Military Review

Combat amphibious assault vehicle "Wiesel" and "Wiesel-2" (Wiesel)

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Germany was one of the first to start the formation of the airborne troops and the first to widely use them during the fighting in 1940-1941, but for a long time remained aloof from the "mechanization" of the landing forces. Here they were considered as light highly mobile infantry and limited to only partial "motorization" in the form of half-track motorcycles, although plans for landing tanks and existed. Having begun in 1957 the revival of the airborne troops, the FRG retained the same approach. In 1971, the Bundeswehr adopted the concept of a wider use of airborne assault forces: in an offensive, airborne brigades were to be thrown to a depth of 80-100 km in the interests of army corps, and on defense serve as an airborne reserve. This required greater independence, maneuverability, more difficult weaponsand that means own vehicles. The 1 airborne division (25,26 and 27 brigades) and the airborne detachments of the 1 mountain rifle division began to receive light vehicles "Kraka640" company "Faun" (KRAKA - from Kraftkarren, which can be translated as "two-wheeled motor") . This non-four-wheel-drive car with an opposed two-cylinder engine and a folding frame (originally created, by the way, as an agricultural motoblock), in addition to transport targets, was used to install heavy weapons - recoilless guns, anti-tank missile systems (ATGM) Tou or Milan, automatic guns Rh202.


But at the same time, it was already planned that the airborne forces would receive light airborne assault vehicles. There were samples such as the American air assault tank МХNUMX "Sheridan" or the Soviet military transport vehicle BMD. The Germans decided to create a small armored vehicle, primarily as a weapon carrier for the replacement of the Krak (new all-wheel drive vehicles were considered as vehicles and special vehicles). Accordingly, the armored vehicle required a combination of compactness with a load capacity not less than that of the Krak, a sufficiently high operational (transport by medium military transport aircraft and transport helicopters, landing and parachute landing) and tactical (speed, throughput, power reserve, throttle response, turning ) mobility, the minimum necessary armor protection and ease of management. Requirements for such a machine were transferred to Porsche in the middle of 551 for the development of a draft design.

The car was supposed to serve as a carrier of the 20-mm automatic cannon, the Khotrovo Hot Tank (in development) and 120-mm mortar with ammunition, while being transported by C-130 Hercules and C-160 Tranceall helicopters and CH helicopters -53G, parachute on the parachute platform, so the machine’s own weight was limited to 2,75 t, length - 3,3 m, height to the body - 1,3 m. After reviewing the draft design, military experts issued updated tactical and technical requirements. In particular, the mass was reduced to 2,5, in the version of self-propelled ATGM the French-West German system “Hot” was replaced with the American “Tou”, the crew was increased to 3 people. The CH-53G transport helicopter was supposed to transfer two cars in a cargo cabin or one on an external sling. 5 July 1973 of the Army Command approved the project Waffentrager LL (“airborne weapon carrier”, in the future we will use the definition of “airborne assault vehicle” or BMD) to arm airborne brigades. In accordance with the tradition of giving predatory names to combat vehicles, the BMD was called Wiesel (Wiesel).

The project was attended by five West German companies - Porsche, Faun (the creator of the car Kraka), GST, IBH, Reinsch-tal. "Faun" took up the project of wheeled armored vehicles, the rest - tracked. 18 April 1974 Porsche was announced as the general contractor for the project.

October 9 1975. Porsche, together with the company KUKA, presented a full-size wooden model of the future version of the Wiesel machine with a 20-mm automatic cannon. Back in April, 1975 determined the size of the future order - 270 machines (170 with Tou ATGM and 100 with 20-mm cannon), which later could be brought to 500 (170 and 330, respectively). The company should have delivered the first batch of BMD in February 1977 - May 1978. In parallel with this site, the companies KUKAH "Tehdok" began the preparation of a set of operating and maintenance manuals for the new machine. And in October — November 1977, the 1-I school of technical troops in Aakheiye and the school of the airborne troops in Altenstadt began to prepare relevant training programs.

However, starting with 1975, Porsche built only six prototypes of an armored vehicle weighing about 2,5 tons with a 2 — 3 human crew and a commercial carburetor engine. The problems of developing a machine that fits into such severe restrictions have forced us to shift the deadlines for completing the project.

There was a kind of revival of the idea of ​​the wedge, because the “classical” wedge, the British Carden-Lloyd, was once carried out in variants of the reconnaissance vehicle, the carrier of anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons. After World War II, they tried to return to the wedge heels. For example, in France in 1953 — 1958. 1,5-t tested armored tracked chassis VP-90 (by the way, with the engine "Porsche"), but did not take it into service.

Combat amphibious assault vehicle "Wiesel".

In 1978, the German Ministry of Defense for financial reasons terminated the contract with Porsche, and the company transferred the rights to revision and production of a new Krupp-Ma K machine.

By that time, apparently, the choice between tracked and wheeled PM was not finally made (although it was still at the stage of preliminary design that the wheeled vehicle did not fit into the weight and size limitations). So, at the exhibition “Armored wheeled and tracked vehicles”, held on 3 in September of 1981 in Hammelburg, two prototypes of the Wiesel tracked vehicle were shown, but a little later, Daimler-Benz presented its prototype wheeled machine (4XXNNXX formulas). Nevertheless, in March, 4 was given a task to continue the work on tracked PM. Requirements for the car continued to clarify.

At 1984, Krupp-Ma K presented two prototypes of a machine with an 20-mm cannon and a Tou ATGM at an exhibition of weapons in Athens and announced plans to refine it - in particular, to replace the 2-liter 5-cylinder carburetor engine Volkswagen diesel engine with turbocharging.




The development of 20 variants was proposed, including a command and control vehicle, a self-propelled air defense missile system, a mortar, a flamethrower, a commander, communications and ambulance vehicles, as well as a conveyor on an extended chassis. In 1986, the Bundeswehr tested four advanced prototypes with a diesel engine and an automatic transmission instead of a semi-automatic one. In the process of refinement, both the design details and the appearance of the paper machine were changed. In connection with the new power unit and the finalization of the weapons installation, the roof above the engine, the driver's seat and the roof of the fighting compartment were raised, the blinds on the port side moved higher. The brackets, the location of attachment points on the landing systems, the manhole covers, and the installation of antennas have changed. The undercarriage underwent changes in the drive wheel and the stops of the balancers of the road wheels. The decision on the adoption of the "Wiesel" was adopted by 5 June 1987.

In 1988, Krupp-Ma K was contracted to supply 312, and at the end of the same year - 31 machines (total 210 in Tou option and 133 in MK20 version with automatic gun). The total cost of the order was 208 million. West German brands.

Later, the number of machines ordered was brought to 350, of which 210 with the Tou ATGM, and the rest with a cannon. Deliveries of the Wiesel to the Bundeswehr were calculated from September 1989 to December 1992.

Wiesel has ripened to reorganize the airborne troops of the Bundeswehr under the program "Structure-2000", and great hopes were pinned on this small car. In the spring of 1990, the commander of the 1 Airborne Division (Airborne Division), Major General G. Bernhard, stated that with the Wiesel, airmobile forces would be able to defend positions on a larger front and greater depth. Playing the role of cover, airmobile units will be able to withstand the mechanized enemy. Wiesel will allow the blocking forces to be closer to the enemy, ground reconnaissance will not be limited to foot patrols. ” That is, the actions of airborne assault forces became more active and more maneuverable in the context of the supposed "struggle against the Soviet armored armadas." 1 August of the same year, the 1-I Airborne Division received the first two serial Wiesel PMs. Earlier, seven vehicles were purchased by the United States for testing in the 9 Infantry Division. Norway, Greece, the United Arab Emirates, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand also showed interest in Wiesel. As a result, BMD was tested in the conditions of the desert, the tropics, in the "Arctic" conditions.

Krupp-Mak Mapshienbau in Kiel became the main contractor for the production of Wiesel, subcontractors — Jung-Ugental (building), Volkswagen-Werke (engine), Tandradfabrik Friedrichshafen [T ¥, transmission), “Clowes”, “Dil Remscheid” Caterpillars), “Rheinmetall” (20-mm cannon), C & V- “Vertechnik” (tower). The 1989 Xenumx for the German Bundeswehr was built 1992 machines "Wiesel" ("Wiesel" A345).

Description of the construction WDM.

Wiesel has a layout with a front-mounted gearbox compartment. Right and slightly behind it is the driver's seat. In the stern of the shooter is located (he is - the commander of the machine) or the calculation of ATGM. The car body is welded from sheets of rolled steel armor and is designed to protect against bullets of small arms of caliber 7,62 mm and light fragments of artillery shells and mines. Security is somewhat increased by the slope of the armor plates, as well as by the front engine, but the main protection of the car is its mobility and low visibility. The upper frontal sheet is set at a large angle of inclination and is bent at the edges, forming a frontal cheekbones. In its left part there is a large manhole with a hinged lid, in which there is also a small oval hatch. On the right side of the sheet is made the second hatch for transmission service. The sides of the hull with direct and reverse tilt resemble German armored vehicles from the Second World War. The roof of the case is raised in the middle part in order to knead the engine cooling system and the place of the driver. For the last in the roof there is a hatch with a flip-up lid. In the back, depending on the version of the machine, a single tower with a round hatch is installed, or a wide hatch is made in the hull roof with a hinged up-back cover.



In front of the case on the left there is a power unit, which unites the engine, transmission units, cooling system and air cleaner. Engine - 4-stroke in-line 5-cylinder diesel

Volkswagen turbocharged. Engine displacement is 1,986 L, cylinder diameter is 76 mm, piston stroke is 86 mm. The maximum power (86l.s.) develops at the rotational speed of the crankshaft 4500 r / min, the maximum force - at 2750 r / min. Blinds of a radiator of water cooling are executed in a roof of the case. There is a preheater. The exhaust pipe is derived from the left side along the fender, equipped with a silencer and a mesh grid that reduces the temperature (and hence the thermal signature) of the exhaust gases. At the stern of the car, a protective tank with a capacity of 80 l, made of fiberglass with rubberized fabric, providing self-sinking of small holes, is installed. Polyurethane foam filler prevents an explosion when the tank is punctured by a bullet or splinter.

The T ¥ ZNR22 transmission includes an automatic three-speed planetary gearbox with a torque converter, a two-stage output gearbox, a Keltrek-type differential turning mechanism with disc brakes and final drives. The transmission gives three speeds when moving forward and two speeds back and together with a high (about 31 hp / t) power density of the engine provides high mobility and acceleration. From a place, the car is on a flat road in 5 from accelerates to 32 km / h, in 28 from - to 75 km / h.

The stop foot brake has a hydraulic drive, the hand parking is mechanical. Again, as in the old wedge heels, commercial machines were widely used in the Wiesel. Motion control with the help of a semi-steering wheel is not much different from a car, which speeds up the development of the car by the crews. Quick disconnect connections of pipelines and cables allow replacing the power unit in field conditions in 15 min.

The chassis is somewhat unusual for modern armored vehicles. First of all, it is distinguished by the rubber caterpillar "Dill-Kette". The rubber tape is reinforced with steel cord (wire), which perceives traction, and steel cross-pieces, defining the track pitch, are vulcanized inside it. The outer surface of the truck is divided into squares for better grip.

Previously, solid rubber tracks of a similar design were limitedly used on light transport vehicles, attempts were made to put them on wedges - the American Marmont Harring-Tone (1935) and the French UR-90 (1953) mentioned.

The chassis of the Wiesel includes on board three dual track rollers and a single support roller. The road wheels have an individual torsion bar suspension, vertical 170 stroke mm, spring arm buffers. The guide wheel is also suspended on the lever, to increase the bearing surface is lowered to the ground - a technique popular in 1930 — 1940-rm. With a diameter it exceeds the track rollers and has a vertical stroke of 150 mm. To facilitate the rollers are skitsovannymi and not rubberized. On the front suspension assemblies installed hydraulic shock absorbers.

Stamped drive wheel - front, gearing caterpillars - for the central ridge. Tension adjustment is made automatically by a special mechanism. The length of the track bearing surface is 1,83 m, the track width is 1,62 m. Such a ratio (1,13: 1) provides high tilting, and low specific pressure provides permeability. The normal turning radius is 7,2 m, with the use of parking brakes 4,7 m, with one slowed track, the turn is made on the spot. In speed and power reserve, the Wiesel tracked armored car surpassed the unarmored Krakas, and even more so surpassed it in all terrain. The small length of the bearing surface reduces the forces on the belt when turning and the danger of its twisting and falling. The rubber track facilitates the chassis, provides cushioning of support rollers, reduces running noise, does not destroy the road surface. Low resistance to combat damage, apparently, was not taken into account, based on the characteristics of the use of the machine - in the rear of the enemy and almost "one-time". Fenders are complemented at both ends with stamped wings and rubber dirt breakers.

The BU! -BEM 80 radio station (linear machines have one such radio station installed, two commanding radio stations), working on whip antennas installed in the stern, they lean forward during transportation. It is possible to equip the Wizel machine station with radio stations of the general military information and control system NESSGZ. Three periscopic viewing units are installed in front of the driver's hatch, the middle unit can be replaced with a night vision device. In the front of the case, folding mirrors are reinforced. Headlights are installed ahead, next to them on the fencing shelves - - parking lights. Protection systems against weapons of mass destruction is not provided. The SPTA boxes, camouflage net, towing cable and entrenching tools are mounted on the right fusible shelf and upper front plate. When landing and on the march, the tower or launcher may be covered with a cover. There are towing earrings at the front and rear of the hull, and along the perimeter of the hull there are vehicle attachment points on the landing craft or in the cargo cabin.

Modifications.

The main options for PM are different armament complex.

Wiesel MK20 A1 is armed with an automatic cannon in the E6-H-A1 KiKA single-seat turret with a mounted installation. The gun and two ammunition boxes are mounted on the three brackets to the turret. Even during the development of Wiesel, it was planned to arm the 25-mm Mk-25 "Mauser" cannon, but it was rejected by the Bundeswehr, and the BMD armed the 20-mm Mk20 Yap202 "Rhinemetall", which had a good reputation on the Marder BM, the BM, the BM, and the Bremer Surveillance Unit. "And as anti-aircraft. The gun has an automatic with a gas engine (removal of powder gases), double-sided tape; Part I, designed to combat ground and air targets. Maximum shooting range - 1000 shots / min. The ammunition includes shots with armor-piercing and high-explosive fragmentation projectiles. Subcaliber armor-piercing projectile with an initial speed of 1300 m / s punches at a distance.




1000 m armor thickness up to 20 mm at the meeting angle 60 °. The ammunition is 400 shots, 160 of which are loaded into ribbons and ready to fire. Curved armored ammunition boxes provide protection for the artillery unit, cartridges are supplied through flexible hoses.

In the left box there is a ribbon for 60 ammunition with an armor-piercing projectile, in the right box - for 100 ammunition with a fragmentation projectile. Another 230 (according to other data - 240) cartridges are placed in piles in the aft hull. The angle of horizontal rotation of the tower is 110 ° in both directions, the elevation angle of the installation 1-45 °, the declination of 10. For guidance is a periscopic sight with variable magnification and independent stabilization of the field of view, there is a laser range finder. Provides for the installation of night goggles. For training can be used laser simulator shooting BT-46 SAAB Swedish production.

Already in 1997, Mauser Werke offered to re-equip the Wiesel with its 30-mm RMK30 automatic cannon for a telescopic cartridge, but this proposal remained unfulfilled.

Wiesel TOW A1 is armed with the Tou ATGM system of the American company Hoes Aircraft. The launch tube with a sight and control equipment is mounted on a swivel base with a horizontal angle of 45e in both directions, elevation and declination angles of 10 ". The minimum firing range is 65 m, the maximum - 3750 m, guidance of the ATGM is semi-automatic with command transmission by wire .To attach the 1 launcher, the hinged support serves as a stopover. The open remote installation of ATGM allowed to place a crew of two people in the stern, which should shoot out of the hatch in front of the hatch. There are also ammunition from seven ATGMs in transport and launch containers (two of them are ready for immediate loading after the shot is in PU): it is believed that after launching two ATGMs, the self-propelled ATGM should change position. ATGM BGM- can be used 71C with 600 mm brokability or BGM-71 with a tandem warhead and 700 mm equivalent brobe penetration mm. It is possible to use the BGM-71F ATGM hitting the target from above. An AN / TAS-4 thermal imaging sight can be mounted on the PU. Later, TOW installed a launcher with a new sight designed for the use of BGM-71D ATGM with 152 mm BGM-71E ATGM (TG-2 ATGM and Tou-2A ATGM) designed to combat Soviet T-tanks. -72 and T-80 with dynamic protection).

It is possible to land the BDM by parachute method (on the 4-ton modular parachute platform), however, preference was given to landing landing from airplanes during the landing of an operational landing force or by a helicopter during a tactical landing. Transport Boeing 747 accommodates 24 machines, C-5 Galaxy - 30, C-141 Starlifter - six, medium military transport C-160 "Transall" (standard in the German Air Force) - four, C-130 "Hercules" - three. To load the Wiesel on the platform, an airfield loader is used. The regular medium transport helicopter of the Bundeswehr CH-53G transports two Wiesel PMs in a cargo cabin or one car on an external sling, these are also the capabilities of the Chinook CH-47 helicopter. 14-60A Black Hawk or Super Puma helicopters can deliver one Wiesel BDM on an external sling. Krupp-Mak offered a removable “buoyancy kit” for the Wiesel, but it did not enter the order given to the company by the Bundeswehr.

The Bundeswehr also adopted the self-propelled radar ground reconnaissance RATAC-Sha landing gear "Wiesel" for reconnaissance battalions and artillery reconnaissance platoons. The radar was developed by Standard Electronics Lorenz together with the French Thomson and belongs to the pulse-Doppler frequency range 9,4 — 9,6 GHz. The antenna and transceiver are mounted on a lifting boom (lifting height up to 12 m), a digital signal processing system and a console with a display are inside the case. The station is used to detect and track targets in automatic or manual mode with the trajectory displayed on the display. The detection range of ground and low-flying targets is up to 35 — 40 km (at an elevation of the antenna), the accuracy of determining the coordinates is up to 10 m.

Also developed a number of other variants of the machine, remaining experienced. One of them was a light combat reconnaissance vehicle with a twin installation of 12,7-mm and 7,62-mm machine guns in the single-sided SAMM BTM 298 or BTM 108 turret. The option of installing a turret with a self-loading (automatic) 60-mm mortar and 7,62-mm machine gun was also offered.

A self-propelled ATGM with an ATM (Anti-Tank Modular) turret of the Euromissil consortium was presented, equipped with two Hot-Tactical missile launchers “Hot” (firing range up to 4 km), two-channel periscopic sight, television and infrared equipment on the extendable rack and 7,62-mm MG3 machine gun. The advantage of this option was the launch of the ATGM operator “because of the reservation,” but it was not put into service either in the Federal Republic of Germany or in France, where the British were tested. Later, for the Wizel, a turret with a Milan-2 ATGM was developed, as well as a new turret with an ATGM “Hot” and a set of heat and television equipment on a retractable bar. An ammunition transporter was also developed to replenish the Wiesel ammunition TOW A1.

The ASRAD / RB90 self-propelled air defense system was used in the Wiesel chassis of the Wiesel chassis using the RBS-70 Bofors man-portable air defense missile system. SAM can be used against both airborne and lightly armored ground targets. The roof of the hull is slightly raised, the installation with four missiles, the Atlas Electronic sighting system and a laser control system are mounted on the swiveling turret.

The US Department of Defense was considering the possibility of creating a crew-less “robotic battlefield machine” on the Wizel A1 base. Wiesel also served as a workhorse in more than one such program in Europe. An example is the PRIMUS complex assembled by the Dornier company (ЕАДС concern) on the landing gear chassis of the Wiesel aircraft. It includes a robotic machine with a video camera and a laser locator for viewing the terrain, a digital navigation system, an autonomous motion, decision-making and control module, as well as a self-propelled remote control point.

On the combat use of BMD "Wiesel".

By the time the delivery of the Wiesel W1 modification was completed, the reunification of the German Bundeswehr under the Structure-5 program began. Based on airborne brigades and army regiments aviation began to form airmobile connections, at the same time, rapid reaction forces were created. By 1995, the airborne brigade (UBR) was armed with 46 Vizel PM TOWA1 and 30 Vizel MK20A1, while each anti-tank company had nine TOWA1 Wizels and six MK20A1 Wizels. Eight CH-53G helicopters or four S-160 aircraft could be used to transport such a company. In addition, 16 TOW WIZEL PMs entered the anti-tank company of the 23rd Mountain Infantry Brigade (also included in airborne forces). The 25th Armed Forces battalion was included in the national airborne forces, it was also intended to be allocated to the UN peacekeeping force. In 27, the 31th Airborne Forces and the 1993st Mechanized Brigade were reorganized into the 31st Airborne Brigade and a year later included in the multinational airmobile division "Center" of the NATO Rapid Reaction Force. The 26th Armed Forces battalion was directly transferred to the NATO RBF.



Wedge wedge in Afghanistan.

The first "overseas business trip" of Wiesel cars was the participation of the German contingent in the UNOSOM-2 operation in Somalia, where the "blue helmets" of Germany arrived in the summer of 1993. Although airborne operations were not conducted here, of all the Bundeswehr armored vehicles, according to German specialists, " Wiesel A1 in its compactness and mobility was most suitable for solving patrol and reconnaissance tasks. After the NATO aggression against Yugoslavia in 1999, the German contingent entered Kosovo as part of KFOR, here the Wizel A1 BDM (as in Somalia - in both versions) was also used to patrol roads. However, the NATO forces, as is known, did not bring peace to Kosovo.

Wiesel-2.

During the development of Wiesel, it was proposed to create a more spacious version with an undercarriage elongated by one support roller. At the beginning of the 1990's NATO increasingly began to assert its influence by "peacekeeping" operations. The principle of non-use of the German armed forces abroad ceased to be mandatory, it took to expand the capabilities of combat vehicles of the rapid reaction forces.


The layout of the machine gun "Wiesel-2 in the version of the ammunition conveyor.

In the middle of 1994, the Mac Systems Gesellschaft (Kiel) presented a prototype of the Wiesel-2 PMM, developed on a proactive basis. Later, the Mac Systems was absorbed into the Rhinemetal Landsystem (included in Rheinmetall DeTECAG).

BDM "Wiesel-2" retained the layout scheme with the location of the MTO in the front of the hull on the left, the place of the driver to the right of the MTO and the fighting (amphibious) branch in the rear part. Somewhat changed the body of the machine. Upper front sheet continued back, so that the driver's door is already made in it. Three periscopic viewing units are installed in front of the driver's hatch, the middle one can be replaced by a backlit night vision device. Behind the driver in a protruding wheelhouse with the top hatch is placed commander. In the stern sheet of the hull there is a double door.

Combat amphibious assault vehicle "Wiesel" and "Wiesel-2" (Wiesel)

Comparison of the dimensions of the housing Wizel (in gray) and Wiesel-2.

In the undercarriage, a fourth track roller and a second support roller were added from each side, the length of the support surface increased to 2,43 m, shock absorbers were installed on the first and second suspension units.

Wiesel-2 received a commercial-type Volkswagen-Audiia-TDI diesel engine equipped with a turbo-supercharger and developing HP 109 power, automatic transmission ZF LSG 300 / 4 (it was supposed to test electric transmission on experimental machines) and hydrostatic turning mechanism. Hydromechanical transmission includes: an automatic planetary gearbox with integrated hydrodynamic transmission, a steering mechanism assembled in one case with the gearbox, and two final drives. The gearbox has two modes of operation - for driving on highways and over rough terrain - and provides four forward and two reverse speeds. The rotation mechanism is a double controlled differential, at the ends of the shafts of which brakes are installed, the servo control system of the turn and brakes is hydrostatic. Turning radius - 4 — 6 m. The electronic control system allows you to “adapt” the operation of the engine and transmission to the combat weight of the vehicle (depending on the modification) and driving conditions. New tracks “Dil Type 622” with an increased resource are installed. Power reserve increased to 550 km by increasing the capacity of the fuel tank. The on-board network has a voltage of 24 volts, powered by two 12-volt batteries with a capacity of 45 Ah each.


The command and command vehicle on the Wiesel-2 chassis.

One can see the desire to create a family of BMD, somewhat resembling the Soviet BMD-BTR-D, although it is based on different approaches. It is worth noting that the Wiesel family is more adapted for tactical (helicopter) landings. A CH-53 helicopter can transport two Wiesel-2 cars in a cargo cabin, one Wiesel-2 can be deployed on an external suspension with a CH-53G or CH-47 helicopter. In 1994, the Bundeswehr entered into a contract with Rheinemetall Landsystem for the supply of 32 BMP Wiesel-2 during 2005 — 2007.

With the same aero-transportability and mobility, Wiesel-2 complements Wiesel A1 machines. Wizel-2 can be transferred by the same aircraft and helicopters, but the number of cars being transferred is on average one less: accordingly, in the C-160 “Transall” cargo compartment, you can transfer 3 machines, C-130 “Hercules” - 2, helicopters CH-53G - 1. At the same time, the almost doubled habitable volume allowed us to carry out a family of amphibious assault vehicles on the base of the Wizel-2. Among them are the combat reconnaissance vehicle, light armored personnel carrier, transport, sanitary-evacuation, command and command vehicles, self-propelled 120-mm mortar, radiation and chemical reconnaissance vehicle.

The Wizel-2 BRM is equipped with a complex of reconnaissance equipment, including a laser range finder, a thermal imaging and television camera, and a satellite navigation equipment mounted on a retractable mast, equipped with a machine gun.

The BTR has a 6 man's capacity, as well as the BRM, armed with an 7,62-mm MG3 machine gun above the rotating turret of a vehicle commander in the middle of the hull. Ammunition machine gun - 500 cartridges. Along the perimeter of the commander's turret installed 8 periscopic viewing units.

Presented in 1998, the KSHM Wiesel-2, with a crew of 3, is equipped with stations of the HERGIS information management system (developed by Siemens, Sema Group and InfoDas) with 7-inch displays, two VHF radio stations and one KB range and satellite navigation equipment. Such a machine was offered as an advanced point of reconnaissance and fire control of artillery, arming it for self-defense by a machine gun installation. Ammunition machine gun - 200 — 500 ammunition.


Sanitary evacuation vehicle on the Wiesel-2 chassis (SanTrp).

A transport vehicle on the Wiesel-2 chassis with a payload in 1,0 t is offered primarily as a conveyor of ammunition and can carry, for example, 20 shots to 120-mm mortar or 150 to 81-mm. It can also carry 22 — 27 20-liter fuel or water canisters.
The Wiesel-2 (SanTrp) sanitary-evacuation vehicle was demonstrated at 1997 and interested in the Bundeswehr. The machine has an enlarged hull with a large lump door, a crew of 2 people, in the aft hull of the hull you can place one lying (on a stretcher) and two sitting wounded, in another version - two lying injured (in two tiers) and one sitting or four sitting. In addition to medical equipment and first-aid equipment supplied by the German company Binz, the machine can be equipped with a water heater, HLF and air conditioning.


Self-propelled mortar on the chassis "Wiesel-2" and its layout.




Wiesel-2 was also proposed as a tractor-conveyor for 81-mm or 120-mm mortars equipped with a wheel drive. Calculation and mortar ammunition (20 shots for 120-mm or 75 for 81-mm) is transported inside the case.

Self-propelled mortar, presented by Rhinemetal Landsystem, has a crew (crew) 3 person. The 120-mm muzzle-loading mortar with wheel chops is mounted openly in the rear of the Wiesel-2 case. The stern also mounted two folding-opener jacks. In the stowed position and for loading the mortar barrel is lowered into a horizontal position, which allows the calculation to make loading of the mortar, while remaining under the cover of armor. To speed up the preparation of data for shooting and increase its accuracy, the machine is equipped with an on-board computer and an integrated navigation system. The rate of fire - 3 shot for 20 with, firing range of existing mines - up to 6,3 km, promising mine with increased replaceable charge - up to 8 km, ammunition load - 20 shots. On the same chassis can be performed transport-loading machine.

The Wiesel-2 chassis turned out to be more convenient for continuing work on the air defense system of the battlefield or light air defense system (LeFlaSys - Leichtes Flugabwehr System), designed for use by the rapid reaction forces. The complex was developed by order of the Bundeswehr firm STN "Atlas Electronics" with 1995 g .; in 1997, it was represented as part of three vehicles - a self-propelled air defense missile system, a self-propelled reconnaissance and fire control station and a surveillance vehicle. The first two are made on the Wiesel-2 chassis, the last on the Mercedes-Benz Wolf chassis (4x4, the car is designed for parachute landing from an airplane). Then the car of the UF / BF battery commander was introduced - also on the Wiesel-2 chassis.

The self-propelled short-range air defense missile system, known as the Ocelot (already tested in 2001), carried a remote-controlled rotary launcher in the stern (similar to the A1 tested on Wiesel), which can accommodate four missiles at the TPC from Stinger ". There are also options for the installation of missiles from Igla-1 MANPADS (the complexes remaining from the NNA GDR are used in the Bundeswehr for training) and RBS-70. Firing range - up to 6 km. The launch angle of the launcher horizontally is 360 °, vertically is from -10 to + 70 °, the launcher can be lowered for transportation of the Ocelot launcher by CH-53 helicopter. Installation reloading - manually.
The Ocelot SAM system is also equipped with the Gyro MK20 BGT orientation system, GPS PLGR AN-PSN satellite navigation equipment, SEM 93 VHF radio communication equipment, the British passive air warning system ADAD


Self-propelled PU complex "Ocelot".


Self-propelled reconnaissance and control station of the Ocelot air defense missile system.

"Tails Optronics" (the range of detection of the target type "aircraft" - up to 18 km, "helicopter" - up to 8 km). This allows the complex to act independently without targeting from the side. The calculation of the air defense system consists of a driver and commander. The combat mass of the SAM "Ocelot" - 4 t.

The self-propelled reconnaissance and fire control station is equipped with a three-coordinate HARD radar system of the centimeter range produced by the Swedish Erickson Microwave Systems with a target detection range of 20 km, which is an improved version of the RACS of the Swedish RBS90 air defense system, the “other-to-own” MSR 200 X-ray XRUM X-ray chimeter and the Chancers and the Ip chrometept masters. Information about the targets is automatically transmitted to the LR system via digital communication channels. Calculation station - 2 person (including the driver).

Each LeFlaSys system battery must include a battery commander’s car and three platoons, each with one command post and five Ocelot self-propelled air defense systems. For an earlier detection of air targets and the transfer of data about them through a digital communication channel, a battery can be attached to a battery observation machine.


Wiesel wedge armed with a 30 mm Mauser cannon.

In total, 67 machines of this complex were ordered on the Wiesel-2 chassis: 50 self-propelled SAMs, 10 reconnaissance and control stations and 7 machines of the battery commander with the end of deliveries to 2003. The Krauss-Maffei Wegman concern was attracted to the production. The machines for the first platoon were delivered at the start of 2001.

On the market, this short-range air defense system is presented under the designation ASRAD. Greece ordered it on the chassis of the Hummer car, Finland on the chassis of the Unimog 5000 car and on the SAM system of the RBS-70 complex (ASRAD-R).

Rheinmetall Landsystem presented an engineering reconnaissance vehicle on the Wiesel-2 chassis, equipped with equipment for reconstructing water obstacles and minefields, demining charges, HLF and armed with a machine gun. Taking into account the power to the chassis can be created and landing BREM.


Wedge "wedge" in the French army.

The Wizel-2 PM also served as the basis for the development of crewless robotic machines. The French built a Cyrano demo on this chassis, designed to demonstrate the very possibility of creating such a machine. The Rhinemetal Landsystem itself in 1996 introduced several experimental machines: the PRIMUS complex (Eads Dornier), including a robotic machine with a video camera and a laser scanner (operating at a distance of 50 m) for viewing the terrain, a digital navigation system, an autonomous module movement, control and decision-making and self-propelled remote control point (on the same chassis "Wiesel"); machine combining autonomous robotic control system of the new generation with remote control by wire and designed to work in the danger zone, demining, etc. Machines were presented in the form of platforms for the installation of various work equipment, reconnaissance equipment or weapons. The Wizel-2 ARGUS machine (was presented in the form of a mock-up) equipped with a sliding platform with the detection and surveillance equipment of the Atlas Electronic company STN, a set of control tools to perform the functions of reconnaissance, patrolling, supply, and also satellite navigation equipment, radio equipment with a digital communication channel, an auxiliary generator.
Wizel034.jpg Wizel035.jpg
The variant of the air defense system with a combination of missile defense systems "Igla-1" and RBS-70 on the chassis BDM "Wiesel" A1. Engineering reconnaissance vehicle on the Wiesel-2 chassis.
"Small" and "light"

Although the formation and development of the rapid reaction force and airmobile compounds has received much attention in many countries, it is difficult to find an analogue of the Wiesel machine in other countries. It differs from the Soviet (Russian) BMD and BTR-D both in terms of its “weight category” and its purpose. Among tracked vehicles close to Wiesel is the EE-T4 chassis of the Brazilian company Engesa with 3,6 t mass and front-mounted 125-strong engine and travels up to 75 km / h. The ЕЕ-Т4 was also offered in the BRM version with a machine gun or cannon, self-propelled anti-tank systems or mortars, however, it remained experimental.

Close to the destination 4,5-tracked chassis VRX-5000 was developed in France also for airborne units. From the mass-produced vehicles we can mention the French floating light armored car M11 “Panhard” - another return of the “old type” of armored vehicles (recall the Soviet D-12 and BA-20 in the landing party). All-wheel drive (4x4) MP 3,6 mass t entered service in 1990 g. As a reconnaissance and carrier weapons for rapid reaction forces, was supplied to a number of countries. The Italian OTO-Melara developed wheeled armored vehicles of the same purpose of the 2,5-3 class, the Turkish Otokar produces the Akrep armored vehicle with the 3,6 mass. In general, the modern wedge tanks Wiesel and its enlarged version Wiesel 2 ”- remain a unique family.

Literature and sources:

1. Vasily N.Ya., Gurinovich AL. Anti-aircraft missile systems. - Minsk: Potpourri, 2002.
2. Foreign Military Review, 1988, №10; 1991, No. 11; 1997, No. 3; 1999, No. 9; 2004, No. 5.
3. Messages ITAR-TASS, 25.08.04.
4. Foss CF Jane's. Tanks. Recognition Guide. - HarperCollins Publishers, 1996.
5. Armada Inernational, 2001, No. 4.
6. International Defense Review, 1984, #12.
7. Jane's Defense Weekly, 1998, 22.07.
8. Kampftruppen, 1986, No. 7.
9. McNab C. Military Vehicles. - London: Grange Books, 2003.
10. PC Week, 1999, 9 — 15fevr.
11. Sheibert M. Waffentra'ger Wiesel 1 // Waffen-Arsenal. Band 136. - Podzun-Pallas-VerlagGmbH, Friedberg, 1992.
12. Soldat und Technik, 2002, No.9.
13. The Directory of Modern Military Weapons. Edited by C. Bishop. - London: Greenwich Editions, 1999.
14. Tracked & Wheeled Light Armored Vehicles // - IDR, 8 / 1986.
15. Wehrtechnik, 1993, No.2; 1994, No. 2,7; 1995, No. 1; 1996, No. 5,8.
16. Armored Weapon Carrier WIESEL. Prospect KRUPP-MAK.
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  1. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 22 July 2013 07: 46 New
    +8
    Battle flea! ..
    Article plus. Very interesting. Sometimes in the news from problem regions it was possible to see this typewriter ... "Accustomed" with eyes to the silhouettes of our landing armored vehicles, the consideration of such a gadget causes some bewilderment.
    Without pretending to be "the ultimate truth": it seems to me that the car is in the cannon version, to fight the people's militia and partisans (read punitive actions or escorting caravans, well, drive Tuaregs across the desert ...); in the variant with TOU - only the ambush principle of use, and after the shot “quickly, very quickly smear the heels with fat ...”
    It’s difficult to imagine the confrontation between their airliners and our airborne forces, but "in the order of delirium": it doesn’t roll, oh, this technique doesn’t roll ...
    Although, colleagues, maybe someone is familiar with the staff of German air car owners and the concept of using these teams in database maintenance? Comments, pliz ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 22 July 2013 09: 23 New
      +4
      Everything is there:

      http://www.modernarmy.ru/article/48

      In addition, the Wizels are not only among the paratroopers, but also among the rangers. In the companies of fire support jaeger battalions

    2. mark1
      mark1 22 July 2013 09: 32 New
      +2
      The machine, of course, is frankly weak, something related to it with the Carden-Lloyd, or our T-27, they also tried to use them (due to the futility in the form of tankettes) as carriers of weapons and without much success. But if we observe evolution, “Wiesel” - “Wiesel 2”, then we can safely say that “Wiesel-3” will already be similar to our BMD. That is, the Germans starting "their way" will eventually go the same way as we but with a lag (catch up).
      1. Akim
        Akim 22 July 2013 09: 37 New
        +5
        Quote: mark1
        mark1

        Do not chase the size. This is a car for airborne divisions, but they haven’t created anything for us since the beginning of the 80s. One UAZ.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 22 July 2013 09: 49 New
          +4
          They didn’t create anything for us at all.
        2. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 22 July 2013 21: 06 New
          0
          Quote: Akim
          Do not chase the size. This is a car for airborne divisions, but they haven’t created anything for us since the beginning of the 80s. One UAZ.


          Akim! But what about BMD? After all, they are also aero-transportable, but in terms of protection-weapons-combat effectiveness they are significantly superior to Wiesel. Or am I wrong?
          1. Akim
            Akim 22 July 2013 22: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Blackgrifon
            but in terms of protection-armament-combat effectiveness they are significantly superior to Wiesel.

            It depends on which BMD to compare. With BMD-2 they are equal.
            1. Blackgrifon
              Blackgrifon 22 July 2013 22: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Akim
              It depends on which BMD to compare. With BMD-2 they are equal.


              Sorry, Akim! But by what characteristics? As far as I remember the TTX BMD-2, it still surpasses the Wiesel. And then the dimensions of the “German” say that it is less convenient for the crew. Yes, it can be transported by helicopter, but in general?
              1. Akim
                Akim 22 July 2013 22: 32 New
                0
                Quote: Blackgrifon
                As far as I remember the TTX BMD-2, it still surpasses the Wiesel.

                In the warhead, the Wiesel is not inferior to 2A42 in the BMD-2. Do not forget this is just a combat box, which would support the landings fire.
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 23 July 2013 10: 20 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  In the warhead, the Wiesel is not inferior to 2A42 in the BMD-2. Do not forget this is just a combat box, which would support the landings fire.

                  Rollback gun 2A42 with its 30mm caliber 5 tons. Probably therefore:
                  .. Even during the development of the Wiesel, it was planned to arm the Mk-25E Mauser with a 25-mm gun, but it was rejected by the Bundeswehr, and the BMDs armed the 20-mm Mk20 Yap202 Rheinmetal,
                  .
                  That is, it is inferior in armament (and by a lot), since a gun larger than 20 mm in caliber can not withstand it.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 23 July 2013 10: 47 New
                    +1
                    Do you like this photo with a 30mm RMK30 gun?
                    The Bundeswehr is rearming all 20 militia on them.
                    1. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 23 July 2013 11: 25 New
                      0
                      smile Yes, about the powerful rollback 30mm was right, but did not take into account that the Germans can put recoilless. I admit, I was wrong.

              2. Gorchilin
                Gorchilin 26 July 2013 13: 39 New
                -2
                The difference between the BMD and this machine is the same - the BMD CANNOT be used for its intended purpose. The only time they were able to be used was during the assault on Amin’s palace, and then in a landing way. And that’s all!

                During the big war, the BTA will simply not be able to act, enemies will easily sort out heavy aircraft over its territory.

                The machine should be transported by a Mi-8 helicopter, helicopter landings during local conflicts and really landed.

                That is, BMD is a clumsy BMP, so you need to look at it.

                Now in the Airborne Forces there is simply NO technique suitable for landing in real conditions. Unless, there, you can land a bobik.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 July 2013 09: 48 New
        0
        Quote: mark1
        The machine, of course, is frankly weak,

        And with which helicopters of BT equipment you transported, did you compare it?
        1. Turik
          Turik 22 July 2013 12: 39 New
          -2
          The Germans were able to build beautiful equipment! Tigers, self-propelled guns, armored cars are the standards of the armored power of their years.

          And now what - some sort of toilet on wheels with a bazooka.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 July 2013 13: 06 New
            +2
            Where did you see the bazooka?
          2. cosmos111
            cosmos111 22 July 2013 13: 06 New
            +1
            Witzel and Wiesel-2 amphibious assault vehicle (Wiesel

            Wiesel is a “miscarriage” of the German armored industry. Everyone has errors
    3. Mister X
      Mister X 22 July 2013 18: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Scary Warrant Officer
      Battle flea!

      Created in the image and likeness of the British light tank Mk VI from Vickers-Armstrong

      1. Mister X
        Mister X 22 July 2013 18: 31 New
        +1
        And what is this modification?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 22 July 2013 18: 55 New
          +2
          There is an article about her

          "Wiesel-2" ARGUS (was presented in the form of a prototype), equipped with a retractable platform with STN Atlas Electronics detection and surveillance equipment, a set of control tools for performing reconnaissance, patrolling, supply functions, as well as satellite navigation equipment and digital radio equipment communication channel, auxiliary generator.
          1. Mister X
            Mister X 22 July 2013 19: 03 New
            0
            That is, Argus did not go into the series and was not adopted for service?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 22 July 2013 19: 32 New
              +3
              Yes, only in the form of an experimental car.
              The series went like this: Wiesel 2 JFST
              1. Mister X
                Mister X 22 July 2013 21: 42 New
                +2
                You plus sign and my respect, maestro!
                Confused rearview mirrors.
                Is there any benefit from them?
                Go fly if the bushes with a breeze ride.
                Many manufacturers already install rear-view cameras.
                Or is it already laid in the TOR in the 3rd version?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 22 July 2013 22: 20 New
                  +1
                  They have so it should be. I suspect that even with cameras, mirrors will be present.
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 22 July 2013 22: 26 New
                  +3
                  Leopard-2A7 + It's not just a rear view camera, it's a circular panorama in day-night mode. But the mirrors are in place.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 22 July 2013 22: 29 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    But the mirrors are in place.
                    German practicality ...
                    1. Mister X
                      Mister X 23 July 2013 11: 57 New
                      0
                      Quote: svp67
                      German practicality ...

                      Most likely archaism and a relic of the past.
                3. Heinrich ruppert
                  Heinrich ruppert 22 July 2013 23: 33 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Spade
                  They have so it should be. I suspect that even with cameras, mirrors will be present.

                  Quote: Mister X
                  You plus sign and my respect, maestro!
                  Confused rearview mirrors.
                  Is there any benefit from them?
                  Go fly if the bushes with a breeze ride.
                  Many manufacturers already install rear-view cameras.
                  Or is it already laid in the TOR in the 3rd version?

                  I can explain this. You need to pay attention first to the caterpillars. You see rubber pads, this car is approved for use on paved roads. And the rules say that the vehicle must be equipped with a mirror
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 22 July 2013 23: 47 New
                    +1
                    I say that it should be. Regardless of various fintyflushki like rear view cameras. Most likely, the size of the mirrors is standardized.
                    1. Heinrich ruppert
                      Heinrich ruppert 22 July 2013 23: 54 New
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      I say that it should be. Regardless of various fintyflushki like rear view cameras. Most likely, the size of the mirrors is standardized.

                      You are absolutely right. When they wrote traffic rules for rear-view cameras there wasn’t. And mirrors with MV series SK.
                    2. Mister X
                      Mister X 23 July 2013 12: 09 New
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      Most likely, the size of the mirrors is standardized.

                      They probably still carry several sets of mirrors with them:
                      for replacement, in case of damage to the main ones installed on the machine.
  2. Bongo
    Bongo 22 July 2013 08: 15 New
    +2
    Somehow the Germans do not look seriously at such "armored vehicles".
  3. Akim
    Akim 22 July 2013 10: 02 New
    +4
    Can someone enlighten what we have to answer? Although the answer is obvious.
    1. avt
      avt 22 July 2013 11: 33 New
      +9
      Quote: Akim
      Can someone enlighten what we have to answer? Although the answer is obvious.

      request Well, what is happiness then? Well, let's revive the Su-57, the old, landing. By golly, as children, it is all in all that they require a protected BMD, then for a frankly weak design they carefully come up with archival applications - a niche in which only this pepelats is able to work effectively. Well, what - the Germans did! Immediately I recall Pupyrchaty with the Professor - it all disappeared and the Tiger didn’t keep blowing up and undermining, but Ivek was using the whole world, then he suddenly found a light convertible - a buggy and only he would save the special forces from everything, because he would quickly leave and did not have time to undermine. laughing This Wiesel is cool, but complete, God forbid, those really in Chechnya, or as they once were in Afghanistan.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 July 2013 12: 00 New
        +8
        Dear, do you know that we have airborne assault brigades? One in each district plus as part of the Airborne Forces.

        Remember how the Kamyshinsky blocked the border with Georgia during the second Chechen border? Do you know that then, throughout the West group, they gathered ATGM operators with portable Bassoons to somehow strengthen them, because they had nothing heavier than LNG and 82-mm mortars?

        And you Wiesel think of some kind of "joke". "Women give birth to new ones, but where can I get horses" (c)?

        1. avt
          avt 22 July 2013 15: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          And you Wiesel think of some kind of "joke". "Women give birth to new ones, but where can I get horses" (c)?

          And you tell this to the Shaman, otherwise he, probably with a fool, for BMD 4 and Octopus, also the airmobile version of the Tiger, is fighting. Well, from such a Wiesel - yes, we’ll definitely save the fighters.
          Quote: Akim
          It is better to return the ACS-57 than nothing at all. By the way - a good solution. Upgrade it and go.

          Yeah laughing Well, thanks to Uncle Vasya, things appeared more and more powerful and maybe the Shamans would break through the normal, sane rearmament of the airborne forces.
          Quote: Spade
          What is our massive helicopter? That's right, Mi-8. What are its limitations?

          You look from what Sikorsky Wiesel is unloaded and then where does the figure eight come from? Here are MI-38 class cars, and besides parachuting equipment, you can also parachute using an exhaust method. Ameri prefer it quite successfully. And by the way, if you look carefully and do a historical analysis, you will make sure that all this rubbish was not invented by the Germans from a good life. After the war, they were simply forbidden to make armored vehicles, aircraft and navy, as well as Italians. Remember how much they rode on the M-48 before they were allowed to make the first Leopard. And what about their 206s with muzzle-loading disposable torpedo tubes? And when did they get the first Messershmit helicopter? I don’t mention military aviation at all - only francs have their own planes. Nehren fool around - you need to do the normal technique with which the airborne forces decided.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 July 2013 15: 34 New
            0
            Quote: avt
            You look from what Sikorsky Wiesel is unloaded and then where does the figure eight come from?

            Despite the fact that the Germans have 172 pieces of Sea Stellionov, 60 in the Air Force and 112 in the army aviation.

            Quote: avt
            And by the way, if you look carefully and do a historical analysis, you will make sure that all this rubbish was not invented by the Germans from a good life. After the war, they were simply forbidden to make armored vehicles, aircraft and navy, as well as Italians.

            Here you do not agree. Leopard 1 has been manufactured since 1966. And the first two Wizels were presented to the public in 1981.

            Quote: avt
            And you tell this to the Shaman, otherwise he, probably with a fool, for BMD 4 and “Octopus”, beats

            And “Shaman” to put a big bolt on the air assault brigades, although he is obliged to provide them with modern weapons. They are in his position as stepsons. UAZ ride
            1. avt
              avt 22 July 2013 16: 31 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Here you do not agree. Leopard 1 has been manufactured since 1966. And the first two Wizels were presented to the public in 1981.

              Everything converges, it seems so that once in five minutes they built and invented everything, believe me as an engineer, although I haven’t been working in my specialty for a long time, there is such a thing - school, if you break the chain of acceptance, it will be very difficult to restore, sometimes it’s impossible to do from scratch. Here the Germans were driven into such a situation after the war completely officially, and we - everything is decided by Gaidar reforms about the market. Hence our current state - when we often cannot even repeat what we already had. They didn’t have a good life from Wizel, it was tied to the general condition of transport aircraft and parachute units in general, that’s what the Amerts allowed them to do - they did, the occupied country to this day.
              1. old man54
                old man54 22 July 2013 17: 49 New
                +2
                Quote: avt
                They didn’t have a good life from Wizel, it was tied to the general condition of transport aircraft and parachute units in general, that’s what the Amerts allowed them to do - they did, the occupied country to this day.

                Speak the truth! "+"!
              2. Lopatov
                Lopatov 22 July 2013 18: 11 New
                0
                Quote: avt
                They didn’t have a good life from Wizel; it was tied to the general condition of transport aviation and parachute units in general

                "Wiesel" tied to the tactics of the Airborne.
          2. Akim
            Akim 22 July 2013 16: 11 New
            +2
            Quote: avt
            Yeah, well, thanks to Uncle Vasya, things appeared more and more powerful and maybe Shamanov could break through the normal, sane rearmament of the airborne forces.

            You are comparing different things. Magrelov, the kingdom of heaven to him, also perfectly understood the meaning of DShB. And it was under him that they began to create them. The fact that he was dismissed and prevented the air motorists will receive "their equipment."
      2. Akim
        Akim 22 July 2013 13: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: avt
        Well, what is happiness then? Well, let's revive the Su-57, the old, landing.

        It is better to return the ACS-57 than nothing at all. By the way - a good solution. Upgrade it and go. But by the end of the 70s we already had them in stocks.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 22 July 2013 11: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: Akim
      Can someone enlighten what we have to answer?

      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 July 2013 12: 10 New
        0
        Cool. And how many of them do we have? 30 with a penny. If everyone is gathered, can they transport one battalion to the BMD-2?
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 22 July 2013 12: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          And how many of them do we have? 30 with copecks. If you gather everyone, can they transport one battalion to BMD-2?

          Well, if you still have to wait with BMD purchases until the “Kurganets” with the “Boomerang” appears (as you suggest), then 30 turntables are enough for the eyes to translate what the paratroopers are on the move.

          And if we compare our BMD (even the first issues) with Wiesel, the comparison will clearly not be in favor of the latter.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 July 2013 12: 40 New
            0
            Quote: Bad_gr
            And if we compare our BMD (even the first issues) with Wiesel, the comparison will clearly not be in favor of the latter.

            Why? Booking is the same, weapons are more powerful

            And by the way, you are for removing BMD-2 from the troops. And starting with BMD-3, a “cow” can carry only one car. So one battalion is not enough.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 22 July 2013 12: 57 New
              +8
              Quote: Spade
              And starting with BMD-3, a “cow” can carry only one car.

              So be it. Now compare with Wiesel. On their helicopter "Wiesel" is placed 2-a.
              And that

              they drop 2 very lightly armored vehicles with light weapons by helicopter, and
              6 is a man of fighters.

              We are one BMD-4m. And this is a 100mm cannon + 30mm cannon + 1 machine gun only in the car, well, and 8 fighters with their own equipment. Compared to Wiesel, our BMD-4m is armored like a tank (if landing a car without a parachute, then 4 tons of additional reservations are hung on the BMD instead). In addition, this whole economy also swims, so that rivers and lakes are not an obstacle for her.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 22 July 2013 13: 11 New
                +2
                All this is spherokonin.
                What is our massive helicopter? That's right, Mi-8. What are its limitations? 4 tons in the cab or 3 tons on the suspension.
                Do we have machines that fall within these limits? No.

                And their "Wiesel" is definitely better than ours is nothing
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 22 July 2013 13: 43 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Spade
                  What is our massive helicopter? That's right, Mi-8. What are its limitations? 4 tons in the cab or 3 tons on the suspension.
                  Do we have machines that fall within these limits? No.

                  That is, if we drop behind the enemy lines a car weighing 3 tons with three people on board - will it make a fuss there? change the alignment of the front?
                  By the way, what will she do alone in the enemy rear?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 22 July 2013 14: 04 New
                    0
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    That is, if we drop behind the enemy lines a car weighing 3 tons with three people on board - will it make a fuss there?

                    Yes. Because the LNG and 82mm Trays are not doing very well.

                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    By the way, what will she do alone in the enemy rear?

                    Not alone. She will support the air assault battalion.
                  2. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 22 July 2013 14: 14 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Bad_gr

                    That is, if we throw behind the enemy lines a machine weighing 3 tons

                    Any opponent will take into their hands the 12,7 mm Barret M82 rifle or the B94 Tula and destroy Wiesel with the crew at a distance of 1000 meters.
                    Not to mention even the RPG, PTK.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 22 July 2013 14: 41 New
                      0
                      Quote: cosmos111
                      Any opponent will pick up a 12,7 mm Barrett M82 rifle or Tula B94

                      Expensive. It’s cheaper to throw hats.

                      They have several sniper pairs in each company. Apart from the various flickers like this:
                      1. cosmos111
                        cosmos111 22 July 2013 15: 22 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade

                        Expensive. It’s cheaper to throw hats.

                        Caps, this is to the Chinese laughing
                        Even they did not think of copying Wiesel to copy or the Russian BMD 1.2.3. Coffins on caterpillars are not needed even by the billionth China.
                      2. cdrt
                        cdrt 22 July 2013 18: 23 New
                        +1
                        hmm ... if you don’t know something, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Google - BMD China laughing
                  3. Akim
                    Akim 22 July 2013 16: 05 New
                    +2
                    Quote: cosmos111
                    Any opponent will take into their hands the 12,7 mm Barret M82 rifle or the B94 Tula and destroy Wiesel with the crew at a distance of 1000 meters.


                    Any enemy will take the SVD and destroy the Bobik from a distance of 1000 meters.
            2. za VDV
              za VDV 23 July 2013 20: 58 New
              0
              I will say that the handling is much easier for the BMD-4m than for 1i2. That has become much more convenient to evade missiles. The mechanics save their lives and the crew, everything is in computers)))) I really liked to ride such an apparatus after BMD-2, as I moved to Camry after the Cossack)
        2. Akim
          Akim 22 July 2013 13: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: Bad_gr
          And if we compare our BMD (even the first issues) with Wiesel, the comparison will clearly not be in favor of the latter.

          One advantage of BMD is that it carries troops. Lopatov prav- "cows" you will not stockpile at all, and she will not sit down everywhere. Airborne / air assault units need vehicles with the same weapons as the BMD-2. And we have a gap in this area. They can only rely on the support of army aviation.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 22 July 2013 13: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            “cows” you will not stockpile at all, and she will not sit down everywhere.

            The cruising range of the BMD is 2,5 times greater than that of the Wiesel (500 versus 200 km) - in this space you can find a place where the turntable will sit.
            And by the way, more likely to find a place not blocked by enemy air defense.
            1. Akim
              Akim 22 July 2013 16: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: Bad_gr
              The cruising range of the BMD is 2,5 times greater than that of the Wiesel (500 versus 200 km) - in this space you can find a place where the turntable will sit.

              And from where and where will you drive them? An example is captured by the paratroopers pass with a tunnel (namely, such "point" tasks for the DSB) and they sit "almost naked" waiting for reinforcements of motorized rifles, because they have nothing. Only anti-tank systems and "Trays". Any counterattack will knock them out.
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 22 July 2013 17: 54 New
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                And from where and where will you drive them? An example is captured by the paratroopers pass with a tunnel (namely, such "point" tasks for the DSB) and they sit "almost naked" waiting for reinforcements of motorized rifles, because they have nothing.

                And then Wiesel comes to their aid ...
                Further to tell?
                1. Akim
                  Akim 22 July 2013 18: 03 New
                  0
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  Further to tell?

                  Please continue. Either sitting with a bare backside, or waiting for reinforcements from the infantry, but already carrying a platoon of 30-mm guns and a couple of 120-mm mortars.
            2. cdrt
              cdrt 22 July 2013 18: 42 New
              +1
              And by the way, more likely to find a place not blocked by enemy air defense.


              And how much is the combat radius of the Mi-26? And what does the range of BMD have to do with the range of helicopters?

              When the BMD was created, it looked like they were trying something like an armored cavalry (it’s only landing) for raids on the enemy’s operational and strategic rear areas (pontoon parks being dropped from the same opera).
              And for tactical landings, where they land up to the brigade and in tactical depth, for a short time (it was because of this that the requirements for Wiesel were on a small reserve).
              Again - there is a type of database (quite real by the way), there is a technique, there is a concept of use (a carrier of heavy weapons in general infantry: a 120mm mortar, a heavy ATGM, air defense system, air defense radar, a medical vehicle, a military gear gun, etc.) .
              But the concept of our BMD - God be with him, it’s not the holivar wink
              The thing is different, BMD as a concept is optimized for operational parachute landing. In no way optimized for tactical helicopter.
              That's all. Therefore, the Mi-26 is generally redundant for the DShV. For ground movement there is a SV technique, for tactical landings BMD-4M is excessive in weight. Everything is as if.
          2. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 23 July 2013 10: 11 New
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            ... "cows" will not be enough for everyone, and she will not sit down everywhere.

            By the way, I took this phrase as a fact, but I think that I was wrong.
            Where the CH-53 with the Wizels lands, the Mi-26 with its cargo will also sit there.
            I see no reason why he cannot do this.
            1. Akim
              Akim 23 July 2013 10: 23 New
              0
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Where the CH-53 with the Wizels lands, the Mi-26 with its cargo can also land there.

              The 53rd Sikorsky is almost 1,5 times smaller than the Mi-26. And in the second, the area swept by the rotor is almost 2,5 times larger. Mi-26 does not replace Mi-6, but supplements. (In Russia, they seem to have remained).
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 23 July 2013 11: 16 New
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                The 53rd Sikorsky is almost 1,5 times smaller than the Mi-26. And in the second, the area swept by the rotor is almost 2,5 times larger.

                Yes, the propeller blade of the Mi-26 is one third longer, but it is unlikely that there will be clearings in the forest (I’m not talking about open areas) taking into account this difference. And for that and for another helicopter, you need the distance from the trees to the helicopter, against which 10 meters is no longer significant.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 23 July 2013 11: 26 New
                  0
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  . And for that and for another helicopter, you need the distance from the trees to the helicopter, against which 10 meters is no longer significant.

                  God bless him with that forest. BMP-2, even on a mountain pass stump transported on the suspension. We need a similar BBC.
                  1. ProkletyiPirat
                    ProkletyiPirat 8 December 2017 07: 23 New
                    0
                    that is, it carries in the womb, but does not drag it on the suspension? fool
        3. cdrt
          cdrt 22 July 2013 18: 03 New
          +2
          And if we compare our BMD (even the first issues) with Wiesel, the comparison will clearly not be in favor of the latter

          And if you compare with the BMP-3 or T-90, then Wiesel - not even armored vehicles wink

          But in fact, we don’t have any equipment that can be transported by a mass helicopter.

          All that is - BMD-XX. And in fact, in one flight they can transport 30 pieces, something about 3 companies to BMD. Because Mi-26 in different districts - it turns out about a company in 3 districts. On the 4th district - nothing.
          In this sense, Wiesel, which can be pulled on the suspension of the same Mi-8, allows you to transfer most of the heavy weapons (heavy ATGMs, 120mm mortars, transfer to a self-propelled base).
          In general, the machine fits perfectly into the niche.
          And ... I don’t know who rides what, but Porsche cars have always been the standard of reliability and quality for the car :-)
          I don’t think that it was poorly constructed here. Still, the school is what.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 8 December 2017 07: 25 New
            0
            All that you said can be placed on wheel racks or UAZs, i.e. it’s unnecessary to create a separate caterpillar stub
      2. old man54
        old man54 22 July 2013 20: 29 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        And how many of them do we have? 30 with copecks. If you gather everyone, can they transport one battalion to BMD-2?

        so it may not be hysteria necessary that we need such a shitty technique. such as their "Wiesel", and progressively revive the transport-combat rotorcraft, and, guys from artillery ?? bully And then it turns out why do we need BMD-2, if we have few 26s in the army. It’s not funny for yourself?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 22 July 2013 20: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: old man54
          and progressively revive the transport-combat rotorcraft

          Money chickens do not peck?
      3. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 8 December 2017 07: 17 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Cool. And how many of them do we have? 30 with a penny. If everyone is gathered, can they transport one battalion to the BMD-2?

        According to Wikipedia, 41pcs + horseradish knows how many pcs + 10pcs and another + 50pcs per citizen.
  4. Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 22 July 2013 15: 04 New
    +2
    And what, the pan-cricket?
    KakBE I do not quite understand, why do you compare BeHU with this motorcycle stroller, in the context of helicopter transportation?
    So the 76th Ilya is more voluminous and, let’s say, "podoktrineste".
    1. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 8 December 2017 07: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Evgeny_Lev
      So the 76th Ilya is more voluminous and, let’s say, "podoktrineste".

      They cannot use the terrain hi
  5. Per se.
    Per se. 22 July 2013 17: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Akim
    Can someone enlighten what we have to answer? Although the answer is obvious.
    Yes, dear Akim, the answer is obvious, the Germans took Wizel into service in June of the 1987 of the year, and our 3,35 toned ACS-57 commensurate with it began to enter the troops in the 1950 of the year. This is a passed stage, once again showing how much stronger and far our airborne forces have gone. Pictured is ASU-57 in Czechoslovakia, 1968 year.
    1. Akim
      Akim 22 July 2013 18: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Per se.
      and our 3,35-ton ASU-57 commensurate with it began to enter the troops in 1950.

      Nothing like this. ACS went to the battery. Indeed, for large-scale landing, its combat effectiveness is extremely small. But this is for the Airborne Regiment. And in the USSR in the 80s, each motorized rifle division had its own special-purpose ballistic regiment, and he theoretically seized targets and objects and held them until the main troops arrived. And there was nothing to keep.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 22 July 2013 19: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        Nothing like this. ACS went to the battery.
        So, that was when? In those days, our “friends” didn’t have anything like that at all, and in 1970 the BMD-1 already went on. Yes, for the Germans, “Wiesel” is an achievement and good, so what, regret now that Serdyukov did not purchase these ingenious devices, the spread of the BMD-4M?
        1. Akim
          Akim 22 July 2013 19: 29 New
          0
          Quote: Per se.
          . Yes, for the Germans, “Wiesel” is an achievement and good, so now, regret that Serdyukov did not purchase these ingenious devices,

          Okay. Let's go from the other side. In Russia there are airmobile / LH brigades? Your opinion, what to equip them with? (unless of course you understand the difference between the DS and the parachute brigades).
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 22 July 2013 20: 56 New
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            Your opinion, what to equip them with? (unless of course you understand the difference between the DS and the parachute brigades).
            Of course, I understand the difference. If you go only from a convenient side, then you can slide into incorrect comparisons. You have posted the photo above where the Wiesel fleas are leaving the womb of the CH-53G transport helicopter, in our case, the weight category will be MI-26, which will perfectly transfer the more powerful BMD-4M. If you are hinting at the MI-8 class, then this is a scam; in the Bundeswehr, helicopters of the Wiesel class are not transported. If MI-26 will also be part of our air assault brigades, what is the problem? And, dear Akim, you must admit that the Wiesel cannot be better than our BMD and machines based on them, such as the Nona and the Octopus, and the Germans did not increase the size and weight of the Wiesel-2 from good ones.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 22 July 2013 21: 05 New
              0
              Quote: Per se.
              You posted the photo above, where the Wiesel fleas leave the womb of the CH-53G transport helicopter, in our case, the weight category will be MI-26, which will perfectly transfer the more powerful BMD-4M.

              How many Mi-26 do we have? thirty? And the Germans have CH-30 53 pieces

              Quote: Per se.
              If you are hinting at the MI-8 class, then this is a scam; in the Bundeswehr, helicopters of the Wiesel class are not transported.

              They do not have helicopters of this class.


              Quote: Per se.
              If MI-26 will also be part of our air assault brigades, what is the problem?

              In the money. 1 Mi-26 is about 60 "Wiseels 1"
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 22 July 2013 21: 46 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                In the money. 1 Mi-26 is about 60 "Wiseels 1"

                If the elite thieves, and their smaller shushera, will be in prison, money will be found. Finally, how much does the 173 CH-53 cost? If the Wizel value is made a unit of the military budget, then we will no doubt achieve “achievements” by measuring in such “parrots”.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 22 July 2013 21: 58 New
                  0
                  Quote: Per se.
                  Per se.

                  Interestingly, it’s more expensive and harder. Will airlift 15 Mi-26 battalion on BMD-2 or 18 Sikorsky will throw 36 fleas?
                  1. Per se.
                    Per se. 22 July 2013 22: 10 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Akim
                    Interestingly, more expensive
                    In our case, I would rather be with the men on the 15 Mi-26, and with the BMD-4M, than with those on the 18 Sikorsky and Wiesel. For yourself, I think you decide for yourself. If you think only about cheapness, you need to walk in bast shoes with a horn, rather than build rockets.
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 22 July 2013 22: 23 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Per se.
                      In our case, I would rather be with men on 15 Mi-26, and with BMD-4M,

                      So you will have 15 firing points, and the enemy 36. “Panther” was better than the T-34 but they fell in quantity. And now, if we take into account the Germans ’Europike on every third car, the BMD-4 has no enviable chances. In general, we are far removed from the topic. The conversation was that in addition to BMD, we need equipment of this class.
                    2. Per se.
                      Per se. 22 July 2013 22: 30 New
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      in addition to BMD, we need equipment of this class.

                      Perhaps, on a chassis like ASU-57, they will create a mobile mortar or grenade launcher system. In any case, what is good for success in battle is good.
                    3. Akim
                      Akim 22 July 2013 22: 45 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Per se.
                      Perhaps, on a chassis like ASU-57, they will create a mobile mortar or grenade launcher complex.

                      Mauger and on it, maybe on something wheeled. But we need to strengthen our air mobilists and make them airborne. In Ukraine, the same garbage. They have nothing except for the 469th. Armored personnel carriers and KAMAZ vehicles do not count.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 22 July 2013 22: 18 New
              0
              Do you have any idea what kind of money we are talking about? The USSR could not even afford such a thing.
  • smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 22 July 2013 14: 49 New
    +2
    I absolutely agree with Akim, "Wiesel" is a good machine for air assault units landing from helicopters to the rear of the enemy, it seems to me that the tank battalions in the Soviet pre-war airborne forces armed with amphibious tanks T-37, T-38, T -40 (not their fault that they were used for other purposes, just like that the card went down). Moreover, a whole family already exists at its base: a vehicle with anti-aircraft missile systems, anti-aircraft with anti-aircraft missiles, a self-propelled mortar, and an artillery radar. And what we have in the DShBr, the maximum is the Tigers, as well as the GAZ-66 or UAZ carrying mortars and anti-tank systems, SPG-9M. The Mi-26 carrying the BMD is too heavy and vulnerable, and it can’t sit down everywhere. But the German MN-53 calmly carries two Wiesels inside, capable of providing fire or anti-tank support to the helicopter landing. Yours faithfully! hi
  • Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 22 July 2013 14: 56 New
    0
    Legitimate PTR target fellow
  • Srgsoap
    Srgsoap 22 July 2013 15: 24 New
    +5
    Here is another option))))))
  • vietnam7
    vietnam7 22 July 2013 15: 47 New
    +4
    With unpretentious village logic, I look at it and pretend to be a good walk-behind tractor; it’s necessary for the Germans to snoop!
  • vomag
    vomag 22 July 2013 16: 06 New
    +2
    yeah it’s just scary ... I don’t understand what the argument is about ??? why are you trying to attach a disabled woman from the 70s (wizel) to modern methods of warfare (koment comrade kuznetsova et finally pearl about what dshb needs) I remember the storm of May Day there I’ll clean up karamahs and think that's where to put the visel there ??? in the history there was a current 1 landing operation from helicopters in the amount of about 5 thousand during a desert storm (as you understand, there were no air defense at all) so basically there were no visits and other crap and off-road vehicles with armament weakened on them mi! and if you suddenly comrades think that to carry out an operation on helicopters to throw in the rear of the air assault units with a bunch of equipment (a power reserve of 200 km I am not telling the magician) this is something quite simple then you are mistaken !!!
    1. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 22 July 2013 16: 56 New
      +2
      First of all, dear vomag, the Soviet Army did not carry out ANY parachute landing after the Great Patriotic War, and all its airborne operations (Prague-1968, Kabul-1979) were carried out by landing method, which did not prevent the creation of a line of airborne vehicles (ASU-57, ASU-85, BMD and vehicles based on it: BTR-D, 2S9, BREM-D, 1V119; 2S25 "Sprut-S) and develop parachute systems for its landing, including with the crew (" Centaur "." Reactavr "). And after the war, the airborne troops themselves did not throw parachutes behind enemy lines, but were used mainly as elite infantry, but this in no way cancels their main purpose.
      Secondly, first look at the organizational structure of the Soviet air assault brigades, for example, http://ryadovoy.ru/militarizm/orgstruktures/DSHV_soviet/odshbr_1t/org_dshv_odshb
      r_2.htm, and you will see the same BMD-1, BTR-D, 2C9 Nona-S, D-30, Arrow-10, and many other interesting cars there.
      Thirdly, with regard to Desert Storm, the first American tank to be deployed on the theater was the M-551 Sheridan, an aluminum box with a poorly functioning 152 mm cannon launcher, which had no chance of colliding with Iraqi T-72 and T-62, but nevertheless having one indisputable advantage, it could be easily flown through the air, to any part of the globe.
      And fourthly, you yourself, as you chose to act more confidently during an airmobile operation, knowing that you do not have any armored vehicles or still knowing that fire and anti-tank support will still be provided to your unit by such tins as "Wiesel." Yours faithfully! hi
      1. vomag
        vomag 22 July 2013 18: 36 New
        +2
        I don’t understand something !!! I just got a noise about what kind of vizels are best how to throw 1000 from helicopters (and how they need dshb) and ours say they interrupt current with 30 helicopters and that’s all! yeah and helicopters you don’t need armored personnel carriers and octopus, and so we drop off quickly and parachute, and most importantly 100mi and dshb in the heat of the heat immediately into battle! Sheridan may have thrown the first one, but the invasion was led by the tank division on the Abrams !!
        1. smiths xnumx
          smiths xnumx 22 July 2013 22: 00 New
          +1
          Well, for some reason, a cleaver (tank division) is good, but for something a sword (air assault brigade. Consider the largest airborne forces in the world:
          The same Americans created the M-24 Chaffee for the Airborne Forces, then the M-41 Walker Bulldog, when they realized that the M-551 Sheridan tanks were too heavy, when it was out of date, or rather realized that its 152-mm cannon-launcher the installation was unsuitable for anything, they began to create an XM-8 with an automatic loader to replace it. Since the program failed, the M-551 Sheridan was in service until the mid-90s, until it was replaced by various modifications of the Stryker and this is not counting the numerous armored "Hammers" with ATGMs, AGS and heavy machine guns. Light 155 mm howitzers M-777 and MLRS M142 HIMARS were created.
          The British for the Airborne Forces and reconnaissance and airborne units first created a light tank "Scorpion" with a 76-mm gun, then replaced it with a wheeled BRM "Fox" with a 30-mm gun, and now they use "Saber", a hybrid tracked chassis for fire support “Scorpion” and the tower “Fox”, and this is not counting the armed and transport “Land Rovers” and 105-mm howitzers L-119.
          The French, realizing that their "wheeled tank" AMX-10RS with a 105-mm cannon, too heavy can not be transported by air with the S-130 Hercules transport aircraft, were forced to adopt the ERK export vehicle into their armament and parachute units of the Foreign Legion -90 "Sazhe" with a 90-mm gun, lighter in weight. Plus lightweight VBL armored vehicle used as a carrier of heavy infantry weapons.
          The Chinese created their BMD-ZBD03, with Bahcha-U, plus numerous Chinese copies of the Hammers, with 107 mm MLRS, Chinese copies of Cornflower and ZU-23, plus Chinese copies of D-30 (type 85), 107 -mm MLRS type-74, self-propelled in a light truck and towed type 63.
          We have already examined the Germans with their Wiesel.
          That is, all of the above countries have in their arsenal specialized armament models for the airborne forces intended for transfer by transport aircraft and helicopters.
          Quote: vomag
          ) I remember the storm of May Day there to clean up karamahs and I think that's where to put the visel there ???

          But for such operations, it’s just good heavy infantry weapons (MBT, SG, large-caliber MLRS, TOS, etc.), and this was perfectly understood by the Soviet generals in Afghanistan, when in 1985 they removed all the BMD, Nona, BTR- D, which perfectly completed the task of capturing Kabul and Bagram in 1979, replacing them with simple BMP-2s and BTR-70 / 80s, and the equipment was more secure and cheaper. Yours faithfully! hi
      2. Per se.
        Per se. 22 July 2013 22: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: smiths xnumx
        First of all, dear vomag, the Soviet Army did not carry out ANY parachute landing after the Great Patriotic War, and all its airborne operations (Prague-1968 year, Kabul-1979 year) were carried out by landing method
        Dear Roman, The Soviet Army has never used nuclear weapons, but missiles stood and are standing in the mines. As for parachuting, the US Army, during the war in Iraq, parachuted (which was the only possible one in that situation), the 173 paratrooper brigade, during the Northern Barrier operation (capture and hold of the Bashur airfield before the arrival of 1- th infantry division). There is no need for extremes when and what kind of landing method may be required by the situation, and the enemy should always know that we have not only nuclear charges, but also all landing methods in case of emergency troop transfer.
        1. smiths xnumx
          smiths xnumx 22 July 2013 23: 01 New
          +2
          Dear Sergey, did I dispute somewhere, the fact that if such a need arose, the secular airborne airborne forces would land anywhere in the world, by any means, parachute or landing, and whether they would fulfill any tasks. Moreover, we had experience of conducting such operations: for example, the operation "Rhodope" transfer of 106 guards. VDD in 1967 to Bulgaria; in February 1979 during the Vietnam-China War 106 guards. The VDD was transported to the Chita region by 5,5 thousand km with military transport aircraft in one flight in just two days, followed by landing of a tactical group in Mongolia, near the border with China, forcing the Chinese to withdraw troops from Vietnam. Permanent landing to two airborne regiments during major exercises ("Shield-81", "" Shield-82, etc.). Respectfully! hi
          1. vomag
            vomag 22 July 2013 23: 59 New
            0
            Well, gentlemen, comrades, now let’s summarize what was said above, I was not convinced by the arguments about the need for such a technique (visel) in the staff structure (dshb) in view of the frankly weak performance characteristics. or the enemy attacked the counter (in short, the guys need to blast quickly before being surrounded), of course, they don’t wait in a straight line, they have to loop back to the rear to keep in touch where you can get out or where they will at least fire a fire .... but we only have 200 km where hemorrhoids start to take Dimensions Everest !!! just don’t need to say that you put a couple of fuel trucks in a helicopter or every soldier was handed a canister at that it’s no longer funny ..
            1. Mooh
              Mooh 30 October 2013 17: 46 New
              0
              There is a low-consumption car diesel engine and yes, a couple of cans is a serious increase in the power reserve.
  • MAG
    MAG 22 July 2013 16: 21 New
    0
    Something military review of recent times spreads old articles. The article was already 1.5-2 years ago and in the same way everyone argued))
  • _KM_
    _KM_ 22 July 2013 16: 34 New
    +1
    Smart + Wiesel = Photoshop?
  • duke
    duke 22 July 2013 18: 51 New
    +2
    funny pepelats, our BMD will be more practical ...
  • castle
    castle 23 July 2013 01: 07 New
    +1
    But there was still such a flea Universal Carrier or, if you like, Bren Carrier (why Bren - you can find it yourself), it was operated from 1936 to 1962. It seems to be weak and weak, but they released about 113 pieces! Because they were needed and did their job. But the Germans, too, are not fools and don’t throw money down the drain, and if they do Wiesel, they know why and why.
  • Kukota
    Kukota 23 July 2013 09: 25 New
    +2
    Something "Video in the subject" is completely off topic.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 23 July 2013 12: 57 New
      0
      The video resembled footage from the military chronicle, where the Germans ride motorcycles with wheelchairs.
  • za VDV
    za VDV 23 July 2013 20: 51 New
    0
    BMD1 More practical than Wiesel, although it was possible to carry assault forces in it and you won’t put a lot of people into Wiesel)))) Well, you know that they wear round clothes in the Army and roll square ones))) We had a company of 183 people marked ))) In response to this - "It's better to go bad than to go well"))).

    It's like in a joke: The regiment commander in the morning at the building says to the soldiers:
    -Comrade soldiers! Who will go to the potatoes - a step out of order!
    One soldier comes out, and he tells him:
    - Well done soldier, and the rest will go on foot!
    1. Mooh
      Mooh 30 October 2013 17: 50 New
      0
      In this case, it’s better to go bad than to drag well. Mortars with recoilless bombs and birds are difficult to carry, and a goose, even such, at times passable UAZ.
      1. Mooh
        Mooh 31 October 2013 03: 49 New
        0
        Why minus that? Do you like to wear mortars? Or patriotically consider UAZ passable of any imported armored vehicles?
        1. BlackCat
          BlackCat 31 October 2013 18: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: MooH
          Why minus that? Do you like to wear mortars? Or patriotically consider UAZ passable of any imported armored vehicles?

          Because the comment is not the topic.
          It was said
          Quote: za VDV
          BMD1 More practical than Wiesel, while it was possible to carry troops in it ....

          Your comment
          Quote: MooH
          In this case, it’s better to go bad than to drag well ....
          .... at times passable UAZ.

          The question is, what side is the foot carrying of mortars and UAZs when it comes to the BMD-1?
  • Urus121
    Urus121 8 May 2016 21: 14 New
    0
    Hello everybody. My question is this. Is it possible to put DZ on vizel 2? And the landing for 5 people + KPVT with AGS 30?
  • Radomir
    Radomir 10 August 2019 14: 12 New
    0
    Thanks for the detailed and informative article !!! Now in 2019 there are almost no such works on the site ... Yes, and comments somehow provide more information for reflection. And then cheers patriots, la la poplar .... generally not about anything ...