Military Review

DNA analysis of Rurik: the point set. Russophobes infuriated!

145
DNA analysis of Rurik: the point set. Russophobes infuriated!Recent candidate article historical Lydia Groth's sciences about inconsistencies in the theory of Normanism caused a discussion of our readers about who the legendary Rurik was. Recall that Lydia Groth, relying on the official data of archeology, made a conclusion that is extremely inconvenient for many followers of Normanism:


In Sweden, no vessels were found that could cross the sea. Found so far only those that were suitable for coastal navigation. What comes out of it: Ruotsi from the Swedish rowers, the names of the Dnieper rapids, attacks on Amastrida and Constantinople, control of the Baltic-Volga route - everything floats on the water and disappears beyond the horizon of iridescent fantasy. Sveon Bertinsky annals also lose their Scandinavian citizenship, and the unfortunate khans / kagans do not need to freeze in the north. And so it will continue until suitable vessels are found, on which the coast could cross the Baltic Sea.

The question of who Rurik was was again the subject of fierce debate. However, in addition to the chronicles and archaeological finds, nowadays there is an opportunity to involve in the historical research and methods of the exact sciences based on the study of human DNA. It was this topic that was devoted to TV KM TV with Professor Anatoly Klesov, who, drawing on DNA analysis data, reported a whole series of information about the chronicle "founder of Russian statehood."

Those who want to know what exact science (DNA genealogy) says about the origin of Rurik can get acquainted with the following material:

Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2016/11/30/istoriya-rusi/789630-dnk-analiz-ryurika-tochka-postavlena
145 comments
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 8 December 2016 05: 46
    +12
    Yes, here we are ... And the fact that a lot of "scientists" got divorced to pull Russians closer to the Anglo-Saxons ...
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 8 December 2016 09: 20
      +10
      Quote: 210ox
      Yes, here we are ... And the fact that a lot of "scientists" got divorced to pull Russians closer to the Anglo-Saxons ...

      And who is hesitating - let him study the cards:

      On the sled, we are designated as wild tribes, but for some reason the civilized Romans beat their faces ....
      1. Mahmut
        Mahmut 8 December 2016 10: 38
        +30
        DNA analysis showed that Rurik was Yurik, and Macedonian was Shurik.
        1. vlad_vlad
          vlad_vlad 8 December 2016 18: 55
          +13
          Mahmut Today, 10:38
          DNA analysis showed that


          An analysis of the excavations showed that:
          - they found a phone in a landfill near Moscow - that means there are phones in Moscow
          - a wire was found in the layers of the earth corresponding to the 19th century in London - it means that there were landline phones in London in the 19th century
          - in the layers of the earth corresponding to the 1st century in Jerusalem did not find a wire - then in Jerusalem in the 1st century there were cordless phones
          1. GDP
            GDP 13 December 2016 11: 59
            +1
            One of the Slavic peoples referred to as Ruyan, Rana, (the Bavarians called them Russi) had their capital on an island in the Baltic Sea, which the Germans now call Rügen. In terms of life, they did not differ much from the Vikings, they also raided different tribes or drew tribute to them. They lost their independence in 1168, when Prince Jaromir became a vassal of the Danish king, and the island became part of the bishopric of Roskilde. So Rurik from the Varangian tribe could well have been a Slav ... But the genetic research of the Rurikovich will not yield anything, given the number of marriages with English and German princesses
      2. ver_
        ver_ 8 December 2016 13: 56
        +7
        ... John Kalita = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich = Batu Khan founded the Vatican = (Batu Khan) .. and gave a label on the reign of the French king ..
        1. Vend
          Vend 8 December 2016 18: 25
          +17
          Quote: ver_
          ... John Kalita = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich = Batu Khan founded the Vatican = (Batu Khan) .. and gave a label on the reign of the French king ..

          Hochma Hochmi, but Anna, daughter of Yaroslav the Wise, was the queen of France.
          1. ver_
            ver_ 9 December 2016 11: 47
            +4
            ..that was a great honor for the French King .. For he received the Emperor’s daughter as a wife ..
      3. Serg koma
        Serg koma 12 December 2016 21: 10
        +3
        Zillions - you. We - the darkness and darkness and darkness.
        Try, fight with us!
        Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, Asians - we,
        With slanted and greedy eyes!
        good
        1. Serg koma
          Serg koma 12 December 2016 21: 23
          +1
          And in general, the PUP of the LAND at US We are the center of the universe!)))
          Dial "Okunevo" ,,,
          According to Rasma, not far from Okunev there was once a magnificent temple dedicated to the monkey king Hanuman. He had seven domes, with each dome having its own purpose. The temple was both a spiritual and a scientific center. In his main hall was an unearthly jewel, which served as a means of long-distance space communications. Now the observatory temple is hidden underground. As a result, the hut of Rasma turned into an ashram - a Shivaite monastery, and Okunevo - to the place of pilgrimage of Babajis from around the world"

          Something like that laughing
        2. ver_
          ver_ 14 December 2016 09: 28
          +1
          ... oo- Block understood history like a pig in oranges ..
      4. Lukich
        Lukich 13 December 2016 13: 05
        +1
        Quote: Boris55
        On the sled, we are designated as wild tribes, but for some reason the civilized Romans beat their faces ....

        well, so "wild" Indians "civilized" crooks from all over the world not only muzzles. villainy they were able to drive them to the reservation
    2. Vend
      Vend 8 December 2016 10: 32
      +5
      DNA to help us Slavophiles. DNA of course this is wonderful, but the body of Rurik was not found.
      1. Ustrushan
        Ustrushan 8 December 2016 11: 37
        +11
        There are descendants: their blood and family tree have been preserved.
      2. V.ic
        V.ic 8 December 2016 13: 27
        +6
        Quote: Wend
        however, Rurik’s body was not found.

        In fact, after the trizny, the leader’s body was burned, as was customary among the Aryans.
        1. Vend
          Vend 8 December 2016 18: 23
          +2
          Quote: V.ic
          Quote: Wend
          however, Rurik’s body was not found.

          In fact, after the trizny, the leader’s body was burned, as was customary among the Aryans.

          Arias Arias, but Rurik was a Slav. The Slavs also burned their victims. Rurik died in Karelia. This is either a fortress or a locality. Find the grave, there you could figure it out.
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 8 December 2016 20: 37
            +3
            Quote: Wend
            Find the grave, there you could figure it out

            Well, yes, DNA analysis of ashes that have undergone oxidation over a thousand years ... negative Very smart... fool
            1. Vend
              Vend 9 December 2016 10: 10
              0
              Quote: V.ic
              Quote: Wend
              Find the grave, there you could figure it out

              Well, yes, DNA analysis of ashes that have undergone oxidation over a thousand years ... negative Very smart... fool

              The point is not in the ashes, but in what could be found in the grave.
              1. Serg koma
                Serg koma 12 December 2016 21: 15
                +1
                Quote: Wend
                however, Rurik’s body was not found

                When analyzing the DNA of descendants, the presence of the "primary source" (including the grave) is not necessary.
                The degree of kinship of hundreds of thousands of people can be established, and "calculate" who is to what extent closer to the "primary source" lol
          2. ver_
            ver_ 10 December 2016 03: 42
            0
            ..Khan John Rurik Varangian The Trojan is the grandson of Khan Gostomysl (a native of Novgorod) ...
      3. ver_
        ver_ 9 December 2016 11: 50
        0
        ..and the descendants of the bush of Rurik - Donskoy, Nevsky, John the Red (Nevsky brother) ...
    3. Serega86
      Serega86 8 December 2016 13: 02
      +5
      In the past few years, popular scientific texts by the biochemist and molecular genealogy specialist Anatoly Klesov have been very popular on the Internet. These texts are actively discussed at forums, they are referred to in discussions of political, ethnohistorical, archaeological and other similar topics. Judging by the Wikipedia article, Anatoly Alekseevich Klesov is a respected, recognized expert in his field of knowledge (note of Chemistry). But, as sometimes happens with specialists, going beyond the scope of their narrow specialty, they often fall into trouble. Especially those who are prone to rampant terminological innovation and peremptory statements in related fields of knowledge (note Genetics, History, Biology), where at least some kind of professional erudition is required. And, especially, in those cases when a well-deserved authority in the native sphere of knowledge makes a person (we are all human beings and not sinless) unresponsive to the arguments of opponents.

      It was with the light hand of Anatoly Klesov that the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a1 in the linguistic circles was named “Slavic”, “Aryan”, ““ Indo-European ”(the last term is quoted and quoted as obsolete); I recommend that anyone who does not know what the "Y chromosome", "haplogroup", "R1a1" deal with wikipedia. Moreover, among the “Slavs”, “Aryans”, ““ Indo-Europeans ”” according to Klesov, the population of Eastern Europe, India, the central regions of Asia, the Middle East - the entire vast territory of the distribution of the haplogroup R1a. Quite often Klesov calls “Slavs” and “Aryans” the ancestors of people who now speak the Baltic, Romance, Armenian, Arabic, Kyrgyz languages ​​and have a corresponding non-Slavic and, moreover, not Aryan, ethnic identity. Example: “At present, the share of Slavic Aryans of the haplogroup R1a1 in Lithuania is 38%, in Latvia 41%” (www.lebed.com/2008/art5375.htm).
      Isn't that strange? Why is the genus R1a1 specifically “Slavic”? Why not call it Lithuanian, Latvian, Albanian, Romanian, Kyrgyz? Really, only because “... in the south and in the center of Russia the share of East Slavs-Aryans reaches 60 – 75% and higher”, “And in ancient Russian and Ukrainian cities, towns, villages - up to 80%” (ibid.). Or maybe the fact is that Anatoly Klesov himself is a Slav and writes his popular opuses in Russian? In place of the Albanians, I would be offended. After all, it is in their present language territory that Anatoly himself discovered the ancient branches of the haplogroup R1a1 12 thousand years old. Or do you really want to push the native Slavs into the stone age in spite of other peoples? And at the same time to identify with the "praarii" and "pra-Indo-Europeans" in the spirit of ethnogenetic mythology, now popular in Russia. Such a "science" with a nationalist darling.
      http://haplogroup.narod.ru/no-klyos.html
      1. nikon7717
        nikon7717 8 December 2016 13: 39
        +8
        Quote: Serega86
        And at the same time to identify with the "praarii" and "pra-Indo-Europeans" in the spirit of ethnogenetic mythology, now popular in Russia. Such a "science" with a nationalist darling.

        How is it, sorry to understand? Those. declare the Aryans, the Romanesque group, the founders of civilization, because initially, the scientists involved in the development of theoretical foundations were from Europe, it is possible, under a political order, nationalism, there was no "smell", but as inertness in scientific circles someone wanted to curtail - Nizyayaya !!! Ttak?
        Or maybe the earth revolves around the sun? or all the well-known scientific veils suddenly became true dogmas, not subject to doubt, and it’s convenient to blame new ones for Nazism? Great!
        And where is your connection between language and nationality? "... By no means Slavic and, moreover, not Aryan, ethnic identity ...". Those. if I live in China, speak Chinese, observe local traditions, then am I not a Slav in your opinion? Ethnic identity well, 100% cannot determine nationality, roots and DNA.
        1. Serega86
          Serega86 8 December 2016 20: 14
          +1
          declare the Aryans, a Romanesque group, the founders of civilization, because initially the scientists involved in the development of theoretical foundations were from Europe.
          so write to them, these scientists, the conversation is not about them but about the "pseudo-professor of genetics"
      2. Sosnitsky
        Sosnitsky 8 December 2016 17: 55
        +4
        This says that in fact the whole of Europe is Slavic (Russian), in fact, as noted by the Slavophiles on the example of the similarity of European languages ​​with Slavic. Moreover, all the native white Europeans come from tons of Rus and their Celtic brothers, which they forgot about. The former lived along rivers, the latter along mountains, where the former drove them. Simple and tasteful. And the great two rivers in Europe - the Danube and the Dnieper are their homeland. The Dnieper is called Slavuta. As the Bible says - Japheth in the west and north, Ham in the south, and Shem in the east. Although Jews come from the Scythians, who are from the Black Sea and to the north and from the Baltic (mb and from the Atlantic) to the Altai and beyond. Moreover, this is only a short story of several tens of thousands of years. And under a million years, the Russians were all north including Alaska.
        1. Operator
          Operator 8 December 2016 21: 33
          +3
          A common for all homo sapiens haplogroup A was formed 200 thousands of years ago in Africa and remained there. 150 thousand years ago, African haplogroups A0, A1 and A2 separated from it, 60 thousand years ago - all other primary haplogroups existing in the world - from C to T.

          The Aryan haplogroup R1a separated from R 16 thousands of years ago in Altai. For 6 for thousands of years, the arias reached the Balkans and spread throughout Europe.

          By that time, Illyrians already lived in Europe - carriers of haplogroup I, separated from haplogroup IJ 25 for thousands of years and coming from the Middle East. The Illyrians were assimilated by the Aryans and Celts.

          The Celtic haplogroup R1b separated from R 12 thousands of years ago also in Altai. For 7 of thousands of years, the Celts reached Gibraltar and spread throughout Europe, crowding out the Aryans to the East of Europe.

          North and South America were inhabited 15 thousand years ago exclusively by carriers of haplogroup Q - Indians, with the exception of the Arctic regions inhabited by Mongoloids (Aleuts and Eskimos) - carriers of haplogroup C, which came from Asia 10 thousands of years ago.
          1. Serega86
            Serega86 10 December 2016 23: 33
            +2
            Aryan haplogroup R1a
            who told you that this haplogroup is "Aryan" Aryans is a linguistic term, Aryans are Indo-Europeans; otherwise, a lot of other nationalities belong to the descendants of Indo-Europeans, and not only those who have R1a
            1. Operator
              Operator 11 December 2016 01: 29
              +3
              Arias - this is the self-name of the people, recorded in the Rigveda and Avesta.

              The people consisted of tribes, each tribe - from clans, each clan - from families. The very first Aryan man knew how to use the unique haplogroup R1a (a set of mutations), his father had the basic haplogroup R1. All male descendants of the first aria have R1a, but differ in their subgroups (the so-called subclades).

              On the entire path of the Aryans from the birthplace of the patriarch (Altai) to Europe (from the Balkans to Karelia and from Norway to the Black Sea), only R1a of various subclades are found in the preserved bone remains with characteristic burials.

              5000 years ago, most of the Aryans were ousted from Western Europe by the Celts. Arias survived in Scandinavia (20-25 percent) and in Eastern Europe (80 percent). Part of the Aryans went to Central Asia, India, Iran and Asia Minor. Those remaining in Scandinavia were assimilated by the Illyrians, and in Eastern Europe they formed Slavic tribes.

              Unlike the Aryans, the Slavs are not genetically homogeneous, but R1a remains the dominant haplogroup (from 50 percent for Russians / Ukrainians / Belarusians to 60 percent for Poles), the rest are Illyrians 20 percent, ugrofinny 15 percent and others.

              With the exception of this rule, R1a is minor among the southern Slavs - they are dominated by the Illyrian I1 (Croats, Serbs and Slovenes) and the Hamitic E (Bulgarians and Macedonians).

              In any case, R1a in combination with I1 and E1 serves as a unique marker for the Slavs.

              For example, the dominant R1a in combination with C1 serves as a marker of the Kyrgyz, the dominant J2 in combination with R1a serves as a marker of the Persians, the dominant R1a serves as a marker of Pashtuns.
              1. Serega86
                Serega86 11 December 2016 02: 51
                +1
                The very first Aryan man knew how to use the unique haplogroup R1a
                about the haplogroup is it also written in the avesta or someone "for greatness" came up with? where are the proofs for such a weighty statement?)
                Klesov is not a learned geneticist and not an archaeologist. Why are there extracts from his pseudoscientific articles here?)
                1. Operator
                  Operator 11 December 2016 03: 37
                  +2
                  Are you a geneticist or an archaeologist? laughing

                  The haplogroup R1a was extracted from the bone remains found in the burials along with the material culture media described in the Rigveda and Avesta, dated by radiocarbon analysis at the same times, in places along the route of movement of the Aryans from Asia to Europe and back, etc. etc.
                  1. Serega86
                    Serega86 11 December 2016 04: 00
                    +1
                    Thanks to genetic studies of recent years, the presence of the most ancient preliterate history among Turkic peoples, rooted in millennia, has been reliably proved.
                    When the primary DNA information related to the proto-Türks was published, the representatives of academic science did not immediately accept them and were in doubt. And it was really incredible that the history of the Turkic peoples suddenly lengthened by several millennia.
                    Some representatives of the haplogroup R1a (M420)> (M198), (M417) (ancient Türks) about 5000 years ago from the South Caucasus in search of new pastures moved to the Eurasian Plain (Z93), (Z280). Another part of the ancient Turks (the ancestors of modern Azerbaijanis) remained to live in the South Caucasus (Z93), (Z2125), (Z2123), (Z280). (Underhill et al., 2014).
                    Subsequently, as a result of repeated migration, certain Turkic peoples returned to the territory of the historical ancestral homeland in the South Caucasus (Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, Huns, Kipchaks, Oghuz-Seljuks, etc.) and as a result they together with indigenous Turks formed the modern Azerbaijani people (Z93), (Z2125), (Z2123), (Z280).
                    “Ancient Turks”, “Cimmerians”, “Scythians”, “Huns”, “Oguzes” are basically the same people, but in different historical eras. They are connected by direct heredity, within the genus R1a. Most modern Turkic men have the same Y-chromosome, the same genus (R1a).

                    Between about 5000 years ago and later, the carriers of the haplogroup R1a1 moved eastward (Yenisei) in the west from the Danube, leaving a mark in the form of the Andronovo culture in northern Kazakhstan, the Southern Urals, Kyrgyzstan, in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, where fossils of the genus were found R1a1 [bouakaze et al, 2007; Keyseretal, 2009]. The age of the common ancestors of R1a1 in the South Caucasus is -4500 ± 1000 years, in Anatolia - 3700 ± 600 years, in Altai (Afanasyev culture) - 3500 ± 500 years

                    Based on the data of linguistics, archeology, anthropology, genetics, we can argue that Azerbaijanis with all modern Turkic peoples have the same ancestors who, with the collapse of the ancient Turkic community, began from the 4th millennium BC. migrated to new territories.
                    The South Caucasus for the Turkic peoples (historical ancestral homeland) is the initial landscape, this is how nature defined it, creating suitable conditions for the development of a common Turkic cattle breeding culture. Plains (gyshlagi), mountains (yaglagi), full-flowing rivers (Kura, Araks).
                    Therefore, initially the movement was from West to East, respectively, all movements of Turkic peoples from East to West are secondary migrations.
                    Some representatives of the haplogroup or genus R1a (ancient Türks) about 5000 years ago moved from the South Caucasus to the Eurasian plain (Underhill et al., 2014).
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 11 December 2016 21: 00
                      +1
                      What do you smoke: title Turks are Turkmen, but their dominant haplogroup is Celtic R1b (over 60 percent).

                      Azerbaijanis are generally Semites - the sum of the haplogroups J1 and J2 in their genotype is 57 percent.

                      The fact that the non-native languages ​​of the Turkmens and Azerbaijanis belong to the same linguistic group is the "merit" of the Mongols (haplogroup C2), who culturally assimilated both the former and the latter.

                      The peoples who came under the Mongolian ice rink also include Kyrgyz (55 percent R1a), Tatars (40 percent R1a), Bashkirs (40 percent R1b), Turks (35 percent R2b) and Uzbeks (30 percent J2 and their native languages ​​also culture.

                      On the territory of the CIS, only Kazakhs (40 percent C2), Kalmyks (50 percent C2), Buryats (60 percent C2), Tuvinians (70 percent C2) and Tungus (80 percent C2) are purebred “Turks” who have preserved their native languages ​​and culture. ...
                      1. Serega86
                        Serega86 11 December 2016 21: 32
                        +1
                        I do not smoke, but you nationality is not determined by the entire 1 haplogroup, in the text above the name and year of research - Underhill et al., 2014
                        if you please provide the same scientific work where Klesov’s reasoning will be written in black and white and preferably not
                      2. ver_
                        ver_ 13 December 2016 16: 51
                        0
                        ..Sociate sir - Mongolia was formed in 1920 .. The Tatars are not a nation. Volga Bulgars became Tatars in 1920 by the decision of Ulyanov = Lenin = Blanca ..
                2. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 11 December 2016 23: 49
                  0
                  Quote: Serega86
                  Klesov is not a learned geneticist and not an archaeologist. Why are there extracts from his pseudoscientific articles here?)

                  And more specifically? What are your complaints about Klesov?
            2. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 11 December 2016 23: 47
              0
              Quote: Serega86
              arias is a linguistic term, arias are indo-europeans differently a lot of other nationalities belong to descendants of indo-europeans and not only those who have R1a

              And who are the Indo-Europeans? And why not the African Australians? smile
        2. Serega86
          Serega86 10 December 2016 23: 30
          +1
          This says that in fact the whole of Europe is Slavic (Russian)
          Slavic and Russian are two different concepts, Slovenes, Slovaks are NOT Russian but separate peoples, while there were no Russians as an ethnic group yet, do not talk nonsense
          Moreover, all the native white Europeans come from tons of Rus and their Celtic brothers, which they forgot
          you need to watch less rent, genetic data suggest otherwise



          "forgotten" smiled at all, as if someone was to thank someone else should have enough fluff to throw on and draw something that was not
      3. Shishiga
        Shishiga 10 December 2016 16: 57
        0
        Example: “At present, the share of Slavic Aryans of haplogroup R1a1 in Lithuania is 38%, in Latvia 41%” (www.lebed.com/2008/art5375.htm).

        And in what language, in your opinion, was all the documentation in the Principality of Lithuania, in Lithuanian or in Estonian ???
      4. thumb
        thumb 13 December 2016 11: 27
        0
        Sergey, did you yourself read Klesov’s books?
  2. Butters
    Butters 8 December 2016 05: 56
    +13
    In Sweden, no vessels capable of crossing sea spaces were found.


    Privately, and there were no Vikings either. And the Scandinavian settlements in America, in Greenland, and in Iceland were not found. And the Vikings did not terrorize the population of Europe (including England) for several centuries.
    Thank you, opened your eyes at last.
    1. aleks700
      aleks700 8 December 2016 06: 26
      +3
      ,
      and did not find in Iceland
      Right. Iceland is still an uninhabited island.
    2. inkass_98
      inkass_98 8 December 2016 07: 29
      +2
      Quote: Butters
      And the Vikings did not terrorize the population of Europe

      And they did not enter the Mediterranean either. And in Greenland and America, traces of Viking settlements were planted by aliens, who, by the way, insidiously threw the concept of "Vinland" into Scandinavian written sources.
      1. Alexander Maltsev
        Alexander Maltsev 8 December 2016 16: 21
        +6
        Settlements in America, Iceland, France and, even damn it on Sicily are Norman. And, for, for the gifted, - NORMAN!
        1. inkass_98
          inkass_98 9 December 2016 07: 20
          +1
          For the gifted I explain:Normans (Normans, Nurmans, Vikings, lit. "Northern people") - a term used by the inhabitants of Western Europe in relation to the Scandinavians who devastated the sea robber raids of the state of Europe from the 8th to 11th centuries. Part of one of the Scandinavian tribal formations - the Danes - settled on the northern coast of France, where it recognized the nominal vassal dependence on the Franks. Another part, mainly Norwegians, settled in East Anglia, where it mixed with the local population. Many historians identify the Varangians with the Normans (see Norman theory).
          Stupidly taken from all beloved and hated Vicki. Vikings, Varangians and other nicknames were given not to a specific people, but to people from Scandinavia. Rude is not necessary, my dear, we have not grazed sheep together.
    3. andj61
      andj61 8 December 2016 08: 24
      +16
      Quote: Butters
      Privately, and there were no Vikings either. And the Scandinavian settlements in America, in Greenland, and in Iceland were not found. And the Vikings did not terrorize the population of Europe (including England) for several centuries.

      No need to pull a cow in the bathhouse! It is said in the article about Swedes-sweons, but not about Norwegians -orgs! Namely, the Norgs founded settlements in Iceland, Greenland, and even on the current Newfoundland.
      The norgs just sailed, the ships also had raids - the wikis went (from the name of the raid - vik - and the word Viking comes, and there is no hint of nationality at all) - as well as the Danes, Danes, as well as the Slavs - kashugi, encouraged and others Varangians. But the Swedes did not have ships. And they began to build them a little later thanks to close ties with the Danes who owned Norway and part of Sweden.
      And it also talks about the origin of Rurik. Disputes have been going on for a long time, but there was no decisive argument in favor of Slavic or Scandinavian origin. Can DNA analysis be such an argument? Quite possible. If only to conduct this analysis of the remains of Rurik ...
      1. jjj
        jjj 8 December 2016 10: 26
        +10
        Well, if you remember about "Walking Beyond the Three Seas" by Afanasy Nikitin and project it onto the Vikings, then it may happen that the Vikings are also us. Let's remember, later, the Novgorod ushkuyniks went to plunder the Horde just like the Vikings. And Stepan Razin was not much different from the Vikings in campaigns.
      2. Butters
        Butters 8 December 2016 16: 30
        +1
        I don't even want to argue, taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age: "The Vikings who invaded western and eastern Europe were chiefly pagans from Denmark, Norway and Sweden. They also settled in the Faroe Islands, Ireland, Iceland, peripheral Scotland, Greenland, and Canada. "

        Translation: "The Vikings who attacked eastern and western Europe were predominantly pagans from Denmark, Norway and Sweden. They also established settlements in the Faroe Islands, Ireland, Iceland, along the perimeter of Scotland, Greenland and Canada."

        Sweden, Karl!
    4. vlad_vlad
      vlad_vlad 8 December 2016 17: 24
      +7
      sometimes you open VO, read the "opinion" and think unprintably - where do these people come from, where did they study, what do they read?
      and you understand that the day is not far off when someone on VO proves that the land is on elephants, so the Vikings would fall from the ball and would not get to the other shore, and everyone who thinks wrong is Russophobia.

      I don’t understand why it was so important for some "patriots" whether Rurik was a Viking or not? what does it change?
      1. Signore Tomato
        Signore Tomato 8 December 2016 21: 46
        +4
        Quote: vlad_vlad
        and...
        I don’t understand why it was so important for some "patriots" whether Rurik was a Viking or not? what does it change?


        This is all because all sorts of skakls and their sympathizers constantly squeal joyfully about the fact that "they could not even have their own king, they put a stranger in the kingdom."
        It's a shame, you know.
        Articles of this kind are needed because they open their eyes to the many inconsistencies in the modern interpretation of the official history of various historical things.
        And that all modern "history" is a reprint of the stories of German visionaries invited by Peter I to "advance the natural sciences in the Russian land."
    5. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 8 December 2016 18: 13
      +4
      In Sweden, no vessels capable of crossing sea spaces were found. So far, only those that were suitable for short-sea swimming have been found.
      I don’t understand why they had to cross the Baltic Sea, they had coastal vessels and it was quite possible to sail along the northern and southern shores. It was also possible to cross through the Åland Islands, where it is 50 km from the Swedish coast and in good weather with oars you can swim in a few hours.
  3. BABA SHURA
    BABA SHURA 8 December 2016 05: 57
    +3
    We had no doubt!
  4. aleks700
    aleks700 8 December 2016 06: 21
    +2
    And so it will remain until suitable boats are found on which the svei could cross the Baltic Sea.
    Baltic Sea? You can cross on a log. Interestingly, but from Sweden to Denmark, too, did not swim? Waited for the bridge to be built?
  5. Stinger
    Stinger 8 December 2016 06: 25
    +4
    Here we are in Khopre!
  6. Basil50
    Basil50 8 December 2016 06: 49
    +21
    The fact that the Varangians and RURIK himself were Slavs has long been known. Normans, if they got to Russia, only as merchants and * behaved * very quietly. Of course, there were mercenaries from Normans in Russia, but these were units and they did what RUSICHI never agreed to.
    This was under the Romanovs, who * calibrated * with the German royal houses, it was necessary at least somehow to justify their own * non-Russianness *. By the way, they * were calibrated * by the Romanovs only in order to emphasize their own * God's chosenness * also by imported wives-husbands. The hired * writers * figures from history then made up history and made manuscripts to order.
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 8 December 2016 06: 54
      0
      Of all the emperors of RUSSIA, only Peter married not a * princess *. It is possible that this also pushed subsequent emperors to marry natives of the royal families.
    2. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 8 December 2016 08: 42
      +4
      The Ambassador of France to Russia in the years 1915-1916, Maurice Paleolog, estimated that Nikolai 2nd by blood is only 1/128 “Russian”, and everything else is German (Robert Massey. Nikolay and Alexander. M., 1990, p. 212). But this is not the whole truth ...

      Tsarina Alexandra Fedorovna, wife of Nicholas II, forbade the re-publishing and distribution of the Gothic Almanac across the Empire - the only aristocratic magazine in the world devoted only to legitimacy, i.e. the full legal legitimacy of all dynasties in Europe (A. A. Mosolov. At the court of the last Russian Emperor: Notes by the Head of the Chancellery of the Ministry of the Imperial Court. M., 2, p. 1993), which provides evidence that Russia is ruled by the “Golstein-Gottorp dynasty Romanovs ”(Ibid.). In fact, the Hessian fly slipped by Nikki - Alix - a hemophiliac, because of which the dynasty was physiologically doomed, dictated the conditions.
      1. apricot_45
        apricot_45 8 December 2016 09: 47
        +4
        Alix is ​​a hemophiliac, because of which the dynasty was physiologically doomed, dictated the conditions.

        Women did not suffer from hemophilia, they were only carriers of this bad gene
      2. nikon7717
        nikon7717 8 December 2016 16: 07
        +7
        HA ha. I will surprise you. There is much to be surprised at. All these Prussian dynasties, whom Russian emperors married with terribly "German" surnames, turn out to be founded by the Slavs, all roots from Russia. Study their genealogy earlier than the 16th century.
        Remember the founder of the Great Polish Kingdom - the legendary King Jagiello. Who was that? Let me remind you. Lithuanian prince. Who are litas, Balts, Curonians, Drevlyans, Ests, from the territory of the modern Baltic, Poland, do not remember from the course of school history? Yes! SLAVIC tribes on the western border of Russia. plus Jagiello had relatives with the princes of Novgorod and others. Who then are the Poles, the former glades of the rules? How do they behave? Yes, as well as the Balts, like relatives who forgot blood ties. How is it treated in the family?
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 8 December 2016 16: 45
          +1
          nikon7717 but besides ha ha link please throw? belay
    3. Slon_on
      Slon_on 8 December 2016 10: 40
      +7
      Everything is right, Rurik, like all Slavs of pre-Christian times, worshiped Perun Molnieruky and other Slavic gods, and not Odin, Loki, Frey, etc. The Varangians are Slavs who lived not on the shores of the southern Baltic Sea (the region of the current Schleswig-Holstein is Rügen (Ruyan). And they went on military campaigns - on wikis, like nurmans, sveis and dans. So considering Vikings as a nationality is a lie. And there was also a period when the Baltic Sea was called the Varangian Sea.
  7. Deck
    Deck 8 December 2016 06: 59
    +9
    When Lydia Grot, Ph.D. in History, becomes a doctor, she will have money to go to the Vikingskipshuset Museum in Oslo. This is certainly not Sweden, but the Vikings were not in the know. Yes, and not far by land.
    I’m probably Russophobe because I’m furious from such articles.
    1. activator
      activator 8 December 2016 10: 34
      +11
      Quote: Deck
      I’m probably Russophobe because I’m furious from such articles.

      Perhaps you’re right, it sits somewhere deep on the level of gene memory, for example, I experienced a similar feeling for the first time in the fourth grade when I began to study the history of the ancient world. I quickly leafed through the textbook and at the end of the section there were several paragraphs about glades and drevlyans who led the tribal way life, unlike the Egyptians and others who managed to create civilizations. I asked the teacher, what did we have in the days of the Egyptians? Well, the answer was like our ancestors sat on birch trees with bare asses and nibbled the bark and now believe it caused me what that feeling of indignation, I don’t believe, everything inside me was screaming and it seems like a snot in the fourth class that you would understand even more so if the whole teacher said to you, but is there some kind of scent
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 8 December 2016 10: 42
        +9
        Activator, support, completely and completely.
        In the same way, in the lessons of history, when for the third time they began to study how the next hordes poured into the West from the East (the first - the resettlement of peoples, the second - the Huns, the third - the Tatars, the fourth - Russian Cossacks in Paris, the fifth - the Red Army in Berlin. .....) -
        that kind of de j-vu swept over me.
        I think, yes, that this is for everyone in Europe, as it is smeared with honey. There is no such thing. It looks like the same thing, but smeared over the centuries. three times. Or four.
        At 35, I came across a New Chronology! And after HX - to the newest, supernova, archinovaya. Just a week ago, I came across Oleg Dvurechensky.
        What is most interesting is that there is no mess in the head. And it’s a perfectly well-formed picture. Where and research Klesov quite calibrated lie.
        So it goes.
      2. activator
        activator 8 December 2016 11: 00
        +2
        Damn koment not published all over. So I’ll finish. Now there is a lot of information on this subject and here you either accept it at some subconscious level or not and you can now wave the tricolor and beat yourself with your heels in the chest showing what kind of Russian you are and at the same time for similar articles, or articles about the Slavic Vedas, or Arias turn into a malicious antagonist and shout that this could not be and here I have a question who is who
  8. baudolino
    baudolino 8 December 2016 08: 06
    0
    But Rurik seemed to have Danish roots, not Swedish ...
    1. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 8 December 2016 12: 55
      +10
      Slavic he had roots!
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 8 December 2016 15: 40
        +3
        Yes, he was an ancient Egyptian.
  9. CONTROL
    CONTROL 8 December 2016 08: 51
    +2
    Klesov overly trusts surface DNA analyzes.
    The connection at this level of all living and material is much deeper: https://www.planet-kob.ru/articles/5226.
    So - nationality here has a very indirect meaning. But the spirit, spirituality - brought up and raised in a certain way - they "make" both the nation and Rurikov; reproduce both Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko and Cromwell. and Hitler and Stalin ...
    1. jjj
      jjj 8 December 2016 10: 31
      +6
      The blood of North Germans, Swedes, and North Poles in genetics is practically no different from Russian blood. In any case, the southern Slavs have a different blood. In general, the Russians are not Slavs, but Arias
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 8 December 2016 15: 40
        +5
        What arias and whom do Russians sing?
  10. Batia
    Batia 8 December 2016 08: 58
    +9
    I don’t care! Russia is a great power, and hto there in the past there was a great deal of thanks and honor for what they created.
  11. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 8 December 2016 09: 17
    +7
    Why be surprised? Our history is constantly rewritten by the Germans or the Jews and hammers that we are Russian semi-animals, which means that we can be oppressed and robbed.
  12. aszzz888
    aszzz888 8 December 2016 09: 35
    +3
    Tomorrow ukronatsiki will say that Rurik was a Khokhl, and together with all the ancient Ukrainians, he was digging the Black Sea! bully
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 8 December 2016 10: 07
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      Tomorrow ukronatsiki will say that Rurik was a Khokhl, and together with all the ancient Ukrainians, he was digging the Black Sea! bully

      laughing good If Adam was a Ukrainian according to the "puppies" version, then Rurik wassat
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 8 December 2016 10: 37
        +1
        Rurikovich


        Andrew, right on topic good
      2. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 8 December 2016 10: 46
        +5
        Ukronatsiki already said - they say, Alexander Nevsky was a relative of Batu. And the grandson or who is Genghis Khan there. Accordingly, he spread rot so much not so much against the Swedish-German suffocates as he scoured over Kiev and dill.
        Count, fat with chocolate forced to smear and drink cola. Well, weirdo, damn it!
        The Prosecutor General of Ukraine issued this pearl. Not me.
        1. activator
          activator 8 December 2016 11: 42
          +3
          Quote: Bashibuzuk
          The Prosecutor General of Ukraine issued this pearl. Not me.

          It is sinful to scoff at a sick person, you look at him at his wife, they have nervous problems.
        2. ver_
          ver_ 13 December 2016 16: 54
          0
          Nevsky is the son of Khan Batu = John Kalita = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich ..
  13. Operator
    Operator 8 December 2016 09: 55
    +3
    The intrigue is that the remains of the direct descendant of Rurik, Grand Duke Yaroslav the Wise, buried in the sarcophagus in the St. Sophia Cathedral in Kiev (which was opened in the 1936, 1939 and 1964 years, as a result of which the sculptural portrait of the prince was restored) were not found at the next opening of the sarcophagus in 2009 year.

    Most likely, they were seized during the German occupation of Kiev and taken to the West by representatives of the Greek Catholic Church. In this regard, it is impossible to make DNA analysis of the remains.

    In the interview, the intrigue with the infidelity of the wife of Yaroslav the Swedish princess Ingegerda (Western Slavic mother) was also not disclosed - before marriage, she was engaged to the king of Norway Olaf II, but her father broke his promise and gave his daughter out for Yaroslav the Wise. Her former fiancé Olaf II lived in Kiev for about a year during his exile from Sweden, after which Ingegerda gave birth to the son of Vsevolod, the future Grand Duke of Kiev, who continued the Rurik family.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 13 December 2016 17: 00
      0
      .. Nonsense: - Vsevolod is the son of Rurik (grandson of Gostomysl) .. Yaroslav the Wise = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich can only be named the parent of his father in a fool ..
  14. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 8 December 2016 10: 05
    +8
    I generally have too many questions for official history fellow
    And personally, I am convinced that we must generally review the entire history of Russia, right up to the Romanovs yes
    And 300 years, supposedly a yoke, I personally consider nonsense. How questions arise for Kievan Rus - there are also many inconsistencies and appeals to the ears request And modern geographic and toponymic realities also show the failure of Veliky Novgorod to find where it is now like ...
    There are logical questions that academic historians cannot give logical answers, but come up with different nonsense and make them believe only on the basis that their opinion is official request
    This is just my personal opinion. hi
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 8 December 2016 10: 55
      +7
      Very dangerous opinion, very.
      A little more, and a thuja heap of true stories will run ... oh, Aryans - and will explain that, say, go to Rome and look at the Colosseum. He literally says that his ancient Romans built. And the Slavs then walked in the skins. As if. And we have no archaeological finds. What does it mean?
      All sorts of Arkaim and other antiquities - not in a stream. They are not introduced into mainstream history.
      And the fact that in Russia the soil "breathes" annually, and in Italy and the Mediterranean one stone around is not taken into account.
      Imagine how much waste paper will have to be rewritten if it suddenly turns out that history is not the same as we know it. Moreover, God forbid, it turns out that the Slavs are the engines of history. This is the "groove" of all science.
      Here and somersault, as it turns out.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 8 December 2016 11: 01
        +3
        Quote: Bashibuzuk
        Here and somersault, as it turns out.

        Of course, if you are told throughout your life that black is white, and you suddenly come to the conclusion that it is black, then breaking will be awesome. But so far only in your brains. The same goes for states. It just happens to be very difficult to admit that the truth is not the same as it is being imposed on us, and there are a thousand reasons for not making a coup of consciousness under any suitable and not very pretexts ...

        Do you want to change something? - and live in a fictional world in which you successfully make people believe request drinks hi
      2. Stanislas
        Stanislas 8 December 2016 17: 05
        +5
        Quote: Bashibuzuk
        And the Slavs then walked in the skins. As if ... All sorts of Arkaims and other antiquities are there - not in a stream
        The Slavs then wore the usual clothing by the standards of the time. And in Arkaim, what, the suit of the ancient astronaut was found? To search in ethnicity is not even a temporary passionarity, but in general some kind of stamp of historical chosenness - this is not our method.
        1. lexx_sv
          lexx_sv 14 December 2016 21: 48
          +1
          Quote: Stanislav
          To search in ethnicity is not even a temporary passionarity, but in general some kind of stamp of historical chosenness - this is not our method.

          But - quite their method. It is pleasant to feel like the Chosen One, elevated above others. The source of modern European Civilization, no less. Digging up Black ..., pah - that's another story ...
          1. Stanislas
            Stanislas 15 December 2016 08: 00
            0
            Quote: lexx_sv
            It's nice to feel like a Chosen One
            This pleasantness even has a name - Manka Velichko. smile
    2. Old warrior
      Old warrior 8 December 2016 12: 21
      +2
      I agree. The story should be a report, not a comment.
  15. Dekabrist
    Dekabrist 8 December 2016 10: 30
    +3
    With the grinding of the people, "reformers" appeared. These guys are simpler, more bark than bite. When these individuals are hatched, probably, some kind of “punchers from science” will appear.
    Who agreed to print the "performance" epistolies of L. Grotto? Well, of course, the “super-scientific” publishing house Algorithm, which made itself famous for the publication of such scientific bodies as Mikhail Zadornov and Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

    Anatoly Alekseevich Klesov a respected, recognized expert in his field of knowledge (note of Chemistry). But, as sometimes happens with specialists, going beyond the scope of their narrow specialty, they often fall into trouble. Especially those who are prone to rampant terminological innovation and peremptory statements in related fields of knowledge (note Genetics, History, Biology), where at least some kind of professional erudition is required. And, especially, in those cases when a well-deserved authority in the native sphere of knowledge makes a person (we are all human beings and not sinless) unresponsive to the arguments of opponents.
    Therefore, all this has nothing to do with serious historical discoveries.
    1. Operator
      Operator 8 December 2016 12: 38
      +2
      Judging by the comment, you are a big dock in DNA genealogy laughing
      1. Dekabrist
        Dekabrist 8 December 2016 13: 12
        +2
        No, DNA genealogy is not my specialty. Like those referenced in the article.
        1. Operator
          Operator 8 December 2016 13: 15
          +2
          Then you dock in the definition of dock laughing
          1. Dekabrist
            Dekabrist 8 December 2016 15: 05
            +2
            I just have a good friend, I constantly attract him.
  16. Potter
    Potter 8 December 2016 10: 33
    +8
    Quote: Rurikovich
    I generally have too many questions for official history fellow
    And personally, I am convinced that we must generally review the entire history of Russia, right up to the Romanovs yes
    And 300 years, supposedly a yoke, I personally consider nonsense. How questions arise for Kievan Rus - there are also many inconsistencies and appeals to the ears request And modern geographic and toponymic realities also show the failure of Veliky Novgorod to find where it is now like ...
    There are logical questions that academic historians cannot give logical answers, but come up with different nonsense and make them believe only on the basis that their opinion is official request
    This is just my personal opinion. hi

    So where was Veliky Novgorod? Where have they found and are still finding birch bark letters? Where is the Yaroslav's courtyard still standing? Sophia Novgorod Cathedral? Novgorod and Pskov, unlike most Russian cities, built a lot of stone and preserved many buildings of the 11-13th centuries on their land. They were not affected by the "yoke".
    So there is no need to search for Veliky Novgorod 10 km from Kiev.
    And Tour Heyerdahl, among other things, considered the Vikings to be Slavs.
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 8 December 2016 11: 24
      +10
      Quote: Potter
      So where was Veliky Novgorod?

      Quote: Potter
      So there is no need to search for Veliky Novgorod 10 km from Kiev.

      First, I'm not looking near Kiev wink
      Secondly, even a person with a narrow mind should have enough logic to wonder why, given the existing Nizhny Novgorod along the course of one river, there is no ordinary NOVGOROD on this same river? But he is drawn, God knows where in the west and despite the fact that around him there are not many satellite cities that would undoubtedly arise near a large metropolitan city? But there is such a cluster in Russia, upstream of the Volga, in the Yaroslavl region. And if, following the logic, we accept that Yaroslavl was Veliky Novgorod at the time and Nizhny Novgorod was downstream of the Volga, then much becomes clear. And greetings to the German Schloetzers-Müllers with the Romanovs, who drew a modern history that you are afraid to go against.
      Quote: Potter
      Where is the Yaroslavovo courtyard still standing?

      Where it was by logic, and not by direction from above - in Yaroslavl request Yaroslavl with satellite cities was Veliky Novgorod, while the Volga was the highway of those times, really connecting Russia. And "Veliky Novgorod" modern is falling out of any logical outline of development, like Jerusalem, standing in the desert despite all the appearance of cities along the coast or on the rivers yes
      Quote: Potter
      Sophia Novgorod Cathedral?

      And in Kiev there is St. Sophia Cathedral, and in Polotsk there is St. Sophia Cathedral. So, are they also Great Novgorod? wink
      Quote: Potter
      Novgorod and Pskov, unlike most Russian cities, built a lot of stone and preserved on their land many buildings of 11-13 centuries.

      At that time, a lot of things were built of stone, but the question is when exactly were today's Pskov and Novgorod built? historians can say that in the 11th-13th centuries, but in fact in the 14th-15th ... there is a variant with the Schliemann Troy. - he said that he had found Troy and everyone believed him, because the excavated couple of buildings can be attributed to the time to which you wish. The question is, were these two walls of Troy really? So Pskov and Novgorod ... Everyone says, but is it really so ...
      But in Yaroslavl there are towers of an ancient city without walls, which is very similar to the times when the capital was transferred from Veliky Novgorod to Moscow, when the city walls were destroyed, thereby destroying its significance. Can this be said about modern Novgorod on Volkhov ??? wink
      Quote: Potter
      And Tour Heyerdahl, among other things, considered the Vikings to be Slavs.

      And I consider Rurik a Slav, and that if my opinion runs counter to the official Mueller version of the story, then I'm a heretic belay what ?
      1. igordok
        igordok 8 December 2016 12: 19
        +2
        Quote: Rurikovich
        But he is drawn, God knows where in the west and despite the fact that around him there are not many satellite cities that would undoubtedly arise near a large metropolitan city?

        The toponym Novgorod (New Town) is very common in Russia, as well as in the world.
        Novgorod had, as you put it, satellite cities. In Novgorod, they were called suburbs. Compared to Novgorod, they were small, but Novgorod did not need competitors to beat. Pskov was a suburb of Novgorod, but, feeling freedom, separated from Novgorod, selected the nearest suburbs (Porkhov and others), and often fought against it. Why does Novgorod need this?
      2. Operator
        Operator 8 December 2016 12: 46
        +1
        According to the Tale of Bygone Years, Novogorod (Novgorod) on Lake Ladoga was built in 862-864 by Rurik, the prince of the West Slavic tribe Rus, after the resettlement of the tribe from Porus (Prussia).

        Brother Rurik Truvor settled in Izborsk, and another brother Sineus in Beloozero.
      3. malik
        malik 8 December 2016 14: 40
        +1
        Novgorod Seversky. and where is the south? Enlighten
        1. Anatole Klim
          Anatole Klim 8 December 2016 17: 28
          +2
          Quote: Malik
          Novgorod Seversky. and where is the south?

          Novgorod Seversky does not mean northern. There was such a Slavic tribe - northerners, according to one version, they came from the Danube and founded Chernihiv, Putivl, Novgorod-Seversky and even Kursk. With Prophetic Oleg went to Constantinople.
          1. malik
            malik 9 December 2016 16: 04
            0
            And the bottom doesn't mean the bottom
      4. mervino2007
        mervino2007 8 December 2016 18: 08
        0
        That's right. There are also calculations of the time of the movement of troops to Novgorod, at different periods of our history, the initial data of which are taken from the annals, and they confirm that Novgorod is modern Yaroslavl. With the known durations of transitions, this cannot be modern Novgorod - too far away.
    2. igordok
      igordok 8 December 2016 11: 30
      +3
      Quote: Potter
      So where was Veliky Novgorod?

      Ancient Veliky Novgorod as well as Izborsk were somewhat away from the modern location. Within 2 km, the so-called fortifications. At present, the Novgorod Gorodishche is called Rurikovsky, and Izborsk - Truvorov. It is not known where the primary settlement of Pskov was located, but it is also possible not in the territory of Krom.
      Primary Settlements were wooden. But when they moved, then the stone went into business.
      1. Old warrior
        Old warrior 8 December 2016 12: 19
        +1
        And Moscow, in general, is much older than officially recognized ...
    3. ver_
      ver_ 14 December 2016 08: 04
      0
      ..and searched for their roots in the Smolensk region ..
  17. Potter
    Potter 8 December 2016 10: 37
    +2
    http://globeofrussia.ru/2016/01/vse-13-domongolsk
    ih-hramov-velikogo-novgoroda-i-okrestnostey /
    Where to get these temples from the land of Veliky Novgorod?
  18. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 8 December 2016 11: 19
    +1
    Gee-gee, Normans and various other Scandinavians, but you didn’t have the Slavs to rule over your nose, because at that time you couldn’t even cross the Baltic Sea. And who are the barbarians now?
  19. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 8 December 2016 12: 00
    +3
    That they did not say here, but Rurik was a Russ. Zidornov refers to Lydia the Grotto in his book. Who cares, read. After this book I will not argue about the origin of Rurik, everything is well laid out there on the shelves. In general, Rurik is a descendant of UKRO. To clarify, they dug up the Black Sea, Christ was also a shelter, Pavel Stepanovich Nakhimov was also a shelter. Stop, that's enough, otherwise it carried me somewhere.
    1. Old warrior
      Old warrior 8 December 2016 12: 16
      +3
      Dear, the vodka with fat cannot be brought to good. But the infections are delicious! lol
      1. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow 8 December 2016 14: 34
        0
        Not yet consumed.
  20. CONTROL
    CONTROL 8 December 2016 12: 10
    0
    It has been experimentally proved that a person and his environment are able to actively influence and change DNA - both their own and others! Through information fields, networks, structures - this is not clarified; but - the fact of changes is proven and recorded accurately.
    ------------------------
    So - karma is not such a fantastic and abstract concept! ... and if you were a janitor, you will be born again as a foreman, and after that you will grow from a foreman to a minister ... And if you are stupid, like a tree, you will be born a baobab, and you will be a baobab for thousands of years while you die!
  21. completely blind
    completely blind 8 December 2016 12: 10
    +5
    For the past six years, Italian archaeologists have argued that Rome was founded by the "disappeared" Etruscans. Who, by a strange coincidence (or is it natural?), Had a language, writing and typical household items, not just Old Slavonic roots, namely OLD RUSSIAN. (If anything, claims to "pasta"!) :))
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 8 December 2016 21: 38
      0
      Quote: completely blind
      Which, by a strange coincidence of circumstances (or naturally?) Had a language, writing and typical household items, not just Old Slavonic roots, namely OLD RUSSIAN. (If anything, claims to "macaroni"!) :))

      But they will NEVER admit it! The Etruscans have only one ending there - it is impossible to decipher the written language. Because if the Etruscans are recognized as Slavs, then the whole historical science of Geyropa will collapse wassat
      1. Operator
        Operator 8 December 2016 23: 04
        0
        The Etruscans migrated to the Apennine peninsula from Asia Minor (the region of Troy) in the 1 millennium BC.

        The Etruscans are not Slavs, but Semites assimilated by the Aryans - their language is a Sanskrit dialect. Since the Slavic languages, including Russian, are also Sanskrit dialects, they have the same words with the Etruscan language, similar syntax and grammar.

        Based on the simplification of the syntax and grammar of the Etruscan language, the Latin language was formed by the neighbors of the Etruscan Latins, which contains many words that coincide with the Etruscan and Slavic languages.
      2. ver_
        ver_ 14 December 2016 08: 15
        0
        ... you are mistaken - Etruscan writing has long been read as well as the Cretan disc - Grinevich .. This is all on the internet .. - read on health the Proto-Slavic writing ..
    2. Stanislas
      Stanislas 8 December 2016 21: 56
      0
      Quote: completely blind
      had a language, writing and characteristic household items not easily Old Slavic roots, namely OLD RUSSIAN
      Tell me, among the Old Slavic roots during the Etruscans (I millennium BC), besides the Old Russian, what else were there? Staroukr, by chance, there were no roots?
    3. lexx_sv
      lexx_sv 14 December 2016 21: 34
      0
      They didn’t disappear anywhere ... More precisely, they disappeared similarly to Ryazans, Tverichs, Pereyaslavlians. The Etruscans became Romans, the Ryazan-Tverichs became Russians. Conglomerates of tribes became imperial peoples.
      1. Stanislas
        Stanislas 15 December 2016 08: 22
        0
        Quote: lexx_sv
        Ryazan-Tverichi - Russian
        After the Battle of Kulikovo, many tribes became aware of themselves as Russians, among which were not only Slavic ones. Prior to this, the word "Russians" was a tribal name and was used rather from outside and in officialdom; just like today, for the Western media and ordinary people we are all Russians, for the authorities - Russians. This is ethnically, and religiously - semi-pagan tribes at this time united around Orthodoxy. But this was not in the XNUMXst millennium BC.
  22. Old warrior
    Old warrior 8 December 2016 12: 13
    +3
    I already knew that ... wink and finally Europe - Tse savages yes
    1. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 8 December 2016 13: 12
      +4
      Well, they didn't know what a bath was, why they invented perfumery, so that a hundred meters away from them they didn't smell like shit. but some all yell that "unwashed Russia"
  23. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 8 December 2016 16: 18
    +2
    We are all human, all human. Only for some reason they are looking for the roots of origin only in Russian. The rest were ABOVE this. They constantly lower us, and we sprinkle ash on our heads. Maybe something is wrong?
  24. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 8 December 2016 16: 20
    0
    Add-WHY I BECAME A CAPTAIN? And there was OGO-O-O !!!
    PS Honestly by ...!
  25. 3 Gorynych
    3 Gorynych 8 December 2016 17: 57
    +2
    Quote: Serega86
    I recommend to cope on Wikipedia.

    Dear - no offense, but a link to Wikipedia! forgive me "grandma said for two", even the authors of Wikipedia (written in small print) do not guarantee the accuracy of the information of their "encyclopedia". So somehow! Refer to scientific sources ... IMHO
  26. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 8 December 2016 19: 50
    +3
    Yeah. An article for fans of PR. Noah's ark did not have buoyancy, Archimedes did not have a bath, I did not sleep with Tanka from the second entrance ...
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 10 December 2016 09: 17
      0
      But what does Tanya think of the second entrance?
      It seems to me, she has a different opinion!
      ...
      The best comment, Leader .... in intelligence? We pick up the scalps. Or to Tank.
      How ...
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 10 December 2016 09: 58
        +3
        Well, let's go to Tank! Let me return only from a business trip)))) And then here only Greta, Laura and other Froilians))))
  27. Penzyac
    Penzyac 8 December 2016 21: 01
    0
    Quote: Old Warrior
    I already knew that ... wink and finally Europe - Tse savages yes

    Tse plebei ...
  28. a housewife
    a housewife 9 December 2016 01: 35
    +4
    I don’t know right! Here in the book I have the genealogy of the Rurikovich. Point one: Rurik is the prince of Novgorod. According to the most reliable data, he is the grandson of the Novgorod prince Gostomysl, from his daughter Umila. Maybe his dad was a Varangian, and so what. Genes, DNA ... Actually, not blood, not genes, but a person commits actions. Did he act like a Slav? What else does?
    1. ver_
      ver_ 14 December 2016 08: 23
      0
      .. on the stone of the Kings in Bulgaria the name of Gostomysl goes before Komnin .. The Gostomysl clan lost the Imperial crown due to the fact that all his sons fell in battle .. Only his daughters remained .. Khan John Rurik Varyag Trojan - grandson of Gostomysl along the Indian line - courtier at the court of Komninyh ..
  29. Comrade
    Comrade 10 December 2016 03: 50
    +2
    In Sweden, no vessels capable of crossing sea spaces were found. So far, only those that were suitable for short-sea swimming have been found.

    But what about the fact that the Vikings crossed the Atlantic? In Canada, there is an open-air museum, the remains of an ancient Viking settlement.
    1. lexx_sv
      lexx_sv 14 December 2016 21: 28
      0
      "But what about the fact that ..."
      And as in Ukria: if the facts do not fit into the theory - the worse for the facts :)))
  30. acrshooter
    acrshooter 10 December 2016 11: 54
    +2
    In my opinion all of these eggheads (and pseudo-historians from satirists wink ) it is time to isolate from society, because they have long gone mind behind the mind.

    In those ancient times in the Baltic, and not only in it, people were friends with each other, and they fought, quarreled, reconciled, went on hikes and to neighbors, and with them went to distant lands.
    Dynastic marriages were concluded both as part of a peace treaty, a condition of alliance, and for other reasons, and not always both marrying were princely.

    Therefore, to consider that Rurik is only a Slav or only, let’s say, is given (ancestor people of the Danes) Ali Saks, at least it’s stupid.
    And to what people Rurik himself attributed these boobies to the next world will ask if after death there is at all something harm to heaven or hell ...

    Dixi et animam meam salvavi!

    Regards to Comrad, Arthur
  31. bbss
    bbss 10 December 2016 12: 16
    +1
    What is it? Why the ridiculous pursuit of "Great Ukrai"?
  32. Nubia2
    Nubia2 10 December 2016 14: 59
    +2
    Quote: ver_
    ... John Kalita = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich = Batu Khan founded the Vatican = (Batu Khan) .. and gave a label on the reign of the French king ..

    your grass is picky ...
    1. Serega86
      Serega86 10 December 2016 23: 34
      +1
      ahahah, what just do not come up laughing
  33. would
    would 10 December 2016 16: 07
    +5
    Reading such articles, I remember Ukraine and how it all started there. If anyone does not know, then it all started with just the same mythologizing history. Such articles also evoke in me the same feelings as reading the Ukrainian works of the Ukrainian "historians".

    They have already written about how in Sweden "they did not find traces capable of crossing the sea", they have already written that the Swedes, to put it mildly, are not in the know and have completely crossed themselves without paying attention to the opinions of everyone who has not yet been born there. As well as about many other things, including very interesting personalities.

    But something else amuses me the most. When the Poles shoot in their world-famous film "With Fire and Sword" the Polish King Jan II Casimir, who at the same time, officially according to Polish history, was actually more of a Swede, there is no "polyakophobia" in this real heir to the Swedish throne. The Poles are fine with this, they are quite well aware and well perceived that their king was not theirs, but the king of Sweden. When they remember that the same Nicholas 2 is more likely a German emperor than a Russian, no one sees Russophobia in this either. When they remember that even the father of nations, Joseph Stalin, was actually a Georgian (news, right?), They also don't see any Russophobia in this. The Jews are not only not accused of anti-Semitism or how fashionable it is now to be anti-Semitic, but they themselves tell that they were a nation of slaves in Egypt and how they fled from there and wandered in the desert. And that's okay, this is the great story of the people of Israel!

    And after all, not only the listed rulers, or even more so monarchs, had a different ethnic identity. This was generally an extremely common situation, even until relatively recently, among many peoples and states. Even in the most British woman of Great Britain, Elizabeth II flows ... German blood. It was not without reason that before the First World War the Windsor dynasty was named Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. And nothing, everything is fine. Any resident of Britain, New Zealand, Australia must love the "good old Queen". And no anglophobia.

    But it is worthwhile only quite reasonably (and it is far from being only genetics or even written evidence) to declare that Rurik, who in the literal sense is very distantly related to modern Russia and the Russian people as such, was most likely immediately declared a Russophobe by Norman. Where does such a typical Ukranian national inferiority syndrome come from that even the most distant figures need to be made a titular nation? All my life I thought that Russia, with its huge and incredible history, does not need to invent something. But that's how it turns out ....
    1. Serega86
      Serega86 10 December 2016 23: 39
      +1
      But it is worthwhile only quite reasonably (and it is far from being only genetics or even written evidence) to declare that Rurik, who in the literal sense is very distantly related to modern Russia and the Russian people as such, was most likely immediately declared a Russophobe by Norman. Where does such a typical Ukranian national inferiority syndrome come from that even the most distant figures need to be made a titular nation? All my life I thought that Russia, with its huge and incredible history, does not need to invent something. But that's how it turns out ....
      in Russia everyone thinks that since now there is a "geyropa", then we cannot recognize even objective historical facts, we are good, everyone around is bad and it has always been like that
      The same is when they find, for example, an ancient treasure in Ugra, it turns out that it belongs to the ancestors of the Khanty who have always lived there, but some not the most intelligent personalities begin to write that there is no "Slavic burial." now it is the territory of Russia
      1. Operator
        Operator 11 December 2016 01: 41
        0
        You have the wrong information - the Khanty and Mansi came to Europe several millennia later than the Aryans.

        Khanty and Mansi at the time of their arrival and to this day are at a lower cultural level relative to the Aryans and their descendants of the Slavs / Russians.

        Khanty and Mansi basically could not have metal treasures, since their property consisted of hides, wooden stakes, bone products and stone axes. Metal products they began to appear only 100-200 years ago.
        1. Serega86
          Serega86 11 December 2016 03: 09
          +1
          You have the wrong information - the Khanty and Mansi came to Europe several millennia later than the Aryans.
          Arias is a linguistic term meaning Indo-European, Khanty and Mansi are Ugric peoples, they live not in Europe but in the Ural Mountains, settled down from the south of Siberia to the lower reaches of the Ob much earlier than the Slavs, that's why there is no need to try to justify their territory to Russians, Russians historically lived on the Russian plain and land they have not so much, the ancient burial sites that are not found on the Russian plain have
          not Slavic origin
          you also write that Derbent was founded by the ancient Aryans-Slavs who "came there much earlier"))))
  34. Cartalon
    Cartalon 10 December 2016 18: 15
    0
    I am a nationalist and an imperial, but the nightmare that this is happening is not what kind of gate doesn’t climb, do you even kill yourself, but Russia was not the Slavs, isn’t it that national pride already suffers from this?
    1. All1
      All1 14 December 2016 22: 16
      0
      Rus ruled Darth Vader?
      Gollum rules now Russia.
      The national pride of our citizens manifests itself on the roads, in the porches and lines.
  35. Salvodor
    Salvodor 10 December 2016 23: 16
    0
    Here are two programs here, as for me, a competent historian tells everything.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP_kcep7v2U
  36. Anatoly Morozov
    Anatoly Morozov 11 December 2016 16: 55
    0
    It’s already very few who dispute, but Peter 1 wouldn’t be in check
  37. Operator
    Operator 11 December 2016 22: 09
    0
    Quote: Serega86
    Underhill et al., 2014

    Check out

  38. Skifotavr
    Skifotavr 12 December 2016 15: 30
    0
    The fact that the Ruriks were not Germans or Scandinavians DNA examination established a long time ago, as well as the fact that the "Scythians" were not Iranians, Chinese or who knows who else. But what has changed from this? Have Russian textbooks started to write differently? Or do you think that someday they will fix it? So on ORT continues advertising an artistic feces called "Viking".
  39. lexx_sv
    lexx_sv 14 December 2016 21: 24
    0
    Quote: svd-xnumx
    the jumpers and their sympathizers constantly squeal joyfully about the fact that "they could not even have their own king, they put a stranger in the kingdom."
    It's a shame, you know.

    The British are not offended, but we are offended? Should the Germans and Italians also be offended that the national states in Europe were built later than all the neighbors? About "foreign kings" - look at medieval Europe and it is clear that this is not something unimaginably rare and unusual. And - no one is ashamed Neither the Hungarians for the Germans-Habsburgs, nor the French for the Corsican. The Lithuanians became catholicized, became involved in polonies, sold the faith and the Grand Duchy for the Polish zloty and the privileges - and now they are proud of "we had ON, we are great".
    And we again holier than the Pope want to be.
    Let the skippers screech - they generally have not worked out with the state-forming elite from a long time ago (only joy and there is something left to ride, "it is sinful to laugh at sick people"), but about Russia: it is known that the "Varangians" very quickly "became Slavic "and merged with the local Slavic tribal elite. Therefore, it is stupid to blame the ancestors for "calling a non-their" king. It turned out fine. Better than many.
  40. All1
    All1 14 December 2016 22: 12
    +1
    The author is sick!
    Here show me an article or video where Russophobes (Poles, Bandera, Latvians, etc.) are furious that Ruriks are Slavs!
    Either the fifth column seems, then the Masons, then Soros ...