Canceled one of Serdyukov reforms

With reference to military sources newspaper "News" reports that on the combat and auxiliary units (including submarines) of the Russian Navy there will be deputy commanders for work with personnel (a lock on the radar). State Secretary - Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov noted that on ships, auxiliary vessels and submarines it is important to work to maintain the psychological climate of the personnel and military discipline.

We are talking about the introduction of the appropriate position on ships with military personnel of the number of people from 100.

The possibility of the return of "political leaders" (actually the designation of the deputy commander for work with personnel), which has been generally accepted since Soviet times, or of educational officers, is due to the fact that the number of long trips and their duration navy lately has grown significantly. Moreover, cases of psychologically negative conditions in individual sailors are not uncommon, which, as it turns out, are not always ready for months-long sea crossings and combat patrols on distant shores.

Recall that the posts of deputy commanders of the ships for work with personnel were abolished at Anatolia Serdyukov. Instead of them, the so-called “assistant commanders” appeared with vague duties. Those who were previously called officers-tutors, remained "on land", namely in the headquarters of the squadrons and divisions. Participation in the combat training of the crews of ships, auxiliary vessels and submarines, these people no longer took.

It turns out that the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation is on the path of canceling yet another "strange" reform of Serdyuk.

Comments

[Eugene-Eugene]

Zamkompomorda

[Orel]

Quote: Eugene-Eugene

Zamkompomorda

It is better for experienced army team to comment. This position is needed today in general.

[Bath]

Doubtful position due to lack of official ideology

[Nick]

Quote: Bath

Doubtful position due to lack of official ideology

It's not about ideology. The military has one ideology - to defend their homeland. And someone must ensure a favorable psychological climate in the military collective, someone must resolve conflict or difficult life situations in the collective.

[kapitan92]

Quote: Nick

Quote: Bath

Doubtful position due to lack of official ideology

It's not about ideology. The military has one ideology - to defend their homeland. And someone must ensure a favorable psychological climate in the military collective, someone must resolve conflict or difficult life situations in the collective.

I think a lot depends on the staff, who will be called the assistant. com on educational work or simply "political officers", given the educational and upbringing level of our soldiers, the frank weakness of the sergeant staff.
Commissars in units — a phenomenon in the world that is quite common and not invented in Russia. The first appeared back in the XNUMXth century in the armies of the Italian republics. Those armies were formed from mercenaries, and the commissars in them controlled the loyalty of the troops and their commanders. And subsequently this post more than once became relevant, especially during revolutions or civil wars - there were commissars in the French army after the French Revolution, in the American during the war of independence.

In Russia, after the October Revolution of 1917, commissars also monitored the loyalty of commanders, most of them officers of the tsarist army, often forcibly mobilized, and also conducted political work and participated in administrative and economic management. On the one hand, the new government needed guarantees that its army would not turn bayonets against itself. On the other hand, the actual diarchy in parts sometimes came sideways: commissars with enormous rights, usually without a special military education, simply prevented commanders from properly managing the units.
Cadres decided and decide everything! A competent selection of people with appropriate education, with clear job descriptions and powers for our army will not hurt, at least at this stage of its formation and development. (IMHO)

[infantry76]

I completely agree! And no matter what he is called, this officer: commissioner, political instructor, political officer, pom. on the radar, deputy. on BP or something else, the main thing is that he be competent in every way a professional. And we have an ideology - TO PROTECT HOMELAND!
IMHO! I have the honor!

[Sergey F]

Do not confuse the functions of commissars and the functions of political leaders of the Soviet era!
I myself was a commander for 10 years, and I know for sure that this post is not idle in our time!
I never admired the political politicians, there were reasons, but one order of the commander is not enough to defend the Motherland! The role of the political officer is to make it so that "defend the Motherland" becomes a spiritual impulse, an emotional pain of every soldier, sailor!

[gladcu2]

Sergey F

I apologize for my opinion.

No political officer will put in your emotional impulses.
The reason is that messing with you is just too lazy. Not because you're bad or a lazy politician. It’s just that when they don’t strain in the service, then nobody will strain.

Based on the foregoing, the conclusion suggests itself.

Commander, must be normal. And for a normal commander, sergeants work normally. And sergeants are working fine if the charter is not violated.

And how does the political officer fit into this scheme?

[Sergey F]

Do you know the saying: man is not fed with bread alone?

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: gladcu2

Commander, must be normal. And for a normal commander, sergeants work normally. And sergeants are working fine if the charter is not violated.
And how does the political officer fit into this scheme?

A militia-nyan is needed for the political officer, who wants to cry in a vest and hunt, and mother is far away. How many political leaders have seen in more than 20 years - all the time professional loafers. Well, of course, they are doing something - they are looking for soldier-artists - to write slogans. Visible, there, agitation and so on .... But disassemble the flights - do not feed with bread! The main dad, mother, grandparents are not a political officer for a soldier, but a commander - from the squad leader to the battalion commander inclusive. The rest of the commanders are sitting higher, they have no time for an individual soldier, they think not in the category of "soldiers", but in the category of "subdivision." Well, that's their service. And political officers are parasites. With the same success, you can introduce a chaplain, a psychologist, a helpline, an army house of tolerance (and cho, some like prostitutes to pour out their souls!) - anyone with whom you can cry and there will be no benefit from this whining ....

[Stanislas]

Quote: Nick

The military has one ideology - to defend the homeland

Among the reds and whites there were many who defended their homeland, relying on very different ideologies.

Quote: Nick

provide a favorable psychological climate in the military team, someone must resolve conflict or difficult life situations in the team

You write as if this work is taught somewhere and there are positive examples. This is a very important task, but no one except the commander can complete it. If the commander forces the soldier to straighten up and helps him to face danger, then the psychological climate in this unit will be correct, but if he humiliates, bends, breaks soldiers and subordinates (including, naturally, the political officer), asserting himself at their expense, then the climate will be appropriate, no political officer will help. No psychologists in any organization do this. An explanation of the state's policy related to possible military conflicts is another matter. This is very necessary. A soldier must understand what threats are posed to his homeland by the policies of other states, so that at the moment of danger he is less likely to be asked the question "what are we fighting for." Yes, and for the general development of drugs, this also does not hurt: there is history, and morality, relationships.

[veteran66]

Quote: Bath

Dubious position

as a political officer (in the literal sense of the word) it may not be needed, although the political component in the country's military doctrine plays a significant role. But after all, the graduates of the institute in the diploma indicated the specialty "sociologist-psychologist", in the absence of regimental priests, it may be useful. Yes, and an extra officer in the unit will always come in handy, although it would be used to wear outfits)))

[skobars]

As a former political officer, I completely agree with veteran66, but he definitely doesn’t need it for contract units, the contractor has one problem: how to pay off the loan for the cars that they took to get in front of girls.

[Stanislas]

Quote: veteran66

graduates of the institute in the diploma indicate the specialty "sociologist-psychologist"

This is a disaster. A war historian would have been better. This one would at least say something interesting and useful, and would go to outfits no worse than psychologists. And in those same ones in the head of leapfrog, only for outfits, perhaps.

[veteran66]

Quote: Stanislav

A war historian would have been better.

it’s not the essence of what is written in the diploma, if only the professional was in his field. And the number of hours for studying history was not reduced to them.

[Stanislas]

Quote: veteran66

it’s not the essence of what is written in the diploma, if only the professional was in his field

Do you have a verified set of requirements for the professional competence of political politicians? They don't either. If there were a couple of hundred political leaders, it would be possible to research their knowledge, skills, values ​​and make such a set based on the results of their work. But they don't exist. Therefore, the program is drawn up in the usual way of undercover struggle and pushing the corporate interests of different departments. And a sociological psychologist is not a profession, but an education. Moreover, education is bad: there are so many psychologists as there are psychologists. The same applies to sociology. Through the efforts, I believe, A.N. Yakovlev, the development of the national science of society and man in the Russian Federation was frozen in due time. It is known how you can turn a person into a cat (and this part has an applied meaning), but it is not known how to make a person out of a cat (here are only hypotheses). Goblinologists can be released with equal results.

[veteran66]

Quote: Stanislav

Do you have a verified set of requirements for the professional competence of the politicians?

so for this you need to formulate a concept of their need and scope of tasks, and only then put forward a set of requirements. For selection, I would advise something, for example, to accept at the institute only those who have served in the army 2-3 years after testing for professional suitability (identifying a leader). it’s like in flight schools, no matter how you passed the exams, the most important thing is health and suitability.

Quote: Stanislav

how many psychologists - so many "psychologies". The same applies to sociology.

so you can steal any undertaking, if in our country this direction is abandoned, this does not mean that this is not necessary. One of the main subjects in the VPU after the history of the CPSU (or whatever) and the party political work was Soviet military pedagogy, that same subject.

[Stanislas]

Quote: veteran66

so you can steal any undertaking

If it starts in F, then it's easy. Everything was also in schools: the position of a psychologist was introduced without any project of a specialist's activity. That he is now helping to maintain a good psychological climate? Maybe with its help teachers and schoolchildren solve difficult life situations or achieve unprecedented results in teaching and upbringing? No, after the transition to per capita funding, they often began to be dumped like ballast, but in some schools they are kept, especially if there is some kind of "experimental program" with additional funding in order to rub glasses on the heads of education about how well and successfully the school team decides the tasks before him. He describes it all in the report, using a lot of "smart" words. But it will be more difficult to retrain them later, they will rather be asked.

[veteran66]

Quote: Stanislav

Everything was also in schools: they introduced the position of a psychologist without any project of specialist activity.

I think that the discussion of the question in the direction of "how bad it is when they do not know how" is futile, since we are breaking into open doors and talking about the same thing.

[Stanislas]

Quote: veteran66

discussion of the question in the direction of "how bad it is when they do not know how" is hopeless

I agree with this, therefore I am writing about a more suitable, nmv, educational standard for political politicians. The closest is the standard of training a military historian. It gives the opportunity to study the history of different types of troops, different weapons and equipment. If LS immerses his knowledge of materiel in history, it will domesticate the soldier both as a person and as a military specialist. And knowledge of the political situation gives an additional incentive to study and training, linking them with the current moment and a possible future situation. The soldier will receive knowledge from the political officer that he can lay the foundation of his daily patriotism. And the psychologist will "help" him to dream about p-de? Better a regimental priest.

[vmo]

It is not a matter of outfits and priests, no matter how much one wants to, but someone should competently work with personnel, by the way, contract soldiers are the same people and military men and ideologically they need to work with them so that not only loans are in my head.

[Blondy]

Better an ordinary psychoanalyst, if there is such a need

[klaus16]

For any need. Previously a political officer. Now it’s different. Someone must monitor the psychological situation in a limited space. And the point is not in ideology.

[Ml.S-nt Ivan Kuzmich]

The commander must be both the father and teacher of the sailor! And if the number is more than 100 people, let there be another Father Priest! There should be no political officers and commissars! Shoigu starts to flirt a little. And not far from the detachments!

[gladcu2]

Kuzmich

This is what the capitalists have brought to ...

Why do you need a father?
Didn't your soldiers go to school at all? Well, perhaps if life can be explained to a soldier only through the "will of God."

And the capitalist under capitalism will learn what? Marxism and Leninism?

It’s ridiculous to watch people do stupid things without understanding the essence of the problem.

[Koshak]

Quote: Orel

This position is needed today in general.

"Lock on the radar" - sounds much better than the political officer. You can rub civilians that you are a deputy commander, or even a commander, for radio location stations (systems) . In general, it is better to have special crewmen. In order to make fewer poor-minded people run around with mobile phones, everything fotkalo and dumped into the network.

[The Little Humpbacked Horse]

Quote: Orel

This position is needed today in general.

So, Jews were always like political instructors, where can they get them now, they all fled to Israel.

[Finches]

This armchair general, who knows about the army, only from the newspaper "Krasnaya Zvezda" and the program "I Serve the Motherland", and not fully understanding what the word "Motherland" means, State Secretary - Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov them under Serdyukov and dispersed, along with schools! But the "political officer" in the old fashioned way is a talent for working with people! Where can I get them? Previously, they were prepared for every type and type of troops ... Delagans!

[rasputin17]

You said it right!
But here's food for thought from my service, since 90. for 93g. in our crew of B-47 (formerly K-47), there were as many as three of them, and to be honest, they were as good as milk! The first cap 2 Peschansky is not meat, I don’t even remember the second one, so the third was given from the B-68 after the disbandment of the crew. !

[veteran66]

Quote: rasputin17

they were replaced by as many as three pieces and the sense of them was like kazla milk to be honest !!

This is because the schools were recruiting excellent students and "hairy" (the schools were prestigious, hell just do it), and this does not mean that a person is a leader. After all, a commander is a leader according to the charter, and a political officer should be a leader in essence. Here in our neighboring company there was a political officer, he came to political classes with an accordion, at the end of the school hour the company sang patriotic songs, both Saturday and holiday. But the authorities did not like such people, the best political officer was the one who had "paper" affairs in order. Therefore, he, with an accordion, sat for three terms as a political officer of the company, and the "scribes" grew uphill, like bamboo after a rain.

[Sasha_Sar]

I agree completely. For 11 years of service as an officer in the ship's personnel, I know only two political officers who did not interfere with serving, and sometimes even helped. I had a chance to serve in the transition period from socialism to capitalism. On a personal example, I can say that after the withdrawal of the political commanders in 1992 from the state, by the summer of 92 they became "assistants", and in 93 they were again the deputy commander of the ship. Under the communists, the ship with a crew of 175 was a deputy and a "Komsomolets". By 96, there were four of them: a deputy commander, a legal assistant, a psychologist, and a propagandist. How does it feel? At the same time, none of them was on duty at sea, the diploma did not allow. The question is nah .... such ballast?

[rasputin17]

Exactly!! Paperwork and inspection of young people in front of the bathhouse for bruises and abrasions which young sailors received from accidental falls on the ramps and gangways !! And the rest is a complete ballast !!

[Stanislas]

Quote: veteran66

this is because the schools recruited excellent students and "hairy"

Interestingly, and now girls are taking on these posts? On the ship then there will be no psychological conflicts, but in general the devil knows what.

[veteran66]

Quote: Stanislav

girls take on these posts? On the ship then no psychological conflicts will be

and on household soil (of a sexual nature)

[Stanislas]

Quote: veteran66

sexual nature

That's it, only they will not replace the psychological ones, but will be added to them if this happens.
PS And more (to the topic of historians or psychologists). I know those, and those, and not in the same department. There are many patriots among historians, but few among psychologists. They are predominantly liberals, and how can one become different with such a non-binding nature of "laws", methods and theories in science. I assure you, history is a much more rigorous science, and there is a mess going on there, what can we say about some others, in particular, about psychology.

[Finches]

They are all different, like the commanders, but if they are professional, then they are professional! I myself served in command posts and I know the weight of the contribution of the present political officer to combat readiness ...

[vmo]

Looks like he was driving a political commander!

[Iline]

Quote: Finches

But the "political officer" in the old fashioned way is a talent for working with people!

This talent should be possessed by the commander and, as a result, enjoy the authority and trust of his subordinates.
And how the deputies for work with the personnel conducted the propaganda in the troops (deputies for the struggle against personnel in the common people, the political leaders in the old) were voiced in the people's army humor. Not this position is needed, but to slightly correct the duties of a lawyer. He must defend the rights of subordinate personnel in front of a rude or presumptuous commander (which is not uncommon to conceal sin). rather than licking part of the commander’s body slightly lower than the back from the back. Then the relations in the team will be normal.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Iline

This talent should be possessed by the commander and, as a result, enjoy authority

The commander must have the talent to carry out combat missions.

[Iline]

And that too.

[vanek77]

I agree with you, but I want to tell the author that Serdyukov is a pawn, he followed the orders of the Supreme Commander (I will dare to say this), for which (subject to silence) he received a hero. As at one time, Poghosyan received it, who destroyed entire design schools in the Aviation Industry and forwarded to his design bureau documentation on the promising developments of these very design bureaus. So, in fact, it turns out that the commander-in-chief cancels his own orders and orders. Therefore, there will never be anyone guilty of "transformations" in the army, in Higher Military Training, for obvious reasons. They cannot plant themselves.

[Stanislas]

Quote: vanek77

So in fact it turns out

Here is cheating, vanyok77. It turns out in fact "taking the liberty to say"? Create worlds (not just "facts") with your own word? Yes you boh ... you still need to populate these worlds with locks.

[Vz.58]

On the main photo there are two "trump cards", and which of them "salutes" according to the charter?

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Vz.58

On the main photo there are two "trump cards", and which of them "salutes" according to the charter?

Those who are closer to the point of shooting, obviously, have a traumatic injury to the wrist joint or right biceps is pumped up unrealistically.

[Barbulator]

Quote: Polite Elk

On the main photo there are two "trump cards", and which of them "salutes" according to the charter?

Yes, both wrong: the palm is brought to the temple, and not the peak of the cap.

[Finches]

Where the fleet and aviation begin, discipline ends!

[the most important]

"Chudilo" in power is worse than the enemy army on the border. The enemy can at least be destroyed, but such "chiefs" cannot be easily exterminated ... And who appointed him to the post do not tell me ???

[210ox]

When will the stool in power be finally canceled?

Quote: the most important

"Chudilo" in power is worse than the enemy army on the border. The enemy can at least be destroyed, but such "chiefs" cannot be easily exterminated ... And who appointed him to the post do not tell me ???

[Svist]

Quote: the most important

And who appointed him to the post do not tell me ???

Vladimir Vladimirovich...

[Nick]

Quote: Svist

Quote: the most important

And who appointed him to the post do not tell me ???

Vladimir Vladimirovich...

The Moor did his work and he left ...

[CYBERNINJA]

Could it be easier to call a post? Here for a mile away ... it smells ...- a military psychologist .... And what? Sounds !!!

[16112014nk]

Quote: CYBERNINDJA

Here a mile away ... it smells ...- a military psychologist.

In any case, better than pop with a censer!

[CYBERNINJA]

Nuuuuuu ...... Pop with a censer is fine, but not in a submarine ...

[Penzioner]

I dare to assure that a priest with a censer will be more useful than even an intelligent political officer.

[veteran66]

Quote: PenZioner

I dare to assure that a priest with a censer will be more useful than even an intelligent political officer.

yes, if pop sensible))

[igorka357]

One might think that political officers are such excellent psychologists, the maximum they could do was read letters, and do not give them before the guard, well, say "nothing, son, hold on ... everyone is bad!" ... but there are none

[bk316]

Do not tell us there was a wonderful political officer in our training, he ran with us with the song "God Save the Tsar" and in his own words.
Because of him, I was later not expelled from the Komsomol because of him: thanks to him, my Komsomol ticket remained in Kandahar.

[veteran66]

Quote: igorka357

You might think that such psychologists are excellent

as we said: "The main task of the political officer is to penetrate a person deeply into the soul .... and there we ... are."

[Barbulator]

Quote: igorka357

Deputy politician without medical education with a bias in psychology, not a political officer ... but there are none

Psychiatrists receive medical education. And psychology is something else, although both the psychiatrist and the psychotherapist study psychology. And the deputy commander for educational work should know psychology, although in his twenties after graduating from a military university or institute it is difficult to immediately become a "connoisseur of souls"; this requires experience, experience and more experience.

[gispanec]

But do you need politicians? .... for political ?? ... will they be of benefit or as in the USSR ... ?? ...

[Bath]

We needed the needed ones in a unit in Šiauliai. The political officer served was a Russian, it’s like a lad, as in 93 they brought him out sharply, he went to serve in the Lithuanian police already in retirement, and there you stayed

[Igor V]

And in the Kaliningrad region, many political leaders became priests.

[veteran66]

Quote: Bath

was Russian like a lad as in 93 they brought it off sharply

and where did he go? They were dispersed in the 91st, they became assistant commanders for work with l / s. Neprisha-non-shake.

[cesar65]

deputy anti-personnel

[Boa kaa]

Apparently the case is approaching the trenches and Klochkova’s political officers will be required again ...

[zapas98]

If there is a system ahead, we need it, if God doesn’t bring me back with a notebook!

[svp67]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Apparently the case is approaching the trenches and Klochkova’s political officers will be required again ...

And in the photo NONE with a star on the sleeve, where are the political officers then? Again behind the commanders hid ...

[thinker]

Photo 2012 years

The crew of the large landing ship Caesar Kunikov of the Black Sea Fleet celebrated Russian Day in the Mediterranean Sea

http://vka.mil.ru/vka/news/more.htm?id=11178150@e
gNews

[Alceers]

here is the nettle seed. All the same, they are trying to foist these parasites. The mouth closed the materiel in the original. They are trying to eliminate one of the sensible innovations.

[captain]

Quote: Alceers

here is the nettle seed. All the same, they are trying to foist these parasites. The mouth closed the materiel in the original. They are trying to eliminate one of the sensible innovations.

I agree with you, these were loafers who did not answer for anything. I myself was a company battalion commander, and I can safely say that there was not much sense from them. By the way in reconnaissance regiments, art batteries, these loafers were not.

[taipan]

And in tank companies, too, there are no ZPRLS political commanders in a new way.

[Zaval]

I believe that at the moment a deputy for work with personnel is needed. Someone must explain to the personnel how a liberast differs from a pi_derast, "Memorial" from "Memory", democracy from "universal values."
In general, it was precisely for this that the Soviet Army intended the political leaders. If they were to do what they were supposed to, and not to organize leisure for the commanding staff and to create a deficit in military service, then in 1991 at the All-Army Officer Meeting they would preserve a single army, and maybe even a union.

[gispanec]

Quote: ZAVal

I believe that at the moment a deputy for work with personnel is needed. Someone must explain to the personnel how a liberast differs from a pi_derast, "Memorial" from "Memory", democracy from "universal values."

and do you think the soldiers and officers are so stupid that they need to be explained? .....

[Ivan Ivanov]

Quote: gispanec

and do you think the soldiers and officers are so stupid

Looking from the side: the thing is awareness, for the political officer, getting and sharing info is a profile occupation.

[gispanec]

info political instructor is like propaganda .... of all political instructors

[kot28.ru]

there are individuals what to do! Especially when they picked up a contract from a civilian by pulling on a contract!

[Sergey Voronezhsky]

Yes, stupid and even stupid to disgrace - political officers are needed to explain the essence of the current moment to the stupid.

[gispanec]

Quote: Sergey Voronezhsky

Yes, stupid and even stupid to disgrace - political officers are needed to explain the essence of the current moment to the stupid

judging by yourself chtol urol dill? ... then yes ... ukrop need ... and the glorious city of Voronezh, take away from nickname not a shame ...

[veteran66]

Quote: gispanec

by yourself chtol urol dill judge?

partly right, unfortunately ...

[gispanec]

Quote: veteran66

partly right, unfortunately ...

do you think the people of Russia are stupid cattle? .... if he is right ... well, well ..... stupid then who is imposing his point of view ...

[veteran66]

Quote: gispanec

Do you think the people of Russia are stupid cattle ?.

why do you rush to extremes? I wrote: "kind of". Here is a gopnik in the alley, robbing and beating the weak, or a drinker and shouting "Tagi-i-i-il!" All over the street! who is this? Not stupid bidlo? But even such people get into the army, I saw enough of them at the end of the service. Yes, fortunately there are not the majority of them, but there are not a few of them, unfortunately.

[Zaval]

And explain and explain. If they do not do it, then people from the Yeltsin Centers and the grand-eaters from the Soros Foundation will do it

[veteran66]

Quote: gispanec

and do you think the soldiers and officers are so stupid

it's not stupidity, but a loss of guidance. A fair remark by one officer in the 90s: "Why go to die for that? For Abramovich's yacht or Smolensky banks? Let them sit in the trenches themselves." At that time, the salary was low, and even then they did not pay, in Moscow the students of the academies worked as janitors and loaders, and these world eaters competed with whom the yacht was longer.

[vladimirZ]

and do you think the soldiers and officers are so stupid that they need to be explained? .....- gispanec

Unfortunately, in political matters, yes!
In the Soviet Army, political workers worked poorly, engaged in recruiting, and not political work. If they really did carry out political work, perhaps the leadership of the Army, soldiers and officers would not stand on the side of state criminal Yeltsin, save the USSR, and would not shoot the Supreme Council of the Russian Federation - the highest legislative body of the state.
Yes, the modern Army needs people explaining the essence of the political events that are taking place, so that the military people can understand: where is the TRUTH and where is the FALSE, can step over themselves and not fulfill criminal, essentially anti-state orders, in spite of any threats and punishments threatening them ; understood that they were called upon to defend the people and the country, and not people temporarily elected to power, and even more so thieving and corrupt officials and oligarchs.
It is naive, but maybe then there were no "Serdyukovs" destroying the Army and the state's defenses.

[vladimirZ]

In the Army it is necessary to educate not only the rank and file, but also officers, so that they are not blind weapons against the people.

[veteran66]

Quote: vladimirZ

In the Army it is necessary to educate not only the rank and file, but also officers, so that they are not blind weapons against the people.

Quote: vladimirZ

If they really did carry out political work, perhaps the leadership of the Army, soldiers and officers would not stand on the side of state criminal Yeltsin, save the USSR, and would not shoot the Supreme Council of the Russian Federation - the highest legislative body of the state.

The army carried out the order of the commander in chief, and if, after receiving the order, the soldiers and officers think this order is good or bad, then this is not the army. The electorate needs to think when it goes to the polls, so that then the army is not forced to shoot people.

[vladimirZ]

The army carried out the order of the commander in chief, and if ... - veteran66

Any soldier from an ordinary to a general must understand the criminal order he is given or not.
And there is nothing complicated. If the order for the execution of the people, the highest priority in the Constitution of power, the soldier should not follow this order. This should be elementary true for the military.
The Constitution is the highest law, above any decree and order, for all, including the military.
Violators of the Constitution are criminals subject to prosecution and punishment, and no reference to a higher order is an excuse. This should be known to all the military.
Unfortunately, as historical events show, they don’t know.
The example of "Commander-in-Chief" Yeltsin, who committed a coup d'etat and shot the highest legislative body of the state - the Supreme Soviet of the Russian Federation - elected by the people, is a vivid example of this.
Together with Yeltsin, all those who carried out that criminal order of the "Commander-in-Chief" became criminals. They had to be judged, and the time will come when their names will be revealed and they will be condemned.

[veteran66]

Quote: vladimirZ

If the order to shoot people,

but how to determine whether the people came or a bunch of gopniks rob?

[vladimirZ]

"Gopniks" do not attend rallies, demonstrations and protests. Everything is very simple, if you have your head on your shoulders, and an intelligent political officer who knows the political component of our life and is ready to share responsibility with the commander for failure to comply with an illegal order.

[veteran66]

Quote: vladimirZ

"Gopniks" do not attend rallies, demonstrations and protests.

what do you say when in the 17th the Bolsheviks lured people with wine cellars and led crowds to the streets, and the army with red bows refused to shoot at all this, what happened? First a coup, then a civil war and devastation .... In Germany, these tricks did not go away.

Quote: vladimirZ

if you have a head on your shoulders, and a politician sensible

I can also say that the sensible government will not give such an order. And if the electorate chose a government that will shoot at it, then rightly such a people will be smarter.

[vladimirZ]

what do you say when in the 17th the Bolsheviks lured people with wine cellars and led crowds to the streets, and the army with red bows refused to shoot - veteran66

Bad you know the story. Deficiencies of teachers at school or political officers in the Army?
During the February Revolution, which was not committed by the Bolsheviks, but by the bourgeoisie and those close to the tsar, and by the October Revolution, namely the Revolution, because in the course of it the socio-political system was changed, in Russia, the so-called DOUBLE AUTHORITY took shape, in the form of the power of the bourgeois Provisional Government and the Soviets of workers, soldiers and peasants' deputies.
By October 1917, a political crisis had developed in the country, which was also caused by the inability of the Provisional Government to govern the state.
Russia began to fall apart into national states, separatist sentiments began to boil in Finland, the Baltic states, Poland, and the Caucasus. The army was rotting. The military opposed the Provisional Government; earlier General Kornilov raised a rebellion, the suppression of which was organized by the Soviets of Workers', Soldiers' and Peasants' Deputies, which were gathering strength. The country was seething, workers demanded an 8-hour working day and fair payment for labor, peasants land, soldiers ending the war.
Everything went to collapse. The interim government ceased to rule the state. Power increasingly passed into the hands of the Soviets. During the work of the Second All-Russian Council of Workers', Soldiers' and Peasants' Deputies, the Bolsheviks arrested the no-governing and unsupported Provisional Government, and the power was completely transferred to the Soviets, moreover, peacefully.
At the same time, the All-Russian Congress of Soviets elects the Soviet Government, issues the famous decrees on peace, land, and the declaration of the rights of peoples, thereby satisfying the aspirations of the majority of the people of Russia. Power finally passes on the spot to the Soviets, in which there were representatives of various political forces: Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, Left Socialist Revolutionaries, etc.

[veteran66]

Quote: vladimirZ

Deficiencies of teachers at school

just this nonsense teachers told us at school

[Aviator_]

Their names are open: in the articles of V. Bushin, for example. Only Pasha-Mercedes, and Evnevich, who still lives well, remained in my memory. One of the tank commanders, who shot the Supreme Soviet in October 1993, participated in the autumn "capture" of Grozny in 1994, was captured and was shown by the Chechens on TV at the same time.

[Glory1974]

If you do not bring up a civilian, you have to fill this gap in the army. At this stage, a necessary step. I would rather have a deputy in profile (in combat, in special., Zampotech.)

[Sasha_Sar]

I bring you to the notice that from 1988 to 1991 on Mondays from 9.00 to 12.15 I conducted classes with my warhead-2. Combat officers conducted classes with their fighters performing the duties of these parasites. And all their methodological assistance consisted in maintaining Lenin's PSS and the Kommunist VS magazine, as well as the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

[gabonskijfront]

the political officer, in my experience, was either a bastard or a drunkard; I did not meet others.

[kepmor]

LIE, dear !!! Oh, how lying ... probably "urgent" served, then it's understandable ... for such "campaigners" any officer is a "bastard and a drunkard", and even more so a political officer!
Over the 15 years of service on the ships of the Northern Fleet, he saw many deputies who, along with everyone, carried navigational watch, and duty, and according to combat schedules did not stay in cabins, but were engaged in real affairs as part of combat crews of air defense, air defense, etc.
And the people knew how to competently work and for ship commanders were not a burden, but real assistants in all matters!
So don’t have to empty for free .....

[Bath]

you are apparently wildly lucky or you yourself represent this social type

[kepmor]

My type is ... 15 calendar on ships ... commander of the warhead-starpom-commander of the ship-chief of staff-commander of the NK compound.
As in August 83 he stepped on the deck ... so in 98 and left it "darling" ...
And the lucky one who is "lucky" and "pulls the strap" ....

[Sasha_Sar]

If you served in the Northern Fleet should have seen the large landing craft "Moskalenko", and so I report that the deputy there from 92 to 98 or 99 was Yuri Vladimirovich, well, such a "good deputy" that there is no place to put the hallmarks. Neither he nor his political officers kept watch in the seas. And if earlier in the "Kiev Bursa" they received the diploma of a navigator and could replace navigators on "dogs" in the sea, then in the early 80s they achieved that this diploma would not be given to them. And what is the most innocuous nickname they have in the fleet, rightly, "they have not studied for a year." On our "crocodiles" pr 775, the deputies of the VO watch in the sea were carried, I will not lie, and perhaps they were also included in the air defense calculations. So this is from the despair of the situation, there are only two officers who can keep watch in the military. The commander of the warhead-2,3 and the deputy. commander.

[skobars]

Well, well, to see a little experience, or served in the rear units.

[Thunderbolt]

The position is necessary, but the name is somehow indigestible for pronunciation: deputy commander for work with personnel .... while you say it!)))
It roots them or something from the old names, and the names were capacious as a song --- political officer, political instructor ... commissioner . Without any sarcasm! How many of them took command during the war, how many were killed by soldiers. In peacetime, this post goes by the wayside or something, but during the war it is especially needed. The Germans understood this well and shot commanders from star on the sleeve

[Ivan Tucha]

It is high time. My sister-in-law's son under St. Petersburg served at the headquarters. For a year in a few runners, one hanged himself. All based on non-service. There is no campaign at all with conscripts.
As our battalion commander said: if a soldier looks at one point for more than 10 seconds, he has something in mind.
Competent psychologists are needed.

[Bath]

a soldier’s personal time, to the detriment of digging trenches in the morning, after lunch to load pig-iron conscripts for this and are intended for the year anyway, you really don’t really teach anything

[svp67]

Here is such a "cycle" of political officers in nature ...

[pvv113]

The possibility of the return of "political leaders"

In our regiment they said: "a regiment without a political officer is like a village without a d.u.r.a.k.a"

[Igor V]

They also said: The sun fries and burns, the political commander goes on vacation.

[pvv113]

And when capercaillie freezes - techies go on vacation

[Vovanfalcon]

Nah ... the bird freezes on the fly - they’re driving techno on vacation)))

[veteran66]

Quote: VovanFalcon

on vacation driven techno

and the nachfin is offended, laughs - this one goes when he wants

[Igor V]

And in the dead of winter, Vanka-platoon goes on vacation

[pvv113]

And there was such a saying - how does the political officer differ from the commissioner?
The commissar said: do as I do!
And the political commander said: do as I said!

[vladimirvn]

If everything was good in this area, I mean the moral and psychological state of the personnel, then they probably would not have been introduced. This is not where they drink "Hawthorn", this is not our drug in schools, we do not know about the heroes of the Great Patriotic War and generally nothing about that war. And all young people are patriotic and ready to defend their homeland. It is not with us, more than half of those with military cards have never served and will not serve in the army. We are fine. Yes, commissars overseeing commanders are not needed, let the special officers do it. But trained trained specialists, including psychologists, are needed. Where there are such specialists and the death of people in peacetime is much less.

[romandostalo]

I fully support when I asked my adoptive son when there was an atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he hesitantly answered in the 19th century, This is damn our school, they come to the army with complete mess in my head!

[veteran66]

Quote: romandostalo

This is damn our school

and family? The love of knowledge is born in the family, the school only shows where to get it and how to apply it.

[vetor]

The right character to say. The Great Patriotic War passed a law on one-man management and inertia remained.
As the picture is now: standing in front of you and he is fatherly - do they write to me from home !!!
Tick ​​on the body of the Army IMHO.

[Sidel45]

radar lock

It is also necessary to revive the "castle in the Morde", i.e. Deputy Commander for Naval Affairs.

[cannabis]

Pattern in tactics leads to defeat. The pattern in the personnel system forces you to step on the same rake twice and three times. If having said "A" do not say "B", then it is better not to open your mouth at all. We have created an institute of career sergeants (non-commissioned officers - contract soldiers), so give them power! Platoons and groups should be commanded by junior commanders. So it was in the pre-revolutionary army. A company should not have five officers, but two — a company commander and his deputy. Here the deputy will just be that "educator". And if there is an experienced foreman in the company, in a couple of years the castle will become a good company commander.

[Monarchist]

I don't know how justified this reform is. On the one hand, we all remember what was the use of that "pump", and on the other hand, a full-time psychologist on the ship is needed

[surovts.valery]

Quote: Finches

State Secretary - Deputy Minister of Defense Nikolai Pankov at Serdyukov and dispersed them, along with schools!

Quite right, while still under the military rank of general, he was called by some state secretary under the Defense Ministry Serdyukov, so he still sits there in the Defense Ministry, is reforming.
Well, about the need for deputy. ship commanders "for educational work" or in other words "for work with personnel" should be asked by the ship commanders themselves and the commander of the Navy and his deputies, who were also once KK. But nobody asks them.
And I personally, for my service, was the deputy for VR and ships of rank 3 and 2, and formations. It seems like this question is in my competence, see my opinion on this above, so I will not speak out, many (or some) here do not like it on the so-called website. "political officers". Yours faithfully!

[kepmor]

As a former ship commander and connection commander, I’m answering ... I need a ship’s depot for ships and formations !!!!!!
And the rise in office and the service itself of any officer is 90% dependent on the commander (ship, formation), including the deputy for VR ... train and demand, if the "idiot" (and there are such people), then remove from the post ... there are many vacancies on the shore!
When I was a commander, all deputies were in charge of the emergency party, although according to the schedule it was the boatswain's business, and they did not run to complain to the political department about me when they were included in the PLO and air defense crews. And as an officer of the watch on the move and at anchor, this is generally a "holy cause". They understood that this increases their authority in the crew.
To all my deputies for BP I am very grateful for the joint service!

[surovts.valery]

To all my deputies for BP I am very grateful for the joint service!

Thanks for the comment! And I am grateful to all my commanders for our joint service and the service under their supervision. At one time, he passed tests for the admission of almost everything and everything (and - not formally) and accordingly carried the corresponding service. In this regard, I have nothing to be ashamed of.
And there was also responsibility. Take any orders on the results of investigations of an emergency, etc., punishment of the KK for various "jambs", no matter for what, wherever the so-called. "human factor", the second punished, after the commander, was the deputy. by BP.

[kepmor]

I just can’t stand it when indiscriminately hayat "all under the comb" ...
And there were always enough boobies and mediocrity in the fleet ... both among midshipmen and among officers.
Not a post paints a person, but a person ....

[seregatara1969]

shower cleaner - certainly necessary position

[romandostalo]

The position is very necessary, the main thing is that people are responsible!

[Stinger]

Under Serdyukov, this post was really not needed. Ships stood against the wall. But in campaigns, someone should deal with the moral and psychological state of the personnel.

[alex116rus]

[quote = Ivan Cloud] It's high time. My sister-in-law's son under St. Petersburg served at the headquarters. For a year in a few runners, one hanged himself. All based on non-service. There is no campaign at all with conscripts.
Yes, the right person will slow down, we had such a Lieutenant Colonel Savinov, a person of a wide soul. I was worried about the soldiers. Came to "quarantine", to the young and says:
- Why did you guys come to serve, let's "hang yourself", "open up", And we take you to the hospital for 40 days, "white" ticket, compensation of 40 thousand rubles. And home, at the expense of the state, as victims (psychologically) while fulfilling the state debt.
As a result of 250 people. replenishment of about 50 "suicides" who scratched their hand with a blade and that's it, home.
Prior to this, for half a year, from the draft of 600-2 people (not lethal), they really could not stand it, they commanded.
Part just howled from his activities ....
God forbid, someone such a political officer. And psychologists are needed, even more necessary.

[Eugene-Eugene]

Apparently, you have greatly annoyed the underground, if you are pouring out such nonsense here.

[domnich]

Quote: taypan

they were loafers who were not responsible for anything

Everything depends on specific people. The trouble is that people of a certain warehouse will seek these positions. No responsibility, power over people, the ability to do nothing.
One of the political leaders (captain 1 rank), with whom I had the opportunity to serve, and agitated the sailors for admission to the Kiev Political School. He took out a bundle of banknotes and convinced: “You know that I do nothing, but how much I get!”
There was only one normal political officer for my entire service - a war veteran who actually fought as a cadet near Leningrad ... And any responsible commander and without assistants in this part holds the hand on the pulse of his subordinates.

[Sotskiy]

The possibility of the return of "political politicians" (in fact, the designation of the deputy commander for work with personnel), generally accepted since Soviet times, is due to the fact that the number of long-distance hikes and their duration in the navy has recently increased significantly. At the same time, there are frequent cases of psychologically negative states of individual sailors who, as it turns out, are not always ready for months of sea crossings and combat patrols on distant shores.

In the course of political affairs, it is necessary to return not only to the Navy, but first of all to the Government of the Russian Federation, otherwise the psychological climate in the country, to put it mildly, wishes for the best from their "creative" initiatives among the entire population.

[saltickov.]

Well, then one wise guy told me about the Serdyukovsky alleged merits, he is so white and fluffy, etc.

[Varyag15]

I don’t know how to write culturally, but for how many years to rake the deeds of this pi .... Protect people of non-traditional orientation

[starshina78]

In three years of service I have survived two political officers. The first tried to persuade everyone to join the CPSU, for which he paid with a star. From kapleyev he became an elder and ashore the secretary of the division's party organization. the second (came from a diesel boat from the Mediterranean flotilla) annoyed everyone with amateur performances. Everyone participated in something. I recited the poem "Conversation with Comrade Lenin." On the one hand, depriving him of access to the city in the House of the Fleet in the evening some. In fact, they were both harmless.

[tolmachiev51]

"Shaw again" !!!? - comrade commissars. And how did you manage without them for 26 years?

[Bayonet]

At the same time, there are also cases of psychologically negative conditions in individual sailors, who, as it turns out, are not always ready for months-long sea crossings and combat patrols on distant shores.

So this is a job for psychologists, not for “political leaders,” whom the Navy, to put it mildly, was not respected.

[Bayonet]

In which fleet, history is silent, it is not the point, in principle, the situation of military-political significance in all fleets is equivalent, but it was in the temporary Soviet state, at a time when the position and essence of political officer on the combat unit of the system, the "submarine" was akin to the generalissimo , and even bigger.
So he lived on a boat, the political officer (hereinafter referred to as the Political Politician), a man, by the way, vile to bluish, the team in a more atheistic assumed that it was Satan. That man was mean and small, and the qualities of worthy men were alien and disgusting to him.
As in any fairy tale, since there is evil, there is good. The good was in the person of the commander of this very boat - let's call it proudly - Commander. A seasoned, grated and fearless man.
And somehow it happened that the patience of our commander burst, and for the merits or just that he sent that Zampolit to the x ... th, and since the messenger did not have male dignity, he set off to the district headquarters with complaints supposedly this way they sent, they say, in front of all the personnel on the x ... y, and I say the man in the navy is significant, they say the figure is supposedly important in the political arena. There is paper, there must be action.
They call the Commander to the headquarters and the chief of staff, to him: "I understand, the snake is under the ass, but you can't, so with the political officer, you ought to apologize to him, consider this an order, period."
An order is an order to be executed. The Commander builds all the personnel on board, summons to himself a political officer and then a dialogue:

Commander: Deputy Politician, where have I sent you?
Zampolit (nowhere to go): On x ... th!
Commander: Where did you go?
Zampolit: To the headquarters ...
Commander: Well, sorry!
A curtain!

[Ml.S-nt Ivan Kuzmich]

For some reason, everything connected with Serdyukov is called "strange". And who said that the political officer is necessary on the ship? Shoigu? Then everything is correct! Hooray! After all, if Serdyukov is a thief, then, by definition, he is wrong!

[Alceers]

Quote: kepmor

I just can’t stand it when indiscriminately hayat "all under the comb" ...
And there were always enough boobies and mediocrity in the fleet ... both among midshipmen and among officers.
Not a post paints a person, but a person ....

Heh, praised the cuckoo rooster. The deputies themselves in a private conversation admit that they are drones, and here you have spread demagoguery.

[Roust]

That's right. And yet, Taburetkina on the bunk, then it would be more fair.

[veteran66]

Quote: Roust

And still, Taburetkina on the bunk,

his tudes, and also DD to reduce by three times, to cancel allowances and pensions again for 9 thousand

[Penzioner]

Quote: ZAVal

Someone must explain to personnel how the liberalist differs from pi_derast

And how can he explain this if he himself is an elerast? Or the one to whom erarast himself is explained?

[veteran66]

Quote: PenZioner

And how can he explain it

"It is not necessary to beat, but they will not penetrate - to explain" V.S. Vysotsky

[L10n77]

Quote: Ml.S-nt Ivan Kuzmich

The commander must be both the father and teacher of the sailor! And if the number is more than 100 people, let there be another Father Priest! There should be no political officers and commissars! Shoigu starts to flirt a little. And not far from the detachments!

Normally, the commander is the father, the political leader is the mother, but there is no need for priests in the army, we have a secular and multinational state, someone believes in God, someone in Allah, someone in Buddha, and someone in Science, so it’s better to be a political officer. A good deputy politician is the best and assistant commander, and a mediator for a soldier, if he was able to win the respect and love of the soldiers, then many of the problems of soldiers and relations can be solved without going to the level of command, and especially prosecutors and courts.

[voyaka uh]

Serdyukov, as I understand it, is unpopular (stealing somehow), but his reforms
were sensible.

Now they are returning divisions, armies, and political officers. Lots of new headquarters and
posts on the budget. In the absence of soldiers and their service only 1 year.

[vladimirZ]

the teachers at school told us this nonsense - veteran66,

This is you telling "nonsense", not being able to analyze historical events, obsessing over insignificant events, such as "opened wine cellars."
This is not the essence of what was happening. The main thing is that it has made changes in the socio-political structure of Russia. A change of power in the interests of the majority of the people, the creation of a socialist, socially fair state.

[pacific]

Zampolitov need to be prepared specially. In the USSR there was a network of watered schools, which trained specialists for all military branches.
By the way, January 21 will be exactly 50 years (1967) from the day the order on the creation of watered schools is issued.
Alas, the political officers (at least in the navy) turned into a caste that the military officers did not really like. Well, and the slogan "a political worker is a party representative (i.e. CPSU) in the Armed Forces "put political officers in an exceptional position, removing commanders from power. Stupid and ambitious political instructors shamelessly used this, further intensifying the split with the combatant officers.
How to restore the system of deputies for BP at the lowest cost? How to avoid a new split in the officer corps into closed castes? One idea came to my mind: to create in some schools something like a master's program. Unlearned the main course, along with everyone, and then, if there is a desire and talent for educational work - study a year / a half additionally as an officer-educator. And so that they do not feel their inferiority - after all, they have lost some time studying, and their sidekicks are already earning regular stars for epaulettes, to reduce such officers the qualifications for serving for 1 year (for senior lieutenant and captain-lieutenant).

[kriwo.alek]

The question is solved simply. Politruk already issued in the state. universities (there was some kind of department there, I don’t remember exactly), followed by military service. The main and very important thing is that they must obey superior commanders on a common basis, and not belong to any party.

[pacific]

I can’t imagine what they can teach in civilian universities? I mean what I need for the service.
Yes, at least live in the barracks to understand what it is? In order to remember at least in the first 2-3 years of officer service what "non-dismissal" is for rank and file.
But what about the knowledge of the performance characteristics of various weapons systems? Indeed, in order for BP to be effective, it must be targeted for each individual specialist: for a torpedo gunner - one, for a steering-signalman another.
And such a political officer among the other officers would be a laughing stock. The split into castes will be even stronger than in Soviet times. Although I personally know of a couple of cases when the “jacket” two-year-olds became very, very sensible officers and political workers. But these, precisely, are exceptions.
No matter how bad and formalized the system of training “deputies” in the USSR was, but the young lieutenants still had at least some idea of ​​both technology and tactics. And about the service in general.

[kriwo.alek]

Of course, the Zapolitans are needed, but only competent and smart people who know not only the political situation in the World, but also the history of our country, and others will not hurt. According to the present politician, it is necessary not only to conduct explanatory work, but also to help military personnel in their personal hardships. In the USSR there were no fools, imputing these posts. Real, not blinded political officers in the army were very respected people among the soldiers. Times have certainly changed, but no one has canceled the teaching of youth to love their homeland, and it is not necessary. Quite the opposite.