Military Review

Estonia, it’s time to apologize to Russia for Tartu peace

95
Estonia, it’s time to apologize to Russia for Tartu peace 2 February 1920 was signed in the Estonian city of Tartu (Russian Yuriev) by the Tartu Peace Treaty between the RSFSR and Estonia. The agreement was signed following the war (from 28 in November 1918 of the year to 3 in January of 1920), in which the armed units of the self-proclaimed Republic of Estonia with the participation of the White North-Western Army, the Finnish, Swedish and Danish volunteers, the British Navy fought with the Red Army. On the part of Russia, the agreement was signed by Adolf Joffe, and on the part of Estonia by Jaan Poska.

According to this agreement, Soviet Russia waived any rights to the Republic of Estonia, including property rights, and was the first to recognize Estonia at the legal level. It was the first peace treaty concluded by Moscow during the Civil War, therefore it was perceived as a “breakthrough” of the international blockade of Soviet Russia (during the Civil War, Russia underwent the intervention of the forces of the then world community). Under this agreement, the Pechora Territory withdrew to Estonia (in 1945, it was returned to the Pskov Region), the territory on the right bank of the Narva River (now it is the territory of the Leningrad Region of Russia). In addition, the Republic of Estonia was exempted from any obligations to Soviet Russia, from the imperial government’s debt obligations, received tons of gold from 11,6 Russian gold reserves (15 million rubles in gold) from the Russian gold reserve and received 1 million acres of forest in concession. The Estonian side has pledged not to present any claims to Soviet Russia arising from the fact of its former presence in the Russian Empire.

The agreement also includes other points: refusal to have warships on Lake Peipsi and Pskov; a ban on the presence on the territory of each of the countries of the armed forces, organizations and groups that aim at armed struggle with the other contracting party; states at war with the other side were prohibited from military transit. Both contracting parties undertook to inform each other about the state of non-governmental forces, military depots, military and technical property located on their land, as well as to return the internees to their homeland and exchange prisoners of war. Soviet Russia returned to the Republic of Estonia all kinds of values, archives, documents, materials having scientific or historical value exported during the First World War to Russian territory. Countries established not only diplomatic relations, but trade and economic (moreover, on the basis of the most favored nation treatment). This agreement ceased to be valid in 1940 due to the admission of the Republic of Estonia to the Soviet Union.

In modern Estonia, this treaty is considered a symbol of independence, "the fruit of the efforts of the whole people." But if you look at the events of that period, it can be concluded that the actions of state figures of the young Republic of Estonia can be equated to a conscious genocide directed against the fighters of the White Guard North-West Army Yudenich and Russian refugees. Yesterday's allies in the fight against the Red Army, the Estonians not only deceived and sold for the opportunity of profit on the Bolshevik government of Russia, but also used the surviving soldiers as forced labor. In addition, in modern Estonian historical science and politics, this tragedy of the Russian North-Western Army is deliberately hushed up by state historiography. Estonian politicians and historians pretend that the Estonian army and its Western allies have borne the brunt of the fight against the Reds.

As a result, Estonian statesmen actually committed a double meanness: in 1920, they cynically betrayed the Allied White Army, and at the present time they pretend that they don’t know anything about this tragedy.

It should be noted that the Estonian state never existed, the territory of Estonia was from ancient times under the influence of the Russian state, then was captured by the Livonian Order, and the Swedish empire was taken away from Estonia. Russia received this land after the brutal Northern War in 1721, according to the terms of the Nishtadt world, and also paid 2 million gold thalers for it. Thus, these lands belonged to Russia quite legally. In the Russian Empire there were quite liberal living conditions, the process of formation of national intelligentsia was going on, as a result, by the beginning of the 20 century, the Estonian self-consciousness had grown to such a level that they felt like a separate nation. However, in Estonia, in contrast to Poland and Finland, there was no full-fledged national liberation movement, fueled by Russia's western "partners and friends".

After the First World War, according to the results of the Brest-Litovsk peace treaty, Estonian territory was occupied by German troops. 24 February 1918, when the Bolsheviks left Reval (modern Tallinn), the Zemsky council of Estonia who had gathered for an emergency meeting gave the highest authority to the Estonian Rescue Committee headed by Konstantin Päts and announced the “Manifesto to all the people of Estonia” (the so-called “Manifesto of independence ”), he declared Estonia an independent democratic republic and proclaimed its neutral status in relation to the Russian-German conflict. Although “independence” was fictitious - it was based on German bayonets. At the head of the "republic" even planted a German prince.

In the fall of 1918 the offensive of the Red Army began, only British intervention fleet saved the Estonian capital from the "red occupation". England and Finland rendered considerable assistance to the young state not only by direct force, but also by the supply of arms, ammunition and food. In fact, the Estonians again changed their master (a revolution took place in Germany, the First World War was lost, the Germans were not in the Baltic States), they reoriented to the Entente.

By the beginning of 1919, the Red Army units occupied a large part of Estonian territory and were only 35 kilometers from Reval. In the subsequent hostilities, the help of the Entente and the white divisions played a large role (in addition, the Russians fought in the Estonian People’s Army, several divisions of the company and battalion personnel were created). The units of the Red Army were ousted from Estonia, and the white North-Western army twice launched an offensive against Petrograd. By mid-November 1919, the small White Guard North-West Army of General Yudenich was finally beaten off from Petrograd. It must be said that here, too, the Estonians played a negative role, and they unexpectedly threw the front. The White Guards thought to find a shelter in Estonia, and besides, they could count on a good attitude — the whites took an active part in liberating the Estonian land from the Red Army units. But miscalculated.

The defeated North-Western army and the refugees who went with it were interned (people were forcibly detained, deprived of their freedom of movement). Under the word "interned" lies the terrible tragedy of thousands of people. First, the refugees were starved and cold, not passing through the border. Then they disarmed, robbed, took away all valuables from people and confiscated all the property of the army. After that, de facto placed in a concentration camp (the premises of two empty factories), without medicines, food, warm things - in winter. The rearguard units of the defeated army were not allowed to enter Estonia at all, they were destroyed by fire from two sides. In a concentration camp, an epidemic of typhus began. Thousands of people died from it. The surviving men were almost slaves and sent to compulsory forest work, where they lived in the most terrible conditions. Such was the "gratitude" of the Estonian authorities to the soldiers who helped create the Republic of Estonia. To good, they responded with genocide.

Therefore, Russia needs to demand that the actions of the Estonian authorities of that period be condemned from modern Tallinn. Estonia should make an official apology to Russia, the descendants of those Russian people who died in 1919-1920 through the fault of the Estonian authorities. It is also possible to provide Estonia with an account on behalf of the relatives of the White Guards and refugees who died a terrible death through the fault of the Estonian government in those years.
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  1. Vrangel
    Vrangel 2 February 2012 09: 19
    +2
    The Bolsheviks worked for the "glory" with the money of German intelligence.
    1. Reader
      Reader 2 February 2012 09: 24
      +24
      From time immemorial, according to the History of Estonia, there has been practically no independence of Estonia. Estonia gained independence thanks to the October Revolution of 1917, and the Tartu Treaty was signed in 1920. Until that moment, Estonia was a province of the Russian Empire, and whoever was in Estonia is familiar with some of the historical buildings of estates owned by Russian princes, industrialists and used as Baltic cottages for recreation. The Russians loved to relax in the Baltic states, Finland on farms, and sometimes in their own, in modern language villas. The question of Estonia’s independence during the time of the Russian Empire was not and was not sharply discussed, nor raised. However, in 1920 V.I. Lenin, with his mediocre governance and revolution, with a lack of strategic understanding, under the Tartu Peace Treaty, nevertheless gives Estonia independence, with substantial compensation, land, gold, debt relief. Gift Tsarsky!

      In my opinion, taking into account the nationalist mood of exultation from Independence, Estonians should place a monument to Lenin and Ioffe in the central squares throughout Estonia. And to celebrate Lenin’s birthday on the same day as November 7, as a national holiday, because the generous Lenin made the Estonian people so happy. Anyway .
      Isoria will continue ... By the way, if at least the gold transferred to the Republic of Estonia is estimated in monetary terms in terms of today, this is not less than 632 dollars. + 727 acres of forest, which is approximately 000 hectares of forest. Generous Vladimir Ilyich. However, after the signing of the Molotov Rebentrop Pact, Estonia in 1 again came under the jurisdiction of the USSR and until 000 was part of the USSR. Again, a small but proud people fell under the enslavement of a large neighbor, they probably have the right to take offense at the Soviet authorities, repressions, etc., but all the peoples and Russians, including all, went through it. In the head of the USSR in the most terrible years of Soviet power stood Gruzin I.V. Stalin. Maybe Estonia should invoice and claim Georgia? However, there in diplomatic relations everything seems to be in a lock.
      And so back to the essence of our reasoning. Lenin gave the Estonians independence, Stalin took it back and Estonia fell under the influence of the USSR for 50 years. What has happened over the years ?! World War 2 the occupation of Estonia by Hitler’s troops, then liberation, victory in the 2nd World War, and accordingly again the return of Estonia under the jurisdiction of the USSR. I would like to note that the entrance of the Nuremberg trials, fascism, the outbreak of war, etc. were condemned by the entire international community. In addition, I would like to note a certain “Ost” plan in the original, it should be noted that it was destroyed, but documents have been preserved confirming plans for the destruction, resettlement of peoples
      Gentlemen are Estonians, Setos living in the territory of the Republic of Estonia. Where did you get such a negative nationalist attitude towards the Russians? As we looked above, thanks to Lenin, you gained independence, thanks to Stalin, liberation from fascism and potential Germanization and annihilation. The USSR has built the Economy and Nfrostrukuru for you. Thanks to the weaknesses of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, you gained independence + a 20-year transition period with cheap gas and other energy resources. Freedom as you wish! What is the problem? You gentlemen, Estonians should not engage in yapping at Russia, but at least declare Lenin and Gorbachev national heroes. I think, save the Russian Empire, the USSR, or win the Hitler war, you would be enslaved, but proud people. You insult the feelings of Russians, oppress them, come up with the concept of “Not a citizen” with gray, incomprehensible passports, demolish their monuments (Bronze Night 2007).
      Demolition of the Bronze Soldier in April 2007
      police lawlessness with the beating of the population, together with the Minister of the Ministry of the Interior Pihl and associates. 1200 people were detained without any charges, including a huge number of children.






      1. Vrangel
        Vrangel 2 February 2012 09: 38
        +6
        I support your comment with one caveat, the gift is Bolshevik, not "Tsarsky". smile
      2. Auschwitz
        Auschwitz 2 February 2012 09: 47
        +21
        Estonian nationalists and former SS men gather annually for their gatherings, including in the north-east of the country, in the town of Sinimäe.

        Inhumans have something to celebrate


        and there is something to be proud of
        1. dmitri077
          dmitri077 2 February 2012 13: 13
          -41
          "Estonian nationalists and former SS men gather annually for their rallies, including in the north-east of the country, in Sinimäe." - where does so much "stupid" malicious hatred for the small and hardworking Estonian people come from? it is one thing to be regular provocateurs stirring up interethnic issues under the strict guidance of the "Kremlin", but why are there many people behind them like a herd of sheep? ... there are so many smart people in Russia! yes fly to Estonia, and with YOUR OWN EYES see how and how Estonia lives today! do not "brainwash" yourself and do not let others do it ... I went - I AM looked
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 2 February 2012 13: 18
            +11
            Quote: dmitri077
            fly to Estonia

            Speaks out, well, and went to X * uy from here a goat torn! am
            1. Alexey Prikazchikov
              Alexey Prikazchikov 2 February 2012 13: 56
              +5
              Keep angry
          2. Ascetic
            Ascetic 2 February 2012 13: 53
            +10
            Quote: dmitri077
            ? it is one thing to be regular provocateurs stirring up interethnic issues under the strict leadership of the "Kremlin", but why do many people follow them like a herd of sheep? ...


            You can listen to the opinion of the "intellectual" whom you think you are only when he produces a product that is in demand abroad, that is, his work can be an export good / service. It doesn't matter - music, cinema, science, painting, literature - you can sell yourself "there" - pay taxes and get the right to opinion. Otherwise, you, like all the other estates, sit "on the pipe", but also rock its balance. If you consider the reality impossible and unbearable for yourself - leave and prove that you are worth something. Roads are open. Flag in hands and tailwind in ......
            1. dmitri077
              dmitri077 2 February 2012 23: 06
              -11
              "you can only listen when he produces a product," - what if I teach children at school or treat people? how then to be? laughing do not get confused in your thoughts ... put them together wink
          3. Andy
            Andy 2 February 2012 14: 54
            +16
            Where does so much "stupid" malicious hatred for the small and hardworking Estonian people come from?
            ----
            Can you tell me what the small people are, the industriousness of the Russian? This is an ethnic provocateur. I live in Estonia, I was born here and I know HOW today's Estonia lives. the collapse of industry, unemployment of up to 15% of the working-age population (they are afraid to give the exact figure, although the local "helmsmen" themselves have already started talking about lies), 15% of the EU budget-benefits. You can check all this by articles on the internet, including on est .sites.
            1. dmitri077
              dmitri077 2 February 2012 22: 50
              -8
              "Andy" - the same dear: change the Estonian passport to the Russian passport! no problem! and go to the widest open spaces to WORK! .... WHERE YOU WILL FIND! In Russia, you are guaranteed ALL rights and guarantees laughing don’t suffer, move soon ... Karelia is waiting good
          4. Uhalus
            Uhalus 2 February 2012 15: 28
            +8
            What does hatred for Estonians have to do with it? We are talking about the nationalists and the SS shortcomings. But Estonia as a state (and a "state" - that it is now with a certain stretch) must answer both for the Peace of Tartu and for supporting the German invaders in the war.
            As for how good everything is in Estonia: everything is good on our Red Square and in the Kremlin. And in business districts, banks are doing well. Those who left Estonia told how people rush about in search of work and flee to Poland, Belarus (the majority), and Russia.
            1. dmitri077
              dmitri077 2 February 2012 23: 04
              -9
              “2 Those who left Estonia told how people rush about in search of work and flee to Poland, to Belarus (the majority),” - all of Estonia is lying at the feet of Lukashenka's father, so that he would take them to work in a collective farm to milk cows ... laughing I have not heard such insanity a long time ago lol Do you even believe in "this" yourself? ...

              "must answer both for the Peace of Tartu and for supporting the German invaders in the war." - remember for the rest of your life: Estonia, neither to you personally, nor to Russia as a whole, SHOULD NOTHING! when will it reach you? I'm not afraid yet laughing it is a SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT, EUROPEAN-ORIENTED state ... but not yours, some kind of outskirts of a village there .... yes
              1. Roman Skomorokhov
                Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 23: 19
                +6
                Quote: dmitri077
                that SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT, EUROPEAN-ORIENTED state ... but not yours, some kind of out there and somewhere around the outskirts of the village ...


                Yes, calm down, not worth it, the bile will spill. On ... she did not give up to us, and all these cries that Russia sharpens her teeth on your small sovereign states - purely in the brains of the (inflamed) rulers of these states.
                in order to just attract the attention of the owner and get another sop.
                1. dmitri077
                  dmitri077 3 February 2012 02: 12
                  -6
                  "Yes, calm down, don't be so, bile will spill over." - absolutely calm and peaceful wink I remember, during the "riot" of the Russian cattle in Tallinn with the robberies of wine shops, it was a Russian citizen who was killed ... right? and you tell me about the "owners" of fairy tales ... Russia doesn't need to go there ... its ears can be seen from a kilometer away laughing
                  1. Roman Skomorokhov
                    Roman Skomorokhov 3 February 2012 08: 58
                    0
                    And who climbs there? Who was taken by the ears sticking out per kilometer, charged, and so on? Facts bring, huh?
              2. ztk1
                ztk1 3 February 2012 00: 19
                +3
                it will not be sovereign for long.
              3. Che
                Che 3 February 2012 08: 00
                +5
                Estonia puppet education natofascists, to counter Russia. It has always been so. The meanness of the rulers of Estonia is constantly manifested, no matter what period of history you raise, forever tallinn in shit.
          5. Andy
            Andy 2 February 2012 15: 29
            +9
            here they published a photo and a monument with an SS man and hmyrs in uniform, but still this is "Kremlin propaganda" :)) all of you are dew
            1. dmitri077
              dmitri077 2 February 2012 23: 00
              -11
              "there was published a photo and a monument with an SS man and a bloody man in uniform, but still this is" Kremlin propaganda ":)) all of you are dew" - let's publish photos of the wild crimes of the NKVD-MGB-KGB for the whole world and ask people how do they relate to ALL the USSR as a whole? ... this is the essence of your phrase laughing
              1. ivachum
                ivachum 3 February 2012 14: 49
                +2
                PUBLISH! NKVD officers can be! and were executioners, but not nearly as idiots as the SS. Find at least one photo where the NKVDshnik shoots a woman with a child ..... Only with a link to the archive. And then some people have already published a photo from the US state of Texas in the 30s, posing as "Holodomor in Ukraine."
          6. sgv
            sgv 2 February 2012 20: 31
            +12
            Oh handsome, you would come here! Though I am not in Estonia, but that is nearby in Latvia. Live 20 years with the permanent stigma of an occupier and an enemy !!! Although born and raised in Latvia, go through a humiliating naturalization procedure with questions like: Who are the Forest Brothers. Read the newspapers listen to the radio watch TV and constantly feel and hear this thought you are nobody here you are here and your opinion does not interest us. We were already told from Vosschington how to bark, so we are trying! I was born and raised in Riga, I consider Latvia my homeland, here I have the graves of my grandfathers and fathers, and in 1991 I received a passport with the word "ALIENS" on the first page, and under the new laws could not apply for Latvian citizenship for almost 10 years! So you come and look at the windows, rejoice at the abundance, but remember that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Russians in these beautiful democratic republics are simply no one they are "NOT CITIZENS" and they have no rights !!! And so because of the hillock everything is beautiful, you will not sing like that! Greetings from European democracy !!!
            1. dmitri077
              dmitri077 2 February 2012 22: 42
              -8
              "Oh, handsome, you would come here !!!" - Especially for you, dear: "The main objectives of the State Program developed at the initiative of the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Federation of June 22, 2006 No. 637, are to stimulate and organize the process of voluntary resettlement of compatriots to Russia, to compensate for the natural loss of population in the country as a whole and in its individual regions by attracting resettlers to permanent residence in the Russian Federation. " Get ready for a good journey! You will go home, to your historical homeland! laughing Choose any town you can and you will live in Mother Russia for your pleasure! Here you will become a FULL CITIZEN, no one will force you to learn the hated language and history of the state in which you will live! DO NOT LIKE in Latvia? Go to Russia! I was in the Baltic countries and even cooperate with them a little ..... therefore I know a little about what I write laughing
              1. Aibolit
                Aibolit 2 February 2012 23: 12
                +2
                Quote: dmitri077
                DO NOT LIKE in Latvia? Go to Russia! I was in the Baltic countries and even cooperate with them a little ..... therefore I know a little about what I write

                What doesn’t suit you? sickly wink that you write and write everything for yourself and for bots for the Balts for Ukrainians, you are ill understand wink
              2. Roman Skomorokhov
                Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 23: 21
                -1
                Quote: dmitri077
                E LIKE in Latvia? Go to Russia!


                As an option.
                1. ivachum
                  ivachum 3 February 2012 14: 56
                  +1
                  Don't like living with Russians on the same planet? Embark on another galaxy! wink drinks
              3. Andy
                Andy 3 February 2012 00: 49
                +1
                I was in the Baltic countries and even cooperate with them a little ..... therefore I know a little about what I write
                ----
                I don’t know the pearl, but I support it. aftarpeschiischo :))
                1. dmitri077
                  dmitri077 3 February 2012 02: 15
                  -4
                  "Pearl, I don't know, but I support it. Aftarpeshiischo :))" - from everything I wrote for you, did you notice only this ?! laughing Russia is waiting for you! and take more Russians from the Baltic with you .... replace Tajiks with you laughing
              4. gor
                gor 6 February 2012 14: 25
                0
                Yes, the problem is that they do not want to go back to Russia somewhere. They all want comfort and preferably somewhere in the suburbs, then they will move. And so they themselves do not care about their great homeland and will not raise it because in Russia the outback will be much worse for them than in the Baltic countries where they don’t bow. But they think that they should. And the problem is that they don’t want to learn the state language. But nowhere else in the world does a citizen have to know the state language in Russia exactly like that
                and those who so actively want to conduct the Russian language in other countries should think that they are setting a precedent and this precedent threatens Russia itself. if so, other nationalities in the territory of the Russian Federation may ask for their language as a second state
                1. Uhalus
                  Uhalus 9 February 2012 16: 43
                  +1
                  In our quiet province there are quite a lot of Russians from the Baltic states, including Estonia; in the far suburbs of our city there is a strong peasant farm founded by the Latvians - I know this well, we buy milk from them. So they go, they go! - and not in the suburbs.
          7. Astral
            Astral 3 February 2012 15: 12
            0
            Chmyri you are shameful. You need to spread rot, for all that your nation has done then and now. Fascists you are fascists. No matter how beautifully and noblely you present it to the world. I hope that your grandfathers and fathers dream of nightmares and condemn your adherence to the fascists with whom they fought.
    2. ISO
      ISO 2 February 2012 09: 45
      +5
      Read N. Starikov all the same, the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks acted more until a certain point in the interests of the Entente. Each leader was assigned an appropriate curator from the embassy. N. Starikov points out that mandates were issued from the CPSU (b) to representatives of the British and French intelligence services. But still, Ulyanov and then Dzhugashvili managed to get out of control and start their own game, which everyone knows as the USSR. And the fact that Russia ended up in the Anglo-American prepared completely merit of the idealist Nicholas II.
      1. Evgan
        Evgan 2 February 2012 10: 00
        -3
        article. To demand condemnation of the actions of the official authorities of Estonia of that period, from modern official Tallinn and an apology for the Tartu treaty, means to admit that in 1940 we acted against Estonians, let's say, not humanly. That is also apologizing. Do we need it?
        1. Andy
          Andy 2 February 2012 12: 24
          +6
          ugly what? In the 30s, bourgeois Estonian authorities killed Estonian communists on Kingisepp, Kreuks Street, Clementi died in prison, worked with German intelligence, and in the 40s entered the USSR voluntarily, without shooting / occupation. But photos from pro-Soviet demonstrations were saved. one-sidedly you somehow ignore the opinion of part of the people. yes, and during the war years, part went for the Germans, part for the Soviets.
          1. Evgan
            Evgan 2 February 2012 13: 33
            -5
            It's ugly that you have to be consistent. If released in 1918 - it means released. And in 1940, the Estonians did not enter at all voluntarily - read the story as it was. Although the formalities were followed. And the fact that Estonians shot communists is not a reason for the annexation of the state.
            Of course, there were people in Estonia who wanted to unite with the Soviets, but the question is - how many were there? Majority, minority? The results of the elections that took place in Estonia after the entry of Soviet troops are difficult to consider objective, given that only candidates from the pro-Soviet party were allowed to participate in them.
            1. Andy
              Andy 2 February 2012 15: 04
              +3
              but the question is how many were there?
              ---
              and how many opponents were there? let me remind you that there was no occupation, there was no resistance. rot came out from under the cracks in 1941 just before the start of the war. It was not for nothing that the Estonian reconnaissance group Erna was formed by the Abwehr even BEFORE THE WAR began. Their agents were very strong here. Why is their "outlook" on life the ultimate truth for you? Why do you ignore the Estonians who died defending not only Estonia itself, but also those who fought near Velikiye Luki, and in 44, liberating their land from the shortcomings. look for information on Arnold Mary. even a film was made.
              1. Evgan
                Evgan 2 February 2012 16: 24
                -5
                And I didn’t talk about occupation, because legally everything was arranged correctly. It's about annexation.

                Andy, I do not ignore the opinion of those who were for joining the USSR, and I do not ignore the opinion of their opponents. But I do not think that those who were against automatically became supporters of the Nazis (although, of course, there were some).

                And the fact that there were reconnaissance groups does not mean anything. German agents were also in the RSFSR, including among ethnic Russians.

                Am I all this for what? It’s stupid to demand some kind of apology when we first gave them freedom and then took it back (call it occupation, annexation, annexation, or whatever else). And then they ganged up on me :)
        2. gor
          gor 6 February 2012 14: 50
          0
          and this is already stupid. to demand from Estonia that they apologize for declaring their independence. There is a charter on the self-determination of peoples and which Russia, too, has signed. By the way, national socialists in Russia must press the brakes and think better of where they will go in this way. or Chechnya hasn’t taught anything successful so much? Measure your strength and calm down. Not only are you trying to shake Russia from the outside, and these are moving the baton from the inside
      2. Vrangel
        Vrangel 2 February 2012 10: 10
        +2
        Only such a mediocre ruler as Nicholas II could get involved in the First World War on the side of the Entente against Germany: despite the fact that Germany was the only strategic partner of Russia in Europe at that time (as they say now). And as for who was recruited by whom, one can argue hoarsely in his voice, it is known that Germany and Japan have archival documents confirming the cooperation of the VKPb leadership with foreign special services.
        1. neodymium
          neodymium 2 February 2012 10: 34
          +6
          Facts say different:

          -August 1 Germany declared war on Russia, on the same day, the Germans invaded Luxembourg without any declaration of war.

          - Serbia could not be surrendered.

          -If it were not for the RSDLP, the Cadets, essays, etc., financed by the money of William, and the Rockefellers, the Rodschilds,
          then Russia would be winning country and received half of Europe, Constantinople, etc.

          -The first concentration camps sabotaged Austro-Hungarians for the Orthodox.
          1. Vrangel
            Vrangel 2 February 2012 10: 52
            +4
            What could Russia gain ?! Galicia, with its anti-Russian population ?! The German sector of Poland - despite the fact that uprisings continued in their sector? Yes, this adventure was not worth the life of Russian soldiers!
          2. Prometey
            Prometey 2 February 2012 11: 28
            +9
            The first concentration camps were invented by the British for the Boers - so for reference.
            1. DYMITRY
              DYMITRY 3 February 2012 08: 43
              0
              For reference, the first concentration camps were invented by the Americans during the Civil War.
          3. gor
            gor 6 February 2012 20: 26
            0
            I look at the Leninists with the Social Natsiks who understand each other pretty well. And this, in principle, is not surprising. The roots are that some have the same
        2. olegyurjewitch
          olegyurjewitch 2 February 2012 20: 03
          +1
          IF THE ALLIAN TROOPS HAVE NOT SELF-DELIVERED FROM THE ACTIVE
          MILITARY ACTIONS AT ITS AREAS OF A TVD, IT IS NOT KNOWN AS IF THE MAP WAS LEST.
    3. revnagan
      revnagan 2 February 2012 13: 55
      +8
      "You know my surname,
      their bin von Wrangel, herr baron ... ",
      D. Poor
      "With the money of German intelligence," the Bolsheviks were able to take power into their own hands, keep it, bring the country out of ruin and build a superpower, which, alas, the Russian Empire was not. And was the German economy, exhausted in the World War, really had this money - big question. And it is unlikely that such an allowance (if any), could finance all the achievements of Soviet power.
      But where did all the IMF loans for the period since 1991 go? Why did the "shitcrats", having received a working industry from the USSR and colossal tranches from "Western colleagues", ruined the country's economy?
      Where did the BIG money go? As the late Yeltsin used to say, "all in the family"?
      But what about the state? And the Bolsheviks invested all the money in the state.
      You can water the Bolsheviks with mud as much as you like, but more power than the Bolsheviks for the economy of the state, for the country throughout the entire history of Russia, not a single power has brought. By the way, before the revolution, ball bearings were not even produced in Russia, they were bought abroad.
      1. Vrangel
        Vrangel 2 February 2012 14: 09
        +2
        Of course, the Bolsheviks are a great blessing for Russia. Especially when you consider several circumstances:
        1 destroyed millions of Russians;
        2 tens of millions left the country (I’ll notice not the worst!);
        3 destroyed the empire to the borders of the 16th century;
        4 cut National-territorial entities, laying a time bomb in the future;
        5 and in the 90s, going to the Democratic Platform of the CPSU, and later heading the liberal movements plundered everything that was created by blood and then the Russian people!
        And the rest is charm, wonderful guys!
        1. revnagan
          revnagan 2 February 2012 18: 11
          +1
          Quote: Vrangel
          1 destroyed millions of Russians;
          Yes, and the carriers of the "white idea" were soft and fluffy, they did not destroy anyone, but only gave flowers and chocolates. And those "flags to visit us": English, Japanese, French, etc., which "white knights "they were invited to Russia, in the period 1918-1924, they did not shoot anyone either, but only brought us the" light of democracy. "
          Quote: Vrangel
          2 tens of millions left the country (I’ll notice not the worst!);
          You, my friend, are exaggerating to put it mildly. With such demographic losses, the Bolsheviks would have built the Svrhpower before the second coming of Christ. But even those who remained had the intelligence to build everything without emigrants: the conclusion was that they were not fools either.
          Quote: Vrangel
          3 destroyed the empire to the borders of the 16th century;

          The Bolsheviks only recognized the fait accompli of the loss of territories, and the tsarist government lost these territories due to lack of resources and backwardness of industry (banal lack of weapons).
          By the way, by 1940 the Communists more than returned all that was lost (with the exception of Finland)
          Quote: Vrangel
          4 cut National-territorial entities, laying a time bomb in the future;
          This problem could have been solved in the American way, destroying the indigenous population and implanting a multiculturalism, but the "bloody" Bolsheviks preferred to unite the people with a common idea, of course, this is, in your opinion, a big minus.
          Quote: Vrangel
          5 and in the 90s, going to the Democratic Platform of the CPSU, and later heading the liberal movements plundered everything that was created by blood and then the Russian people!
          The Bolsheviks were also part of the Russian people. And the cry "Communists, forward!" Was not only in the cinema. According to the democratic platform of the CPSU, we in Ukraine also had enough of such chameleons. This is the first PRESIDENT Kravchuk, and Plyushch, and the main ideologist of the Communist Party in Ukraine ( forgot the name of this scum) If you can say that there were no such people in the government of the Russian Empire before the Bolsheviks, I will take back all my words and apologize to you.
          Quote: Vrangel
          And the rest is charm an

          PS I strongly advise you to read "Historical Miniatures" by V.S. Pikul. There is a miniature about the general "organ-grinder". Interesting, you know the thing.
  2. Tyumen
    Tyumen 2 February 2012 10: 16
    +11
    The Republic of Estonia ... received 11,6 tons of gold from the Russian gold reserve.
    Today the Estonian gold reserve is 200kg.
    1. Evgan
      Evgan 2 February 2012 13: 35
      -5
      This does not mean anything, considering that after that Estonia was annexed by the USSR, then it was occupied by the Germans, and then liberated by Soviet troops.
      1. Tyumen
        Tyumen 2 February 2012 13: 49
        +3
        Quote: EvgAn
        It doesn’t mean anything

        For 20 years they could have accumulated more. In general, the idea suggests itself, by analogy with the ammunition, that this is * a wearable gold reserve *. smile
    2. Roman Skomorokhov
      Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 13: 38
      +4
      The rest of their ambition and Ponte is provided.
      1. Evgan
        Evgan 2 February 2012 16: 17
        +1
        Banshee, +1 :)
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          Roman Skomorokhov 3 February 2012 09: 05
          0
          Quote: EvgAn
          This does not mean anything, considering that after that Estonia was annexed by the USSR, then it was occupied by the Germans, and then liberated by Soviet troops.


          One cannot but agree with this. It was. They could have taken ours ("we need it more"), the Germans could have taken it ("it is lying around here, let’s put it to work"), or it could be quite normal to pick up and take out our own, if not fools, under this nix. Fortunately, there was someone to blame. And all three options are plainly unprovable and could well have taken place.
  3. sichevik
    sichevik 2 February 2012 11: 18
    +5
    The time will come and the proud, hot Estonian guys themselves will be asked back. Everything is moving towards this, ethnic Lithuanians and Latvians are already coming to Russia for permanent residence as part of the State Resettlement Program. I personally communicated with them. So that they are fleeing from their vaunted European Union.
    1. ivachum
      ivachum 3 February 2012 15: 13
      0
      The situation with modern Eastern Europe and some republics of the former USSR now resembles the "Red Light District": there was a rich (or simply stronger) RUSSIAN - everyone wanted to surrender to him. Now in favor of the American cowboy. This is normal for these countries. The only trouble is. that the meaning of the word "love" in RUSSIAN and AMERICAN is different! In the USA and West. In Europe, this word is mainly translated as "TR ... X ... TH" - will be used and thrown out into the street.
  4. Jeen
    Jeen 2 February 2012 11: 31
    -22
    Every nation has a primordial right to their land and their homeland. Well done Estonians. Although there are very few of them, they still managed to defend their right. Sooner or later, but every nation will receive independence and complete sovereignty over their own land. And under the feet of the invaders the earth will burn
    1. Andy
      Andy 2 February 2012 12: 10
      +10
      as soon as you return the money of Peter the Great (preferably with interest), you can talk about your land. But for now, scat, a mistake of nature! The war for independence is good, since the ancient Russian Pechers, Izborsk and Ivangorod were captured.
      1. Jeen
        Jeen 2 February 2012 14: 26
        -15
        To whom to return the money? Peter? Okay, I’ll send a bunch of snowdrops to his grave, as I will drive nearby.
        And Estonians fought and conquered their land and their identity.
        They conquered from all the invaders.
        Well done
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 2 February 2012 12: 17
      +9
      Quote: j
      Well done Estonians.

      Speaks out, well, and went to X * uy from here a goat torn! am
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 13: 40
        +5
        Quote: j
        Although very few of them, they were able to defend their right.


        Yeah, this is how the prostitute defends her rights to the "point of work", providing free services to either the policeman or the "supervisor" in the area.
        1. Jeen
          Jeen 2 February 2012 14: 28
          -3
          Are you hinting at the status of the Russian people in Moscow? Yes, a sad picture. "Heartbreaking spectacle!" (C)
      2. Jeen
        Jeen 2 February 2012 14: 27
        -4
        What a subtle humor! I’ll probably write in chalk on the cuffs, so as not to forget, God forbid
    3. revnagan
      revnagan 2 February 2012 14: 04
      +6
      Quote: j
      Sooner or later, but every nation will receive independence and complete sovereignty over their own land. And under the feet of the invaders the earth will burn

      It is high time the peoples of the Cherokee, Iroquois, Delaware tribes and so on begin to scalp the pale-faced invaders. And to the world community to support the fighters for the freedom of their land by carpet bombing the settlements of white invaders! Death to the Pindos invaders! That would be great-gee-gee!
      1. Jeen
        Jeen 2 February 2012 14: 24
        -5
        Of course it's time. Why don't they start? Or are they waiting for you on an armored car?
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 22: 53
          +2
          Quote: j
          Are you hinting at the status of the Russian people in Moscow?


          By no means. This is an allusion to those whose interests are trolled by one single-letter character ...
    4. common man
      common man 3 February 2012 07: 54
      0
      There are 256 states on Earth, in which from 800 to 2500 nationalities live (according to other sources, 3-4 thousand). This is how many new states need to be created? IDIOCY.
  5. Doctor
    Doctor 2 February 2012 12: 15
    0
    Quote: Andy
    Well done Estonians

    Speaks out, well, and went to X * uy from here a goat torn! am
  6. Strabo
    Strabo 2 February 2012 12: 38
    +4
    Fingers are not enough to bend, how many countries should apologize to Russia.
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 13: 41
      +2
      Well, at least there is enough land, where to put all this ...
  7. Jeen
    Jeen 2 February 2012 15: 00
    -10
    in the Estonian city of Tartu (Russian Yuriev)
    We look at the scummy tablets of history:
    Tartu is one of the oldest cities in the Baltic states. The permanent settlement of ancient Estonians in this place dates back to the V century, the ancient settlement of VI – VIII centuries... The settlement was called Tarbatu (tarvas - Est. 'Bison'). Hence the later Estonian name for Tartu, as well as Drpt, Dorpat or Dorpat
    1. Andy
      Andy 2 February 2012 15: 18
      +5
      aha, the settlement. and the city was founded under Yaroslav the Wise. Well, this is not a reason for you ... but the capture of Pecher and Izborsk in 1920, you call to recapture "YOUR" land. Since when is it "your own"? since the Red Army was shackled by Yudenich , the Entente and the Germans at the same time? + all sorts of nationalists like Pats and Petliura.
    2. Uhalus
      Uhalus 2 February 2012 15: 36
      +3
      Yuriev, this city was called before the Mongol invasion. Do you not think that the then Ests and modern Estonians are one and the same? Moreover, the then ests were tributaries of the Russian princes.
      1. gor
        gor 6 February 2012 14: 56
        0
        and the Russian princes were Vikings))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
        1. Uhalus
          Uhalus 9 February 2012 16: 52
          0
          Some. Actually, "Vikings" are a common feature of many tribes living in northern Europe, with approximately similar forms of customs and way of life.
          ... And who do you think "Varangians" if not the Vikings?
    3. ivachum
      ivachum 3 February 2012 15: 18
      0
      Estonians (est. Estestased) are the Finno-Ugric people in Estonia, the total number is about 1,1 million people, including about 921 thousand in Estonia (2008). The main language is an Estonian, Finno-Ugric family.

      Until the 12th – 13th centuries Estonians called themselves maarahvas, which literally means "the people of the earth", that is, engaged in agriculture [14]. The term eestlane came from Latin (Aesti) - the people living on the far coast of the Baltic Sea are called by Tacitus in “Germany” [XNUMX]. In the Middle Ages in Russia, the ancestors of the Estonians were called a miracle [XNUMX], later the mocking nickname “Chukhna” came into circulation.

      In the XIII century, German knights attacked the Prussian lands from the west and in the territory of the Estonians, Livs, as well as the Curon, Zemgale, Shelonian (selon?), Latgale, from the Gulf of Riga. During this so-called “Holy War”, there was a mass murder of people and the complete destruction and burning of villages.
  8. suharev-52
    suharev-52 2 February 2012 15: 52
    +3
    Not a bad informative article. I somehow had not dealt with this before and was not interested in this issue. In the light of this article, there is a legal opportunity to present their legal claims against the hefty "independent" Chukhonts. It seems that they were once called. For some reason, recently, all the so-called neighbors have suddenly manifested claims to Russia. Or they were inspired by the collapse of the Soviet Empire. It is necessary to intensify historical research, formalize it legally and send it to all possible courts. And Russia has something to demand from its neighbors. For one exported gold in history - the land is not plowed.
    1. Evgan
      Evgan 2 February 2012 16: 43
      0
      What kind of "legal claims" against Estonia under this agreement would you like to bring? Can you list?
    2. gor
      gor 6 February 2012 14: 59
      0
      Did you remember that gold exported to Russia? I’m wondering how could it be the other way around from Russia to others?
  9. desava
    desava 2 February 2012 19: 25
    +6
    Not the first article with similar statements of thought. Thanks to the author, indeed, for the informative and educational work. But as for the conclusions and comments, I want to argue with everyone. It is one thing to know the origin and history of a people, it is quite another to use this knowledge in modern history. Nationalism is very widespread both in this forum and in the world in general. This is normal. The United States is 200 (or 300) years old and nothing, they already consider themselves a nation. Where did their ancestors come from, where did these peoples live before the migration? Everyone knows that everywhere, all over the world (Anglo-Saxons, African Americans, etc.). Likewise with other "nations". Why am I all this? ... It makes no sense to find out who originally belonged to the land, territory. At all times there was a struggle for these very lands. Take the same "colonial" war. One can argue about this ad infinitum, and these disputes lead to the fact that "necessary" fragments are snatched out of history and operated on in order to reinforce their position. Arguing about this is as meaningless as pissing against the wind. We must remain human beings, have a conscience, honor the memory of our ancestors, and not shout with slogans that Russia or someone else is to blame for the current situation. Balts (since the article is still written about the Baltic country), I am not against you honoring the memory of those killed on the side of the Nazis. In the ranks of the Wehrmacht, soldiers were far from all monsters. There were just soldiers. This is your business, but do not elevate them and place them on the level of liberators. Maybe I repeat, maybe they wanted to fight for their country, for its independence. In that situation, it was normal. But still the wrong side was chosen ... There is no need to create national, government-approved holidays in which the Nazis are heroes. Do you yourself see who the younger generation is turning into? It is all of you to blame for your fanatical struggle for independence. Snotty, does not know how to write correctly, but talks about national politics and the "greatness" of his country, although he does not know its history. Is this normal? At about, that you denigrate the Soviet soldiers who liberated your country from the Nazis, transfer, demolish and God knows what you are doing with the monuments to Soviet soldiers - IS THIS NORMAL ??? Where is your honor? Where is your conscience? Where is your brain after all? Do you think Europe or the US needs you? Yes, I'm 80 percent sure that you are being used as prostitutes. No need to find fault with Russia ... For you will regret it later. Live the world - work hard, establish contacts, connections, trade, joint ventures, etc.
    1. Uhalus
      Uhalus 2 February 2012 20: 00
      0
      Thank you, I will copy your comment, it is the most reasonable
    2. sgv
      sgv 2 February 2012 20: 52
      +1
      Dear! You write all this on a website that is read only by Russian-speaking people (as they say in our Baltic states) and your arguments are quite adequate and logical, but you just try to debate with a complete nationalistic thug of the local spill and I'll look at you later! I even roughly know how the dispute might end, the Baltic states will eventually just say "I don’t like you !!!" ...
      The final in my own skin has already been tested more than once, which, dear, I do not wish you !!!! Respectfully, a naturalized citizen of Latvia !!!
      1. desava
        desava 2 February 2012 21: 06
        0
        In principle, I just addressed my monologue to the subjects you mentioned, who periodically look at such forums. I had the honor to communicate with the "thugs of the local spill". True, just with the Russians. I sincerely understand you. They did not like my burriness and they decided that I was not worthy to live in Russia (although I still have the most Russian roots). But that's not the point. I would also like to appeal to the Russian forum users. Somehow the Joker (disappeared somewhere) laid out the most competent idea - work, perform your duties efficiently and responsibly, do not rant on meaningless topics and do not look to blame. There is a bad aspect in our mentality - to look for excuses, not a way out of the situation and search for solutions to overcome the difficulties and problems that have arisen.
        1. sgv
          sgv 2 February 2012 22: 07
          0
          Dear! So you write that you don’t have to cry, complain and seek sympathy, you just need to make your life better and more beautiful yourself! So, this hour in Latvia there will be a referendum on giving the Russian language the status of a second state language, for this initiative 182 signatures of CITIZENS of Latvia have already been collected initially, if you are interested, you will see what is happening on the net on this issue! After all, people who are using democratic and legal procedures are accused of overthrowing the legitimate authority and dismantling the national state, they are declared enemies of the Latvian people and this is all in enlightened EUROPE !!! Nor did anyone from the democracies even hint to the local Natsiks that it was simply not good to give the organizers of this initiative! So we ourselves (no longer hoping for the help of such a close Motherland) are trying to decide our fate, the main thing is that Russia would once again not sell us Native Natsiks for a piece I don’t know what !!! And about the referendum, read a lot of interesting things to learn !!! Best regards, SGV !!!
          1. ab
            ab 2 February 2012 22: 15
            -4
            Quote: sgv
            After all, people who are using democratic and legal procedures are accused of overthrowing the legitimate authority and dismantling the national state, they are declared enemies of the Latvian people and this is all in enlightened EUROPE !!! And while none of the democracies even

            Who do you complain to? Read the posts here and you will see how the same people in Rossimi applying democratic and legal procedures turn into enemies, mercenaries, podpindosnikov, etc. .. NOT the place to remember about democracy. Here on the site is an abusive word
            1. Roman Skomorokhov
              Roman Skomorokhov 2 February 2012 22: 58
              +1
              Quote: sgv
              So we ourselves (no longer hoping for the help of such a close Motherland) are trying to decide our fate, the main thing is that Russia would once again not sell us RELATED Natsik for a piece I don’t know what !!!


              Hmm ... a reproach, maybe a true, good stone to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but on the other hand, for what, excuse me, did Russia sell you?

              1. Andy
                Andy 3 February 2012 00: 45
                +2
                for a bottle of van-tallin Ben'ke-drunk. ask about his visit in the 91st and his mysterious flight instead of meeting with the Russian-speaking population. we did not abandon the USSR, and EBNya threw all who supported the preservation of the country.
          2. ab
            ab 2 February 2012 22: 59
            -5
            Quote: sgv
            no longer hoping for the help of such a close homeland

            Or maybe you should just return to your homeland and not beg for alms from the hot Estonian guys?
            1. Aibolit
              Aibolit 2 February 2012 23: 07
              +1
              Quote: ab
              Or maybe you should just return to your homeland and not beg for alms from the hot Estonian guys?

              Or maybe you better shut up the bot laughing
            2. Andy
              Andy 3 February 2012 00: 46
              +1
              no one asks alms. and those guys who came out in 2007 to the Soldier are an example.
  10. dr. Mengele
    dr. Mengele 2 February 2012 20: 46
    +1
    Quote: revnagan
    It’s time for the peoples of the Cherokee, Iroquois, Delaware and so on to begin to scalp the pale-faced invaders. And to the world community to support the fighters for the freedom of their land by carpet bombing the settlements of white invaders! Death to the Pindos invaders! That would be great-gee-gee!

    and what is such a topic. the republic of Lakota is called
  11. Yazov
    Yazov 2 February 2012 21: 44
    +1
    Small folk, small swim, but a lot of you .... smiling, in order to show their significance. Rather, make an appearance of its significance. And they try everywhere, always dirty tricks. For they cannot do otherwise. They get by turnips, calm down, then again everything is in a circle.
    1. Jeen
      Jeen 3 February 2012 14: 10
      +1
      Small folk, swim small
      A typical statement of a typical Nazi, accustomed to dividing peoples into "smallish", inferior peoples and higher, "Aryan" races.
      Gentlemen, comrade Nazis, have you not been branded in Nuremberg?
      Or re-required?
  12. rumpeljschtizhen
    rumpeljschtizhen 3 February 2012 03: 02
    +1
    j the trouble of small nations is that they are small, you as Estonians or another hu..nya (nation) either below us or under pendosy or other NI when the small race does not have the right to self-determination .. historical fact ... who can bet
  13. common man
    common man 3 February 2012 08: 20
    +3
    One gets the impression that this is a disease of all small nationalities living as part of large states. A hypertrophied sense of self-consciousness, arising from a sense of enslavement by other people, and leading to petty, petty revenge with and without.
    1. Darn
      Darn 3 February 2012 08: 58
      0
      On the account of enslavement, rather they call this point of view.
    2. Jeen
      Jeen 3 February 2012 14: 12
      -1
      A typical statement of a typical Nazi, accustomed to dividing peoples into "smallish", inferior peoples and higher, "Aryan" races.
      Gentlemen, comrade Nazis, have you not been branded in Nuremberg?
      Or re-required?
      1. Aibolit
        Aibolit 3 February 2012 14: 16
        +3
        Quote: j
        Gentlemen, comrade Nazis, have you not been branded in Nuremberg?

        Stigmatized you masters of the Zionists On November 10, 1975, at the XXX session of the UN General Assembly, historic resolution No. 3379 was adopted, in which ZIONISM was recognized by the whole world as one of the forms of racism. This is an assessment of the entire world community.
        1. Jeen
          Jeen 3 February 2012 14: 27
          +1
          I am not a Jew and I have nothing to do with Israel.
          And here you are, being ancestors to the wall with your own Nazi statements, you are feverishly trying to translate the arrows
  14. kagorta
    kagorta 3 February 2012 09: 43
    0
    Our task at the present moment of history is simple. We must ensure the standard of living of our people an order of magnitude higher than in our former territories. And then we'll see whether to take them back or not. And the territory of the city’s flags is secondary. The last smart Tsar Alexander 3 did not in vain say that our goal is the Far East. And without the Baltic states and their territories, we will live. And they are without us and our market, this is a big question.
  15. gispanec
    gispanec 3 February 2012 10: 45
    0
    Quote: Tyumen 35
    Today the Estonian gold reserve is 200kg.

    and then exported from Russia as a colorimeter. As my great-grandmother said, she will stop the Estonian fighting elephant with great pleasure and the trunk will be torn off. She was not completely shot by the Estonian Nazis.
  16. bistrov.
    bistrov. 3 February 2012 11: 48
    +1
    These worthless "Chukhonts" who imagined themselves to be Europeans. At all times they put a spoke in the wheels of Russia, almost always fought on the side of its enemies. Just give them a good kick so that life doesn't seem like honey!
    1. Jeen
      Jeen 3 February 2012 14: 20
      -1
      Not only Estonians.
      ALL peoples subjugated and subjugated by Russia, as well as those under threat of subjugation - all of them opposed, oppose and will oppose submission.
      These are the laws of nature, known as the instinct of conservation of species and the law of rejection of alien organics.
      And all your emotional experiences are nothing more than an emotional ripple of misunderstanding of objective laws
  17. Denis
    Denis 3 February 2012 15: 05
    0
    Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.

    it should be added that now there is no
    and who then apologize to the eternal but terribly fighting and proud sixes?
  18. gispanec
    gispanec 3 February 2012 15: 16
    +1
    Quote: j
    Not only Estonians. ALL peoples subjugated and subjugated by Russia, as well as those under threat of subjugation - all of them opposed, oppose and will oppose subjugation. These are the laws of nature, known as the instinct of preserving the species and the law of rejecting alien organic matter. And all your emotional experiences are not more than an emotional ripple of misunderstanding of objective laws

    And what do you think Pindosia ??? completely !!! mind completely conquered by the British ..... and almost completely destroyed the local (indigenous) population! ..... ideological ghettos .. reservations ..
  19. Nechai
    Nechai 3 February 2012 18: 13
    +2
    Quote: dmitri077
    wild crimes of the NKVD-MGB-KGB

    Walter Schelenberg, in a report to his boss (this exact figure is in his "memoirs"), announced the number of losses of his agents. And compare with the number of those subjected to "repression" in the pre-war period (also in the public domain), the NKVDeshnaya figure will exceed no more than 30 people. And after all, Shelenberg gave ONLY about the losses of the RSHA, and the Abwehr? Remind, please, of what date, month, year, the troops, including the Nazi, laid down their arms on your territory and surrendered to the Red Army? If this is not in your current history, then you should know - at the same time as the Berlin garrison.
  20. Nechai
    Nechai 3 February 2012 19: 24
    +1
    Talk about what - guys, you at least a little bit comprehend YOUR historical experience. On the Chutka Lake you are the army of Alexander Nevsky "Chukhontsy beaten without counting", those were considered knights of the crusaders. And oh, how hard it was for Russia without you. Peter 1, again, to foreigners in your lands, which stood with a bone in their throats, fell in. The Bolsheviks gave you statehood. And they got gratitude for this (from all the peoples "depressed" by the tsarism by the way). Well, you've become one of the civilized nonhumans. Russia has dealt with its squabbles and again you are in it. Because THREAT IS AGAIN CREATED FROM YOUR LAND. Gorby and EBN, once again, guys live and multiply. So what? They immediately ran to NAT. The modern crusaders of democracy have been brought to our borders. With your compatriots, not Estonians, what are you doing? DOCOLE ?! If you, with the stubbornness of a maniac, step on the same historical "rake" again and again, what can we do? Genocide is not a Russian method, don't be afraid. But we will not let this down!
  21. Arc76
    Arc76 4 February 2012 22: 30
    +1
    I was in Tallinn 10 days ago. Impressions: almost everything is spoken in Russian, you can relax normally, I didn’t notice any military preparations, a couple of thin soldiers with backpacks in the freedom square are not hungry. Most importantly, even without Estonian citizenship, Russians are residents of the European Union there, and young people are trying to learn English and blame them on England and Ireland. For myself, I made it that - stupid, being a great country in general to pay attention to them, these are summer cottages.