Modernization news of the Orlan cruisers

Currently, the domestic shipbuilding industry is carrying out major repairs and modernization of the Admiral Nakhimov heavy nuclear missile cruiser, Project 1144 Orlan. At the moment, of the four built ships of this type in combat fleet there is only one left. After completion of the current work, the number of cruisers in the ranks will be doubled. In addition, as a result of modernization, the basic combat characteristics of the restored cruiser should increase, which will positively affect the combat effectiveness of the fleet as a whole.

Recently, officials have announced several News progress and plans for their completion. For a number of reasons, almost all the latest news on the modernization of Admiral Nakhimov affected only the timing of the required work. The technical details of modernization and other interesting aspects of the ongoing project have not been touched upon recently. Nevertheless, to date, some information on this subject has already been announced, and in addition, numerous assessments have been expressed.

The cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov", 1994 g. Photo Dodmedia.osd.mil

January 13 domestic media published new reports on the completion date of work already begun. Igor Dygalo, a representative of the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, told the press that the current modernization of the Admiral Nakhimov should be completed in 2020. In accordance with the existing plans, the Sevmash enterprise (Severodvinsk) performs the replacement and renovation of various components and assemblies. A modernization of the life support systems of the ship, radio equipment, and ship power systems is being carried out.

Also during the repair and modernization, a heavy cruiser will lose part of artillery and missile systems, instead of which new types of systems will be installed. According to the results of such upgrades, the ship will have different tactical and technical characteristics, so that it will be able to enhance the potential of the surface forces of the navy.

22 February, the press service of the Sevmash enterprise announced the imminent start of several new phases of repair work. This year, the factory carrying out repairs and modernization of the ship, will begin to receive large-sized equipment necessary for installation on the cruiser. What kind of units will be obtained in the first place - has not yet been clarified.

Also this year, the installation of various systems and pipelines will begin. Preparations for the installation of electrical systems are also ongoing. It was noted that in the course of the repair a new work organization was used. With the help of three-dimensional modeling all the necessary equipment of the ship is combined in one virtual space, which greatly simplifies and speeds up the work. It is reported that some elements of the hull equipment have already been installed in their places using new approaches.

Over the next few weeks, new progress reports and deadlines were not received. New updated information was announced on March 23. President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov said that the "Admiral Nakhimov" will be reintroduced into the fleet for the next three or four years. Thus, the ship will return to service in 2020-21. According to the head of USC, the industry is working on this task, taking into account certain changes in the scope of work.

At the end of March, several foreign publications joined the discussion on the modernization of Russian nuclear cruisers, but their publications are of interest not only in connection with the information provided. According to some data and estimates, in the course of modernization, the 1144 Orlan ships will have to receive promising hypersonic Zircon missiles. The use of this missile complex as part of the weapons of “Admiral Nakhimov” and its “sisterships” has not yet received official confirmation, but has already caused a specific reaction abroad.

Cruiser "Kalinin" (the future "Admiral Nakhimov"), 1991 city. US Navy Photo

Both serious specialized mass media and publications with a dubious reputation began to discuss a few known information about Zircon, as well as to predict the prospects for using such weapons in the complex of weapons of the modernized Russian ships. Immediately a number of British and American journalists came to frightening conclusions. In their opinion, the existing foreign ships have no means of protection against the Zircon or other similar weapons, and therefore are unlikely to survive the attack of the updated Russian cruisers.

Recall, the modernization of the cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" is carried out in accordance with the project 11442M. The decision to conduct such work was made several years ago. The repair contract was signed in the middle of 2013. The following year, the ship was put in the bulk pool for the necessary work. The main contractor in the framework of the repair was the Sevmash plant. In addition, due to the complexity of the work and the need to use various equipment, a large number of subcontractors were involved in the project.

During maintenance, a heavy nuclear missile cruiser must receive various new equipment. In addition, a complex of artillery and rocket weapons will be subjected to the most serious renovation. According to reports, shipbuilders have already changed part of the ship's energy systems. Also, the ship needs to restore the main power plant and other basic elements.

It became known earlier that under the 11442M project a contract was signed for the supply of the main elements of the renewed weapons complex. The cruiser will lose the existing inclined launchers of the Granit P-700 missile complex, which was the main strike vehicle of the ship. 10 universal launchers 3C-14-11442М will be mounted instead. Each such installation incorporates eight cells for the installation of transport-launch containers with a rocket of one type or another.

According to reports, the proposed launchers will allow the cruiser to take on board and use cruise missiles for various purposes of the Caliber family, Onyx anti-ship and even promising Zircon products. The total ammunition of the 3C-14-11442М installations should consist of 80 missiles. The number of products of one type or another will be determined in accordance with the assigned combat mission, which will be facilitated by the universality of installations.

With the help of universal launchers, the ship will be able to use all available missiles for various purposes. So, in the “Caliber” family there are anti-ship missiles, weapons for attacking coastal targets, anti-submarine ammunition, etc. Thanks to the proposed modernization of the shock armament complex, it will significantly increase its combat radius. Depending on the problem being solved, it will be possible to hit targets at ranges of at least 1000-1500 km.

Cruiser in the filling basin of the enterprise "Sevmash", 2015. Photo Bastion-karpenko.ru

According to reports, a major upgrade of air defense equipment is planned, which will be carried out using the latest air defense systems. Currently, the "Admiral Nakhimov" carries a long-range air defense system C-300F "Fort". During the upgrade, this system may be replaced by a newer C-300FM. It is also possible to supplement this complex with a newer “Polymer Redut” According to various estimates, the ammunition of these systems can be brought to the 100 missiles. The defense of the near zone can be improved with the help of the Palash or Pantsir complexes in the maritime version.

To protect against torpedoes or submarines in the near zone, it is proposed to use the compact mine-torpedo anti-submarine complex “Package-NK”. Such systems are already being used in domestic warships of new projects, but for the Orlans they are a novelty.

Currently, the cruiser carries a twin AK-130 artillery mount with two barrels of 130 caliber mm. It was previously mentioned that this weapon will remain in place. At the same time for some time discussed the possibility of using a new artillery system, including with increased caliber guns.

The ship will still be able to transport and serve the Ka-27 multipurpose helicopter. To ensure work aviation technicians will use new special equipment. In particular, the cruiser will have to receive the take-off and landing complex “Deck-1-11442M”. Despite such re-equipment, aviation equipment will retain all its capabilities, however, it will be able to solve the tasks with increased efficiency.

Planned a major update of the avionics complex. New radar stations for viewing and searching for targets, improved navigation systems, more advanced communications, etc. should be used. Provides for the use of complex electronic warfare. There is information about the use of new lowered and towed sonar stations. The ship will also be able to receive signals from hydroacoustic buoys.

As follows from the available data, the main dimensions and displacement of the ship after modernization will not change. The ship will continue to be 251 m, the maximum width is 28,5 m, and the draft is more than 9 m. Full displacement should exceed 26 thousand tons. Admiral Nakhimov will retain the existing nuclear power plant based on the OK-650B water-to-water reactor -3 supplemented with boiler and turbine systems. The power of the main power plant - 140 thous. Hp All this will keep the running performance at the level of the original project. The maximum speed will reach 32 nodes, the cruising range will be unlimited with autonomy up to 60 days.

"Peter the Great". Photo of Wikimedia Commons

Currently under repair is a heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov." Ship renewal should be completed at the end of this decade or at the very beginning of the twenties. According to the previously announced plans of the military department, after the return of “Admiral Nakhimov” to service for repair and modernization, “Peter the Great” will be sent - the only 1144 cruiser currently remaining in service. Repair of the flagship of the Northern Fleet was previously planned to be performed in 2019-22. In connection with some postponement of the completion of work on Admiral Nakhimov, these plans should be adjusted.

For obvious reasons, it’s too early to talk about the exact timing of the completion of the modernization of Peter the Great. The technical details of this project also remain unknown. Probably, this cruiser is being upgraded according to a new project 11442М with a corresponding update of the onboard equipment.

Also, the third ship of the series, the Admiral Lazarev, which served as part of the Pacific Fleet, can later be upgraded. Over the past few years, the further fate of this cruiser has been the subject of numerous discussions and disputes. Information appeared about the planned restoration of the ship with subsequent return to service. In the future, however, news was published about the future write-off and disposal. At the moment, the exact plans of the command of the Navy are unknown. Apparently, they will be formed later, including taking into account the success of the current modernization of "Admiral Nakhimov." In addition, the determination of the future fate of the third Orlan requires taking into account the capabilities of the shipbuilding industry and repair facilities.

The future of the 1144 head cruiser has already been determined. In 2015, the ship "Kirov" (formerly "Admiral Ushakov") decided to send for recycling. Its repair is impossible due to serious damage to the most important units. Until the end of last year, the command was planning to develop a recycling project, according to which the ship would be laid up in the near future.

At the moment, only one heavy nuclear missile cruiser of the 1144 "Orlan" - "Peter the Great" project remains in the combat strength of the Russian Navy. Another similar ship has already gone to repair and upgrade, thanks to which in 2020-21 will be able to return to the system and replenish the grouping of surface ships of the Northern Fleet. The future of the third ship has not yet been determined, and another one will soon be sent for recycling. Thus, in the foreseeable future - by the middle of the next decade - the Navy will receive two heavy cruisers with modern equipment and weapons. In the future, you can upgrade another ship.

Already started repairs will allow the fleet to maintain at least two ships in the fleet. Due to the extension of service life and increased combat performance will be able to create a reserve for successful and efficient operation in the next few decades. This means that after many years of inactivity, one or two ships will be able to return to service and fully contribute to the growth of the fleet’s combat capability as a whole, saving it from the problems of the past.


On the materials of the sites:
http://tass.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://tvzvezda.ru/
http://arms-expo.ru/
http://flot.com/
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/

Comments

[Mystery12345]

After completion of the current work, the number of cruisers in the ranks will be doubled.

it sounds funny if Peter gets docked, it still works — ONE! .... another five years at least. .... the ship promises to be very formidable, but ... ONE. For Russia, it’s sad. and knowing the peculiarities of domestic shipbuilding, there will undoubtedly be shifts "to the right" and when the updated "Peter" comes out into the ocean, there will already be 28 or even the 30th year in the yard ..... alas ... the number of "burks" by that time, will approach a hundred, and China will not stagnate. sad but true.

[Rostovchanin]

And in a pair they could do "miracles" ...

[Krabik]

You do not believe the power of the Russian fleet ?!

Our "Orlan" takes all the "Berks" with one left, if only "He didn’t need Dimon" to intervene in the process, otherwise he will have another castle with a 6-meter fence from the mob%))

[Bourbon]

Quote: Krabik

Our "Orlan" takes all the "Berks" with one left,

Yes Th trifles ?? generally the whole fleet of NATO with the Yuzovsky fleet is one left .... and if it’s also right, then the whole world fleet will be drowned .... the star is straight ..ukh and a crab .... just fantastic in the 10th generation ....

[vavankot]

Of course, it pleases you that you are an optimist and a patriot, but the number and quality of warships, as well as the capacity of the shipbuilding industry, are much higher for our probable enemy .... And even if we heroically sink their ships in the equivalent of 5/1, which in itself is fantastic, our ships will run out faster ...

[Abel]

Powerful cruiser, no words. But, in the light of different opinions, I have a question: how much are such ships needed. And whether it is necessary to compare them with “Burki”. Maybe you need ships of the ocean zone, but not so large and expensive? Carriers are cool, but the Americans themselves say that they are good against small countries, and in the event of a clash, they will be taken away as expensive and vulnerable targets. A massive missile attack - and no, the best anti-missile defense will not help

[Miron]

if "Peter" is in the dock, it will still get-ONE! ....
***
He is now at the dock, and in the field there is not "ONE! ....", but zero.

If the head is over the shoulders for furniture, then in large letters, you can certainly try to disguise it.

[ImPerts]

Impressive colossus!
God grant that the intended thing will happen!

[mark1]

The air defense ammunition (according to the source) seems to remain in the same amount of -96 SAM, and even in the notorious drum sets, although only one refusal from the drums will double the amount, and given the close overall dimensions 48n6 and "caliber" was about part of the PU used for dual purposes (in other things, like on the ground, what is worse than the MK41 for amer missile defense?)

[Dart2027]

Quote: mark1

and even in the notorious drum sets

It seems there was an article stating that the deadlines were postponed to the right due to the replacement of Fort with Redoubt. so whether or not it is not yet clear.

Quote: mark1

and given the close mass-dimensional characteristics of 48n6 and the "caliber", it was possible to use part of the PU for its intended purpose (in other things, like on the ground, what is worse than the MK41 for amer missile defense?)

But this is a mystery - why does the USPK not equip with anti-aircraft missiles?

[mark1]

Quote: Dart2027

But this is a mystery - why does the USPK not equip with anti-aircraft missiles?

In this case, I would have better adapted containers from SAMs for the Caliber missile system as a result of which any anti-aircraft missile regiment becomes Euro-strategic (so to speak, our answer is the Euro missile defense) and for the sea, too, a remake at least ...

[alexmach]

On small ships there is nothing to direct them
+ UKKS cells are few and there is something to load in them.
+ space to spare and it’s better to use it most rationally.
And Callibras, and especially Onyxes, are larger than 48n6 in size.

[Dart2027]

Quote: alexmach

On small ships there is nothing to direct them

There, yes, but the same Orlans can be completely punched with USPK alone, and charge them as necessary.

Quote: alexmach

And Callibras, and especially Onyxes, are larger than 48n6 in size.

True, but air defense is also developing, so having a supply is not bad.

[alexmach]

Perhaps for large ships a really reasonable idea. The only thing is that air defense is developing, including along the path of increasing the number of targets fired (The same long-suffering Polyment-redoubt). Accordingly, we get a larger number of smaller missiles.

[Dart2027]

Quote: alexmach

Accordingly, we get a larger number of smaller missiles.

I would not say that missiles for the S-400 are smaller than missiles for the S-300, because the radius of destruction is growing, so there is a double-edged sword. In addition, one missile launcher for long-range missiles includes 4 shorter-range missiles.

[alexmach]

I would not say that missiles for S-400 are less than missiles for S-300

firstly, there are different missiles, I compare 48N6E Fort (S-300) and 9M96E from Reduta-Vityaz-S-400

In addition, one missile launcher for long-range missiles includes 4 shorter-range missiles.

but how is this possible?
48N6E:
Rocket length, m 7,50
Case Diameter, mm 519
9М96Е
Rocket length, m 4,75
Case diameter, mm 240 [6]

Well, it doesn’t come out 4 9M96E in place of 1 48N6E, except that there is only a cell / launch container with a very good margin in size.

[Dart2027]

Quote: alexmach

firstly, there are different missiles

I mean long-range missiles.

Quote: Dart2027

because the radius of destruction is growing

There will be other missiles and they are unlikely to be smaller.

Quote: alexmach

Case diameter, mm 240 [6]

The Onyx diameter is 6,7 m, that is, they will fit into one universal launcher of the Caliber complex, but 48N6E is not a short range and the corresponding dimensions, so here it is - 1 launcher for one missile. By the way, in Redoubt the same principle - either one long-range missile, or 4 short-range ones.

[pv1005]

Quote: Dart2027

Onyx diameter 6,7 m,

Dear you are not confusing anything?

[Dart2027]

Quote: pv1005

confuse nothing

Yes, a typo - 0,67 meters, but in any case, pushing 4 rockets with a diameter of 0,24 is quite realistic.

[mark1]

Quote: alexmach

And Callibras, and especially Onyxes, are larger than 48n6 in size.

There was no talk of onyxes, but the “Caliber” has a length 10 cm longer than the length of the S-300F container and a diameter that is comparable to SAM; to make such containers but a little longer is not a problem, and it will easily fit into the ship’s under-deck spaces on regular places without speaking about land TPUs. And if you redo the starter (thicker and shorter) then it will fit into the original dimensions of the container.

[alexmach]

3M-54E:
Length, m 8,22
Diameter, mm 533

48H6:
Length - 7,5 m
Diameter - 519 mm

it’s kind of long and the Callibre’s diameter is bigger, I specifically took for comparison the largest missile in the family

There was no talk about onyxes, but Caliber

What's the point? if we talk about a universal launcher - so about a fully universal. There Zircon is still talking on the way, and vryatli it will be smaller in size than Onyxes.

Although of course, if you throw out the notorious drum kit ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: alexmach

universal launcher - so about a fully universal

USPK is designed for Onyx dimensions. The caliber is slightly smaller, the zircon is still unknown, but should fit in size.

[mark1]

For alexmach. Dimensions TPK S-300F - 8,0x1,0m, dimensions 3M14 8,09x0,51 (we are talking only about SKR 3M14 Caliber, which in turn is the development of SKR Granat.
The point is not to replace the UKKS, but that in this particular case, with the ongoing modernization of the Orlan, while maintaining the S-300F air defense system, part of the launch sites for deploying TPK with SKR 3M14 should be used if there is a need for a sharp increase in the strike potential of the cruiser. this will be most effective if you refuse the drums and install each TPK under its own cover (or 4 under one), then, if possible, place 200 TPKs, you can use no less than 100 to place SKR while maintaining the air defense efficiency. In the case of the possibility of using TPK with TFR in the regiments of air defense missiles, we get the same effect as the Americans with their “Aegis” in Euro missile defense, that is, Americans are running into the same thing. what they prepared for us - the possibility of using the INF from the launchers designed as if for another ...

[inkass_98]

There is not much information about modernization, so the volume of the article was compensated by chewing the same information in a different sequence.
And the fate of "Lazarev" seems sad. While the “Nakhimov” will be released into the wild, while the “Peter” will be installed and modernized ... “Lazarev” will just turn up by that time.

[mark1]

For some time now the process has become important and not the result (and even more so some kind of time frame)

[Boa kaa]

Quote: mark1

For some time now the process has become important and not the result

Very true!
And this is because the bureaucrats report on the "progress of DEVELOPMENT of the allocated funds", and not on the progress of the delivery of products!
Monetarism in its brightest manifestation. And until this team leaves, nothing will change: budget money will be taken, and products will be zero! But.

[Monarchist]

It is so, and therefore it remains only to hope that in the USC there is no Taburetkin and pasia Vasilyeva

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Monarchist

It is so, and therefore it remains only to hope that in the USC there is no Taburetkin and pasia Vasilyeva

Hehehehe ... but if Taburetkin oversaw modernization by the Navy, it would probably have been cheaper and faster. Because, for some reason, the furniture maker did not like long and expensive R&D and prohibitive arms prices (the fate of the “Black Eagle” and the T-90 are an example) in the military-industrial complex, the times of the furniture maker are remembered with an unkind word - such prices and such conditions of MO treaties have never been knocked out.

[Abel]

Or maybe it was just not bad, because the defense industry asks for millions to design a furniture nail and billions to prepare for its production

[Curious]

In the USSR, the military-industrial complex for secrecy was called the "granary of the motherland." As those who found the USSR remember, they were bottomless.

[TARSUS]

And from myself I’ll add "You look at the Americans with their F-35"

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: inkass_98

And the fate of "Lazarev" seems sad. While the “Nakhimov” will be released into the wild, while the “Peter” will be installed and modernized ... “Lazarev” will just turn up by that time.

Lazarev can be upgraded in parallel with Peter at another shipyard, on the same Star, for nafig drive it through the oceans, technology will be worked out at Nakhimov.

[inkass_98]

As far as I understand the situation, the problem is precisely that there are no suitable capacities for the modernization of two Orlans at once. Stupidly there are no free docks and specialists needed, oddly enough, including on Zvezda. And those that are are loaded with orders more important.

[Don]

Everything is more banal - the money ran out, or rather it was not there, except for the promises to allocate it. The economy is breathing incense due to the collapse in oil prices. When they took the 2011-2020 GPV, the price of oil was above 100 $, and now it is half as much. Add to this the sanctions, the costs of the war in Syria and Ukraine, the need for import substitution due to the severance of ties with Ukraine, etc.

[litus]

Oil $ 100? but nothing that the rate was also 2 times lower?

[Vlad.by]

Yes, and grain, weapons, titanium, etc. less exported. So the economy is not breathing so much, if we talk about export earnings. But at the same time the domestic product has grown significantly.
Not so bad as you draw Donskoy Chapaev

[Curious]

And another mandatory phrase about the use of three-dimensional modeling. Obviously, according to the author, this is something new and terribly progressive.

[Abel]

On the dashboard "Lada" replaced the light bulb on the LED, the car turned out using nanotechnology

[Dart2027]

Quote: Curious

and terribly progressive

Actually, yes. A lot of equipment needs to be placed in the compartment, and 3D can greatly simplify the design, eliminating a significant part of the overlays that would be very difficult to fix in the hardware.

[Spartanez300]

All the same, the third “Orlan” ship should be modernized and the fleet would be very useful, two on the TF and one on the SF.

[Zaurbek]

They are cherished in reserve, and they will probably check new weapons on Petra, then they will make adjustments.

[Abel]

Or vice versa

[Krabik]

The Orlan project is completely outdated, and the third boat has also rotted ...

[tchoni]

80 missiles for such a trough will not be enough. Five times smaller arly burke boasts similar weapons. True, there you have to choose between air defense, anti-ship function or the ability to work on the ground. But nonetheless...

[Cruorvult]

Burke has 64 + 34 air defense, we have 80 launchers + 96 (100) air defense.

[donavi49]

Most similar to Sijon the Great:
2 MK-41 in the stern - 80 functional shafts for SAM Standard, Ax, ASROK, Harpoon.
48 cells of Korean UVP - 32 of them under the Korean Ax Hyunmoo-3, 16 under Red Shark (ASROK new).
16 inclined launchers - for Korean anti-ship missiles / missiles at 180 km.

A total of 144 heavy rockets comes out (there is still a Rome-116 installation there, I’m not counting it) against 176.

But Sijon is not a relic of a forgotten era, made according to the lost technologies of the ancient gods. And quite a serial and affordable Laiba - 3 already exists, 3 is being built for an enhanced project (although where else to strengthen it?).

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: CruorVult

Burke has 64 + 34 air defense, we have 80 launchers + 96 (100) air defense.

Not quite right :)))
Burke has 64 + 32 = 96 UVP. The updated Nakhimov has 80 UKSK + 96 Fort, but here you need to remember about the presence of 2 Osa air defense systems (40 SAMs in total) that are clearly dismantled, but what will be replaced? At Peter it was 128 SAM "Dagger"

Quote: tchoni

Five times smaller arly burke boasts similar weapons.

The berke's displacement is 9 tons, and Nakhimov's is 648. Five times, you say?

Quote: tchoni

True, there you have to choose between air defense, anti-ship function or the ability to work on the ground

To begin with, Burke can choose ONLY from air defense and the ability to work on the ground. Today, RCC for its UVP does not exist in nature. And what's more, the Shtatovka UVP is fundamentally incapable of containing the Caliber / Onyx level missiles — too small, therefore, it can’t carry ship armaments similar to Nakhimov’s burke in principle

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

but here we must not forget about the presence of 2 Osa air defense systems (40 missiles in total) which are clearly dismantled, but what will be put in place of replacement? At Peter it was 128 SAM "Dagger"

EMNIP, the "Peter" 144 "dagger". And 128 he has "daggers."
Given that the "dagger" and "dagger" died, the most likely candidates are the "shell-M" and the marine version of the "torus". The latter has just recently been tested.

Because yes, the "wasp" - this is not serious. PMSM, it was shoved into ships of the 1st rank in late Soviet times only because it had a “dagger” not so simple.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alexey RA

EMNIP, the "Peter" 144 "dagger". And 128 he has "daggers."

That's right .... Well, of course, daggers, of course!

Quote: Alexey RA

and the marine version of the torus.

YES! It seems to me that this is more serious than the shell. Somehow I have more confidence in the torus

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

YES! It seems to me that this is more serious than the shell. Somehow I have more confidence in the torus

So one does not interfere with the other. If you look at the same “Peter” or “Kuznetsov”, then they have both “daggers” and “daggers”.
The “dagger” was unified according to missiles with the old “torus”. And the "dagger" was made by the same office as the current "carapace" - KBP. So a bunch of air defense systems BD-ZRAK at a new level seems quite logical.

[alexmach]

But in this combination I don’t understand why such a complex as a dagger-shell is needed. In the version of the tunsuk, this is an excellent thing, but why on the ship? On the ship, in theory, you can afford to place yourself 2 separate complexes - missile and cannon. In this case, there will be more ammunition and rate of fire. Why put this dagger with its reloading mechanism from the cellar ... in the same mass it was possible to put an analog of rim-116 + separately AK-630.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: alexmach

But in this combination I don’t understand why such a complex as a dagger-shell is needed. In the version of the tunsuk, this is an excellent thing, but why on the ship?

The last frontier of defense is the guaranteed completion of those anti-ship missiles that have passed through all air defense systems.
And SAMs appeared on ZRAK, because, due to the increase in the speed of anti-ship missiles, it is necessary to finish off as far as possible from the ship. Otherwise, even if the artillery unit of the ZRAK detonates the anti-ship missile system on approach, the resulting fragments of the anti-ship missile system can reach the ship and do things (the Yankees have already encountered this during testing). There are two ways to raise the effective fire range: either increase the caliber ZA, or add missiles that work before turning on the machines. Ours, in order not to develop a new MZA, decided to strengthen its SAM.
You can, of course, break up the complex into separate artillery and rocket units (such as our sworn friends — R2D2 and RAM). But the problem is that at this line of command and control, it is necessary to destroy the anti-ship missiles - for everything, then only the ship’s side. And when separating the missile and artillery units, it still turns out that both the self-defense air defense systems and the ZAK will accompany the same target - the closest one. For at the distances of their work there is practically no time to turn the trunk block and capture, and the SAM does not give a 100% guarantee of defeat.

[alexmach]

The last frontier of defense is the guaranteed completion of those anti-ship missiles that have passed through all air defense systems.

Yes, only who said that finishing is guaranteed. as far as I understand, finishing off anti-ship missiles from the artillery complex is still a trick. At the same time, this applies only to subsonic RCCs; supersonic targets are not at all tough for him.

And when separating the missile and artillery units, it still turns out that both the self-defense air defense systems and the ZAK will accompany the same target - the closest one.

I don’t quite understand why. Why does an air defense system accompany a target that leaves or leaves its affected area?

But the train of thought is clear, thanks.

[11 black]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

YES! It seems to me that this is more serious than the shell. Somehow I have more confidence in the torus

It only seems to you - the Shell and the rocket are better, and in terms of their number there are more, and the twin cannons are in place. So the shell is still better IMHO.
Although, as Andrei said

Quote: Alexey RA

One does not interfere with one another.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: 11 black

It only seems to you - the Shell and the rocket are better, and in terms of their number there are more, and the twin cannons are in place.

You see what’s the matter here - I’m not trying to say for sure, because information through third parties, but as far as I know, the Shell was never brought to mind. The missiles somehow work, but the guns got stuck - it’s bad, and this is even in field conditions, and in the military it’s scary to imagine. In addition, I personally saw a video where the cannons of the shell could not hit a drone flying past them (the speed there was generally ridiculous, maybe 200-300 kilometers per hour)
On the contrary, about Thor I heard only positive reviews - i.e. according to the performance characteristics, it may be more modest, but fulfills them for all 100%

[11 black]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You see what’s the matter here - I’m not trying to say for sure, because information through third parties, but as far as I know, the Shell was never brought to mind. The missiles somehow work, but the guns got stuck - it’s bad, and this is even in field conditions, and in the military it’s scary to imagine. In addition, I personally saw a video where the cannons of the shell could not hit a drone flying past them (the speed there was generally ridiculous, maybe 200-300 kilometers per hour)
On the contrary, about Thor I heard only positive reviews - i.e. according to the performance characteristics, it may be more modest, but fulfills them for all 100%

I partially agree with your criticism - I also saw how the shell was smeared, but I saw it and how it got ... you see, even if the Shell cannot confidently shoot down targets with guns, Thor can’t do anything at all in the range of his guns.
And the guns aren’t the main thing here:
the number of missiles ready for launch is 12 versus 8.
multi-channel guidance system with a more advanced radar
rocket with a launch range of 40km and a speed of almost 5 max

I don’t know if there are modifications of Thor comparable to this, there isn’t in the public domain - but Thor, as he is now (with a range of 15 km), even Apache will not be able to shoot down (the launch range of ATGM 16km), there will soon be 24.

[alexmach]

the number of missiles ready for launch - 12 versus 8

What are you talking about now, about ground systems or ship systems.
If it’s about ship then in the variant of Peter it’s 48 in rotary chestnuts mounted on-board against 128 “torus” missiles in vertical launchers.

[11 black]

Quote: alexmach

What are you talking about now, about ground systems or ship systems.
If it’s about ship then in the variant of Peter it’s 48 in rotary chestnuts mounted on-board against 128 “torus” missiles in vertical launchers.

About ground course

[ty60]

We will not argue, the volume of the drone? A little more than a toaster? X..r compare with a finger, yes tired

[SPERM WHALE]

Well, if zircon is brought to mind, then it will be cooler than a tomahawk. So the number of missiles IMHO is quite normal. But the problem really is that 1 ship against almost 100 backs ....

[Kudrevkn]

I believe that by 2020 both Zvezda (B. Kamen) and Severnaya Verf will be ready to build, if not Leaders, then at least ships of the ocean zone with a displacement of over 10 tons. Good luck to shipbuilders and more ships in the Navy - small and especially large!

[UVB]

It will be a pity if it does not reach the modernization of Admiral Lazarev. In the photo, the cruiser after the completion of the dock repair in 2014.

[goblin xnumx]

I was always amazed - how is such a colossus (ship or pl) held by wooden chocks? :)

[exo]

Beautiful ships built in the USSR. Maybe a miracle will happen and “Frunze”, too, will get a second life.

[Music]

One cruiser from repair, the other at the dock. . The number does not change ...

[Wolka]

with all this, but the time of the battleships is gone, today to solve ocean problems, you can easily get by with boats with a smaller displacement ...

[dsm100]

Quote: Rostovchanin

And in a pair they could do "miracles" ...

They won’t do any miracles in a pair. It would be at least a dozen .... The ocean is big.

[Monarchist]

"addition to this complex" Polymint-Redoubt "I can not disobey:" born out "finally" Polymint "?

[faiver]

We’ll build a spaceport, bridges on about. We are building Russian and in the Crimea, so that it’s impossible to bring to mind a couple of shipyards so that it’s not just one cruiser to drive for modernization?
One hell we need warships in the ocean zone, and we need UDC, and aircraft carriers are their mother, because far from peace in the world, oh how far ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: faiver

that you can’t bring to mind a couple of shipyards

Yes, not only shipyards. A ship is a whole complex of various equipment produced by various enterprises. For example, long-suffering frigates - how long did they expect a new gun? And how much do Redut bring? Shipyards have nothing to do with it. That is, there are overlays there and are quite serious, but work of this magnitude is a question for the entire defense industry.

[Datarem]

If you shoot at ships at long range, you need target designation. And who will give it out interestingly?

[internal enemy]

They would have done better buoys and more corvettes and simpler, but I don’t understand why there are so many modifications of corvettes and frigates, there are also three types of combat helicopters in Russia, why? Practice one in a series of ships of 10 for each fleet, I think it will be right.

[Dart2027]

Quote: inner enemy

why so many modifications of corvettes and frigates

A large series of frigates of the project 22350 was planned, but because of problems with the development of equipment, it was necessary to launch the project 11356 in order to have at least something. Now the matter seems to have moved, so they should launch the planned series.
Corvettes of the project 20380, 20385, 20386 - this is the development of one series, it’s common, the same Berks are far from identical, although they represent a single series

[Alexey RA]

Quote: inner enemy

combat helicopters in rf are also three types, why

Then, when the decision was made on Mi-28 / Ka-52 / Mi-35, there was no guarantee that the first two could be brought to mind. And helicopters were urgently needed and a lot ... however, like all the equipment for the army, air force and navy - for 20 years of a break in updating the park does not end with anything good.
Therefore, they decided: to order two new types of helicopters at two plants (let someone be brought in), and as a safety net, order an already debugged Mi-35 (a sort of T-72B3 among helicopters).
The last decision turned out to be correct - even in 2014, the Ka-52 and Mi-28 were criticized in terms of the inability to operate ATGMs and problems with the engines when launching the NURS. Not for nothing that Mi-35 went to Crimea.

[ty60]

Terms of use.

[camo]

sorry for the "Kirov" such a cruiser was

[Alexey-74]

It’s hard, the process in the Navy is very difficult, it takes time and huge funds, new technologies .... that's when you start to regret those 20 years of lost time, well, God and all the Russian people are with us !!!!!!!!!

[vodoborez]

"Currently, the cruiser carries a twin AK-130 artillery mount with two 130 mm barrels. It was previously mentioned that this weapon will remain in place. For some time, the possibility of using a newer artillery system, including with increased guns, was discussed caliber. "
Why does he need Ak-130 ?? Raven scare ?? He has a bunch of URO !!!
he needs a Ka-31 AWACS like air !!! Without them, he is half-blind.
It is necessary to remove the fluff. This will give a place for 3 more turntables !!!
Come to your senses !!!

[andrew42]

The wording “the number of cruisers in the ranks will be doubled” sounds both funny and mocking. Like about “both Chinese tanks” in a famous joke. One feels a certain style of an invigorating report by the "mayor" - to the "auditor". Is it so hard to write "there was one, there will be two"? (taking into account the repair, again one and for a very long time). Nope, we must sprinkle with the ornate all-covering style of the "Russia-24" channel. A kind request, write in Russian, not managerial, is not a presentation to shareholders in the end.