In St. Petersburg laid the IRC "Burya"

The ceremony of laying a small rocket ship of the 22800 “Storm” project took place at the Pella enterprise.

“Exactly one year after the launch of the first two small rocket ships of the 22800, Uragan and Typhoon project, a solemn ceremony of laying down another ship of this project was held at the new shipbuilding complex of Pella,” the company said in a release.

“Underestimating the importance of this ship for the Navy is impossible. The experience of building small missile ships is the experience of the mature shipbuilding of the Soviet Union, the maximum cost-effectiveness ratio for these ships was reached. Such ships, recently tested in combat conditions, have proven their effectiveness in the Mediterranean Sea. The arrival of such ships is a long awaited event, the fleet they are needed, " - said the chief of the General Staff of the Navy Andrei Volozhinsky.

According to him, “ships of this class were in all fleets, their divisions were always called“ bad weather ”divisions, and the tradition to call ships in honor of those who have served their time and fulfilled the task has been preserved”.

Designed by the Almaz design bureau, the 22800 project ships will have a displacement of about 800 t, speed - more than 30 nodes. They are armed with high-precision rocket complexes. weapons and modern artillery complexes. Among the advantages of the IRC data, the developers call high maneuverability, increased seaworthiness, as well as the architecture of superstructures and hulls made according to the technology of low reflectivity.

Comments

[Alex_Rarog]

Good ships! But still I would like to read the news about the laying of ships of the first and second rank!

[Rurikovich]

Quote: Alex_Rarog

but still I would like to read the news about the laying of ships of the first and second rank!

Such ships are almost ideal for coastal defense and operations on relatively small theater of operations (Black and Baltic Seas). Therefore, in the conditions of the economy in which Russia is now located and with such a state system with a large share of private capital (read - oligarchy), it is quite realistic to saturate the fleet with such ships. But it will be possible to seriously engage in ships of the 1st and 2nd rank when the money from the sale of the country's natural wealth will go not to the pockets of 1% of the population, but to the budget.

[tanit]

So whose pocket did the money go to - as of now? Whatever happens - is it all for the worse? Building ships, not building - is everything bad? "about wearing panties or not going to the bathhouse" - an anecdote, you probably know?

[Rurikovich]

Quote: tanit

So whose pocket did the money go to - as of now? Whatever happens - is it all for the worse? Building ships, not building - is everything bad? "about wearing panties or not going to the bathhouse" - an anecdote, you probably know?

And who says that if they build, then this is bad ???
Everything is known in comparison - pick up data on the construction of the fleet under the state system of the USSR and compare with the current Already one Abramovich, instead of his super-yacht and "Chelsea" could build a squadron of frigates for the World Cup or BM for money. Then it will become clear what the difference is in the distribution of the country's funds. And these are cruisers, and frigates, and corvettes and nuclear submarines, which are built for 10 years

[avt]

Quote: Rurikovich

Such ships are almost ideal for coastal defense and operations on relatively small theater of operations (Black and Baltic Seas).

Well, at the expense

Quote: Rurikovich

almost perfect

rather got excited. All the same, this is just a shock carrier of long-range “Calibers.” They practically cannot perform air defense and anti-aircraft defense. Rather, they will try to make a station wagon on the basis of project 20386. What will happen after the operation of 20380 and how quickly, well, let's see. It is interesting how "More" in the Crimea will cope. Like they were attached to Pella, like the Kerch people to Zelenodol residents.

[Rurikovich]

Quote: avt

All the same, this is just a shock carrier of long-range "Calibers"

These corvettes also have universal artillery and a "self-defense" anti-aircraft installation, an analogue of the "Pantsir". Therefore, for their displacement, they are very versatile, in order to drive a trifle and perform the functions available for their armament

Quote: avt

They practically cannot perform air defense and anti-aircraft defense.

Well, you can not shove the unshoved. IZH-Combi cannot fulfill the functions of the GAZ-53 Therefore, it is assumed the presence of naval aviation overhead and the absence of Elks in the Baltic with the Black Sea, and therefore the functions of ASW are not so important. Moreover, there are more specialized ships, which with these corvettes can complement each other

Quote: avt

And Pella will hand over on time, or on time. It's interesting how "More" in the Crimea will cope. Like they were attached to Pella, like the Kerch people to Zelenodoltsy.

And here we’ll see how industry is adequate in the current conditions and how efficiently the Ministry of Defense in its decisions

[avt]

Quote: Rurikovich

Well, you can not shove the unshoved.

Yes, I NEVER even demanded, like some on the site, to push something into it!

Quote: Rurikovich

Therefore, it is assumed the presence of naval aviation overhead and the absence of Elks in the Baltic with the Black Sea, and therefore the functions of ASW are not so important.

Strongly disagree! Firstly, I immediately remembered the memories of Soviet PLO pilots on Beriev's boats in relation to German submarines, and so they caught them only on the surface or when surfacing under a periscope, and one recalled that they visually found the 206th, they see how some non-commissioned officer came out , attached a pair of antennas and ... the boat disappeared from the locator. I’m not inventing anything, even somewhere I have a “hard copy” with this article; Secondly, do not overestimate the actions of your aviation, which, moreover, can be distracted by other tasks and, as a rule, it does not exist at the right time. -Yes

Quote: Rurikovich

Moreover, there are more specialized ships that can complement each other with these corvettes

Fighting at sea is not just pushing ships out of the base, but a complex event of working with diverse forces and means. But in principle, I will not argue with you - in the Baltic, ships of the 1st rank are definitely floating hotels for admirals. Well, Black something like that .... yes, in fact, too, they depend heavily on the bottleneck of the straits.

[Rurikovich]

Quote: avt

Secondly, do not overestimate the actions of your aviation, which in addition can be distracted by other tasks and, as a rule, it does not happen at the right time

Quote: avt

it’s not just pushing ships out of the base, but a complex event of working with diverse forces and means.

Chief of Staff is responsible for everything
And if PLO aviation - a very conditional tool , then air defense over the theater can be provided

Quote: avt

But, in principle, I do not argue with you - in the Baltic, ships of the 1st rank are definitely a floating hotel for admirals. Well, Black something like that .... yes, in fact, too, they depend heavily on the bottleneck of the straits.

So about it and Taldychim With proper planning and coordination, the corvettes of pr.22800 are very good ships for solving the tasks assigned to them according to the criterion "cost-effectiveness"

Quote: avt

Quote: Rurikovich
Well, you can not shove the unshoved.

well, like this , escaped .... Although indeed - there are idealists on the site
Though we are realists

[DM51]

rather got excited. All the same, it is just a shock carrier of long-range "Calibers".

But is it impossible to install RCC Caliber? After all, calibers for land or sea targets do not differ in size, the difference is inside

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Rurikovich

For coastal defense and operations on relatively small theater of operations (Black and Baltic Seas)

Yes, it seems, and not only ...

22800 series ships should have, in comparison with representatives of another Russian project of the Buyan-M RTOs, better seaworthiness, since they were originally intended for use in open sea theaters

(Yu. Makarov, A. Mozgovoy. "Through hardships ... to common sense." National Defense, No. 1, January 2016.)

[Rurikovich]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

22800 series ships should have, in comparison with representatives of another Russian project of the Buyan-M RTOs, better seaworthiness, since they were originally intended for use in open sea theaters

So no one argues Even small yachts with 1 person travel around the world In this case, these ships are simply improved Buyans, and the improvements relate primarily to ensuring seaworthiness, because a ship designed for certain conditions (a river, closed waters such as the Caspian Sea), where hull contours are developed for certain hydrological conditions, may feel bad for in larger waters, where the wavelength can be different and the combination of different factors such as currents, winds, depths can be such that the hull contours no longer provide conditions for the use of weapons. Somewhere they changed the dimensions, somewhere they changed the parameters of the section of the hull at different perpendiculars, maybe added zygomatic keels to improve the characteristics of the ship under various conditions at sea ... And there are also different concepts of hull completeness, roll, yaw, etc. , which also affects seaworthiness. I'm not an engineer, I can only assume logically In any case, "open sea theater" can also refer to the same BM and WW in comparison with large rivers or the coastal zone of the Caspian

[NEXUS]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Yes, it seems, and not only ...

Greetings, Boa constrictor.
That's what I think, Karakurts are now being built as carriers of Caliber ... but something tells me that in the near future they will be built as carriers of Zircons ... at least part of the series.

[alexmach]

But where are they ideal then? Neither air defense nor anti-aircraft defense. IMHO For the coast you need full-fledged Corvettes, and this is a highly specialized gain ship ... that's just what gain?

[210ox]

In your opinion, it is now impossible to engage in "big" ships? The oligarchs are interfering? This is something that always interferes with the useless dancer .. And we need an ocean fleet under any government arrangement. If only the state organizers would not walk in the wake of the zashtatnikov ...

Quote: Rurikovich

Quote: Alex_Rarog

but still I would like to read the news about the laying of ships of the first and second rank!

Such ships are almost ideal for coastal defense and operations on relatively small theater of operations (Black and Baltic Seas). Therefore, in the conditions of the economy in which Russia is now located and with such a state system with a large share of private capital (read - oligarchy), it is quite realistic to saturate the fleet with such ships. But it will be possible to seriously engage in ships of the 1st and 2nd rank when the money from the sale of the country's natural wealth will go not to the pockets of 1% of the population, but to the budget.

[Talgat]

Quote: Rurikovich

in the conditions of the economy in which Russia is now located and with such a state system with a large share of private capital (read - oligarchy), it is quite realistic to saturate the fleet with such ships. But it will be possible to seriously engage in ships of 1 and 2 rank when the money from the sale of the country's natural wealth will go not into the pockets of 1% of the population, but into the budget.

Dear Rurikovich fully agrees with you

[KaPToC]

Quote: Alex_Rarog

Good ships! But still I would like to read the news about the laying of ships of the first and second rank!

The era of marine dinosaurs is a thing of the past, large ships will only be in the role of flagships for ships of the second and third rank.

[drunkram]

First, defense, and then ships of the sea zone, you need to start with defense

[valerian]

more haze is needed, a storm with a haze of kaklov wakes ...

[tanit]

A lot of what is needed, a lot of things not yet. And we all die (sooner or later, one way or another)

[common man]

But if on these MRCs the launch complex for the Caliber is replaced by the Shtil-1 SAM with the appropriate detection and tracking means. It would have turned out not a bad defense missile defense system. Given that the main enemy of the nuclear submarines is anti-submarine aircraft, they could be used to cover strategic deployment zones. Cheap and cheerful.

[Wiruz]

The installation of appropriate means of detecting and tracking air targets for the Shtil-1 air defense system will require an increase in the size of the mast, as a result, the displacement will be increased, which will require more power of the power plant, or reduce the speed of the ship. We are here on the website, with one friend we once discussed on the topic of optimizing the armament of the corvette of pr.20386 - every time the cruiser turned out. Do not do it this way
As for covering the SSBN, then I do not agree. A lot of enemy aircraft fly near the base points of our submarines? I am sure that no. When deploying an SSBN, enemy submarines pose a great threat, of which there are enough of them on our shores.

[Bering Strait]

You’d better speed up the construction of those ships that are already under construction, otherwise they will build one corvette for 7-11 years ... Shame ...

[donavi49]

Well, Pella will not be able to build 20380 - for geographical reasons. Moreover, she will not be able to help in any way bother these corvettes at the Amur plant.

And he collects his orders quickly. That year the head Hurricane was kicked out.

[Bering Strait]

If the private owners cannot provide the fleet, then the defense industry enterprises need to be nationalized, and at Pella they wanted to modernize the shipyards in order to build larger ships. It is not clear why, for example, missile boats 12300 have been built for so long, since 2001 ... It looks like deliberate sabotage ...

[alexmach]

I’m looking at his (presumably) photo and wondering if his beautiful radars will fly away when Onyx starts from VPU.

[Bering Strait]

The question is relevant, but even if everything was correctly calculated and there will be no problems with the Onyx launches, the absence of anti-submarine weapons already makes this ship meat for any NATO submarine, of which Turkey alone has 14 pieces ... We need to accelerate the construction of multipurpose ships, although would corvettes: 20380,20385,20386, since through the fault of the Moscow lobbyists of Ukraine Russia was left without frigates ... And not to waste time and money on defective ships that are not capable of fighting enemy submarines and have weak air defense ...

[Roman 11]

Quote: Bering Strait

It is necessary to accelerate the construction of multi-purpose ships, at least corvettes: 20380,20385,20386, because, due to the fault of Moscow lobbyists in Ukraine, Russia was left without frigates ...

We have so many ships idle at the berths, but how many are under repair? Where to collect crews for armada of frigates and corvettes, and even funds for their maintenance?

[alexmach]

Where do you see ships idle? all that can-works to the limit.
All that does not come out of the repair - can no longer.

[Bering Strait]

To cut back the content of Rublevian drunks and pseudo-effective managers who are using their hands at unprofitable, or rather plundered, enterprises ... They spend so much on prizes, corporate parties and salaries that the Baltic Fleet of the Russian Federation can be rebuilt with this money and at least ... It wasn’t bad to introduce a progressive tax and a luxury tax in the Russian Federation, to at least make the impudent rublevsky thief replenish the state budget ... Stop writing that an apartment of 150 square meters is supposedly budget housing ... We have most of Russia living in apartments more than 50 square meters, so 150 meters is a luxury against the background of the bulk of the population ... Either let them raise the standard of living of the population as a whole, or let them pay additional taxes for their beautiful and frivolous lives against the background of the very not rich bulk of the population of the Russian Federation .. Mercedes 500 and 600 is also a luxury, let them pay extra taxes for them ...

[KaPToC]

Quote from rudolf

We are not so rich that we would build cheap specialized ships.

This is in vain, 22800 will have 8 3P14 UVP, that is, what you specialize in is the same (except for air defense). Well, apparently with target designation there will be a complete seam, that is, shooting only at external target designation.
P.S. would have come up with an anti-aircraft missile for UVP 3S14 for complete versatility.
The mass of the 48N6E rocket corresponds to the mass of calibers.

[KaPToC]

Quote from rudolf

In order to ensure the full safety of the water area, you will have to detach several small ships at once, each of which will carry out tasks in its intended purpose.

So it will be, the platform crisis dictates the conditions - maximum dispersal.

Quote from rudolf

In a displacement of 600-800 tons, you will not be able to place everything you need to withstand surface, underwater, and air threats, and in any case, you will have to sacrifice something.

The specialist is similar to flux - it is said by dibules. The specialist is better than the versatile person.

Quote from rudolf

MRK’s seaworthiness on the use of weapons will never be higher than 5-6 points.

The natural limit to reduce displacement is seaworthiness.

[KaPToC]

A pointless question, no places for uranium are provided for in karakurt.
Karakurt is three times cheaper than corvettes, can three specialized RTOs perform the functions of one corvette?

[g1v2]

These are completely different things. MRK - this is an extremely cheap platform for calibers - a re-launch rocket boat. Everything else is additional, optional options. The task of the MRK is to shoot its 8 missiles and tear the claws. After the launch of the missiles, his participation in the battle and survival is no longer important. In principle, the Armor-m installation is useful, since it allows you to participate in the protection of more valuable ships from the PCR, but it is optional. He has no other appointments.
The whole task of the boat is to shoot the first 8 rockets and drape. Therefore, such ships need a lot and as cheap as possible.
Well, and most importantly. The construction period of such a ship is 2 years, the shipyards for its construction are enough, and for all fleets. We can easily lay down at the same time a dozen 2-3 such MRCs in the event of a dangerous period in the world and get them in 2 years. The mortgaged destroyer will be built in 8-9 years, when the war can already begin and end.
The expensive world wunderwaffles like tigers won the Second World War - it was won by the mass and cheap t34. So Karakurt and Varshavyanka in this case are like the same mass and cheap T34.

[NEXUS]

Quote from rudolf

Displacement of 1,2-1,6 thousand tons. It is with these ships that the fleet must be saturated first, and then dream about everything else.

Rudolph, welcome.
Agree with you. But, I believe, today, in the absence of a domestic gas turbine for corvettes, we don’t have much choice. I have said many times that our fleets need large quantities of corvettes and frigates, but so far the construction of both of them is going on with great creak.
In fact, I think so, we have a big gap in new ships up to 6000 tons in fleets ... while in the construction of ships from 1500 to 6000 tons, in fact, our horse was not lying around. That number of corvettes and frigates of the admiral's series is a drop in the sea. And the construction of the Karakurt, as I understand it, is more of a forced measure in order to strengthen the coastal zone.
But they can be built a lot and most importantly quickly. I think this is the main reason for the construction of these RTOs. Although the truth is, it would be better for me to really double the tons to 1500 tons, build light corvettes with the same 12-16 PUs.

[NEXUS]

Quote from rudolf

Kolomna engines stand on the Baltic corvettes. Why are they of extremely low quality, a separate issue. But they are.

All right you say. But why should I put the Kolomna SU, if they are sorry, to say the least, not of very good quality? Yes, now they are testing new gas turbines for corvettes and frigates, but the question is, when will we receive them, taking into account refinements, improvements and debugging?
But we need corvettes and frigates yesterday and what’s the worst thing, in kapets, in what large quantities. This is today the truth of life, unfortunately.

Quote from rudolf

If the corvette has already become too complicated and expensive for us, then you can calmly blow your cheeks and continue to forget about the ocean fleet.

Do not chop off your shoulder, friend. I understand your irritation and, to be honest, I feel the same thing. But so far, without NORMAL GTU, we have to wait ... and in this situation, I think the expectation of death is similar.

[NEXUS]

Quote from rudolf

There, Furke-2 is not friends with Redoubt, and the desalination plants fail, and the power cable routes are on fire, and there’s a whole bunch more.

True. But the problem itself will not be solved, friend. Under a lying stone ... you know yourself.

Quote from rudolf

Not in the gas turbine business, Andrew

And in it too. To paraphrase the words of an aircraft designer ... a ship is being built around the engine. No SU no ship.

Quote from rudolf

And the fact is that we are losing the competence to build complex ships in general.

And I do not say this from branch to branch? Announcement of new ship projects comes with enviable regularity, but where is all this in hardware? They feed us breakfast ... Remember the times of war ... Bismarck was built in 4 years! And he was the head one. We have been building frigates for 7 years, and present the models of Leader, Storm and Surf at all exhibitions. About the submarine fleet in general is another story. Ash-trees, Lada and problems with the Mace are already erased here to the holes.
The rupture of cooperation hit hard and so on our half-dead shipbuilding. And in fact, now we are talking about the survival of our military shipbuilding as a whole. You said absolutely correctly about corvettes and frigates. We need a lot of them in a very short time. And how I will solve this problem, to be honest I do not really understand.

[NEXUS]

Quote from rudolf

Is the lack of their own gas turbines, this is unexpected news?

And I’ll tell you how it was ... I’m more than sure that they thought so, they will agree with the Ukrainians at the top, and we will continue to take gas turbines from Ukraine. But it turned out that it turned out that no one was going to negotiate with the Ukrainians. And then the fried rooster pecked at us. And now, as usual, in emergency mode we are fighting our gas turbines.

Quote from rudolf

And we laugh at the Chinese.

Have you heard that the Chinese complained about their GTU build quality, etc.? After all, for sure, the quality is not so hot there, but they are building a fleet with a record speed. We have almost ready corvettes, due to the lack of their gas turbines they are selling to India. Absurd, given the state of our fleets. Up to 9000 tons of destroyer are projected ... and where is it? Apparently believe that Sarych and Atlanta are eternal. 6 frigates under 25 are planned to be built ... well, yes. Moreover, no one says that we need at least a dozen such frigates for each fleet, and even for the Caspian flotilla. And there are as many corvettes. And this is at least. That is, roughly 40 frigates and 40 corvettes ... but not at all 6 pieces for all fleets.
Varshavyanka say ... so how many give birth is Lada with VNEU? So what? Are we preparing it for export in the form of Cupid? And then why should we? Breakfast about Kalina, which is not even in the layout yet.

[NEXUS]

Quote from rudolf

All our problems are in our own heads.

And not only. We’re trying to upgrade the fleet. It’s good, albeit expensive, but necessary. But I'm sorry, where is it all to build? Those shipyards that are not enough to build quickly and at the same time, so that the arrival of new ships is quantitatively ahead of the departure of decommissioned or outdated . And there is also the modernization of existing ships and submarines, repairs in the end. And where does it all do that? We’re talking about the aircraft carrier we’re about to build, Leader destroyers, helicopter carriers and the BDK ... but we’re not saying much about where we are going to build it, besides corvettes, frigates, new nuclear submarines, cruisers. You can shout “Hurray!” Until you turn blue, only from these screeches there will be no more shipyards and docks.
And one more important point. Even if we build new shipyards, specialists and designers with engineers, where will we take them? We get to the point that you won’t find a good welder.
Not to mention the crewing of new vessels. There are also many questions.

[alexmach]

Who will guarantee that the new gas turbines will be of proper quality and will not fall apart on moves above the average?

A test bench, conscientious adherence to technological processes, and the elimination of identified problems ... Although the project was old, it was worked out back in Soviet times, there shouldn’t be many design flaws there, everyone should have adjusted a long time ago.

[alexmach]

Why will gas turbines be different?

All hopes are based on the experience of operating in the Soviet Navy on "Petrels" and "Udal". It seemed to be the most problem-free power plant. Therefore, I consider it quite expedient to lay this "Daring" under power plant using the same turbines.

Although rereading your discussion above, I agree with you. The situation is really sad. At the beginning of the implementation of the shipbuilding program, everything looked substantially more rosy than it is now.

[Bronevick]

Is this a substitute for Buyans?

[Bronevick]

I thought this was a new project, but it turned out to be Scorpio from the 90s.

[Wiruz]

This is a completely new project formally created based on Scorpio.

[Bronevick]

Well, it's like Lada Granta, a brand new car created on the basis of Lada Kalina. So new or based?

[Wiruz]

Maybe, in your opinion, the Su-35 is an old project created on the basis of the Su-27 from the eighties? If so, then, I'm sorry, I’ll throw something heavy at you

[Bronevick]

You don’t have to throw anything. Well, the su-35 really can not be called a new aircraft, it is a 4 ++ generation fighter. But after all, there are already 5th generation airplanes, here they are airplanes of a new project. T-50 aircraft of a new project, it is created from scratch. Yes, and for the Su 35, only the fuselage of the su 27 was taken as the basis, and even then it was modified, and it became unique, the wing is completely new. So the Su 35 essentially has no details from the su 27.

[Wiruz]

Now look what remains of Karakurt from the old Scorpio? Are they alike in any way?

[colonel manuch]

All this is very good, if only "effective managers" again did not turn everything into long-term construction.

[Zomanus]

It seems to me that these are not so much ships as platforms for cruise missiles.
Not such monsters, of course, as the Atlant project, but the essence is the same.
So there are a lot of such ships
for they can cause a lot of damage to the enemy.

[Wiruz]

It seems to me that these are not so much ships as platforms for cruise missiles.

So it is, in fact

[Aandrewsir]

Good news!

[Sergey F]

I am not an expert in ships, but for some reason I am convinced that if they are built, then we need this!
It means we are strengthening not only power on earth and in the air, but also on the sea! And this is essential!

[Alexey-74]

Great news, such small, but very modern ships with high-precision missile weapons are very necessary in the coastal and not only zones, given the basins of the Baltic and Black Seas.