Military Review

About the terrible Soviet special forces

110
Many familiar and unfamiliar readers of our publication ask to tell about the famous Soviet special forces. On those groups that performed combat missions, in complexity worthy of regiments or even divisions. People read Western publications. Send links to some materials. Required to give reliable information on one or another issue related to special forces in general or with individual operations in particular.


Yes, there were divisions in the GRU system whose activities were strictly classified. And they performed tasks almost anywhere in the world. Specific tasks, which sometimes knew only the first person. The officers of such units even in the family had no right to talk about the place and the specifics of the service. And the disclosure of any information about the operation entailed criminal liability. Even the names.

About the terrible Soviet special forces


With the collapse of the USSR, a stream of our former compatriots poured over the borders of the country. Among them were former military personnel. Not to mention the multitude of journalists and other creative people who considered themselves to be experts in the military secrets of the Soviet Army. It was the symbiosis of these two categories of emigrants that gave birth to the product that you can read today. And the need to quickly receive royalties, the need of the western man in the street for "hot the news"from the" evil empire ", and the order of some state structures to create the image of the enemy, gave rise to a lot of pseudo-history materials, including about the special forces of the Soviet Army.

We will take the liberty (not without reason, however) to speak on this topic. Moreover, such materials have recently begun to appear that it is just that conscience does not allow keeping silence. From stuffing data on the NKVD from the "Memorial" to the pseudo-historical brew of Mr. Steinberg about the Soviet Special Forces.

Let's start with Mr. Steinberg and his opus "Soviet Special Forces: Ups and Tragedies"


"... the Soviet special forces in the first period of the war seemed to be inactive, but in fact by that time it practically did not exist. Part of the army saboteurs was shot, some died in Siberia. The measures planned for the German invasion were not fulfilled, the selection and no training of people for sabotage and reconnaissance actions was conducted; weapons and ammunition was not laid, the radio was not organized. As mentioned in the first essay, everything that was created before the Stalinist repressions was almost completely destroyed by the NKVD. "

The fact that for Mr. Steinberg the special forces are continuous scouts, saboteurs, simply omit, so as not to stoop to his level. But just give some numbers and mention a few documents.

Directive of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) "To Party and Soviet Organizations of Front-line Areas" dated 29 June 1941, No. 624. Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) of 18 July 1941, "On the organization of the struggle in the rear of the German troops." The Order of the Non-Profit Organization of the USSR I.V. Stalin from September 5 of 1942 No. 00189 “On the tasks of the partisan movement”.

Thanks to precisely precise and timely, although perhaps somewhat late reaction, the result was more than 6 000 guerrilla units, numbering about 1 a million people operating in 1941 — 1944 in the occupied territory of the USSR.

Having, we note, a connection with the mainland, supply, removal of seriously wounded.

We think that it’s not worth proving that these units acted successfully.

Judging by Steinberg, it turns out that this million people just conjured up. Trained, armed, and so on. Undoubtedly, many guerrilla groups were supplied from the battlefield in terms of weapons and ammunition. But not in such quantities, obviously. The Wehrmacht and the gendarmerie, of course, were forced to share their reserves with the partisans, but this was definitely not the primary tasks of the Germans.

Well, Steinberg’s conclusion about the actions of the Soviet special forces is simply a masterpiece:

"... due to the lack of trained commanders, hasty preparation (from three to ten days), poor selection of personnel, poor material and technical support, the vast majority of reconnaissance and sabotage groups did not fulfill their tasks, suffered large unjustified losses. The survivors in this period after one or two sabotage were forced to continue to engage only in their own survival. "

We will not comment. What can I say against it? To argue about the actions of the guerrilla units of the NKVD? Omsbon? Brigade Kovpaka? Squad "Mitya" (reconnaissance and sabotage residency number 4 / 70 Special Forces troops under the NKVD of the USSR) under the command of D. N. Medvedev? Group Nikolai Kuznetsov?

It is clear to the ottolerantnnomu man that there was nothing of this. And there were thousands of unprepared people, thrown in bundles to the rear of the enemy and there are dying without result.

Allowing myself to remind readers of the real fact of the activities of the German "Abwehr". For the operation, several groups were prepared at once (in some cases the score went to dozens). And really, the operation should have been carried out only by one. The rest were cast to create a "smoke screen". NKVD, employees of special departments and SMERSH caught them in hundreds. And they were forced to work out false information. By the way, these “saboteurs for dust” were later put on a par with truly innocent victims.

That's the other side. Counterintelligence and the fight against enemy saboteurs. For such a struggle, the militia and the police, as it were, did not fit. Another well-trained commando can best neutralize a well-trained special forces soldier.

Actually, SMERSH


Only the lazy of the camp of our enemies over the past 25 years has not tried to throw mud at this abbreviation. Meanwhile, it was the fighters of these structures (in the plural, because there were three SMERSH) that rather successfully neutralized all the activities of the Abwehr.

In SMERSH really took very well-trained fighters. With special pleasure - border guards and intelligence officers. That is, those who are perfectly aware of the essence of the actions of the enemy. So, could make a neutralization with the greatest efficiency.

In principle, no one has yet talked better than Vladimir Bogomolov about counterintelligence work. And, apparently, no longer tell. Not those times in the yard.

It was the counterintelligence officers who had to take upon themselves the hard work of catching and eliminating the saboteurs and spies whom the Abwehr was throwing on our side. And what can I say, SMERSH coped with this task.

But Mr. Steinberg always remembers the first task. On the creation of the terrible image of Russian special forces. And the outcome of the war itself must somehow be substantiated. Who in their right mind would believe in the victory of the weak over the strong?

"... By the end of 1943, the Central Commandos and Intelligence Courses opened at the base of the Higher School of the General Staff of the Red Army. They trained specialists of the army special forces. But here they were primarily interested in quantity and not quality, releasing 500 people every four months. The same courses were created In addition, the Central School functioned in Moscow, which trained the commanders of special forces groups and troops. So by the end of 1944, the number of reconnaissance-spies in the Red Army was at least 5-7 thousand. Yermansky Wehrmacht had only one commando regiment of "Brandenburg", numbering about two thousand soldiers and officers, successfully enough to cope with the numerous challenges on different fronts in Europe. "

Oh, what a familiar song about the small number of Germans and how we all “filled up the corpses”!

It is a pity that Mr. Steinberg did not strain himself by studying (at least superficially) on such an organization as the “Headquarters“ Valli ”.

The operational headquarters of the Abwehr, codenamed Wally, was created at the initiative of Canaris outside Warsaw in 1941. He was headed by one of the admiral's assistants, Colonel Heinz Schmalshleger.

"Valley", similar to the management of the Abwehr abroad, had three divisions: the first - intelligence, the second - sabotage and terror, the third - counterintelligence. The Valli was entrusted with the direct leadership of the Abwehr’s field agencies: the Abwehr commands for the North, Center and South forces and the Abwehr groups for the invading armies.

At the same headquarters, the well-known Warsaw Intelligence School was created, where personnel were trained to transfer to the Soviet rear.

With each group of the Wehrmacht armies, the "Valley" headquarters had two Abwehr commands, subordinate to each of the departments and bearing the corresponding numbering. Directly at the headquarters of the field and tank armies, each of the mentioned Abwehrkommandos had their own Abwehrgroups, numbering from 3 to 6.

Given that the permanent composition of one abvercom team was from 30 to 80 people, the Abwehr group numbered from 15 to 25 people, plus seconded and agents ...

In the 1942 year, in connection with the active actions of the partisans in the rear, a special counter-intelligence unit, “Sondershtab-P” (“Russia”), was created at the Valli headquarters. This institution was preparing provocateurs for the anti-fascist underground and agents for the introduction of partisans into the units.

And Mr. Steinberg is crying about the unfortunate two thousand from “Brandenburg-800” ...

We were too modest and did not remind of the German paratroopers who belonged to the structure of the Luftwaffe, but were used in reconnaissance and sabotage activities everywhere, from Belgium and Crete to the Rostov and Donetsk regions. And about the nationalist battalions.

It was on the territory of the Rostov and Donetsk regions that one of the battles between SMERSH and German specialists took place, unfortunately, which has not yet gained fame. This is the so-called "war for the wells." But we will definitely return to this episode.

If we sum up some intermediate result (namely, an intermediate one, because the continuation will follow), then we can say quite confidently: it was by 1943 that the Soviet special forces acquired the form that allowed the German colleagues to win, in all areas, starting from intelligence and sabotage activities in the rear of the enemy and ending with the capture and destruction of the enemy's agents on their territory.

Proved by the "Abwehr", OUN-UPA, "Army Krajowa", "Green Brothers" and other formations and organizations.

The fact that the Red Army and the NKVD were able to organize the preparation and training of intelligence officers and counterintelligence, quantitatively and qualitatively superior opponents, this does not confirm the thesis of the "collapse of the corpses." This is evidence that the Supreme Command Headquarters was well aware of the need for clear work of intelligence and counterintelligence agencies.

And these bodies and structures worked, and worked effectively. Otherwise, the result of the war would be different.

The article was posted on the website 2016-12-16
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  1. V.ic
    V.ic 16 December 2016 06: 46
    +8
    If there is no continuation, then the article = just the usual "zavlekalovo". However, it is written (I hope to continue) very vividly ...
    1. Vend
      Vend 16 December 2016 10: 26
      13
      Article +, but here "tomatoes and oranges" are mixed. Partisans and special forces are two different concepts. Partisan detachments were created in the occupied territory by members of district committees, city committees, party members, etc. As such, there really was no special forces. But there were many necessary and high-quality groundwork. For example, developments in hand-to-hand combat, sniper schools ... this then took shape in the special forces tat, which we now know. After the civil war, there were such units of CHON - units of special purpose. Units of special purpose "(CHON), otherwise -" communist squads "," military-party detachments "- were created on the basis of the decree of the Central Committee of the RCP (b) of April 17, 1919. and were the fighting forces of the Bolshevik Party, organizationally not part of the Red Army. They were entrusted with the most urgent and difficult tasks of decisive suppression of conspiracies, riots and other acts of opposition to the Bolshevik regime. The ChON included communists and sympathetic workers and trade union members aged 17 to 55, as well as Komsomol youth. ChON detachments were created at the factory party cells, district committees, city committees and provincial committees of the "Special Purpose Unit" of the RCP (b). The first ChONs arose in Petrograd and Moscow, and then were formed in other provinces of the RSFSR, in the Ukraine, in Belarus, in Kazakhstan and Central Asia.
      Service in ChON was a party duty and a social duty. It was carried out initially on the job. The Chonovtsy were transferred to the barracks position only in an emergency. "Chonists, who by the end of 1919 numbered over 30 thousand, acted in close contact with the Cheka bodies, constituting the combat striking force of the still insufficiently strong repressed bodies. In a number of cases, ChON detachments performed not only punitive functions in the rear of the Soviet republic, but also sent as elite units from the most proven fighters to the active army to the most dangerous sectors of the front.
      After the defeat of the main forces of the White Army and the removal of the threat of foreign military intervention, on the basis of the decision of the X Congress of the RCP (b) of the Central Committee of the 24 Party on March 1921, decided to reorganize the CHON troops and include them in the police units of the Red Army. The personnel of the CHON was divided into personnel and police. In September of that year, the command and headquarters of the CHON of the country were established. The number of personnel of the CHON at the end of 1921 was about 40 thousand people, and the variable (militia) - about 325 thousand people. The CHON troops included all kinds of troops — infantry, artillery, cavalry and armored units. This is certainly not special forces, but they could partisan. And a very serious force. In process of transition of the country to NEP and improvement of the domestic economic situation, some liberalization of the political system, the punitive functions of special units gradually lost their significance. In this regard, in 1924 — 1925 years. as part of the military reform, the CHON were disbanded. However, the experience remains.
      1. Ulan
        Ulan 16 December 2016 13: 15
        12
        I practically agree with everything, but partisan detachments were created on the basis of the NKVD groups and the NKVD commanders and not by chance, but quite purposefully.
        1. Vend
          Vend 10 November 2020 14: 17
          0
          Quote: Ulan
          I practically agree with everything, but partisan detachments were created on the basis of the NKVD groups and the NKVD commanders and not by chance, but quite purposefully.

          There were also those that were created on the basis of the NKVD
          1. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
            Vladimir Vladimirovich S 10 November 2020 20: 51
            0
            Exactly...
      2. Caretaker
        Caretaker 16 December 2016 20: 11
        +3
        Indeed, the commanders of the "first wave" partisan detachments were often trained, unfortunately not all.
        1. Shishiga
          Shishiga 16 December 2016 23: 03
          0
          Are you talking about Medvedev’s squad ?? Nude nude
          1. Amurets
            Amurets 17 December 2016 01: 25
            +6
            Quote: Shishiga
            Are you talking about Medvedev’s squad ?? Nude nude

            Not only Medvedev's troops. Do not forget Zaslonov, Vaupshasov, Starinov. Starinov has only part of the books declassified, but he writes how the special forces soldiers were trained in the books: "Intelligence School 005", "Notes of a saboteur", "Pre-war training (1924-1936) of partisan detachments in the USSR."
            And do not forget the Fighter Battalions, created from the experience of the Civil War. http://elib.bsu.by/bitstream/123456789/123796/1/7
            7-87.pdf
            http://kirzaq.livejournal.com/19916.html
            1. Shishiga
              Shishiga 25 December 2016 14: 45
              +1
              Here I am about the same. Ours didn’t chew bread before the war, prepared as best they could - according to the experience of the Second World War, they were pretty good at it.
              Although I must correct you, the Fighter Battalions did not have a partisan function, and the area of ​​their action and responsibility was more likely ours, and not the German rear.
              "The Fighter Battalion is a militarized, volunteer formation of Soviet citizens capable of wielding weapons, which consisted primarily of party, economic, Komsomol and trade union activists, workers who were not subject to priority conscription in the USSR Armed Forces, during the Great Patriotic War to fight saboteurs, parachutists , spies, henchmen and accomplices of Hitlerite Germany, as well as with deserters, banditry, speculators and marauders, that is, maintaining state, internal and public order during the wartime regime in the rear of the Red Army and Navy. " (from)
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Истребительный_бата
              lion
              1. Amurets
                Amurets 25 December 2016 15: 15
                0
                Quote: Shishiga
                Although I must correct you, the Fighter Battalions did not have a partisan function, and the area of ​​their operation and responsibility was more likely ours, and not the German rear

                That and I are about the same. They just did not understand each other. Because special forces are not only a war in the rear of the enemy, but also a struggle with reconnaissance and sabotage groups of the enemy in their rear.
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 10 November 2020 11: 43
                  +3
                  That and I are about the same. They just did not understand each other. Because special forces are not only a war in the rear of the enemy, but also a struggle with reconnaissance and sabotage groups of the enemy in their rear.

                  Nah. Kontriki are not special forces. It is now the spetsnaz, even the tax inspectorate had it.

                  The classic is a DRG thrown into enemy territory.

                  This is the SPECIAL FORCES: am


                  MALINOVSKAYA Muza Grigorievna (1913-1989), Soviet parachutist-record holder and in this capacity during the Great Patriotic War - a fighter of the KGB special forces behind the front.
                  She was born on May 25, 1913 in the capital of Bashkiria, the city of Ufa. Maiden name - Vikhireva. She was married twice. Mother of two children. The second husband is Eitingon Naum Isaakovich (1899-1981), the legendary Soviet intelligence officer in the line of the KGB department, major general.
                  Graduated from a financial college.
                  In 1934, she became interested in parachuting, which was then taught by her first husband. On August 3, 1934, she made her first jump, jumping with a parachute from a U-2 aircraft from a height of 700 m.
                  On July 17, 1935, in a group with other girls, parachutists, she participated in setting a world record: the girls jumped in two triplets from a height of 7035 m.
                  Subsequently, she mastered the skill of piloting the U-2 aircraft.
                  From 1940 she worked as the chief of physical training of the Academy of the Civil Air Fleet. But with the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, he was a staff member of the parachute service of the Separate Special Motorized Rifle Brigade of the NKVD troops of the USSR (since October 1943 - the Separate Special Purpose Detachment of the NKGB of the USSR).


                  http://voenspez.ru/index.php?topic=323.160
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 11 November 2020 19: 17
                    +1
                    Quote: Arzt
                    Nah. Kontriki are not special forces.

                    In the 3rd brigade of the Special Forces, there was a unit that was subordinate to the military counterintelligence, and was trained according to the same program as the rest of the military personnel of the formation. You understand where they went after that in civilian life - it was the reserve of the KGB of the USSR.
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 11 November 2020 21: 08
                      0
                      You understand where they went after that in civilian life - it was the reserve of the KGB of the USSR.

                      I think these are those who later went to the groups for control.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 12 November 2020 11: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        I think these are those who later went to the groups for control.

                        This was the headquarters company. And why should they do this if they had their own tasks?
                2. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 11 November 2020 17: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Amurets
                  Quote: Shishiga
                  Although I must correct you, the Fighter Battalions did not have a partisan function, and the area of ​​their operation and responsibility was more likely ours, and not the German rear

                  That and I are about the same. They just did not understand each other. Because special forces are not only a war in the rear of the enemy, but also a struggle with reconnaissance and sabotage groups of the enemy in their rear.

                  Initially, the Special Forces is the army's special intelligence, what could it have to do with its own rear, other than stuffing a backpack with someone else's carcass? laughing
        2. Duisenbay Bankankulov
          Duisenbay Bankankulov 11 January 2017 17: 36
          0
          But what about soldier ingenuity? After all, there is a bike about German passports, with which the agents failed in the first inspection of the patrol, the clip was made of stainless wire ...
      3. Stas57
        Stas57 18 December 2016 11: 13
        0
        yes actually vinaigrette- GRU, NKVD, CHON, Komsomol volunteers ..
        close relative in the capital of Ukraine and deciduous shrub, family Adoksovye (Adoxaceae)
      4. captain
        captain 24 January 2017 14: 53
        +1
        Dear Wend, the authors didn’t mix anything, because one of the tasks of the GRU special forces is to create a partisan movement on the territory occupied by the enemy or the territory of the enemy. Another thing is that during the war years, partisan detachments were created by several organizations. Party structures, NKVD structures, army structures, encirclement and ordinary civilians. In 1942 everything was subordinated to one body, Order No. 00125 of June 16 of 1942 of the year “On the Formation of the Main and Regional Headquarters of the Partisan Movement”. True, then, as the leapfrog usually began, all the secretaries of the Union republics felt themselves to be major experts in this matter and wished to lead their republics.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 10 November 2020 14: 27
          0
          Another thing is that during the war years, partisan detachments were created by several organizations. Party structures, NKVD structures, army structures, encircled people, and ordinary civilians.


          Systemically - mostly they are.



          Selected Wrecks: am



          Preparation - Bayonet Fight



          Mountain training



          Connection with the mainland

      5. Doctor
        Doctor 10 November 2020 08: 57
        +1
        Article +, but here "tomatoes and oranges" are mixed. Partisans and special forces are two different concepts. Partisan detachments were created in the occupied territory by members of district committees, city committees, party members, etc. As such, there really was no special forces.

        Yes, horses in one pile, people ...

        In principle, special forces in the sense that we understand now was OMSBON - a separate motorized rifle brigade of special purpose of the NKVD of the USSR.
        More precisely, even a Special Group under the NKVD of the USSR headed by Sudoplatov. The beginning of the formation on June 27, 1941
        And since the NKVD was not engaged in anything, then its employees noted themselves in the most unexpected places.
        For example, the first NSH OMSBON P. Bogdanov began the platoon commander of the GPU, and ended up as a fireman. laughing
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 10 November 2020 09: 35
          -1
          Quote: Arzt
          For example, the first NSH OMSBON P. Bogdanov began the platoon commander of the GPU, and ended up as a fireman

          Rokossovsky was supposed to hate him twofold - both the NKVD firefighter and the NKVD border guard ..)
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 10 November 2020 11: 34
            0
            Rokossovsky was supposed to hate him twofold - both the NKVD firefighter and the NKVD border guard ..)

            And what about the firemen?
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 10 November 2020 13: 47
              0
              So after all, too - the NKVD. And then, from the type of a retired ladle, there was an article that Rokossovsky remembered everything to the NKVD, prada to the border guards.
        2. Doliva63
          Doliva63 11 November 2020 17: 28
          0
          Quote: Arzt
          Article +, but here "tomatoes and oranges" are mixed. Partisans and special forces are two different concepts. Partisan detachments were created in the occupied territory by members of district committees, city committees, party members, etc. As such, there really was no special forces.

          Yes, horses in one pile, people ...

          In principle, special forces in the sense that we understand now was OMSBON - a separate motorized rifle brigade of special purpose of the NKVD of the USSR.
          More precisely, even a Special Group under the NKVD of the USSR headed by Sudoplatov. The beginning of the formation on June 27, 1941
          And since the NKVD was not engaged in anything, then its employees noted themselves in the most unexpected places.
          For example, the first NSH OMSBON P. Bogdanov began the platoon commander of the GPU, and ended up as a fireman. laughing

          Spesnaz in the sense that we understand it is front-line intelligence in wartime, district intelligence in peacetime. What has the NKVD and so on?
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 11 November 2020 19: 30
            +1
            Spesnaz in the sense that we understand it is front-line intelligence in wartime, district intelligence in peacetime.

            It is clear that everything is very close, but still intelligence is intelligence, and special operations are special operations. Although, of course, both tasks can be performed by the same unit.
            At the same time, these tasks can directly contradict each other.
            If we take aerobatics - deep reconnaissance then:

            Depth reconnaissance groups are organized, prepared and armed to penetrate the enemy rear in order to observe and report on the location, movement and actions of the enemy, as well as on the situation on the battlefield. The tasks and goals of the group depend on the intelligence that is needed by the command.

            The withdrawal of groups to the rear of the enemy is carried out by air, land, sea (river) or by backing. Groups are watching avoiding contact with the enemy and the local population. To detect, observe and control enemy activity, they can install a variety of reconnaissance and signaling equipment (sensors) and other special equipment. They also perform other reconnaissance tasks.

            Depth reconnaissance groups are not able to conduct direct combat operations, and are not intended for this. Their tasks are limited to reconnaissance and stationary surveillance, which differ from most of the tasks of the Special Operations Forces.


            But the assault on Amin's palace and the destruction of Bin Laden are a little different, this is the special forces. Although in such a case, of course, there is no way without intelligence. bully
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 11 November 2020 20: 07
              -1
              Quote: Arzt
              Spesnaz in the sense that we understand it is front-line intelligence in wartime, district intelligence in peacetime.

              It is clear that everything is very close, but still intelligence is intelligence, and special operations are special operations. Although, of course, both tasks can be performed by the same unit.
              At the same time, these tasks can directly contradict each other.
              If we take aerobatics - deep reconnaissance then:

              Depth reconnaissance groups are organized, prepared and armed to penetrate the enemy rear in order to observe and report on the location, movement and actions of the enemy, as well as on the situation on the battlefield. The tasks and goals of the group depend on the intelligence that is needed by the command.

              The withdrawal of groups to the rear of the enemy is carried out by air, land, sea (river) or by backing. Groups are watching avoiding contact with the enemy and the local population. To detect, observe and control enemy activity, they can install a variety of reconnaissance and signaling equipment (sensors) and other special equipment. They also perform other reconnaissance tasks.

              Depth reconnaissance groups are not able to conduct direct combat operations, and are not intended for this. Their tasks are limited to reconnaissance and stationary surveillance, which differ from most of the tasks of the Special Operations Forces.


              But the assault on Amin's palace and the destruction of Bin Laden are a little different, this is the special forces. Although in such a case, of course, there is no way without intelligence. bully

              Deep reconnaissance companies were "ordered to live long" in the early 80s, if you don't know. And the most "working" position in the Special Forces is a scout, no matter how funny laughing Read specialized literature, or something.
          2. Doctor
            Doctor 11 November 2020 19: 59
            0
            What has the NKVD and so on?

            Despite the fact that during the Second World War it was the OMSBON of the NKVD that was the classic special forces. And the fact that the subordination is not army - it happened so.
            If this is not special forces, then what:



            By the way, the Ministry of Defense did not bother with special forces until the end of the war. Perhaps this is correct. There is a lot of clap, and the exhaust is questionable.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 11 November 2020 20: 10
              0
              Quote: Arzt
              What has the NKVD and so on?

              Despite the fact that during the Second World War it was the OMSBON of the NKVD that was the classic special forces. And the fact that the subordination is not army - it happened so.
              If this is not special forces, then what:



              By the way, the Ministry of Defense did not bother with special forces until the end of the war. Perhaps this is correct. There is a lot of clap, and the exhaust is questionable.

              You just do not know, you are forgiven.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 11 November 2020 20: 22
                0
                You just do not know, you are forgiven.

                We again run into definition and objectives.

                Bring me in on what special operations the Red Army conducted during the war.
                "Bagration"? laughing

                This is hot. But this is the Navy.

                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 12 November 2020 18: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: Arzt
                  You just do not know, you are forgiven.

                  We again run into definition and objectives.

                  Bring me in on what special operations the Red Army conducted during the war.
                  "Bagration"? laughing

                  This is hot. But this is the Navy.


                  Doctor, I'll be sober, I will answer laughing drinks
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 10 November 2020 12: 41
      +2
      Quote: V.ic
      If there is no continuation, then the article = just the usual "zavlekalovo".

      As for the references to a certain Steinberg and his book, this is not a completely reliable source of information, although his assertion that special forces units in its modern understanding did not exist in 1941 in the GRU General Staff these parts were created much later.
      There is an excellent book by the professional intelligence officer V. Nikolsky "Aquarium-2", which describes in detail how the scouts-saboteurs were trained in the initial period of the war:
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 11 November 2020 17: 48
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        Quote: V.ic
        If there is no continuation, then the article = just the usual "zavlekalovo".

        As for the references to a certain Steinberg and his book, this is not a completely reliable source of information, although his assertion that special forces units in its modern understanding did not exist in 1941 in the GRU General Staff these parts were created much later.
        There is an excellent book by the professional intelligence officer V. Nikolsky "Aquarium-2", which describes in detail how the scouts-saboteurs were trained in the initial period of the war:

        No. The name of the Special Forces was not, and everything else was: long-range reconnaissance, and the destruction of strategically important objects, and the organization of a partisan (national liberation laughing ) movement on enemy territory - everything was. It's just that all this was brought together in one place under one control, as it should be in the army. And they called it special intelligence only because of all the Lances - after all, the work on them was specific. And as a special need for this disappeared, they used our special forces as light infantry - both in Afghanistan and in Chechnya. And now too.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 11 November 2020 19: 13
          +1
          Quote: Doliva63
          No. The name of the Special Forces was not, and everything else was: long-range reconnaissance, and the destruction of strategically important objects, and the organization of a partisan (national liberation

          About the tasks - they certainly have not changed, as well as the methods of conducting reconnaissance. But the equipment itself and the unique tasks of the units that they were solving became somewhat different, much more specific than during the war. First, there was a communication service of its own, different from the army, which included agent stations. The central communications facilities of the special forces are not included in the nomenclature of the chief of communications of the Armed Forces, and no one has them. Secondly, small arms appeared that were not in other parts of the SA - for example, silent pistols, LDCs, Vintorez, etc. In the third, unique engineering ammunition appeared, including a wearable nuclear one.
          So the spetsnaz units became completely different from the rest of the armed forces, while during the war all RDGs used ordinary army equipment, with the exception of the "Sever" radio station, which was developed by order of the GRU.
          Quote: Doliva63
          It's just that all this was brought together in one place under one control, as it should be in the army.

          Not quite so - the separate companies of the Special Forces were of army subordination, and the brigade was subordinate to the district. The naval special forces were subordinate to their naval commanders, i.e. not all were under the same control, although the GRU was responsible for training and equipping all special forces units with the equipment for which they were responsible.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 11 November 2020 19: 32
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            Quote: Doliva63
            No. The name of the Special Forces was not, and everything else was: long-range reconnaissance, and the destruction of strategically important objects, and the organization of a partisan (national liberation

            About the tasks - they certainly have not changed, as well as the methods of conducting reconnaissance. But the equipment itself and the unique tasks of the units that they were solving became somewhat different, much more specific than during the war. First, there was a communication service of its own, different from the army, which included agent stations. The central communications facilities of the special forces are not included in the nomenclature of the chief of communications of the Armed Forces, and no one has them. Secondly, small arms appeared that were not in other parts of the SA - for example, silent pistols, LDCs, Vintorez, etc. In the third, unique engineering ammunition appeared, including a wearable nuclear one.
            So the spetsnaz units became completely different from the rest of the armed forces, while during the war all RDGs used ordinary army equipment, with the exception of the "Sever" radio station, which was developed by order of the GRU.
            Quote: Doliva63
            It's just that all this was brought together in one place under one control, as it should be in the army.

            Not quite so - the separate companies of the Special Forces were of army subordination, and the brigade was subordinate to the district. The naval special forces were subordinate to their naval commanders, i.e. not all were under the same control, although the GRU was responsible for training and equipping all special forces units with the equipment for which they were responsible.

            Aha laughing Don't you know that information flows from the junior intelligence agency to the senior one? You, like, Grushnik, should know. This is the essence of the centralization of intelligence under the "cap" of the GRU, which provides this information to the main customer - the GUO GSh. And about Vintorez it's funny - before them there was no special forces, or what? They were not in the Muslim battalion - are we deleting them? And there were no small-sized NPs either. And how long has this not been in the fighting brigades and units / battalions?
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 12 November 2020 11: 35
              +2
              Quote: Doliva63
              Don't you know that information flows from the junior intelligence agency to the senior one?

              To put all the points over the "I", I will try to explain to you what the pre-war special forces and the one that was in the USSR after the companies, battalions (detachments) and special forces brigades were created.
              Before the Second World War, special intelligence did not exist as an independent department in the intelligence departments of the districts, and the forces of agent and combined-arms reconnaissance were involved in such operations, which led to problems even at the level of task setting, tk. it is not clear in what situation whom to choose for carrying out special operations. Moreover, during the war, the GRU was reorganized and, moreover, a strong partisan movement made adjustments to the training of scouts for operations in the deep rear.
              After the war, when the companies first appeared, and then the special forces brigades, special intelligence was removed from the tasks of the chiefs of the 1st and 2nd departments of the RU, and a new 3rd department was created, which became responsible for conducting special operations, and they could be far outside the area of ​​the district (front). This was a fundamental turning point in the activities of special intelligence, tk. it was allocated to an independent intelligence structure at the district level and the GRU General Staff.
              Although individual special operations can be carried out by both undercover intelligence agencies and long-range reconnaissance companies of reconnaissance battalions, everything depends on their capabilities, and they are much smaller than in a special operations brigade. This is the fundamental difference between what special intelligence could carry out during the war and in the postwar period, when it was raised to a completely different level.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 12 November 2020 17: 49
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                Quote: Doliva63
                Don't you know that information flows from the junior intelligence agency to the senior one?

                To put all the points over the "I", I will try to explain to you what the pre-war special forces and the one that was in the USSR after the companies, battalions (detachments) and special forces brigades were created.
                Before the Second World War, special intelligence did not exist as an independent department in the intelligence departments of the districts, and the forces of agent and combined-arms reconnaissance were involved in such operations, which led to problems even at the level of task setting, tk. it is not clear in what situation whom to choose for carrying out special operations. Moreover, during the war, the GRU was reorganized and, moreover, a strong partisan movement made adjustments to the training of scouts for operations in the deep rear.
                After the war, when the companies first appeared, and then the special forces brigades, special intelligence was removed from the tasks of the chiefs of the 1st and 2nd departments of the RU, and a new 3rd department was created, which became responsible for conducting special operations, and they could be far outside the area of ​​the district (front). This was a fundamental turning point in the activities of special intelligence, tk. it was allocated to an independent intelligence structure at the district level and the GRU General Staff.
                Although individual special operations can be carried out by both undercover intelligence agencies and long-range reconnaissance companies of reconnaissance battalions, everything depends on their capabilities, and they are much smaller than in a special operations brigade. This is the fundamental difference between what special intelligence could carry out during the war and in the postwar period, when it was raised to a completely different level.

                Well, here I agree with you. My speech was that special intelligence was (starting with the Trojan horse), is and will be. The name does not matter drinks
  2. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 16 December 2016 07: 08
    +6
    We look forward to continuing - the beginning is good. Although all the facts are pretty well known. Hopefully there will be something new.
    1. Senior manager
      Senior manager 19 December 2016 18: 23
      +1
      I read a book published after Stalin's death, which described the actions before the Second World War to create partisan cells, weapons bases, mining of strategic structures, including training personnel in the skills of partisan actions. Subsequently, the partisan cells were disbanded, the bases were removed, and the bridges were cleared of mines. The reason for curtailing the training of partisans was the inconsistency of these actions with the dominant slogan - "to beat the enemy on his territory with little blood." If memory serves, then the book was called "Mines are waiting in the wings", the author is Grigoriev, published in 1957. This is what I read in my youth.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 12 November 2020 18: 05
        0
        Quote: St. Propulsion
        I read a book published after Stalin's death, which described the actions before the Second World War to create partisan cells, weapons bases, mining of strategic structures, including training personnel in the skills of partisan actions. Subsequently, the partisan cells were disbanded, the bases were removed, and the bridges were cleared of mines. The reason for curtailing the training of partisans was the inconsistency of these actions with the dominant slogan - "to beat the enemy on his territory with little blood." If memory serves, then the book was called "Mines are waiting in the wings", the author is Grigoriev, published in 1957. This is what I read in my youth.

        "Mines are waiting in the wings", it seems, Starinov wrote. A famous person, however.
  3. Amurets
    Amurets 16 December 2016 07: 18
    +3
    At the same headquarters, the well-known Warsaw Intelligence School was created, where personnel were trained to transfer to the Soviet rear.
    For some reason, they forget that just before the war and in the beginning of the war, our counterintelligence officers encountered the Wehrmacht army special forces of the military unit of Bradenburg 800, whose saboteurs had rich experience gained even before the attack on the USSR. http://www.istpravda.ru/digest/2227/
    https://topwar.ru/38581-nacistskoe-diversionnoe-p
    odrazdelenie-brandenburg-800.html
    And also with the nationalist organizations of Western Ukraine and Belarus and the Baltic republics, which were generously helped by Abwehr and other organizations.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 16 December 2016 09: 57
      +4
      Good afternoon, Nikolai!
      I read the article, I really hope that this will be a whole big cycle. It’s possible to provide information and material on this topic over the years.
      Sincerely.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 16 December 2016 10: 14
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        I read the article, I really hope that this will be a whole big cycle. It’s possible to provide information and material on this topic over the years.

        Dima! This is not for me, this is for the authors. In one you are right, this topic is inexhaustible.
  4. igordok
    igordok 16 December 2016 08: 59
    +3
    That's the other side. Counterintelligence and the fight against enemy saboteurs. For such a struggle, the militia and the police, as it were, did not fit. Another well-trained commando can best neutralize a well-trained special forces soldier.

    Sometimes they did. Operation "Happy New Year" 01.01.44g of the Pskov partisans under the control of intelligence to defeat the Abwehr school in the village. Stoves near Pskov. Captured by deputy. the head of the school and documents, which had to be taken away with the help of a cart, were transported to the mainland.
    Happy New Year!
    By the beginning of the operation, the capture group and the cover detachment led by Georgy Pyatkin were relocated to the village of Kryzhiki, located near Pechkov. From here on the night of January 1 of 1944 of the year, the "Gestapo" left for the reconnaissance school.
    - The festive night for the operation was not chosen by chance. We knew that the school has many hunters for alcohol. The calculation was justified - cadets, officers, and guards walked, - recalled George Pyatkin.
    At the checkpoint, the group was met by a duty officer - it was Lazarev. Having given commands to the guards, he led partisans to the houses of the leaders. The Croat was not in place - he was called to Berlin the day before. But there was Guryanov. He was informed that the arriving German officers were Gestapo officers, and he would be sent to Pskov on the orders of the German command. While they put Guryanov in a sleigh, they simultaneously opened a safe with documents - an archive of personal records of school agents. Lazarev led the "Gestapo" outside the territory. The whole operation took a matter of minutes.
    Guryanov and documents urgently sent by plane to Leningrad. During the investigation, he spoke in detail about the activities of the school, handing over several already introduced German agents. And including disclosed information about the impending terrorist attack against the country's top leadership.

  5. tundra
    tundra 16 December 2016 09: 20
    +9
    In principle, no one has better told Vladimir Bogomolov about the work of counterintelligence. And, apparently, will not tell. Not those times in the yard. +++++++++++
    1. Rostislav
      Rostislav 16 December 2016 11: 01
      +6
      Not in this case. Written "In August 44th" is very cool. Even my daughters reread it.
      1. tundra
        tundra 16 December 2016 11: 45
        +5
        I myself reread it many times.
        My friend almost knows her by heart.
        Here is an interesting fact: during the life of Bogomolov, several times they tried to film his book, well, each time the author closed the topic, because he did not like the proposed script, and Bogomolov himself did not agree with the director's vision.
        This film was shot after the death of the author.
        1. Standard
          Standard 16 December 2016 13: 29
          +1
          Quote: tundra
          This film was shot after the death of the author.

          Maybe finished after death. But the performer of the role of Alyokhin (E. Mironov) told how he consulted with Bogomolov - despite the fact that Bogomolov was generally against the film.
          A remarkable episode with a cap, which wanted to "highlight" the group commander E. Mironov.
          And how did you come to the advice of Bogomolov ?! - In short, canceled.
          1. tundra
            tundra 16 December 2016 13: 37
            +3
            Quote: Norma
            Maybe finished after death.

            Maybe.
            Well, I know for sure that he rejected some scenarios.
            So that the Chernukha, which is now a dime a dozen, does not work out.
            Already a bandarchuk, he would definitely not let it go, otherwise it would be the next 9th company in Stalingrad.
      2. 77_78
        77_78 18 December 2016 15: 42
        0
        This is the title of the film, Bogomolov wrote "The Moment of Truth"
        1. tundra
          tundra 20 December 2016 10: 45
          +1
          Quote: 77_78
          This is the title of the film, Bogomolov wrote "The Moment of Truth"

          Books of different editions have names that vary.
          Some have "Moment of Truth" and in quotes In August 44.
          For others, the opposite is in quotation marks. Moment of truth.
          1. 77_78
            77_78 20 December 2016 14: 48
            +1
            Mercy for the amendment, such a kind of motivating Pendel. He delved into the history of the creation of the work and, as they say, learned a lot.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 10 November 2020 08: 36
      0
      In principle, no one has better told Vladimir Bogomolov about the work of counterintelligence. And, apparently, will not tell. Not those times in the yard. +++++++++++

      Well written. But it has little to do with reality.
  6. Smirnov
    Smirnov 16 December 2016 10: 47
    +9
    The work of the Soviet special forces is very well described in the book of the legendary commander of the reconnaissance and deviation detachment Ivan Georgievich Starchak "From the sky into battle" www.litmir.co/br/?b=246647
    Unfortunately, very little is written about such people today and films are not made, and young people take the Steinberg creations at face value.
    It is a GREAT ALARM that our children study the history of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR for the entire course of the secondary school in just four chapters and only in grade 9. This is a betrayal at the state level.
    1. uskrabut
      uskrabut 16 December 2016 13: 12
      +1
      Quote: Smirnov
      Our children study the history of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR for the entire course of the secondary school in just four chapters and only in grade 9

      I share the indignation. According to the Great Patriotic War, a separate textbook should be published, many facts, a large territory was covered.
      1. domokl
        domokl 16 December 2016 13: 57
        0
        Quote: uskrabut
        commander of the reconnaissance and diversion detachment Ivan Georgievich Starchak

        Perhaps the Bible should be next ... I will not say anything after the words of a truly Hero ...
    2. Knizhnik
      Knizhnik 19 December 2016 10: 01
      +1
      "From the sky to battle"

      I read with interest
  7. Knizhnik
    Knizhnik 16 December 2016 11: 15
    +1
    SMERSH was created in 43, if I'm not mistaken. There were NKVD troops with good motivation, rifle and hand-to-hand training. Speaking of the situation at the beginning of the war, for example, if we take the same detachment of the legendary Medvedev, it was created practically from scratch, the personnel - athletes, officers - with experience of wars, starting with the civil one. I have not heard about units similar to the same "Bradenburg" that existed before the war, I will be grateful for the reference.
    1. Caretaker
      Caretaker 16 December 2016 20: 16
      +1
      Strange, you have not read about Ivan Georgievich Starchak?
      1. Knizhnik
        Knizhnik 19 December 2016 10: 00
        0
        Are you talking about "From the sky - into battle"? I just finished reading, following Smirnov's link. Parachutists. Perhaps yes.
  8. free
    free 16 December 2016 11: 52
    +3
    This one, like his steinbrehun, a pranky dog, is not worth wasting time on him, a dog with him and his scribbles.
  9. free
    free 16 December 2016 11: 54
    +2
    Quote: Smirnov
    The work of the Soviet special forces is very well described in the book of the legendary commander of the reconnaissance and deviation detachment Ivan Georgievich Starchak "From the sky into battle" www.litmir.co/br/?b=246647
    Unfortunately, very little is written about such people today and films are not made, and young people take the Steinberg creations at face value.
    It is a GREAT ALARM that our children study the history of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR for the entire course of the secondary school in just four chapters and only in grade 9. This is a betrayal at the state level.


    the entire education system is a betrayal, bureaucrats from the ministry of education it’s time to plant packs with complete confiscation!
  10. Polkanov
    Polkanov 16 December 2016 13: 03
    0
    ... wait, to continue. Do not be distracted by all sorts ... berg ...
  11. veteran66
    veteran66 16 December 2016 13: 39
    +1
    Thanks to precisely precise and timely, although perhaps somewhat late reaction, the result was more than 6 000 guerrilla units, numbering about 1 a million people operating in 1941 — 1944 in the occupied territory of the USSR.
    But can it be broken down by year? They do not give a breakdown, otherwise it would be clear that in the 41st and the beginning of the 42nd mass it was not. Or maybe he was right
    Mr. Steinberg in his opus “Soviet Special Forces: Takeoffs and Tragedies”.
    when he wrote that:
    "... the Soviet special forces in the first period of the war seemed to be inactive, but in fact by that time it practically did not exist. Some of the army saboteurs were shot, some died in Siberia. The measures planned in the event of a German invasion were not carried out, the selection and training of people for sabotage and reconnaissance actions was not carried out, the bases of weapons and ammunition were not laid, radio communications were not organized. As already mentioned in the first essay, everything that was created before the Stalinist repressions was almost completely destroyed by the NKVD. In general, I did not read further, agitation.
  12. Dekabrist
    Dekabrist 16 December 2016 14: 34
    +4
    About the Soviet special forces:
    Military Review website, article "Soviet Special Forces: From Creation to Our Time", March 11, 2012;
    Series Special Forces of the Second World (Russia, 4 series) 2010 year;
    Site "special forces":
    "The most numerous and strongest units of special purpose during the Second World War are reasonably considered the assault engineer brigades of the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Red Army (SHISBr) - the Soviet special forces of the Great Patriotic War, created in the spring of 1943.

    At the very beginning of the Great Patriotic War, special fronts of the intelligence departments of the Fronts raided the enemy’s rear, carried out sabotage operations, collected intelligence, and destroyed traitors. To conduct combat operations in isolation from the main forces in the most difficult sectors, in the mountains of the Caucasus Range, special mountain rifle units were created that had special training and equipment. But in the middle of the war, the use of such sabotage and partisan groups was already ineffective.

    Germany, although it was preparing for a lightning war, took all measures to protect its own territory. The Soviet infantry, even with fire support, could not take the German fortifications erected in settlements without heavy losses. Concrete and steel German bunkers, fortified cellars, ruins, entangled with barbed wire - all this was supported by anti-tank batteries and guns.

    At the headquarters of the Supreme High Command, it was decided to create special assault brigades - special forces of the Great Patriotic War, capable of performing tasks of increased combat complexity. By then, England and the USA already had experience in creating such units. The British commandos from 1940goda conducted special operations on the territory of Europe occupied by the Nazis. American rangers in the 1942 year participated in the North African campaign. The effectiveness of such special squads was confirmed by facts.

    In the spring of 1943, the first assault brigades were created. Engineer-engineer units of the Red Army became the foundation for fifteen new special forces. The most competent and trained specialists entered the special forces of the Great Patriotic War. For the candidate for the attack aircraft, a strict qualification was established. Age no more than 40 years, good physical preparation, speed of thinking and reaction - all this was dictated by the difficult tasks that the soldiers had to perform.

    Operations carried out by attack teams were different from combined arms. There was no loud “cheers”, the attack was unexpected, quiet and lightning fast. This was facilitated by the special tactics used by the attack aircraft. As a rule, the beginning of a special operation was the conduct by a company of engineering intelligence of a thorough examination of enemy fortifications, the establishment of minefields, the possibility of clearing or bypassing them. Based on these data, an object capture plan was developed. After which the assault began directly.

    The attack aircraft included a large set of technical devices and military equipment. Standard “fuse set”, pouches with Molotov cocktail and ammunition, increased stock of grenades, sapper shovel, knives. In addition to the machine gun, the ShISBra fighters were armed with light machine guns and anti-tank rifles, which were used to destroy the firing points. From the end of the 1943 year, commandos had a knapsack flamethrower. For the Faustpatrons that the Germans threw during the retreat, the stormtroopers came up with a special stand and shot them at the enemy immediately with a salvo of 5-10 pieces. The weak likeness of today's bulletproof vest is a steel bib that protected the fighter from small fragments and wounds.

    Each attack aircraft was thoroughly trained in hand-to-hand combat, throwing knives, axes, sapper blades. Training, in which stormtrooper fighters ran in full gear under the whistle of live bullets, was a regular form of training for these soldiers. All the skills necessary for a super-soldier were worked out to automatism, brought to the level of instinct. Tough conditions for selection, preparation and training were the key to preserving the life and combat effectiveness of the attack aircraft. "
    You can go on and on.
    So the authors have the prospect of parts on 10.
    1. domokl
      domokl 16 December 2016 16: 42
      +1
      bully Why on 10? 100 parts minimum ... A special purpose is not only that it is scouts and saboteurs .. It is, for example, experts on the destruction of mountain trails lol But there is still a special purpose, so the prospects of ogre laughing omny ...
    2. Caretaker
      Caretaker 16 December 2016 20: 21
      0
      If we classify "assault engineering and sapper brigades of the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Red Army (SHISBr)" as spetsnaz, then it is necessary to clarify the definition of this very "sptsnaz".
    3. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 10 November 2020 12: 30
      0
      Who and where (besides you here) called the assault groups "special forces"?
  13. bandabas
    bandabas 16 December 2016 15: 16
    0
    There is a pretty good book "Special Forces in the Second World War" by Yuri Nenakhov. I have it in a book version. And who is interested I give the link http://fanread.ru/book/2990220/
  14. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 16 December 2016 15: 29
    +1
    We will not comment. What can I say against it? To argue about the actions of the guerrilla units of the NKVD? Omsbon? Brigade Kovpaka? Squad "Mitya" (reconnaissance and sabotage residency number 4 / 70 Special Forces troops under the NKVD of the USSR) under the command of D. N. Medvedev? Group Nikolai Kuznetsov?


    One small question for the editors.

    At what specific time were the mentioned reconnaissance and sabotage and partisan formations and detachments formed and put into action? wink
  15. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 16 December 2016 15: 35
    +3
    In SMERSH really took very well-trained fighters. With special pleasure - border guards and intelligence officers. That is, those who are perfectly aware of the essence of the actions of the enemy. So, could make a neutralization with the greatest efficiency.


    And most of all, mobilized employees of the criminal investigation department, investigative bodies, etc. were taken there. even taking into account retraining, little has changed for them. The same daily routine work that they did before the war. Adjusted for the specifics of military counterintelligence.
    1. domokl
      domokl 16 December 2016 16: 45
      +3
      Yes, the work of a search agent for a routine ... As well as the work, for example, of groups for capturing wells in the Rostov Region during the war. Or as a job of finding and destroying caches in the forests of Berolusi and Ukraine ... Nothing new ... Seek and destroy ...
  16. Caretaker
    Caretaker 16 December 2016 20: 31
    +1
    With the collapse of the USSR, a stream of our former compatriots surged abroad. Among them were former military personnel. Not to mention the multitude of journalists and other creative people who considered themselves experts in the military secrets of the Soviet Army. It was the symbiosis of these two categories of emigrants that gave rise to the product that you can read today. And the need to quickly receive royalties, the Western layman's need for "hot news" from the "evil empire", and the order of some government agencies to create an image of the enemy, gave rise to a lot of pseudo-history materials, including about the special forces of the Soviet Army.
    Author: Alexander Staver, Roman Skomorokhov

    This is a "frank confession" or the consequences of a "hacker attack".
    ..We will take the liberty (not without reason, however) to talk about this ...

    It looks like an advertisement by a little-known author, pretending to be his criticism.
    Your argument is sewn with white thread (by date). I am ashamed. It seems that the authors of the article read several articles from the wiki and rushed to write an article. Why, do you have that, there wasn’t time to think over and justify reasonably?
  17. Caretaker
    Caretaker 16 December 2016 20: 50
    +4
    The fact that the Red Army and the NKVD were able to organize the training and education of intelligence and counterintelligence officers ...

    Again only the NKVD?
    When liberal monarchists write about the complete NKVD, this is understandable, they have an order and one gyrus. Why do you need this?
    In 1941 from 1943 intelligence and counterintelligence engaged in the NKGB. The authors do not know about this?
    The Main Directorate of Counterintelligence "Smersh" of the People’s Commissariat of Defense (NCO) is the military counterintelligence, the head is V. S. Abakumov. Reported directly to the addict of defense I.V. Stalin. (not the NKVD)
    Smersh Counterintelligence Directorate of the People’s Commissariat of the Navy, chief - Lt. Gen. Coast Guard P. A. Gladkov. Submitted to the narcotics of the fleet N. G. Kuznetsov. (not the NKVD)
    Counterintelligence Division “Smersh” (NKVD), head - S. P. Yuhimovich. Subordinate to the addict L.P. Beria
    OMSBON, mentioned in the article, since 1943. was under operational control of the NKGB of the USSR.
    The central headquarters of the partisan movement at the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command is the central organ of military control of the partisan movement at the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command of the USSR Armed Forces. (not the NKVD)

    And they have all the NKVD!
  18. Caretaker
    Caretaker 16 December 2016 20: 59
    0
    ... We will take the liberty (not without reason, however) to speak on this subject ...
    Author: Alexander Staver, Roman Skomorokhov

    Overconfidently. It seems that the article was written to order, in one evening, on the basis of Wikipedia, without going into details.
  19. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 16 December 2016 21: 31
    +1
    I would advise the authors (yes, and everyone) to read the book of the legendary Starinov I.G. "Mines are waiting in the wings." As a child, I read this book, the first issue. A thin book. But, there, in the first person, about saboteurs, and partisans, and about the pre-war training of partisan detachments, and what happened to them ...
    PS Some sheets were torn out in the book. Now I understand why. The owner thus saved the book.
    1. Senior manager
      Senior manager 19 December 2016 18: 38
      +2
      I came across a complete book, my post is higher. Starinov, of course, and he was christened Grigoriev in the book "The Underground Regional Committee Acts." The main thing is that a person writes strictly only what he himself witnessed, the book made a huge impression on me.
  20. zenion
    zenion 16 December 2016 22: 53
    +4
    There is still not a very thick book about the work of counterintelligence from the very beginning of the war. "This has not been reported." There it is very briefly about how they caught and caught German agents back in 1941. What is surprising is that there were Jewish spies and spies. Well, the secular could not think that the Jews, after all that they knew, would go to serve those who destroyed the Jewish tribe, and these bastards. Although the Germans could not force them. All the relatives of these agents were evacuated to Uzbekistan at the very beginning of the war. But these bastards voluntarily appeared in the Gestapo and declared that they wanted to help the German correct army. One walked around Kiev, because she knew everyone with whom she was trained and passed them to the Gestapo. They tracked down and arrested entire groups of underground workers. At the same time, she handed over Jews, which is trifling. Her husband worked in the cipher department of the army headquarters and was also a pig. He took out secret data and hid it in the hollow of a tree. Then this madame came and carried them away to the Germans. They caught him at the headquarters. And they wanted to steal her in order to send her to Moscow. But the Germans somehow found out, or maybe they followed her. When we were retreating into the forest, a sniper shot her. She knew what the Gestapo needed, and the Gestapo did not want the Red Army to know what the Gestapo wanted. A very interesting book with facts. I read it several times in one evening.
    1. aiw
      aiw 18 December 2016 14: 43
      +1
      > Her husband worked in the encryption department of the army headquarters and was also a pig. He took out secret data and hid it in the hollow of a tree. Then this madame came and carried them away to the Germans.

      On foot? Across the front line? In the gaps between raids on occupied Kiev? Madame, I suppose, super marathons ran in an invisibility cloak, from occupied Kiev to army headquarters tea is not far ...

      > When we were retreating into the forest, a sniper shot her.

      Well, yes, on a territory controlled by their troops, on the way of the enemy DRG’s withdrawal, they specially planted a sniper ... there wouldn’t be a MG to deliver. Looks like ammo saved?
  21. antivirus
    antivirus 16 December 2016 23: 00
    0
    Let them remember that the weak and half-gone in Siberia defeated Hitler. And if at full strength, then the horror in the 21st century
  22. Cananecat
    Cananecat 17 December 2016 02: 05
    +3
    For the authors, minus ... even a minuscule ... I’m a bit from the special forces and its history, but even when I started reading the article, I realized that the crap would go on after comparing the partisans with the special forces. With all due respect to Roman, you guys can write better ... but apparently you don't want to. Our special forces, this is so deep and extensive topic that a couple of superficial articles can not do here. Even if we divide it into 10 years, starting with tsarist Russia and its plastoons, then 10 articles will be few ... as they say, "Learn materiel ..."
  23. hagrid
    hagrid 18 December 2016 04: 47
    +2
    first give a definition of what the author means by special forces
  24. Catphantom
    Catphantom 18 December 2016 09: 06
    0
    Steinberg exaggerated, of course, but he conveyed the leitmotif of the actual situation in the initial period of the war correctly. But what the author wanted to say - he hardly knows even himself. On the one hand: what a qualified and numerous special forces we had, and right away. On the other hand, he contradicts himself ... "it was by 1943 that the Soviet special forces acquired the form that allowed them to defeat... "Apparently he is not aware that the war began at 41 laughing
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 10 November 2020 09: 42
      0
      And we will remind him
  25. Stas57
    Stas57 18 December 2016 11: 10
    +1
    "... due to the lack of trained commanders, haste in preparation (from three to ten days), poor-quality selection of personnel, poor material and technical support, the overwhelming majority of reconnaissance and sabotage groups did not fulfill the tasks assigned to them, suffered large unjustified losses. Those who survived during this period, after one or two acts of sabotage, had to deal only with their own survival in the future. "
    We will not comment. What can I say against it? To argue about the actions of the guerrilla units of the NKVD? Omsbon? Brigade Kovpaka? Squad "Mitya" (reconnaissance and sabotage residency number 4 / 70 Special Forces troops under the NKVD of the USSR) under the command of D. N. Medvedev? Group Nikolai Kuznetsov?


    wait, wait, kovpak-movpak ....
    What about the Zoe Group?
    And the group of Vera Voloshina?
    Was everything all right there?
  26. nnz226
    nnz226 20 January 2017 13: 34
    0
    Well, don't! Medvedev's squad is right! But there was also a detachment where Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya fought! That the detachment had worked in the rear for several years ?! It was this detachment that was "disposable"! I do not support Steinberg, but there is no need to give a popular picture of the struggle behind enemy lines (in the style of GlavPUR)
  27. Kolaaps
    Kolaaps 25 February 2017 15: 31
    0
    Quote: Gagrid
    first give a definition of what the author means by special forces

    .... Well, that’s right ...
    With me there were 2 of them - sabotage and anti-terrorism .... The tasks are different, the methods are different, the requirements, the scope, the preparation .... and ... and ... - and they were not friends with each other .... Alas, but right ... Compare our Bond James with Colonel Dutch from Predator .... Branderburg-800 and the SS Dirlewanger brigade ...
    Flies separately and cutlets nearby
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 10 November 2020 11: 44
      +3
      "Brandenburg" is the Wehrmacht, no matter what they do, and the Dirlewanger's thugs are the SS, it means not only by their actions, but also by definition, war criminals, what is there to compare ...
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  29. vladcub
    vladcub 10 November 2020 09: 38
    +4
    Off topic. Today is a professional holiday for law enforcement officers.
    Comrades, no matter how they are called: militia, police, the first is closer to me personally, but the essence of the work is the same - maintaining order.
    Health and best wishes to former and current employees.
    Э
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 10 November 2020 11: 25
      +3
      By the way, they did not remember about this professional holiday. It's a pity. All related to the holiday!
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 10 November 2020 11: 40
      +3
      Glory, hello! hi
      I fully subscribe to your congratulations and wishes. I, too, somehow closer to the police, and the police are associated with the white bandage "policeman", not our word, although it was common under the tsarist "pressure". smile
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 10 November 2020 18: 19
        +2
        Good evening. Only now I found time to "drop in" on the site, it was easier to quarantine, work, and then at home: the village.
        1) In fact, Derlenvagen is not the Waffen SS, but the penalties: former poachers, "repentant" anti-fascists. In short, still the same.
        2) "Milisiano" is an armed people, it is somehow more familiar to us, and the police? I will have to ask our encyclopedist what the police originally meant?
        We use words somehow, but sometimes we don't know the meaning of a word.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 10 November 2020 19: 03
          +3
          Police --
          "Comes from Latin politita, then from the ancient Greek πολιτεία" citizenship, politics, state ", then from πόλις" city, state "(goes back to the Proto-Indo-Hebrews * p (o) lH-" fenced-in place "). Russian police - starting from Peter I; borrowed through the Polish polisja or - with a secondary -ii- - from the German Polizei.
          Etymology of the word police "
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          As for the SS-Sonderbrigade Dirlewanger -
          At first it was simply the SS-Sonderkommando Dirlewanger
          - SS punitive unit under the command of Oskar Dirlewanger, recruited from prisoners in German prisons, concentration camps and SS military prisons. The special status of the unit was noted in the fact that since January 1943, by order of Heinrich Himmler, instead of SS runes, its members wore an image of crossed rifles and grenades on their collar tabs. Before that, the Germans who served in the unit wore standard SS zig-runes, and foreigners (Poles, Ukrainians, Croats, Turks, etc.) wore a clean right buttonhole.
          At the end of the war, on the basis of the brigade and various other units, the 36th SS Volunteer Infantry Division (German 36. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS) was created.

          The sleeve insignia of the 36th SS Division.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 10 November 2020 20: 38
            +2
            Kostya, there is no doubt that Derlenvagen is out of the question. Although if you look at the 118th Schutzmannschaft battalion, it is difficult to say who is worse. For me, the latter are still worse: a dither and a defector, and then the battalion commander, I mean Vasyura, he was still humanely shot. For people like him, it is desirable that something like that, as was practiced in the Middle Ages. Then they adored various delights.
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 10 November 2020 20: 38
            +2

            4th SS Motorized Police Division
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 10 November 2020 19: 09
          +3
          In general, it is worth reading the book by Ales Adamovich "The Punishers", there it is rather detailed and practically documented about the Derlivanger gang.
          Based on his book, Adamovich later wrote the script for a very strong and scary film "Come and See".
  30. Free wind
    Free wind 10 November 2020 09: 54
    +1
    And my grandfather served as an urgent in the border troops from 30 to 36, on the Soviet-Polish border, a machine gunner. Tell me, is he not a special forces soldier, unless after 5 years of service, if every day there is combat training and patrolling, or even on alarm. In those years, the Polish border was not very calm, both saboteurs and smugglers climbed, and the locals tried.
  31. Catfish
    Catfish 10 November 2020 11: 35
    +2
    This is the so-called "war for the wells". But we will definitely return to this episode.

    Yes. I would like to come back, there is interest. hi
  32. Undecim
    Undecim 10 November 2020 12: 03
    +6
    Many acquaintances and unfamiliar readers of our publication ask to tell about the famous Soviet special forces
    They demand to give reliable information on one or another issue related to special forces in general or to individual operations in particular.
    Here, the authors, at least on the second attempt, to determine what they mean by "Soviet special forces", that is, about whom they are going to "give reliable information."
    To be precise, formally, one can speak of "Soviet special forces", that is, special-purpose units only since October 1950, when, in accordance with the Directive of the USSR War Minister Vasilevsky, the formation of such units was started.
    If we talk about the Great Patriotic War, then as the Soviet special forces, one can consider the Separate motorized rifle brigade of special purpose of the NKVD of the USSR (OMSBON), the Separate special detachment of the NKGB of the USSR or the 88th separate rifle brigade (OSBR), reconnaissance and sabotage units created under intelligence departments of the front headquarters.
    For some reason, the authors did not mention these units at all, but they remembered about a million Soviet partisans and SMERSH, who have nothing to do with spetsnaz.
    So where is the promised "reliable information" that readers demand? So far, there is no such thing about spetsnaz, except for slogans at the level of the duty political information of the political officer of the platoon.
    But there is unreliable information that the Soviet partisans were mainly supplied from the mainland, although everything was exactly the opposite.
  33. The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 10 November 2020 12: 28
    +1
    SMERSH has already become a special forces too?
  34. ee2100
    ee2100 10 November 2020 12: 59
    0
    Our article is our answer to Mr. Steinberg on his opus "Soviet Special Forces: Ups and Tragedies"
    I haven't read Steiberg, but I condemn it!
    My opinion. It is necessary to answer, but not in this backwater, but at least on TV or a promoted YouTube channel.
    And the topic of special forces during the Second World War is very interesting!
  35. DWG1905
    DWG1905 10 November 2020 13: 06
    +2
    Article vinaigrette. If about special forces, i.e. special intelligence is one thing about counterintelligence another. The author has clearly not been to structures where the portrait of Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya weighs among other heroes. On VO, authors often write articles on topics that they do not understand.
    A question to the people. As a child, I came across a thin book about internationalists. What do you remember about the Spanish pilots who flew for reconnaissance on German captured aircraft? Interestingly, the Messerschmitt 109 that we flew in Spain was lost near Moscow in the winter of 41-42, the Germans were very surprised when they found it. And the most interesting thing there is briefly told about the DRG, which consisted of German prisoners of war. They acted in SS uniform and when they brought their wounded man to the hospital, the doctor drew attention to the absence of a tattoo with a blood group. Maybe someone remembers the name.
    This topic is interesting, I have not met any more materials about the recruitment of Germans.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 November 2020 14: 58
      +2
      And the most interesting thing is briefly told about the DRG, which consisted of German prisoners of war. They acted in SS uniform and when they brought their wounded man to the hospital, the doctor drew attention to the absence of a tattoo with a blood group. Maybe someone remembers the name.


      Hardly prisoners. They are rather internationalists who were not originally members of OMSBON. Whoever was there, even the Vietnamese.

      From Zevelev's book - hatred compressed into thick:

  36. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
    Vladimir Vladimirovich S 10 November 2020 13: 48
    +1
    Please forgive me for Incompetence, but the article (my opinion) is about nothing
  37. parusnik
    parusnik 10 November 2020 17: 22
    +3
    Alexander Staver, Roman Skomorokhov
    ... The archives, after all, a thing, there was a time when Staver and Skomorokhov wrote together .. And now: "Our roads parted and we will not meet by chance" (c)
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 10 November 2020 20: 41
      +2
      Lesha, bravo said it well.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 11 November 2020 19: 18
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      "Our roads parted and we will not meet by chance" (c)

      For ideological or mercantile reasons?
  38. vladcub
    vladcub 10 November 2020 20: 48
    +1
    The article is pretty good, albeit with "jambs". But get old publications from the archive ... It looks like Astra should be fired at them. Let it bite or scratch.
    Comrades, do you mind?
  39. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 11 November 2020 09: 11
    0
    Directive of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) "To Party and Soviet Organizations of Front-line Areas" dated 29 June 1941, No. 624. Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) of 18 July 1941, "On the organization of the struggle in the rear of the German troops." The Order of the Non-Profit Organization of the USSR I.V. Stalin from September 5 of 1942 No. 00189 “On the tasks of the partisan movement”.

    Thanks precisely to the clear and timely, although perhaps somewhat belated response,

    I did not read further. Nauseous. Vileness as a state institution ... Timely but belated ?! Oh you ... Before the war, a system of partisan-special forces defense was built along the western border. And caches were made, and stocks of weapons, and people were prepared by the thousands. But the project was, unfortunately, under the command of Tukhachevsky. Together with Tukhachevsky it was turned off ...
    Comrade Starinov did it practically. Thanks for not touching him at least. And the future partisans were raked into the camps. And the caches were buried. And the warehouses were removed ... Guys, did you guys write THIS together? Have you heard that in the Russian (now apparently Russian) language there was such an outdated word - conscience? However, what am I talking about ...
  40. Doliva63
    Doliva63 11 November 2020 17: 08
    0
    What a mess! It seems that the authors also served in the army. But, probably, it turned out readable laughing
  41. Yuri Chvanov
    Yuri Chvanov Yesterday, 23: 18
    0
    Написать муть и потом ждать опровержений, требуя факты и прочие подробности...
    Так работает современная разведка западных "партнёров" против России.