Military Review

Commander-in-Chief of the VKS on the timing of deliveries of fighters T-50 to the troops

112
The dates of the first deliveries of the PAK FA scheduled for 2017 g will be fully met, Interfax-AVN Statement of the Commander-in-Chief of the FAC Victor Bondarev.


Commander-in-Chief of the VKS on the timing of deliveries of fighters T-50 to the troops


“All terms are saved. Tests of the PAK FA are leaps and bounds. The eighth copy has already been delivered, "
said Bondarev.

According to him, "the aircraft shows excellent flight performance." “This is our future, our hope. Not only the flight, but also the engineering and technical staff will master it with great success, ”said the commander-in-chief.

As reported by the representative of the Scientific Research Testing Center of Aerospace Medicine and Military Ergonomics (part of the VKS) on Saturday, the effectiveness of the actions of the pilot PAK FA is studied in the course of special studies.

“The aim of the research is to ensure the maximum efficiency of the pilot’s activities in carrying out the tasks assigned to him. It should maintain high efficiency while maximizing the capabilities of this aircraft, ”he said.
Photos used:
RIA News. Alexey Filippov
112 comments
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  1. oleg-gr
    oleg-gr 11 December 2016 10: 11
    +16
    So in the near future, these beauties will appear in the troops. Not long left. Let's wait.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 11 December 2016 10: 15
      +6
      Well, by the end of the year 17 will be. Previously, our planes do not seem to accept. But the engines will probably be current ...
      1. Titsen
        Titsen 11 December 2016 11: 02
        +1
        Quote: Muvka
        Well, by the end of the year 17 will be.


        This is about airplanes.

        And trained pilots and technicians for these aircraft?
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 11 December 2016 11: 19
          +5
          Quote: Titsen
          Not only the flight, but also the technical staff will master it with great success

          So not so much time will be required ...
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 11 December 2016 13: 04
            +18
            Quote: Muvka
            So not so much time will be required ...

            It must be understood that the serial PAK FA is still a machine with an engine of the first stage. They promise that PAK FA with product 30 will appear in 2018, if the deadlines are not shifted. But, in fairness, I must say that even with the first-stage engine, all the requirements for the 5th generation fighter are met. Not for nothing, the PAK FA with AL-41-F1 set a climb rate of 384 m / s.
            1. da Vinci
              da Vinci 11 December 2016 14: 20
              +4
              A big drawback of today's engine is its visibility in the IR range. And it is still unknown whether the new engine can solve this problem. what
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 11 December 2016 14: 38
                +9
                Quote: da Vinci
                A big drawback of today's engine is its visibility in the IR range. And it is still unknown whether the new engine can solve this problem. what

                Any engine in the infrared range glows like a Illich lamp, even lizard engines, despite the fact that its nozzles are rectangular. Absolute invisibility is not a priori. Check out the works of our scientists on the issue of cold plasma and plasma generators, which were still put on the MIG-29 and then on the TU-160. Moreover, the problem then was the simultaneous operation of the avionics of the aircraft and the plasma generator ... there is an opinion that since the 80s, working in this area, our scientists have partially or completely solved this problem.
                1. Voyager
                  Voyager 11 December 2016 14: 43
                  +4
                  In addition, they are divorced from the T-50, which contributes to the speedy dispersal.
                2. opus
                  opus 11 December 2016 15: 38
                  +6
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Check out the works of our scientists on the issue of cold plasma and plasma generators, which were still put on the MIG-29 and then on the TU-160.

                  good
                  Well, it carries you ...

                  here's a plasmatron (plasma generator)

                  power 80 kW, outlet temperature 6500К, stabilization of MEW, working substance nitrogen development of MSTU named after N.E.Bauman

                  Specifications:
                  1. Power, kW - 80
                  2. Discharge Current, A - 333
                  3. Discharge voltage, V - 240
                  4. The working substance is nitrogen.
                  5. Consumption of the working substance, g / s - 2.7 g / s
                  6. Efficiency,% - 60
                  7. Outlet gas temperature, K - 6500
                  8. Type of cooling - water
                  9. Type of cathode - thermionic
                  10. Cathode Material - Tungsten

                  Shove it on the MIG-29 and Tu-160

                  What for ?
                  fool
                  Let me see these "works"
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 11 December 2016 16: 41
                    +4
                    Quote: opus
                    Well, it carries you ...

                    According to this principle, it was decided to create a compact plasma generator that can be placed on an aircraft. The design is small and light. The plasma system created powerful electron beams. Air was ionized and a plasma formed with the necessary characteristics.

                    “It was necessary to achieve compatibility of the plasma generator with all systems of a modern aircraft,” says Andrey Golovin, an employee of the Keldysh Center. “The plasma cloud impeded a good connection with the earth.” In addition, interference interfered with the operation of many electronic systems and avionics. However, these problems were resolved, the installation successfully passed state tests. ”

                    This technology gives the best results when used on aircraft. Especially at high altitudes. It is at least not inferior in its effectiveness to the American methods of reducing radio stealth, used on the notorious F-117. A significant advantage of plasma generators is that they can be installed on any moving device that needs to be hidden from the radar. Including old designs. At the same time, the flight performance of the aircraft does not suffer. They are able to actively maneuver during aerial combat and perform aerobatics, which F-117 is extremely weak. In some cases, it is possible to use it on ground vehicles, even on production vehicles.

                    Nonequilibrium plasma generators successfully passed state tests more than ten years ago. However, in transitional times, the introduction of the installation in aviation was significantly slowed down. “Perhaps there is some blame for this on the part of the leadership of the institute,” continues Anatoly Koroteev. - Oh, not very actively we promoted it to life. It was a difficult time. Funding was declining, military issues were slowing down. ”

                    Yes, and now experiments in the field of radio invisibility at the Center. Keldysh are not active enough. All the same funding is lacking. However, there are no analogues to nonequilibrium plasma generators abroad. Till. Indeed, from the late nineties, similar work began in the United States. Murder will out.

                    This is an interview with Anatoly Koroteyev about work on plasma generators ... by the way, the first experimental generators were put on the MIG-29.
                    1. KKND
                      KKND 11 December 2016 16: 50
                      +5
                      Nexus, describe the physical process of absorption or scattering at an arbitrary angle of an electromagnetic wave interacting with a plasma cloud.
                      Or merge as with PAK FA in 2016. (I'm talking about the last dispute with you)
                      1. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 11 December 2016 16: 57
                        +5
                        Quote: KKND
                        Nexus, describe the physical process of absorption or scattering at an arbitrary angle of an electromagnetic wave interacting with a plasma cloud.

                        if you throw a tennis ball into the wall, it will bounce and come back. The radar signal is also reflected from the aircraft and returned to the receiving antenna. Aircraft detected.

                        If the walls are angled and tilted in different directions, then the ball will bounce anywhere, but will not return back. Signal lost. American stealth is based on this principle.

                        If you cover the wall with soft mats and throw a ball at them, then it will simply plop around it, lose energy and fall near the wall. Also, a plasma formation absorbs the energy of radio waves. The plane is becoming invisible to radar.

                        According to this principle, it was decided to create a compact plasma generator that can be placed on an aircraft. The design is small and light. The plasma system created powerful electron beams. Air was ionized and a plasma formed with the necessary characteristics.

                        Quote: KKND
                        Or merge as with PAK FA in 2016. (I'm talking about the last dispute with you)

                        Dear, if I did not answer your post, this does not mean that I have merged, but means that I consider the further discussion pointless, since the person is deaf to the opponent’s arguments.
                    2. opus
                      opus 11 December 2016 17: 35
                      +5
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      This is an interview with Anatoly Koroteyev about plasma work

                      where is the interview then?
                      1.

                      2. Yablochky Prize
                      2001 Koroteev Anatoly Sazonovich For the work "Generation and investigation of powerful stationary electron beams in dense gaseous media"

                      mustache.
                      My opinion: a bike about the interview, a plasma gas generator weighing 100 kg is buried here

                      p 109

                      Who is "Maxim Kalashnikov" I hope it is not necessary to explain?
                      Enchanting nonsense.
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      which can be placed on an aircraft.

                      Where? in a radiolucent nasal fairing?
                      * aerodynamics (plasmatron I brought)?
                      * Radar?


                      Quote: NEXUS
                      created powerful beams of electrons. Air was ionized and a plasma formed with the necessary characteristics.

                      ELECTRON BEAM - a stream of electrons moving along close trajectories in one direction, having dimensions significantly larger in the direction of motion than in the transverse plane. Since E. p. Is a combination of the same charge. particles, inside it there is a spatial charge of electrons, which creates its own. electric field.
                      P.E. created by the DIFFERENCE of ponecials (30kV?)
                      A "beam of electrons" is a CRT (CRT, TV, not TFT) ...



                      Quote: NEXUS
                      However, these problems were resolved, the installation successfully passed state tests. ”

                      where are these results?
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      By the way, the first experimental generators were put on the MIG-29.

                      By the way, where is he this MIG-29?

                      plasma is an ionized gas.
                      "A POWERFUL Emitter ionizes the air in front of it."
                      Question # 1: why is it (the plasma shell) not "blown away" by the oncoming air stream?
                      Question number 2:
                      After your MIG-29 has turned on the generator = the enemy no longer needs any radar - it can detect the emitter.
                      Question No. 3, included (gp)
                      the enemy will be able to induce primitive ECO


                      or by eye
                      1. KKND
                        KKND 11 December 2016 17: 41
                        +3
                        Come on you opus. I want a person to believe that there are plasma generators in the bins of our Motherland and let him believe. In our country, freedom of religion in the end.
                      2. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 11 December 2016 20: 34
                        +3
                        Well, a person does not fumble in physics even at the level of a school course. Your opponent is not aware that a plane with such a generator will shine on any passive receiver like a small sun. After all, plasma is actually a powerful broadband radiator.
                        as an example, your opponent should go outside in the afternoon, raise his head up and look at all of us the familiar natural plasma generator - the Sun. And then answer your own question: why the heck is it to irradiate the Sun with radar in order to detect it from the Earth?
                3. GSH-18
                  GSH-18 11 December 2016 16: 29
                  +2
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Any engine in the infrared range glows like a Illich lamp, even lizard engines, despite the fact that its nozzles are rectangular.

                  I greet the Nexus! About IR, you are right, only America had time and they took a number of measures to reduce IR visibility. Noticeable results have been achieved, I must admit. I think our t-50 will also take this into account. There are rumors that the dvigun of the 2nd stage may also be with a flat nozzle. Although I'm not sure, there are other ways to reduce IR visibility.
                  1. opus
                    opus 11 December 2016 17: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: GSH-18
                    There are rumors that the dvigun of the 2nd stage may also be with a flat nozzle

                    will not.
                    1.This is a completely different aircraft: loss of pressure and traction (for SU-27 PSa for AL-31F, losses were from 14% to 17%), problems with reverse
                    This increased mass (in addition to tensile loads (as axisymmetric) they also experience bending loads). At the same time, providing the necessary strength and rigidity entails an inevitable increase in the mass of the entire structure. On the F-15 STOL / MTD, it was 180 kg per engine.
                    2. PS is the lack of perspective: Thrust vector control on such a nozzle is performed according to design capabilities only in the vertical plane.
                    PS is a completely different nozzle ...

                    Quote: GSH-18
                    Although I'm not sure, there are other ways to reduce IR visibility.

                    1. PS The IR visibility is reduced by the correct formation of the ratio of the width to the height of the nozzle and the exit jet in order to lower its temperature.
                    2. Reducing the infrared visibility of a gas turbine engine by shielding infrared radiation (US patent No. 4226084 from 24.07.1970)
                    3. "A device for shielding an exhaust nozzle of a jet engine" by shielding and reducing infrared radiation and X-ray radiation of a gas turbine engine using an elastic screen created around the nozzle exit using flexible tapes located around the perimeter of the jet nozzle (GB patent No. 2407133 dated 20.04.2005/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                4. Asadullah
                  Asadullah 11 December 2016 17: 11
                  0
                  , our scientists have partially or completely solved this problem.


                  smile They didn’t decide. They still think how to solve the problem at least from above.
                5. Krabik
                  Krabik 12 December 2016 11: 01
                  0
                  even lizard engines


                  It is not.
                  The FU-22 engine is closed and does not glow like a Illich lamp, only a jet is visible.
                  1. opus
                    opus 12 December 2016 12: 47
                    +3
                    Quote: Krabik
                    like Ilyich’s bulb, only a stream is visible.

                    1.And the jet does not "glow"?


                    2. The engine is "closed".
                    Yes it is.
                    The infrared signature will be smaller than with an open pipe.
                    But the amount of heat will not change!
                    The engine radiated, now the body (though the temperature of the radiating body is lower, and the surface of the radiating body is larger)
                    Example: bathhouse and sauna stove.
                    Take Ik picture from one and then another
                    Quote: KKND
                    the more the engine glows in IR, the more efficiency it has.
                    But this is so for general development ...

                    good

                    where P is the traction force, v is the flight speed, c is the jet velocity (relative to the engine), G is the second mass flow rate of the working fluid through the engine. Obviously, the VRM is effective (creates thrust) only in the case when the speed of the outflow of the working fluid from the engine nozzle exceeds the flight speed: c> v

                    The rate of gas outflow from a nozzle of a thermal jet engine depends on the chemical composition of the working fluid, its absolute temperature at the inlet to the nozzle, and the degree of expansion of the working fluid in the nozzle of the engine (the ratio of the pressure at the inlet of the nozzle to the pressure at its outlet).
                    It’s clear that, all other things being equal, "C" can be increased only by the usefulness of the chemical reaction of oxidation (combustion) of fuel.
                    By the way, they do not fly at the ideal km yet (the critical parts of the turbojet engine do not withstand the temperature)
                    1. Krabik
                      Krabik 12 December 2016 13: 08
                      0
                      Where did you get so much text from useless?

                      I watched the recordings of T-50 and F-22 flights in the IR range.

                      The conclusion is clear T-50 glows like a Christmas tree, and F-22 only a stream.

                      This means that the head will fly behind the F-22 stream and the field of fragments has less chance of damaging the plane.

                      It’s better not to talk about engine efficiency, we, like the Chinese, were limping in this regard, not the level of production in our country to get drunk on Pratt & Whitney.
                      1. opus
                        opus 12 December 2016 14: 17
                        +4
                        Quote: Krabik
                        Where did you get so much text from useless?

                        Your question is not modest ... from the head of course (I have it)
                        Quote: Krabik
                        I watched the recordings of T-50 and F-22 flights in the IR range.


                        good
                        Come on!
                        Maybe you will show me. The secret behind the "7 seals" and you already "looked".
                        In a dream?
                        Will show?
                        No not like this. simplify the task:
                        submit for review
                        Quote: Krabik
                        flight records MIG-29 and F-16 in the infrared range.

                        I will be grateful
                        Quote: Krabik
                        The conclusion is clear T-50 glows like a Christmas tree, and F-22 only a stream.


                        Oh, these legends about Christmas trees.
                        In what field
                        750nm-2.500nm?
                        2.500nm - 50.000nm?
                        50.000nm-2.000.000nm?
                        glows
                        Quote: Krabik
                        Christmas tree
                        и
                        Quote: Krabik
                        unequivocal T-50 is lit

                        fool
                        How to deal with such a strange formula

                        P = α σ (T1 ^ 4 - T2 ^ 4) S
                        ?
                        (I hope you understand what I mean wink )
                        With the spectral density of the energy luminosity of real bodies?



                        Quote: Krabik
                        This means that the head will fly behind the F-22 stream and the field of fragments has less chance of damaging the plane.

                        Here's a "jet"


                        or as

                        And where will the UR with the IR head fly?
                        And think a little:
                        - where does the UR with the IR head fly when the target is against the sun, when the target drops IR traps
                        -you got a blowtorch,

                        put her (or her) nozzle into the pipe
                        look at it in the process in an infrared tester
                        Quote: Krabik
                        the field of fragments is less likely to damage the plane.

                        maybe you don’t know, but
                        - A missile guidance (as a rule) is carried out not at the current position of the target, but at changing this position in the interval between scans according to the principle of proportional navigation.
                        - detonation of SD is carried out by non-contact RADIO fuses when flying missiles at a distance of 5-6 m from the target
                        or with a direct hit, warheads are detonated by contact fuses.

                        Quote: Krabik
                        It’s better not to talk about engine efficiency, we, like the Chinese, were limping in this regard


                        Quote: Krabik
                        It’s better not to talk about engine efficiency, we, like the Chinese, were limping in this regard, not the level of production in our country to get drunk on Pratt & Whitney.

                        Oh well?
                        Can you bring the figure?
                        example of the importance of efficiency:
                        AL-21F-3 has a specific thrust of 6,5 kgf / kg
                        AL-31F has a draft of 8 kgf / kg
                        AL-31FP already has a specific thrust of 9 kgf / kg
                        117C has - 9.54-10 kgf / kg (export or not)
                        F-119-100 has - 9 kgf / kg!
                        engine specific thrust is the ratio of its OUTPUT power to engine mass
                        Efficiency - the ratio of useful work to energy expended.
                        Efficiency for turbojet engines - I wrote above
                        Or, Schaub is simpler:
                        Mobile GTU Mobilepac (Pratt & Whitney Power Systems) FT8 MOBILEPA

                        Based on Pratt & Whitney PW4000

                        High power - 25 MW
                        Efficiency - 37,1-38%
                        Look for our analogues on the basis of aviation gas turbine engines to compare the efficiency?
                        Al help?
              2. KKND
                KKND 11 December 2016 17: 22
                +3
                Quote: da Vinci
                A big drawback of today's engine is its visibility in the IR range

                I’ll tell you more, the more the engine glows in the IR, the more efficiency it has.
                But this is so for general development ...
              3. opus
                opus 11 December 2016 17: 59
                +1
                Quote: da Vinci
                And it is still unknown whether the new engine can solve this problem.

                unlikely


            2. HAPA
              HAPA 11 December 2016 14: 49
              0
              Quote: NEXUS
              Not for nothing, PAK FA with AL-41-F1 set a climb rate of 384 m / s.

              I will try. ask you, but is there a reliable source for this information?
              And then I see you like to refer to frankly not reliable information. Here's what facebook page it went from.
              http://vz.ru/news/2016/2/19/795412.html
              Thus, the PAK FA could climb Mount Everest in 23 seconds - faster than any other fighter in the world, said on its page in Facebook resource AirForce - Swords Of Sky.

              AirForce - Swords Of Sky.
              https://www.facebook.com/pg/airforceswordsofsky/a
              bout /? ref = page_internal
              And then, what will be the links to the fantastic films?
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 11 December 2016 15: 09
                +5
                Quote: HAPA
                I will try. ask you, but is there a reliable source for this information?

                February 18, 2016 there were reports that the newest Sukhoi T-50 fighter (PAK FA), undergoing tests, set a climbing record. The plane reached an indicator of 384 m / s.
                This statement is not entirely correct in a sporting sense. The fact is that the International Aviation Federation (FAI) does not register climb rate (that is, the vertical component of the true speed of the aircraft), but the climb time of 3000, 6000, 9000, 12000 meters, and so on - this is traditionally the case. By the way, the holder of these records is the same Sukhoi company: on October 27, 1986, a test pilot of the Design Bureau named after P.O. Sukhoi on a specially converted prototype of the Su-27 aircraft, designated P-42, climbed 3000 m in 25,4 seconds. On November 15, 1986, he climbed the P-42 to altitudes of 6000, 9000 and 12000 m in 37,1, 47,0 and 58,1 seconds, respectively, significantly exceeding the achievements of the American R. Smith, who flew on the McDonnell-Douglas fighter YF-15A Eagle, also specially prepared for a record flight.
                Although the T-50 record is not subject to registration by the FAI, it shows how combat capabilities of this aircraft are higher than other modern fighters. And he was installed on an airplane in the usual configuration, and not extremely lightweight. Of course, some combat systems and weapons are still not installed on the experimental prototypes of the PAK FA, but their control and recording equipment and weight-scale models of the missing equipment take their place.

                And I'm sorry, but I'm not registered on Facebook ... the record has been said more than once ... By the way, the West also did not recognize the P-42 record.
                1. HAPA
                  HAPA 11 December 2016 15: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  By the way, the West also did not recognize the P-42 record.

                  stop
                  Recognized. Stop living in your world.
                  http://www.fai.org/record-powered-aeroplanes
                  off.site
                  C-1 World 3: turbo-jet Time to climb to a height of 12 m- 000s
                  1986-11-15 ratified - retired by changes of the sporting code 3759

                  https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Poegatsjov
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  And I'm sorry, but I'm not registered on Facebook ... about the record it was said more than once.

                  And all the links on Facebook. I just ask for a link to the office. source and not on Facebook. Isn't that complicated?
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 11 December 2016 16: 23
                    +2
                    Quote: HAPA
                    Recognized. Stop living in your world.

                    Or can you wake up? Turn on your brain and think, were there at that moment representatives of the organization that fixes such records? Apparently not, because there is no record or record fixing ... and now we are straining the brain more and wondering, why is this so? And we get a simple answer, PAK FA is, first of all, a combat aircraft, in which even the dimensions are classified. Moreover, if the record is not recorded by the relevant authorities, this does not mean that it was not. At the same time, the figure-384m / s is voiced ... but why not 400m / s, if this is your fake?
                    1. HAPA
                      HAPA 11 December 2016 17: 20
                      +3
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Or can you wake up? Turn on your brain and think, were there at that moment representatives of the organization that fixes such records? Apparently not, because there is no record or record fixing ... and now we are straining the brain more and wondering, why is this so?

                      Uh remember what we
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      By the way, the West also did not recognize the P-42 record.

                      This record is recognized (we are about p-42). In our world (real), although you claim not (in your world).
                      Paragraph 2
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      And we get a simple answer, PAK FA is, first of all, a combat aircraft, in which even the dimensions are classified. Moreover, if the record is not recorded by the relevant authorities, this does not mean that it was not. At the same time, the figure-384m / s is voiced ... but why not 400m / s, if this is your fake?

                      I do not ask for an officially registered record. And only confirmation of these figures from the VKS, Sukhog, UAC, Pilot.
                      Well they wrote, Fesbuka 384 m / s wanted so. What have I got to do with it? Or is this such an argument? That someone came up with a figure and since it is not "round" - it means it's true. belay belay
                      And you write to me
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Turn on your brains and think

                      belay belay
                      1. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 11 December 2016 17: 32
                        +2
                        Quote: HAPA
                        And only confirmation of these figures from the VKS, Sukhog, UAC, Pilot.

                        And why is this confirmation of Sukhoi Design Bureau? Especially in light of the fact that the car has not even been adopted yet? There is no serial car yet, but there is a prototype. So, I believe that the PROTOTYPE pre-series could well have given this record.
                        Quote: HAPA
                        then someone came up with a figure and since it is not "round" - it means it's true.

                        And here is a round or oval figure? Well, since you were so confused, why not 426 m / s? Or 508 m / s ...? Well then the little things?
                      2. HAPA
                        HAPA 11 December 2016 17: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And why is this confirmation of Sukhoi Design Bureau? Especially in light of the fact that the car has not even been adopted yet? There is no serial car yet, but there is a prototype. So, I believe that the PROTOTYPE pre-series could well have given this record.

                        based on a post on facebook? That is, if I now create a Facebook post about the fact that the earth is flat, can it be true or that the F-XX rate of climb say 567 m / s too?
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And here is a round or oval figure? Well, since you were so confused, why not 426 m / s? Or 508 m / s ...? Well then the little things?

                        Then why is it more real than 400?
            3. GSH-18
              GSH-18 11 December 2016 16: 18
              +1
              Yes, the T-50 is a flying engineering masterpiece, no less. Handsome, special missile weapons under him are being developed good
              We’ll wait a bit, they’ll show for sure at the May 9th parade yes
    2. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 11 December 2016 10: 16
      +16
      I'm like an old pessimist lol I’ll believe it when there appears infa that the first PAK FAs entered the VKS.
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 11 December 2016 10: 20
        +2
        First, they are likely to appear in the Lipetsk center for combat use.
        1. cniza
          cniza 11 December 2016 12: 46
          +3
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          I'm like an old pessimist lol I’ll believe it when there appears infa that the first PAK FAs entered the VKS.


          But they will have a different name.
      2. midivan
        midivan 11 December 2016 11: 12
        +2
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        I'm like an old pessimist

        Judging by ava, either not old or a big optimist laughing
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 11 December 2016 13: 29
          +8
          Thank you Ivan ! Photo on ava - genuine! bully
    3. Vadivak
      Vadivak 11 December 2016 10: 20
      +3
      Quote: oleg-gr
      So in the near future, these beauties will appear in the troops. Not long left.

      Actually, in May 2015, Bondarev promised the adoption of the T-50 for arming in 2016, and against the background of the fact that 2016 was the year of criminal cases with special status, I want to believe that promises will not remain promises
      1. servant.
        servant. 11 December 2016 10: 34
        +3
        Initially, there were promises for 2015 ...
        1. clidon
          clidon 11 December 2016 10: 54
          +2
          "The first 10 fighters will enter the troops in 2013."
          1. midivan
            midivan 11 December 2016 11: 19
            +3
            Quote: Vadivak
            Actually, in May 2015, Bondarev promised

            Quote: Vadivak
            Actually, in May 2015, Bondarev promised the adoption of the T-50 for service in 2016

            Quote: clidon
            "The first 10 fighters will enter the troops in 2013."

            More, more salt and shit on top am
            1. Philip Staros
              Philip Staros 11 December 2016 18: 18
              0
              What year did they promise? In recent years, adequate and serious people have promised 17-18 years, sort of. And the engine of the second stage was generally promised after the 18th, and here, it seems, they even overtake a little the schedule ... but at least they did not lag behind.
              1. clidon
                clidon 11 December 2016 20: 04
                +1
                In 2010 they promised. Of course, they are also serious and adequate people - and there have slipped more than once. It is clear that we will not receive the combat ready machine very soon.
            2. Philip Staros
              Philip Staros 11 December 2016 18: 19
              0
              or promised the FIRST FLIGHT? So he flew ...
        2. GSH-18
          GSH-18 11 December 2016 16: 42
          0
          Quote: serviceman.
          Initially, there were promises for 2015 ...

          5th generation aircraft for a couple of three years, even with an experienced design bureau impossible to do. This is a difficult engineering task for anyone. Delays of a year or two from the terms announced in advance are quite normal. Look at how many years Americans have been munching on their f-35, and after all, it’s not their first project of the 5th generation, and it is still not accepted for service! So the term claims to the videoconferencing, OKB DRY, and UAC, at least not justified. Haste is needed when catching fleas. Let them do it, solve the problems that arise along the way - this is normal. The main thing is that the final version should be able to confidently establish air supremacy in any conditions soldier
          1. HAPA
            HAPA 11 December 2016 17: 21
            0
            Quote: GSH-18
            Look at how many years Americans have been munching on their f-35, and after all, it’s not their first project of the 5th generation, and it is still not accepted for service!

            Accepted. F-35A from 02.08.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX
            1. Philip Staros
              Philip Staros 11 December 2016 18: 19
              0
              With restrictions and all sorts of reservations ...
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 11 December 2016 11: 30
      +1
      While the war in Syria, it would not be bad to test the plane in a real combat situation.
      1. mr.redpartizan
        mr.redpartizan 11 December 2016 19: 43
        0
        There is a risk of losing the plane for technical reasons and getting its wreckage into the hands of "moderate" militants.
    5. RASKAT
      RASKAT 11 December 2016 14: 50
      +1
      And what about the 30 engine? It seems like next year I should do the same, the first installments are like at the end of the 2017 of the year. Yes, and new missiles, too, in the 2017-18g should come.
      It is gratifying to see that everything is going according to plan. keep it up good
      1. RASKAT
        RASKAT 11 December 2016 15: 38
        +1
        Slightly off topic but still, good news for our aviation.
        IL-76

        good
        IL-112

  2. byxarik1
    byxarik1 11 December 2016 10: 16
    +2
    clear timing is important but you should not forget about the quality of the work done, but how it will work with F-22
    F-35 I’ll just shut up
    1. clidon
      clidon 11 December 2016 10: 53
      +3
      The Su-27 was adopted in the 1990s. It’s for everyone - at first the machine goes into service, then the primary combat readiness, then full combat readiness. Say what you like, but these dates for the T-50 are still far away. Especially considering that a new engine is waiting for him.
  3. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 11 December 2016 10: 25
    +1
    It is unpleasant to recognize that the deadlines for many programs are being postponed due to the crisis. We will see.
  4. demiurg
    demiurg 11 December 2016 10: 31
    +3
    So when in 2017 he appears in some sort of regiment, receives a tail number, then we’ll start to rejoice.
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 11 December 2016 11: 32
      +3
      There is always a crisis in Russia when the money for theft runs out. As soon as it is necessary to "degrease" the deposits of the population, there is a crisis.
  5. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 11 December 2016 10: 35
    +1
    Great. While they will develop the aircraft, it is necessary to further develop a new engine for it.
  6. vakula
    vakula 11 December 2016 10: 41
    0
    Hope always dies last. We believe that this year everything will come true
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 11 December 2016 12: 36
      0
      Yeah, especially when you consider that in words All dates are saved. Tests PAK FA go leaps and bounds - the specifics are zero.
  7. clidon
    clidon 11 December 2016 10: 52
    +4
    It is more interesting when these vehicles reach at least primary combat readiness. And the fact that their "military" testers at the Lipetsk test sites will begin to run in, then this may not take a year. It is just possible to reach the second stage engines and reach BG in 22m year. And at 25m full. And the disease should be corrected by 27-29.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 11 December 2016 12: 32
      +2
      Quote: clidon
      It is more interesting when these vehicles reach at least primary combat readiness.

      This is an American term. Our approximate analogy is output to the database.
      When will the T-50s in combat regiments go to the database? It is difficult to say, but not earlier than 2020.
  8. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 11 December 2016 11: 13
    +5
    "" This is our future, our hope. "////

    In this he is right. The generation changes suddenly. When the 4th generation was deployed,
    3rd in a few years has become hopelessly outdated.
    It will be the same now.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 11 December 2016 11: 21
      +3
      The 5th generation has existed since the beginning of the 2000s, but the 4th generation isn’t out of date ...
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 11 December 2016 11: 32
        +7
        There was no air combat, as it was in 1982 when the 4th (Israeli) clashed with the 3rd (Syrian) over Lebanon. Then everything at once became clear to everyone. All questions disappeared. And the Su-27 became a reliable counterweight to the F-16 and F-15.
        Today we can only talk (fortunately) about training battles. For example, in the United States, five F-15s were conducted against one F-22. The "battle" looked like this: F-15s flew in a group, covering each other, and the pilots, turning their heads, and looking at the screens, were unsuccessfully looking for the enemy. And on the radio they received the order: "So and so, you are shot down, get out of the battle" ... And so 5 times.
        They have never been able to see or detect the Raptor on the radar.
        And these days the Raptors are escorting Syrian fighters, and they don't even know about it. And imagine if there was an order "fire"?
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 11 December 2016 11: 50
          +2
          In India, too, there were such fights. And there the F-22 was on a par with the Su-30MKI, if I do not confuse ...
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 11 December 2016 12: 28
            +6
            Quote: Muvka
            In India, too, there were such fights. And there the F-22 was on a par with the Su-30MKI, if I do not confuse ...

            There were no such fights in India. Why fantasize?
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 11 December 2016 12: 34
          +4
          I may be wrong about something, if I’m not a pilot and I’m not going to get into the search for facts - but in some of the air battles, the Yankes were hit by three out of five missiles - so he would not have shot them down immediately. And there was no opposition to the "missiles" either. At the moment of launching missiles, the plane becomes more visible on the radar, so after the first launch, it would "burn", and then, it would be quickly deprived of its advantage in long-range combat.
        3. Kozliu
          Kozliu 11 December 2016 15: 15
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh

          And these days the Raptors are escorting Syrian fighters, and they don't even know about it. And imagine if there was an order "fire"?

          Americans fly over Syria, exclusively with lumbar lenses, so as not to scorch their real EPR. Everything that flies over Syria is visible on our radars.
        4. opus
          opus 11 December 2016 18: 11
          +3
          Quote: voyaka uh
          For example, in the United States, five F-15s were conducted against one F-22. The "fight" looked like this: F-15 flew in a group,

          When was that?
          CE?


          Quote: voyaka uh
          And on the radio they received the order: "So and so, you are shot down, get out of the battle" ... And so 5 times.
          They have never been able to see or detect the Raptor on the radar.


          1 .... how do their tankers find it. in trouble then

          2.Rafal saw and failed


          Quote: voyaka uh
          And these days, Raptors escort Syrian fighters

          If the Syrians do not suspect about this (and our VKS is clear the same stub with their nosum air defense systems) ... THEN YOU HOW LEARNED ABOUT IT?
          1. KKND
            KKND 11 December 2016 18: 26
            +2
            Well, the comrades from Israel have a direct religious admiration for American technology.
            But nothing that the Su-27 can attack with the help of OLS missiles with a thermal head?
            The raptor has such a possibility in the presence of missiles only in the internal compartments.
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 11 December 2016 19: 03
            0
            "WHAT YOU HOW LEARNED ABOUT IT?" ////

            Not with the "third eye" on the forehead belay .
            I just watched a video on YouTube where American pilots participating in this training battle emotionally spoke about it smile .
            1. opus
              opus 11 December 2016 22: 45
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Just watched the video in youtube

              I brought this video and there "emotionally".
              Does it fit
              Quote: voyaka uh
              ... For example, in the United States, five F-15s were conducted against one F-22. The "fight" looked like this: F-15s flew in a group, covering each other, and the pilots, turning their heads, and looking at the screens usedunsuccessfully searched for the enemy. And on the radio they received the order: "So and so, you are shot down, get out of the battle" ... And so 5 times.

              Well, I'm generally talking about something else
              Quote: voyaka uh
              And these days, Raptors accompany the Syrian fighters, and they don’t even suspect about it.

              How do you know about this?
        5. Philip Staros
          Philip Staros 11 December 2016 18: 23
          +1
          If I needed to report for several tens of billions of dollars, I would also arrange a similar one. When five planes fly, not receiving support from either long-wave radars from the ground, or from other systems that stealth can see ... there are no OLS, missiles are "fired" at you virtually cleanly - without opening the bomb bays and preventing the flight trajectory from being detected ...
          And for those billions, I would have told pilots six times that they were shot down :)
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 11 December 2016 19: 10
            0
            You have a very Russian view of events: if you can fake something,
            cheat someone, then you have to fake and cheat laughing .
            But the Americans are just sincere people ("suckers" from the Russian point of view).
            They do not write off exams; they do not fake tests. The devastating are published
            reports are about themselves, not hide them. If they smear, apologize, admit mistakes ...
            1. Trigger-Happy
              Trigger-Happy 12 December 2016 10: 18
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But Americans are just sincere people

              sincerity itself, cookies are distributed, Russians are not considered for people, but they are afraid to say bluntly, wreak havoc and death wherever profitable, and then sincerely wonder why they all hate them! The Nazis were also sincere, and they burned 5 million Jews, sincerely, from the heart ..... And your sincere friends also genuinely sympathized with them ....
            2. fzr1000
              fzr1000 12 December 2016 12: 24
              0
              You can’t be so naive at that age.
        6. fzr1000
          fzr1000 11 December 2016 21: 17
          0
          And the Raptor suspect that they are accompanied by our air defense systems in Syria?
  9. Makk
    Makk 11 December 2016 11: 18
    +1
    Quote: Gormengast
    It is unpleasant to recognize that the deadlines for many programs are being postponed due to the crisis. We will see.

    It is unpleasant to recognize that the crisis is associated with a low oil price, which has led to a reduction in the possibility of acquiring materials, tools and equipment in Western countries for the implementation of these programs, as well as to a reduction in the REAL wages of workers and employees, which are expressed in large part by imported goods or conditionally domestic.
  10. pan.70
    pan.70 11 December 2016 11: 30
    +1
    In China, it is planned to put the 5th generation Black Eagle aircraft on stream in 2017, so we need to hurry up on the deadlines.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 11 December 2016 11: 51
      +3
      What for? Than their 5th generation is better than the Su-35. What are the specific parameters?
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 11 December 2016 11: 57
      +2
      We do not have a social competition "who is faster" with them. The American has been in the ranks for 15 years, so what?
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 11 December 2016 12: 37
      +2
      Quote: pan.70
      In China, it is planned to deliver the 5th generation "Black Eagle" aircraft in 2017 already on stream

      Not on stream, but on trial operation.
      Quote: pan.70
      so you need to hurry up on time.

      What's the connection? China does not threaten us. Yes, and if it threatened, the T-50 would not change anything in the balance of power.
      They have absolute superiority on earth, in our nuclear weapons. In the end, parity.
      1. Philip Staros
        Philip Staros 11 December 2016 18: 25
        0
        Well ... superiority on the ground to get, they still need to collect and train an army. The fact that in peacetime there is "superiority" does not give.
        Well, yes - TNW taxis.
  11. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 11 December 2016 11: 36
    +3
    New engines (second generation) are already on the stand. Not a simple and very expensive thing is to make a new good engine. For too long, our developers sat on a starvation diet. Experience, knowledge, documentation, stands, technologies. Everywhere and everything rises slowly. It's all expensive, and for a long time.
    It was much faster and easier to crush.
    The plane turned out wonderful. In all respects. His TTX is a pity, secret, but he is stronger and more effective than the coolest of our dryers, the 35th, for example. The pilot would have stood all his capabilities.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 11 December 2016 11: 52
      +1
      Well yes. On current engines already set a world record for climb. And what will happen to the new ones ...
      1. HAPA
        HAPA 11 December 2016 12: 51
        0
        Quote: Muvka
        Well yes. On current engines already set a world record for climb. And what will happen to the new ones ...


        In a post on a face book? Yes, this is a very reliable source of information. laughing bully
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 13 December 2016 12: 06
          0
          For some reason, for representatives of Western states, posts on Facebook and Twitter are quite reliable when it comes to evidence of "atrocities" in Donbass, Syria, and so on. Are you a hypocrite? :)
          1. HAPA
            HAPA 13 December 2016 12: 17
            0
            Quote: Voyager
            For some reason, for representatives of Western states, posts on Facebook and Twitter are quite reliable when it comes to evidence of "atrocities" in Donbass, Syria, and so on. Are you a hypocrite?

            And this one? Demagogy?
            If there were a photo and a video, then another conversation.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 13 December 2016 13: 51
              0
              Not demagogy, but dipping you into yours. It’s very cool to look at the photo of the plane, which is gaining record speed, it’s generally 5 points laughing
              1. HAPA
                HAPA 13 December 2016 16: 42
                0
                Quote: Voyager
                Not demagogy, but dipping you into yours. It’s very cool to look at the photo of the plane, which is gaining record speed, it’s generally 5 points

                And the word "example" is familiar to you?
                And yes, the photo from the report on this event is also not bad at all.
      2. Voyager
        Voyager 11 December 2016 14: 45
        0
        New ones will not receive a large increase in traction.
  12. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 11 December 2016 11: 54
    0
    Quote: Anchonsha
    Great. While they will develop the aircraft, it is necessary to further develop a new engine for it.

    In fact, the new engine undergoes full-scale tests, run-time verification and failure, operation stability, testing modes, etc. etc. According to plans in 2017 put on production cars. Wait and see. And for primary training, cars with an engine of the first stage will also go, the main thing is that avionics be completely ready and adapted, and armament / ammunition should be used. ready to use. soldier
  13. Krayt
    Krayt 11 December 2016 13: 40
    +1
    The Russian Air Force Su-50 are needed and the sooner the better.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 11 December 2016 13: 51
      +2
      Quote: Krayt
      The Russian Air Force Su-50 are needed and the sooner the better.

      look around ... if there is a wall, kill yourself about it ... believe me, the gene pool will not suffer.
      1. Krayt
        Krayt 11 December 2016 13: 53
        +2
        I’m not interested in the opinion of Chubais lost in Russia about the Russian gene pool! Go from here to your homeland and get clever there!
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 11 December 2016 18: 35
          0
          Quote: Krayt
          I’m not interested in the opinion of Chubais lost in Russia about the Russian gene pool! Go from here to your homeland and get clever there!

          I am already at home, and your slang is funny, where did you go? although ... don't say it, I'm not interested in that either ... see the video.
          1. Krayt
            Krayt 12 December 2016 11: 28
            0
            The homeland of the Chubais and Romodanovsky, like you, far beyond the borders of Russia .....
  14. Sergei75
    Sergei75 11 December 2016 14: 34
    +2
    No, it won’t, the engine is not ready, with the airframe material they are sophisticated and need to be changed, and this is a glider recalculation and a set of strength tests.
  15. Ktor
    Ktor 11 December 2016 14: 48
    +4
    This topic has already been discussed on the forum. The delivery time was largely disrupted due to the unavailability of a number of systems and improvements to individual elements (very large) of the airframe design. Naturally, the Air Force will not accept a "raw" car. It's okay, this is a normal process. Even if a couple of dozen of them were installed during this and next year - they are in the present pre-battle time - they would not play any role. There are other elements of deterrence and causing unacceptable damage to the enemy. So that the planes will appear, but when is not the most important question. The main thing: even the existing machines fly, weapons and equipment are registered on them, the process is going on ............... It takes time for them to become a full-fledged military aircraft. Even RLE is not even going to write ..... As for the tests in Syria. What is it for? There are also polygons in the country. Combat work in the SAR revealed the shortcomings of both aircraft and weapons systems and others - they must be eliminated. The flaws in high-precision weapons were also revealed - they will also be eliminated over time. In short, EVERYTHING WILL BE WELL.
  16. Zomanus
    Zomanus 11 December 2016 15: 11
    +1
    In general, we are very good with airplanes, and without the T-50.
    Engines for him are assembled and tested.
    I personally care more about the situation with engines for the Russian Navy.
    The plant is of course updated, the supercomputer was installed.
    And when will the serial engines go?
    1. ingener1966
      ingener1966 11 December 2016 16: 56
      0
      already wrote, a stand, for testing in Rybinsk already mounted, and you can dig the rest yourself ......
    2. mav1971
      mav1971 12 December 2016 11: 28
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      In general, we are very good with airplanes, and without the T-50.
      Engines for him are assembled and tested.


      Individual components are being tested.
      The engine will potentially be ready for serial production no earlier than 2020.
      If again, something does not come out.
  17. KKND
    KKND 11 December 2016 17: 12
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    If you cover the wall with soft mats and throw a ball at them, then it will simply plop around it, lose energy and fall near the wall. Also, a plasma formation absorbs the energy of radio waves. The plane is becoming invisible to radar.

    Are you a fan of the corpuscular theory of the origin of electromagnetic waves (light) belay
    It seems like it was broken in the 19th century.
    But seriously, the Nexus, like you are even a completely normal patriot of your (and mine) homeland.
    But then suddenly fantasies about plasma generators and other unrealizable equipment suddenly begin.
    Do you really believe all this? Or just pretend to believe? what
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 11 December 2016 17: 25
      +2
      Quote: KKND
      But then suddenly fantasies about plasma generators and other unrealizable equipment suddenly begin.

      You know, I’ve been quite a long time, for myself, since I am not a physicist, especially in the matter of plasma, I was interested in this topic. I myself did not understand how all this can work on a combat fighter, say. But the facts are a stubborn thing. The first plasma generators in the USSR were put on the MIG-29 and this is a fact ... after on the TU-160 in the bow ... why only there? Because at that time the problem of simultaneous operation of aircraft avionics and working generator. By the way, the person under the name SSI, who brought the first TU-160 to the concrete, will confirm to you that such work was carried out.
      If you think that this is all fantasy ... well, consider so.
      Quote: KKND
      Do you really believe all this?

      Yes, I believe. I will say more than that, I believe that this concept will be applied to our SU-35 and SU-30 fighters in the first place.
      At the same time, the issue of stealth coverage does not stand up to criticism. And this is shown by the results of using such a coating on the Raptor.
      1. KKND
        KKND 11 December 2016 17: 45
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        Yes, I believe. I will say more than that, I believe that this concept will be applied to our SU-35 and SU-30 fighters in the first place.

        Nexus, I'm sorry that I ran into you repeat In the end, everyone has the right to their opinion.
        I see today I got up on the wrong foot ...
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 11 December 2016 17: 56
          +2
          Quote: KKND
          Nexus, I'm sorry that I ran into you

          Everything is OK. I come here to chat with smart people, perhaps argue about something or learn something useful for myself. At the same time, over 3 years I found many friends and like-minded people here. This is important to me, and everything else ... I'm not afraid to be wrong, and I gladly admit my mistake.
          In particular, my opponents NARA and OPUS are deeply sympathetic to me, but they raise the question in the discussion incorrectly, as I believe, namely, this is not, because it cannot be. Well, this is their point of view, and I respect her.
          Time will judge us. I am often called an optimist here, but I see nothing wrong with that.
          I hope you will forgive me for the harsh tone. Your day went wrong, but I have a whole week. repeat
          Sorry, again.
          1. Krabik
            Krabik 14 December 2016 19: 39
            0
            As you yourself wrote, avionics, or rather aircraft radars, also suffer from plasma.

            Even if we assume that the aircraft will be covered with a plasma cocoon and it will reduce reflective radio emission, a new problem of plasma radiation will appear.

            And the plasma will glow even brighter than the reflected radio waves;)

            Comrade opus, from whom you get information too much copies it from the wiki without understanding%)
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. bald
    bald 11 December 2016 18: 59
    0
    Thanks guys !!! --- do it. In this watered. setting you are in !!! as needed.
  20. jonht
    jonht 12 December 2016 03: 02
    +1
    As far as I know, on the 4th generation (in any case, on our fighters) there are 3 control systems: 1. main radar 2. Optical station for detecting aircraft 3. warning system for irradiation and laser beam guidance. On new ones, a search system for thermal radiations was also added .... Based on the capabilities of modern missiles: long-range from 120 to 300 km, middle 60-120, short to 50 km (averaged values), optical systems will notice a missile launch from near and medium distances, thermal sensors, a maneuvering dog even within 100 km, radiation sensors should also work. The launch of the F-22 missile reduces its inconspicuousness and therefore a second attack will no longer be unexpected. And the video with the Americans is more like an advertising campaign, but with Rafal it is much more interesting and more truthful.
  21. Timku
    Timku 12 December 2016 08: 04
    0
    And what about the new engines - designed specifically for PAK FA? What are the deadlines for completing all work on them?
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 12 December 2016 11: 30
      0
      Quote: Timku
      And what about the new engines - designed specifically for PAK FA? What are the deadlines for completing all work on them?


      Now this is 2020 year.
      Ready for mass production.
      Planned.
  22. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 12 December 2016 10: 08
    0
    Well, as they say, God help you .... I hope there will be no postponements