Assemble in parts: how machine tools are revived in Russia

51
In January 2017, Dmitry Medvedev announced the development by the Cabinet of Ministers of a new program for the development of the defense industry complex for the 2018-2025 years. It should include technological modernization of production facilities of defense enterprises. Procurement of foreign equipment makes international conditions difficult. At the same time, the Russian machine-tool industry, in the opinion of consumers of its products, is going through hard times. History the fall and revival of the industry, the opinions of critics and plans for machine-tool integrators, the demands of customers from the defense industry - in the review material Voennoe. RF.

Knock below: historical anti-record as a demonstration of decline



After changing the model of the economy from the state plan to market conditions, the machine tool industry found itself in a deep crisis. Due to the general economic shock, demand for machine tools has fallen among the main consumers - machine-building enterprises. At the same time, at the enterprises, the employees lost their qualifications, wore out and went off the production facilities, ran out of money.

In the zero years, the agony of the Russian machine tool industry continued. Key manufacturers ruined and folded unprofitable projects. One of the many examples is the Ordzhonikidze Moscow Plant, in the former territory of which the business center is now located.

The low point was the post-crisis 2009 year, when the number of manufactured machines reached a historical minimum. According to rough estimates, by this time about 40 machine tool enterprises have ceased to function - about a quarter of all Russian manufacturers. The surviving organizations were in a deplorable state.

Reduced machine production: 1990-2009
Assemble in parts: how machine tools are revived in Russia


Meanwhile, in the global machine tool industry, equipment became more complex and smarter, and new generation machines were developed and introduced abroad. Scientific and technical backwardness caused by the paralysis of the Russian machine tool industry, formed a dependence on foreign manufacturers.


Former building of the Moscow plant them. Ordzhonikidze

The government has paid attention to the decline of the industry in 2007. Then Denis Manturov, at that time, the deputy minister of the Ministry of Industry and Energy (the predecessor of the Ministry of Industry and Trade - ed.), First voiced the idea of ​​creating a machine-tool holding in Russia. It was assumed that the corporation called "Rosstankoprom" will merge state assets in industry enterprises to create a "assemblage point", after which private producers will voluntarily join its structure.

At the same time, a working group of the Ministry of Industry and Energy announced its intention to create a State Engineering Center on the basis of the Stankin University, whose tasks would include conducting R & D to overcome the technological lag, together with information and analytical assistance to private owners interested in upgrading production facilities and other intellectual processes.

The engineering center at Stankin was opened soon, in 2008 year. Created on the conceptual developments of the Manturov working group, the first state structure, RT Mechanical Engineering, appeared a little later - in the 2009 year. On its foundation in 2013, Rostec created Stankoprom, a "system integrator for the Russian machine tool industry."
As before it will not work

Before explaining the actions of the government and telling what is the point of forming a system integrator, consider the state of the industry at that time.

Its weak point was the low profitability of production by Russian enterprises of new machine tools in the changed economic and organizational conditions: in 2007, Expert magazine wrote that about 80% of enterprises' income was the repair and modernization of old equipment.

The fact is that in times of planned economy, machine-tool factories existed in a closed production cycle — most of the components for equipment were made inside enterprises. Due to 1990's technological leap, such an organizational model has become overly costly.

The leaders of the global machine tool industry reformatted the industry in such a way that local centers of competence were engaged in the production of high-tech components. So, one company manufactures electrical spindles, another produces revolving heads, and a third uses ball-screw gears, a fourth system develops CNC systems. Ultimately, the company at the last stage only assembles the machine from finished parts.

In Russia, it turned out that there was no one to cooperate, and there was nothing to assemble the machines. The modern component base is practically not made. In turn, "grandfathers" machines less and less interested in potential buyers.


Electrospindles for milling machine


CNC Monitor


Electric CNC Machines

A side effect of the industry crisis is that Russian products have a bad reputation: choosing between imported and local equipment, consumers are more likely to prefer the first one. In the language of economists, this is called an unfavorable demand forecast.

Also, questions were raised by the work of managers, sales staff and marketing specialists of machine tool factories. It is worth noting, however, that they had to cope with the pressure of high-tech equipment manufacturers, on the one hand, and Chinese dumping, on the other.

Let us add to this the problem with the influx of fresh personnel that has tainted all Russian industrialists, as well as the high lending rate for enterprises at the level of 17% - and we get an idea of ​​what machine tool industry represented in the second half of zero.

Private Russian companies did not want to invest in the rescue of the industry, and for foreigners there was no reason at all at that time. Levers of influence on the situation remained only with the state.
Launch of state machine mechanisms

The government began to take action at the turn of the decades. In addition to the creation of an engineering center and the first attempts to construct a state corporation, the Ministry of Industry and Trade in 2011 developed a conceptual program for reviving the industry. It was called the "Development of the domestic machine tool industry and tool industry for 2011-2016 years." Funding for the five-year program amounted to 26 billion rubles.

The objectives of the program are the creation of conditions for the mass production of competitive equipment, the organization of production sites for their production, and the creation of system integrators.

The notorious integrators are needed to build a cooperative chain between the community of producers of the component base, as well as to study the needs of customers in this or machine tool nomenclature. Delivering finished products to customers is the task of the integrator.

The state corporation Rostec undertook to supervise an integrator called Stankoprom, which the deputy head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Gleb Nikitin later in an interview with Kommersant called "an agent from the state."

In 2017, the Stankoprom structure includes research centers, engineering structures and a company for the production of production facilities. In addition, the integrator owns production facilities and equipment that the holding leases to machine tool builders, in particular, Savelovsky Machine-Building Plant. In February, the press service of the government of the Tver region reported that the plant received a package of orders from military industrialists in the amount of 900 million rubles.


Machine production "Savelovsky Machine-Tool Plant"

Protectionist measures have become another area of ​​work for the state. We are talking about the government resolution adopted in February 2011 of the year on the prohibition of the purchase of foreign equipment by defense industry enterprises at the expense of the state in the presence of Russian analogues. According to the Ministry of Industry and Trade, imports in the Russian market of machine tools in those years reached 90%. In the same year, 2011 launched a program to modernize the defense industry, and it was expected that the growth in orders would increase due to the renewal of equipment of enterprises.

Be that as it may, protectionism and the creation of state players are meaningless with a further increase in the scientific and technical gap between the advanced countries. To remedy the situation, the state invested 10 billion rubles from the state program in research and development.

Additionally, the program included the development of imported machine tool know-how through the direct purchase of technologies, the development of cooperative ties with foreign manufacturers and the localization of foreign production in Russia. To this end, the government announced the creation of machine-tool clusters in several regions of the country: in the Urals, in the Ulyanovsk, Rostov and Lipetsk regions, as well as in St. Petersburg and Tatarstan.

Stimulation of localization bore fruit pretty quickly. The Japanese company Okuma opened a joint venture with the Russian company Pumori in Yekaterinburg, their compatriots Takisawa launched an assembly plant in Kovrov, Ace Manufacturing systems came to the Perm region, and Azov - Kovosvit from the Czech Republic.

The government's strategy was to first stimulate foreign investors to create enterprises for assembling machine tools from components made abroad, and later to involve the localization of production units in Russia.
In September, 2016 of the year assigned the status of a Russian manufacturer to one of such "alien" enterprises, the German-Japanese DMG-MORI from Ulyanovsk, in the Ministry of Industry and Trade: 70% of components for their machines are produced by domestic suppliers.


Equipment production Ulyanovsk enterprise DMG-MORI

In 2013, the “Machine Tool Building” project was launched - the concept of uniting two production enterprises of the Chelyabinsk Region, St. Petersburg Polytechnic University and the engineering “Baltic Industrial Company”. Partners in cooperation have created a Russian machine brand called FORT with its own nomenclature line.

Finally, a number of domestic enterprises consolidated around the Stan holding, formed on the basis of the Sterlitamak Machine-Tool Plant. The "Stan" consistently included manufacturers from Kolomna, Ryazan, Ivanovo and Moscow.

Machine tool production: 2009-2016


However, do not flatter yourself. According to Andrei Kostenko, deputy director of the Balt-System company, which produces CNC devices, Russian enterprises in 2016 produced about 250 automated machines, and this is an extremely low figure. But again, in Russia, 2013 produced an 133 CNC machine, that is, almost two times less.

Every year the government increases funding for the industry. Thus, in 2015, additional allocations from the budget amounted to 1,5 billion rubles, in 2016 year - already 2,7 billion. The Ministry of Industry and Trade expects that eventually the volume of imports of foreign machines in 2020 will be reduced to 58% (in 2013, this figure was 88%).

In March, 2017 of the year, Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Vasily Osmakov said that in the summer, the ministry would send the government a renewed strategy for the development of the industry to 2030. The emphasis of the document will be on "the development of components and components, which are now very lacking." Osmakov also did not exclude the partial re-profiling of defense enterprises, which may be engaged in the manufacture of machine tools and their components in accordance with the new program.

Not cloudless. Who and what to criticize?

Despite the government's efforts, pessimism often circulates in machine tool circles, and the reputation of Russian enterprises remains ambiguous. A cross-survey of customers and suppliers of production equipment made it possible to understand what prevents the industry from developing more dynamically.

The interlocutor of the portal from the St. Petersburg defense plant Arsenal, who wished to remain anonymous, criticized the state of the “daughters” of the machine-tool holding “Stan”. According to him, the Ivanovo plant has not produced a new product for a long time, demonstrating the same machine at exhibitions, and the Ryazan enterprise is in a depressed state.

At the Ivanovo Machine-Tool Plant they agreed with this comment. "The plant practically does not work. We found investors, yes. Only these investors, I believe, destroyed a unique enterprise in a year and a half. From 1 December 2014, the plant launched two machines under the auspices of Stan LLC. People come to the plant, but there is no work "- told the Military. RF source at the company, which also, for obvious reasons, chose to preserve anonymity.

At the same time, the Stan Holding names United Shipbuilding Corporation its key supplier. In the press service of USC, the following question is answered to the question about the most high-tech equipment in the country: "in the light of the position of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation in terms of attributing products to products made in the Russian Federation, for example, machines of the Kolomna Heavy Machine Tool Plant".

The shipbuilders also said that in September 2016 of the year in Kolomna, a meeting took place between the chief engineers of USC and Stana, at the end of which the parties signed a joint protocol on interaction.

The press service of the "Mill" correspondent Voennoe.RF explained the criticism that the company - the most notable player in the equipment market. According to representatives of the holding, Stana’s products occupy half of the Russian machine tool industry.


Equipment production group "Stan"

In addition to management, there are other vulnerabilities. One of the interlocutors of Voennoe.RF, a machine operator-CNC operator with 20-year experience, said that he considers Russian computer-aided design systems and the rest of the “soft” to be uncompetitive.

Remains relevant and the problem of personnel. Commercial Director of Simbirsk Machine-Tool Plant Tatyana Valova notes that it will take time to bring up a new generation of qualified engineers.

“Technical universities now graduate engineers, yes. But a specialist must first come to the plant and work there for 5-6 years before he starts to understand something. Theory is one thing, and practice is quite another,” Tatiana Valova argues. Another problem she calls the habit of working young people who come to the plant to immediately demand a high salary, without having the proper experience and level. According to her, there is no other motivation, other than financial, to work in the enterprise for the younger generation.

Tatyana Valova notes that financially successful production is investing its own funds in attracting young people. However, there are not as many such enterprises in the country as we would like.

Another specialist points out that not all Russian enterprises can participate in state programs, in particular, in the machine-tool concessional lending program - too high requirements for its participants. Unfortunately, the Simbirsk Machine-Tool Plant does not meet these requirements.

At first glance, the requirements are, in general, fair, since we are talking about the financial stability of enterprises, market prospects and the production soundness of the project. But there is a vicious circle, as in the case of attracting personnel: specialists do not go to the plant, because the salary does not suit, and the salary is not raised, because there are not enough engineers to carry out serious projects. Here and there: only financially stable producers are allowed to the program, but how to achieve this stability without concessional loans? The company can get out of the stalemate only through a merger with consolidated machine-tool structures.

Other industry representatives confirm that, outside the state programs, loans to machine-tool builders are issued at a very high percentage.

“Credits? Yes, what can I say. We seem to work“ under banks ”, as if everything is specially organized precisely for this, the marketing department of the Vladimir Machine-Tool Plant said.“ The percentage depends on how long you take the loan. It is more than the average values ​​in 16% ".

The company said that even participation in R & D does not guarantee a reduction in the technological gap between manufactured products. "That's just until the bureaucratic procedures go, much of what we are going to do is becoming obsolete," representatives of the plant stressed.

Financial position of machine tool manufacturers for 2015 year (according to the information and analytical service "Kommersant Karoteka")


* The currently operating Savelovsky Machine-Tool Plant was established as a legal entity 15 September 2016. The data in the table refer to its predecessor.

** For Kovrov Electromechanical Plant, the data are for 2016 a year. In addition to machine tools, the company's product range includes mobile robotic systems and hydraulic systems.
A word to the military industrialists

In early February, an innovative Italian machine Spirit 100 worth about 6 million euros was officially launched at the Baltiysky Zavod. This single example clearly demonstrates the demand for advanced industrial equipment from the defense and shipbuilding industries. But is there a suggestion?

Most of the questions from consumers are caused by insufficient technological level of domestic machine tools. For example, the head of the marketing department of Kaliningrad "Yantar", Ilya Panteleev, noticed that not all Russian machines in their capabilities correspond to the needs of a shipbuilding plant.

"This is primarily about large and high-precision jig boring machines, which occupy a special place in the production process. Such precision, which can be achieved by Czech, German and any other equipment, domestic machines are not yet able to provide. I would like the overall level of Russian equipment a similar plan through the efforts of our machine tool builders has risen one step higher, "he said.

In turn, Igor Krasilich, director of the technical development department of the Sukhoi aircraft manufacturing company, told Voennoe.RF that he was awaiting the start of development of a domestic five-coordinate high-performance equipment with a large size of tables, high spindle speeds up to 24000 rpm and a set of options.


Five-axis milling machine manufactured by Makino MAG3.EX

At the Amur Shipbuilding Plant, in response to a question from Voennoe.RF about the “problematic positions of the machine-tool industry,” it was reported that these were CNC machine tools. As the press service of the shipyard explained, Russian equipment is not able to meet the needs of the plant due to the insufficient level of technological capabilities.

Creeping consolidation as an attempt to break the strategic impasse

“In all problematic areas, questions are being solved now. And we believe that we will solve them all the same,” Sergey Novikov, deputy chief editor of the industry magazine Stankoinstrument, shared with the editorial staff of Voennoe.RF.

The expert said that now the industry circles are actively discussing the idea of ​​creating a federal center for scientific, engineering and technological support for machine-tool construction on the basis of MSTU Stankin. It is assumed that the center will include both sectoral institutes and the producers themselves.

“Ultimately, the center’s activities should end with the release of specific advanced equipment,” Novikov said, adding that the project is still only at the conceptualization and development stage.

If we leave aside skepticism with respect to the ongoing integration processes, we can assume that we will see further integration of intellectual and productive resources into a single public-private organism, where the Ministry of Industry and Trade acts as the central nervous system.

Confirms this thesis and the statement of Denis Manturov that by the end of 2017, the company "Stan" will include five more plants.

Note that the technological gap has partially reduced over the years of government work in this direction for 10. Of course, it is not yet possible to talk about its complete overcoming. Nevertheless, a number of Russian manufacturers and structural "think tanks" have begun to master high-end component nodes and build up their own capacities and capital.


MSTU "STANKIN" at the international exhibition "Technoforum-2016"

The trend towards the recovery of the industry has begun, although the pace is far from optimal. In addition, we can assume that industry consolidation centers in the medium term will absorb the company, at the disposal of which remained at least some attractive assets.

The key trend in the machine tool industry is the slow but sure strengthening of the positions of Russian component manufacturers. “Our CNC screens and their component components, such as drives, cables and sensors, occupy the 60% of the market. Siemens and Fanuc are following us,” said the deputy director of Balt-System, Andrei Kostenko. “And recently we also mastered the software software for CNC. "

However, the specialist noted that 70-75% of the products manufactured by Balt-System are being upgraded by the defense enterprises of the old technology, and only the remaining quarter of the components are mounted on new machines.

Considering the prospects of the industry, you need to understand what the demand for machines is expected in the future. The press service of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, Voennoe.RF, said that the technical re-equipment of the main machining capacities is already in the final stages.

"Our main task is to have time to create the necessary number of productions to ensure the projected order in 2016," said Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Gleb Nikitin three years ago. It is fair to say that the "main task" is performed only partially.

On the other hand, as mentioned at the beginning of the material, Dmitry Medvedev announced a new large-scale program for the development of the military-industrial complex for the 2018-2025 years. Probably, the program will stimulate demand for machine products.

Moderately optimistic forecast given and reputable marketers BusinesStat. They analyzed the demand and needs of the Russian machine tool market. According to their estimates, in 2017, the market demand for machines will recover, and in 2018, there will be a full-fledged increase in sales by 7,9-13,6%. According to the results of 2020, sales of machine tools will amount to thousands of 20,07.

"Now there is one interesting trend in the world - to sell not machines, but the time of their work. This is done, for example, by the Japanese company Mazak. They send the machine to production, it works, and the company pays for its labor hours," he told about experimental practice Sergey Novikov, deputy head of the Stankoinstrument magazine. “At the same time, landlords remotely monitor his condition and work for maintenance if necessary. I think we will come to this too."

Voennoe.RF found out that the first attempts to shift the Japanese practice of renting machines to Russian realities have already been made. As mentioned above, “Stankoprom” leases equipment to the “Savelovsky Machine-Tool Building Plant” - the holding’s general director Dmitry Kosov told the editorial staff. It is logical to assume that in the future the integrator uses this business model not only with Tver enterprises, but also with other plants.

The above-mentioned facts, despite the problems that remain in the industry, suggest that the industry is emerging from a peak. If current trends continue, such as funding, attention from the government, purposeful work with R & D and the development of new component nodes by manufacturers, the Russian machine-tool industry will increase competitiveness by 2022 in the year and increase its output.

This does not mean that Russian machines will surpass all analogues, having conquered the global market. However, the conditions for the further development of the machine tool industry have been created - and it may well be that in five years knowledgeable interlocutors from defense enterprises will no longer respond to questions about the quality and quantity of Russian machine tools with a sad sigh.
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  1. +10
    11 March 2017 06: 32
    But what will happen in the country with nickel? Prokhorov and Potanin finally finished off its production. factories closed, workers fired. paragraph. buy from china or omeriki? ...
    1. +8
      11 March 2017 07: 38
      First, let ShPZ be built again, and the production of cutting materials. Not so, and we will import axes and shovels from China.
      1. +9
        11 March 2017 15: 43
        Quote: siberalt
        First, let ShPZ be built again, and the production of cutting materials. Not so, and we will import axes and shovels from China.

        The bureaucrat's bastard and money bags have been destroying the industry for decades, including the machine tool industry, and now they are awake! When we already have the simplest pin to grind on nothing
      2. +5
        11 March 2017 16: 29
        In order to revive mechanical engineering, it is necessary to date production. And lease the machines at a large discount. Then, the adjacent factories producing components will perk up. And then the sanctions will be strengthened and the planes on DIPs will be sharpened.
    2. +6
      11 March 2017 08: 57
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      buy from china or omeriki? ...

      China will transport its metallurgy to Russia, and everything will be hurt.
    3. +2
      11 March 2017 10: 30
      “And what will happen in the country with nickel” - As millions of tons were mined, they will continue to be mined, 2015 Norilsk Nickel reports - http://www.nornik.ru/assets/files/2016/GODOVOJ-OT
      ChET-2015_RUS_Web.pdf
    4. +3
      11 March 2017 14: 36
      Prokhorov for the presidency climbed, here he was elected, he would have taxied .. bully
  2. +17
    11 March 2017 06: 59
    In metalworking 18 years. The city is regional-Smolensk. I’m not sorry to say the name of the enterprise. Large - since the days of the USSR. The newest machine of the 80s, and the oldest one that you will not believe is still used every day, is a German grinding machine of 1935. Sad
    1. +14
      11 March 2017 10: 08
      Dear Swetliy, my mother-in-law used to work in Soyuzglavpodshipnik, and once sent her on a business trip to the Donbass steel mill. The reason - they began to crawl out of tolerances during hot rolling of sheets. She arrived, examines the rolling mill (and that was in 1986), and the mark on the rolling mill was “1865.” And you say 1935! I met such dating on gantry cranes with the Krupp stamps in the 1990s in the Baltic Fleet's main base - Baltiysk (formerly Pilau). At your machine, this second youth begins wink laughing
      1. 0
        11 March 2017 13: 09
        if it works and the worker "understands" it, then what is the question? BTZ considers the PEO as well and get the result: they got into the cost or not
      2. +6
        11 March 2017 13: 59
        and what has by and large changed since 1935? How we purchased particularly precise / powerful machine tools in Gkermania - we will continue to purchase .....
    2. +1
      11 March 2017 10: 38
      "Auto-plant" - guessed?
    3. +6
      11 March 2017 10: 51
      while such enterprises as yours eke out a semi-miserable existence, it’s stupid to talk about Russian sovereignty. We are a raw material colony, despite the attempts by the Kremlin patriots. It's a shame, but it's reality
    4. 0
      11 March 2017 14: 37
      is it really sad, we have a milling machine in 1903 on the Winch section ....
    5. +1
      11 March 2017 15: 46
      Quote: Swetliy
      In metalworking 18 years. The city is regional-Smolensk. I’m not sorry to say the name of the enterprise. Large - since the days of the USSR. The newest machine of the 80s, and the oldest one that you will not believe is still used every day, is a German grinding machine of 1935. Sad

      You need to be happy! You have at least something preserved!
      We no longer have functioning factories ...
    6. 0
      11 March 2017 22: 20
      If on a workpiece, this machine will work until it is completely worn out. smile In general, the chief mechanic should be given a medal for the proper organization of repair and maintenance of equipment.
  3. +1
    11 March 2017 07: 42
    This does not mean that Russian machines will surpass all analogues by conquering the world market.


    Here is the wrong way of thinking, they should surpass world analogues, Koreans also didn’t seriously consider any Koreans before, however please Samsung, LG.
    1. 0
      11 March 2017 09: 36
      samsungs, LG is South Korea
  4. +5
    11 March 2017 07: 56
    It is fashionable not to wait for a coordinated change until the machine tool program becomes independent, and, not as it is now, an appendage to "high technology" coordinating changes.
    1. +3
      12 March 2017 16: 28
      cardinal
  5. +2
    11 March 2017 08: 24
    I wonder who the author is, citing links. In short, as I understand it, it's time for us to give up, well, everything is against us.
    However, the conditions for the further development of machine tool industry have been created - and it may well be that through пять лет

    In five years, I would not have renounced in place of the author what would happen.
    1. +20
      11 March 2017 09: 50
      A parable is a joke in many industries such a topic now. Little button accordion but stsuka is still relevant.
      "Once Russian and German companies agreed to hold joint rowing competitions on eight-seat kayaks.
      Both teams trained hard for a long time and when both were at the peak of their form they arranged competitions, but ...
      The Germans won with an advantage of 1 km.
      After the defeat, the Russian team was demoralized.
      Top management decided to find out the cause of the failure.
      A working group was created to prepare proposals for change and restructuring in the team.
      After many weeks of research, it was found that in the German team rowed seven and one steering ...
      and in Russian - one on oars and seven helmsmen!
      The top management of the Russian company involved a consulting company to prepare and conduct the restructuring of the team.
      Having received a substantial fee and implemented indicators KPI, MTP and ISO 9001 and conducted marketing research, the consulting firm came to the conclusion:
      Too many employees in the Russian team give commands and row too few ....
      After the restructuring, the Russian team looked like this:
      - four steering ...
      - two senior steering,
      - one steering director
      - and one rower.
      In addition, a personal system for evaluating performance indicators was introduced for the rower and the range of responsibilities was expanded to increase his responsibility.
      The following year, the German team again convincingly won by a margin of 2 km.
      As a result of another defeat, the top management of the Russian company hired a consulting company to audit and evaluate the effectiveness of the team. It was decided to disband the rowing team ...
      Rower, as the main culprit of the team’s inefficiency, was dismissed; all planned investments for 2014-2015 in a new boat and oars were canceled.
      The helmsman was declared gratitude, and the money saved was paid to top management as a bonus. "
      1. +3
        11 March 2017 13: 11
        Having received a solid fee and implemented indicators KPI, MTP and ISO 9001
        ARIS forgotten.
  6. +10
    11 March 2017 10: 03
    Here they are enlarging and enlarging, rowing everything for themselves, finding reasonable explanations for this desire. And they talk about the need for money. But the larger the enterprise, the more money it needs to get things moving! This seems obvious. This means that the enlargement of production at the lower financial and economic point of its so-called "development" captures the enterprise in this pit. Or am I reasoning wrong? Guys, are there economists? But if I, a man from the street, reason sensibly, why is this incomprehensible to enlargers? Indeed, the growth of production from 1800 in 2009 to 3200 in 2016. - this is not a way out of the pit, it is negligible, and rather confirms my assumptions ?!
    But machine tool construction is a key point of an independent economy.
    1. +9
      11 March 2017 12: 40
      In fact, we need not so much money, but orders and guaranteed sales markets. I often communicate with various foreign adjusters and engineers. Now a whole mountain of new equipment has been installed, mastered. Yesterday, for example, I figured out the work of a new robot from Kawasaki. Before that, with Italians, Germans, British, Indians, Finns, etc. In general, I talked about the geography of their work. So the geography of their work is the whole world. For example, the company produces some specialized equipment and in order for it to pay off and make a profit, they need to sell and support it from Africa and Latin America to Japan and the EU. I recently asked a German engineer-adjuster - where are you going after us? He answers - first to Poland, and then to Brazil.
      That is, in order to develop production under the capitalism of complex equipment, it must be sold all over the world. A small company or an individual plant can not do it. There are no opportunities. Huge powerful corporations rule world production. Google how much the same Kawasaki produces. Accordingly, only the same powerful corporations can compete with them. These are the corporations we will have to create and maintain in difficult times. CREATE THEM PREFERENCES and help extinguish foreign competitors. Huge corporations in the modern world are the face of the country. What is South Korea? These are Samsung, LG Electronics, etc. We have examples - Gazprom, Rosneft, Novatek, Rosatom, Sberbank, Sibur.
      The same powerful corporation must be created in the machine tool industry, and then 10 years to wipe its snot until it gets stronger. Otherwise, you will have to buy imports, as large foreign corporations will crush our manufacturers. They have stupidly more forces, means and resources. hi
      1. 0
        11 March 2017 13: 13
        That is, in order to develop production under the capitalism of complex equipment, it must be sold all over the world. A small company or an individual plant can not do it. Opportunity
        THIS IS AN OTHER FOREIGN POLICY AND THE CARRIER NEEDED TO DEMONSTRATE TULA Gingerbread men and shoes.
        1. +1
          11 March 2017 13: 29
          Military force will certainly help sell your goods. But not all and not always. But I agree that sometimes it is necessary to solve international trade issues.
      2. +6
        11 March 2017 14: 42
        I involuntarily recalled Joseph Vissarionovich and the course towards the production of means of production.
      3. +1
        13 March 2017 10: 22
        But what corporations do we have mainly? Mining. What about them? Producing the final product. That is the difference.
    2. Alf
      +2
      11 March 2017 16: 44
      Quote: Galleon
      But the larger the enterprise, the more money it needs to get things moving!

      True, but not quite. A small enterprise is indeed easier to deploy to new products, but a large enterprise can give a lower cost of the product due to mass production.
      Quote: Galleon
      But if I, a man from the street, reason sensibly, why is this incomprehensible to enlargers?

      Because enlargers do not always need output, but the means for development and, accordingly, the opportunity to “master” them are more necessary for them personally.
      But seriously, according to all economic laws, a larger enterprise gives a lower cost of the product and higher mass production. In addition, a large enterprise is more resistant to all kinds of crises due to a wider range of products.
    3. 0
      17 March 2017 17: 34
      But the larger the enterprise, the more money it needs to get things moving! This seems obvious.

      It YOU think that it is necessary to develop, and THEY think that it is necessary to master.
  7. +4
    11 March 2017 12: 01
    Catch up and overtake. Already passed it. Perhaps it makes sense to do tight 3D printing. This technology has a great future. And investing limited resources yesterday is not the best option.
    1. +3
      11 March 2017 17: 34
      Better yet, in large CNC 3D machining machines.
  8. +3
    11 March 2017 12: 55
    Quote: Expelling Liberoids
    It is fashionable not to wait for a coordinated change until the machine tool program becomes independent, and, not as it is now, an appendage to "high technology" coordinating changes.

    And now everything is not possible ... to wait, to work ... only to poke into one’s pockets .. sad
  9. +4
    11 March 2017 13: 50
    should disappoint patriots, nothing good will come of this venture, we won’t let out machines of the same level as western ones! or we will, but the price will be such that they will be bought if they are forbidden to buy imported machines, I also want to add about the fact that we will have a very small assortment !!
    I will explain why, I have such an opinion. And it arose after I read that the state will be engaged in this, all this is the end. Here is an official sitting in his office, he does not know which machines are needed, which production. And if the manufacturer makes a mistake with the machine, who will be responsible for the money spent, if the official did everything according to the instructions. And who needs what kind of machines. How to determine? or will they build billions to produce defense machines?
    The situation can be represented as follows: Music from the program "Time" sounds, it is shown how the government set the task of producing our machines. Institutions are created that develop machines, then factories are created, and happy workers are shown. Western consultants and managers are invited for big money. They show the wise slightly tired directors of the factories that comply with government decrees, and at the exit we see the MACHINE, which is in production, but after the filmmakers leave, it will be stopped and will be done on imported machines. And over time, commentators on VO will be indignant at the scale of theft, and low wages of workers and offer cool measures.
    Where the state is present, there will certainly be theft and not production efficiency. Because it’s nobody’s money, and most importantly, follow the instructions from above. I have associations with Vesta, I swelled a lot of money, and at the exit, a car that, if you remove protective duties, is not competitive, and will be on the conveyor for another 30 years, until the next emergency
    something is the last time, I don’t see bright prospects in the vision of the future of our country, the state regulates everything and everything, but at the same time relieves itself of social obligations. This is not good.
    Western machine tool companies are cutting it here. and they call to be equal to them, silent about the fact that these are private firms, and we plan to compete with them at the expense of the state, that is, the taxpayer, that is me !!! our state does not have enough money to compete with the effective business of Western companies !!!
    1. +2
      11 March 2017 17: 42
      It remains only to localize the production of foreign machine tools on its territory.
    2. +3
      12 March 2017 07: 15
      Western machine tool companies are cutting it here. and urge to be equal to them, silent about the fact that these are private firms,

      If you are so well versed in the topic, you should know that all large companies in the west are public - i.e. practically, shareholders have nothing to do with operational management.
      Management rules everything.
      Now please explain what will change if the state has a 100% stake in a public company? What will not be the same management managed?
      There is no need to try to explain complex processes with simple reasons - to you that the "grabbing" of the 90s was not enough for an example. Right now, smart management will come and we will live well under capitalism, we just need to privatize everything - so what are the results? No, someone really healed royally - but for some reason there were very few of them, and due to the collapse and sale of the "Soviet legacy".
      In 2009, the "private" American iconic company General Motors almost went bankrupt. The American and Canadian government had to save her for taxpayer money. Although a private enterprise is always definitely "at your own peril and risk."

      Maybe the whole thing is still in people and the general moral situation in the country?
  10. +2
    11 March 2017 17: 52
    Quote: g1v2
    In fact, we need not so much money, but orders and guaranteed sales markets. I often communicate with various foreign adjusters and engineers. Now a whole mountain of new equipment has been installed, mastered. Yesterday, for example, I figured out the work of a new robot from Kawasaki. Before that, with Italians, Germans, British, Indians, Finns, etc. In general, I talked about the geography of their work. So the geography of their work is the whole world. For example, the company produces some specialized equipment and in order for it to pay off and make a profit, they need to sell and support it from Africa and Latin America to Japan and the EU. I recently asked a German engineer-adjuster - where are you going after us? He answers - first to Poland, and then to Brazil.
    That is, in order to develop production under the capitalism of complex equipment, it must be sold all over the world. A small company or an individual plant can not do it. There are no opportunities. Huge powerful corporations rule world production. Google how much the same Kawasaki produces. Accordingly, only the same powerful corporations can compete with them. These are the corporations we will have to create and maintain in difficult times. CREATE THEM PREFERENCES and help extinguish foreign competitors. Huge corporations in the modern world are the face of the country. What is South Korea? These are Samsung, LG Electronics, etc. We have examples - Gazprom, Rosneft, Novatek, Rosatom, Sberbank, Sibur.
    The same powerful corporation must be created in the machine tool industry, and then 10 years to wipe its snot until it gets stronger. Otherwise, you will have to buy imports, as large foreign corporations will crush our manufacturers. They have stupidly more forces, means and resources. hi

    Thought is good. But you yourself answered why nothing will come of machine tool construction. For the development of such a complex and expensive direction of the economy, markets for products are needed. The entire niche is already taken. There are no such volumes in Russia. A waste of limited resources of the country. It’s better to direct resources to new technologies, rather than trying to catch up with yesterday. If you recall the history, then the USSR, and then Russia, were leaders in those technologies where they started first - nuclear energy, aircraft construction, the space rocket industry. And to solve current problems, you can create metalworking centers. In these centers to produce parts on imported, expensive machines for orders of different factories.
    1. +2
      11 March 2017 19: 26
      Do you also work in the defense industry on imports? So they will impose an embargo and that's all, they sailed ... what
  11. +2
    11 March 2017 17: 57
    (The above facts, despite the problems remaining in the industry, allow us to talk about the industry coming out of its peak.)

    To say that it is necessary is to say nothing. For the country it is VERY NECESSARY. Almost all sectors of the country's economy depend on the development of precision machine tools. The article is correct, but with a 10-year delay. Yes
  12. +1
    11 March 2017 20: 08
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Do you also work in the defense industry on imports? So they will impose an embargo and that's all, they sailed ... what

    Theoretically can enter. But. No, the precision engineering market is huge to lose a customer. There will be workarounds. And the existing machines must be protected, carefully operated. For this, special metalworking centers are needed, where specialists of the highest qualification should work. DO NOT get in a few years to go the way and carry out work that other countries have spent decades and billions of dollars. We must move on to a new technological structure.
    1. +1
      11 March 2017 23: 17
      Theoretically can enter. But. No, the precision engineering market is huge to lose a customer. There will be workarounds.

      All modern machines can be remotely controlled. And at hour X they can be turned off. Businessmen do not trample against governments.
      1. 0
        11 March 2017 23: 28
        Quote: glory1974
        all modern machines can be remotely controlled ...

        - by the power of thought? Telepathy? Or what?

        Quote: glory1974
        And at hour X they can be turned off

        - yeah ... like hacking ... only the machines for this should be connected to the Internet at least wink

        So be afraid, no one will disable anything. Even "at the hour of CE" laughing
        1. +1
          12 March 2017 13: 08
          only machines for this must be connected to the Internet at least

          you are absolutely right. They are connected to the Internet and can be hacked.
          Option No.2. if the machine is not connected to the Internet, then once a year a “service” service is carried out, during which the company representative updates the program, which allows you to work until the next service. If service is refused, the machine stops working.
  13. +3
    11 March 2017 22: 08
    Machine-tools should be their-Russian, in Russia! And they must be made. Designed and developed by Russian engineers-Kulibins in Russia from Russian components, Russian resources and on the territory of Russia. Otherwise, Russian, Russia, they will be left behind so much that they can’t do anything.
    But buying someone else’s will not give anything good. The first is the fall of the Russian mind-invention will be. The second sanctions will be imposed-and nothing-no machines to Russia-will not be sold and no technology. What Russia will make a rocket, will smash, ship, submarine, tank, automatic machine
    y, house and everything else? And then what, then with your bare hands then take Russia!
    1. 0
      11 March 2017 23: 26
      Sanctions are a way to push goods in black, with maximum benefit for themselves.
      1. +1
        12 March 2017 02: 40
        Quote: Vadim237
        Sanctions are a way to push goods in black, with maximum benefit for themselves.

        Pushing black in the absence of sanctions was no less profitable, but plus it was also safer ...
    2. 0
      8 January 2018 09: 12
      it’s especially “painful and insulting” for the machine tool building of the state, after watching the documentary film “The Big Azimuth Telescope” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aoO8Mn5CC0
      Hair stands on end from what was and what was lost ...
  14. 0
    12 March 2017 01: 25
    Recently, it has become boring to read Topvar - it’s not an article, it’s just intentions. And in fact, the Montana jerseys are akin to a monthly salary. :) Hello 80s
  15. +6
    13 March 2017 07: 03
    What do machine tool builders do?
    One is on a shit-cart, the other is a sysadmin, the third is a speculator. At the factories, the salary is - do not marry, do not have children, eat fried eggs with bread and water (not enough for milk). So what? A young, competent specialist to live like this? “Yes, you failed, native industry, if you do not need us!” They say and are looking for at least something where they can survive.
    Patriotism, it is good for deputies with incomes under a million per month. To officials ... Whatever a crook, then - a patriot! Seen enough of such bosses. They sold the last state reserve to China and are trembling so that their subordinates (in the state corporation) must vote for EP (otherwise, they will be given larger swindlers by cap). So everything turns. Hand washes a hand. Money does not flow into the domestic industry, but into the banks of the Fed and the oligarchs, i.e. also in the Fed.
    And that's it - catching up. The breakthrough is zero. Maybe in parallel to think about new ways of processing materials or about their manufacture. For the first case, printers are made to produce all-sized and multi-material. Then cutting materials ... Bearings. It is not possible to replace ball, roller with new ways and methods? Etc.
    Catching up will always be behind.
  16. 0
    14 March 2017 11: 28
    CNC machines - I in 1997 graduated from Sumy Engineering College with a degree in Metal Processing on CNC Machines and Automatic Lines. Even then, everyone knew that this was the end. We were taught, and well taught. But it was already the last century. That all CNC lathes must have circular interpolation, and the CNC milling machines still operate on punched tape. And how to tie the CPU machines to the plan, and even to the plan - even Baba (woman) - on a revolving machine (He still printed rubles in Makhno)

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