Military Review

Russia and India agreed on the joint development of the fifth generation FGFA fighter

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According to the informationRussian newspaper”, Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Vladimir Drozhzhov, reported that Russia and India had agreed and initialed a draft contract for the joint development of a fifth-generation fighter, called Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).



The document regulates the overall development work on the creation of a promising multi-functional fighter. Subsequent negotiations should determine the size of the investment of each party in the implementation of the project. Earlier, the newspaper The Economic Times reported that designated countries will send 4 billion to develop a prototype; development work will last six years. According to the publication, the total cost of production of 127 fighters will be 25 billion.
According to V. Drozhzhova, Russia is ready to sign a contract, but the Indian side has not yet made a final decision.

We are waiting for the decision of our partners.

- he stressed.

FGFA is an export version of the fifth generation Russian fighter PAK FA, known as the T-50, developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau. Currently, the main ongoing work aimed at creating a new engine for the fighter. Currently, the first stage engine is installed on the T-50 - 117C.
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  1. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 February 2017 07: 03
    +5
    I've been looking at the glider for a long time, everything is beautiful, except for the engines. Why are the engines not covered, is this a significant unmasking in the IR spectrum?
    1. Alex_Rarog
      Alex_Rarog 15 February 2017 07: 18
      0
      It seems that the shape of the second-generation engine will be slightly different and they will put protection in this place anyway ...
    2. Vita vko
      Vita vko 15 February 2017 07: 27
      +2
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Why are the engines not covered, is this a significant unmasking in the IR spectrum?
      this is due to a variable thrust vector device.
      Perhaps with the installation of the second stage engine, the situation with the radiation power in the IR spectrum will change. And then it turns out a paradox: from the front hemisphere, the T-50 meets the requirements of 5th generation aircraft, and from the rear hemisphere it does not differ from the 4th.
      According to the representatives of the United Engine Corporation, the development of the engine of the second stage is at the final stage. The assembly of the first experimental power plants for the T-50 will end in 2017, state tests are scheduled for 2018 and, if the event is successful, the motors will go into series in the same year. The engines of the second stage will surpass previous engines in fuel efficiency, specific thrust and resource. In addition, innovative constructive and technological solutions and materials of execution will be applied in new installations.

      In collaboration with India, development timelines are alarming
      $ 4 billion in prototype development; development work will last six years
      It will obviously not be an export version of the T-50, but a completely different machine. And judging by the ambitions of the Indian side, its characteristics will be much higher.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 February 2017 08: 52
        +2
        I didn’t write about the nozzle, but about the engine body itself .... there the whole body is visible, in metal.
        1. Vita vko
          Vita vko 15 February 2017 09: 27
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          there the whole building is visible

          I think that the T-50 case was originally designed for engines of the second stage of Type 30, which are probably more compact than the AL-41F1. In addition, it is very competent from the point of view of misinformation of the enemy, who is now actively taking radar portraits and spectral characteristics of the Russian T-50 and hammering their characteristics into on-board computers. Then there will be a "pleasant surprise"
        2. Voyager
          Voyager 15 February 2017 09: 42
          0
          So what kind of glider are you looking at? These are early stages, nobody thinks about beauty especially.
      2. Berkut24
        Berkut24 15 February 2017 13: 07
        +2
        This will be a variation of the T-50. for for 4 billion a new plane is not done in any way. In the wishes of the Indians there are such points:
        1) Indian software on-board systems
        2) Avionics, allowing you to work with ammunition in Western countries
        3) Presumably co-pilot - weapons operator
    3. vanek77
      vanek77 15 February 2017 09: 51
      +2
      It is because of the engines that India is not yet included in the program; the current one categorically does not suit them. In 2017, they are preparing to install new engines on one of the fighters. This is annoying. OCD will finish in 2020, the engine has not yet worked at the stands, and it should be tested in a flying laboratory, but this phase was missed, and the engine is completely new. It is clear that I do not want to lose money, but nevertheless, skipping the test stages is not a good idea, but we hope that it will work.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 15 February 2017 10: 20
        +6
        In 2017, they are preparing to install new engines on one of the fighters.

        Where is this information from? Are some of Rogozin's old fables? How can this be if OCD ends only by the 20th year?

        It is because of the engines that India is not yet included in the program

        Well, yes .. These guys will “turn on” only if they see that everything is ready on the T-50. Until then, all the talk about anything. The only question is whether Russia needs it under such conditions? Having a ready-made aircraft, why are the Indians needed?
        1. Dormidont2
          Dormidont2 15 February 2017 14: 25
          0
          that’s why Indians are needed, can’t they really find 4 billion, they spent more on the Zenith arena)
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 15 February 2017 13: 18
        +2
        Quote: vanek77
        It is because of the engines that India is not yet included in the program; the current one categorically does not suit them. In 2017, they are preparing to install new engines on one of the fighters. This is annoying. OCD will finish in 2020, the engine has not yet worked at the stands, and it should be tested in a flying laboratory, but this phase was missed, and the engine is completely new. It is clear that I do not want to lose money, but nevertheless, skipping the test stages is not a good idea, but we hope that it will work.

        Absolutely.

        India and Russia continue to negotiate a contract for the full-scale development of the Indian version of the FGFA PAK FA fighter, an Indian source said on February 11.
        A senior government official in India said the R&D phase would require at least $ 4 billion from India. "Some of our requirements were met by the Russian side, but it is very important to understand what benefits we will get from this program before taking the next step. We have to consider the design of the aircraft," said
        India has a need for 120-130 such aircraft, capable of operating in the high-risk zone from enemy air defense and delivering strikes in the depths of its defense. The key requirement of the Indian side is the ability of the aircraft to perform a supersonic cruise flight without afterburning engines. The existing engine does not give such an opportunity.
        1. Dormidont2
          Dormidont2 15 February 2017 14: 24
          0
          on the engines of the first stage, the t50 set a climb rate of 384 m / s, that is, the t50 on the 1st stage engine is already faster than f22 (250m / s)
    4. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 February 2017 10: 45
      +1
      "Why are the engines not covered, is this a significant unmasking in the IR spectrum?" ////

      How to cover them if there are rotary nozzles that spin in all directions?
      1. Dormidont2
        Dormidont2 15 February 2017 14: 22
        +1
        closed already
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 15 February 2017 15: 04
          +1
          Quote: Dormidont2
          closed already

          Are you kidding me?
  2. Alex_Tug
    Alex_Tug 15 February 2017 07: 07
    +2
    I don’t understand something. It seems that India was preparing to upgrade Sushi to SuperSu to train pilots for FGFA.
    I thought I was already participating in the T-50 project.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 February 2017 07: 10
      +5
      Quote: Alex_Tug
      I don’t understand something

      but I don’t understand at all ... why attract the Indians? are not sure what we will bring? how to use subcontractors? cut money? request
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 15 February 2017 07: 13
        +7
        but I don’t understand at all ... why attract the Indians?

        to get grandmas ...
        1. vanek77
          vanek77 15 February 2017 15: 23
          0
          That's right, in the next rearmament program, he was sent precisely for this reason, according to the commander-in-chief: - "... there is no demand for it abroad, there is already not enough funding at home." Therefore, the “minders” are strained with the second-stage product, so they have to put the product on the machine, bypassing part of the bench tests and tests at the flying laboratory, which is also necessary, since the new generation engine and put it on the fighter straight away, let's say the solution is not the best one. Both the Sukhoi and the MiG RSK (with the option of a single-engine fighter) are clearly waiting, but this is the heart of the fighter, such things here can be fatal.
          1. the most important
            the most important 15 February 2017 19: 24
            0
            Quote: vanek77
            Both Sukhoi and RSK MiG (with the option of a single-engine fighter), obviously waiting,

            And at what stage does the MiG have a single-engine fighter? and he, I hope, the fifth generation? or is it only in the drawings so far?
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 February 2017 07: 15
        +3
        For serial production, project payback. India Su-30 purchased orders of 300pcs. They need to be modernized and replaced in the future. Unfortunately, the Russian market will have a maximum of 200 pieces. SSZh-10 became break-even only after the 100th machine, for comparison. Look at the USA with the F-35, what kind of cooperation they built ...
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 15 February 2017 10: 36
          +3
          It’s clear here. A bigger market is serious. That's just the SU-30, it was essentially made with Indian money. If here the Indians do not want to invest before the finished product is available, then what kind of cooperation and technology transfer can we talk about? Want to buy ready? Well, let them buy ready-made, or they will organize a "large-assembly assembly" at their maximum.
      3. Alex_Tug
        Alex_Tug 15 February 2017 07: 15
        0
        Why attract Indians?

        Why attract it clearly, they want to buy it anyway. Maybe Bramos in the belly of the T-50 want to shove.
      4. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 15 February 2017 07: 18
        +4
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        Why attract Indians?

        Not Indians, but billions of dollars, that’s what attracts you so much!
        1. Talgat
          Talgat 15 February 2017 10: 29
          +1
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          Why attract Indians?

          Not Indians, but billions of dollars, that’s what attracts you so much!


          Unambiguously - Russia is doing everything right; it’s hard to pull a project — it attracts investments - it doesn’t print dollars like the Fed and does not set oil and gold prices .. In fact, the Hindus buy in advance a plane that has not yet been created - in advance
      5. drunkram
        drunkram 15 February 2017 07: 26
        0
        In the same way that the US builds its F-35th
        We would be in a parallel reality where there would be peace between India and China, this cooperation would be much more powerful and China would have a normal fifth-generation plane, and not the rubbish that they are now experiencing
      6. NEXUS
        NEXUS 15 February 2017 10: 45
        +3
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        but I don’t understand at all ... why attract the Indians?

        The namesake, the Indians in this project were originally. And they invested their money in OUR PAK FA with the condition that after that, we will create a double variation of the T-50 for their Air Force.
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        how to use subcontractors? cut money?

        It’s not a matter of “cutting money” ... in 2010, we would not have financed this project on our own, and we needed a 5th generation car already then. We decided to attract the Indians. This story is reminiscent of the history of the T-90. Without India, we would have neither the T-90 nor the Armata in fact.
      7. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 February 2017 10: 48
        +2
        "why attract the Indians? not sure what we will bring? How to use allies? Cut money?" ////

        Indians have real money. With them, PAK-FA will bring the foot
        before mass production.
      8. Felix
        Felix 15 February 2017 12: 51
        0
        Sell ​​is a relatively small part of the profit. And then - service, modernization, staff training, spare parts manufacturing - this topic can be processed for decades.
    2. Skubudu
      Skubudu 15 February 2017 07: 15
      +2
      For a final decision, the Indians are waiting for the start of the tests with the 2nd Stage Engine. IMHO
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 15 February 2017 10: 46
        +1
        Quote: Skubudu
        For a final decision, the Indians are waiting for the start of the tests with the 2nd Stage Engine. IMHO

        The decision-making by the Indians will be in any case, since they initially invested their money in the PAK FA project. On engines, not only are they in limbo, but we are.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 15 February 2017 07: 51
      +2
      Quote: Alex_Tug
      I don’t understand something. It seems that India was preparing to upgrade Sushi to SuperSu to train pilots for FGFA.

      No, the modernization of the Su-30 and FGFA are two different projects. The modernization of the Su-30 is planned independently of the FGFA
      1. Alex_Tug
        Alex_Tug 15 February 2017 08: 05
        +1
        It is clear that independent projects. They planned to expand the cockpit there to the size of the T-50 cockpit so that it is easier for pilots to learn FGFA.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 15 February 2017 08: 55
          +1
          Well, if the engines from the Su-50 are in the T-35, and then new engines will get into these places ... the question is: will the new engines fit the Su-35?
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 15 February 2017 09: 44
            +1
            Engines from the Su-50 do not stand in the T-35 even now, 100 times it was said ..
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 15 February 2017 10: 12
              0
              Radar and engines are from the Su-35 in the first production cars. With increased traction.
              1. Voyager
                Voyager 15 February 2017 10: 16
                +1
                117 and 117C are not the same thing.
          2. Alex_Tug
            Alex_Tug 15 February 2017 09: 46
            0
            Probably no. The T-50 is larger than the Su-35 and the engines are likely to be longer than the Su-35. It is unlikely to fit in the same sizes.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 15 February 2017 11: 15
              0
              Why is the T-50 more?
  3. mamont5
    mamont5 15 February 2017 07: 15
    +1
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    cut money

    Yes. + politics. Having India as an ally, as opposed to China, is not bad at all.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 February 2017 07: 40
      +5
      Quote: mamont5
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      cut money

      Yes. + politics. Having India as an ally, as opposed to China, is not bad at all.
      oh ... I'm begging you! India Ally? yeah ...! all SUCH "allies" -only think of themselves ... "Hindi-Russia-phai phai" -a yes gone! at most, a business partner.
    2. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 15 February 2017 08: 08
      0
      It doesn't smell like politics. T-50 must be finished for the Hindu version. Most likely the Indians want to put French avionics.
    3. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 15 February 2017 16: 45
      0
      Hindus are already under the stripes! Now Trump will be announced to them, then absolutely nothing shines on the Russian Federation! Yes, and rightly so, soon we’ll sell my mother. No conscience.
  4. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 15 February 2017 07: 15
    +1
    Raku's mouth was sewn up on the mountain, and the Indians would sign a contract only after his whistle. ..
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 February 2017 10: 52
      +2
      "and the Indians will sign a contract only after his whistle." ////

      He will whistle, do not worry. The Chinese "budget" will be a whistle
      5th generation fighters (stolen and simplified F-35), which
      will be sold to Pakistan. Then India will understand what remains with the 4th generation
      against the 5th. What to do ?: either have your own or buy an F-35.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 February 2017 11: 16
        0
        And the Su-35, which began to deliver to China, will whistle. Economy stealth may appear in Pakistan.
      2. the most important
        the most important 15 February 2017 19: 32
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        whist will be the Chinese "budget"
        5th generation fighters (stolen and simplified F-35), which
        will be sold to Pakistan.

        Those. not quite a good plane 5 (?) generations still simplified and what in the end did you get ??? A glider similar to the 5th generation and viscera from the 4th generation?
  5. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 15 February 2017 07: 21
    +5
    Russia is ready to sign a contract, but the Indian side has not yet made a final decision.
    Again, these eternal meditations of the Hindus. For the rest of the niches of armaments, it’s somehow understandable (there are always 2, if not 3 competitors) and you can help. But who else will help them with the fifth generation? ************ ****** And eh, we can say, we picked him up in the garbage dump - and he draws us figworms! (C) wassat
  6. tchoni
    tchoni 15 February 2017 07: 30
    +3
    25 yards of Baku for 127 boards, it turns out .... A total of 200 lyam evergreens aboard! RIP !!! FY22 we caught up with the price! It remains to catch up on the functional ... In terms of quantity, it will not work to catch up.
    1. Daemonicus
      Daemonicus 15 February 2017 08: 01
      +1
      I think everything is implied there, and crew training and technology transfer and spare parts, etc. etc.
    2. the most important
      the most important 15 February 2017 19: 33
      0
      Quote: tchoni
      By the amount of catch up will not work.

      Not yet evening!!! If the T-50 is better than the American, then it will be ahead of him in quantity.
  7. evil partisan
    evil partisan 15 February 2017 07: 41
    +3
    We are waiting for the decision of our partners.
    Indians can give birth to this decision endlessly. With them it will become. At one time the Indians brought us the whole brain. Although in the end they paid regularly ...
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 February 2017 08: 03
      +3
      Quote: Angry Guerrilla
      At one time the Indians brought us the whole brain

      still not brought back? laughing hello buddy drinks
      1. evil partisan
        evil partisan 15 February 2017 08: 41
        +2
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        still not brought back?

        Hamim? am
        I from India once otmazatsya for my happiness smile . So all these dances with tambourines passed me byyes .
  8. mamont5
    mamont5 15 February 2017 07: 56
    +3
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    oh ... I'm begging you! India Ally? yeah ...! all SUCH "allies" -only think of themselves ... "Hindi-Russia-phai phai" -a yes gone! at most, a business partner.

    So this is a common thing for ALL allies. While profitable. China itself is no better. Naturally, India will not climb against the United States, but as a counterbalance to China, it will completely work. Gone are the days of the USSR (Unfortunately or ...?), When we could tell our “satellites” WHAT and HOW to do it.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 15 February 2017 09: 09
      +1
      She is a partner country, she herself decides where to spend her money .... For the Russian Federation, this is not very bad. For example, take France (the Baltic States and Poland do not deliberately cite an example). They gave an order for ships (not aircraft carriers and frigates) paid real money (not loans) and people themselves did poorly ...
  9. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 15 February 2017 12: 55
    0
    I think that the resolution of this project will be delayed again due to the intrigues of the Indians, a very difficult partner for joint projects.
  10. 501Legion
    501Legion 15 February 2017 16: 27
    +1
    already what year. they are all waiting for something. PPC