Military Review

New delay in the transfer of "Ivan Gren" Navy

56
As the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, Alexei Rakhmanov, explained, the lead large landing ship of Project 11711 Ivan Gren will be transferred to the naval the fleet Russia no earlier than November 2017. The delay is caused by the need to solve a "rather complicated" problem with the demagnetization systems of the ship's hull. "The most important thing is that now scientists confirm the accuracy of the calculations, so that later we don’t have to cut it again."




In connection with the adjustment of plans, A. Rakhmanov expressed regret that “Ivan Gren” has such a hard fate: the ship is under construction almost 14 years, it was not even the USC company that began to build it, and during this time the technical requirements changed three times.

BDK project 11711 have displacement in 5 thousand tons, navigation autonomy is up to 30 days, speed - up to 18 nodes, ship length - 120 meters, width - 16,5 meters, crew size - 100 people. The ship is armed with a 76,2-mm cannon, two six-barrel 30-mm artillery installations, the deck is adapted for two transport-combat helicopters Ka-29. BDK is intended for the landing of troops, transportation of military equipment and equipment.
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 26 January 2017 05: 25
    +31
    hard fate: the ship has been under construction for almost 14 years
    the Chinese have built a whole fleet during this time ... this is an indicator of our economy, and not another Miller gas branch.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 26 January 2017 05: 36
      +4
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      fleet built during this time

      And what should I call it? Thoughtlessness or sabotage?
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 26 January 2017 05: 39
        +1
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        And what should I call it? Thoughtlessness or sabotage?

        I think first of all the personnel shortage, there are simply not enough specialists.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 26 January 2017 05: 43
          +10
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          not enough specialists

          But full of "effective managers"! bully
        2. Titsen
          Titsen 26 January 2017 06: 41
          +2
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          I think first of all the personnel shortage, there are simply not enough specialists.


          The excuse is ready!

          We are fine!

          Not only the mattresses, but even the Chinese will throw their hats!

          Oooooooo!

          Absolutely unprecedented gagging!

          And for this, heads must be pulled concrete!
          1. German1314
            German1314 26 January 2017 21: 26
            +1
            Vladimir Vladimirovich-not Joseph Vissarionovich. Although he promised!
        3. PSih2097
          PSih2097 26 January 2017 07: 56
          +4
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          I think first of all the personnel shortage, there are simply not enough specialists.

          didn’t guess Wishlist comrades with big stars from under the Spitzif the project was overhauled three times during the construction process, then how many changes were made to the project in detail is scary to imagine (by the way, I won’t be surprised if in the end Gren will be completely different from Morgunov).
          And here again the Mistral pops up, about which everyone said that he does not fit into the fleet.
          1. German1314
            German1314 26 January 2017 21: 30
            0
            "Mistral" is already at home Egypt returned
        4. commbatant
          commbatant 29 January 2017 12: 05
          0
          in our Union, such ships were built in the German Democratic Republic, Poland and partly in Finland, so there couldn’t be any specialists ...
          but our people screamed that they would build an analogue of UDVK themselves in the light, tea wasn’t fools, but they themselves could not build the BDK of the Soviet project ...
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 26 January 2017 05: 59
        +4
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        And what should I call it? Thoughtlessness or sabotage?

        Rather, the first. My God, you have already managed to build, plow the seas and write off somewhere during this time, and Gren is still just as young! winked
      3. Sergey Ui
        Sergey Ui 26 January 2017 06: 49
        +31
        * Anecdote: * Russian and German officials agreed to hold a joint rowing competition in eight-seat kayaks. Both teams trained long and hard and, when both were at their peak, staged a competition, but ... the Germans won by 1 km. After the defeat, the Russian team was demoralized. The top management decided to find out the reason for the failure. A working group was formed to prepare proposals for changes and restructuring in the team. After many weeks of research, it was determined that the German team rowed seven and one helmsman ... and in the Russian one on oars and seven helmsmen! Russian officials were hired by a consulting company to prepare and restructure the team. Having received a substantial fee, carried out research, and implemented KPI, BSP and ISO 9001 indicators, the consulting firm came to the conclusion: Too many employees in the Russian team give commands and too little rowing ... After the restructuring, the Russian team looked like this: - four helmsmen, - two senior helmsmen, - one helmsman, - and one rower. In addition, a personal performance rating system was introduced for the rower and the range of responsibilities was expanded to increase his responsibility. For the next year The German team won again convincingly with a margin of 2 km. As a result of another defeat, the management of the Russian team of officials hired a consulting company to audit and evaluate the effectiveness of the team. It was decided to disband the rowing team ... The rower, as the main culprit for the inefficiency of the team, was dismissed, all planned investments for 2016-2017 in a new boat and oars were canceled. Thanks were given to the helmsman, and the money saved was paid to the management as a bonus.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 26 January 2017 08: 44
          +10
          Quote: Sergey ui
          Anecdote

          Yes, this is not a joke! This is the exact tracing paper from our government!
          1. Galleon
            Galleon 26 January 2017 19: 17
            +2
            Yes, it also happens at work that it’s up to the government to go.
          2. andrew42
            andrew42 30 January 2017 13: 18
            0
            and not only from the government. Absolutely the same "oil painting" in 9 out of 10 enterprises of large and medium-sized businesses, including even purely production companies.
        2. x.andvlad
          x.andvlad 26 January 2017 09: 44
          +3
          Quote: Sergey ui
          ... and in Russian - one on oars and seven helmsmen!

          Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! Not all this is great!
      4. creak
        creak 26 January 2017 07: 13
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        And what should I call it?


        And we must call it by our own names - the basis of economic policy in our country is the privatization of profits and the nationalization of losses ...
        And Ivan Gren is really, as regular optimists like to say, an achievement that has no analogues in the world ....
        Against this background, we recall the cries of these optimists that we don’t need Mistral and we don’t need it - we ourselves with a mustache and will build everything faster and better ... Built - we had to urgently buy all kinds of junk from the Turks ...
        How can one not recall the eastern wisdom - no matter how much you repeat halva - it will not become sweeter in the mouth .... yes
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 26 January 2017 17: 30
          +2
          Quote: ranger
          And Ivan Gren is really, as regular optimists like to say, an achievement that has no analogues in the world ....

          Apparently, therefore, the article does not provide the main tactical indicator for an amphibious assault ship - its amphibious capacity and the presence of amphibious landing craft. About the means of suppressing the remaining FROM the enemy’s PDO system, I don’t even repent ...
          In short, not ICE!
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 27 January 2017 12: 49
          +1
          Quote: ranger
          Against this background, we recall the cries of these optimists that we don’t need Mistral and we don’t need it - we ourselves with a mustache and will build everything faster and better ... Built - we had to urgently buy all kinds of junk from the Turks ...

          If there were Mistral, we would still have to buy roller skis.
          For driving UDC through the straits in the "two passes per month" mode means killing their GEMs. And most importantly, for the Syrian express, landing and landing capabilities are not needed, all transportations go between two or three equipped ports.
          In the United States, in parallel, there are "expensive" landing forces and a "relatively cheap" shipping command. The first work in the first echelon, in the combat zone and on the unequipped coast. The second - are engaged in routine supply between ports and permanent / temporary bases (including in the rear areas of the combat zone). At the same time, the ILC does not hesitate to buy ships on the side, including even the forged former Soviet ones.
          For Syria, we needed just an analogue of the ILC.
      5. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 26 January 2017 17: 21
        +2
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        And what should I call it? Thoughtlessness or sabotage?

        Do you mean this place from the article?
        the ship has been under construction for almost 14 years; it was not even the OSK enterprise that began to build it, and during that time technical requirements changed three times
    2. igor1981
      igor1981 26 January 2017 18: 22
      0
      This is not an indicator of the economy - it is a diversion.
    3. Shelest2000
      Shelest2000 1 February 2017 13: 58
      0
      And even more revealing in the history of the Chinese is that in those 25 years that we can’t bring to mind the UAZ Patriot, nee Simbir, the Chinese have created a whole automobile industry that is confidently catching up with the world leaders in the automotive industry. This is an indicator for all indicators!
  2. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 26 January 2017 05: 30
    0
    In the series then they will let him in?)))
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 26 January 2017 05: 41
      +1
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      In the series then they will let him in?)))

      such rates?
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 26 January 2017 06: 09
        +6
        Yes sarcasm from resentment, for 14 years the country got rid of the war and gave the world the word "Sputnik".
        And then this USC once again reports that it’s another year, guys, and everything will be tip-top. Meanwhile, the constant change of leaders of the USC clearly indicates that unhealthy processes are happening there. And no one is afraid of anything --- officials are not ashamed of their words, because there is 0 fear of responsibility.
        1. x.andvlad
          x.andvlad 26 January 2017 10: 03
          +5
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          And no one is afraid of anything --- officials are not ashamed of their words, because fear of responsibility 0

          One of the main professional skills of an official is a "tongue without bones", with the help of which, in an extreme situation, he is able to instantly come up with an excuse or find an extreme one. And so these balabolic managers wander from one office to another and earn their seniority and loot for old age. And also these bureaucrats acquire good connections, often relatives, thanks to which they become unsinkable like a piece of g ...
          These are the leaders who make "a difficult fate ..." for everyone except themselves.
    2. Pulya
      Pulya 26 January 2017 12: 12
      +1
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      In the series then they will let him in?)))

      I’m already wondering how many centuries the entire series will be built :)
  3. Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 26 January 2017 05: 49
    +1
    Lavrenty Palych would not be pleased.
  4. mitrich
    mitrich 26 January 2017 06: 02
    +5
    Something is not just one bonnet in the air: tear-win-better-world .... With a surface fleet we have a full anus. If you measure the size and role of the Russian Federation in the world, nothing is better than in Ukraine.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 26 January 2017 17: 37
      +2
      Quote: mitrich
      If you measure the size and role of the Russian Federation in the world, nothing is better than in Ukraine.

      The thought is muddy ...
      However, I would like to ask: Is Krajina also a military superpower, which the States have designated as the main "unfriendly rival"?
      And you subtly noticed about the surface fleet ... It is difficult to object to the essence of the problem.
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 26 January 2017 06: 25
    +1
    When you build even a barn, and the wife and mother-in-law three times during the construction change the requirements for the object, laughing will you build it quickly? And this is a ship! He can't do without a complete set of documentation. Actually, the project was drawn three times. Each time the estimate was reconciled. Then they "knocked out" funding to change the project. I think the ship was not so much built as rebuilt. As a result, at some sort of "redistribution", the demagnetization windings were forgotten or broken. And without them now it is impossible. Here's another delay.
    1. creak
      creak 26 January 2017 07: 26
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      I think the ship was not so much built as rebuilt


      And the serial frigate Ivan Gorshkov was also "demagnetized" and its transfer to the Navy is still being postponed to July, and it was supposed to enter service back in 1915.
      It seems that this is the case as with the dancer who always gets in the way ....
      1. bk316
        bk316 26 January 2017 17: 18
        +2
        and he had to go into operation in 1915 Mr.

        What are you all the same all-movers Freudo predictable.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 26 January 2017 17: 41
        +1
        Quote: ranger
        and he had to go into operation back in 1915

        belay Well, you obviously got excited!
        In general, read your posts after publication and remove such bloopers yourself as 19..15 year !! laughing
  6. lopvlad
    lopvlad 26 January 2017 06: 55
    +4
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    the Chinese built a fleet during this time


    to build like the Chinese you need to have an independent economy and a financial system like theirs. The financial system of Russia is this part of the western financial system.
    Does anyone think that in the West they will allow us to carry out industrialization.
    No and again no. Without money, industrialization is impossible and the Central Bank will not give money as it obeys structures in the West.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 26 January 2017 07: 23
      +5
      Quote: lopvlad
      Central Bank will not give money

      And who gave the money to I.V. Stalin for industrialization? And "allowed" to hold at such a pace?
      1. teder
        teder 26 January 2017 07: 34
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Quote: lopvlad
        Central Bank will not give money

        And who gave the money to I.V. Stalin for industrialization? And "allowed" to hold at such a pace?

        Weird question .
        Selling works of art, expropriation of values ​​from the people, and of course concessions for foreign firms.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 26 January 2017 07: 38
          +3
          Quote: teder
          Weird question .

          I checked out your knowledge of history! I have no words. hi
        2. Bayonet
          Bayonet 26 January 2017 12: 46
          +3
          Quote: teder
          Selling works of art, expropriation of values ​​from the people, and of course concessions for foreign firms.

          + free rabsila.
          1. bk316
            bk316 26 January 2017 17: 19
            +2
            I do not like your views, but I have to agree
        3. lopvlad
          lopvlad 3 February 2017 16: 59
          +1
          As they say, "The main thing is not how much you took, but where are you going."
          If Stalin would have allocated the funds received from the "expropriation" and sale of resources in dollars and euros and not put them into industrialization, then the USSR would have bent in the early 30s and Russia would no longer exist.
          All the money Elvira has in stocking is allowed or not allowed to be spent by her by the IMF.
          Just recently awarded her as the best head of the Central Bank for crushing industrialization.
      2. Pulya
        Pulya 26 January 2017 12: 23
        +5
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Quote: lopvlad
        Central Bank will not give money

        And who gave the money to I.V. Stalin for industrialization? And "allowed" to hold at such a pace?


        Who gave ... millions of ruined lives of our people!
        All that they could sell abroad in exchange for high-tech machine tools and equipment. All these "charms" only for currency and gold could afford the USSR.
        Kuban, Stavropol, Ukraine, Volga region people died of hunger like cockroaches!
        My grandmother colorfully described these years to me; they survived thanks to the fish; in the Kuban, then there was an unmeasured fish. And for the spikelet from the field - an article!
        Do you want to revive Russia as well now?
        Me not!!!
        1. bk316
          bk316 26 January 2017 17: 24
          +2
          And it won’t work out, they won’t (the west) again step on the same rake
          Therefore, it is necessary to carefully and imperceptibly, as actually done.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 27 January 2017 12: 57
          0
          And were there other options in 1928? Those in which the USSR would not have faced the Germans in 1939 with an army of 30-35 divisions (of which more than half are in the Far East) and an industry incapable of providing weapons and ammunition even to personnel units, or rather mobilization.
          Judging by the reports after the "military alarm", in 1927 the military-industrial complex and the heavy industry as a whole were on the verge of death. In fact, the industry worked for 13 years "for slaughter" - without replacing the machinery, without repairing the area. And without shock industrialization, the industry of the USSR by the end of the 30s would be at the level of 1932-1933 of real history. And the budget, including the military - too. And the size of the army - too.
      3. lopvlad
        lopvlad 3 February 2017 16: 51
        +1
        And who gave the money to I.V. Stalin for industrialization?

        remind me in what papers the property of the USSR was stored and was the State Bank of the USSR an independent structure with the right to conduct an independent financial policy?
        That's exactly what everything was stored in Russia and the bank was completely subordinate to Stalin.
  7. lesnik1978
    lesnik1978 26 January 2017 07: 20
    0
    And what about "Peter Morgunov" !? If there are construction delays?
  8. jovanni
    jovanni 26 January 2017 07: 38
    +1
    In connection with the adjustment of plans, A. Rakhmanov expressed regret that "Ivan Gren" "had such a difficult fate: the ship had been under construction for almost 14 years ...

    The problem is that this has become the rule. There, Gorshkova was again slowed down to transfer to the Fleet ... And which ship has an easy fate?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 26 January 2017 09: 53
      +11
      Obviously in serial.

      For example, this ship was delivered less than 2 of the year (January 2015 metal cutting, delivery to the Philippine customer June 2016 of the year, gaining combat readiness - May 2017 of the year, but this is completely tied to the Philippines), not at all the leading maritime power (Indonesia) at a price 45 million.

      He is bigger than Gren.
      It is more functional than Gren.
      He is roomy Grena.
  9. Bradley
    Bradley 26 January 2017 09: 42
    0
    Pfft, here you are writing something bad, that there is "no personnel" and so on, and in between the Americans Ford (CVN-78), built 4 years and put it into operation for another 4 years (2017).
  10. spravochnik
    spravochnik 26 January 2017 10: 04
    0
    The ship is armed with a 76,2 mm cannon, two six-barrel 30-mm artillery mounts,

    It doesn't have a 76mm cannon. For a long time instead of her "Duet" stands.
  11. Charond
    Charond 26 January 2017 10: 48
    0
    A bad head does not give rest to legs. This is just about the leadership of the Russian Federation.
  12. kirieeleyson
    kirieeleyson 26 January 2017 11: 04
    0
    for a long time it was time during this time to make a stand out of the ship and not to fool people with their heads, as a combat unit it was already outdated by the building of the hull. Yes, and it is clear that at the moment no one wants to go into the development of the project, since
    technical requirements changed three times

    And also the second generation is completing it, but something like that)
  13. Bronevick
    Bronevick 26 January 2017 11: 09
    +1
    Campaign will be cut again. Already 4 times.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. Normal ok
    Normal ok 26 January 2017 14: 02
    0
    For the time that it is being built (14 years, and this is not the end) - it is obsolete. Now I would build something like Mistral, in the Russian version.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 26 January 2017 19: 03
      0
      Quote: Normal ok
      Now I would build something like Mistral, in the Russian version.

      148 years old? No, it won’t! what
  16. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 26 January 2017 14: 13
    +1
    Ndaaa .... completely forgot how to build ships ....