Horten Ho IX: Hitler's Last Air Hope

According to information RIA Newsjournalist National Interest Sebastian Robin believes that the German experimental plane Horten Ho IX was able to "turn the tide of the Second World War", providing the Third Reich Air Force with strong air dominance.

The American corporation Northrop Grumman recently announced the development of a new stealth bomber B-21, which is supposed to be performed under the "flying wing" scheme.

However, the first jet of this type was invented by the Horten brothers who served in Nazi Germany. He received, though not quite deservedly, the title of "stealth fighter for Hitler."

The development of Ho IX was initiated by the Reich Minister aviation German Goering, who set the task of creating an aircraft capable of speeds of 1000 km / h with a bomb load of 1000 kg and a flight range of at least 1000 km. The design of the aircraft, carried out according to the "flying wing" scheme, was demonstrated by the Horton brothers, who conducted experiments with tailless gliders. The machine had an original aerodynamic design that reduced air resistance, made it possible to save fuel and made it possible to use the latest jet engines.

Soon the project was approved. Gotha was given an order for the production of 40 aircraft. In February, 1945, the first tests of serial copies. But in April, the Allied forces entered the city of Friedrichroda, where the Ho IX release was adjusted. Several units of the experimental machine were in the hands of the United States.

S. Roblin believes that the opinion of the low visibility of the aircraft is not justified.

However, the “flying wing” scheme itself reduced the effective area of ​​reflection, which is typical of stealth aircraft.

Air superiority of the machine, in his opinion, provided a high speed of flight.

Time to detect the aircraft is not too important if it can beat any interceptor. In the sky of World War II, the IX could become a truly formidable machine. But by the end of the war he was still very far from mass production.

Comments

[Banishing liberoids]

Well, yes, along with a thousand "mouse" power would be that ... When victory is won in complete seams on all fronts, it remains to believe only in the power of "superweapon, although the same fau the course of the war and could not close the turn, despite their massive use.

[cniza]

History cannot use the concept IF ...

[Smog]

That's for sure. And they say they had flying "saucers". And ours with PPSh, Mosinka and some mother in Berlin at the Reichstag signed. Oh, these Western science fiction writers.

[cost]

National Interest magazine columnist Sebastian Roblin believes the German experimental aircraft, Horten Ho IX, was able to “turn the tide of World War II,” providing the Third Reich Air Force with strong air dominance.

You need to drive such a specialist from the magazine. He is not a columnist, but a mindless dreamer

[Smog]

Specialist!!!!!!!!! Yes, even what !!!!!!!

Sebastien Roblin holds a master's degree in conflict resolution from Georgetown University. He was a teacher in the Peace Corps in China, and also worked in education, refugee resettlement, and editorial work in France and the United States. He is currently writing on security and military history for War Is Boring

[Azim77]

Quote: Rich

He is not a columnist, but a mindless dreamer

Probably also signed up for marketing. The cunningly hidden advertising of the stealth F-22 and F-35 turned out.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

He is just a Western propagandist. They are doing everything possible to belittle the role and significance of the USSR in the struggle against fascist Germany. Everything German is always better with them, and the USSR achieved victory only at the cost of incredible losses ...

[kayman4]

What else did Fritz invent by the end of the war?

Guided missiles V-V V-P P-P PUTRA, combined armor for tanks multi-fuel engine assault rifles, submarines with an underwater speed of 28 knots - and this is not a complete list

[Smog]

Quote: kayman4

What else did Fritz invent by the end of the war?
Guided missiles V-V V-P P-P PUTRA, combined armor for tanks multi-fuel engine assault rifles, submarines with an underwater speed of 28 knots - and this is not a complete list

True, after that they “successfully” surrendered! Together with all the above listed property.

[wanin]

Having successfully driven more than 35 million into the graves ... well, worthy defeat

[Smog]

Quote: wanin

Having successfully driven over 35 million to the graves

Well, recently, Democrats argued that 27, now 35. Who is more, yes?
In general, the topic is not about that, so casting a shadow on the wattle fence is completely useless!

[wanin]

27 million MO data. And firstly, they do not respect themselves, and secondly, just calculate from 41 to 45 military operations and losses in them and come to the conclusion that even 27 is an understated figure

[Smog]

Quote: wanin

27 million data from Moscow Oblast

Well, as I understand it, you believe only inanimate sources? This is your right, no one deprives you of it. Therefore, do not deprive others, in particular me,
the right to believe MO. In general, our dispute is pointless and I once again draw your attention to the fact that it is off topic. I say goodbye to this.

[wanin]

Just go over the milestones and dates of the Second World War, if there are more than 6 million captured Red Army soldiers ... how many are missing? And that's not counting those killed on the battlefield ... no need to be about 7 spans in the forehead to understand how many died ...

[Smog]

If she is for you

Quote: wanin

on milestones and dates of the second world

World War II, then for me it’s the Great Patriotic War and after that we have nothing to talk about. My grandfather died not on the Second World War, but on the Great Patriotic War.

[wazza]

8,6 million data of the Ministry of Defense, and as many civilians have died.
And all due to the fact that one of yours at headquarters gave the command of the Soviet aviation to fly to the main airfields on the eve of the attack.

[wanin]

8.6 million civilians? in bulkadny Leningrad, more than a million died of starvation, in Belarus alone: ​​http: //beldumka.belta.by/isfiles/000167_81291
7 ....
Everything is in detail painted.

In Belarus:
Destroyed civilians: 1.
Prisoners of war destroyed: 810.
Deported to slave labor in Germany: 377.
These figures do not take into account losses of Belarusians at the fronts.
It is believed that one in four died. According to modern estimates, it is already rumored that every third ...
And these are just 2 examples ... What 8.6 million. Let’s immediately 1 soldier perish and one civilian. All

[wazza]

For the second part, for some reason, there were no objections ...

[wanin]

And the aviation will fly off, and remove the weapons and not just remove them and send them to the warehouses and not just send them to the warehouses, but preserve them, that is, after cleaning, immerse them in cannon oil-full preservation, hand over the cartridges of acre on duty units. Move army depots, clear bridges, send half of the staff on vacation and much more to do to facilitate the task of the Germans ..

[wazza]

Take anti-aircraft guns from airfields to training grounds ...

[wazza]

And all this, of course, was done by bad Stalin and not by the pests with whom he fought.

[Zulu_S]

Quote: kayman4

far from complete list

Yes. The list ends with Hitler's suicide in the Reich Chancellery. And the Nuremberg Tribunal put an end to it.

[electrooleg]

Quote: Rich

He is not a columnist, but a mindless dreamer

Well, you, he just put on his pants that once in the past the Luftwaffe could have bombed the United States. For the USSR, the final war would have ended in great acquisitions. So he got scared. Degenerates generally tend to experience non-existent scenarios.

[wanin]

We tried to copy these mice after the war, like their transmission, their Electromechanical transmission Elefantov, their 21 series submarines, their rocket engines, as well as their jet planes and their engine, so we pray that Russia is a big country .. And even though the Germans were advancing with us faster than in France, but they were tired ... It hurts to run far .. Oh, that we didn’t copy from the Germans after the war ... they even did dviglo for the Muscovite on their machines until the 90s, their machines were still of pre-war developments called Zaporozhets let out ... but you tell me what the Germans copied from us?

[Alf]

Quote: wanin

We tried to copy these mouses after the war

??
Why are you smoking today?

Quote: wanin

their cars of pre-war developments called Zaporozhets were produced ..

Which copied? Have a snack, please.

[CT-55_11-9009]

There is an assumption that the patient under the name Vanin took. That is two tablespoons of ground nutmeg. My neighbor threw one tea-room and went out stunned for two days, but here it hurts harder ... Significantly ...

[wanin]

In my Opel Cadet
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%
D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87-400
Take a bite - the engine from Muscovite 412 is a copy of the engine from BMW - the old men said that the gaskets under the head and the manifold fit one into one

[CT-55_11-9009]

What is copying the Mouse ??? Yes, it was assembled from two undermined by the Germans themselves at the training ground, fired upon and put in a museum. You can see him on Kubinka, Pavilion No. 6, if I am not mistaken, the first turn to the right, then to the end. He will be on the left. Punches from shells, by the way, can also be seen, they were not covered up.
Yes, the prototype of the new submarine (at the end of the 40s) was the 21st series. However, further developments were based on our own experience. Yes, German jet engines were used, since theirs were unreliable (and for the most part rocket engines). But they were not used for long, because more powerful engines were purchased in England, a copy of which we also improved soon. And what kind of jets did we use? Do not reveal the secret? And I know about the complete copying of the FAU-2, but I have not heard about the use of the Me-262 or Ar-234 ... All the more about the use of the "Salamander".

What did the Germans copy from us? Well, let's see. During the war, the T-34 was copied, for example. The panther was very impressed, don’t you? And VK 3002 (DB) is a complete copy, except that the tower of its development. Further tank developments went ONLY with inclined armor, at least in the frontal projection.

[wanin]

They were copied like rocket engines, a submarine of the 21st series. The in-engine for the Moskvich car And he copied, along with the factory exported and the body for this engine, or you did not notice that all three aircraft from England and the United States and ours very much against each other similar? Or is Vergeltungswaffe not enough for you? - “Is that not enough for you? -Me 262 in our series didn’t fly like Orrado but on the other hand, they copied a lot of other things, calling the German tank school a dead end of tank building themselves after the war, super tanks. It’s good that at least there was enough mind from them refuse. And who told you such nonsense that the Germans t-34 copied? In addition to the tilt of the armor, these tanks had nothing in common. The T-34 had so many drawbacks that it could not be fully modernized and traveled with armor of 45 mm in a circle and with a gun that was inferior in armor penetration to the same Sherman in Firefly versions didn’t help any tricks with gunpowder charges, complaints to this gun continued until the end of the war from tank crews demanding to increase the gun’s power. From adding substances that increase the speed of the projectile, the ammunition began to detonate, tearing the ammunition from the track, which flew 50 meters away. As tankers used to say, it was not enough to jump out of this coffin - you had to manage not to be crushed by its tower after that because it flew like a migratory bird. And if the tankman fought on the IS-2, then according to the same tankers he still had a chance to survive the t-34 crews had practically no chance - they burned like candles

[Alf]

Quote: wanin

In-engine for a car Moskvich And he copied, together with the factory exported and a body for this engine,

And where is Zaporozhets?

Quote: wanin

or didn’t you notice that all three planes from England and the United States and ours are very much alike?

Which ones are similar? Model, please, and do not replace the concept.

Quote: wanin

.From adding there substances that increase the speed of the projectile, it began to detonate the ammunition breaking the towers from the shoulder strap that flew 50 meters away.

Facts please.
Nonsense You, my friend.

[CT-55_11-9009]

In addition to the armor tilt, the VK 3002 (DB) had a T-34-like armor thickness, there was also a REAR transmission arrangement, which was very uncharacteristic for German tank construction, and a similar armor composition. Rear engine, but DIESEL! The Germans used only gasoline! Even the number of rollers did not differ much (here I can lie, and very much). Because of such trifles, the Wehrmacht preferred the traditional project VK 3002 (MAN) much more for the Germans, which, after refinement, became the “Panther”.

Well, well, why didn’t you write off such a car that was unsuitable for tankers? They even respected the Germans with the appearance of the PzKpfw IV Tiger and PzKpfw V Panther? Of course, not the early ones, but modernized ones, with the D-5T gun? If the car was SO bad, then why did it successfully fight from the beginning to the end of the war? And she fought there where the “beautiful German tanks” could not (by the way, they also had weak points, the Tigers and Panthers had unreliable transmissions, for example)? By the way, regarding the demolition of the turret during the detonation of the BC. Did he detonate from the wind? Or when getting there? So in this case, not a single tank in the world is safe from detonation.

And for development, like candles, diesel tanks can’t burn, gasoline engines have such a habit, diesel fumes, because the fuel is heavy. Yes, and medium tanks are not designed to withstand the hit of shells of large-caliber guns. Yes, the modernization potential of the T-34 in terms of increasing the reservation was small, since when the reservation was strengthened, the running gear started to fly, and mobility with patency decreased, which should not be allowed for medium tanks. But the T-34 coped with a bang with its task of supporting infantry and quick attacks.

Further. The British "Firefly" was armed with solid armor-piercing shells (we do not consider high-explosive shells now, although they were in the BC), in which the penetration due to kinetic energy was higher, and the striking ability was small. The Soviet guns, both F-34 and D-5T, and S-53 of the armor-piercing had mainly armor-piercing with explosives: for the first - BR-350A and BR-350B (it must be admitted, a solid BR-350SP and the sub-caliber BR-354P, but this one was adopted by the 43rd year), for the other two - the BR-365A and BR-365K, with explosives, which, with penetration during penetration, are far better than the British Shells. So the superiority of Sherman Firefly over the T-34 is dubious, and in general terms the American (modified for Britain) was thirty-four inferior.

[wanin]

The rocket engines weren’t that reliable, but according to the engineer, the thrust was at the bench engine in a wound of 5-10 tons. When, again, according to the scientist, they brought us the rocket engine from Germany to study, we gasped! -Working engine serial!! with a thrust of more than 50 tons or something !!!! (I can be wrong) we couldn’t talk about such indicators and realized how far the Germans left us in these developments

[wanin]

England sold us jet engines? -After the end of World War II? Churchill himself probably allowed it — it’s evident that the guy drank the brains to sell the jet engine almost to the enemy — I would like to see something more affirmative ...

[CT-55_11-9009]

No, the situation was not a joke, but in 1946 our delegation brought the Rolls-Royce Nene engine and copied it successfully. References - please!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ВК-1
If you don’t trust "Aunt Wick":
http://авиару.рф/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhen
ie / aviamotorostroenie / aviamotory-sssr / turboreakti
vnye / turboreaktivnyj-aviatsionnyj-dvigatel-vk-1-r
d-45 /

[Omskgasmyas]

Thunderstorm of all aces of allies. True, the prototype of this aircraft flew in just 2 hours and crashed, and the rest of the prototypes were not even completed.
In short, Hitler's next child prodigy.

[Altona]

A couple of dozens of such aircraft could turn the tide of the war? The author himself is not funny? I would look at the amount of equipment destroyed during the fighting, there is an account for hundreds of thousands of cars. And here are the airplanes of crude construction, half of which would simply fall due to failure of the units.

[svp67]

Quote: Altona

A couple of dozens of such aircraft could turn the tide of the war?

All generals want to believe that the fabulous "sword-treasure" is a real weapon that can help them defeat all enemies ...

[Cxnumx]

Quote: svp67

All generals want to believe that the fabulous "sword-treasure" is a real weapon that can help them defeat all enemies ...

Well, the Americans were almost able to, fortunately, they didn’t manage to achieve the required number unilaterally

[wanin]

The miracle was almost ready for them ... It remains only to providence to say thank you that they, like the Americans, did not drop a bomb on us ... But there were almost none ... I can say with firm certainty that we were just lucky

[Smog]

Quote: wanin

The miracle was almost ready for them ..

Nearly? It doesn’t mean ready

Quote: wanin

that they, like Americans, didn’t drop a bomb on us ..

Did the Americans drop a bomb on us? When? Where? Which?

Quote: wanin

.And almost there wasn’t.

There was almost nothing?

Quote: wanin

I can say with firm confidence

that you, my friend, do not read books, from the word at all, therefore your syllable is boring, meager and not interesting.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Smog

therefore, your syllable is boring, meager and not interesting.

Yes and let. The main thing -

Quote: wanin

we were just lucky

[wanin]

Why are these photos? I can send such a mass.

[wanin]

German losses in World War II on all fronts (countries and fronts where the Germans fought to list?) Range from 8 to 9 million, with a civilian population of up to 13 million.
Losses of the USSR over 20 million soldiers of the Red Army and over 15 million civilians. Nobody will ever tell you the exact numbers because the registration in the Red Army and everyone knows about it was done through one place - in any case, you cannot compare the same German archives. So keep these photos for yourself or make them murals and paste them at home.
Here are the words of one veteran about the burial of fallen soldiers- "If there was time and desire, then they buried them in the equipped funnels, expanding them, or dumping them in trenches after marking the place with cardboard with the signature chemical pencil and marking on the map. A couple of months later, the place is like Usually they couldn’t find it, and if they were too lazy they would lie on the fields for weeks until they died out, then they would bury them without marking anything by simply burying the remains in the pit. Solitary corpses could simply be thrown away into the forest so that their eyes would not be corpulent. But they might not have removed what promised the abyss that fell on the battlefield, with failure after the relatives in retirement about the loss of a breadwinner. I read a lot of such stories. According to the same veterans, the accuracy of the burial of the dead Germans was surprising, each has a separate grave, What a luxury ...

[svp67]

Quote: wanin

Losses of the USSR over 20 million soldiers of the Red Army .... Nobody will ever tell you the exact numbers because the registration in the Red Army and everyone knows about it was done through one place — in any case, you cannot compare the same German archives.

Well, why lie?
Learn ... http://krieg.wallst.ru/frames-k/allarmy.html

[wanin]

The Germans’s atomic bomb was ready by the year 45 percent by 90 if not more. Having learned about this, our scientists were no less surprised and glad that they did not have time for 100 percent. So we are really lucky. It was also lucky because the Germans made the mistake of making a bomb not of uranium but of plutonium. In the field of aircraft engineering and rocket science, in shipbuilding — and in its underwater component — the Germans were ahead of the rest. Or the sinking of the Italian battleship Roma is not proof that The Germans didn’t have everything in the experimental designs? —the Germans were the first to launch a rocket into space — albeit on a machine gun, but it flew there. A gyroscope is an invention of the Germans. Torpedoes with homing on the noise of screws are also their merit ... Yes, damn tired of listing. our scientists didn’t like China on all fours. What can we argue about when we didn’t even have turbocharged aircraft engines before the war ended !!! The Japs and they were !!! and we both flew on conventional engines and flew until the end of the war

[Smog]

Quote: wanin

wanin

Too shy to ask! And why did they CAPITULATE? Well, if they are such a super-duper.? Just do not refer to the memorial, that we buried the trenches with corpses and went with the cuttings from shovels to the attack. This is not a kindergarten or elementary school. Alas for you and ah.

[wanin]

It is not a question of why they capitulated and all in that spirit, we are talking about the technological structure of Germany. And their technical capabilities. It is clear that they had no civilian life and during the intervention on our land half the world walked and did what they wanted. But the fact is the fact. And bullshit about copying the T-34 and not the possibility of the Germans creating a diesel engine is from the realm of fantasy - they had a diesel engine. But it’s especially senseless to change gasoline to diesel. As the studies showed, our tanks burned just as well as the German ones despite the super fireproof notorious diesel engine. The Germans didn’t have enough fuel even for submarines to feed at the front both diesel and gasoline then no fuel - they would not have had enough. and so the synthetics were poured into tanks. I won’t argue about the corpses - I can only limit myself to the number of prisoners taken for 41-45 years - the bulk, of course, 42 or more than 6 million people — more than 4 million were left forever in captivity. by December 41 years inclusive captured more than 3 million !!!!! a soldier of all military branches of the Red Army - this is it !!! - an indicator for me !!! this is a figure for me. The loss of small arms trunks as of December 41 was 5 million units !!!! The defeats in 42 near Kharkov, Orel, Sevastopol, in addition to the operation of Manstein, hunting for Dropf, the collapse of the entire defense of the Kerch peninsula with the complete destruction of our group, that's it !!! NUMBERS. what kind of Pauli there with its insignificant 96 thousand. German defense of the Cursed Triangle Rzhev Sychevka Vyazma. with huge losses from our side, these are the numbers !!! And .... a monument to the Courageous Defenders of Rzhev ...- Germans or what? we Rzhev left without a fight ... Avot Germans defended him ... and for a long time.

[wazza]

For the USSR, of the whole, only the V-2 as a whole with its maintenance was really interesting. The gyroscopes were still in Whitehead’s linear torpedo, never a German.

[wanin]

Yes? Only Fau 2 and a mustache? - Well then, the factories were taken out entirely with the families of engineers. I only heard Fau 2 for the first time and honestly was discouraged. They created the gyroscope in the 19th century. The Germans were the first to use it in real production models. Like a torpedo homing to the noise of a propeller, a controlled bomb bomb sank the battleship Rome. Allies literally gutted all Germany as documentation, products and people, so they had to carry out operations to capture people. All of this was used in huge demand))) FW 190 D also flew along with the supercobra after the war as a high-altitude driver. Ours was not))

[wazza]

An owl doesn’t read, only writes? How Moscow air defense was without the FW190 the whole war?
The Germans destroyed the entire European part of the USSR to the Volga. The factories were exported beyond the range of aviation of the Anglo-Americans, the few surviving families of German engineers were certainly happy with this.

[wanin]

Poor wretched Germany - from where the winners dragged into their burrows everything from the latest technologies, documents, even Americans and we dragged people like hundreds of designers and Toko scientists because they had some shameful unfinished wunderwafes and our Lavochkin rode proudly to America and gave lectures and instructions on the production and technology of Russ-plywood, where the poor Germans are before us ..

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: wanin

Poor wretched Germany - from where the winners dragged into their burrows anything from the latest technologies, documents, even people dragged people like Americans and we, hundreds of designers and scientists

In the same way, Germany was pulling people to itself, starting from infants and ending with artists.

[wanin]

Were the children the designers? -I'm now not about forced labor silt, but about those who moved technology forward. And then what about the artists? The Führer was there to paint. Strange comment

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: wanin

Strange I must say comment

Aryans were made of children, artists made matrices for printing money. Regarding scientists and designers, he was not specifically interested.

[wazza]

There were some, but they killed much more before the war, as they stole the documentation.

[wanin]

What does the technical structure of Germany and our children have to do with it? But this is what it is about. With the export of children, etc. I do not argue, but the point is not in this matter right now

[wazza]

The Prussians are actually 3/4 Germanized Slavs and are very different from the rest of the Germans in everything. With children, they always had a bad time.
After the Revolution, even in interwar Germany, much more of the Tsarist intelligentsia settled than remained in their homeland. You can remember the same Anfisu Chekhov, for whom the Reich Chancellor dragged himself.

[inkass_98]

Yeah, revelations are streaming onto our heads. There were a lot of such projects, and all of them are in the public domain, at least here:

[Altona]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

When victory is won in complete seams on all fronts, it remains to believe only in the power of "superweapon, although the same fau the course of the war and could not close the turn, despite their massive use.

---------------------------
Hoping for their catchphrase: "Release the Kraken!"

[Dude]

For each of their Kraken we have our own Berlag! :)

[svp67]

Horten Ho IX: Hitler's Last Air Hope

Why LAST? What, what, and various ideas embodied and not embodied in Germany at that time was ENOUGH. And BUT-IX is one of them ...

[evil partisan]

The only thing that could somehow delay the collapse of the 3rd Reich is nuclear weapons. But Hitler did not work out ...

[vladimirvn]

In 44-45, our attitude was such that the hell would stop nuclear weapons.

[wanin]

The readiness of nuclear weapons is now regarded by historians as somewhere around 90 .. and higher in percent, they had uranium reserves or what was there so much that they even shared this with the Japanese by sending them a portion in a submarine along with the dismantled me-262

[parusnik]

Sebastian Roblin believes that the German experimental aircraft Horten Ho IX was able to “turn the tide of World War II,” providing the Third Reich Air Force with confident air dominance.

and contradicts himself by claiming the opposite ..

In the sky of World War II, the Ho IX could become a truly formidable car. But by the end of the war he was still very far from mass mass production.

[ImPerts]

So I want to continue all this with a phrase:

And they signed on the walls of the Reistag!

[Mountain shooter]

The weapon does not win. Warriors, organization, will win. When Hitler attacked the USSR, the superiority in tanks of the USSR was radical. Both in quantity and quality. But the Red Army was NOT READY to fight. Morally. And rolled back to Moscow. And in 1944 the situation was exactly the opposite. The Red Army was NOT to be held by any weapons. No fortifications and super tanks with super airplanes could save the Germans. I dare to suggest that, God forbid, the Germans use of a nuclear bomb would not save them.

[Малый]

In quantitative terms, there were a lot of tanks on paper ... But according to the memoirs of Veterans .... the real situation was a very varied lack of spare parts ... fuel for tankers, shells, etc.and even now there is no order ... and then it was fraud on pain of not becoming an enemy of the people ...

[romandostalo]

What nonsense! Flying wings were built by everyone. We remember offhand Cheranovsky. In Stefanovsky’s memoirs, in my opinion, a whole chapter is devoted to this scheme.

[Bondik05]

Could turn the tide of the war, only because no one could catch this plane ?! This is a new word in tactics and strategy. Somewhere sensitively "bite" maybe and could but no more ...

[Engineer]

First of all, what kind of invisible plane is he? If someone does not know, then at that time the pilot's eyes were the main "radar" of the aircraft. With a spatial steel frame, with recreational engines and steel sheets of exhaust sheathing, it would shine stronger on the meter radars of that time than the entire wooden Mosquito. Secondly, which of the flying wings can be a fighter? He has no maneuverability at all, I would even say that maneuvers are contraindicated for him. And since the main armament was cannon, which implies close maneuverable combat, the result of the battle was predictable. If someone does not know, then on the B-2, in order for the plane to simply be able to perform a non-maneuverable horizontal flight, the huge computing power of the on-board systems is involved. And there were neither computers, nor boosters, and it was close. Apparently the task was to quickly and quietly (the invisibility is) to draw closer, due to high speed, to shoot back and leave without entering into a maneuvering battle. Such tactics would certainly change the course of the war without a doubt. Of course, I do not beg for the merits of the ingenious German engineers of that time, but history has shown that at the end of the war, realizing what the outcome was coming, they were more likely to deal with projections to create a child prodigy, blowing dust in the eyes of Hitler, and not weakly sawing money for it. Because there were a lot of floodlights, but there was no sense at all. And what flew more or less was the work of the war.

[Taoist]

Well let's say you are not quite in the subject. The Hortens had non-metallic casing - and they invented a special composite of plywood, epoxy resins and coal dust - which really very well absorbed the long-wave radiation of radars of that time. Yes, and airborne radars have been used with might and main. Secondly, the rumors about the low maneuverability of the “wing” are also, to put it mildly, untrue ... there is more likely the opposite, low stability (by the way, the EXPERIENCE suffered the same thing which nobody called a non-maneuverable fighter). And I would not compare with B16. By the way, on B2 the same problem also requires such a bunch of computers. Another question is the size and weight of the car ... So the pilot on Horten could well fend off manually ... Yes, there is no “wunderwaffle” - and in this regard, no super plane could turn the tide of the war ... (by the way, “Schwalbe” "the Germans managed to build a couple of thousand - it is not noticeable what influenced the results) but the works of the Hortens themselves are very interesting.

[tomket]

Quote: Engineer

First, what kind of invisible plane is he?

Well, just a stubborn author stumbled upon a "something" reminiscent of B-2, and his soul swept into heaven.

[Alf]

Quote: Engineer

that at the end of the war, realizing what the outcome was coming, they were more likely already engaged in projects to create a prodigy, wiping dust in Hitler’s eyes,

Pay attention to the filing date of the project and the date of the first flight.

[anjey]

an analogy with the recent topic about the F-35 begs. Also the “Miracle weapon”, modern adik receivers just roll their eyes in delight at the possession of this miracle, well this is certainly cynical, but the landfill is at hand (Syria), show your miracle, and we will look and enlighten and there we will characterize, there will be an advertisement for you all over the world ....

[Labrador]

If my grandmother had .... - she would be a grandfather

[venik]

Well, "baldezhniki" in this "National Interest" sit .... Well, trepachki !!!!
Firstly, there is ABSOLUTELY NO data about this plane making at least 1 (one!) Flight !!! Just amers got TWO unfinished sample and a few more in the form of separate nodes ......
Secondly, there is absolutely NO data that this “bird” AT ALL could fly ... ... The controllability of airplanes with NO vertical plumage - THEREOF .... And even more so, it is doubtful that it could accelerate to TRANSMISSION speeds !!! In those days, it was not yet known that a “fundamentally different wing profile” was required on the “near sound”!
In fairness, it should be said that after the war, the Americans nevertheless contrived to build a car on a similar principle (obviously, German equipment was not without it), BUT: it had 4 PISTON engines and differed MORE than the modest flight speed, but the second from the "experimental" stage - it SO AND WASN'T EXIT !!!! Preference was given to "traditional schemes" ... They returned to the same scheme only after more than 40 years, and even then only when on-board processors and control systems appeared that made it possible to control an "unstable" flight).

[Mwg]

So the Nazis already had control processors, only electro-mechanical ones.

[wanin]

But others flew and in serial production. So you can hope that this one would fly ... stopudovo

[venik]

Quote: wanin

But others flew and in serial production. So you can hope that this one would fly ... stopudovo

====
Well, actually they say that "the spoon is the road to dinner", and not after ......
Well, why not remember “17 Moments of Spring”: “Well, if it were summer, if we had the glove of this lady, and if there was a Doberman pinscher, if he“ took a trace ”, then look it would not be necessary ..... "

[wanin]

As far as I know, several types of jet airplanes flew serially SERIAL.there is no "would be" etc. Germans had jet technology for us like a moon for a pedestrian. I262 already flew and fought .. they had this Spoon for dinner ..

[CT-55_11-9009]

No, the first instance of Horten, it seems, made several flights. The second - not in the know. But I remember for sure that the third was already in an unfinished state.

[Julio Jurenito]

Oh, these me prodigies ...

[tomket]

And how could this crap turn the tide of the war? Would you fly once again to bomb Britain? Well, the Soviet tank armies didn’t give a damn about who was bombing London stealth or not stealth.

[wanin]

I remember one such army in 45 the Germans wiped off the face of the earth when our army rolled out of the air cover. Witnesses said that they saw the striking imagination of broken and burnt tanks, the result of the work of their attack aircraft. We just had a lot of armies and they were not sorry ..

[Alf]

Quote: wanin

I remember one such army in 45 the Germans wiped off the face of the earth when our army rolled out of the air cover. Witnesses said that they saw the striking imagination of broken and burnt tanks, the result of the work of their attack aircraft. We just had a lot of armies and they were not sorry ..

Army and front number possible? And then I will consider a liar.

[wanin]

I’ll find off. So far from memory .When we moved to the front line, we saw an amazing number of battered and burnt our tanks, no one could understand how such a number of vehicles could be pounded, later it turned out that at those attack speeds the tank brigades pulled ahead and went much further and faster than aviation could relocate planes closer to the front — there wasn’t enough time just to relocate and often ground units were left without air cover, which the Germans often used.

[CT-55_11-9009]

"Billy, we need proofs!"

[Geisenberg]

Could ... but just didn’t ... Yes, and now it’s not really becoming so.

[Mwg]

And the United States could copy, or implement, such a project only after 45 years. The praised USA: the "leader" of world progress and the "friend of all mankind."

[Altona]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Everything German is always better with them, and the USSR achieved victory only at the cost of incredible losses ...

-------------------------
Well, yes, but the USSR mobilized the hordes of Stalin, the horde of convicts, the horde of Siberians, mounted tankmen of Mongolia, and heaped up the Wehrmacht.

[Kostya Shakhnazarov]

Quote: Smog

That's for sure. And they say they had flying "saucers". And ours with PPSh, Mosinka and some mother in Berlin at the Reichstag signed. Oh, these Western science fiction writers.

read about the volumes of Lend-Lease

[wazza]

PPSh were imported by Lend-Lease, or was every Soviet soldier in a jeep?
One thing already really puts plutocracy in the camp of the Nazi allies that under the pretext that supposedly "you can’t forbid business", they sitting behind a ditch openly sent them engine oil, other strategic materials and aviation anti-corrosion varnish for duralumin, which was not supplied to the USSR on the contrary, for which all Soviet fighter aviation was wooden-linen. What jet engines are already there, for which a special alloy was just needed.

[wanin]

Smog,
the great patriotic war is a part of the second world war ... this is a historical fact .. the entry on September 4 of the 14th year of our troops into poland immediately after the flight of the polish government, we do not consider the beginning of the great patriotic war, nor the war of 39-39 in finland too .. .stranno.I am a supporter of such actions, but the essence of the fact does not change
and what does your grandfather have to do with it?

[CT-55_11-9009]

Let's start. Firstly, not on the 14th but on the 17th they introduced troops. Secondly, WWII is also not counted from the beginning of the war in China or from the conflict on the CER, and the conquest of Ethiopia by Italy is not included there, although it would seem to be ... So that's it. The return of Western Ukraine and Belarus illegally captured by the Poles in 1921 (which even did not take into account the opinion of England, did not give a damn about the Curzon line) - there is a return, and we did not fight with the Polish troops, but only entered the territory from which the Germans departed. The war with Finland is already called the Soviet-Finnish (or Winter). Actually, the Second World War began with the attack of the Third Reich on the USSR at 4 a.m. on June 22, 1941. I didn’t think so, but people are smarter than me. And you, by the way, too, so that you can consider anything you like, this will not become a historical fact. And it ended on May 9, 1945 at 0:43 Moscow time. Yes, and in fact, we participated in WWII, defeating the Kwantung Army in August 45th.

Well, if you do not understand what the grandfather of the respected Smog has to do with it, then nothing will help here. All the best to you.

[wanin]

Well, let's-the USSR signed an agreement with Poland with the conclusion of peace and the rejection of these very lands. Was the agreement signed? Yes, there are signatures? Yes. All conversation is over. But 14 or 17, what's the difference? Further.Officially, and it was accepted by all, including us, that the Second World War began on September 1, 1939. And China there, Ethiopia and the other beginning of the war can be counted from the Creation of the World. You can write as much as you want about the Curzon line, but the signed agreement solves all these issues. . And why should Poland reckon with the opinion of England? They took the territory? Yes! Did we agree with entim? Yes. The whole question is closed. Then I didn’t mention when the Second World War began, it was about the 2nd World War, or rather its beginning. And what offends you so much that the great Patriotic was part of the Second World War? Type we are separate and they are separate ..?. It is unclear ... And again, and where is the grandfather Smog? He was offended that I consider the Second World War a part of the Second World War? And what’s offensive to you? You just have some kind of unhealthy reaction to these topics. If we entered the territory of a neighboring state recognized by the results of the 1st World War and took the previously lost territory according to the results of the war and, at the same time, took it from both sides, then at the same time it’s stupid, really yelling that we hadn’t fought since September in Poland. and only since June 2, 22. By the way, we called it a liberation campaign. And the Germans also freed .. But the Germans started the Second World War and we didn’t. That's damn humorous

[wazza]

Let's not.
The peace treaty was signed and not on the consent to the rejection of land.
There is a difference: 14 is not 17.
This "strange" WWII was then some kind of almost 2 years, with the exception of 2 weeks in France.
What did the Germans release in Poland in 1939? All the bad to you.
Probably because "Most" is not indicated.
You are lucky that your spoon of bitter almonds was not enough.

[wanin]

And what is the difference between September 14-17? -Well, the government escaped from Warsaw on the 17th that day the troops entered. And how is it that the Germans liberated? -The same as we! -They took part of the original German lands in favor of Poland. ..Danzig then the cutest is the former German territory, we liberated the territory seized from us in favor of Poland according to the results of the war:
From Wikipedia, none of the parties achieved the goals during the war: Belarus and Ukraine were divided between Poland and the republics that became part of the Soviet Union in 1922. The territory of Lithuania was divided between Poland and the independent Lithuanian state. The RSFSR, for its part, recognized the independence of Poland and the legitimacy of the Pilsudski government, temporarily abandoned plans for a "world revolution" and the liquidation of the Versailles system.

Despite the signing of a peace treaty, relations between the two countries remained tense.
If Poland and we with its new borders were recognized, then this means that having carried out the Liberation Campaign we invaded the neighboring state. Point. Putin do not remember what you did in Danzig? in 2009? And I remind you: He asked for forgiveness there for the attack on Poland in the year 39. So we took our part and the Germans partly ours, and if they give everything, why not take it? But we took from Finland what we donated to them in 18? We took it! So the good facts are stubborn, but Putin did nothing to go banging in 2009 — beg forgiveness didn’t help much

[wazza]

She ran away and after Molotov’s declaration of insolvency of the Polish state, ordered the Poles from the Romanian border not to resist the Soviet troops.
The point was when it was written about the peace treaty, and not about the consent to the rejection of land.

[wanin]

Cho really Polish troops did not show us resistance? Here is the news ... The lands after the USSR war were taken away by Poland? Yes, we agreed to recognize the loss of these lands according to the agreement? Yes! So these lands are already legally Polish, and if there were no peace treaty and consent on our part to give the lands to Poland, we would be at war with them and there would be no such concept of "Old and New" borders. So, to summarize, the invasion was from the east of our troops and from the western borders of Germany. All went Putin to Danzig, asked for forgiveness, They know better what to do up there. So there were reasons ...

[wazza]

True. In addition to completely honored on the whole head frostbitten.
It is already written - the point was. The subject of the peace treaty was even exhausted legally with the disappearance of the Polish state and the flight of their government, which issued such an order by September 17.
Someone already apologized for the birch planted by Stalin near Smolensk?

[wanin]

All is correct. Since a state without a government seems to be just a territory, but the government is left ... Although this did not stop Molotov from running to the German ambassador in Moscow and asking the same question 15 times on the day of Ob schon Praga fefallen war? But the government then remained ... even if it was in exile, but it remained. And why did Putin still ask for forgiveness in Danzig? If legally at the time of the attack Poland as a state did not exist? Is Birch and Stalin a lack of arguments? And yet, whatever the opponent’s point of view, take the trouble not to insult it does not make you an intellectual. For where the arguments of fools end there are insults ... And if Putin did all the same, he repented of the attack on Poland -And the authority of Putin for me does not argue what you want from me? Write letters with questions to the Kremlin ...

[wazza]

That's right, but not with you ... The government was no longer in business, and it was not from Prague that it issued the last order it issued. In the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, inspired by the British, while they slaughtered the Greeks, it did not fall much longer.
He could not ask such questions, he always talked through an interpreter.
You need it yourself, write it yourself. Though the Dalai Lama ... in exile ...

[wanin]

Could and asked, through the translator or not, what's the difference? Even if the government was out of work - it’s all one government in no other way, and if we ourselves recognized an act of aggression against the state then what are you talking about? I don’t have to write anywhere and everything is clear, as indeed with Finland (in vain Stalin didn’t wipe it off the face of the earth as well as Poland by the way) Nobody asked Poland to attack us in 18 ... I have no questions about the Dalai Lama

[wazza]

It makes such a difference that he has such a question

"Ob schon Praga fefallen war?"

did not ask.
The government is not an inheritance this is not a government, it has nothing to manage, the Germans dismissed it. The Polish state for 5 years - into oblivion. During which they erased 1/5 of the Poles.
There was no longer a Polish state as a subject for Soviet aggression.

[wazza]

The wrong year was also knocked out in Katyn. Indications of the local that the Polish camp was until 1941 no one cares. Like the fact that the Germans always killed absolutely all the captured Polish officers and the entire intelligentsia.

[Dart]

Quote: Smog

that you, my friend, do not read books, from the word at all, therefore your syllable is boring, meager and not interesting.

absolutely agree.

[Leonid Har]

If we assume that the United States won the Second World War, then of course such aircraft could turn the tide of the war. It is important for Americans that the war was won not by the USSR, but by America. But the story does not rewrite. The Third Reich was not destroyed by the Americans, but by the fighting spirit of ordinary Soviet soldiers. Consequently, no Hortens could influence the course of the war.