” - the facts do not change from this. fellow
          1. 0
            2 June 2017 18: 03
            Quote: And Us Rat
            They are not kagbe lead

            Only transparent in the secret optical range laughing

            Automatic target capture does not provide for a break in its accompaniment - we are discussing the Spike SR model, which does not have fiber optic wire for continuous image transmission from the PU sight in the GOS ATGM.

            Your comments are truly naked "facts" laughing
            1. +2
              2 June 2017 18: 09
              Quote: Operator
              Automatic capture of the target does not provide for a break in its tracking ...

              Who decided that? fellow
              And who talked about the "break", I said about transfer of escorts.
              Quote: Operator
              Your comments are truly naked "facts"

              There is only one fact - TTX according to test results, everything else is not relevant.
              I am only expressing my opinion in response to the opinion, but nothing depends on our two opinions. tongue
              1. +1
                7 June 2017 13: 22
                Quote: And Us Rat
                I am only expressing my opinion in response to the opinion, but nothing depends on our two opinions.

                Do not feed this troll. He saw what the mobile launchers of ICBMs of Yeriho look like. lol

                By the way, if "Spike SR, which does not have fiber-optic wire for continuous transmission of the image from the PU sight in the GOS ATGM," then how does Rafael show us the image from the GOS of this missile? wink No answer needed.



                1. +2
                  7 June 2017 18: 07
                  Quote: professor
                  Do not feed this troll.

                  Hi Oleg, over the years of absence I missed the fresh trollin.

                  He saw what the mobile launchers of ICBMs of Yeriho look like. lol

                  I believe! Yes We all saw ... in the movie "Iron Man"lol

                  Quote: professor
                  then how does Rafael show us the picture from the GOS of this rocket?

                  Well, with my sixth sense, I sensed that they should have left the feedback channel, at least to document the defeat of the target, they were too lazy to look for confirmation. hi
  19. +1
    25 June 2017 18: 03
    FGM-148 Javelin is much better soldier
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 01: 41
      than? explain
  20. The comment was deleted.