Information war against Russia: the black myth of the "bloody tyrant" Ivan the Terrible

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Information war against Russia: the black myth of the "bloody tyrant" Ivan the Terrible 470 years ago, 25 January 1547, the first wedding of the kingdom took place in Russia. On this day, the wedding took place on the kingdom of Ivan IV Vasilyevich. The celebration took place in the Assumption Cathedral of the Moscow Kremlin. Later, in the 1561 year, the Patriarch of Constantinople approved the royal title with a diploma.

Sixteen-year-old Ivan IV solemnly "was crowned with the Russian kingdom" by Metropolitan Macarius, which meant that the young sovereign accepted the royal title. Signs of royal dignity were laid upon him: the cross of the Life-giving Tree, the barmas and the Monomah's hat.



This wedding to the kingdom was for the Russian kingdom an act of great political significance. The title of king testified to the autocratic nature of the power of its owner. In addition, the royal title allowed to take a significantly different position in diplomatic relations with the countries of Western Europe. The title of Grand Duke translated as "Prince" or "Grand Duke." The title “king” was either not translated at all, or translated as “emperor”. The Russian tsar thereby stood up on a par with the only emperor of the Holy Roman Empire in Europe.

In 1558, the Patriarch of Constantinople Joasaph II informed Ivan Vasilyevich that “his royal name is commemorated in the Cathedral Church on all Sundays, as the names of formerly former Greek Kings; this is commanded to do in all the dioceses, where only there are metropolitans and bishops, "but about your blessed wedding to the kingdom of St.. Metropolitan of All Russia, our brother and the co-servant, is accepted by us for the good and worthy of your kingdom. " “Show us,” wrote Joachim, the patriarch of Alexandria, “in modern times, the new feeder and promyshlitel about us, the good advocate, the chosen and God-instructed Ktitor of this holy monastery, what was once the newly blessed and equal-to-the-apostles Constantine ... on church rule, but also on meals with the ancients, who were formerly kings. ”

Kingdom wedding

Ivan IV was born on August 25 1530, in the village of Kolomenskoye near Moscow. Son of Grand Prince Vasily III and Elena Vasilyevna Glinskaya. After the death of his father, 3-year-old Ivan remained in the care of his mother, who died in the year of 1538, when he was 8 years old. Apparently, the mother was the victim of a conspiracy, she was poisoned. As a result, the young sovereign grew up in an atmosphere of palace coups, the struggle for power of the aristocratic clans of the Shuisky, Belsky, Glinsky and others fighting with each other.

This situation has corrupted the country. The board of the boyar government spoiled to know. Orders were executed poorly, managers slavied, stole. The "vertical of power" collapsed. Around the Grand Duke was a constant struggle and intrigue for influence on him. On the ground, abuses have increased many times, feeding turned into "feeders."

It was possible to restore order in the country only when the Grand Duke took the burden of power upon himself, personally taking care of state affairs. Metropolitan Macarius prepared Ivan Vasilyevich for this. When he turned 16 years, Macarius decided it was time. The beginning of an independent government was to be deeply symbolic. According to the Metropolitan's instructions, the Grand Duke made two decisions - to marry and get married to the kingdom. Marriage gave the young man the status of an adult. According to Russian traditions, an adult was considered a married man, the head of the family. A kingdom wedding was a new thing.

The title of king was special. Moscow rulers sometimes used it, but only in correspondence with foreigners, and in Russia they were content with the title of Grand Duke. Kings in Russia called the Byzantine emperors basileus and rulers of the Horde. Thus, the official adoption of such a title meant very serious applications of world significance. On the one hand, Ivan Vasilyevich declared himself the spiritual successor of the Byzantine emperors and the head of the entire Orthodox world. On the other hand, he claimed the legacy of the Horde Empire.

Macarius developed the rite. Composing the ruling on the kingdom, he accepted the Byzantine designs as a basis, but reworked them for Russian conditions. So, he added the rank of receiving St.. Joseph Volotsky about autocratic power. Macarius became the main organizer of the celebration.

16 (25) January 1547, in Moscow, the bells of the "forty-forty" churches and monasteries rang. The Kremlin was crowded. The ceremony took place in the Assumption Cathedral. After the prayer, the Metropolitan performed the anointing, the Grand Duke was given the grace of God for his ministry. Signs of authority were laid on him: the Honorable Life-giving Cross, the barmas and the Monomakh's hat. Macarius blessed him to strengthen the “court and truth” in his native land, to defend her from enemies, to be merciful to his subjects and to strictly punish evil, and the church was declared mother to the king.

The church supported the young king. To this end, at the beginning of February, the Metropolitan convened the Consecrated Cathedral. In the process of compiling the Great Chetyih Miny (books of the lives of the saints of the Orthodox Church), Macarius collected information about the lives and exploits of the saints who were venerated in various areas of the country, and now it was decided to canonize them for all-Russian veneration. Tsar Ivan took the most active part in the work of the Council, 23 saints were canonized, including the great warrior and organizer of Russia Alexander Nevsky. Spiritual unity strengthened the unity of the entire Russian state.

February 13 held another celebration, the king's wedding. The bride was chosen from the noble girls of the whole power. The choice fell on Anastasia Romanovna from the Zakharyins-Yuryevs. The bride was beautiful and smart. Also, apparently, they took into account the fact that the Zakharyins were one of the most notable boyar families, their ancestors from the XIV century served the great princes. This marriage strengthened the support of the king in the old-Moscow nobility. In addition, the Zakharyins-Yuryevs never participated in any conspiracies, did not belong to the opposition. It was one of the most loyal to the throne of aristocratic families. The metropolitan himself crowned the young. He said: “Today you are forever connected by the sacrament of the Church, but together worship the Almighty and live in virtue, and your virtue is truth and mercy ...” Anastasia made the wedding ceremony not only for his wife, but also “the Christ-loving queen”.

The Black Myth about Ivan the Terrible

It is worth noting that Ivan Vasilyevich became one of the most effective managers of the Russian civilization. Ivan Vasilyevich actually restored the Russian Empire, which was created by the first Rurikovich, but then it was ruined by the efforts of the “elite” —the princes and boyars, who carried Russia along their inheritances and patrimonies, began to be sold to the then West. Ivan the Terrible completed the process of creating a centralized Russian state, a mighty empire power capable of opposing both the West, the South and the East. Russia again became an independent world center of power.

Under Ivan the Terrible, Russia annexed Kazan and Astrakhan, received the entire Volga route, began to explore Siberia. Thus, Moscow led the process of restoring the ancient northern empire, stretching from the Black (Russian) Sea, the Carpathians and the Varangian (Baltic) Sea in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, the Arctic Ocean in the north, and to the borders of China, India and Persia - in the south. The traditions of this empire go back to hoary antiquity right up to the time of the Aryans and the legendary Hyperborea. Moscow also became the successor not only of the fallen Byzantine Empire, but the disintegrated Horde Empire. Horde Tatars naturally became part of the Russian civilization. The union of the Russian and Tatar ethnic groups became the core of the new empire. It was not for nothing that Tsar Ivan Vasilyevich in 1575 put down the kingdom of a Tatar prince, a direct descendant of the khans of the Golden Horde, Simeon Bekbulatovich (Grand Duke of All Russia from the Chingizid family). He became the possible successor to the great king.

Under Ivan Vasilyevich, Russia attempted to reclaim its lands in the Baltic, and to solve military-strategic and economic tasks in the north-west. However, the Livonian war became another conflict between the Russian and Western civilizations. A whole coalition came out against Russia - Livonia, Lithuania, Poland (they then united in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth), Sweden. Opponents of Russia supported the German emperor, the Catholic Rome. At the same time, in the South, the Russian kingdom had to keep its defense against the Crimean-Turkish troops. The state of Grozny withstood this most difficult war with the West and the South; it did not fall apart, showing the enormous potential of a single Russian state. Moreover, Ivan the Terrible showed the main directions of the future foreign policy of Russia: the Baltic, the confrontation with Poland in order to return the Western Russian lands, the Northern Black Sea region, the Caucasus and Siberia (East).

A powerful information campaign was then launched against Russia. It was then that the main methods and images were formed (“black myths”), which opponents of the Russian people used for centuries, right up to the present. Ivan the Terrible with the efforts of Western propaganda, and then local Russian singing, turned into one of the most "scary and bloody" figures of the world and Russian stories ("Black Myth" about the first Russian Tsar Ivan the Terrible; Information War of the West against Ivan the Terrible). And no wonder. It is difficult to find a person in Russian history who would have done so much for our people. Thus, the territory of the Russian state has almost doubled. For the hosts of the West, Ivan Vasilyevich is a terrible and wise enemy. Hence the hatred of him, slander. Although compared with the Western rulers of the same era, who literally drowned their own and neighboring countries, cities in the blood, and which in Western countries are considered great and wise, “pillars of the nation”, Ivan the Terrible is a great humanist. After all, he repressed only a few thousand people. And he suffered from this, his conscience tormented. And the Western rulers, on account of which tens and hundreds of thousands of the dead, did not suffer from this. In particular, Catholic Rome, which initiated the courts of the Inquisition, the execution of "heretics", the genocide of the Moors, the Jews, started the crusades and the "witch hunt", had no doubts about their actions.

Ivan the Terrible in the West was called a "tyrant" who was bathed in the blood of his subjects and exterminates the "pillars" of the Russian state. This idea was spread among the gentry, in European courts, that is, to individuals and groups interested in weakening the Russian state. They sent them to the Russian noblemen in order to lure them to the side of the West, to choose "freedom" instead of "slavery" and "dictatorship". This method has survived to the present: it is now denoted by the term "European choice." They say that in Russia the eternal "dictatorship", "totalitarianism", "imperial habits", "prison of nations", "Great Russian chauvinism". And in Europe - “freedom”, “human rights” and “tolerance”. Also in the West, they actively formed the image of "cruel, aggressive Russian barbarians, slavishly submissive to their tyrant king" (the basis has been preserved to this day).

For example, when in 1561 there appeared a piece with the following heading: “Very ugly, terrible, hitherto unheard of, true new news, what kind of atrocities Muscovites commit with captive Christians from Livonia, men and women, virgins and children, and what harm they cause every day in their country. Along the way, it is shown what the big danger and the need of Livonians are. All Christians were warned and improved their sinful life written from Livonia and printed. Nuremberg 1561. Thus, the myth of "Germans raped by the Russians" in 1945 was only a repetition of an earlier image.

Ivan the Terrible was compared to Pharaoh, who persecuted the Jews, Nebuchadnezzar and Herod. He was defined as a tyrant. It was then that the word “tyrant” began to call all the rulers of Russia in principle, which the Westerners did not like (that is, they defended the interests of Russia and the Russian people). In the West, the myth about the murder of his own son by Ivan the Terrible was launched. The Saxon Elector Augustus I became the author of the famous maxim, the meaning of which was reduced to the fact that the Russian danger is comparable only with the Turkish one. Ivan the Terrible was depicted in the dress of the Turkish Sultan. They wrote about his harem from dozens of wives, and he allegedly killed those who got bored.

Thus, the foundations of the information war, which was waged during the Livonian War against Russia, the Russians and Ivan the Terrible, survived the centuries. As soon as Russia begins to defend its interests, in the West they immediately raise a new wave about the “Russian threat” and the Russian tsar- “tyrant”. At the same time, in Russia itself, this myth is rooted in the pro-Western "elite" and the intelligentsia.

Starting with N. M. Karamzin and subsequent liberal Russian historians and publicists in Russia, the myth of the “bloody murderous tsar” was formed. He was so strong that Ivan the Terrible, one of the brightest and greatest figures in the history of Russia, had no place in the landmark Millennium of Russia monument (1862). In the future, this negative assessment of Grozny still dominated. At the same time, the Russian aristocracy and the liberal intelligentsia were full supporters of Marx, Engels and Lenin. Only under Tsar Alexander III, when he embarked on strengthening patriotic values ​​and combating Russophobia, were they trying to whitewash the image of the great ruler Ivan the Terrible. The exception was also the era of Joseph Stalin - the Russian statesman, defender of national, imperial interests understood Ivan Vasilyevich well. With him, Ivan the Terrible was honored. In recent years, works have also begun to appear in Russia that refute the "generally accepted" historical myths accusing the great Russian tsar of "tyranny" of pathological cruelty, including the murder of his own son.

In domestic politics, Ivan the Terrible also did not please the external and internal enemies of the Russian super-ethnos. The terrible king, having created the oprichnina, showed how to fight with internal enemies who are oriented toward the West or are pulling civilization into the past, preventing it from developing. He showed that in order for Russia to save itself, to survive before the onslaught of the West and to start moving into a “bright future,” it is necessary to suppress internal treason, to bring cosmopolitans and just thieves. It is also worth noting that the oprichnina of Grozny was a bold attempt (ahead of its time) to create a parallel control loop to counter the narrow group, clan interests of the princes and the boyars, the separatism of the regions. At the same time, a rather effective system of local self-government was formed during Grozny. It is not for nothing that the former oprichnich lands of the Pomeranian North and Volga region will later become areas of the formation of the Second Militia of Minin and Pozharsky in the 1612 year, and this says a lot.

The successes of the first king were immense. The territory of the Russian state has almost doubled, from 2,8 million to 5,4 million square meters. km By area, Russia has become the largest state in Europe. The Middle and Lower Volga regions were annexed, the Volga route was entirely withdrawn to Russia, the Urals, Western Siberia, and the forest-steppe and steppe regions of the Black Soil Region were mastered. Russia began to gain a foothold in the North Caucasus. The accession of Siberia began, which will end with the release of the Russians to the Pacific and the emergence of Russian America. During this period there were major wars, forays, epidemics, but, nevertheless, the population increased: according to various estimates, its growth ranged from 30 to 50%. Thus, in two of the most important indicators (territory growth and demography), the rule of Grozny was successful.

The Russian state under Ivan the Terrible held out in the war against almost the entire “enlightened Europe”. The strongest land armies of Western Europe — Polish and Swedish — fought against the Russian army. They were supported by the most professional fighters - mercenaries - Germans, Hungarians. The “German emperor, papal Rome” launched an “information war” against Russia. The Vatican actively led not only the information war, but also the organizational work, it was his agents who were able to carry out a brilliant operation to merge Lithuania and Poland into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (Lublin Union 1569 of the Year). Russia survived the war on the third front - against Turkey and the Crimean Khanate. Moscow repelled two powerful blows of the Ottoman Empire and the Crimean Khanate. In 1569, the campaign of the Crimean-Turkish army against Astrakhan failed. The enemy army was almost completely destroyed. In 1572, in the decisive Battle of the Young, another Crimean-Turkish army was defeated, put to flight and destroyed, despite its great numerical superiority. The strategic implications of these events were colossal. Moscow opened the way through the Volga to the East and South (the Caspian Sea). In the context of confrontation with the West (Livonian War), Moscow defended the accession of Kazan and Astrakhan (the Crimea and the Port claimed the inheritance of the Horde) and preserved the achievements of the previous century. They could not take the Crimea yet, but behind it was a powerful Ottoman Empire. To solve this problem will require more than one hard war.

Also, when Ivan IV began to create a regular army. The most important military reform of the first king was the establishment in 1550 of the year of the rifle troops, armed with handguns weapons. Since the second half of the XVI century. Local land ownership is built into a coherent system. The lawsuit of 1550 of the year forbade princes and boyars to accept as slaves "children of the boyars and their children", the decree of the 1558 of the year extended this rule to all the sons of the petty nobles. That is, now the service of all the nobles was only sovereign and hereditary. The feudal nobility could no longer form their servants and military detachments of nobles. The founding document was the 1556 Service Code of the Year. Every 150 tithe exhibited one warrior "on horseback and in full armor." Landowners who have more than 150 tithes in estates and estates, exhibited a proportionate arable land number of fighters. Ivan the Terrible made a noble service of hereditary duty. From this service could only release the king himself. In order not to lose the estate, the landlords had to serve the Motherland, shed blood for it, keep it to themselves and prepare sons for service. Local troops were the core of the army of Ivan the Terrible. Russia had a strong military production. In particular, the artillery of the Russian kingdom was at the level of the advanced Western European countries.

In Russia, there was no mass terror, as in Western countries. Over half a century of the reign of the great king, 4-5 thousand were executed (including traitors and criminals). For example, it was only during the St. Bartholomew's night in Paris 24 of August 1572 that the Huguenots (Protestants) were cut out as much or even more than for the whole reign of Ivan Vasilyevich. In the following days, around 25-30 thousand people were killed in Paris and throughout France. And this is only one event. And during the civil wars in France, the massacre between French Catholics and French Huguenots, many more people died.

Under Ivan Vasilyevich, 155 of new cities and fortresses was founded. So that people could live and work in peace, the system was cut off by a notch, ramparts, ditches, plosokow, ostrozhkov-fortress, guard posts and guards. The construction of the “Great borderline” of the Russian state was completed in 1566 year. Outside the borders, on the distant approaches to them, a powerful and mobile belt of the Cossack Troops was formed. An advanced defense zone and a possible springboard for an offensive was located in Zaporizhia, on the Don, Terek, Volga, Yaik (Ural), Orenburg region and Siberia. Grozny gave his son a strong state and a rich treasury. With the money accumulated by his father, Fedor Ivanovich at the beginning of his reign will build a new wall around the capital - the White City. In the Volga basin, Tsarevokokshaysk, Samara, Tsaritsyn will be erected, another line of fortresses in the south will be built: Kursk, Belgorod, Valuyki, Oskol, Voronezh.

Thus, one should not be surprised at such hatred of the first Russian tsar by external and internal enemies of the Russian people. Ivan Vasilyevich is one of the most skilful and zealous rulers of Russia throughout its history. At the same time, he was a "formidable" king for the enemies of Russia, who dreamed of destroying her, dismembling her, and dragging her along the "fates".
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  1. +24
    25 January 2017 07: 10
    The word "king" comes from the word "caesar", that is, in fact, the title of the king is the title of the emperor. And it is not clear why Peter the Great changed his title from tsar to emperor. At that time, there were only two emperors: the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (heir to the emperor of Western Rome) and the king of Russia (heir to the emperor of Eastern Rome after the fall of Byzantium in 1453).
    As regards the alleged cruelty of Grozny, invented by liberal historians on the order of the Romanov dynasty, from the time of the reign of Grozny, from 3 to 4 thousand people were executed according to various estimates, while about 70 thousand people were executed under the reign of King Henry VIII, mostly monks and ordinary people who did not want the reformation of the Church. No less executed were during the reign of his daughter, Elizabeth the First, who issued a decree on the death penalty for vagrancy. As a result, tens of thousands of peasants, driven out of their lands as a result of the enclosure, were accused of vagrancy and hanged. You can also recall the good king Jacob II, who in 1625 issued a proclamation permitting the sale of Irish slaves in the New World colony. From 1641 to 1652 the British killed more than 500 thousand Irish and sold another 300 thousand into slavery. During this decade alone, the population of Ireland decreased from 1500 thousand to 600 thousand people. By the way, the first slaves in the New World were not blacks at all, but the Irish, whom the British imported into their colonies in the West Indies and Virginia.
    1. +13
      25 January 2017 07: 35
      4-5tych is one vacation of Malyuta from the Novgorod pogrom, and what was happening there in England is irrelevant
      1. +26
        25 January 2017 07: 51
        In fact, during the Novgorod pogrom, 200 to 300 people were executed. And as for
        and what was happening there in England is irrelevant

        There is nothing to look for a speck in the wrong eye, if you don’t notice the logs in your own eye.
        1. +10
          25 January 2017 12: 24
          200-300 people are only noble families and members of their families.
          1. +12
            25 January 2017 14: 35
            Quote: Ivan staryi
            only noble families and members of their families

            Do you think that the king executed for fun? There was a conspiracy in Novgorod to secede from Russia and go "to Europe." Here the conspirators were executed.
            1. +5
              25 January 2017 16: 33
              Was there? Truth? and where does such confidence come from? In your family, an ancient manuscript revealing the truth has been passed down from generation to generation?
              1. +11
                25 January 2017 17: 08
                Quote: Ivan staryi
                In your family, an ancient manuscript revealing the truth has been passed down from generation to generation?

                Well, present your manuscript. The fact that the Novgorod freemen was weighed down by the centralized government is not in doubt. And the description from the annals when thousands of people drowned in the river in the middle of winter, as if there were no simpler methods of execution. Or the fact that in two years the tsar is harboring his family and treasury in Novgorod? Or the fact that at that time the king was building fortifications in the city?
                1. +2
                  25 January 2017 17: 13
                  It certainly doesn’t. You were not talking about the Novgorod freemen, but about a specific conspiracy.
                  1. +12
                    25 January 2017 18: 41
                    in fact, what Grozny did, they did everything - it’s natural for it to be under power divisions

                    Mao in China - tired of the nomenclature and realizing that they are his opponents - made a cultural revolution - otherwise these party apparatchiks, snickering city secretaries, would have killed him

                    In the Middle Ages, all European Mornarchs did this against the increasing feudal lords.

                    Stalin did it too.

                    This should be done now by Putin and the Popular Front - even if the NF is not an oprichnina - and perhaps the oligarchs and governors will not be put on a massive scale - but it is not for nothing that they say that Putin’s main enemy is not liberals and not America - but his own oligarch governors and EP

                    there are thousands of such examples in history — and if you were put in Grozny’s place, then you would have done exactly the same thing — to restrain the boyars and strengthen the state

                    And Western European historians lied to Grozny. But in fact, their own European kings were even more terrible and terrible despots more often - but read about Maurice Druon's poisoning of murder torture, etc. - they still had worse

                    In the same way, they slandered all the prominent figures of Eurasia - t. To Eurasia their thousand-year-old enemy - Rome fought with Attila - and here it is

                    They made a savage from Atilla (at Bushkov I read 0, he rides blood on one horse on one side and tears raw meat with his teeth - on the other urine pisses on horseback - he cuts all his sabers and maybe 24 for an hour) Bushkov was not too lazy to find sources and proved that Attila was the most educated man of his time — spoke many languages, was an excellent and educated strategist and had a bureaucratic apparatus — without which he could not have managed a vast empire comparable to Rome (in fact it was that USSR of that time — where the ancestors of our peoples lived) and successfully fought with app ie house to Rome

                    This is what Western historians don’t like - what is successful - therefore, it is necessary to slander the slander - so they slandered all our great leaders from the steppe khans to the Russian tsars. Stalin Brezhnev Kosygin, etc.
                    1. avt
                      +9
                      25 January 2017 19: 30
                      Quote: Talgat
                      in fact, what Grozny did, everyone did

                      laughing You won’t prove it! And if you nevertheless pin it to the wall with facts, then they will tell you .... And there, in the west it was civilized and cultural, and Vanya No. 4
                      Quote: Rotmistr
                      For many statesmen, repression is an unpleasant necessity, and for Ivan the Terrible it is a first pleasure.

                      laughing Or
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      "Your country is built on blood, it is nourished with blood and drown!" ///
                      The period of the reign of Ivan the Terrible is described extremely accurately and comprehensively. Plus +++

                      Oh, Wei! And what did your people do the same with the inhabitants of Jericho? Yes, actually with all the living things that moved ??? Ahhhhhh! Taki on this team from above was, and indeed - a bike ?? bully Well, just like any Jewish boy is obliged to know the Torah, well, Joshua
                      After Jericho, the Israelites began to destroy one Canaanite city after another, invariably killing "everything that breathes," that is, all living things. The country was horrified by a fierce and implacable enemy. Yahweh demanded that the Jews not spare anyone. If they violated the will of God, punishment followed.
                      so to speak in an adapted version. Probably the translator is lying? True, later studies have proved that "pipes" are not within
                      Excavations of Jericho showed that the walls of the city were destroyed by an earthquake.
                      wassat
                  2. +1
                    25 January 2017 18: 52
                    The fact that the tsar received a message from Novgorod about the betrayal can also be found in the chronicles that describe what kind of monster he was, executioner, etc. Here is just a statement that it was some kind of libel by an almost ordinary beggar raises serious doubts.
              2. +1
                25 January 2017 21: 54
                Has SOG data been transmitted in your family?
                1. 0
                  26 January 2017 09: 50
                  Excuse me, what is SOG?
        2. +1
          26 January 2017 13: 44
          Quote: Comrade_Stalin
          There is nothing to look for a speck in the wrong eye, if you don’t notice the logs in your own eye.

          This is precisely what those who like to compare the bloodthirsty European leaders of that time with Grozny are doing. They have a log in the eye, but ours stubbornly do not notice even a speck in their eyes.
      2. avt
        +19
        25 January 2017 10: 43
        Quote: Cartalon
        and what was happening there in England is irrelevant

        Well, yes, well, yes ... This is quite predictable for the intellectual Lungin, who is melancholy from the movie. Not original, Lungin just screamed like a cut one when his trill about the cruelty of Vanya No. 4 was stopped by plunging into the mountain-a-azdo great atrocities in the then already enlightened West, naturally according to the liberals. This is always the case, first they sing - "But in civilized countries!" Setting as an example "bast shoes Russia". And instantly the roar begins, well, when they are shoved into civilized shit, they immediately forget about the moralizing and the op starts an octave higher, already right away - “What do I care how they have! Mei cares about THIS country! " bully
        Quote: Cartalon
        Another nonsense

        And from your ignorance and stupid laziness, well, to work as a search engine in the hope of finding out at least from what historical period historians "Time of Troubles" in Russia calculate.
        Quote: Cartalon
        Ivan the Terrible, we owe trouble and serfdom
        from the same Unified State Exam, or intellectual education. If, before poking, they would have studied what a "fortress" is and how this social institution developed in Russia, then they would have learned a simple and not very hidden fact - they have consistently been brought to a state of slavery since the time of Petit # 2, who began the Western reforms ", but practically the end, with the secularization of church property, was put by Matushka Katya No. 2. Again, they would have known why and when the proverb appeared -" Here's your grandmother and Yuryev's Day "and was there any analogue on" free "before the shocks like the French Revolution west of this ,, St. George's Day
        Quote: Cartalon
        Ivan died in fear that he would suffer the punishment of the Lord for the innocent, since he knew very well that there were no conspiracies.

        laughing Well, this is really sectarianism, it’s not so long with such glitches and fool to move. There is only one way out - to study, study and once again-study. Knowledge is power.
        1. +8
          25 January 2017 10: 59
          The traditions of this empire go back to hoary antiquity up to the time of the Aryans and the legendary Hyperborea.

          ... that’s the main thing (and for some reason taken with hostility) ...
          ... in order to protect his story ... it needs to be investigated, and at the state level ... it must be recognized that the orthodox (modern) version of history has not stood up to criticism for a long time ...
          ... you need to dig deeper ... otherwise we will, just defend ourselves
      3. Cat
        +11
        25 January 2017 11: 50
        Quote: Cartalon
        4-5tysch is one vacation of Malyuta from the Novgorod pogrom

        Aha !? Then 30 thousand for one night of St. Bartholomew in Paris - this is the "vacation" of Carala 9 with mother the norm! Already straight in the European way, where Malyute to enlightened France! Yes, Vanya4 didn’t think to send Malyuta on a business trip for European experience! Tse already perhaps 100 years to the delight of the Heuropeans, together with the Ukrainians, are now jumping, within the boundaries of the Moscow Ring Road!
        Do you want such a present !!!? Me not!
        1. +6
          25 January 2017 12: 06
          Campaign this same Cartalon from the same school of Estonian Abwehr as Kostya Andreev. The last one is not visible, probably went on a business trip for new instructions. And instead of himself he sent a deputy.
        2. 0
          26 January 2017 13: 48
          Quote: Kotischa
          Aha !? Then 30 thousand for one Varfalomeevsky night in Paris - this is the "vacation" of Carall 9 with her mother is the norm! Already straight across European, where Malyut to enlightened France

          Yes, even a million in one Bartholomew’s night, so what? Spit on them! Thus, it is impossible to obscure or reduce the victims of Grozny.
        3. +3
          26 January 2017 21: 28
          Quote: Kotischa
          Yes, Vanya4 did not guess to send Malyuta on a business trip, for European experience!


          But I guessed Andryusha Kurbsky in his next letter to Bartholomew’s night to poke his nose: here it is, your humane Europe!
          That as if hints: he would do it if Andryusha had something really retort in style: "how much did you pick up ?!"
      4. +13
        25 January 2017 12: 04
        Cartalon Today, 07:35 PM ↑ New
        4-5tych is one vacation of Malyuta from the Novgorod pogrom, and what was happening there in England is irrelevant
        Excuse me, dear, but your "4-5 thousand is one of Malyuta's vacations from the Novgorod pogrom" is downright an exact copy of the version about Stalin's "hundred-pizza mileyons tortured" that is still popular among our liberalistic intellectuals. laughing
        1. +8
          25 January 2017 12: 21
          Have you ever wondered why Ivan IV is not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia in Novgorod? Have you ever been to Novgorod?
          1. avt
            +13
            25 January 2017 14: 56
            Quote: Ivan staryi
            Have you ever wondered why Ivan IV is not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia in Novgorod?

            And here you don’t need to think, you need to know here, but for this, for starters, see when and who put this monument. What kind of blood and to which surname he ranked himself, well, to which dynasty. Then there will be no questions. Especially if, again, you strain yourself from laziness and look for how Vanya No. 4, in the struggle for power, the forerunner of the ruling little boy, has been flattening the dynasty for more than 300 years. But they didn’t calm down even under Godunov. Then there are questions - Why is there no Vani number 4 on the monument? You will not ask stupid. By the way! When Peter No. 1. Ivan the Terrible seemed to be on the unexploited triumphal arch on the occasion of the Nishtad peace. bully But it is necessary to look for a copy in the archives.
            1. +2
              25 January 2017 16: 24
              The question is rhetorical. The answer is pseudo-historical unproven delusional speculation.
              1. avt
                +8
                25 January 2017 16: 38
                Quote: Ivan staryi
                The answer is pseudo-historical unproven delusional speculation.

                If the triumphal arch in honor of the Nishtad peace
                Quote: Ivan staryi
                delusional speculation.

                That is to the profile practitioner, since it is already a symptom for the diagnosis.
                1. +3
                  25 January 2017 16: 43
                  In fact, I did not question the existence of this arch.
                  Do you have a medical education? If not, don't you talk about the symptoms.
              2. +5
                25 January 2017 18: 48
                Quote: Ivan staryi
                The answer is pseudo-historical unproven delusional speculation.

                And where are the speculations? Zhinka Ivan was depicted on the monument. Is she the rule?
          2. +4
            25 January 2017 16: 13
            Quote: Ivan staryi
            Have you ever wondered why Ivan IV is not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia in Novgorod? Have you ever been to Novgorod?

            What is there to think. The city authorities from the nobility who also considered themselves liberals decided that their opinion is most important in the world and only they decide who is good in the Russian state and who is a monster.
            Novgorod is a small town where there is a small fortress. Now take a trip to neighboring Pskov and see who in the Middle Ages was richer and more important.
            1. +4
              25 January 2017 16: 21
              I was in Novgorod and Pskov. Richer and "more important" in the Middle Ages - no doubt Novgorod.
              1. +4
                25 January 2017 16: 32
                Quote: Ivan staryi
                Richer and "more important" in the Middle Ages - no doubt Novgorod.

                This is for the books. In fact, compare the Kremlin in both cities and trade routes.
                Paris called this crusader from France a small town compared to Pskov, but did not mention Novgorod at all.
                I doubt that you have been to both of these cities.
                1. +5
                  25 January 2017 16: 35
                  You throw off photos in a personal? The Kremlin in Pskov is older than Novgorod by a couple of hundred years. In Novgorod, he was rebuilt. Plus, ancient Novgorod was a little in the wrong place where it is now.
                  1. +3
                    25 January 2017 17: 29
                    Quote: Ivan staryi
                    The Kremlin in Pskov is older than Novgorod by a couple of hundred years.

                    Faq Do you want to say under the Nevsky Kremlin in Novgorod was more than in Pskov?
                    Quote: Ivan staryi
                    Plus, ancient Novgorod was a little in the wrong place where it is now.

                    It’s always like that, it used to be and especially not there)) I’m talking specifically about the Middle Ages, and not about what no one had ever seen. Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible. Compare the size of cities and streamline.
                    1. +3
                      25 January 2017 17: 39
                      Novgorod is a small town where a small fortress stands. Now go to neighboring Pskov and see who in the Middle Ages was richer and more important.
                      In fact, compare the Kremlin in both cities.
                      Faq Do you want to say under the Nevsky Kremlin in Novgorod was more than in Pskov?

                      These are your words. I talked about the Kremlin in Novgorod and in Pskov these days. That is why you sent me to Pskov. So, the Kremlin in Pskov in OUR DAYS is much less than the Kremlin in Novgorod. Unfortunately I can’t compare their sizes in the time of Alexander Nevsky, can you give a specific source?
                      And a little advice, specify for yourself the historical period, covering the concept of the Middle Ages.
            2. +1
              27 January 2017 16: 50
              Quotation: blooded man
              Novgorod is a small town where there is a small fortress. Now take a trip to neighboring Pskov and see who in the Middle Ages was richer and more important.

              Cum Clowning. Take a trip to Pskov and Washington and see who lived richer and more importantly in the 12th century)))
      5. +1
        26 January 2017 13: 41
        Quote: Cartalon
        4-5tych is one vacation of Malyuta from the Novgorod pogrom, and what was happening there in England is irrelevant

        It’s true, otherwise we will also remember the Indians, saying how many of their Europeans destroyed, compared with them the Terrible angel. It is convenient to compare with the obviously worst.
      6. +1
        2 February 2017 01: 46
        Quote: Cartalon
        4-5tych is one vacation of Malyuta from the Novgorod pogrom, and what was happening there in England is irrelevant

        In Novgorod, the constitutional order was restored, speaking in modern language, because there was a conspiracy to leave under Poland. and 4-5 thousand is a strong exaggeration.
    2. +1
      26 January 2017 00: 46
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin

      As for the alleged cruelty of Grozny ...


      very symptomatic - Comrade Stalin about the cruelty of Ivan the Terrible ... I wonder which of them was stronger? whale or elephant?

      And in general - this is already 999 article on this topic - so it itches?

      just the same "I ran after you 3 blocks, to say how indifferent you are to me ..."
    3. 0
      26 January 2017 07: 06
      Caesar from the Slavic "tse sar" (this is the king). "Tse" in Ukrainian is still "it"
      1. +4
        26 January 2017 13: 57
        Quote: avaks111
        Caesar from the Slavic "tse sar" (this is the king). "Tse" in Ukrainian is still "it"

        Is this probably from a new textbook on the history of Ukraine? laughing
    4. +1
      26 January 2017 13: 37
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      for all the time of the reign of Grozny, according to various estimates, from 3 to 4 thousand people were executed, while under the reign of the English king Henry VIII, about 70 thousand were executed

      What does Europe have to do with their victims and so on? Why compare with them? Like, - "they killed more there," does this somehow justify our victims? We will measure who drowned or hung more than anyone, who plundered more cities? This is not right.
    5. +2
      26 January 2017 14: 30
      I would not be in a hurry to produce “King” from “Caesar”. In addition, there are great logical doubts, namely .. First, I dare to believe that it was not the Old Russian language that came from the dialect of Latins-Italics, but, on the contrary, the Latin dialect is a cast from the Etruscan language and is essentially a “cousin’s nephew” of ancient Slavic speech. Secondly, when translating Caesar into Russian, Caesar was more often used, and not Tsar at all. Here, I dare to note that the "king" was applied to the Horde, but almost nothing to Byzantium. And thirdly, the Latin "Caesar" itself is essentially a post-antique remake, based on the proper name of a specific character in Roman history, who designed the mogul of the republican order. So not Caesar, but the King. Otherwise, “firsthand” can be deduced from the word “watch”, which will be the same self-abasement for a Russian person.
    6. 0
      27 January 2017 09: 47
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      The word "king" comes from the word "Caesar", that is, in fact, the title of the king is the title of emperor
      Why then Batu and Uzbek in Russia called the kings and painted them in crowns?
      In eastern languages ​​there is a word "sar" - ruler. For example, the khan rate of the Golden Horde was called the Shed.
      Only Romanovs became real tsars in Russia. Under Grozny, the tsar’s army was called the Tatar army.
      1. 0
        27 January 2017 11: 29
        Quote: ism_ek
        For example, the khan rate of the Golden Horde was called the Shed.

        The barn translates as Palace.
  2. +14
    25 January 2017 07: 20
    Another nonsense, Ivan the Terrible, we owe trouble and serfdom, Ivan died in fear that he would suffer the punishment of the Lord for the innocent, since he knew very well that there were no conspiracies. To start a war with Livonia, fighting with Crimea is the height of state wisdom, according to the author, the neighbors should have let themselves conquer without resistance
    1. +8
      25 January 2017 07: 38
      Another mantra is "doubled". Already twice repeated, that would come to the consciousness of everyone. But how much the population has decreased, there is no mantra ... That people - the land is more important! Meanwhile, with effective management, both grows.
      Somehow back in Soviet times, namely in 1985, I played one of the first computer games, even without animation - only text. He ruled the Republic of Typhoon. Some of his fellow graduate students managed to hold out for two years and was overthrown by the revolution, someone died of hunger for five years. Even the leader was surprised to me) I managed to stay in power for 92 years !!! In the end, the computer said: you and two surviving citizens of your country managed to get over to neighboring Honduras. That is, the record of the government is obvious. The revolution did not overthrow me, the enemies did not drive me away, the people died out gradually and did not show discontent ... It all ended in "peace" and depopulation.
      1. +10
        25 January 2017 11: 08
        Quote: kalibr
        It all ended in "peace" and depopulation.

        ... so this is the WEST dream of Russia!
      2. Cat
        +11
        25 January 2017 12: 05
        Vyacheslav Olegovich! Where do we get the "hackneyed cliche" that during the reign of Ivan the Terrible IV, the population of Muscovy decreased?
        Refer to Karamzin, eyewitnesses of foreigners or Polish booklets, do not tell! Church sources are especially worthy, so terrible Grozny began to poke them! Especially when the money was no longer enough for the Livonian War. From this moment, the tsereoany cry begins.
        In reality, Russia has grown in land, people and income. It's a pity that everything failed. Another "ghoul" Peter the Great had to bring to mind, who, according to modern liberals, also did everything "wrong"!
        1. +8
          25 January 2017 12: 26
          What sources do you refer to? The church is lying, Karamzin is lying, eyewitnesses are lying ... What to read? Enlighten the orphans and the wretched!
          1. +1
            26 January 2017 13: 59
            Quote: Ivan staryi
            ... what to read?

            Internet, now for many this is the ultimate truth laughing
        2. +8
          25 January 2017 15: 04
          Church sources are especially worthy, so terrible Grozny began to poke them!

          oh, I promised not to take part in the discussion on Ivan the Terrible anymore, but I can't help telling a historical anecdote, however, about the "ghoul" of Peter the Great. Naturally, the case is fictional, but funny.
          When Peter ordered the bells to be removed and melted down for cannons, icons were "pacified" in many churches, which was a bad sign. To which the tsar said: "Lords, saints! I command that the Theotokos not cry from now on. And if the Mother of God cries with lamp oil at least once, then the priests' backs will cry in blood." And .. the myrrh-streaming stopped at once! The phrase of the order is invented, but the case of public exposure of the artificial myrrh-streaming of icons by Peter the Great did take place in his life. But whether he threatened the priests - God knows. with respect, hi
          1. +9
            25 January 2017 18: 47
            Ivan staryi
            What to read? Enlighten the orphans and the wretched!


            Vyacheslav Manyagin. John the Terrible. Without lies and myths

            Metropolitan John (Snychev) The Autocracy of the Spirit

            Yerchak V.M "The Word and Work of John the Terrible."

            It must be borne in mind that they want to push us against the Turkic world, with Muslims.
            Maternal John the Terrible was a distant descendant of Genghis Khan, and on the other hand he is a descendant of the Serbian princes Nemanichi. His family tree goes back to the emperor of the First and Second Rome Augustus, from whom Rurik. Thus, he was a successor to the imperial family. That’s why so much dirt pours on him.
            Under Tsar Ivan the Terrible, the territory of our country increased 30 times. The negative attitude towards the tsar as a result casts doubt on the Kazan campaign and the annexation of Siberia, i.e. we chop the branch on which we sit. This can not be done in any case.
            1. +2
              25 January 2017 20: 24
              Why so? Any ruler at that time had to grab as much land as he could, Yuri Dolgoruky was nicknamed for this. And this is normal! Any protest should have been executed, burned, strangled and hanged - to strengthen his power. So everyone did then! You don’t need to make a saint from such a ruler, in whom something happened, something is not - the son of his cruel age. That's all.
            2. 0
              26 January 2017 16: 39
              Quote: Alena Frolovna
              Under Tsar Ivan the Terrible, the territory of our country increased 30 times

              And how many times did the British monarchs increase their territory? Something you do not hurt them.
        3. +3
          25 January 2017 16: 10
          There are a lot of documents where the nobles complain about depopulation and the fact that they are not in service. There is the State Archive of Ancient Acts - all this is there and this is not a "stamp".
          1. Cat
            +8
            25 January 2017 18: 14
            Vyacheslav Olegovich I draw your attention to the comment above my respected Nikolai (Mikado).
            Look for someone profitable! Motives!
            The policy of the boyars and nobles led to a deterioration in the welfare of the peasants. Power begins a course towards enslavement of the rural population. The sets in the army and much more gave impetus to the migration of the population to new territories! Which significantly reduced the well-being of the elite and the local nobility. But not mass deaths. Far from leaving for the best share. Settled outskirts. Bad years fell on B. Godunov, then yes the population of the state fell sharply.
            I did not take into account war losses and epidemics.
            1. 0
              26 January 2017 09: 52
              Vladislav, you were the first to say that yesterday I also had an idea that "depopulation" could mean not extinction, but resettlement - it's good that the territory where to run away has increased. Yes, the people were looking for a better life. I suspect that the most desperate fled to the Don, the Urals and Siberia hi
              1. +2
                26 January 2017 11: 15
                They ran, yes! But ... the number of FEDERAL PEOPLE DECREASED AT THIS and the country went bankrupt! How do you not understand this! People didn’t run away from a good life. And taxes, running away, did not carry! And not in military production the main source of income, in TAX !!!
                1. +2
                  26 January 2017 11: 38
                  How do you not understand this! People didn’t run away from a good life. And taxes, running away, did not carry!

                  We all perfectly understand that the estates were getting poorer, and our nobles were not pirates of the Caribbean to live on prey. And that when the peasants run away, it is impossible to manage either the estate or the land army to bring a campaign with them. Just clarified the concept of "depopulated." For many associations - if it was depopulated, then they were cut out under the root.
                  You don’t need to make a saint from such a ruler, in whom something happened, something is not - the son of his cruel age.

                  I absolutely agree with you on this! The icon from Ivan the Terrible is definitely not worth doing.
                  We have several historical characters on the forum to discuss - there will certainly be abuse. This is Ivan the Terrible, Joseph Stalin, Admiral Kolchak. Some make an icon of them, others consider monsters whom the light has not seen. Both are wrong. IMHO, according to Kolchak, it was you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, who suggested the most reasonable idea on the forum. with respect hi
          2. 0
            26 January 2017 07: 51
            Have you seen these documents? In the hands of holding? Are there at least photocopies?
            1. +2
              26 January 2017 11: 18
              I read the lists of documents stored there and saw a photocopy from one of them. To study everything I was off topic. But they are. Every year, local troops gathered to watch "horse, crowded and armed." And it was indicated "against the good times, that it would not get worse!". And it got worse! There were piles of complaints - "service is inconsequential, people have become scanty ...".
        4. +4
          25 January 2017 16: 18
          Quote: Kotischa
          "ghoul" Peter the Great

          He was. Lierales, on the contrary, love him.
        5. +1
          27 January 2017 09: 52
          Quote: Kotischa
          In fact, Russia has grown land, people and income.

          Where did it grow? Kazan? Read the history of the war with the Cheremis. Siberia? When Grozny died, all of Siberia accounted for a detachment of 20 Cossacks.
          But Russia lost access to the Baltic Sea under Grozny, plus Moscow was burned by the Tatars
          1. +1
            27 January 2017 18: 44
            Quote: ism_ek
            Where did it grow?

            You look to the school or google map as Russia expanded.
            Quote: ism_ek
            But Russia lost access to the Baltic Sea under Grozny, plus Moscow was burned by the Tatars

            Moscow burned every ten years because it was wooden and only with the construction of a stone building did big fires stop.
            Sense of access to the sea if there are no ports? It’s just that the Russian tsars didn’t think of peting the Russians by Petit by building a city in a swamp. They strove to conquer a good harbor.
            1. 0
              28 January 2017 16: 03
              Quotation: blooded man
              You look to the school or google map as Russia expanded.

              Do not be stupid. What specific territories did Russia join under Ivan the Terrible?
              Quote: ism_ek
              Kazan? Read the history of the war with the Cheremis. Siberia? When Grozny died, all of Siberia accounted for a detachment of 20 Cossacks.
              1. 0
                28 January 2017 18: 55
                Quote: ism_ek
                Do not be stupid.?

                This tells me a person who doesn’t use Google.
                What does cheremis have to do with it? Yes, at least 1 Cossack in all of Siberia, what will it change?
      3. +3
        25 January 2017 14: 37
        Quote: kalibr
        But how much the mantra population has declined ...

        How much?
      4. +5
        25 January 2017 17: 19
        Quote: kalibr
        What people - the earth is more important!
        And you do not agree to give life for the Motherland, voluntarily? Well then you need to help ....
        Once, in Soviet times, namely in 1985, he played one of the first computer games, even without animation - only text. He ruled the Republic of Typhoon. Some of the fellow graduate students managed to hold on for two years and were overthrown by the revolution, while some five years of the people died out of starvation. I was even surprised by the leader) managed to hold on to power for 92 years !!! At the end, the computer issued: you and the two surviving citizens of your country managed to move to neighboring Honduras. That is, the record of the government is obvious. The revolution did not overthrow me, the enemies did not drive me out, the people died out gradually and did not show discontent ... It all ended in "peace" and depopulation.

        Did you understand what you wrote? As a result of successful management two surviving citizens ... Yes, Ivan the Terrible is resting. And about Honduras successfully inserted, stole and in Honduras, deftly.
        1. +3
          25 January 2017 20: 31
          And you do not agree to give life for the Motherland, voluntarily? Well then you need to help ....

          It’s not a sin to give for the good, but for the bad - you need to think about it. And why immediately for the homeland? Maybe the state is bad? Gentlemen, they don’t know how to control, but slaves for tanks lie down ?! And nevermind ?! What did Lenin say? We turn the imperialist war into a civil war and ... throw off, nafig, bad power. He didn’t call, we will win first, then we will do the revolution. No, first we will betray the state (or the Motherland ?!) And only then ... Did he say all this? Spoke! Wrote? I wrote! And now lies in the mausoleum! But ... there is no consciousness in the head and nothing. And if you are not, there is no homeland, no state, eh?
    2. +8
      25 January 2017 10: 31
      Quote: Cartalon
      Another nonsense, Ivan the Terrible, we owe troubled and serfdom,
      I agree, only Dope with a capital letter. Iva Grozny did not declare trouble and serfdom did not introduce.
      Ivan died in fear that he would suffer the punishment of the Lord for the innocent,
      I apologize, stood next to you and kept a candle?
      since he knew very well that there were no conspiracies.
      He did not know this, but you did not bother to warn him
      To start a war with Livonia, fighting the Crimea is the height of state wisdom, according to the author, the neighbors should have let themselves conquer without resistance

      Return grandfather, God himself ordered. But the Vatican gathered everyone and suggested "how to beat the dad with a crowd"
      1. +9
        25 January 2017 10: 46
        It was Grozny who introduced serfdom, and returned grandfather, his grandfather did not try to fight on three fronts, but did things skillfully.
        1. +17
          25 January 2017 11: 26
          Quote: Cartalon
          It was Grozny who introduced serfdom

          Oh, you’d like to insert your own bite into a string! Ivan Vasilievich died in 1584.
          I have long read the booklet that enslavement began after Ivan 4, under Fyodor Ioannovich, and was legislated under Boris Godunov. Here is the information for you:
          http://www.gumer.info/bibliotek_Buks/History/skr1
          /12.php
          "On November 24, 1597, the government issued the first detailed law on the enslavement of the peasants. By the time the law was timed to coincide with St. George's Day: it was issued two days before its onset."
          Next time, wait for the sunrise. negative
    3. +11
      25 January 2017 10: 42
      Quote: Cartalon
      Another nonsense


      The passage was especially pleased:
      Author: Moscow led the process recovery ancient northern empireextending from the Black (Russian) Sea, the Carpathians and the Varyazhsky (Baltic) Sea in the west, to Pacific - in the east, The Arctic Ocean - in the north, and to the borders of China, India and Persia - in the south.


      It is unfortunate that the author did not reveal the secret of the name of this empire, the years of existence and its rulers. lol
      1. +3
        25 January 2017 16: 13
        They wrote to you that this is an eructation of ancient Hyperborea. You should be imbued with this word, and understand that you are a descendant of the Hyperboreans, and you ... bring doubt, take away people from tsotsk ...
      2. +1
        26 January 2017 14: 06
        Quote: Olgovich
        It is unfortunate that the author did not reveal the secret of the name of this empire, the years of existence and its rulers

        REN TV nervously lit a cigarette laughing Samsonov outdid them!
    4. 0
      2 February 2017 01: 49
      Quote: Cartalon
      Ivan died in fear that he would suffer the punishment of the Lord for the innocent, since he knew very well that there were no conspiracies.

      Actually, the correspondence between the top of the boyars was intercepted, and there are letters from Grozny to Sigismund on behalf of the boyars. So Ivan the Terrible had fun, until the scale of the conspiracy was revealed. Then there was no time for entertainment.
  3. +6
    25 January 2017 07: 33
    Yeah, really. That the article says so much in the comments that .... The word KING is much more ancient Caesar, this Caesar - * Cesare * was called * fashionable * name, look and find. Today they call names including * SLAV *, just do not follow the rules on naming.
    The fact that in the annals there is a phrase * honestly and menacingly * indicates a desire specifically for such a government. The fact that for the sake of * the highest order * and by virtue of toadness the nickname GROZNY is still trying * to translate * arbitrarily well this also speaks of a scientific qualification and a triumphant fawning.
    1. Cat
      +1
      25 January 2017 12: 07
      Tsar - Latin "Rex".!?
  4. +8
    25 January 2017 07: 37
    As a result, the young sovereign grew up in an atmosphere of palace coups
    ... Let me know which ones? .. I wanted to know about at least one palace coup during Grozny’s early childhood ... who overthrew whom?
  5. +10
    25 January 2017 07: 38
    From all that is happening in the media space I came up with a rule for myself not to try to measure the past based on today's morality.
    What is a child in the family for the peasant of the past? Initially, an extra mouth, then an assistant. As it was, the child died - do not worry, they will do new things.
    Quote: Cartalon
    Ivan died in fear that he would suffer the punishment of the Lord for the innocent, since he knew very well that there were no conspiracies.

    Those. his mother did not poison him, she herself died. And his wives were not poisoned. And the boyars for his infancy did not arrange a showdown with him with the threat of death for Ivan himself.
    The time was different:
    Quote: Comrade_Stalin
    during the reign of the English king Henry VIII, about 70 of thousands of people were executed, mainly monks and ordinary people who did not want the reformation of the Church. No less executed were during the reign of his daughter, Elizabeth the First, who issued a decree on the death penalty for vagrancy. As a result, tens of thousands of peasants, driven out of their lands as a result of the enclosure, were accused of vagrancy and hanged. You can also recall the good king Jacob II, who in 1625 issued a proclamation permitting the sale of Irish slaves in the New World colony. 1641 to 1652 the British killed over 500 thousands of Irish and 300 thousands more were sold into slavery. In this decade alone, the population of Ireland has declined from 1500 thousand to 600 thousand people.
  6. +22
    25 January 2017 07: 42
    But what about the lost Livonian war, so that the Tatars again reached Moscow and burned its suburbs?
    Ivan the Terrible is Ivan the Terrible. Ivan the Third was terrible, his grandfather was a collector of Russian land.
    And Ivan 4 is a maniac on the throne. You can recall the oprichnina, the murders of Pskov and Novgorod, the decapitated army, the seven wives of the king, most of whom did not die by their own death. But what about, for example, the fact that one of Ivan’s favorites was put on his order at stake, and while he was tormented, the guardsmen raped his mother in front of the sufferer?
    And Ivan himself loved in a bad mood, went down to the torture chamber, then he returned pink and satisfied and gladly proceeded to a meal.
    In fact, his entire reign falls into 2 periods - the Evidence period (when he reigned with the Chosen Rada and finished off the remnants of the Golden Horde, and when the Streletskaya and Voevodskaya reforms were carried out) and post-Kazan. More precisely, before the illness and death of the beloved first wife and after that, when he became a different person.
    But if Ivan 4 had not entered the second period of his reign, the period of oprichnina terror and failed foreign policy, he would have remained in memory a really good king.
    For many statesmen, repression is an unpleasant necessity, and for Ivan the Terrible it is a first pleasure.
    1. +17
      25 January 2017 08: 12
      For many statesmen, repression is an unpleasant necessity, and for Ivan the Terrible it is a first pleasure.
      ..Well, why only for Ivan the Terrible .. the French king Charles IX on Bartholomew’s night, with pleasure shot at the Huguenots from the windows of his palace .. And the destruction of the Moriski in Spain by the Inquisition is like an unpleasant need or the first pleasure ..?
      1. +19
        25 January 2017 08: 35
        I agree with you.
        I had in mind the great figures of Russian history - primarily Peter the Great and I. Stalin, with whom Grozny is often placed on a par. For them, some kind of repression is a state necessity, and for the person involved in this article is joy.
        By the way, do you remember how in the Eisenstein film the guardsmen and Grozny dance in women's robes? This was a fact, and many historians believe that this is an illustration of one of the first recorded manifestations of homosexuality in the highest echelons of power in Russia.
        1. avt
          +10
          25 January 2017 10: 57
          Quote: Rotmistr
          I had in mind the great figures of Russian history - primarily Peter the Great and I. Stalin, with whom Grozny is often placed on a par. For them, some kind of repression is a state necessity, and for the person involved in this article is joy.

          wassat Oh how! That is, when Petya No. 1 personally tortured, Stalin, to the misfortune of the de-Stalinizers, was not seen in this, then of course
          Quote: Rotmistr
          For them, some kind of repression is a state necessity,

          bully Petya’s just such a necessity was that he was crying and he was going to torture — well, it’s necessary for the state to personally attend and try. A Vanya number 4 ka-a-ane-eshno
          Quote: Rotmistr
          and for the person involved in this article is joy.

          in joy exclusively, well, oprichnina from the pederacy fool Source ? So naturally eyewitnesses! Direct documentaries -Lungin and
          Quote: Rotmistr
          By the way, do you remember how in the Eisenstein film the guardsmen and Grozny dance in women's robes?

          By the way, remember who ordered and supervised the creation of films "Peter1" ,,, Ivan the Terrible ",,, Alexander Nevsky" ?? wassat Maybe to the curator along with
          Quote: Rotmistr
          and many historians believe that this is an illustration of one of the first recorded manifestations of homosexuality in the highest echelons of power in Russia

          add? Moreover, in the 90s, a scribbler was already trampled on the topic, well, Sorokin, remember - it was loud in the media that. Yes, but how is it
          Quote: Rotmistr
          many historians consider

          Eisenstein Nevsky about the fact that who will come to us with a sword, he said? And check with them and tell us, maybe he foresaw the 2018 World Cup and meant "with the ball" ??
        2. +16
          25 January 2017 11: 53
          Every country is full of skeletons in the closet ... But only Russians are called to repentance for Ivan the Terrible, IV Stalin and other "bloody" figures ... Czechs and Poles kicked the Germans out of their territories in the 40s .. Germany does not ask modern Poland or the Czech Republic to repent ... but really, it was a tragedy ... Poland does not particularly stick to the throat of modern Ukraine, but repent for the massacre in Volyn ... By the way, there were organizations in the FRG at one time , communities of immigrants ... from Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Keningsberg ... I do not know for the former ... but the latter exists and is actively working in the anti-Russian direction ... And if these exist, I do not think that they work from anti-Czech, anti-Polish positions .. .What am I writing .. maybe enough to sprinkle ashes on my head and beat my ears on my cheeks: Aaaaaa Stalin is to blame for everything, so now there is such corruption .. Let's learn from Europe .. Napoleon destroyed three generations of the French in endless wars .. the remains lie in mausoleum ... the French respect ... the body of O. Cromwell was dragged out of the grave and executed by the royalists .. Now they are erecting monuments to him and they say he laid the foundations of our state .. They also have an interesting attitude to Nelson .. they say it was not a gentleman .. but they are erecting monuments .. Great Britain made the mistress of the seas ...
          1. +18
            25 January 2017 12: 01
            You're right at all 200 percent
          2. +1
            26 January 2017 23: 15
            Quote: parusnik
            But only Russians call for repentance for Ivan the Terrible, IV Stalin and other "bloody" figures ...

            Well, why only the Russians? Jews still successfully milk Germans!
            But there is a nuance: the Germans, unlike us, the war lost...
        3. +1
          26 January 2017 08: 23
          This is how myths are introduced into the consciousness of the people through the cinema, the most important art (now-after TV)
    2. +9
      25 January 2017 11: 30
      Quote: Rotmistr
      For many statesmen, repression is an unpleasant necessity, and for Ivan the Terrible it is a first pleasure.

      ... you read Karamzin for the night. stop They say correctly - that neither anti-Soviet, then Russophobe!
      1. +16
        25 January 2017 12: 01
        What we always loved and were able to do quickly was stick labels
        1. +3
          25 January 2017 12: 37
          Quote: Rotmistr
          What we always loved and were able to do quickly was stick labels

          Yes, really:
          Quote: Rotmistr
          and for Ivan the Terrible - a first pleasure.
          You hit as always ... lol
      2. +1
        25 January 2017 16: 19
        That is, all Russians are definitely Soviet, right? So to say "sovieticus homo vulgaris"? And if not Soviet, then immediately Russophobes. Putin, for example, called the "scoop" a totalitarian regime ... in public. Blackens .... means ... Russophobe in your opinion!
        1. +3
          25 January 2017 19: 22
          Quote: kalibr
          That is, all Russians are definitely Soviet, right?

          Did I say it? A quote indicating the date of the comment and the article to which it refers, please, plii-z-z! "Yes?" this is definitely yours, so answer: Lev Bronstein (Davidovich) was Soviet? Further: Karl Radek (Sobelson), Lazar Kaganovich, Yakov Movshevich Sverdlov ... Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov, etc., etc. How do YOU ​​think about the "Russianness" of the above "comrades"?
          Quote: kalibr
          And if not Soviet, then immediately Russophobia.

          Let's remember A.I.Solzhenitsin ... So what is his Soviet-Russophobic relationship?
          Quote: kalibr
          Putin, for example, called the "scoop" a totalitarian regime ... in public.

          From a man who carried a briefcase for Sobchak (what a R'guss surname!) And who took power from the hands of Baruch Elson to expect something different?
          Quote: kalibr
          Blackens .... means ... Russophobe in your opinion!

          Once again for a refined ... Quote with the date of the comment and the article to which he refers, please, plii-zz!
          1. +2
            25 January 2017 20: 11
            They say correctly - that neither anti-Soviet, then Russophobe! - But haven't you written this?

            "Lev Bronstein (Davidovich) was Soviet? Further: Karl Radek (Sobelson), Lazar Kaganovich, Yakov Movshevich Sverdlov ... Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov, etc. These are the leaders of the Communist Party and the Soviet government, citizens of the USSR." The metro was named after Kaganovich, Trotsky was in command of the army of the Soviet republic, Sverdlov was an active participant in the Great October Revolution. All members of the RSDLP and VKP (b). Not Russians? Yes! But the Soviet - all 100%. And that Andropov is also ... a Trotskyist and a mercenary of American imperialism?
            1. +2
              26 January 2017 08: 10
              Quote: kalibr
              Not Russians? Yes! But the Soviet ones are all 100%.

              Well done, that they did not deny the obvious.
              Quote: kalibr
              And what about Andropov, too ... a Trotskyist and a mercenary of American imperialism?

              ... YOU said it, my dear! In my comments this is not available, so I "do not sew"! laughing
              Let's go back to the starting point of the route:
              My phrase
              Quote: V.ic
              that no anti-Soviet, then Russophobe!

              you turned inside out and depicted a gag:
              Quote: kalibr
              all Russians are definitely Soviet, right?

              which they themselves denied in the following comment:
              Quote: kalibr
              Not Russians? Yes! But the Soviet ones are all 100%.

              My advice: work only after the fact, you can keep your thoughts for controversy with not sophisticated young men. hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
      3. +1
        26 January 2017 14: 09
        Quote: V.ic
        that no anti-Soviet, then Russophobe!

        Incorrect comparison and definition. For example, all those who fought with the Reds in the Civil were Russophobia? Or Zhirinovsky is an ardent anti-communist, is he also a Russophobe?
        1. +2
          26 January 2017 18: 02
          Quote: RUSS
          Quote: V.ic
          that no anti-Soviet, then Russophobe!
          Incorrect comparison and definition.

          Yeah, I hooked the lover of the "scanty and homespun", so they tried on themselves and the soul demanded justification for "face morality!" Commendable.
          Quote: RUSS
          For example, all those who fought with the Reds in the Civil were Russophobia?

          Fought with (jointly) Reds in Civilian: Jews, Latvian arrows, Chinese mercenaries (read about Yakir), Magyars (one of them shot my grandmother’s brother while crushing the Black Eagle uprising in 1920, http://kaminec.livejournal.com/58471. html Read, there is something about Yeltsin!)
          Fought VS the reds are those who could not forgive them for the dispersal of the “constituent party” and the Cossacks, who opposed the policies of the Trotskyists who carried out the reprisal, mercenaries of the Entente type of Kolchak and Belochekh ...
          Quote: RUSS
          Or Zhirinovsky is an ardent anti-communist, is he also a Russophobe?

          If you seriously believe that the KGB person V.V.Zhirinovsky = Russophile, then I recommend that you turn to a psychologist // psychiatrist.
          1. 0
            26 January 2017 18: 43
            Quote: V.ic
            Yeah, I hooked the lover of the "scanty and homespun", so they tried on themselves and the soul demanded justification for "face morality!" Commendable.

            Why shouldn’t I justify myself to you? What are you talking about?
            Quote: V.ic
            Fought with (jointly) the Reds in the Civil: Jews, Latvian arrows, Chinese mercenaries (read about Yakir),

            I meant AGAINST the red laughing
            Quote: V.ic
            If you seriously believe that the KGB-shnik V.V.Zhirinovsky = Russophile

            I do not believe laughing , well, the fact that Zhirik is not Russophobe is for sure! And whom and what is he "phil" to me all the same.
            1. 0
              26 January 2017 19: 49
              Quote: RUSS
              I don't need it in front of you justified.

              One mistake is not "justified", but make excuses.
              Quote: RUSS
              I meant AGAINST the red

              The second mistake you recognized.
              Quote: RUSS
              Well, the fact that Zhirik is not Russophobe is for sure!

              ... well, then make an appointment at the local clinic for a "psycho". I warned you! / You can be rehabilitated in my eyes only by membership in the LDPR // although also = diagnosis / hi
              1. 0
                26 January 2017 20: 42
                Quote: V.ic
                One mistake is not "justified", but justified.

                Quote: V.ic
                The second mistake you recognized.

                Thank you teacher laughing
                Quote: V.ic
                Well, then make an appointment at the local clinic for a "psycho". I warned you! /

                Why on earth? And why precisely to the "psycho"? Specify to the psychotherapist or psychiatrist? I correctly understood all those who are for the Liberal Democratic Party psychos?
                Quote: V.ic
                You can be rehabilitated in my eyes only by membership in the LDPR // although also = diagnosis /

                rehabilitate before you, and who are you? I have your opinion and assessment as something on the side ....
    3. 0
      25 January 2017 12: 24
      Quote: Rotmistr
      But what about the lost Livonian war, so that the Tatars again reached Moscow and burned its suburbs?
      Ivan the Terrible is Ivan the Terrible. Ivan the Third was terrible, his grandfather was a collector of Russian land.
      And Ivan 4 is a maniac on the throne. You can recall the oprichnina, the murders of Pskov and Novgorod, the decapitated army, the seven wives of the king, most of whom did not die by their own death. But what about, for example, the fact that one of Ivan’s favorites was put on his order at stake, and while he was tormented, the guardsmen raped his mother in front of the sufferer?
      And Ivan himself loved in a bad mood, went down to the torture chamber, then he returned pink and satisfied and gladly proceeded to a meal.
      In fact, his entire reign falls into 2 periods - the Evidence period (when he reigned with the Chosen Rada and finished off the remnants of the Golden Horde, and when the Streletskaya and Voevodskaya reforms were carried out) and post-Kazan. More precisely, before the illness and death of the beloved first wife and after that, when he became a different person.
      But if Ivan 4 had not entered the second period of his reign, the period of oprichnina terror and failed foreign policy, he would have remained in memory a really good king.
      For many statesmen, repression is an unpleasant necessity, and for Ivan the Terrible it is a first pleasure.

      We got it already, smart wise men! am
      Whatever it is, BUT THIS IS OUR FIRST OFFICIAL KING! drinks Yes angry
      1. +18
        25 January 2017 12: 38
        Unless
    4. +6
      25 January 2017 14: 47
      Quote: Rotmistr
      But what about the lost Livonian war, so that the Tatars again reached Moscow and burned its suburbs?

      He defeated the Livonian Order, and no one could precisely predict what the further actions of European countries would be. With the same probability, they could fight each other. With Tatars, he got even at Molody.
      Quote: Rotmistr
      You can recall the oprichnina, the murders of Pskov and Novgorod, the decapitated army

      And also the conspiracies of the same Novgorodians and the struggle for power.
      Quote: Rotmistr
      But what about, for example, the fact that one of Ivan’s favorites was put on his order at stake, and while he was tormented, the guardsmen raped his mother in front of the eyes of the sufferer?

      If this fact was.
    5. +7
      25 January 2017 16: 24
      Quote: Rotmistr
      Ivan the Terrible is Ivan the Terrible.

      If you read the current liberals, Putin personally eats the kids. You are not tired of writing about torture and other nonsense?
    6. 0
      2 February 2017 01: 51
      Quote: Rotmistr
      And Ivan himself loved in a bad mood, went down to the torture chamber, then he returned pink and satisfied and gladly proceeded to a meal.

      Well, yes, but Vlad Tsepish loved to bite bread in the blood of those planted on a stake.
  7. +10
    25 January 2017 08: 09
    Thank you Alexander for the article. Ivan the Terrible was the king who developed, expanded and defended Russia. I have the honor.
  8. +1
    25 January 2017 08: 21
    still king in latin caesar
  9. 0
    25 January 2017 08: 48
    Pronina Natalia. Ivan the Terrible: a tormentor or a martyr?
    http://e-libra.ru/read/313873-ivan-groznij:-muchi
    tel-ili-muchenik.html
    Recommend.
  10. +13
    25 January 2017 08: 49
    "Black Myth" about the first Russian Tsar Ivan the Terrible. 18.10..2016. The author is the same. The meaning is the same. What is the plan. Or does the author have a crisis?
    1. +2
      25 January 2017 10: 24
      Quote: Dekabrist
      Or does the author have a crisis?

      It seems like the same problem ...
  11. +18
    25 January 2017 10: 46
    It is not a sin to focus on some serious topics repeatedly. And the topics "information war" "tyrannical fighting" are now oh so relevant. And VO is an excellent site, and the topics are multifaceted. It's good
  12. +10
    25 January 2017 11: 29
    Ivan the Terrible and was exactly as he was described - a fanatic and a sadist, who left after
    the country itself is in a state of extreme poverty, mass hunger and ruin.
    The reign of Ivan the Terrible was much worse than the invasion of Batu Khan.


    The destruction of Novgorod by Ivan the Terrible - "Novgorod Pogrom":
    "In Novgorod, many citizens were executed with various torture,
    including women and children. Accurate counting of victims was carried out only at first,
    when Ivan the Terrible purposefully destroyed the local nobility and clerks,
    having arranged a court in the “Rurik hillfort” (211 landowners and 137 members of their families were killed,
    45 clerks and clerks, as many members of their families). Among the dead were:
    the main clerks of Novgorod K. Rumyantsev and A. Bessonov, the boyar V. D. Danilov,
    in charge of cannon affairs, as well as the most prominent boyar F. Syrkov,
    who previously participated in the drafting of the Great Chetyah-Miney
    and built at his own expense several churches (he was first dipped
    into the icy water of Volkhov, and then boiled alive in a cauldron).
    This was followed by executions, which lasted until February 15. It was executed using
    various torture many citizens, including women and children. According to Russian
    the story of the defeat of Novgorod [7], Ivan ordered the Novgorodians to be poured with incendiary mixture
    and then, burnt and still alive, dumped into the Volkhov; others dragged before drowning
    behind the sleigh; "And their wives, masculine and feminine, sex infants," he commanded
    opako back, infants to their mothers and elm, and from a great height the sovereign ruled
    throw them into the water. " Priests and monks after various bullying were slaughtered
    with clubs and dumped there too. Contemporaries report that Volkhov was jammed with corpses;
    living tradition about this was preserved in the XIX century [3].

    People were beaten to death with sticks, thrown into the Volkhov River, put on the right, so that
    force them to surrender all their property, fried in hot flour.
    Novgorod chronicler says that there were days when the death toll reached
    one and a half thousand; the days in which 500 to 600 people were beaten were considered happy [8]. "...
    1. +11
      25 January 2017 12: 28
      Hi, wow, warrior.
      Pozhn to inquire - were they personally present when dousing the Novgorodians with a burning mixture and roasting, further, in flour?
      Or not?
      It turns out that you have to believe everything written? Centuries ago? About Trump too? About Putin?
      Or not to believe all the same, but to try for logic?
      How much did incendiary mixture cost in those days? The flour in which the poor fried?
      And - RIGHT - tell me, what is it? How did you rule?
      For example, if we assume that the Red Army raped 4 million Germans, then consider now all of our relatives in Germany. And taking into account .... the Asian-Tuvan-Buryat composition of the Red Army at the end of the war .... it is surprising that the Germans are still Caucasians. European eyes, Celtic cheekbones, skull shape too, epicanthus in place. Someone lied to something, right?
      Let's not believe in everything, okay?
      1. +1
        25 January 2017 16: 23
        There is the State Archive of Ancient Acts, there is PSRL ... Well, it’s hard to get into the archive, you don’t know the old Russian, but PSRL is on the Web. Look, read ... everything is there.
        1. +3
          25 January 2017 16: 52
          I know perfectly well where and what to eat.
          There is also Oriental literature - a library of medieval texts.
          And a bunch of repositories, including the astral, mental, logo and universe.
          Ну и что?
          the number of storage units does not ABSOLUTELY indicate that all of these units are TRUE.
          I’m about this.
          What are you talking about?
          1. +2
            25 January 2017 20: 01
            About the fact that the truth is sought by comparing different sources, comparing facts, and this is a very difficult job. And in our country, an ignorant journalist is a lamp of knowledge and a master of generalization. You can not do it this way!
      2. +2
        25 January 2017 20: 07
        We will not, of course, and will finally open all the cases of 500 thousand sentences in the VO to the rank and file in criminal cases and 80 to the officer. As you can see, there are numbers. There is no content, besides, this is for all four years of the war. That is, 4 million German women do not pull in any way. There is not much left: to remove the stamp secret, sort all the cases by year and type of crime, then find out similar data for the USA and England and write the book "Rape Europe" where all the data with links to the archives will be cited, the slanderers are exposed and it is shown that "there" too ... it was and may be no less than ours. If not more ... When do we start? But let's not start, we will be kicked by these German women. But .. where is the money for this ?.
        1. +5
          25 January 2017 20: 39
          Yes, actually there is no need to start. And if you start, then I do not need a fee.
          The book by Miriam Gebhardt, “When the Soldiers Came”, the professor, after all, writes about 190 thousand raped Germans. Moreover - capitalized by US soldiers.
          And just take and watch the feature film "Fury" (Fury ... in English read Fury .... in Russian -FURIA) and how German women are shown there. And gallant tankers. To be honest, despite the inadmissibility of such a comparison, it suggests itself that the "artist" is not that "saw this way" - but that is how it was. If not worse.
          Then we will raise publications here on VO about this topic several years ago - https://topwar.ru/429-iznasilovannaya-germaniya.h
          tml ...... and the like.
          Looking into live magazines, we’ll find something else.
          Is it worth digging further?
          Scientific approach. You constantly put it at the forefront. And you probably know how and what is being done with this approach. The main thing ... clearly define what he wants customer.
          Accordingly, make a n_u_zh_n_u_y selection of material. And then everything is simple - we drop the minimum and maximum, determine the average, variance, mean square expectation, determine the mode. And - traffic jams to the ceiling. From champagne. For a well-executed order. The main thing is to make a mass sample. The desired mass.
          For if we apply such methods throughout the entire volume of the material with all the signs - minus, plus, neutral - then we get, frankly, nonsense. Which cannot be fastened to anything. Which will not give intelligible results.
          ...
          Therefore, as I see it, the "artist" is at heart, our discussion is at least aimless.
          Who likes pop, and who likes popov’s daughter.
          Dialectics, you don’t know.
          1. +2
            26 January 2017 19: 58
            Quote: Bashibuzuk
            make n_u_zh_n_u_y selection of material. And then everything is simple - we drop the minimum and maximum, determine the average, variance, mean square expectation, determine the mode.

            I applaud from the heart !!! In how all the same, few among the local writing and reading brethren who opened the books of E.S. Ventzel! But the most interesting things described by mathematical formulas. Sincerely, pluses, V.ic. good
        2. +1
          26 January 2017 13: 28
          When do we start? But do not start, we will be kicked by these Germans. But .. where is the money for this ?.

          plus desire, plus political will, plus PR, plus media. And soon there will be no witnesses. Because, as the respected Bashibuzuk correctly said, there are Hollywood films (no matter how true, the main thing is a beautiful picture), and the story will soon be known "by them."
          "The winners write the story." I would add this phrase "the history is written by the winners who seized the media." Even if we collect all the evidence, I suspect we will not prove anything in the West (perhaps even with a good PR), the Western media are working conditionally "against us."
    2. +23
      25 January 2017 12: 35
      voyaka uh Today, 11: 29 New
      Ivan the Terrible and was exactly as described - a fanatic and a sadist
      One more "historian" was drawn ...! "Connoisseur" of Russian history damn ...
      Novgorod chronicler says that there were days when the death toll reached
      one and a half thousand; the days in which 500 to 600 people were beaten were considered happy
      This is from what "reliable" source, not from Akunin for an hour who likes to quote himself ?! Or were you personally present there.

      It is noteworthy that the same people scold Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Joseph Stalin. These same people praise such worthlessness as Nikolai the Bloody, Nikita Khrushch, Gorbachev and Yeltsin. The conclusion suggests itself.
      And you are not a respected resident of a non-respected country, my advice is to plug your tongue into the place where the legs lose their proud name and do not shine!

      P.S. Your country is built on blood, it is nourished with blood in blood and you will drown!
      1. +11
        25 January 2017 15: 10
        "Your country is built on blood, it is nourished with blood and drown!" ///

        The period of the reign of Ivan the Terrible is described extremely accurately and comprehensively. Plus +++ good
        1. +3
          25 January 2017 21: 10
          Quote: voyaka uh
          "Your country is built on blood, it is nourished with blood and drown!" ///

          The period of the reign of Ivan the Terrible is described extremely accurately and comprehensively. Plus +++ good

          Well, whose cow would moo. In your opinion, every day the blood flows and will flow for another 100 years.
        2. +12
          25 January 2017 23: 44
          voyaka uh Today, 15: 10 ↑
          The period of the reign of Ivan the Terrible is described extremely accurately and comprehensively. Plus +++
          This is written by YOUR country, so stick your pluses yourself you know where! The attempt is not counted!
      2. +1
        26 January 2017 14: 15
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        Another "historian" drawback drew ...! "Expert" of Russian history damn

        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        P.S. Your country is built on blood, it is nourished with blood in blood and you will drown!

        You remind me of Irma Grese who worked in the specialized women's concentration camp Ravensbrück, and then in Auschwitz.
        1. +2
          26 January 2017 20: 03
          Quote: RUSS
          You remind me

          ... you, too, remind me now of a drunken bum, a harassing decent woman. It’s a pity that the minus on this site has been canceled, and “sending” HAMA to the address, having seven warnings in the “aura”, is also fraught ... So “I express you not pleasure”!
          1. 0
            26 January 2017 20: 55
            Quote: V.ic
            ... you too remind me now of a drunk homeless man,

            My post was not for you, so don’t waste it in vain laughing , and Ilyina Diana will be able to answer for herself, her comments are already a song, I look forward to it!
            Quote: V.ic
            It’s a pity that the minus on this site has been canceled,

            So you need this in the social network, there you will play enough and pros and cons, and the likes are different, etc.
            Quote: V.ic
            and "send" HAM to

            So this is in PM, we are waiting! Do not keep in yourself, write, write now!
            Quote: V.ic
            having seven warnings in the "aura" is also fraught ..

            Bench press?
            Quote: V.ic
            So "I express you not pleasure"!

            I can not reciprocate ....
    3. +6
      25 January 2017 16: 29
      Warrior again in the trash. Good buh .. go
    4. +6
      25 January 2017 20: 14
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Ivan the Terrible and was exactly as described - a fanatic and a sadist

      They say that apart from various thieves and traitors, Ivan the Terrible didn’t really like the Jews embroidered by their merchants, who profited from the common people of the country.
    5. +2
      26 January 2017 20: 06
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Ivan the Terrible was exactly as he was described - a fanatic and a sadist, who left behind the country in a state of extreme poverty, mass hunger and ruin.

      But was Leib Trotsky all sugar and molasses?
    6. 0
      2 February 2017 01: 54
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Ivan the Terrible and was exactly as he was described - a fanatic and a sadist, who left after

      Basically, you probably mean foreign crooks who scribbled their works under the order of the Poles.
  13. 0
    25 January 2017 12: 15
    Quote: Oleg NSK
    The traditions of this empire go back to hoary antiquity up to the time of the Aryans and the legendary Hyperborea.

    ... that’s the main thing (and for some reason taken with hostility) ...
    ... in order to protect his story ... it needs to be investigated, and at the state level ... it must be recognized that the orthodox (modern) version of history has not stood up to criticism for a long time ...
    ... you need to dig deeper ... otherwise we will, just defend ourselves

    And you had to defend yourself the day before yesterday ... recourse am
    It’s necessary to dig deeper, everyone agrees with this (well, many - certainly Yes ). But does our government need this? recourse request I doubt it ... recourse request stop
  14. 0
    25 January 2017 12: 20
    @ /// Ivan the Terrible is a great humanist. After all, he repressed only a few thousand people. And suffered from this, his conscience tormented.// @ - hi
    You can forgive everything for this single, chased phrase. As there Henry II said, it seems - "... a horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!" ... and here. My kingdom is not there, but a couple of chervonets can be easily unfastened -
    suffered from this .... you just feel, brothers, the mental torment of Tsar Ivan IV Vasilyevich. What kind of Kemsky volost there is .... flour here!
    Joking as a joke, but such an article is quite suitable for historical essays in elementary school. Or for extracurricular reading.
    It fits.
    1. +9
      25 January 2017 15: 14
      "After all, he repressed only a few thousand people. And he suffered from this, his conscience tormented him .///

      Any psychiatrist will tell you that this is very typical of clinical sadists.
      First they torture and kill, and then they repent (“aren't we monsters?”), Pray, forgive sins, do some kind of “good deed” ...
      And - in a new way ...
      1. 0
        25 January 2017 19: 35
        And someone is still tormented by cakes.
  15. +8
    25 January 2017 14: 16
    Since the formation of the Academy of Sciences by Peter I, the overwhelming majority of German academicians from history have been studying Russian history. The archives have been under their complete control for over a century. They did "our" Russian history as they wanted, or rather, as ordered by the Vatican and Zion. It was ordered not to spare the black paint, as well as the chronicles themselves, which were fiercely corrected, and if necessary, they were destroyed.
    Since those dashing times for the Russian annals, we have had hysteria in the Western manner and the pro-Western hysteria feeding it to us. BUT, the Truth does not sink in streams of ink and does not burn.
    The truth about Tsar Ivan the Terrible will still find a way to Russian minds and hearts, no matter how many obstacles her father’s lie servants, Satanists put in her way.
    "During the reign of Tsar Ivan IV Vasilyevich the Terrible, the state territory of Russia almost doubled, the Kazan, Astrakhan and Siberian kingdoms, as well as Nagaya and part of the northern Caucasus were annexed to Russia. The Russian state in size became larger than the rest of Europe, in all Russia established a strong peace with a huge potential for Russia. An attempt was made to create the first Russian fleet. Judicial and administrative reforms were carried out, which was not equal then in the whole world. A network of educational institutions was organized. The Book of Degree; Obverse Chronicle Code; Code of Laws. ; Stoglav; Cheti-Minei; Domostroy; Church Councils were convened in 1547, 1549, 1551, 1553, 1562. They laid the foundations of Church and Sovereign construction of Holy Russia as the Third Rome and the Second Jerusalem.
    During the reign of Emperor Alexander III in the summer of 1882 from the Nativity of Christ, he was glorified by the Russian Orthodox Church as the locally revered Holy Diocese of Moscow.
    During his reign, St. Tsar Ivan the Terrible erected more than 40 stone churches of unprecedented beauty at that time, founded over 60 monasteries, 39 Russian saints were glorified (previously 22 were honored), among them was glorified in 1547 by St. noble prince Alexander Nevsky, 155 fortresses and 300 new cities were built, the population of Russia grew from 2,5 million to 4,5 million. "
    The information-psychological war against Russia did not begin yesterday and will not end tomorrow.
    We see root.
  16. +4
    25 January 2017 15: 09
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Ivan the Terrible and was exactly as described

    I mean, if European kings outstripped the Russian tsar by one or two orders of magnitude in the number of murders of their own subjects, then then Ivan the Terrible should be branded for atrocities during executions? Well done, they were Germans — did they send 6 million Jews into the world with high technology and without torment?

    Returning to the theme of the morals of past eras - after the Roman deportation of Jews from Palestine following the outcome of the Judean Wars, the Jews raised uprisings in the places of their settlement - Alexandria and other Greek colonies in the Middle East. The counter of the rebellious Jews was in sawing Greek colonists with two-handed saws, with all of them from small to large.
    1. +2
      26 January 2017 14: 05
      By the way, the first Christians adhered to Jewish rites (circumcision, etc.) and when during the Jewish wars for sabotage, the imperial administration carried out repressions against Jews, Christians also fell under the "distribution". Therefore, further Christian adherents in every way distanced themselves from the Jews.
  17. +6
    25 January 2017 16: 22
    History is always manipulated. Therefore, for me, one criterion of truth .... if liberalists .. traitors and foreigners scold our ruler ... then he was worthy and cherishing for his country.
    1. +2
      25 January 2017 19: 54
      And when the communists scolded daddy Makhno, was he good or bad? And Josip Bros Tito - he was the "bloody dog ​​of American imperialism", and Nasser - "under the sun of the south, the hero of the Soviet Union, half-fascist, half-eer Gamal Abdul, Nasser is warming his belly" - is he like, who is he?
  18. +2
    25 January 2017 16: 27
    Quote: cedar
    They did “our” Russian history as they wanted, or rather, as the Vatican and Zion ordered. Black paint was ordered not to be spared, as were the annals themselves, which were fiercely corrected, and if necessary, destroyed.

    How do you know it personally for you? You did it, right? Studied, compared the authenticity of documents? Are you an expert on ancient acts and writing?
    1. +2
      25 January 2017 16: 47
      Quote: kalibr
      How do you know it personally for you?

      - the comrade has a bottle of magic tincture. On some kind of "root"
      - the root, apparently, is not simple, because from one glance at it the comrade sticks ... nipadetski ...

      Quote: cedar
      We see root.
  19. +1
    25 January 2017 16: 28
    Quote: cedar
    Russia's population has grown from 2,5 million to 4,5 million. "


    There was a census, right? I'm not trying to "hook" you, I'm just interested in the source of your information.
  20. +2
    26 January 2017 07: 43
    Quote: Bashibuzuk
    Scientific approach. You constantly put it at the forefront. And you probably know how and what is being done with this approach. The main thing ... clearly define what the customer wants.
    Accordingly, make a n_u_zh_n_u_y selection of material. And then everything is simple - we drop the minimum and maximum, determine the average, variance, mean square expectation, determine the mode. And - traffic jams to the ceiling. From champagne. For a well-executed order. The main thing is to make a mass sample. The desired mass.
    For if we apply such methods throughout the entire volume of the material with all the signs - minus, plus, neutral - then we get, frankly, nonsense. Which cannot be fastened to anything. Which will not give intelligible results.
    ...

    In fact, this is not the case. You yourself named the American author who writes about 190 thousand. Who was the customer? So if you have all the documents that can be checked, you will always find where to publish it. By the way, everyone is interested in the proven truth. Even those who don't like it. This is at the everyday level, as you wrote. "Upstairs" looks at it differently!
  21. +1
    26 January 2017 11: 28
    Quote: Alena Frolovna
    Ivan staryi
    What to read? Enlighten the orphans and the wretched!


    Vyacheslav Manyagin. John the Terrible. Without lies and myths

    Metropolitan John (Snychev) The Autocracy of the Spirit

    Yerchak V.M "The Word and Work of John the Terrible."

    It must be borne in mind that they want to push us against the Turkic world, with Muslims.
    Maternal John the Terrible was a distant descendant of Genghis Khan, and on the other hand he is a descendant of the Serbian princes Nemanichi. His family tree goes back to the emperor of the First and Second Rome Augustus, from whom Rurik. Thus, he was a successor to the imperial family. That’s why so much dirt pours on him.
    Under Tsar Ivan the Terrible, the territory of our country increased 30 times. The negative attitude towards the tsar as a result casts doubt on the Kazan campaign and the annexation of Siberia, i.e. we chop the branch on which we sit. This can not be done in any case.

    ... here - with a new generation with new theories and
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Ivan the Terrible and was exactly as he was described - a fanatic and a sadist, who left after
    the country itself is in a state of extreme poverty, mass hunger and ruin.
    The reign of Ivan the Terrible was much worse than the invasion of Batu Khan.


    The destruction of Novgorod by Ivan the Terrible - "Novgorod Pogrom":
    "In Novgorod, many citizens were executed with various torture,
    including women and children. Accurate counting of victims was carried out only at first,
    when Ivan the Terrible purposefully destroyed the local nobility and clerks,
    having arranged a court in the “Rurik hillfort” (211 landowners and 137 members of their families were killed,
    45 clerks and clerks, as many members of their families). Among the dead were:
    the main clerks of Novgorod K. Rumyantsev and A. Bessonov, the boyar V. D. Danilov,
    in charge of cannon affairs, as well as the most prominent boyar F. Syrkov,
    who previously participated in the drafting of the Great Chetyah-Miney
    and built at his own expense several churches (he was first dipped
    into the icy water of Volkhov, and then boiled alive in a cauldron).
    This was followed by executions, which lasted until February 15. It was executed using
    various torture many citizens, including women and children. According to Russian
    the story of the defeat of Novgorod [7], Ivan ordered the Novgorodians to be poured with incendiary mixture
    and then, burnt and still alive, dumped into the Volkhov; others dragged before drowning
    behind the sleigh; "And their wives, masculine and feminine, sex infants," he commanded
    opako back, infants to their mothers and elm, and from a great height the sovereign ruled
    throw them into the water. " Priests and monks after various bullying were slaughtered
    with clubs and dumped there too. Contemporaries report that Volkhov was jammed with corpses;
    living tradition about this was preserved in the XIX century [3].

    People were beaten to death with sticks, thrown into the Volkhov River, put on the right, so that
    force them to surrender all their property, fried in hot flour.
    Novgorod chronicler says that there were days when the death toll reached
    one and a half thousand; the days in which 500 to 600 people were beaten were considered happy [8]. "...

    ... I don’t understand what you prefer from Wikipedia - wiki or pedi? ...
  22. +1
    26 January 2017 11: 29
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "After all, he repressed only a few thousand people. And he suffered from this, his conscience tormented him .///

    Any psychiatrist will tell you that this is very typical of clinical sadists.
    First they torture and kill, and then they repent (“aren't we monsters?”), Pray, forgive sins, do some kind of “good deed” ...
    And - in a new way ...

    ... here at any and be treated ...
  23. 0
    26 January 2017 11: 32
    Quotation: blooded man
    Quote: Kotischa
    "ghoul" Peter the Great

    He was. Lierales, on the contrary, love him.

    ... how good it is to clutter the story behind Claudia, you are our disease ...
  24. 0
    26 January 2017 11: 45
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "Your country is built on blood, it is nourished with blood and drown!" ///

    The period of the reign of Ivan the Terrible is described extremely accurately and comprehensively. Plus +++ good

    ... an extremely accurate and comprehensive opinion. Yours or from a flag - powers? ...
  25. +1
    26 January 2017 13: 32
    I read to that-The traditions of this empire go back to hoary antiquity until the time of the Aryans and the legendary Hyperborea and that’s it, stop. Samsonov often brings, but he didn’t "get" to Hyperborea laughing He would have written fantasy books for teenagers.
  26. +1
    26 January 2017 17: 04
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: cedar
    They did “our” Russian history as they wanted, or rather, as the Vatican and Zion ordered. Black paint was ordered not to be spared, as were the annals themselves, which were fiercely corrected, and if necessary, destroyed.

    How do you know it personally for you? You did it, right? Studied, compared the authenticity of documents? Are you an expert on ancient acts and writing?


    PERSONALLY, I do not know you, but I nevertheless proceed from a number of reasons that you are not a bot and therefore answer ...
    Academicians who were not foreigners are marked with asterisks. This list speaks for itself.

    1725 year:

    1) Herman Jacob, - FIRST academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences,
    2) Martini Christian,
    3) Kohl Peter (Kohl Johann Peter),
    4) Bulfinger Georg Bernhard (Bu "lfinger Georg Bernhard),
    5) Gross Christian Friedrich,
    6) Mayer Friedrich Christoph,
    7) Bernoulli Daniel,
    8) Delis Osip Nikolaevich (Delisle Joseph-Nikolas),
    9) Buxbaum Johann Christian,
    10) Goldbach Christian,
    11) Burger Michael

    Etc. etc. etc...

    See the root.
    http://lazarev.org/ru/interesting/full_news/akade
    miki_ot_istorii_ili_kto_sozdaval_russkuyu_istoriy
    u
    1. +1
      26 January 2017 18: 48
      That is, all sources of the Internet and the "root". Not much ... But Bernoulli, what prevented you from doing this? He was also a historian and rewrote the chronicles? And where would academicians not foreigners come from? From dampness? And for the future, links to Internet sources are like sturgeon of the second freshness. Scientific journals must be read!

      And then ... by itself, this list DOES NOT SPEAK ANYTHING! WHERE IS EVIDENCE THAT THEY WORK AGAINST RUSSIA? Nationality? Oh, what a moldy argument! We know a lot of foreigners that worked perfectly for RUSSIA. And for some reason, they were all against. Strange ... If you talk like that, then all workers are drunkards by definition, like plumbers, all officials are bribe takers, women .... and so on. Even a child should understand that this is not so and it is necessary to deal with each academician in particular. Did you understand? Is this the topic of your scientific work? No? Well, do not repeat nonsense. She is enough without you!
  27. +1
    26 January 2017 17: 33
    For all usurpers of power in Bolshevik Russia, the image of Ivan IV is the most often taken from the Kremlin naphthalene to the needs of the "builders of the Russian world" and the "land collector" who are in power at one time or another in the country.
    Stalin before 2MV made a film about the tsar. Because the country of the soviets needed the image of the EMPEROR, and Stalin just cleaned the country from "enemies" and added the Europeans to himself - why not Joseph the Terrible?
    Now they remembered the sweat of Grozny again under Putin, they even planned to erect a monument in Moscow.
    And it’s true - in the entire history no one erected a monument to him, but the heirs of the Red-bellied, demolished monuments, took care of this injustice. Because Putin imagines himself to be the creator of the "new Russian world" and the "collector of land"
    The Kremlin head is simply incurable, if it still thinks. that the greatness of a country is determined by its territory, and not by science, the economy and the technological mode of production.
    And people worthy to be called.
    1. 0
      26 January 2017 18: 51
      And - I add, the size of the average pension in the country, salaries, the availability of social protection funds and many more. In Switzerland, the same ad costs $ 325 a year per person. We have 9, and despite the fact that the standard of living there is many times higher. Even if we look at absolute numbers (8341000 multiplied by 325, and we have 142 million by 9), then it will turn out - there are 2710825000. We have 1278000000. Almost twice as much. With many times more audience reach. This is really a great country, although its territory is with a cow sock!
      1. 0
        27 January 2017 23: 33
        Hitler was even afraid to contact Switzerland. And it stood all 6 years of the World War, absorbing millions of bloody money into its banks. And it stood before. So it is after. Sweden is also a good country. The Germans sold ore. And I respected neutrality.
    2. +1
      27 January 2017 23: 35
      You will deal with your polygonist, and then you will teach Russia how to live.
  28. +2
    27 January 2017 18: 35
    Quote: kalibr
    That is, all sources of the Internet and the "root". Not much ... But Bernoulli, what prevented you from doing this? He was also a historian and rewrote the chronicles? And where would academicians not foreigners come from? From dampness? And for the future, links to Internet sources are like sturgeon of the second freshness. Scientific journals must be read!


    Reading scientific journals is an iron argument, read on, only I have not seen a scientific argument from you, and I have not expected it.
    My reading is simpler ...
    “Academics” from history, or Who created Russian history?
    Monday, 14 May 2012
    Reading a set of shameless tales called “the history of Russia”, in some cases I want to shout “Author!”, And in others just look at it. Fortunately, reliable information about storytellers has been preserved.

    Schletzer was an extremely ambitious man; I have never said a good word about any Russian historian.
    Lomonosov, analyzing HIS PROJECT regarding RUSSIAN HISTORY, said:

    "From this we can conclude what vile dirty tricks such cattle admitted to them will not stir up in Russian antiquities."
    Kalyuzhny D. V. “Another history of the Moscow kingdom”.
    ".. For 117 years - more than a century! - in the Russian Academy of Sciences, from its founding in 1724 to 1841, FROM THIRTY-FOUR HISTORICAL ACADEMICIANS, there were only THREE RUSSIAN ACADEMICIANS. This is MV Lomonosov, Ya.O. Yartsov and N.G. Ustryalov [2], book 1.
    They are marked with asterisks in the list. ALL THE OTHER THIRTY ONE ACADEMICIANS WERE FOREIGNERS. Thus, up to the middle of the XNUMXth century, the share of foreign historians exceeded NINety percent in the Russian Academy!
    It turns out that over a period of more than a hundred years, foreigners have completely controlled the entire process of writing the Russian history.

    It was the foreigners who uncontrollably decided which old Russian documents should be destroyed, which ones to rewrite, which ones to keep, which ones to falsify. As we see, domestic historians were roughly exposed at the door, completely removed from the domestic archives and primary sources. "
    See at the root ... the history of the "great ukrov."
  29. 0
    20 October 2017 17: 43
    Most probably, the easiest way is to receive information from the Ren-TV channel and newspapers, such as Speed-info. Grandfather Lenin was right to study, study and study again.
    In history is weak. I will not post comments. But the absence of many commentators on a critical approach is simply discouraging.
    Emotions have appeared? Outraged? Prove your opinion not by the works of Suvorov, etc., but by cross-references to scientific works. Maybe you will remember something ...