The model of the self-propelled mortar "Grok" is presented.

At the thematic exhibition, timed to coincide with the Collegium of the Ministry of Defense and held from 19 to 23 in December 2016, samples of the development of the Petrel Research Institute in the field of rocket and artillery weapons were demonstrated. Among them were the models 82-mm self-propelled mortar 2C41 "Drak" and 120-mm self-propelled artillery "Phlox".

"Grok" is planned to be placed on the chassis "KAMAZ-4386" ("Typhoon Airborne"). Development work in this direction began in August 2015. The prototype should have been submitted before 31 December 2016. State tests are expected to be completed before 30 September 2018.

SAO "phlox"Armed with an 120-mm cannon (presumably 2A80) with 80 rounds of ammunition, a remote-controlled module with an 12,7-mm Kord machine gun.

SAO "Phlox"

After their adoption, new designs will replenish the “flower” fleet of military equipment of the armed forces of Russia.

The gorse is a genus of leguminous plants. Most often it is stunted, thorny or thornless bushes, subshrubs, vines. Their leaves are simple or ternate. Yellow flowers are formed in the final or axillary racemes, less often in the heads. Some species are spiky.

Phlox is a genus of flowering herbaceous plants of the Sinuhov family. Differ in the increased endurance. Their name means "flame", which was obtained because of the bright shades of their colors.

Comments

[Suharik.inline]

Phlox, that sounds great!
Let it serve the prosperity of Russia !!!

[cniza]

It arrived at our "flowerbed". Good luck.

[Teberii]

To increase mobility, the Airborne Forces should be of interest.

[Maxnet]

Interested in everyone, I think so.

[Oldenburg]

Well, why was it necessary to assign such a provocative name. What will our witches call the fighters who cut them on the Drok?

[user1212]

Quote: Oldenburg

How will our witches begin to call the fighters who cut them on the Drok?

Gunners :) Although it depends on the fighters. Airborne all jokes about berets long ago brought to the root

[cniza]

Quote: Oldenburg

Well, why was it necessary to assign such a provocative name. What will our witches call the fighters who cut them on the Drok?

Ours will find the right comparison.

Gunners :)

[Lopatov]

In artillery, these offices are not used much. names, prefer to dignify by indices. Or alter it, like "Genocide", but it still has to be earned.

[venik]

Quote: Oldenburg

How will our witches begin to call the fighters who cut them on the Drok?

===
Drokeny!

[Thirteenth]

"GORSE". Better to call it "DRBYUK", from the word drukat. During my service this word was widespread.

[lukewarm]

Phlox somehow looks unusual. For self-propelled guns. Clearly inspired by the experience of recent conflicts. Wheelbarrows. They put in trucks no matter what. Jeep with a machine gun, AGSom, maximum with ZUShka still go wherever. But the guns in the back of the truck - I thought that only the Syrians, from poverty. But no.

[Koshak]

Quote: unwillingly

Clearly inspired by the experience of recent conflicts. Wheelbarrows. They put in trucks no matter what. Jeep with a machine gun, AGSom, maximum with ZUShka still go wherever. But the guns in the back of the truck - I thought that only the Syrians, from poverty. But no.

Well, why only the Syrians. China, Israel, France - not from the poor.

[Lopatov]

Quote: unwillingly

Clearly inspired by the experience of recent conflicts. Wheelbarrows. They put in trucks no matter what.

This kind of solution appeared in the First World War. So no "recent conflicts"

Quote: unwillingly

But the guns in the back of the truck - I thought that only the Syrians, from poverty.

I would not call the same France a particularly poor country.


There is simply some confusion in terminology that is misleading. This kind of "motorized" guns are not "self-propelled guns for the poor", they are "towed guns for the rich"

Cause? The development of counter-battery control. It forced to make towed guns self-propelled. And from a cannon with a motor to a cannon in a car one step.

[Aviagr]

Quote: Spade

And from a cannon with a motor to a cannon in a car one step.

And from a cannon in a little car - to a pile of iron - second step .. When using hundreds of shock UAVs and loitering ammunition. And for these, "Sharp Eye" and a pair of Scolopendras are enough.

[Lopatov]

And ... Scalapendra ... Tactical task:
The firing range of the Caesar US Vulcano is 60 km. Pupkin's geometry tells us that it is about 11 thousand square kilometers. Taking into account the fact that pseudoscience tactics has such a concept as "contact line", and the probability of finding "Caesar" in the territory occupied by our troops is low, we divide it in half, we get 5500 square kilometers.

Attention, the question: how many "vigilant eyes" are needed to monitor such a territory in real time?
What should be the speed of a Scalapendra, which has no analogue in the world, to hit the SPG before firing. And then the "Vulcano" flight to the maximum range - about 1.5 - 2 minutes.

[Aviagr]

Quote: Spade

And then the "Vulcano" flight to the maximum range - about 1.5 - 2 minutes.

A counter-battery detects a start and calculates the coordinates of the battery for 5-10 seconds.
At this point, the "Sharp Eye" (or several) is launched and almost immediately behind them Scolopendra (from UAVs that provide patrolling of the territory). Scolopendra are aimed at the moving apart self-propelled guns with the "Sharp Eye", funerals are sent to the relatives of the "shovels".
Alternatively, self-propelled guns are detected even when they are advanced to positions by satellites or AWACS and are destroyed similarly.
The sect "but what about us ?!" once again put to shame ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: Aviagr

A counter-battery detects a start and calculates the coordinates of the battery for 5-10 seconds.
At this point, the "Sharp Eye" (or several) is launched and almost immediately behind them Scolopendra (from UAVs that provide patrolling of the territory).

60 km How long will they teleport there? And will they fly at all? 8)))
I am afraid that during this time the Caesars' battery will have time to shoot everything it can reach, and leave for another 60 km ... If not more ...

[Aviagr]

UAVs will be everywhere и always. For this, hundreds of thousands of them are needed - in peacetime they must circle along the borders, and as the time comes - fly towards the enemy (and at their own peril), but having time to give TsU and destroy cruise missiles.
RџSЂRё started In general, NOBODY doesn’t stop me from chasing them dozens or hundreds of enemy rear lines both for reconnaissance and sabotage purposes, albeit due to death - I still have hundreds of thousands of plastic gliders and low-resource engines stocked at the bases.
But you won’t save hundreds of thousands of MLRS carriers - therefore, exchanging 1: 1 or even 1: 3 ... 10 will be in my favor - mosquitoes!

[Lopatov]

Quote: Aviagr

When the war began, in general NOBODY prevents me from chasing them in the tens or hundreds of enemy rear

Nobody bothers? What about the enemy?

By the way, I still do not understand what the speed of "Shkolopendr" is, that they can fight art. systems firing at 60 km.

[Aviagr]

Quote: Spade

Nobody bothers? What about the enemy?

And he, too, is from the sect "but what for us ?!" ?
The tactics of entering hundreds of shock UAVs into enemy territory have already been described in the articles on Mosquito Weapons. He will not be able to place air defense and artillery pieces with controlled detonation of shells everywhere, everywhere: the trains will go both at the maximum height (3-4 km) and at the minimum - 20-30 m; revealed - to be destroyed. And the UAV-rocket box only needs to fire the missile in some direction, and its pre-launching is carried out either from the outside, or the ZHPS / Glogass. Therefore, I do not need a long range of missiles - I bring the CARRIER closer to the enemy. Moreover, Scolopendra is only ONE of the many types of payload on the UAV carrier: instead of 4-6 Scolopendras, you can hang 1-2 more powerful and "smart" ones - just for "long-range" use - this is also included in the concept of a mosquito weapon: 1-9-90 (1% expensive, 9% - medium and 90% - mosquito weapons), in order to simply stupidly crush (force all air defense forces to be wasted on them), etc.
Wars of the future are fleeting (Karabakh) and two-stage (like the United States in Iraq): infrastructure, heavy equipment and means of its reproduction are destroyed - and after two years you enter and finish off the warring gangs (which all this time you are helping with a rifleman and other "small" weapons to destroy each other).
And all sorts of MLRS, Almaty, howitzers - only drank at the state level-with this weapon only deputies of the State Duma to drive, but to arrange Maidan ...

[alex-cn]

Mr. Maxim stated that the invention of a machine gun would put an end to wars ... Gentlemen, the creators of nuclear weapons promised the same thing ... there’s a bolt for every nut ... Only the infantry Ivan, Johan, John and others will remain forever ... .

[Alexey RA]

Yeah ... and on the other hand, a pair of An-12BK-PPS enters a flock of UAVs. And massive (and hence cheap and on a civilian elemental base) UAVs lose their communication channels. And a mass UAV will not be able to recognize the target on its own - for the real target does not stand completely open, at a previously known angle, and even against a contrasting background.
Pomnitsa, Americans and ours made holographic target recognition systems that allowed the rotation of an recognizable target - but they closed even a small part of the target or changed its outline interrupted recognition at times.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Aviagr

The tactics of entering hundreds of shock UAVs into enemy territory have already been described in articles by Mosquito weapons.

Yes, somehow unconvincingly described. At the level "since the enemy will not oppose us, we will beat him dry, and" so we will win "(c)"

[Aviagr]

Quote: Spade

Yes, somehow unconvincingly described. At the level "since the enemy will not oppose us,

- of course: I always say that I lay 20-30% of losses, which will be expressed in hundreds or thousands of UAVs, but the rest will SAY the exposed firing points! But, son, did the Poles help you - in the sense of Leo in Syria? But in their place there should be dozens of Hogs - let them burn this little thing - these are 4 rows of pawns in front of the MAIN pieces! But without tanks and my "mosquitoes" - how will they fight now? Mahmuds and Dzhamshuts? - They won't scatter to die for Perdoganych ...
Well, I advise the apologists of the "EW and EMP" sect to read articles about the Mosquito Weapon.

[venik]

Quote: Spade

This kind of "motorized" guns are not "self-propelled guns for the poor", they are "towed guns for the rich"

=====
Bravo, Shovels !!! Clear and capacious! Better not to say.

[venik]

Quote: unwillingly

But the guns in the back of the truck - I thought that only the Syrians, from poverty. But no.

====
Strange ... Does the "Grad" on the "Ural" chassis bother you? Half of the world uses them, incl. and the Soviet / Russian army! And how many clones have made, all and sundry!
But the Swedish and French howitzers on the chassis of heavy trucks do not bother? It seems that neither Sweden nor France can be called rogues!
Everything is simple - on a theater, where the infrastructure is developed and there is a wide network of paved roads - such installations have very significant advantages over tracked self-propelled guns:
- they are much more mobile;
- much simpler and cheaper to manufacture and operate;
- do not destroy the road surface;

Well, where there are no good roads or few, there is a place for tracked self-propelled guns.

[Lopatov]

Quote: venik

Well, where there are no good roads or few, there is a place for tracked self-propelled guns.

Not so simple. Motorized guns do not have the same protection as classic self-propelled guns. And if they do, then their cost is almost the same, and all the advantages are lost, leaving only disadvantages.

[venik]

Quote: Spade

Quote: venik

Well, where there are no good roads or few, there is a place for tracked self-propelled guns.

Not so simple. Motorized guns do not have the same protection as classic self-propelled guns. And if they do, then their cost is almost the same, and all the advantages are lost, leaving only disadvantages.

=====
I agree. But take for example "Hyacinth" or "Peony" - well, armored, well, on a caterpillar track, so what? All the same, the calculation works "on the ground"! Nearby will explode and that-that !!
In addition, all of them, except perhaps "Msta-S" and "Coalition", have ANTI-BULLET armor (like most Western counterparts) !!
The issue here is not security, but deployment / collapse speed - this is the MAIN defense of artillery batteries.
And about the price here, you’re wrong, my friend! And fundamentally wrong! A wheeled chassis (even an armored one) costs several times less than a crawler one. In addition, operating costs are longer and lower.
As you rightly noted, such a system ("towed gun for the rich") is closer in cost to a towed gun (+ tractor) than to a tracked ACS.

[Ded_Mazay]

It is not very correct to compare "cannon in the back of a truck" and "Cannon on a wheeled chassis".

In general, a wheeled platform is the right decision for our troops. Given the size of our country, mobility is the basis of defense capability. Yes, no one has yet canceled the "ZhBT kulak" tanks and MLRS, but the "whip" of wheeled artillery will not be superfluous either.

[rasputin17]

My wife loves phlox very much and plantes all flower beds in the spring with them !!! It blooms all summer until the autumn cold !!

[avt]

"Drok" is planned to be placed on the chassis "KAMAZ-4386" ("Typhoon-VDV")

Tower variant, "Cornflower" ?? Then it will be a cool self-propelled gun.

[Lopatov]

Apparently, this is not "Cornflower"

[avt]

Quote: Spade

Apparently, this is not "Cornflower"

Well, I meant the continuation of the line in the tower version.

[Lopatov]

It makes no sense to install "cornflower" in the tower.
Firstly, it is outdated, and will not be able to work with new mines of increased power. Do not fit into the cassette 8)))
Secondly, too complicated for this. Everything was done there to reduce the recoil energy while maintaining adequate weight. For installation in a tower, it is possible to use simpler and more reliable retracement brakes and knurls, rather than jumping around with a tambourine around a massive shutter and devices that prevent damage to the gun during misfire.

[venik]

It’s interesting, but what is it in the background behind the BMP (BMD?) With the original module and a gun with an awesomely long barrel ?? Maybe someone knows what?

[Maxim Sheludyakov]

Go "Baikal" .... why layouts? It seems already in the gland

[venik]

Quote: Maxim Sheludyakov

Come "baikal" ....

====
Yes, on "Baikal" (at first I thought so myself) as it is not very similar. The barrel is too long. And the module itself is of a different form.

[Berkut24]

Sometimes I just go nuts over names that give new technology. Maybe our techies hire a professional marketer so that later foreign customers do not scratch their turnips?

[Alekseits]

Quote: Maxim Sheludyakov

Go "Baikal" .... why layouts? It seems already in the gland

So iron, in full size, crawling at the exhibition will take, or even the whole hall.

[marp]

The petrel may.
They were updated well, and they scored young animals.
Their leader is sensible.

[_Slavs]

This is the most wonderful option! In this caliber, it looks like shooting on the go (albeit with a slowdown). 4 km around and with a car. targeting multiple targets. Still by the appearance of a mine with dist. will be undermining. Pieces 30 per minute throws. Up to 1,5-2 km may organize a simultaneous arrival of 2-3 minutes. This is what the troops will appreciate. The cornflower is not bad, but trailed, more sharpened to work on the area ... And then one machine = one battery of trays, but quickly, precisely, the defeat is stronger and mobile. Yes and min machine 180-200 pieces will bring.

[Elephant]

The Israelis have a similar 120 mm howitzer mounted on a lighter chassis, such as our Tiger.

[Lopatov]

Howitzer?
Not among the Israelis, but among the Americans. And not 120, but 105. And the chassis is heavier, and not lighter (with a carrying capacity of 3.7 tons). And the rest is right ... 8)))
In addition, the Americans consider the tool with a preliminary roll-out of the barrel too complicated, therefore, they are only asking the price ... for about 8 years.

The Israelis have a 120 mm mortar.

[_Slavs]

It's all handles. I was overjoyed by others. Yes, now 82 fly for 6 km and there will definitely be an arrival of 2-3 minutes (by canopy a couple with an interval of 1,5-2 sec + direct fire in the interval between the first and second, in the movement of the type of aviation Hephaestus - we hit the machine in the coordinate taking into account of their position, like the Swedes double-barreled on boats - that would be a song) at the machine. system.

[Lopatov]

Quote: _Slavs

It's all handles.

The same with the Israeli mortar. Manual loading, aiming and restoration of aiming - ASUNO

Quote: _Slavs

in motion like aviation hephaestus

But this is unlikely. Also, the stabilizer clings, it hurts curly for the money comes out. Yes and no need. Short stops make it easier.

[voyaka uh]

Aviagr,
"which will be expressed in hundreds, thousands of UAVs," ////

I am an ardent supporter of UAVs, but you, I think, are exaggerating
their striking power. UAVs (real military), firstly, are not very cheap and if you multiply
for thousands ... Secondly, they require a very sophisticated logistics application,
many experienced operators and officers over them, technicians, programmers
ready. There are no thousands in Israel, only hundreds of UAVs, but people to service them
already missing. And people you can’t pick up on the street. They must be carefully selected.
and learn. And the missiles with which they hit ground targets are very expensive, ultralight,
with wound electronics. So, in the end - a self-propelled howitzer, of course, is real
"soak" with a UAV, but much more difficult and more expensive than you imagine.

[Aviagr]

"You have a UAV of the wrong system ..." (c)
If you have read my articles, then it directly says: UAVs are divided into several types, more precisely, a glider with an internal combustion engine is unified, but the filling is DIFFERENT. There are "mules" - UAV-rocket_boxes, there are Gunners - these with electronics are the most expensive, there are fighter-machine gunners, sacrificial baits, etc.
And I developed the design of a very cheap airframe and a two-stroke internal combustion engine with self-ignition from compression - for 5-10 takeoffs and landings. So there is a "shift": initially you can act as a Gunner, and end your "service" - with a sacrificial bait - it flies ahead of everyone and provokes enemy fire, the Gunners fix the target (except for those already reconnoitered) and give the command to start missiles from UAV mules / boxes. If the targets are unprotected, then you can drive with machine guns - the submachine gun is also your own, chambered for 7,62TT - and the power is normal, and the recoil is reduced (plus additional devices).
If the enemy is "silent", waiting, he can begin to provoke ground robotic tankettes - here joint efforts will lead to unmasking the positions and the destruction of the enemy.
And I have my own rockets - on PUVRD - for slow ground "carts" and stationary targets you can't imagine better.
I write only about what I myself have developed, although it is clear that I will use electronics or radio command control by strangers - but this is all there is - there are no my cheap mass devices.

[Couchexpert]

The article has more information about plants than about technology. Yes, VO is not that ...

[venik]

Quote: CouchExpert

The article has more information about plants than about technology. Yes, VO is not that ...

===
Your mood is not that, but VO is the same as it was !!

[Zaurbek]

Do they come up with names for "sober"? Or encrypt something?