Formation of the Soviet propaganda system in 1921-1940

So, anyone who hears these words of My word and executes them, I will liken him to a prudent man, who built his house on a stone; and it began to rain, and the rivers flooded, and the winds blew, and they rushed upon that house, and it did not fall, because it was founded on stone. And anyone who hears these words of Mine and does not fulfill them will become like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and it began to rain, and the rivers poured out, and the winds blew, and lodged upon that house; and he fell, and there was a great fall.
(Matthew 7: 21-28)



On the pages of the BO, the discussions about the role and place of party leadership in the life of Soviet society, as well as whether it was positive or negative, flare up every now and then. It is also about censorship. It would be nice to return it ... There is a lot of fervor in this controversy, but there is little knowledge. At best, debaters refer to their personal experiences and articles in electronic media. And for a dispute in the kitchen or in the smoking room of the sheet rolling shop, this is enough. But still here, on this site, more weighty arguments are desirable. In this regard, I would like to present the material of Svetlana Timoshin, associate professor of the Penza State University, which, as part of its research, processed a lot of information: the Pravda newspaper from 1921 to 1953, local Penza newspapers, documents from the archive of the State Archive of the Penza Region, that is, everything that contains a lot of interesting concrete facts and examples.
IN. Shpakovsky

At the beginning of the 1920's in the Soviet state, a unified centralized system of party propaganda bodies subordinate to them was established, covering all levels of government. By 1921, the multiparty press was eliminated, the entire network of Soviet newspapers became one-party. It received the functions of an instrument of agitation and propaganda of socialist values, an instrument of party control of all aspects of the daily life of the population [1]. The main organizational feature of the Soviet agitprop was the rigid centralization of the entire system of agitation and propaganda bodies. Analyzing the working style of the apparatus of the Bolshevik agitation and propaganda system, A.I. Guriev in his work describes him as “military-bureaucratic” [2], noting that “in Soviet Russia and then in the USSR the communist party completely subjugated the state apparatus”.


"Truth" on the front line

Despite the huge number of institutions that controlled, in one way or another, the activities of the Soviet press, the party organizations were the main structures directing the work of the Soviet media. As noted by OL. Mitvol in his study [3], “within 1922, the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) In the person of its departments resolutely moved to the main place among the agencies that directed the work of the media.”

At the beginning of the 1920's at meetings of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) documents were read out that clearly regulate the relations of party organs and the editorial boards of newspapers [4]. According to these documents, local, regional, provincial, and later regional committees of the CPSU (b) controlled the activities of the newspapers. In the Penza province, the activities of the local press were controlled by the General Department, Agitpropotdel and the Press Branch of the Penza Provincial Committee of the CPSU (b).

It should be noted that citizens were informed both about events in the country and about life abroad, and the latter was faced with certain difficulties. There were questions about “what to write about” and “where to get information”, but the main thing is “what to write?” Whether to give comparative information “they have from us” or limit to short information blocks that “everything is bad there”. How to dispense truth and outright lies is a challenge that always confronts propaganda agencies. The reason for this work was even such a reason as the weak organizational formation of the above-mentioned structures, which led to contradictions in the activities of central and local party organizations: “It was established that many local committees do not send their publications to the Central Committee of the RCP (B). The situation is particularly bad with the dispatch of leaflets, posters, newspapers and brochures. Thanks to this, it is difficult for the Secretariat of the Central Committee to systematically give instructions to the field and give information to the places in a timely manner ”[5]. Difficulties also arose in the organization of the activities of county newspapers due to a misunderstanding by the local leadership of the role of newspapers in a young Soviet society. This is clearly seen from the content of the documents of that period: “... The subscription to our provincial newspaper“ Trudovaya Pravda ”of party members and individual party members is extremely sluggish. The overwhelming majority of party cells, both urban and rural in particular, did not take any measures to conduct a mandatory subscription or limited themselves to a resolution that remained on paper ”[6].

Formation of the Soviet propaganda system in 1921-1940

The newspaper "Pravda". No.74. 1 April 1925

The lack of coordinated work between the central party organs and local organizations of the RCP (b) influenced the implementation of the policy of informing the population of the Penza province about events abroad. The local leadership, judging by the archival documents, did not attach such importance to information about foreign life as the VKP (b) Central Committee. For example, the Head of the Agitpropaganda Department of the Penza Gubkom of the CPSU (B.) Sent 17.08.1921 of the year to the Nizhne-Lomovsky Ukom Circular regulating the activities of the Golos Poornyak newspaper, which said: “The editors should first of all involve the agronomists and specialists business executives and to achieve maximum participation in the newspaper of the local peasant population. The latter may well be achieved if, instead of reporting on Churchill's rest in Paris (No. 15), the editorial board, will print economic instructions to the peasants for fighting drought, animal husbandry, etc. ”[7]. Probably, this was the correct remark for the Golos Poornyak newspaper and the correct remark as a whole. However, on the other hand, ignore foreign news it was also impossible. This is an important part of educating the masses.

The next reason for the poor organization of informing the public about life abroad was the poorly developed media network at the beginning of the 1920s. In the Penza province, the newspaper publishing house was in a difficult position due to a shortage of qualified personnel and a lack of equipment and funding, therefore newspapers barely made it to the majority of the population of the province, which then lived in rural areas. This fact was reflected in the reporting documentation of the printing unit of the Penza Sponge Committee of the RKP (b) [8]. The shortage of newspapers in the countryside was acutely felt throughout the entire 1920 period. For example, in the part of the Report on the results of party education in Ruzaevsky district 1927-1928 of the school year, which characterizes the activities of the newspaper circle, the following was said: “... The quality of the work of the circle and the lack of sufficient quality of the newspaper reduced, often there were one or two newspapers, and local - “Plant and Plowed Field”, in the Nizhne-Lomovsky district in the newspaper circle “there are no newspapers”. Consequently, in the early stages of the formation of the Soviet state in the implementation of the policy of informing citizens about life abroad, the informing function was mainly performed not by the media, but by the party workers themselves, who left for the village and the enterprises with lectures.

The third factor that determined the nature of the events on informing about foreign events on the ground was the low level of literacy among the population of the province against the background of the unfavorable position in the economy [9]. In 1921, the Chembarsky district of the Penza region unfolded the following situation: “The agitote department stated that, despite the fact that newspapers from the local Centropech Branch sent mail to the whole district, newspapers did not reach the village. When they get into the volisocomas, they immediately go into the pockets of smokers completely unread ”[10]. In the 1926, the press report contained the following data on the literacy of the population of the Penza province: “Literacy, especially among ethnic minorities, still fits into 10-12%, or even less. The rest of the Penza villages are completely illiterate. ” Here it is also necessary to say that illiterate people met among the party members even after 10 years. For example, in 1936, in a letter from the Secretary of the Penza Municipal Committee of the CPSU (b) Rudenko, the following figures were given to the Department of Party Propaganda and Agitation of the Krajkom CPSU (b): people, of them: members of the CPSU (b) - 549 and candidates 357 people. Those who graduated from 192 people, studied in rural schools, 128 people and engaged in self-education 256 people. Among self-taught people there are 165 communists (without the Frunze plant) completely illiterate, i.e. they read through the stores, do not know the multiplication tables, and do not know how to write fluently ... The list of illiterate communists is attached ”[30]. Next was a list of names. Speaking about the low literacy rate of the population of the Penza province, it should be noted that our region was not an exception in those years. According to A.A. Grabelnikov in his work, most of the population was illiterate. Describing the role of the press in the early post-revolutionary years, he cites the following data: “Compared with such developed European countries as Sweden or Denmark, where almost the entire population was literate, and in Switzerland and Germany illiteracy was 11-1%, Russia looked very backward : before the revolution, more than 2% of the population, not counting children up to the age of 70, was illiterate ”[9].

Despite the fact that the Penza City Committee of the CPSU (b) took measures to eliminate illiteracy among the ordinary population and the Communists, the number of illiterate people did not decrease as quickly as we would like. According to the report “On the course of the elimination of illiteracy and illiteracy of communists in Penza on 20 in January 1937”, attendance in groups on the elimination of illiteracy among illiterate and illiterate communists was “65% [13]” to the training of the communists and poor control by the Raykomov over the work of schools. " It should be noted here that its imprint on the level of education of the population left a difficult economic and sanitary-epidemiological situation in the Penza region in the first half of the 1930-s. This is eloquently illustrated by the themes of the campaigns conducted by the Penza City Committee of the CPSU (b) and the City Council. In 1934, with the help of the local newspaper Rabochaya Penza, the Penza City Committee of the CPSU (b) issued a resolution on holding a campaign “For a clean apartment, a hut, for a clean courtyard” from 10 February through 1 March, the terrible sanitary-epidemiological situation in the city of Penza: “... 4. During the two-decade, to make a continuous washing of all the towns and villages of the city, to assign personal responsibility for the washing in the city to the ZhAKT-chairmen, house commissioners, building commanders, in the village - to the chairmen of the village center. collective farms and foremen; in state and collective farms on the directors and head of the sites ... 7. For persons who are subject to mandatory trimming - such as to produce in the baths for free ... 9 ... On the line (railway) send mobile baths with a camera for handling passengers, station facilities, as well as adjoining villages ... 11. To carry out general cleaning of all public places, as well as Soviet and economic institutions, institutions throughout the city and village ”[14].

The low level of literacy of the population inevitably influenced the substantive part of public awareness campaigns on the ground. In particular, in the 1936 year, the monthly kolkhoz party trade list programs included “studying a geographical map in order to orient collective party trade with countries of the world, state borders and the largest cities of both the USSR and capitalist countries, to provide brief geographic political and geographical information about the most important countries so that the party organizer, using the newspaper, would have a clearer idea of ​​the geographical location of the countries, states, peoples and cities that he reads about in the newspaper. To this we must add that when studying the map, one or two reports on the international situation should be put as additional classes. ”

In connection with the current difficult situation in the media system, the Agitprop department of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) Called for more decisive action on the ground: “It is necessary to strengthen, strengthen and support the Directorate of the GPP (Growth) in every way. Local party committees should allocate party-aged and politically trained workers to work in the local press, to manage the Growth departments. Such a powerful apparatus, such as radio, telegraph and telephone communication between the press and information authorities, should be fully utilized by the party ”[15].

Gradually, in the process of the formation of the party system, the contradictions between the central and local organs of the CPSU (b) in informing about events abroad were eliminated. Penza Sponge CPSU (b) clearly followed circulars received from the Central Committee of the CPSU (b). In 1930-s, work on informing about foreign events was systematically carried out in rural areas, for the Selkoms the Penza City Committee of the CPSU (b) wrote out the newspaper Rabochaya Penza, which was the organ of the City Committee of the CPSU (b). It should be said here that the process of informing the population about life abroad was highly politicized, and the coverage of facts concerning foreign events sometimes had nothing to do with reality, since the main task of local party workers was not to inform reliable facts, and, following the instructions from above, reflect the views of the country's leadership on an event abroad. An example of this is the secret circular [16] signed by Secretary of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) V. Molotov of 9 in October of 1923, where an assessment was made of the events that took place at that time in Germany: “It has now become completely clear that the proletarian coup in Germany, it is not only inevitable, but already quite close - it has moved very close ... The conquest of fascism by broad strata of the petty bourgeoisie is extremely difficult due to the correct tactics of the German Communist Party. For Soviet Germany, an alliance with us, which is very popular among the broad masses of the German people, will be the only chance for salvation. On the other hand, only Soviet Germany is able to provide an opportunity for the USSR to resist the onslaught of international fascism and to speedily resolve the economic problems we face. This determines our position in relation to the German revolution. "


Newspaper "Labor Truth". No.235. 11 October 1928

Further, this document provided detailed instructions regulating the activities of local party bodies in the process of informing the public about events in Germany: “The Central Committee considers it necessary: ​​1. To focus the attention of the broadest workers and peasant masses on the German revolution. 2. In advance to expose the intrigues of our external and internal enemies, linking the defeat of revolutionary Germany with the new military campaign against the workers and peasants of the Soviet republics, with the complete defeat and dismemberment of our country. 3. To consolidate in the minds of every worker, peasant and Red Army man the unshakable confidence that the war which foreign imperialists are preparing to impose on us and, above all, the ruling classes of Poland (as you see, Poland was considered the main striking force of imperialism at that time forces to attack the USSR - VO), will be a defensive war for the preservation of land in the hands of the peasants, factories in the hands of the workers, for the very existence of the workers 'and peasants' power.

Agitprop company in connection with the international situation should be conducted widely and systematically. For this purpose, the Central Committee offers you: 1. To put on the agenda of all party meetings (general, district, cells, etc.) the question of the international situation, highlighting every stage and turn in the events now at the center of international life. 2. Regularly collect meetings of senior officials (party, Soviet, military, economic) for information and discussion of issues related to the international situation. 3. Immediately organize provincial workers' trips to counties and districts along volosts with reports on the international situation at party meetings in order to focus the entire party's attention on the German revolution. 4. Pay special attention to the formulation of agitation and propaganda among the workers and peasants, and in particular students. The secretaries of the Communist Committees of the PSC are obliged to keep the Bureau of the GCCs of the RKSM informed of the events. 5. To take all measures for wide coverage of the issue in the press, guided by the articles printed in Pravda and sent from the Press Bureau of TS.K. 6. To organize rallies at enterprises in order to lighten the present international situation with the utmost masses of the working class and to call the proletariat to be vigilant. Use delegate meetings of female workers. 7. Special attention should be paid to the coverage of the international situation among the masses of the peasantry. Broad peasant meetings about the German revolution and the threatening war everywhere must be preceded by meetings of party cells, where they exist. 8. The speakers ... very carefully instruct in the spirit of the general party line outlined by the last party meeting and the instructions of this circular. In our propaganda ... we cannot appeal (as in the text - V.Sh.) only to internationalist feelings. We must appeal to vital economic and political interests .... "

Thus, we can conclude that even in the most democratic period for the press 1921-1928-s. Soviet newspapers were not free in the coverage of foreign reality. Literally from the very first years of the existence of the Soviet state, the mass media in informing about foreign events were forced to carry out decisions of the party leadership.

In 1920's in the policy of informing the citizens of the country about life abroad, the newspapers played the role of a liaison between the party organs and the ordinary population. From the editorial office of the newspaper "Trudovaya Pravda" under the heading "Secret" in the Penza Sponge of the CPSU (b) reports were sent about the mood among the citizens. Judging by the content of the information reports compiled by the Penza Sponge Committee of the CPSU (b), in 1927, among the workers there were rumors about the upcoming war: “The workers of the Textile Factory named after Sh. Kutuzov (B-Demyan.Uezd) rumors are spreading about the approach of war, for example, one worker in a conversation said: “that foreign powers have already planned in the USSR by President Kerensky” [17]. How did he know that and why did he talk about it?

At rallies, workers and collective farmers, expressing interest in events outside the USSR, asked questions concerning foreign life. For example, in September 1939, residents of the Luninsky District were worried about such questions as: “Why did the Polish people not want to join the Soviet Union in 1917?”, “Will the Red Army not cross the state border and cause a war between the USSR and Germany?”, “ Is it possible to unite between Germany, Britain and France to fight the USSR? ”,“ Will Germany liberate the occupied cities belonging to Western Belarus and Ukraine? ”. An interesting fact is that during such events an atmosphere of dialogue between representatives of party structures and the ordinary population was indeed created. Not only positive responses to foreign policy events, but also negative statements from citizens were included in reports on campaign events. For example, regarding the events in Poland in 1939, citizens openly expressed their opinion: “The watchman of the Luninsky Penkozavod, an old man who is not a party member, Knyazev Kuzma Mikhailovich, in an interview with him a propagandist Comrade. Pakhalina: “It’s good that the business is doing without great sacrifices in defending Western Belarus and Ukraine, but this is again on our neck, because they are poor and they have to be helped a lot” ... Kolkhoznik of the Lenin Merlinsky collective farm / council Maxim Doronin, who he said at a rally in speeches: “After all, capitalists need war, capitalists are cashing in in war, and the working class is poor, so why are we starting a war?” [18].


Newspaper "Rabochaya Penza". No.138. 16 June 1937

Questions on the international situation were regularly included in the agendas of party conferences of women workers and peasants, they were examined in classes in political literacy and circles of the party education network, were included in the list of common tasks of local propaganda groups, were discussed during campaigns to popularize International Women's Communist Day, among recruits in the Red Army were covered even during campaigns for the sale of tickets of the All-Union lottery Osoaviahima, appeared in the plans of the party offices in the region in XN UMX-s.

Much attention was paid to the dissemination of information about events abroad and among young people. At the plenary sessions held by the Komsomol Group of Companies, strategies were developed and proposals were put forward to inform the public about international events: “... it will be necessary to practice this case — not a report on the international situation at all, but can there be a war with England, or so: not the situation in China, and why the Kuomintang split into right and left ... ".

But to a greater extent, the Penza Sponge of the CPSU (b) in its work with local newspapers focused on local events, as well as on the state of the press, the distribution of newspapers among workers and peasants, work among workers and farmers, the work of the press department, following circular instructions and the Central Committee RCP (b). This can be seen from the contents of the resolutions and work plans of the printing unit of the Penza Sponge Committee of the CPSU (B.): “... 1. To recognize the work of the press department of the Penza Provincial Committee satisfactory and basically correct. To offer the press department in the future to pay special attention to the ideological leadership of the provincial and district press and to increasing control over the correct and more active pursuit of the political line of the party ... 4. To admit it is necessary: ​​a) to strengthen in the “Labor Pravda” coverage of village issues, in particular, a specific explanation of the resolution of the XIV Party Congress on rural policy issues. b) strengthen the coverage of the work of the Soviets and the participation of workers and peasants in Soviet construction in the newspaper ”[19].

In 1930's In the work of the Penza city committee of the CPSU (b), the same tendency remained, that is, the party organization urged newspapers to focus on covering local events without being carried away by the description of international events. A report from 22 in May of 1937 on the work of the “district and grassroots press” stated the following: “... Working Penza pays little attention to the letters of the workers of the agricultural collectors and the newspaper, as a rule, is filled with Tassovian material and materials of the editorial staff.” Moreover, the main criterion for the selection of any recommendations for action by the local press was, as was the case when informing about foreign events, decisions of party congresses.

Due to the poorly developed broadcasting network [20] in the early 1930s. the population of the countryside learned about the events taking place abroad, mainly from newspapers and during various political campaigns conducted by party representatives. However, later in the late 1930-ies. along with newspaper material in informing the public about events abroad, radio also began to play its role. It should be noted that the same algorithm acted here in informing about facts of foreign reality, that is, first the information about events outside the USSR was processed by the party leadership, and then presented to the collective farmers and workers in the right light. An example of this is the document of Poimsky RK VKP (b) “On the work done to clarify the speech of Comrade. Molotov, radio 17 September 1939 of the year ", sent to the Propaganda Department of the Regional Committee of the CPSU (b): 1. District Committee of the CPSU (b) 18 / IX-39. at 5 hours of the evening, a meeting was held at the party cabinet with the whole activity, and 67 people were present at the party komsomol active. The whole Raypartaktiv received the printed leaflets with comrade speech. Molotov, broadcast by radio, after which everyone went to collective farms for meetings and rallies. 2. 18 September this year. in 7 hours of the evening a rally was held in the Raycenter building in the Raikino building. 350 people were present, the speech of the head of the Soviet government, Comrade. Molotov, broadcast by 17 / IX on radio and the issue of international events, at the rally, as well as at the Riparticztiv meeting, a resolution was approved approving our government’s foreign policy and the government’s decision to take protection of the peoples of Western Ukraine and Belarus living in Poland. ”

In 1939. By decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet on February 4, Tambov region. divided into the Tambov and Penza regions, in March the Penza Regional Committee of the CPSU (b) was organized.

The topics of lectures and seminars on international events held in the regions of the region in 1939 were specified, namely, issues of German-Soviet relations, “Japanese aggression in the Far East”, military actions in Poland, China, events of the Second World War began to be covered.

Penza Regional Committee of the CPSU (b) took measures to improve the professionalism of journalistic personnel. For example, in 1940, according to the decision of the Bureau of the Regional Committee of the CPSU (b) from 9 to 13 in September, 10 workers of district newspapers visited Moscow at VSHV, where they listened to the lectures of Pravda newspaper workers, and also got acquainted with the work of the plant Truth "[21]. After all this, their professionalism, of course, rose very much ...

So, by the beginning of 1940's. the system of informing Soviet citizens about life abroad was fully formed and acquired the following scheme: the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) sent out directives for conducting awareness campaigns about an event in international life, the regional committees and regional committees of the CPSU (b) based on these directives indications to the districts, the district committees of the CPSU (b), in turn, organized campaign events and monitored the press, based on the content of the instructions of the higher instances. The starting point in the organization of activities to inform the public about life abroad was the decisions of the party congresses and plenums, the directives of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b). In the Penza region in 1921-1940-ies. the main work on the management of the media was performed by Sponge and the City Committee of the CPSU (b). The Bureau of the Penza Regional Committee of the CPSU (b) heard reports on the work of district and regional newspapers at its meetings. All events concerning the coverage of events in the country and abroad were carried out by party organizations from the point of view of the next party congress. The international situation was given due attention during political campaigns (for example, devoted to the study of the Short Course of the CPSU (B.) Organized by the Agitation and Propaganda Departments of the Penza Regional Committee of the CPSU (B.) And the District Committee of the CPSU (B.). At the same time, it should be noted that foreign life was presented not only in the form of a dry statement of facts, it was presented by the employees of the Agitation and Propaganda Department from the point of view of political decisions of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.). The events of foreign reality were “explained” vym citizens in the light of the directives and decisions of the Central Committee [22].


Interestingly, along with ordinary newspapers, photographic newspapers were published already in the 20 of the twentieth century, which could be viewed as a very informative source for the then illiterate people. Photo newspaper "Labor Truth". No.7. 1-15 February 1928

So, analyzing the activities of the party organizations of the Penza region to inform the public about life abroad in 1920-1940-s, we can draw the following conclusions:

- in the early stages of the Soviet state in implementing the policy of informing citizens about life abroad - that is, when submitting comparative information, the informing function was performed, mostly, not by the media themselves, but by party workers who traveled to the village and the enterprises, as Firstly, the overwhelming majority of the population was illiterate, and newspaper articles were inaccessible to people, and secondly, due to the fact that at the beginning of its formation, the network of newspapers was in a state of crisis and could not fulfill its quality ktsiyu information.

- even in the most democratic period for the press 1921-1928-s. Soviet newspapers were not free in the coverage of foreign reality. Literally from the first years of the Soviet state, the mass media in informing about foreign events were forced to follow the decisions of the party leadership. That is, an increase in the critical mass of unreliable information was observed. It was impossible to give and conflicting information. And then in the same issue of Pravda, Tukhachevsky was a native of peasants, and three months after his arrest he became the son of a landowner!

- the following algorithm was developed in informing about facts of foreign reality by the structures of the CPSU (b): first, information about events outside the USSR was processed by the party leadership, and then presented to the collective farmers and workers in the right light, that is, to obtain reliable comparative information to its citizens is impossible. In principle, for protective purposes, it was even not bad. No comparison - no "bad thoughts." But it was bad that, for example, it was asserted that “the world revolution is close”, but for some reason it didn’t happen at all, that there was famine in the USA, but the revolution didn’t start there either, that “fascism in Germany helps the cause of the proletarian revolution” (!), but only there it did not begin again. At the same time, many Soviet citizens turned out to be in the West, and were in contact with Western specialists, and they saw something completely different there, naturally, this information also diverged, although through narrow sections of the population. Nevertheless, all this slowly but surely undermined the confidence of the masses in the information of the Soviet media. What it all led to in the end is well known.

Sources:
1.Grabelnikov A.A. Mass information in Russia: from the first newspaper to the information society: dis .... Dr. East. sciences. M., 2001. C. 73.
2. Guriev A. How the agitprop was tempered: The system of state ideological treatment of the population in the early years of the NEP. // [SPb.] 2010 g. URL: http://guryevandrey.narod.ru/Agitprop/6chapter.htm
3. Mitvol O.L. Formation and implementation of information policy in the USSR and the Russian Federation (1917-1999): dis .... Dr. East. sciences. M., 2004. C. 65.
4. On the relationship between party committees and newspaper editors. Annex to item No. 6 of the protocol No. 91 Meetings of the Organizing Bureau of the Central Committee of 2.2.1923. // GAPO (State Archive of the Penza Region). F.36. D.593. L.12.
5.GAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.384. L.30.
6.GAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.386. L.202.
7.GAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.384. L.28.
8.GAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.732. L.49, D.950, L.14.
9.GAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.1427. L.53.
10. HAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.389. L.24.
11. HAPO. F.37.Op.1. D.596. L.54.
12. Grabelnikov A.A. Mass information in Russia: from the first newspaper to the information society: dis .... Dr. East. sciences. M., 2001. C.73-74.
13. Ibid. L.74.
14. HAPO. F.37.Op.1. D.348. L.6.
15. HAPO. F.36.Op.1. D.411.L.12.
16. ГАПО. Ф.36.Оп.1.Д.593.Л.83.
17. ГАПО. Ф.36.Оп.1.Д.1653.Л.57.
18. ГАПО. Ф.148.Оп.1.Д.105.Л.73.
19. ГАПО. Ф36.Оп.1.Д.1727.Л.1.
20. The resolution on the report of the Penza P / Print Department of the Sponge Committee of the CPSU (b). HAPO. F.36.Opt.1.D.1162.L.176.
21.ГАПО. Ф.148.Оп.1.Д.291.Л.55, Л.58.
22.ГАПО. Ф.148.Оп.1.Д.105.Л.70.
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  1. Uncle lee 12 January 2017 06: 42 New
    • 12
    • 0
    +12
    Small lies give rise to large ones. Great lies give rise to unbelief. And unbelief breeds indifference and apathy.
    And there is not far from hatred.
    1. Vend 12 January 2017 11: 03 New
      • 6
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      +6
      No country in the world can do without propaganda. This is normal. It's not a lie.
      1. potroshenko 12 January 2017 12: 40 New
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        +2
        Quote: Wend
        No country in the world can do without propaganda.

        Rather, not a single ruling class can do without propaganda of the "electorate."
        1. Vend 12 January 2017 14: 52 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          Quote: potroshenko
          Quote: Wend
          No country in the world can do without propaganda.

          Rather, not a single ruling class can do without propaganda of the "electorate."

          And when in world history there was no ruling class?
          1. potroshenko 12 January 2017 15: 10 New
            • 1
            • 0
            +1
            Quote: Wend
            And when in world history there was no ruling class?

            Always was.
            I wanted to say that ordinary people can not give a damn about attempts to manipulate their opinions and actions.
    2. Cat
      Cat 12 January 2017 18: 46 New
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      +4
      I read the article!
      There were a few questions. Is the "national idea" so bad? Looking through the prism of almost a century, we can conclude that no! Then what should be the "idea" !? The whole state! Question?
      Meanwhile, the USSR, carrying out its propaganda, was solving many of the accompanying problems. The masses should be able to read propaganda, solve a problem, a company to combat illiteracy, create libraries, schools, labor schools, and vocational schools.
      And etc.
      Sincerely, Kitty.
  2. cap
    cap 12 January 2017 07: 31 New
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    +10
    What all this led to is generally known.

    This is from the article.
    What the complete lack of ideology led to is already visible. The communists have achieved a lot in the formation of the country and the education of patriots, since the 60s the "elite" has rotted from above and the people have absolutely nothing to do with it. The masses are either given leadership (I. Stalin) or not given (Gorbachev). The role of the individual in state-building cannot be understated. The fact that "the state is us" is pure utopia.
    It's my personal opinion. hi
    1. kalibr 12 January 2017 07: 51 New
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      You article G.V. Plekhanov "The role of the individual in history" read. She was not even given a course in the history of the CPSU in Soviet universities, but it was possible to find and read. Well, now the “Open Easter” is all. Complement your personal opinion.
      1. cap
        cap 12 January 2017 07: 54 New
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        Quote: kalibr
        You article G.V. Plekhanov "The role of the individual in history" read. She was not even given a course in the history of the CPSU in Soviet universities, but it was possible to find and read. Well, now the “Open Easter” is all. Complement your personal opinion.


        It is difficult to disagree with you. I will re-read it for sure. But I do not think that the meaning that I put in commenting on the text will completely coincide with the version of Plekhanov.
        P.S. So much time has passed since the revolution, almost a hundred years. Collectivization, industrialization, the Great Patriotic War, space exploration, the corn kingdom, perestroika, peace, friendship, chewing gum.
        Of course, I’m not Plekhanov, I just “hold on” (c), to say the least. hi
        1. kalibr 12 January 2017 08: 13 New
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          And I don’t try to convince you or convince you of something. Just the more you learn the richer you are. Just recently I wrote an article about ... a revolver. It seems to know a lot about him. But ... I found surprisingly interesting additions to the topic about which I had not read to anyone before. Everywhere the upper bar is 1892 for a year, and then it dropped to 1862 ... Agree that is interesting and instructive. Who knows what conclusions you will come to after this article. In any case, it will not be worse.
          1. cap
            cap 12 January 2017 08: 43 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            Agree this is both interesting and instructive. Who knows what conclusions you will come to after this article. In any case, it will not be worse.


            Once again I agree with you. Just a day of consent.
            I read this work in the library of my “bursa” from which I received the badge that you see on my “nick”. It happened a long time ago, or rather 35 years ago.
            I really like your presentation and style of presentation of material on weapons. I myself am not a collector, but Saiga 410 warms my soul to this day. Since 17 years in uniform. You perfectly understand what I mean by personality + ideology. I have a steady state of readiness to speak to defend the homeland, brought up by a happy childhood, youth in uniform and family with grandchildren. What is sad is happening with the younger generation left to the mercy of corporations. I would wish my grandchildren my Soviet childhood, with Artek and the Pioneer Palaces in every Russian city.
            That something like this. hi
            1. Gerard Roussillon 12 January 2017 10: 33 New
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              I would wish my grandchildren my Soviet childhood, with Artek and the Palaces of Pioneers in every Russian city.

              Do they need it? Try to tear off grandchildren from the computer and children from Czech beer, you will learn a lot of interesting things about Artek and about the scoop. We have all the children playing the piano. Useful? And how many torments were there
              1. cap
                cap 12 January 2017 10: 44 New
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                Alexander! I play the “Pionine” without any agony. It came in handy. My daughter plays the instruments, sings, but in my time it was all achievable is free hi You do not understand, but maybe not.
                1. Gerard Roussillon 12 January 2017 11: 13 New
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                  but in my time all this was achievable for free
                  There was nothing free. If you were given something, it means that they were underpaid to someone, they took it from someone and gave you. You just got closer to the feeder.
                  Now, if you are more active, and you have more opportunities, you are not dependent on those who are engaged in distribution.
                  1. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 11: 29 New
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                    Gerard of Roussillon, you are another victim of EG along the way! There was free education, medicine, free trips and apartments! And whoever wanted it worked and earned money!
                    1. Gerard Roussillon 12 January 2017 15: 35 New
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                      there was free education, medicine, free trips and apartments!

                      That is, apartments were built and tickets were bought incomprehensibly for what miraculously money came out of nowhere. I will disappoint you. Initially, this money was withdrawn from the same people, redistributing it to certain funds, and only the executive committee or party committee managed the funds at its own discretion. When my mother-in-law, who lived in a barracks and stood up for more than a year in line, came to sort out the executive committee, the local chairman said, "I have a daughter without an apartment," bearing in mind that at first he will provide his numerous relatives with huts. That's how they "gave" the apartment. And the mother-in-law went for truth to Moscow. All classrooms and checks passed there. And I got the same with a big creak. The rest still live in barracks, that was such a "justice".
                    2. JS20 12 January 2017 23: 58 New
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                      Quote: Uncle Murzik
                      there was free education, medicine, free trips and apartments

                      The apartments were rented. At the state. We worked, we were underpaid, then we built apartments for ourselves. And they handed them over to us.
                      Get out of business.
                      Such an education, which was in the USSR, it was not worth a penny. And under Dzhugashvili, even in high school, and contrary to the Constitution, it was paid.
                      By the way, teachers were also kept on our hard-earned money.
                      Just like doctors. By the way, the elite did not use our “free medicine”. She had her own "free medicine." Not at all our level.
                      Here it should be noted that due to the "baseboard" level of education in the USSR, "free medicine" was about the same level.
                      "Free trips" is also a joke. Our money built themselves health resorts. And then, the right people for not very expensive sold packages. And the wrong people were not sold. Therefore, the wrong people bought these tickets from the right people at a high price. That was such a business.
                      Here, enjoy the flagship position in the international ranking of universities for 2016. (188-189 place). What kind of universities, from which countries there is no higher than him.

                      Quote: Uncle Murzik
                      another victim of the EG!

                      "Victims of the exam" may be at least something to know. Unlike the victims of "Soviet education."
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. cap
                    cap 12 January 2017 11: 49 New
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                    Quote: Gerard of Roussillon
                    There was nothing free. If you were given something, it means that they were underpaid to someone, they took it from someone and gave you. You just got closer to the feeder.


                    Of course there was a feeder. Where without it. Dad is a locksmith (while I was in music school), my mother is a secretary. A repressed grandfather (where without him, "twice cavalier George" according to the NKVD protocol) and grandmother without pension (enemy of the people), and for all the disgrace 5 rubles a month , with a salary of only a father of 120 rubles, and a mother of 90 rubles of the pension of my grandfather (for the Second World War) 40 rubles. Turn on the brain and tell me why I love Soviet power. A loaf of bread (white) cost 20 kopecks. hi I conclude one, you did not live a conscious life in the USSR. Yes ! to the above, the sense from you in the country, if you live in it (big question) will not be any. hi
                    1. Gerard Roussillon 12 January 2017 15: 40 New
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                      .Turn on the brain and tell me why I love Soviet power. A loaf of bread (white) cost 20 kopecks

                      For what, really. For interrupting from bread to water?
                    2. JS20 13 January 2017 00: 13 New
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                      Quote: cap
                      and for all the disgrace of 5 rubles a month, with a salary of only a father of 120 rubles, and a mother of 90 rubles, the pension of my grandfather (for WWII) 40 rubles. Turn on the brain and tell me why I love Soviet power. A loaf of bread (white) cost 20 kopecks . hi I conclude one, you did not live a conscious life in the USSR. Yes ! to the above, the sense from you in the country, if you live in it (big question) will not be any.

                      1. You forget that it was NOT YOUR property. And for the "crooked behavior" you would be asked of these choirs with the help of a knee. At 24 o’clock.
                      2. 120 rubles in this is about 22500 now. 90 rubles - 16900 rubles, 40 rubles - 7500 rubles.
                      If you look at the "basket", and not just for some products.
                      Not so thick.
                      3. 20 kopecks is 37,5 rubles. Not so cheap.
                      In addition, you forget that the USSR lived so well for a very short time, during the first jump in oil prices, about 15 years.

                      Up to this point, the population of the USSR was starving, but you probably did not find this.
                  3. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 00: 39 New
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                    In the USSR, there were free opportunities to learn everything from everyone, talented and capable of helping separately, and now only those who have money have such opportunities.
                    1. Gerard Roussillon 13 January 2017 08: 36 New
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                      and now only those who have money have such opportunities.
                      And now there are any training computer programs, any books that you can simply download for free, and study for health.
                      1. ruskih 13 January 2017 09: 43 New
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                        It is good if a person himself can study under the training program, but unfortunately for many this is not given by nature. Only live communication teacher - student.
                      2. JS20 13 January 2017 12: 22 New
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                        Quote: ruskih
                        but unfortunately for many this is not given by nature. Only live communication teacher - student.

                        There will be no sense from such a "student". It’s not worth it to learn. In addition to some specific areas.
                      3. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 20: 40 New
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                        And what will your computer programs teach? Good, love for people, for the living world, understanding of the Motherland comes only through a real teacher.
                    2. JS20 13 January 2017 12: 20 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      In the USSR, everyone had free opportunities to learn everything

                      I have a simple question, who in the USSR could teach “everything”? From where among a bunch of academicians and I am not afraid of this word, members (correspondents), as well as professors, would there be such people who could teach something?
                      The degradation of education is such a process when there are no mentors either. But in the USSR, with its closeness and isolation from world science, everything was just that. In all areas, "cooked in their own and already very stale juice." With known deplorable results.
                      It’s good that the Germans, contract soldiers, after the war learned something and did a good bunch of products for the USSR. But that was back in the 40s. And this hurt for a long time was not enough.
                      1. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 20: 42 New
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                        Colleague, let's not talk about the degradation of education in the USSR ... Oh, how it has degraded today !!! Do not compare with anything.
                      2. JS20 14 January 2017 00: 27 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Good, love for people, for the living world, understanding of the Motherland

                        This is collectively called bullshit. Together with the "understanding of the homeland."
                      3. JS20 14 January 2017 00: 29 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Oh, how it degraded today

                        And where does "today"? We are talking about the blatant degradation of education under the Bolsheviks. Why translate tracks?
                2. Cat
                  Cat 12 January 2017 11: 53 New
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                  I was apparently born later, I graduated from a music school in the accordion class! wassat
                  According to mother, "learn to play Vladik. If you go to the army, you will get muzrot. Better than to run with a gun." crying
                  5 years in the morning or in the evening through Kabatskaya mountain back and forth. Has Vladik become an accordion player? wink
                  "SHISH YOU" !!!
                  Vladik became a lieutenant colonel of the internal service, with a collection of button accordions and accordions on the shelf behind the fireplace! soldier
                  I am grateful to the music school, in one I helped to develop incredible ability to work and self-discipline. + the opportunity to "fuck" the swearing "mommy" (ditties) at the holiday! yes
                  R.s. this pleasure to my family cost 25 rubles a month.
                  1. cap
                    cap 12 January 2017 12: 16 New
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                    Quote: Kotischa
                    I was apparently born later, I graduated from a music school in the accordion class! wassat
                    According to mother, "learn to play Vladik. If you go to the army, you will get muzrot. Better than to run with a gun." crying
                    5 years in the morning or in the evening through Kabatskaya mountain back and forth. Has Vladik become an accordion player? wink
                    "SHISH YOU" !!!
                    Vladik became a lieutenant colonel of the internal service, with a collection of button accordions and accordions on the shelf behind the fireplace! soldier
                    I am grateful to the music school, in one I helped to develop incredible ability to work and self-discipline. + the opportunity to "fuck" the swearing "mommy" (ditties) at the holiday! yes
                    R.s. this pleasure to my family cost 25 rubles a month.


                    Vladislav just for the company drinks
              2. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 11: 16 New
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                Yes, achievements to drink Czech beer, it would be better if they would go in for sports as during the USSR! And by the way, beer was an order of magnitude better than now basically one chemistry!
                1. Gerard Roussillon 13 January 2017 08: 39 New
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                  ! And by the way, beer was an order of magnitude better than now basically one chemistry!

                  Drink the living. 3 times more expensive but you can find a good one
                  All kinds of sports clubs now, dear mom! You can even ride a horse
                2. JS20 14 January 2017 17: 41 New
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                  Quote: Uncle Murzik
                  and by the way, beer was an order of magnitude better than now basically one chemistry!

                  Drink Belgian. Do not lose.
            2. kalibr 12 January 2017 12: 45 New
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              Quote: cap
              The sad thing is happening now with the younger generation, left to the mercy of corporations.

              But you know, they are not so miserable! All the time since 1982 I have been working with students, sometimes with children ... and like you many, very many had a happy childhood (and there are!). And why do not they love their country in which they have "everything" or almost everything. It is clear that there are no yachts like Abramovich’s, but you didn’t have one in the USSR either. And so ... There are cars of our students - there are many of them. A lot of people go abroad to work and live happily ever after. And they are all happy, or almost everything. So no need for today's youth with high. Each era has its own world, its own merits, its own shortcomings, its own happiness. And the pioneer palaces ... they now stand and are full of children and many circles are free. And for the "music" in the USSR had to pay. I paid for my daughter, for example, for a music school.
              1. cap
                cap 12 January 2017 12: 59 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: cap
                The sad thing is happening now with the younger generation, left to the mercy of corporations.

                But you know, they are not so miserable! All the time since 1982 I have been working with students, sometimes with children ... and like you many, very many had a happy childhood (and there are!). And why do not they love their country in which they have "everything" or almost everything. It is clear that there are no yachts like Abramovich’s, but you didn’t have one in the USSR either. And so ... There are cars of our students - there are many of them. A lot of people go abroad to work and live happily ever after. And they are all happy, or almost everything. So no need for today's youth with high. Each era has its own world, its own merits, its own shortcomings, its own happiness. And the pioneer palaces ... they now stand and are full of children and many circles are free. And for the "music" in the USSR had to pay. I paid for my daughter, for example, for a music school.


                You really pleased me. You won’t argue the calculations. Well -.... wait and see hi The story, although female, was never a prostitute.
                Just as it was not a science.
                1. kalibr 12 January 2017 17: 05 New
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                  Just returned from an exam, where he spoke about our dialogue. Immediately my studios climbed into iPhones, began to read you, read me. “Mom told me that everything was better!”, “My dad is cursing now ...”, “And we have a quiet horror about that time! Mom went in darned tights” ... And this is only part of the statements. .. Further, "There is no money - go to America to wash the floors!", "Lumberjack to Canada, since you can’t be here!", "They, that is, old - children of their age, cannot understand today! (Excuse V.O., "This does not apply to you, but there are many!)!" - This is the second stream of answers. Third: "Socialism -
                  then now! From each according to his abilities, to each according to his work! ". These are the most indicative ... He asked:" Someone feels unhappy! "In response, a friendly laugh. Here is the youth. Student. So what about the trees above and the apples are sweeter - that's right And more about morality ... when it’s not worth it, morality is always at its best! Everything is in American jeans, a casual style, with you bottles of yogurt, apples ... “this is health.” So ... they live well, not bad !
        2. captain 12 January 2017 13: 37 New
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          It’s a pity that there was no CPSU during the time of the Batu invasion.
          1. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 00: 43 New
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            In the days of Batu there was an Orthodox church, but it did not cope with the task of unification. But the CPSU (b) during the invasion of Hitler managed. It says something ...
            1. Gerard Roussillon 13 January 2017 08: 46 New
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              But the CPSU (b) during the invasion of Hitler managed

              One more such VKP b and nothing will remain of the people. Commissars ran ahead of their regiments
              1. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 20: 48 New
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                Don’t whistle my friend. Look on the Internet for information on the commissioners who died during the war. Division, corps, brigade, regimental, battalion commissars, political officers of all levels did not surrender. Read, it’s written for each: he shot himself, died in battle, died of wounds.
                1. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 00: 07 New
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                  Quote: Gerard of Roussillon
                  Commissars ran ahead of their regiments

                  To not be unfounded, click on the link
                  http://www.rkka.ru/ihandbook.htm
                  there is a martyrologist for 96 brigade commissars. Maybe after that you will be ashamed of your words.
                2. JS20 14 January 2017 00: 39 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Division, corps, brigade, regimental, battalion commissars, political officers of all levels did not surrender.

                  The head of the organizational and propaganda department of the Russian People's National Army (RNNA) was the former brigade commissar of the Red Army Zhilenkov G.N. Hanged in the courtyard of the Butyrka prison.
                  1. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 16: 18 New
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                    Quote: JS20
                    The head of the organizational and propaganda department of the Russian People's National Army (RNNA) was the former brigade commissar of the Red Army Zhilenkov G.N. Hanged in the courtyard of the Butyrka prison.

                    Every family has its black sheep. Unfortunately, they did not clean it up in 1937-38.
                    1. JS20 14 January 2017 17: 54 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Every family has its black sheep. Unfortunately, they did not clean it up in 1937-38.

                      That still was a "family". Bolshevik. Already something, but there were enough freaks there.
                      1. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 18: 24 New
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                        Thank god you left.
                      2. JS20 14 January 2017 23: 42 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Thank god you left.

                        I actually Ukraine to the bulb. But she was clearly out of luck with you. Given your "cave worldview."
                      3. kalibr 17 January 2017 16: 05 New
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                        Let us take an interest in what an interesting subject they found in the fiery revolutionary and communist Yagoda, and about Yezhov’s male inclinations. Something a lot like the top turned out to be ...
  3. parusnik 12 January 2017 08: 05 New
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    It was like that .. Like there was a continuous democracy in Europe .. during this period .. During this period from 1921-1940 fascist and pro-fascist dictatorships were established in many countries and there was no ice with freedom of the press ..
    At the same time, many Soviet citizens found themselves in the West, and were in contact with Western experts, and saw something completely different there.
    ..Aha they drove along the working quarters, showed a happy wrong side of life .. wink
    1. kalibr 12 January 2017 08: 16 New
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      That is exactly what they saw not the workers' quarters (where, incidentally, it was not so bad), but a completely different life and ... they spoke in their circle not at all about workers! You don’t know how people like to use the slightest advantage over others. Do not feed bread. It is a pity that you yourself cannot read the very truthful feuilleton and in general the materials of our newspapers.
      1. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 00: 50 New
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        Yes, today the dream is not to work, and some have come true happily, and they live very luxuriously, "like in the West." Only for some reason this was not possible for everyone, the majority of the population of the former republics of the USSR have to work hard for pennies. And they have no time for fat - to be alive.
        1. kalibr 15 January 2017 09: 32 New
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          But EVERYTHING is necessary, right? Other spit is not worth it, but they ... like me? This is with what joy? No - "Indian hut like that!" Lot of losers, you know. The fate of those who keep up not with time, but against it.
          1. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 16: 09 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            But EVERYTHING is necessary, right? Other spit is not worth it, but they ... like me? This is with what joy? No - "Indian hut like that!"


            Not equally, but according to work. And, colleague, don't you value yourself too much?
            1. kalibr 15 January 2017 19: 37 New
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              "It’s not enough to know one’s own worth. It must be given to you!" Good rule, right? So they gave me. Therefore, I appreciate it!
              1. Alexander Greene 16 January 2017 20: 58 New
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                How much did you buy?
                1. kalibr 17 January 2017 16: 01 New
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                  Go to the RHF site - look, type in Google - "all the books of Shpakovsky V.O." Maybe understanding will come.
                  1. Alexander Greene 18 January 2017 00: 00 New
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                    Thanks, I looked. Unfortunately, I did not understand your position from the annotations, but I can say one thing: some names, such as “If Hitler had taken Moscow,” are alarming and cause unpleasant emotions. I managed to fully get acquainted only with the book about homemade products. The thing is worth it. So they would continue to work in the same spirit. Why did you start supporting trolls? What offended you the Soviet government?
  4. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 08: 43 New
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    Another example of "historical work". The man made DISCOVERY! Soviet newspapers were not free. Of course it was. Newspapers, like any media, cannot be free in principle. About freedom of speech - these are fairy tales for hamsters. And about the lack of censorship - too. It just changes shape, depending on the situation.
    What the current media is "free" from is some kind of moral and ethical brakes. End justifies the means. The rest is completely dependent on the owner. Here, in the framework of achieving the goal for which the owner contains at least a yellow newspaper, at least a glossy magazine, at least a radio station, television channel, they are free. And no more. So what is the difference? And what is the progress. In that stream of turbidity that pours from the media? By the way, historical turbidity, too.
    Regarding the author of this scientific discovery, I want to say that she is a happy person. Engage in such "historical research", and even get money for it ... What can I say.
    1. kalibr 12 January 2017 09: 17 New
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      Victor, you wrote without thinking. Freedom of freedom is strife. It is about the party’s open control over the press. Proclaimed! That is, whoever controls what is responsible for that ... to the people. Not newspapers, it turns out they lie, but the party lies through newspapers! That was a mistake. You can control the media ... in different ways. Here a stream of turbidity pours ... and the president shrugs his hands. We have freedom of speech! Well, in the end, the result is 91 year! "About freedom of speech - these are fairy tales for hamsters." By the way, the article has this. You just hurried to read and "print." Do not learn from Murzik, Victor, this does not suit you. And again ... do not write without knowing. Associate professor for research does not get anything. Only for hours.
      1. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 09: 59 New
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        Okay, suppose I'm wrong. What is the idea of ​​the article then. To show with a historical example what lies through newspapers lead to and warn against repeating mistakes, since modern corrupt media and their owners follow the same vicious path and contribute to the regression of society, which will lead to collapse?
        If so, I will immediately disavow my comment and apologize.
        1. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 10: 29 New
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          Dekabrist, the main thing you do not learn from the little warrior Shpakovsky more than once caught in frank fantasies! Along the way, the warrior took a female pseudonym!
          1. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 10: 41 New
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            Not learning what? To be caught or fantasies?
            1. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 10: 57 New
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              Dekabrist caught in a lie! Nikolay S. recently stumbled a glory at the lack of sources! I stumbled on him in a delusional article "drug addiction in the USSR in 20-30g," so I did not see sources except verbal diarrhea! hi
              1. kalibr 12 January 2017 12: 00 New
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                Did the cowardly Murzik draw himself? Why are you so cowardly, huh?
                I ask - introduce yourself in PM, it is decent when you communicate with a person. Silence!
                I ask where I was in 91-93, from which dugout of the partisan detachment "Glory to Stalin!" scribbling? Silence!

                I ask, do you blame the plagiarism of strangers to you? Silence!

                Why are you so afraid of me that the testicles are ringing? You understand that all people read it. And they conclude that cowardly people defend this outdated system, very cowardly. And about sources about drug addiction, I'm tired of poking you nose. Open the article about drunkenness in the 20-th years link number16. Everyone who reads this can find this article through a search engine, find a footnote by number and read.

                So that you do not work, and no one else: 16. See more details: Sholomovich S.A. Countdown on the dispensary fight against narcotism in Moscow // Questions of history. Issue 1. M., 1926, C.71-86 .; Belousova M.T. Cocainism based on forensic psychiatric examination // Crime and crime. Issue 1. M., 1926 year. C.99. In the same work Belousova M.T. indicates that among cocainists, the proportion of workers in the mid-20s was 10,7%. In the same place. C.98). Is that what you did not manage to find?

                Now it’s like this: at a university, even “techies” are usually taught logic. The debate is this: the thesis is the antithesis.

                Accordingly: evidence is counter-proof.

                You see my evidence. Everyone sees them! Where are yours? You "academies" did not finish? Well, it's not too late to learn now! But what about your evidence?

                Do you understand what people will draw conclusions about you?

                It is clear that with the security guard, by whom did you introduce yourself in PM what demand, but still ...
                1. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 14: 45 New
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                  I consider communicating with you below my dignity! but here you are again lying, here is an excerpt from the work of MT Belousov Cocainism based on forensic psychiatric examination // Crime and crime. Issue 1. M., 1926. S.99 Belousova M.T. The spread of morphine consumption was largely due to world and civil wars. The closer the syringe and morphine was at hand, the easier it became to become a morphist. The more morphinists surrounded, the easier it was to become. The medical and military professions during the study period were especially favored. For example, according to the Military Medical Academy (where civilians were freely admitted), of the 42 patients who passed through the clinic in 1919-1922, there were 5 women and 37 men. Of these: doctors - 6, nurses - 2, paramedics - 11, nurse - 1, medical students - 4, doctor’s wife - 1, officers - 8, sailors - 4, soldier - 9, agronomist - 1, lawyer - 1. That is, we see that more than half of the morphinists were from the medical environment. As Dr. V.A. wrote Gorovoy-Shaltan: "From at least a dozen medical institutions that I had to work in during the war years and lately, I do not remember a single one where I would not encounter staff morphists." He described the following case. An officer from the front went to the infirmary, where out of 6 nurses 4 were morphists "for three years, 42 people, so what kind of addiction are there any problems? I don’t know why you mislead people again only in your fantasies! But as a pensioner under the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the work of a security guard I'm quite happy! lol
                2. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 15: 03 New
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                  . "In the same work, Belousova MT points out that among the cocainists the share of workers in the mid-20s was 10,7%, that is, every 10th addict was a drug addict" YOU are lying and manipulating again! And how many cocainists were in Russia ? "The number of users was impressive. In the same place, in Penza, in a psychiatric hospital in 1922, 11 men and three women were taken for treatment, all morphinists were“ experienced. "They got to the hospital in an extremely serious condition, many died there. in particular, these three women died. "Well, for 100000 Penza there were 11 drug addicts in 1922, and in 1923 there were a lot of six! and it gives Mr. Shpakovsky to judge the whole multi-million dollar country!" Well, there must be one worker for 11 people! laughing
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                  2. kalibr 12 January 2017 17: 36 New
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                    Well, at least something I got from Murzilka. I thought people in the Ministry of Internal Affairs should be braver. But if we already started a professional conversation, then this is a photocopy of the dissertation, where all this came from.

                    "Well, then on 11 the person apparently had one worker!" - Yes! But this is according to Penza, who entered a psychiatric hospital in one year! And these are morphinists with experience and among them 1 worker. And how many haven’t arrived, like the same Vertinsky? How much cocaine tried, "dabbled", consumed "secretly" and not only cocaine and not necessarily morphine. Didn’t get to the nuthouse? So the numbers are really big ... Otherwise, they wouldn’t have introduced vodka!
                    1. Mikado 12 January 2017 21: 13 New
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                      Bravo, Author, Your party has moved to a new level! laughing now both sides are seriously working on the links! So it is not far from a philosophical argument!
                      Vertinsky during the WWII wrote something like: “Cocaine replaced alcohol. At first it was sold pure, then mixed in half with tooth powder ..” An interesting time was among the “bohemians” during the ban on alcohol!
                      1. kalibr 12 January 2017 21: 22 New
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                        So you have to involuntarily! Starting to work on the site, I saw what materials are published here. These are purely journalistic materials compiled on 100%, and without links. That is, their value was in who wrote with what syllable, and from where "kicked". At best, someone called see a website on the Internet. A couple of times I gave links to sources when the articles really concerned research. Links take away a place. And none of the readers of the site will search for them. You still say - will make a request to the archive. And he will receive the bill, after which his wife will kill! Yes, and no one is looking. The Internet is the only place. But if a person wants ... why not.
                    2. Alexander Greene 13 January 2017 00: 58 New
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                      It would be interesting to know the year of defense of the dissertation and the list of references on which the author of this work relied. In my opinion this is an ordinary order of the destroyers of the USSR.
                      1. kalibr 13 January 2017 20: 50 New
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                        Year 2002. The USSR has already been destroyed! List of pieces of literature in the copy page below. If you read all this, it will be enough!
                    3. Uncle Murzik 13 January 2017 05: 43 New
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                      kalibr here is my friend, even by your reference there were few cases of drug addiction, in fact there was no problem with drug addiction! there was a worker in Vertinsky! belay that you drove on the priest, how much did you use quietly? you write with facts and not with assumptions!
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        2. kalibr 12 January 2017 11: 54 New
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          And here with great difficulty, but a page with a link was inserted. You have to trick like that. One comment is not "hung up". This is not for you, Victor.

          Yes exactly. We are now largely stepping on the same rake.
          Quote: Dekabrist
          since modern corrupt media and their owners go the same vicious way and contribute to the regression of society, which will lead to collapse

          Again you can’t say better!
          1. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 12: 28 New
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            Well, if so, follow Byron’s advice and not Balzac’s and admit the mistake. The attempt, even timid and deeply conspiratorial, to nail modern "acrobats of rotary machines" to the pillory is worth it.
            1. kalibr 12 January 2017 12: 50 New
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              Thank you, although this is not important, as you yourself understand. My monograph, Poisoned Feather. Journalists of Pre-Revolutionary Russia against Russia, Journalists of the USSR against the USSR, has been prepared with her, and it will show on a vast amount of factual material how journalists destroyed ... their country with the best of goals. Perhaps this is the result of a state of mind or something else ... So she will either come out or go in parts here. In any case, I will try to get as many people as possible acquainted with its content. Stop stepping on the same rake.
          2. Uncle Murzik 13 January 2017 05: 51 New
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            kalibr Well, what do these links say? you distort again! that in Russia there were a tiny number of people who used drugs, among the intelligentsia and bohemians! and the problems with drug addiction are only in your dreams and fantasies! fool
            1. kalibr 13 January 2017 11: 21 New
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              Give the total number of cocainists in Russia for the 1926 year, (as well as anashists, heroinists, morphinists), and then we will see how "few" there were! Every 10 cocainist was a worker !!!! There it is highlighted in red for you specially!
  5. Uncle Murzik 12 January 2017 10: 50 New
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    propaganda has always been and will be at least in the west, at least in the east, at least in the USA, at least in RUSSIA! you can remember how many lies fly to Russia since the time of Ivan the Terrible! there is nothing about this article !!!!!!
  6. iury.vorgul 12 January 2017 10: 54 New
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    And then in one issue of Pravda, Tukhachevsky was a native of peasants, and three months after his arrest he became the son of a landowner!
    But they did not lie in anything. Indeed, Tukhachevsky’s father is a landowner, his mother is a peasant.
  7. bbss 12 January 2017 11: 26 New
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    And at least a controlled press. In my opinion, our press suffered greatly from the need to publish in large volumes materials on party life.
  8. Mikado 12 January 2017 12: 13 New
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    Nevertheless, all this slowly but surely undermined the confidence of the masses in the information of the Soviet media.

    nevertheless, it was not so much information about the West that undermined, but more likely, the very dissonance about Soviet life between what was reported and reality at the stage of the late USSR. This has always been the case in all countries. At the time of Napoleon, the French had a saying: "Lies like a newsletter," named after Napoleon’s news reports.
    The article shows well the stage of formation of the local press. Even sending people to spend “information hours” in villages is a big deal. You can relate differently to the Communist Party, but the fact that it has undergone enormous diverse work to improve the educational level, improve working conditions and even sanitary conditions throughout the country is certain. For the first time I learned about washing points. hi
    as you see, Poland was then considered the main shock force of imperialism, as if it really had the power to attack the USSR

    had. Before Hitler came to power, the Polish army was much stronger than the German. Before the construction of our armed forces began during the first five-year plan, the Polish army was also a serious adversary. In any case, the ruling Polish circles were the most aggressive towards the USSR from all countries (also Finland), and Poland could be a kind of “detonator” of the war, in which a coalition could form on its side against the USSR. Unfortunately, we had few friends in the 20s; Germany was the most loyal to us.
  9. vladimirvn 12 January 2017 12: 33 New
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    An article as a textbook for narrow specialists-political strategists. What is she here for? Anyone who has visited a meat factory does not eat sausage.
  10. kalibr 12 January 2017 13: 09 New
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    Quote: Mikado
    the Polish army was much stronger than the German

    But the economy is weaker than the Soviet one. Human resources, yes ... And the memory was alive, as the 1-th horse was at Warsaw ...
    So ... rotten it would have been a fuse ha ha!
    1. Mikado 12 January 2017 13: 33 New
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      but the Polish ambition would be enough to set it on fire! wink
      Shirokorad wrote that even some Finnish figures (I did not check this information) raved "Great Finland to the Urals." And the calculation, it seems to me, was, in many ways, banal - in the event of war, all of Europe with us. In principle, during the Finnish war, Europe really helped them - weapons, equipment, volunteers.
      In principle, the same scenario could well be with Poland. Why not?
      1. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 14: 17 New
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        Despite the fact that Shirokorada can be attributed to historians with a big stretch, very large, he did not lie here.
        There was such an idea - the unification of close Finno-Ugric peoples living along the coast of the Baltic Sea, East Karelia, Ingermanland, in the territories of northern Norway and Sweden; a radical form of panfinlanism. The idea has been debated among Finnish irredentists since the 19th century and expressed the Finnish version of European nationalism (panfinlanism) even when Finland was territorially part of the Russian Empire.
        This idea is quite common. Greater Poland, Romania, Armenia, Greater Serbia, Pan-Turkism, Ukraine to the Caucasus, even Albania, and that to the great bridges. And now these ideas roam in the minds of the inflamed.
        1. Mikado 12 January 2017 14: 38 New
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          There was such an idea - the unification of close Finno-Ugric peoples living along the coast of the Baltic Sea, East Karelia, Ingermanland, in the territories of northern Norway and Sweden; a radical form of panfinlanism.

          Congresses of Finno-Ugric peoples are still held in St. Petersburg; at the end of last March, he himself brought up three participants from Kingisepp to Ivangorod - students from Estonia. In Karelia in the early 2000s (now I don’t know) there were also public organizations, it seems, they helped even with moving to Finland.
          And now these ideas roam in the minds of the inflamed.

          Yes. Every outsider country dreams of past or imaginary greatness.
          1. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 15: 52 New
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            The term "outsider" is hardly suitable here. After all, I have cited not all as an example. Oddly enough, in India the Mughal empire was not forgotten, in Japan many people remember the idea of ​​"a sphere of joint Asian prosperity." Brazil, some Brazilians see the heiress of the imperial mantle of Portugal, Iran marks the regional leaders.
            Well, where without the USA, which is actually building a system of neo-feudal dependence.
            “Empires never die, unless their foundations are uprooted and sprinkled with salt. Their spirit lives in many generations of both the descendants of the dominant and subordinate peoples. "They are ready to revive again at the first opportunity, as soon as the geopolitical pressure on them weakens, and the orders proclaimed eternal will be fragile and dilapidated." This is the Italian geopolitical magazine Limes.
            Well, not to mention Britain, France and Russia would be unfair.
            And you say "outsiders."
            1. Mikado 12 January 2017 16: 06 New
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              I admit, got excited. It’s just that the examples of outsider claims cited by you in the message above caught my eye (I immediately recall “Poland from mozh to mozh”). Farce and sloppiness always rushes more hi
  11. ruskih 12 January 2017 16: 40 New
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    More and more often I come across the fact that our historians do not pay attention to the psychology of people at different time intervals, I'm not talking about the era. The worldview of people is changing - ideologies are changing. Each time period has its own prevailing public mood, or perhaps the spirit of the time, uniting completely different people for a specific purpose. Even in this article, the author does not take this into account, it turned out to be a little one-sided, i.e. assessment from the perspective of today's psychology, and at that time the attitude was different, therefore the information was presented and perceived differently. We have already gotten used to critically evaluating any information, since we now have enough sources.
    1. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 17: 58 New
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      Today, I would not speak so confidently about the prevalence of a “critical assessment of information”. There are many examples of this, even on the site. I would say that the problem of the lack of a critical assessment of information is already visible.
      1. ruskih 12 January 2017 18: 42 New
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        I partially agree with you, I am not talking about the prevalence of a critical assessment. On our site, simply many stopped writing, getting an undeserved bucket of slop in response to anyone is unpleasant, do they need it? And there were very interesting and sensible comments. Therefore, everything is relative.
        1. Mikado 12 January 2017 21: 01 New
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          Many of the old-timers say the site has become "not the same." What can you do, the popularity is followed by an influx of new users, the quality is falling. Many are frankly incontinent, but to blurt out anyhow what a jingo-patriotic and get their advantages .. And there are such ones - on the main branch, in the news, mainly around Ukraine - there is the greatest influx. The smallest part of site visitors gets to the "history" section. I realized for myself that it’s better to track a couple of articles than to discuss each news from the madhouse with foam at the mouth. Plus, certain good company is selected for certain articles! drinks
          1. ruskih 12 January 2017 22: 00 New
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            As for a good company, I absolutely agree drinks And if it starts to slowly increase, I’m only for good
            1. Uncle Murzik 13 January 2017 05: 58 New
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              "I am tormented by vague doubts" the same faces belay it's time for you to organize a corner for quiet games with the "historian" Shpakovsky lol
              1. ruskih 13 January 2017 10: 10 New
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                Good morning, dear (I do not know your name). Your face, too, from "" I am tormented by vague doubts "are the same faces." Personally for you. We are different people, our opinions may not coincide, and views on many things do not coincide, with the same Vyacheslav Olegovich, BUT you can communicate without receiving insults in response. I really value competent comments, even to this article, how much new information to think about and to search, and to articles about Japan, which are informative and interesting, lively comments. Well, I don’t have such an opportunity to travel now, but people with great life experience are going to gather here I am very interested to read their comments. There really is a "Quiet Corner", Want to be a bully - yes please, but the lout I do not accept. It is your right to be who.
              2. Mikado 13 January 2017 10: 31 New
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                Murzik, according to you, you can defend a candidate for conflict resolution. The emergence of the conflict, its course, your "rich inner world", spilling over us .. In general, a separate article. Only in the magazine "Around the laughter." To make others laugh is your right.
                1. kalibr 13 January 2017 11: 26 New
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                  Do you know that one of my master students (or maybe not one, this one even said out loud!) Consider Murzilkkin my virtual clone created for advertising. Well, it can’t be, he says, a normal person is so stupid. I him - it’s impossible, according to the rules of the site. And he told me, "the rules can be circumvented." I had to explain for a long time that PRmen has no right to break the rules!
                  1. Mikado 13 January 2017 11: 28 New
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                    Murzik - your alter ego? belay Jekyll and Hyde? laughing I, too, already catch myself thinking that something is unclean good
                  2. Dekabrist 13 January 2017 22: 51 New
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                    I tried to circumvent the site rules. I asked one friend how he relates to hiking. And to me - a warning for insulting. All-round defense!
  12. Alexey RA 12 January 2017 17: 52 New
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    The biggest problem of Soviet pre-war propaganda is not just isolation, but the exact opposite of the strategy for the future big war. The whole country is preparing for a long, hard and bloody defensive war of attrition ("strategy of starvation"), and from all the irons pouring "And on enemy land we will defeat the enemy with little blood, a mighty blow!"
    After all, it came to schizophrenia: NPO Voroshilov from the rostrum spoke about the rapid defeat of the enemy on its territory, and after that in his office he signed an order to expand the list of areas subject to evacuation in the event of a war.
    And the worst thing happened when those who prepared the country for war began to believe in this propaganda. Then, for example, provisions appeared in the Battle Charter that shocked even the Political Administration of the Red Army:
    Strategies and tactics are virtually neglected by these laws. Organized retreat, organized retreat in certain areas began to be considered a shame. The infantry combat charter directly directs the commanders to meaningless casualties, indicating that “no losses can force the company to stop performing the combat mission, even if only a few people remain in it” (BUP-40, part II, p. 7).

    Obviously, the theory of indiscriminate offensives must be resolutely and quickly put to an end, because it leads to arrogance, cap-hatred and one-sidedness in the preparation of the army.

    This is a quote from the notorious Report of the Chief of the Political Administration of the Red Army L.3. Mehlis on military ideology. Lev Zakharovich then generally burned with the verb:
    The main reasons for these negative points, of course, are:
    1) The low military culture of the army personnel and the ensuing distorted view of the nature of modern warfare and a misunderstanding of Soviet military doctrine.
    2) False attitudes in education and propaganda in the Red Army (slogans: invincibility of the Red Army; army of heroes; country of heroes and country of patriots; theory of the absolute technical superiority of the Red Army, incorrect coverage of international tasks, etc.).
    3) The weakness of military scientific work in the army and the country, forgetting the lessons of the past and, in particular, the experience of the old Russian army, neglecting to study military theory and the cult of the experience of civil war, while this experience can not always be applied to the conditions of modern warfare.

    The thesis about the invincibility of our Red Army was widely propagated in our country, but history does not know invincible armies. The wars of the past show us that even armies that have won brilliant victories for decades, in certain cases not only suffered setbacks and defeats, but even completely crumbled and ceased to exist.

    War is an equation with many unknowns; this alone refutes the thesis of invincibility. The army, of course, needs to be educated so that it is confident in its abilities. The army needs to instill a spirit of confidence in its power, but not in the sense of boasting. Bragging about invincibility harms the army. Meanwhile, in the charters of the Red Army and in the entire system of propaganda and agitation, a false understanding of the invincibility of the Red Army was most widely reflected. So, the draft Field Charter of 1939 directly indicates that the Red Army “... exists as an invincible, all-destructive force. That’s how it is, it’ll always be that way. "

    International tasks are unnecessarily emphasized in the draft Field Charter, which states that “the Red Army will enter the territory of our enemy as the liberator of the oppressed and enslaved” (PU-39, p. 4).
    Of course, in all cases, upon entering enemy territory, we will be in the role of the liberators of the working people from the exploiting classes. But in practical work, one cannot throw flags at all. I believe that it is not necessary to give such a slogan in the Field Charter of the Red Army. Each slogan should have its own place and its own time. Meanwhile, the slogan about the international tasks of the Red Army is very often given out of time, without taking into account the conditions and without taking into account the one to whom they appeal.
    1. Mikado 12 January 2017 18: 24 New
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      Weakness of military scientific work in the army and the country, oblivion of the lessons of the past and, in particular, the experience of the old Russian army, neglect of the study of military theory and the cult of the experience of civil war, while this experience can not always be applied to the conditions of modern warfare.

      is this report on the finnish war? Alexey, now you just dumped us a fount. The Mehlis is unambiguous in the media; but it turns out he was not so stubborn and limited. Thank!
      1. Alexey RA 12 January 2017 18: 34 New
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        Quote: Mikado
        is this report on the finnish war?

        Rather, not by the war itself, but by the results of the well-known "Conference at the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (b) of the commanding staff on the collection of experience in military operations against Finland April 14-17.04.1940, XNUMX." For in the second paragraph the Mehlis directly says:
        Comrade Stalin in his speech at a military meeting in the Kremlin posed before us the broad issues of military ideology and revealed a number of egregious errors and blunders.

        And further throughout the text, there are references to the final speech of the IVS at the “Follow-up Meeting”.
        Comrade Stalin put forward the thesis - not to cultivate the experience of the civil war, to end this cult. Much follows from this thesis.
        © Mehlis
        And here is the source:
        So, what prevented our commanding assembly from waging a war in Finland in a new way, not in the type of civil war, but in a new way? In my opinion, the cult of tradition and experience of the civil war interfered. As our command structure is regarded: have you participated in the civil war? No, I did not participate. Go away. Did he participate? Participated. Give him here, he has a lot of experience and more.
        I must say, of course, the experience of the civil war is very valuable, the traditions of the civil war are also valuable, but they are completely insufficient. This is precisely the cult of the tradition and experience of the civil war that must be put to an end, and it prevented our command personnel from immediately reorganizing themselves in a new way, on the tracks of modern war.
        © Stalin
        Quote: Mikado
        The Mehlis is unambiguous in the media; but it turns out he was not so stubborn and limited.

        Duc ... just here he acted within the framework of once again changed General line. And his rear was reinforced concrete - for the basis of his Report is the speech of the IVS at the Meeting on April 14-17, 1940.
        1. Mikado 12 January 2017 20: 45 New
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          In my opinion, the cult of tradition and experience of the civil war interfered. As our command structure is regarded: have you participated in the civil war? No, I did not participate. Go away. Did he participate? I participated. Give him here, he has a lot of experience and more.

          because following the results of the Finnish war there was a change of commanders. Instead of the civil war hero Voroshilov, the place of People’s Commissar of Defense was taken by the man who prepared the breakthrough of the “Mannerheim Line” - Tymoshenko (I believe that he was undeservedly forgotten, but in our time is also discredited by rumors, including on Topwar - “the military conspiracy of 1941- go "). In the Finnish War, the army "washed its face with blood", passed a kind of "strength test", instead of unsuitable personnel, those who showed themselves well were nominated. And the conclusions at the well-known meeting were made right (I’m not saying that in everything), and the army was "rebuilt" over them for the remaining one and a half years before World War II.
          I’ll digress from the topic: at the meeting of the 40th, General Khrulev’s report on the organization of supply and its reorganization following the results of the war is still interesting. Concentrates went to the troops, instead of biscuits - crackers, but a lot has changed. It is unfortunate that this administrator-general never received a Hero, although he went through the entire war as the chief of supply for the Red Army. And Stalin raised a separate toast for him after the victory. soldier
          There is a book "Secrets and Lessons of the Finnish War" - a collection of orders and directives. There was some reportable Mehlis about political training in the troops. It seems that he encouraged something like “social competitions” when a fighter during the attack was the first to put a flag on the Finnish bunker. I could be wrong, you probably know, if that, correct.
          with respect, hi
          1. Dekabrist 13 January 2017 00: 51 New
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            "Secrets and lessons of the winter war." Meeting at the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) of the commanding staff on the collection of experience in hostilities against Finland. Transcript. The fourth question. About discipline. From the text it can be understood that in the Red Army there was a competition for the best execution of the order even before the outbreak of hostilities. Meretskov criticizes this practice and considers it an omission that it was not canceled, since the order must be executed in any case, and the competition leads to poor discipline and unnecessary losses. Mehlis made only one remark: "You have to compete wisely."
            1. Mikado 13 January 2017 10: 32 New
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              yes, because it came to the point of absurdity and extra thoughtless losses.
          2. voyaka uh 15 January 2017 00: 15 New
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            This confirms the hypothesis that the Finnish War was a fundamental turning point before the Second World War. Turn from the "victoriously attacking Red Army"
            (concept of the 30s) towards reality: self-doubt and emphasis on defense.
            My father told me that right after the Finnish newspaper Pravda stopped publishing traditional editorial articles about future victories, a march to free the workers of Europe from capital, an indestructible army, etc. This is all noticed.
            Apparently, Stalin was shocked by the inability of the regular troops to crush the Finnish army, a practically popular militia operating without tanks, a heavy atra. And, adding to this an analysis of Hitler’s blitzkriegs, he realized that he was waiting for him in a clash with Germany.
            Which is what happened. Full reform of the army had to be carried out already in the depths of its territory sad
            This, incidentally, is precisely about the dangers of false propaganda. For which you then have to pay with blood.
            1. stalkerwalker 15 January 2017 01: 17 New
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              Quote: voyaka uh
              Stalin was shocked by the inability of the regular forces to crush the Finnish army, a practically popular militia operating without tanks, heavy atra.

              Lesha,
              Is your last name a pharmacist?
              What do you call the Shyutzkor militia?
              You would study the history of the Winter War ...
              Short help.
              ... In the summer of 1939, the Finnish government began covert mobilization under the pretext of calling on reservists to undergo training. As a result, by the beginning of the Winter War, the Finnish army had grown from 37 to 127 thousand people. By November 30, five infantry army divisions had been deployed from the storerooms. In addition, two infantry divisions were in the process of mobilization, three more were being prepared for deployment. Together with two additionally deployed brigades, the number of border guards reached eight battalions. By the beginning of the war and in its early days, the forces of the Shyutskor and the auxiliary women's service “Lotta Svjard” were also mobilized. As a result, the total number of the Finnish Defense Forces in the early days of the Winter War reached 530-550 thousand people (including about 130 thousand women). Thus, almost 14% of the total population of the country stood under a gun ....A.Shirokorad. Northern wars of Russia.
              1. voyaka uh 16 January 2017 00: 33 New
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                "The total number of the Finnish Defense Forces in the early days of the Winter War reached 530-550 thousand people (including about 130 thousand women). Thus, almost 14% of the total population got under arms" ////

                Well, and in what am I mistaken? Just like at the beginning of the Second World War in the USSR .: divisions of the militia with small arms without equipment. Plus organized guerrilla training.
                For Finland, it was a national war. And they won her, like
                The Soviet Union is domestic.
                1. stalkerwalker 16 January 2017 00: 46 New
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                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  Well, and in what am I mistaken? Just as at the beginning of the Second World War in the USSR .: divisions of the militia with small arms without equipment

                  You made a mistake in the structure of the shutskor.
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  And they won her

                  In which place?
                  Do not recommend Mannerheim Parliament to stop the massacre on the occasion of the complete depletion of human resources at the Finns, the Red Army would hold a parade in Helsinki in May 40th.
                2. Parsec 16 January 2017 00: 47 New
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                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  For Finland, it was a national war. And they won her, like
                  The Soviet Union is domestic.

                  Saturation of puddles continues.
                  The results of the war are measured by the achievement of the goals of the war. USSR in the so-called In the Winter War, he achieved his goals, as he achieved them according to the results of the Vyborg operation of 1944.
                  Everything else is your emotional assessment — well, you want the USSR / Russia to lose, but no. You can carry any nonsense, however, the results of both wars, with or without Shutskor, are as they are.
            2. Mikado 15 January 2017 14: 19 New
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              Apparently, Stalin was shocked by the inability of the regular forces to crush the Finnish army, a practically popular militia that operated without tanks, heavy atra

              About the "people's militia" I do not quite agree. The Finnish army was exceptionally well prepared for its theater of operations: very good shooting training, ski training, warm clothes. Plus they know the theater, the defense relies on a system of camouflaged fortifications and engineering barriers, minefields, etc. The Red Army could not realize superiority in technology at such a theater - it was trite, when it was only a few roads (the road is hard to say), everything around it was forests and lakes, cold (I mean coats and a budenovka on my head), plus attacks on the rear, enemy equipment not crush. Yes, the Finns tactics were specific - defensive and sabotage, but at that theater, when they were prepared in the war (both training and supply), it brought them success. History does not have a subjunctive mood, but in those conditions any army advancing on the Finns would have blundered.
              Timoshenko improved the training of troops (under Voroshilov, they did somersault through the fifth point). He drove out every battalion during exercises in the rear of the training lanes, like Suvorov in front of Ishmael, forcing people to learn to break through the enemy’s defenses.
              My father told me that right after the Finnish newspaper Pravda stopped publishing traditional editorial articles about future victories, a march to free the workers of Europe from capital, an indestructible army, etc. This is all noticed.

              willingly believe. It was silly somehow, although Popel writes in his memoirs "Tanks turned west" that posters in front of German positions such as "German soldier, do not shoot at the same workers and peasants" were hung up already in the 42nd year. The remnants of Tukhachevsky’s theory of the “class heterogeneous enemy” apparently still lived.
              with respect, hi
              1. JS20 15 January 2017 17: 31 New
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                Quote: Mikado
                History does not have a subjunctive mood, but in those conditions any army advancing on the Finns would have blundered.

                But the Germans bypassed the French line. Why? Because they knew about her. Why didn’t it bypass the Red Army? Because nifiga did not know about this line.
                And then, of course, got out "forests and lakes, cold (I'm talking about my greatcoat and budenovka on my head), plus attacks on the rear." What, about the cold and warm clothes did not know anything? About the lakes? And what about possible attacks on the rear?
                The actions of the Red Army in Finland predetermined 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. It was on the basis of this war that Hitler concluded that the Red Army was not operational, And in this he was right.
                1. svp67 15 January 2017 17: 41 New
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                  Quote: JS20
                  But the Germans bypassed the French line. Why? Because they knew about her. Why didn’t it bypass the Red Army? Because nifiga did not know about this line.

                  Again you with your non-knowledge climb into history. Just the most terrible defeats, namely, the encirclement and defeat of a part of the Red Army suffered in an attempt to bypass the Manerheim line. It’s only trouble, if the Maginot line was bypassed in the heat and in the middle of Europe, then the Manerheim line had to be bypassed near the line of the Arctic Circle and in very difficult conditions ...
                  Yes, and the story of the bypass no longer paints the Frenchman, since they suppose such an opportunity, they could defeat the Germans with small forces in the forests of Arden, even before they reached the Maginot line. Moreover, the Finns showed how this can be done. And if they couldn’t even, then during the battles the troops would have managed to transfer to the breakthrough place. So, France is no longer up to par here than the USSR.
                  1. JS20 15 January 2017 17: 52 New
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                    Quote: svp67
                    then the Mannerheim line had to be bypassed near the line of the Arctic Circle and in very difficult conditions ...

                    And it’s good that it’s not through the “bowels of the earth”. From Soviet commanders, ingenious, but poorly educated, one could not have expected that. Learn geography, you need to.
                    Quote: svp67
                    So, France is no longer up to par here than the USSR.

                    Of course, the USSR is always on top, who would doubt it. And in the summer of 1941, too.
                    1. svp67 15 January 2017 17: 55 New
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                      Quote: JS20
                      Of course, the USSR is always on top, who would doubt it. And in the summer of 1941, too.

                      All the defeats of the USSR somehow do not beg for what happened to the most "powerful army of Europe" in 1940. So, alas, the Red Army was "in the general global trend." Until I learned to WIN.
                      And she won. Even France allowed to be among the winners.
                      1. JS20 15 January 2017 20: 47 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        So, alas, the Red Army was "in the general global trend." Until I learned to WIN.

                        Calculate how many millions of lives this "training" was worth. And what for it was so many years before the war to feed this horde of rebellion-red commanders?
                        Quote: svp67
                        And she won.

                        Yes, she won, and even among the 4 main winners. Although the Anglo-Saxons could throw, as they threw a mirror image of the USSR in Asia, China.
                        However, the Anglo-Saxons did not need further China. And the USSR could still come in handy in Asia. Therefore, they threw China, but the USSR in Europe, no.
                        Although in Asia, the Soviet Union, the Anglo-Saxons still overturned with a peace treaty. Like China.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Even France allowed to be among the winners.

                        The last thing anyone asked about France was the USSR. I think they didn’t even ask, but simply confronted the fact that the main winners would be not 3, but 4.
                    2. svp67 15 January 2017 17: 57 New
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                      Quote: JS20
                      And it’s good that it’s not through the “bowels of the earth”. From Soviet commanders, ingenious, but poorly educated, one could not have expected that. Learn geography, you need to.

                      Well, where are they to the French and English commanders, they certainly decided to bury themselves in the bowels and sit there until the VICTORY, they did not even establish reconnaissance ... Yes, they are certainly GREAT generals.
                      1. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 56 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        to the French and English generals

                        Yes, you can still recall the "African commanders." Asian. Puerto Rican and Martian. Just to translate the arrows.
                2. Mikado 15 January 2017 17: 55 New
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                  Yes, our army was not ready for the Finnish war - as a statement. There are many reasons, there is nothing to admire. Conclusions were made correct.
                  Because nifiga did not know about this line.

                  we did not have very good relations with the Finns after the Civil. The country is mononational. Intelligence is difficult; agents are difficult to establish. All Finns who collaborated with us during the Civil War were in the USSR and lived after it, because in Finland all sympathizers of the Communists were plagued by the roots in the 18-20s.
                  But the Germans bypassed the French line.

                  the Germans didn’t quite “go around” the Maginot line. They broke through it. True, not on the main plot, but in the Ardennes. In Europe, a slightly different theater of operations, nature is different. It is easier to go around, a solid forest, as we have in Karelia, with three roads in the form of clearings does not interfere.
                  What, about the cold and warm clothes did not know anything? ... And about possible attacks on the rear?

                  If the Germans were placed in the same conditions as the Red Army in the 39th year, I would have looked at them. Although this phrase is relevant for the Germans in the 41st. The armies of other countries at this time can just ignore (the same British and Americans frowned in SEA, their hands grew even more from the fifth point while they gained experience).
                  And in this he was right.

                  if he were right, he would have won. Read the military diaries of Halder and Leeb, military operations in Russia from the first days were different from the war in Europe, "it’s not a maneuver anymore, but the battle plays a major role."
                  1. stalkerwalker 15 January 2017 18: 04 New
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                    Quote: Mikado
                    Read the military diaries of Halder and Leeb, military operations in Russia from the first days were different from the war in Europe, "it’s not a maneuver anymore, but the battle plays a major role."

                    Yes, you stop crucifying so much before the Resunoids ...

                    The events of the winter of 39/40, like the summer of the 41st, have long been studied, conclusions are drawn.

                    In the fact that fully mobilized the army of France was defeated in 40 days by the Wehrmacht, inferior in numbers to the French, this ignoramus with a Canadian residence permit does not know.

                    And what, one wonders, to break spears?
                    1. Mikado 15 January 2017 18: 11 New
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                      I’m not going to break spears with him, I just had to give a motivated answer to the “slogans from the sofa”. You are absolutely right, we both perfectly understand this hi drinks
                      1. stalkerwalker 15 January 2017 18: 16 New
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                        Quote: Mikado
                        just on the "slogans from the couch" had to give a reasoned answer

                        I agree,
                        that it is necessary to discuss with worthy opponents ....
                        drinks
                      2. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 28 New
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                        Quote: Mikado
                        I’m not going to break spears with him, I just had to give a motivated answer to the “slogans from the sofa”.

                        Are you able to do this?
                        About "slogans from the couch," I would recommend that you take a closer look at yourself.
                      3. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 29 New
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                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        I agree,
                        that it is necessary to discuss with worthy opponents ....

                        Apparently therefore, as an opponent, you are not interesting to me.
                    2. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 03 New
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                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      that the fully mobilized army of France

                      Ah, here it is. The Red Army, it turns out, was poorly mobilized.
                      How much cannon fodder do you need? Was not enough? With such a number of the Red Army, 22.06.41/30.09.1941/XNUMX? And who would feed her? The Americans signed it only on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      was defeated in 40 days by the Wehrmacht

                      Glad I am for the Wehrmacht. Especially considering the fact that the USSR on September 24.09.41, 95, on the XNUMXth day of the war, signed the Atlantic Charter. Explain to you what this really meant or will you understand? A slight time difference has come out.
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      The events of the winter of 39/40, like the summer of the 41st, have long been studied, conclusions are drawn.

                      Yes, you don’t even know them. Even approximately.
                      1. svp67 15 January 2017 21: 12 New
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                        Quote: JS20
                        Yes, you don’t even know them. Even approximately.

                        Yes, you have pride, my friend, and this is a sin.
                        Quote: JS20
                        Ah, here it is. The Red Army, it turns out, was poorly mobilized.

                        Yes, at the time the war began, the army was not ready. With parts of an incomplete composition, not having a complete set of weapons and equipment, with parts smeared along the extension routes. So, alas, the quantity here does not give an exact picture of what is happening.
                        Quote: JS20
                        Especially considering the fact that the USSR on September 24.09.41, 95, on the XNUMXth day of the war, signed the Atlantic Charter. Explain to you what this really meant or will you understand?

                        Well explain to us dark ...
                      2. stalkerwalker 15 January 2017 21: 17 New
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                        Quote: JS20
                        How much cannon fodder do you need?

                        You are sick?
                        Quote: JS20
                        With such a number of the Red Army, 22.06.41/XNUMX/XNUMX?

                        Bring tsifiri. Both general and in places of tank group attacks. Then we’ll talk.
                        Quote: JS20
                        Yes, you don’t even know them.

                        Do not judge by yourself.
                        This is your complete golem fantasies and endless mention of the charter.
                        Provide data with links.
                        Quote: JS20
                        Glad I am for the Wehrmacht.

                        In this phrase - your whole rotten essence.
                      3. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 39 New
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                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        You are sick?

                        No, that was the question for you.
                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        Bring tsifiri. How common

                        On June 22, 1941 - 5 080 977 people
                        It's enough. And how the Kraskoms arranged this huge army in the districts is another question.
                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        Quote: JS20
                        Glad I am for the Wehrmacht.

                        In this phrase - your whole rotten essence.

                        In fact, there should have been quotes. Late noticed and could not fix.
                        In fact, of course, a long war in Western Europe was only in the hands of the USSR. This is clear even to a student. Therefore, the quick victory of the Germans cannot please me in any way.
                      4. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 51 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        Yes, at the time the war began, the army was not ready.

                        The entire history of its existence, the USSR only did that it planned to fight with someone or fought. So, until the last day I was waiting for a strike from the USA. did not wait and fell apart.
                        And here, on you, I’m not ready. And what, there were periods when I was ready? Based on my army experience, I doubt it very much.
                        Quote: svp67
                        With parts of an incomplete composition, not having a complete set of weapons and equipment, with parts smeared along the extension routes.

                        Well, why are you telling me this UG? See how many of the 5 million troops were in the western districts. What, this relatively small number of troops could not be fully equipped? It could be. And the troops there were mostly fully equipped.
                        I’ll tell you another secret. Not only Germans, but also Finns, who were like bald hair on a bald head in the summer of 1941. they pressed the Red Army around the neck. See the map if you do not believe.
                        Those. the failure was utter, on all fronts. And the mood in society was not so that on the side of the Bolsheviks.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Well explain to us dark ...

                        This is not an educational program. The internet is full of information on this subject. I especially recommend paying attention to paragraphs. 2 and 3.
                  2. JS20 15 January 2017 21: 27 New
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                    Quote: Mikado
                    In Europe, a slightly different theater of operations, nature is different. It is easier to go around, a solid forest, as we have in Karelia, with three roads in the form of clearings does not interfere.

                    I'll tell you. Although the Baltic Fleet was a choke, it could help a lot against the Finns. Bypass maneuvers do not have to be done overland, through rubble and windbreaks.
                    Quote: Mikado
                    If the Germans were placed in the same conditions as the Red Army in the 39th year, I would have looked at them.

                    In November-December 1941 they were about the same situation. So take a look.
                    Quote: Mikado
                    if he were right, he would have won.

                    First of all, the Barbaross plan intended to knock the USSR out of the game within 100 days. And formally on this point it was executed, on the 95th day of the USSR war, as an independent "player" was knocked out of the war.
                    But not at all as planned in the Barbarossa plan. Instead of surrender of the USSR on the Astrakhan-Arkhangelsk line along the Volga and the North. Dvina, the Germans received a full-fledged front, consisting of the Soviet mobilization potential and the Anglo-Saxon industrial potential (along with the remnants of the Soviet). And they had no chance of success against this combination. Those. since the fall of 1941 the war turned into a slaughter, and the defeat of the Axis was only a matter of time.
                    These are conventional weapons.
                    Hitler understood this, so he paid such attention to the van der Waffe. It was Vandervaffe who, in principle, could have changed the general course of the war, but until the end the Germans did not do anything particularly Vandervaffe.
                    Why didn’t the Germans defeat the USSR in 1941? in strict accordance with the Barbarossa plan?
                    In my opinion, they began to celebrate victory early, canceling 11.07.1941/11.09.1941/XNUMX. action plan of Barbarossa. Which allegedly fettered them. They returned to him (to his likeness) on September XNUMX, XNUMX. But the train had already left, the Third Reich had already died. Next was just his agony. Which cost our people dearly.
                    1. Mikado 16 January 2017 10: 08 New
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                      I'll tell you. Although the Baltic Fleet was a choke, it could help a lot against the Finns. Bypass maneuvers do not have to be done overland, through rubble and windbreaks.

                      I'll tell you too. The actions of the Baltic Fleet are chained with ice (these are the features of the Baltic Fleet since tsarist times, every winter the ships settle in the bases). I am not saying that completely, but in ice conditions it is much more difficult to conduct combat operations. The ice was strong enough, they even planned to make a draft of the ice track for supply. And on the ice they used roundabout maneuvers at the late stage of the war, battalions of sailors marched with attached T-37, T-38 tanks, and tanks could not go everywhere.
                      Of course, I understand that in the Red Army management there were only dunks .. You know better ..
            3. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 16: 15 New
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              Quote: voyaka uh
              ... shocked by the inability of the regular forces to crush the Finnish army, a practically popular militia operating without tanks, heavy atra.

              By the way, the Americans calculated on a computer that it is impossible to take the Mannerheim line ...
              1. JS20 15 January 2017 17: 27 New
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                Quote: Alexander Green
                By the way, the Americans calculated on a computer that it is impossible to take the Mannerheim line ...

                Not Americans, but Puerto Ricans. Based on the most advanced modeling programs in which they are recognized leaders in the world.
                Wider need to fantasize. Large-scale.
                1. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 19: 07 New
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                  These are not my fantasies, this is your brother Victor Rezun (pseudonym Suvorov) wrote in one of his books.
                  1. JS20 15 January 2017 22: 04 New
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                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    this is your brother Viktor Rezun (pseudonym Suvorov) wrote in one of his books.

                    1. What fright does he give me?
                    2. Who cares who raves?
                    1. Alexander Greene 16 January 2017 20: 33 New
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                      Quote: JS20
                      JS20 Yesterday, 22:04 PM ↑
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      this is your brother Viktor Rezun (pseudonym Suvorov) wrote in one of his books.

                      1. What fright does he give me?


                      And you are alike with him, lying from the same sheets.
    2. Dekabrist 12 January 2017 18: 41 New
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      The problem of propaganda is already a derivative of other problems. If at present there is a serious shortage of competent managers at all levels, including in the military sphere. And a lot of stupidities are being done. Now rewind on 100 years ago. 1921 ended the Civil War. Remember the film “Seventeen Moments of Spring”. There Müller says well that there is a lot of work, and there are few people.
  13. ruskih 13 January 2017 14: 53 New
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    JS20,
    Oh how wrong you are. A lot depends on the teacher’s ability to convey material (which, unfortunately, not everything has been given to teachers) and it is live communication that plays a significant role, and following your logic, we would be deprived of many wonderful people.
    And your comment with the rating of universities causes only a smile.
    1. JS20 14 January 2017 00: 44 New
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      Quote: ruskih
      From the teacher’s ability to convey material

      And who will bring the material to the teacher?
      Quote: ruskih
      and it is live communication that plays a significant role

      I did not write anything about living and non-living communication.
      Quote: ruskih
      we would be deprived of many wonderful people

      For example?
      Quote: ruskih
      And your comment with the rating of universities causes only a smile.

      Maybe it does. But there is a rating. And he is not my compilation.
      And the fact that the "witnesses of socialism" are all offending and pushing, and in general, enemies around, is already 90 years old. As you know.
      1. Cat man null 14 January 2017 01: 22 New
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        Quote: JS20
        Quote: ruskih

        And your comment with the rating of universities causes only a smile.

        Maybe it does. But there is a rating. And he is not made by me

        I’ll insert five cents:

        - in the mid-90s (and in the mid-2000s, approximately) I had the opportunity to work in a very international company developing very specific software. What is characteristic:
        - General Director (local, Moscow office, American). Kevin Hurley He did not solve practically anything, "drove with his hands." ("Well, Hurley, you, Kevin" - standard mockery by programmers - consultants)
        - Consulting Director - American (I don’t remember the name, but sooo thick). In relation to work - similarly.
        - all other stuff - Russian (in the Moscow, of course, office. In Swedish, respectively - Swedes, Polish - Poles, Hungarian - Hungarians)
        - Duc, that's what I am for: Russians blocked (by the level of not even knowledge, but ability to solve problems) everyone. And all this, incidentally, was recognized. Then came the Hungarians (there were a couple of very talented guys, they, in fact, pulled everything), then - with a wide margin - the Swedes. Hindus were “below the pyramid” laughing
        - I mean that ratings are ratings, but the Soviet higher school taught to really resolve a non-standard (and we had a solid non-standard there, unfortunately)
        - nowhere else such a campaign, not taught

        Conclusion: despite the ratings, graduates of Soviet universities (not all, of course ... we exclude fence-building) were better adapted to life and solving the tasks that this life poses.

        IMHO. The rationale is higher.
        1. JS20 14 January 2017 09: 42 New
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          Quote: Cat Man Null
          but the Soviet high school taught to really resolve a non-standard (and we had a continuous non-standard there, unfortunately)

          Soviet higher education taught scientific communism and other such nonsense.
          Life taught how to resolve a non-standard Soviet man. And high school is completely out of business here.
          1. Cat man null 14 January 2017 12: 50 New
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            Quote: JS20
            Soviet high school taught scientific communism and other such nonsense ...

            - ... and at the same time, the student learned to pass the exam on the subject, without really delving into the details
            - all the more so since there was practically no science at all in that “scientific communism”
            - non-standard? Yes, and what good

            Quote: JS20
            Life taught how to resolve a non-standard Soviet man. And high school is completely out of business here.

            - Dear, I graduated from this "school". And I can say that the much studied in it then helped me in life
            - exactly so, and not vice versa yes

            Something like that.
            1. Blackmokona 14 January 2017 14: 05 New
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              Given that the United States has total dominance in software, I suspect that the Russian office in the 90s was considered a garbage sump for the worst personnel in the United States, and at the same time, the best of the best from the territory of the former USSR were selected for these salaries.
            2. JS20 14 January 2017 16: 32 New
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              Quote: Cat Man Null
              Dear, I graduated from this "school". And I can say that the much studied in it then helped me in life

              To affirm such things, one must soberly assess the size of one's assets. This is precisely the most objective indicator of whether something has helped a person in life or not.
              Some should find out what (and who) helped them and what did not.
              Some should not write such phrases at all.
              According to Credit Suisse for 2015. (there is no more recent data yet) it’s worth starting to think if you have 20 USD of NET assets per adult family member (over 52819 years old). This, to make it clearer, is the world average level, including Burundi, Madagascar, USA, Switzerland, etc.
              http://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/rende
              r/file/index.cfm?fileid=C26E3824-E868-56E0-CCA04D
              4BB9B9ADD5
              1. Cat man null 14 January 2017 16: 50 New
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                Quote: JS20
                According to Credit Suisse for 2015. (no more recent data yet)

                - OH !!!
                - somewhere, I already heard this mantra ... from some character who has long been gone among us crying
                - his name was ... his name was ... damn, I forgot ... but I will definitely remember wink
                - that is, you - either his reincarnation, or just the same manuals ... pa-a-aanya-yayatna ...


                Quote: JS20
                To argue these things, you need to soberly assess the size of your assets

                - teach your wife how to cook cabbage soup
                - in order to assert such things, it is enough to evaluate your current position in comparison with the same, statistically most likely
                - however, you don’t understand this, a foreigner ... you have everything there to consider the loot laughing
                1. JS20 14 January 2017 17: 58 New
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                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  - OH !!!
                  - somewhere, I already heard this mantra ... from some character who has long been gone among us

                  That is, as I understand it, you should remember that it helped you in your life too early.
                  As I expected. You would not stick out in the internet, but would work. Maybe it would be time already.
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  you have everything there to consider the loot

                  All over the world loot is considered. It’s easier to confirm or refute talkers like you in numbers. Numbers, here they are. And verbiage you can not multiply.
                  1. Cat man null 14 January 2017 18: 03 New
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                    Quote: JS20
                    All over the world loot is considered. It’s easier to confirm or deny in numbers

                    - Well, for the loot, so for the loot ...
                    - Only one apartment, which I still earned under the Union, and which, I note, is owned, costs a lot more than $ 52819
                    - enough? wink
                    - just in case there is no flame - definition of net assets:

                    Net assets - this is the real value of the property owned by the company, annually determined net of its debts. The size of net assets is the difference between the book value of all assets and the amount of debt obligations of the company

                    - a little not my case (I'm not a "society", and the assessment is not on the "balance sheet"), but in general it is clear, IMHO.
                    1. JS20 14 January 2017 23: 50 New
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                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      Only one apartment that I earned under the Union

                      It is a pity that the USSR didn’t know that you earned it. And calmly continued to own "your" apartment.
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      and which I have, note, in the property,

                      And you still do not like the current government? With what?
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      It costs a lot more than $ 52819

                      You already have something to congratulate. Congratulations.
                      However, do not forget about the number of family members for this asset, if it is the only one.
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      a little not my case (I'm not a "society", and the assessment is not on the "balance sheet"),

                      Don’t worry, the definition of net assets is universal. And for lawyers, and for physicists.
                      1. Cat man null 15 January 2017 00: 08 New
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                        Quote: JS20
                        It is a pity that the USSR didn’t know that you earned it. And calmly continued to own "your" apartment

                        - In the USSR, the mechanism of related residence registration worked wonderfully for this. The apartment was simply inherited

                        Quote: JS20
                        And you still do not like the current government?

                        - I did not say that
                        - I am exactly on the current government. As, however, to all the previous ones
                        - there is wondrous wisdom that ends with the words "... and teach me to distinguish the first from the second"; i can do it yes

                        Quote: JS20
                        do not forget about the number of family members for this asset

                        - you see ... when I say that something is mine, I know for sure that it is only mine. I understand so far?

                        I quit the discussion and stop feeding you.

                        This, however, does not mean that sometimes I will not pinch slightly laughing
      2. ruskih 14 January 2017 11: 28 New
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        You are probably young (that’s good), that’s why this is maximalism. And I was lucky, I met wonderful teachers and they were brought up just by the Soviet school, so I objected to you. Even here on the site there are amazing people. Be careful and you will see them. True, they rarely write. And about ratings - pay attention to the criteria by which they are drawn up, their background will be more clear to you.
        Find on the map a little Tomashovka in the Brest region, and so the boy from there became an astronaut. So much for the Soviet school.
        1. kalibr 14 January 2017 13: 38 New
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          Deficiencies in the Soviet high school passed before my eyes. I have been working in it since 1982 of the year. Pros? It is difficult to say about them, since they are mixed with social programs. In terms of information ... there were none! Now the system, with all its shortcomings, is much more student-oriented. What about the cons? It's hard to say about them, since they are mixed with social programs. In terms of information, they are an order of magnitude less than then! I'll try to write about it somehow ...
        2. JS20 14 January 2017 16: 48 New
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          Quote: ruskih
          And I was lucky, I met wonderful teachers and they were brought up just by the Soviet school, so I objected to you.

          I am happy for the "wonderful educators." But were these “wonderful pedagogues” competent in their profession? At least without exception? Judging by the level of education in the USSR, they will lie. Or we will have to somehow accept the fact that Soviet students did not shine wisely. And this is MUCH LESS than the likely assumption.
          Quote: ruskih
          And about ratings - pay attention to the criteria by which they are drawn up, their background will be more clear to you.

          No need to look for the background (and the machinations of enemies) where they are not. Higher Moscow State University in the ranking of universities in South Africa, Israel, China (a lot). They have no background, does MSU have it? This is nonsense.
          Quote: ruskih
          Find on the map a little Tomashovka in the Brest region, and so the boy from there became an astronaut. So much for the Soviet school.

          I'm glad for the boy. What is his success?
          And where does the "Soviet school"? James Craig Adamson, for example, from the town of Warsaw, New York. In the year of his birth, about 4,5 thousand people lived there.
          1. ruskih 14 January 2017 17: 01 New
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            I can only shrug. fellow As I understand it, you need to chew everything. Unfortunately there is no time, no desire, will be - I will explain intelligibly. smile
            1. JS20 14 January 2017 23: 39 New
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              Quote: ruskih
              I can only shrug.

              Breed. Once not capable of more.
  14. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 16: 11 New
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    JS20,
    Quote: JS20
    This is collectively called bullshit. Together with the "understanding of the homeland."


    After reading your post, I understand that you have nothing to do with homo sapiens.
    1. JS20 14 January 2017 16: 53 New
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      Quote: Alexander Green
      After reading your post, I understand that you have nothing to do with homo sapiens.

      So you have trouble understanding.
      Since you naively believe that some kind of cool dude will come under the name of “a real teacher” and will quickly teach everyone to “understand the Motherland”.
      Will not come. And do not teach.
      1. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 18: 50 New
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        Quote: JS20
        Will not come. And do not teach.

        We had wonderful teachers. And I was taught and children. Until now we remember and love. And you apparently listened poorly to yours, besides, most likely, you didn’t read the correct books, otherwise you would not have run away on a maple leaf.
        1. JS20 14 January 2017 23: 38 New
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          Quote: Alexander Green
          We had wonderful teachers. And I was taught and children.

          What
          What unique skills do you and your children have?
          Quote: Alexander Green
          And you obviously didn’t listen to yours, besides, apparently, you didn’t read the right books

          Why such strange conclusions?
          Quote: Alexander Green
          otherwise they would not have escaped on a maple leaf.

          Envy silently.
          In addition, I live in Europe. And this sheet is not entirely clear to me. But he does not bother me.
          1. Stanislas 15 January 2017 00: 10 New
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            Quote: JS20
            In addition, I live in Europe.
            Ukraine? Immediately noticeable, a broad European ...
            1. JS20 15 January 2017 10: 50 New
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              Quote: Stanislav
              Ukraine?

              Not so much in Europe.
          2. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 16: 23 New
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            Quote: JS20
            What unique skills do you and your children have?

            I and my children see the enemies of socialism through and through, like an x-ray.
            Quote: JS20
            Envy silently.
            In addition, I live in Europe.

            .... migratory birds fly, but I do not want to fly away ...
            1. JS20 15 January 2017 17: 34 New
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              Quote: Alexander Green
              I and my children see the enemies of socialism through and through, like an x-ray.

              It would be better if you knew how to twist the nuts in the toilet. A much more useful skill.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              but I do not want to fly away ...

              Yes, and I do not want to be a billionaire. No, in the sense, I want, of course, but I can not. Therefore, I say to everyone that I do not want to.
              1. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 19: 17 New
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                Quote: JS20
                You better know how to twist the nuts in the outhouse

                And we are not doing it badly.
                And so far I have seen enough in the 60s, and 70s, and 80s, and 90s. So you won’t surprise me with it.
                1. JS20 15 January 2017 20: 09 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And so far I have seen enough in the 60s, and 70s, and 80s, and 90s. So you won’t surprise me with it.

                  Apparently not a horse feed.
                  1. Alexander Greene 16 January 2017 20: 55 New
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                    I agree, I was not lured by a jar of jam and a box of liver, like you.
                    1. JS20 17 January 2017 00: 56 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      they did not lure me with a jar of jam and a box of liver, like you.

                      Do not give? Even a cookie? The trouble, however.
                      According to Credit Suisse for 2015. the average adult Ukrainian is slightly richer than the child, Zambian and Sudanese. But on the other hand, it’s slightly poorer than the Syrian (who heard of such people?), The Burkina Fasovites and the Belarusians.
                      I wish you success in your hard and persistent sitting on the fifth point.
                      1. Alexander Greene 17 January 2017 02: 02 New
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                        Quote: JS20
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        they did not lure me with a jar of jam and a box of liver, like you.

                        Do not give? Even a cookie? The trouble, however.
                        According to Credit Suisse for 2015. the average adult Ukrainian is slightly richer than the child, Zambian and Sudanese. But on the other hand, it’s slightly poorer than the Syrian (who heard of such people?), The Burkina Fasovites and the Belarusians.
                        I wish you success in your hard and persistent sitting on the fifth point.


                        Precisely, do not give. But this is just what I am proud of, because you can’t buy me. Western owners are good psychologists, they know who it is possible, who is not. They bought you, so what ?! Ate one hamburger more ?! - Incremented him !. Drank an extra bottle of Bavarian or Canadian beer ?! “They cast it too! ... So what? !! But it’s not calm at heart, but it is drawn to communicate with normal people, but your nature is so nasty that as soon as you touch something, you will immediately mess everything up. Therefore, normal honest citizens of the former USSR do not accept you and do not respect you. Your masters do not respect you, because you do not have a homeland, you are spoiling it, and therefore you are an outcast. So there is no peace for your soul ... In your place there is only one way ... Shoot ...
                      2. JS20 17 January 2017 02: 39 New
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                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Precisely, do not give. But this is just what I am proud of, because you can’t buy me.

                        Yes, you just do not need anyone, that’s what they don’t give.
                        And you cannot take care of yourself, "religion" does not allow. Uncle should ride on a pink horse and give. Do not jump and will not give, realize it. So grunt "incorruptible."
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Drank an extra bottle of Bavarian or Canadian beer ?!

                        I drink Belgian. And I advise you.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        but your nature is so nasty that as soon as you touch something, you will immediately mess it up.

                        It's funny to me from your "revelations." You are a loser, and you don’t even want to admit it to yourself. So play in the integrity. It’s as if someone is offering you something.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Therefore, normal honest citizens of the former USSR do not accept you and do not respect you.

                        Someone else would be interested in the opinion of these, in your opinion, "normal honest citizens of the former USSR." Exactly the same zombies and losers like you. They can only sit out their pants at a computer (American, by the way), scold America and whine about "socialism". Well, why not whine? They can’t work, they’re not accustomed, but they can eat, just the opposite. Previously, under "socialism", they were perfectly able to combine this, but now, it does not work out. So upset. But they don’t go to work, no, only if under guard.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        and therefore you are an outcast.

                        Horrible, terrible outcast. Here, a straight-out outcast. I look at myself in the mirror and cry like a child.
                        Amazing nonsense you are carrying. Just as at the Komsomol meeting, the "right comrades from the district committee" were telling about the Jews who had left. Well, you have a memory.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        So there is no peace for your soul ...

                        Damn, well, they said. And somehow I somehow did not know that my soul had no peace. Now at least I will know.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        In your place there is only one way ... Shoot ...

                        Wah! And this is generally pure criminality. Bringing to suicide. Look, Green, hound me. And then you have to answer. laughing
              2. Mordvin 3 15 January 2017 19: 23 New
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                Quote: JS20
                It would be better if you knew how to twist the nuts in the toilet. A much more useful skill.

                And you, the campaign, and you do not know how.
                1. JS20 15 January 2017 20: 10 New
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                  Is your surname Nostradamus?
                  Hereditary sorcerer?
                  Remove spoilage, evil eye, guessing on coffee grounds?
                  Or just do nothing?
                  1. Mordvin 3 15 January 2017 20: 15 New
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                    I don’t take off my eyes, I don’t guess at the thicket. What else is there? And, yes, not Nostradamus, they call me Vovan.
                  2. Mordvin 3 15 January 2017 20: 20 New
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                    Quote: JS20
                    Or just do nothing?

                    In, at the point hit. I remove the output voltage before the working day. negative
  15. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 16: 15 New
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    JS20,
    RџSЂRё
    Quote: JS20
    And where does "today"? We are talking about the blatant degradation of education under the Bolsheviks. Why translate tracks?


    Under the Bolsheviks, the development of education just began, and it was on top. But you, as a non-representative of homosapience, cannot understand this.
    1. JS20 14 January 2017 16: 59 New
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      Quote: Alexander Green
      Under the Bolsheviks, the development of education just began, and it was at its best.

      So I do not argue with you. I have repeatedly pointed out that this formation was at a "skirting" height.
      Quote: Alexander Green
      But you, as a non-representative of homosapience, cannot understand this.

      You should not be offending. To you, as an obvious representative of homo sapiens, in your opinion, of course, this does not suit you.
      1. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 18: 39 New
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        Sorry, but I do not insult you, I simply state the fact that you don’t understand such high matters as “love for the Motherland”, etc. You called them bullshit. You yourself excluded from homosapiens.
        1. kalibr 14 January 2017 21: 27 New
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          Alexander, why in the wonderful Soviet educational system it was impossible to read Orwell’s novel “1984” and his fairy tale “Bestial Corner”? And nothing was reported about the Pareto law. Even science such as sociology did not exist? I will tell you why. It opens people's eyes. And that was unnecessary. A thunder of leftist phrases and mass approvals ending with 91. Here you have all the cool soviet education. Although with regard to ballet and much more, we - yes ... succeeded. The good ones made bombs, Kalash ... but they didn’t make tampons, but "all for the good of man", right? So do not talk about education. I worked for 4 years in a rural school, then more than 30 years in high school. You can blame today's life for a lot, but for education today everything is there. Whoever wants and can has it. Well, but you can’t - why do you need it? Forks and shovels are waiting for children of hereditary alcoholics, dropped by drunken mothers, conceived by drunkenness, etc. Should someone dig manure from under the cows?
          1. Alexander Greene 14 January 2017 23: 01 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            You can blame today's life for a lot, but for education today everything is there.


            Colleague, today there is no main thing - good teachers and good school preparation.
            You sob about the fact that in the USSR it was impossible to read the anti-communist libel of George Orwell and the empty Pareto principle, which does not necessarily come true, and the knowledge of which gives nothing but the opportunity to impress others with its pseudo-education.
            For example, I did not lose anything from their ignorance. Instead, I studied materialistic dialectics, which really is a real methodology of scientific research and which in my life helped me to correctly understand and evaluate all the phenomena and events both in society and in technology. This is what was taught in the Soviet school. And that was right.
            1. kalibr 15 January 2017 09: 21 New
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              Alexander! Why do you sob right away? I’d like to say offensive, right? No, I do not cry. Just specify. And after all, Orwell’s anti-communist libel turned out to be prophetic, right? Pareto law works. If you don’t know how to use it, this is your problem, right? "Lost nothing?" - it seems so to you, in fact you have lost a lot, just do not know about it. And there are enough good teachers in schools! Do you know who is missing there? Good parents! To teach small cattle - children of adult cattle, an thankless task. That is why now there are so many educational studios and individual centers where those who really need education go. Cattle in one place - children in others.
              And why am I your “colleague”? Did you knead manure on the way to the village school for 4 years, and then teach 30 years at a university?
        2. JS20 14 January 2017 23: 34 New
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          Quote: Alexander Green
          I’m just stating the fact that you don’t understand such high matters as “love for the Motherland”, etc.

          Who told you that?
          Quote: Alexander Green
          You called them bullshit.

          I called your statement nonsense that some kind of cool dude will come under the name "real teacher" and will quickly teach everyone to "understand the Motherland".
          You have obvious problems understanding what is written in Russian. But in Ukrainian I do not know how.
          Quote: Alexander Green
          You yourself excluded from homosapiens.

          Since I am not writing this to you for the first time, I have to conclude that you have excluded yourself from the number of homo sapiens. Since homo sapiens, unlike you, just usually understand what they write about.
          1. Cat man null 14 January 2017 23: 49 New
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            Quote: JS20
            Since I am writing this to you not for the first time, you have to conclude that you have excluded yourself from the number of homo sapiens. As homo sapiens, unlike you, just usually understand what they write about.

            - the problem, IMHO, is that you write
            - since you can be attributed to homo sapiens, if you can, then with a stretch of mind, it is not surprising that a normal person does not understand you
            - did not try to think in this direction? And try, it will suddenly help ... although personally I doubt request
          2. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 16: 32 New
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            Dear, I quote your post.

            JS20 Yesterday, 00:27 PM ↑
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Good, love for people, for the living world, understanding of the Motherland

            This is collectively called bullshit. Together with the "understanding of the homeland."


            You either deftly dodge, or we really speak different languages.
            1. JS20 15 January 2017 17: 41 New
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              Quote: Alexander Green
              You either deftly dodge, or we really speak different languages.

              I already noted that you have problems understanding what is written in Russian. It happens, apparently Russian is not your native.
              In addition, you modestly omitted your phrase, to which I answered mine.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Good, love for people, for the living world, understanding of the Motherland comes only through a real teacher.

              Then, taking the phrase out of context, they accused me of all mortal sins.
              It already smells bad.
              To this day, I continue to insist that the role of the teacher is exaggerated by you and, in fact, what you wrote, this is complete nonsense.
              1. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 19: 41 New
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                Dear, JS20, I’m repeating your post for the third time, otherwise you dodge like a crucian in a pan.

                Quote: JS20
                JS20 Yesterday, 00:27 PM ↑
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Good, love for people, for the living world, understanding of the Motherland

                This is collectively called bullshit. Together with the "understanding of the homeland."


                And these words of yours cannot be covered in any context.
                1. JS20 16 January 2017 01: 05 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And these words of yours cannot be covered in any context.

                  Oooooooo. All clear.
                  Bye. I am not an expert on your problem.
                  1. Alexander Greene 16 January 2017 21: 04 New
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                    But I got you through, you are an ordinary paid troll, who in such a short period of registration managed, like a skunk to spoil almost the entire forum.
                    1. JS20 17 January 2017 00: 58 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      who managed in such a short registration period as a skunk to spoil almost the entire forum.

                      But I think that others are crap on the forum. I will not point a finger diplomatically.
                      PS. I'm trying to tell you basic things. It has long been known around the world. I am trying to get you out of your dense and aggressive ignorance, which was actively instilled, but fortunately, not everyone was instilled under "socialism."
                      But you, like that worm from a joke, always strive to dump "home." What can I say. "Man is the creator of his own happiness." This is not me, this is Max Gorky said. About you.
                      PPP. The average adult Tajik is 1,8 times richer than the average adult Ukrainian.
                      PPPs. The poorest in the post-Soviet space are Ukrainians.
                      1. JS20 17 January 2017 01: 19 New
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                        Quote: JS20
                        PPP. The average adult Tajik is 1,8 times richer than the average adult Ukrainian.
                        PPPs. The poorest in the post-Soviet space are Ukrainians.

                        This data is all the same Credit Suisse for 2015. If you want to familiarize yourself here: http://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/rende
                        r/file/index.cfm?fileid=C26E3824-E868-56E0-CCA04D
                        4BB9B9ADD5
                        For those who do not understand English, I will inform you that the average adult Turkmen (they are the richest in the post-Soviet space) is richer than the average adult Ukrainian (they are the poorest in the post-Soviet space) ... 40 times. And the average adult Estonian is almost 32 times.
                        However, Belarusians make up the "competition" for Ukrainians. The average adult Belarus is richer than the average adult Ukraine by 0,4%, i.e. almost at the same level. The level of African countries.
          3. Alexander Greene 15 January 2017 16: 45 New
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            Dear, JS20, I decided to repeat your post, otherwise you will again misunderstand my previous answer.
            Quote: JS20

            0
            JS20 Yesterday, 00:27 PM ↑
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Good, love for people, for the living world, understanding of the Motherland

            This is collectively called bullshit. Together with the "understanding of the homeland."


            How to read it differently? Or is it just according to Kozma Prutkov? "Do not believe your eyes?
  16. svp67 15 January 2017 21: 03 New
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    JS20,
    And what for it was so many years before the war to feed this horde of rebellion-red commanders?
    Exactly the same question can be asked of the command personnel of Poland, France, Greece, Norway, Belgium, England, and the United States.

    Yes, she won, and even among the 4 main winners. Although the Anglo-Saxons could throw, as they threw a mirror image of the USSR in Asia, China.
    However, the Anglo-Saxons did not need further China. And the USSR could still come in handy in Asia. Therefore, they threw China, but the USSR in Europe, no.
    Although in Asia, the Soviet Union, the Anglo-Saxons still overturned with a peace treaty. Like China.

    In Europe, with the USSR, no one could respectfully behave at that moment. It could be very fraught for them to go out ...

    The last thing anyone asked about France was the USSR. I think they didn’t even ask, but simply confronted the fact that the main winners would be not 3, but 4.
    again not knowledge of the issue and "pouting". It was only because of the position of the USSR that the "Free France" de Gaulle was recognized as a political force. So that here the contribution of the USSR is.
  17. stalkerwalker 15 January 2017 22: 14 New
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    Quote: JS20
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    You are sick?
    No, that was the question for you.

    You did not answer.
    Feel free to admit?
    Quote: JS20
    On June 22, 1941 - 5 080 977 people
    It's enough. And how the Kraskoms arranged this huge army in the districts is another question.

    Noooo ...
    You are a dumb provocateur.
    And when, and most importantly, why did the Kraskoms have to pull all the forces of the Red Army to the border?
    Or do you consider yourself smarter than the General Staff and the political leadership of the USSR in early 1941?
    Quote: JS20
    In fact, of course, a long war in Western Europe was only in the hands of the USSR. This is clear even to a student. Therefore, the quick victory of the Germans cannot please me in any way.

    And this is a comment of an animal Russophobe ....
    You see Europe feel sorry for him, but let the USSR disappear.

    Have you written a message to Matsarevich for a meeting of Amer’s allies?
    1. JS20 16 January 2017 00: 10 New
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      Quote: stalkerwalker
      And this is a comment of an animal Russophobe ....

      Look at yourself, a miracle. You do not understand the words, as I see.
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      You see Europe feel sorry for him, but let the USSR disappear.

      You look in the book, and you see the usual fig.
      Where did you dig such conclusions from my words:
      Quote: JS20
      In fact, of course, a long war in Western Europe was only in the hands of the USSR. This is clear even to a student. Therefore, the quick victory of the Germans cannot please me in any way.

      It is necessary to have a bite.
      Just in case, I delete you from the interlocutors. I prefer to communicate with adequate opponents.
      1. stalkerwalker 16 January 2017 00: 37 New
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        Quote: JS20
        You do not understand the words, as I see.

        You look in the mirror first ...
        Quote: JS20
        Just in case, I delete you from the interlocutors. I prefer to communicate with adequate opponents.

        You are not my interlocutor.
        You can’t do anything on the same field without feelings of disgust.
  18. svp67 15 January 2017 22: 51 New
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    JS20,
    Quote: JS20
    Yes, you can still recall the "African commanders." Asian. Puerto Rican and Martian. Just to translate the arrows.

    No, this is necessary FOR COMPARISON AND COMPLETENESS OF THE PICTURE. Because to draw conclusions about the lack of talent or the ability of one of the warring armies, not knowing how others fought, this is not entirely true. And as a result of this comparison, we have that not only the Red Army lost the Wehrmacht at the first stage of the war, but other armies of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition lost “dry”.
    1. stalkerwalker 15 January 2017 22: 55 New
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      Quote: svp67
      And as a result of this comparison, we have that not only the Red Army lost the Wehrmacht at the first stage of the war, but other armies of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition lost “dry”.

      Well so .....
      A lover of maple syrup will somehow get acquainted with the research (and not with illiterate criticism) of the initial period of the Great Patriotic War.
      But he knows the date of signing the charter ... laughing
    2. JS20 16 January 2017 00: 13 New
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      Quote: svp67
      not knowing how others fought this is not entirely true

      What is the constant translation of arrows? If others fought badly, is that the reason for fighting badly themselves? What kind of logic is such a curve?
      1. stalkerwalker 16 January 2017 00: 30 New
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        Quote: JS20
        If others fought badly, is that the reason for fighting badly themselves? What kind of logic is such a curve?

        Learn the materiel
        study serious studies.

        I give a hint.

        The Red Army in June of the 41st could not be both the structure of military units, and the concentration of its troops at the border (and there are only undeveloped cover armies stretched by a thread), and the lack of experience in conducting military operations on a wide front against concentrated attacks by three Wehrmacht tank groups.

        A separate line is the question of the degree of development of new military equipment of military units of the Red Army.

        France had the Maginot line and the strongest fully mobilized army in Europe, as well as TIME - from 3.09.39 to May 1940.
  19. svp67 15 January 2017 23: 15 New
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    [quote = JS20]
    [quote] The entire history of its existence, the USSR only did that it planned to fight with someone or fought. So, until the last day I was waiting for a strike from the USA. did not wait and fell apart.
    And here, on you, I’m not ready. [/ quote]
    Well, not only the Soviet Union was preparing for war, it did, is doing and will continue to be done by ALL countries in the world who wish to maintain their sovereignty. So here you somehow did not think twice ...
    [quote] And what, there were periods when you were ready? Based on my army experience, I doubt it very much. [/ Quote] Doubt is always good, but you don’t go too far with them, otherwise you will stop trusting yourself. The army is never absolutely ready, since it must always be in update mode. The question is different, what exactly during that period of the Red Army really turned out to be at the stage of completion of the imagination. But I will say more that even if she managed to complete it, she would still lose the border battles, as she was not ready to wage war by modern means at that time. But the truth is also different, if the completion of our troops imagination, the Germans would not have had such great victories, they could have been stopped at least at the turn of the Dnieper.
    [quote] Well, why are you telling me this UG? See how many of the 5 million troops were in the western districts. What, this relatively small number of troops could not be fully equipped? It could be. And the troops there were mostly fully equipped there. [/ Quote]
    Yes, there were those troops that showed themselves on the good side. It is worth recalling the actions of the 99th Rifle Division and our troops on the border with Romania.
    [quote] I will tell you another secret. Not only Germans, but also Finns, who were like bald hair on a bald head in the summer of 1941. they pressed the Red Army around the neck. Look at the map if you do not believe. [/ Quote]
    Well, you won’t throw words out of the song, but the Finnish troops had success in 1941, but that was where they ended, and for that they were very severely punished in 1944. Do not believe? See maps of those battles ...
    [quote] That is. failure was utter, on all fronts. [/ quote]
    No, not for everyone. The Southwestern Front repelled the attack quite successfully. Moreover, he also snapped very strongly.
    [quote] Yes, and the mood in society was not so that on the side of the Bolsheviks [/ quote] but here the difference between their power and the power of the last emperor was manifested, unlike him, the Bolsheviks were able to turn the tide and take control
    [quote] This is not an educational program. The internet is full of information on this subject. I especially recommend paying attention to paragraphs. 2 and 3. [/ quote] strange You are so fond of educating us "dark" and "lost", but here you are forced to switch to self-education.
    n2.Failure of two powers to support territorial changes that are not “in agreement with the freely expressed desire of the peoples concerned;
    p3.The right of nations to choose their form of government, the restoration of “sovereign rights and self-government of those peoples who were deprived of this by force;

    Solid declarations ...
    Like other items:
    p4.Free access of all countries, large or small, to world trade and raw materials necessary for the economic prosperity of states;
    p5. Global Economic Cooperation and Welfare. Both statesmen declared their desire to realize full cooperation between all countries in the economic field with the goal of ensuring a higher standard of living, economic development and social security for all (the goal of the new world organization being created, which later became the UN);
    p.6. Freedom from need and fear. “After the final destruction of Nazi tyranny,” read paragraph six, the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom “hope for peace that will give all countries the opportunity to live in security on their territory, and ensure that all people in all countries they will be able to live without knowing either fear or need ”;
    p. 7 Freedom of the seas. Such a world can provide all peoples with the opportunity to freely, without any obstacles, sail across the seas and oceans;
    Clause 8: Disarmament of aggressor states, general disarmament after the war. “They (the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom) believe that all states of the world should, for reasons of a realistic and spiritual order, renounce the use of force, since no future peace can be preserved if states that threaten or may threaten aggression outside of their borders will continue to use land, sea and air weapons. “Churchill and Roosevelt believe that, until a broader and more reliable system of global security is established, such countries should be disarmed.”

    The most important thing is that of these items almost nothing has been done ...
    1. JS20 16 January 2017 00: 49 New
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      Quote: svp67
      ALL countries of the world have done this, are doing it and will do it

      And again the jambs on the sides. You need to take care of yourself and answer for yourself.
      Quote: svp67
      But the truth is also different, if the completion of our troops imagination, the Germans would not have had such great victories, they could have been stopped at least at the turn of the Dnieper.

      I want to upset you, but in 1941. participation of the Red Army in the decision of the future could well be minimal. Yes, the units fought, yes, they sometimes stood to their death. But all these actions could not have played a big role if the Germans had not abandoned Barbarossa.
      But they refused Barbarossa, so 2MB in 1941. Wehrmacht lost. And basically himself, because adopted the rules of the game of the Red Army. The Germans began to play. And they got proud early.
      The Germans lost 2 months (exactly), getting involved, in spite of Barbarossa, in the Smolensk operation and other “turns”. And when they came to, it was too late. And time was lost, before the debauchery they did not have time. Yes, and Lend-Lease in October already went to the USSR. Everything, the Third Reich ordered a long life. Moreover, back in 1941. Further until 1945. was his agony.
      The war could have ended earlier, but in 1942. "brilliant Soviet commanders" again established in a big way. Therefore, the war dragged on until 1945.
      Quote: svp67
      The Southwestern Front repelled the attack quite successfully. Moreover, he also snapped very strongly.

      The only problem is that nobody particularly attacked him. The direction was secondary.
      Quote: svp67
      unlike him, the Bolsheviks were able to turn the tide and take control

      Yes, the emperor did not massively retreat. And the relatives of the surrendered were not repressed.
      Quote: svp67
      Solid declarations ...

      It seems so to you. But signatures are simply not put under “empty declarations”.
      Quote: svp67
      The most important thing is that of these items almost nothing has been done ...

      Tooting. One can only guess that they received the Anglo-Saxons in return for the fact that the USSR was able to refuse to fulfill the obligations taken on 24.09.1941. obligations.
      For some reason, I think that just at that moment France, as the fourth main winner and beneficiary, drew up. Here, I have a chuyka. And she rarely fails me.
      Well, maybe something else, of course.
      1. stalkerwalker 16 January 2017 01: 04 New
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        Quote: JS20
        I want to upset you, but in 1941. participation of the Red Army in the decision of the future could well be minimal.

        The military leadership of the Red Army in the summer of the 41st made practically unmistakable moves. Tymoshenko’s only attempt was to inflict a severe defeat on the 2nd Panzer Group in a battle in the Senno-Lepel area with mechanized corps.
        Unfortunately, even the best and most equipped mechanized corps suffered from a lack of mobile artillery and motorized infantry. Therefore, attacks often began without artillery preparation and, as a result, anti-tank weapons were not suppressed. As a result, the tanks were burning before reaching enemy positions.
        Under the dominance of the Luftwaffe in the air on the Western Front, the Germans conducted air reconnaissance effectively. The columns of the mechanized corps mercilessly bombed on the march and during the manufacture of the attack. The calculations of the guns (which were already in short supply) were lost, light tanks were damaged.
        It was the absence of German aviation in the defense zone of the Southwestern Front that allowed the Red Army mechanized corps to inflict the most effective losses on the Wehrmacht.
        1. JS20 18 January 2017 01: 57 New
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          Quote: stalkerwalker
          The military leadership of the Red Army in the summer of the 41st made practically unmistakable moves.

          And who is arguing? Military operations were conducted not far from Berlin and Frankfurt, apparently.
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Even the best and most equipped mechanized corps suffered from a lack of mobile artillery and motorized infantry.

          Red Army in 1941 broke up into brigades. Separate, in fact. Because the brigade is the maximum than in 1941. could be led by Soviet "commanders". For more they did not have qualifications.
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          It was the absence of German aviation in the defense zone of the Southwestern Front that allowed the Red Army mechanized corps to inflict the most effective losses on the Wehrmacht.

          It is a pity that the Wehrmacht did not know about this.
  20. kalibr 17 January 2017 15: 59 New
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    Therefore, normal honest citizens of the former USSR do not accept you and do not respect you.

    Alexander, but what normal and honest citizens in your country could not do anything? First, the Soviet Union pro ... whether. Now they put their second homeland on their feet ... on? What are you doing there, I wonder?
    1. Alexander Greene 17 January 2017 20: 37 New
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      Quote: kalibr
      Alexander, but what normal and honest citizens in your country could not do anything? First, the Soviet Union pro ... whether. Now they put their second homeland on their feet ... on? What are you doing there, I wonder?

      The fact is that among us, such as you and your sister JS20, who hanged noodles on our ears, many have believed. But Stalin was no longer among us ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. kalibr 18 January 2017 13: 48 New
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        You can cheat half a fool, not smart! So, everything about whom you write "us", including yourself, are such, right? It pleases, light bread is more pleasant than heavy. And why, then, did our leaders fail to "conquer" the same in the States, in France ... so that they would do the same there? What was not enough, mind, education, pennies were Nem? And about Stalin ... "The master, as he arrives, the master will judge us!" And what are you - will you be donkeys? Then you not only deserve noodles on ears, but also manure on a shovel for a scruff!
        1. Alexander Greene 18 January 2017 21: 14 New
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          A colleague, you are an educated person and you understand that Marxism is a science, in order to assimilate it you need to make certain efforts, or "cook" in a factory boiler for about 10 years, so that a collectivist socialist consciousness is instilled in you. But petty-bourgeois individualistic ideas “my hut with a punishment” are unscientific, and they are easier to assimilate.
          Unfortunately, by the time the Union collapsed, petty-bourgeois consciousness already prevailed among the Soviet people. Khrushchev laid the foundation for this, and then agents of influence had a hand in it, and now the trolls of whom you are so eager to support are trying.
          1. Alexander Greene 18 January 2017 21: 38 New
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            Colleague in the continuation of the topic, take a look at the material on the links.
            http://pkbu.ucoz.ru/load/1-1-0-86
            http://pkbu.ucoz.ru/publ/6-1-0-86
            http://pkbu.ucoz.ru/publ/6-1-0-117
          2. kalibr 21 January 2017 18: 50 New
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            You see, you yourself wrote that everything is over with Marxism. Passed into the category of history, as the theory of Anaximander or Anaximenes. "Consciousness has already prevailed!" And who will fix it now? Communist Party? It’s not funny for yourself?
            1. Alexander Greene 22 January 2017 00: 33 New
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              What makes you think that Marxism is over? I didn’t say that. On the contrary, Marxism is the only ideology that will save the world. Do not repeat the bourgeois scribblers who wrote that Russia in 1917 did not reach the revolution, because Marxism is applicable to developed countries, and today when Russia is a developed country, they already write that Marxism is outdated. Where is the logic?
              1. kalibr 24 January 2017 21: 40 New
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                And who told you that there was a revolution in Russia in 17? In Russia there was the Ukrainian Maidan ...
                1. Alexander Greene 25 January 2017 19: 55 New
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                  Colleague, you are either pretending and really so dark. The whole world admits that in 1917 there was a revolution in Russia, and only you alone doubt it. Sorry, but I am starting to doubt that you are a normal person and that you can communicate.
  21. Alexander Greene 19 January 2017 23: 16 New
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    [JS20,
    Quote: JS20
    And this is generally pure criminality. Bringing to suicide. Look, Green, hound me. And then you have to answer.

    Unfortunately, people like you do not shoot ...
    1. kalibr 21 January 2017 18: 51 New
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      Norma, Alexander - is immortal!
      1. Alexander Greene 22 January 2017 00: 35 New
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        Do you mean JS20? I would say the opposite to him - a rotten rudiment.
        1. kalibr 24 January 2017 21: 42 New
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          The fact that it is rotten and especially rudimentary must be proved by something more than your writings. In any case, your opinion is the opinion of a loser!

          "by the time of the collapse of the Union, the petty-bourgeois consciousness already prevailed among the Soviet people" You wrote it! And do you know a means to teach our people Marxism today? Would teach their better. And we will look at your attempts!
          1. Alexander Greene 24 January 2017 23: 29 New
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            According to the first paragraph. I’m not going to prove it, he faded for the cordon and we are doing very well without it - it means a rudiment. A rotten? - Because it climbs to us with its vile comments.

            According to the second paragraph. I know and teach. And today, no matter how hard you try to defame these ideas, they are increasingly taking control of the masses.
            So take care of the budennovka ....
  22. alexander.arier 16 June 2017 12: 58 New
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    a very good article for old sovieticuses and new clematis.
    all the same, truth always climbs.