Military Review

And again about the "28 Panfilov"

259
So I was honored to see "28 Panfilov."




The first thought I had when the captions went (with the cities in front of each last name - a great "trick", bravo) - all directors who made films / series about the Second World War of the last 10 years - should go, and quietly, without attracting everyone's attention, hang in the toilet! Well, maybe, excluding N. Lebedev (Star), M. Ptashuk (In August 44) and A. Kott (Brest Fortress).



Later, when the “WOW effect” passed a little, and the brain acquired the ability to perceive reality more adequately - I began to seek out all sorts of roughness, and even nastiness.



Let's start with the minuses (of which there are many).

Firstly - the general fun, ukharskaya zabalagurenost heroes! They are all constantly joking, sypyut bikes, jokes and all sorts of tales, as if every second is Vasily Terkin, and every third is a corporal Svyatkin. By the way, many people found a similarity of the film with “Aty-bata, there were soldiers” and “Hot snow” - in a good way, and this is a plus for the film.

But we are now about cons.

So - they always joke around - whether it is staying in the village before the battle, or in the frozen trench under the fire of German howitzers, or even worse, when two dozen Panzer men and a chain of German infantry crawls in 500 meters.



And it is already clear that they are suicide bombers, and “there are four steps to death” - but no, we are still talking about a bitch.
At first, it somehow slipped, but by the end of the film it became frankly straining!
Although, we must pay tribute to the writers - the five phrases from the film will definitely go to the people, it really hurts!



Secondly - it’s nice, of course, to finally see adequate time and place of action Tanks Enemies - such as they MUST be, and not those hordes of freaks who have been wandering around our cinema / television screens lately. However, either the budget was not enough, or the “draftsman” faked it, or the editor spoiled it, but some enemy boxes look very drawn, or even cardboard-plywood (especially in the background).





Thirdly, the impersonality of the heroes, the closeness of the individual on the general plane. Maybe this is good, maybe this is the director's idea, but I don’t like it ... I don’t look for anyone. Klochkov was remembered right away, the Kazakhs, and even a couple of characters, the armored riders, and that was that. And when they were all bloated / polluted during the battle, it was not at all clear who was who.



Fourthly - only the lazy of critics did not mention this - stories about “Seven Samurai” / “The Magnificent Seven” (a remake of Akira Kurosawa) / ”300 Spartans” ... Well, why? To understand the modern audience? To draw parallels? Well, the nonsense is complete ... and it looks completely organic.

In this sense, the trenching legend of 14 grenades, abandoned by the Germans in the dugout, where there was one of the current Panfilov members, fell to me much more. But he threw them back ... and remained alive ... and does not like to talk about it ... and the grenade, in fact, was only five ...



Fifth, authentic treshki is, of course, good. But was the park of the attackers so monotonous? We should look at the composition of the Panzervaffe operating in that area - wasn’t there really been a single “Deuce”, Pz-38 ???



Now let's talk about the pros.

And again on the tanks ... Despite some rough edges - not bad, very good! And the scale of the battle is present, and vrazhin are burning as it should and where necessary. And how does the caterpillar fly off from the forty-armor-piercing armor-piercing? Well this holiday some! And close-ups of the Pancer are, in general, pleasing to the eye.





Lack of media characters! There are practically no faces exposed in the movie / body bodyagas, and the main characters delight with a well-chosen type and adequate game. Definitely a plus creators!





Lack of pathos / globality. Everything, in general, is quite chamber-like, within a couple of kilometers in diameter ... There are no big commanders, the state arms committee, the General Staff, Comrades Stalin and Zhukov. Even Panfilov - and there is none! A sort of "local fights" that saved Moscow ... And I like that!



General work with entourage / makeup and fighting scenes. I read somewhere that all the explosions were real, not computer, which the creators are very proud of. I believe! Because they are truly real! Persons / hands, clothes of heroes during the battle, clods of earth falling asleep to a fighter in a trench - I believe! SVT is ... PPD ...



Following the traditions of good Soviet cinema about the war - it has already been noted above.



One episode: when already “all the cartridges are over, there are no more grenades”, the fighter finds some piece of iron at the bottom of the trench (he didn’t understand what he found), and, in desperation, throws it into the advancing German chain. There follows the heart-rending cry "Granathen" and the Fritzes lie. This is followed by a close-up of a German in a helmet and “balaclava” (the close-up of the enemy in the film is practically only the eyes). He understands that this is not a grenade at all and gives a signal to rise with his own ...

Nothing like that?

“Officers”: Alexey Trofimov, who fights in Spain, gets out of a wrecked tank, and, throwing a wounded French brigademan on his back (who the hell is there), firing off, leaves him at the hands of his enemies. In one of the moments, he tears off his boots from the French and hurls them at his pursuers. Franco fallen on the pavement, thinking it was a grenade ... Looks like?

It should be noted "not killed a machine gunner" on the flank.



"Maxim" with a smooth casing - where did you last see this? I am in the films about the Civil in 70's. And he also without the usual shield, which adds brutality to his master. It smacks of Hollywood, of course, especially when the five survivors, having joined bayonets, clutching knives, saping and axes in their hands, are waiting for the Germans to go into their “final and decisive battle”, they suddenly see how the foes from the merciless, leaving no one behind alive in the fire of a living "maxim" ... and right before the goosebumps!





Summarizing: "28 Panfilov" will be in my collection of films that I want to revise again, for example, May 9, or even just like that.



PS All of the above was born within two days, does not claim to be true and is solely the opinion of the author.
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 5 January 2017 06: 40 New
    25
    The only negative of this film is Panfilov’s overly obsessively stressed internationalism. The rest are far-fetched. Especially about jokers in battle.
    1. g1v2
      g1v2 5 January 2017 07: 25 New
      103
      He was skeptical about the film. I did not think that our contemporaries would be able to feel that war. When I looked, I changed my mind. It is shot exactly as it should.
      As for internationalism, that is how we were taught in the union. What does not matter what your nationality is in the passport in the column - most importantly you are a Soviet person. It was somehow natural. request
      About the jokes .... I don’t know, every time in my life when blood was whipping from me or if I received a serious injury, I always humored on the machine. It seems like blood is whipping, but it blew me on haha. KVN recalled and so on. When scary in theory, too. The normal defensive reaction is so for many. Nervousness was often covered with jokes, anxiety there and so on. Incidentally nothing strange in the constant jokes in the film I do not see. request
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 5 January 2017 07: 27 New
        20
        Quote: g1v2
        Nervousness was often covered with jokes, anxiety there and so on. So nothing strange in the constant jokes in the film do not see

        That's what I'm talking about! hi
        1. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 6 January 2017 04: 34 New
          +1
          The rest are far-fetched. Especially about jokers in battle.

          Ingvar 72 Yesterday, 07:27 ↑
          Quote: g1v2
          Nervousness was often covered with jokes, anxiety there and so on. So nothing strange in the constant jokes in the film do not see
          That's what I'm talking about! hi

          You really decide.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 6 January 2017 08: 24 New
            +8
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            You really decide.

            In what? The author of the article recorded jokes in battle in the minuses of the film, because believes that this can not be. I wrote that the rest of the minuses are far-fetched, i.e. I know that people under fire often joke over danger. And this is normal. hi
            1. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 6 January 2017 13: 38 New
              33
              Ingvar 72 Today, 08:24 ↑
              I wrote that the rest of the minuses are far-fetched
              Hello everybody! I'll put in my five cents. Last night we watched this film for the fifth time. So, in my opinion, to argue about what tanks the Germans have and what casing on the "Maxim" machine gun, if not stupid, then simply useless, you can find fault with any trifles if you wish. This is not the point. In my opinion, from a historical point of view, the film is made in the top five, but there is one BUT. It seems to me that the film has only one, but a very significant disadvantage. I liked the film, really liked it and I will revise it, but not as often as "Officers", "Only old men go to battle", "They fought for the Motherland", "The dawns here are quiet" and many other Soviet films, and you know why. Again, in my purely personal opinion, this film lacks one thing, drama. When I watch "Officers" or any other of the films I have listed, I cry, but what am I crying, it happens to cry, but here I have not watched, well, there are no tears and that's it. There is nothing in him that would take for the soul, some elusive moment that sinks into the soul of the viewer. I don’t find it, no matter how hard I tried. Everything seems to be good and the dialogues, and the entourage and the acting, but something is missing and that's it, for the life of me!
              Something like this, but in general the film is gorgeous, at least from the post-Soviet films about the war, it is, if not the most worthy, then one of the most, certainly cannot be compared with all sorts of "citadels" and "they fought for Katya "(in the sense of" Stalingrad "movie hats of Bondarchuk Jr.), for" Penal battalion "," Bastards "and other rubbish in general I will not say anything ...!

              All with past and upcoming !!! love
              1. Talgat
                Talgat 7 January 2017 11: 30 New
                +5
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                from a historical point of view, the film is made on the top five, but there is one BUT

                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                lacking one, dramaturgy

                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                but in general the film is gorgeous


                You definitely noticed - the film is good and correct - but the drama is not enough - it’s a pity they didn’t finish it -

                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                all sorts of "citadels" and "they fought for Katya" (in the sense of "Stalingrad" movie hats Bondarchuk Jr.), for "Penal battalion", "Bastards" and other rubbish in general I will not say anything ...!


                I fully support - the modern "bourgeois" cinema does not hold a candle to what it was during the "scoop" - and they also lie
                1. veteran66
                  veteran66 9 January 2017 13: 11 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Talgat
                  modern "bourgeois" cinema does not hold a candle to what it was with the "scoop"

                  Yes, you are right not to "cling" to modern crafts about the war, except for some films: "Cadets" by Todorovsky and "Life and Fate" by Grossman. Everyone looked 2-3 times and still want to.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. pilot8878
                pilot8878 9 January 2017 19: 26 New
                +4
                quote = Diana Ilyina] This film lacks one thing, drama. When I watch "Officers" or any other of the films I have listed, I cry, but what am I crying, it happens to cry, but here I have not looked, well, there are no tears and that's it. [/ quote]
                And what, pardon my French, drama in the ass? There is no other word for that situation. No tears because there is no individual, "Private Ryan". And it is not there because there is no time to reflect. There is a task, there is a means. Scanty, but there. There is no chance of survival. Therefore, one must not die heroically, but survive as long as possible in order to have time as much as possible.
                Therefore, there is no individual. By the way, besides Klochkov, who else will name at least one fighter? So that without getting into the Internet? Because the feat is not individual. Each of them was called by name, patronymic, and together they became "Klochkov's platoon." A platoon into history and gone.
              5. Evver
                10 January 2017 20: 04 New
                0
                Thank you for your feedback, Diana, and you - with the past and the upcoming! And plus your feedback (despite the "maxim" laughing )
      2. avt
        avt 5 January 2017 09: 58 New
        32
        Quote: g1v2
        Incidentally nothing strange in the constant jokes in the film I do not see.

        As well as the search for fleas by type
        "Maxim" with a smooth casing - where have you seen this last time? I'm in films about Civil in the 70s.
        Author! When you write something like that again, then how to look at the chronicle of THOSE YEARS, for example, what the same Moscow militia was armed with, well, with what rifles and machine guns they went to the front, regiments there with wheels from the First World War ... .yes, just a parade on Red Square on October 7, 1941, where they are walking with "Lewes".
        Fifth, authentic treshki is, of course, good. But was the park of the attackers so monotonous? We should look at the composition of the Panzervaffe operating in that area - wasn’t there really been a single “Deuce”, Pz-38 ???
        Does the author really know the exact composition, right down to the numbering of the machines advancing on that day and time? wassat I can only disappoint - in life it is even more boring and monotonous even than in the movies, because of the World of the same tans and I can’t talk! Mouse click devices in real life for pleasing the eye somehow do not dance. By the way! The author can be sure that the German chronicles are neatly laid out, and not even staged.
        1. Stanislav 1978
          Stanislav 1978 5 January 2017 10: 17 New
          56
          I learned about all the minuses of this film only after reading the comments of various critics, while I watched the film, there was no time to peek out the minuses, because I WAS watching the film.
        2. Evver
          5 January 2017 10: 35 New
          13
          Read my comment below, and note that I wrote the "maxim" with a smooth casing in the PROS of the movie!
          About tanks - where I wrote that I KNOW? I asked the question - could there be other models of tanks, that's all ...
          It seems that you are looking for fleas in my text, which in fact are not request
        3. Red_Hamer
          Red_Hamer 5 January 2017 13: 16 New
          14
          On the defense section of Solnechnogorsk - Krasnaya Polyana, where the 16th Army under the command of Konstantin Rokossovsky fought, they fought with siege weapons of 6 inches in caliber during the Russo-Turkish war! Moreover, they fought wonderfully! Good memory to Major General of the Russian Imperial and Soviet Army Kozlovsky David Evstafievich!
      3. Baloo
        Baloo 7 January 2017 12: 48 New
        +1
        I don’t know, every time in my life when blood was whipping from me, or I was seriously injured, I always hummed on the machine
        This saved me from shock. In a moment of danger, one has only to close one's eyes, as the brain disconnects from reality as a defensive reaction. And this is followed by "robbery", the blood is transferred to the maintenance of vital organs. And then a vicious circle - a decrease in the blood supply to the brain leads to a deterioration in the centers of breathing control and cardiac activity ... hi
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2017 07: 59 New
      10
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The only negative of this film is Panfilov’s overly obsessively stressed internationalism. The rest are far-fetched. Especially about jokers in battle.

      I agree ... reminds of the "tolerance" of Hollywood, necessarily white-black-yellow and generally "multi-colored" ..
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 5 January 2017 08: 17 New
        51
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        I agree ... reminds of the "tolerance" of Hollywood, necessarily white-black-yellow and generally "multi-colored" ..

        So the division in Kazakhstan was formed in fact.
      2. Baloo
        Baloo 7 January 2017 12: 51 New
        +5
        I agree ... reminds of the "tolerance" of Hollywood, necessarily white-black-yellow and generally "multi-colored" ..
        Art should also have an educational role.
        The best war films were made by those who fought on their own. The current generation is more focused on rental efficiency. hence the glamor of the cultures.
      3. veteran66
        veteran66 9 January 2017 13: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        "tolerance" of Hollywood, necessarily white-black-yellow and generally "multi-colored" ..

        asexual forgotten))
    3. Stas57
      Stas57 5 January 2017 10: 31 New
      13
      The only negative of this film is the overly obsessively stressed internationalism

      there is no internationalism there, there is nationalism, some mythical Russians, the complete absence of Soviet, Stalin, and some Kazakhs who are the same Russians, well, this is purely nonsense
      and completely in the trend of RVIO. the history of the country without Soviet.


      Especially about jokers in battle.

      for me, the joker is completely empty and feigned,
      of the minuses 150 mm shot, tearing behind the back of the hero does not even throw to the ground, and was longer left a mess.

      in general, the film is high-quality, good - and a very expensive reconstruction, but heroes who are completely untouched by the soul, alternating with the speed of the frame.
      the second time I will look at purely looking at the Rehnsky nyashki, such as the GDR pouches.

      I would put a movie 3 +
      for comparison, Belarusian BC -4 +
      1. Awaz
        Awaz 5 January 2017 10: 49 New
        +8
        in BC there are also a lot of mistakes and dies ... In Panfilov’s just a slightly different approach. In principle, there is nothing so terrible when all this Soviet pathos and all that is not portrayed. But nevertheless, I am for historical truthfulness ... somehow, both Stalin and generally Soviet reality should appear in the film, at least neutrally
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 5 January 2017 11: 22 New
          21
          there are also a lot of mistakes and dies in BC

          of course, therefore not 5

          but there is the main thing, to whom you empathize, and there are many of them, for example, the NKVDshnik personally touched me, for example, with carnations on boots ...
          in xnumx I was indifferent to the fate of flickering heroes
          In principle, there is nothing so terrible when all this Soviet pathos and all that is not portrayed. But still, I am for historical truthfulness ... somehow, both Stalin and generally Soviet reality should appear in the film, at least neutrally

          no, pathos is unnecessary, you can just say the Soviet Union’s political officer at least once, or mention that his speech is about the whole world watching words from Stalin’s words on Mayakovskaya, but alas, the modern trend, starting from drapery of the mausoleum, ending with scum boards does not allow talking about Stalin and Soviet in a positive direction.
          and Scallop wasn’t particularly eager ....
          Presenter: Andrei Gennadievich, and who fought with whom in this film?
          Scallop: Russians vs Germans

          Presenter: And not the Soviet Union against fascist Germany?

          Scallop: No, the Russians actually fought against the enemies. This is very important because we fought for Moscow at that time. Of course, Moscow was the capital of the Soviet Union, but it was also the capital of Russia, it is the main city of Russia ... ... If we fought for Kazakhstan, we would be united under the Kazakh banners.

          Anchor: Is the phrase “Soviet soldier”, “Soviet people”, “Soviet Union” never sounded in the film - is this the director’s conscious position?

          Scallop: Yes!


          ps. but in general this is what kind of shit it was necessary to feed people for 30 years, so that they perceive the average film as a masterpiece
          1. igoryok1984
            igoryok1984 5 January 2017 19: 09 New
            +9
            Quote: No, the Russians actually fought against the enemies. This is very important because we fought for Moscow at that time. Of course, Moscow was the capital of the Soviet Union, but it was also the capital of Russia, it is the main city of Russia ... ... If we fought for Kazakhstan, we would be united under the Kazakh banners.
            This is what must happen in a person’s head in order for such nonsense to be said. According to his logic, one of the RSFSR fought. The rest of the republic type is not the case. However, he still whitewashes twice the traitor Dobrobabin
          2. Awaz
            Awaz 6 January 2017 10: 30 New
            +4
            here I agree stoplusov. Any film should reflect Soviet reality. After all, even the old Soviet films about tsarist Russia, poorly poor tsars and some of their servants were never forgotten and often even shown positively. But in Panfilovtsy, on the basis of what was filmed before, a completely adequate approach. In any case, there are no anti-Soviet cliches that are present in all new war films shot in modern reality, even among Belarusians.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. bakhshiyan rachik
              bakhshiyan rachik 9 January 2017 18: 50 New
              +4
              firstly, a very high-quality film; secondly, horror for the liberals; there were no horror detachments behind them; in the third, they really fought for their homeland
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. The comment was deleted.
          3. goncharov.62
            goncharov.62 6 January 2017 12: 56 New
            +1
            Probably, against the background of "Stalingrad" - "Viking" and other masterpieces under the direct leadership of Ernst, we still will not see this ...
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 6 January 2017 21: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: AwaZ
          But still, I am for historical truthfulness ... somehow, both Stalin and generally Soviet reality should appear in the film, at least neutrally

          The film was partially shot with the support of the Ministry of Culture of Russia and the RVIO, but Stalin is not favored laughing
      2. Uncle
        Uncle 5 January 2017 14: 14 New
        +9
        Quote: Stas57
        heroes completely untouched by the soul

        Precisely, there is no dramaturgy in the film. Characters are shown flat, one-sided. The action there is quite uniform, and this is understandable, but it’s impossible to understand how you live before the war and what the hero lives during the war. The influence of Hollywood is too great, only action.
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 5 January 2017 14: 33 New
          +5
          Quote: Uncle
          The influence of Hollywood is too great, only action.

          the plane of the heroes is not the influence of Hollywood, it is the banal inability of the young filmmakers, alas, not Mikhalkov (with all my dislike for the late, early Nikitasergeich shot great films)
          1. Uncle
            Uncle 5 January 2017 14: 39 New
            +7
            Quote: Stas57
            alas, not Mikhalkov

            It doesn't make it any easier. In Soviet times, filming was much more interesting. It seems that "young directors" are simply not familiar with Russian classics. Why do you need their crafts after "Ivanov's Childhood", "Checks on the roads", "Only old men go to battle", and other works?
            1. Stas57
              Stas57 5 January 2017 15: 08 New
              +9
              Quote: Uncle
              Why do you need their crafts after "Ivanov's Childhood", "Checks on the roads", "Only old men go to battle", and other works?

              alas, alas, that’s why I didn’t put 3 above, because there is Zamansky who is already chilling on the back, there are Nakhapetov ... The punishment! ..., there is a sobbing traitor Gostyukhin. and I don’t give a damn about pouches, tigers, etc. in these films, this movie makes me.
              on 28, I honestly looked at the Reonsky nyashki — like a German belt with a star, or post-war GDR pouches for Mos. This is a movie-expensive recon because:
              Alas, this generation is not able to shoot about that war, because we lost the thread of generations, but Belarusians do not, therefore, BC is higher than 28.
              But when they write to me - "a lump in my throat", "my soul broke off", "strangled with tears" about 28, it becomes strange to me, suffocated with tears - "Come and see" or "Ascent", strangled "Ivan's Childhood", and here beautiful reconstruction, and complete soullessness.
      3. Gray brother
        Gray brother 5 January 2017 17: 34 New
        +9
        Quote: Stas57
        there is no internationalism there, there is nationalism, some mythical Russians, the complete absence of Soviet, Stalin, and some Kazakhs who are the same Russians, well, this is purely nonsense

        If the Russians are mythical, then who are you then? Stasik - ...
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 5 January 2017 18: 17 New
          +3
          If the Russians are mythical, then who are you then

          watch a movie for a start
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 5 January 2017 18: 18 New
            +5
            Quote: Stas57
            watch a movie for a start

            Today, the second time revised.
            1. Stas57
              Stas57 5 January 2017 18: 31 New
              +5
              Well, tell me, is it for the Russians who are Kazakhs themselves, but suddenly became Russians, because they are fighting for Moscow?
              And the Russians who became Kazakhs because they were going to fight for Kazakhstan?
              aren't they mythical?
              1. Gray brother
                Gray brother 5 January 2017 18: 37 New
                +5
                Quote: Stas57
                Well, tell me, is it for Russians who are Kazakhs, but suddenly became Russians, because they are fighting for Moscow?

                For fraternal people do not hide in the bastard, especially if you live in the same country with him and this country rests on them as well as on you.
                Who do you not love anymore, Kazakhs or Moscow? Not Natsik, by chance?
                1. Stas57
                  Stas57 5 January 2017 18: 42 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Gray Brother
                  For fraternal people do not hide in the bastard, especially if you live in the same country with him and this country rests on them as well as on you.

                  not Julia, I’m even asking you, what kind of Russians are those who cross the border and become Kazakhs?
                  1. Gray brother
                    Gray brother 5 January 2017 18: 49 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Stas57
                    not Julia, I’m even asking you, what kind of Russians are those who cross the border and become Kazakhs?

                    Ordinary citizens of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
                    1. Stas57
                      Stas57 5 January 2017 18: 55 New
                      +6
                      Ordinary citizens of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

                      it’s not a word combination in the film,
                      but there are some mythical Russians and Kazakhs.
                      what I said about 5 hours ago,
                      there is no internationalism there, there is nationalism, some mythical Russians, the complete absence of Soviet, Stalin, and some Kazakhs who are the same Russians, well, this is purely nonsense
                      1. Gray brother
                        Gray brother 5 January 2017 19: 17 New
                        +9
                        Quote: Stas57
                        it’s not a word combination in the film,
                        but there are some mythical Russians and Kazakhs.
                        what I said about 5 hours ago,

                        This is just a five-second dialogue between the fighters.

                        Maybe, of course, you are confused that the topic of socialism and the role of the Communist Party in the life of the Soviet people is not disclosed in the film, but the movie is not about that at all.
                        By the way, the struggle of the Soviet multinational people with the fascist invaders is quite shown there.
                        Extra words there is nothing - and so everything is clear.

                        Why do you call the Russians "mythical"? Even Stalin (a Georgian) did not allow himself to do that.
                2. Operator
                  Operator 5 January 2017 20: 17 New
                  +3
                  Gray brother

                  Stas57 - Komi-Permyak from Syktyvkar laughing
                  1. Gray brother
                    Gray brother 5 January 2017 21: 25 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Operator
                    Gray brother

                    Stas57 - Komi-Permyak from Syktyvkar laughing

                    I suspect that Muscovites drink his blood. The buckets. lol
                3. goncharov.62
                  goncharov.62 6 January 2017 13: 00 New
                  +3
                  Gray brother, don’t be silly and don’t get out Stas is right.
              2. Razvedka_Boem
                Razvedka_Boem 6 January 2017 04: 36 New
                +3
                Russian is a state of mind.
    4. ivanov17
      ivanov17 5 January 2017 18: 41 New
      +5
      No, of course, it seems to you that some soldiers called others .. they called them, and they answered them, you yourself ... well ... In those days, internationalism was in fact. Veterans themselves told about this. They sat in one trench and death didn’t choose a nationality. You confuse with the current Russian Federation apparently with respect to migrants
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The only negative of this film is Panfilov’s overly obsessively stressed internationalism. The rest are far-fetched. Especially about jokers in battle.
    5. Kirill Petrov
      Kirill Petrov 5 January 2017 19: 38 New
      12
      far-fetched. Especially about jokers in battle.
      you did not die. it was not so with you that it is not known whether you will live in 2-3 days or not. it is incomprehensible to you that before death many people "wake up" Irony and Black humor, or Longing and Hysteria.
      (I know what I'm talking about, you can take my word for it, although I don't care)
    6. murriou
      murriou 6 January 2017 04: 57 New
      +9
      What don't you like? The USSR really was a single state, there were really many Kazakhs in the Panfilov division, Soviet people usually did not rush about with the nat. questions - and therefore won the war, all together.
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 7 January 2017 13: 03 New
        +8
        What don't you like? The USSR really was a single state, there were really many Kazakhs in the Panfilov division, Soviet people usually did not rush about with the nat. questions - and therefore won the war, all together

        Babai said that in the war, Muslims were cooked separately for them without pork. Horse meat or beef or just oatmeal, respecting tradition. And in the second grade they asked an essay to tell how the grandfathers fought. I ask how I fought. Babai says everyone was advancing and I was advancing, everyone was retreating and I was retreating. All in scars from wounds. I ask and the tank knocked out, knocked out. And so he wrote on the post page. The late Antonina Stepanovna, bright memory of her kindest soul, put a deuce. My grandfather did not like to remember the war, he did not wear awards. Although we had a thick folder with letters and award documents.
        What is the argument about? Modern filmmakers do not know the war, did not serve in the army, did not defend the Motherland, what they can understand about life and death, military fraternity, patriotism.

        Panfilovites is one of the eternal symbols of the duty to the Motherland, the people, and their loved ones. Blessed memory of them. And Bilzho and others like him are just g **** o, who, out of his selfish interests, tries to show off, spitting on the bright images of the defenders of the fatherland. I am not a fan of Gazmanov, I didn’t serve, I didn’t wear epaulettes and don’t wear, but when I hear his song "Officers", I involuntarily get up ... hi drinks soldier
    7. balabucha
      balabucha 6 January 2017 17: 57 New
      0
      Internationalism doesn’t smell like it. All the same, the Kazakh SSR has existed for a long time.
    8. Aqela
      Aqela 8 January 2017 15: 41 New
      +2
      There is no "too much" there - the division was formed in Kazakhstan.
      Moreover, Panfilov was at the same time the chief military commissar in Kazakhstan and the division was assembled "for himself." In general, considering how much Panfilov did heap in the shortest possible time of his combat activities, if not for his death, I believe that he would have been one of the best commanders of the Great Patriotic War ...
    9. Vend
      Vend 9 January 2017 10: 57 New
      0
      The film is definitely a plus. This is no longer Soviet cinema, but not liberal either.
    10. Spnsr
      Spnsr 10 January 2017 22: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The only negative of this film is Panfilov’s overly obsessively stressed internationalism.

      But in the Soviet Union it was different? back in the late 80s of the last century, this trait was expressed, which quietly died away and turned into non-international analysis!
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Especially about jokers in battle.

      were you in battle? if not, then you should not say ... otherwise they would have begun to perceive it differently, especially when the fathers, commanders in the absence of the Bylagurs, began to cheer the fighters, almost joking!
      but in war, I don’t know what was there, but I think it was precisely this bylograss and ostentatious internationalism that 28 Panfilov’s did
  2. 210ox
    210ox 5 January 2017 06: 46 New
    41
    Well, now I will say ... I also do not pretend to be true. The film was shot well. And its goal is to tell the current generation that besides Captain America, the Hulk and other goblins, there are real Heroes, and there is a place for Feat in life ... that a respected author found, or maybe deliberately looked for roughness, well, it's on his conscience .. People watch films about real Heroes! And not the fictional ravings of Hollywood ..
    1. Wild_grey_wolf
      Wild_grey_wolf 5 January 2017 07: 10 New
      +6
      Remarkably said, I agree with every word, especially under this.

      Quote: 210ox
      ... The fact that a respected author found, or maybe consciously searched for roughness, well, it's on him conscience..

    2. Ivan Ivanov
      Ivan Ivanov 8 January 2017 15: 08 New
      +1
      It is a pity that the director deliberately crossed out Soviet reality, replacing the national one, although it was the Soviet one in my opinion that was the main one.
  3. Comrade Stalin
    Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 06: 56 New
    21
    I liked the film, really liked it. The film shows the war as it really was: a brutal struggle against Hitler's Nazism, which is rolling on its native land with a steel roller, destroying everything in front of itself, it shows ordinary Soviet soldiers with their selfless love for the Motherland, for their relatives, faithful oaths and fellow soldiers. In this film, thank the creators, there are no liberal cliches about political instructors shooting for no reason, there are no barriers shooting in the backs of their soldiers, there are no drunken battalions and generals with pewter eyes who send soldiers to certain death in a senseless attack, there are no reflective intellectuals, no cattle lieutenants and captains, spitting, insulting and humiliating the commander in front of the formation of his subordinates. There are no idiots cadets walking towards the enemy without an order and poking a German tank with a bayonet, no soldiers with a wooden door on their backs, as if a pine board can stop a splinter, there are no humane Germans who donate chocolates to the soldiers of the Red Army, who do not bomb medical transports or killing gypsies. I downloaded the movie recently in torrents and watched it again, and saved it in hard, to review it from time to time. The film turned out to be successful and good, in no way inferior to "Saving Private Ryan".
    True, there are flaws, but this is more likely from a meager budget:
    1) in attacking German soldiers for all two attacks I saw only one MG-34, although in every German branch 1 relied on a light machine gun, that is, on 10 soldiers the 1 machine gun. That is, if a company comes, then the machine guns should be for 10 pieces.
    2) the Germans do not have bayonets on rifles, although they go on the attack and must be ready for hand-to-hand combat.
    3) when fired, the ATGM shutter automatically opens, the loader only needs to insert a cartridge and close the shutter. In the film, each time the shutter is opened manually. It is clear that they shoot at idle, and the energy of the idle shot is not enough to open the shutter, but you could think of something.
    4) The variety of weapons of the German infantry is extremely poorly shown - only the k98, MP-40 rifles, once shown the MG-34, and that’s all. Although the company should have looms, 50-mm mortars, and even 75-mm infantry guns could be attached.
    5) Combat in the film lieutenant. This is too much. Would make at least older.
    6) Attacking tanks shoot very little machine guns, although in theory, when attacking, they should water all in front of themselves with bullets. Recalled tanks from the Call of Duty, where tanks only shoot guns.
    Well, it seems like flaws in my opinion, this ends.
    Oh yes, I especially liked how a soldier kicks a German tankman inside into a tank and throws Molotov cocktails after him into the tower :).
    1. svp67
      svp67 5 January 2017 07: 43 New
      +9
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      for attacking German soldiers for all two attacks, I saw only one MG-34, although in each German branch relied 1 light machine gun, that is, 10 soldiers 1 machine gun. That is, if a company comes, then there should be 10 machine guns.

      Well, here you can take two arguments as a counter-argument:
      - and who said that this German unit was not battered in previous battles
      - and remember the words of one of our "jokes": "MG is a good machine, but you need to fight with it, after washing your hands well, otherwise it will go crazy"
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      Germans do not have bayonets on rifles, although they go on the attack and must be ready for hand-to-hand combat.

      Actually, the Germans had CARBINE. Although the bayonet was attached to it of course. What surprised me in the last throw of the Germans was the following - where are the Germans grenades? So what, but they knew how to storm the trenches from the First World War and the tactics were worked out. The last throw should have been preceded by grenade throws ...
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      when fired, the shutter of the PTRD automatically opens, the loader only needs to insert the cartridge and close the shutter.

      I don’t know, it seems they say that the shutter is semi-automatic, but apparently it’s such semi-automatic that you had to do everything for it ...


      unlike PTRS
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      Attacking tanks shoot very little machine guns, although in theory, when attacking, they should water all in front of themselves with bullets. Recalled tanks from the Call of Duty, where tanks only shoot guns.

      These tanks are from "World of Tanks", one team worked on the drawing.
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      Combat in the movie lieutenant. This is too much. Would make at least older.

      You are wrong. Judging by the insignia, and these are "two sleepers" he is in the rank of MAJOR. At 6 minutes and 7 seconds of the film, his insignia is visible on his overcoat.
      Is such a title enough for a battalion commander?

      By the way, they have a company captain
      1. Comrade Stalin
        Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 10: 21 New
        +2
        and who said that this German unit was not battered in previous battles

        The Germans, at least until the middle of the war, if the unit lost more than 25% of the personnel, then it was withdrawn to the rear for replenishment. In the German infantry company, the state relied on 12 machine guns. Really out of 12 machine guns, 11 machine guns were lost? And the German comrade, exactly following the requirements of the Charter, would throw his soldiers without machine guns in the attack?
        In fact, the Germans had CARBIN

        What a carbine, what a rifle, there is not much difference. Moreover, 98k had a trunk length of 600 mm, which is only 13 cm shorter than the trunk of our Mosinka 91/30. It can also be called a carbine with a stretch, since, for example, in SVD the barrel has a length of 620 mm, and the Mosin carbine has a barrel length of only 510 mm. That is, the 98k barrel is much closer to the SVD than to the Mosin carbine.
        This rank is enough for the battalion commander

        Uh, he thought he was a regiment commander, and he turned out to be a battalion commander. Although, the battalion commander should have the rank of lieutenant colonel.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 5 January 2017 14: 29 New
          +3
          Read the works of Soviet times about the war, where the battalion commanders are almost always majors.
          1. Svidetel 45
            Svidetel 45 5 January 2017 22: 59 New
            +4
            And often the commanders of battalions, losses in the initial period which everyone knew, were captains and lieutenants.
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 6 January 2017 14: 15 New
            +1
            In principle, then, there was no devaluation of military ranks. Still, the lieutenant colonel for the Soviet (Russian) battalion, smaller than the American in size two, two and a half times, probably a bit too much. Maybe I'm wrong. To me, as an amateur, it’s excusable.))
        2. Awaz
          Awaz 6 January 2017 11: 51 New
          +2
          for all the German pedantry, the Germans had problems with the L / S. Even in the summer, they did not have time to replenish their units fully, and even when Moscow was in close proximity, and the resistance of the Red Army increased, the Germans threw everything they could into battle. I've read German bulletins. In just a month of fighting in the center of the Army Group Center, the advanced units of the Wehrmacht lost 90 percent of their junior command personnel and up to 70 percent in general. I also read the memoirs of German soldiers, who, like Soviet soldiers, sometimes defended themselves to the last and went on counterattacks in order to knock out the battered Red Army soldiers from the positions surrendered by themselves, having half or less even personnel. In war, anything can happen, and given the frost that came, when the Germans began to have problems with equipment and uniforms and ammunition, it is quite possible to believe in anything. I think that with all the shortcomings, the guys, the creators, have thoroughly studied the possible course of events of that battle and all that.
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 5 January 2017 11: 54 New
        +3
        ? So what, but they knew how to storm the trenches from the First World War and the tactics were worked out. The last throw should have been preceded by grenade throws ...

        yes, all the more in the plot the foundation was already prepared - the fighter who threw grenades, but alas, the Germans in the film are stupid zombies
      3. 0255
        0255 5 January 2017 11: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        These tanks are from "World of Tanks", one team worked on the drawing.

        These are tanks from War Thunder from Gaijin Entertainment, which are much more beautiful and realistic than Wargaming.
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 5 January 2017 08: 17 New
      +1
      Comrade Stalin, you say: "The battalion commander in the film is a lieutenant. This is too much. They would at least make a starter" Let me tell you, what's wrong with that, after all, 1941. And as a foreman of Sholokhov he commanded a regiment. In a battle, there was no time to comply
      1. Comrade Stalin
        Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 08: 45 New
        +1
        Sholokhov wrote fiction, not historical essays. In his arts he could think of anything.
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 5 January 2017 12: 17 New
          +4
          In my practice, the contract sergeant became the battalion commander, in 99 during the storming of Grozny
    3. Evver
      5 January 2017 09: 09 New
      +1
      You see, and you found something of your own that did not suit you ... But consciously I was looking for or not ... I just wanted the film, which I unconditionally liked, to have fewer blunders and absurdities ...
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 5 January 2017 21: 23 New
        +7
        Quote: Ever
        I just wanted to see less blunders and absurdities in the film, which I unconditionally liked ...

        Do not worry - you have expressed your personal opinion in the form of an article. Already commendable, based on the number of stars yes wink
        But criticism must be respected. For how many people on Earth - so many opinions request
        You can with humor, you can with seriousness.
        I generally have a separate attitude towards people who criticize films (any). In such cases, I always say - gentlemen, and you take off better ??? Maybe you would like capital reliability, but only dreams are ideal. If there are a number of basic things that characterize the era, the mood of the film, then it’s already good. If the authors of the film would bother with detailing, they would not shoot a feature film, but a manual for arming a Wehrmacht company from a division there in the winter company 41-42gg wassat
        And if 1-2% of the audience understands such trifles as the number of machine guns in the German branch, then the remaining 98-99% simply do not care - give them the plot, action and patriotism yes Feature films are feature films, not documentaries. wink
        I watched a film for a long time, in my opinion about Marinesco. So there graphists in the Baltic "Scharnhorst" drew, that simply, well, it could not be lol But I did not bother, for the history of man was more important than the drawn ships request
        Everything is relative wink hi
        PS Look and love fiction, like me, then vague doubts will not torment fellow drinks
        1. Pathos
          Pathos 10 January 2017 11: 41 New
          0
          That's right. The film was shot more than realistic, even the rinks of German tanks and divination look real. The guys did a good job. Technique for 5+. And there is no fucking count who has how many farts in the film. Just watch the movie. And do not cling to the game of one actor, in this film everyone is good. All good films often come out with unknown actors. And star compositions remove stellar mutoten. The same Bondarchuk was filming Stalingrad. I didn’t watch it until half asleep. 2nd attempt I also spat, turned off the dregs and the rest of the war films Fedi and others like them sleep, Fantastic is super Fed !!! So let him take off fiction laughing . They say Panfilov’s drama is not enough ??? Yes, at the end of the film my wife was crying, watching in one breath, she said you would be reviewing without me. Such should be films about the war.
    4. Walking
      Walking 5 January 2017 11: 13 New
      +5
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin


      2) the Germans do not have bayonets on rifles, although they go on the attack and must be ready for hand-to-hand combat.
      3) when fired, the ATGM shutter automatically opens, the loader only needs to insert a cartridge and close the shutter. In the film, each time the shutter is opened manually. It is clear that they shoot at idle, and the energy of the idle shot is not enough to open the shutter, but you could think of something.
      .


      I don’t remember where I read, but according to the recollections of veterans of the First World War, it was noted that the German infantry practically does not use bayonets on rifles in hand-to-hand fights, they are more familiar with butt attacks.
      After the shot, the ATGM shutter itself did not open, there are no semi-automatic guns there, for each shot it was necessary to manually open and close the shutter. If you yourself are not in the know, look on the Internet.
      By the way, it was the fighters of the Panfilov’s division who were the first to use the front-and-rear engines.
      1. Comrade Stalin
        Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 11: 38 New
        +4
        The wiki says that theoretically, when fired, the barrel with the receiver and trigger boxes and the bolt retreat back under the pressure of powder gases to the bottom of the sleeve, which causes the shock absorber spring to compress. The shutter handle, having reached the curved edge of the tide of the outer tube, begins to slide along it and turn left. The combat protrusions of the shutter exit due to the support protrusions of the receiver and stand against the longitudinal grooves. The shutter, moving by inertia back, is separated from the rear edge of the barrel, and the ejector hook removes the sleeve from the chamber. When the sleeve is against the lower window of the receiver, the reflector pushes it out from under the hook of the ejector. The shutter stops in the rear position, having stumbled upon the bolt delay with the left combat ledge.

        German infantry practically does not use bayonets on rifles in hand-to-hand fights, they are more familiar with butt blows.

        To hit the butt, you need to allow the enemy close. With a rifle with a bayonet per meter, you can hold the enemy, let him dance with his butt. If it came to hitting the butt, then it is better to have pistols, since 1-2 meters are better than pistols.
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 5 January 2017 12: 19 New
          +1
          The Germans did not go to hand-to-hand combat, and therefore did not fasten their bayonets. Our way in the 45 g., When they smashed the Kwantung army, also stopped going with bayonets.
          1. svp67
            svp67 5 January 2017 13: 53 New
            +5
            Quote: glory1974
            The Germans did not go to hand-to-hand combat, and therefore did not fasten their bayonets.

            They even had special signs "FOR THE CLOSE FIGHT" and he had THREE DEGREES.
            The badge was introduced in order to mark the courage and valor of the foot soldiers, who repeatedly won hand-to-hand combat

            Soldiers directly involved in hand-to-hand combat were awarded. The proximity of the battle was determined by the fact that the soldier saw during the battle
            “The whites of the enemy’s eyes”


            “Bronze Sign” - 15 days of hand-to-hand combat.
            “Silver Sign” - 30 days of hand-to-hand combat.
            “Golden Sign” - 50 days of hand-to-hand combat.

            During the Second World War were awarded:

            Bronze sign - 36 people
            Silver - 9 400 people
            Gold - 631 people.
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 5 January 2017 14: 03 New
              +2
              In fiction I read like: "he was awarded a badge for 4 hand-to-hand fights." I knew that there were such signs.

              The question arises: is it really for one badge to beat with a butt and prick with a bayonet 50 days? Even for the gold?

              And I meant that, according to the memoirs of the war veterans, the Germans did not like to go into bayonet attacks. And at the beginning of the war, it made no sense to risk it in hand-to-hand combat. This was not encouraged by the command.

              In the war with the Japanese, ours stopped going to bayonets, because the Japanese are a cut above the Fritz in hand-to-hand combat. All the same, karate, samurai, etc.
              1. Walking
                Walking 5 January 2017 14: 41 New
                +2
                Friends visit the Military Album website. There are a lot of photos of Germans in battles and after the battle, and not where bayonets are attached to carbines.
                1. Stas57
                  Stas57 5 January 2017 15: 31 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Hiking
                  Friends visit the Military Album website. There are a lot of photos of Germans in battles and after the battle, and not where bayonets are attached to carbines.

                  the problem is that -
                  - our four-guard ones also did not always adjoin (unless a staged photo)
                  - authentic photos of melee do not exist - there is no time for photos
                  - before the battle S1884 / 98III is easy to put on at any time
                  - After the battle, S1884 / 98III is easily removed and hides in its sheath.
                2. svp67
                  svp67 5 January 2017 15: 42 New
                  0
                  Quote: Hiking
                  Friends visit the Military Album website. There are a lot of photos of Germans in battles and after the battle, and not where bayonets are attached to carbines.

                  Systrannnoooooo. And this is apparently an "optical illusion"



              2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 January 2017 21: 38 New
                +3
                Quote: glory1974
                In the war with the Japanese, ours stopped going to bayonets, because the Japanese are a cut above the Fritz in hand-to-hand combat. All the same, karate, samurai

                Ummm .... Tell a person who has been involved in hand-to-hand fighting for about 10 years (mainly Japanese) how can karate help with a bayonet?
                1. Glory1974
                  Glory1974 5 January 2017 22: 24 New
                  +1
                  Meant widespread martial arts in Japan. And then karate is not only a fight with hands and feet, but also with different weapons: nunchaku, shuriken, and so on, katana sword fights. According to the memoirs of the war veterans, the Japanese were good at bayonet fighting.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 January 2017 01: 11 New
                    +3
                    Quote: glory1974
                    And then karate is not only a fight with arms and legs, but also with different weapons: nunchucks, shurikens, and so on, katana sword fights

                    With your permission, karate is translated as the path of an empty hand, so swords and shurikens are a bit from another opera. In itself, karate as a single combat requires space for maneuver, ideally a wide, flat platform. In the trench conditions, karate is the last thing a fighter needs, because long hand-to-hand exercises can cause a feeling of false self-confidence, while a classic setokan or kekushinkai in such conditions and especially against an armed person is almost completely useless.
                    Samurai, who also learned to use weapons ... there were few of them corny. In addition, I would not vouch for the fact that the Japanese fencing school was superior to the European. nunchaku / shuriken are the specifics of ninjas who are frankly weak in close combat and who have nowhere to come from (in some commodity quantity) in the army.
                    Quote: glory1974
                    According to the memoirs of the war veterans, the Japanese were good at bayonet fighting.

                    So no one argues, because they were taught this. Like the Red Army, by the way, since if my memory serves me right (and if it does, it’s interesting with whom?), Then among the European armies of the USSR the only one practiced training in bayonet fighting. Even for this reason (and taking into account the best physical conditions of Soviet soldiers), the Japanese could not dominate in hand-to-hand combat by definition.
                    1. insular
                      insular 6 January 2017 04: 34 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      while the classic setokan or kekushinkai in such conditions, and even more so against an armed person, is almost completely useless.

                      Forgive me, dear, but I don’t know what kind of martial arts you have been practicing for a long time and what does it have to do with Kyokushini and the Second World War, if Masatutsu Oyama was a military pilot at that time and studied judo and boxing, but judo and boxing themselves are in close contact in confined spaces, are often more effective skills for removing the enemy from a combat state, especially an enemy armed with a long stick like a rifle than any other skill.
                      And against a trained fighter who has studied martial arts for years and not every ordinary soldier will cope with a pistol. It's me ABOUT THE CONDITIONS OF CONTACT FACE TO FACE FROM ANGLE.
                      Something seems to me that you didn’t go to the dancing club.

                      Having been practicing kekushin for 6 years (not much actually, even very little) and judo for 7 years, I have a very good reaction and the most important skill is the ability to group and reflexively close vital areas of my body, which helps me a lot even in elementary people falling. Namely, a reaction in a suddenly changing environment is exactly what saves life, and not the ability to jump legs or hands. Even a well-placed strike is not so important for the reflex use of the enemy’s open vulnerabilities.
                      It is reflexes and reaction, that’s what martial arts are taught in combat use.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 January 2017 19: 51 New
                        +2
                        Quote: insular
                        Excuse me, dear, but I don’t know what kind of martial arts you have been doing for a long time.

                        Judo, setokan, boxing. In addition, I had the opportunity to get acquainted with some types of kung fu, kickboxing, Thai boxing, our army melee, kadochnikovym and a number of other hand-to-hand combat systems.
                        Quote: insular
                        and where does the Kyokushini and WWII

                        I wrote somewhere about Kyokushinkai in WWII? :))) Be careful, please :)
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        while the classic setokan or kekushinkai in such conditions, and even more so against an armed person, is almost completely useless.

                        What does the Second World War? It is about the inability of karate to such conditions
                        Quote: insular
                        but judo and boxing alone, in close contact in confined spaces, are often more effective skills for taking an opponent out of combat condition, especially an opponent armed with a long stick like a rifle than any other skill.

                        One question - have you ever worked against an enemy armed with a pole and having at least basic skills about its use (pole)? :) I've been here before, and you know what? It turned out that for some reason my judo / karate skills against a stick do not roll, well, that's all :))
                        Here it is necessary to fight against a man trained in bayonet fighting - this is even more dangerous.
                        Quote: insular
                        And against a trained fighter who has studied martial arts for years and not every ordinary soldier will cope with a pistol.

                        This is exactly what he meant when he wrote about a feeling of false self-confidence. I assure you that a single contact against a man armed with a pistol will dissuade you in your point of view. And it’s good if the gun misfires or it turns out to be gas and you stay alive.
                        Even if you are a master in hand-to-hand combat, a knife or (even more so!) A gun in the hands of your opponent will be mortally dangerous for you. The whole melee in this case gives you a not too big chance to survive (an unprepared person will have practically no such chance).
                        The only exception is if you took action before the enemy took out a weapon, but in a war you won’t have this advantage
                        Quote: insular
                        Something seems to me that you didn’t go to the dancing club.

                        I don’t think so - I’m saying for sure that you haven’t been able to get into any kind of serious trouble with the use of knives and / or firearms.
                        Quote: insular
                        Having been practicing kekushin for 6 years (not much actually, even very few) and judo for 7 years, I have a very good reaction

                        Maybe. However, classes for 1,5-2 years in classic English boxing would give you a no worse reaction.
                        Quote: insular
                        and the most important skill is the ability to group and reflexively close vital areas of your body

                        It all came in handy to me when six people attacked me at the same time - I did not win, but despite a long beating with my hands and feet of all the losses - a bit of chipped enamel from the tooth (there was no point even going to the dentist), bruises and bumps are not considered.
                        But this will not help you against the knife or, especially, the bayonet - you will not close.
                        Quote: insular
                        It is reflexes and reaction, that’s what martial arts are taught in combat use.

                        That's just against the armed, and who knows how to use their weapons, all this is categorically insufficient.
                    2. Glory1974
                      Glory1974 6 January 2017 14: 55 New
                      +1
                      He referred to the opinion of the war veterans, because he had heard firsthand. At first he was also surprised, but he read literature, and realized that the veteran had not lied a single gram.

                      And karate, as I recall, arose among the peasants to counter an armed enemy either empty-handed, because it was forbidden for them to have weapons, or with improvised means. And the peasant's improvised means are various household tools.

                      And you probably did pure sports karate. I was practicing judo, and our coach showed tricks from the combat section, where for example, you do not just grab a kimono, but you strike, after breaking you break your fingers on the opponent’s hand.
                      insular below intelligently commented agree with him at xnumx%
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 January 2017 20: 24 New
                        +1
                        Quote: glory1974
                        And karate, as I recall, arose among the peasants to counter an armed enemy either empty-handed, because it was forbidden for them to have weapons, or with improvised means. And the peasant's improvised means are various household tools.

                        You remember wrong :))
                        Quote: glory1974
                        I was practicing judo, and our coach showed tricks from the combat section, where for example, you do not just grab a kimono, but you strike, after breaking you break your opponent’s fingers.

                        Scary, already scary :)))
                        You are in a trench, on the parapet there is an enemy and stabs you with a bayonet from top to bottom. What will you grab him for? The enemy jumped into the trench, his rifle with an attached bayonet directed in your direction. What capture will you spend? :)))
                        And by the way, have you ever paid attention to how kimonos for judo are made? After all, this is a special form, sewn so as to "hold" the grip of the enemy. Against a person wearing a regular shirt, a classic grip with a high degree of probability will lead to the fact that the shirt will tear, which, in fact, the classic "over the thigh" and will end, while you find yourself with your back to the opponent. The gymnast, of course, is not a beach shirt, but also not a kimono.
                        Quote: glory1974
                        insular below intelligently commented agree with him at xnumx%

                        Well - then read my answer to him
                2. DM51
                  DM51 9 January 2017 13: 23 New
                  +1
                  That's why Andrei, you’re big +, I myself was engaged in Russian hand-to-hand combat, but after I received a very serious injury in training, I stopped, and before that I was engaged in both sambo and boxing and a bit of karate and I know that martial arts are completely not suitable for hand-to-hand combat
                3. PHANTOM-AS
                  PHANTOM-AS 9 January 2017 13: 51 New
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  how can karate help with a bayonet?

                  None !!!
                  I remember "Bullet is a fool, well done bayonet!"
            2. Glory1974
              Glory1974 5 January 2017 15: 28 New
              +3
              In addition, continuous stay at the front for a certain time was counted accordingly for a certain number of days of hand-to-hand combat.
              The gradation of time served was as follows:
              • Eight months of continuous service were equivalent to hand-to-hand fighting for 5 days;
              • Twelve months of service were equivalent to hand-to-hand fighting for 10 days;
              • Fifteen months of service equated hand-to-hand combat for 15 days.
              The term "hand-to-hand" was understood as a battle in which the warring parties used melee weapons: knives, bayonets or hand grenades. The starting point on the Eastern Front was 22 of June 1941, on the African continent - 26 of March 1943
              The command (at the division level) had the right to present for the award wounded soldiers who, due to the injuries received, could not serve the established minimum term:
              • “Bronze” degree— 10 days minimum;
              • “Silver” degree - 20 days minimum;
              • “Gold” degree - 40 days minimum.

              In the article "The main thing in the tactical training of the infantry" ("Krasnaya Zvezda", 1946, No. 63), Lieutenant General Gerasimov writes: "The following data are also interesting: out of 1 attacks, the enemy took (allowed to hand-to-hand combat) 282 (372% ), and in 29 cases (910%) he avoided hand-to-hand combat. " The combat regulations of the Red Army infantry unambiguously demanded: "The ultimate combat mission of the infantry in an offensive battle is to smash the enemy in hand-to-hand combat."
        2. Walking
          Walking 5 January 2017 14: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Comrade_Stalin
          The wiki says that theoretically, when fired, the barrel with the receiver and trigger boxes and the bolt retreat back under the pressure of powder gases to the bottom of the sleeve, which causes the shock absorber spring to compress. The shutter handle, having reached the curved edge of the tide of the outer tube, begins to slide along it and turn left. The combat protrusions of the shutter exit due to the support protrusions of the receiver and stand against the longitudinal grooves. The shutter, moving by inertia back, is separated from the rear edge of the barrel, and the ejector hook removes the sleeve from the chamber. When the sleeve is against the lower window of the receiver, the reflector pushes it out from under the hook of the ejector. The shutter stops in the rear position, having stumbled upon the bolt delay with the left combat ledge.
          .


          To charge the PTRD, it is necessary to perform the following actions [2]:

          turn the shutter handle to the left (the bore is unlocked);
          take the bolt back to failure (the bolt lag rests against the back plane of the left combat ledge of the bolt and holds it in the receiver);
          put the cartridge on the guide bevel of the upper window of the receiver and send it to the chamber;
          send the bolt forward (the bolt moves the cartridge into the chamber, and the striker’s platoon, having stumbled upon the sear of the trigger, stops the striker, holding it on the combat platoon);
          turn the shutter handle to the right to failure (the bore is locked, the mainspring receives the greatest tension, the ejector hook pops into the sharpening of the sleeve of the sleeve, the sleeve of the sleeve reflector is sunk in its socket).

          Here it is written how the loading system on the PTRD works, not which automation is not there, for each shot you need to turn the shutter, by the way, this link is from the wiki to which you refer. What you showed is the work of automation, you probably mixed up the type of PTR.
    5. Stas57
      Stas57 5 January 2017 11: 40 New
      +1
      1) in attacking German soldiers for all two attacks I saw only one MG-34, although in every German branch 1 relied on a light machine gun, that is, on 10 soldiers the 1 machine gun. That is, if a company comes, then the machine guns should be for 10 pieces.

      The variety of weapons of the German infantry is extremely poorly shown - only the rifles K98, MP-40, once shown MG-34, and all. Although the company must have looms, 50-mm mortars, and even 75-mm infantry cannons can be attached.

      yeah, and also 4 type of guns, mortars, there would be stupidly 5 cm everyone would seeded in life ...
      Well, in principle, everything happened in life - the Germans broke through and completed the task of the day

      2) the Germans do not have bayonets on rifles, although they go on the attack and must be ready for hand-to-hand combat.

      not every recon has a bayonet to the Mauser, that's all))

      Well, it seems like flaws in my opinion, this ends.

      oh well, but the change of position is 45
      and a change of position with a machine gun.
      and the complete lack of communication as such, messengers must run back and forth.
      and the complete absence of any panic among ours, panic and fear is normal, everyone had it, it’s just like in airsoft, the only panic is to be the first to catch the table.
      the work of 45 and the evacuation of the wounded are well shown,
    6. Duisenbay Bankankulov
      Duisenbay Bankankulov 5 January 2017 11: 40 New
      +7
      And you read A. Beck "Volokolamskoe highway" there the senior lieutenant commands the battolion, and then the division. Baurzhan Momysh - uly, a native of Kazakhstan, wrote books about the war ...
      1. igoryok1984
        igoryok1984 5 January 2017 19: 27 New
        +1
        Wonderful book
    7. Stas57
      Stas57 5 January 2017 11: 56 New
      0
      ) when fired, the shutter of the anti-aircraft engine automatically opens,

      as already correctly noted - this is not so
    8. Uncle
      Uncle 5 January 2017 14: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      The film turned out to be successful and good, in no way inferior to "Saving Private Ryan".

      They really amused, comrade Stalin. smile I add that the film is more realistic than all the films with Schwarzenegger combined. You apparently found what you were looking for. However, it is worth watching films of the Soviet era about the war, there are more techniques and extras are richer and real people.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 5 January 2017 15: 10 New
        +2
        Rain is a good film about THEIR war, setting the tone for the style of naturalism.
        to 28 it can be pulled as well as the War and Peace of Bondarchuk
    9. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 5 January 2017 19: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      5) Combat in the film lieutenant. This is too much. Would make at least older.

      Remembering the epic blockade
      - What was commanded?
      - By platoon, company, battalion.
      - For what feats is such a rapid advance?
      - The German helped ...
  4. svp67
    svp67 5 January 2017 07: 21 New
    12
    I have to say I liked the movie. He is not an advanced youth, he does not have a Hollywood action. No love, no melodramas. It’s just about the fact that when it seems that everything is already, not just you, but everyone around you is faced with the choice to rest and stand or quit everything and run, everyone chooses to STAND and WIN, and they succeed.
    And I really liked the thought that sounds "it's easy to die and stop, but you stop and stay alive"
    or the editor made a mistake, but some enemy boxes look very drawn, or even cardboard-plywood (especially in the background).
    What do you want? They are almost all painted with a computer ...

    Lack of media characters! There are practically no faces lit up in the movie / body
    I do not agree, there are plenty of them in the film. Just a single form, and then the dirt on their faces makes them little recognizable externally. But they play well.
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 5 January 2017 11: 41 New
      +3
      And I really liked the thought that sounds "it's easy to die and stop, but you stop and stay alive"

      Today, the lads do not need to die for their homeland Today, they need to live for their homeland
      yes, it has already become a meme, especially if you take into account that it was said by Dobrobabin, who managed to serve both ours and Germans and again ours ....
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 5 January 2017 12: 22 New
        +1
        Who told you that this is about Dobrobabin?
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 5 January 2017 12: 32 New
          0
          did you watch a movie? well look and questions will disappear
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 6 January 2017 21: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Stas57
        then this was said by Dobrobabin, who had time to serve both ours and the Germans and again ours ....

        For objectivity .....
        https://auto.mail.ru/article/62
        900-propaganda_ili_massovyi_geroizm_28_panfilovce
        v_75_let_spustya /

  5. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 5 January 2017 07: 43 New
    +2
    In one of the comments for the film it was written: they command to load a cannon with a caliber, and it explodes next to a high-explosive fragmentation tank. It also seemed to me that the film was shot without the involvement of military consultants.
    1. igordok
      igordok 5 January 2017 08: 25 New
      +1
      When I was little, according to Soviet films of those times, it was believed that every hit of a tank leads to a rupture of the caterpillar. Nice visual effect. And in "28 Panfilov's men" often, also, a blow to the armor, and the caterpillar slides. This is perhaps the only "minus" that I noticed when watching the movie.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 5 January 2017 12: 23 New
        0
        The caterpillars were substandard and often crawled on their own, and if you still help her?
        1. your1970
          your1970 5 January 2017 14: 24 New
          +1
          It can be added that on ordinary Soviet tractors of 70 years, the caterpillars flew / broke just like that, without any explosions, just from the load ... In some of the VD countries (in my opinion, I don’t remember the Czechs for a long time), the tankers changed the tracks to new ones on alarm and then they went to the reserve area ....
    2. Comrade Stalin
      Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 08: 48 New
      +1
      Sub-caliber appeared only in 1943, they were made on the basis of captured German sub-caliber shells.
    3. Evver
      5 January 2017 09: 20 New
      0
      Similarly, it was like that! wink
    4. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 5 January 2017 23: 12 New
      +2
      There were no sub-caliber shells in 41, but there were caliber armor-piercing shells which, if I am not mistaken, also had an explosive charge, but only in a smaller quantity than in a high-explosive fragmentation.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Monarchist
    Monarchist 5 January 2017 08: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: MainBeam
    In one of the comments for the film it was written: they command to load a cannon with a caliber, and it explodes next to a high-explosive fragmentation tank. It also seemed to me that the film was shot without the involvement of military consultants.

    In 1941 against tanks were used: armor-piercing and high-explosive shells, and sub-caliber shells appeared, sometime in 1943
  8. Monarchist
    Monarchist 5 January 2017 08: 45 New
    +6
    The comrades below have analyzed the cons of the film. Allow me to express my opinion: 1. This is one of the few modern films where there is no fashionable "chernukha" it is good. One comrade grumbles about internationalism, but there were many Kazakhs in the Panfilov division,
    1. Comrade Stalin
      Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 10: 27 New
      +4
      The same famous battalion commander Momysh-Uly was a Kazakh, and if you read the story "Volokolamsk Highway", there were many Kazakhs in his battalion. According to Wikipedia, the ethnic composition of the 316th division is as follows: Kyrgyz - 11% - Kazakhs - 11% - Russians - 67% - Ukrainians - 8% - the remaining 3% are representatives of other nationalities of the Soviet Union.
    2. Duisenbay Bankankulov
      Duisenbay Bankankulov 5 January 2017 11: 42 New
      +1
      In general, there were 36 nationalities in the division ...
  9. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 5 January 2017 08: 47 New
    +8
    Make a movie for the author yourself, and show us, here, in fact, the people on the knee made this movie. Could accept the film for what it is. Not everyone can be filmmakers and screenwriters - but now everyone can criticize while sitting on the couch, or lounging comfortably in an armchair.
    1. Evver
      5 January 2017 09: 19 New
      +4
      And I accept it as it is. And I admire the creators of the film, which, in fact, I wrote about in the first paragraph ... "... the Panfilovites" set a certain bar, which nowadays it is not a sin to be equal to more venerable directors and screenwriters.
    2. Voyager
      Voyager 5 January 2017 18: 33 New
      +2
      The most primitive answer that you can come up with, they say, do it yourself. There are authors of something, there are spectators. The task of the latter is precisely the viewing and expression of opinion and criticism.
  10. svp67
    svp67 5 January 2017 09: 42 New
    +4
    "Maxim" with a smooth casing - where have you seen this last time? I'm in films about Civil in the 70s.
    Do Molotov cocktails surprise you? Or the sappers have no mines? It's okay that the division was formed from attorneys and everything went into its armament, they swept out warehouses under a whisk, but there was still not enough weapons. Read "Volokolamsk highway", it's the same about this division. So the sight of "ancient" weapons does not surprise me. Moreover, it was used

    I honestly was more surprised how they dug trenches. No crowbars, no picks, just shovels and earth like fluff. But there already 40 degrees of frost have passed and the earth should have frozen well ...
    And he is also without the usual shield, which adds brutality to his master.
    Here, everyone chooses for himself. Moreover, they had a shield
    1. Evver
      5 January 2017 10: 21 New
      +4
      You probably did not understand me .. I meant that such "maxims" are not that rare - an extinct species in our cinema. And here he is, and shoots! This is about the entourage - only a plus !!!
      About the shield remember - was laughing
    2. Comrade Stalin
      Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 10: 31 New
      +5
      But there already 40-degree frosts have passed and the earth should have frozen well

      The fight at Dubosekovo was November 16, at this time of the year the land was just starting to freeze, and 40-degree frosts were in January 1942, but not in November.
      1. svp67
        svp67 5 January 2017 13: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: Comrade_Stalin
        The fight at Dubosekovo was November 16, at this time of the year the land was just starting to freeze, and 40-degree frosts were in January 1942, but not in November.

        Know different memories
        The fact that God is on the side of the defenders of Moscow, the Germans themselves noted. In the fall of 1941, on the approaches to the capital, hundreds of Guderian and Göpner tanks got stuck in impassable mud - heavy rains, atypical in scale for the Moscow region, affected. And in early November, on the contrary, unexpected frosts hit below 30 degrees. “On the day of the Parade on November 7, 1941, there was a terrible frost on Red Square,” Aza Agapkina, the eyewitness of those events, the daughter of Vasily Agapkin, the author of the march “Farewell to the Slav”, told AiF. - For my 92 years of life, I do not recall such colds. Frost struck as if to spite the Germans. "
        But it is subjective
        And here is the schedule
  11. Trevis
    Trevis 5 January 2017 09: 54 New
    +8
    A good film, with folk money!
  12. cyberhanter
    cyberhanter 5 January 2017 10: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: g1v2
    As for internationalism, that is how we were taught in the union. What does not matter what your nationality is in the passport in the column - most importantly you are a Soviet person. It was somehow natural.

    it doesn’t matter in the passport - it means not accenting
  13. Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 5 January 2017 10: 27 New
    +8
    for the money it’s a masterpiece !!!
    And there is no need to look for flaws here, it is better to look for them in films with a huge budget and with super fashionable and sought-after actors.
  14. parusnik
    parusnik 5 January 2017 10: 39 New
    10
    Oh ... okay ... here just now "Viking" looked, by the way, filmed with state money, not people's money, the budget is 28 and not worth it ... If the author wants to look for fleas .. "Viking" is the most ... here is a movie where horses, people, boats are mixed in a bunch, and some episodes are impossible to watch without surprise and laughter .. Lice and fleas are just teeming .. Well, the arrival of the Byzantine embassy in Kiev on the dromone .. How they passed the rapids on it .. And if they dragged around, how? .. But the best ... is when, like on a sled through the mud from a mountain on a dragon car ride ... Look author, you will find the minuses of 28 childish babble in comparison with the "Viking" ... In Soviet films about the war, sometimes there were also enough "fleas" ...
    1. Evver
      5 January 2017 10: 52 New
      +1
      And I am not interested in "Viking" ... I mean "neither ear nor snout" about that time, and secondly - when there is such a massive advertising campaign - I have a strong feeling that cinema is so-so.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 5 January 2017 11: 17 New
        +5
        I mean that time in general "neither ear nor snout"
        ... And it's a pity .. that I haven't seen an advertisement ... I hardly watch the TV set .. I fell for the poster .. I looked .. starring Danila Kozlovsky .. well, well .. I thought .. I look . Money down the drain .. And the hall was full of teenagers .. And they will believe that Nestor set out the chronicle just like in the film .. But they will not read it .. And then we are surprised by the sects of "Tartarians" and "new chronology" ...
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 5 January 2017 23: 21 New
        +1
        So it turned out in fact, the film "Viking" in my opinion is really so-so, it seems to me that it has little to do with historical reality, rather the dubious fantasies of the authors of the film on this historical theme and nothing more. And it also strains the money spent on its creation, the extras are so miserable, the Pecheneg raid on Kiev is represented by a hundred horsemen, more reminiscent of a gang of robbers from the great Murom road, for a billion it was possible to form a whole equestrian division for filming, probably the process of creating this film can be compared with construction of a football stadium in St. Petersburg.
    2. Walking
      Walking 5 January 2017 11: 21 New
      +5
      Viking is something, to withdraw for such money is g ... but. There are only solid bloopers.
      1. Sergey Onoprienko
        Sergey Onoprienko 5 January 2017 13: 32 New
        +7
        Exactly! For the budget of "Viking" Shallop would have shot an entire epic about the defense of Moscow on a world level.
    3. Uncle
      Uncle 5 January 2017 14: 31 New
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      by the way filmed with state money

      Looked at "Zoology", filmed by order of the Ministry of CULTURE! Guys, this is a disgusting p @ rnukha, I wanted to fuck. Where does government money go?
    4. Yereke
      Yereke 6 January 2017 19: 20 New
      +2
      yeah .. they still continue to shoot films where they show Slavs (Russians, Ukrainians ...) and Turks (Pechenegs..polovtsy -> Kazakhs, Tatars, Chuvash ..) wild hordes and uncouth barbarians) and, like, only thanks to Scandinavia, Normans were Russia was saved, and they got caught up in the fact that Ruriks were Slavs. Otherwise, the concept of humiliation of the Russian people will not work .. as with propaganda "yoke for 300 years" ..
  15. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 5 January 2017 10: 48 New
    +5
    I myself broke virtual spears in November before the film was released. He believed that the topic of the "Panfilovites" was too hackneyed and, in general, the feat was far-fetched. I changed my opinion. This battle is shown correctly from the historical point of view. And "magpies", and PTR, and not 28 of them ...
    The author pointed out everything correctly. Well, maybe too critical. If in this film the tanks in the background are "blurred" for him, then let him revisit Ozerov's "Liberation" again. The only thing that remained unclear is the title of the film. It does not say anything to an ordinary person (for example, an ordinary current schoolboy). Why Panfilov's men? With 28 in the middle of the movie, it's clear ...
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 5 January 2017 11: 21 New
      0
      If in this film the tanks in the background are "blurred" for him, then let him revisit Ozerov's "Liberation" again.
      ... Well, well ... "Liberation" .. still here and there .. "The battalions are asking for fire" .. remember the ending .. modern technology is being transported, of that time ...
      1. 97110
        97110 5 January 2017 12: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: parusnik
        modern technology is being transported, of that time ...

        Tradition ... A series of articles was on VO about armor. David and Goliath were painted in modern authors armor and modern authors with weapons. Nothing changes...
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 5 January 2017 23: 32 New
        +1
        Well, the film "Liberation" is still here and there, but in one Bulgarian film, I watched in "stagnant" times, episode 2 MV is shown, in which Soviet aviation comes to the aid of the Bulgarian partisans, who were imposed by punitive forces, and the role of assault aircraft without a twinge of conscience, they perform MIG-17
  16. bionik
    bionik 5 January 2017 10: 50 New
    +2
    ...... Lack of media characters! There are practically no faces lit up in the movie / body ... And here the author of the article got into a puddle. For example, this is Alexei Morozov, who played the political instructor Klochkov, appeared on Channel One (in prime time !!! (after the release of the evening program "Time")) in a mini-series "
    Mysterious passion "(the main hero Vakson (V. Aksenov)) just before the Panfilov's first night, and there are others.
    1. Evver
      5 January 2017 11: 32 New
      +3
      I practically don’t watch TV shows in prime time on Channel One ... And I wouldn’t, of course, get into a puddle!
  17. wandlitz
    wandlitz 5 January 2017 11: 00 New
    +4
    ... the soldier finds some piece of iron at the bottom of the trench (he didn’t understand what he found), and, in desperation, throws it into the advancing German chain. There follows the heart-rending cry of "Granaten" and the Fritzians lie down. This is followed by a close-up of the German in a helmet and a “balaclava” (the largest plan of the enemy in the film is practically only his eyes). He understands that this is not grenade at all and gives his sign to rise ...
    Nothing like that?
    “Officers”: Alexey Trofimov, who fights in Spain, gets out of a wrecked tank, and, throwing a wounded French brigademan on his back (who the hell is there), firing off, leaves him at the hands of his enemies. In one of the moments, he tears off his boots from the French and hurls them at his pursuers. Franco fallen on the pavement, thinking it was a grenade ... Looks like?

    During my first stay in the GSVG, I went on military service once from the Liberose training ground to my Zethain.
    One of my friends lit an explosive package and threw it out on the forest road, completely empty. The German IFA suddenly turned out of the corner in this "surprise". Literally two meters in front of the IFA hood, the explosive package is triggered.
    German sharply slows down. Then it starts to accelerate, trying to catch up with our ZIL-131.
    -That's what we think. Bumps into the police. We didn’t aim at him.
    And he is already catching up with us.
    My comrade takes out a paper bag from a duffel bag in which we had DP (doppayk) lying. He grabs a piece of fat and throws it onto the road ...
    German slows down ... Awaits explosion.
    We came off.
    And the author says "movie stamp" ....
    1. Evver
      5 January 2017 11: 26 New
      +1
      Where do I say "movie stamp" ???
      I talked about continuity ... Such an unobtrusive reference to "Officers", whether willingly or unwillingly ...
  18. Military Builder
    Military Builder 5 January 2017 11: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Comrade_Stalin
    Uh, he thought he was a regiment commander, and he turned out to be a battalion commander. Although, the battalion commander should have the rank of lieutenant colonel.

    but why should he be a lieutenant colonel, this is November 1941, the war, and the fact that he is a major and not a starle is already good.
    and now a fact: in 1989 (peacetime), when I entered the VU, the battalion commander was a colonel (who does not know the officer ranks at the VU higher ranks), after 2 years he retires for health reasons, his place is taken by the commander of one of the mouth of the school with the rank of major, after a few months receives the rank of lieutenant colonel
    1. 97110
      97110 5 January 2017 12: 26 New
      0
      Quote: War Builder
      yes why should he be a lieutenant colonel

      He served urgent. NSh (major) left for the GSVG, and SENIOR LIEUTENANT came to his post. Commander - lieutenant colonel, political commander - major, early combatant - captain. AND - NSH - SENIOR LIEUTENANT! (A little time has passed - a secret paper was lost at the chief of staff ...) So the rank on the staff list should be higher than the rank of the acting post. Then he will receive sooner or later the next rank. And, while occupying a position and having a rank corresponding to the staff list, the next rank shines only upon discharge to the reserve.
  19. Stas57
    Stas57 5 January 2017 11: 09 New
    +3
    And it is already clear that they are suicide bombers, and “there are four steps to death” - but no, we are still talking about a bitch.

    I repeat, there is no truth in this — not one turn, not a single authentic phrase, read Simonov, Sholokhov and the archives.
    See Shukshin, Burkov and Nikulin in the OCR

    Secondly - it’s nice, of course, to finally see the enemy’s tanks adequate to the time and place of action — such as they MUST be, and not those hordes of freaks who have been wandering around our cinema / television screens lately.


    in my beloved NKNV, the Tiger is not a topic at all, but Kononov, Pavlov, Borisov dozens of Shaliopin's 2 stand.

    yes, the tanks in 28 are left, there weren’t such tauhpanzer in 1 etc.

    Thirdly, the anonymity of the heroes, the blurring of an individual individual on the general plane. Maybe it’s good, maybe it’s the director’s idea, but I don’t like it ... I don’t have anyone to look at.

    I agree, the lack of experience for the hero translates this creation into a celebration of recons and a splash screen of a computer game.

    stories about "The Seven Samurai" / "The Magnificent Seven" (Akira Kurosawa's staff remake) / "300 of the Spartans" ... Well, why?

    no one understood the cockroaches of Schallope


    In this sense, the trenching legend of 14 grenades, abandoned by the Germans in the dugout, where there was one of the current Panfilov members, fell to me much more. But he threw them back ... and remained alive ... and does not like to talk about it ... and the grenade, in fact, was only five ...

    Great legend
    and? and then what? nothing, although they were obliged to beat this topic, but alas, passed by.
    left stupid understatement.
    Fifth, authentic treshki is, of course, good. But was the park of the attackers so monotonous? We should look at the composition of the Panzervaffe operating in that area - wasn’t there really been a single “Deuce”, Pz-38 ???

    were they in that area? neither in 11 nor in 2 they were not

    And how does the caterpillar flies from the armor-piercing "magpie"?

    Yeah, the track break sensor is just a break and immediately got up.

    Lack of pathos / globality. Everything, in general, is quite chamber-like, within a couple of kilometers in diameter ... There are no big commanders, the state arms committee, the General Staff, Comrades Stalin and Zhukov. Even Panfilov - and there is none! A sort of "local fights" that saved Moscow ... And I like that!

    but I don’t, Stalin, Zhukov and others are shown not because the bosses, but because they have made a contribution, and not a small one.
    Let me remind you that this is the merit of Panfilov, not Shallop, that they trained on the tractors there, that they were not mutilated there for 15 minutes, this should be a tribute to the divisional.
    But the Chaliop cockroaches ...

    General work with entourage / makeup and fighting scenes. I read somewhere that all the explosions were real, not computer, which the creators are very proud of. I believe! Because they are truly real! Persons / hands, clothes of heroes during the battle, clods of earth falling asleep to a fighter in a trench - I believe! SVT is ... PPD ...

    Well, yes, the Reons tried on 5!

    "Maxim" with a smooth casing - where have you seen this last time?

    )))
    here, here is this machine gun)


    and right up to the goosebumps!

    a strong moment, I already thought well, now the movie will start ... alas, the machine gunner ruined everything)

    Summarizing: “28 Panfilov’s” will be in my collection of films that I want to once again review, for example, 9 in May, and so it’s just that

    not pulling for review, went out and forgot.
    1. Pathos
      Pathos 10 January 2017 13: 46 New
      0
      my dear, did you expect to see tigers and panthers? at 41m? funky vinyl would come out laughing
  20. naive1966
    naive1966 5 January 2017 11: 10 New
    +2
    For some reason, no one noticed the absence of vapor from the mouth in the cold at the beginning of the film and the absence of mittens from the fighters.
  21. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 5 January 2017 11: 14 New
    +3
    "Maxim" with a smooth casing - where have you seen this last time? I'm in films about Civil in the 70s.
    And then what year was filmed?
    And by the way, this calculation from the movie is very similar to another legendary machine-gun calculation from Soviet cinema, also without a shield and mowed down the enemy is not sour. wink
  22. 0255
    0255 5 January 2017 11: 50 New
    20
    Anyway, the movie is great. The author of the article, I will disappoint you - None of the films about the war show this very war exactly the same as it really was, a real war is ALWAYS worse than in a movie.
    The film was shot very worthily, with a modest budget of 1,7 million dollars and despite the fact that "Panfilov's 28" is the director's second film. The tanks are beautifully drawn, and their grinding over the trenches is a masterpiece, while watching, I thought, "How would I be in the place of the heroes of the film"
    And yes, it's nice to watch a movie about the Second World War without love snot, sex life details Mikhalkov Kotov, noble fascists, giving our fighters chocolates and sobbing over the corpses of our soldiers on the topic "oh damn advice, how can you throw us corpses like that", "forced" to shoot at a crowd of Soviet people with shovel cuttings, complaining that "these Russians are wrong are at war "observing the Geneva Convention; without barrage detachments and mass shootings from coaxial machine guns, one rifle for three, accusations of the commander on the topic "oh, you bastard, why did you kill a soldier who just wanted to get water, because even animals at a watering hole do not eat each other", saving spiders in front of an optical sight, searching for a bath for a gift, raving about six-armed Indian whore and other "truth".
    1. Evver
      5 January 2017 12: 01 New
      +7
      So ... subscribe to your every word. soldier
  23. Mestny
    Mestny 5 January 2017 12: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Exorcist Liberoids
    Make a movie for the author yourself, and show us, here, in fact, the people on the knee made this movie. Could accept the film for what it is. Not everyone can be filmmakers and screenwriters - but now everyone can criticize while sitting on the couch, or lounging comfortably in an armchair.

    I will say a few words in support of the author of the article.
    The movie is filmed precisely for the purpose of being watched "comfortably lounging in an armchair", and not standing in the front line with stern faces.
    This movie is a COMMERCIAL project. That is, the task was to make money on the cinema. And since such a task stood, then it was necessary to do so in order to realize it.
    But, here we must pay tribute to the authors of the film. The idea of ​​collecting money "from the people" and even captioning at the end is an excellent commercial move to attract viewers to cinemas. Everything worked as it should. Those who handed over the money with foam at the mouth now prove to everyone that the film is excellent, that they went several times on their own, and even brought their friends-relatives with them (well, they can't admit that they turned out to be fools, and they were a little divorced ). What was actually required.
    Only they collected a little. And I'm afraid we won't see the next "people's film" - this commercial idea of ​​the authors is one-off.
    Regarding "not everyone should be directors." If you make a big movie for money, and then you are going to collect money from citizens for it, you simply MUST be a director, and a good one. Otherwise, you're just a fraud.
    I repeat once again - the movie "on the knee" is filmed either for their own, or then offered for free or at all cheap.
    Specifically, this movie could be a separate episode in the present, big movie. There, lovers of historical authenticity would discuss the intricacies of the location of rivets on the armor and the shape of the explosions of shells of various calibers. This reconstructive piece does not pull on a full-fledged film.
    The only goal achieved by the authors is that they managed to satisfy the army of fans of "historical truth" led by Yulins, Goblins and all kinds of "Scientists against myths", and at the same time replenish their wallets. We have capitalism, right? So why not capitalize on patriotism?
    One could say a lot - about cardboard faceless characters, about toy tanks with clods of earth, about a forest covered with snow ten meters from the front line after the enemy’s artillery fire. About the fact that such a movie does more harm than good with a cardboard lie about people indifferent to everything (who are not so common in real life).
    But all this is superfluous. The main thing is that this work has already sunk into oblivion, as it was not. Only fans from oper.ru and those who paid money continue the mantras about "the best film in history", but this chorus is gradually dying down. And what will remain for the authors? That's right, sell DVD to the same people, by the way, who have already gone to the movies. And then oblivion. As happened with all small-scale projects, regardless of the topic.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 5 January 2017 15: 43 New
      11
      Nobody tells you that this is the best film of all time. Everyone is tired of Chernukha, whom the Mikhalkovs and Bondarchuks treat us to. And in this sense, the film lived up to expectations. The rest is a matter of taste.
      1. Voyager
        Voyager 5 January 2017 18: 37 New
        +5
        From the point of view of the topic, its spirit and presentation of the above - the film is good. Such a movie must be made. But from the point of view of art, this is not a film, but just a big clip, with wild problems in the script, editing and dramaturgy.
    2. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 5 January 2017 23: 45 New
      +5
      Well, go and watch a film about Private Rainer then, you probably liked it better, but against the background of all that liberoid chernukha about the war that has been pouring from the screens in recent decades and given a modest budget, it’s a decent movie.
  24. AleBors
    AleBors 5 January 2017 13: 06 New
    13
    You can count machine guns as much as you like, argue about tanks and other jewelry, I will say this, I liked the film. After all the Mikhalkovo-Bondarchuk handicrafts, this is really a film about the war. And the fact that there is no attachment to the character and the main character is the merit of the director. All the heroes are there. And this is precisely what is emphasized in the film. And small rough edges, personally, I am ready to close my eyes to them ... My respect for the director. Thank God, a man appeared who made a real patriotic film. This should be shown to children. As well as the film "Officers".
    All IMHO, only personal feelings.
  25. Sergey Onoprienko
    Sergey Onoprienko 5 January 2017 13: 25 New
    12
    I agree with the author - the best Russian film in many years! I watched with pleasure.
  26. Volozhanin
    Volozhanin 5 January 2017 13: 54 New
    14
    I don’t know how it was with you, but I couldn’t swallow a lump in my throat when at the end they stood on the field, the survivors, and then they show the monument. Something I became sentimental towards old age ... I expected to see severed hands- legs, blood and intestines, like Nikita M. in "Anticipation" or Nevzorov in "Purgatory." And thank God.
    1. igordok
      igordok 5 January 2017 19: 13 New
      +6
      Quote: Volozhanin
      he couldn’t swallow a lump in his throat when they finally stood on the field, the survivors, and then they show the monument.

      Often, near the end of films, usually many people already gather and leave the hall. In the same film, even when the credits went, many were still sitting.
  27. Mestny
    Mestny 5 January 2017 14: 17 New
    +3
    Quote: AleBors
    After all the Mikhalkov-Bondarchuk crafts, this is really a war film.

    But I am afraid the viewer will not agree with you about "Bondarchuk's craft". Actually, I didn't agree, judging by the box office.
    There is no need to repeat after some citizens their categorical conclusions about this or that movie. Moreover, you do not know for certain from what considerations these citizens are proceeding, so furiously throwing mud at a specific movie from specific directors. The reason is definitely not patriotism or striving for "truth", but certainly banal money.
    This film could help to bring up the correct perception of Russian history, the revival of patriotism, and so on only in one case - it was necessary to show it wherever possible, in schools, in cinemas for the symbolic price of a ticket, put it in the public domain.
    In the current form of commercial rental, it immediately turned into a movie of low quality that was unnoticed by the bulk of the audience.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 5 January 2017 15: 46 New
      +3
      flashing "citadel" failed at the box office. Does the fact that we live under capitalism really reject patriotism?
  28. Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 5 January 2017 16: 28 New
    +2
    But I didn’t look and I won’t look. All these agitation with jokes-jokes is complete rubbish. The battle of Moscow is not only the joy of victory, but also a great tragedy. Why did the German reach Moscow and not get stuck at the Brest Fortress? Why did our armies surrender to the Germans in 1941? How many prisoners in 1941 - 2 or 4 million? Who is to blame for these essentially crimes? Why was the army unprepared? Here it is necessary to make films about. As for the battle of Moscow, it would be better if they shot the militia divisions standing to death. And how many hundreds of thousands, essentially civilians, died there. As for the 28 Panfilov’s, almost the entire Panfilov’s division fought, and not 28 people. This is a distortion of the historical truth according to Medinsky!
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth 5 January 2017 17: 01 New
      0
      There were three full companies. But what does it change.
    2. Old Horseradish
      Old Horseradish 5 January 2017 17: 12 New
      +4
      He sat and thought about why we had 1941 - and came to the conclusion that our beloved group LUBE sings very well about this. Che Medina does not make films about this. On our people lies the sin of fratricidal war!
      1. Comrade Stalin
        Comrade Stalin 5 January 2017 18: 33 New
        +6
        So you repent. And your beloved Americans all shit and take what they need. Are you a hejak?
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 6 January 2017 00: 03 New
        +6
        Again, the overplayed liberoid record was put on - "repent, repent ...", here you are, if there is nothing to do, repent, but our people have nothing to repent of, they have withstood such tests in the 20th century that no other nation could not stand, his feat will go down in history forever, Europe and other nations would bow at his feet, but the wisdom says, “do not throw pearls in front of pigs, and, unlike you, I am proud that I belong to such a people.
    3. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 5 January 2017 23: 55 New
      +6
      About the tragedy, the Mikhalkovs and others like him fed us to the fullest, but not only were they captured and perished in whole divisions in 41, but they still fought and beat the enemy, and this is what this film is about, otherwise you are today would not sit at the computer and scribble their comments full of uncompromising criticism. So thanks to the authors of the film for showing those who defended the country in hard times.
    4. Duisenbay Bankankulov
      Duisenbay Bankankulov 9 January 2017 19: 52 New
      0
      If 28 Panfilov’s myth! That is, a historical fact is a book by A. Beck, the author wrote it during the war. Incidentally, it was published in a magazine in those years. Now imagine for a moment what censorship was then, because there was a war ....
  29. sergo1914
    sergo1914 5 January 2017 16: 42 New
    +5
    I liked the movie. And when in the credits went the names of the cities where LENINGRAD ... A lump in the throat. Well done.
  30. All terrain vehicle
    All terrain vehicle 5 January 2017 16: 55 New
    +5
    Quote: 0255
    Quote: svp67
    These tanks are from "World of Tanks", one team worked on the drawing.

    These are tanks from War Thunder from Gaijin Entertainment, which are much more beautiful and realistic than Wargaming.


    Yes, many do not know what wt is, unfortunately, and play only in wot. By the way, friends who tried wt to wot do not return.
    As for the tanks in the film, they are generally not graphics. This was shot by detailed radio models with a frequency of 200 k / s and then slowed down the video for smoothness and realism. Who doesn’t like the tanks in the film, show me where they are better shot? Also in such quantity? In the same Raina with its budget, 34ku was used to depict the tiger (but of course the technologies were not the same, no doubt).

    With Soviet films (with all due respect), you can’t compare either, when 54ki are covered with plywood so you get a tiger.

    By the way, about Stalin and the USSR, I recently watched "in war as in war", an excellent film, but it also does not mention anything Soviet and Stalin, but this does not prevent being one of the best and beloved by veterans of the film. Therefore, everything is relative, and nothing is perfect. For the first normal film, this is a breakthrough and a masterpiece that really wants to be shown to children.

    Moreover, the film paid off, given that almost nothing was said about it on the central channels. But about the Viking derma, all ears were already buzzing.
  31. Kenneth
    Kenneth 5 January 2017 16: 59 New
    +2
    They had no magpies. And about the cheerful mood correctly noted.
  32. All terrain vehicle
    All terrain vehicle 5 January 2017 17: 41 New
    12
    Quote: Mestny
    Quote: AleBors
    After all the Mikhalkov-Bondarchuk crafts, this is really a war film.

    But I am afraid the viewer will not agree with you about "Bondarchuk's craft". Actually, I didn't agree, judging by the box office.
    There is no need to repeat after some citizens their categorical conclusions about this or that movie. Moreover, you do not know for certain from what considerations these citizens are proceeding, so furiously throwing mud at a specific movie from specific directors. The reason is definitely not patriotism or striving for "truth", but certainly banal money.
    This film could help to bring up the correct perception of Russian history, the revival of patriotism, and so on only in one case - it was necessary to show it wherever possible, in schools, in cinemas for the symbolic price of a ticket, put it in the public domain.
    In the current form of commercial rental, it immediately turned into a movie of low quality that was unnoticed by the bulk of the audience.


    Do not write nonsense. They went to Stalingrad only because the name of the film contained the word sacred to our people, Stalingrad. Unfortunately, the commander received a hysterical girl, Katya, who sits on one of her knees, kisses the other and builds eyes for the third. Is this worthy respect for our ancestors from the director? If you support this then you are sorry. Pull another 9th company here where Fedya buried the guys, but it was all different.

    If the film of 28 Panfilovtsev is not widely promoted and has not received, as much advertising as shit like a Viking, then the film is bad? And are the creators bad? What kind of nonsense are you angry. You or paid Troll or the one that I wrote above. Don’t be angry.
  33. All terrain vehicle
    All terrain vehicle 5 January 2017 17: 46 New
    +7
    Quote: Old Horseradish
    But I didn’t look and I won’t look. All these agitation with jokes-jokes is complete rubbish. The battle of Moscow is not only the joy of victory, but also a great tragedy. Why did the German reach Moscow and not get stuck at the Brest Fortress? Why did our armies surrender to the Germans in 1941? How many prisoners in 1941 - 2 or 4 million? Who is to blame for these essentially crimes? Why was the army unprepared? Here it is necessary to make films about. As for the battle of Moscow, it would be better if they shot the militia divisions standing to death. And how many hundreds of thousands, essentially civilians, died there. As for the 28 Panfilov’s, almost the entire Panfilov’s division fought, and not 28 people. This is a distortion of the historical truth according to Medinsky!


    Another one with Solzhenitsyn’s syndrome ...
    Already would have written immediately 24mln, 40mln reprinted. And what 10 thousand babies Stalin ate for breakfast do not forget.
    1. Old Horseradish
      Old Horseradish 5 January 2017 17: 57 New
      +2
      Solzhenitsyn actually fought. About prisoners in 1941 - I wrote a figure that is less than what it actually is. You wrote about Stalin, son, that he ate babies. What the hell does it really mean to you, son? Yes, in our history there were very bad moments. But, for many nations, they also were. It is necessary to comprehend all this and not repeat in the future. And then, son, everything in Russia will be fine. There will be a strong country, and a powerful army, and grandmas will not steal and hide abroad. I probably won’t live, and you, son, will probably live up to these bright years!
      1. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 6 January 2017 00: 10 New
        +3
        That's right, "many peoples had nasty moments in their history," but for some reason, with maniacal persistence, you urge our people to repent, I think it's not casual, if you want to belittle the role of our people, since they are sinners, that's all. what he did in the past is unworthy, do not consider us stupid goyim, it is clear where you are driving.
      2. Comrade Stalin
        Comrade Stalin 6 January 2017 04: 24 New
        +1
        Solzhenitsyn has fought since 1943, and I think that he "fought" is said loudly. Throughout the war he served in a sound reconnaissance battery, that is, he did not go into attacks, did not fight off tanks, but sat comfortably in the rear.
        http://ruskline.ru/analitika/2014/02/05/solzhenic
        yn_klassik_lzhi_i_predatelstva /
        1. Kenneth
          Kenneth 9 January 2017 22: 05 New
          0
          Two orders presented to him by friendship?
  34. Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 5 January 2017 17: 53 New
    +2
    Here's who to make films about. But Medinsky does not need this, because then the perpetrators of the disaster that befell us in 1941 will be shown.
    "This is what the writer Konstantin Simonov recalled about the meeting at the front with the soldiers of the people's militia division:" In the next village we met units of one of the Moscow militia divisions, it seems, the sixth. I remember that they made a hard impression on me then. Subsequently, I realized that these early July divisions were in those days thrown into a plug in order to throw at least something here and at this cost to preserve and not shake up in parts the front of the reserve armies, which, in anticipation of the next German attack, was preparing to the east, closer to Moscow - and in this But then I had a hard feeling. I thought: do we really have no other reserves, except for these militias, somehow dressed and almost unarmed? One rifle for two and one machine gun. They were mostly middle-aged people of forty, fifty years old. They went without carts, without a normal regimental and divisional rear - in general, almost naked people on bare ground. Uniforms - tunics of the third term, and Some of these tunics were some kind of blue, dyed. Their commanders were also elderly people, storekeepers who had not served in the cadres for a long time. All of them still had to be taught, formed, brought into military form. Then I was very surprised when I learned that this militia division literally two days later was sent to the aid of the 100th and took part in the battles near Yelnya. "
    More details: http://vm.ru/news/2015/04/09/poslednij-rezerv-tra
    gediya-i-podvig-narodnogo-opolcheniya-moskvi-2833
    79.html "
  35. All terrain vehicle
    All terrain vehicle 5 January 2017 18: 20 New
    +7
    Quote: Old Horseradish
    Solzhenitsyn actually fought. About prisoners in 1941 - I wrote a figure that is less than what it actually is. You wrote about Stalin, son, that he ate babies. What the hell does it really mean to you, son? Yes, in our history there were very bad moments. But, for many nations, they also were. It is necessary to comprehend all this and not repeat in the future. And then, son, everything in Russia will be fine. There will be a strong country, and a powerful army, and grandmas will not steal and hide abroad. I probably won’t live, and you, son, will probably live up to these bright years!


    If we stir up the past, let alone throw mud at our history and ancestors, then obviously we will not be left for long. Eshk Solzhenitsyn offered to strike the USSR with nuclear weapons and dumped a potential enemy into the country, so there is no reason to believe him, "Father".
  36. PPD
    PPD 5 January 2017 18: 36 New
    +2
    Do not like it, take off your better. am
  37. Mestny
    Mestny 5 January 2017 18: 42 New
    0
    Quote: glory1974
    flashing "citadel" failed at the box office. Does the fact that we live under capitalism really reject patriotism?

    But Bondarchukovsky Stalingrad how, failed or not?
    When someone tries to sell you something on the subject of Soviet patriotism for a decent price, that’s capitalist patriotism.
    Then there was no talk of money. People didn’t defend their homeland for money. And if we are so sick of our USSR’s homeland, if we really want to return at least something from it, can it really be done only with the help of buy-sell?
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 5 January 2017 21: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: "And how did Bondarchukov Stalingrad fail or not?"
      I do not know. Did the "28 Panfilovites" fail?

      Quote: “When someone tries to sell you something on the topic of Soviet patriotism for a decent price, this is such patriotism in a capitalist way.
      Then there was no talk of money. People did not defend their homeland for money. And if we are so sick of that Soviet homeland of ours, if we so want to return at least something of that, can it really be done only with the help of buy and sell? "
      Not understood. Should films on patriotic themes be shown for free? Or should actors play for free?
  38. Mestny
    Mestny 5 January 2017 18: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: Old Fuck
    As for the battle of Moscow, it would be better if they shot the militia divisions standing to death. And how many hundreds of thousands, essentially civilians, died there.

    What are you? This will have to shoot about specific people, and not about cinematic reenactment robots "quietly burning tanks".
    And suddenly it turns out that people are completely different, and among them there are heroes and cowards and outright villains. And suddenly it turns out. that there are women among them. and even with the name Katya. And it turns out that they need to be protected - not at all. as our Soviet homeland. but now. specifically at this moment. Or give them miserable gifts right in the middle of war and blood - because Moscow reenactors probably don’t know that they will not be able to live in this war for 2-3 days, and then return to a comfortable modern life. It’s all for years and nowhere to go, but life continues anyway ...
    And about everything about it, it will be necessary to make a movie. And then the famous megaspecialist in cinema will appear who hasn’t made a single film, and will pour all this work with mud and the admirers of his speech talent will speak with his mouth for a long time to sing hymns to their Guru in different ways.
    And they would have nothing at all, but people will take it again, come to the cinemas, see, bring money. Regardless of any opinion, there are no characters on the Internet.
    1. igoryok1984
      igoryok1984 5 January 2017 20: 05 New
      +1
      I scanned Stalingrad long before Goblin's review. There are a couple of good points, but everything else is slag. The most interesting thing is that Bondarchuk starred with Ozerov as a sniper in the film about Stalingrad and Thomas Krechman in 1993 too. Both films are 100 times better than Fedor's craft. People went to the film precisely because of the title.
  39. Kirill Petrov
    Kirill Petrov 5 January 2017 19: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Trevis
    A good film, with folk money!

    precisely, all over the outskirts collected
  40. Mestny
    Mestny 5 January 2017 20: 23 New
    -1
    Quote: Rider
    Do not write nonsense. They went to Stalingrad only because the name of the film contained the word sacred to our people, Stalingrad. Unfortunately, the commander received a hysterical girl, Katya, who sits on one of her knees, kisses the other and builds eyes for the third. Is this worthy respect for our ancestors from the director? If you support this then you are sorry.

    And you asked those who walked? For what reason did they do it? And what is their impression of the film left?
    I personally saw the reaction and asked.
    I didn’t hear anything even close to what you wrote here.
    That is, absolutely nothing of what yours on oper.ru blooms in double color.
  41. Mestny
    Mestny 5 January 2017 20: 27 New
    -1
    Quote: igoryok1984
    I scanned Stalingrad long before Goblin's review. There are a couple of good points, but everything else is slag. The most interesting thing is that Bondarchuk starred with Ozerov as a sniper in the film about Stalingrad and Thomas Krechman in 1993 too.

    It's not about that. This is your own opinion, which is worthy of all respect.
    The thing is that a crowd of people word for word like a herd repeats as a mantra everything said by their leader. And not only that, they also find excuses for themselves.
    And moreover, they manage to write here, for example, "do not write nonsense" and the like, reacting to an opinion different from their crowd in the way that they obviously accepted there.
    I do not write on their fence, and never wrote. That is, I do not climb with my samovar into their Tula.
    But in other places I will allow myself to express an opinion, one that I think is right and necessary.
  42. Just a man
    Just a man 5 January 2017 20: 37 New
    +7
    A solid truthful film. Very good among our real movie industry. You, my dears, do not know yet, but you probably guess that they wanted to quietly push this film. Remember - almost complete ignorance on state TV channels, at the box office they put on screenings at 10 am and 23.45:XNUMX pm, after a week of showing, film posters were shot in many places. Our "seasoned" directors seemed to have scored shit in their mouths, complete ignorance in the assessments of the film. But you’re not surprised, just look at who owns the film distribution industry, who sets policy there.
  43. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 5 January 2017 21: 30 New
    +1
    The only minor blunder was at the very beginning, when the commander left on a horse with a sports saddle (one wide girth). But that's a small thing in this whole powerful film. About the "Maxim" with a smooth casing - these were the machine guns before the modernization of 1931, when they added a wide neck (for the ability to put snow and ice in the casing) and a ribbed casing. In the film "Chapaev" was filmed "Maxim" with a smooth casing, that is, an early modification.
  44. although
    although 5 January 2017 22: 59 New
    0
    Quote: Stas57
    ps. but in general this is what kind of shit it was necessary to feed people for 30 years, so that they perceive the average film as a masterpiece

    you are Stalingrad, Stalingrad! look. or the "last frontier" film about the same, in the same place, but the T-44 hung with Bondarchuk plywood, without infantry, at all, are cheerfully attacking the Germans)
  45. although
    although 5 January 2017 23: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Aviator_
    About "Maxim" with a smooth casing - these were the machine guns before the modernization of 1931

    This is maxim arr. 1910 with a smooth casing on Sokolov’s machine tool (late without a saddle), with a tripod removed, they had a place to be in the troops,
    Maxim 1910/30 had a ribbed casing, with a narrow filler hole, and a wide neck was put on handicraft during the Finnish war; in the 1941 model, it became a regular one. )) I'm not a historian, so glue modelki)
  46. 1536
    1536 6 January 2017 01: 03 New
    +8
    Good movie. A couple of times it took me so hard that a lump came up to my throat. Maybe too sentimental? Maybe. Only after our last films about "cinema and the Germans", as well as Hollywood special effects, this film looks. And about all sorts of "blunders" and the like, so this is a movie shot 76 years after the events described. What should I point to them? So the directors saw it this way, and the artists played it like that.
    In 2014, the movie "Rage" was released in Hollywood, starring Brad Pete. About how American tankers repel the attacks of the Germans. Who has not seen, look, compare. Count the bloopers if you have nothing to do. But the film in the United States won the Critics' Choice Film Award for Best Action Film. And no one even made a sound, because the memory of the Second World War in America is sacred.
    And here we just want to collect all the "critics" of the 28 Panfilov heroes, and send them by a time machine that November 1941 to the Dubosekovo junction, "to see how it really was" so that it would be discouraging to mock people who in those days saved the country from destruction.
    1. Evver
      6 January 2017 09: 38 New
      +1
      Where did you see the "mockery" ??? So where ?
      Do you want to send "non-critics" to Dubosekovo? Or do they already know "how it really was"?
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 6 January 2017 10: 35 New
        +3
        And here we just want to collect all the "critics" of the 28 Panfilov heroes, and send them by a time machine that November 1941 to the Dubosekovo junction,

        Do you want to send "non-critics" to Dubosekovo?

        critics, along with those whose lump comes up and the soul shrinks and look, I'm afraid that it turns out that some of those whose lump will be dumped quickly to the rear, and some of those who critic will stop dying.
        1. Evver
          6 January 2017 10: 39 New
          +3
          I, too, such a thought slipped good
        2. 1536
          1536 6 January 2017 22: 27 New
          +1
          You, dear, what did you want to say? I look, there’s nothing more to talk about than about the Great Patriotic War. And friends were immediately found - the talkers. Once again I say, I think that if the time machine were to score, it would be necessary to collect all the critics of our heroic history and send them to Dubosekovo for the 1941 year. True, one can guarantee personal security so that later they can write comments.
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 7 January 2017 11: 21 New
            +1
            I look, there’s nothing more to talk about than about the Great Patriotic War.

            Certainly not about anything, the central event in the history of my country, how can I not talk about it?

            to collect all the critics of our heroic history, and send Dubosekovo to the 1941 year for a trip.

            Well I say - along with all the patriots and those who have a lump and see who is the first to put on pants ....

            although I don't really understand why you can't criticize a fairly average film in any way? oh yes, because your "lump came up," but it didn't come to me, it was funny for me to watch how, for example, ordinary men discuss 7 samurai, oh, you don't know, so I will explain to discuss 7 samurai in 41 is equivalent to this:
            Donetsk 2016, militias go to battle fortifications:
            -And there was also a story - "7 Bandera residents defended the village from bandits .."
            so here ...
            the word "samurai" in those years is a little better than a fascist. Two years ago, the events in the area of ​​Lake Khasan and the Khalkhin-Gol River ended.


            and such a mess there, not to mention the bashful silence of the role of Stalin of the Party and the USSR, and there really is a lump in the throat.
          2. Evver
            8 January 2017 13: 06 New
            +1
            And I, all the same, offer us all - there ... in November 41-th ... And it will be clear - who you are and what you are. And let the survivors write the comments. If someone stays ...
            So it will be fair, no?
      2. 1536
        1536 6 January 2017 22: 42 New
        0
        Unfortunately, the world consists not only of your articles and ... thoughts. And I did not consider you a critic. What for?
  47. taypan
    taypan 6 January 2017 02: 20 New
    +3
    Andrey from Chelyabinsk. Today 01:11. (Taking into account the best physical condition of Soviet soldiers) the Japanese could not dominate hand-to-hand by definition ... Well, there are exceptions. The Japanese and Vietnamese have the same physiology. They are equal in height, what in weight. Read "Like lightning" - a story. There the Vietnamese killed and maimed 8 to eight American soldiers with his bare hands. After the war, he studied in the USSR, at a military school and rose to the rank of major in the Vietnamese army. He was just doing karate.
  48. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 6 January 2017 04: 43 New
    +3
    Something is wrong with society .. If a good film about the war, there haven't been such for a long time, they criticized the article and this article received so many advantages. The memory of the war must live and the heroes and exploits of that war must live, without any critical views, since the price of Victory was great.
    Americans say - Remember the Alamo, and are proud for us the episode of the war with Mexico, and for them this battle, as for us, Stalingrad. Although such a comparison would smile at us. But for them it is sacred and they do not understand jokes and critics on this subject.
    I wish everyone not to forget about the real feat which was the Victory in the Great Patriotic War and that sense of faith in their own right, which after this war sits with us genes.
    Apparently it pierced our enemies as well, since such a stir of swamps had begun.
    1. Evver
      6 January 2017 09: 31 New
      +2
      Ie, following your logic, if Shalopa made such a film and on such a topic - then he a priori is not subject to any criticism, and the only opinion that can be - well done, bravo, great !!!
      So what?
      And yet, I draw your attention that both I and other commentators writing about the blunders of the film analyze this particular piece of art on a given topic, and not "heroes and exploits of that war"which are undoubtedly our pride over 70.
      That's why I want these people and their feat to be adequately reflected in modern cinema, so that the next generations will consider 9 in May one of the MAIN holidays of the country.
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 6 January 2017 12: 32 New
        +5
        The film was shot in spite of everything that the Ministry of Culture did not even want to finance at first. In a fairly modest budget, they removed the THING. And all sorts of coopers rest.
        This is the first swallow, then there will be others.
        1. Evver
          6 January 2017 17: 36 New
          +1
          I do not argue with you. And God forbid there were other "swallows"!
          And you did not answer my question - "28 ..." OUTSIDE CRITICISM should be? Just because ?
      2. Pathos
        Pathos 10 January 2017 14: 42 New
        0
        My friend and I’m not a goddamned person to disassemble the least blunders in this work, in comparison with other works of great advertising comrades from whom you fall asleep in the 20th minute of the film. Want to count the number of pupils go to the museum or watch documentaries. It may be enough to throw excrement on the fan.
  49. Caucasian
    Caucasian 6 January 2017 06: 59 New
    +2
    I did not watch the movie. I’m afraid. I gave money to the film. And I’m afraid that as much as you can watch on TV on colonels with October badges, it’s like they are orders. Soldiers who walk like deserters. They cannot, like a Soviet soldier, tighten the belt correctly, make a crease. I’m a soldier, not even a corporal, but a soldier and officers in new films, I would even delay without checking documents.
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 6 January 2017 08: 46 New
      +3
      Download and take a look. Good film.
    2. Evver
      6 January 2017 09: 33 New
      +3
      I advise you to look ! And get your idea, it is yours!
  50. Archon
    Archon 6 January 2017 08: 13 New
    +8
    watch the movie Viking (1.25 billion rubles, 7 years sawed dough). you will feel sick several times and After it the film about Panfilov’s people seems perfect on 10000000% shot at the level of God.