Military Review

Japanese submarines switch to lithium-ion batteries

81
In 2020, the world's first non-nuclear submarine (11-i in the Soryu type series) with lithium-ion batteries should be put into operation in Japan, reports bmpd with a link to the resource www.shephardmedia.com.


A Japanese non-nuclear SS 503 Hakuryū submarine of the Soryu type during a visit to Australia.

According to a former Japanese submarine commander fleet Masao Kobayashi, “this will allow us to abandon the use of submarines not only traditional lead-acid batteries, but also Stirling’s non-volatile engines.”

“Lithium-ion batteries give boats a submersible duration comparable to the duration when using air-independent power plants (VNEU) at low speeds, but at the same time due to high capacity they provide a very high duration of underwater travel and at high speeds, which is especially important when exiting attack or when evading the enemy. Unlike a VNEU, lithium-ion batteries can be constantly recharged ", - stated in the material.

Kobayashi also noted that the downside is the high cost of batteries. According to him, the 11-th boat is about $ 566 million, while the 10-th boat was spent only $ 454 million. The difference in more than 100 million just falls on the new batteries.

“There are three requirements for the full use of lithium-ion batteries in a submarine. These batteries require high-power diesel generators for recharging, enlarged RDP devices for increasing the air supply and exhaust gases, as well as changes in the electrical circuits, primarily the use of automatic fuses ”, - writes a resource.

It is also noted that Lithium-ion batteries weigh less than lead-acid batteries, so the Soryu-type submarine project had to be slightly reworked to maintain ballasting and stability.
Photos used:
Australian Department of Defense
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  1. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 20 February 2017 17: 15 New
    +8
    No wonder Elon Musk is building his hyper-factory of lithium-ion batteries ...
    Will sell to someone. They will need tons per boat. yes
    1. cniza
      cniza 20 February 2017 17: 23 New
      +7
      According to Masao Kobayashi, the former commander of the submarine forces of the Japanese fleet, “this will allow not only traditional lead-acid batteries but also air-independent Stirling engines to be abandoned on submarines.”


      Something is in it, but while they lose atomic.
      1. Monos
        Monos 20 February 2017 17: 38 New
        11
        Quote: cniza
        Something is in it, but while they lose atomic.

        Atomic ones have one drawback - cooling the reactor with overboard water. They are found along the thermal trail.
        1. just exp
          just exp 20 February 2017 18: 01 New
          +5
          and the noise of the submarines seems to be more.
          1. Operator
            Operator 20 February 2017 23: 19 New
            +4
            The noise of submarines with electric propulsion is an order of magnitude greater than the noise of battery submarines — the pumps for pumping the reactor coolant (water of the first closed loop) and the pumps for pumping the coolant of the heat exchanger (outboard water of the second open loop) are noisy.

            If the first noise source is eliminated when switching to reactors with a metal coolant and electromagnetic pumps without moving parts, the second noise source in the nuclear submarines is unremovable.

            In addition to the pumps, older submarines without electric propulsion, in addition to the noise, are also made up of mechanical gearboxes built between steam turbines and propellers.
        2. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 20 February 2017 18: 29 New
          +7
          Quote: Monos
          Quote: cniza
          Something is in it, but while they lose atomic.

          Atomic ones have one drawback - cooling the reactor with overboard water. They are found along the thermal trail.

          Vitya hi drinks But lithium-ion has a different one - where in the middle of Akiyan will they find thin charging on Nokia? wassat
          But seriously - it smells like a hat with a white ribbon ... So many new developments - it’s a sin for the Japanese not to know ...
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 20 February 2017 17: 45 New
        15
        Quote: cniza
        Something is in it, but while they lose atomic.

        In military materials, they turned down about their low noise ... But there are projects of atomic carriers completely on electric propulsion. ESPs have already been excluded from the circuit, the natural circulation of the coolant, packed in a single unit the entire flow part ... and they work without access to atmospheric air.
        And with LIABs these are the ambushes awaiting the Japanes:
        1. involuntary autoignition (like Samsung 7 model!)
        2. memory of battery capacity: this is when the charge is not fully downloaded when discharged and a new charge is started - the remaining capacity of such a battery is “forgotten” (!) It turns out 1 / 2 batteries. The treatment cycle is long and based ...
        3. you still need DG to charge LIAB. And he, at work, rumbles on the floor of the sea, you can forget about secrecy ...
        And so, wow: a good thing, considering that such a battery can be made absolutely conformal ...
        But our child prodigy-VNEU (if you believe the OBS), which is already at the exit, will directly convert chemical energy into electrical energy, without rotating parts and mechanisms, chemically "burning" hydrogen from DT reforming. That will be a revolution in the melt, and not this cheap "sensation" for twenty rubles!
        IMHO.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 20 February 2017 17: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          But there are projects of atomic carriers completely on electric propulsion

          This is not the case. The reactor needs to be cooled and there's nothing to be done about it.
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          you still need DG to charge LIAB.

          Therefore, it is too early to talk about the revolution in the submarine. That's when it will be possible to completely abandon the engine, floating only on batteries, then yes.
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 20 February 2017 18: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Dart2027
            That's when it will be possible to completely abandon the engine, floating only on batteries, then yes.

            I wonder if anyone tried to make a boat at RITEGs? Well, or at least use them as an additional power source?
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 20 February 2017 19: 41 New
              0
              For the main - a little power, for the backup - too expensive.
        2. Res_Ullus
          Res_Ullus 20 February 2017 20: 43 New
          +4
          2. memory of battery capacity: this is when the charge is not fully downloaded when discharged and a new charge is started - the remaining capacity of such a battery is “forgotten” (!) It turns out 1 / 2 batteries. The treatment cycle is long and based ...
          Li-ion and Li-pol batteries do not have a “memory effect”
          Charge-discharge controllers are built on precision current meters. And the current meter must be initialized. To do this, it is sufficient to fully charge and completely discharge the battery. This does not affect the battery capacity.
          1. iConst
            iConst 20 February 2017 23: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: Res_Ullus
            Li-ion and Li-pol batteries do not have a “memory effect”
            Charge-discharge controllers are built on precision current meters. And the current meter must be initialized. To do this, it is sufficient to fully charge and completely discharge the battery. This does not affect the battery capacity.

            The controllers are built on precision voltage meters. Since charging is according to the CC / CV scheme. And if CC - Constant Current can vary, then CV - Constant Voltage is rigidly defined with an accuracy of 0,05V by datasheet.

            The charge percent counters for the device are “initialized” to eliminate the battery imbalance, but they are not related to the battery charging controller itself.

            There is a memory effect, but the microscopic one and for the entire service “eats” is negligible than the effect of the aging of the battery.
          2. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 21 February 2017 00: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: Res_Ullus
            Li-ion and Li-pol batteries do not have a “memory effect”

            ??
            According to research by scientists from the Paul Scherer Institute (Switzerland), it was found that lithium-ion batteries have a memory effect. As the study showed, frequent cycles of incomplete charging and subsequent discharge lead to the appearance of separate “microeffects of memory”, which are then summed up. This is because the basis of the battery is the release and re-capture of lithium ions, the dynamics of which deteriorate in case of incomplete charging [

            However, you are right - they are insignificant at first, but they accumulate over time, like metal fatigue ...
            Quote: Res_Ullus
            To do this, it is sufficient to fully charge and completely discharge the battery
            One of the rules of operation of LIAB states
            Two simple rules to help extend battery life:
            1. The battery must not be completely discharged.
            2. Do not charge the battery near heat sources, in other hot places.
        3. Professor
          Professor 20 February 2017 21: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          1. involuntary autoignition (like Samsung 7 model!)

          In NAPL there is no need to push the battery so that there would be no space for anything else and its price should not be $ 2.

          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          2. memory of battery capacity: this is when the charge is not fully downloaded when discharged and a new charge is started - the remaining capacity of such a battery is “forgotten” (!) It turns out 1 / 2 batteries. The treatment cycle is long and based ...

          Lithium-ion batteries have no memory. She is no longer even on my batteries in Makita. But if it were, then complete discharge solves this problem.

          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          3. you still need DG to charge LIAB. And he, at work, rumbles on the floor of the sea, you can forget about secrecy ...

          You can charge it with a windmill and a solar battery. wink It is possible and fuel cell.

          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          But our child prodigy-VNEU (if you believe the OBS), which is already at the exit, will directly convert chemical energy into electrical energy, without rotating parts and mechanisms, chemically "burning" hydrogen from DT reforming. That will be a revolution in the melt, and not this cheap "sensation" for twenty rubles!

          The revolution will not work. Anaerobic SEUs are already in operation.

          PS
          Somehow, the nuclear submarines of the most bourgeois country decided to participate in exercises with the submarines of one Zionist country in one big puddle. The bourgeois were very much surprised, among other things, by the ability of the DPL to disappear ...

          In general, the Japanese fellows. Fleet traditions are strong. good
    2. Monos
      Monos 20 February 2017 17: 25 New
      +3
      hi
      The Chinese will do cheaper, faster and more. smile
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 20 February 2017 17: 33 New
        +3
        Quote: Monos
        hi
        The Chinese will do cheaper, faster and more. smile

        Well, we are all working with VNEU ... when Kalina is able to build, she will be out of date at the project stage ...
    3. Gray brother
      Gray brother 20 February 2017 18: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      No wonder Elon Musk is building his hyper-factory of lithium-ion batteries ...

      This already exists - China is called.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 February 2017 18: 43 New
        +2
        So far, China is lagging behind Nevada. But, you are right, they can dramatically
        catch up.
        The submarine will run on these batteries:
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother 20 February 2017 18: 48 New
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          So far, China is lagging behind Nevada.

          In terms of lithium batteries, they are ahead of the rest. Even the notorious Tesla rides on Chinese banks.
          Americans will never be able to compete with them purely because of cost.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 20 February 2017 18: 51 New
            +4
            This is if people collect batteries - then they cannot.
            And if the robots, even as they can. All new factories that
            built in the States - extremely robotic.
            1. Gray brother
              Gray brother 20 February 2017 19: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              in the States - extremely robotic.

              Chinese labor is cheaper than machine labor. laughing
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 20 February 2017 19: 31 New
                +3
                It was a long time ago. Today, the salary of workers in China is approximately $ 500 per month. (ahead of those in Russia).
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother 20 February 2017 19: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  500 dollars per month

                  This is a welfare in the USA laughing - An American for that kind of money will not work at all.
                  An American unemployed receives 500-800 dollars per month.
                  A black man in a day job receives $ 500 a week.
              2. prosto_rgb
                prosto_rgb 20 February 2017 19: 43 New
                0
                Quote: Gray Brother
                Chinese labor is cheaper than machine labor.

                no
                Chinese people themselves robotic plants to reduce costs
                О.
                Speaking of Robotics
                http://forum-msk.org/material/economic/12844532.h
                tml
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother 20 February 2017 20: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: prosto_rgb
                  no

                  In the US, one equipment installer will earn as much as 50 Chinese.
                  1. prosto_rgb
                    prosto_rgb 20 February 2017 21: 35 New
                    0
                    Quote: Gray Brother
                    In the US, one equipment installer will earn as much as 50 Chinese.

                    how are 50 Chinese equipment adjusters?
                    I doubt something very much
          2. Professor
            Professor 20 February 2017 21: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Gray Brother
            In terms of lithium batteries, they are ahead of the rest. Even the notorious Tesla rides on Chinese banks.

            In Japanese. Our company is involved in their assembly into clusters.

            Quote: Gray Brother
            Americans will never be able to compete with them purely because of cost.

            Easy. And they are already competing. The average salary in a Chinese assembly shop is about $ 1000. Mask will have a dark factory.
            1. Gray brother
              Gray brother 20 February 2017 22: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Professor
              . The average salary in a Chinese assembly shop is about $ 1000

              And here is the assembly? It's about production.
              Quote: Professor
              In Japanese.

              These Japanese may well be from a Chinese factory.
              1. Professor
                Professor 20 February 2017 22: 18 New
                +2
                Quote: Gray Brother
                And here is the assembly? It's about production.

                Is assembly not production? At our factory near Shanghai, the average salary is already $ 1000 per month. And this is for hard workers. The rest get even more. Salary growth is now about 8% per year. When we built the factory in China, the average salary of the workers there was about $ 200. Now we are automating everything there. Otherwise, China will not be profitable at all.

                Quote: Gray Brother
                These Japanese may well be from a Chinese factory.

                No, they can’t. Tesla costs from $ 80. It's too expensive to put Chinese shit. Now there are Japanese elements, soon there will be American ones.
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother 21 February 2017 06: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Is assembly not production?

                  In fact, no. You do not produce batteries.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 21 February 2017 08: 53 New
                    0
                    Quote: Gray Brother
                    In fact, no. You do not produce batteries.

                    We make equipment used in the manufacture of batteries. Our engineers in particular are sitting at the Mask factory in Nevada. However, this does not change the fact of a salary of $ 1000 from a hard worker in China in production.
  2. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 20 February 2017 17: 16 New
    +1
    The main thing is that as if the cell phones did not start to explode! Although if they bring it to mind, this is not a bad innovation!
    1. Wolka
      Wolka 20 February 2017 17: 18 New
      +1
      but "no" must be removed ... so it will be more accurate
      1. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 20 February 2017 17: 22 New
        0
        I agree!!!!!
  3. Slovak
    Slovak 20 February 2017 17: 17 New
    +1
    Have you eaten atomic Fukushima? They could do absolute purity not on batteries, but on oars. They dragged so much time from the nuclear power plant, finally they turned to Russia for help in organizing the process of liquidating the consequences of the accident.
  4. fa2998
    fa2998 20 February 2017 17: 17 New
    +3
    The biggest smartphone! lol hi
    1. Papazen
      Papazen 20 February 2017 17: 47 New
      0
      Only people will be inside this smartphone.
      With a smartphone, the fight for survivability in a fire AB - throw away the entire smartphone. What about a boat? I guess - throw the whole boat along with the crew.
  5. Sergey Ui
    Sergey Ui 20 February 2017 17: 20 New
    +2
    Japanese electric cars stamp, soon submarines will be wink
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 20 February 2017 18: 55 New
      +5
      And not only boats. A new electoral era is coming ...
  6. Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 20 February 2017 17: 21 New
    +2
    Sea water is a natural electrolyte, which consists of sodium and chlorine ions with different charges. So why so far no one has figured out how to use this to generate electricity? The same MHD generators aren't they from this "opera"? Probably something will come up in the future.
    1. Scoun
      Scoun 20 February 2017 17: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Tatar 174
      So why so far no one has figured out how to use this to generate electricity?

      Yes, it seems they came up with, but the power is not enough.
    2. AUL
      AUL 20 February 2017 17: 44 New
      +1
      In addition to the electrolyte, there is still something in the battery, and the energy in it is not taken from the electrolyte. And MHD never stood on one hectare with a battery!
    3. APASUS
      APASUS 20 February 2017 17: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Tatar 174
      Sea water is a natural electrolyte, which consists of sodium and chlorine ions with different charges. So why so far no one has figured out how to use this to generate electricity?

      Sea water contains the entire periodic table. At one time, the Japanese mined Uranus using special sponges. This is a very long business.
    4. gridasov
      gridasov 22 February 2017 18: 40 New
      +1
      Then batteries are not needed as such. The water flowing around the surface of the hull of a boat or a separate device creates ion transport during movement. This forms the EMF in a vector and creates not only the potential difference., But everything else,
  7. RUSOIVAN
    RUSOIVAN 20 February 2017 17: 23 New
    0
    And charging: Fukushima!
  8. UnclePasha
    UnclePasha 20 February 2017 17: 25 New
    +1
    And batteries from Samsung wassat
  9. UnclePasha
    UnclePasha 20 February 2017 17: 29 New
    +1
    The Japanese may build it. I accidentally stumbled upon an article about another cut)
    https://topwar.ru/34897-na-zamenu-an-2-pridet-leg
    kiy-avstriyskiy-samolet.html
    1. Genry
      Genry 20 February 2017 18: 42 New
      +2
      And who sawed there?
  10. alatanas
    alatanas 20 February 2017 17: 32 New
    0
    According to Masao Kobayashi, the former commander of the submarine forces of the Japanese fleet, “this will allow not only traditional lead-acid batteries but also air-independent Stirling engines to be abandoned on submarines.”

    “There are three requirements for the full use of lithium-ion batteries in a submarine. These batteries require powerful diesel generators for recharging, enlarged RDP devices to increase air supply and exhaust gas, as well as changes in electrical circuits, primarily the use of automatic fuses, ”the resource writes.

    If there is a Stirling engine, there is no need for “powerful diesel generators” and systems for them. Only a heat source is needed. The cold is overboard.
  11. Rabinowicz
    Rabinowicz 20 February 2017 18: 12 New
    0
    It seems that such batteries are also very dangerous. And when ignited, toxic substances are released.
  12. Altona
    Altona 20 February 2017 18: 22 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    No wonder Elon Musk is building his hyper-factory of lithium-ion batteries ...
    Will sell to someone. They will need tons per boat.

    ----------------------------
    I just read the title of the article as I thought. that here it is "Tesla for the underwater world" ... IMHO megadorogo. However, the Japanese are not averse to collecting debts for expensive toys.
  13. Altona
    Altona 20 February 2017 18: 23 New
    0
    Quote: Rabinovich
    It seems that such batteries are also very dangerous. And when ignited, toxic substances are released.

    -----------------------------------
    But unchristians do the same. What would you like? hi
  14. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 20 February 2017 18: 35 New
    0
    If ignited, these batteries are ABSOLUTELY hazardous. Even if they are deprived of oxygen, there is something to burn in the composition. Through the body will burn. But that’s all right. Well, a powerful battery, well, you can discharge it to zero, in an submarine an important factor is the energy reserve. Operation will show how true this decision is.
  15. gridasov
    gridasov 20 February 2017 18: 40 New
    +2
    No batteries can help solve the problem. In the end, really thinking engineers really disappeared .. After all, the same MHD generators. in an open cycle of work can give so much email. energy, which can provide all the energy consumption when driving. In addition, the design of the batteries themselves in the form that is used now does not allow for a sufficient energy density. As one clever RUSSIAN said, that an engineer needs to be born in the same way.
    1. pimen
      pimen 20 February 2017 20: 55 New
      0
      The idea with MDG is attractive, but the (intense!) burning process is a problem in itself in a submarine. Those. he can work efficiently only under the snorkel, this is even ideally
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 20 February 2017 21: 33 New
        0
        There will be no danger of the combustion process if you do not switch to higher modes of operation of the generator. Firstly, the same technology for generating email. magnetic energy if it is used to organize the process of movement, generally will not be associated with the internal living space, but to provide e-mail. the energy of this living space uses a closed circuit and again only to the level of ionization of the surface of the expiration and removal of potential on the secondary circuit of induction devices. And thirdly, in order to exclude spark breakdowns, one can use the new technology for connecting power circuit elements. For example, everyone knows that the same solenoid in its laboratory form, when alternating current, works like a spring, i.e. changes the dimension. in the new connection technology, the same effect can be used as positive.
        1. pimen
          pimen 20 February 2017 22: 12 New
          0
          I meant, first of all, the consumption of oxygen for combustion on diesel engine. But the ability to "jerk off or cut short" on solid fuel - it looks really interesting
  16. ikrut
    ikrut 20 February 2017 18: 55 New
    +1
    Battery powered, of course, is good. Apparently this is the future. But, I think, not very fast. At least not for lithium-ion. I read somewhere that all the reserves of rare earth metals on Earth for such batteries are not enough even for the promising release of his Tesla announced by Musk. Those. the mass should not threaten such submarines. But how to develop technologies for the future is an interesting undertaking.
  17. raid14
    raid14 20 February 2017 19: 07 New
    0
    To charge lithium-ion batteries, it is quite possible to use Searl's magnetic free energy generator, or Hendershot's fuel-free generator, they are not as noisy as a diesel generator, plus they do not require fuel.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 20 February 2017 22: 09 New
      +1
      All these laboratory “free energy generators” cannot be scaled, and the Searl generator is completely uncontrollable. All of these devices are more likely to have cognitive value for that. to create a more fundamental theory of justification of the laws of behavior of magnetic force processes. Therefore, they are not applied in practice and they have no development. Especially on an industrial scale. and in the military industries. Everything should be simple enough, have the ability to scale, be solid and have a wide scale of application in various real conditions
  18. Oleg7700
    Oleg7700 20 February 2017 19: 20 New
    +3
    Lithium - Gaia 500Ah ion cell is being developed by LTC (USA, Plymouth, owner: government, Navy, manufacturing Germany, Nordhausen) 23 cells per module, module 1450mm x 500mm x 290 mm weight ~ 385kg. It contains 40kWh of energy with a maximum continuous current of 320A at a voltage of 82.8V. Due to the limitation in the rated current of the lithium-ion battery module, (explosive!) Required 828 Volts only with special design solutions. According to German sources, four new Norwegian Navy submarines, two German Navy (and three new Israel Dolphin-3 ...) will be equipped with these batteries in solving issues ensuring the complete safety of their operation. Amer. the origin of these extremely expensive products allows Israel to receive them at the expense of US assistance ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 20 February 2017 19: 43 New
      +1
      The best solution would be a DC transformer with spin effects. The possibility of creating such a transformer is quite obvious. Just need to expand the theoretical basis of the processes of motion. Induction “coils” based on new principles of magnetic flux formation and dimensional comparison, when a rotating magnetic flux dominates the linear flux, which will make it possible, with small amounts of batteries, to regulate the required electrical demand. magnetic energy.
      1. Oleg7700
        Oleg7700 20 February 2017 20: 24 New
        +1
        Let's hope that the four-headed, amer. germ. er. Norwegian electrohydra will solve the problem. Especially (and traditionally) the Germans are encouraging in everything related to electromagnetism. The first boat is scheduled for launch in 2025 ...
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 20 February 2017 22: 19 New
          0
          In certain areas, indeed the Germans may be closer to achieving real results. And there is a set of objective reasons for this. Firstly, they based on the legacy of such extraordinary scholars as Schauberger. But he really achieved what has remained incomprehensible to this day. Therefore, it is very important that there is a foundation and a direction for the development of new technologies. One can admit that Schauberger’s developments have enormous potential for the development and modernization of his devices, the main thing is to comprehend his methodology of perception and analysis of physical processes in a hydro-gas dynamic environment. We took advantage of this. But they hardly have a complex of such knowledge that can closely relate magnetodynamic processes to hydrodynamic ones. Somewhere but some elements of new technologies would have surfaced anyway. But this does not and does not happen. And the current conditions give reason to use such technologies.
          1. Oleg7700
            Oleg7700 20 February 2017 23: 07 New
            +1
            I am not an expert, but perhaps a real German breakthrough in stellarators confirms them theoretically. base at the junction of electromagnetism and gas dynamics? God forbid ...
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 20 February 2017 23: 30 New
              0
              I repeatedly repeat that if there is a material particle, that is, it has a dimension, and if there is a dimension, that is, magnetic force flows. Therefore, in order to understand that a particle does not collide with a target, but a magnetic force flows in contact, both tokomaki and stellators and other accelerators are useless. They can be replaced by simply shooting sand at targets. Therefore, is it possible to obtain a stable thermonuclear reaction when there is no possibility of a constant supply of such particles. In the torus and according to modern methods, this is simply impossible to achieve. Firstly, there are areas in the torus where it is possible to use the properties of the hydrodynamic flow to exhibit the effects of sonoluminescence, i.e., to carry out a thermonuclear stable reaction as a result of the algorithmic process of motion of this flow. BUT !!! In the torus, as everywhere else, it is necessary to drive this stream, and in accelerators to disperse the particle, so what they spent is what they got. It means that everything should be completely different and a stable thermonuclear reaction can be obtained both at home and on an industrial scale according to completely different laws and in other algorithms of organized processes.
  19. sergei1975
    sergei1975 20 February 2017 20: 02 New
    +1
    Wow mobile turned!
  20. dubowitskij.vick
    dubowitskij.vick 20 February 2017 20: 04 New
    +1
    Quote: voyaka uh
    No wonder Elon Musk is building his hyper-factory of lithium-ion batteries ...
    Will sell to someone. They will need tons per boat. yes

    Fingers on a submarine? You do not know the methodology for calculating the reliability of a system consisting of hundreds of thousands of elements?
  21. dubowitskij.vick
    dubowitskij.vick 20 February 2017 20: 22 New
    0
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    If ignited, these batteries are ABSOLUTELY hazardous. Even if they are deprived of oxygen, there is something to burn in the composition. Through the body will burn. But that’s all right. Well, a powerful battery, well, you can discharge it to zero, in an submarine an important factor is the energy reserve. Operation will show how true this decision is.

    No battery can be discharged to zero, and even more so, lithium.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 20 February 2017 22: 34 New
      0
      In fact, theoretically, it is possible to create a battery at the cathode and anode from the same material. The question is how you will form magnetic force flows in them. Indeed, the same hemisphere has, on the one hand, a vector of diverging magnetic forces, and on the other, converging. Therefore, "to zero" can mean discharged, as a one-time action, then under the influence of external natural conditions there will still be a difference in polarization. By the way, the possibility of creating batteries with "active ion transfer" of liquid electrolyte is being considered, this may allow the creation of batteries with a controlled capacity and pulse. This means that the battery can work as a capacitor and charge instantly.
  22. dubowitskij.vick
    dubowitskij.vick 20 February 2017 20: 26 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    So far, China is lagging behind Nevada. But, you are right, they can dramatically
    catch up.
    The submarine will run on these batteries:

    there must be about 100 thousand of them. With a switching system, moreover, different in charge and discharge (controlled by the controller). And with the most powerful switch elements.
  23. san4es
    san4es 20 February 2017 20: 34 New
    +7
    If such a boat is built, the Japanese will not have enough Li-tia for smartphones
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. iouris
    iouris 20 February 2017 22: 33 New
    0
    If the boat lights up, I warned.
  26. faterdom
    faterdom 20 February 2017 22: 41 New
    +1
    Only such batteries themselves will need to be protected no worse than the reactor, or even better, from any possibility of contact with water in case of damage. otherwise, right under the water, everyone will burn, lithium, he “loves” water. Well, the number of operating cycles of expensive batteries raise the question of the economy of such energy.
  27. dubowitskij.vick
    dubowitskij.vick 20 February 2017 23: 15 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    1. involuntary autoignition (like Samsung 7 model!)

    In NAPL there is no need to push the battery so that there would be no space for anything else and its price should not be $ 2.

    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    2. memory of battery capacity: this is when the charge is not fully downloaded when discharged and a new charge is started - the remaining capacity of such a battery is “forgotten” (!) It turns out 1 / 2 batteries. The treatment cycle is long and based ...

    Lithium-ion batteries have no memory. She is no longer even on my batteries in Makita. But if it were, then complete discharge solves this problem.

    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    3. you still need DG to charge LIAB. And he, at work, rumbles on the floor of the sea, you can forget about secrecy ...

    You can charge it with a windmill and a solar battery. wink It is possible and fuel cell.

    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    But our child prodigy-VNEU (if you believe the OBS), which is already at the exit, will directly convert chemical energy into electrical energy, without rotating parts and mechanisms, chemically "burning" hydrogen from DT reforming. That will be a revolution in the melt, and not this cheap "sensation" for twenty rubles!

    The revolution will not work. Anaerobic SEUs are already in operation.

    PS
    Somehow, the nuclear submarines of the most bourgeois country decided to participate in exercises with the submarines of one Zionist country in one big puddle. The bourgeois were very much surprised, among other things, by the ability of the DPL to disappear ...

    In general, the Japanese fellows. Fleet traditions are strong. good

    Complete discharge kills any battery, and especially with lithium electrolyte. Estimate the price of this device, which comes in a quarter of the cost of the iron itself. There have been cases of aircraft fires. So what are we waiting for. with
  28. dubowitskij.vick
    dubowitskij.vick 20 February 2017 23: 29 New
    0
    Quote: ikrut
    Battery powered, of course, is good. Apparently this is the future. But, I think, not very fast. At least not for lithium-ion. I read somewhere that all the reserves of rare earth metals on Earth for such batteries are not enough even for the promising release of his Tesla announced by Musk. Those. the mass should not threaten such submarines. But how to develop technologies for the future is an interesting undertaking.

    Quote: voyaka uh
    No wonder Elon Musk is building his hyper-factory of lithium-ion batteries ...
    Will sell to someone. They will need tons per boat. yes

    You are deeply mistaken. With the exhaustion of lithium (and the scale of consumption growth is the highest), its price will grow in cubic degrees.
  29. Sevurallag
    Sevurallag 21 February 2017 07: 50 New
    0
    The essence of the article is not whether they will burn or explode, not to assess their cost and effectiveness.
    But the fact is that the Japanese are quietly upgrading and building up their strength, and they are masters to attack without warning and declaring warriors, recall at least the first Russian-Japanese warrior. As then, their intelligence is probably aware of the state of our forces and assets, including those being modernized and under construction.
    They will finish building their boats (as cruisers and battleships used to be) and wait for the right moment, since Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands and Kamchatka do not give them peace of mind.
    Moreover, the rest of the mistresses of the seas and the exceptional democrats are pushing them in every way to this, in short, as before, nothing new. Just a story.
  30. Mentat
    Mentat 21 February 2017 18: 50 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    So far, China is lagging behind Nevada. But, you are right, they can dramatically
    catch up.
    The submarine will run on these batteries:

    You will probably be very surprised, but the advanced hi-tech batteries that Mask produces in its mega-hyper-duper factories are an assembly of 18000 "such batteries" (thick 18650 finger batteries), tightened in plastic. It is not a fact that people who were not bought in bulk in China are actually, as has repeatedly happened in scandals of the US military.
  31. Mentat
    Mentat 21 February 2017 18: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Gray Brother
    In fact, no. You do not produce batteries.

    We make equipment used in the manufacture of batteries. Our engineers in particular are sitting at the Mask factory in Nevada.

    Very funny. What exactly are you doing there? Tubules for cooling finger batteries? good
    Foil production machines? Can drill holes in the holders?))

    This is what is “covered in legends”, assembled with the participation of Israeli engineers Battery genius of all time (more like a scam) Mask !!! Listen to everything!


    The elements themselves the batteries themselves 18650 bulk purchases in ... China laughing Mexico, India. Bravo, standing ovation.

    PS Unfortunately, what Israeli engineers are doing in assembling batteries, not shown in the pictures)
    1. Mentat
      Mentat 21 February 2017 19: 12 New
      +1
      How could I be wrong? Here is a picture showing the process!

      Mighty Israeli engineers carefully monitor so that Chinese hard workers do not slip off dead batteries. An eye and an eye are needed behind them, a voltmeter and a voltmeter! And who else, if not an Israeli engineer, will be able to control the charge so correctly and accurately and invest in the ingenious Mask batteries at the Giga Factory of the Century ??
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 22 February 2017 18: 35 New
        0
        It is worth noting that Musk also patented the layout of the batteries in its entire array. This, by the way, is very important.