Military Review

"Tigers" go to the East. Almost screenplay ...

118
Often, our perceptions of war and related events are drawn in the worst case from the movie, where the battery is commanded by the “17 tube”, and the shells for some reason explode on the ground, and in the best of books, but ... books are very often of their era, which were written within certain limits. And it turned out that when literate and talented people were still able to write talented books about the war, many of them were emasculated. But when it became possible to write everything, there were no such people!


"Tigers" go to the East. Almost screenplay ...

"Tiger" in the Royal Museum of Armored Vehicles in Bovington.


But this is a homemade "Tigr" by V. Verevochkin, unfortunately, now deceased, from the village of B. Oyosh near Novosibirsk.

So today we have to collect crumbs from unpublished memoirs, which were written on the table, “for ourselves”, to seek out data in dissertations and archives. But again - such a work can afford a historian. But the filmmaker ... it is unlikely. He should trust someone, and to whom? A person in uniform or a historian from the archive? Or collect a “consultation” of experts, and let them decide together? Well, if not together?


And this is how it looks in Samur near Paris ...

In my time I read a number of books on tanks "Tiger", and I was struck by some specific circumstances of their combat use. And it is precisely these circumstances that this material is written in the form of a peculiar ... film script.


Tanks have arrived! Please note that the outer row of wheels on them is removed, and instead of combat tracks, transport ones are put on.

So, it all starts with the fact that somewhere in the fall of 1943 of the year a separate tank unit arrives on the line of the Soviet-German front, equipped with Tiger tanks, whose task is a counter-attack on the Soviet troops in the area where they are showing ever-increasing activity. "Russian should diminish arrogance" considers the command, well, and it is equipped with tanks directly from the factory, and their crews consist of both experienced and very young tankers. The commander is a young, but already having combat experience officer Pancervaffe on the tank "Happy Tiger". Other cars have the names: “Tiny Gratchen”, “Fat Gustav”, “Steel Drill”, “Infernal Chariot”, etc.


Let it be the protagonist of our film: obruleytenant Rudolf Knauf. Not a fascist, but devoted to the Führer and Germany, a soldier to the bone, accustomed to taking care of his subordinates.

Tanks begin to unload from the railway platforms, and it should be emphasized that they are “shod” in narrow, so-called “transport tracks”, and combat profits along with them. They are also unloaded, after which the tanks begin to “pereobuvat”, but since each such 2,5 caterpillar weighs tons, the work is slow and requires the efforts of all five crew members.


Of course, this is not a shot from “this film,” but the Tigers' tank crews spent their leisure time like this.

And it is here that the Pe-2 Soviet dive bombers hit the station, located about a hundred kilometers from the front line. It is clear that the Tigers from the ground are covered by anti-aircraft gunners, Messerschmitts are patrolling in the sky, but ... the pawns are attacking desperately and one of the bombs hits straight into the "ragged" tiger, which cannot even go to the nearest woods, because his crew of the best intentions, of course, hurried to remove the transport tracks from him, but I did not have time to put on the combat because of their weight! So part of it loses its first tank literally a couple of hours after unloading, without making a single shot. “Welcome to the war!” Say infantry soldiers to young smart tankers.


“Something is not knocking like that ...”

With a delay of four hours, the movement begins. Along with the tanks, several “251” soldiers are moving, including 20-mm anti-aircraft guns, a tractor, a mobile repair shop, that is, a whole caravan. But it moves slowly. The road is solid dirt, in which more than one car is stuck. In principle, you can go through the fields of winter crops, but there is also the famous Russian black soil, for the first tank to drive past there are layers of black, twisted earth that is packed between the wheels. The situation is not saved by the wide tracks, so that until nightfall this tank unit does not go even half the intended distance.


Damaged and outdated "tigers" had to be towed like this. By the way, two wheels from the outside row have already lost this tank somewhere!

Overnight stay in a small village with thatched houses. True, in the courtyards, where the German units were already quartered, there are comfortable and clean latrines built from the boards of the owners' sheds, since the German soldiers cannot use what the masters themselves use because of disgust.


Ammunition loading.

Tankers are so tired that they fall asleep, barely reaching the warm houses, which, by the way, policemen from the local guard. Meanwhile, two partisans make their way to one of the houses through the thickets of dry nettle. The benefit of the “booth” for the Germans is near the fence, they dig a trench under it and, because ... it is rarely used and the contents are still slightly in it, one of them climbs into the pit! And now one of the tankers in the middle of the night goes to the toilet and ... a captured German bayonet plunges him into one place right up to the handle!

The commander notes that there is no guy for a long time, he goes in search, and as a result he finds a corpse! The next morning they bury the poor man, write in his letter home that he fell in a fierce battle, and the policeman who was guarding this house ... was shot so that others could serve as they should. Depressed by such a ridiculous death of their comrade, tankers are trying to continue, but this was not the case. At night, a severe frost unexpectedly hit, causing the dirt that had piled up between the wheels to freeze so that the wheels of the tigers could not be turned. Two tanks flew transmissions while attempting to move them, while one tank had a toothed crown in the drive wheel. Another two tanks burst torsion. As a result, only four tanks could move on and that only after the dirt between the wheels was washed off with hot water, which had to be heated with buckets, and five cars had to be repaired immediately. In order to replace the torsions, it was necessary to remove six wheels from each of them, and then another 12 from two adjacent ones in order to be able to get close to it. The ring gear is changed fairly quickly, but it is impossible to replace transmissions in field conditions, so the 251, together with the towing vehicle, tows these tanks back to the station.

Four tanks, and then the fifth tank that caught up with them, move on, and it turns out that fuel consumption has exceeded all standards and tanks are at risk of reaching the front line with completely dry tanks. The tank trucks are urgently called, and they arrive, but not all — the damned partisans are undermining one along the way.


So “Tiger” had to be refilled from the barrel, and he needed a lot of barrels!

Tanks become at a gas station, which is observed by Soviet intelligence from the nearest forest through binoculars, and immediately reports this by radio. True, the commander of the tank unit is not very worried that they have to refuel during the day and not at night - after all, cloud cover is very low, and in such weather aviation usually does not fly.


Absolutely terrible Russian roads!

And here on a low-level flight from the nearby fishing line Soviet attack aircraft appear. They lead by the farm, near which there are tanks and gasoline tank trucks, heavy fire from cannons and machine guns, they release ereses, drop bombs with a clockwork mechanism. Tankers rejoice: the shells of Russian aviation cannons only sparks from Krupp armor, the erasi fly inaccurately and do not fall into the tanks, the bombs also fall past the target, so all the tanks seem to be intact. Not lucky tankers! All of them are riddled with bullets and flare up like torches, one takes off into the air and the tank standing next to it lights up! As a result, there are only four tanks left, and the supply of fuel for them is limited.


The speed at the level of a pedestrian, and it is not surprising: you cannot accelerate chernozem!

The commander of the unit agrees with the command that refueling will be carried out at night by the river, seven kilometers from the front line, which they will have to force to get there.

Since the ground is frozen, the tanks go quickly and stay to the place of the crossing even before the pontoon park manages to get there. Have to wait. Snow crumbled from the sky, but then a thaw suddenly begins and everything around again turns to dirt. Even tankers have to cope with the need while standing on a tank, because otherwise poods of dirt are guaranteed on boots, and how will you get into the tank with such legs?

Then the pontoon park arrives, the pontoons are lowered into the water, but it turns out that tanks cannot enter them on combat tracks and again they have to be “re-packed”. Only now, when they are all in the dirt, it is much more difficult to do.


And it was possible and so stuck, for the most "I do not want"!

Unable to withstand, the tank commander "Fat Gustav" suggests trying to move to that bank on a wooden bridge located nearby. The bridge looks quite strong, and if the tank is lightened to the limit, freed from ammunition, machine guns, drained the fuel, and then accelerated to maximum speed, then he may be able to slip through to the other side. Of course, the instruction of such experiments forbids, but the commander sees that here in Russia no instructions are valid, and he allows his tankman to act at his own peril and risk, all the more so since he referred to Jules Verne as a child — the novel Around the World in eighty days ”, where exactly the railway train crosses the bridge over the precipice. "Fat Gustav" "exposes", his commander himself sits in the driver's seat, accelerates his tank, drives off to the bridge, and ... falls through the flooring in the very middle of it!


Well, to change the torsion in such mud was real torture! Photo is, however, made in Italy, but the dirt, and in Italy it is dirt!

He is unable to get out of the tank, and it is hardly possible to save him - because the water is icy, and the tank, in addition to everything else, has fallen upwards with caterpillars and is stuck in thick mud.


To replace the torsion - and they, because of the large weight of the "tigers", broke down quite often, again, it was required to remove entire 18 wheels, nine from each side.

Meanwhile, the Soviet army intelligence continues to observe and report, and now several Katyushas are being deployed right next to the advanced beam, and as soon as the first tank is on the pontoon in the middle of the river, they open fire. Missiles fly one after another, the river is covered with fountains of ruptures, and now one of the pontoon with the tank rolls over and sinks.


But froze, and the tanks went a lot faster!

Two tanks nevertheless are forwarded to that shore, they are met and ... the commander is asked with surprise, but where are the other vehicles? The next morning a tank attack on Russian positions is planned, even old Czech tanks will be involved, and there are only two so much awaited “tigers”!


To stop on the side of the road near the forest was not recommended to the German tankmen, especially if their tank was defective. You never know ...

The morning begins with the rumble of artillery preparation, after which the German tanks with two "tigers" at the head start moving. The artillery is beating at the approaching tanks from the Russian trenches, the PTRs are firing, the cars that come up close are being bombarded with grenades and bottles of flammable liquid. And there is no special "strain" in everything that happens. The infantry skillfully fires, the armored fighters shoot accurately, machine guns, as it should be, cut off the infantry from the tanks with fire. There is, in general, a fairly everyday combat work and it is gradually becoming clear: this is not the 41 now! One 38 (t) tank lights up, then the German T-III and T-IV with a short gun, but both “tigers” stubbornly creep forward. And then one of them practically beats the 122-mm corps gun, which still remained in silence, and with the very first blow it blows down the turret. However, she does not have time to make the second shot. She is noticed by the commander of the "Happy Tiger" and falls asleep in her position with shells.


Last preparations before the battle.

Russian defense seems to be broken, the infantry broke into the trenches. But in the rear they have five tanks T-34 arr. 42 of the year with Mickey Mouse hatches. They begin to move, and in a wide arc they embrace a crawling forward "tiger", accompanied by infantry supporting it. “Shoot like an exercise! “The commander orders, first at the far left, then everyone else in an arc!” And yes, indeed, at first, the shell of the Hitler tank breaks the caterpillar from the farthest and furthest tank. The crew throws a smoke bomb on the armor and pretends that the tank has been destroyed.

The second gets more. He shell hit the board, and he lights up in the present. Tankers in burning overalls jump into the snow and that’s the only way they escape. Two tanks, reaching to the right, are also being destroyed by the shells of the "Tiger" one by one, but the fifth, fifth, in the meantime, reaches the direct shot range and thrusts a projectile into his side. "Tiger" twitches and also begins to burn, and its commander, along with the rest of the crew run to flee to the rear. And here the tank smoked by a smoke grenade comes to life on the left flank, and it is accepted to peel at fleeing Fritz in black overalls from a cannon and a machine gun. One commander rescues, gets to the headquarters, where he finds out that Cossacks broke through to the rear, that the Russian tanks for some reason turned out to be larger than expected, their artillery was hurricane fire, and there were practically no reserves. the front line "along the river, because the Russians will not be able to force it right away.


Two "tiger" moved to the attack.

The loud “Hurray!” Of the Soviet infantry that had risen to the counterattack, is already heard very close, the IL-2 attack aircraft again appear in the sky and ... seeing that the situation is worse than ever, the commander of the “Happy Tiger” on the last staff vehicle runs across the river. Then he repeats all the way to the station and on it he meets all his broken and lagging tanks. None of their crews survived. The partisans killed someone at night, and their corpses were lying around with the cars standing, and someone just disappeared somewhere, and the tank was still stuck in mud, and it was. At the station, they ask him where his part is, where the people are, and he answers that both the people and the tanks remained all there, in the east, where at that very time a crimson sunset is burning in the sky.


Well, from our side, these machines will have to fight, and not the T-34 / 85 from the liberation film epic. Because this was twice as difficult as those that appeared later. And those who sat in them, because everyone knew about these tanks and knew about the “tiger” tanks, but they still did their job and did it well, no matter what!

The most interesting thing is that the events described here are not invented (even if it is a “cinema”), and all somehow took place in reality, although, of course, not at the same time and not in the same place
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  1. askold
    askold 30 December 2016 15: 50 New
    12
    Liked it, thanks!
    As there V. V. Vysotsky in a song about a pilot:
    "... They don’t even need crosses to the graves, -
    Crosses will descend also on wings! ... "
  2. Dekabrist
    Dekabrist 30 December 2016 16: 03 New
    36
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you start spraying, which is why the level decreases. The example of Shirokorada illustrates this clearly.
    For the film "Liberation" You are unfair. It very seriously approached the issue of reliability. And the layout of the "Tigers" in the film gives only the chassis. T34-76 at that time simply did not survive, therefore, a wooden tower model was placed on the T34-85. With the rest of the equipment is more complicated, it was not. And 3D MAX was then absent. But all that was possible, the filmmakers did.
    By the way, today the possibilities are much wider, but modern films about the war look like the games of overreacted reenactors.
    1. kalibr
      30 December 2016 16: 33 New
      10
      Victor, it’s impossible to write all the materials on one level. Fluctuation with respect to a certain axis has always been and will be. Writing on VO is my job and there will always be someone who likes and dislikes the material. Purely psychologically, I can't write locks and rifles all the time (there aren’t enough rifles!), And the reader won’t be interested. So you have to endure something better, something worse, endure ... And the fact that the "overreacted reenactors" - yes, I agree. But this material does not pretend to be a script. This is a fictionalized account of the problems of the Tiger tank.
      But the creators of "Liberation" did not yet do everything possible. Not everyone!
      1. Dekabrist
        Dekabrist 30 December 2016 16: 43 New
        +3
        By the way, we crossed involuntarily with rifles. So let me know which tank is next.
        1. kalibr
          30 December 2016 17: 54 New
          +3
          Which tank is next? I don’t know ... for what interesting information there is!
        2. moskowit
          moskowit 30 December 2016 21: 20 New
          +3
          Competition is good. If you write about tanks, then the informative field will only expand ... In favor of everyone ... You can, quite, supplement the article by Vyacheslav. I think our colleagues will only be happy to read some interesting additional material.
          God help you!
          1. Dekabrist
            Dekabrist 31 December 2016 01: 24 New
            +2
            Ilf and Petrov in our performance is unlikely to succeed.
            1. moskowit
              moskowit 31 December 2016 11: 50 New
              +3
              Something, right, you "Dekabrist", ruffy. Tolerance must be tolerant. Nobody calls for you to write together, but the hope is expressed for a more complete coverage of the material ... "One head is good, and two is better" ...
              For this, let me wish you creative success and all the best for the upcoming New Year !!! drinks
              1. Dekabrist
                Dekabrist 31 December 2016 20: 34 New
                0
                Thank you, mutually.
    2. Evver
      Evver 30 December 2016 17: 13 New
      +4
      NIV - cooler "Liberation" in our cinema has not yet filmed!
    3. Stas57
      Stas57 30 December 2016 19: 22 New
      +7
      For the film "Liberation" You are unfair. It very seriously approached the issue of reliability

      oh, an icon of style with running sissals with machine guns, taking cities for the holiday and other popular markets, there’s not and never will be a worse movie about the war.

      However, having taken up a good deed, the authors could not fulfill it conscientiously. The film is full of flagrant errors, under the guise of historical facts, the audience is often offered rumors and gossip, the interpretation of many events does not stand up to scientific criticism. No wonder “Liberation” is called the encyclopedia of myths about the war. It was he who formed the idea of ​​the war of many generations of our fellow citizens born after it. From there, hordes of German machine gunners migrated to other films, books, to the pages of newspapers and magazines, he launched into the people the fictitious phrase “I don’t exchange soldiers for marshals!” And left the Russians and Germans with the only type of tanks - T-34 and “tiger” . The episode with the liberation of Kiev also contradicts all known historical data. In the film, he looks as follows. I.V. Stalin and 1-th Deputy Chief of the General Staff A.I. Antonov discuss the situation, standing by the map.
      talin: When are you planning to take Kiev? Antonov: Not earlier than the twentieth of November, Comrade Stalin. Stalin: Too late! We need to take the sixth of November, to the anniversary of the October Revolution. Everything is not true here. And Kiev was not going to take in late November, and the anniversary of the October Revolution dragged out of place.



      Source: Great Slandered War-2. We have nothing to repent for !: Collection / A. Dyukov, D. Makeev, I. Pykhalov, A. Isaev

      1. AUL
        AUL 31 December 2016 12: 40 New
        +6
        I agree, the film "Liberation" is a product of its time. Shot, undoubtedly, by a talented team, sins with a number of historical and technical errors. But then it was not considered essential, the main thing is ideologically sustained. Therefore, it gives away some vulgarity. And without this idealization, they would not have been released to the screen.
  3. sania275
    sania275 30 December 2016 16: 15 New
    +8
    It would be better if they wrote a script and made a film based on Leonid Leonov’s book “The Capture of Velikoshumsk”. And in general, about the Great Patriotic War, there is still no worthy large-scale film, but we all watch how the Americans “win great”
  4. Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 30 December 2016 16: 20 New
    +1
    The story about how the "tiger" became ambushed, waited for the moment and began to shoot at the Sherman column or 34, too (this explains the appearance of German tank aces). Yes, and the Sherman and 34. tankers, it was also probably not fun to attack the tiger without seeing him, and knowing about his gun and optics, and then at the headquarters to tell that they lost so many tanks and crews, attacking only one tiger. If my sclerosis does not fail me, then only in the year 44 we produced more tanks than we lost.
    But cinema, it is cinema in Africa. I remember watching the "beauty Memphis", was shocked by comparison. I sometimes think why directors create a nature that does not look like what it was in reality, you can do with plywood with the words tank, plane, brrr bach, tra-taa-ta, forest, sea, etc., and a viewer with a developed imagination will finish everything rest.
    my last shock was from the movie “I See The Purpose”. 20 minutes were enough, then I watched on an accelerated Benny Heal show (I remembered the words of Promakashki-he, This is what I can do).
    1. kalibr
      30 December 2016 16: 38 New
      0
      And what exactly didn’t you like about "Beauty ...". I am not an expert in masolets, but all of a sudden the B-17s were very good.
      1. Kostya Andreev
        Kostya Andreev 30 December 2016 16: 51 New
        0
        I didn’t put it right, I was shocked by the fact that I liked the way it was shot, the planes fights, and compared with our films, they lacked entertainment
        .
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 1 January 2017 15: 04 New
      +3
      "Well, the movie, it is in Africa, the movie" ////

      By the way, about Africa. First tigers
      (except for 4, which were lost in the trials - unsuccessful - on the Volkhov Front)
      were sent not to the Eastern Front, but to Africa - Rommel.
      Rommel - Hitler's favorite - got all the best “from the assembly line”: T-4 and Tigers.
      There was their first baptism of fire. Despite victories in the English tanks,
      the remaining Tigers (some were knocked out by the British anti-tank guns) were taken by the Allies
      captured along with the remains of Rommel's crocus and the Italian army at the end of 1942.
      Pictured is a Tiger captured by the Americans in Tunisia.
  5. Evver
    Evver 30 December 2016 17: 12 New
    +3
    I liked it ... only in this case - the story is almost from the face of "Tigers" and their "inhabitants" ... And I would like to - on behalf of their fighters laughing
    1. kalibr
      30 December 2016 17: 28 New
      13
      But this is all the salt! Fighters are ... corny! And then ... the "heroes" of the enemy. And he is shown up and down in shit, dirt, in labors and cares ... on his head! But ... who called him into our mud? None! This is the essence!
      1. Evver
        Evver 30 December 2016 17: 33 New
        +2
        Accepted smile
  6. Terner38
    Terner38 30 December 2016 17: 53 New
    +3
    The photo report is also very interesting.
  7. Fitter65
    Fitter65 30 December 2016 18: 09 New
    +3
    So “Tiger” had to be refilled from the barrel, and he needed a lot of barrels!

    You should have looked at the photo where our T-34s run the buckets ... There are a lot of solariums, but the Buckets are few.
    No need to jerk, the Tiger was a very serious opponent, ..
    1. Tima62
      Tima62 31 December 2016 00: 55 New
      +3
      Show pictures with buckets.
      For refueling tigers do not need very many barrels, three is enough. And if you fill in cans? 34ka will be more economical tigers.
      In the second photo, it's true fours, but still there are a lot of canisters.
      1. Tima62
        Tima62 31 December 2016 00: 59 New
        +2
        I apologize. Photo

        It’s bad that there is no comment preview function.
    2. Andrey NM
      Andrey NM 31 December 2016 06: 37 New
      11
      The Tiger had a fuel consumption of almost 1000 liters per 100 km. Sometimes fit in 800 liters on a good road. Tank refueling was not enough for 100 km. And the T-34 - about 140 liters on the highway, well, let 200 liters on rough terrain and the full refueling was 450 liters, and there were additional tanks.
  8. Fitter65
    Fitter65 30 December 2016 18: 14 New
    +7
    Let it be the main character of our film: Oberleutnant Rudolf Knauf
    . Not a fascist
    but devoted to the Führer and Germany, a soldier to the marrow of bones, used to take care of his subordinates.

    He could not be a fascist, the fascists were in ITALY! He could be a member of the NSDAP, especially since he is a member of the SS, even the Wafen-SS, but he is still an "Aryan" ..means all the same a Nazi, since the SS means Nazi!!!!!
  9. Crane
    Crane 30 December 2016 19: 17 New
    13
    Dear author, replace the "wheels" with "rollers", and then as a sickle on ...
  10. bistrov.
    bistrov. 30 December 2016 19: 21 New
    +5
    Quite interesting material, especially photographs. By the way, the Tiger could be wound manually, with an ordinary curved crank (box). Here, where the resting crew sits near the stern of the tank, you can see the hole muffled by a special plug (between the silencers) to establish the crank. To insert it, the plug must be removed and a special insert inserted, then insert the handle and you can rotate it. Imagine what it is like to rotate a 12-cylinder engine.
    One of the photographs shows the loading of ammunition through the loader’s hatch, it was square, had two hinged covers (there were 3 hatchways in the tower above, the gunner and commander had their own hatches) But most often the ammunition was loaded through the fourth hatch, which was located behind the tower, on the right side .. It was round and as if folding, but very heavy (by the thickness of the turret’s armor), it was impossible to close it alone. The driver’s mechanic and the radio operator’s arrow had one sunroof for two, it was located in the front, in the middle, in the roof buildings in front of the tower. There was another evacuation hatch, it is located under the driver's seat. All hatches were equipped with high-quality rubber gaskets.-Seals.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 30 December 2016 21: 13 New
      +5
      Quote: bistrov.
      Here, where the resting crew sits near the stern of the tank, you can see the hole muffled by a special plug (between the silencers) to establish the crank. To insert it, the plug must be removed and a special insert inserted, then insert the handle and you can rotate it. Imagine what it is like to rotate a 12-cylinder engine.

      As a person who has the rights of a tractor driver, an excavator driver, I dare to assure you that they did not twist 12 engine cylinders there!

      And in general, watch from 10.00 minutes.
    2. MORDVIN13rus
      MORDVIN13rus 30 December 2016 21: 24 New
      +4
      Quote: bistrov.

      One of the photographs shows the loading of ammunition through the loader’s hatch, it was square, had two hinged covers (there were 3 hatchways in the tower above, the gunner and commander had their own hatches) But most often the ammunition was loaded through the fourth hatch, which was located behind the tower, on the right side .. It was round and as if folding, but very heavy (by the thickness of the turret’s armor), it was impossible to close it alone. The driver’s mechanic and the radio operator’s arrow had one sunroof for two, it was located in the front, in the middle, in the roof buildings in front of the tower. There was another evacuation hatch, it is located under the driver's seat. All hatches were equipped with high-quality rubber gaskets.-Seals.


      Pretty bold statement about hatches wassat On the tower, the Tiger had 2 hatches: the commander’s hatch and the loader’s hatch. The driver and radio operator also had a hatch, the only thing that spoiled the oil painting was that the hatch of the mechanic and radio operator was very strongly shifted to the sides of the hull, and not strictly above the place. Therefore, when marching in the marching position, it was not very convenient to drive the tank. But the fact that loading the ammunition is through the loader’s hatch is just a necessary measure, since loading it through the standard window was not very convenient.
    3. WapentakeLokki
      WapentakeLokki 31 December 2016 19: 45 New
      0
      About The driver mechanic and the operator of the radio operator had one hatch for two, it was located in the front, in the middle, in the roof of the hull, in front of the tower. where are you from? You haven’t confused the T-72 for an hour. Find in the archive photos of the Tiger from the top in front and blush
      1. svp67
        svp67 31 December 2016 19: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: WapentakeLokki
        Find in the archive photos of the Tiger from the top in front and blush

        Something you either confuse or blush seems to you ... In the case of TWO hatch, one at a time above the jobs, fur-water and arrow ...



        And the Royal Tiger cub is the same TWO
  11. The comment was deleted.
    1. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 30 December 2016 22: 05 New
      +5
      But nothing shameful, quite a plausible picture, this could happen in reality and, most likely, happened. In my opinion, the author of the article has an adequate idea of ​​how everyday life and battles were with the enemy tankers, and if you have your own idea, which you think is more reliable, then imagine it.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 30 December 2016 22: 57 New
        +4
        But nothing shameful, quite a believable picture


        what is believable, the Tigers and Prague in one attack or the Jumping bridge on an almost 60 ton machine?

        or is it this?

        ..five tanks T-34 arr. 42 of the year ...
        The second gets more. He gets a shell on board, and he lights up for real. Tankers in burning overalls jump out into the snow and this is the only way they are saved.

        alas, in life the T34 gun did not hit the tiger on board already with 200 m



        eh, if everything was so beautiful, then the war would have ended at Brest
        Further, it does not make sense to disassemble this slag. talent, no humor, no facts
        1. Dekabrist
          Dekabrist 30 December 2016 23: 18 New
          +5
          Finally, you got to the point yourself. Level, level ... that matches the needs of the site. Does the material find its grateful reader? Finds. The current VO site is far from what it was before. People ask such questions that you don’t know whether to laugh or cry. So don’t shoot a pianist, he plays. . . as he was asked.
          1. kalibr
            31 December 2016 12: 36 New
            0
            Ay-ah-ah, Victor! You will discover all the "secrets" of the site. Do not forget the saying that one who lives in a glass house should not throw stones at others!
            1. Dekabrist
              Dekabrist 31 December 2016 20: 30 New
              +4
              The fact that the site is losing its level has been said for a long time, not the first I raised this topic. This can be seen with the naked eye. So I do not accept charges.
          2. Stas57
            Stas57 31 December 2016 17: 19 New
            +1
            The current VO site is far from what it used to be. People ask such questions that you don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

            therefore, there are 2 options - to increase the level or to lisp as in kindergarten, reducing your level, we often see the second
          3. The comment was deleted.
            1. Dekabrist
              Dekabrist 2 January 2017 11: 17 New
              +1
              The fact that they are being cleared is known firsthand. And the fact that the site has been reformatted to increase traffic due to hamsters, couch troops and other Internet fraudsters has been said repeatedly. And the supply of material slides toward boulevard and yellowness. But ... Who pays, he orders. An alternative site does not create. Who will take it?
              1. Razvedka_Boem
                Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 12: 28 New
                +2
                The fact that they are being cleared is known firsthand. And the fact that the site has been reformatted to increase traffic due to hamsters, couch troops and other Internet fraudsters has been said repeatedly. And the supply of material slides toward boulevard and yellowness. But ... Who pays, he orders.

                This site is made by enthusiasts. So, if you are not satisfied with VO, create your own site, and if you can’t, then treat with respect as the work of the creators,
                at the expense of hamsters, couch troops and other Internet rushers

                and to readers, including yourself.
                1. Shell
                  Shell 2 January 2017 12: 44 New
                  0
                  Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                  This site is made by enthusiasts.

                  Yes? Gratis?
                  And the AIR CHINA banners, are they for beauty?
                  And about the cucumbers?
                  1. Razvedka_Boem
                    Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 13: 01 New
                    +1
                    Advertising on any site is a common thing. After all, the site is not at your home, it is located on some server, the rental of which costs money, plus some more expenses. However, write to the admins your complaints.
                    1. Shell
                      Shell 2 January 2017 13: 08 New
                      0
                      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                      Advertising on any site is a common thing. After all, the site is not at your home, it is located on some server, the rental of which costs money, plus some more expenses.

                      Nobody argues with this. However, it is obvious that the phrase "the site is made by enthusiasts" in this case is not appropriate. Or only partially relevant.
                      1. Razvedka_Boem
                        Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 13: 15 New
                        0
                        Enthusiasts are those who do not receive money for their work, i.e. salary or other material remuneration
                2. Dekabrist
                  Dekabrist 2 January 2017 15: 36 New
                  0
                  Scouting, are you an enthusiast?
                  1. Razvedka_Boem
                    Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 15: 44 New
                    +1
                    Scouting, are you an enthusiast?

                    Sometimes it happens. In general, I am an optimist.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Shell
                Shell 2 January 2017 12: 39 New
                0
                Quote: Dekabrist
                An alternative site does not create.

                Taken already. And in my lifetime, more than once.
                But it usually ends ... with commerce. And commerce is traffic. Advertisers pay based on it.
                Quote: Dekabrist
                And the supply of material slides toward boulevard and yellowness.

                Yes, sometimes it takes a rash from materials. And their criticism is sometimes forbidden.
    2. Pretorius
      Pretorius 31 December 2016 01: 11 New
      +7
      I agree. Such nonsense. Wheels ... A dozen heavy tank battalions were kept in tension by the allied forces in the East, West and Africa. The author needs to read the recollections of the surviving tankers and allies. Something no hatred from them is heard.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 January 2017 22: 22 New
        +2
        Moreover, in each such battalion there were only 18-20 tigers. The rest are T-III. Approximately 3/1 with the Tigers. Surprisingly, many crews survived the war, despite continuous battles. With the defeat of the Tiger, the crew often survived.
  12. Darth Revan
    Darth Revan 30 December 2016 20: 03 New
    +3
    A very good article! Many thanks to the author!
  13. Kenneth
    Kenneth 30 December 2016 21: 15 New
    +2
    The author is well done. But the story of the Tiger Koshkin tank is still better.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. tchoni
    tchoni 30 December 2016 21: 57 New
    0
    So take and lower the device - it is very easy. Only fifteen hundred released tigers became a legend and a nightmare for soldiers of the anti-Hitler coalition. And it is expensive hi
  16. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 December 2016 22: 31 New
    +3
    Good script, respect to the author. Only "everything is there, in the east, where just at that very time a crimson sunset is blazing in the sky." severely hurts the eye. Where did the author see the sunset in the east?
    1. kalibr
      31 December 2016 12: 13 New
      +1
      Yeah ... I had to write "crimson dawn." In the evening I wrote - I’m tired already ...
  17. Andrey Zh
    Andrey Zh 30 December 2016 22: 44 New
    +5
    Thank you, a very interesting article! ... Right almost finished script for the film! I think that one of the directors will use it.
    (By the way, in the past, in 1990, I had to work as a foreman in a piling company. Most of the piling units were still Soviet-made, but five were produced by the former GDR. Their brand was RDK-25 (that is, based on It’s not very difficult to convert a crane into a pile driver, but I’m not talking about that. In all the appearance of the “RDK-25” it was clear that its designers in the past were from German tank-building companies - the location of the rollers was interesting , and covering the tracks outside with small sheets, like in military vehicles, and the presence of transport, narrower tracks (which we successfully applied to our Soviet units!). After reading this article, I remembered how we were also into a mud, when the earth and black soil were stuffed inside in the morning, in the morning, the whole crew hollowed the crowbar with crowbars and cleaned the undercarriage ... Of course, we didn’t water them with warm water - this is how much it is needed, and where to get it if we loaded the piles somewhere in the countryside and there are kilometers of impassability to the nearest village! ... So we always had enough trouble with tracked vehicles, alas ... I feel sorry for the tankmen!)
  18. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 30 December 2016 23: 33 New
    +1
    Shpakovsky can write if you want! The first time your article plus set !!!
    1. faiver
      faiver 31 December 2016 02: 09 New
      0
      but I didn’t set it forever .....
    2. The comment was deleted.
  19. 911sx
    911sx 31 December 2016 00: 55 New
    13
    Tiger. Probably a long time ago, in the year 80, I rode the Dnepropetrovsk-Moscow train with the couple, a married couple, a colonel, a tank crewman and his wife. The colonel, judging by the awards, went through the war. And I, the boy, was very interested in the tiger tank. judging by the performance characteristics it is much stronger than our T-34. Again tigers, according to the info of those years, 1348 pieces were released. which is an order of magnitude smaller than the T-34. Colonel. Assured me that the panther was a tank to follow, for us after the war. However, very respectful of the Tiger. And he assured me that until the end of the war, he had no rivals on the battlefield. He fought on the T-34. As part of the 5th Tank Army, he fought on the Kursk Bulge (although on a self-propelled gun, it seems Su 122 they were given to experienced tankers as a tank destroyer). Experienced tankers determined the presence of Tigers by the characteristic damage to our tanks. For instance. There is a T-34, behind it at 15-20 meters the engine and transmission with aft sheet. The shell pierced the frontal armor, knocked out the engine with the stern sheet, and the tank drove about twenty meters by inertia. Firing range 600-800 meters. From 2000 meters he could break through the T-34 from side to side. Optics allowed to shoot at long distances. The armament of the 34 ki was practically useless against the Tiger. T-34-85 appeared at the end of the 44th year. However, the T-34 gave an advantage in maneuver. Their 5th tank made a march of 300 km (in less than a day, and this is several hundred vehicles) and fell upon the Fritz near Prokhorovka (he called another settlement for their attack), which of course no German tanks of those times could do , and even more so to the Tiger. Subsequently, it was this quality of the T-34 that was in demand in all offensive operations. Any supertank was useless if it got into an environment without fuel and B.K. The colonel on Kursk was badly wounded. He recovered only at the end of the war; he fought with the Japanese. "So, how to fight the Tiger," I did not relent. "All hope for the driver" is all that he could answer me. He changed several crews (dead, wounded), and only the driver went through the whole war with him. To the question, how many tanks he knocked out, I received an answer of -6. "And how many times they beat you up." The answer is -6.
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 12: 26 New
      +1
      Maneuverability was the main weapon of the t-34. And the combination of all factors - range, mobility, optimal angle of inclination of the armor, which increased survivability on the battlefield, because the “tigers”, “panthers” and batteries of 88 mm anti-aircraft guns were not in every section, the gun, subsequently upgraded and sufficient for the medium tank, all this made the t34 a legend.
      In general, comparing a medium tank with a heavy tank is incorrect.
      1. Shell
        Shell 2 January 2017 13: 02 New
        +3
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        Maneuverability was the main weapon of the t-34.

        Wow. And how powerful this weapon was with BT, it just can not be described in words.
        Do not repeat nonsense after others.
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        after all, “tigers”, “panthers” and batteries of 88 mm anti-aircraft guns were not in every area

        But on each site were PaK40 or PaK38. Or even PaK36 - with the general blindness of T-34/76, it was not difficult for them to hit him aboard.
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        all this made the t34 a legend.

        The legend of T-34 was made by the Agitation and Propaganda Department of the CPSU Central Committee. And according to the performance characteristics, the tank was poor. Moreover, this is in the T-34/85 version. In the T-34/76 version (produced in the summer of 1944), this was a self-propelled coffin for 4. This is taking into account the nature of its operation, because the T-34/76 was made completely not for those tasks that he had to solve.
        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
        In general, comparing a medium tank with a heavy tank is incorrect.

        It's right.
        But then why compare Pz.V and Pz.VI? There were no analogues in the USSR.
        And then, the T-34 solved the same problems that the Germans solved Pz.V and Pz.VI (and before that Pz.IV). Therefore, to some extent, the comparison is still valid.
        1. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 15: 53 New
          +1
          Wow. And how powerful this weapon was with BT, it just can not be described in words.

          BT is a light tank
          Do not repeat nonsense after others.

          Do not consider yourself the ultimate truth.
          The legend of T-34 was made by the Agitation and Propaganda Department of the CPSU Central Committee. And according to the performance characteristics, the tank was poor. Moreover, this is in the T-34/85 version

          Hmm ..
          But on each site were PaK40 or PaK38. Or even PaK36 - with the general blindness of T-34/76, it was not difficult for them to hit him on board.

          Yeah, someone succeeded, and others then crushed them.
          But then why compare Pz.V and Pz.VI? There were no analogues in the USSR.

          Compare with ISs.
          1. Razvedka_Boem
            Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 16: 06 New
            +3

            Comparative characteristics of the Tiger and Is-2.
            The tiger leads in one characteristic - rate of fire, but this is leveled by the low speed of rotation of the tower. In all other respects, the Tiger is hopelessly losing.
            1. Shell
              Shell 2 January 2017 17: 30 New
              +1
              Quote: Razvedka_Boem
              Comparative characteristics of the Tiger and Is-2.

              Nevertheless, I recommend replacing the numbers IS-2 with the numbers IL-2. The difference is small, only one letter. But get a "tangible superiority", because the Tiger could not fly.
              Quote: Razvedka_Boem
              In all other respects, the Tiger is hopelessly losing.

              PPC. Do you even understand what a tank is, and what is a tower self-propelled gun?
              In addition, you knowingly distorted. IS-2 went into production in 1944. In the same year, the Pz Kpfw Tiger II tank went into the series. Which did not leave the IS-2 any chance. Yes, and the 75-mm gun Pz.V arr. 1943 also left the IS-2 a little chance.
              1. Razvedka_Boem
                Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 19: 33 New
                +2
                PPC. Do you even understand what a tank is, and what is a tower self-propelled gun?

                You reduce emotions.
                IS-2 is a heavy tank.
                In addition, you knowingly distorted. IS-2 went into production in 1944.

                Yes? And who said:
                But then why compare Pz.V and Pz.VI? There were no analogues in the USSR.

                Also
                In the same year, the Pz Kpfw Tiger II tank went into the series. Which did not leave the IS-2 any chance.

                Oh well..
                You write an article here, with a detailed analysis of all the characteristics and examples of combat use. Read.
                1. Shell
                  Shell 2 January 2017 20: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                  IS-2 is a heavy tank.

                  Really?
                  And where did you see tanks with guns that have separate loading?
                  Did not see? Well, that's just the same.
                  The difference between ISU-122S and IS-2 was only in the rotating tower. At the same time, a rotating tower in itself is not a definite sign of a tank.
                  And they could call IS-2 in the USSR even by plane.
                  In the USSR, it was generally accepted to call things by their own names. For example, the USSR fought as if with fascist Germany and the fascists. Where did they come from, these fascists? Unless in the Italian embassy I would have picked up a dozen or two. In fact, Germany was Nazi. And they fought with the Germans, some of whom were Nazis.
                  Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                  Yes? And who said

                  I told. And I continue to assert this, analogues of Pz.V and Pz.VI were not produced in the USSR.
                  Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                  You write an article here, with a detailed analysis of all the characteristics and examples of combat use.

                  Not even going to.
                  1. Razvedka_Boem
                    Razvedka_Boem 3 January 2017 06: 44 New
                    +2
                    And where did you see tanks with guns that have separate loading?

                    The caliber of the IS gun was 122 mm. A unitary projectile of this caliber would be too heavy, which is why there was separate loading. Then they added a semiautomatic device. However, such unobvious things often pass by the attention of "theorists."
                    The difference between ISU-122S and IS-2 was only in the rotating tower.

                    Hmm .. Even I find it difficult to answer you right away, but you are mistaken.
                    I told. And I continue to assert this, analogues of Pz.V and Pz.VI were not produced in the USSR.

                    Make a mistake further.
                    I believe the main reason for your unwillingness to write an article is that it needs to indicate the sources from where you got your "knowledge". And the fact that the commentators will point out your mistakes.
                  2. Pathos
                    Pathos 4 January 2017 10: 03 New
                    +2
                    Eeee, well, as if we have everything with separate charging tongue
          2. Shell
            Shell 2 January 2017 17: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            BT is a light tank

            I did not understand, but what, the maneuverability of a light tank, is not a weapon anymore?
            Then I will tell you a secret, since 1942. Pz.IV, the main vis-a-vis that appeared in 1944. T-34/85, was considered in the Panzerwaffe light tank. It turns out that the T-34/85, it is something like a German light tank. But the T-34 you call maneuverability a weapon. And the BT tank, no. How shoud I understand this?
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            Do not consider yourself the ultimate truth.

            Well, I will take it in the penultimate.
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            Yeah, someone succeeded, and others then crushed them.

            Mostly in the movies. Because the sector of view from the T-34/76 in the battle was 26 degrees straight ahead. This is with TOD-6. However, due to a shortage, TMFD-7 could also be delivered. And this is 15 degrees straight ahead. And the rest could not tell, there was no radio.
            No, of course you can refer to PT-K. But for its effective use, the commander should have had 2 heads.
            Quote: Razvedka_Boem
            Compare with ISs.

            What are you going to compare with the ISs? Tanks? But nothing that the ISs were tower self-propelled guns? And, for example, do you want to compare IL-2 with the Tiger? And what, with ISa you are comparing with him.
            1. Razvedka_Boem
              Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 19: 39 New
              +2
              T-34/85, was considered in the Panzerwaffe light tank.

              This is a medium tank, their classification is mass. If you suddenly did not know.
              But nothing that the ISs were tower self-propelled guns?

              Once again, this is a heavy tank. However, it is already clear that you are from the category of those who doubt and try to belittle everything Soviet.
              Therefore - if you have something to tell on this site, format it in the form of an article and many people will argue with you in argument.
              1. Shell
                Shell 2 January 2017 20: 20 New
                0
                Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                This is a medium tank, their classification is mass. If you suddenly did not know.

                The Pz.IV was never a Panzerwaffe medium tank. Not a single day.
                Until 1942 it was an infantry escort tank (infantry tank). Since 1942 the new Panzervaffe structure began to operate. Moreover, a complete transition to it was carried out at the end of 1943.
                According to this new structure, Pz.IV from an infantry tank was converted into a light tank (Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.F2 at first).
                The alleged new breakthrough tank was converted into a heavy tank and named Pz.VI.
                The Pz.V index was reserved for the new medium tank, which only appeared in 1943.
                Instead of the infantry tank Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.F1, during the transition period, the infantry tank became the Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. N. Which at the end of 1943 It was finally replaced by the StuG III / IV self-propelled guns (StuK 40).
                In the same transition period, the reconnaissance tank Pz.KpfW.II Ausf was produced. L. However, since 1944 intelligence functions were assigned to the German light tank Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.J.
                It remains to add that in terms of its performance characteristics the T-34/85 could compete with the average Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.J.
                T-34/76 could not compete with any German tank from the new structure. Unless Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.F1 or Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. N.
                Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                you are from the category that doubt and try to belittle everything Soviet

                And why did you decide that the "tower self-propelled gun" is the belittling of the IS-2, and not its praise? Than you so did not please self-propelled guns?
                Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                and a lot of people will argue with you reasonably.

                Reasoned?
                1. svp67
                  svp67 2 January 2017 20: 43 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Shell
                  The Pz.IV was never a Panzerwaffe medium tank. Not a single day.

                  You made this conclusion on the basis of WHAT, you can find out?
                  And somehow you are not consistent, then here you say that he was NOT a medium tank, then suddenly:
                  Quote: Shell
                  It remains to add that in terms of its performance characteristics the T-34/85 could compete with middle Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.J.

                  You already decide ...

                  Quote: Shell
                  Until 1942 it was an infantry escort tank (infantry tank).

                  Very very interesting. And tell me which units were equipped with these "infantry tanks"?
                  1. Shell
                    Shell 2 January 2017 20: 54 New
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    You made this conclusion on the basis of WHAT, you can find out?

                    Based on my knowledge. Which I share with you.
                    Quote: svp67
                    SUDDENLY :
                    Quote: Shell
                    It remains to add that in terms of its performance characteristics the T-34/85 could compete with the average Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.J.

                    You already decide ...

                    I agree, put it wrong. I meant that the Soviet T-34/85 medium tank could compete with the German Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.J. German lung.
                    Quote: svp67
                    And tell me which units were equipped with these "infantry tanks"?

                    Tank mostly. Or do you think there were no panzergrenadiers in the tank units?
                    And the infantry units in 1941. For the same purposes, the StuG III and StuK 37 were used.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 2 January 2017 21: 13 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Shell
                      Based on my knowledge. Which I share with you.

                      KNOWLEDGE-BASED KNOWLEDGE I just know that the Germans for a long time the class of tanks depended on the caliber of weapons and according to this classification the Quartet was generally heavy.
                      Quote: Shell
                      Tank mostly. Or do you think there were no panzergrenadiers in the tank units?

                      Yeah, here you are right for all 100, and therefore it was not when the tank was not an NPP or "infantry" tank, it was a tank for action in a maneuver war.
                      1. Shell
                        Shell 2 January 2017 21: 49 New
                        0
                        Quote: svp67
                        KNOWLEDGE-BASED KNOWLEDGE

                        About 90 percent of the information I just do not remember. And the transfer of the remaining 10% will take all the resources of this site. Therefore, I would rather abstain.
                        Quote: svp67
                        I just know that the Germans for a long time the class of tanks depended on the caliber of weapons and according to this classification the Quartet was generally heavy.

                        You in vain retold to me the nonsense of Runet. I know them all without you.
                        In addition, then I bring to your attention another "heavy tank" Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. N. Everything, as you described, the gun is 75 mm.
                        Quote: svp67
                        and therefore it was not a tank when it was not an NPP or an “infantry” tank, it was a tank for action in a maneuver war.

                        It was an infantry tank designed for fire support of motorized infantry during the breakthrough of enemy defenses. To conduct a maneuvering war with the Germans in 1941. was Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. J.
                2. Razvedka_Boem
                  Razvedka_Boem 3 January 2017 06: 55 New
                  +2
                  The Pz.IV was never a Panzerwaffe medium tank. Not a single day.

                  Indicate the sources.
                  And I talked about the T-34, that it is a medium tank and your juggling about mobility with BT is inappropriate, since BT is a light tank. And again - the classification of tanks goes on a mass basis.
                  And why did you decide that the "tower self-propelled gun" is the belittling of the IS-2, and not its praise? Than you so did not please self-propelled guns?

                  Because it is a heavy tank. It’s you who distort everything and say that the USSR did not have analogues to German heavy tanks. And when I bring as an argument the IS-2 which successfully opposed any "tigers", you start to classify the technique strangely.
                  Here, in VO, there are enough competent readers and you do not need to prove to me that the IS-2 is an SPG. Your mistake is so obvious, as well as your desire to belittle everything Soviet, that further polemic is meaningless.
        2. murriou
          murriou 2 January 2017 16: 13 New
          +4
          Quote: Shell
          The legend of T-34 was made by the Agitation and Propaganda Department of the CPSU Central Committee.

          Yeah, especially its regular employees tried, by a strange coincidence, were at that time in the Wehrmacht in ranks up to the generals laughing

          Quote: Shell
          Do not repeat nonsense after others.

          Whether it’s a business like you, inventing the world's most unique nonsense on your own laughing

          Quote: Shell
          T-34/76 was made completely not for those tasks that he had to solve.

          Yes, even under your last nickname I was delighted with your nonsense about the classification of tanks, including T-34.
          Tell him again from your new hypostasis, can I? No wonder! laughing
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 2 January 2017 23: 50 New
          +3
          As for the T-34-85 I can not agree. He became quite average tank after
          installing 3 local towers, replacing a terrible gearbox and filters.
          But even the T-34-76 with its 2nd working speed, if it had been slightly redone, could be much more useful for supporting infantry. SS sheep from the Reich division used the peat T-34-76.
          They changed and improved the laying of shells so that they would not detonate when they hit the hull,
          added their commander’s cupola, their walkie-talkie ... And they said that with their high-explosive shells they really helped the infantry advance.
          1. Shell
            Shell 3 January 2017 01: 21 New
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            He became quite average tank after
            installing 3 local towers, replacing a terrible gearbox and filters.

            Of course, after these alterations, the tank became better.
            But the suspension springs remained unchanged with their buildup on the go, expensive and low-tech housing, expensive engine, poor armor, etc. etc.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            But even the T-34-76 with its 2nd working speed, if it had been slightly redone, could be much more useful for supporting infantry.

            Actually, for this they did it. Initially, the T-34/76, is a tank of direct infantry support. Or, in short, an infantry tank. And in the T-34/76 variant, like an infantry tank, it was completely nothing. But the trouble was that they used it mainly as a medium tank. But for this, he was not fit at all.
            T-34/85 is already good. But a bunch of "features of the ingenious design" did not allow him to be a good medium tank. Do not forget, it was the next, 501th alteration of the design of the initially "operational" (cavalry, cruising, etc.) tank. So where does this special “goodness” come from?
            Quote: voyaka uh
            SS sheep from the Reich division used the peat T-34-76.

            If together with Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. N and Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.F1 (and earlier), it is entirely justified. These tanks and T-34/76 were classmates, i.e. infantry tanks. The Germans produced infantry tanks until the end of 1943, and were used even longer. But as a result, they were still replaced by StuG III / IV self-propelled guns with StuK 40.
            SPG StuG III / IV with StuK 40 to support the infantry were better than German and Soviet infantry tanks. Literally in almost all respects. And of course, the Soviet self-propelled artillery support support, SU-76, did not compare with all of them. Just hell knows what was released in the USSR.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 3 January 2017 01: 34 New
              +3
              Quote: Shell
              Just hell knows what was released in the USSR.

              Yeah. I remember my grandfather climbed into the bathroom, and then got out and grit: oh, @ your mother, fuck you, I washed for 3 rubles. laughing
            2. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 3 January 2017 13: 06 New
              +1
              "If together with Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. N and Pz.KpfW.IV Ausf.F1 (and earlier), then it is completely justified" ////

              There simply was a period (in 1942) when the Waffen-SS was left without tanks. They had a “fight” for new tanks between the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS. For some reason, the SS-sheep (infantry divisions) were "punished" by the supply (or Hitler?). They said, like: "get tanks (and sau) wherever you want."
              And they set up repairs in Kharkov T-34 and plus began to sculpt all kinds of wild Marders
              3 meters high from all captured trophy. And with this farm "Reich" got to the Battle of Kursk ...
              In it, the T-34 also helped them because Soviet soldiers mistook the "disguised" for their own and let them close.
        4. Andrey NM
          Andrey NM 6 January 2017 23: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Shell
          The legend of T-34 was made by the Agitation and Propaganda Department of the CPSU Central Committee.

          What fables did not give Goebbels Propaganda Ministry. Yes, they are still trying to feed us these slops. Someone is underway.
          Well, then the question is, and "Panther" what type is it? She has almost the same mass with IS-2. But here is the problem. The 88mm German gun punched the forehead of the IS-2 of the first modifications from 500-600 meters, but the IS-2 with a straight nose did not even take it straight ... Panther was heavier, it had a 75mm gun. In this case, the IS-2 pierced the forehead of the Tiger and Panther already at almost 2 km distance. To reduce the distance from 2000m to 1000m, the tiger will need 3 minutes (for the IS-2, 8-9 shots). The tiger must also shoot, but for this, too, you need to stop, so that time will increase. Well, this is all ideal, and ideal conditions do not exist, therefore, at unexpected meetings “from around the corner” everything depended on the skill of the crews and many other conditions. In addition, since 1943 the Germans only did what they were defending. Something tells me that the attackers suffer losses slightly more than the defenders.
  20. faiver
    faiver 31 December 2016 01: 55 New
    +3
    All the coming, the author apparently has long begun to celebrate the new year, I'm sorry but frank crap is written,
    pearl after pearl, I especially liked the lonely hull 122mm gun right on the front line ....
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 12: 20 New
      +1
      The author mentions that all the events described took place in reality, but only in different time intervals. He simply gathered them together.
  21. Svarog51
    Svarog51 31 December 2016 05: 58 New
    14
    Dear Vyacheslav! Happy New Year to you! Pretty amused by the "script", I do not want to reproach you in any way, because I understand that you are not a filmmaker and honestly warned about it. I am also not a tanker, not a film critic or a historian. Everything about tanks is my old hobby. But I’ll try with a layman’s gaze to sort out the film clips in your scenario. It is the fall of 1943, the Battle of Kursk has just passed away. A huge number of tanks are lost on both sides. Repair units and tank factories are "overwhelmed" with work. The Germans are a very strong opponent and far from stupid. Just got rich experience in the use of the Tigers in combat conditions. Not everyone, even an experienced tanker, could become the commander of a Tiger, and even more so the commander of a unit in the Heavy Tank Battalion. Everything can happen in a war - and a sudden raid of aircraft and shelling and a breakthrough of the enemy. The commander of such a tank unit must be ready for anything. Again, an elite tank unit, capable of breaking through the enemy’s defenses or becoming the core of its defense, is supplied and guarded by no means in the same way as conventional troops. The protection of such a unit at the unloading station, on the march and rest is carried by the grenadiers attached to them. The policemen will not be allowed to come close to them. The grenadiers accompanying the tankers move, as you wrote, on the “251” armored personnel carriers. They conduct reconnaissance of the route, provide cover and security. In the troops of the Wehrmacht and the SS, tank commanders, as more experienced, had priority in battle and, as a rule, they were given infantry, and not vice versa. In addition to the Tigers, the units also necessarily included lighter cars, as well as repair parts with FAMO tractors. They are present in one of the photographs, for a Tiger to be towed along a good road and an undisturbed chassis, they need at least two. In any other case, there are already three. To pull the Tiger out of the mud, and even under enemy fire - this could be done only by another Tiger, but with a high degree of probability to stay next to the wrecked fellow. Using non-armored tractors is suicide, plus leaving the entire unit without tow trucks. "251" armored personnel carriers can only cover the evacuation, they could not participate as tractors - "the forces are not the same." Huge difficulties with tracks, rollers, transmission - you correctly described it. To pull out the gearbox, it was required to remove the tower. Autumn is not a predictable time of the year, but in one night the road is unlikely to freeze to withstand 56 tons of the Tiger, so it will not “accelerate” on the march. Trying to “slip” a suspicious bridge on the Tiger is a fantasy. Even in a "calm" environment, on a lighter and faster T-34, this will lead to more disastrous results. But you need to transport the entire unit, and not just one tank. Not a single German commander would take such an adventure because he would be asked for non-combat losses with the death of his subordinates and entrusted equipment. Let me remind you - this, according to the script, is 1943. The tanks are new, it is very difficult to fight the enemy with them. They are cherished like the apple of an eye for military operations, so lostlessly lose them during the preparation of the offensive. You can believe this when retreating, when you have to "scoop up all the blades" so as not to get into the environment and all parts of the support were lost in previous battles. But this is a "different story", as with our HF in the 41st and the German "Beasts" in the 45th.
    That's something like that, in my opinion. Sincerely. hi
    1. Svarog51
      Svarog51 31 December 2016 06: 14 New
      13
      R.S. I forgot to add about the battle with the T-34. Described by you is fairly reliable. Such tactics were used by our tankmen and allies. This is clearly reflected in the American film "Rage" and narrated in documentary films. But the Germans also knew about this method of "flirting." I read (I forgot where specifically) that Wittmann was very protective of his gunner and driver. The first very accurately and quickly guided the tank gun, and the second skillfully compensated for the low speed of rotation of the tower by turning the entire tank. However, this did not save them. The victory was ours.
    2. kalibr
      31 December 2016 12: 23 New
      +5
      That's why I almost wrote a script, because here all the facts known to me about the actions of the “tigers” in various places, well, maybe not bokazha’s, are gathered here. And they took place often and rare ... And something fictitious is written on this, the purpose of which was to create a certain impression. In a movie with consultants at the general level, we also see something wrong, right? And nothing! Remove, and high ranks "consult". What do they know less than mine? Or is there something else ... So I do not argue with your comments, but in this case "the artist sees so." I would have shot 28 Panfilov’s differently ...

      Happy New Year to you too!
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 31 December 2016 13: 06 New
        13
        I understood your idea, therefore I called my comment - analysis of kinolapov Not a professional. Specialists can add many more comments, but your script is not written for a documentary. In the credits, usually the consultant-general is followed by the consultant-lieutenant colonel and that’s all, but in fact it will be the lieutenant, who was seconded to the shooting. He is unlikely to argue with the director and prove "that this cannot be." I really liked the 28 Panfilov’s. Although there is a discrepancy with real events, but PEOPLE who are ready to die but not back down are very well shown. But they do not want to die, but they want to destroy the enemy. The real combat work of good soldiers, besides not plywood fakes, but real German tanks, albeit "computer graphics". There will certainly be controversy surrounding the film, but I think most of the audience will approve of this work. I also have a dream, but more modest than making a film. This is due to the lesser known, but no less heroic feat of Zinoviy Kolobanov and his company.
      2. Andrey Zh
        Andrey Zh 31 December 2016 13: 08 New
        +1
        Holiday greetings !
        By the way, "28 Panfilov" would have shot differently! So, I agree with you.
    3. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 11 January 2017 09: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Svarog51
      Pretty amused by the "script"


      I agree.
      So many non-combat losses of losses of the Tigers - a tribunal for the commander.
      Could lose by the piece and then, if it was not possible to evacuate.
      But to lose most of the tigers before the attack is ridiculous speculation. Worse only the scenario "White Tiger" performed by Bekmambetov ...
      Far from every sector of the front, there were fire weapons that could hit the Tiger. Even the 4 Tigers - represented a serious strike force, or the basis of defense.
  22. DesToeR
    DesToeR 31 December 2016 09: 25 New
    +5
    Quote: Stas57
    what is believable, the Tigers and Prague in one attack or the Jumping bridge on an almost 60 ton machine?

    And what is implausible? One company (judging by the number of tanks in the description) of the heavy tank battalion was ordered to support the “linear” tank unit to counter-strike. It’s a very real situation in the war, when the Germans “crushed” the TTB in the company (in the Kursk, for example, it was). The heavy tank battalions of the Germans were not a self-sufficient part, at least there was no artillery in their composition. About the bridge, of course, far-fetched, but there is logic. It was enough to cross to the other side with one car and then with the help of a cable help the other tanks of the company to overcome the ford river. It was this method of forcing that Otto Carius used to force the rivulet in the famous episode, where his Tigers squad shot about three dozen T-34s on the march in the convoy. Well, one should not forget about the age of the tankers, they could well take a chance in their youth.
    Quote: Stas57
    alas, in life the T34 gun did not hit the tiger on board already with 200 m

    Yes, it did not hit. But there is a fact when the Tiger had enough to get into the mask of the gun (the thickest part of the armor) of only one shell from the 76mm division, so that the 88mm gun was damaged. The second such projectile in a mask completely disabled a tiger gun. And under the side armor, it could well mean the lower armor plate, not 82 mm thick, but 60 mm thick, which, when fired with a caliber projectile, could have been pierced from 400m.

    Quote: Stas57
    and we are still surprised, and most importantly, no one pulled the author, everyone applauds, applauds ..... ashamed

    And why pull the author? With his article, he showed the main rule of the Eastern Front: no matter how perfect the weapon, it should, first of all, have reached the battlefield. With this, the Tiger was basically all bad. The percentage of non-combat losses was very high. Like the percentage of combat-ready tanks in the unit, after several days of use at the front, it was lower than in the parts armed with T-3 and T-4 tanks. The main problem is the breakdowns in the chassis that cannot be repaired by regular repair crews.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 06: 30 New
        +1
        for me shitty showed.

        Easy cornering. Write a response article (we will criticize), but you should not be rude.
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 2 January 2017 10: 59 New
          +1
          shitty showed is it rudeness?
          Wow Wow. since when
  23. kalibr
    31 December 2016 12: 31 New
    +5
    Quote: Pretorius
    The author needs to read the recollections of the surviving tankers and allies.


    Since 1980, I have been reading and reading about tanks ... Both in Russian and in English ... And this is the opinion ...
  24. DesToeR
    DesToeR 31 December 2016 20: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: Stas57
    Well, tell me which linear part in the attack in autumn 43 used Prague?

    I will assume that it is either 8 or 20 TD. On July 1, 1943 in the Wehrmacht, there were 204 combat-ready tanks Pz.38 (t). As of October 1944 (this month the statistics for Pz.38 (t) ends in the Wehrmacht there were another 229 of these combat vehicles.
    Quote: Stas57
    there is no logic, neither ours nor the Germans were idiots to do this.

    Well, yes, of course ... Boys aged 18 to 23 years are always so reasonable and logical that they have what we have. Just something along the rivers and in the lakes, basically whole tanks are found.
    Quote: Stas57
    all the more so because the tigers quite arrived, having Famo in their backup, sabbats, etc., etc.

    Well, yes, I already saw something similar as an argument from another tank expert, with a nickname like Karls. The author does not argue that the Tigers arrived. The author showed how this happened. For me it’s so believable.
    Quote: Stas57
    do not make an idiot out of war.

    Do not make yourself an idol. And people like you have been trying to sculpt it for a quarter of a century from the Panzervaffe. Why create an idol from a defeated enemy? It can be respected, but at least silly to admire it - there is a more worthy object. The author honestly wrote in the article that this is a scenario of a possible film, that all events, although they have real prototypes, are fictitious. Don't you like the script? So I didn’t stop laughing at half an hour from the movie "Rage".
  25. Peter Babik
    Peter Babik 1 January 2017 23: 19 New
    0
    Yes, yes, these "famous tanks" were destroyed. and they were also destroyed from ambushes. blown up on mines. that is, in the first place they tried to destroy them. and then everything else
  26. Bat
    Bat 2 January 2017 00: 13 New
    +2
    Well written.
  27. Dekabrist
    Dekabrist 2 January 2017 16: 10 New
    0
    Razvedka_Boem,
    I.e?
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 2 January 2017 16: 24 New
      +2
      Razvedka_Boem 2 Today, 15:44 ↑
      Scouting, are you an enthusiast?

      Sometimes it happens. In general, I am an optimist.
      Razvedka_Boem

      0
      Dekabrist Today, 15:58 ↑
      How do you feel about hiking?

      Veiled rudeness, rudeness and remains. When the polemic becomes personal, the dialogue is pointless to continue.
  28. svp67
    svp67 2 January 2017 22: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: Shell
    It was an infantry tank designed for fire support of motorized infantry during the breakthrough of enemy defenses. To conduct a maneuvering war with the Germans in 1941. was Pz.KpfW.III Ausf. J.

    Honestly, where did you get this confidence that the “troika” was “cruising”, and I would not understand the “four” “infantry”. They were generally originally planned to be used TOGETHER as part of tank battalions.
    Heinz Guderian took part in the development of the concept. It was planned that at the level of the battalion one such machine should be for every three Panzer III. Unlike the T-3, equipped with a standard version of the standard 37 mm Pak 36 gun with good anti-tank characteristics, the short barrel of the Panzer IV howitzer could be used against all types of fortifications, block houses, pillboxes, anti-tank guns and artillery positions.
    1. Shell
      Shell 2 January 2017 23: 17 New
      0
      Quote: svp67
      Honestly, where did you get this confidence that the “troika” was “cruising”, and I would not understand the “four” “infantry”.

      And what is there to guess? These are typical representatives of these classes.
      Quote: svp67
      They were generally originally planned to be used TOGETHER as part of tank battalions.

      May be. Only some were supposed to break into the enemy’s defenses, while others had to develop success. It's like aviation SAPs.
      Although, in fact, maybe everything was planned and not so. Concepts periodically changed. So since 1942. the Germans changed their concept. And for 2 years they completely adjusted their armored weapons for it.
      By the way, it should be noted that this technique was traditionally very good among the Germans. The Soviet level was not just lower, but generally at the baseboard level. The maximum for Soviet industry was the T-34/85, which, with a sin in half, could still somehow compete with the German light tank Pz.IV. But this tank (with a more or less normal S-53 gun) appeared only by the summer of 1944. Although films about the war were teeming with them, they still mostly fought on the little-suitable T-34/76. Infantry tank in the role of medium, it was tin, because the losses were colossal.
      Quote: svp67
      Heinz Guderian took part in the development of the concept. It was planned that at the level of the battalion one such machine should be for every three Panzer III.

      No no. This is not necessary. This can easily be both true and fiction. I usually don’t even read such things.
  29. DesToeR
    DesToeR 3 January 2017 23: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: Shell
    And what is there to guess? These are typical representatives of these classes.

    Amazing peremptory! But nothing that the Germans have the role of the so-called. "infantry" tanks performed a completely different class of vehicles? Not tanks at all.
    Quote: Shell
    By the way, it should be noted that this technique was traditionally very good among the Germans. The Soviet level was not just lower, but generally at the baseboard level.

    Yes Yes. She was very good, especially in 1941. Especially BTT.

    Quote: Shell
    The maximum for Soviet industry was the T-34/85, which, with a sin in half, could still somehow compete with the German light tank Pz.IV.

    Oh, these "Horde" with a "servile" copying of the advanced achievements of the "civilized" West ... But what about such machines as the SU-85, SU-100, IS, IS-2? How to erase from memory the German horror of 1941. represented by KV tanks? This is what the crews of all German and Czech tanks in 1941 did without exception. when meeting with the "primitive" T-34-76? Unless, of course, this meeting took place not in the greenhouse conditions for the Nazis.
    1. kalibr
      4 January 2017 08: 30 New
      0
      But we really destroyed more tanks from the Germans than we ourselves lost only in 1944. And before that, having the advantage in tanks lost more ... And the funny thing is that it is easily calculated (relatively easy, of course!) According to official data of the Sovinformburo. You write it out every day, add it up - we / they and ... come out.
  30. DesToeR
    DesToeR 4 January 2017 11: 26 New
    +4
    Quote: kalibr
    But we really destroyed more tanks from the Germans than we ourselves lost only in 1944. And before that, having the advantage in tanks, they lost more ...

    But how to understand "only"? It was necessary immediately in 1941, so to speak, without regaining consciousness? Here is a nation over which "the sun never set" without the help of the Americans, would still "drive" one single corps of Romel through the deserts. Moreover, having a three-fold advantage in tanks and aircraft, it’s a shame to remember the supply. And what do you think they sprinkle ashes on their heads?
    1. kalibr
      4 January 2017 11: 53 New
      +2
      And here is strewing the head with ashes? What am I calling for this? But it’s strange - how to praise - so our T-34 and KV are "the best in the world", how to scold - "the Americans and the British were also bad." Where is the logic? Judging by the previous comments, was everything all right with her? And then it suddenly went like this: with a neighbor, g ... but on the site, so I can with ... on the stairs? Everyone had problems in the war, some had more, others had less. The important thing is not how much they have, and why we had such losses, with such tanks. In theory, only the T-34 and KV should have been enough to completely destroy the invading German tanks.
      1. murriou
        murriou 4 January 2017 14: 37 New
        +1
        Share your "theories" in more detail, can I?
        Do not forget to indicate the sources of their origin too lol

        Here I am familiar, unlike you, with the theories according to which the tanks themselves are not operational without support much more, and the facts that before the WWII and at the beginning of WWII, the Germans increased the combat effectiveness of their TDs, while the number of tanks in them was REDUCED.

        I am also familiar with the theories that for the combat use of technology, including tanks, mastery of the armament by the troops is important for competent use, and industry, for debugging the structure.
        I know that the period of such development normally took 3-4 years for the WWII period.
        I am also familiar with the facts that in the USSR the period of such development was reduced, but not so much as to put it in one incomplete year.

        What about you? laughing
        1. kalibr
          5 January 2017 08: 40 New
          0
          And I have "there" the publication of the Tankomaster magazine from 1991 to 2007 throughout the country, three books on the history of BTT, work in the editorial board of the journal "Technique and Armament", and a lot of articles on this subject here and elsewhere, from England to Japan. Probably, well, purely by chance, I came across books on these topics. And what you are just familiar with is an object of direct competence for me. And by the way, in your comment, you wrote everything correctly and yourself answered your own question. So why should I repeat myself? But you did not answer my questions. This is not a polemic. First a question, then an answer. But no, the question is the question. You, that at the university did not teach logic with cultural studies?
          1. murriou
            murriou 5 January 2017 09: 39 New
            +1
            1. Regalia is, of course, cool.
            But you kind of wrote about certain theories, according to which only T-34 and KV should have been enough to defeat Hitler already in 1941, and I still want to see these theories lol

            2. Your "questions" like "Where is the logic?" or "And here is a sprinkling of head on ashes?" (your spelling) by me, only rhetorical ones were not perceived, and even now they are not perceived.
            Ask a specific question - and I will try to give you the SAME concrete answer, Nask. it is in my power.
            It's about logic and culturology, yeah lol

            3. Books and articles are different.

            In TM magazine, in early childhood, I read articles by Shmelev, Baryatinsky and other similar authors in historical series, I began to get acquainted with BTT in them, and in other similar series, with naval history, aviation, etc.

            When he grew up a little, he began to understand something - he discovered that a lot that seemed to be holy truths in childhood turned out to be full of illiteracy and fraud. Both Pikul’s novels and the historical TM series are largely composed of such blunders.

            It also turned out that many of the authors, including Shmelev and Baryatinsky, sharply "rebuilt" and began just as vigorously engaged in fraud in exactly the opposite direction.

            And although I am an amateur, not claiming anything, but even this is noticeable to me, and causes a lot of nastiness in relation to such weathercocks, albeit with a long list of publications and regalia.

            So, even if your personal list of services and publications is comparable to similar long lengths lol the authors whom I have named are not the fact that from this I should have more respect for you than for them repeat
            1. kalibr
              5 January 2017 12: 31 New
              0
              Nobody talks about reverence (different from your spelling, huh ?!) and says, but when you work in a certain field regularly for many years, you gain some knowledge, don't you? More than when you’re just curious. But the allegations of fraud ... are a little ridiculous. What are the frauds in tanks? Here is the TTX, here is the archive ... here is the photo, here is Bovington, here is Kubinka - everything is in front of you. Books - take - compare, write to the archive ... everything is verifiable. That’s how we work, and that’s why we are being printed both here and abroad. To make falsifications to Baryatinsky or Kolomiyets ... what's the point? Money doesn’t pay for it ...
              And as for theories, it’s like that. Even in the books of the Kirov plant "J. Y. Kotin" and "Without Secrets and Secrets" it was calculated that one T-34 was equal to 8 German "three-ruble notes and fours", and one KV - 10. KV was 508. That's the whole calculation . The main then was the designer Popov, books under his editorship.
              1. murriou
                murriou 5 January 2017 12: 48 New
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                That’s the whole count.

                What indicators is such equality?

                If the cost, then, taking into account the figures for the production of tanks in the USSR and the Reich, it turns out that the Soviet economy during the Second World War was more powerful than the German once in about 25-30.
                You gave a very, very generous compliment to Stalin laughing

                Quote: kalibr
                Do byddAsovka Baryatinsky or Kolomiyetsu ... what's the point?

                * shrug * and you ask me about this? Ask them.

                The fact is that at the end of the 70s some popular authors everywhere wrote how good Soviet tanks were and what shit all the others were against them, and worse than all the American ones.

                After rebuilding, these same authors wrote that the Soviet tanks were shit, but the American tanks did, and in general the Great Patriotic War won only by a land-lease.

                Find 12 differences as they say laughing
                1. kalibr
                  7 January 2017 21: 45 New
                  0
                  Never met such stupid moments
                  Quote: murriou
                  After rebuilding, these same authors wrote that the Soviet tanks were shit, but the American tanks did, and in general the Great Patriotic War won only by a land-lease.

                  This is sweeping oohai. I only deal with the fact that since 1980 I read "about tanks" and ours and "them." And I did not observe such banks, although in the USSR it was impossible to write about Lend-Lease. No need to ascribe extremes to people.
                  And about the count - I did not ask Popov about this. "The big giraffe - he knows better!" This is the chief designer of Kirovsky! The fact that I was then invited to edit a book by him and introduced to my archive and that was ... happiness!
                  1. murriou
                    murriou 8 January 2017 00: 01 New
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    in the USSR it was impossible to write about Lend-Lease.

                    You're lying again.
                    There will be a lot of capslots that I'm too lazy to process - I copied directly from the headers and text, as it is there:
                    TM, HISTORICAL GUIDE
                    OUR TANK MUSEUM
                    The tank museum on our site begins with the publication of materials that first saw the light in the distant 70s. The author of the articles is engineer Igor SHMELEV. The artist is Mikhail PETROVSKY.
                    Edited by: Major General Engineer, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Leonid SERGEEV.
                    .
                    Issue 18. LAST INFANTRY TANKS
                    .
                    During the release (until August 1943), 2987 pieces of Matilda-II were built. In the same period, MkIIA was delivered under Lend-Lease to our country.
                    .
                    "Valentines" of all modifications, except the first, were also delivered to our country.
                    .
                    Churchilli I, II and III were also used by the Red Army
                    .
                    Issue 28. SHERMAN AND OTHERS
                    .
                    During the Second World War, "Shermans" were delivered to England (more than 5000 pcs., Not counting RAM), the USSR (M4A2, M4A4), France.

                    Yes, one-sided coverage of Lend-Lease equipment was adopted, and I wrote about this. But do not lie, as if this was not at all.
  31. DesToeR
    DesToeR 4 January 2017 18: 29 New
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    And here is strewing the head with ashes?

    I asked you for "only".

    Quote: kalibr
    The important thing is not how much they have, and why we had such losses, with such tanks.

    The suddenness of the attack, the loss and evacuation of thousands of defense enterprises, the loss of a huge number of pre-war reserves. High intensity fights. It is difficult to estimate losses in such a situation since there is no similar example in the world. The United States did not lose anything except a few ships and a broken naval base after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. But there is a counterexample with the French in 1940 with 5 million fully mobilized. army, and for about a year consisting in a state of war with the Reich. So for "only" it would be necessary to answer ...
  32. Sergey Loskutov
    Sergey Loskutov 5 January 2017 23: 17 New
    +1
    In Soviet films about the war, special attention was paid not to the authenticity of military equipment and, if not to the least important details. Unlike modern "masterpieces", the spirit of the Soviet soldiers, mass heroism and (within reasonable limits) the horror of the enemy invasion were transmitted.
    1. kalibr
      7 January 2017 21: 46 New
      0
      And from that they lost a lot, by the way!
  33. magician
    magician 9 January 2017 22: 09 New
    0
    Interesting! continue to wait. ))) only in the battle not the cars, but the crews win.
  34. Wasiliy1985
    Wasiliy1985 21 January 2017 19: 44 New
    +1
    Personally close to me is the film "They Fought for the Motherland!" In everything. Both pathos minimum and heroism are shown genuinely and severely, and the life of the trench is also quite imagined as in life. And the collective of actors and their game (or even "life") in the frame is beyond criticism and comments .. Especially with their biography! Nikulin alone is worth something: he didn’t play - he told !!
  35. Wasiliy1985
    Wasiliy1985 21 January 2017 19: 47 New
    0
    Personally close to me is the film "They Fought for the Motherland!" In everything. Both pathos minimum and heroism are shown genuinely and severely, and the life of the trench is also quite imagined as in life. And the collective of actors and their game (or even "life") in the frame is beyond criticism and comments .. Especially with their biography! Nikulin alone is worth something: he didn’t play - he told !!
    And most importantly - there is a clear idea of ​​the film (voiced in the title) and it is clearly reflected on the screen!
  36. Boris Borisovich Skrynnik
    Boris Borisovich Skrynnik April 14 2017 11: 48 New
    +4
    Thank you for the article . But there is a question - why there is no photo from Bullfinches on the Volokolamsk highway where the Tiger also stands?