Nicholas II had no chance to retain power?

Armed uprising

The turning point of the February revolution was the transition of February 27 (March 12) 1917 of the year to the side of the demonstrators of the Petrograd garrison, after which the rallies turned into an armed uprising. The historian Richard Pipes wrote: “It is impossible to understand what happened [in February-March 1917] without taking into account the composition and conditions of detention of the Petrograd garrison. The garrison consisted, in fact, of recruits and retirees, enrolled in the replenishment of the reserve battalions of guards regiments that had gone to the front, who were stationed in peacetime in Petrograd. Before being sent to the front, they had to undergo general military training for several weeks. The number of training units formed for this purpose exceeded any permissible rate: in some reserve companies there were more than 1000 soldiers, and battalions of 12-15 thousand people met; A total of 160 thousand soldiers were crammed into barracks designed for 20 thousands ”(R. Pipes.“ Russian Revolution ”).

The mutiny of the reserve battalion of the Volynsky regiment led by the senior non-commissioned officer T. I. Kirpichnikov was the first to revolt. Interestingly, the Life Guards Volyn Regiment was one of the most disciplined in the army. He stood out even against the background of other regiments of the 3-th Guards Infantry Division - famous for its "convict" discipline. Iron discipline in the soldiers of the 3 Guards forged at every turn. To do this, they sought from them an exemplary appearance, perfect drill training and strict observance of internal order. Used informal methods, like massacre. The instigator of the rebellion itself, the senior non-commissioned officer Timofey Ivanovich Kirpichnikov, had the corresponding nickname “Mordoboy”. The Volynsky regiment retained discipline at the front and fought, not paying attention to death. "Discipline was visible in everything and manifested itself at every turn," - so, according to the recollections of the then regiment commander, it was still at the beginning of 1917. And in the training team non-commissioned officers were trained, those who had to teach the soldiers order themselves.

Kirpichnikova, on the night of February 26, the head of the training team, staff captain I. S. Lashkevich appointed the 1-th company as sergeant-major (a few days before, two companies had been formed from the ranks of the main training team to suppress possible unrest). 24 - February 26 both companies dispersed protesters on Znamenskaya Square. According to Kirpichnikov’s later narrated story, he slowly ordered the soldiers to target over their heads, and on the night of 26, he suggested that both mouths of both men would not shoot at all. In the evening, 26-th convened platoon and division commanders of the main training team and suggested to refuse altogether to pacify the riots. Those agreed and instructed their soldiers. And in the morning of February 27, the team built for Lashkevich’s arrival defiantly and grossly violated discipline. The rebels refused to follow orders from Lashkevich, and then killed him. After the assassination of the commander Kirpichnikov, I was persuaded to join the main training team and the noncoms of the training teams. Then the 4-i company joined them.

Why did the rebellion raise one of the most selective units of the Russian army? The answer is in the general position of the imperial army to the beginning of 1917 of the year. Almost all of the senior servicemen of the Volynsky regiment died in the 1916 year. The battles of the 1916 campaign of the year, including the famous Brusilovsky breakthrough, finally exhausted the cadre core of the imperial army. By the beginning of 1917, the old staff non-commissioned officers were extremely few. As already noted before, The cadre army of Russia, which was one of the main pillars of the empire, and with which the revolution of 1905-1907 was suppressed, bled to death on the battlefields of the First World War. As the best minds of the empire warned, it was impossible for Russia to enter a big European war. The composition of the Russian army has changed in a radical way. Old cadres (officers and unters), loyal to the throne and the oath, mostly died. The army was joined by millions of peasants who received weapon, but did not see any point in the war, and thousands of intellectuals, basically their liberal, which traditionally disliked the royal regime. And the higher generals, who were supposed to defend the empire and autocracy, decided that the king would not lead the country to victory, so it must be eliminated by supporting the conspiracy. In addition, many generals hoped to seriously improve their position in the country, "make a career." As a result, the army, from the pillars of the empire, itself became a source of distemper and chaos, it was necessary only to ignite the fuse (to destabilize the capital), so that Russia's systemic crisis turned into a general collapse.

All this was reflected in the Volyn regiment. The February "Volyn" were recruits who served only a few weeks and the soldiers in full volume and most of the noncoms of the reserve battalion did not experience. Almost all the old servicemen died. In addition, some recruits had a front-line past. In the reserve battalion, they were already the second time. In the interim were the front and the wound. They went through a wild meat grinder of the offensive battles of the summer and autumn of 1916, when the Russian armies tried to break through the Austro-German defense and literally bled to death, fulfilling the "Allied duty." Those who went through these terrible battles no longer feared God or the devil, and they did not want to return to the front. The soldiers did not see the point in the war, the “straits” and Galicia had no meaning for them. The war, despite the patriotic propaganda, was imperialistic, not domestic. Russia fought for the interests of Britain and France, the ruling elite, which dragged the people into slaughter. Obviously, the soldiers, with their peasant wit, understood all this. Thus, the soldiers who went through the front and the survivors were not afraid to rebel, there will not be more terrible than the front line!

In addition, the soldiers, like other rebels, noticed the inaction of the authorities. Nicholas II was removed from the capital, did not possess the fullness of information and considered the excitement "nonsense." Top management in Petrograd was paralyzed, lacking the will and determination, or participating in a conspiracy of the upper classes. Seeing that there was no decisive answer, several dozen passionaries like Kirpichnikova mutinied, and ensured the success of the uprising.

Raising the rebellion and killing the officers, Kirpichnikov and his comrades understood that there was nothing left to lose and they tried to involve as many other soldiers as possible in the riot. Kirpichnikov and his rebellious team moved to the Parade to raise the reserve battalions of the Life Guards of the Transfiguration and the Life Guards of the Lithuanian regiments stationed in the Tauride Barracks. Here, too, were their brickmen - senior non-commissioned officer Fyodor Kruglov raised the 4 company of the reserve battalion of Preobrazhensky men. Turning to the Preobrazhenskaya, Kirpichnikov raised a spare company of the Life Guards Saperny regiment. At the corner of Kirochnoi and Znamenskaya, the rebels rebelled the 6-th reserve sapper battalion, killing its commander, Colonel V.K. von Goering. Further along Kirochnaya, on the corner of Nadezhdinskaya, the Petrograd Gendarme Division was quartered. The gendarmes were brought to the street, followed by the junkers of the Petrograd school of warrant officers of the engineering troops located diagonally. “Well, guys, now the work has gone!” Said Kirpichnikov with relief. In the second half of the day, the Semenovsky and Izmailovsky regiments joined the uprising. By evening, about 67, thousands of soldiers of the Petrograd garrison, rebelled.

It was a landslide. Thousands of rebellious soldiers joined the workers rally. The officers were killed or fled. The police could not stop the uprising, the police were beaten or shot. Outposts that still held back protesters were crushed or joined the rebels. General Khabalov tried to organize resistance to the rebellion, forming under the command of Colonel Alexander Kutepov, who was one of the few officers who actively spoke out in support of the king during the February Revolution, a consolidated force of up to 1 thousand people. However, due to the enormous numerical superiority of the rebel soldiers, the detachment was quickly blocked and dispersed.

According to the tradition of all revolutions, they smashed prisons, from which the crowd freed the prisoners, which automatically increased the chaos in the streets. Gathered on the Liteiny Avenue set fire to the building of the District Court (Shpalernaya, 23). The rebels seized the investigative prison adjacent to the courthouse - the Pre-Trial Detention Center (Shpalerka DPR) on Shpalernaya Street, 25. On the same day, in the morning, the insurgent soldiers of the Keksgolmsky regiment and the workers of the Putilov factory took another prison by storm - the Lithuanian castle (on the bank of the Kryukov Canal), also released the prisoners, and set the building on fire. The rebels released the prisoners and the largest Petrograd prison "Kresty", which contained about two thousand people. Looting and looting began to spread throughout the city.

Among the released prisoners were KA Gvozdev, MI Broydo, B. O. Bogdanov, and other Menshevik-defencists - members of the Working Group of the Central Military Industrial Committee, arrested in late January 1917 for organizing a demonstration in support of the State thoughts. The crowd enthusiastically welcomed them as real revolutionary heroes. They said that now the main task of the rebels was to support the State Duma, led a huge mass of soldiers and workers to the Tauride Palace - the residence of the State Duma.

In 14.00, the soldiers occupied the Tauride Palace. The deputies found themselves in a difficult situation - on the one hand, they were already dismissed by the king, on the other, they were surrounded by a revolutionary crowd, who saw in them an alternative center for the tsarist government. As a result, the deputies continued the meeting in the form of “private meetings”, the results of which created the Provisional Committee of the State Duma - “The Committee of the State Duma to establish order in St. Petersburg and to communicate with institutions and persons”. The Committee was composed of the Octobrist M. V. Rodzianko, appointed chairman, members of the Progressive Bloc V. V. Shulgin, P. N. Milyukov and some others, as well as the Menshevik N. S. Chkheidze and the "Trudovik" A. F. Kerensky. In the evening, the Provisional Committee of the State Duma announced that it was taking power into its own hands.

On the same day, the bureau of the Central Committee of the RSDLP published a manifesto “To all citizens of Russia”. It put forward demands for the establishment of a democratic republic, the introduction of the 8-hour working day, the confiscation of landlords' lands and the end of the imperialist war. Leaders of the Menshevik faction in the State Duma, representatives of soldiers and workers, “socialists”, journalists announced in the Tauride Palace the creation of the Interim Executive Committee of the Petrograd Soviet, which included K. A. Gvozdev, B. O. Bogdanov (Mensheviks, leaders of the TsVPK working group) , N. S. Chkheidze, M. I. Skobelev (State Duma deputies from the Menshevik faction), N. Yu. Kapelinsky, K. S. Grinevich (Menshevik-internationalists), N. D. Sokolov, G. M. Erlich.

Thus, new centers of power appeared in the capital. As the cadet leader P. N. Milyukov later wrote, “the intervention of the State Duma gave the street and military movement a center, gave it a banner and a slogan, and thus turned the uprising into a revolution that ended with the overthrow of the old regime and dynasty.” The conspiratorial feudalists led in many respects a spontaneous popular protest and soldiers' insurrection in order to realize their main goal — to liquidate autocracy.

In the second half of the day, the insurgent soldiers captured the Kshesinskaya mansion, the Kronverksky arsenal, the Arsenal, the Main Post Office, the telegraph, railway stations, bridges, etc. were also occupied. The Vasileostrovsky district and the Admiralty unit remained under the control of the authorities. The uprising had already begun to spread beyond Petrograd. The First machine-gun reserve regiment in Oranienbaum rebelled and, after killing 12 of its officers, voluntarily moved to Petrograd through Martyshkino, Peterhof and Strelna, attaching a number of units to the road. The crowd burned down the house of the minister of the imperial court, VB Fredericks, as "German." In the evening, the Petrograd Security Division was defeated.

16.00 hosted the last meeting of the tsarist government in the Mariinsky Palace. It was decided to send a telegram to Nikolai Aleksandrovich with a proposal to dissolve the Council of Ministers and create a “responsible ministry”. The head of the government, Golitsyn, recommended imposing martial law and appointing a popular general with combat experience in charge of security. The government also dismissed Interior Minister Protopopov as causing particular irritation to the opposition. In reality, this led only to even greater paralysis of the authorities - during the mass uprising in the capital, the supporters of the monarch were left without the Minister of the Interior at all. In the evening, the members of the Council of Ministers, without waiting for the answer of the monarch, dispersed, and the tsarist government virtually ceased to exist.

The last barrier remains - autocratic power. How will the king act under conditions of a large-scale armed uprising? In 19.00, the situation in Petrograd was again reported to Tsar Nicholas II, who stated that he was postponing all changes in the government until returning to Tsarskoye Selo. General Alekseev suggested that a consolidated detachment headed by a commander with extraordinary powers be sent there to restore calm in the capital. The emperor ordered the allocation of one infantry brigade and a cavalry brigade from the Northern and Western fronts, appointing N. I. Ivanova as the head of the adjutant general. Nicholas II ordered him to head at the head of the St. George battalion (guarding the headquarters) to Tsarskoye Selo to ensure the safety of the imperial family, and then, as the new commander of the Petrograd military district, take command of the troops that are supposed to be redeployed for him from the front. When the remnants of the units of the Moscow garrison loyal to the government capitulated, preparations began for a military operation against Petrograd. The total number of forces allocated to participate in the "punitive expedition" reached 40-50 thousand soldiers. Under the most favorable circumstances, the strike force near Petrograd could have been assembled by March 3. It is difficult to predict how events would develop, decide Nikolai to fight. However, apparently, units from the front line had good chances in the fight against the rebel troops (deprived of experienced commanders), who in the conditions of the uprising became an armed crowd rather than a well-organized and disciplined force. True, much blood could not be avoided.

In Petrograd, State Duma Chairman Rodzianko began to convince Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich, younger brother of Nicholas II, to assume the dictatorial powers within Petrograd, dispatch the government and ask the tsar to bestow the responsible ministry. In 20.00, the idea was supported by the Prime Minister of the tsarist government, Prince Golitsyn. At first, Mikhail Alexandrovich refused, but in the end at night he sent the Tsar a telegram stating: “For immediate reassurance of the movement that accepted large dimensions, it is necessary to dismiss the entire council of ministers and entrust the formation of a new ministry to Prince Lvov as a person respected in wide circles”.

00: 55 received a telegram from General Khabalov, commander of the Petrograd Military District: “Please report to His Imperial Majesty that I could not fulfill the command to restore order in the capital. Most of the units, one after the other, reversed their duty, refusing to fight against the rebels. Other units fraternized with the rebels and turned their weapons against the troops loyal to His Majesty. Those who remained faithful to duty fought all day against the rebels, suffering heavy losses. By evening, the rebels seized most of the capital. Small parts of different regiments, strapped at the Winter Palace under the command of General Zankevich, will continue to take the oath, with which I will continue the struggle. ”

The revolt of a huge capital garrison (an entire army), supported by the workers and the liberal public, became a serious challenge for the tsarist regime. but the situation was not hopeless. The Supreme Commander Nicholas II was still in possession of the multimillion armed forces. The generals, until Nicholas abdicated the throne, generally complied with the established order. And the country in this situation took the side of the winner. Obviously, if a man with the character of Napoleon were in Nicholas's place, the autocracy would have a chance to survive, introducing a real martial law, and cruelly suppressing the February liberals and revolutionaries.

To be continued ...

Comments

[Cat]

Nicholas II was removed from the capital, did not possess completeness of information and considered the unrest “nonsense”.

The classic question of history is "who is to blame and why it turned out like this, and not otherwise." For 100 years, we have been fed "cranberries." Sour or sweet is up to you to decide.
My purely personal opinion on the question "who d .... to?" the unequivocal answer is the emperor of all Russia, Nicholas II.
Manarshya authority involves two main principles:
One-man management.
And responsibility for the state.
With both of our last king did not cope. The verdict is guilty!

[venaya]

Quote: Kotischa

Manarshya authority involves two main principles:
One-man management.
And responsibility for the state.

All these provisions would be true in the conditions of an absolute monarchy. After the events of 1905-1907, absolutism was thoroughly undermined, the monarch had less power than Gorbachev in 1991. And now they are trying to impose on us the opinion that only M. Gorbachev, and even Yeltsin with Kravchuk and possibly Shushkevich, are to blame for the collapse of our country. But the scheme of defeating the country, if you look a little from the side, and very, very much like one another. Maybe we will depart nevertheless from the endlessly imposed dies on us, try to consider the problem a little deeper, only then it will be possible to continue not to make such mistakes, not to "step on the same rake."

[vladimirZ]

Now I am reading the book of L. Trotsky, “The History of the Russian Revolution,” and I find much similar to the article written by the author A. Samsonov.
When writing such historical materials, the author is kindly requested to give links to sources and indicate their authors. Otherwise, it looks like plagiarism.

[Diana Ilyina]

venaya Today, 07:19 ↑ New
Quote: Kotischa
And now they are trying to impose on us the opinion that only M. Gorbachev is to blame for the collapse of our country.

Isn’t that so? It was Gorbachev who came to power who organized the "perestroika" and the total deficit. More precisely, the deficit began during the last years of Brezhnev’s reign. But it was an artificial shortage. Brezhnev and his aging team had little to decide, the underground bigwigs began to raise their heads, the nomenclature felt the weakness of the central government and began to get out of control. It was from their submission that the country crawled to collapse, it was they who created an artificial deficit, which actually did not exist. It was Gorbachev who personally launched the mechanism of the collapse of the country. If we look for the guilty besides Gorbachev, then these are the people who allowed him to power.
Let's look at a simple example. There is a flourishing enterprise. This enterprise has a director who competently conducts business, with professional staff selected and the entire enterprise management chain debugged. And then suddenly the director died, died or became seriously ill, and he can no longer lead. And now a young "effective manager" appears at the enterprise instead of the director. And begins to steer right and left. He begins to remove managerial personnel who are told to him that this is impossible, this will lead to a crisis. As a result, the company goes bankrupt, people remain on the street with nothing. Who is to blame? The people who worked there? And if we assume that this "efficient" manager didn’t ruin the enterprise because of his stupidity, but for the money received from a competitor’s company?
So your logic is no good. The leader is ALWAYS to blame, because the fate of the team he leads depends on his action / inaction! Say it's primitive? Nothing like this. Have you ever run anyone yourself? Think about this before claiming that not only the “director" is to blame ...!
The same applies to the bloody Nicholas. Who brought the country to the first revolution? Who is to blame for their loss of sole power? Janitor Uncle Vasya? Nicholas brought the country to collapse with his own hands! For which he paid, and rightly so. It was he who was to blame for all the consequences of the collapse of Russia and the civil war, just as Gorbachev was to blame for all the conflicts in the post-Soviet space!

[Cat]

Diana is not my quote!
Regards Kotische!

[Diana Ilyina]

Kitty Today, 09:41 ↑
Diana is not my quote!
Regards Kotische!

I basically understood it! Mutually, with respect!

Sorry, I just watched that the remainder of your message remained there. I answered the quote venaya ... I just did not completely delete your post to which he replied.

[apro]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Isn’t that so? It was Gorbachev who came to power who organized the "perestroika" and the total deficit.

Not so Diana, it’s hunchbacked like a cherry on a cake, the final stage, and before that there was a hidden job preparing the people for change, raising an aversion to the scoop.

[Monarchist]

Kamrad Anpo, perhaps you are right: the "preparatory work" began back in 1950-1952, when you removed: Abakumov, Vlasov, "removed Stalin" (90% sure that "faithful comrades-in-arms" accelerated Stalin's death), 1956 "faithful Leninists restored the socialist legitimacy, "and then all subsequent leaders continued to" dig up. " Yu. V. They did not give a chance to stop the process.

[venaya]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Nicholas brought the country to collapse with his own hands! ... just as Gorbachev is to blame

Thanks for the comment. I read and understood that you are clearly manifesting a monarchist upbringing. Personally, in the 91st year I got the impression that I myself was to blame for something, and therefore now on this site. Well this turns out: let's choose a scapegoat, and we ourselves will sow a little sour, without worrying about the future. So to speak: "The giraffe is big - he knows better!"- what can I say, a convenient position, don’t mess up. Then why all this whole series of articles? Nothing depends on you and me, and not figs go there. Unfortunately, that’s how you can understand your post. it’s the opposite — to discover and reveal the true causes of what is happening, that then, now, to draw the necessary conclusions so that you never, to the best of your ability, even allow close proximity to allow anything like that, but for this you only need her thing — to try to learn how to think independently. with the fact that Nicholas II was not worthy of such a high post in the state (after all, all the relatives wanted to see Michael as emperor, only Alexander III "died at the wrong time", not to see it of his own free will.) Yes, there are also inconsistencies with Gorbachev - a mark on the forehead because it also speaks of its genetic problems. And now try to answer for yourself: who exactly managed to “choose” them as heads of state? The answer to this question only half gives answers to the endlessly arising general questions.

[Cat]

Who chose? Nicholas II, well, apparently the Lord God for our sins! I can throw more versions - a wagon and a small cart. The most obvious mom gave birth! Power is the ability and ability of one individual to influence the behavior of another individual. Somewhere like that. Individuals can be replaced by subjects to prescribe goals, objectives, methods, but this does not change the essence. In this case, we can only regret that in the soul of the last king there lived a good family man, and not an evil clerk of the lower level. Who would sit and competitors, and would raise the desk. And the most “smart” would be chopped on the fly so that he wouldn’t get a seatpost. I don’t even remember about people of the level of Alexander III, Stalin and Catherine II.
Who chose? Gorbachev, here you can name them the whole nomenclature!
Although most of them run and scream, we warned you!
Is society to blame?
Yes, to blame! To be able to anticipate and be able to defend your interests is necessary, sorry for taftology, you must be able to!
About 600 people suffered the largest US losses during the years of the Civil War, more than during the Second World War. Russia is no exception. You must be able to forgive, exhale deeply and move on, but remember the lesson! I repeat once again - remember the lesson !!!

[Monarchist]

Kamrad Kotische, you are absolutely right in saying that you need to "remember a lesson" so as not to step on the same rake for you.
By the way, in childhood, I am from the peasants and now I live not in the city, I shot and stepped on a rag, and the grip, the handle of the hoe, starved me

[RUSS]

Quote: Monarchist

he shot and stepped on a rag, and the grip, the stalk of a hoe, starved me

what nonsense? arbitrary set of words?

[Cat]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: Monarchist

he shot and stepped on a rag, and the grip, the stalk of a hoe, starved me

what nonsense? arbitrary set of words?

Ah city - city ........ where is your imagination?
By the way, sometimes stepping on a chopper in the barn, a neighbor’s hoe stalk flies between his legs! The principle of leverage has not yet been canceled !!! Physics - Grade 7. Archimedes "Give me a lever, I will turn the earth"!
Two solutions:
1. Tidy up the barn.
2. Burn the barn.
Everything is the same in big politics!

[RUSS]

Quote: Kotischa

By the way, sometimes stepping on a chopper in the barn, a neighbor’s hoe stalk flies between his legs!

Well, this is clear, but how then to explain

Quote: Monarchist

shot

What does "shot" mean?

[Cat]

Came, hit the target!

[Diana Ilyina]

venaya Today, 11:01 ↑
Thanks for the comment. I read and understood that you are clearly manifesting a monarchist upbringing.

What a news? By whom, but I have never been called a monarchist ... For many on this site, this will be a revelation. I wonder where from me, whose grandfather is a communist to the marrow of bones, the monarchical upbringing came from. The serfs' nannies were somehow never born to me.

My task is actually the opposite - to detect and identify the true causes of what is happening

Do you think that before the revolution there were no people who would not see where everything was going? Naive... From the fact that you will at least a thousand times understand the reasons for what is happening, absolutely nothing will change.

But all that is needed for this is just her thing - to try to learn how to think independently.

Wow, but I didn’t know. By the way the word "tryыvat "correctly spelled tryоvat! And then you learn to think, but correctly state ...

Personally, in the 91st year I got the impression that I myself was to blame for something

Sorry!

Now try to answer for yourself: who exactly managed to “choose” them as heads of state?

I didn’t know that our emperor has an elected position ... You for me have "discovered" new milestones in our history ... And Gorbachev did not hold the “election”. Or did I oversleep the elections when his secretary general was "elected" ?!

Everything is clear with you, you are our thinker. I gave you a concrete example of an enterprise. You can understand the causes and consequences of the processes as much as you like, but if your leader is either a fool or a traitor, then you can not do anything about it. In the first case, you will be fired, because stupid people do not like those who are smarter than them. And in the second case, you will be killed so as not to interfere with the execution of the order for which it is well paid! Something like this!

If you really, in your naivety, believe that anything depends on you, except for choosing where and how you should live, then accept my condolences.

[Monarchist]

"not of their own free will" unfortunately, the sovereign Alexander Alexandrovich, like the vast majority of men, periodically "laid", and the nature of the spare liver did not provide.

[bober1982]

As for the "mortgaged" (Alexander III), you got excited, this is a favorite topic of the liberal public, and the liver has nothing to do with it

[Monarchist]

Diana, you gave an example with a stupid leader, to accuse Nikolai, well let your "effective manager" be. Typically, such menenders always work as a team (one physically cannot be in time everywhere), which means that in fairness the entire manager team must answer. The exception is when the manager consciously orders to surrender

[Dart2027]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

It was Gorbachev who came to power who organized the "perestroika" and the total deficit. More precisely, the deficit began during the last years of Brezhnev’s reign. But it was an artificial shortage.

If Gorbachev did not have the support of most of the ruling party bonzes, then he would be devoured and no bones left. Perhaps he really was the main, but not the only one.

[Cat]

All these provisions would be true in the conditions of an absolute monarchy. After the events of 1905-1907, absolutism was thoroughly undermined, the monarch had less power than Gorbachev in 1991. And now they are trying to impose on us the opinion that only M. Gorbachev, and even Yeltsin with Kravchuk and possibly Shushkevich, are to blame for the collapse of our country.

We all know the author of the lines "the tops cannot, the lower classes do not want"!
Nicholas II for almost two decades of rule had the opportunity to influence and govern the state. The events of 1905-1907 only emphasized the weakness of the ruling house and the emperor personally. The “tops” did not manage to be able to rule for the good of their patronymic, and therefore the “lower classes” did not want to play in the “Wishlist of the Tsar’s circle”. Moreover, the myth of the "good father-king" among the people of Nicholas killed both himself and his entourage. Khodynka, January 9th! The stamp in the "passport" was put to him by people awarding them with the name "bloody". Plunging his country into the abyss of two wars, for the sake of "his own and others' Wishlist" he received in response "revolution".
To be honest, looking back at the history of our country, in any confusion we received false lords from Dmitriev to Petrov. During the civil years, not one of the representatives of the Romanov surname himself personally raised the flag of "Unified and Indivisible"! Apparently it couldn’t happen! And the people no longer accepted the king as their priest!
After all, if there was a second Pugachev !?

[RUSS]

Quote: Kotischa

Khodynka "," January 9 "! The people in the" passport "stamped him with the name" bloody ".

In connection with the events on Khodynka and on January 9, 1905, he was nicknamed by the radical opposition “Nikolai the Bloody” with such a nickname figured in Soviet popular historiography.
The fierce opposition called the "bloody" king, and not the people,
And for example, the Caucasian highlanders who served in the Caucasian native equestrian division of the imperial army, called Sovereign Nicholas II “White Padishah”, thereby showing their respect and devotion to the Russian emperor.

[ava09]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Kotischa
Manarshya authority involves two main principles:
One-man management.
And responsibility for the state.
All these provisions would be true in the conditions of an absolute monarchy. After the events of 1905-1907, absolutism was thoroughly undermined, the monarch had less power than Gorbachev in 1991.

The fact of the matter is that the Path that the simple man and the monarch take both lead to the final result. If the monarch spent Power during his mediocre reign, then the curve path led him to the final result - its final loss. And since he was in the position of the Sovereign, respectively, to the destruction of the State. At the expense of Gorbachert, I do not agree, this ghoul Could prevent the collapse of the USSR, but he did not have either the mind or the Will to not become a traitor.

[Basil50]

There are no secrets on the organizers of the February coup or on the perpetrators of the coup and the arrest of the king. However, so many showmen, stepped up by the academic ranks, tell us from the TV about * the evil * Bolsheviks who destroyed * the crystal bakery paradise *. This is how you need to despise * people * who should * haw * frank lies? Even more surprising is when they call for * repentance * those whose ancestors arrested the tsar and unleashed the Civil War, and then were in the service of the enemies of RUSSIA and even the Nazis. Today, those who * put their lives into the struggle * with the Soviet Union climb into moralists. Those who openly served American interests, and still the basis of their requirements for RUSSIA is serving foreign interests.

[Reptiloid]

Those who organized the overthrow of the king did not repent. And they could. Also their descendants, too, did not repent publicly.

[Mikado]

those who overthrew, then washed with bloody tears. Both organizers and performers. For example, General Ruzsky was stabbed with a dagger, and the person who did not allow breadmaking to Petrograd (Yuri Vladimirovich Lomonosov), he was the inventor of one of the first two diesel locomotives, after building his diesel locomotive in Germany, he chose to stay there. So away from sin.
Here, for the sake of interest, I read Merezhkovsky about the Decembrists. Sensation .. "Vasisualy Lokhankin on the fate of the Russian intelligentsia." It was they, the dreamers, "telegents" who prepared the base! But then it happened, finally! And now what to do with power? sooner or later, "business people" had to take power. We have become the Bolsheviks.

Obviously, if a man with the character of Napoleon had appeared in the place of Nicholas, the autocracy would have had a chance to survive by introducing a real martial law, and brutally suppressing the liberals-Februaryists and revolutionaries.

these are the laws of history. It is always the weak monarch who is overthrown by fools-dreamers (washing themselves later with snot and blood), then there is a period of slogans and anarchy, and so on, until Bonaparte appears for each country.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mikado

Here, for the sake of interest, I read Merezhkovsky about the Decembrists. Sensation .. "Vasisualy Lokhankin on the fate of the Russian intelligentsia." It was they, the dreamers, "telegents" who prepared the base!

In the guise of the intelligentsia, as an ideological and political force in Russian historical development, one can distinguish between a constant element, as it were, a solid form, and an element more variable, fluid - the content. The ideological form of the Russian intelligentsia is its detachment, its alienation from the state and hostility to it.

© Peter Struve

Quote: Mikado

But then it happened, finally! And now what to do with power? sooner or later, "business people" had to take power. We have become the Bolsheviks.

The most interesting thing is that in February, some of those who came to power were also business people. Guchkov himself had management experience in both the financial and public spheres (in Moscow). Lvov headed the ever-memorable "zemgusars", having raised the organization from scratch to the level of the "second health ministry" and a parallel army rear supply agency in a year.
But even this experience did not help them.

For two hours, Barin had a pre-election speech in front of the men in French, but he won the election of Grishka Otrepyev with the program “Barina - Count!”

© Krasnaya Burda. Old Russian elections.

[Mikado]

The ideological form of the Russian intelligentsia is its detachment, its alienation from the state and hostility to it.

I would also say - isolation from the people. That is, they lived in "different information fields." The slogans of the Bolsheviks to the people were clearer and closer.
I would venture to say an seditious cheers-patriotic thing, although I try not to say such words: in principle, a hundred years have passed, and nothing has changed. Those who think of themselves as “soul and conscience” of Russia — Makarevich, Kasparov, Rynska, etc. — I think we live in “different worlds” with them.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mikado

I would also say - isolation from the people. That is, they lived in "different information fields." The slogans of the Bolsheviks to the people were clearer and closer.

And about this, in Milestones, there was also somewhere: they say, intellectuals “went to the people”, but at the same time they themselves did not understand this people.

[Mikado]

Yes, someone else at the dawn of "populism" was fond of it. Only who, I don’t remember. But certainly not Zhelyabov with Perovskaya!

[novel66]

why repent? did what was necessary in the current situation

[Rastas]

But you repent. I personally, I think it’s a blessing that the monarchy in Russia was liquidated along with any stupid obscurantism like the “anointed of God”. I don’t know exactly what my ancestors did at that time, but I would be proud if they were together with the revolution.

[veteran66]

Quote: Rastas

I personally, I consider it good that the monarchy in Russia was liquidated

really? Instead of one king they planted another.

[Rastas]

Tsar is a hereditary position, dynastic in the Russian case. The monarchy implies with itself the social division of society. After the 17th, all this was gone.

[veteran66]

Quote: Rastas

Tsar is a hereditary position, dynastic in the Russian case. The monarchy implies with itself the social division of society. After the 17th, all this was gone.

I agree with the first, but this is a formality, the main thing is the usurpation of power, under Stalin a typical autocracy. Stalin left - the state collapsed. And with the second - no, where is it written? Monarchies are different from absolute to constitutional. What are the estates in Sweden or in the UK?

[avt]

Quote: Vasily50

However, so many showmen, stepped up by the academic ranks, tell us from the TV about * the evil * Bolsheviks who destroyed * the crystal bakery paradise *.

Forgot to add about what, “bakers” prefer quietly silently in a rag. ABOUT THOUSANDS of executed officers of the army and navy during the FEBRUARY revolution. Crunching with rolls they lament about the dispersed Constituent Assembly, but somehow they are silent about the generals released on parole. Well, when Through diligence, the White movement began, when officials began to really fight through sabotage of the resin authorities, then the real flywheel of terror, inherent in ANY civil war, began to unwind. In general, the Cheka was originally a committee to combat not only counter-revolution, that is, those who opposed arms, but also sabotage. So the flywheel of terror was released from the brakes in February1917, and October was a natural continuation of the process. Just like in the song - ,, There is a beginning to the revolution, there is no end to the revolution ... "The end, of course, is - when EVERYTHING dies. Now according to the article. Nicholas did not have a single chance. He at the last chance put a big and fat cross. It was the braking of a specific criminal case for the murder of Grishka Rasputin. It was then that everything, and unlike the Bolsheviks and other ideological revolutionaries, this cowardly elite around him understood - you can do anything you like, this “master of the Russian land” will endure EVERYTHING, even if he is publicly but in the square. Absolute power is absolutely not she forgives when an absolutely phalos is placed on her for the sake of shooting at dogs, cats and crows, and not to political enemies, even from her own family.

[bober1982]

.... for the sake of shooting at dogs, cats and crows ...
I hear about dogs for the first time, and have not been documented, that's how myth-making is born.

[avt]

Quote: bober1982

I hear about dogs for the first time, and have not been documented, that's how myth-making is born.

That is, in fact, there is nothing to object to stupidly and specifically about killing a person practically from the inner circle - Grishka, it is especially piquant that the participants in the political murder were established with the patronage of foreign intelligence in wartime, moreover, military personnel of the imperial army (military tribunal and corresponding wartime become also a myth of course) families of the Romanov dynasty and others ,, monarchists " Well then, with everything else to Radzinsky and ...... flying saucers.

[bober1982]

I just drew attention to the dogs, and you immediately, there is nothing to argue.
The Khrustobochniki prefer quietly silently in a rag .., I quoted you.
The more you read such comments, the more you get confused. And who generally falls into this category? The liberal intelligentsia, officers of the imperial army, urban inhabitants, petty officials, nationalists, officers of the white army, students, landowners, aristocrats, clergy, etc. Everything was mixed up.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: avt

in fact, there is nothing to object to stupidly and specifically about killing a person practically from the inner circle - Grishka, it is especially piquant that the participants in the political murder were established with the patronage of foreign intelligence in wartime, and the military personnel of the imperial army (the military tribunal and the corresponding wartime become also a myth of course) the family of the Romanov dynasty.

In this regard, this year’s article about Rasputin is recalled. One of the members of the forum wrote words that shocked me. He said that now they want to rehabilitate the white movement, for this it is necessary to rehabilitate the tsar first. And for this --- first rehabilitate Grishka. And the latest TV shows about some kind of Grishkina’s descendant ---- just fit in. The stories on the network are evenly divided both of them ~~~ But here’s the official TV means more! There was also an article from the tape about how people treated then to the king ---- ridicule, fears ..... Caricatures of all sorts ..... But from the tape --- last year. Why would he be made holy? We must look for these articles. And other stories on the network for this topic.

[avt]

Quote: Reptiloid

. He said that now they want to rehabilitate the white movement, for this it is necessary to rehabilitate the king first.

Here it’s more likely that we should not talk about rehabilitation, especially since no one actually judged him by any court, I don’t remember which of the Bolsheviks, Sverdlov there, or Lenin, said, “Nobody will know what we did” exactly after ,, the shooting "and the subsequent" burial in the Ganina’s pit "by Radzinsky with the KGB major Aldonin or something ... well, I don’t remember from memory. Take it deeper. After all, he was actually assigned by the Holy Family, which was actually one of the conditions of the Church Abroad. That is, in fact, we all want to be forced to repent forever by those whose ancestors actually messed up February. I personally attended one forum where Cyril was still a metropolitan and there was one hierarch of the Orthodox Church of the Holy Cross who simply said in his speech - RUSSIAN PEOPLE SIN! That's it, all, in a crowd and .... for centuries! Their papel was muddied, and the Russian people sinned, but to us, as the descendants of the “sinned people" they repent before them, repent, repent .... breaking their forehead in front of the icons. To whom it’s like, but to me this whole dog’s wedding with repentance leads to only one thought issued by a classic -

“Well, Paramon ... I, a sinful person, would have deliberately signed up with the Bolsheviks to shoot you.” He would have shot him - and instantly wrote back.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: avt

: It’s more likely that we should not talk about rehabilitation, all the more so since no one actually judged him by any court, I don’t remember which of the Bolsheviks, Sverdlov or Lenin said, “Nobody will know what we did to them”
I personally attended one forum where Cyril was still a metropolitan and there was one hierarch of the Orthodox Church of the Orthodox Church, who in his speech stated so simply that the RUSSIAN PEOPLE SIN! So, all, in a crowd and .... for centuries! Their papel was muddied, and the Russian people have sinned, but to us, as the descendants of the sinning people "before them]

We are talking about moral rehabilitation, about the "" holiness ", as I understand it.
Appointment of the guilty Russia ----- maybe it began with the words of that representative of the OPC? And now constantly all the foreign characters, together with our liberals in everything, appoint Russia guilty!

[bober1982]

No one will know what we did with them
Voikov said so, one of the regicide, immortalized memory, the notorious metro station.

[Pancer]

Quote: bober1982

immortalized memory

And what about the memory of the unworthy, useless and feeble ruler, erected because of political motives by Nemtsov and K. in the rank of “saints”, is that?
And then, Romanov was not king at the time of his death. Wasn’t you tired of lying?

[bober1982]

Not tired of lying?
Are you squabbling? About Nemtsov, who elevated the tsar to the rank of saints - just “ingenious”, Goebbels would never have thought of such a thing, the flight of imagination and imagination rolls over you.

[Pancer]

Quote: bober1982

Goebbels would never have thought of such a thing, the flight of imagination and imagination rolls over you.

Are you talking about yourself? Yes, you do.
Well, whatever you continue to lie, get and study.
http://www.online812.ru/2015/10/05/010/
In addition, in 1981 they were voted martyrs of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, and in 2000, after lengthy disputes that caused considerable resonance in Russia, they were canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church, and are now revered by it as “Royal Martyrs”.
So do not pull the owl on the globe with your dubious origin of knowledge.
http://nngan.livejournal.com/623445.html

[bober1982]

Not too lazy, went to city812according to your recommendation.
Good lord, yes you are "burnt."
Quote of the week of this resource (and announced): Nemtsov became a symbol, his bridge became a symbol ....
After the Sabbath (memory march) apparently have not yet departed? Are you all in an excited state? Here is such an owl with a globe.

[Pancer]

[quote = bober1982
] Not too lazy, went to the city 812, at your recommendation.
Mr. good, yes, you "slept." [/ Quote]
Mr. liar, you have been given two links, so you fall into your lies immediately. As soon as you are trying to prove the integrity and holiness of Nicholas 2, which is not even mentioned.
So do not ascribe your beloved dreams to others.

[RUSS]

Quote: Reptiloid

To do this, first rehabilitate the king.

The king does not need to be rehabilitated since he is not a criminal.

[murriou]

Shooting at cats and crows do not dispute, therefore.
And what changes strikethrough from this list of dogs?

[bober1982]

Was it a shame for the cats? (joke), a subtle hint of your profile picture.
murriou, you and I are serious people, we won’t reduce everything to jokes.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: murriou

Shooting at cats and crows do not dispute, therefore.

I knew that there would be no objection to the first point ©

[Basil50]

With impunity, killing was allowed only for high society shoble. Peasants and workers were hanged and shot often without a military court.

[Cartalon]

For their interests, RI fought in WWI, as a result of the victory, the empire gained unlimited dominance in Eurasia.

[Uncle Murzik]

Fools get richer in thought! Here is another curious document that led to chaos in the country. It was called the “Declaration of the Provisional Government on its composition and tasks” and was published on March 3, 1917. Paragraph 5 of the declaration directly said: 1) “Replacement of the police by the people's police with elected authorities, subordinate bodies local government "
It’s strange. Is it not clear to the gentlemen from the government the simple truths that during the war the dissolution of the police will lead to a surge of crime and add unnecessary difficulties in achieving the long-awaited victory? The very fact of the tsar’s abdication — unprecedented in Russian history — was a heavy blow to the defenses and morale of the troops. Why exacerbate all this?
Has ever in history, when all the forces of the state were tense, carried out a complete restructuring of the state mechanism? Every driver knows that to repair a car, you must at least stop it. No one will try to replace the punctured wheel at full speed - after all, this threatens disaster! And the first paragraph of the first document of the Provisional Government reads: 2) “A complete and immediate amnesty for all political and religious matters, including terrorist assassinations, military uprisings and agrarian crimes, etc.” Those who detonated bombs will be released killed in every possible way the citizens of the Russian Empire during our first revolution! In what other country during the war, all those who tried to destroy this country more recently were released from prison? Do not look, you will not find examples in world history! 3) “Freedom of speech, press, unions, meetings and strikes with the extension of political freedoms to military personnel to the extent permitted by military-technical conditions?” How do you order to understand this? What kind of political freedom can a soldier have during a war? Soldiers and officers during the period of hostilities have the same duties. Unpleasant - kill other people who wear the form of an enemy army. And terrible for every normal person - to die for themselves when their commanders demand it. Other rights during the war were neither among the Roman legionnaires, nor among the Napoleon’s guards, nor among the Suvorov miraculous heroes. What kind of strikes, meetings and alliances in the army can be?

[V.ic]

Quote: Cartalon

RI fought in WWI for its interests

The Russian peasants dressed in soldiers' greatcoats, the notorious "Bospor and Dardanelles" were "up to one place" / at least 80% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia, however! /. And they fought just for the interests of the ruling classes!

Quote: Cartalon

Empire gained unlimited dominance in Eurasia.

... you are utterly stupid, dear! The notorious "unlimited domination, who would allow RI? Have you forgotten about the articles of the Paris Treaty (after the Crimean War) and the Berlin Treaty (after the Balkan War)! The Entente would suddenly become RI and brother and sister, having loved it for shed blood? How many years have passed, but all the same, people will be born and brought up in Russia for whom abroad is a light in the window and a home!

[murriou]

Speaking of the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles. In 1912, the Balkan War presented the Tsar with unprecedented generosity as a gift - the opportunity, together with the Orthodox Greeks and Slavic brothers to fulfill what Tsarist propaganda declared the centuries-old dream of the Russian people and the main goal of Russia's foreign policy for centuries.

Instead, tsarist diplomacy was offended by the Balkan countries because they acted not on command from St. Petersburg and did not work “face” on Austria-Hungary, but turned against Turkey.

This insult turned out to be incomparably more important for the tsar’s diplomats than the Slavic brotherhood, Orthodox solidarity, the centuries-old dream of the Straits and Constantinople, and other blah blah blah for the promotion of gullible scammers for victims.

As a result, the Russian support of brothers and co-religionists was limited to the personal initiative of the volunteers, while the official authorities of Mother Russia turned their backs on the Balkan events and pretended that this had nothing to do with it.

Then the Austrian diplomats quarreled the winners and minimized the results of the 1st Balkan war with the outcome of the 2nd. Tsarist Russia even had no objections. She needed obedient puppets in the Balkans, not friends and allies.
As a result, the long-standing efforts of Russian diplomacy to strengthen Russian positions in the Balkans fell apart at once. Fidelity to Russia was preserved only by Serbia, which for this was thrown by Russia into the WWII for slaughter.
Greece was in WWI on the side of the Entente, but coordinated its actions only with England and France, and not with Russia. Bulgaria, for the sake of hostility with Serbia, was in alliance with the Germans.

And that’s all you need to know about the struggle of tsarist Russia for the "centuries-old dream of the Russian people about Constantinople and the Straits."

[Rastas]

When they talk about the Bosphorus and the Dardenellas, as the goals of joining the WWI, they forget the chronology of events. Russia entered the war in August 1914, what straits could be then if Turkey entered the war on November 2, 1914 ??? Yes, Turkey was an ally of Germany, but Italy also entered into an alliance with Germany and Austria-Hungary, which did not prevent her from taking the side of the Entente in the 15th, which managed to entice Italy to her side with the help of competent diplomacy. In the case of Turkey, this was not done. On the contrary, a move was made to a conscious war, as a result, for the sake of mythical straits, it was necessary to keep an entire army on the Caucasian front.

[murriou]

Well, tsarist propaganda generally gave out tricks.
Allegedly, the war was launched in order to protect the brothers of Serbia from the reptiles of the Germans.

But at the same time, the plans for the war were basically built long before the incident in Sarajevo, and the first blow of the tsarist army was directed in the opposite direction - to Germany, which even had no common border with Serbia.

But Russia could not seriously help Serbia, and it didn’t really try, but in fact it used Serbia to foment war, instead of preventing diplomacy with it, as the gopniks from the gateway send a “light” cigarette to an adult man.

Allegedly, the war was World War II.
But at the same time, reasonable people did not understand why a Russian attack on Germany for Anglo-French interests would suddenly be considered a Russian war for the Russian people.

And of course, the mythical feats of all kinds of Cossack heroes, alone or with small forces dispersing enemy battalions, are sacred, especially when in reality it is rather the other way around.

A classic example of lies is the number of supposedly killed Germans during the Brusilovsky breakthrough, one and a half to two times more than they were alive there all the time (about 1 million), including reinforcements (about 300 thousand), despite the fact that a little remains after the operation is completed more than it was at its beginning.

To believe in such nonsense, you have to be a baker on your head or another variety * intellectually alternative creatures *. But there are also such ...

[Rastas]

Serbia’s help is also for simpletons fools. what help to Serbia when Izvolsky officially, without war, safely sold the Balkans of Austria-Hungary in 1908? What is Serbia's help if Russia clearly could not formulate its position during the second Balkan war, when the brothers began to fight against each other? what help when all industry, agriculture, railways of Serbia under Karageorgevich were sold to France, which held the Serbs tight on the hook? Therefore, helping the little brothers was the usual idle talk.

[murriou]

here I am talking about.

[Reptiloid]

I considered words about the interests of the Russian Empire sarcasm. Inappropriate.

[murriou]

May be so. It was always difficult to distinguish subtle irony from fat idiocy.

[murriou]

judging by the further comments of this figure, he still does not have irony and sarcasm, but an alternative interpretation

[Cartalon]

You are utterly stupid; with the liquidation of Austria-Hungary, Germany and France became dependent on the Republic of Ingushetia, for they would not have reached a compromise in Alsace and Lorraine, as a result, all the forces of the empire had been freed up on the western border.

[murriou]

Quote: Cartalon

Germany and France became dependent on RI

What do you smoke? The address of your drug dealer?

Nothing so that in reality RI was just from France in the deepest technological and financial dependence?

That the “Russian” planes flew almost all on French engines, and they themselves were mostly of French design, and the “Russian” ships built in front of the PMV sailed on German and English turbines, because English engineers in Russia established the production of Russian copies of English turbines already during the war?

Developed countries had their own production of engines for cars and aircraft, even Italy in this respect significantly surpassed Russia, which supplied ready-made kits for screwdriver assembly. It would be worth tsarist Russia to try to trample against developed countries - it suddenly found itself without aircraft, without cars and without the most modern ships.

[Rastas]

What domination in Eurasia, my friend? Russia was inferior in economic development to the countries of the Entente, the USA and Japan at that time. What could she offer Eurasia in the economy to dominate? And do not confuse the interests of a narrow group of the so-called bourgeoisie with the interests of the whole country. A narrow stratum of rich people was getting rich at the WWI, receiving fabulous money. It was such simpletons as you, the ruling group, hiding behind selfish interests, who were embodying the ideas of protecting their countries. Only disappointment came later. It is no coincidence that the most famous works about the WWII are imbued with an anti-war idea.

[Glory1974]

RI fought in WWI for its interests

After all, they asked Nicholas not to get involved in the war.
But he decided otherwise. And three cousins ​​clashed in the fray: the King of England, the Russian Emperor and the German Kaiser.
Brothers fight and who benefits?

[Olgovich]

The war, despite patriotic propaganda, was imperialistic, not domestic. Russia fought for the interests of England and France, the ruling elite, which dragged the people into the massacre. Obviously, the soldiers, with their peasant savvy, understood all this. Thus, the soldiers who passed the front and the survivors were not afraid to rebel, the front line would not be worse!

Key false phrase of the article. The war was World War II and "essentially no different from WWII"(Putin)
What the Germans sought was evident from the Brest Peace (Straits. Yes?).
The fact that many did not want to the front is understandable, for this there is martial law and the laws of war, which “instruct” the unwilling.
The mistake of the authorities is that this provision and laws were NOT. The hope of patriotism alone must be reinforced by the cruel punishment of disobedience. Alas, this was not.

The Emperor’s mistake was to leave Stavka and stop the troops from the front.

The author is right that the Provisional Committee of the State Duma only FOLLOWED the events, and did not initiate them.

[Uncle Murzik]

darling Olgovich and that Putin has already become a historian? you still refer to Zhirinovsky !!!!

[Stas57]

Key false phrase of the article. The war was World War II and "essentially no different from the Second World War" (Putin)

Well, do we already have the fatherland of Constantinople?
and for 300% of the scrolls, kickbacks and drinks, no one in Europe or us has made any crazy riches, is this not true?
olegarchy did not dictate his will to the authorities?

for which we suffered, as usual, the most losses, for the fact that the brothers Willy and Nicky could not agree?

[parusnik]

Uncle Murzik

darling Olgovich and that Putin has already become a historian?

..I will explain, in Soviet times, you write, let’s say course, I didn’t refer to the classics of Marxism-Leninism, I got a deuce .. And then Alexander Olgovich, refers to the president, what kind of objection you object to Olgovich, you object to the president .. therefore you are not trustworthy ..

[Stas57]

"essentially no different from the Second World War" (Putin)

figured it out myself? this phrase is not google

[Uncle Murzik]

stas57 yes it’s Moldavian, and most likely Ukrainian Olgovich lies and does not blush!

[V.ic]

Quote: Olgovich

"essentially no different from the Second World War" (Putin)

... well, why distort "his" words? They even “got around” ...
"" This war was called imperialist in Soviet times. How the Second World War differs from the First, in fact, is unclear."http://eotkv.ru/info/vladimir-putin-o-pervoj-miro
voj-vojne.html
If they began to quote, then quote verbatim without putting their words into his mouth.

[Stas57]

Hmm, I didn’t win, but I lost and not into cards, but in ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: V.ic

“This war was called imperialist in Soviet times. How the Second World War differs from the First, in fact, is unclear. "Http://eotkv.ru/info/vladimir-putin-o-pervoj-miro
voj-vojne.html
If they began to quote, then quote verbatim without putting their words into his mouth.

The bottom line is TA.

[V.ic]

Quote: Olgovich

The bottom line is TA.

You have the accuracy of reflecting the phrases of the president of the whole RF as in a mirror (right-left confused), and piss in the sand!

[Olgovich]

Quote: V.ic

а piss in the sand!

Bravo!
And you are an expert ...

[Rastas]

Yeah, Olgovich, of course, the second Patriotic War. For power and only for it. as Yaroslav Hasek wrote: "While the kings were beaten by an ace, far at the front the kings beat each other with their subjects."

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Olgovich

The fact that many did not want to the front is understandable, for this there is martial law and the laws of war, which “instruct” the unwilling.
The mistake of the authorities is that this provision and laws were NOT. The hope of patriotism alone must be reinforced by the cruel punishment of disobedience. Alas, this was not.

Yes, yes, yes ... too much softness of power towards the people is to blame. Again, the wrong people of power have come across.
And the fact that the government itself with all its branches robbed its own country in black, pushing it closer to the edge is like that, trifles. Even during the war, some sawed the military budget in a black way, carefully attaching shells to the military department at a price 50-100% more expensive than the same products of the "inefficient and costly" state-owned industry.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexey RA

Yes, yes, yes ... too much softness of power towards the people is to blame. Again, the wrong people of power have come across.

We are talking about the same "people" who were shot as provacators and cowards in the Second World War.

do not touch the people — neither to you, nor to me he is right to speak on his own behalf — he did not give.

Quote: Alexey RA

And the fact that the government itself with all its branches robbed its own country in black, pushing it closer to the edge is like that, trifles. Even during the war, some sawed the military budget in a black way, carefully attaching shells to the military department at a price 50-100% more expensive than the same products of the "inefficient and costly" state-owned industry.

Yes, it was not the kingdom of God. And nowhere else was it then. And then there was And no today. AND?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Olgovich

We are talking about the same "people" who were shot as provacators and cowards in the Second World War.

So the problem is that these measures of power in the WWII would not solve anything - the fish rots from the head. What is the use of fighting exclusively with individual deserters if oligarchs with the army elite sentenced the entire system as a whole?
Would the USSR survive in 1941 if ordinary provocateurs and cowards were shot, but at the same time, the “untouchables” Molotov, Kalinin and Kaganovich would be intriguing against Stalin, right up to the plot with an artificial shortage of food in the capital? And Novikov would sell GAU shells at a double-triple price ... And would the family of Comrade Stalin and the leadership of the Navy NK have their own gesheft in the Nikolaev factories and shipyards donated from the treasury to private hands?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexey RA

would not decide

Your NOT to my YES would (as in the Second World War).

Quote: Alexey RA

Would the USSR survive in 1941 if ordinary provocateurs and cowards were shot, but at the same time, the “untouchables” Molotov, Kalinin and Kaganovich would be intriguing against Stalin, right up to the plot with an artificial shortage of food in the capital? And Novikov would sell GAU shells at a double-triple price ... And would the family of Comrade Stalin and the leadership of the Navy NK have their own gesheft in the Nikolaev factories and shipyards donated from the treasury to private hands?

Would resist. It was not the untouchables who overthrew the Emperor, but quite a firing squad, who, by misunderstanding, lived longer than they should.

[Uncle Murzik]

darling Olgovich again you all allegedly!

[parusnik]

The head of the imperial palace guard, Major General Alexander Spiridovich, described the situation in Petrograd on February 20: “Having seen some of the Security Department, I realized that they looked at the situation hopelessly. A catastrophe is approaching, and the Minister of the Interior apparently does not understand the situation , and proper measures are not taken. There will be trouble. The murder of Rasputin laid the foundation for some kind of chaos, some kind of anarchy. Everyone is waiting for some kind of coup ... "But, what the emperor himself writes, the monarch is serene. The most memorable event for him on February 26 was “... played dominoes in the evening”. And only the next day, as if waking up from lethargy, he writes: "In Petrograd riots began a few days ago; unfortunately, the troops began to take part in them ..." .. Another eyewitness to those events left a very interesting observation - writer Boris Zaitsev , then drafted into the army, "... I saw a racing red car on Arbat, in which the mayor was sitting. His face was earthy yellow, his eyes were down. His cap was pulled over his very forehead, and its top was weirdly rising from behind. He flew into the abyss, and it was read about it "

[avva2012]

Obviously, if a man with the character of Napoleon were in place of Nicholas, the autocracy would have a chance to survive ....

Accents are not correctly placed. If “a man with the character of Napoleon appeared in Nicholas’s place”, then Russia would have approached 1914 with different economic and political indicators. Such a person would not have brought the country to the first revolution, having freed the peasants from bondage in the form of payments to the landlords for the land, would have developed industry a little differently and at a different pace, and also, for starters, sent their relatives to command the Chukchi military district. Everything would be different if ... But that which has died has died. It is extremely disappointing that as a result of the Civil War, so many died, so many mutilated fates. Yes, only for this, the bloody Nicholas, it is necessary to put on the face of those who, in History, in normal people, get colder blood: Pol Pot, Hitler and Co.

[novel66]

Are you talking about a saint?

[avva2012]

Aha , about the "Royal Passion-Bearer." Here, for example, the doctor accidentally, unintentionally, made the wrong diagnosis, prescribed the wrong treatment, as a result of which the patient died. If it comes to court, then of course it will be considered that the doctor is a good family man, he graduated from a medical university with a "gold medal", did not violate labor discipline, therefore, he may not be sent to prison, but I doubt that he will be awarded. Relatives of that patient are unlikely to bring flowers to the office and order the doctor’s favorite song on the radio in gratitude. Nikolai the second, was probably a pleasant person in life, wrote beautiful letters to his future wife, loved his children. Only, as a result of his professional activity, more than one person gave his soul to God. The country fell apart, and his subjects died and often in terrible torment.
And the fact that he was shot and then doused with acid and buried like a dog does not justify him and does not make him a sufferer when in his former Empire, mother Russia, in the 20 century, people were dying of hunger, they were brutally tortured and killed. 8-10 million losses in the Civil War! Not a horseradish king-priest worked!

[novel66]

I agree with you categorically

[Glory1974]

And the fact that he was shot and then doused with acid and buried like a dog does not justify him, and does not make him a martyr,

According to Andrei Kuraev, (formerly a public relations official from the Russian Orthodox Church), it is death that makes a person a holy martyr, and all previous life has nothing to do with it.
That is, the church does not justify his deeds as an autocrat, but revered as a saint for martyrdom.

[avva2012]

Glory 1974, I'm sorry, I answer from a mobile. Inconvenient to write. In my opinion, Nicholas, by comparison not only with the real Saints, but also with the simple people of the empire, died easily. Nobody cut out anything on his skin, he didn’t take off his skin, he didn’t burn him alive. And with a checker, the heart also did not cut out. I’m not saying that I didn’t die on the cross, and like the first Christians, lions, no one fed him. Got a bullet. Based on what his reign ended with, he got off easily. Children, sincerely sorry! They, yes, had to be canonized. That's just in conjunction with thousands of others, not so noble.

[Glory1974]

[quoteNo one had cut out anything on his skin, he didn’t take off his skin, he didn’t burn him alive. And with a checker, my heart also did not cut out.] [/ Quote]
Honestly, I do not particularly support his canonization. It is probably more of a political act. It is not for nothing that the church for a long time refused to even recognize the authenticity of the remains.
And about the easy death, again, I refer to Kuraev. In the last days of his life, as follows from the diaries and eyewitness accounts, Nikolai understood what was going on. But despite this, with Christian humility he went to the scaffold and led his family. Agree, realizing that the children will die, this is probably more painful than a knife to the heart.

[avva2012]

Quote: Glory1974 But despite this, with Christian humility he went to the scaffold and led his family. Agree, realizing that the children will die, this is probably more painful than a knife to the heart.

On the purely human side, I understand and even sympathize. But. The emperor is not just a man, he follows the same canons of Orthodoxy, was crowned kingdom. It’s hard to imagine what a responsibility this is! General Dubensky D.N. commented on the abdication with the words “handed over how to hand over the squadron... I had to go not to Pskov, but to the guard, to the Special Army. ” You can’t say better! And the fact that as a citizen, he experienced an internal tragedy, not that he does not whitewash him, but also does not make his subsequent life a feat that can be equated with the feat of true Saints. You are right, canonization is a pure policy.

[Mikado]

Alexander, I, unfortunately, do not agree with you. But .. no offense!

If “a man with the character of Napoleon appeared in Nicholas’s place”, then Russia would have approached with different economic and political indicators by 1914.

Napoleon was more concerned with politics and wars than with economics. It seems to me that his uninterrupted wars lay a heavy burden on the population.

To begin with, he sent his relatives to command the Chukotka Military District.

as far as I remember, all relatives of Napoleon became if not kings (even if at least some of the rumpled Italian country - spitting on the world map), or, at worst, dukes. The most worthy of his relatives is Eugene Beauharnais, the stepson who commanded the corps in the Great Army. The most interesting thing, leafing through Wikipedia and the genealogies of these relatives, I came across that one of the descendants of this Beauharnais married some great-great-great (I don’t know how much “great”) - the granddaughter .. Kutuzova!

[avva2012]

Well what are you Mikadowhat insults I read your comment with interest, however, as usual. I'll start with the second part. I am afraid that they will accuse me of bloodthirstiness and therefore replaced the short word "hang" with "Chukotka VO". Corrected. I want to note that in no way do I disregard Chukotka, but simply wanted to note the geographical remoteness of this territory from the capital. At the expense of the first part, your answer, there is something to object to. Yes, it was not very good (bad) for ordinary people to live under Napoleon, and he had abolished his own people a lot, but since they compared the sufferer with this person, he had to comply. So here. The main thing that Napoleon left is the code of laws of the Empire, according to which, not only France still lives. The main thing in Napoleon for me is not his military genius, but the ability to select people for key posts. In my opinion, to know and understand people is the main talent of any leader. What, alas, Nikolai the second did not possess. Well, to you, my best wishes!

[Mikado]

Yes, the life of Napoleon wasn’t very simple for the common people (bad) and he ruined a lot of his people, but since they compared the sufferer to this person, he had to comply.

Oh, I do not dispute at all!

The main thing that Napoleon left is the code of laws of the Empire, according to which, not only France still lives. The main thing in Napoleon for me is not his military genius, but the ability to select people for key posts.

I somehow did not think about it. We ask forgiveness! Yes, he had a wonderful cohort of warlords “from the bottom”. And to you my very best wishes! With respect, Nicholai

[avva2012]

By the way, Joseph Vissarionych also had some abilities in personnel matters. And, after him, everything. There were none. I am afraid that now, precisely in this, there is a crisis. Yours faithfully. Alexander.

[Mikado]

I support. Just sooner or later Vissarionych put together a team of like-minded people, and these were relatively honest and not thieving people. And he got rid of “extra people” (it was impossible in another way - the 30s lived in anticipation of a war). I’ll get around repression, this is a separate unpleasant topic for conversation.
with us now, if there is a set of like-minded people, it is somehow quiet and unintelligible. In the 90s there were crooks in power, and this goes around. I’ll venture to suggest that we still have a “troubled time”. I will say this: there is no optimism. And goals. with respect,

[avva2012]

we have now, if there is a set of like-minded people...
I would say accomplices I absolutely agree with you that the Time of Troubles continues. Worth a look at our Government. There is a deliberate destruction of health and education. If, in full, plans with the industry failed to be implemented, then in this area "everything is fine." So, yes, with optimism, everything is complicated. Soon, there will be no one to heal, and not when.

[Mikado]

There is a targeted destruction of health

You probably know better than any of us ..
but the confidence in the future and the truth is not for some reason. Well only the thief lives, they are confident and not weighed down by moral standards. The more you read about our state and near-budget "top managers", the more you respect private business - they steal less.

[avva2012]

You probably know better than any of us ..
I think any practicing doctor from a budgetary organization will confirm my words.
Honest business? Yes, he is, somewhere. And officials from whom they take bribes, do not know? And, after all, it’s not that they extort, as it was in 90, but on the contrary, at least arrange a tender among those who want to give more. Moreover, I do not agree that "honest business" is only ours, and that they say in civilized countries everything is different. Guy Ritchie, "Rocker", and many other films do not appear from scratch. Corruption is a generic disease of capitalism. Building permits, cutting down, demolition, or something else ... How can an official be without money?

[Mikado]

that is yes. I meant that there is less respect for an official demanding a bribe, or a retired official receiving a "golden parachute" that we all can’t earn for life (we have a rich country. Not for everyone). And then we are surprised at the rise in prices or the fact that there is no money for retirement. I’ll joke: if you want a normal budget, return the state monopoly to vodka! A joke, but true ..
And about capitalism and so on - your truth. The feeling that they did not take bribes and did not demand only under Joseph Vissarionovich "People do not change. Just the housing problem ruined them."

[avva2012]

"People do not change. Just the housing problem ruined them."
Yeah, when there was a clear opportunity to exchange an apartment in Moscow for an “apartment” in the Magadan Territory, those wishing to take bribes fell sharply.
And one moment. People were brought up differently. Not only was fear for what was done, the inevitability of punishment, but it never occurred to a person, “how can this be done?”! If you think about it well, there were most honest people. Moreover, in all walks of life. Society was healthier not only physically. I think that if there had been no War with its colossal victims, there would have been every chance, the emergence of a "new" man.

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Reptiloid

Those who organized the overthrow of the king did not repent. And they could. Also their descendants, too, did not repent publicly.

Well, why?

[Curious]

The most interesting thing is that such a process around the revolution is not a Russian monopoly.
The modern French bourgeois historians F. Furet and D. Richet have long and completely rejected the "traditional" (that is, in their opinion, "obsolete") view of the revolution of the late 9th century. as a "single" revolution, besides the anti-feudal revolution, which accelerated the development of France along the capitalist path. They offer a “new interpretation” of this revolution as supposedly having a detrimental effect on the further development of capitalism in the country and representing an interweaving of three concurrent but completely different revolutions: the revolution of the liberal nobility and the bourgeoisie, which met both the spirit of the philosophy of the XNUMXth century and interests capitalist development; archaic in its goals and results of the peasant revolution, not so much anti-feudal as anti-bourgeois and anti-capitalist; revolution of the sanctuary, hostile capitalist concentration and therefore essentially reactionary. These authors argue that because of the popular movement, the “movement of poverty and anger,” the revolution “went astray”, that it “carried away”, especially at the stage of the Jacobin dictatorship, and that only the coup of Thermidor XNUMX put an end to the “deviation” of the revolution from its liberal and bourgeois tasks.
What is not the battle of the "bakers" with the "Bolsheviks".

[murriou]

Obviously, if a man with the character of Napoleon were in place of Nicholas, the autocracy would have a chance to survive

To begin with, such a person would not have allowed the shameful loss of the war with Japan, would have taken measures to eliminate the technological gap between Russia and developed countries, as well as such a deep technological, economic and political dependence on them.
It would be a completely different story from a completely different country.

[avt]

Quote: murriou

To begin with, such a person would not have allowed the shameful loss of the war with Japan, would have taken measures to eliminate the technological gap between Russia and developed countries, as well as such a deep technological, economic and political dependence on them.

Congratulations on joining our club, Stalinists

Quote: murriou

It would be a completely different story from a completely different country.

Well, actually it was the USSR. Created on the territorial base of the Empire, by the majority of the very people who lived on it. The fierce blood of the Civil and Patriotic and no less heroic labor. And merged by the Communist elite, who had disbelieved in their own ideas preached to the people, for the sake of living according to the principle - “so that we have everything and we don’t have anything for it." the conclusions made quite right.

[murriou]

truly so.

[Pancer]

Well formulated. Olgovich in a trance, nothing to cover.

Quote: avt

The classic implementation of the biblical plot of the sale of the birthright for lentil soup. The Chinese commanders, looking at this perestroika Sabbath, made the conclusions quite right.

[avt]

Quote: Pancer

Well formulated. Olgovich in a trance, nothing to cover.

Do you know HOW the Chinese wisely acted with the period of the same “cultural revolution”, the same one in which the current leaders of China suffered, well, not all, however, starting with the main real reformer, Den Xiao Ping ??? The very time they called the board, gangs of four "? The Communist Party called this period “fascism with an element of slavery” and ...... did not fight in hysteria, “demaoization” They do not shamefully hang Mao’s mausoleum and host PLA parades on its rostrum, do not fight in hysteria with a demand to remove Mao from the mausoleum .. They take their entire story completely, without cuts and extruding individual pages in conjunctural interests, reducing personal accounts with the dead. Will they last for a long time? I think yes. The Celestial Empire actually stands on that, which did not win a single serious military company by force of arms, but really dissolved in itself all the potential invaders, starting with the Mongols.

[Pancer]

Quote: avt

. On that actually Celestial

Mao had errors of 30%, but positive of 70%, they say in China and the question is closed.
We have ... a bacchanalia of lies, distortions, slander and outright chernukha on the history of your country.

[avt]

Quote: Pancer

Mao had errors of 30%, but positive of 70%

It's not even a percentage! They really did what you are talking about.

Quote: Pancer

in China and the question is closed.

He is placed in the pantheon of the history of China as the Great Leader as a whole ... all ... with all percent of evil and good. This is, at least, CORRECT, and at the maximum WISE for the progressive development of the STATE! And they, leaders, do not even allow their thoughts to be erased, or to extinct this period of HIS History.

[V.ic]

Quote: Pancer

We have ... a bacchanalia of lies, distortions, slander and outright chernukha on the history of your country.

... shooting the past, crippling the future, perverts, in a word.

[Jumbo]

Quote: V.ic

Quote: Pancer

We have ... a bacchanalia of lies, distortions, slander and outright chernukha on the history of your country.

... shooting the past, crippling the future, perverts, in a word.

they say differently- Whoever shoots a pistol into the past, in that future shoots from a gun

[Jumbo]

Quote: Pancer

Quote: avt

. On that actually Celestial

Mao had errors of 30%, but positive of 70%, they say in China and the question is closed.
We have ... a bacchanalia of lies, distortions, slander and outright chernukha on the history of your country.

Interestingly, Mao himself also evaluated Stalin

[parusnik]

avt

Do not bashfully shy Mao's mausoleum

Or, like the French, the remains of Napoleon lie in the mausoleum near the city of Paris .. for over 200 years and all this time the French have not been discussing whether to rebury Bonaparte, on the island of Corsica, next to his mother ... Respect the man, despite that three generations of the French in different wars put ..

[Hedgehog]

People then had the nickname of Nikolai-Nikolash-Durachek. That's how people called him

[murriou]

The picture was still popular: the Tsar Cannon does not shoot, the Tsar Bell does not ring, the Tsar Rag does not control.

[A1845]

on the one hand - the personal idiocy of the sufferer
on the other, the traditional hide of the baker
who needed it save?

[pussamussa]

Nicholas II led the country for twenty two years. You can’t say indiscriminately that everything was bad. Progress and development of the country were in different directions. But the era he got a very difficult and crucial. The king interfered with the bourgeoisie, which overthrew the monarchy. Even Napoleon in his place could not change anything. “Western partners”, especially the Anglo-Saxons, added fuel to the fire. Almost all the upper classes desired the removal of the king. The king was betrayed by all.

[A1845]

Nicholas II led the country for twenty two years. You can’t say indiscriminately that everything was bad

so that all 22 years all it was bad (in a country with innumerable wealth), this would have to be done very hard

[pussamussa]

Quote: A1845

so that all 22 years everything would be bad (in a country with innumerable wealth), it would be necessary to try very hard

Rate the last quarter century of the present.

[A1845]

this century has not passed the first quarter ..

[cost]

A1845 : this century has not passed the first quarter ..

a fortiori

[Monarchist]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Kotischa

Manarshya authority involves two main principles:
One-man management.
And responsibility for the state.

All these provisions would be true in the conditions of an absolute monarchy. After the events of 1905-1907, absolutism was thoroughly undermined, the monarch had less power than Gorbachev in 1991. And now they are trying to impose on us the opinion that only M. Gorbachev, and even Yeltsin with Kravchuk and possibly Shushkevich, are to blame for the collapse of our country. But the scheme of defeating the country, if you look a little from the side, and very, very much like one another. Maybe we will depart nevertheless from the endlessly imposed dies on us, try to consider the problem a little deeper, only then it will be possible to continue not to make such mistakes, not to "step on the same rake."

But overcoming stamps is a difficult matter. The easiest way to say "redhead is to blame" (I say for example) or "brunet guilty"

[pussamussa]

If we try to compare the last twenty-five years of our history throughout the entire post-Soviet space (that is, within the borders of the Russian Empire) and the twenty-two years of the reign of Nicholas II, that is, to calculate all the pros and cons of both periods, it is obvious that the era of the reign of Nicholas Alexandrovich will be in a significant plus compared to the current one.

[A1845]

if we take the average temperature in the hospital, I won’t argue
and if only the Russian Federation, then you should not exaggerate, we have not yet reached such a trash

[Monarchist]

Alexander, I agree with you that the Emperor did not "have any chance to retain power." Try to maintain power if treason is in the top military leadership, and as we saw the roles of Generals Alekseev and Ruzsky were negative, treason in your family (Kirill Vladimirovich’s trick with a red bow), fear for your family.
Agree that the Emperor, having no connection with his family, did not know reliable information and was forced to rely on dubious generals + weak-willed

[Cat]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: Monarchist

he shot and stepped on a rag, and the grip, the stalk of a hoe, starved me

what nonsense? arbitrary set of words?

Ah city - city ........ where is your imagination?
By the way, sometimes stepping on a chopper in the barn, a neighbor’s hoe stalk flies between his legs! The principle of leverage has not yet been canceled !!! Physics - Grade 7. Archimedes "Give me a lever, I will turn the earth"!
Two solutions:
1. Tidy up the barn.
2. Burn the barn.
Everything is the same in big politics!

[cost]

Monarchist Ah city - city ........ where is your imagination?
By the way, sometimes stepping on a chopper in the barn, a neighbor’s hoe stalk flies between his legs! The principle of leverage has not yet been canceled !!! Physics - Grade 7. Archimedes "Give me a lever, I will turn the earth"!

No, this is: Physics - Grade 7. Monarchist "Give me a hoe and I will poke between the legs of a neighbor"