Military Review

Mortar - self-propelled gun ...

63
Some time ago, a material about a Swedish self-propelled mortar appeared on the VO pages. What is история this species weapons and, most importantly, what are its prospects? What original technical solutions were offered by designers of self-propelled mortars? This is what the story is about now.


Mortar - self-propelled gun ...

Carden-Lloyd wedge with a mortar as the main weapon.

It will be necessary to start with the fact that both the classic Stokes mortar and the first mobile mortars first appeared in the British. On the tanks "Tedpol tail" ("Tadpole Tail") heavy English mortar of 9,45 inches (in fact, it is a copy of the French 240-mm mortar Dumézil-Batignol, but loaded from the muzzle) was installed on the platform between the rear parts of the elongated tracks and with the same the area he shot. The British, with their characteristic English humor, called the shell to it "The Flying Pig", and then the name "stuck" to the mortar itself. The maximum range of the shot was 2300 m with a barrel length of 130 cm for the Mk.I sample and 175 cm for the Mk. II. Vertical guidance angles from + 45 ° to + 75 °. The Mark I weighed 680 kg, while the Mark II weighed 820 kg. The mortar was served by a crew of 9 people. But on the tank it was reduced to 4. Since the target in front of the tank was not visible to him, the commander of the tank commanded the crew, indicating the distance to shoot, for which a special table was attached in front of him on the armor plate. It is clear that the “flying pig” could not wait for accurate shots at the target, but the powerful explosion had a strong psychological effect on the enemy. But still, the British abandoned this weapon, considering it not very effective.


3-inch mortar on the chassis "Braine-Carrier."

In the 20s, they also launched a second run, setting up a Stokes 76-mm mortar on the “Cardin-Lloyd” wedge. True, it was released such mortars all 18. In them, the mortar was installed on the rotary gun carriage, in the place of the machine gun, it was charged manually, then it was aimed at the target and only then the shot was fired. This scheme negated the main advantage of the mortar - its rate of fire, reaching the Stokes mortars to 30 rounds per minute. But, on the other hand, this mortar had dignity. His shell fell on the enemy from above!


Experienced 9,75-inch American (248-mm) mortar on the chassis of the M7 ACS.

During the Second World War, the Germans, having acquired a mass of tracked trophy equipment, decided to use it not so much as intended, but as a base for the most extensive experiments in the field of weapons. Flame-throwers were mounted on the French tank chassis, guns and howitzers were installed, and installations for launching missiles were installed. One of the directions was the creation on the basis of both captured machines and their own, self-propelled mortars. Their own, as a rule, had the traditional layout of the mortar in the combat compartment of the BTR, from which the roof was removed. Here, the rate of fire did not decrease, and mobility did not decrease, and besides, the security of the calculation increased many times.


German self-propelled mortar on the chassis of the BdR Sdkfz250.

But the Germans tried to create the first self-propelled mortar fire based on the captured chassis. There were modifications with sixteen, and even with twenty trunks. In both cases, French 81-mm Brandt mortars with a barrel length 13,8 caliber were used, firing both fragmentation and smoke mines weighing 3,3 kg at a distance of 3030 m, explosive mines at 6,5 kg with explosive charge of about 1,5 kg at a distance 1120 m According to its data, this mortar was very close to the Soviet 82-mm mortar. But the self-propelled mortar was distinguished by the presence of a rotary gun carriage and the ability to fire at 360 degrees. Elevation angles were common for mortars - 40 ... 90 degrees.


German self-propelled mortar on the chassis of the BTR "Somau".

The Soma MCL, developed in 1933, as an artillery tractor for the 155-mm gun, was used as a chassis. The length of the machine was 5,5 m, height 2,44 m, wheel track 1,7 m, caterpillar 1,6 m.

The weight of the MCL was 9 t, the load capacity of the 1,5 t, the power of the four-cylinder petrol engine 85 hp. Its maximum speed on the highway left 32 km / h, and with a trailer for ammunition - 15 ... 18 km / h.


Mortar for self-defense on the chassis of an experienced machine T6E1 based on the tank М24.

The trunks were mounted on a carriage and a swivel base, had guidance mechanisms and a remote drive for firing mechanisms. The calculation charged the mines for the barrels, after which the car went to the position and ... fired either at a high rate of fire, bringing down all its 16-20 mines to the enemy in a matter of seconds, or, on the contrary, let them out one by one, with careful adjustment of each shot. For obvious reasons, the main of which was slow loading, this system did not take root after the war.


Self-propelled mortar based on the BTR M113 - M125.

Americans, for example, and not only they made self-propelled mortars based on their most massive BTR M-113. A retractable roof was built on it, that is, it differed from German similar cars only in a fully tracked chassis. It turned out that it was very convenient to use the chassis of obsolete tanks for such mortars. They removed the tower from them, then mounted something like an armored “box” on them, clamps for a mortar plate were placed on the bottom, which, by the way, made it possible to remove the mortar from the chassis and shoot it from the ground, and that was all that was needed. That is, such a modification of the combat vehicle could be built even without a developed military industry!


Soviet monstrous self-propelled mortar 2B1 "Oka". Only one thing can be said about him: small caliber! It was necessary to do at least 508-mm and show in action to foreign military attaches and journalists at one of the sites! That would be the best PR of all times and peoples, but 420-mm also caused a stir!

Later, many attempts were made to create an effective self-propelled mortar with the location of weapons in the turret, and to increase the rate of fire of the mortars, two were installed at once. The Americans also went down this path and created an experienced mortar on the M113 chassis, but ... it turned out that the car was too big, too noticeable, and had no real advantages over the crazy version.


Israeli 160-mm self-propelled mortar on the chassis of the Sherman tank. Fort Latrun.

The main problem of a mortar is in the features of its design. So, if it charges from the barrel, then this is a high rate of fire, which is unattainable if a similar mortar is placed in the tower. If, on the contrary, it charges from the breech, like, for example, our 240-mm Tulip, then this is a tremendous destructive power, but ... low rate of fire! That is, in one case we win, losing in the other, and vice versa - in the opposite case. How to combine a horse and a quivering doe in one harness? There are a lot of offers here. There are a lot of curiosities among them. For example, arrange a self-propelled mortar with large-caliber trunks in the back of a KAMAZ vehicle! Book a cabin and ... use it as a volley fire system at relatively short distances.


Mortar "Tulip" - a powerful weapon in all respects!

Now more and more battles are fought in cities and on the roads where concrete roadblocks are established. The distance to them is quite easy to determine. So we put such a car at a pre-calibrated distance, which, incidentally, does not cause any special suspicions, and ... produce a volley on the target. If a checkpoint is not destroyed, it will be suppressed anyway, after which the capture group will be able to capture it quickly and without loss.


Mortar on the chassis of the combat vehicle "Wiesel".


The device mortar on the chassis of the machine "Wiesel".

There are quite exotic projects, one of which is shown in our figure. Tower mortar, with an octahedral tower of complex configuration. It houses four blocks of 16 short barrels, in which there are 72 ready-to-use mines of caliber 81-82-mm. On the base of the tower, one block of long shafts is movably fixed with a crane system for regulating gas pressure. Blocks of short barrels, rotating together with the tower, are alternately combined with a block of long barrels. When this occurs, the loading: all the mines from the short barrels immediately fall into the long ones. The tower at the same time can rotate in all directions, since the block of long trunks is fixed in any position, and its elevation angle is always the same, as well as that of short trunks.


Finnish AMOS-4.

Then, a fully equipped block is aimed along with the turret at the target, the firing range is set with the help of a crane system, the armored cover of the blocks is opened and shots are fired either with a high rate or with a single fire. Such a device allows you to make 72 shots at a high rate, give four volleys of 16 mines each, or shoot single mines for quite a long time. The original system, is not it? However, one thing is to invent and patent it, and quite another - to achieve that the idea embodied in the metal!


A mortar with four blocks of barrels and 72 mines in a rotating turret (draft). Fig. A. Shepsa.
Author:
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  1. Amurets
    Amurets 18 January 2017 05: 24
    +6
    Thank! An interesting review. Well, the fact that the Germans tried to maximize the use of trophies for the needs of their army was written more than once, in various sources.
  2. corporal
    corporal 18 January 2017 05: 38
    +6
    The author plus for the effort, but somehow messed up
    1. Cat
      Cat 18 January 2017 18: 49
      +2
      Quote: V.O. Shpakovsky
      For obvious reasons, the main of which was slow loading, this system did not take root after the war.

      But there were attempts to revive it! For example, the Austrian experienced four-barreled mortar SM-4.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 14 May 2017 21: 37
        0
        We need to find a way to somehow use this whole multi-ton machine as a base plate.
  3. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 18 January 2017 07: 15
    +3
    In some photos, you can immediately see-Size matters. I saw our large mortars in the Museum of the Armed Forces in Moscow .. Compared with it, the Malka-Gaz-24 gun!
  4. kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 18 January 2017 07: 59
    +4
    It would not hurt to include Vienna on the list, even with a stretch, but how development will work. And so we have automatic and MLRS of course very addicted.
  5. faiver
    faiver 18 January 2017 08: 00
    +3
    To be honest, I don’t understand the idea of ​​sticking a light mortar into lightly armored vehicles - why? the mortar’s destiny is shooting from closed positions, it’s easier to mount it on a motorcycle chassis for mobility, or to carry it in a pickup truck, and leaving any armored car with a mortar is now that 50let back on the battlefield makes it an easy target for a grenade launcher, heavy machine gun or artillery ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 January 2017 10: 41
      +4
      Quote: faiver
      To be honest, I don’t understand the idea of ​​sticking a light mortar into lightly armored vehicles - why?

      The main enemy for the mortar is the enemy artillery. And these are fragments.

      You can put them on motorcycle chassis or pickups, but they will not be protected at all. Here, even with portable / portable / towed mortars, the advantage appears - they are even easier to bury.

      Quote: faiver
      and the departure of any armored car with a mortar that now that 50 years ago on the battlefield makes it an easy target for a grenade launcher, heavy machine gun or artillery ...

      E .... And for a mortar on a motorcycle, even a grenade launcher is a lot, will automatic fire be enough?
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 18 January 2017 12: 09
        +1
        in the states of the mechanized corps before the war, part of the motorcycles were equipped with mortars. But then they refused it. Apparently, the disadvantages outweighed the advantages.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 January 2017 12: 34
          +6
          Quote: Mikado
          But then they refused it.

          Is not a fact...
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 18 January 2017 12: 38
            +3
            Thanks for the photo. Means, mortars on motorcycles left the army in connection with the abandonment of motorcycle parts after the war ..
          2. faiver
            faiver 18 January 2017 16: 26
            +2
            in my opinion the most optimal option in the photo ....
          3. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 19 January 2017 07: 12
            +3
            A mortar platoon on motorcycles has a very high mobility. Plus, to hide such equipment from the eyes of the enemy as a motorcycle is much easier than equipment of more serious sizes.
            This platoon can quickly deliver an artillery strike and change its artillery position just as quickly, avoiding a retaliatory strike.
            And who doesn’t like the idea of ​​placing 82-mm mortars on light moto or automotive vehicles, try the mortar and BC to move just as quickly on foot. And I'll see how you do it. laughing

            The tactics of action of such light and highly mobile units: I came, saw, inherited and quickly disappeared. Not yet begun. laughing
      2. faiver
        faiver 18 January 2017 16: 20
        +2
        mortar with a motorcycle on the battlefield what did you forget? firing from closed positions
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 January 2017 18: 02
          +1
          And what about the armored car with a mortar that forgot? Shooting from closed positions.

          By the way, they are not so "closed" ... The mortars have too little firing range and the "torch" is too large. In the Second World War, to destroy enemy mortars, it was often sufficient to have a plumb line and a stopwatch.
      3. faiver
        faiver 18 January 2017 16: 25
        +1
        how many times more expensive than a mortar is an armored platform under it? absolutely irrational decision ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 January 2017 18: 03
          +2
          Mortar men, especially trained ones, also cost money. Moreover, very, very large.
      4. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 19 January 2017 07: 02
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        You can put them on motorcycle chassis or pickups, but they will not be protected at all. Here, even with portable / portable / towed mortars, the advantage appears - they are even easier to bury.


        But self-propelled mortars mounted on moto and light automotive vehicles have one indisputable advantage compared to their heavier armored counterparts and lighter portable options - their own high mobility and transportability. Plus, the cost of such equipment is much lower. And this means it can be delivered to the troops in large quantities. If necessary, of course.
        And as for protection, I will say this: Field fortification - to the rescue! wink
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 19 January 2017 09: 37
          +3
          Quote: wanderer_032
          its own high mobility

          Mobility? On the battlefield, the mortar on a pickup or motorcycle is much less mobile compared to tracked self-propelled and especially portable.
          In addition, the dead do not really need mobility


          Quote: wanderer_032
          Plus, the cost of such equipment is much lower. And this means it can be delivered to the troops in large quantities. If necessary, of course.

          Et yes. But mortars do not breed by budding.

          Quote: wanderer_032
          And as for protection, I will say this: Field fortification - to the rescue!

          Time. How much does a mortar crew need on a motorcycle to dig a trench?
          1. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 19 January 2017 15: 22
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            On the battlefield, the mortar on a pickup or motorcycle is much less mobile compared to tracked self-propelled and especially portable.


            What is your evidence? Facts, only facts.

            Quote: Spade
            Et yes. But mortars do not breed by budding.


            Do not breed - a fact.

            Quote: Spade
            Time. How much does a mortar crew need on a motorcycle to dig a trench?


            And how long does it take to dig a self-propelled mortar on an armored tracked or wheeled chassis? Anything more than digging in the same motorcycle / ATV / snowmobile or army jeep. wink
            In addition, in addition to digging, there are other ways of sheltering equipment and people. Somehow - the use of natural shelters on the ground, for example. Because on planet Earth, perfectly flat terrain is extremely rare. wink In such natural shelters, sheltering light and small-sized equipment is much simpler than more overall and heavy. Fact.
  6. Professor
    Professor 18 January 2017 08: 01
    +2
    Soviet monstrous self-propelled mortar 2B1 "Oka". Only one thing can be said about him: small caliber! It was necessary to do at least 508-mm and show in action to foreign military attaches and journalists at one of the sites! That would be the best PR of all times and peoples, but 420-mm also caused a stir!

    But didn’t that this non-taxing mortar in the world remained a dummy for intimidation of nervous women? Nothing that his ammunition was only one mine? Nothing that when shooting his chassis just fell apart? Such a one-time mortar. However, it’s not enough for us. Give us a 508-mm to let dust in our eyes. How much it will cost us not interested. Hooray comrades !!!
    https://topwar.ru/35291-samohodnyy-minomet-2b1-ok
    a.html
    1. kugelblitz
      kugelblitz 18 January 2017 10: 09
      +3
      Then there was no compact nuclear munition, however, by that time tactical unguided missiles had appeared.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 January 2017 10: 44
      +2
      Quote: Professor
      But didn’t that this non-taxing mortar in the world remained a dummy for intimidating the faint-hearted ladies?

      But nothing that this mortar is not the only one in the review that did not go into the series?
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 January 2017 11: 51
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      Nothing that his ammunition was only one mine?

      Heh heh heh ... dear Professor, can you remind me how many shells are included in the ammunition of the American 175-mm self-propelled gun M107, which the AOI loved so much? wink
    4. gladcu2
      gladcu2 18 January 2017 14: 15
      0
      Professor

      This is not for letting dust into your eyes, but for letting liquids into your pants.

      The difference is not obvious.

      And the total secrecy of everything from everything in the USSR, to help.
    5. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 18 January 2017 14: 42
      +1
      Professor, well, then you have to make adjustments for the year of graduation, and that our Jewish physicists were nuclear scientists, they still couldn’t put a mine in the caliber below 200mm ... But after a 5-7 year old, they could even have a nuclear shell for a tolpan and 152mm. We can import.
  7. n0001
    n0001 18 January 2017 08: 34
    +2

    KSW RAK tests
  8. kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 18 January 2017 10: 16
    +1
    By the way, the Swedes still have such a crack.

  9. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 January 2017 11: 05
    +4
    Multi-Barrel-1

    Soviet experienced quadruple 120 mm self-propelled mortar. Development of the Artillery Academy. Dzerzhinsky 1943. They call it "Leningrad", but in fact the academy was in evacuation in Samarkand at that time.

    TsAMO RF, 38 Foundation, 11369 inventory, case # 94
  10. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 January 2017 11: 14
    +3
    Multi-Barrel-2

    Austrian experienced four-barreled NORICUM SM-4

    There were versions on the car and on MT-LB
  11. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 January 2017 11: 27
    +5
    German self-propelled mortar on the chassis of the BTR "Somau".
    The Soma MCL, developed in 1933, as an artillery tractor for the 155-mm gun, was used as a chassis. The length of the machine was 5,5 m, height 2,44 m, wheel track 1,7 m, caterpillar 1,6 m.

    But this non-comrade for this review is the "left passenger". 8)))

    This is not a mortar, this is the MLRS.
    She fired 80-mm turbojet shells. Ignition is electricity.
    1. Aviagr
      Aviagr 18 January 2017 12: 31
      0
      Did you want to drag her to the 5 floor instead of my 40 barrel mine rocket launcher on the Trailer? laughing
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 January 2017 13: 40
        +2
        Turbojet shells are good in that they can be launched even with such simple guides:

        I think one "shkolopendra" will cost like a couple of hundreds of such "installations"

        And you can do without guides at all.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 January 2017 13: 44
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          And you can do without guides at all.

          1. acrshooter
            acrshooter 19 January 2017 08: 40
            +3
            Earth, sapper blade and ruler ...
            0:16 - 1:07
            Sincerely, Arthur
            1. Aviagr
              Aviagr 19 January 2017 09: 09
              0
              Exactly! And if the shells are NOT DRAGGED manually, but ROLLED on a cart that replaces those shell boxes that are shown at the beginning (by the way, how they were dragged uphill - why weren’t they shown)? laughing
              And the pickup mechanism can be installed either manually or electrically (for remote radio command control).
              Given the availability of 3D maps of the area, a good ZhPS / Glonass / Baidu signal, it will be a pleasure to shoot such devices ... True, the rubber Nona will grieve ... wassat
        2. Aviagr
          Aviagr 18 January 2017 14: 51
          +1
          The memory is short - but what can you write down on a poppy seed? :
          I mentioned the refinement of conventional 82-mm mines, in which instead of a shank a C-8 rocket engine is screwed with a reduced amount of fuel (the length is limited by the dimensions of the Trailer) - here we get an 40-barrel mine-rocket launcher, like the ones above ... laughing
          Moreover, it itself is towed and immediately shoots (after aiming); you can make an ambush bookmark - shoot at a radio signal, etc. I get rid of missile / mine crates or attach wheels to them - speaking another language! And this 1 of 100 the possibilities of using the trailer !!!!!!!!
          Scolopendras - how 2-oh from 100 option ...
          Transportation of the wounded - AFTER the removal of the empty mortar and mortar block - 3-s... ALL of them enumerates me just ...
          I still thought that Lopatov a little smarter - you upset me more and more ... recourse
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 January 2017 16: 13
            +2
            Quote: Aviagr
            I mentioned about the refinement of the usual 82-mm mines, in which instead of a shank a rocket engine from C-8 is screwed with a reduced amount of fuel

            Charming. Efficiency like a 82-mm mine, but much more expensive. About once every 50 8))) Can you, dear, abandon the Americans? Even their huge budget will not pull your worthless ideas ...
            1. Aviagr
              Aviagr 18 January 2017 18: 24
              0
              Quote: Spade
              but much more expensive. About once every 50

              Well, I’d paint - what’s there 50 times more expensive - I have a calculation of the details of the mine itself (we conduct weekly tests), the rocket engine is on Fusion, the adapter for the mine itself is 200 rubles in extras ... It remains only MARASMUS Lopatova - but for him 49 mortar mines - will be a little expensive ... :-)
              Come on, son, sell your fabrications cheaper ... hi
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 January 2017 19: 06
                +5
                Mines are the cheapest of the art. ammunition. Rocket projectiles are the most expensive. The reason is such "little things" as a rocket engine. Which, among other things, will be in the "mine plus RD" version is very, very expensive than usual for aviation. Its powder checker will have to have greater strength, as it will have to withstand "shock" loads during movement. If not, one crack, a burnt out hull and a rocket tumbling over its own ... Which, accordingly, is unacceptable.

                These are direct costs, but there are indirect ones.
                The first is dispersal. "Mine with a motor" by default will have it large, which will lead to the need for more ammunition when hitting the same target.
                The second is the active section of the trajectory. Here, someone simply does not have enough knowledge. This kind of "Mina with a motor" will behave like a Grad rocket. That is, on OUT, deviate in the direction from which the wind is blowing, and on the passive one, behave like a classic projectile, deviating where the wind is blowing.
                That is, every forty-barreled rocket mortar without any analogue in the world will require the presence of a very, very expensive radar for determining wind parameters. After all, there will be no one to run with the good old wind rush there.

                So it’s quite possible that 50 times is still modest.
                ================
                In general, it is time to start learning materiel, instead of accusing others of "insanity". Inventing rocket launchers and not knowing anything about the outer ballistics of rockets is pretty weird.
                1. Aviagr
                  Aviagr 18 January 2017 20: 10
                  +1
                  Shovels, shut up! - Do not destroy the last good impression of yourself! angry
                  Which city? What withdrawal? - There is a range of 500-1000m in total! Checkers are short - because they are hard, they burn for a split second. The spread is necessary so that everything does not fall to one point - it is better with an interval of meters in 20 - the area of ​​damage is larger.
                  As an ambush point for unfolding troops or a herd of barmaleys running to Palmyra - and NO ONE needs to sit near the robotic Trailer: either the defeat area is adjusted in advance, or the rotation mechanism on electric motors by radio signal - yes, it will be more expensive, but NO LOSS! What is especially important for Syria, where it is already perishing do not want. This is a penny - compared with that, that already TAKE IN THIS!
                  The shot Trailer can be thrown out - and shell boxes are thrown away. A volley of 4-5 Mortar Trailers (160 ... 200 min) will cool any hotheads. And point and expensive goals - if you please, more expensive Skolopendras: and again there are no people nearby!
                  Or how in Yemen the Houthis shell the "coalition" camps - as well as your "sad experience" - again, you can adjust my Trailer-mortar, aim, set a delay (half a kopeck on Krona), calmly leave - and in two hours the whole camp will cover 40 min!
                  The trailer is good for its UNIVERSALITY: if you want - mines, if you want - Scolopendra, you need - drag ATGMs, MANPADS and other weapons. And adding "robotization" is now no longer difficult ...
                  A reactive (modified) mine will only be twice as expensive as an ordinary mine ... hi
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 January 2017 22: 44
                    +4
                    Quote: Aviagr
                    Shovels, shut up! - Do not destroy the last good impression of yourself!
                    Which city? What withdrawal? - There is a range of 500-1000m in total!

                    That is, this super miracle also has a maximum range of just a kilometer, two times less than that of the AGS ???
                    N-yes ... But isn’t it cheaper to throw gold bars into the enemy? More and more fun ...
                    Quote: Aviagr
                    Mortar trailer, hover, set a delay (half a dime on Kron), calmly leave

                    I would like to look at the gifted, secretly creeping from the forty-barrel launcher a kilometer to the enemy .... 8))))))))))))))))))))))))) In conditions of modern saturation of troops intelligence tools. 8)))))))))))))))) Yes, and apparently, one tactical genius decided to pull it out for direct fire ... Well ....
                    I see, here not only miracle trailers are planned for one-time use, but also the one who uses them ...
                    1. Aviagr
                      Aviagr 19 January 2017 09: 26
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      the ultimate range is only a kilometer, half that of the AGS

                      and ten times greater power and with the absence of a number of people (calculation) - yes, now this paradigm - I don’t need a long range for the EFFECTIVE destruction of the enemy, which you won’t do with the AGS at all.
                      Quote: Spade
                      And isn’t it cheaper than to throw gold bars into the enemy?

                      Are you talking about Caliber, Su-24 / 34, Mi-35, MiG-29K, T-90 and the older junk in Syria? - So they threw it, but there’s no sense .. Maybe it's better than mine CHEAPERbut bringing a VICTORY?
                      Quote: Spade
                      her on direct fire one tactical genius decided to pull out.

                      Mortar - direct fire? Shovels, you upset me more and more ...
                      A kilometer - and even less - the distance of snipers: people reach and cause damage. And here - you don’t even need to substitute (in the sense of seeing the enemy): dragged the trailer with mines, guided (or remotely), crawled away - after three to four hours of delay (or by radio command) - volley at: checkpoint, bridge, intersection roads with BT column, camp, warehouses, etc. And note - at the same time, a person does not REQUIRE KILLING, as in the case of Non, AGS, mopeds with cornflowers and other crap ...
                      Well, the barrage fire - of course: they would have easily defended Palmyra (in conjunction with its other mosquito weapons).
                      Nobody needs your stone axes ... hi
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 19 January 2017 10: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Aviagr
                        and ten times more power and with the absence of a number of people (calculation) - yes, now such a paradigm - I don’t need a long range for the EFFECTIVE destruction of the enemy, which you won’t do with the AGS at all.

                        That is, those who will try to drag this bandura a kilometer away from the enemy are not people, consumables?
                        I’m afraid that the same ACS can easily cope with such a threat.


                        Quote: Aviagr
                        Mortar - direct fire? Shovels, you upset me more and more ...

                        Materiel! Materiel !! Materiel !!!
                        "Cornflower", "Nona", "Vienna", "Hosta", "NEMO", "AMOS" are mortars that fully fire with direct fire. The rest use a half-line, when directional guidance is visual, the elevation angle from the shooting tables.

                        Quote: Aviagr
                        A kilometer - and even less - the distance of snipers: people reach and cause damage.

                        N-yes ... That is, the movement of the sniper and the movement of the forty-barrel bandura are similar? Cool....
  12. Mikado
    Mikado 18 January 2017 11: 29
    +1
    As a chassis, the Somua MCL was used.

    rare frame with a rare car. There were 2 models of such tractors in the French army - Somois and some other. It is noteworthy that the Germans began to sheathe their armor and make them look like their armored personnel carriers. Their performance characteristics are interesting, how many cars have been converted, how efficiently and on which front they were used.
  13. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 January 2017 12: 27
    +4
    Multi-barrel-3

    Apparently, inspired by the Austrian "multi-barrel" they created their own in Taiwan. 120 mm double-barreled XT-86
  14. demiurg
    demiurg 18 January 2017 15: 30
    0
    Why not say a word about Cornflowers on MTLB?
    And by the way, is the same Hosta formally a mortar?

    The professor appeared as if from a link, some kind of evil.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 January 2017 16: 13
      +3
      Quote: demiurg
      Why not say a word about Cornflowers on MTLB?

      Military homemade. Not always correctly executed.
  15. marshes
    marshes 18 January 2017 18: 19
    0
    To suffer a little and 2C12 will appear in Kazakhstan with anti-recoil devices and with SLA. And does not fall under the ban from Dimasik, although FIG knows him.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 January 2017 19: 08
      0
      Do you have
      1. marshes
        marshes 18 January 2017 19: 13
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Do you have

        There is that is, but without anti-skid, 120 with a full charge is great deforms MTLB bottom.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 January 2017 20: 06
          0
          Quote: marshes
          There is that is, but without anti-skid, 120 with a full charge is great deforms MTLB bottom.

          Everything is there. Including anti-recoil.
          Well, about the deformation ... Apparently someone shot at charges that did not match those given during the design of the TTZ. For example, in the long-range.
          1. marshes
            marshes 18 January 2017 20: 23
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Everything is there. Including anti-recoil.

            I didn’t understand much, that Aybat was without anti-recoil, with a full charge he deformed the bed and the bottom, for which the MSA from Soltan which entered seemed to be ELBIT.
            Quote: Spade
            Well, about the deformation ... Apparently someone shot at charges that did not match those given during the design of the TTZ. For example, in the long-range.

            There was just such a condition, after the firing, the mortar barrel did not rotate on the frame. After the "debriefing", they planted ours on the other side.
            Now Kazakhstan-Indo-Israeli-development. For cars, Barys, Arlan, BMP-1,2 MTLB, T-72 and the Urals and Kamaz.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 18 January 2017 22: 46
              0
              Quote: marshes
              I didn’t understand much, that Aybat was without anti-recoil

              The very first (and only) pictures on the Web. Mortar with recoil.
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 18 January 2017 19: 01
    +3
    It's time to make a mortar on a heavy tank chassis, with a tank turret,
    all DZ and frills. To be able to work in the city normally. Gun
    in the city, little is required, it’s more effective to throw mines through the houses to the neighboring
    the street. Paired with a regular tank.
    1. marshes
      marshes 18 January 2017 19: 15
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      It's time to make a mortar on a heavy tank chassis, with a tank turret,

      Here are Lopatov, ABT and I laughing agree on this, the installation of a 120 mm mortar gun from Vienna or Nona on the chassis of the T-72,80,90 tank. smile
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 19 January 2017 13: 42
        0
        You can transfer the Tulip to the tank chassis with the turret a la MSTa-S
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 January 2017 20: 07
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      It's time to make a mortar on a heavy tank chassis


      laughing
      1. faiver
        faiver 20 January 2017 23: 34
        0
        reminds qxNUMX smile
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 19 January 2017 13: 41
      0
      And an assault gun would have worked well - with direct fire ... just choose the right caliber. Or a 120mm gun from "Vienna" can be inserted into the turret or something larger, but then direct fire will not work.
  17. Aviagr
    Aviagr 19 January 2017 11: 39
    0
    Lopatov,
    Quote: Spade
    That is, those who will try to drag this bandura a kilometer away from the enemy are not people, consumables?
    I’m afraid that the same ACS can easily cope with such a threat.

    Cope - if will see, and to see (the Soboliatnik - in the photo above) - he needs to RADIATE - who whom FIRST to see?
    And already for the hundredth (or maybe the thousandth) time I say: both Scolopendra and this 40-barrel mortar will shoot along a ballistic curve from behind shelters and folds of terrain - there will be questions in Kazakhstan, and in other parts of the world (we take existing conflicts ) - all these "elements of secrecy" are enough everywhere. And how does a sniper pulling the Trailer by the rope (you can also crawl) differ from just a sniper?
    And the conclusion to direct fire - this is just the road DIRECTLY to the grave: if you see the enemy, then he will also you. The sect "and it’s for us" again fucked up ...
    Okay, so I understand that the cerebral dome has dried up and does not perceive the reality of being, there are already enough explanations for those who follow the dispute (only Syria will fix the "shovels" - however, they themselves do not go there) ... laughing
    We went to the news about the KAZ Arena to "butt" - there a man with a similar pea expressed a sacramental thought:
    it’s no longer possible - the tanks are beating, and they are burning. ”but added - Conflicts in the Middle East showed that, firstly, without tanks - nowherewithout specifying, but where with tanks: WHERE?! wassat
    That is, the principle of "hedgehogs eating cactus", but crying and requiring budget money, benefits, awards and other - there is a place to be. hi
  18. goblin xnumx
    goblin xnumx 21 January 2017 23: 57
    0
    I’m greeting, interesting, but there is a question since mortars were assembled here, I noticed that metal covers on glass jars have a size of 82 mm — a coincidence? —something is doubtful — in the USSR such coincidences were often not accidental — by chance they have nothing to do with a 82 mm mortar?
  19. hezbola
    hezbola 26 January 2017 05: 48
    0
    Comrades and gentlemen, is it not easier to invent a mine corrected for tank barrels and teach her to shoot accurately by adding a little electronics to the tank? the tank has better protection, better cross-country ability, no separate mortar fleet and self-propelled guns should be kept, the tank will be more universal on a TVD. of the minuses is that the tank does not float and does not jump from il76 so that let it be a mine for an octopus but for an octopus with improved protection for dz and kaz arena M or afghanit, 3D radar for mortar fire, with a detector optics kk sniper and ptrk, and some minimum air defense in the form of a pair of MANPADS or shell missiles.