Military Review

Doctor diesel

79
An extremely important task for the country is the revival of local airlines. The question is open.


In Russia there are more than 28 thousand settlements, which can be reached mainly by air. In the USSR, these addresses were successfully served by a small aviation. But it so happened that the aviation of local airlines (MVL) suffered the most. And the consequences of the crisis of the nineties are still affecting its recovery. Although it is the aviation of the MVL that should solve the problem of transport communications between remote settlements between themselves and with the mainland. It means - to be effective and most importantly - popular, that is, affordable. The rise and development of many regions of the country depend on this.

Older "kids"

It is necessary to revive - at least on a previous scale - the fleet of IAL. By the beginning of the 90-x small aircraft performed about a million flights a year. Over 500 passenger An-2, about 450 L-410 and An-28 carried almost 10 to millions of passengers. At present, passenger traffic has decreased several times. And if the outgoing L-410 are filled with new machines of the same type, then there are only a few dozen of An-2 left in flight operation, the production of its An-3Т turboprop on Omsk Polet was stopped. An-28 also remained a few, and his successor An-38 did not go into the series. At the same time, there was a clear tendency to replenish the fleet with foreign aircraft. It is possible to prevent this only one way - to saturate the MVL with its own ships.

If you omit the financial component, of course, it is very important, then for the successful solution of this task it is necessary to have available the projects and existing technologies, production capacities, engineering and operating potential for their implementation.

In the first position it should be noted that the development from scratch will require much more time and money compared to upgrading the already created machines. And over time, we have tight, because the solution to this problem should not be found tomorrow, and at the latest today.

On the evolutionary path, despite all the difficulties, they went to the SibNIA to them. S.A. Chaplygin. Taking the An-2 and Yak-40 as a basis, the Novosibirsk people are methodically advancing in their modernization and are ready to go far in this direction. They aim to make An-2 and Yak-40 from composite materials. This, in particular, was proposed in the article “The Offspring of the Cornflower”. Earlier, the institute's management stated that it would seek to re-engine and replace the on-board equipment of the Yak-40 fleet that was preserved and suitable for flight operation (about 100 units) and upgrade to 150 – 200 An-2 for two years. The implementation of these plans, in the opinion of SibNIA, will completely close the issue of transportation on local airlines and alleviate the problem for the next five to seven years, allowing for the creation of new cars during this time.

"Batskins" frames

The second and third positions remain open, the last is the key one. It is worth referring to the dramatic fate of the Saratov Aviation Plant, which was busy, among other things, with the production of the Yak-40 and has ceased to exist today.

Doctor diesel


If the Soviet approach “cadres decide everything” is unacceptable for someone, you can recall the words of Henry Ford: “You can take my factories, burn my buildings, but leave me my people and they will restore everything”.

The key link in our situation is and will be the surviving qualified personnel. It makes sense to pay attention to the aircraft repair plants (ARZ) of the Russian Federation and Belarus. It is worth remembering the initiative of Alexander Lukashenko, which he officially launched on 2 on April 2014 of the year. Then, when visiting the 558 ARZ in Baranavichy, the task was to master the production of aircraft in addition to repairing it, as well as expand the range of aircraft units and equipment produced in the country. Lukashenko emphasized: Belarusian products should be focused primarily on the needs of Russia.

Our proposals may form the basis of the Allied People’s Aviation program, the aim of which should be the revival of the MVL fleet. It is necessary, relying primarily on the work of SibNIA to modernize An-2 and Yak-40, to enter into close cooperation with Belarus, whose ARP together with similar Russian enterprises would become the main production sites of this program.

Corn heart

However, another very important question remains open: which engines will be installed on these planes? In the projects of SibNIA, engines from Honeywell (USA) were originally supposed for both An-2 and Yak-40. And this raises strong doubts about obtaining positive results in the future, since the political component has not been removed from the agenda. Even with the complete abolition of Western sanctions, a serious problem may arise from the other side. The future potential president of the United States is determined to have a large-scale revival of his country's industry. For the successful implementation of this project, among other things, it is necessary that energy resources be as cheap as possible. It is for this reason that Trump said in a recent video message: “I’ll lift restrictions that kill jobs in America’s energy production, including offshore energy and coal.” The result of such actions may be a significant reduction in the price of oil, that is, a sensitive decrease in the currency inflows. This will limit the opportunities for the purchase of American engines, and leasing.

Apparently, in connection with this, the Novosibirsk residents switched to the domestic version of the Y-40 re-motorization with AI-222-25 engines (and of a purely Russian production, without cooperation with Ukraine). Note that at the end of 90-x OKB im. A. S. Yakovlev has already considered the possibility of replacing three Ukrainian engines with two American ones.

However, there are open-ended questions on Russian projects of remotorization today. Therefore, it is proposed to consider the possible Ukrainian version of industrial cooperation.

Of course, relations with Kiev are very far from friendly, but you need to think about the future and leave the doors open for that. Readiness for a constructive dialogue was confirmed by Vladimir Putin on September 17 at a political summit in Bishkek. The main thing is to make an imperious decision to start moving in this direction, and our management has already announced this.

If we take as a basis the projects An-2 and Yak-40, then it can be MC-500B-C and AI-222-25, respectively. The first engine - the development of the Cossacks, the second created with their active participation. With regard to MS-500B-S, it should also be said that such a replacement will be possible provided that Motor Sich brings the engine to the horsepower declared by 950 – 1100 in takeoff mode. It should be noted here that the version with MS-500В-С is likely to be preferable to MC-14 previously announced for remotorizing the Antonov machine, since the initial version of MC-500В (helicopter) will become very popular in the near future for rotary-wing machines with take-off mass of 3,5 – 6 tons and MC-500В-С can be built into the well-established high-volume production, and this will reduce the cost.

Where to get horsepower

The situation with the civil engine makes us look for additional options. With regard to aviation MVL worth considering the wider use of aircraft piston engines with the possible connection of the potential of the automotive industry and, probably, the shipbuilding industry.

Since very often the development takes place in a spiral, then workers in the industry need to again pay attention to internal combustion engines (ICE), the best practices obtained today for them or, more strictly, combined power plants.

Piston engines generally have an advantage over aviation gas turbines in terms of fuel consumption, but lose in specific gravities.

To get some idea about the price of this rotation, you should give an example with the Robinson helicopter, which gained popularity in Russia. As a result of the replacement of a piston engine (on the R44 model) with a turboshaft (R66), its price in the United States increased at that time 2,3 times - from 348 thousand dollars to 798 thousand.

But first you need to decide on the fuel. The fact is that now for small aircraft there is an urgent need to supply Russian gasoline. Domestic producers, and here, first of all, it is necessary to note the Omsk refinery, they are just starting to unwind the stopped flywheel of this production. Therefore, aircraft operators are forced to focus primarily on imports, and in the future, apparently, on jet fuel. At the same time, the latter can be used in ICE with compression ignition (diesel engines) and in ICE with spark ignition, as was the case in the first half of the 20th century, but from which they retreated, although the Voronezh OKBM is working on this option on its new “stars” DV series.

Diesels are more structurally more complicated than spark ignition internal combustion engines and are superior in weight, but more economical. In our time, we are witnessing a second evolutionary turn of their development. The first stage was completed in 20 – 40-ies, when the American “Packard”, the “Yumo” diesel engines of the PDP scheme of the German company “Junkers” and the Soviet AF-30 were introduced into the flight practice. It should be said that diesel engines were fixed in Germany in hydroaviation, where they were installed on the Dornier and Blom and Foss flying boats, since they required a large radius of action. At present, modern models of such engines have appeared in the West - German, Austrian, French. Relatively active work is also underway in Russia: Agat-D with horsepower up to 300, RED A05 V6 and RED A03 V12 on 350 and 500 horsepower, respectively, were created together with German partners - RED, headed by Vladimir Reikhlin from Russia. In addition, the leadership of UZGA, which is part of the Oboronprom corporation, previously considered the option of licensed production of AE300. And it was supposed to create, together with the Austrian side, more powerful modifications.

If we talk about aviation MVL, then the problem of its motorization can be solved with the help of piston engines operating on kerosene and gasoline. In this case, in our opinion, it is not necessary to limit the power of 500 horsepower. MVL demand aircraft designed for transportation and 10 – 12, as on the An-2, and 20 passengers, as on the L-410. To do this, you need to create an engine with a capacity of about a thousand horsepower for the updated An-2, and for the 20-local aircraft you will need two installations of this power.

It requires advanced development and technology that is and most importantly - mastered on an industrial scale in the West. And we should try to get them, but for this you need to show first of all the political will, extending a helping hand to the Volkswagen company, which is actively drowned for cooperating with Russia. We need to create a production of aviation reciprocating engines on a high-tech basis - to launch a motor-building plant in cooperation with this German company, the main share of which the Russian side would have to finance in the face of oil and gas producers. The appeal to them is due to the fact that if, in the practical plan of the implementation of this project, we are talking about the creation of an aircraft diesel, then in the future this could be a gas engine.

We are convinced that among the Russian top managers, the majority are not just statists, but there are also those who are not indifferent to the fate of domestic aviation.

Since there may be a barrier in the form of anti-Russian sanctions in the way of the practical implementation of this proposal, it is proposed to create and launch the main production at the Minsk Motor Plant, carrying out a detour political maneuver and simultaneously contributing to further strengthening the foundations of our Union State.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/34224
79 comments
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 December 2016 07: 18
    +6
    A thousand-horsepower aircraft diesel engine for small aircraft is a very ambitious project. Gas turbine ones are much "closer" in terms of implementation, and, which is important, they operate well at REDUCED temperatures, which are very relevant in Russia most of the time of the year.
    It is possible that the specific fuel consumption of diesels is lower, but when comparing with modern gas turbine engines, it’s not so radical.
    1. VOLCHOXURAL
      VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 08: 00
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      A thousand-horsepower aircraft diesel engine for small aircraft is a very ambitious project. Gas turbine ones are much "closer" in terms of implementation, and, which is important, they operate well at REDUCED temperatures, which are very relevant in Russia most of the time of the year.
      It is possible that the specific fuel consumption of diesels is lower, but when comparing with modern gas turbine engines, it’s not so radical.

      The article also cited an example with helicopters that gas turbine engines are many times more expensive, both in the initial cost and in operation, if there is a well-functioning production and delivery system of high-quality kerosene, on which piston aircraft diesel engines operate, there will be no problems with low temperatures! But long distances, even on regional routes in our country, are a very important factor, and here they are already much more economical and therefore cheaper, as well as longer piston flights, a more attractive picture.
      1. VOLCHOXURAL
        VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 08: 15
        +2
        And at the expense of a thousand-strong aviation diesel engine, our engineers successfully built powerful aviation diesel engines even during World War II (ep-2, for example, by the way, the point of this was to significantly increase the flight range, due to their economy). So, our designers have enough experience, so there’s no way to wait!
        1. Kenneth
          Kenneth 17 December 2016 11: 18
          +1
          And where is the heyday of diesel aircraft engines. Although of course, the potential market is now large. You can buy a license.
        2. Rus2012
          Rus2012 17 December 2016 18: 26
          +3
          Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
          our engineers during the Great Patriotic War successfully built powerful diesel engines

          Quote: Kenneth
          where is the heyday of diesel aircraft engines

          ... alas and ahhh - there weren’t and there were no worked out and reliable aircraft diesel engines! And it seems they will not, and throughout the global aviation industry ...

          By the way, the main reason for the poor efficiency of diesel EP-2 (as well as Pe-8) - were diesel engines. Then, all diesel Pe-8, with current repairs - was transferred back to gasoline ...

          We have one author, A.N. Bear wrote a lot on this subject, and on historical docks -
          http://www.airpages.ru/ru/er2_ds.shtml
          1. VOLCHOXURAL
            VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 19: 31
            +1
            Quote: Rus2012
            ... alas and ahhh - there weren’t and there were no worked out and reliable aircraft diesel engines! And it seems they will not, and in the entire global aviation industry ... l

            I have to disagree with you. Something you made a completely funeral conclusion. I at one time was very interested in this topic and studied it enough, not only according to the work of one individual author. At the expense of EP-2, he was brought up and showed himself well! Of course there were problems, but they were resolved. The only problem that remained for him was the poor reception in terms of speed, since the turbine gives boost only from medium revolutions, from low he did not spin well. Today this problem is solved by installing an additional compressor with a V-belt drive, plus an air receiver - a drive, instead of a simple intake manifold, that's all, the last problem has been solved. As you see, nothing beyond the natural is needed. I’m sure, if it weren’t for the general reactivation of aviation, as a result of which all piston engines, both diesel and gasoline, were relegated to the background, then piston aircraft diesel engines would be very common now and would not have any problems.
            Moreover, I think that they will still come back, everything new - well forgotten old! Their low cost and high efficiency we still need!
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 17 December 2016 20: 54
              +2
              Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
              ... not only by the work of one individual author.
              ...
              At the expense of EP-2, he was brought up and performed well!


              You could study EP-2 as you wish.
              However, its combat use showed very insignificant results.
              And the whole reason was diesel SU. Like the Pe-8.

              The author, by the way, is an expert on combat use of the Air Force, and shoveled ALL existing documents on testing and use, both of Ep and Pe as part of .DA during the Second World War (real LI reports, combat reports ...).
              According to him, diesel EP-2 had a few successfully completed sorties ...
              1. Rus2012
                Rus2012 17 December 2016 21: 20
                +1
                Long-range bomber Ep-2. A plane of unfulfilled hopes
                Authors: Alexander Medved, Dmitry Khazanov
                Excerpts -
                In April 1945, two regiments of "ers" - the 327 and 329 ths - took part in the hostilities. Both regiments made their first sortie on 7 on April 1945. On that day, the 17 most trained crews took part in a massive day raid by Soviet long-range bomber aircraft on Koenigsberg.
                .
                When performing combat missions, there were the following cases of failure of the material part:
                1. Due to the breakdown of the engine connecting rod during flight to the target, one crew made an emergency landing outside the airfield.
                2. When returning from the target due to a broken water pump motor hose, one crew landed at the Rastenburg airfield.
                3. One crew could not drop bombs over the target and returned with bombs.
                4. On one plane, the landing gear fairing was ripped off.
                A cursory examination of the material after the flight revealed:
                1. On three engines the heads of the TN-12B fuel pumps burst.
                2. Oil coolers burst on two engines and flowed.
                3. On one motor, a rotor blade turned.
                General comments on the flight properties of the EP-2 aircraft:
                but). Take-off was carried out with a flight weight of 16 000 – 16 200 kg with a bomb load of 1100 – 1300 kg in the bomb compartments; bombs in caliber 100, 250 and 500 kg.
                The duration of the run of the aircraft was 35 – 38 s. To climb 20 m, airplanes traveled up to 3 km.
                The aircraft is sensitive to right crosswinds, and with a right crosswind with a speed of more than 5 m / s, takeoff is almost impossible.
                b) Flying at a speed of less than 270 km / h on the instrument is tedious, since at these speeds the plane does not listen well to the rudders.
                at). ACh-30Б motors shake at speeds below 1700 over the entire range of heights.
                d). Due to the lack of a fuel flow meter, the pilot is deprived of the opportunity to determine the operating modes of the engine.
                This report was compiled on the basis of a preliminary survey of flight crews and after a cursory inspection of the material part.
                The materials of the first sorties are studied and processed, at the end of the processing I will additionally inform you.
                The first combat sorties on the EP-2 aircraft showed that the ACh-30B motor and the propeller-engine group of the aircraft have serious defects, as well as flight modes that have not been studied on the aircraft, and materials have not been developed for training pilots to better perform combat flights. ”
                ...
                Subsequently, the crews of the 327 and 329 air regiments flew to bomb the Zeelovsky Heights and Berlin. In total, they made 14 and 61 combat sorties, respectively.
                Combat losses were small: one plane was hit by anti-aircraft guns and made an emergency landing on its territory, the second plane crashed during take-off due to shelling by a group of Bandera. Four more vehicles were damaged by anti-aircraft artillery fire.
                All other air regiments of EP-2 from the 18 Guards. dietary supplements and other compounds of the 18-th VA did not take part in the hostilities during the Great Patriotic War.
                Of course, the role of the "ers" of the "second edition" in the war should be recognized as purely symbolic.
                For comparison: only in March of 1945, the 18 aircrafts made 5126 sorties (of which 1864 on the Il-4, 1846 on the B-25, 1224 on the Li-2 and 192 on the A-20G).
                ...
                On 24 of August 1945, the GKO decree ceased acceptance of EP-2. This decision was predetermined by the negative results of military trials ending in the 18 bad.
                ...
                in general, the attitude of the crews towards the car was quite benevolent. I liked that there were two pilots, which means less fatigue in long flights. I liked powerful defensive weapons, a large bomb load, strength and solid construction.


                Fully - http://coollib.com/b/329301/read
          2. Niccola Mack
            Niccola Mack 18 December 2016 14: 02
            +1
            ... alas and ahhh - there weren’t and there were no worked out and reliable aircraft diesel engines! And it seems they will not, and throughout the global aviation industry ...

            And the German Jumo 205 was unreliable and not worked out?
            How did the German hydroaviation fly off the whole war on it?
            And then the Germans managed to force it (Jumo-207B-3) and installed Ju.86R on a high-altitude scout who climbed as much as 14 meters.
            And in 41 with impunity he flew over Moscow.
            There were certainly problems - but at a constant load, he showed himself perfectly - just such loads in this case are required.
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 18 December 2016 20: 38
              0
              Quote: Nikkola Mac
              And the German Jumo 205 was unreliable and not worked out?

              ... this is rather an exception to the rule, confirming the general pattern - where in the world is the mass distribution of aircraft diesel engines ?!
    2. Vasek Trubachev
      Vasek Trubachev 17 December 2016 14: 58
      +4
      An-2 piston engine record holder for the incredible RATTER! Who flew in the An-2, will not lie! In terms of noise, the diesel engine will, if not inferior, surpass it very likely! Diesel - this is a projection with an eye to drank budget funds. There have already been such projects in the history of the USSR and in the modern, such as trotters, etc. All this construction of pink castles will disappear by itself when the release of the line of its theater is adjusted.
      1. 52
        52 19 December 2016 16: 56
        +1
        I totally agree. Moreover, for fans of thermal visibility, the diesel exhaust is hotter than a gas engine.
  2. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 17 December 2016 07: 29
    +1
    The article is correct and necessary, thanks hi but, the main thing now is to get down to business, because if you don’t start working with your hands and not with your tongue, we will lose the aircraft industry as such completely.
  3. Comrade Stalin
    Comrade Stalin 17 December 2016 09: 26
    +4
    I don’t understand, is it really impossible to create a thousand-horsepower engine with 95 gasoline? Diesel for aviation is categorically unacceptable, since diesel fuel is divided into summer, winter and "Arctic". Russia is the country with the coldest climate in the world, and it should be taken into account that planes will fly to northern villages like Batagay, Oymyakon and other villages, where it is below -60 in winter. At temperatures of -50 and below, even the "Arctic" freezes.
    1. VOLCHOXURAL
      VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 09: 53
      +5
      Quote: Comrade_Stalin
      I don’t understand, is it really impossible to create a thousand-strong engine on 95th gasoline? A diesel engine is categorically unacceptable

      Dear, your complete lack of knowledge in mechanics prevents you from discussing such issues !!! Piston aviation diesels work, generally, not on automobile diesel fuel, but on aviation kerosene, laughing so if anything, I’m informing you as a mechanic !!! yes
      1. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 10: 19
        +1
        and what is wrong with automotive diesel fuel for aircraft diesel? the turbocharger completely "picks up" the necessary air cubes for a diesel engine at altitudes, remember at least a T-62 in the Hindikush region, because the altitude is almost 4 km above sea level, and not that, 45 tons of diesel phal the aircraft is the main echelon of visota (4-5 km)
        1. VOLCHOXURAL
          VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 12: 24
          +1
          Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
          and what is wrong with automotive diesel fuel for aircraft diesel? the turbocharger completely "picks up" the necessary air cubes for a diesel engine at altitudes, remember at least a T-62 in the Hindikush region, because the altitude is almost 4 km above sea level, and not that, 45 tons of diesel phal the aircraft is the main echelon of visota (4-5 km)

          Yes, no ... for an average trunk of 4-5 km in Isota is not enough. And above, it’s not the Arctic in the tanks that can freeze, therefore it’s safer to use lightweight kerosene compared to ordinary diesel fuel, it is more resistant to low temperatures.
          But for collective farmers, such as a corncracker, you can pour ordinary diesel fuel completely, they certainly do not climb huge Isots. yes
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 13: 39
            +1
            TB-7 bomber taking off on May 19, 1942 from an airfield near Moscow. The crew commander was the pilot Endel Puueep. He was to deliver to London the Minister for Foreign Affairs of the USSR Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Molotov.
            as you know, the TB-7 had AM-34 engines with a central turbocharger (special), but the engines were AM-34. and the enti engines just "ate" a surrogate with an octane number of 78, evil tongues say that the flight was almost 13 km above the surface !!!, so maybe about the collective farmers are you in vain?
            1. VOLCHOXURAL
              VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 14: 50
              +1
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              the TB-7 bomber had AM-34 engines so what about the collective farmers is it that you got in vain ????

              Got excited ??? fool What are you talking about?
              Do you, dear, generally know how to read carefully? request And here is the gasoline TB-7 ??? fool I wrote about the diesel engine, and you told me about something else, I told you about Thomas, and you told me about the city.
              I wrote about jet diesel because it runs on the same kerosene as turbo screw (fan) engines of airliners. For them, at the aerodromes, you do not need to organize your own, separate gas station service with gasoline and you can refuel at any, though large, though not very, aerodrome.
              Gasoline pistons have nothing to do with it.
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 18: 57
                +1
                And here is the gasoline TB-7 ???
                besides that for low-purity gasoline 78 the viscosity is the same as for diesel fuel, and at an altitude above 10 km the consistency will be the same,
                you are also inattentive, I actually put emphasis on a multi-fuel tank engine ..... and not on the fact that something new is needed there to invent something like Charomsky
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 17 December 2016 10: 43
        0
        Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
        Piston aviation diesels work, generally, not on automobile diesel fuel, but on aviation kerosene, so if that, I tell you as a mechanic !!!

        And what's so great ..........................
        .
        1. VOLCHOXURAL
          VOLCHOXURAL 17 December 2016 12: 10
          0
          Quote: APASUS
          Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
          Piston aviation diesels work, generally, not on automobile diesel fuel, but on aviation kerosene, so if that, I tell you as a mechanic !!!

          And what's so great ..........................
          .

          Yes, even so laughing What air, what diesel cars work the same way, both on kerosene and diesel fuel, at worst. Anyway, the principle of ignition of a combustible mixture is the same - compression + temperature, and the degree of compression is the same. yes
  4. UVB
    UVB 17 December 2016 09: 56
    +4
    By the beginning of the 90s, small aircraft carried out about a million flights a year.
    In the 60-70s, Lugansk was connected by air with all regional centers of the region, and this is with a microscopic territory compared to the Siberian regions. My favorite attraction was a flight to relatives on the An-2. Moreover, the ticket price was the same as in the soft bus - 3 rubles.
  5. Crimean partisan 1974
    Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 10: 12
    +1
    why not shove a V-2 MS multi-fuel tank diesel engine into an An-84 civilian aircraft, because the parameters are not too different from the legendary ASh-82, but it can “eat” any surrogate, thus it would be a dual-purpose engine, this is not bad it would be
    1. parafoiler
      parafoiler 17 December 2016 14: 56
      0
      No one will allow to pour any shnyag into the tanks of an aircraft, no matter how omnivorous the engine of this aircraft ...
      1. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 19: 35
        +1
        No one will allow in LA tanks ...
        and this is not necessary, it’s enough to pour what is available in this region, it is normal when the aircraft uses multi-fuel, depending on what is available
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 17 December 2016 18: 45
      +1
      Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
      in a civilian aircraft like An-2 multi-fuel tank diesel V-84 MS, because the parameters are not too different from the legendary ASH-82

      ... are very different!
      Especially in terms of monotonous load. Land engines, as a rule, are loaded integrally at no more than 40-50% of the maximum. In the air - 70% - cruising for hours ...
      Therefore, the stone flower does not come out. Dieseluga is crumbled, or it becomes too heavy ...
      1. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 19: 28
        +1
        even I didn’t notice this in the tank biathlon, didn’t I alone notice this ????
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 17 December 2016 20: 38
          0
          Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
          even I didn’t notice this in the tank biathlon, didn’t I alone notice this ????

          ... if you have an "eye diamond" - without devices it determines the load of the engine, then this does not mean that the specialists manage in this way :)))))))))))))))))))

          Here is what they write -
          Comparison of the use of power of ground and aircraft power plants:

          - at maximum mode. Let's take motors of the same power. The aircraft engine can operate at "maximum" from 3 to 15 minutes. And the car? There is usually no information here. An ordinary car rarely "runs" with full load, even in acceleration mode. If you squeeze the gas pedal to the floor and hold it at Max speed for 5 ... 10 minutes, then, in my opinion, the engine will either boil or jam. If in doubt, the caustic reader can easily check this assumption on his own car. It seems that the comparison of motors in terms of maximum power should be done by reducing the power of the automobile engine indicated in the prospectus by 15 ... 20%.
          - on cruise mode. The power of the aircraft engine in this case is 60 ... 80% of the maximum, but for a typical automobile? On average, a car consumes 20 ... 30% of its maximum power. The real power during continuous operation can be even higher, it depends on the quality of a particular motor, but one can hardly expect indicators comparable to aviation. We will consider this question open. Comparison of flight and driving cycles of aircraft and automobile engines clearly demonstrates the high "load" of the former.


          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 18 December 2016 10: 39
            +1
            strange, why does the graph have amplitude for a car? I do it for what, for example, I stoked 140 km per hour on my "something" for half an hour. (this is from point A to point B the road allows), and so constantly if it happens to get on this route, no amplitudes, the trigger is in the polic and half an hour, that is, the 1.2-liter engine threshes up to five thousand rpm, that is, with the one provided by you the schedule is even wrong, there are still a lot of examples, I can print if
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 18 December 2016 20: 23
              0
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              strange, why does the graph have amplitude for a car? What is this for me, for example, I stoked 140 km per hour on my "something" for half an hour

              ... "The trouble is, if the shoemaker starts to bake the pies, And the cake-maker will wear the boots" (c) I. A. Krylova

              Disassemble -


              ... and this is overclocking current, and it’s current in terms of speed, and not real shaft power ...
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 19 December 2016 11: 27
                +1
                Well, who is that fireman up to 7000 rpm on the first ?????? obviously not on the VAZ 2101, on the spear already at 5000 rpm the engine is going to be scammed, I asked you in the previous graph, why ampleuda, I gave an example that half an hour on "full throttle", what is the amplitude, well, or else, what amplitude can the AC-4,0-40 (Ural-5557) -9VR have when it presses for hours with all one hundred meters of the water column for a long time 3-6 hours ?????
                1. Rus2012
                  Rus2012 20 December 2016 18: 37
                  0
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  Well who is so stumbling to 7000 about per minute on the first ??????

                  ... you didn't even know that ?!

                  As a rule, more or less water droplets during acceleration push to the cutoff! And they switch to the pederach’s trail with him. Manufacturers cut off the speed set at -500rpm. from the maximum possible. The above chart is something like the engine of a modern foreign car (VAG groups, or XXX).

                  When you say that you "vomit" for hours at 140 km / h. - you're not right. With "instrumental 140" - your average speed is no more than 100 km / h. (Brake at intersections, "vomit" for quiet chases, trudge uphill ... - that is, the speed / load is variable, according to the profile of the track and obstacles ). Example - on the boardroom, see the average speed. In general, we have it no more than 60 km / hour. Only on the highway can it approach 100-110.
                  And yet, when you go to your 140km / hour, look at the tachometer - at what speed the engine turns. I assure you, not on 6500 all the time! 6500 happens - during acceleration, overtaking, i.e. not always and constantly.
                  Accordingly, the motor drives underloaded.

                  With airplanes, everything is not so!
                  Example - passenger (watermelon, honey, even Tu) - cf. speed - 700km / hour. Cruising speed - 70-80% of the nominal value constantly (and for hours! _).
                  About the same for piston: 5-7 thousand meters of height, cruising speed 300-500) ...
                  1. Crimean partisan 1974
                    Crimean partisan 1974 23 December 2016 10: 20
                    0
                    Well then, a more significant argument, the operating time of the PNS-110 diesel engine 2D-12B with a full capacity of 100 liters per second at maximum loads in time is not limited, stopping it only to change or top up the lubricant, and now practice filling the Severokrymsky Channel for supplying Theodosius and the City of Kerch in March 2014, blocked by water supply from the Dnieper junta, using two PNS110 was carried out alternately after 7-8 hours of one of the units along two highways from a unit of 125 mm with a water intake from GK-22 (Salgir river), and so two weeks until a stationary pumping unit was installed, and the Karasu riverbed was not wrapped in the CCM, from the personal archive, one of the PNS110 when supplying water along two highways
                    1. Rus2012
                      Rus2012 23 December 2016 17: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                      at maximum loads in time it is not limited, stopping it only for changing or topping up lubricant,

                      ... and now answer the question yourself - is this diesel capable of lifting anything into the air? With itself, of course ...
                      Similarly, all the huge powerful marine-marine diesel engines ...

                      PS: They are essentially designed and optimized for ONE MODE - for THEIR nominal load with a long and long life. Which in no way is their maximum load. That is, in fact, these engines can work with a double-triple load - but very good. short time!
                      With all this, at the same time, the specific mass indicators at their creation stood at the 3 or 4 place in comparison with the economy, maintainability, price ...

                      In the same way, an 300-strong ground (let’s Kamazky) engine as a ship (or stationary) can be operated for a very long time in a deformed mode - as an 180-200 is strong for a constant long-term load.
                      If you put it on, say, an airplane, then it must be 300 strong at take-off (no more than 10 minutes) and no more than 180 strong at cruising near the ground, with an increase in altitude, the power will decrease proportionally. For example, at the height of 1000 meters - 90l.s .. Whether he will be able to raise anything at the same time is a big question.
                      Now you understand?
                      1. Rus2012
                        Rus2012 23 December 2016 17: 47
                        0
                        ...and further

                        Were there applications of aircraft engines, say on the ground?
                        There were and are!
                        For example, before the war and during the war: on the BT-7, T-34 tanks - they put the aviation M-17. Naturally, after removal from aircraft and kapitalki.
                        For, otherwise it was too expensive. Aircraft engine, approximately 5-10 times more expensive than similar ground power. Naturally, they were set up by derating by turns to 500l.s. (with aviation 700) for 2-3 a multiple increase in ground resource.

                        Wait, aviation "turbines" are also used as drives of oil and gas compressor stations. Naturally removed from aircraft and after cap ...

                        Very interesting from this point of view, the engines "Formula 1".
                        They are not much different from their "serial" brothers, installed on premium and sports cars. Besides the price, careful assembly, frequent maintenance, resource and TURNOVER! As a rule, move "formulas" - there are 3 races. Turnovers under 20 thousand. "Serial" - no more than 10 thousand. The load characteristics are similar to what I have given above. Except maybe the speeds and the number of gears ...

                        Can I put them on a plane? Theoretically - YES! Having recounted in terms of parameters, first of all, reliability, then load ... And having introduced some changes in equipment (duplicated ignition system, two-speed turbine ... other trifles) and in parameters - reduced speed and changed the thermal loading mode ...
                        BUT PRICE !!!
  6. avt
    avt 17 December 2016 10: 33
    +4
    Well, let's look at what the article itself is about. The fact that the Small Aviation, which DAM confuses with the Regional, in comparison with the times of the USSR, is missing from us - a medical fact. Further, the authors lobby in fact as production sites for at least remotorization
    The key link in our situation is and will be the surviving qualified personnel. It makes sense to pay attention to the aircraft repair plants (ARZ) of the Russian Federation and Belarus. It is worth remembering the initiative of Alexander Lukashenko, which he officially launched on 2 on April 2014 of the year. Then, when visiting the 558 ARZ in Baranavichy, the task was to master the production of aircraft in addition to repairing it, as well as expand the range of aircraft units and equipment produced in the country. Lukashenko emphasized: Belarusian products should be focused primarily on the needs of Russia.
    Well, logical. However, the question is different. This is practically the budget line of the Russian Federation, and Russia generally has a UAC for this piece of the budget, and the question is - How do the authors see the real interaction between the government of the Russian Federation, the UAC and the main holder of the Belarusian factories-Baska? Seriously, you think you have a hundred options for administrative levers a la MAZ- KAMAZ will not be ?? Guys ! USSR State Planning NO! As well as the USSR Cabinet of Ministers, in order to bark and punch on the table - to execute, but Butsk’s frivolous gazpadar and again the Kremlin is not a decree for him. This is the first actually. Of course, the mind gave us wings of steel arms. But here is a fiery motor - a headache for centuries since the birth of aviation in the Empire. What is actually proposed in the article?
    If we take as a basis the projects An-2 and Yak-40, then it can be MC-500B-C and AI-222-25, respectively. The first engine - the development of the Cossacks, the second created with their active participation. With regard to MS-500B-S, it should also be said that such a replacement will be possible provided that Motor Sich brings the engine to the horsepower declared by 950 – 1100 in takeoff mode. It should be noted here that the version with MS-500В-С is likely to be preferable to MC-14 previously announced for remotorizing the Antonov machine, since the initial version of MC-500В (helicopter) will become very popular in the near future for rotary-wing machines with take-off mass of 3,5 – 6 tons and MC-500В-С can be built into the well-established high-volume production, and this will reduce the cost.
    wassat As I understand it - Zadornov fell ill and instead of him they decided to make Mink's mink laugh !? Well, it turned out garnish about Sich - set-off. Although it would be possible to continue to humor - we will transport everyone to Belarus to repair plants .... even those who are in Russiabully But there is still an assumption
    Relatively active work is also underway in Russia: Agat-D with a capacity of up to 300 horsepower, RED A05 V6 and RED A03 V12 for 350 and 500 horsepower, respectively, were created jointly with German partners - the company RED, headed by Vladimir Raikhlin, a native of Russia. In addition, the management of the UZGA, a member of the Oboronprom corporation, had previously considered the licensed production option AE300. Moreover, it was supposed to create, together with the Austrian side, more powerful modifications.
    But the key here is that you know what? So UZGA. If you missed something, it is that Airbashelikopter Lomom entered tightly in the Urals with turntables, so much so that he got into the sanitation program and the sale of flight watches, naturally with the delivery of gas turbine engines, Russia also ordered its analogue, but he will leave the drawings, give then God, in about 4 years. That is, the Cluster for assembling something will be in the Urals, well, in the Czech Republic with the back they bought. Why am I all this? Yes to the first announced by me. But father, and this is precisely his topic in the realities of Belarus, you have to try hard for an administrative resource to get stuck in the budget line of Russia through the line of placing an order for small aircraft. And so, with the exception of the latter - there are no problems, of course you can assemble airplanes at repair plants and even more so Remotorize.
  7. Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 17 December 2016 11: 21
    +2
    read the article. understood the main meaning: STATE, GIVE MONEY!
    and we’ll make such an engine that all the other engines, by comparison, will not have engines, but there’s only one laugh,
    And also the STATE, GIVE MONEY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF SMALL AVIATION!
    and we will make such an aviation that all other small aviation, not aviation will be but laughter.
    All these articles, projects with clever words, have one purpose to stick to the state budget in order to get products that are not competitive without the protection of the state, but are very expensive, at the same time, to make friends. lovers and relatives, and become a leader himself, with a little tired but wise eyes that cares for Russia, thinks about the people.
    I wonder who the authors are, they could at least develop something themselves. that they could be trusted, but most likely theorists.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 December 2016 12: 39
      0
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      All these articles are drafts with clever words, have one purpose to stick to the state budget

      It's not so simple ...
      Here, for example, how many dozens of times the cost of the aviation component of forest protection increased with the forced transition from the An-2 to helicopters? For a couple of orders?

      And after all, fashionable drones will not solve the problem. Because they cannot carry the squad of fire paratroopers. Here it is such a thing, that a dozen people can put it out right now, in an hour they will put out a hundred, and in two hours - a few hundred with equipment. That is, efficiency can safely be equated with huge savings
  8. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 17 December 2016 11: 39
    +2
    If you omit the financial component, of course, very important,

    You can not omit it, it is the most important. The USSR simply subsidized flights of small aircraft, which were great unprofitable despite almost no fuel price. But the article as a whole is good and the topic is just a hot one. What makes a country successfully developing? Transport connectivity.
    The ability to quickly and cheaply deliver goods from one point to another determines the pace and other indicators of economic development almost completely. Russia grew up on its rivers. The ability to transfer cargo on ships along these priceless arteries has gathered the country into a single whole. And in winter, the river is an excellent highway with a smooth surface, along which thousands of sleds easily go ...
    The United States has invested monstrous funds on the Pan American Highways. And decade after decade, they take off the regular profit. And they are developing aviation in their own way, moreover, comprehensively, smartly and for a long time. What are we doing? As usual. We are losing.
    At the beginning of the 2000, we sold patents for slotted gratings to Americans for insignificant pennies, with which we could build flying warehouses. Literally. Aircraft with carrying capacity up to 500 tons and above. Americans wisely put patents on the shelf - they are not going to swoop down to rebuild their most powerful aviation industry, why? In addition, their economies are more marine, they are actively using sea vessels, so a sharp increase in land transportation is not strategically beneficial for them.
    Our country could at any moment become the leader of the world airship building. The airship is beyond competition in terms of convenience and cost of transportation of goods, especially to hard-to-reach places, which we have not measured. What is our attitude towards airship building? All suggestions on it cause ... laughter. The mental abilities of those laughing are clearly not too different from birch logs, only laughter is released in very high offices. What is not surprising, we have such traditions - people get into high offices not for reason and not for skillful work.
    Alas. The only thing we do is to drastically (critically necessary for us) increase transport connectivity - we are putting elementary order on paved roads. Good. It's good. But how would it be softer ... In general, this is not just not enough. Once again, we lose, not even trying to enter the fray. What will we pay for the loss? What, again by hunger, deprivation, and even blood? How did it get ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 December 2016 12: 50
      +3
      Quote: Mikhail3
      What is our attitude towards airship building? All suggestions on it cause ... laughter. The mental abilities of those laughing are clearly not too different from birch logs, only laughter is released in very high offices

      Airship building, in principle, can remove part of the load from the space industry.
      Now the French (the "space" branch of the famous weapons manufacturer Thales Alenia Space) are developing a high-altitude (20 km) airship capable of performing the functions of low-orbit satellites. A year in orbit, maintenance, continued work.

      1. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 13: 50
        +2
        conducting a thing is certainly interesting, but it’s not without BUT, the 1st danger of demolition at heights of 2-3 km from the instability of the atmosphere. 2nd is leaks of matter due to some unforeseen damage to the camera body, and 3rd, for high-altitude workers, is icing, icing is the most dangerous phenomenon for airships, so let the French flag in their hands, they’re bold, they’ve already torn with misrals, now with airships
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 December 2016 14: 27
          0
          Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
          1st hazard of demolition at altitudes of 2-3 km from the instability of the atmosphere

          I kind of wrote about 20 km, and not about two
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 19: 08
            +2
            I kind of wrote about 20 km, and not about two

            after the tropopause, which varies depending on longitude, it is the same for both 2 km and 20 km, so everything is normal, it’s strange how you didn’t have a question on the second and third points
        2. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 18 December 2016 11: 19
          0
          The truck does not need to climb 2-3 km. The problem of leaks is not solved too complicated and not so expensive. The high-altitude workers are completely useless to us.
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 18 December 2016 11: 34
            +1
            it’s not about trucks, but about passenger transportation, here there are just three main threats that I have identified,
            "The problem of leaks is not too difficult to solve and not so expensive." - this problem is not solvable in principle, since there is still no material capable of holding 100 percent of a hundred hydrogen or helium, then the operation of this air in passenger transportation has a huge degree risk, who will take it?
            1. Mikhail3
              Mikhail3 18 December 2016 17: 19
              0
              Why drag passengers two kilometers or more? Besides, passenger transportation for airships is the tenth thing. The airship is a universal crane for cargo. You may not carry anyone at all, but goods ... find on the network photos from the roads along which they carry goods to the Power of Siberia ...
              This problem ... learn better. Go to school. The airship is filled with helium. Helium is fluid, so they feed the airship with hydrogen - hydrogen is cheap as sand. This continues until the moment when the helium-hydrogen mixture can become fundamentally explosive. Then you need to add helium. Helium is monstrously difficult to transport (although our country has solved this problem), but in the case of an airship, it does not matter. He himself arrives at the "gas station".
              All these processes are simple, technological, long mastered, can be easily taken into account in technical and financial planning. Given the development of modern technologies in the production of various materials, shells and other means, it is not difficult to solve the problem of cylinder icing. Student task, think about how to do it, to warm up.
              The risk is about the same, or even less (for an airship to land in an emergency, any clearing may or may not be suitable ... but the plane will certainly have a cover, no options) than with air travel. The problem is - "who will do this?"
              Anyone who puts the interests of the country and its future above personal career and financial risk. That is yes. To find such people at our tops is almost impossible. That's an ambush so an ambush ...
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 19 December 2016 11: 05
                +1
                Why drag passengers two kilometers or more?
                well, here you are again twenty-five, the proposal was for passenger traffic, although there are huge risks with freight
                hydrogen - hydrogen is cheap as sand.
                yeah, it’s so cheap that it’s as much as 1000 rubles per cubic meter, but if it’s the purest one, it’s not like 3000 rubles, there’s no friend, it’s not cheap, and what’s the infrastructure ...
                To find such people at our tops is almost impossible.
                and whether it is necessary to look for them, because many newly-minted projects are first done by enthusiasts, and only then they seek funds necessarily indicating risks, capitalism, so it’s a drawback to him,
                and so, I personally do not mind the airship, but there are more risks than in classical aviation
                1. Mikhail3
                  Mikhail3 19 December 2016 13: 44
                  0
                  Getting hydrogen from water by electrolysis is cheap. Plus oxygen, the thing is quite commercial. With large volumes, the cost of hydrogen is negligible. Infrastructure for airships is thousands of times cheaper than that for airplanes. No landing strip needed. Refueling traction engines is possible with ordinary gasoline, methane is possible, its volume is many times lower than the plane. And so on. Capitalism, its shtob ...
                  1. Crimean partisan 1974
                    Crimean partisan 1974 19 December 2016 19: 33
                    +1
                    Getting hydrogen from water by electrolysis is cheap. ???????
                    2.3 watts per hour when receiving one liter of GAS of hydrogen !!!! thus obtaining a cube of hydrogen by electrolysis, it is necessary to spend 2300 W, that is 2.3 kW, but this is a surface calculation, but what to do with the base after the flow (after all, as you know, Ndva O does not participate in electrolysis in its pure form, put on salt), no, the conductors will expensive, and unreliable, better tank engine on the An-2, this unit can do everything, if the crew lied was sober. so help, of the more than 400 accidents associated with the An-2, it’s a booze, so slightly increase the efficiency of access to III’s flights ... everything will be normal
                    1. Mikhail3
                      Mikhail3 21 December 2016 23: 17
                      0
                      Very, very cheap. Is the platinum catalyst included in your calculation? And the fact that we are not in a hurry? Huge volumes of gas are needed, so that nothing prevents planting production for example at night minimums of loads at power plants. Power engineers are happy to throw off tariffs for the opportunity to maneuver less. Nuclear workers will kiss such a customer from head to toe. You can continue to continue, bring the price of jet fuel ...
                      Do not win me in a dispute. Think better, it’s more useful.
                      1. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 23 December 2016 10: 51
                        0
                        Is the platinum catalyst included in your calculation?
                        and for what? to increase the price of a product? After all, do not forget, every metal involved in electrolysis has emissions, that is, spoilage, it will need to be replaced, and Yeon is not cheap !!!!
                        there will also be problems with nuclear engineers, because hydrogen absorption occurs only at maximum loads, and for nuclear power plants these are unusual cases, so there will be interruptions in the supply
                        what can I say, there are no more than 50 hydrogen filling stations in a well-fed Europe, and even 8-10 euros per liter of GAS (not cryogen), that is, it’s not just expensive, but super-expensive, because of the there are no reasons, and there cannot be commercial attractiveness, narrow specialization does not give any profit to commercial figures, and therefore this conducting is fun. and no more
      2. Justme
        Justme 17 December 2016 17: 12
        0
        I recommend looking at the wind system at an altitude of 20 km
        [media = https: //earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind
        /isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-315.56,51.84,1821
        ]
        this is earth - Height - 10 hPa (you can - 70 hPa). Overlay - Wind
        and we can draw the appropriate conclusions
    2. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 13: 54
      +1
      it is necessary to develop railway transport, it is economically cheaper for a country that has one sixth of land on Mother Earth, well, actually small aviation is already local, I personally believed in small aviation during the liquidation of various emergencies
      1. faiver
        faiver 17 December 2016 17: 12
        +1
        what railway transport in the conditions of the far north? republic of yakutia - 3mln sq. km, permafrost, even the capital of the republic, three hundred thousandth yakutsk in spring and autumn has communication with large land only by air (a bridge has been promised across the river for 30 years), not to mention smaller settlements ... Russia it’s not only within a radius of 500km from Moscow where you can get by car ...
        1. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 19: 19
          +1
          they have promised a bridge over the river for 30 years already, this is the second question, but in general it is in the Sakha that railway communication needs to be developed, BAM was built !!!! Turksib was built !!!! There is a CER, well, what is wrong with Yakutia? Although you can understand some convenience in speed, but railway can be made speedy. is not it?
          1. faiver
            faiver 17 December 2016 19: 47
            0
            ear, come and develop :), here they can’t solve the problem with roads, I’m generally silent about the railway ..., BAM, turksib, railway station everything is much south
            1. Crimean partisan 1974
              Crimean partisan 1974 18 December 2016 11: 08
              +1
              strange, a rich land and those, yes, everything should be simpler there, there are funds, materials, conditions for superconductivity, please, a magnetic railway track, allows you to have crazy savings, well, yes, small aircraft need to be developed, mine kent somewhere on your open spaces works as a welder, already 10 years
              1. faiver
                faiver 18 December 2016 13: 25
                0
                here, on the contrary, everything is much more complicated - climate, theft, officials are excessively greedy, permafrost and, as a result, a full anus ....
                1. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 18 December 2016 13: 38
                  +1
                  I get the impression that I am in correspondence with Kent from the Far East, the climate is the same, embezzlement, etc., then you need to do this first, eradicate embezzlement, then prospects for transport projects will appear
                  1. faiver
                    faiver 18 December 2016 14: 09
                    0
                    only in the Far East in winter the temperature minus seventy-two does not happen ... :)
        2. mav1971
          mav1971 19 December 2016 12: 33
          +1
          Quote: faiver
          what railway transport in the conditions of the far north? republic of yakutia - 3mln sq. km, permafrost, even the capital of the republic, three hundred thousandth yakutsk in spring and autumn has communication with large land only by air (a bridge has been promised across the river for 30 years), not to mention smaller settlements ... Russia it’s not only within a radius of 500km from Moscow where you can get by car ...



          See how the Chinese built their railroad in permafrost, and alpine.
          Qinghai-Tibet Railway.
          The total length of 2000 kilometers.

          The second stage - 960 kilometers passed through impassable highland regions at an altitude of over 4000 meters above sea level, of which about 550 kilometers located in the permafrost zone. They needed less than 5 years for this.
          The second section of Golmud - Lhasa, with a length of 1142 km, was built in 2001 — 2006. through impassable highlands. At the highest point, the railway rises to a height of 5072 meters above sea level.

          Do you think ours is not capable of doing the same. What did the Chinese do?
          1. faiver
            faiver 19 December 2016 12: 48
            +1
            in China they shoot for theft, but we all go in chocolate ....
  9. Pre-cat
    Pre-cat 17 December 2016 13: 02
    +3
    I think. the fact that we have practically no objections to small (regional) aviation will cause no one. And that in our vastness it is needed and important too. And now about what kind of aircraft should be in it. In my opinion, they should be reliable in the first place like an ax, as simple and as inexpensive. Secondly, they should be repaired in the most primitive conditions by staff of not the highest qualification. Undoubtedly, also, that all components for them should be produced in our country. In this case, especially comfortable conditions in the cabin are not required. Rather, the salons should be adapted both for transporting people and for goods. So far, aircraft designers have not proposed anything new and revolutionary, which means that we need to build on what we have. That is, to upgrade the same AN-2. I am sure that with a diesel engine and updated avionics, he will be able to fly for a long time. And lovers of the super-clever can go through the woods - now we are not up to the fat.
    1. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 17 December 2016 19: 24
      +1
      I fully support it, and even on the upper planes of the An-2, you can install parachute blocks, so that the An-2 wasn’t kill at all, well, emergency gel filling balls (pillows) to the extreme, exactly, while there is no better
  10. Justme
    Justme 17 December 2016 13: 12
    +1
    "... what engines will be installed on these aircraft? ..."

    It would be worth paying attention to SKB Turbochargers (Penza)
    What you would like to see as a copy of Hannival’s engines - I saw this in almost detail as an attempt to create a two-stage turbo-boost system for military diesel engines (HyperBar, purpose - tanks, corvettes). In practice, this is the very scheme of a gas turbine engine that I would like to install on AN-2, AN-3 class aircraft ...
    The value is primarily represented by the production base of SKBT .. They even had installation of directional crystallization of turbine blades (!). True, in 2007 she simply stood idle for 15 years already ..

    But SKBT as an organization is very specific ...
    The then General (he is now a shadow director) "milked" the office for loot in full .. (before bankruptcy ..)
    The second point is that the level of the design department is frankly weak (the starting point in their development was made by the brains of TsNIDI and Baumanka .. and the local "super-heroes" were in fact just "boys in the wings")
  11. lexseyOGK
    lexseyOGK 17 December 2016 16: 12
    0
    Until there is a private order for small aircraft, all tele-movements from the state are a dead issue. Stupidly enough money is not enough to order aircraft and pay for the operation. No matter how you spit here, you need to take an example from the United States, where it is enough to just get training for an MA pilot, buy an MA plane, get permission to fly, etc.
  12. Bayonet
    Bayonet 17 December 2016 19: 17
    +1
    05 and 6 horsepower RED A03 V12 and RED A350 V500 respectively were created jointly with German partners - the company RED, headed by Vladimir Raikhlin, a native of Russia.

    This is already quite cool - "created together with German partners" wassat Just because it was developed with funding from FINAM? It turns out WE created - the Germans and Reichlin helped little, little!
    The developer of the new generation diesel engine is RED aircraft GmbH.
    Its founder Vladimir Reikhlin, a world-famous motorist and race car driver, was the first to achieve significant success in creating an efficient diesel engine powered by aviation kerosene, which, in addition to high reliability and economy, would be safe, durable and environmentally friendly.
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 18 December 2016 20: 48
      0
      Quote: Bayonet
      The developer of the new generation diesel engine is RED aircraft GmbH.
      Its founder, Vladimir Raikhlin, a well-known motorist and racing driver in the world, is the first who managed to achieve significant success in creating an effective diesel engine,

      ... it really is TAG!

      Quote: Bayonet
      which, in addition to high reliability and profitability, would be safe, long lasting and eco-friendly.

      ... here are the parameters for RELIABILITY and Longevity - not yet proven.
      Especially as it will be in the case of MASS use ...

      Therefore, rushing with MRT slogans - even more early!
  13. Stilet
    Stilet 17 December 2016 22: 59
    +2
    And it is impossible to revise with the use of modern technologies and materials already developed and at one time mastered engines ASh-82FN, ASh-83 or 71 - the power of 1850 "horses" standing on the LA-5 instead of the ASh-62M with 1100 "horses" An- 2? The same "star" is only more powerful. Improve the quality of the motor. Why invent a bicycle? Wouldn't it be better to do aerodynamics and interior stuffing? After all, the 21st century after all. If we look forward, then what kind of diesel is there! I am making a rationalization proposal - let's put an ion engine on the An-2, so it can carry collective farmers to the moon and back laughing The world's first ion-powered biplane!
  14. Ruby
    Ruby 17 December 2016 23: 17
    +2
    Quote: lexseyOGK
    Until there is a private order for small aircraft, all tele-movements from the state are a dead issue. Stupidly enough money is not enough to order aircraft and pay for the operation. No matter how you spit here, you need to take an example from the United States, where it is enough to just get training for an MA pilot, buy an MA plane, get permission to fly, etc.

    That's it. You can discuss aircraft and engines as much as you like. But as long as there is no economic basis for the work of small aircraft, there will be no itself. These shipments have always been unprofitable in the days of the USSR and now. They were simply dated by the state in the Union, now no one will do it except for niche transportations such as forest protection, sanitation and the like. Commercial transport, by definition, will be very expensive, and not even because of the cost of a flight hour, but because of the need to maintain a huge infrastructure.
    Any site or uncategorized airfield is at least a few people and several pieces of equipment. Someone must clear the strip, someone must deliver fuel, refuel and service the plane. But who will do it? It’s up to the state that the residents of some Bulgunyakhtakh to Yakutsk should now get by cars. The village itself has no money to maintain the airfield. Where the remotorized and modernized Yak40 and An2 will fly.
    In Yakutia during the USSR there were more than 250 airdromes and sites, now there are not even 50. It is not surprising that now, in fact, An2 are replaced by helicopters. This is not only due to a decrease in the fleet, but also due to the collapse of ground infrastructure.
    1. faiver
      faiver 18 December 2016 17: 55
      0
      :), is there anything less than two hours by car from bulgunyakhtakh to Yakutsk? :)
  15. Ruby
    Ruby 18 December 2016 21: 00
    0
    Quote: faiver
    :), is there anything less than two hours by car from bulgunyakhtakh to Yakutsk? :)

    I am very glad to see on this forum a connoisseur of geography of Yakutia :)
    Obviously, Bulgunyakhtakh is nothing more than an example. Yes, the inhabitants of this village are lucky that they have direct road communication with Yakutsk. Although under the USSR there was an existing site. And the people had the opportunity to fly to Yakutsk, more precisely to Magan for 40 minutes for 3 rubles.
    And what about people who are not so lucky? How many living An2 were left in the whole northeast of Yakutia? Pieces five to ten at best. And this is the territory of about half of Western Europe, on which there are several dozen towns and villages, which are essentially cut off not only from Yakutsk, but also from their regional center.
    1. faiver
      faiver 19 December 2016 04: 10
      0
      well, in the days of the ussr there the road was worse and the car was at least three hours away
      but otherwise I completely agree ...
      Well, on the part of the connoisseur - I was born here, I live therefore how not to know that :)
  16. 911sx
    911sx 18 December 2016 22: 30
    0
    Actual topic. However, for twenty years at least some kind of implementation has been stuck. It is clear to everyone that a gas turbine engine for small aircraft is expensive and not economical (a gas turbine engine has a minimum fuel consumption at maximum modes, while a piston engine at maximum torque mode). In addition, the specific consumption of a gas turbine engine in the most advantageous mode is about 20-25% higher than that of a gasoline engine and approximately the same difference between a gasoline engine and a diesel engine. Diesel is not kerosene - it is a utopia, the cetane number of the latter is not more than 40. And you need 50. As a result, Raikhlin has an excellent diesel engine with 12 cylinders that lacks 150-200 forces. The reliability and durability of this unit is in doubt. On diesel fuel ... these are completely different layouts. Therefore, for Russia - piston gasoline. Where to get it? ZIL 4104kg, 310 hp With supercharging (300-0,6 bar) at 0,7 rpm, it will produce 3600 forces. And .. since 400 they have not been released. So maybe that's what remained on the ruins of AMO ZIL. Project "Cortege" 2007 and 12 cylinders to be converted into an aircraft engine. Yes, you will have to change something (compression ratio, 8 turbochargers instead of four, distributed instead of direct injection, change the lubrication system, lower the speed, can do something else). And please, 2sil, I guarantee for a 650-cylinder. Aviators dislike motorists with their motors, but in vain. Let them see how they drive in the rally and the ring (not WRC or F12, God forbid, I don't take such high comparisons) in the Russian championship ordinary forced engines, even if they are collected from KITs.
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 19 December 2016 00: 16
      0
      Quote: 911sx
      Therefore, for Russia, a piston gasoline. Where to get it?

      ... they soon say that LOM-Prague will start producing pre-war Walters in Russia -
      LOM-PRAGHA (LOM-PRAHA) M332A (140l.s) and M337A (210 hp)
      1. 911sx
        911sx 19 December 2016 22: 39
        +1
        Yes, a masterpiece. There were still rotational ones, they were at Newport, it’s a pity that Lom-Prague did not preserve their production. But in general .... sad.
  17. rubin6286
    rubin6286 21 December 2016 12: 52
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    I would advise the authors of the comments not to deviate from the topic. The article is about the revival of the aviation of the MVL and the problems that arise in the industry. Why is this controversy about Er-2, Pe-8, “utopian” chatter about installing a tank diesel engine on an airplane (in the end they got it), and so on.
    What engine to put on an MVL airplane and where to get it is not a fundamental issue. For this, the state has research institutes, design bureaus, factories, qualified personnel - a whole united aircraft building corporation and there is plenty of fuel (aviation gasoline and kerosene, fuel and lubricants). So what's the deal?
    Obviously, now this task, although important, is not a priority. Why? Because we are "strangled" by sanctions, and the production possibilities are not unlimited, and today the priority is given to state defense orders. If production of the Tu-160, MiG-31 is restored, the country will somehow solve the problem with the An-2 and find a replacement for the old ASH-62, which was still on the I-16. Everything will be, they are working on it, there are already interesting projects and constructive solutions. This is what you need to write about on the VO website.
  18. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 23 December 2016 14: 02
    0
    Crimean partisan 1974,
    The participation of the catalyst in the process ?! Hydrogen absorption at certain maxima, as an obstacle to the use of nuclear power plants ?!
    It was brewing.
    Creamy Shore
    Went on Nav
    And the grunts grunted
    Like mummies in mava!
    Everything, I am defeated. Absorption of highs killed me ...