Turkish ACV-15 infantry fighting vehicles in Syria are not able to protect crews from terrorist fire

The fighting in Syria once again showed that modern ground forces need well-protected armored vehicles. Turkish ACV-15 infantry fighting vehicles are not among them - they cannot protect crews and troops from enemy fire, writes Messenger of Mordovia.

“This infantry fighting vehicle was created with the help of the United States and other NATO countries. Its weight is more than 14 t. It is armed with a 25-mm cannon, with which the 7,62-mm machine gun is paired. Engine power - 300 HP Maximum speed - 65 km / h. Power reserve - 490 km. Crew - 3 people. Landing - 8 people. Booking bulletproof ", - said in an article by Dmitry Lemeshko.

He notes that the combat use of the machine "demonstrated a vulnerability to ignition, and after a fire, the infantry fighting vehicles cannot be restored."

According to experts, in the near future "we should expect the replacement of the ACV-15 with more modern and, accordingly, protected infantry vehicles," the author writes.

Comments

[Sergey F]

This is surprising!
They dug into a foreign country, brought in all kinds of military junk, called it all "Shields of the Euphrates", and well - drool!
It seems to the Turks that the main thing is to prevent the Kurds from creating autonomy, and therefore they called the Kurds terrorists. In their Turechchina Kurds are muzzled, but they want to have a good relationship with them ... Well, them!

[bouncyhunter]

Eh ... If this is an infantry fighting vehicle, then the "Mass Grave of Infantry".

[Vadim237]

At the moment, all BMPs, including our BMP 2 and MBP 3, are the mass graves of the infantry. Large-caliber rifles pierce them like a knife into an aluminum can. And RPGs and ATGMs smash them to smithereens.

[VDV1985]

so it is so. but all the same BMP 2 and 3 are steel, and this miracle is a reworked "aluminum" M113. It can rather be compared with BMD / BTRD. And the winged metal will in any case give way to the piece of iron.

[alexmach]

BMP-3 armor - aluminum rolled spaced with steel screens.
From pedagogy.

[MoJloT]

Watch from 3,5 https://youtu.be/LMkfqrHRfrs

[Glory1974]

Just like the tanks. So BMP does not have a right to exist?

[alexmach]

In my opinion this is the M4-Sherman :)

[DanSabaka]

And if the Turks are not willing to buy the BMP-4 from the Russians?

[SibRUS]

In fairness, she, too, will not save from a shell or RPG.

[Glory1974]

Will the tank save?

[OlegYola]

Well, just the same BMP-4 is invulnerable

[Aleksandr12]

Well, just the same BMP-4 is invulnerable feel

Is there such a thing?

[DanSabaka]

There is. Modernization of the BMP-3.
http://www.wartanks.ru/bronetransporteri/bmp-4.ht
ml

[Aleksandr12]

This is not entirely true, or rather it is incorrect to call it BMP-4. This is the same BMP-3 only modernized (BMP-3M). The corps remains unchanged, the armament does not change, only the OMS changes. And is this a new model of a combat vehicle? Such a focus only on smartphones passes .
Regarding your link, the article is nothing (my koment is even more informative ) The attached video from RENTV is clearly from the late 90s and early 2000s. A man with a hangover said something to the camera and a new BMP appeared, outright stupidity. Time has passed enough for the information to be more detailed about him (Kurgan has already been debated from all sides, and he was put into trial operation only last year (unless, of course, passed)), and apart from this article there is nothing about him. But there is about BMP-3M

[DanSabaka]

there are other links in tyrnet.
but that's not the point ... when sold for export, the car can get any name, but it is unlikely to be called the BMP-3M. This is marketing .... And besides it, there is something to offer for sale, based on the same "troika" ....

[DanSabaka]

well, it’s holding a rifle shot ....

[Starover]

Desire, maybe they desire, but who will allow them?

[Shuttle]

“We should expect the replacement of ACV-15 with more modern and, accordingly, protected infantry vehicles”

Well - "Kurganets-25" in the export version, eğer satın almak istiyorsun?

[Shuttle]

Quote: DanSabaka

And if the Turks are not willing to buy the BMP-4 from the Russians?

BMP-4 is too fat. Here is "Kurganets-25" in export, t.s. the light version is quite.

[Reserve buildbat]

Strange ... BMP can not protect the crew and the landing? It’s itself a sawn-off armored personnel carrier M-113, which has been the standard of strength for years now that way 50! The latest development with huge combat experience!

[avt]

Quote: Stroibat stock

She herself sawed BTR M-113

Well, actually, yes. They piled on a M-115 turret with a 25mm cannon and proudly called it a BMP, and I don’t even remember which shaggy year. With the same success, the BTR-82 can be called a BMP and require that the first line was not killed.

[cosmos111]

Our BMP -2 has what kind of armor protection.
And they (the BMP-2) as well as the first-generation ACV-15 do not keep the word AT ALL.
That’s bebor, or buoyancy, or maximum protection.
If buoyancy is always at 100% it will be vulnerable to any ATGM.
Exit only KAZ, for lightly armored vehicles.

And the Turks, pull and pull, them to Al-Bab.

[Vadim237]

"If buoyancy is always 100% vulnerable to any ATGM." Well, not really, there is a light but very durable material "armored metallopen" based on titanium or composites, the sample thickness is 25 millimeters, it can withstand the hit of an armor-piercing bullet of 7,62 caliber since the material is porous and it does not sink in water. Tensile strength 3000 MPa.
From it you can make hinged and spaced out armor in the form of blocks.

[cosmos111]

Quote: Vadim237

Well, not really, there is a light but very durable material "armored metallopen" based on titanium or composites, the sample thickness is 25 millimeters, it can withstand the hit of an armor-piercing bullet of 7,62 caliber since the material is porous and it does not sink in water.

I posted for the ATGM. For the Airborne Forces, the Marines are relevant.
Israel owns all these technologies but made BTR-T Namer and installed KAZ.

[Vadim237]

But for all other military branches, this is also relevant, especially for the BTA - during transportation.

[cosmos111]

Quote: Vadim237

But for all other military branches, this is also relevant, especially for the BTA - during transportation

REALLY, get acceptable protection, both ballistic and mine ...

modern armored steel (see below) and composite materials and polymers are needed.

1. Pre-impregnated DURAPREG composite materials for the manufacture of tough individual ballistic protection
DURAPREG is used in the manufacture of molded parts for tough ballistic protection products, such as army helmets and body armor inserts, in accordance with all levels of NIJ 0101.04 standards
2.Anti-fragmentation lining of vehicles based on various reinforcing materials and composite materials based on resins, such as:
PARA-LITE PGR20 - E-glass tourniquet with phenol-aldehyde polymer based system
PARA-LITE 65340 - E-glass woven fabric with a system based on polyester resins
PARA-LITE FLEX - para-aramid fabric with a rubber-based polymer system
PARA-LITE PP is a lightweight multi-layer plastic that allows partial or complete replacement of aramid without weight gain. It can be decorated with various coatings, made in accordance with the wishes of the customer, or coated with an adhesive layer.
3. Explosion-proof panels for a floor of vehicles.
These multilayer structures consist of laminate for ballistic protection, connected to the base material, which can be coated with various coatings, for example anti-slip rubber coating or decorative lining. Materials have been developed to protect vehicles in accordance with STANAG 4569 standards.
4: Panels for booking vehicles that are manufactured to ballistic protection levels defined by EN 1522 ballistic standards.
PARA-LITE FLEX is an ultra-plastic laminate that includes lightweight protection to book a vehicle against external hazards. The material can be bent, inserted and secured in the doors of the vehicle or placed under parts of the interior trim and even under parts with a large radius of curvature. The material is supplied in the form of structural panels for subsequent use on all types of vehicles.
5 PARA-LITE® Armored Partitions
The PARA-LITE armored partitions combine laminated plastic for ballistic protection with a lightweight honeycomb structure that is coated with decorative cladding on the sides and edges. The combination of various claddings and base materials makes it possible to meet specific requirements for thermal and sound insulation, weight restrictions, as well as requirements for ballistic protection and technical design conditions.
But all this is very expensive.

[Lesorub]

Quote: cosmos111

If buoyancy is always at 100% it will be vulnerable to any ATGM.

Kurganets 25 and is well protected and floats perfectly!

[marshes]

Quote: avt

They piled a turret with a 115mm gun on the M-25 and proudly called it - BMP

Yes, they adapt to NATO standards, go with the licensed production of the M-115, they produce components and assemblies for those who use this BTR. Business.

[cosmos111]

Quote: marshes

Yes adapt to NATO standards,

They don’t have to adjust, they are still with the 60's according to NATO standards.
ACV-15 due to lack of funds, the army needed a massive on the General Purpose Vehicle BMP / BTR, we went along the simplest path. Modernization.

[marshes]

Quote: cosmos111

ACV-15 due to lack of funds, the army needed a massive on the General Purpose Vehicle BMP / BTR, we went along the simplest path. Modernization.

The Turks in their factories produce a lot of things for the NATO countries in the flesh for tailoring lumps and shoes.
And what about the ACV-15, it’s also almost if you install a cannon on a motor bike and hang something like a dynamic mounted armor.
So the future is still for heavy infantry fighting vehicles.

[cosmos111]

Quote: marshes

The Turks in their factories produce a lot of things for NATO countries, in the flesh for tailoring lumps and shoes

They participate in cooperation.

Quote: marshes

So the future is still for heavy infantry fighting vehicles.

And for such a saturation of anti-tank systems of irregulars / rebels.

[marshes]

Quote: cosmos111

And for such a saturation of anti-tank systems and regulars / rebels.

So it is necessary to prepare for such wars.
The same Kurganets-25 in theory should be 35-40.
Although a clear competitor is based on Almaty.

[cosmos111]

Kurgan-25-dead-end branch.
BMP-T / BTR on Armata chassis and wheeled "Boomerang".
Why produce so many types of armored vehicles?
And also the Airborne Forces with BMD BTR "Shell" BMP-3, etc.
As an example of the BMN-1 in Maardes, the TOW CCA ammunition and the result probably carried.

[marshes]

Quote: cosmos111

Kurgan-25-dead-end branch.

I agree with you. I proposed somehow on this site to create a conveyor machine from 15 with the possibility of growth up to 40 tons. Like LEGO. A little later they read that they are re-launching the production of MLTB in Russia. The machine is needed.

Quote: cosmos111

BMP-T / BTR on Armata chassis and wheeled "Boomerang".

I agree the same, there is general unification on the chassis.

Quote: cosmos111

Why produce so many types of armored vehicles?
And also the Airborne Forces with BMD BTR "Shell" BMP-3, etc.

Well, I didn’t think about it, we don’t need them, but the aviation fleet of transport planes is small.

[cosmos111]

Quote: marshes

A little later, they read that they are re-rebuilding the production of MLTB already in Russia.

It would be better to restore the production of MT-S (Object 306) and MT-SM.
The Poles on this chassis made a whole fleet of BBMs, and if not for NATO, they would have used it.
http://www.russianarms.ru/forum/index.php?topic=4
76.0

http://www.russianarms.ru/forum/index.php?topic=4
77.0

[marshes]

Quote: cosmos111

MT-S (Object 306)

Hmm, a good thing. As the engine from T-72 understood. A walk from Acacia.

[Lesorub]

Quote: cosmos111

Kurgan-25-dead-end branch.

Yes you what !! ??
Argumentation of the shortcomings of this model ???
I think the Ministry of Defense "roughly guesses" for what purposes they order this or that military equipment, Kurganets 25 is an excellent representative in its class in terms of armor, firepower, mobility!

[Vadim237]

It would be better in a series based on Kurganets, launched a robotic infantry fighting vehicle.

[marshes]

Quote: Vadim237

It would be better in a series based on Kurganets, launched a robotic infantry fighting vehicle.

And will the infantrymen be robotic?

[zoolu300]

In a serious war, mobility (the ability to overcome the virgin land, river, swamp) will be more important than protection.

[marshes]

Quote: zoolu300

In a serious war, mobility (the ability to overcome the virgin land, river, swamp) will be more important than protection.

Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, the earliest, perhaps not a serious war is going on there. Almost all tanks except the British, and ATGMs with RPGs were noted, we see the results on YouTube.

[zoolu300]

These are not serious wars. Serious only with the use of nuclear weapons.

[US]

There is a negative point in all this. Our "friends" learn from all this and identify the weak points of their weapons and tactics, and I don't like that. I personally want them to be armed with this "miracle" as before.

[protoss]

strange heading. what kind of fire? from bullets, from shells, from mines, from peters?
Or, in the opinion of the author, should a good BMP be finally impenetrable?

[novel66]

and, ideally, invisible!

[Uncle Murzik]

Well, if this machine was created with the help of the United States and other NATO countries, then what to expect from this trash!

[Zaurbek]

It's just that the USSR faced this in the 1980s in Afghanistan with the BTR-60-70-80 and BMP-1-2. and in Chechnya And NATO countries now ....

[Ustrushan]

Nato and the real fighting, not the exercises. Here flaws of equipment, combat interaction, weapons, etc. are revealed.
In Syria, too, a bunch of flaws were revealed. This is normal.
Another question is that the Turkish command poorly analyzed the tactics of the IGilovites and the combat operations of the SAA.
So now fully pays for his carelessness.

[marshes]

Quote: Ustrushan

Another question is that the Turkish command poorly analyzed the tactics of the IGilovites and the combat operations of the SAA.

Yes, they analyzed it normally, it’s just possible they sent pro-Gülen officers and soldiers into battle.

[Wolka]

the war in Syria clearly shows that there is something, Western armored vehicles are visible only for the development of military budgets and parades, but in fact, only Papuans in Africa drive ...

[GEV67]

This is the eternal struggle of armor and means of breaking into this armor. Alas, to date, almost all BMPs are vulnerable to one degree or another. The war puts everything in its place and shows the weaknesses of technology.

[raid14]

Bulletproof booking LBT, large losses l \ s at the forefront.
Increased protection with additional reservations, weight gain, loss of speed and buoyancy.
Installation of active protection systems is very expensive, about half the cost of infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers.
The optimal solution is the application of electrodynamic effects on cumulative jets to protect objects from cumulative melee weapons with a penetration depth of homogeneous armor within 500 ... 600 mm.
ELECTRODYNAMIC PROTECTION AGAINST Cumulative Means of Defeat: PROSPECTS FOR PRACTICAL IMPLEMENTATION
http://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/elektrodinamiche
skaya-zaschita-ot-kumulyativnyh-sredstv-porazheni
ya-perspektivy-prakticheskoy-realizatsii

[Vadim237]

Every year, the third generation ATGMs hit the roof more and more - electric armor will not save them, and Germany has appeared -
In 2018, the Bundeswehr can get into service light rockets Enforcer.
As part of the tests conducted by specialists of the Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition of the German Ministry of Defense, the missiles were tested for accuracy. During the test, several launches were made on targets located at distances of 1000, 1500 and 2000 m (maximum range for Enforcer). The report states that all missiles accurately hit the targets "with minimal deviation from the aiming point."

Enforcer rockets are developed by the German division of MBDA. The creation of a promising light missile system started at the end of the last decade and should be completed in 2018. The description of the development program indicates that the purpose of the work is to create and launch a series of a new high-precision system for the ground forces and other units that can hit targets at short distances (up to 2 km).

The small-sized guided missile will be delivered in an ultra-light transport-launch container (TPK) of square cross section made of carbon fiber. The container has mounts for mounting sighting devices. TPK rocket is disposable and can be thrown after launch. As for the sighting device, it should be removed and used for the next shot, being installed on a new TPK.

The weight of the launcher with a missile is less than 7 kg, the set of two TPK and the sights are less than 20 kg. Enforcer is equipped with a multi-purpose warhead, designed to defeat lightly armored vehicles and enemy manpower, as well as an optoelectronic homing head. Next year, the Bundeswehr will conduct another test of Enforcer - missiles will be tested in low visibility conditions, after which they will have to go into service with the German army.

[raid14]

From 3rd generation ATGMs with GOS and modern T-90 tanks without KAZ are vulnerable, talk about protecting light armored vehicles from light RPG rounds with grenades like PG-7LV or PG 7VR and ATGMs of 1 or 2 maximum generation.
If you do not go into the cost, then the upper hemisphere and the roof of the armored vehicle can and should be protected by KAZ such as "Drozd-2", "Arena", "Afganit".

[cosmos111]

Quote: marshes

Hmm, a good thing. As the engine from T-72 understood. A walk from Acacia.

, YES, that sort of thing. Ready BMP, GSH for self-propelled guns, etc.
Subject:
"BAE Systems will install the Iron Fist active protection system on the CV9035 BMP"

[marshes]

Quote: cosmos111

"BAE Systems will install the Iron Fist active protection system on the CV9035 BMP"

Iron fist, cape, afghanit and so on. while everything is in theory, there are no real events with KAZs yet.
Lopatov generally suggested that a Duplet of two ATGMs or RPGs fire at vehicles equipped with KAZs.
Yesterday on the tape I saw a suicide bomber walking in a car while zigzagging until he hit a ditch with water. And they beat him with all possible means. He could get there.

[shlang25]

Quote: marshes

Iron fist, cape, afghanit and so on. while everything is in theory, there are no real events with KAZs yet.
.

Jews Trophy set already

[Glory1974]

BBM protection is not only armor. According to the results of military operations in the TFR, it was found that when the BMP was destroyed in 45% of the cases, the crew dies. When the armored personnel carrier is destroyed, the crew dies in 15% of the cases. Conclusion: it’s safer to travel on an APC in 3 times. Recently, there was a video in VO: A rocket flies into a pickup from machine guns, the barmalei fell off the body and scattered in horror. The pickup is in the trash.

[Kirill Petrov]

Burn, it's clear,
To not go out
Not in vain -
High and red.