LMV IVECO, Tiger, Wolf and everything, everything, everything ...
And although this material is not directly an analysis of the "work" of any onolitega, it will nevertheless help the reader to better navigate this tangled story and the intricacies of the interests concerned. The experts in this topic were BlackShark and comrades from the Military Branch of the Adventure (materials from other respected forums were also used on the Adventure). The material itself is submitted as a kind of dialogue or discussion, if necessary - write, re-create.
Al72
“The tiger, however, is not exactly a Russian car. In the sense of components. Only the Cummins B205 engine, American, already deprives him of the right to be a real army vehicle. The tiger was made as an export vehicle, to the requirements of the UAE. It turned out to be very successful - yes. But the share of imported components in it is indecently high. I suspect that with the Italians we will be able to achieve a much greater degree of localization. "
Please comment.
Djoker
What is there in the "Tigre" imported, except for the engine ..? In addition, there is a "Tiger" with a domestic engine YMZ-530 ... There is a "Wolf" ...
And LMV was going to collect under the license ... Ie spare parts from Italy, and assembly at KAMAZ (most of the money will go to Italy) ...
Here is what they write on WIFE:
This decision was personally made by Serdyukov, who was propagandized by someone about the LMV last year, about their “security”. As I understand it, all of the following - pushes KAMAZ with the purchase of two machines, tests in Bronnitsy, etc. - was already a fine-tuning of fast people under the actually adopted “highest” decision.
The tests themselves in Bronnitsy actually boiled down to the tests of road performance, where the LMV did not show any advantages over the Tigers (or rather, gave it to him). Therefore, the findings of the test results were contradictory. The defense in Bronnitsy was not tested in any way, therefore all the conclusions on this score, later transmitted to Serdyukov, were based, as I understand it, mainly on the information of the company itself and purely approximate domestic assessments.
However, and so it is obvious that, in general, IVECO (especially anti-mine) security due to the design features must certainly be higher than that of the Tiger. The problem here, IMHO, is not in the choice of LMV as such, but in the decision to immediately buy large quantities of them for import, rather than urgently drank and create your own copy (or saw through the "Tiger" in the same direction). Instead of following the Chinese way, they break the comedy “to be like in Europe”.
The whole story is sad in the sense (as is the case with Mistral) that it demonstrates the disorganization and partly randomization of the current Russian procurement system and the acute problems at the interface between the Defense Ministry and the defense industry, which are now only getting worse.
Sincerely, Exeter
basilevs
What is there in the "Tigre" imported, except for the engine ..? In addition, there is a "Tiger" with a domestic engine YMZ-530 ... There is a "Wolf" ...
Gearbox import there yet. Even the tires used to be imported, Michelin X. Now I don’t know - I hope, we have already mastered our production.
They wanted to attach a domestic engine to it in 2002. Only then it was GAZ-562. But for some reason did not happen.
"Wolf" is not there yet. There are prototypes, experimental samples. Serial machine yet.
And LMV was going to collect under the license ... Ie spare parts from Italy, and assembly at KAMAZ (most of the money will go to Italy) ...
They promise to bring localization to 80%. It will be interesting to see.
Iron
Arzamas didn’t cut the order for the Tigers, the guys do it as much as they rivet.
At GAZ, they have not been collected for a long time, more in Barantsev's time (so that the devils eat it!)
PAMS / CAMS / ZAMS - ditched after the fact.
And the fact that there is a purchase of foreign technology, rather should be perceived as
The need to urgently have this technique, that is, how to prepare for different
sort of trouble. This also applies to the Mistrals and even more relevant.
It is time.
Two - assembly in Russia.
Three - the level of localization of production. Although it is unknown, but from the experience of civilian automotive industry - they will bend over.
Four and more - technology, jobs, production experience, production capacity ... "
BlackShark
I would like to note that for Iveco there is a hinged armor set holding up to 14.5mm, but then it becomes less mobile. Those. if the “Wolf” still has chances to get such protection, then the “Tiger” has nothing to catch here. Those. This is, in general, a very good machine. However, no one about the “Wolf” also says anything bad yet (since the tests are far from over).
In general, the adoption of the supply is not all. There is also adoption for service. And the car type "Vodnik" also in the supply. And what? But journalists do not know these subtleties. And the napalm harness in tons, the entire capital has already smoked ...
And one more thing - the machine of the ALL tests complex (“Iveco”) has not yet passed, and it will not appear in service without it. Even taking into account the clearly political subtext (it is necessary to strengthen the alliance with the "knotted" Europe and tear them away from the USA and from the imbeciles of the Young Europeans who put a lame American horse, and it is necessary to tear them off, including with contracts, "buns", and they, coupled with the "hydrocarbon bomb" and cooperation in the purchase of technology, tie ... so reliable).
I note that the “Wolves” with the “Bears” also did not put an end to. True, all this can lead to some unification, from which everyone is trying to escape, but does not work out in any way. However, when we have 6 types tanks In the year they did and they are armed with 3 tanks in a couple of dozens of modifications, and there are also more on the HH - what to get used to?
Al72
Well ... Actually, I was interested in the presence of imported components. As a car enthusiast, I understand that if the engine and the box are imported, then the hell is not a "Russian" car. Those. Summing up the interim, we can say that there is a normal competition between almost equivalent projects using all means, as well as all over the world. There is hope that the customer will win.
Well, again, judging by the latest rumors and decisions, by a significant increase in the procurement budget - we can say that the equipment is needed urgently and you need to be in time ... And lastly, if the components were purchased by Americans, then you should welcome any option from their needles. then go guess what axis they will include us again and impose an embargo. Yes, and "Cavalier" deserved from us a little nishtyakov, in vain, that he was walking around in Europe in a jacket with our coat of arms
cromeshnic
A few selected quotes on sabzh:
Lawlessness is also in the fact that the producers of "Tigra" asked for modern armor, providing 6 protection class, from "RusSpetsStali" - the structure ... "Rostekhnollogiy" !!! Before the exhibition MVSV-2010, Mr. Chemezov himself said that they could not yet give the armor the required parameters, but "are working on it." That "worked out" ...
according to some dirty rumors, the fact was played that Serdyukov failed to cope with the “Tiger” because of the tightness of management (and it seemed he couldn’t even slow down), while on Iveke it rolled with a breeze. So the undoubted fault of AMZ and GAZ is there, could for the minister VIP option sdeat :)
But the story does not end there. From unofficial sources, it was found out that in the winter in the Bronnitsy near Moscow, comparative tests for cross-country ability were organized: an army truck Ural, Hummer, IVECO LMV and Tigris went out for half a meter of snow virgin lands. And what? Ural was driving slowly but surely (he “rows” snow with bridges). The tiger famously galloped forward, not even thinking of getting stuck. Hummer immediately shamefully rose. And LMV was moving barely, scooping up the snow with a shaft in front of itself - and in the end with difficulty came out on the track broken by the Urals. Even worse, the car behaved when driving on virgin soil on the "inserts" in the wheels, allowing you to drive with flat tires: the Tiger left, but the LMV remained. It did not work out of the Italian Lynx snow leopard!
And what about reliability and maintainability? After all, the Ivekovo engine with common rail injection and electronic control requires competent maintenance and excellent fuel! By the way, according to Russian experts, the LMV engine compartment is arranged in such a way that it is impossible to install a more powerful diesel engine there. But the main problem is different. The Russian equivalent of LMV - the Tiger of Arzamas production - costs 3,5 million rubles, or 90 thousand euros, and the bulk of this money remains in the country, with the exception of payment for an imported engine. And one IVECO LMV will cost at least 300 thousand euros, which, despite the KAMAZ assembly, will almost completely go abroad. Feel the difference? At the same time, again according to our information, IVECO does not sell its armored cars, but leases it, presenting very harsh conditions to customers. They wrote that Rostechnollogia sabotaged the creation of a domestic engine for Tiger in every way. The coolest thing is that now Yaroslavl YMZ-530, which should be installed on the Tigre, is already expected ... on IVECO!
They wrote that the "Rostekhnollogii" in every way sabotaged the creation of a domestic engine for the "Tiger". The coolest thing is that now Yaroslavl YMZ-530, which should be installed on the Tigre, is already expected ... on IVECO!
BlackShark
Here, by the way, is an interesting opinion about IVECO LMV with VIFA ....
Of course, you can take an example ... for example, from India - to organize tenders, contests, stretch these events for years (if not decades), transfer and cancel.
At the same time, without all this fuss (as experience shows - corruption), it is absolutely clear that today the LMV is the most protected, finished and reliable armored car out of the three mentioned above.
Formation of the first light brigades on armored vehicles is planned for this year by the Ministry of Defense - i.e. need a car today, not tomorrow / day after tomorrow.
In any case, however, both LMV and Tiger are a temporary option. A few years later, they will be replaced by a promising machine, I hope on the basis of the "Wolf."
cromeshnic, you write
A few selected quotes on sabzh: ...
Lawlessness is also in the fact that the producers of "Tigra" asked for modern armor, providing 6 protection class, from "RusSpetsStali" - the structure ... "Rostekhnollogiy" !!! Before the exhibition MVSV-2010, Mr. Chemezov himself said that they could not yet give the armor the required parameters, but "are working on it." That "worked out" ..
"Tiger" does not pull this armor on the load, that's because what a thing. "Wolf" - yes. The "wolf" can also pull ceramics, which will cover it both in 6 and above. But the "Wolf" to the series is still a few years.
according to some dirty rumors, the fact was played that Serdyukov failed to cope with the “Tiger” because of the tightness of management (and it seemed he couldn’t even slow down), while on Iveke it rolled with a breeze. So the undoubted fault of AMZ and GAZ is there, could for the minister VIP option sdeat :)
The original reason is not at all. Although this episode was, but somewhat embellished. Initially - generally high international policy, then the urgent need of the troops, and only then - personal preferences and inconvenience of control. And someone's interests there (I do not comment).
But the story does not end there. From unofficial sources it was possible to find out that in winter in the Bronnitsy near Moscow, comparative tests for cross-country ability were organized: an army truck Ural, Hummer, IVECO LMV and Tiger left for half a meter of virgin snow ...
A "Tiger" does not float, for example, and they shoved him into intelligence units. Question of use. And the question of why you need a car and more importantly - protection or flotation. And what kind of theater will be in light crews, where they will fall (if they fall), along with the rest of the equipment.
And what about reliability and maintainability? After all, the Ivekovo engine with common rail injection and electronic control requires competent maintenance and excellent fuel! By the way, according to Russian experts, the LMV engine compartment is arranged like this ...
"Tiger" is also no longer 90K, but more ... And, by the way, its engine is also not primitive. Neither Cummins nor YMZ
They wrote that the "Rostekhnollogii" in every way sabotaged the creation of a domestic engine for the "Tiger". The coolest thing is that now Yaroslavl YMZ-530, which should be installed on the Tigre, is already expected ... on IVECO!
So can another engine be installed on IVECO or not? You already decide on quoting.
cromeshnic
BlackShark, you write:
"Tiger" will not pull this armor on load capacity ...
Omonovsky easy 5 class pulls. On the Tiger-M 6 class promised - I do not know how much his agility has fallen, but I think no less than the LMV which is covered by the CPVT. The wolf in the protected version defaults to the B-32, the cymes is that it is protected from the DShK and KPVT as a LMV. Personally, I do not doubt it. As for the series - so give AMZ 30 billion, he will provide you with Volkov in the same three years.
The original reason is not at all. Although such an episode was ...
Interests of sidekick Serdyukov associated with Kamaz? Here, for example, Medvedev famously rode Tigris, Putin seemed to like Putin too ...
A "Tiger" does not swim, for example, and they shoved him into reconnaissance ...
Well, Duc is now almost no one in the world swims ... Even Vodnik.
The question of application, etc. - can it be better to figure it out first, and then buy the equipment? And then there is a choice of SPM-3 ...
Tiger is also no longer 90K, but more ...
LMV will cost all 425 thousand euros, or 17000000 rubles ... Interestingly, for such a loot (30 billion) can be made from the Wolf of the Vunderwaffe?
So can another engine be installed on IVECO or not? You already decide on quoting.
Well, you yourself are advocating for "full localization" (even 80% is a big question). It looks like they are going to thrust a YMZ diesel engine - which they did for Tiger-M and Wolf - which was sabotaged by Chemezov himself - because of the absence of which the Tiger so fully entered into the army and did not make it.
Well, because no one compared the Tiger and LMV full-fledged mileage, shelling, undermining. It would be - would be in the press. While in the light, only an episode on virgin snow, which the LMV failed. And these are Tigers, not Tigers-M by increased TTH with domestic components, not Wolves with similar characteristics. And why, by the way, is the domestic engine and improved protection just now on Tiger-M? Ah, this is Chemezov, he built all sorts of wiles, blocked the engine, then the armor ... And where is the honesty here?
BlackShark
cromeshnic, you write:
Omonovsky easy 5 class pulls
A mine resistance at zero. And between the 5 class GOST and STANAG-4569 Level III there is a "some" difference, is not it? In mine resistance, and bullets too. This is practically our 6 class.
By the way, the "Tiger" with the 5 class weighs more than LMV, and carries less load. So what? Well, we have already discussed all this.
On the Tiger-M 6 class promised - I do not know how much his agility has fallen, but I think no less than the LMV which is covered by the CPVT.
I do not believe in protection from KPVT at all, these are promises, most likely. Painfully serious thing - cartridge 14.5х114mm. In 12.7mm - I can believe it. But on the "Tigre" and not get it. M or not M. Will you argue?
The wolf in the protected version of the default B-32 holds ...
And I doubt that 14.5mm and it will hold. You yourself somewhere first compare the power supply of one and the other cartridge.
12.7mm - maybe. But only here BYE "Wolf" - an experienced machine.
As for the series - so give AMZ 30 billion, he will provide you with Volkov in the same three years.
Will not provide. If only because by that time only the tests will end. And then - please. It will pass the test, I only "for".
Interests of sidekick Serdyukov associated with Kamaz? Here is Medvedev for example ...
And someone said that the "Wolf" will not produce? Or is the production of "Tiger" stopped?
Well, Duc is now almost no one in the world swims ... Even Vodnik.
Vodnik sailed. Not bad. But his problems were not in that. By the way, VDVshny version of "Shot" is floating. But what he looks like!
In general, it is very bad that does not float.
Although, if used on the southern theaters - then do not care. Most likely, there and aim.
LMV will cost all 425 thousand euros, or 17000000 rubles ... Interestingly, for such a loot (30 billion) can be made from the Wolf of the Vunderwaffe?
I still believe that someone enough to drive a finger across the ceiling, the price of "Iveco" and everything else there is not. And the numbers from the LG - as well. Real. For the reasons I voiced (in the next branch) about "concepts", "Russian chanson" and so on.
Nowadays, on the ceiling - only soot from peat fires
Well, you yourself are advocating for "full localization" (even 80% is a big question).
Right. The greater the degree and the faster - the better. So in all. By the way, why is 80% questionable? Trolley harder, for example, thermal imagers? Well, the question is only in the localization TERM.
Looks like they are going to stick a YMZhny diesel - which was done under the Tiger-M and the Wolf ...
But not because of the engine, in general, he did not hit. And because of the change of opinion at home and abroad on such machines, what they should be able to and keep. And while no one has covered them. You imagine the needs of the sun in cars of this class can you imagine? Are there really enough 700, 1000, but at least 1500 pieces ?!
Well, because no one compared the Tiger and LMV full mileage ...
Well, no one has yet adopted "Iveco" in service.
And these are Tigers, not Tigers-M by increased TTH with domestic components
Where is this "Tiger-M"?
No wolves with similar characteristics. And why by the way ...
Oh, what a bad Chemezov. And there was no crisis in the yard? Or not? And there are no problems with the development? Not with anything? How easy it is to find the guilty ... "The enemy tangible is better than the invisible - you can spit in his portrait" (c) I do not remember who
STi
But the "Wolf" to the series is still a few years.
By the way, why so long? This is not a fighter and not a bomber or a nuclear submarine, which prevents you from setting up prototypes and for a year drive them saturated everywhere? If a car is needed "yesterday", then you need to work for it, and not weave intrigues with purchases of IVEC. I think it would be quite possible to cope, and it turns out that they are pulling the cat by ... tail. We would have sat on the "Tigers" for the time being, and there the Wolf or its subsequent modification would have arrived, and during the tests it would be possible to prepare and modernize the capacities for mass production.
I do not understand what is happening now.
I am not against the purchase of IVEC, but now it all just looks like lobbying for someone else’s auto industry, they would do everything according to their mind and there would be no questions.
Production itself is probably still, if you still decide to buy, will deploy a year and a half.
BlackShark
For the year will not work. First factory tests, then state. Then the troops need. Here in a year in any way. And even for two.
By the way, IVECO is also waiting, if that ...
Well, I said - there is a whole fusion of interests, from interstate to army needs and someone’s personal needs.
I also do not understand why dzhipiki desperately became necessary.
Not that badly. But need. Local wars do not become less and in our age they will be enough (well, if they are). And it is better not to blow up on the UAZ, which drove from the PVD to the neighboring battalion, but on the Iveco or the Wolf with the Bear. Yes, and under fire fall too. Although under fire - and on the "Tigre" is possible, but worse. But better than the armored UAZ.
You just count how many people died in Chechnya in such situations. Atleast approximately.
Have our army at least just armored (which nevertheless appeared in the troops in a decent amount, 20 did not pass years after Afgan, when they became necessary) vehicles, and it’s better to be mine-proof (although it should be understood that this is not a panacea once, everything the matter is in the mass of explosives, it is possible to send a tank to the moon, if necessary ...) - there would be less casualties.
Well, the formation of light mobile parts has become necessary. The army has shrunk, requirements for troop mobility, etc. are growing. All this is already 5 once chewed.
Yes, and for intelligence, we need new cars.
By the way, so what, and claims about the presence of a Common Rail engine on the LMV are the funniest. And what about YAMZ-530 / 53x? And in Brazilian Cummins? And on a number of promising domestic (created, including and in partnership with foreign firms from Germany, Austria, Italy, France) diesels?
Nothing, no one complained about the fragility of the "Tiger", sort of.
Scary Cubanoid
I also do not understand why dzhipiki desperately became necessary.
Comrades !!!
Comrade BS has already OPEN text several times stated that light brigades (and a thousand units of equipment for them) are needed today. Almost opened the veil of secrecy. Well, for some reason, the GSH are sure that such brigades and such equipment are necessary in the number of "many" terms "yesterday." Very m. B. That there will be brigades on IVECA and brigades on Tigers and Wolfs. And maybe mixed. I do not see problems with it, especially if they have dviglo and the box will be the same.
Those. Knowing the production capabilities of our factories, GSH is quite likely to calculate the maximum number of such brigades at an accelerated pace (by supplying three machines at once). (And maybe storage bases for quick mobilization of "partisans").
Where are several light brigades to apply tomorrow? Yes, even to pacify Kyrgyzstan, even though the armed forces of the OUN / UPA in the mountains of the Carpathians to track down ... But at least pick out the quality of dugouts! Who knows what military analysts have calculated?
For any of these tasks, light brigades are much more necessary and medium and heavy. I’m not saying that their use will allow to keep the equipment and personnel of medium and heavy brigades (which are several times more expensive both in terms of price / resources and in terms of training) for conflicts of a more different level. Well, or at least so that their retained numbers would make “probable friends” refrain from starting such a conflict.
(But it’s so tempting to “dry out” the Russian army in a series of minor conflicts, forcing you to use force and means in direct and portable ways)
Yes, there is a political moment (often much more important than the well-being of a plant, albeit a native one), when you need to give a carrot to a future ally. And if you remember what the last 3 of the year is writing on this resource, then it is immediately clear that there are different ways to use foreign technologies like this by hook or by crook, they also have a place to be. Remember the episode with the attempt to buy Opel. Think again why he surrendered to Sberbank? What do bankers understand in engineering?
And most importantly (in my opinion): we have American / European tugriks - like a shag fool. This is one of the ways (as well as Mistrali) to spend it not on sneakers and zhopogreyki, but on the right things. In the shortest possible time.
But most likely all these arguments are taking place at the same time. Zaitsev, at the state level, is killed by sprinkling chalk over the entire sector!
and it’s better minzazashchischennye (although it should be understood that this is not a panacea never, the whole matter in the mass of explosives, you can send a tank to the moon, if necessary ...) - there would be less victims.
The mass character of machines with high mine protection will force all bearded postgraduate students of the madrassa to organize much more serious “bookmarks” on the roads, which will require more time, effort and resources (including explosives) for each “bookmark”.
All other things being equal, this will significantly reduce the total number of “bookmarks”, which means it will reduce our losses. Including indirectly more time for sapper work at the enemy increases the likelihood of detection even during work, and a greater amount of various materials buried in the ground will make it more likely to detect the “laying” of engineering intelligence. And the organization of a serious charge "from scrap materials" requires a much more different qualifications.
sapper tank
The mass character of machines with high mine protection will force all bearded graduate students to madrassas
Well, in order to jerk the box of explosives on the road, the mind does not need much. I have repeatedly written about it here. Just put the PTM on the lining of the box and that's it! But to dig and mask, yes, you need to try differently.
Scary Cubanoid
The truth portrayed Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya and ignored why we are needed. Three times asked a question. Since you have taken together with the BSH "to pull the condom on the globe of Ukraine" (BSH quote), then explain why suddenly so urgently. About Kyrgyzstan and the UPA is not even funny. For Kyrgyzstan, there will be enough airborne forces for the eyes. And if the “heavy” brigades are not enough, they will only help. For persecution of forests UPA brigade in IVEKAH ... Well, in the General Staff are sure and all the point. Here explain why the ass to tear "the maximum rate staffed the maximum number of brigades." In this case, as many as three different types of machines. Yeah, wait dviglo and the box is the same ... You are an optimist, nemeryanny. Well, what is the gain in IVECO time before the Wolf? If IVECO also pass the entire test cycle. While the build will be adjusted, then the factory, etc. O here BSH wrote. Well, okay, the factory will skip and the difference will get a maximum of a year. Well, at HUA HUANU is a sombrero? Like a fool shag yes you scho? And money is being cut for education. So can education be better funded? In Novosibirsk, the education of 2 billion is not enough. And you have so much shoe polish.
About Krigiz OUN I wrote from the bald. Explaining that it is not known what the analysts at headquarters predicted there. But, as everyone remembers well, even 7 August 2008, very few people believed that Georgians were suicidal. And our armed forces began deployment at least six months later.
Continuing the debate about possible scenarios without an array of source data is purely like a fortune telling.
Next: Ivekah at least 3 year on state tests and the launch of production. Volkam and Tigram-M - about as well. The whole tsimus is that IVECO will want to do, if I'm not mistaken, KAMAZ, Volkov - GAS, and Tigers - Arzamas. I have no doubt for a second that all three plants chose / designed machines with an eye on their production capabilities (equipment, specialists, suppliers). Accordingly, forcing GAZ and KAMAZ to produce the Tigers - guaranteed to fuck problems until they debug the entire chain under the Tiger. The same is true for the Wolf and for IVECO.
About the YaMZ engine it seems that today it has been written more than once that it climbs in the Tigger and the Wolf and, it seems, in IVECO. And especially in the light of 80% localization ...
So if we want all the 3 of the plant to produce a quality product as soon as possible, we will have to put up with the 3 machines. On the one hand, we are no strangers to razunification, and on the other hand, of the 3x, in the end, the strongest and best will survive. There will be plenty to choose from according to the experience of MASS operation, which is not at all equal to the tests.
About obrazanee - this is your cry of a liberal soul? Or is it in you inner Sharikov requires "to select and share"?
Spending gold reserves is not tricky. How now they say "gov ... about the question!"
We did not finish academies. But CH1 and CH2, and before them Afgan, clearly showed that escorting columns with tanks was the firing of cannons at sparrows. And with the regular losses of expensive guns. (I already wrote that during CHNNUMX I kept records of defective armored vehicles in the North Caucasus Military District and the United States Army in the Czech Republic)
Pounding for ammunition / vodka can be either on the tank - or on the UAZ. (about this today also wrote). For modern intelligence requirements, the available armor is also not suitable.
I repeat once again an important (albeit cynical) thesis: we cannot afford to lose expensive tanks and infantry fighting vehicles in various “sweeps” there.
Ravil
I dealt with Tiger.
Passability from him, just, very worthy. And in the mountains and govnomesu.
But there are fatal flaws that put an end to it, like on a combat vehicle.
I list the degree of fatality:
The engine is not armored. At all. None of the versions I have seen with different booking options. Slightly covered radiator. And from the sides, the engine can be stopped by a single queue from 5,45
Open machine gun turret. The machine gunner naked sticking to the waist. Removed the first bullet and stuck in the hatch, blocking access to the machine gun (AGS). The machine becomes unarmed.
The engine dies from military diesel over 2-3 refueling. (the thesis about putting things in order and ensuring the quality of solyars in the war, sweeping aside from the move, like unscientific fantasy)
In addition, for an easy reconnaissance vehicle in our realities, the ability to swim is indispensable.
Conclusion: with the elimination of the first and third problems, "Tiger" will be quite good as a base for lightweight hardware.
I do not understand what an asshole, recorded the "Tigers" in the staff of the reconnaissance of the infantry brigades. BRDM-2M for these purposes exceeds it in all respects. And on weapons and security and patency.
Nothing but banal lobbying and drank can not assume
Scary Cubanoid
Just any native plant should be more important than the rest of the world combined, because it is native and it brings money to the country. And we do not need allies, we need those whom we can use to our advantage. Were fed up with the "allies" for the times of the USSR. They will not honestly give us technology, they will either try to take a lot of money for them that is not comparable with the goods, or they will tie us to themselves.
And it is precisely because we have these tugriks. Fuck us, for example, at the Department of Radiophysics, 60-70x equipment and employees receive salary as couriers, right? Or is that why we have such bidding for HPV? Or maybe we are betting on the purchase of new aircraft and on modernizing the old ones, and MiG and Su aircraft plants for ~ 60% produce everything for export?
On the rest of the points already answered similar questions.
Do you seriously think that, say, the fate of GAZ is more important for us than relations with France? Are you serious?
Here, for example, Hitler's Germany in 1941 sets a condition: buy trucks from us (that is, turn off the oxygen to GAZ) and be friends! Even if it delayed the war for several months - to hell with it with GAZ !!! By the way, quite realistic scenario in the current realities of the political lobby.
Tugriks in the gold reserves - namely Tugriks. Do not rubles. If you, while reading the GA for a long time, have not yet understood why they cannot be spent domestically - I am not surprised by your ridiculous RFP at the institute.
But, even at a simple, homely level: spend - d ... but the question! It’s much harder to spend with maximum efficiency!
BlackShark
Well, in order to jerk the box of explosives on the road, the mind does not need much. I have repeatedly written about it here. Just put the PTM on the lining of the box and that's it! But to dig and mask, yes, you need to try differently.
You also need to have this very TNT in quantities like "like a fool wrappers" ... and take it on donkeys or there even as far as the place of the bookmark. And what dushmans could do, the “Czechs” in the current, for example, state — are no longer in power. Mina something else somehow, but the boxes even self-made ammonal scatter ....
What is already a plus, if this opponent is forced.
Here is a discussion turned out.
Many letters, but in detail and from various aspects.
- http://onolitegi.ru"rel =" nofollow ">http://onolitegi.ru
Information