Military Review

Losses of the USSR and Germany in the Second World War

92
Before embarking on explanations, statistics, etc., let's explain right away what is meant. This article discusses the losses suffered by the Red Army, Wehrmacht and troops of the Third Reich satellite countries, as well as the civilian population of the USSR and Germany, only in the period from 22.06.1941 until the end of hostilities in Europe (unfortunately, in the case of Germany it is almost impossible to execute) . The Soviet-Finnish war and the “liberation” campaign of the Red Army were deliberately excluded. The issue of losses of the USSR and Germany was repeatedly raised in the press, endless disputes are going on the Internet and on television, but researchers of this issue cannot come to a common denominator, because, as a rule, all arguments are reduced to emotional and politicized statements. This once again proves how painful this question is in the domestic stories. The purpose of the article is not to “clarify” the final truth in this matter, but to attempt to summarize the various data contained in disparate sources. The right to make a conclusion is given to the reader.


With all the diversity of literature and network resources about the Great Patriotic War, ideas about it are largely affected by a certain superficiality. The main reason for this is the ideology of this or that research or work, and it doesn’t matter whether it is a communist or anti-communist ideology. The interpretation of such a grand event in the light of any ideology is deliberately false.

It is especially bitter to read lately that the 1941 – 45 war. It was only a clash between two totalitarian regimes, where one, they say, quite corresponded to the other. We will try to look at this war from the point of view of the most justifiable - geopolitical.

Losses of the USSR and Germany in the Second World War

Germany 30-s, with all its Nazi "features", directly and unswervingly continued the powerful desire for primacy in Europe, which for centuries determined the path of the German nation. Even the purely liberal German sociologist Max Weber wrote during World War 1: “... we, 70 million Germans ... are bound to be an empire. We must do this, even if we are afraid of losing. ” The roots of this aspiration of the Germans are rooted back centuries, as a rule, the Nazi’s appeal to medieval and even pagan Germany is interpreted as a purely ideological event, as the construction of a myth mobilizing the nation.

From my point of view, everything is more complicated: it was the Germanic tribes who created the empire of Charlemagne, later on the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation was formed on its foundation. And it was the “empire of the German nation” that created what is called the “European civilization” and began the aggressive policy of Europeans from the sacramental “Drang nach osten” - “onslaught to the east”, because half of the “native” German lands belonged to the 8 – 10 centuries Slavic tribes. Therefore, the assignment of the name “Barbarossa Plan” to the plan of war against the “barbarous” USSR is not a coincidence. This ideology of “primacy” of Germany as the fundamental force of the “European” civilization was the primary cause of the two world wars. And at the beginning of World War II, Germany was able to really (albeit briefly) accomplish her aspiration.

When invading a particular European country, the German troops met with amazing resistance and weakness in their weakness and indecision. Short-term fights of armies of the European countries with the German troops invading their borders, with the exception of Poland, were more likely the observance of a certain “custom” of war than actual resistance.

A great deal has been written about the blown European “resistance movement”, which would have allegedly inflicted tremendous damage on Germany and testified that Europe had flatly rejected its unification under German supremacy. But, with the exception of Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland and Greece, the scale of the Resistance is the same ideological myth. Undoubtedly, the regime established by Germany in the occupied countries did not suit the general population. In Germany itself, too, there was resistance to the regime, but in neither case was this the resistance of the country and the nation as a whole. For example, in the resistance movement in France for 5 years, 20 thousands of people died; For the same 5 years, about 50 thousands of French people who fought on the German side died, that is, 2,5 times more!


In Soviet times, the hyperbolization of the Resistance was introduced into the minds as a useful ideological myth, saying that the whole of Europe supported our struggle against Germany. In fact, as already mentioned, only 4 countries had a serious resistance to the invaders, which is explained by their “patriarchal nature”: they were alien not so much to the “German” order imposed by the Reich, but to the European, because these countries were not belonged to the European civilization (although geographically included in Europe).

Thus, by the year 1941, almost the entire continental Europe, one way or another, but without any particular upheaval, became part of the new empire with Germany at the head. Almost half of the existing two dozen European countries — Spain, Italy, Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Finland, Croatia — together with Germany entered the war against the USSR, sending their armed forces to the Eastern Front (Denmark and Spain without formal announcement war). The rest of the European countries did not take part in military operations against the USSR, but somehow “worked” on Germany, or rather on the newly formed European Empire. The misconception about the events in Europe made us completely forget about many real events of that time. For example, Anglo-American troops commanded by Eisenhower in November 1942 in North Africa fought at first not with the Germans, but with the two hundred thousandth army of the French, despite a quick "victory" (Jean Darlan, due to the apparent superiority of the Allied forces, ordered the French troops to surrender) 584 Americans, British British 597 and French 1600 killed in the fighting. Of course, these are meager losses on the scale of the entire Second World War, but they show that the situation was somewhat more complicated than they usually think.

The Red Army in the battles on the Eastern Front captured half a million prisoners who are citizens of countries that seem not to have fought with the USSR! It may be objected that these are the “victims” of German violence, which has driven them into Russian expanses. But the Germans were not more stupid than us and they would hardly have allowed an unreliable contingent to the front. And while the next great and multinational army was victorious in Russia, Europe was, on the whole, on its side. Franz Halder, in his 30 diary, June 1941, wrote down Hitler's words: “European unity as a result of a joint war against Russia”. And Hitler quite correctly estimated the situation. In fact, the geopolitical goals of the war against the USSR were carried out not only by the Germans, but by 300 million Europeans united on various grounds - from forced submission to the desired cooperation - but, one way or another, acting jointly. Only by relying on continental Europe did the Germans mobilize 25% of the entire population into the army (for reference: the USSR mobilized 17% of its citizens). In short, the strength and technical equipment of the army that invaded the USSR was provided by tens of millions of skilled workers from all over Europe.


Why did I need such a long introduction? The answer is simple. Finally, one must realize that the USSR fought not only with the German Third Reich, but with almost all of Europe. Unfortunately, the eternal "Russophobia" of Europe was superimposed with the fear of the "creepy beast" - Bolshevism. Many volunteers from European countries who fought in Russia fought precisely with the alien communist ideology. No fewer of them were conscious haters of "inferior" Slavs infected with the plague of racial superiority. Modern German historian R. Ryurup writes:

"Many documents of the Third Reich imprinted the image of the enemy - Russian, deeply rooted in German history and society. Such views were characteristic even of officers and soldiers who were not convinced or enthusiastic Nazis. They (these soldiers and officers) also shared ideas about" the eternal struggle "of the Germans ... about the protection of European culture from the" Asian hordes ", the cultural vocation and the right to rule the Germans in the East. The image of an enemy of this type was widespread in Germany, he belonged to stam "".

And this geopolitical consciousness was not peculiar to the Germans, as such. After 22 June 1941, volunteer legions appear on the leash, later turning into SS divisions Nordland (Scandinavian), Langemark (Belgian-Flemish), Charlemagne (French). Guess where they defended "European civilization"? True, quite far from Western Europe, in Belarus, in Ukraine, in Russia. German professor K. Pfeffer wrote in 1953 year: “Most volunteers from Western Europe went to the Eastern Front because they saw this as a GENERAL task for the whole West ...” But with the forces of almost all of Europe, the USSR was destined to face, and not only Germany, and the clash was not “two totalitarianisms,” but a “civilized and progressive” Europe with a “barbaric state of subhumans” that had long frightened Europeans from the east.




1. USSR losses

According to official census 1939 of the year, 170 million people lived in the USSR - significantly more than in any other single European country. The entire population of Europe (without the USSR) was 400 million. By the beginning of World War II, the population of the Soviet Union differed from the population of future adversaries and allies with a high mortality rate and low life expectancy. However, a high birth rate ensured a significant increase in population (2% in 1938 – 39). Also, the difference from Europe was in the youth of the USSR population: the proportion of children younger than 15 was 35%. This feature allowed relatively quickly (in the 10 years) to restore the pre-war population. The share of the urban population was only 32% (for comparison: in the UK - more than 80%, in France - 50%, in Germany - 70%, in the USA - 60%, and only in Japan it had the same value as in THE USSR).

In 1939, the population of the USSR increased markedly after the new regions entered the country (Western Ukraine and Belarus, the Baltic States, Bukovina and Bessarabia), whose population ranged from 20 [1] to 22,5 [2] million. The total population of the USSR, according to the CSB certificate on 1 January 1941, was determined in 198 588 thousand people (including the RSFSR - 111 745 thousand people). According to modern estimates, it was still less, and on 1 June 41, it was 196,7 million people.

Population size of some countries in 1938 – 40

USSR - 170,6 (196,7) million people;
Germany - 77,4 million;
France - 40,1 million;
United Kingdom - 51,1 million;
Italy - 42,4 million;
Finland - 3,8 million;
USA - 132,1 million;
Japan - 71,9 million.

By 1940, the population of the Reich increased to 90 million, and taking into account the satellites and the conquered countries - 297 million. By December 1941, the USSR had lost 7% of the territory of the country where 74,5 million people lived before the start of the Second World War. This again emphasizes that despite the assurances of Hitler, the USSR had no advantage in human resources over the Third Reich.


For all the time of the Great Patriotic War in our country 34,5 million people wore military uniforms. This was about 70% of the total number of males aged 15 – 49 in 1941 years. The number of women in the Red Army was about 500 thousands. A higher percentage of those called up was only in Germany, but as we said earlier, the Germans covered the labor shortage at the expense of European workers and prisoners of war. In the USSR, such a deficit was covered by increased working hours and the widespread use of the labor of women, children and the elderly.

For a long time, the USSR did not speak about the direct irretrievable losses of the Red Army. In a private conversation, Marshal Konev in 1962 year named the number 10 million people [3], a famous defector - Colonel Kalinov, who fled to the West in 1949 year - 13,6 million people [4]. The figure in 10 million was published in the French version of the book “Wars and Population” by B. Ts. Urlanis, a famous Soviet demographer. The authors of the well-known monograph "The Vulture is lifted" (ed. G. Krivosheev) in 1993 year and in 2001 year published the number 8,7 million people, at the moment in most reference books it is indicated. But the authors themselves state that they do not include there: 500 ths. Of military service, called up for mobilization and captured by the enemy, but not enlisted in the lists of units and formations. Also, the almost completely dead militiamen of Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev and other major cities are not taken into account. Currently, the most complete lists of irretrievable losses of Soviet soldiers are 13,7 million people, but approximately 12-15% of records are repeated. According to the article “Dead Souls of the Great Patriotic War” (“NG”, 22.06.99), the historical and archival search center “Fate” of the association “War Memorials” has established that due to double and even triple counting, the number of dead warriors 43 and 2 The assault armies in the battles investigated by the center were inflated by 10-12%. Since these figures refer to the period when accounting for losses in the Red Army was not thorough enough, it can be assumed that in the whole war, due to double counting, the number of Red Army soldiers who died was overestimated by approximately 5 – 7%, i.e. by 0,2 – 0,4 million people


On the issue of prisoners. The American researcher A. Dallin according to German archive data estimates their number in 5,7 million. Of these, 3,8 million died in captivity, that is, 63% [5]. Russian historians estimate the number of captured Red Army soldiers in 4,6 million, of whom 2,9 million died. [6] Unlike German sources, this does not include civilians (for example, railroad workers), as well as seriously wounded left on the battlefield occupied by the enemy, and subsequently died from wounds or shot (around 470-500 ths. [7]). The position of prisoners of war was especially desperate in the first year of the war, when more than half of their total number was captured (2,8 million), on behalf of Re ha. Camps in the open air, hunger and cold, disease and lack of medicine, cruel treatment, mass executions of the sick and unable to work, and just all unwanted, first of all, commissars and Jews. Not coping with the flow of prisoners and guided by political and propaganda motives, the invaders in 1941 dismissed over 300 thousands of prisoners of war, mostly natives of western Ukraine and Belarus, to their homes. In the future, this practice was discontinued.

Also, do not forget that approximately 1 million prisoners of war were transferred from captivity to the auxiliary units of the Wehrmacht [8]. In many cases for the prisoners it was the only chance to survive. Again, most of these people, according to German data, at the first opportunity tried to desert from the units and formations of the Wehrmacht [9]. The local auxiliary forces of the German army stood out:

1) volunteer helpers (hiwi)
2) Service Order (ODI)
3) Front Auxiliary Parts (Noise)
4) police and defense teams (heme).

At the beginning of the 1943, the Wehrmacht acted: up to 400, thousand hivi, from 60 to 70, thousand odi, and 80, thousand in the eastern battalions.

Some of the prisoners of war and the population of the occupied territories made a conscious choice in favor of cooperation with the Germans. So, in the SS division "Galicia" on 13 000 "places" were 82 000 volunteers. More than 100 thousand Latvians, 36 thousand Lithuanians and 10 thousand Estonians served in the German army, mainly in the SS forces.

In addition, several million people from the occupied territories were hijacked for forced labor in the Reich. ChGK (Emergency State Commission) immediately after the war estimated their number at 4,259 million. Later studies give a figure of 5,45 million, of whom 850-1000 thousand died.

Estimates of direct physical extermination of the civilian population, according to CPG data from 1946.

RSFSR - 706 thous.
USSR - 3256,2 thousand people.
BSSR - 1547 thousand people.
Lit. SSR - 437,5 thous.
Lat SSR - 313,8 thous.
Est. SSR - 61,3 thous.
Mold SSR - 61 thous.
Karelo-Fin. SSR - 8 thous. (10)

Such high figures for Lithuania and Latvia are explained by the fact that there were death camps and concentration camps for prisoners of war there. Huge were the loss of population in the front line during the fighting. However, it is virtually impossible to determine them. The minimum allowable value is the number of people who died in besieged Leningrad, that is, 800 thousand people. In 1942, the infant mortality rate in Leningrad reached 74,8%, that is, about 100 babies died from 75 babies!


Another important question. How many former Soviet citizens after the end of the Great Patriotic War chose not to return to the USSR? According to Soviet archival data, the number of "second emigration" was 620 thousand people. 170 000 - Germans, Bessarabians and Bukovina, 150 000 - Ukrainians, 109 000 - Latvians, 230 000 - Estonians and Lithuanians, and only 32 000 Russians [11]. Today this estimate seems to be clearly undervalued. According to modern data, emigration from the USSR amounted to 1,3 million. This gives us a difference of almost 700 thousand, previously referred to as permanent population loss [12].

So, what are the losses of the Red Army, the civilian population of the USSR and the general demographic losses in the Great Patriotic War. For twenty years, the main estimate was “pulled” by N. Khrushchev’s figure 20 million people. In 1990, as a result of the work of the special commission of the General Staff and the State Statistics Committee of the USSR, a more reasonable estimate appears in 26,6 million. At the moment it is official. Attention is drawn to the fact that even in 1948, the American sociologist Timashev gave an estimate of the losses of the USSR in the war, which almost coincided with the estimate of the commission of the General Staff. Also, the estimate of Maksudov made by him in 1977 year coincides with the data of the Krivosheev Commission. According to the Commission G. G. Krivosheev [13].



So let's summarize:

Postwar assessment of Red Army casualties: 7 million.
Timashev: Red Army - 12,2 mln. People, civilians 14,2 mln. People, direct human losses 26,4 mln. People, general demographic 37,3 mln. [14]
Arntz and Khrushchev: Human Direct: 20 million people [15]
Biraben and Solzhenitsyn: Red Army 20 million, civilian population 22,6 million, direct human 42,6 million, general demographic 62,9 million [16]
Maksudov: Red Army - 11,8 million people, civilian population 12,7 million people, direct human losses 24, 5 million people It is impossible not to say that S. Maksudov (A. P. Babenyshev, Harvard University, USA) the spacecraft determined the combat losses of the spacecraft at 8,8 million [17]
Rybakovsky: direct human 30 million [18]
Andreev, Darskiy, Kharkov (General Staff, Krivosheev Commission): direct combat losses of the Red Army 8,7 million (11, 994 including prisoners of war) pers. The civilian population (including prisoners of war) 17,9 million people. Direct casualties 26,6 million [19]
B. Sokolov: Red Army losses - 26 million [20]
M. Harrison: total losses of the USSR - 23,9 - 25,8 million.

What do we have in the "dry" residue? We will be guided by simple logic.

The estimate of the losses of the Red Army, given in 1947 year (7 million) is not credible, because not all calculations, even with the imperfection of the Soviet system, were completed.

Khrushchev's assessment is also not confirmed. On the other hand, the “Solzhenitsynsky” 20 million people are just as unjustified as losses of the army or even 44 million (without denying A. Solzhenitsyn’s talent as a writer, all the facts and figures in his works are not confirmed by a single document and understand where he comes from took - impossible).

Boris Sokolov is trying to convince us that the loss of only the armed forces of the USSR amounted to 26 million. He is guided by the indirect method of calculation. The losses of the officers of the Red Army are fairly well known, according to Sokolov, these are 784 thousand people (1941 – 44) Mr. Sokolov, referring to the average statistical losses of Wehrmacht officers on the Eastern front of 62500 people (1941 – 44), and Muller-Hillebrant data , displays the ratio of the losses of the officer corps to the ordinary composition of the Wehrmacht, as 1: 25, that is, 4%. And, without a doubt, extrapolates this technique to the Red Army, receiving its 26 millions of irretrievable losses. However, such an approach on closer examination turns out to be initially false. Firstly, 4% officers losses are not the upper limit, for example, in the Polish campaign the Wehrmacht lost 12% officers to total losses of the Armed Forces. Secondly, Mr. Sokolov would be well aware that with the staff size of the German infantry regiment in 3049 there were officers in it, there were 75 people, that is, 2,5%. And in the Soviet infantry regiment with the number of 1582 man - officers 159 man, ie, 10%. Third, appealing to the Wehrmacht, Sokolov forgets that the more combat experience in the troops, the less loss among the officers. In the Polish campaign, the losses of the German officers were −12%, in the French - 7%, and on the Eastern Front already 4%.

The same can be applied to the Red Army: if at the end of the war the losses of officers (not according to Sokolov, but according to statistics) were 8-9%, then at the beginning of the Second World War they could be 24%. It turns out, like a schizophrenic, everything is logical and correct, only the initial premise is incorrect. Why did we dwell on Sokolov’s theory in such detail? Yes, because Mr. Sokolov very often presents his figures in the media.

In view of the above, by discarding the obviously underestimated and overestimated loss estimates, we get: The Krivosheev Commission - 8,7 million people (with 11,994 million prisoners of war 2001 data), Maksudov - the losses are even slightly lower than the official ones - 11,8 million people. (1977 −93 years), Timashev - 12,2 million people. (1948). This can also be attributed to the opinion of M. Harrison, at the level of total losses indicated to them, the losses of the army must fit into this gap. These data were obtained by various calculation methods, since both Timashev and Maksudov, respectively, did not have access to the archives of the USSR and Russia. It seems that the losses of the USSR Armed Forces in the Great Patriotic War lie very close to such a "heap" group of results. Let's not forget that these figures include 2,6 – 3,2 million Soviet prisoners of war destroyed.


In conclusion, we should probably agree with the opinion of Maksudov that the number of losses should exclude the emigration outflow, which amounted to 1,3 million, which was not taken into account in the study of the General Staff. At this value, and should reduce the loss of the USSR in the Second World War. In percentage terms, the loss structure of the USSR looks like this:

41% - aircraft losses (including prisoners of war)
35% - aircraft losses (without prisoners of war, i.e. direct combat)
39% - population losses in the occupied territories and front-line (45% with prisoners of war)
8% - population of the rear
6% - GULAG
6% - emigration outflow.



2. Losses Wehrmacht and SS troops

To date, there are no sufficiently reliable figures for the losses of the German army obtained by direct statistical calculation. This is due to the lack of reliable source statistics on German losses for various reasons.


The picture regarding the number of Wehrmacht prisoners of war on the Soviet-German front is more or less clear. According to Russian sources, Soviet troops captured 3 172 300 soldiers of the Wehrmacht, of which German 2388443 [21] was in the NKVD camps. According to German historians, in the Soviet prisoner of war camps only German soldiers were about 3,1 million [22]. The discrepancy, as you can see, is approximately in 0,7 million. This discrepancy is explained by differences in the estimate of the number of Germans killed in captivity: according to Russian archival documents, Soviet 356 700 Germans died in Soviet captivity, and according to German researchers, about 1,1 million people. It seems that the Russian figure of Germans killed in captivity is more reliable, and the missing 0,7 million of missing Germans and those who did not return from captivity actually died not in captivity, but on the battlefield.


The vast majority of publications devoted to the calculations of combat demographic losses of the Wehrmacht and the SS troops, are based on data from the central bureau (department) of accounting for the losses of the personnel of the armed forces that are part of the German General Staff of the High Command. Moreover, refusing the authenticity of Soviet statistics, the German data are regarded as absolutely reliable. But upon closer examination, it turned out that the opinion of the high reliability of information from this department was greatly exaggerated. Thus, the German historian R. Overmans in the article “The human sacrifices of the Second World War in Germany” concluded that “... the channels for receiving information in the Wehrmacht do not reveal the degree of reliability that some authors attribute to them”. As an example, he reports that “... the service report of the losses department at the Wehrmacht headquarters, relating to 1944, documented that the losses incurred during the Polish, French and Norwegian campaigns and which revealed no technical difficulties twice as high as originally reported. ” According to Müller-Hillebrand, which many researchers believe, the Wehrmacht’s demographic losses were 3,2 million. Another 0,8 million died in captivity [23]. However, according to a certificate from the organizational unit of the OKH from 1 in May 1945, only ground forces, including SS troops (without the Air Force and Navy), for the period from September 1 1939 to May 1 1945 lost 4 million 617,0 thousand people. This is the most recent report on the losses of the Armed Forces of Germany [24]. In addition, since mid-April 1945, there has been no centralized recording of losses. And since the beginning of 1945, the data is incomplete. The fact remains that in one of the latest radio programs with his participation, Hitler announced the figure in 12,5 million of the total losses of the German Armed Forces, of which 6,7 million is irrevocable, which is approximately two times higher than Muller-Hillebrand's data. It was in March 1945 of the year. I do not think that in two months the soldiers of the Red Army did not kill a single German.

In general, the information of the losses department of the Wehrmacht cannot serve as the initial data for calculating the losses of the German Armed Forces in the Great Patriotic War.


There is another loss statistics - the statistics of the burials of Wehrmacht soldiers. According to the annex to the law of Germany "On the preservation of burial sites", the total number of German soldiers stationed in fixed burials in the territory of the Soviet Union and Eastern European countries is 3 million 226 thousand people. (in the territory of the USSR only - 2 330 000 burials). This figure can be taken as a baseline for calculating the demographic losses of the Wehrmacht, however, it also needs to be adjusted.

First, this figure takes into account only the burial of the Germans, and a large number of soldiers of other nationalities fought as part of the Wehrmacht: Austrians (of whom 270 killed thousands of people), Sudeten Germans and Alsatians (killed thousands of people) and representatives of other nationalities and states (killed 230 thousand people.). Of the total number of dead soldiers of the Wehrmacht of non-German nationality, the share of the Soviet-German front is 357-75%, i.e. 80 – 0,6 million people.

Secondly, this figure refers to the beginning of the 90s of the last century. Since then, the search for German burials in Russia, the CIS countries and the countries of Eastern Europe has continued. And appearing on this topic messages were not sufficiently informative. For example, the Russian Association of Military Memorials, established in 1992, reported that during the 10 years of its existence, the German Union for the Care of Military Graves gave information about the graves of 400 to thousands of Wehrmacht soldiers. However, whether it was newly discovered burials or whether they are already taken into account in the 3 million figure. 226 thousand is unclear. Unfortunately, the generalized statistics of the newly discovered burial places of the Wehrmacht soldiers could not be found. Tentatively, it can be assumed that the number of burials of Wehrmacht soldiers newly discovered over the last 10 years is within 0,2 – 0,4 million people.

Thirdly, many graves of dead Wehrmacht soldiers on Soviet soil disappeared or were deliberately destroyed. Approximately in such disappeared and nameless graves 0,4 – 0,6 million Wehrmacht soldiers could be buried.

Fourthly, these data do not include the graves of German soldiers killed in battles with Soviet troops in Germany and in Western European countries. According to R. Overmans, only for the last three spring months of the war, about 1 million people died. (minimum estimate of 700 thousand). In general, approximately 1,2 – 1,5 million Wehrmacht soldiers were killed in the battles with the Red Army on German soil and in Western European countries.

Finally, in the fifth, the Wehrmacht soldiers who died a “natural” death were among those buried (0,1 – 0,2 million)


The articles of Major-General V. Gurkin are devoted to assessing the losses of the Wehrmacht using the balance of the German armed forces during the war years. Its calculated figures are given in the second column of the table. 4. Here, attention is drawn to the two figures describing the number mobilized in the Wehrmacht during the war, and the number of prisoners of war of the Wehrmacht. The number of people mobilized during the war years (17,9 million) was taken from the book by B. Muller-Hillebrand “Land Army of Germany 1933 – 1945”, t.Z. At the same time, V.P. Bokhar believes that the Wehrmacht was called up more - 19 million.

The number of Wehrmacht prisoners of war was determined by V. Gurkin by summing up prisoners of war taken by the Red Army (3,178 million) and Allied forces (4,209 million) before 9 in May 1945. In my opinion, this number is too high: prisoners of war who were not Wehrmacht soldiers were included in it. In the book Paul Karelia and punter Beddekera "German prisoners of World War II," he says: "... In June 1945, the Joint Command of the Allies learned that" the camps is 7 614 794 prisoners and unarmed persons of military personnel, including 4 209 000 the time capitulations were already in captivity. ”Among these 4,2 million German prisoners of war, besides Wehrmacht soldiers, there were many others. For example, in the French camp Vitril-Francois, among the prisoners“ the youngest was 15 years old, the oldest was almost 70 ”. The authors write about the prisoners of folklore, about the organization of special “children's” camps by the Americans, where twelve-thirteen-year-old boys from the “Hitler Youth” and “Werewolf” were taken prisoner. Mention is made of even people with disabilities in the camps. Map »No. 1, 1992) Heinrich Schippmann noted:


“It should be taken into account that not only Wehrmacht soldiers or SS troops, but also air force personnel, members of the Volkssturm or paramilitary unions (the organization“ Todt ”,“ Service Reich Labor ”, etc.). Among them were not only men, but also women - and not only Germans, but also the so-called“ Volksdeutsch ”and“ aliens ”- Croats, Serbs, Cossacks, North and West Europeans, who in any way fought on the side of the German Wehrmacht or ranked it . In addition, during the occupation of Germany in the year 1945 arrested anyone who was in uniform, even if it was about the chief of the railway station. "

In general, among the 4,2 million prisoners of war taken by the allies before 9 in May 1945, approximately 20 −25% were not Wehrmacht soldiers. This means that the Allies were in captivity of 3,1 – 3,3 million Wehrmacht soldiers.

The total number of Wehrmacht soldiers captured before the surrender was 6,3 – 6,5 million.



In general, the demographic combat losses of the Wehrmacht and the SS troops on the Soviet-German front are 5,2 – 6,3 million people, of which 0,36 million died in captivity, and the irretrievable loss (including prisoners) of 8,2 – 9,1 million people. Also, it should be noted that, until recent years, domestic historiography did not mention some data on the number of Wehrmacht prisoners of war at the end of hostilities in Europe, apparently for ideological reasons, because it is much more pleasant to assume that Europe was “fighting” fascism, than to be aware of that some and a very large number of Europeans deliberately fought in the Wehrmacht. So, according to a note by General Antonov, on 25 May 1945. The Red Army captured 5 million 20 thousand only Wehrmacht soldiers, of which until August 600 thousand people were released (Austrians, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes, Poles, etc.) and these prisoners of war were sent to camps NKVD not sent. Thus, the Wehrmacht’s irretrievable losses in the battles with the Red Army can be even higher (on the order of 0,6 - 0,8 million. Persons).

There is another way to "calculate" the losses of Germany and the Third Reich in the war against the USSR. Quite correct by the way. We will try to “substitute” figures relating to Germany in the methodology for calculating the total demographic losses of the USSR. And we will use ONLY the official data of the German side. So, the population of Germany at 1939 was the year according to Müller-Hillebrandt (p. 700 of his work, so beloved by supporters of the theory of “flooding with corpses”) 80,6 million people. At the same time, we, the reader, should take into account that 6,76 million Austrians are included here, and the population of the Sudetenland - another 3,64 million people. That is, the population of Germany itself within the boundaries of 1933 of the year for 1939 was (80,6 - 6,76 - 3,64) 70,2 million people. With these simple mathematical operations sorted out. Further: the natural mortality in the USSR was 1,5% per year, but in the countries of Western Europe, the mortality was much lower and was 0,6 - 0,8% per year, Germany was not an exception. However, the birth rate in the USSR was about the same proportion as the European one, due to which the USSR had consistently high population growth in all the pre-war years, beginning in 1934.


We know about the results of the post-war population census in the USSR, but few know that a similar census was conducted by the Allied occupation authorities on October 29 1946 in Germany. The census gave the following results:

Soviet occupation zone (without the east of Berlin): men - 7, 419 million, women - 9,914 million, total: 17,333 million people.

All western zones of occupation (without West Berlin): men - 20,614 million, women - 24,804 million, total: 45,418 million people.

Berlin (all sectors of occupation), men - 1,29 million, women - 1,89 million, total: 3,18 million.

The total population of Germany is 65? 931? 000 people. The purely arithmetic action of 70,2 million - 66 million seems to be reducing all 4,2 million. However, things are not so simple.

At the time of the census in the USSR, the number of children born since the beginning of 1941, was about 11 million, the birth rate in the USSR during the war years fell sharply and was only 1,37% per year of the pre-war population. The birth rate in Germany and in peacetime did not exceed 2% per year of the population. Suppose she fell just 2 times, and not in 3, as in the USSR. That is, the natural increase in population during the war years and the first post-war year was about 5% of the pre-war number, and in numbers was 3,5 – 3,8 million children. This figure must be added to the total figure of the decline in the population of Germany. Now the arithmetic is different: the total population decline is 4,2 million. + 3,5 million. = 7,7 million. But this is not the final figure; to complete the calculations, we need to take away from the population decline figures the natural death rate during the war years and 1946 year, which is 2,8 million people (take the number 0,8% to be “higher”). Now the total decline in Germany’s population caused by the war is 4,9 million. That, in general, is very "similar" to the number of irretrievable losses of the Reich ground forces, cited by Muller-Gillebrandt. So what did the USSR, having lost millions of its citizens in the war of 26,6, really “flunked the corpses” of its adversary? Patience, dear reader, let's bring our calculations to its logical conclusion.

The fact is that the population of Germany itself grew in 1946, at least by at least 6,5 million, and presumably even by 8 million! By the time of the census 1946 of the year (according to German, by the way, the data of the Union of the Expelled published in 1996 year, only about 15 million Germans were “forcibly moved”) only from Sudetenland, Poznan and Upper Silesia were evicted to Germany 6,5 million Germans. Around 1 - 1,5 million Germans fled from Alsace and Lorraine (unfortunately, there is no more accurate data). That is, these 6,5 - 8 million are to be added to the losses of Germany itself. And these are already “slightly” other numbers: 4,9 million + 7,25 million (arithmetic average of the number of Germans ’expelled to their homeland) = 12,15 million. Actually, this is 17,3% (!) Of the German population in 1939. Well, that's not all!


Once again I will emphasize: The Third Reich is not even Germany at all! By the time of the attack on the USSR, the Third Reich “officially” included: Germany (70,2 million), Austria (6,76 million), the Sudetes (3,64 million) seized from the Baltic Corridor from Poland, Poznan and Upper Silesia (9,36 million), Luxembourg, Lorraine and Alsace (2,2 million), and Upper Corinthia cut off from Yugoslavia, total 92,16 million.

These are all the territories that were officially incorporated into the Reich, and whose inhabitants were subject to conscription in the Wehrmacht. “The imperial protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia” and the “Governor-General of Poland” will not be taken into account here (although ethnic Germans were called in to the Wehrmacht from these territories). And ALL of these territories remained under the control of the Nazis until the beginning of 1945. Now we get the “final settlement” if we take into account that Austria’s losses are known to us and make up 300.000 people, that is, 4,43% of the country's population (which in%, of course, is much less than in Germany). That will not be a big “tightness” to assume that the population of the other regions of the Reich suffered the same losses as a result of the war in percentage terms, which would give us another 673? 000 people. As a result, the total human losses of the Third Reich are 12,15 million. + 0,3 million. + 0.6 million. = 13,05 million people. This “tsiferka” is already more like the truth. Taking into account the fact that these losses included 0,5 - 0.75 million civilians who died (and not 3,5 million), we get losses of the Third Reich Sun equal to 12,3 million irrevocably. If we take into account that even the Germans recognize the loss of their Armed Forces in the East in 75-80% of all losses on all fronts, then the Reich forces lost about 9,2 million (75% of 12,3 million) in the battles with the Red Army irretrievably. Of course, not all of them were killed, but with the data on the released (2,35 million), as well as prisoners of war (0.38 million) who died in captivity, you can rather accurately say that they were actually killed and died from wounds and in captivity, as well as missing without a message, but not captured (read "killed", and this is 0,7 million!), the Sun of the Third Reich lost about 5,6-6 million people during the march to the East. According to these calculations, the irretrievable losses of the Armed Forces of the USSR and the Third Reich (without allies) are related as 1,3: 1, and the military losses of the Red Army (data from the team led by Krivosheev) and the Reich Sun as 1,6: 1.

The procedure for calculating the total casualties of Germany

Population in 1939 70,2 million people.
Population in 1946 65,93 million people.
Natural mortality 2,8 million.
Natural increase (fertility) 3,5 million.
Emigration inflow 7,25 million.
Total loss {(70,2 - 65,93 - 2,8) + 3,5 + 7,25 = 12,22} 12,15 million people.

Every tenth German was killed! Every twelfth was captured !!!


Conclusion
In this article, the author does not claim to seek out the "golden section" and "truth in the last resort." The data provided in it are available in the scientific literature and the network. Just all of them are scattered and scattered across various sources. The author expresses his personal opinion: you can’t believe the German and Soviet sources during the war, because their losses are at least 2 – 3 times, the enemy’s losses are exaggerated by the same 2 – 3 times. All the more strange that German sources, unlike Soviet ones, are recognized as quite “reliable”, although, as the simplest analysis shows, this is not so.

The irrevocable losses of the USSR Armed Forces in the Second World War constitute 11,5 - 12,0 million people irrevocably, with the actual combat demographic losses in 8,7 – 9,3 million people. The losses of the Wehrmacht and the SS troops on the Eastern Front are 8,0 - 8,9 million people irrevocably, of which purely combat demographic 5,2 – 6,1 million (including those who died in captivity) people. Plus, the losses of the German Armed Forces on the Eastern Front need to add the losses of satellite countries, and this is neither more nor less than 850 thousand (including dead in captivity) people killed and more than 600 thousand prisoners. Total 12,0 (the greatest number) million vs. 9,05 (the smallest number) million people

The logical question is: where is the "filling up with corpses," about which Western, and now domestic, "open" and "democratic" sources speak so much? The percentage of dead Soviet prisoners of war, even by the most benign estimates, is no less than 55%, and the German, by the largest, no more than 23%. Perhaps the whole difference in casualties is due simply to the inhuman conditions of prisoners?

The author is aware that these articles are different from the last officially announced version of the loss: the losses of the USSR Armed Forces - 6,8 million soldiers killed and 4,4 million captured and missing, the losses of Germany - 4,046 million soldiers killed, died from wounds, missing (including 442,1 thous. dead in captivity), loss of satellite countries 806 thous. killed and 662 thous. prisoners. The irretrievable loss of the armies of the USSR and Germany (including prisoners of war) - 11,5 million and 8,6 million people. Germany's total loss 11,2 million. (for example in Wikipedia)

The issue with the civilian population is more terrible against 14,4 (the smallest number) million people of the victims of the Great Patriotic War in the USSR - 3,2 million people (the largest number) victims from the German side. So who fought and with whom? It is also necessary to mention that without denying the Holocaust of the Jews, the German society still does not perceive the “Slavic” Holocaust, if everything (thousands of works) is known about the sufferings of the Jewish people in the West, then they prefer to “modestly” keep quiet about crimes against the Slavic peoples. The non-participation of our researchers, for example, in the all-German “dispute of historians” only aggravates this situation.

I would like to finish the article with the phrase of an unknown British officer. When he saw a convoy of Soviet prisoners of war, who were being driven past the “international” camp, he said: “I forgive the Russians in advance for what they will do with Germany.”

The article was written in 2007 year. Since then, the author has not changed his opinion. That is, there was no “stupid” collapse of corpses on the part of the Red Army, however, as well as a special numerical superiority. This is proved by the emergence, in recent times, of a large stratum of the Russian oral history, that is, the memoirs of the rank-and-file WWII participants. For example, Electron Priklonsky, the author of the “Samokhodik’s Diary,” mentions that during the entire war he saw two “fields of death”: when our troops attacked in the Baltic States and when they fell under the flanking fire of machine guns, and when Germans broke through the Korsun-Shevchenko boiler. An example of a single, but nonetheless valuable because the diary of the wartime, and therefore quite objective.

Recently, the author of the article came across (materials of the Duel newspaper edited by Y. Mukhin) on a curious table, the conclusion is controversial (although it corresponds to the views of the author), but an interesting approach to the problem of losses in the Second World War:

Estimation of the loss ratio by the results of a comparative analysis of losses in wars of the last two centuries

The application of the comparative analysis method, the foundation of which was laid by Zhomini, to the assessment of the ratio of losses requires statistical data on wars of different eras. Unfortunately, more or less complete statistics are available only for the wars of the last two centuries. Data on the irretrievable combat losses in the wars of the XIX and XX centuries, summarized by the results of the work of domestic and foreign historians, are given in Table. The last three columns of the table demonstrate the obvious dependence of the outcome of the war on the relative losses (losses, expressed as a percentage of the total army) - the relative losses of the victor in the war are always less than those of the vanquished, and this dependence has a steady, repetitive character (it is fair for all kinds of wars), i.e., has all the features of the law.


This law - let's call it the law of relative losses - can be formulated as follows: in any war, the victory goes to the army with less relative losses.

Note that the absolute numbers of irretrievable losses for the winning side can be either less (World War 1812, Russian-Turkish, Franco-Prussian wars), or more than the defeated side (Crimean, World War I, Soviet-Finnish) , but the relative loss of the winner is always less than that of the loser.

The difference between the relative losses of the winner and the vanquished characterizes the degree of persuasiveness of victory. Wars with close values ​​of the relative losses of the parties end in peace treaties while preserving the defeated side of the existing political system and the army (for example, the Russian-Japanese war). In wars ending, like the Great Patriotic War, by the complete surrender of the enemy (Napoleonic wars, the Franco-Prussian war 1870 – 1871), the relative losses of the winner are substantially less than the relative losses of the defeated (by no less than 30%). In other words, the greater the loss, the greater must be the size of the army in order to win a convincing victory. If the loss of the army in 2 times more than the enemy, then to win the war, its number must be at least 2,6 times the number of the opposing army.

And now we will return to the Great Patriotic War and see what kind of human resources the USSR and fascist Germany had during the war. Available data on the strengths of the opposing sides on the Soviet-German front are given in Table. 6.


From tab. 6 follows that the number of Soviet participants in the war was only 1,4 – 1,5 times the total number of opposing troops and 1,6 – 1,8 times the regular German army. In accordance with the law of relative losses with such an excess of the number of participants in the war, the losses of the Red Army, which destroyed the fascist military machine, in principle could not exceed the losses of the armies of the fascist bloc by more than 10-15%, and the losses of regular German troops - by more than 25-30 % This means that the upper limit of the ratio of irretrievable combat losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht is the ratio 1,3: 1.

The figures for the ratio of irretrievable combat losses are given in Table. 6, do not exceed the upper limit of the loss ratio obtained above. This, however, does not mean that they are final and not subject to change. As new documents, statistical materials, research results of the loss figures of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht (Table 1-5) can be refined, changed in one direction or another, their ratio can also change, but it can not be higher than the 1,3: 1 .



Sources:
1. The Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR "The size, composition and movement of the population of the USSR" M 1965,
2. "The population of Russia in the 20 century" M. 2001
3. Arntts "Human casualties in the Second World War" M. 1957
4. Frumkin G. Population Changes in Europe since 1939 NY 1951
5. Dallin A. German rule in Russia 1941 – 1945 NY — London 1957
6. "Russia and the USSR in the 20 Wars of the Century" M.2001
7. Polyan P. The victims of the two dictatorships M. 1996.
8. Thorwald J. The Illusion. Soviet soldiers in Hitler, s Army NY 1975
9. Collection of messages of the State Extraordinary Commission M. 1946
10. Zemskov. Birth of the second emigration 1944 – 1952 SI 1991 No. 4
11. Timasheff NS The postwar population of the Soviet Union 1948
13 Timasheff NS The postwar population of the Soviet Union 1948
14. Arntz Casualties in World War II M. 1957; International Life 1961 No. 12
15. Biraben JN Population 1976.
16. Maksudov S.. The loss of the population of the USSR Benson (Vt) 1989 .; "On the front losses of the SA during the Second World War" "Free Thought" 1993. No. 10
17. The population of the USSR for 70 years. Edited by Rybakovsky L. L. M 1988
18. Andreev, Darskiy, Kharkov. “Population of the Soviet Union 1922 – 1991” M 1993
19. Sokolov B. “Novaya Gazeta” No. 22, 2005, “Price of Victory -” M. 1991.
20. “The German War against the Soviet Union 1941-1945” edited by Reinhard Ryurup 1991. Berlin
21. Muller-Hillebrand. "Land Army of Germany 1933-1945" M.1998
22. “The German War against the Soviet Union 1941-1945” edited by Reinhard Ryurup 1991. Berlin
23. V. Gurkin. On the human losses on the Soviet-German front 1941 – 45. Nini No. 3 1992
24. M. B. Denisenko. WWII in the demographic dimension "Eksmo" 2005
25. S. Maksudov. The loss of the population of the USSR during the Second World War. "Population and Society" 1995
26. Y. Mukhin. If not for the generals. Yauza 2006
27. V. Kozhinov. The great war of Russia. The lecture series 1000 anniversary of the Russian Wars. Yauza 2005
28. Materials of the newspaper "Duel"
29. E. Beevor “The Fall of Berlin” M.2003

Related Literature:
G. Krivosheev “Russia and the USSR in the wars of the twentieth century. Loss Book



Author:
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  1. alexng
    alexng 18 February 2012 09: 37
    +9
    Somewhere I already fasted about this. I can’t find the link to the census data and the summary. But I will try to retell from memory. According to the census of 1937 of the year 1953 of the year, the number of men who died between 22 of June and 1945 of May and 9 was from 1945 to 16 years (i.e., mobilization age) from the USSR is approximately 49 million and from Germany excluding 8 million of their allies. And this despite the fact that before and after the war, people were dying, some from wounds, and some from diseases. I think that focusing on census data will be closer to the truth.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 18 February 2012 20: 28
      +8
      Quote: alexneg
      I think that focusing on census data will be closer to the truth.


      If we analyze the quality and age composition of the Wehrmacht without numbers, you can see how it has changed for the worse. Recall the Hitler Youth and grandfathers in ersatz overcoats. In the USSR, there was no such problem with human resources despite all the losses of the initial period. We suffered greatly mainly from 1923-1924. Yes, and I remember the soldiers said that after 1943, the German went wrong, the flimsy and puny German went, one SS was still strong- so they told us back in school at the lessons of courage
      1. alexng
        alexng 19 February 2012 00: 56
        +8
        And the tactics of the war of the Red Army after the Battle of Kursk changed radically. Before the attacks there was such a strong artillery preparation, especially during the liberation of Europe, that one square meter fell on 3-4 shells and it was not possible for enemy soldiers to survive. My father-in-law was called up to the front, just during this period and he said that during the attack he did not see a single German alive. And during the Offensive near Prague, he said that they did not give out bullets at all, since they said that there was no point, because there was no one to shoot at. And when he was awarded for this attack, he was dumbfounded and wondered why? Indeed, in the attack, not a single German was killed. So the past in the media is unpredictable and you need to draw data only from the census archives.
      2. nnz226
        nnz226 19 February 2012 03: 19
        +8
        You can quote Marshal Zhukov: "With three hundred and fifty guns per kilometer of the front, the enemy is not reported!"
    2. Tram boom
      Tram boom 20 February 2012 19: 52
      0
      Tukhachevsky's suckers sent to the army buried a rifle and fled at the first shots. Hence such a large number of losses
  2. Greyfox
    Greyfox 18 February 2012 09: 53
    +3
    The article is very detailed and balanced. It is necessary to read very carefully, a lot of statistics from different sources. As for the "death fields", I remember an episode from a book about the siege of Leningrad (mentioned by Beshanov, but the primary source is the recollection of a Leningrad soldier), when snow field was littered with the corpses of the Red Army soldiers, lying in several layers in uniforms of different periods, from summer to winter, depending on the time of year when they attacked the German fortifications. So the episodes with "falling corpses" are still not one hundred percent myth.
    1. taseka
      taseka 18 February 2012 10: 42
      10
      And I remember the words of one grandfather of a front-line soldier from Alapaevsk in 1984, when to my question - "Why does your grandfather have only one medal on your suit and why did you receive it?" He answered me - "For the fact that he remained alive! When I ran to the attack on the Seelow Heights, my foot never got to the ground, I ran over the corpses!" I BELIEVED THIS GRANDFATHER, HE Cried !!!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 18 February 2012 11: 39
        +9
        And I would not believe it, although I heard a lot of stories about the war! The first part - I believe, the continuation - is doubtful ...
        I will answer both at once - there was nothing strange near Leningrad, since the front line had stood in one place for several years, there was about the same situation near Rzhev, there were other places with monstrous losses in a relatively small section of the front ...
        The losses at the Seelow Heights were large, very large, but the late myths about the pathological bloodiness of the "Marshal of Victory" are added not to a small extent ...
        1. fktrctqxbr
          fktrctqxbr 18 February 2012 19: 48
          +7
          My sidekick, Great-grandfather received an award: After 4 days the demon of sleep - these were retreats. He fell asleep on a chaise and, of course, an unconscious dream fell. After 2 hours, their column was bombed by aircraft. When he wandered, he saw a broken column (wounded corpses). Interestingly, there were no combat soldiers. He gathered the horses, locking them into carts as he could help the wounded. In short, he re-formed the column. The next day, they were summoned to the NKVD and congratulated, and awarded the order. He says - they’re such a flock of them, scared (they just didn’t call the NKVD at that time), but I also got awards here. For which he does not know. Got and got went back.
          1943 was commissioned due to a wound in battle, and for this no one gave him a reward. What he was constantly offended by the government.

          Whatever it was, each of them deserves more than rewards. Eternal glory and memory to them.
      2. omsik
        omsik 13 October 2016 23: 13
        +4
        I don’t believe it, because I wouldn’t run down the corpses. If only he would break his legs.
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 18 February 2012 20: 49
      11
      I also had to read about such "death fields".
      And at the same time, my father, who went through the war, said that at one time he saw most of the corpses during the war (and he went through Stalingrad) - near Korsun-Shevchenkovsky, where the Germans left the encirclement. Says - there was a "meat grinder".
      So not only we, but also they "filled up with corpses".
    3. Ascetic
      Ascetic 18 February 2012 20: 52
      14
      Quote: Greyfox
      .So, the episodes with "filling up with corpses" is still not one hundred percent myth.


      It is absolutely not true, but there will be constant exaggeration and understatement of losses in the war for the sake of political turmoil. The first wave went under N.S. Khrushchev who needed strong evidence of the personality cult of I.V., Stalin and an understatement of his role in Victory. And Brezhnev took a course towards "varnishing" the history of the Great Patriotic War, but under Gorbostroyka continuous slander and falsification flourished under the guise of historical truth
      An example under Khrushchev a myth arose about the loss of 200000 people killed on the "Nevsky Pyatachka". which is now again served as truth. I will not refute it, just think. The staff of the SD in wartime is about 14,5 thousand people. those. almost 13 full-blooded divisions were killed without wounded, and this, without wounded, the number of which is usually estimated at about 3k1 to the killed only almost 40 divisions in one patch where no more than a regiment could fit. And here they refer to the memoirs of G.K. Zhukov and press reports in the early 60s. Now we return to the beginning of the post and remember who was in power and who benefited from it. So these things must be approached carefully. Well, I will not repeat myself about minefields and Zhukov.
      1. Arc76
        Arc76 19 February 2012 13: 46
        +2
        I already pmsal here to you somehow about the Nevsky Piglet. In October 1941, on the patch was 4 SD and one division of the NKVD, as it was placed.
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 19 February 2012 21: 55
          +5
          On October 20, 1941, the Sinyavinsk operation began to break through the blockade by the troops of the Neva Operational Group. This time, the surprise factor could not be used. The enemy foresaw the possibility of an offensive by Soviet troops. As soon as the ferry across the Neva began, the entire area where boats and boats were concentrated was shelled by cannons and machine guns. Dozens of boats just launched into the water turned into chips at once. Nevertheless, the crossing continued, and as a result of many days of fighting, units of the 86th Infantry Division managed to expand the bridgehead along the front by one kilometer. But in the end, only 177 active bayonets remained in the division. In other formations, the situation was the same: the 265th Infantry Division (SD) - 180 people, the 168th SD - 175 people. And only in the 115th SD there were 1324 people thanks to the replenishment thrown the day before.
          Big losses were in the 20th division of the NKVD, the 123rd separate tank brigade and other units. Based on these figures, it becomes clear how up to nine divisions and brigades could be located on a tiny piece of land at the same time, violating all the standards provided for by the combat charter. Their compounds could only be called conditionally. In fact, they were knocked out to the state of the mouth.

          http://pavlovsk-spb.ru/ss-smirnov/463-nevskiy-pyatachok.html?start=2

          2km along the front and 600m in depth directly on the patch, well, let incomplete sd 20000 people. 1 person per 1m only a suicide can do it. According to the 1939 charter, a division can defend a strip along a front of 8-12 km and a depth of 4-6 km
          1. Arc76
            Arc76 20 February 2012 01: 46
            0
            Four divisions were squeezed into a patch, equal in size to the area of ​​defense of a rifle battalion, so that there were no regulations. New forces were concentrated on the right bank. For fire support of the troops, the navy organized an artillery group of 16 stationary, 6 railway batteries, 4 canal boats and 5 destroyers. The summary that you give me, about the number of divisions, in Bondarenko's memoirs takes place on November 5 after two weeks of fighting, he also writes that during the landing the losses were relatively small. Bondarenko asked Khozin before the operation why the charter was being violated, the answer was - I quote - "Comfronta looking at me with a long, long look, said the owner's Nevsky patch on the map, you think that the rate understands less than us" And you say the charter 39 year, what charter if the owner said. However, Hitler also got involved in the affairs of his generals, they both were worth each other. Therefore, I am skeptical about such research, mathematical calculations such as the ratio 1 to 3 are not suitable for our army, we never stood behind the price. At the storming of Berlin, 360000 losses - is this normal? Zhukov with a horse competed Bagration, and a sample of strategic art. But, before and after her, even Zhukov, Konev and Rokosovsky did not have the same opinion on this matter, not to mention Manstein and Model at the end of the war. You are not from the wiki, read the memoirs. I was a fan at one time, I reread everything.
    4. Krilion
      Krilion 20 February 2012 04: 26
      +3
      Quote: Greyfox
      The article is very thorough and balanced. It is necessary to read very carefully


      A useful article, including the fact that through the prism of history it becomes clear that in the modern world Germany has created a new Reich this time in the form of the eurozone and the European Union ... what it was not possible to do before by force of arms was done by force of money ... and No wonder Angela Merkel in Greek newspapers is depicted in the uniform of a ss and a bandage with a swastika ...
      1. Arc76
        Arc76 20 February 2012 12: 48
        +2
        The Greeks took a good walk on the long-term money of the nursing school, it’s time and honor to know. Even on Friday it was a day off. They just don’t want to work.
  3. taseka
    taseka 18 February 2012 10: 19
    +5
    Bravo! A. Kravchenko - Respect!
    I read your article with pleasure, I haven’t seen the loss ratio in WWII in such a long time! Thanks for your analytics !!!
  4. MDesant
    MDesant 18 February 2012 10: 56
    +4
    In the Great Patriotic War, pearl all of Europe against our country (however, as now).
    After the first time I came across the data that more than 300 Jews and Gypsies who fought in the German army were captured by our troops, the captured Psheks, Yugas, Spaniards and other Europeans are not so wildly perceived
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 21 June 2017 13: 40
      +1
      11 Jews captured in 000
  5. Miha_Skif
    Miha_Skif 18 February 2012 10: 57
    +3
    A very useful and well-reasoned article. Without knowing your history, it is impossible to navigate correctly in today's difficult world good
  6. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 18 February 2012 11: 33
    +7
    Of course, the article has a lot of letters and a lot of numbers, but everyone should read it! And read carefully ...
    Honestly, I’m tired of seeing the staring eyes of the half-insane Boris Sokolov with his hackneyed record, in which he extrapolates one particular example to the whole war ...
  7. Kaetani
    Kaetani 18 February 2012 11: 51
    +3
    Respect to work! I support for a balanced thorough work!
  8. ward
    ward 18 February 2012 12: 30
    +3
    The article is wonderful ... Similar figures are given in the History of the Great Patriotic War in the 12 volumes of the 70 edition ...
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 18 February 2012 14: 50
      +2
      Let me doubt it - it couldn’t be, this is a solid work, but extremely politicized ...
      There is generally a problem with numbers - you have to run through volumes and summarize different data yourself, and you don’t even know how reliable the result will be ...
  9. Aleksys2
    Aleksys2 18 February 2012 15: 16
    11
    There is an interesting document about Zhukov's "bloodthirstiness" and "corpse abuse":
    DIRECTIVE OF THE MILITARY COUNCIL OF THE WESTERN FRONT

    30 March 1942 city
    Top secret

    № 3750
    To all commanders, commissars of divisions and brigades
    The Headquarters of the Supreme High Command and the Military Council of the Front receive numerous letters from the Red Army soldiers, commanders and political workers, testifying to the criminally negligent attitude of command of all degrees towards saving the lives of the Red Army infantry.
    In letters and stories, hundreds of examples are cited when the commanders of units and formations destroy hundreds and thousands of people in attacks on the enemy’s undefeated defenses and machine guns that have not been destroyed, on unsuppressed strongholds, and in a poorly prepared offensive.
    These complaints are certainly fair and reflect only part of the existing frivolous attitude towards saving replenishment <...>.
    I demand:
    1. Every abnormal loss of people in 24 hours, thoroughly investigate and immediately make a decision, according to the results of the investigation, reporting to the higher headquarters. Commanders who have criminally thrown parts at an unsuppressed enemy fire system should be brought to the strictest responsibility and assigned to a lower position.
    2. Before an infantry attack, the enemy’s fire system must be suppressed and neutralized, for which each commander organizing the attack must have a carefully developed plan for destroying the enemy with fire and attack. Such a plan must necessarily be approved by the senior commander, which at the same time should serve as control for the senior commander.
    3. A personal explanation of the nature of the loss should be attached to the loss reports, who is responsible for the abnormal losses, what measures have been taken by the perpetrators and to prevent them [losses] in the future.

    Western Front Commander
    Army General ZhUKOV
    Member of the Military Council of the Western Front
    HO_HLOV
    VRIO Chief of Staff of the Western Front
    Major General GOLUSHKEVICH


    Comments are, so to speak, superfluous
    1. Arc76
      Arc76 20 February 2012 02: 41
      -2
      There is no superfluous here is another curious document signed by the marshal: code 4976, which says "Explain to all personnel that all families who surrendered to the enemy will be shot and upon their return from captivity they will also be shot" - the document is not secret, you can study it, even on "the name of Russia" .. In the modern criminal procedural code of Russia, this is qualified as hostage-taking (Article 206 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation). So, draw your own conclusions about bloodlust.
      1. Eugene
        Eugene 20 February 2012 02: 51
        +2
        CC EMNIP does not work in martial law.

        And those Westerners who call Zhukov bloody, it is recommended to recall the WWII, the battle on the Somme, for example, where about 35 thousand allied soldiers died as a result of breaking the front to a depth of 10 km, as a result of breaking the front to a depth of 600 km. And the total losses on both sides of more than a million people!
        And there are many such examples.
        1. Arc76
          Arc76 20 February 2012 03: 19
          0
          Well, firstly, I am not a Westerner, not an Easterner, I myself alone, but such a fact. And as for the Somme, this is the first world war, where Verdun was both Gallipoli and Masuria, all had huge losses. The Second World War is not the first for you. The troops used everything in different ways. Well, yes this is a long conversation. And they themselves would like to fight in such an army, where you will be captured, and your children will be shot. The great and wise did not even sign a prisoner of war convention, did not seem to consider it necessary. But Zhukov has published quite a few pearls, but to take hostages from the families of his soldiers is brilliant. By the way, about 450000 people got into the boiler under Kiev. Maybe you can give some other example from the set, but for the 2nd world please
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 20 February 2012 14: 28
            +2
            Do you have information that somewhere and once shot children captured? My grandfather went missing and counted as such for more than a year, until it was confirmed that he had died - no one thought to reproach our family with anything ...
            1. Arc76
              Arc76 20 February 2012 15: 24
              -1
              But the cipher was
              1. Aleksys2
                Aleksys2 20 February 2012 16: 08
                +3
                But there wasn’t her
                1. Arc76
                  Arc76 20 February 2012 20: 37
                  0
                  Then why should I scratch my tongue and directives?
                  1. Aleksys2
                    Aleksys2 20 February 2012 21: 25
                    +2
                    The directive is in the archives, but there is no encryption.
          2. Aleksys2
            Aleksys2 20 February 2012 14: 39
            +3
            The non-signer of the "Great and Wise" convention, however, respected this convention. And the Germans who signed this convention observed it selectively. It did not apply to Soviet military units, and not because we did not sign it, but for completely different reasons (see the order of the OKW of the Wehrmacht High Command on the treatment of Soviet prisoners of war - September 8, 1941).
            And what does Kiev have to do with it? There commanded Tymoshenko and Budyonny, and the beginning. The General Staff was already Shaposhnikov, and Zhukov was not understood.
            And by the way, the German military praised the fighting qualities of the Red Army. So, after a month of fighting, Halder writes down the final and extremely unpleasant for the German command conclusion made by Field Marshal Brauchitsch:
            “The uniqueness of the country and the uniqueness of the character of the Russians gives the campaign special specificity. The first serious adversary. "
            The command of Army Group South came to a similar conclusion:
            “The forces that oppose us are for the most part a decisive mass, which, in the tenacity of warfare, is something completely new compared to our former opponents. We are forced to admit that the Red Army is a very serious adversary ... The Russian infantry showed unheard-of persistence primarily in the defense of stationary fortified structures. Even in the event of the collapse of all neighboring structures, some of the pillboxes called upon to surrender held on to the last man.
            Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, before the invasion believed that "Bolshevism would collapse like a house of cards", already on July 2, writes in his diary:
            “On the Eastern Front: the fighting continues. Strengthened and desperate resistance of the enemy ... The enemy has a lot of killed, few wounded and prisoners ... In general, very heavy battles take place. There can be no talk of a "walk". The red regime mobilized the people. Added to this is the fabulous stubbornness of the Russians. Our soldiers can barely cope. But so far, everything is going according to plan. The situation is not critical, but serious and requires all efforts. "
            General Gunther Blumentrit:
            Now it was important for the political leaders of Germany to understand that the days of the blitzkrieg were gone. We were opposed by the army, which in its combat qualities was much superior to all other armies that we had ever encountered on the battlefield. But it should be said that the German army also demonstrated high moral stamina in overcoming all the calamities and dangers that fell upon it.
            1. Arc76
              Arc76 20 February 2012 15: 32
              -2
              But Ribentropp asserted, at the beginning of the war, that treatment was bad precisely because the great and wise did not sign the convention. And in general, what to say is not talking about the attitude to the enemy, but about the attitude to their own soldiers, why not sign it. And here are some more interesting facts about prisoners of war - the best ace of World War II Hartman, the Soviet Themis, finding no other reason, rolled up into camps under the article of damage to social property ..
              1. Aleksys2
                Aleksys2 20 February 2012 16: 22
                +4
                And that each prisoner of war was judged? Or is there any other story with Hartman? Enlighten, do not let the fool die.

                How would you explain.
                The country signatory to the Convention undertakes to treat prisoners in accordance with the rules of this convention. That is: the USSR had the right to treat the prisoners especially cruelly, but did not do this, But Germany HAS BEEN OBLIGED to treat all prisoners equally and in accordance with this convention, but did not do this in relation to the Soviet prisoners. This convention (unless you read it of course) does not distinguish between prisoners from countries that have signed the convention and which have not done so.
                1. Arc76
                  Arc76 20 February 2012 20: 43
                  -2
                  It was Hartman who was tried, because they were supposed to be released from the prisoner of war camp, he seems to have spent 10 years but was sentenced to 25. But it’s not about him, the very fact of a ridiculous best ace in economic terms. I will read the Convention. Well, the right to send through the Red Cross Allies received them. You forgot about it. The Germans motivated their attitude towards the prisoners precisely by the fact that our country did not sign the convention.
                  1. Aleksys2
                    Aleksys2 20 February 2012 21: 30
                    +2
                    And neither of which, in comparison with other famous fighter pilots, at the initial stage of the service, Hartman did not shine with particular success. After 100 sorties, he had only 1943 victories until mid-April 7. Until May 18, 1943 he made 158 sorties and had only 17 air victories.
                    The "Star" began to rise during the battle in the skies over Kursk and Orel on July 5, 1943. On this day, Hartman achieved 4 aerial victories at once, he won 7 victories on July 7, and again 4 victories were won by him on July 8. Since July 5, 1943, Hartman served as commander of 7./JG52.

                    The Soviet Government did not have representatives at the Geneva Convention in 1929, which was convened to work out agreements on prisoners of war. This agreement is not signed on behalf of the Soviet Government. A few years later, the Swiss Government made an unofficial statement that the Soviet Government had made an offer to participate in the Convention, but it refused the offer, motivating this decision with the fact that the provisions providing for the privileges of captured officers over captured ordinary soldiers were contrary to the Soviet refusal class differences. Since the Hague laws and customs of the land war of 1907 also provide for the privileges of captive officers in articles 6 and 17, in Germany it was suggested that the Soviet Government considered these points also incompatible with its principles.

                    From the correspondence:
                    1. Our:
                    "... The People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs of the USSR, testifying its respect to the Embassy of Bulgaria, has the honor to inform that in the present war with Germany imposed on the Soviet Union, the Soviet Government will comply with well-known international agreements concerning the law of war, and in particular:

                    1) The Hague Convention of October 18, 1907 on the laws and customs of the land war.

                    2) The Geneva Convention of July 17, 1925 on the prohibition of the use in the war of asphyxiating, poisonous and other similar gases and bacteriological agents.

                    3) The Geneva Convention of July 27, 1927 on improving the fate of the wounded and sick in the army.

                    The Soviet Government considers it necessary, however, to declare that, in view of the systematic violation by Hitlerite Germany of international treaties and conventions, the Soviet Government will observe the above treaties and conventions with respect to Germany insofar as they will be observed by Germany itself ... "

                    2. The Germans:

                    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs sends the following message to the Swedish Embassy on August 21, 1941:

                    "... The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has the honor to acknowledge receipt of the note verbale from the Royal Swedish Embassy dated July 19, 1941, concerning the issue of treatment of prisoners of war, which states that the USSR Government will comply with the Hague Convention of October 18, 1907 regarding prisoners of war, provided that Germany will also comply with them.
                    The German Government expresses its extreme surprise that despite the behavior of the Soviet troops in relation to captured German soldiers, the Soviet Government considers itself entitled to declare compliance with international law with respect to prisoners of war and in this regard raise the issue of reciprocity. It goes without saying that the German Government has always been a prisoner of war captured in German captivity in accordance with the norms of existing international law. On the other hand, it was confirmed by both the condition of the soldiers discovered by the advancing German troops and the testimonies of German soldiers who were temporarily captured by Russian troops and were subsequently released, some of them were wounded, that the Soviet troops tortured and killed German prisoners themselves indescribable and brutal ways. The facts revealed by the German authorities indicate a situation in which it is impossible to call the Red Army the armed forces of a civilized country. In the light of this state of affairs, the Soviet Government must first prove that it is ready and able to radically change the behavior of its troops and other institutions in relation to German prisoners of war, before they can talk about any agreements with them about prisoners of war.
                    The Reich government will make further decisions depending on how the Soviet Government will treat German prisoners of war who were captured by the Soviet Union.
                    Berlin, September 18, 1941 ... "
                    1. Arc76
                      Arc76 20 February 2012 22: 59
                      -2
                      So Hartman and from the flight school graduated in October.
      2. Aleksys2
        Aleksys2 20 February 2012 14: 23
        +3
        "cipher 4976" is a rather controversial document. Nobody saw the original, everything is from the words.
        1. Arc76
          Arc76 20 February 2012 15: 25
          -2
          The original is stored in Podolsk, it is not classified read.
          1. Aleksys2
            Aleksys2 20 February 2012 16: 10
            +2
            There is a copy, and doubtful. Where is Podolsk and where is Peter.
            1. Arc76
              Arc76 20 February 2012 20: 36
              -2
              Well, actually it is considered a document recognized in official history
              1. Aleksys2
                Aleksys2 20 February 2012 20: 38
                +2
                Our current history does not recognize this.
                1. Arc76
                  Arc76 20 February 2012 20: 53
                  -2
                  Well, here is the present history, the present history, let's judge the Second World War by memories and reflections, and the small earth. And in Podolsk in the main archive there is this cipher program received by the headquarters of the Leningrad Front, you use technical means more actively, basically everything is publicly available, and as for Zhukov, Astafyev for example called him the poacher of the Russian people. Stalin's sympathy for Zhukov was only because he tried to achieve goals by any means. By the way, at first you spoke about words, now it turns out to be a copy, tell me right away that I don’t know, I’ll study and say something, otherwise you’ve got some fantasies about copies or words decide.
                  1. Aleksys2
                    Aleksys2 20 February 2012 21: 14
                    +3
                    PODOLSK DOESN’T HAVE THIS CODE, because in Podolsk there is a letter from the head of the Main Political Directorate of the Workers 'and Peasants' Navy of the Army Commissar of the 2nd rank Ivan Rogov to the Secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, Georgy Malenkov, dated October 5, 1941, where this cryptogram is quoted. This cipher program is also absent in the TsAMO funds. The author who introduced the document is Boris Sokolov.
                    1. Arc76
                      Arc76 20 February 2012 22: 53
                      -2
                      Okuda infa, give a link.
                      1. Aleksys2
                        Aleksys2 21 February 2012 00: 10
                        +2
                        Eh, it means: "I heard a ringing, but you don't know where it is from."
                        That is, as I understand it, they read somewhere about the notorious encryption and did not even bother to search for the source, but nevertheless immediately perceived it as the truth. The extreme degree of bias speaks to you. There is no point in convincing you of anything, for it is useless. For you, everything that was broadcast by Russian and Soviet history is a lie, and you accept everything newly published on faith, without even bothering to check it.
                        For your development, I’ll inform you that all documents relating to military affairs are stored in the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense (TsAMO), and there is also the Russian State Archive of Socio-Political History (RGASPI). So TsAMO is located in Podolsk, and RGASPI in Moscow. Then I made a mistake, I admit, and I apologize, I confused, I thought that TsAMO was in Moscow, and RGASPI was in Podolsk. So, returning to our ciphering, the only mention of this document is in the letter to the Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) Georgy Malenkov, dated October 5, 1941: the head of the Main Political Directorate of the Workers 'and Peasants' Navy of the Army Commissar of the II rank Ivan Rogov:
                        “The Head of the Political Administration of the Baltic Fleet published
                        28.9.41, the directive No. 110 / s, which indicates:
                        “To explain to all the personnel of the ships and units that all families of Red Navy, Red Army soldiers and commanders who have crossed over to the enemy’s side, who have surrendered to the enemy, will immediately be shot, like the families of traitors and traitors to the Motherland, as well as all the defectors who surrendered will be shot to the enemy, upon their return from captivity. ”
                        I immediately requested PUBalt, on the basis of which instructions a directive was issued that contradicts the instructions of the order of the Supreme Command of the Red Army No. 270.
                        A member of the Military Council of the KBF, Comrade SMIRNOV, and head of the PU KBF, Comrade Lebedev, in their telegram dated 4.10.41, report that Directive No. 110 / s is based on a cipher program for Commander of the Leningrad Front, Comrade Zhukov, No. 4976, which states:
                        "To explain to all personnel that all families who surrendered to the enemy will be shot and that upon returning from captivity they will also be shot."
                        The People’s Commissar of the Navy, Comrade KUZNETSOV, and I don’t know that Section 2 of Order of Headquarters No. 270 has been changed.
                        I believe that the cipher program No. 4976 of the command of the Leningrad Front contradicts the instructions of order No. 270 of the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command of the Red Army. ” (RGASPI, f. 83, op. 1; d. 18, f. 18-19).
                        G. M. Malenkov read the letter on October 8, shortly after the disaster near Vyazma, where forces of three fronts were surrounded. No written reaction of George Maximilianovich has yet been found. And this is the letter in RGASPI, in the Malenkov Foundation. But in TsAMO (in Podolsk) there is no such cipher program, and there are not any references to it or references to it.
                  2. Aleksys2
                    Aleksys2 20 February 2012 21: 37
                    +1
                    And what do you have a support for "Malaya Zemlya"? Do you mean the book by Leonid Brezhnev, or the actions of the landing Kunikov themselves?
                    1. Arc76
                      Arc76 20 February 2012 22: 51
                      -2
                      The book, but I read a lot about Hartman. You want to say that the number of his victories is so high that he is not ace No. 1, then who do you think.
                      1. Aleksys2
                        Aleksys2 21 February 2012 00: 23
                        +2
                        He came to military aviation in October 1940, on March 1, 1941 he was sent to a flight school in Berlin-Gatow, and from November 1, 1941 began training as a fighter pilot.
                        On August 20, 1942 he was sent to Ergnzung-Jagdgruppe Ost and only on October 10, 1942 he was transferred with the rank of lieutenant on 7./JG52 to the eastern front.
                        He achieved his first victory on November 5, 1942. It was an IL-2 shot down by him. But the first victory was not easy for Hartman: excited by such a victory, he did not notice that a LaGG-3 fighter had crept up behind him, and then Hartman himself was shot down. He jumped with a parachute.
                        After 100 sorties, he had only 1943 victories until mid-April 7. Until May 18, 1943 he made 158 sorties and had only 17 air victories.
                        And suddenly, overnight, a miracle happened!
                        Since July 5, 1943, Hartman served as commander of 7./JG52. In July 1943, Hartman chalked up 24 wins (18-41), in August - 49 air victories, with 7 wins on August 7 (62-68), 5 wins on the 1st, 4th and 5th on August 4st, and three times in 3 victories - on the 9rd, 17th and 1943th of August XNUMX
                        On August 20, 1943, he achieved the 89th and 90th air victories, but he was shot down over Soviet territory (he flew on a Bf-109G-6 W.Nr. 20485 aircraft) and was held captive for 4 hours. After a desperate escape, after 2 days he reached the front line through his front line.
                        September 2, 1943 he was appointed commander of 9./JG52. After a three-week pause after captivity, he continued his triumphal procession and on September 20, 1943, chalked up 98-101 victories.
                        October 1943 was also very successful - 33 victories. Finally, after 148 aircraft were shot down on October 29, 1943, Lieutenant Hartman was awarded the Knight's Cross, and already on December 13 celebrated the 150th air victory.
                        The difficult position of the front did not allow to relax. On January 30, 1944, Hartman shot down 6 planes at once (178-183 victories), on February 1 - another 5 (186-190), and on March 2 - 10 Soviet planes at once (193-202 victories), after which he was awarded Oak Leaves to the Knight's Cross (Nr. 420)
                        In the spring of 1944, the German army fought heavy battles in the Crimea. And when on May 8, Hartman left the Crimea with his unit, he took out two mechanics in the fuselage of his Bf-109. By this time, Hartman had 223 air victories, of which he scored 6 each on May 5 and 7, 1944.
                        Despite the defeat of the Wehrmacht ground forces, the Luftwaffe fighter aircraft made desperate attempts to maintain their positions in the air. In fierce air battles, Hartman increased his score. So, from May 21 to June 24, 1944, he managed to shoot down 43 enemy aircraft. Including 244-250 wins were credited to Hartman's account on June 4. In Romania, Hartman for the first time "got acquainted" with the American fighters covering 15 of the American air fleet P-51, shooting down 23 Mustangs on June 24 and 5.
                        On July 1, 1944, Hartman was promoted to lieutenant, and on July 2, after 266 air victories, he was awarded the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords (Nr. 75).
                        In August 1944, Hartman's account was replenished with 29 aircraft, including 283-290 victories on August 23, and 291-301 victories on August 24. So, on August 24, 1944, Lieutenant Erich Hartman became the first fighter pilot in history to cross the milestone of 300 victories.
                        Such differences in performance smell bad. While an ordinary pilot, he won 17 for 158 flights, as soon as he became a commander, immediately 5-6 planes per day, or even as many as 10. Just take and calculate how much time and ammunition are needed to bring down 10 planes, and estimate how much time he spent in the air that day.
                      2. Arc76
                        Arc76 21 February 2012 01: 10
                        -1
                        Hartmann himself explained his performance with good tactics, an ambush attack, a vertical battle, I don’t think he has so many victories, but he is also one of the record holders for their sorties in about 1500, Kozhedub has 320 and 60 victories. The performance in the prince coincides. And tomorrow I’ll write about Zhukov, by the way, how about Rzhev.
                      3. Aleksys2
                        Aleksys2 21 February 2012 01: 54
                        0
                        Hartman shot down his 352 aircraft in 825 air battles, while Ivan Kozhedub destroyed his 62 in 120 battles. That is, the Soviet ace during the entire war met with an air adversary more than 6 times less than Hartman. Naturally, it was almost impossible for him to shoot down as many planes in 120 battles as Hartman shot down in 825 battles. If Ivan Kozhedub spent as many air battles as Hartman did, then he would have counted 429 enemy aircraft shot down. And if Erich Hartman met the enemy not 825, but only 120 times, then the number of his victories would be 51.

                        What about Rzhev?
                      4. Eugene
                        Eugene 21 February 2012 09: 58
                        0
                        Hartman is a super-ace, everything is clear with him, if briefly:
                        a) undoubted talent
                        b) a huge number of sorties
                        c) its fighter was somewhat different from the others in manufacturing quality, while the pilots of enemy aircraft could not always squeeze out everything that was possible from their vehicles, often because of the banal sloppiness of both the pilots themselves and the service staff.

                        There are many myths about attribution, etc. ... in reality, both ours and the Germans ascribed, in approximately equal proportions. And they often attributed without malicious intent, but out of wisdom.

                        The fact that the German aces shot down more is quite normal and logical, and there is nothing surprising here.
                      5. Kassandra
                        Kassandra April 24 2014 18: 05
                        +1
                        he only dealt with interceptions from the blind zone, never turned the carousel at all. picked up "wounded".
                        Kozhedub and Pokryshkin, on the contrary, flew more to escort the bombers and cover army units.
                    2. Arc76
                      Arc76 29 February 2012 12: 54
                      -1
                      The unsuccessful and useless operation of the Marshal, who bleed the Red Army on the eve of the Wehrmacht summer company.
                2. Brother Sarych
                  Brother Sarych 21 February 2012 10: 15
                  +2
                  Yes, as they say, a map suddenly struck here! And what doubts can be, because gentlemen believe each other's word?
                  Of course, Hartman was an outstanding pilot, but everyone loves to cheat ...
                  Reading about the many victories of many aces, it is useful to note that quite a few were "honored parachutists", like Rudel jumped about 15 times, so the factor of direct luck is clearly present - the vast majority never jumped from a downed plane ...
                3. Eugene
                  Eugene 21 February 2012 12: 26
                  +1
                  Level of training ...
                  At the end of the war, the Luftwaffe relied on super aces from which the planes were assembled with great care. We spent money on the Me-262, again under pressure from the aces. There was more combat experience - imagine the raid of "fortresses" on Dresden, Hamburg, these are several hundred aircraft in a limited area. We did not have such air battles. Yes, our aces and ordinary pilots did not have so many hours of flights.

                  To summarize, if briefly, our Air Force at the end of the war was pretty well supplied with personnel and fresh cars, while the Germans didn’t have one or the other, so I had to do 5 sorties a day, or even more. Naturally, therefore, the German assists more.

                  By the way, the Japanese have the same situation, their ace I do not remember their name, left all Americans far behind.
                4. Kassandra
                  Kassandra April 24 2014 18: 06
                  0
                  hartman toli 11 toli 14
  • Arc76
    Arc76 20 February 2012 20: 47
    -1
    In general, where such infa.
  • rexby63
    rexby63 18 February 2012 15: 31
    +4
    Regarding the "historian" Sokolov and the "accountant" Solzhenitsyn, they could not be considered. And further:
    "West is West, East is East, and they will not leave their places,
    Until Heaven and Earth appear at the Last Judgment of the Lord. "
    1. fktrctqxbr
      fktrctqxbr 18 February 2012 19: 50
      +1
      ............................Amen!
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 18 February 2012 21: 00
      +5
      The "early" Solzhenitsyn was not weak at all. On the theme of his "Archipelago" even a little book came out with the memoirs of those who were sitting then and in those places about which it is written in the "Archipelago". The book is called that (sorry - I quote): "BITCH YOU ARE SHAME".
      1. Bear52
        Bear52 19 February 2012 21: 24
        +1
        Thank you, this book is on "filibust", I downloaded it!
  • Strabo
    Strabo 18 February 2012 15: 54
    +3
    There is an objective article, a good analysis. The article is a big plus.
  • Норд
    Норд 18 February 2012 17: 15
    +3
    The article is killer. He puts the situation with the losses in the Second World War from head to foot. For a long time I wanted to have more or less objective data without politics and snot. Very convincing calculations and conclusions. We are waiting for the new work of the Author (with a capital letter).
    1. Kars
      18 February 2012 18: 21
      +1
      He has his own site indicated at the end of the article.
      1. Норд
        Норд 18 February 2012 18: 41
        0
        Karsu
        I have already bookmarked the page.
  • Born in USSR
    Born in USSR 18 February 2012 18: 38
    +2
    Thanks to the author for serious and hard work! the more such studies there are, the fewer followers will remain in the denigrants of our heroic history!
  • Region71
    Region71 18 February 2012 18: 49
    +4
    We are trying to count the losses of the war, which ended almost 67 years ago, but we can’t accurately calculate the losses in the last two Chechen wars. Now, to the accuracy of one million, the losses in the Second World War will be lost, it is obvious that the USSR lost a lot of people and still we won .
  • LiRoy
    LiRoy 18 February 2012 19: 04
    +2
    For a long time, our country will be tormented by speculations on the losses and events of the Great Patriotic War, since the horrors of that war have already been ingrained at the genetic level in the memory of our people. For example, I am still jarred from German speech, although specifically the Germans have not done anything to me at the moment.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 18 February 2012 20: 56
      +1
      One cannot but admit that the events of the Second World War are farther and farther away from us in time and more and more are becoming legendary ... there are almost no living combat veterans ... It is probably time to look for reconciliation in assessments of that war ... And the Germans are different and the USSR has long been no ... Although of course no one is forgotten and nothing is forgotten - this slogan often sounded in the former Union ... It is a pity the reality is completely different ...
      What really surprises how much the theme of the Great Patriotic War is shrouded in ideology and speculation ... Some facts of the war are promoted in the media, and it is little known about others - take for example the fighting near Kharkov in 1942 - how many people were killed here and somehow it is not said, or The Rzhev operation, and the grand assault of Koenigsberg is still little known - can someone on this site write articles about these events?
      1. LiRoy
        LiRoy 18 February 2012 23: 01
        +4
        Quite the opposite, in recent times, they often begin to recall the actions near Kharkov in 1942 and about the Rzhev operation, in order to once again denigrate the USSR as a country in which people were led to slaughter. But such brilliant operations of our troops as Operation Baghartion, the liberation of Europe and the defeat of the strongest Kwantung Army in Manchuria by Vasilevsky are trying to oblivion; there are alarmingly few documentaries about these events being shot.
        1. Selevc
          Selevc 18 February 2012 23: 26
          +2
          Why, for some reason, even Discovery made a documentary about the rout of the Kwantung army (and by the way it gives a very positive assessment of the entire operation and especially the leadership and organization of the offensive - at that time the Red Army was already very experienced) and about the operation Bagration and the Union, even the film was shot ... I write about what you need to know better all the moments of the Second World War and victories and lose - Stalingrad was also a meat grinder but for some reason the whole world knows about it ... But few people know about the assault on Koenigsberg - and that too glorious page of our history.
          And where does it slander or whitewash someone - was there really no place for heroism in the unsuccessful operations of the Red Army? But you need to know as much as possible really about the course of the war and not fragmentary ...
          For example, we still know something about the defeat of the Kwantung army, but what do we know about the attack on Sakhalin? What do we know about the landing on the Kuril Islands and the seizure of the ports of North Korea? Do we know at least one hero who fought there? No, and again no, and it is not clear why?
          1. nnz226
            nnz226 19 February 2012 03: 18
            +2
            The foreman of the 2-th article Vilkov in the landing on the Kuril Islands repeated the feat of A. Matrosov - Hero of the Soviet Union posthumously. By the way, the main losses of our troops during the defeat of Japan, just in the Kuril Islands (Of the almost 18000 killed - about 6500-7000, i.e. a very high percentage in non-mass battles). In Manchuria, the Japanese were simply wound on caterpillars. And there 3 front acted ...
            1. Selevc
              Selevc 19 February 2012 15: 03
              +1
              Exactly - if there are so many losses - then there were fierce battles there? And why is this spoken and written so little? There is a feeling that there are promoted themes of the 2nd World War and some half-forgotten by both official history and the media ...
          2. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 19 February 2012 10: 15
            +1
            Apparently you just in your youth years know little about it!
            In principle, a lot has been written about this, for example, on the 30th anniversary of the Victory, if memory serves you, apparently you did not find it ...
            1. Selevc
              Selevc 19 February 2012 14: 03
              -1
              Tell me at least one documentary or feature film - topics I wrote? I watch a lot of programs about the war, but for some reason I haven’t seen such ones - new info about the Soviet-Japanese war is generally very rare on TV ... I'm not talking about the Soviet-Finnish war - the media was completely silent about this topic, especially during the Soviet period. .. Of course there is literature - but why not make a documentary about this? There are things on TV that I don’t understand ...
              1. Brother Sarych
                Brother Sarych 19 February 2012 15: 44
                +1
                There are few films, I agree - you won’t remember it at once, there was one film, I don’t remember the name, in it our fighters explode a tanker with a Japanese battery - the tanker was sitting on stones, and a coastal battery was organized there. interfering with the landing ...
                And more feature films have not yet been recalled ...
                More written material. and reading, of course, is more difficult than watching a movie ...
                1. FREGATENKAPITAN
                  FREGATENKAPITAN 20 February 2012 15: 32
                  +1
                  ... Yes, there are a lot of films ... purely at a glance - "Through the Gobi and Khingan", "Order not to open fire" and "Order to cross the border" ... you can also add ...
                  There are good books - "Dawns over Ussuri" ... and others .. = there would be a desire .....
                  1. Brother Sarych
                    Brother Sarych 20 February 2012 16: 13
                    0
                    No, he asked about the landing on the Kuril Islands and in Korea - and this is a slightly different song ...
          3. besfamilnij
            besfamilnij 19 February 2012 16: 16
            +3
            Because the internal enemies of Russia (they are liberals of all stripes) feel very comfortable on enemy territory, and they make good money on enmity .. I watched the film "bastards" a few years ago, just fucking. I thought that about the war, the victory should be better removed by external enemies than by their own liberals! There was no respect for Menshov, and he became despised
    2. schta
      schta 20 February 2012 13: 22
      0
      From the Germans in Germany now there is practically nothing left. There every second Turk, every fifth Russian.
      This is so, by the way.
  • ikrut
    ikrut 18 February 2012 21: 02
    +2
    The article is VERY helpful. Simply referring to it can be an argument in discussions with "liberal truth scholars." The information is not new though. But this site is far from superfluous.
  • vladim.gorbunow
    vladim.gorbunow 18 February 2012 22: 52
    +3
    http://www.poteryww2.narod.ru/index.html Ссылка на работу Гарибяна Игоря Людвиговича. Его оценка более радикальна.Демографические потери Вермахта 15 миллионов его сателлитов - 4 млн. солдат.Значительное превышение боепотерь Люфтваффе над потерями в боях ВВС РККА. И то же по др. видам боевой и транспортной техники. Надо понимать,что мы воевали с патологическими лжецами, обманывавших начальников. Известны коэффициенты к так называемым потерям в Военном дневнике генерал-полковника Ф.Гальдера. Хорошо это видно на примере Зиновия Колобанова. Он и его рота КВ 20 августа 41 г под Гатчиной уничтожили 43 нем. танков. Всё было сфотографировано и занесено на планы местности проверяльщиками и корреспондентами. Но Википедия указывает,что немецких данных об этих потерях нет. Судить о них можно смене командования 6 ТД, отводу войск в тыл и т.д.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 19 February 2012 10: 18
      +1
      There were plenty of liars and bouncers everywhere, but to say that the Luftwaffe lost more planes than the Red Army Air Force is too much for anyone ...
      1. vladim.gorbunow
        vladim.gorbunow 19 February 2012 14: 21
        +3
        Alas, there are numbers. The total German production of non-training aircraft is 103. According to their data, the Allies claim the destruction of 500 40 aircraft. 856 units remain on the Eastern Front. Given the higher manufacturability of herms. equipment and quality of service, it should be recognized that the lion's share of casualties is combat. Airplanes of the Red Army were made largely from canvas and wood. Which corresponded to the stage of technological development, we jumped to the next step already during the war. Wooden planes could not serve a calendar year. Hence the total losses of Soviet aviation - 63. , of which combat - 000, the rest - decommissioning.
  • 755962
    755962 18 February 2012 23: 38
    +4
    In Vologda there are several buildings built by German prisoners of war and the road leading to Kirillov is paved with cobblestones (still in working order). The father told how they ran around as boys to look at the Germans. He said they fed them potatoes. They asked, "Father, father where?" My grandfather has been in the military since 1945. Now I take my son to the memorial, I point to the sign - "Here is your great-grandfather." My wife's grandfather was a sapper in 42g.
  • nnz226
    nnz226 19 February 2012 03: 13
    +7
    April-May 1945 was remembered for the capture of Berlin and the battles at the Zeelovsky heights, but it was forgotten that by striking through Zeelovo, Marshal Zhukov cut off a couple of armies from Berlin, locking them in the Halbe boiler. approximately 300000 soldier (almost Stalingrad)
    1) these 300000 did not hit the streets of Berlin to protect him! Were they there, no matter how long the assault would drag on directly ?!
    2) According to the tradition at that time - the Nazis rushed to the west to surrender to "socially close" "democracies" - the soldiers of a totalitarian state (Germany) were not eager to surrender to the army of another supposedly "totalitarian" state (USSR). But they were not released from the cauldron and almost 250000 were laid in the ground, there are eyewitness memories about the field covered in several layers with the corpses of the Germans. And this was not done in many months (an episode near Leningrad) but in 1 week !!! so the Germans also covered the ground with corpses. And who took into account in the destroyed Germany these quarter of a million killed soldiers ??? so the estimates of losses are very, very inaccurate, we have a tragic 1941, the Germans have a pogrom in 1945. Example: The Vistula-Oder operation under the leadership of Zhukov was carried out with the losses of 1 Belarusian front, about 18000 killed (in total! with the scale of the operation) and how many Germans crumbled, if only taken prisoner 350000 ???
    1. uladzimir.surko
      uladzimir.surko 19 February 2012 05: 08
      +5
      There and the road to them and the grandfathers and daughters of glory !!!!!!!
  • Prometey
    Prometey 19 February 2012 10: 44
    +5
    The main ally of Nazi Germany was completely non-German-speaking Hungary. The Hungarians were the most efficient allies of Nazi Germany and showed themselves "in all their glory" on the Eastern Front. During the liberation of Hungary, the Red Army overcame incredibly stubborn resistance from the Magyars and the Wehrmacht, and the losses in the storming of Budapest were identical to those in the Berlin operation.
    And if we talk about the losses of the USSR during the Second World War. Why is the myth of the Holocaust and the extermination of millions of Jews so imposed in the West? Because they do not want to recognize the titanic contribution of the Soviet people to the defeat of Nazi Germany and the price that was paid primarily by the Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians (the core of the USSR) for the victory. That’s why it is so persistent, right up to the criminal prosecution, that the West obscures the millions of Soviet citizens destroyed by fascists with legends about supposedly hundreds of thousands of Jews who were killed in gas chambers.
    As one of the revisionists of the "Holocaust" Jurgen Graf wrote, if anyone deserves the right to speak about the Holocaust, it is Soviet citizens who, indeed, have experienced all the horrors of German chauvinism. And notice this is written by a German.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 19 February 2012 14: 00
      +1
      So that's why, why are there so few books and programs about storming Budapest? I understand that there are favorite topics - the defense of Moscow, the blockade of Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk, etc. - but why are the other moments of the Second World War so poorly covered - especially on TV ...
    2. Selevc
      Selevc 19 February 2012 15: 28
      +5
      Yes, watching modern programs about the war - especially the Discavery channel - the following false conclusions arise:
      1. That the Germans as a whole were a peace-loving people, in all the crimes of the 2nd
      world psychologist Hitler is to blame exclusively :)))
      2. That the main contribution to the victory was made by the Anglo-Saxons on their miracle tanks (Sherman, Matilda and Challengers).
      3. That the Nazis destroyed mostly Jews alone in the occupied territories.
      4. That by their actions in Africa (on the front, which is of 3rd importance), the Anglo-Saxons made a turning point during the 2nd World War ...
      5. That the Red Army is basically a poorly managed herd led by its commanders for slaughter.
      6. What the Red Army did in Germany almost the same as Germany in the union ...
      7. That peace-loving Americans exclusively for peaceful purposes dropped atomic bombs on terrible Japanese people (note dropped on civilians and not on a military facility).
      8. It was also absolutely necessary to burn Dresden in the last weeks of the war ...
      9. Oh, and also that Marinescu was almost a war criminal who launched at the end of the war 10-15 thousand Germans peacefully draping :)))
      ALL THIS IS A MODERN BLAUD LIE - HAVING NO JUSTIFICATION !!! In general, the Western PRs were properly promoted - the 2nd World War - the central event of the 20th century ....
  • Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 19 February 2012 10: 47
    +1
    There should be a separate discussion about the Holocaust, but here we will all earn an eternal ban automatically ...
  • Arc76
    Arc76 19 February 2012 13: 52
    0
    Just started to read immediately the inaccuracy. How can we write about double and triple registration in the 2 shock army if during the end of the months of the Luban operation it was not conducted at all.
  • besfamilnij
    besfamilnij 19 February 2012 15: 58
    +5
    The article is excellent, although for the Russian unique liberalist, at least in the eyes of God all of Russia.
    I live in Germany, as if I had a conversation with my grandfather on a bench, well there and then they touched on the themes of the Second World War, and now he says you know why we lied?
    Our tank is right here or something breaks down there, so you had to wait for it from Germany, then they will repair it and all that, and the Russians will collect one from three wrecked in a night and it’s already in service and is already fighting ..
    Yes, and the "soyuznichki" would only let them down with the unarmed population at war ..
    He was also taken prisoner at Stalingrad in some kind of NP called Mayevka in the Kirov region, it seems, he also said how the locals fed bread for a thorn of potatoes, which was very surprised by the behavior of the "barbarians" as they thought before the war
    I separately mentioned "Katyusha", according to their language "Stalin's organ" of the type more terrible in my life I have not seen anything else, a single roar flying overhead was enough to sow panic.
    1. schta
      schta 20 February 2012 13: 28
      +2
      For instance. For a couple of weeks of battles on the Kursk Bulge, the Germans very quickly restored their tanks. And it so happened that our tigers knocked out more than they actually were. This is not a "postscript" or "bulwark fours".
    2. FREGATENKAPITAN
      FREGATENKAPITAN 20 February 2012 15: 40
      +1
      Well ... now it’s clear why the USSR won the war, it turns out everything was simple for the Germans and the MTO ........
  • 13017
    13017 19 February 2012 17: 15
    -2
    We won, and this is the main thing, and the majority of the lacking commandos fought according to the principle of soldiers.
  • Prospector
    Prospector 19 February 2012 19: 38
    +5
    The article is very good and detailed ... if we compare how we fought and our western "allies" fought .... it’s surprising at all where this "filling with corpses" came from. Recently I read an article called the American Army the biggest myth of the 20th century there are numbers of losses in Normandy of the Germans and allies. The Germans lost 150, the Allies 000. Here is the ratio .... with a fucking overwhelming superiority of the Allies in EVERYTHING !!!! the Europeans would be silent in a rag with "filling up corpses" laughing
  • schta
    schta 20 February 2012 13: 36
    +2
    The sources of loss cannot be trusted. None. Neither ours, nor German, nor American. In part, the convention of human losses is associated with the chaos of war.

    Also, the commanders of any army who objectively lost personnel in too large quantities deserve punishment, up to the execution. Who will drive himself under the tribunal? That's life.
  • jar.zoom
    jar.zoom 20 February 2012 15: 21
    +1
    Excellent article. We should also deal with ours, who died fighting on the side of Germany. Oh, there were a lot of them. The data on the losses of satellite of Germany were also underestimated and the losses of our allies-Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Poland, etc. were not taken into account. I think that and the losses of the civilian population must be dealt with. They cannot be so high. Americans, by the way, estimate them at 8-9 million. I can’t find their methods, can anyone tell me?
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 20 February 2012 21: 37
      +2
      Bulgarians in general are our fucking allies - they were espoused by Russians, having shed a lot of blood ... Then they fought against Russia in the 1st and 2nd world wars - this is a token of gratitude ... Eastern European states - prostitutes have always changed their orientation based on the current situation ... And now they are again in Allied NATO !!! :)))
      The Yugoslavs are also cool allies - especially Croats in full force who sided with Hitler during the German invasion .... The only pity for the Serbs is the long-suffering people - which historically the Slavs-neighbors always set up ...
      The Russian and Ukrainian army should have two allies - the army and navy :)))
  • Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 20 February 2012 16: 18
    +1
    Good ally is Bulgaria! Then it’s better to mention Romania - then they lost almost as much while fighting the Germans as they did with us ...
    Mihai became a knight of the Order of Victory, and the Bulgarian king flew a dove from his palace ...
  • Maryna Nyvedava
    Maryna Nyvedava 13 May 2012 16: 32
    +1
    Ohhh, great.) I think I can bring parts of this material to the conference for discussion. For a long time I was looking for something like this, so that it would be already collected and normally systematized.
  • tsp54
    tsp54 25 May 2012 10: 17
    0
    "The question of the civilian population is more terrible against 14,4 (the smallest number) of victims of the Second World War in the USSR - 3,2 million people (the largest number) of victims from the German side."

    If we take into account the time of occupation - Soviet territory of 36 months and German territory of 8 months, then these losses will be completely equal: civilians killed about 5 million people a year and one or the other of the belligerents.
    1. Kars
      27 May 2012 17: 11
      +1
      Quote: tsp54
      German territory 8 months


      And on which graph do you have civilian casualties from bombing by the Allied aircraft? And by the way there is no chance statistics how many German civilians died in Soviet concentration camps?
  • Syric30
    Syric30 23 November 2012 14: 19
    +1
    I completely agree that the USSR has lost more. Why? 1) In the initial period, the enemy outnumbered the western border. Ok 5.5mil vs. 2,8 2) Our troops, having an advantage in tanks and aircraft but having a smaller supply of fuel ammunition (on the average on the front), are disarmed by orders, the battles fought separately and suffered heavy losses in boilers. It's chasing what is shown in the movie. The Germans had a large number of tanks in strike groups - fists. With which they made deep embraces. In their place were infantry units and artillery. The legend of Schmeiser. In fact, the machine guns MP38-40 was ok 1mil pcs. The main weapon of the Germans was a rifle. Every sixth German was armed with a machine gun or a pistol. In the films, they also practically did not show 1) German anti-tank rifles and grenades and they had a lot of them.

    You can write and talk about all this for a long time. Do not forget only some facts. 1) Millions of Romanians, Hungarians, Italians, Austrians, and representatives of other countries fought on the German side. 2) On the side of the Germans, about 1.2 mil citizens of the republics of the USSR fought and served. 3) On the territories occupied before and after the arrival of the Red Army, there were elements of a civil war (UPA, etc.) In general, if we take the attribution of the losses of the Red Army and civilians to the Germans themselves, this is not reasonable to say the least.

    You can write and talk about all this for a long time. Do not forget only some facts. 1) Millions of Romanians, Hungarians, Italians, Austrians, and representatives of other countries fought on the German side. 2) On the side of the Germans, about 1.2 mil citizens of the republics of the USSR fought and served. 3) On the territories occupied before and after the arrival of the Red Army, there were elements of a civil war (UPA, etc.) In general, if we take the attribution of the losses of the Red Army and civilians to the Germans themselves, this is not reasonable to say the least.
  • Kol4ak
    Kol4ak 2 May 2013 18: 47
    0
    http://ani-al.livejournal.com/805464.html
    STATISTICS OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE
    STATISTICS OF THE USSR
    STATISTICS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    Good quality resource, a lot of interesting
    and useful statistics, documents, materials before and after the war period.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • rodevaan
    rodevaan 14 November 2013 08: 28
    +1
    Heaped up with corpses?
    That in the Soviet, that in the present Shitokraticheskoe times it is too fashionable to endlessly repeat like a parrot this stupid expression, invented in the West, to slander the feat of our soldiers, the expression “They threw corpses”. Many rassiyansky, deceived by a zombie boxer about which all sorts of Svanidzy or Sokolovs constantly carry anti-Russian nonsense, also repeat this idiotic tale that a Russian soldier did not know how to fight and entered Berlin over corpses, and they carry this nonsense, not even thinking what they are talking about.

    And they are always very modestly silent about how the Germans bombarded corpses in several layers of the fields and steppes of our endless country.
    And such examples can be given more than enough, although in the same Korsun-Shevchenko operation:
    "... On the night of February 17, 1944, the command of the encircled group decided to make a last attempt to break out of the encirclement. Leaving the guns, vehicles, military equipment, the German column moved to a breakthrough, but here our troops were waiting for them, which with tanks and cavalry crushed the ranks of German soldiers Mountains of corpses of German soldiers and officers remained after the night battle. Among the dead was the commander of the group, Lieutenant General Stemmermann. Roads were impossible to pass, so they were packed with enemy equipment and troupes of fascists. And not only roads, but also fields, ravines and copses were littered with thousands of dead. On February 18, after a night battle, we followed tanks, and tanks over the corpses of German soldiers "...

    - Memoirs of Nikolai Loyko, a veteran of the 6th Guards Tank Army.

    And there were a lot of such examples.

    But due to the modern pro-Western "outrages", our people are able and want only to echo the western story about the Russian mountains of corpses and the valiant Wehrmacht soldiers with puppy delight and a pig's squeal ...
    , without clan, without tribe ....
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 28 January 2015 09: 57
    0
    Dear administrators! We ask you to republish this article. Now this topic has resumed its relevance. On the eve of the 70th anniversary of the Great Victory of the USSR over Nazi Germany and the influence of the intensified propaganda of the West in belittling the role of the Soviet people in this victory, I would like to once again recall and analyze how everything really was. After all, every now and then already among our citizens allegations are heard that we "threw corpses" on the invincible Hitler and the best army in the world, the German one, and won this war only thanks to huge losses.
  • slavik75
    slavik75 April 13 2015 13: 12
    0
    Yes, there were a lot of corpses, but on both sides. There was a high density of fire, the movement of huge masses of people. Even in peacetime, on exercises, on a much smaller scale, and then there are losses. What can we say about such a war. Although not ours the benefit was that the country had not yet recovered after the devastating civil war, as a result of which the majority of large military specialists were killed or were forced to leave their homeland. In addition, the Cossacks were destroyed, or even forced to go over to the enemy’s side, evolyutsionnoy Russia.
  • Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 17 August 2017 11: 18
    0
    Given that the Wehrmacht and its allies were advancing from the frontier of the USSR’s borders on 22.06.41. to the line Leningrad-Kalinin-Serpukhov-Tula-Voronezh-Stalingra
    d-Elista-Sev. Caucasus-Crimea, and in the conditions of the GREAT victory of the frontier battle of 1941, and the Red Army from this line advanced to the Danube, Vltava and Elba, that is, about 500 km more, bearing thus, as the advancing side, MANY LOSSES, especially before the Vistula and Oder, the military effectiveness of the USSR and its Armed Forces must be recognized as appropriate to the losses suffered and to the ENEMIES resulting in the military defeat achieved in the BATTLE OF VICTORY. As you know, losses in the offensive, three times higher than losses in defense, are considered SETTLEMENT by military science. So our fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers, mothers, grandmothers and great-grandmothers fought gloriously and skillfully (in the end). With all the bitterness of bereavement.
  • Head Physician
    Head Physician 4 November 2017 17: 17
    15
    The author does not distinguish a source from literature
    Such is the quality
  • vkbond
    vkbond 8 July 2018 12: 43
    0
    In my youth I listened attentively to the stories of front-line soldiers not at meetings, but over a glass of vodka. So what they told was not at all like the talking room of Goblin and Starikov and other "historians." And they said that they lived before the first attack, who was wounded, he survived. Out of 5 of my uncles, only one returned with wounds. Well, my father also returned with wounds. Well, everything is reliable here, otherwise I would not have been. Father told how they crossed the Southern Bug and 5 bodies lay on the shore and it was not 42 years old, but spring 44 years !!! And his father told about the prisoners at the front, who allegedly did not take to fight. Before the big attack, a ZK train, 500 people, was brought to a section of their regiment, and without dressing in uniform and without weapons they were thrown into the attack. Scientific reconnaissance. Man 10 returned from the attack. So they, too, were shot on the parapet for cowardice. Who they were political or criminals he did not see from the trench. He also told how commanders stole vodka from soldiers. He said - they went forever drunk to umat. A friend told me as soon as conscripted zapadentsev boys were thrown into the attack in Poland without weapons. And I know dozens of such stories on various military topics. I believe my relatives and friends more. Well, excuse me, gentlemen, the Stalinists. But I also do not believe Suvorov-Rezun. Sounds really fantastic. But I lived under Stalin and I know well that we were born to make a fairy tale come true. But one thing is true. We won the war by 75% and now the same allies have made us guilty of this. At what not only ours, but also Hitler's allies. And the correct calculations on the link:
    ] http://dedusenko.at.ua/blog/poteri_v_velikoj_ote
    chestvennoj_poschitaem_inym_sposobom / 2017-03-25-6
    1