Military Review

American security officials adopted a M17 pistol - a modification of the SIG Sauer P320

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The American power structures will arm with the new gun. The commanders of the Air Force, Navy and the US Marine Corps officially adopted the M17 pistol - a modification of the SIG Sauer P320, designed to meet the requirements of the US Department of Defense, reports "Warspot" with reference to the portal kitup.military.com


American security officials adopted a M17 pistol - a modification of the SIG Sauer P320

M17 will be delivered to the troops in full and short versions.


The ground forces, the Air Force, the Navy, and the Marine Corps are separate types of US forces, and their commands can make decisions about the use of certain models. weapons. Therefore, their consent to rearmament remained the last obstacle to the entry of the M17 pistol into the troops.

The winner of the tender XM17 Modular Handgun System was announced in January of this year. It turned out to be a gun M17 - modification SIG Sauer P320, designed to meet the requirements of the US Department of Defense. The new pistol will be delivered to the troops in the 9 × 19 Parabellum caliber, while the manufacturer indicates that the weapon is modular and can be easily converted to fire .357SIG and .40SGW cartridges.
Under the terms of the tender, the US Department of Defense signed a contract with SIG Sauer for the production of 280 000 pistols in the amount of $ 580 million. Thus, the cost of one gun with a set of accessories and warranty service will be about $ 2000 (civilian modification of SIG Sauer P320 costs about $ 450) . At the same time, the second finalist of the tender (the company Glock, which presented the latest modifications of the Glock 17 and Glock 19 pistols) appealed the decision of the Defense Ministry, and in June of this year the Government Accountability Office should make its decision in this dispute.
Photos used:
kitup.military.com
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  1. poquello
    poquello 4 May 2017 20: 15
    +2
    1550 candy wrappers of accessories or what?
    1. cost
      cost 4 May 2017 20: 18
      +5

      SIG Sauer P320: Short TTX
  2. DEPARTMENT
    DEPARTMENT 4 May 2017 20: 15
    +3
    production of 280 pistols worth $ 000 million

    They have a right when they have a machine ... How many of these pistols and automatic machines of different modifications have they already? .. It is easier, as always, with us, but what to do?
    1. kapitan92
      kapitan92 4 May 2017 23: 09
      +7
      Quote: DEPARTMENT
      . It is easier for us, as always, but what to do?

      It’s not easier with us. We have as always !!! Here are just a new army pistol not! hi
  3. kosopooz77
    kosopooz77 4 May 2017 20: 43
    +2
    In general, it’s amazing that they have a great omega, and there are all kinds of lasers, drones, Aegis there ... A pistol for the army is European. Before the Sauer, they have military men, it seems the Berettas armed
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 4 May 2017 21: 14
      +1
      - They also seem to have no prophets in their own Fatherland ... wink
      1. Alexaner Arier
        Alexaner Arier 4 May 2017 21: 34
        +1
        they don’t just have such weapons in terms of indicators as Germany and Belgium produce.
        here and buy. Now they decide who will buy the assault rifle from Germany or Belgium.
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 4 May 2017 21: 43
          +1
          - Anyway - it sounds wild ... Having in the country such a number of arms manufacturers, firms - customizers, private owners - homemade - place orders abroad! Truly: Bureaucracy will destroy the world! laughing
          - Friends told me - the police there ride motorbikes from Kawasaki ... and this is in the country of Harley and Davidson!
          1. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 4 May 2017 23: 49
            +2
            Quote: saygon66
            the police there ride motorbikes from Kawasaki ..

            Duc, cops in Arizona armed ... Russian wasp injuries. This is the topic! And Kawasaki ... So Japan is like an unofficial state of the United States.
          2. tracer
            tracer 5 May 2017 03: 50
            +3
            You see, in the country of Harley and Davidson in the "world" and the past life of the inhabitants of Odessa, Kharlamov and Davydov. The main problem in the blindness of thinking is killed by a tight formation. Therefore, it is fashionable to make in America what is angular in what angular quantities, artisans are pretty. But really breakthrough scientists are extremely scanty and those that are all basically emigrants are enticed or overbought. Staying on the laurels of a well-fed defense of the order led the Colt company to bankruptcy. Which pistols are new? Smith - Weson, at least somehow, was afloat with his MP pistols, but they did not pass the competition explicitly. Remington? Winchester? Savaj? Ruger? Springfield Not ..... Despite the abundance of models of serious army tests, their products do not stand up. Beretta at the new competition did not really participate in it so well. They greatly expanded the production of all products from the time of pushing the M92 .. Of the serious and really using their design Glock and Sieg .... The rest of the companies in one way or another use the earlier created designs to one degree or another bringing something of their own. So they chose Zig for many many reasons. In the country of Harleys, it’s not exactly the nuggets of the designers that are lacking. And creations like (stick an engine from an airplane onto a car) Well, what for in the army is not necessary.
            1. Waltherfun
              Waltherfun 8 July 2017 18: 45
              0
              Quote: tracer
              Smith - Weson, at least somehow, was afloat with his MP pistols, but they did not pass the competition explicitly.

              S&W did not participate in competition YOURS!
              Quote: tracer
              Beretta at the new competition did not really participate in it so well.

              Exactly participated and flew out along with the "FN". She is not at all well, she was pushed with more than half a billion dollars from the largest weapons contract in world history.
              Quote: tracer
              What new pistols? Remington? Winchester? Savaj? Ruger? Springfield Not ..... Despite the abundance of models of serious army tests, their products do not stand up.

              Only modular pistol systems could participate in the competition, but you mention manufacturers that do not have such lines. Army tests withstand, precisely, many, but not all, meet the requirements of the army. For example, the best pistols of a practical shooter (CHZ-75, Tanfoglio), despite their convenience, accuracy and modularity, will not work.
              Quote: tracer
              Of the serious and really using their design, Glock and Zig .... Other companies, one way or another, use earlier created designs to one degree or another bringing something of their own.

              SIG Sauer - made according to the Glock principle, and not "using its own design." In turn, Glock did not invent anything new in the principle of operation of automation, so if we talk about the design, then everything “alien” is used there. Surprised?
              PS Why write about something that you forgot to even ask about?
          3. Alexaner Arier
            Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 11: 36
            +1
            superior weapons and equipment is a must. it is saving lives first of all. there are striking examples in history of what happens when weapons are superior. Germany has a loss of 8 million. more than half of the casualties are civilians after carpet bombings by flying fortresses and the destruction of cities before the assault with large-caliber artillery. that is, in fact, the army has lost less than 4 million. Germany fought with England, the USSR and the United States, and the losses of these countries are simply gigantic. the small country has exhausted its human and technical resources against the three giants, but by comparing the losses it is clearly seen what the superiority in weapons leads to. Winning countries based on German weapons and equipment made a leap into the future. but looking today we see that Germany’s weapons and equipment are again showing the best performance.
            no political conjuncture forced Canada to buy abrams and they bought leopards.
            France, having overcome all political insanity, decided to purchase assault rifles for the French army from Germany. the first contract for 100 thousand units was paid, and the entire contract may take production for 10 years.
            kawasaki will take harley and davids, if you plant a field for the worst, they will laugh at them and just leave them. American motorcycles have become iconic for a particular group, but none of the professionals near them even stop.
            1. poquello
              poquello 6 May 2017 13: 27
              0
              Quote: Alexaner Arier
              small country has exhausted its human and technical resources against three giants

              come on
              https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Second_wo
              rld_war_europe_1941_map_de.png # / media / File: Second
              _world_war_europe_1941_map_de.png
              1. Alexaner Arier
                Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 13: 41
                +1
                and well, the quantity and nomenclature of aid to American and English products was never advertised. and the help went even before the war between the USSR and Hitler.
                England was doomed, the work of deploying the German army and transferring it from the lamash to the east was the greatest achievement of British intelligence and the churchman personally. Instead of a cruel and shameful defeat and the cessation of the existence of the British Empire, Britain was able to realize the war between the USSR and Hitler.
                but what he promised to draw and how to pout was no longer important. the result is important.
                1. poquello
                  poquello 6 May 2017 13: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Alexaner Arier
                  went before the war between the USSR and Hitler.

                  can be more detailed, as far as I know - there were difficulties with the help at the beginning of the Second World War,
                  I hope the map looked with a "small country"
                  Quote: Alexaner Arier
                  England was doomed

                  it yes, hit the British Hitler
                  1. Alexaner Arier
                    Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 14: 52
                    0
                    and that I should look at a map, the country is small. this is my country.
                    I recommend to see the map of the USSR, the USA and the British Empire before the Second World War. both Canada and Australia are part of the British Empire.
                    I understand the reluctance to get acquainted with alternative sources of information and the truth, but even on the basis of conscientious sources, Germany was able to set up 190 divisions at the beginning of the war and this was the maximum. and it was already counted all the allies, who were no warriors and were simply used to fill the conquered territories.
                    so, at 1 million 900 thousand. sodat from Germany and the allies of the USSR group in the western part of the USSR amounted to 5 million soldiers before the announcement of a complete mobilization.
                    and such a large group was created in 1940 at the ardent request of England, and that this request was still not declassified today. it was billions of pounds and dollars in gold and all possible technical assistance. By the way, this is already in the declassified documents of the USSR and has already been allowed to be published, though a small amount.
                    began to save England, believing that the war with Germany is still needed and if so then let it be funded by England and the United States. Well, the fact that the USSR puts millions of lives in payment does that really interest Stalin, and especially Churchill.
                    the transfer of the army from the lamash looks stupid and illogical, because it was necessary to destroy the main enemy at any cost. insidious and deceitful. Britain. but dull and illogical if you don’t know that the Churchill persuaded Stalin to urgently start a war and hit Germany in the back. and cotroperation began.
                    1. poquello
                      poquello 6 May 2017 15: 15
                      0
                      Quote: Alexaner Arier
                      so, at 1 million 900 thousand. sodat from Germany and the allies of the USSR group in the western part of the USSR amounted to 5 million soldiers before the announcement of a complete mobilization.

                      those 2 million group attacked 5 million?
                      1. Alexaner Arier
                        Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 15: 23
                        0
                        And with what success. but it’s even in Soviet sources. and even in Soviet sources there are the number of prisoners in the first year of the war.
                    2. poquello
                      poquello 6 May 2017 16: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Alexaner Arier
                      steel saved England believing that war with Germany is still needed

                      so you agree before the Soviet attack on Germany, but history says the opposite
                      1. Alexaner Arier
                        Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 17: 54
                        0
                        history is written by those who won the war, and because they need and profitable.
                        Of course, Hitler attacked the USSR, this is a real story, but attacked because Churchill persuaded Stalin to start a war with Hitler and hit him in the back within six months.
                        huge funds were allocated for this war from England and the United States in gold and all possible technical support and supply.
                        the Britons entered into an agreement with Stalin and paid billions in gold and then leaked all the information to German intelligence in originals that left no doubt. this was the ultimate goal of the whole operation.
                        Hitler simply had no choice. with such quantitative opportunities and with such funding and equipment, products and technical support, the Red Army became not only gigantic, but also super-equipped.
                        Germany perceived the USSR as an ally and shared with the USSR technology for the production of a tank diesel engine, modern aircraft, and aircraft engines. this made Britons furious.
                        read where the equipment was supplied for the production of tanks and aircraft before the war. artillery including. at first there was not a 45ct but a German 37mm gun. and so on. Stalin turned out to be a traitor and got a blow from the back of Germany in order to save the Britons.
            2. poquello
              poquello 6 May 2017 13: 41
              0
              Quote: Alexaner Arier
              looking today we see that Germany’s weapons and equipment are again showing the best performance.

              in how, but is there anything close to Germany to the PP2000, so that bursts, aiming with one hand, as in the films with Chuck Noris, is only really not a movie?
              1. Alexaner Arier
                Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 15: 03
                0
                Mr -5. evaluated and ordered by special services and special forces of many countries. including SAS. produced in several countries under license.
                the only real competitor to the ultrasound.
                someone buys a P-2000 ??? even in Russia small-scale production has been curtailed due to the fact that there are no orders. those. indicators did not interest anyone and did not impress. even with a machine gun, glock is better. although glock is still a gun with the possibility of fire bursts.
                1. poquello
                  poquello 6 May 2017 16: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Alexaner Arier
                  Mr -5. evaluated and ordered by special services and special forces of many countries.

                  yeah, we are waiting for the next Chuck Noris with two mr-5, though again in hollywood
                  1. Alexaner Arier
                    Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 18: 02
                    0
                    I see you are a little upset because you did not know the market leaders and their characteristics. to compare mediocre crafts with leaders is a thankless task. but there is a position, now you are familiar with works of art in the weapons section.
                    Thanks to Britain, the MP5 submachine gun gained such worldwide popularity. Used by the SAS special forces in many world conflicts, he showed that he is equally good in the wet jungle and in the sultry sands of deserts. After 10 years, it is adopted by almost 15 countries, and today this submachine gun is in almost every anti-terrorist unit in the world.
                    1. poquello
                      poquello 6 May 2017 18: 55
                      0
                      Quote: Alexaner Arier
                      I see you are a little upset because you did not know the market leaders and their characteristics

                      no, it’s you who are limited to Heklerköh’s advertising, popular does not mean better features, because then there is no better Kalash machine
                      1. Alexaner Arier
                        Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 19: 06
                        0
                        Well, for a soldier with a primitive moss and with his left hands drifting, he is certainly better. but such soldiers need a very, very many. the losses will be colossal, since the effectiveness of enemy weapons is many times better.
                        that is, if you choose the minimum loss for yourself and the maximum defeat of the enemy, then you need a different weapon.
                        and the Defense Ministry understands this in principle, but there is nothing to replace.
                        they are looking for a replacement, the situation does not allow to recognize and buy the best, but there is no way to produce it ourselves. Here comes the eternal modernization and statements that there is an alternative to Kalashnikov in Russia. in fact, everything hung and no one knows what to do.
                        Kalashnikov and the Mauser rifle were relevant until the end of the fifties.
                  2. Alexaner Arier
                    Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 18: 07
                    0
                    MP-5 became especially popular after the whole world saw them in the hands of British SAS commandos during anti-terrorist operations to liberate the Iranian embassy in England in the 1970s and several others. Currently, the MP-5 in various modifications is in service with the police forces of many European countries, including Spain, Great Britain, Germany. MP-5 is in the US police, the Navy and the US Marine Corps, and many more where. In addition to Germany itself, the MP-5 is produced under license in Greece, Mexico, Pakistan, and Turkey. By the way, of the post-war designs, ultrasound is probably the only competitor of the MR-5 in terms of the number of produced samples in its class.

                    In addition to a very successful marketing policy of the company, the success of the MP-5 is due to such properties as reliability, ease of use, and high firing accuracy. Especially for US law enforcement agencies (including the FBI), in the 1990s, limited quantities of the MP-5 were released for the more powerful 10mm Auto and .40S & W cartridges. These options are easily distinguished from the 9mm models thanks to the straight box magazines made of plastic (9mm models have steel magazines).
              2. Alexaner Arier
                Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 15: 06
                0
                mr-7 is a very specific weapon for narrow special use. a chic machine and a lot of buyers, but this is really a narrow range.
                and MP-5 is a celebrity and is an appreciated work of art in the world of weapons.
    2. denis02135
      denis02135 5 May 2017 02: 14
      0
      Dear kosopooz77

      Quote: kosopooz77
      A pistol for the army is European. Before the Sauer, they have military men, it seems the Berettas armed


      The factory is located in the states as well as Beretta.
    3. mishaia_23
      mishaia_23 5 May 2017 08: 52
      0
      Yes, no Colt M1911 sample, therefore, 1911

      But the truth is under the cartridge .45 ACP (11,43 × 23 mm).
      Sighting range of 50 meters.
      Shop on 7 ammo
  4. faterdom
    faterdom 4 May 2017 21: 21
    +3
    The pulling force is almost 3 kg. Tight for accurate shooting, but 2kg just right. Although, from random shots better than 3kg.
    1. corporal
      corporal 4 May 2017 21: 55
      +1
      Quote: faterdom
      Although, from random shots better than 3kg.

      From random shots on this model there is a fuse. It can be seen in the photo.
      1. faterdom
        faterdom 4 May 2017 23: 07
        +1
        Who are you? About the fuse? There is also a fuse on the PM, and have you never heard of random shots allowed?
  5. Alexaner Arier
    Alexaner Arier 4 May 2017 21: 30
    +2
    pistols are not very bad, but the Walthers, especially for the army, bypass everyone, and how the Americans choose weapons is a muddy matter. all the same, politics and kickbacks always decide the matter.
    special units of the police, army and special services have the opportunity to choose and buy weapons themselves, they always choose the really best because they need to survive.
    1. poquello
      poquello 4 May 2017 22: 25
      +1
      Quote: Alexaner Arier
      special units of the police, army and special services have the opportunity to choose and buy weapons themselves, they always choose the really best because they need to survive.

      subjectively better, those are more individual choices
      1. Alexaner Arier
        Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 11: 17
        0
        subjectively, this is when everyone chooses different things for himself and himself. and special forces order hundreds and thousands. on modern weapons you can always put any canopy suitable for you. it is included.
        for example, when buying a R-99, the box contains different pads on the handle of the gun.
        someone has a bigger hand, someone has a smaller one.
        1. poquello
          poquello 6 May 2017 13: 30
          0
          Quote: Alexaner Arier
          special forces order hundreds and thousands

          you have grenades of the wrong system
          1. Alexaner Arier
            Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 13: 44
            0
            too large ???
            1. poquello
              poquello 6 May 2017 14: 38
              0
              Quote: Alexaner Arier
              too large ???

              exactly a thousand is no longer an individual order
              1. Alexaner Arier
                Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 18: 15
                0
                definitely not individual. and a couple of hundred is no longer individual. but not army. for example, France ordered 100 assault rifles in Germany in the first batch, and the total order will last 000 years or more and will be more than 10 pieces according to preliminary estimates. and finally can exceed one million.
    2. Abalon
      Abalon 5 May 2017 12: 54
      0
      Do not tell me in what army the Walters are armed?
      1. Alexaner Arier
        Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 11: 12
        0
        Google to help. start with the R-38 familiarity with the Walters. today it is an icon and a dream of many. chic indicators reliability.
  6. Holoy
    Holoy 4 May 2017 22: 58
    0
    US law enforcement agencies are armed with a new pistol. U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps commands officially adopted the M17 pistol - a modification of the SIG Sauer P320

    And where is the Ground Forces ????
    1. corporal
      corporal 4 May 2017 23: 39
      0
      Quote: Holoy
      And where is the Ground Forces ????

      Either the author forgot to mention, or they will still run with the M9. request
      1. Alexaner Arier
        Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 11: 54
        +1
        there is not enough money for everyone. the funniest thing is that many military and us army officers in private ownership have weapons much better than in the service. salaries allow you to have an arsenal at home. and retirees often buy heavy weapons. this is out of the loop — an unusual near.
  7. Izotovp
    Izotovp 5 May 2017 00: 59
    0
    Interestingly, and any sample of Western weapons could pass our tests? I only heard about AW.
    1. Alexaner Arier
      Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 11: 49
      0
      and you ask what the elite buy. and especially interesting why.
      large and serious shooting ranges with a good roof, have a very wide arsenal of weapons.
      I recommend to go and try. as they say until you know it yourself.
      Lada is also a car, but until you sit in a Mercedes it is not clear what the difference is.
      1. Izotovp
        Izotovp 6 May 2017 17: 47
        0
        Interested in. If there is information, I will be grateful.
        Sincerely.
        1. Alexaner Arier
          Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 19: 15
          0
          from time to time there is little information about the procurement of foreign weapons in the special forces of Russia, the police, the FSB. army. wide coverage of such purchases is not welcome.
          I also read that employees, for their money, also order armor.
          those who are on the cutting edge are allowed to purchase.
        2. Alexaner Arier
          Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 19: 21
          0
          Declaring the intention to equip sniper units with modern models as soon as possible, the Ministry of Defense began mass purchase of imported samples of sniper weapons. To date, the volume of contracts of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on foreign-made sniper weapons has amounted to over 2,5 billion rubles; more than 1500 rifles have been purchased. In addition to the Ministry of Defense, other law enforcement agencies are involved in the import of sniper weapons - the FSB, FSO, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

          The main purchased samples were initially the AW (Arctic Warfare) rifles of the British company Accuracy International (chambered for .308 Win and .338 Lapua Magnum), Finnish rifles Sako TRG 22 and 42 of similar calibres, Truvelo .50BMG (South Africa) 12,7 mm caliber . Then the Ministry of Defense held formal tenders for the purchase of rifles, the conditions of which clearly indicated a guaranteed victory for the Austrian rifle Steyr-Mannlicher SSG under the cartridge .308 Win.
          1. Izotovp
            Izotovp 6 May 2017 19: 38
            0
            Thank. I know from snipers. Before that I also saw Belgian detachments at some Caucasian special forces. It’s interesting about the pistols. I heard that the Belarusian special forces in the field from Glokov was not enthusiastic.
            1. Alexaner Arier
              Alexaner Arier 7 May 2017 01: 46
              0
              they also buy pistols, at first they were led by all the glocks, it was good to note that the pistols are really cool, and there are few complaints, the only thing is that low and high temperatures are not recommended for them. during frost, the polymer can simply crack if the gun is not handled well, and at temperatures above +40 and heavy firing, the polymer leads to overheating. the polymer is designed for temperatures up to 200 degrees and high temperatures and firing intensively, such a temperature quickly runs up. in the field, glock does not suffer from water and dirt and is reliable.
              hitting targets requires minimal cost and training. easy to handle. pm requires a lot of training, costs and complies, and yet it is impossible to achieve such results.
              As well as Glock, Walter R-99 is good, but Walther for the army is produced without plastic in the bearing parts. and the endurance to temperatures and the intensity of use does not make you think that weapons may suddenly fail.
              1. Izotovp
                Izotovp 7 May 2017 12: 31
                0
                Thank. What about the Sauers?
                1. Alexaner Arier
                  Alexaner Arier 7 May 2017 13: 19
                  +1
                  in Russia, for some reason, such a thing as a weapon for bad shooters has gone. that is, weapons from which it’s accurate to shoot almost everyone. a little training and a person successfully paralyzes targets at distances up to 50 meters, which is more than enough for a pistol and boasts an excellent result.
                  Sauer is as great a specimen as Glock, Walther or Beretta. Of course, Americans are not fools and Sauer is superior in terms of what they have today. decisive in the choice was not superiority over the closest competitors, but the fact that production is located in the United States and is almost completely localized in the country. Glock in the United States is going. it’s a shame to take Walters and leopards into service. The United States is reluctant to buy Nets weapons and do not advertise purchases. Beretta lost to competitors in operational and technical indicators. but of course insignificantly.
                  these pistols are hard to compare because they are all weapons manufacturers of the artillery. but of course there are small nuances. and this means there is a choice and comparison. Walter, like everyone else, offers pistols with polymer frames and such pistols gain weight, and this will raise a question for the user in which region he will use the weapon and is it really important that there is a slight difference in weight.
                  for example, in Afghanistan, reconnaissance groups may fall more than 60% in cold weather at high altitudes and in heat in valleys
                  during frost, the polymer may crack, the working temperature of the polymer in the plus zone is up to 200 degrees. that at a temperature of +50 air and intense shooting will be quickly achieved by a pistol.
                  R -99 and its modernized models for the army do not have such shortcomings. reliability is absolute.
                  1. Izotovp
                    Izotovp 7 May 2017 16: 15
                    0
                    Thank you.
                  2. Izotovp
                    Izotovp 9 May 2017 09: 13
                    0
                    It seems that 9 * 19 taxis on the battlefield uncontested?
  8. fif21
    fif21 5 May 2017 07: 32
    +1
    Tastes differ. wassat I personally like foreign more Glock what But the PM is morally obsolete a long time ago, and even the Yarygin don’t take something into service, but how are things going with the Lebedev? hi
    1. Alexaner Arier
      Alexaner Arier 6 May 2017 11: 43
      0
      pm this is a purely police pistol, and only for patrol foot police. good against drunk and wow.
      and the rest is semi-finished products and the success that sometime finalize the dubious.
  9. fif21
    fif21 5 May 2017 07: 56
    0
    And here are the news from the Russian Federation Lebedev and Yarygin
    1. WUA 518
      WUA 518 5 May 2017 09: 40
      +2
      The second photo of the Chinese gun QSZ-92 is exported under the designation CF-98-9.
      1. fif21
        fif21 5 May 2017 10: 22
        0
        And who "licked" anyone? recourse
        1. WUA 518
          WUA 518 5 May 2017 10: 41
          +1
          Quote: fif21
          And who "licked" anyone?

          Here you can argue ad infinitum
          Pistol NORINCO Model 77B (China)
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. poquello
    poquello 6 May 2017 19: 03
    0
    Quote: Alexaner Arier
    And with what success. but it’s even in Soviet sources. and even in Soviet sources there are the number of prisoners in the first year of the war.

    and also the brain must be present in the head when you read the sources, doesn’t it reach that an attack requires an advantage, this is the rule
    1. Alexaner Arier
      Alexaner Arier 7 May 2017 02: 10
      0
      this rule is for primitive armies. with superior weapons and trained soldiers, it’s not number that wins, but skill.
      the German infantry divisions as well as the allied divisions were two times smaller in number than the Soviet. and often the Soviet divisions were three and four times the number. everything is compact in europe.
      on the other hand, the German infantry units were saturated with excellent machine guns and anti-tank small-caliber cannons in excess, which made it easy to mow the enemy tanks and infantry, so even death with a scythe was horrified.
      the war in Spain showed what the army needed and how the army should use new weapons.
      and the number of captured Red Army soldiers in the first year of the war amounted to 2,5 million soldiers and officers. This can also be done in the Soviet archive and other Soviet sources.
      1. poquello
        poquello 7 May 2017 21: 14
        0
        Quote: Alexaner Arier
        this rule is for primitive armies. with superior weapons and trained soldiers, it’s not number that wins, but skill.

        Wow, victory is not a number, but a skill inscribed in the academy and they are taught to the command staff .... maybe give an example
        1. Alexaner Arier
          Alexaner Arier 7 May 2017 21: 50
          0
          a small commandant I don’t remember exactly which Japanese island in 1945 having 29 soldiers was attacked by 000 troops and surrendered.
          and German troops often attacked superior enemy forces.
          prisoners in the first year of the war were almost equal in number to the size of the German army. there was a threat of rebellion as well as the problem of feeding and keeping them. In the first half of 1941, the troops closing the boilers were several times smaller in numbers than those who ended up in the boilers. by the way a lot and therefore came out of the boilers, but mediocre and with huge losses.
          But in general, there are many successful armies who fought with the skill. Karl 12, Frederick the Great, Napoleon, Suvorov.
          just lay down the corpses of the masses of soldiers, this is not a military art. but we often saw such, such victories are called pyrrhic. the classic commander to put to death a mass of soldiers was beetles. for this he was very disliked by horses, Rokosovsky, Chernyshevsky ...............
          1. poquello
            poquello 8 May 2017 00: 33
            0
            Quote: Alexaner Arier
            Napoleon, Suvorov.

            it’s just that they are written about these and their ability to fight in textbooks, rather than balabol in dubious fiction, the fascist group had three times superiority in manpower, which, given the experience, careful study of operations and problems of the Red Army, looks quite plausible when moving to Moscow. If you want to believe in fairy tales - believe, I don’t see the point in continuing the conversation.
            1. Alexaner Arier
              Alexaner Arier 8 May 2017 19: 59
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              I do not need to believe, except for the Soviet archives of the open which are falsified, there are Soviet archives closed from which the truth has only now begun to come out and some strange people are very unhappy with this truth. as if, if you don’t know the truth and live with a lie, the truth and reality will be different.
              I do not in any case expect that people will realize the meanness of a lie, since they are evading the truth. but you can get acquainted with the data that begins to rise from the secret archives.
              but I just believe, the unmistakeable archives are open. a lot of what was important to the British and Americans was simply withdrawn, but what is open to all interested. Incidentally, their archives regarding the Soviet Union, the United States and England are open for the most part.
              closed only then it will comment on them in relations with the USSR.
              so there was never any superiority in manpower and technology. and even Russian researchers wrote about it. there was the superiority of weapons and training, as well as combat experience.
  12. poquello
    poquello 6 May 2017 21: 45
    0
    Quote: Alexaner Arier
    that is, if you choose the minimum loss for yourself and the maximum defeat of the enemy, then you need a different weapon.

    about how, but the soldiers in Syria do not know
    1. Alexaner Arier
      Alexaner Arier 7 May 2017 02: 14
      0
      What kind of fighters in Syria ?? Do they have a choice and opportunities ???
      1. poquello
        poquello 7 May 2017 21: 33
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        Quote: Alexaner Arier
        What kind of fighters in Syria ?? Do they have a choice and opportunities ???

        Yes, somehow it’s violet to me, about the choice and the possibilities, as you don’t look at shooting the database - solid Kalash, oh right now, specialists from MP-5 and so forth will quickly kill everyone, but that's not the point - they said something about popularity
        1. Alexaner Arier
          Alexaner Arier 8 May 2017 20: 05
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          that’s exactly the point, is there any choice and opportunity. when they are there is a choice. but no, then there can be no choice.
          when German weapons appear in Syria, an investigation will automatically begin in Germany, and someone will receive punishment or sanctions. in Georgia there was a small amount of G-36 in mobile execution, and that was the investigation, they found all intermediaries and more of them no one will ever buy weapons in Germany again. and Russia and the United States arrange sales around the world and even bring some philosophy under it. Germany outlived this philosophy after the destruction of Nazism.
  13. Waltherfun
    Waltherfun 8 July 2017 23: 12
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    How can you write such nonsense. author? With a half-billionth contract, a gun cannot cost more than a unit-sold option (even taking into account a small revision). M17 (SIG 320) will cost only $ 217 apiece (it is precisely the same price that you bring "civilian"). Almost 500 thousand were ordered (and not 280):
    + 280,000 handguns, according to Program Executive Office Soldier officials.
    + approximately 7,000 sub-compact versions of the handgun.
    + other military services participating ... additional 212,000 systems above the Army quantity.
    For total cost 169,527,169 $ , which is 100 million cheaper than Glock ($ 272, .232,563) - This is where the “guarantees” and taxes are taken into account. And the rest is accessories, spare parts and even holsters from SIG (!) And huge number of rounds (one of the factors of winning SIG with its production of cartridges).

    -