The shadow economy in the USSR: how it all began

The question of the reasons for the collapse and destruction of the USSR is far from idle. It does not lose its relevance today, after 22, after the death of the Soviet Union occurred. Why? Because some based on this event conclude that, they say, the capitalist model of the economy is more competitive, more efficient and has no alternatives. American political scientist Francis Fukuyama after the collapse of the USSR even hurried to declare that the “End stories»: Humanity has reached the highest and last stage of its development in the form of universal, global capitalism.

The relevance of studying the shadow economy of the USSR

According to this kind of political scientists, sociologists and economists, the discussion of the socialist model of the economy does not deserve attention. It is better to concentrate all forces on improving the capitalist model of the economy, that is, a model that aims all members of society towards enrichment, and the means of enrichment (profit) is the exploitation of one person by another. True, this results in such “natural” attributes of the capitalist model as social and property inequality, competition, cyclical crises, bankruptcies, unemployment, and the like. All the proposed improvements are aimed only at mitigating the anti-human effects of capitalism, which is reminiscent of utopian attempts to limit the appetites of the wolf, devouring sheep.

We will proceed from the fact that the key socio-economic features of the socialist model are welfare for all members of society (goal), public ownership of the means of production (main means), earning income exclusively from work, the planned nature of the economy, centralization of economic management, command the position of the state in the economy, public consumption funds, the limited nature of commodity-money relations, and so on.

This refers to the welfare not only in the form of products and services that provide vital (biological) human needs. This should also include public safety and defense, education, culture, working and rest conditions. Of course, socialism is not only economy and social relations. It also implies a certain type of political power, ideology, a high level of spiritual and moral development of society, and more. High spiritual and moral needs should assume the presence of higher goals in relation to socio-economic goals. But we will focus now on the socio-economic aspect of the socialist model.

So, the erosion of the socialist model began long before the tragic events of December 1991, when the shameful agreement on the division of the USSR in the Belovezhskaya Pushcha was signed. This was already the final act of political order. This is not only the date of death of the USSR, but also the date of complete legalization of the new socio-economic model, which is called "capitalism". However, implicitly capitalism matured in the depths of Soviet society for about three decades. The de facto Soviet economy has long acquired the characteristics of a multi-structured one. It combined socialist and capitalist ways. However, some foreign researchers and politicians stated that de facto in the USSR there was a complete restoration of capitalism back in the 1960-1970-s. The restoration of capitalism was linked to the emergence and development in the depths of the USSR of the so-called shadow or “second” economy. In particular, as early as the beginning of 1960, a member of the German Communist Party, Willy Dikhut, began publishing his articles, in which he stated that, with the coming to power in our country, N.S. Khrushchev happened (not started, but it happened!) The restoration of capitalism in the USSR.

The shadow economy functioned on principles different from the socialist ones. One way or another, it was connected with corruption, embezzlement of state property, obtaining unearned income, violation of laws (or using “holes” in the legislation). At the same time, the shadow economy should not be confused with the “unofficial” economy, which did not contradict the laws and principles of the socialist system, but only supplemented the “official” economy. First of all, this is individual labor activity - for example, the work of a collective farmer in a personal plot or a citizen in his summer cottage. And in the best of times (under Stalin), the so-called industrial cooperation, which was engaged in the production of consumer goods and services, was widely developed.

In the USSR, state and party authorities preferred to ignore the phenomenon of the shadow economy. No, of course, law enforcement agencies opened and suppressed various operations in the shadow economy. But the leaders of the USSR, commenting on this kind of history, got off with phrases like “exceptions to the rule”, “isolated flaws”, “flaws”, “mistakes” and the like. For example, at the beginning of the 1960s, the then First Deputy Council of Ministers of the USSR, Anastas Mikoyan, defined the black market in the USSR as “a handful of some dirty foam that floated to the surface of our society”.

The shadow economy of the USSR: some estimates

No serious studies of the shadow (“second”) economy in the USSR have been conducted until the end of the 1980s. Abroad, such studies have appeared before. First of all, mention should be made of the work of the American sociologist Gregory Grossman (University of California), which was called “Destructive independence. The historical role of genuine trends in Soviet society. " It became widely known after it was published in 1988 in the collection “The Light at the End of the Tunnel” (University of Berkeley, edited by Stephen F. Cohen). However, Grossman's first article on this topic appeared in the year 1977 and was called “The Second Economy” of the USSR ”(Problems of Communism, September-October 1977).

You can also mention the book of Soviet lawyer Konstantin Simis, who emigrated to the US, “Corruption in the USSR - the secret world of underground Soviet capitalism”, published in 1982 year. The author in 1970-e years in close contact with some shadow businesses, a lawyer whom he spoke at the trials. However, K. Simis does not provide quantitative estimates of the shadow (“second”) economy.

Later the works of American sociologists and economists of Russian origin, Vladimir Treml and Mikhail Alekseev, appeared. Since 1985, Gregory Grossman and Vladimir Treml have been publishing periodicals on the “second” economy of the USSR. Issues continued until 1993, with a total of 51 research published with 26 authors. Many studies consisted of sociological surveys of families of immigrants from the USSR (total 1061 family). For research, surveys of emigrants from other socialist countries, official statistics of the USSR, publications in the media and scientific journals of the Soviet Union were also used. Despite the differences in the number of quantitative estimates of individual authors, these discrepancies were not fundamental. Differences arose from the fact that some authors considered the "informal economy", others - the shadow economy; however, their definitions of both economies could not be the same.

We present some results of these studies.

1. In 1979, the illegal production of wine, beer and other alcoholic beverages, as well as the speculative resale of alcoholic beverages produced in the “first economy”, provided revenues equal to 2,2% of GNP (gross national product).

2. In the late 1970s, the shadow gasoline market flourished in the USSR. From 33 to 65% of petrol purchases in urban areas of the country, individual car owners accounted for gasoline sold by drivers of state-owned enterprises and organizations (gasoline was sold at a price lower than the state).

3. In Soviet hairdressing, "left" income exceeded the amount that customers paid through cash. This is just one example of the fact that some state-owned enterprises belonged de facto to the “second” economy.

4. In 1974, the share of work on private and household plots accounted for almost a third of all working time in agriculture. And this was almost 10% of the total working time in the economy of the USSR.

5. In 1970-ies, about a quarter of agricultural production was produced in private plots, much of it went to collective farm markets.

6. At the end of the 1970s, about 30% of all incomes of the urban population were derived from various types of private activities, both legal and illegal.

7. By the end of the 1970s, the proportion of people employed in the “second economy” reached 10-12% of the total labor force in the USSR.

At the end of the 1980s, a number of works appeared on the shadow and “second” economies in the USSR. First of all, these are the publications of the Soviet economist Tatiana Koragina and the director of the Research Institute of Gosplan Valery Rutheiser. Here are the data from the work of T. Koryagina "The Shadow Economy of the USSR". The annual value of illegally produced goods and services at the beginning of 1960-s was approximately 5 billion rubles, and at the end of 1980-s reached 90 billion rubles. At current prices, the GNP of the USSR was (in billions of rubles): in the 1960 year - 195; in the 1990 year - 701. Thus, the USSR economy over the thirty years has grown 3,6 times, and the shadow economy - 14 times. If in 1960, the shadow economy in relation to the official GNP was 3,4%, then by 1988, this figure increased to 20%. True, in 1990, it was equal to 12,5%. Such a recession was caused by a change in Soviet legislation, which transferred a number of economic activities that were previously considered illegal to legal status.

According to T. Koryagina, the number of people employed in the shadow economy at the beginning of 1960 was 6 million people, and in 1974 the number increased to 17-20 million people (6-7% of the country's population). In the 1989 year of such shadow businesses, there were already 30 million people, or 12% of the population of the USSR.

Threats and consequences of the development of the shadow economy in the USSR

Both American and Soviet researchers pay attention to some features of the shadow economy and its influence on the general situation in the USSR.

1. The shadow economy as a noticeable phenomenon of Soviet life arose at the end of the 1950's - the beginning of the 1960's. All researchers unequivocally attribute this to the coming to power in the country of N.S. Khrushchev, who beside his ill-considered decisions released a genie from the shadow economy. It is noteworthy that even those authors who have a rather negative attitude towards Stalin are forced to admit that there was almost no shadow or underground economy during the period in which Stalin was in power. But it was legal small-scale production - for example, industrial artels in cities. Khrushchev destroyed such small-scale production, shadows came in his place.

2. The shadow economy was more developed not in the central regions of the USSR, but on the periphery of the country. So, G. Grossman estimated that at the end of 1970-s the share of income from the “second” economy was about 30% of all incomes of the urban population in the USSR. At the same time, in the RSFSR it was close to the national average, while in the region of Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine, the average value was about 40%, in the South Caucasus and Central Asia - almost 50%. In Armenia, among ethnic Armenians, the indicator reached 65%. The hypertrophied development of the “second” economy in a number of union republics created the illusion that these regions are “self-sufficient”. They say that they have a higher standard of living than Russia, and they may well exist and develop outside the USSR. All this created fertile ground for separatist movements in the national republics.

3. The shadow economy existed at the expense of state resources, a significant part of it could function normally under the condition of the theft of material resources of state enterprises and organizations. Thus, the illusion was created that the shadow economy compensated for the shortcomings of the “white” economy. There was simply a “redistribution” of resources from the state (and collective farm) sector of the economy to the shadow sector.

4. The shadow economy spawned corruption. The owners of the shadow structures were engaged in bribing the leaders and functionaries of state enterprises and organizations. For what purpose? So that at least they do not interfere with the shadow business. And as a maximum - to become partners in such a business, assisting in the supply of raw materials, goods, vehicles, and the like. This is the first microeconomic level of corruption. This is followed by a second, regional level, which is associated with the bribery of law enforcement agencies and in general of local government bodies. A system of regional "protection" of the shadow business is being created. Finally, corruption is reaching a third, nationwide level. The shadow businesses start lobbying their economic interests in the ministries and departments. The economy only formally continues to develop as a “planned” one. Administrative economic decisions at the national level are beginning to be made under the influence of shadow businesses.

5. The owners of the shadow business accumulate such huge capital that allows them to engage in lobbying political power in the country. The shadow businesses are getting close within the framework of even the formal socialist mode of production. They begin to prepare a complete restoration of capitalism. It happened during the period in which M. Gorbachev was in power under the guise of the false slogans of perestroika. This restructuring was ultimately initiated not by M. Gorbachev or A. Yakovlev. It was organized by shadow capital, on orders of which the “reformers” from the CPSU acted.

Comments

[Spartanez300]

That ordinary people suffered because of this shadow economy, but no, of course he lived and enjoyed life. And he suffered after the collapse of the USSR, which many people of the former union regret.

[Mystery12345]

everyone is looking for the reasons for the collapse ... and the names are known.

[cost]

corruption in the USSR arose due to the merger of power and shadow business

[your1970]

Quote: Rich

corruption in the USSR arose due to the merger of power and shadow business

-
From the OGPU reports:
“In the village of Grimm, a group of kulaks (19 people) systematically engaged in organized theft of bread. Over 6 thousand poods were plundered. Bread was sold ... at speculative prices ... "
“... Massive theft of bread engulfed many villages. In the villages of Vyazovka and B. Moretz, theft was carried out in whole groups, the stolen bread was sold by them or sheltered. 150 poods were found in some of the embezzlers. of bread. Among the participants in the theft are relatives of dispossessed and former. gendarme…"
“About 1,5 thousand poods were stolen in the village of Dvoenka. Bread was taken away by collective farmers and individual farmers. A group of prosperous (9 people) organized and systematically plundered collective farm bread ... "
“In the village of Fedorovka, a pit of 1 thousand pounds was found, in the village of Doktorovka - 2 pits of 2,4 thousand pounds, in the village of Lyubavino - 1 pit of 493 pounds, the initiators of sheltering bread were fists and prosperous ( 13 people). ”
“In the Bogodukhov district, a group of 14 people was liquidated. (6 kulaks, 6 middle peasants and 2 poor people), which, with the assistance of the pom. the foreman, breeder and foreman plundered over 300 poods from the state farm of the beetroot trust. of bread. During the search, a ton of stolen bread was discovered. ”
and then more fun
But the most interesting is yet to come. It turns out that the GPU of Ukraine has revealed many secret mills, whose work was generally not accountable to anyone.
“... In most regions, a number of mills that are not part of the Selkhozmukomolye system were arbitrarily put into operation, as follows:
- In the Odessa region. revealed 264 mills producing secret grinding.
- According to one D / Petrovsky region. 29 secret mills were identified and 346 mills were approved for use without the permission of the Procurement Committee.
- In the Vinnytsia region 38 secret mills were discovered and, moreover, 43 mills were put into operation without the permission of the Procurement Committee.
- In the Kharkov region. 13 mills that produced secret grinding of grain were identified and, in addition, 18 mills were put into operation without the permission of the Procurement Committee.
This circumstance primarily affected to a large extent the fulfillment of planned targets for merchandise, since not a single one of the secret mills or the mills put into operation without the permission of the Procurement Committee was handed over to merchuk. ”
So, only in these areas, the authorities of the GPU only 20 days detected more 750 secret and unaccounted mills.
FROM WHERE grain for processing on SECRET mills ??? Where did the flour go then, where did they bake the bread and whose pocket got the loot from its sale ???
But this is not the 70s - it is 30s and decree 7-8 already worked...
And the people - "Oh, under Stalin there was no corruption !! Oh, there were no thieves-thieves !! Oh, they shot right away !!" ...
Yeah, schaz - read the "Golden Calf" (a little early (for 5 years) - but the same people stayed and stole as well)

[Reptiloid]

I didn’t know anything about artels under Stalin. It turns out like cooperatives and they occupied their niche. Khrushchev eliminated them.

[moskowit]

... Somehow I did not know about artels under Stalin ....

Somehow I was looking for the address of the enterprise where my Mother worked in 1939 in Moscow. And he went to the telephone and address directory "All Moscow" 1936 of the year. A lot of cooperation enterprises are represented there. In many areas of economic activity.
By the way, my grandfather, a good tailor, before retiring in 1958, did not work a day in a state-owned enterprise. All the time individually or in collaboration with a group of the same experts ....

[Reptiloid]

About enameled dishes, the grandmother said that they were brought to the village and everyone was waiting. Apparently, the same artels. And when they moved to the city, there was no way to buy this dishes. And then the time for corn came. PRESENT wrecking.

[Basil50]

Before my eyes, under Khrushchev, they destroyed the artel for the production of enameled dishes and Metizov and their subsidiary farming with the processing of agricultural products.
In the city, the workshops were transferred to * state administration * without share contributions. In the * sub-farm * they first closed the processing of milk for butter and cheese, then closed the workshops for preserving the jam from berries and fruits, then closed the forge and began cutting down orchards and vineyards. At the same time, a cowshed, stable, house was destroyed, up to the destruction of buildings. All this happened within two years. Then on the lands * podkhoz *, which was attached to the state farm, only beets were grown. Today these lands are abandoned, there are no gardens or just trees. They even cut down a bush.

[Reptiloid]

Under the pretext of improvement ---- destruction and lies. Already repeatedly.

[EvgNik]

I didn’t know anything about artels under Stalin. It turns out like cooperatives and they occupied their niche. Khrushchev eliminated them.

No, Dima, Khrushchev did not eliminate anything. Under it terry color and clandestine workshops began to appear. Under the guise of import, consumer goods were made.
Taxes are naturally not paid. They were mainly located in the Union republics. This is the shadow business. This is where the shoots of initial capital accumulation come from. And under Stalin there was another cooperation, controlled by the state.

[Reptiloid]

It seems that the restrictions were about plots, sales of agricultural products ....... Livestock?
BUT what exactly ----- huge proportions are occupied by corn. Did something else grow before? I know that villages and gardens, kitchen gardens were compared to the ground, supposedly they built something with corn, but they didn’t build anything, so they abandoned everything and there are still abandoned gardens. My relatives lived, moved and everything in their eyes. Destruction.

[EvgNik]

Corn Khrushchev killed a lot of things, and the cooperative store was near my house, they also sold natural honey, and a lot of them, they liquidated it during perestroika. And the article is not about cooperation, but about shadow business hidden from the state.

[Reptiloid]

Here, with you, Eugene, inconsistencies in time and territory can occur. And by name. My word co-operative is connected just with the time after 1985. So it was ---- we’ll go to a co-operative or go to a hospital. Since there were all small villages. Well, in Leningrad it was later called in a different way. Although it was cooperative, they said that under socialism it was a diet.

[ism_ek]

Quote: EvgNik

No, Dima, Khrushchev did not eliminate anything. Under it terry color and clandestine workshops began to appear.

Resolution of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of Ministers of the USSR of March 14, 1948:

“As a result of ... merging with the private owners of a number of leaders of trusted cooperative organizations, speculators dealers entered into cooperatives with their industrial equipment and large sums of money, turning the cooperatives of fishing and disabled people into false cooperatives ... Private property was violated in violation of the USSR Constitution implements and means of production in some cooperative organizations. In such false artels, private entrepreneurs hold the positions of heads of enterprises, heads of workshops, head. production agents, which gives them the opportunity to enter into all kinds of transactions with state and cooperative organizations, to buy and sell industrial goods, to plunder socialist property. ”

[MrK]

Quote: Reptiloid

Somehow about artels under Stalin did not know

I recommend A. Kurlyandchik’s book on Proza.ru. "Damned" Soviet power ... There are written about artels in detail.

[bandabas]

So they break up further. Only the last names are different.

[Victor N]

The spontaneous protest against leveling was very strong. Engineers were paid less than hegemons - is that right, given the time to acquire a specialty? The main thing: it sprouted despite opposition - the element, an objective basis. Going on vacation on the "shabbat". Country boom. And provocation by dispensers ?!
The role of the state is the enormous systematic errors of planning, especially in capital construction: there are more machine tools than workers (this is why machine tool construction subsequently bent). Surnames - it is of course ... But there were fundamental contradictions.

[Cartalon]

Again Khrushchov is to blame, there were no other reasons.

[Amurets]

Quote: Cartalon

Again Khrushchov is to blame, there were no other reasons

Unfortunately yes. I will not take examples of "decaying capitalism" at the Moscow Festival of Youth and Students. It was under Stalin. Irina Ginsburg wrote about this in the first part of her book The Steep Route. Two things that Khrushchev thoughtlessly did in the economy were the abolition of the norm for fulfilling the plan for the product range, on which the heads of enterprises insisted and the introduction of the plan for the shaft. And the second: this is the collapse of the ministries and the introduction of economic councils. This is where the prerequisites for the emergence of a shadow economy appeared.

[Doliva63]

the largest mine under the social economy under Khrushchev is the withdrawal of a part of the population’s income from the State Planning Commission. Only then from here - the shadow economy, etc.

[Nikolay K]

We will proceed from the fact that the key socio-economic features of the socialist model are welfare for all members of society

You can start from anything that black is green and the moon is a bird. Only if the original message is not true, then the whole theory is wrong.
And the message of man today and thousands of years ago is such that his own shirt is closer to the body than the abstract well-being of all members of society. That is why the party-nomenclature elite under the USSR tried to fill their own pockets in the same way as their predecessors did under tsarism and also like the followers under capitalism.
You cannot change a person in ten years, no revolutions will help in this.

[Odysseus]

Quote: Nikolai K

And the promise of man today and thousands of years ago is

It’s just not true, it’s fundamentally wrong. It is literally your assumption that white is black and the moon is a bird.
The very essence of man is precisely that he is changing , without this there was no man himself. The man was just an animal, but he stood out from the animal world, became manwhile leaving the natural world and creating a world of culture.
And people are actively changing to this day, even within the same country and one economic formation. Compare the Germans of the early 20th century with the Germans of the 30s and modern Germans. These are completely different people and completely different peoples.

Quote: Nikolai K

You cannot change a person in ten years, no revolutions will help in this.

Again, it is absolutely wrong. The experience of the Soviet Union (as well as the experience of its collapse) convincingly shows that a person can not only be changed, but also can be changed in the most radical way. For example, the Soviet Man was not only formed, but also proved to be as stable as cultural-historical type that for 30 years of its hard breaking and conscious destruction can not do anything with it.
And the universal sadness of our anti-communists lies precisely in the absolute indestructibility of the “scoops”, which they say literally every day.

[Nikolay K]

Again, it is absolutely wrong. The experience of the Soviet Union (as well as the experience of its collapse) convincingly shows that a person can not only be exchanged, but also can be changed by his most radical

The Soviet Union was not even 10 years old, but 70. And its collapse is a concrete historical confirmation of my position. And all the rest is “if only yes” conversations characteristic of youths. However, not only them. As popular wisdom says: sho male, sho star.

[kalibr]

Interestingly, with my own hands I kept a document from the archives of the Komsomol Central Committee (later it was reflected as a link in my dissertation) that during the 10 five-year plan, the Komsomol Central Committee calculated that in the universities of Central Asia the proportion of students involved in research work (scientific and technical students' creativity supervised by the Komsomol) exceeds 100%. That is, there was more involved in NIRS than it was studied, and this despite the fact that in Russian universities the indicator 10 - 12% was considered good. The document went to the Central Committee of the CPSU and remained without consequences. The answer was: “The East is a delicate matter, we cannot quarrel with them.” So, "in the details" everything began to fall apart. Here unscrupulousness, here "you can’t quarrel" ...

[Alexander Greene]

This is how anti-Soviet jokes are born out of a simple technical error.

[kalibr]

Well no. This was not a mistake. There was a calculation for the republics and universities. And then the summarized data. Still, this was not an article on the site, but a note from the Central Committee of the Komsomol Central Committee of the Central Committee of the CPSU with the stamp "secret", so everything was checked many times.

[Alexander Greene]

And what do you want to say that there were stupid people in the Komsomol Central Committee who did not study interest at school? This is now the students do not know what it is. And at that time you didn’t keep fools of the Central Committee.
And the answer from the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, which you cited "The East is a delicate matter, we must not quarrel with them," also does not fit. What does the East have to do with the certificate in the Central Committee in Moscow? In general - I do not believe it!

[kalibr]

If it was a fiction, then it would be possible to come up with something abruptly, huh? And not about one document, but about a lot, for solidity. Is not it? But no. Only one document. That's just - more than 100%, which cannot be understood in any way. That is, there were postscripts and postscripts very large. But put up with this. And again, well, I'll give you a link to the archive, and so what? Like you, this is pointless. You will neither want to check, nor even if you want to copy you no one will send.

“What does the East have to do with this, if the certificate was compiled by the Central Committee in Moscow? In general, I don’t believe it!” - despite the fact that universities are Central Asian !!!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

“What does the East have to do with this, if the certificate was compiled by the Central Committee in Moscow? In general, I don’t believe it!” - despite the fact that universities are Central Asian !!!

Not logical. Oh, by the way, how many percent was written there? Write at least from memory.

[kalibr]

It will be necessary to find and see. As you yourself understand, it’s a little strange to hold a dissertation on the subject of the history of the CPSU in 1988. Somewhere it is like a memory, of course. And I remember that there are more 100, but how many I do not remember exactly. But the topic seems interesting, it’s good that you paid my attention to this. By the way, after reading your answer, I went to search. And ... he found his daughter’s dissertation. True, it is not based on the history of the CPSU, but there are very interesting materials. About how the party forged on the ground the cadres of lecturers and propagandists, what questions the OK lecturer asked the people - during the perestroika period. And I will find a dissertation. Maybe even it is already digitized, by the way. And there is this link! Now I’ll do it!

[Uncle Murzik]

another bike from Slavik Shpakovsky aka kalibr

[Odysseus]

Quote: Nikolai K

And its collapse is a concrete historical confirmation of my position.

Your position does not correspond to the structure of life as such. I already wrote that if, in your opinion, a person simply could not appear, moreover, life itself, which is a constant movement and change, would simply cease.
The experience of the collapse of the USSR does not at all indicate that "a person cannot be changed," but just changes in the political and ideological attitudes of the Central Committee that took place from the mid-50s to the mid-80s and which became the result of quite specific, but erroneous from the point of view of the interests of the USSR, decisions.

[Heinrich ruppert]

Quote: Odyssey

The experience of the Soviet Union (as well as the experience of its collapse) convincingly shows that a person can not only be changed, but also can be changed in the most radical way.

This is not only a person in the USSR. This is all humanity can be changed, Only the right way to "present the idea"
For example, an experiment with a change of time. All of humanity has changed to live in a different time.

[Odysseus]

Quote: Heinrich Ruppert

This is not only a person in the USSR. This is all humanity can be changed, Only the right way to "present the idea"

That's right. Of course, that any person is subject to change, and he can change in a very different direction.
I have already given an example with the Germans who were changed three times in the most radical way over the course of one century and in one social formation (capitalism).

[Heinrich ruppert]

And I tell you about all of humanity this winter and summer time. The whole planet lived on this.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Odyssey

The very essence of man consists precisely in the fact that he is changing, without it there was no man himself

But evolution is a process that takes hundreds of thousands of years.

Quote: Odyssey

Compare the Germans of the early 20th century with the Germans of the 30s and modern Germans.

You mix different things. Education and instincts laid by nature are two different things. Humanity as a biological species remains the same.

[V.ic]

Quote: Cartalon

Again Khrushchov is to blame, there were no other reasons.

Opposite the house where my parents lived / to the left of 100 m / there was a "dairy", where for a penny of the 1961 sample it was possible to buy several liters of buttermilk. Also by the way "cooperative"// BASSR, Sharansky / Bakalinsky district //.

[Smog]

Antirezny vesch.
Planting and harvesting potatoes in their home garden is also a shadow economy.

4. In 1974, the share of work on private and household plots accounted for almost a third of all working time in agriculture. And this was almost 10% of the total working time in the economy of the USSR.
5. In 1970-ies, about a quarter of agricultural production was produced in private plots, much of it went to collective farm markets.

What is the situation with this now? Is the potato out of the shadows or not?

[V.ic]

Quote: Smog

Is the potato out of the shadows or not?

Plant and find out by crop who will be planted next year!

[Smog]

Quote: V.ic

Quote: Smog

Is the potato out of the shadows or not?

Plant and find out by crop who will be planted next year!

Well, in principle, I plant every year. The truth is not much, for "myself."
It seems they have not planted it yet. What changes are being prepared in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation? Will they plant for potato? If only for the one that grows in the shade, then I’m not afraid, I have a little plot in the sun.

[V.ic]

Quote: Smog

What changes are being prepared in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation? Will they plant for potato?

I’m not a prosecutor, but I’m guessing that for “3,1,4.z.z.ed.zh.” no one will suffer, even the character “DIMON”.

[Smog]

Quote: V.ic

I’m not a prosecutor, but I’m guessing that for “3,1,4.z.z.ed.zh.” no one will suffer, even the character “DIMON”

And what does it have to do with your spelling, DIMON.?
The article is generally about the shadow economy in the USSR.

[Amurets]

Quote: Smog

What changes are being prepared in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation? Will they plant for potato? If only for the one that grows in the shade, then I’m not afraid, I have a little plot in the sun.

No! They will not plant, I will tax, if not labor income and a means of illicit enrichment. *Correctly!
And then grandmothers and grandfathers grow potatoes there, but they don’t pay the treasury! It would be necessary to fix this flagrant flaw! * Quote from the site "YP" Completely impossible to bring, get an eternal ban.
http://www.yaplakal.com/forum1/st/100/topic144077
0.html

[your1970]

5. In 1970-ies, about a quarter of agricultural production was produced in private plots, much of it went to collective farm markets.
What is the situation with this now? Is the potato out of the shadows or not?-there was a nuance of potatoes / stuff was rubbing (for a bottle of moonshine) on the collective farm - after which it was transported to the market as it was ....

[Smog]

Quote: your1970

potatoes / stuff were being cooked (for a bottle of moonshine) on a collective farm - after which it was transported to the market as it was ....

Ahhhhhh !!!!!!! Well, yes, now there are no collective farms, no state farms either. We buy potatoes in Belarus, Israel, etc.
There was nothing to poke. So she came out of the shadow for sure.

[Heinrich ruppert]

Quote: Smog

There was nothing to poke. So she came out of the shadow for sure.

Kartokha tired of living in the shade, and moved over the hill. And so another jurisdiction extends to it. Feel free to plant for you there will be nothing

[Smog]

Quote: Heinrich Ruppert

Feel free to plant for you there will be nothing

Well thank you benefactor, well thank you .....

[bionik]

Quote: Spartanez300

That ordinary people suffered because of this shadow economy, but no, of course he lived and enjoyed life

“The shadow economy” did not appear from scratch, one of the reasons for its appearance is that the state could not provide people with the most ordinary household items, clothes and other trifles (where the resources for these industries came from is of course another question), but people wanted to live now, not in the "bright future."

[ImPerts]

I completely agree with you. They cannot provide clothes, household items and other trifles. This is especially evident in the USA, Japan, Germany, Great Britain ...
"...
At the present stage, the scale of the shadow economy in European countries can be estimated using the research results of the Austrian economist Friedrich Schneider, (Universität Linz, Austria). According to a study by Friedrich Schneider, in the 2013 year, the size of the shadow economy in Europe reached the 215 trillion mark. Euro, which is 18,5% of all EU economic activity. Almost two-thirds of the European shadow economy is concentrated in the five largest European countries - Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the UK. In Austria and Switzerland, the shadow economy is about 7 – 8% of the official GDP of these countries. The size of the shadow economy in Greece remains high compared to the EU average - 24% of GDP. In Bulgaria, Croatia, Lithuania and Estonia, the shadow economy reaches 30% of the size of the official economy ... "
SCALE OF THE SHADOW ECONOMY ABROAD // Youth Scientific Forum: Social and Economic Sciences: elektr. Sat Art. based on materials from XXXVI stud. Int. correspondence scientific and practical conf. - M .: “ICNO”. - 2016 —№ 7 (36) / [Electronic resource] - Access mode. - URL: https://nauchforum.ru/archive/MNF_social/7(36).pd
f

[krass]

Quote: ImPerts

in 2013, the size of the shadow economy in Europe reached a mark at 215 trillion. Euro, what is 18,5% from all economic activities of the EU

from the first of April

[ImPerts]

Similarly
And Israeli too (personally participated), they love you cheaper, but without checks

[Social Democrat]

In Russia, the shadow economy reaches 50-60% of GDP.

[34 region]

06.37. Bionic! The state today cannot provide people with the most ordinary household items. And people want today and now. In this regard, our Chinese brothers help us out a lot. They seem to deliver everything. A completely similar comment. What will be the conclusions?

[Odysseus]

The fact that the “shadow” economy, which is essentially a market economy, is hostile and dangerous for the socialist economy, is undeniable (by the way, unlike the capitalist economy, in which the “shadow” economy fits in perfectly without presenting any threat to the stability of capitalism), it is also obvious that the "guilds" were one of the beneficiaries of the "perestroika" having a steady "competitive advantage" with a large weaning and division of property in the early 90's
But here is the conclusion that it is the “shadow economy” that is responsible for the restructuring to be worthless. According to the author, it turns out that those who grew something in their garden (that the author does not understand why he refers to the shadow economy) or at most organized somewhere Someday in the Uzbek SSR, the left-hand tailoring shop immediately got the right to indicate the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.
Immediately, Gorbachev’s picture appears at a secret meeting of farmers listening to an indication that it is time to begin perestroika
Here the author goes so far as to argue that against the background of his conclusions, even the idea that the "CIA agents" organized the perestroika (which is incorrect in itself), seems to be reasonable as an explanatory dictionary.

[ImPerts]

Quote: Odyssey

Gorbachev at a secret meeting of farmers listens to the instruction that it is time to begin perestroika

A bit wrong.
Why are almost all of our homegrown businessmen from the Komsomol secretaries?
And Gorbachev is a consequence of total corruption at all levels. He thought he would do it right by legalizing the existing one. And he released the reins from his hands. He was therefore chosen. Satisfied everyone. But at the same time it turned out to be the most cunning, Khrushchev No.2.

[Odysseus]

Quote: ImPerts

Why are almost all of our homegrown businessmen from the Komsomol secretaries?

Because property was transferred to them. This was primarily an internal party affair. The degenerated part of the party certainly entered into an alliance with the underworld (guilds), but the underworld, like the metropolitan intelligentsia, was a “junior partner.” Specifically, relatively small property was transferred to criminals in the regions (although some of the most agile and got large enterprises)

Quote: ImPerts

And Gorbachev is a consequence of total corruption at all levels.

Corruption, this is theft. If Gorbachev was the result of "total corruption", it turns out that theft flourished until 1985. Who stole? Suslov who wore one coat? Secretary of the regional committee with a miserable special distributor and a cottage in 2 floors? As the apotheosis of corruption, the Uzbek functionaries are proposed who had less than a small modern official sawing budgets somewhere in Kirovo-Chepetsk.
Just the exact opposite. One of the reasons for the restructuring was the lack of opportunities for quick enrichment and theft for senior employees.

Quote: ImPerts

He thought he would do it right by legalizing the existing one.

Not to legalize the existing ones, because they did not have anything, but to give them the opportunity to have something substantial, moreover, uncontrollably.

[ImPerts]

Quote: Odyssey

This was primarily an internal party affair.

Why exactly the inner-party? Do you claim that Suslov was aware of what the secretary for ideology of the CPSU regional committee was doing together with the second Komsomol secretary somewhere in Birobidzhan or Kirovograd?

Quote: Odyssey

Secretary of the Regional Committee with a miserable special distributor and cottage on the 2 floor? As the apotheosis of corruption, Uzbek functionaries are proposed who had less than a small modern official sawing budgets somewhere in Kirovo-Chepetsk

/
Are you sure that the Uzbek functionary had less?
"... On April 27 1983 in the city of Bukhara, the Uzbek SSR, while receiving a bribe in the amount of 1 000 rubles, was detained
red-handed chief of the OBHSS ATC of the Bukhara regional executive committee Muzaffarov A ... "
"... At the same time, searches began. In total, Muzaffarov’s property was seized on
the amount of one and a half million rubles. In the home safe it turned out 1 131 183 rubles, coins,
gold items ... "
That is, the head of the OBHSS, not the party boss, had 2 and a half million rubles at home.
And how many are buried and hidden ...

[Odysseus]

Quote: ImPerts

Why exactly the inner-party

Since the party carried out perestroika, it distributed property.

Quote: ImPerts

Do you claim that Suslov was aware of what the secretary for ideology of the CPSU regional committee was doing together with the second Komsomol secretary somewhere in Birobidzhan or Kirovograd?

Suslov is an example of what the top leaders of the superpower had, but they didn’t even have anything compared to the capitalist rulers in some Colombia, not to mention the countries of the core of the capital system.

Quote: ImPerts

Are you sure that the Uzbek functionary had less?

It is doubtful that a person who has 1,5 million (which in the USSR it was impossible to spend without raising suspicion) would take a bribe of a thousand. Most likely he kept the "common fund".

Quote: ImPerts

That is, the head of the OBHSS, not the party boss

It’s just that the head of the OBHSS was easier than the party boss. Well, let the most ardent corrupt official in the Uzbek USSR have as much as an ordinary official now has.
This does not change the general principle, the very idea of ​​perestroika was to add property to the government and not have a salary of 500 rubles and a special distributor, all the while afraid of the KGB and the party control committee, but billions of dollars and personal planes without responding to no one.

[ImPerts]

Quote: Odyssey

It is doubtful that a person who has 1,5 million

"... The director of the Bukhara city industrial trade committee Sh. Kudratov was detained. Closely connected with Muzaffarov and Karimov, he also shamelessly and brazenly robbed his subordinates." The law is me, Shody Kudratov, "this bribe taker used to say. According to the information from the KGB officers He also kept a significant part of his wealth at his place of residence, and searches continued for three days in his house and in the garden. They seized more than half a million rubles in cash and several glass jars with jewelry, gold coins, and other property. its worth over four million rubles ... "
Read and enjoy:
http://fictionbook.ru/static/trials/00/15/65/0015
6559.a4.pdf
"... In November-December 1984 in the homeland of Karimov in the Kashkadarya region
to withdraw 6 million rubles worth of his property. Penetrated into a new
region, we started an investigation against the first secretary of the regional party committee R. Gaipov and the head of the Internal Affairs Directorate H. Norbutaev ... "

[Alexander Greene]

And now other information has leaked. Gdlyan and Ivanov indiscriminately accused some senior officials of corruption and assigned how much money and jewelry they donate voluntarily. They say that they were collected by all relatives to fulfill the requirements.

[ImPerts]

For such amounts they would be buried there. And it would not be necessary to collect "such amounts."
And finally, where do you see Gdlyan and Ivanov in the lists of multimillionaires? Billionaires? 10 million rubles is a prohibitive amount by the standards of Soviet citizens. Gold could not be attached?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: ImPerts

And finally, where do you see Gdlyan and Ivanov in the lists of multimillionaires? Billionaires? 10 million rubles is a prohibitive amount by the standards of Soviet citizens. Gold could not be attached?

Their task was more than 10 million rubles .. they had to discredit the Soviet government. By this they contributed to the collapse of the USSR.

[ImPerts]

It does not fit.
Or what I do not understand?
For 10.000.000 rubles they would not even be buried, they would be sent to space ...
By creating a new station.
With a mission to Mars.

[Han Tengri]

Quote: ImPerts

"... AT November-December 1984 on homeland Karimova in Kashkadarya region managed
to seize his valuables in the amount of 6 million rubles ...

For your information:

"Islam Karimov was born on January 30, 1938 in Samarkand " (vile wicked.)
He was the Minister of Finance of the Uzbek SSR (1983-1986), Chairman of the State Planning Commission of the Republic and Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Uzbek SSR (1986) [3]. AT 1986 (!!!) year Karimov transferred to the post first secretary of Kashkadarya Regional Committee of the Communist Party of Uzbekistan [3], (she)

Question: If one short sentence contains two serious errors, is it worth trusting the article as a whole?

[ImPerts]

Quote: HanTengri

For your information:

For de ... bi ... tey
(vile wiki)
"... 1977 — 4.01.1984 - Karimov, Abduvahid Karimovich ...".
Z.Y. Information must be sought more carefully.
Do not rush from the run to the iconic marks and fry)))

[Han Tengri]

Well, so, it would be nice to put initials. And then the Karimovs, like the Ivanovs ... And for two hours poking around in the net, looking for which of the Karimovs they had no time or desire.

[Han Tengri]

Since, by the 80s, in the Uzbek SSR, it wasn’t a “taking” functionary, there was a value that was practically unobservable.

[krass]

Quote: Odyssey

The fact that the "shadow" economy, a market economy in its essence, is hostile and dangerous to the socialist economy is undeniable (

the fact is that in many respects thanks to her, a simple Soviet citizen had something to eat and dress.
Make repairs .

Quote: Odyssey

According to the author, it turns out that those who grew something in their garden (which the author does not understand why they relate to the shadow economy) or, as a maximum, organized somewhere in the Uzbek SSR the left sewing workshop immediately got the right to indicate the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.

he simply meant that at a time of general deficit, people who made something for themselves and for sale completely disbelieved as in social services. so in all the slogans rushing from the TV

[ImPerts]

I didn't have it
For a long time they persistently told people about the forbidden, in the end they seduced ...
Straight Bible story
And raped at the end

[vladimirvn]

Everything is going as predicted. The main thing is not to interfere with the course of history.

[kalibr]

But there is not Marx: 1. The era of natural coercion to work. 2. The Age of Non-Economic Forced Labor. 3. The era of economic forced labor. And that’s all. Nothing more! "Repin's painting sailed!" And who said that the scheme of Marx is better than this? This - more precisely!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

But there is not Marx: 1. The era of natural coercion to work. 2. The Age of Non-Economic Forced Labor. 3. The era of economic forced labor. And that’s all. Nothing more! "Repin's painting sailed!" And who said that the scheme of Marx is better than this? This - more precisely!

Only according to your scheme, not everyone works at stages 2 and 3, the propertied part parasitizes on those whom they coerce no matter what, and Marx has a fourth stage at which everyone works, because labor becomes a natural need for a person. So the Marx scheme is fairer, and therefore more precisely ..

[kalibr]

And where did you see this stage No. 4? Anything can be fantasized ... In real life, the smart will always live at the expense of fools, the knowledgeable - at the expense of the ignorant, the strong - at the expense of the weak. All people are structured in such a way that they take advantage of their benefits and no one gives up on them voluntarily. Believe that it could be otherwise - idealism!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

And where did you see this stage number 4? Anything can be fantasized ...

This, dear, communism. This is our future.

Quote: kalibr

In real life, the smart will always live at the expense of fools, the knowledgeable - at the expense of the ignorant, the strong - at the expense of the weak. All people are structured in such a way that they take advantage of their benefits and no one gives up on them voluntarily. Believe that it could be otherwise - idealism!

You have high self-esteem, and therefore you have too much arrogance and you do not like people.
But the wise Cormack grandson Komala (by the way, the king, the hero of Irish tales) taught his children:

Don't laugh at the old if you're young
and over the poor, if you are rich,
and over the lame if you're agile
and above the dark, if you are a scientist,
and over dumb if you are capable,
and over stupid, if you are wise ...

[kalibr]

These are all empty words, any words can be thought up. The main thing is business! Things are obvious. But people are stupid, I really do not like, and among my friends and acquaintances there are simply no such people. But there are smart people everywhere - in Russia, in England, in the USA, in Japan, in Ukraine, in Lithuania ... and for some reason I somehow find a common language. Although all these people are different. What unites them is one ...

[Moor]

Quote: kalibr

. Although all these people are different. What unites them is one ...

Is life bad without sucker?

[parusnik]

Under Stalin, too, they worked on personal plots and they were much larger than under Khrushchev .. But there were Procurement Offices, cooperatives that were engaged in the purchase of what was produced .. My grandmother’s husband didn’t enter the collective farm .. and before the war and after ..from the front came .. Lived by working for themselves .. and according to the memoirs, grandmothers and mothers they did not live badly ... even very much .. And despite the food tax that was paid after the war .. it remained. .

[Heinrich ruppert]

Quote: parusnik

..But there were procurement offices, cooperatives that were engaged in the purchase of produced

But after all, the procurement offices were under Gorbachov. I know from my personal experience. Grown rabbits and in the ancients of the gobies. About half went to a restaurant and the other half went to an office. So it was another plus. For each kilogram you were given mixed feed, plus you could buy different imports. There were no problems with the disruptors and the apparatus. Just work. I bought myself on rabbits at 16. On bull-calves with a cousin he bought a used VAZ 2103 for 4000 rubles in 1987.

[Olgovich]

Thus, the illusion was created that the shadow economy made up for the shortcomings of the "white" economy.

Not an illusion, but the most that neither is reality.

Where the state was clumsy and long tossing and turning, the shadow workers quickly and efficiently satisfied the demand for the same jeans, jackets, etc.

The shadow economy is an inevitable continuation of the Soviet economy.

[34 region]

08.45. Olgovich! Today, the state is clumsy tossing and turning. Well, where are the fast shadow people today? Where is the quick satisfaction of demand? Is the Chinese economy a shadow economy or a continuation of the Russian? Why do we have almost all products from China? There is even a website where you can order goods from China. Goods from China, Chinese production. And where are the goods of Russian production? The market is free. Do what you want. Why not done? After all, the same questions for the USSR can be addressed today to modern Russia. But in the USSR at least a mass of consumer goods was produced. Then the Kommubyaks were to blame. Today they are not. Who is to blame today? Where are these enterprising citizens who were hindered by the Kommubyaks? Who is stopping these dancers today?

[Reptiloid]

34 REGION !!!!!!! Yes, indeed, it was good to compete from the shadows, bypassing the laws, and there was also speculation as part of the deficit. The deficit was profitable for the shady and probably created on purpose! !!!!! I didn’t understand all this topic before, but now ----- it struck !!!!!!. But don’t think that I just didn’t understand. Young mothers were often asked: "Is it really true that before there were no convenience stores. " Well and further down the list ...

[Reptiloid]

And so that the state would toss and turn slowly, it is necessary to put sticks in the wheels for it, most of it to be put in the shade, to create deficit and speculation on purpose and ““ you to me, I to you. ”” How much did I ask about this shortfall ......

[EvgNik]

Who is stopping these dancers today?

Regi, the WTO is in the way. It is forbidden to us to produce something. We must take what they deign to give us. And your business, producing something, oh how hard it is to keep afloat

[34 region]

12.30. Eugenic! We joined the WTO relatively recently. But before joining the WTO, something was also not visible giant steps of development.

[karabas86]

Then they entered into what or in a joke, we’ll step into the bucket.

[Jumbo]

paradox, under the "tyrant" Stalin, the private trader had the opportunity to work legally on a par with state-owned enterprises, and with the "white, fluffy" Khrushchev, whom the liberals were ready to pray, he lost this opportunity.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Jumbo

on which liberals are ready to pray

Liberals in Russia have always prayed for its enemies.

[hhhhhhh]

shadow income in hairdressing salons. The scale is huge))))) The person who wrote this in his mind?

[Alexander Greene]

Read about the Soviet economy of the Stalin period

http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/stalinskaja_model_
socializma / 1-1-0-55
http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/o_gosudarstvennom_
kapitalizme / 1-1-0-56

[pts-m]

Well, it’s not in vain that people say ... you want to live, know how to turn around ... Power pressed on one side, and life on the other. All this in a joint execution led to a shadow economy. And that, party supplies abroad, is clean economics. So the authorities in the USSR steered a cart under the name ... CPSU-um, honor and conscience of the USSR ...

[Igor V]

I do not agree with some of the arguments in the article. Something did not notice the alcohol deficiency in the 79th. It was sold to itself in stores, and there was a choice. If taxi drivers and guides sold at night, it is unlikely that this trade was estimated as a percentage of GDP.
At the beginning of the 70s there were no boom of summer residences, then they gave 2-4 hundred parts, marketable vegetables cannot be grown on them. Yes, in Central Asia there was a practice of renting outland, somewhere on the mountain slopes. They actually raised consignments to the market, but it is stupid to socialize this all over the country. Especially talking about a third of the working time, when mainly old people and children worked in such areas. Even in the late 80s, during the hacienda boom, a few percent of the fruits and vegetables grown were on the market.
In a word, caution should be taken in the work of foreign experts.

[bandabas]

https://news.rambler.ru/business/36498434-vasilev
oy-vernuli-arestovannoe-imuschestvo /
No comment.

[andrewkor]

So I, earning on "leftists", means was a "shadow worker"

[mar4047083]

And why, the author decided that these problems are inherent only in the USSR. In the bright capitalist West, they are doing the same thing, just more refined, so that they do not catch the eye. For a long time, Europe or America has not had the capitalism described in the 19th century. And the economy there is not strangely planned, and prices are regulated there. Regulatory requirements for goods are probably tougher than GOSTs. The competition probably remained only with the sale of sandwiches and cowards. Almost classical capitalism was possibly in the Russian Federation in the 90s. Then they did everything they wanted. So, that true capitalism is now only with idiots, and if they begin to behave badly, then they are quickly transferred to medieval feudalism.

[demotivator]

Yes, it was like that in the USSR. In the late 60s and early 70s he served in Tbilisi, where the shadow economy was one of the developed in the country. What was not done there only in clandestine workshops - from consumer goods to food. I saw about the same thing in the republics of Central Asia, where I got to serve already in the 80s. I understand intellectually that it is shadow, it is shadow, but the population still had some benefit from it. Especially, at a time when state-owned enterprises did not have time to satisfy the demand of the population for various goods - the shadow industry produced them and people bought from them. By the way, this phenomenon has not disappeared at all. It is now there, only modified. People who prefer to work for themselves, without leaving the shadow, today are called "self-employed" - these are the same shadow workers, only on a scale, maybe smaller. I’m repairing my car with a neighbor, a repairman for any engines. A queue for him is scheduled for a week. He puts all the income in his pocket, the police do not touch - they go to him to fix the problems themselves.

[mar4047083]

A shadow economy is any economic activity that runs counter to the laws of a country. We now also have a 50 percent shadow economy. Are you always honestly paying income tax? If you get a black salary and did not report to the tax or police, then you can automatically be called an accomplice. Those Soviet shadow workers are just children, when compared with current businessmen. And in other countries like that. Somewhere better, but somewhere completely collapsed (Africa, Ukraine). It has always been and always will be, the whole question is the quantity and quality of crime. In the USSR there was a network of speculators of consumer goods (shadow economy), and in the USA and the Russian Federation a network of drug dealers (this is a market economy). Although in terms of turnover, Soviet profiteers are just children compared to drug dealers. Kilograms of gold were expropriately seized from Soviet senior party officials, and billions of rubles were seized from Russians (this is what they kept at home in a nightstand for pocket expenses). Yes, any of the most advanced Soviet guilds or a corrupt official is simply a rogue against the background of current leaders. And such miracles are not only ours.

[Looking for]

All you want and you want the Soviet regime, the renegades are worthless.

[voyaka uh]

The shadow economy is capitalism.
Socialism is not able to provide the population with food products and goods.
consumerism - capitalism intervenes. And confidently wins.
As proved by Katasonov .

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: voyaka uh

The shadow economy is capitalism.
Socialism is not able to provide the population with food products and goods.
consumerism - capitalism intervenes. And confidently wins.

The shadow economy is not capitalism yet. It was a violation of the law and was punishable up to the death penalty.

Socialism provided the entire Soviet people with food. Where it could not reach the public sector, namely in the local small industry, consumer cooperation worked there.

But when Khrushchev turned down the Stalinist model of socialism, converted it to self-financing, capitalism really began to penetrate into all the pores of the Soviet economy. It became not profitable to produce cheap reliable goods. Then the shadow economy appeared.

[voyaka uh]

"Socialism fully provided the products of the entire Soviet people" ////

Are you from a special distributor for teachers of Marxism-Leninism?
The Soviet people stood in long long hours in stores with empty shelves,
where sometimes "thrown away" (heard of such a term of the Soviet era?)
some valuable goods: meat (!) or sausage (!).
And I happened - an unforgettable experience! - to stand in such lines in the city - "the cradle of the revolution."
And it is in the center of the city. In the vicinity of Leningrad, a food store meant (if you come in the afternoon): completely empty shelves and two goods -
matches and salt. And in the morning you could buy bread, kefir, sour cream, if you hurry.

[Alexander Greene]

voyaka uh Today, 10: 31 ↑ New
"Socialism fully provided the products of the entire Soviet people" ////

Are you from a special distributor for teachers of Marxism-Leninism?
The Soviet people stood in long long hours in stores with empty shelves,

Dear, I’m seen older than you and I remember the full shelves of the 50s of different and, moreover, cheap goods, for which prices were reduced annually. The first price increases for products and lines appeared in the early 60s, after Khrushchev disbanded MTS and forced collective farms to buy equipment from them. As a result, collective farms had to include the cost of equipment in the price of their products.

[kalibr]

And bread with corn, and meat with bones (which is better to buy in the store!), And sausages in the dining room of the OK CPSU. Although ... there was a time when sausages were served in a cafe. He ate them there. But now to buy ... it's a fig! Or go to the buffet OK!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

And bread with corn, and meat with bones (which is better to buy in the store!), And sausages in the dining room of the OK CPSU. Although ... there was a time when sausages were served in a cafe. He ate them there. But now to buy ... it's a fig! Or go to the buffet OK!

Did you also live in the 50s?

[voyaka uh]

"and I remember the full shelves of the 50s of different and, moreover, cheap goods, for which prices were reduced annually. The first price increases for products and lines appeared in the early 60s" ///

Full shelves in two or three "model" grocery stores in 3-4 model cities of the USSR
(Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev ...). In other places, there was condom poverty. Where is the sugar
was a luxury, and about the beef steak the proletariat did not even suspect what it was ...

The great Vysotsky wrote exhaustively about this system: "the corridor system"
("Everyone lived on the same level, modestly like this: the corridor system,
There are only one restroom for thirty-eight rooms ").
Working huts and communal apartments ... With one room for a family of 2-3 generations. With the shirms ...
And the "Stalinist houses," of course. Which prescribed the "Stalinist nomenclature."

[Moor]

Quote: voyaka uh

In the rest of the places, there was condom poverty. Where is the sugar
was a luxury, and about the beef steak the proletariat did not even suspect what it was ...

How tired you are with your tales !!! Wait at least when our generation that was born and lived in the USSR becomes extinct, and then tremble! For reference: I was born in the 70 year in a tiny town in Komi, my father and mother were engineers, I didn’t take any money or connections for the rest of my life. So, in your opinion, I grew up on cabbage and radish, didn’t see meat in my eyes? You yap, my friend.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: voyaka uh

The great Vysotsky wrote exhaustively about this system: "the corridor system"
("Everyone lived on the same level, modestly like this: the corridor system,
There are only one restroom for thirty-eight rooms ").

Dear, unlike you, I myself have lived this story and everything that I write happened before my eyes or my parents or my grandfathers, and you teach stories from songs, I just feel sorry for you.

Surely you heard the song of the Lube group about Alaska, "Catherine, you were wrong." If you believe the song, it turns out that Catherine sold Alaska ... Is this really true?

[Sergej1972]

In such houses in the regions, part of the apartments was given not only to their superiors, but also to activists, advanced workers.

[Candibober]

And here is interesting. Who forced,
you Jews to move from Boryspil, Zhmerynka and other places to the cradle of the revolution? They would live there, keep their household.
And they would not cry, according to sour cream, meat and sausage.
And then everything is with you, crying from childhood
poorly fed.

[Alexander Greene]

kalibr,

Quote: kalibr

It will be necessary to find and see. As you yourself understand, it’s a little strange to hold a dissertation on the subject of the history of the CPSU in 1988. Somewhere it is like a memory, of course. And I remember that there are more 100, but how many I do not remember exactly. But the topic seems interesting, it’s good that you paid my attention to this. By the way, after reading your answer, I went to search. And ... he found his daughter’s dissertation. True, it is not based on the history of the CPSU, but there are very interesting materials. About how the party forged on the ground the cadres of lecturers and propagandists, what questions the OK lecturer asked the people - during the perestroika period. And I will find a dissertation. Maybe even it is already digitized, by the way. And there is this link! Now I’ll do it!

Please do, otherwise we do not believe. Here are the statistics of the 10th Five-Year Plan on the number of universities in the Central Asian republics:

Kazakh SSR - 55
Uzbek USSR - 42
Kyrgyz SSR - 10
Tajik SSR - 10
Turkmen SSR - 8

A total of 135 universities.

If you write down 10% for each university, as you think, a good indicator, then with a simple summation (which is incorrect) it turns out 1350% . Really sat in the Central Committee of the Komsomol so stupid that they did not understand this. I admit that the typist, when she typed a certificate, missed a comma somewhere in the final data (not obtained by adding), the secretaries signed without looking, and she went to the Central Committee of the CPSU, i.e. I make a technical mistake. But you made a joke out of this.

You described the anecdotal reaction of the Central Committee of the CPSU - "The East is a delicate matter, we must not quarrel with them." Is this a resolution on the inquiry, or a response letter, or this is from the comedy “White Desert Sun”.

In general, please find a source so that we can continue to believe you. Do not lower to anecdotal lies.
You can tell such an anecdote in your own environment, there they will readily believe it, but here people are serious ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

By this they contributed to the collapse of the USSR.

Out of mischief? And where is the profit? There is always profit. It is unlikely that they were pathological maniacs.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Out of mischief? And where is the profit? There is always profit. It is unlikely that they were pathological maniacs.

What is your profit? Why are you so aggressively opposing our Soviet past ?.

[kalibr]

Because I don’t like it when they deceive me and when the deception is revealed, I try to prevent others from falling for him.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Because I don’t like it when they deceive me and when the deception is revealed, I try to prevent others from falling for him.

While you're fooling.

[kalibr]

But this is not proven, my dear. I will not even try to prove something to you. The dissertation is in the public domain. Open, read ... You can easily find a link to the archive of the Komsomol Central Committee. Labor in the name of the blessed memory of the deceased in the Bose of the USSR, he ennobles. And I climb on the mezzanine for the sake of some there ... well, in general, a person under your flag is not handy. The caliber, you know, is not the same.

[Alexander Greene]

.

Quote: kalibr

But this is not proven, my dear. I will not even try to prove something to you. The dissertation is in the public domain. Open, read ... You can easily find a link to the archive of the Komsomol Central Committee. Labor in the name of the blessed memory of the deceased in the Bose of the USSR, he ennobles. And I climb on the mezzanine for the sake of some there ... well, in general, a person under your flag is not handy. The caliber, you know, is not the same.

Shitting on the little things and getting away from the answer is your method, but this indicates that your caliber will be small.

[kalibr]

You probably laugh, huh? I suggest that you find compromising material yourself, do such a pleasant thing yourself ... I want to deliver pleasure, so to speak. And you turn your nose. You shit under your nose - it’s bad, you offer a good one - again, not like that. Something is wrong with you, Ukrainians are wrong. This has long been noticed by everyone. Probably the consequences of Chernobyl.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Something is wrong with you, Ukrainians are wrong. This has long been noticed by everyone. Probably the consequences of Chernobyl

With this answer you have shown once again that you have no place in a normal human society. You don’t even understand that you are blaspheming the memory of the victims of Chernobyl.

The Chernobyl radioactive cloud covered not only Ukrainian, but also Belarusian and Russian lands. Among the liquidators of the accident were specialists from different republics of the USSR and none of them was divided by nationality.

All participants in the elimination sacrificed their health and lives in order to extinguish the radioactive source, so that the radioactive infection does not reach you, so that you live peacefully. And you….

PS My mother-in-law doctor twice voluntarily went to the Chernobyl zone to save people, there she received a large dose of radiation. Died ahead of time ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

and here people are serious ...

Do not tell my slippers ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: Alexander Green
and here people are serious ...

Do not tell my slippers ...

Dear, and remember, I wrote to you when we discussed the article "Troubles in Russia"
(https://topwar.ru/109105-smuta-na-rusi.html#comme
nt-id-6656933)

Alexander Green February 19, 2017 17:53 ↑
Do not tell my slippers.

And you answered me:

kalibr February 19, 2017 22:14 p.m. ↑
"Don’t tell my slippers" is not the answer, you know. Not a serious answer. At school level. And then, not even ours, Russian, modern, but soviet, which has long been gone.

Well, what do you call it now? Crisis of the genre, or petty plagiarism? I have had "Do not tell my slippers". But you, as a scientist, creatively reworked and wrote this phrase "Do not tell me my slippers ..."

And since you use plagiarism in the small, you probably do not disdain plagiarism in the big. Therefore, the conclusion suggests itself: All your scientific works are sheer plagiarism.

[kalibr]

That's why you were so told about slippers ... Well, are you really a judge, to judge plagiarism? A "serious man" ... from the outskirts of Russia, who, after reading Gumilyov and a couple of "live magazines", imagined that he knew something? If there is a word “creatively”, remember, this is no longer plagiarism. But you better take a look at the comments on the site (this is a question about serious people). At least someone (and you including) at least once referred to publications in the journals "Questions of History", "History of State and Law" and the like? I have never met something, and only about such a source as dissertations have everyone heard, but God forbid to read. So the “formidable judge”, at least read something serious, and then write. And do not tell admins. All materials supplied to VO for printing are checked by the ANTIPLAGIAT system. Mine usually have a novelty level of 92%. So what are you talking about?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

If there is a word “creatively”, remember, this is no longer plagiarism.

Yes, do not be upset. They say that even Dumas, Emil Zola, and even Moliere and Shakespeare were accused of plagiarism. And since you “creatively” removed two letters from the word “slippers”, added ellipsis and changed the order of words in the sentence, there is no doubt that this is no longer plagiarism.

But using this expression, even if it’s creatively reworked, you didn’t notice how you went down to my level, or as you wrote there, to the “Soviet school”. You are a real representative of the modern elite, which crawled out of the dirt and riches.

I had such a boss, he defended his thesis and was terribly proud of it, so he had the credo: “If you are not a candidate of science, then there’s nothing to talk to you.” The real prince.

[kalibr]

Firstly, why did you get that I'm upset? Or that you can upset me with something? And secondly, he was wrong this boss. It is necessary to speak humanly with everyone. But, of course, without going through something else, it’s hard to understand. But I once wrote that a candidate’s job is just a qualification work that only shows your skills in working in the archive or with anything ... the ability to build phrases. A person becomes a scientist either before or after. After protection, your boss has how many scientific papers and monographs?
By the way, I know about Dumas the father and Sholokhov. I'm just now working on a textbook on online journalism for one publisher. There will be about plagiarism and about them too ... But why write so rudely - from mud to riches ... my ancestors lived well under the tsar and under the USSR. So it’s you who are doing such unsightly hints at the wrong address. I already wrote to you - first deal with yourself, and then teach us.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

I already wrote to you - first deal with yourself, and then teach us.

We’ll figure it out, we’re working on it, but you, as they say, do not renounce the prison and the sum. You do not bother to think about the consequences of your anti-Soviet propaganda,

Historical experience shows that when the Communists are beaten (and you contribute a lot to this), the Nazis come in their place, then don’t complain if you fall under some random pogrom.

[kalibr]

Ha ha ha ha!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Ha ha ha ha!

The one who laughs last laughs well. The main events are yet to come.

[kalibr]

Losers always say that. This is their consolation!

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

otherwise we don’t believe

Who are "we? "Nicholas II"? Write for yourself, dear ... For the people were already guardians ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Who are "we? "Nicholas II"? Write for yourself, dear ... For the people were already guardians ...

And you stop slandering the Soviet past.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

And you stop slandering the Soviet past.

Why slander him after 1991? Good states do not fall apart without a single shot from the enemy, with full ammunition of nuclear missiles and a powerful fleet of nuclear-powered ships. RI collapsed at least from the difficulties of the! -Th World War. And then what? So what slander are you writing about? That's all you can’t write - SMALL! You, Green, put things in order there in Ukraine, and only then get in here to teach us.

[Moor]

Quote: kalibr

Good states do not fall apart without a single shot from the enemy, with full ammunition of nuclear missiles and a powerful fleet of nuclear-powered ships. RI collapsed at least from the difficulties of the! -Th World War.

Curious. Following your logic, the USSR was supposed to fall apart in 1941 for its losses were many times higher than the losses of RI? It is one thing when the state destroys an external enemy and quite another when it is destroyed by those who control it. The main reason for the death of the Union is the apathy of the population, which for 60-80 has been accustomed to the idea that the giraffe is large, it is visible to him. But the giraffe turned around like a wolf and devoured the herd. And when 1993 realized that we were going the wrong way, our EBN brought tanks to the streets, did not hesitate.

[kalibr]

Did you get lethargic from frost or from vodka? And the Martians were “accustomed to thought” by a thought irradiator? And why did you write on 41 year? Losses? Yes there were, but did not fall apart. So that was what connected. But 91 didn’t. That's the whole logic!

[Moor]

Fatigue started from satiety. From the belief that tomorrow will not be worse than today. And from reluctance to delve into the essence of what is happening. A person, in principle, quickly gets used to the good and ceases to value what he has today. That is why such a different attitude to the phrase “If only there was no war” among those who went through the war and those who judge it only by films. Apparently, this is the human essence that society should be regularly dipped in feces in order to be able to compare

[kalibr]

[quote = Moor] Apparently, this is the human essence that society should be regularly dipped in feces in order to be able to compare
You said very well!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Why slander him after 1991? Good states do not fall apart without a single shot from the enemy, with full ammunition of nuclear missiles and a powerful fleet of nuclear-powered ships.

So what are you slandering? USSR destroyed, why bother? Live yourself, plagiarize further. But no, the USSR does not give you peace, and you pour dirt on it, on the Soviet people.

[kalibr]

I do not want a repeat! Do you want unanimity ?! So that everyone merges in the ecstasy of admiration for the lost paradise? So I want ... the opposite. I, too, am a man and nothing human is alien to me. As I recall ... so startled. And ... why not write? Tired of writing all the time about armor and samurai!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

I, too, am a man and nothing human is alien to me. As I recall ... so startled. And ... why not write?

Is it really a human need to spit in your past?

[kalibr]

In a decent society, where I usually go around, it's called a little differently - "work on the bugs"

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: kalibr
I, too, am a man and nothing human is alien to me. As I recall ... so startled. And ... why not write?


Is it really a human need to spit in your past?

Quote: kalibr

0
kalibr Today, 12:46 PM ↑ New
In a decent society, where I usually go around, it's called a little differently - "work on the bugs"

A society in which they spit on the past cannot be decent. Therefore verily: "Say who your friend is, and I will say who you are!

[kalibr]

The opinion of the loser, along with others, is already about ... his country, right? Very valuable, of course. And you again take up the banal sayings? Polyfoam of the brain affected by Chernobyl? Remember that you do not write here, your opinion does not matter at all. And I answer you only because of your clicks. The fewer of them, the higher the advertising attractiveness of the site. And it matters to me.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

The opinion of the loser, along with others, is already about ... his country, right? Very valuable, of course. And you again take up the banal sayings? Polyfoam of the brain affected by Chernobyl? Remember that you do not write here, your opinion does not matter at all. And I answer you only because of your clicks. The fewer of them, the higher the advertising attractiveness of the site. And it matters to me.

First, read the classics, they all come from ordinary people say with proverbs, and you consider them commonplace. There is too much arrogance in you, smoothly turning into arrogance.

Secondly, I repeat that you have no place in a normal human society. You don’t even understand that once again you are blaspheming the memory of the victims of Chernobyl, and I answer you only because the more you write the answers, the better you show your true face.

[Moor]

The famous (now deceased) detective writer Eduard Khrutsky talked about this event: “In 1970, a“ significant ”event took place in the life of the country. True, the broad masses of the builders of socialism did not know anything about it. But in vain. This event affected the lives of ordinary citizens more than the regular congress of the CPSU.
In a lovely green Kiev, on the banks of the Dnieper, another gangway took place. Thieves in law decided how to live on.
Thieves concepts created in the Stalinist Gulag, no longer meet the requirements of the era. The shadow economy and speculation have become more profitable than theft.
At the "congress" thieves were allowed to "protect" clandestine workshops, if necessary, to deal with the cops and the administration. Moscow in the “gangway” was represented by the famous Moscow thief Anatoly Cherkasov, nicknamed “Cherkas”. So the shadow business became the concern of the thieves community. Thieves have teamed up with the guards, local authorities and some police officers.
With the huge money received from underground production, the arrangement of the highest officials of the country was bought "

[Niccola Mack]

Shadow workers become crowded even within the framework of the formal socialist mode of production. They begin to prepare a complete restoration of capitalism. It happened during the period when M. Gorbachev was in power under the guise of false slogans of perestroika.

This is a thoroughly false statement - the "guilds" were always tightly controlled and, in general, put up with.
And none of them fit into the ensuing "free market" - they knew how to work, but they had to be able to steal.
There was a very good program on this topic. In my opinion, someone’s journalistic investigation. Sorry did not remember the name.
There were several interviews with former "guild guards" - someone managed to convert money and dump it over a hill, but they were not allowed to continue working.