Military Review

Own among strangers. Brave Czech soldier. 4 part, final

66
The project of a completely enclosed car with anti-ballistic armor was developed by BMM back in August-September 1943. The weapons control of the self-propelled guns was not interested. But the bomber command “interested” aviation allies who “for the promotion” of this machine simply bombed in the autumn of 1943 the workshop of the main supplier of assault guns of the company “Alkett”.


If in October 1943, the plant delivered the Wehrmacht a record number of StuG III assault guns (Sd.Kfz. 142 / 1), 255 machines, after the raid, in November - the entire 23 self-propelled unit. And on January 1944, another plaque brought additional problems.

“Alkett” reached the previous level only in May 1944. Against the backdrop of all these events, a report on the production of assault guns was presented in Berlin on December 6, 1943. The StuG III was clearly not enough, and the Pz IV chassis used for the Stug IV was much more needed for the actual production tanks! Prior to this, back in November 1943, BMM received an official order to complete the development of a “new type of assault guns” (Sturmgeschutz nA or StuG nA). The term of work is 1 month. But the final version was approved only on January 27, 1944.

Own among strangers. Brave Czech soldier. 4 part, final


The experience of creating the anti-tank installation "Marder" and SAU "Grille" has shown that the groundwork for modernization and improvement is considerable.

The terms of reference included the self-propelled gun 75-mm anti-tank gun PaK 39 L / 48 with a barrel length 48 caliber and 41 ammunition shot. The barrel was not equipped with a muzzle brake.

The required speed on the highway is 50-60 km / h. Reservations forehead and mask guns 60 mm; The thickness of the armor of the sides, stern and bottom and roof was 10-20 mm to save weight. The body is welded, in its form, the influence of the Jagdpanzer IV ACS, recently launched into a series, was guessed.

Directly the development was led by the founder of the Czech tank school, the chief designer of VMM, Alexander Surin (we mentioned it in the first article). Surin himself was by no means eager to work intensively for the good of Germany, and most of the time he tried to spend outside the CB, simulating a serious illness.



Even before the end of the tests, ACS was adopted under the abbreviation Sturmgeschutz nA, but at the initiative of G. Guderian the car was returned to the arms of the tank crew, and it received the designation Panzerjager fur 7,5 cm PaK 39 L / 48, and from 11 September 1944 of the year Jagdpanzer 38 () with the through designation Sd.Kfz. 138 / 2.

Often applied to the ACS name "Hetzer", according to Alexei Kalinin, self-propelled gun never wore. This is not confirmed by both German and Soviet documents (trophy of course).

It is believed that the German soldiers themselves called the “Hetzer” a car, but at the front, the German name of one of the breeds of greyhounds sounded like that. One of the significant drawbacks of the self-propelled gun was the weapon shifted to the starboard, which disrupted alignment. But despite this in the battles the car showed itself well.

To accelerate the mass production of ACS, the Germans decided to connect the company "Skoda" from Plzen. Only two firms (Škoda and BMM) until the end of the war released the order of 2827 (numbers are not exact) SAU Jagdpanzer 38 (t).

The cost of one installation was determined in 54 000 Reichsmarks - about half of the cost of the German self-propelled gun Jagdpanzer IV.

The first 23 serial machines were assembled in April 1944 of the year. By order of Hitler on July 19 1944, the release of tank destroyers Jagdpanzer-38 (t) assigned the highest priority.



October 4 The so-called “crisis” tank production program was adopted on 1944. The main goal is to reduce the range of manufactured armored vehicles and weapons, as well as the possible reduction in price of manufactured products. It was decided to leave the production of three types of machines: tanks "Panther" and the Royal Tiger, and SAU Jagdpanzer-38 (t) ausf. D (Deutschland - the car was supposed to be produced in Germany).

Release of the chassis Pz. III and Pz. IV was planned to stop. And all the production capacity to put on the above three machines.

Execute the program for obvious reasons failed.

In the army, new tank destroyers began to arrive in the middle of summer 1944. The first 45 SAU received the 731-nd separate anti-tank battalion (Panzer Jager Abteilung), the second part was the 743-nd separate anti-tank battalion. According to the state in the battalion there were three companies on the 14 machines, one more was assigned to the battalion headquarters. There should also have been four Bergepanzer-38 BREMs, but there is reason to believe that the units received them with a big delay. Machines of the battalion headquarters and company headquarters were equipped with two radio stations — the standard Fu-5 and the more powerful Fu-8.



Panzer Jager Abteilung No. 731 was assigned to Army Group North, Panzer Jager Abteilung No. 743 to Army Group Center. The first combat use took place in August. Individual battalions, as a rule, were reserves of the corps or army and were attached to units operating in the most threatened areas.

It is known that self-propelled guns appeared in Warsaw to suppress the uprising. But as is often the case, a typical and old as the world error has occurred: the underestimation of the enemy.

Self-propelled units were used without infantry support, thanks to which the rebels managed to set fire with the help of the Molotov cocktail at least one car, and another one to capture. Trophy tank destroyer took part in the battles on the side of the rebels from August 14.

The most amazing thing is that this car survived during the war and was later exhibited in the exposition of the Warsaw Military Museum. But in the end was put on scrap.

The 731 battalion destroyed hundreds of tanks, vehicles and guns before the end of the war. In November, the 1944 of the year receives a replenishment - 10 machines, in December another 20.

At the beginning of April, the 1945 of the battalion company supported the defense of the German divisions surrounded on the Kurland Peninsula; On 5, April, there were 27 tank destroyers in the battalion, of which only four vehicles were operational. Losses were significant enough. For example, the above-mentioned 743 Battalion received an 31 machine to compensate for losses only in February of the year 1945.





Also, Jagdpanzer 38 (t) were in service with the 741 Battalion (1 Company), 510 (2 Company and 3 Company), 561, 708, 744, and separate divisions of Juterborg and Schlesien.

After increasing the production of ACS, the Germans had the opportunity to form a company of tank destroyers as part of infantry divisions. The 14-th, 15-i and 76-i divisions on the Eastern Front were the first in the 335-tank company. By mid-autumn, the supply of cars began to grow. Training companies were formed, one each on the Western and Eastern fronts.

Hungary received from the Germans 50 SAU to replenish their parts. In February, 1945 showed serious signs of disintegration of the German military industry - various improvised units and subunits received self-propelled guns from 277 factories. In order to equip as many companies as possible, the staffing number of ACS in a company has been reduced from 14 to 10.

In April, 1945 on the front and in the rear came chaos, and yet the factories of the firms BMM and Skoda managed to produce more 200 machines.

The last unit to receive the “Jagdpanzer 38 (t)” was the 85 Infantry Division.

Parts of Pancerwaffe and SS tank units were assigned units of Jagdpanzer IV fighter jets, which had better weapons than Jagdpanzer-38 (t) and thicker armor.



But the release of these machines in reality could not cover the requirements of the army, so sometimes their place was occupied by the ACS Jagdpanzer-38 (t).

For example, the 10 Panzer Grenadier Division Reichsfuhrer SS in September 1944 received 10 tank destroyers, another 25 - in December and four - at the beginning of 1945. In January 1945, the division was redeployed to Hungary to repel the offensive of the Red Army.

One of the most powerful connections equipped with Jagdpanzer-38 (t) installations was the 104-I tank fighter squad (104 Panzer Jagd Brigade).

It consisted of six battalions of two company staff. To form this unit, in January 1945 of that year, the Germans resorted to the most reliable and proven method: they simply took and took the vehicles from the infantry and Volksgrenadier units. But still not enough at all. And the 1 Brigade Battalion received Sturmgeschutz IV assault guns.

According to the information available, the brigade operated in the area of ​​the offensive of the 2 of the Byelorussian Front, in the Army Group "Wisla" from February 1945.

It was supposed to use it as a single fist, but the realities were much more prosaic, the Germans had to crush the brigade, and use for patching holes in the front line.



In addition to the above subdivisions and self-propelled parts naturally used by other parts, especially considering the number of cars produced. But to mention all of them does not make sense. It is worth noting that despite all its shortcomings, the ACS turned out to be quite good. The car continued to be used for some time after the war. It differed manufacturability, the chassis itself was familiar to technicians and mechanics, as well as drivers. Therefore, it was not necessary to retrain hundreds and thousands of soldiers and technical staff. And the machine, of course, played its role in deterring the offensive of the Red Army on the Eastern Front. And thank God, we failed to fulfill the plan for more mass production (it was planned to build 11 000 units).

This is the end of such a long story about the Czech LT38 tank and its variations.

Indeed, the car was very successful, just fell into the wrong hands.

Sources:
Kalinin A. PANZERKAMPFWAGEN 38 (t). Design and manufacture. Tactical Press, 2013.
Baryatinsky M. Slavic armor of Hitler. Pz35t, Pz38t, Hetzer, Marder. 2009.
Kolomiets M. E-100 and other German 1945 tanks of the year. Last hope Pantservaffe. 2013.
Tornado. Military-technical series. 127. Panzer 38 (t) and machines based on it. Part IV.
Tornado. Military-technical series. 128. Panzer 38 (t) and machines based on it. Part V.
http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/tanks/germany/hetzer.htm.
http://tankfront.ru/.
http://waralbum.ru/.
Author:
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 28 November 2016 06: 19
    +9
    Yes. Czech soldiers shook our land hard. Conclusion. If there is a mess, the first nuclear attacks on Skoda, do not exact.
    1. svp67
      svp67 28 November 2016 07: 29
      +7
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      If there is a mess, the first nuclear attacks on Skoda, do not exact.

      What a generous man you are. A nuclear charge there, a nuclear charge here ... Are the Skoda factories producing tanks now? If not, why on earth are you going to destroy them with a NUCLEAR CHARGE?
      1. DanSabaka
        DanSabaka 28 November 2016 08: 10
        +3
        Do Skoda factories produce tanks? If not, why on earth are you going to destroy them with a NUCLEAR CHARGE?

        Logically ....
        Especially if you consider that Skoda has a plant near Kaluga.
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 28 November 2016 09: 00
          +2
          in Kaluga and Nizhny Novgorod
          1. Potter
            Potter 28 November 2016 16: 11
            +2
            Skoda car factories are not Skoda engineering plants. Car factories sobstvennost Germans. Machine-building (producing nuclear equipment) Russian property, are part of the United Machine-Building Plants (OMZ, Uralmash-Izhora group)
      2. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 28 November 2016 17: 22
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        If there is a mess, the first nuclear attacks on Skoda, do not exact.

        What a generous man you are. A nuclear charge there, a nuclear charge here ... Are the Skoda factories producing tanks now? If not, why on earth are you going to destroy them with a NUCLEAR CHARGE?

        "Good you, boyar!" For reference:
        Currently, many national military enterprises have sufficient potential to produce products at the level of world standards, in particular aircraft, small arms and wheeled chassis, as well as air defense and communications electronics. There are capacities for the repair of armored vehicles and the production of small arms ammunition.
        And I remember: "The shops of Rio da Janeiro are not inferior in the luxury of their windows to the first cities in the world." But seriously, it is such "world workshops" that need to be extinguished first. Complex technology is highly dependent on the mass of components, where it will be substituted. And the established production of small arms and ammunition is the first thing to knock out. In a global conflict, all armada of satellites, aircraft, tanks, missiles will melt in a couple of months. And the one who will have these blacksmiths will win, for making "arrows and spears."
      3. perm23
        perm23 4 December 2016 16: 42
        +1
        And what to expect when they begin to rivet weapons. Then it will be too late.
        1. svp67
          svp67 4 December 2016 16: 53
          0
          Quote: perm23
          And what to expect when they begin to rivet weapons. Then it will be too late.

          Do you think? I think that when radioactive winds blow there, not many of the workers will want to run to the factory and do something there. No one has time to release anything new there, such an opportunity will remain with us and the United States. We have, due to the large size of the territory, and the United States because of the remoteness from the main place of struggle - Europe.
      4. The comment was deleted.
  2. hohol95
    hohol95 28 November 2016 07: 16
    +5
    I didn’t write about the Swiss G-13 - post-war Czech Hetzer!
    1. svp67
      svp67 28 November 2016 07: 33
      +4
      Quote: hohol95
      I didn’t write about the Swiss G-13 - post-war Czech Hetzer!


      Thanks for your work.
      I will tell myself that I changed my opinion about this car a lot after watching these programs, as I realized that the machine is more than average. And to a large extent, his "heroization" occurred due to the high training of the crews and of course their massiveness ...

      1. hohol95
        hohol95 28 November 2016 08: 33
        +8
        I do not need other people's laurel wreaths! This is my comment! The order is not described by Switzerland!
        [quote] [/ quote] So, by the end of the war, about 150 Jagdpanzer 38 (t) remained on Skoda assembly lines. As it turned out from Soviet documents, even then, these machines carried the internal factory index G-13. Enterprising Czechs offered the G-13 to the Soviet command, but there they refused the offer. A holy place is never empty - the Swiss became interested in self-propelled guns. At that time, they were bringing the Nahkampfkanone II self-propelled gun similar in characteristics to the stage of the prototype. What ultimately came out, it was not clear to the end, but here it’s a much lighter self-propelled gun, with a gun of the same efficiency, and also in commercial quantities. True, the catch was a snag, since the Czech government did not immediately agree to the deal. As a result, in December 1946 the first 8 G-13s were delivered. This was followed by the main batch of 100 self-propelled guns, received in 1947. The last batch of 50 G-13 arrived in the years 1949-50. In the Swiss army, vehicles carried identification numbers from M + 78000 to M + 78157.
        From the very beginning, the G-13 differed from the Jagdpanzer 38 (t) in armament. Since Skoda did not have 75-mm Pak 39 cannons, they replaced them with 7,5 cm StuK 40 L / 48, which were installed on the StuG 40. Later, Swiss diesel engines Saurer CH86DRM were installed on 2 cars instead of gasoline engines. The last G-13s were withdrawn from service by the Swiss army in 1973, while the surviving Swiss left the vehicles on storage. As a result, at least half of the G-13s survived to this day. Nowadays, Swiss-Czech self-propelled guns in most cases depict the "Hetzer type". In several places, however, museum workers have a conscience (or national pride), so there the G-13s stand in their original form. One of these places is Panzermuseum Thun.
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          28 November 2016 10: 20
          +2
          Quote: hohol95
          I do not need other people's laurel wreaths! This is my comment! The order is not described by Switzerland!


          You do not put a laurel wreath. You just did not drive into the essence of the cycle, unfortunately.

          The author is talking about those tanks and SAU, which fought AGAINST us on the side of the Germans.

          And here is your Swiss order? Just ponder and poke the author?
      2. avt
        avt 28 November 2016 09: 48
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        the machine is more than average. And to a large extent, his "heroization" occurred due to the high training of the crews and of course their massiveness ...

        request Well, in life ersatz. The wartime machine, in fact, the author indirectly indicated in the article, the main thing is that emphasis was put on the criterion of cost-effectiveness.
        1. svp67
          svp67 28 November 2016 09: 53
          +3
          Quote: avt
          Well, in life ersatz.

          Yes. And I am very glad that the Germans fell into the hands of these "ersatz", and not something more effective and perfect. The history of this "ersatz" is a clear example of the fact that the training of the crew is of the PRIMARY importance.
          1. Magua-xnumx
            Magua-xnumx 28 November 2016 16: 27
            0
            Dexterity and skill Soviet tankers since 1943 were higher.
            1. svp67
              svp67 28 November 2016 17: 03
              +2
              Quote: Magua-001
              The skill and skill of the Soviet tankmen since 1943 was higher.

              Alas, but not always. Here, the best skill of our command and the established order in the troops, in terms of supply and maintenance, already affected.
        2. BAI
          BAI 29 November 2016 14: 43
          +1
          Good "ersatz" if each destroyed several of our tanks! Our SU-100 did not have such results. I didn’t understand only one thing, why the KV-85 was struck at a greater distance than the T-34?
          1. Snakebyte
            Snakebyte 29 November 2016 21: 18
            +1
            KV-85 forehead - 75mm almost vertically, T-34 forehead - 45mm at an angle of 60 = 90mm of reduced armor.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 30 November 2016 08: 00
              0
              But the 85mm T-34 gun is not a gift ...!
              1. svp67
                svp67 4 December 2016 16: 55
                0
                Quote: Zaurbek
                But the 85mm T-34 gun is not a gift ...!

                You would think that the KV-85 cannon is worse in this respect ...
      3. Magua-xnumx
        Magua-xnumx 28 November 2016 15: 59
        +1
        Heroization of their crews has nothing to do with it ... The machine just turned out to be small and inconspicuous.
        1. svp67
          svp67 28 November 2016 17: 08
          +3
          Quote: Magua-001
          Heroization of their crews has nothing to do with it ...

          And who is heroing them? I do not intend to do this, but also to refuse the enemy skill too. Judging by the video I proposed, the cars turned out to be cramped, very uncomfortable in combat work, not only that, they had a lot of dead zones and were frankly blind. To win it, one had to have very well trained crews.
          1. Magua-xnumx
            Magua-xnumx 28 November 2016 17: 49
            0
            "Alas", always ... experienced in the Wehrmacht after Kursk diminished.
            1. svp67
              svp67 28 November 2016 18: 46
              +2
              Quote: Magua-001
              "Alas", always ... experienced in the Wehrmacht after Kursk diminished.

              Yes, but don't confuse tank troops and Wehrmacht self-propelled artillery. "Hertsy" are self-propelled guns, they had nothing to do with the tank forces. They had a different subordination. Their crews even wore a different uniform ...
              Here is a German tanker of the time:

              And this is a self-propelled gun:
              1. Magua-xnumx
                Magua-xnumx 28 November 2016 18: 52
                0
                Probably not the point.
    2. Stas57
      Stas57 28 November 2016 09: 07
      0
      Ethiopia ah-iv and Sweden tnhp-sv, well, the Czech Republic itself
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 28 November 2016 09: 44
          0
          Kalinin writes as I indicated
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 28 November 2016 09: 29
        +2
        An article about Hetzer, and the G-13 is a post-war Hetzer! That's why I pointed out that there is no information about him in the article!
    3. ARA90rN
      ARA90rN 28 November 2016 10: 05
      +1
      But what if the essence of the article is different? If you have not noticed, and about the Western Front there are few references.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 28 November 2016 13: 26
        +1
        And the meaning of the article and the fact that you do not describe the technique of the African, Italian, Western fronts, I remember! But the car is interesting and a little information about its post-war fate could well be inserted into the article!
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 28 November 2016 13: 39
        +7
        Many consider this car a forced ersatz! But in battles with them, our tankers and self-propelled gunners had to exert maximum strength, as well as in the fight against heavier enemy equipment! And one could give an example that the victory over them was not easy -
        "From the story of the first meeting with the German tank destroyer" Hetzer "by the guard of Captain Maslennikov Sergei Yegorovich:

        "It was already beyond the Tissa. Our battalion, just replenished with materiel and personnel, was in a hurry to catch up with the retreating Germans and Magyars. It was about ten kilometers to the front edge and we, frankly, hung up our ears, passing through some village. Along the road In parallel with our column, infantrymen in fresh uniforms were striding briskly, trying to shout down the rumble of the tracks with a song. collision, and at the same moment her tower was enveloped in a cloud of black smoke.The infantrymen scattered after the first explosion, and we, left alone with an unknown enemy, began to slowly crawl behind the houses, rotating our towers like blind kittens.

        The most unpleasant thing was that armor-piercing shells flew out, seemingly out of nowhere, and before we noticed the enemy, two more of our "thirty-fours" froze in the middle of the village. I noticed the Germans only after a ricocheted blank rumbled against the tower of my car, like a sledgehammer. These were three small self-propelled guns, similar to coffins, which quickly flew out from behind a high stone fence, and, spitting a blank at us, just as quickly hid behind it again. It seemed that the seven remaining T-XNUMXs would quickly split the armor of these tiny cuttlefish with their eighty-five-millimeter paper, but they again and again jumped out from behind cover and, sending another shell at us, just as quickly hid behind it.

        After a half-hour duel, on the outskirts of the village, four burned-out skeletons of our tanks remained, half a kilometer from which one knocked-out "coffin" with open hatches froze. This is how I met for the first time a new German combat vehicle, which we called "wasp" and which I consider to be the best among German self-propelled guns. It's so good that she appeared only at the very end of the war and did not manage to do a lot of misfortunes ... "
        1. Andy
          Andy 28 November 2016 23: 34
          +1
          Sorry, but this fight does not characterize the car. only the experience of their crews. In response, I remind you how t34-85 Oskina knocked out tiger2 under the sandomier. in both cases, one side prepared for the battle, and the other failed with self-confidence.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 29 November 2016 08: 29
            +3
            Properly arranged ambushes! Hetzer - a machine not for supporting infantry on the battlefield! In addition, 60 mm of the forehead with a slope of 60 degrees gave confidence! And this is how Soviet tankers acted from behind the gardens in the summer of 1941 on the BT-7!
            “An even more striking result in these battles was shown by the crew of the BT-7 platoon of command tanks, consisting of senior sergeant GN Naidin and Red Army soldier Kopytov from the same 5th tank division. Having detected the enemy's movement, they camouflaged themselves in the forest with their vehicle. German tanks got closer, the fire of the guns knocked out the lead vehicle, and then the last one. Taking advantage of the enemy's confusion, the crew also knocked out the remaining 10 tanks! "
            "On September 9, 1942, a tank platoon of Lieutenant Pavkin, who fought on American light tanks M3l (Transcaucasian Front), attacked 16 enemy tanks from an ambush and destroyed 11 (possibly Pz.II) of them."
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 28 November 2016 15: 31
        0
        On the Pz.35 (t) tank, I received a response from you! But there was no answer about the Spanish AAS-1937! Is an article about their fate on the Eastern Front planned?
  3. Gunxnumx
    Gunxnumx 28 November 2016 07: 35
    +4
    By the way, more on the topic:
    http://www.ormvd.ru/pubs/101/diligent-work-for-th
    e-benefit-of-the-occupiers- /
    and then too often the Czechs began to portray themselves as victims of Hitler.

    I also read (I could not find the link, it was a long time ago) that one of the reasons that dramatically strengthened Germany after the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia (ES) was that in the ES, as a relatively recent part of Austria-Hungary, there were almost exactly the same engineering and design and technology schools that did not require shifting and adapting to German standards. It turns out that this is also very important.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 28 November 2016 08: 10
    0
    The Czechs regularly forged weapons for the German Reich .. Interestingly, they are forging for NATO now ...
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 28 November 2016 09: 03
      +2
      The Czechs forged weapons for the German Reich.

      oh well, after the war they just as successfully forged it for us.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 28 November 2016 10: 08
        0
        Yes, as it were, more for themselves to sell .. Training and sporting aircraft supplied .. And what did you develop tank models for the troops of the Airborne Forces? .. As for oh well .. Not okay .. worked well, produced quality products ... V. Kozhevnikov in one of his stories, as it were, justifies .. the work on the Reich .. they couldn’t give up his working conscience .. did it qualitatively ..
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 28 November 2016 10: 27
          0
          t34-85 collected
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 28 November 2016 15: 06
            0
            Ohrenet .. just the Ural Forge ... and all the supplies of tea to the USSR? ... And now they are forging the second part of the question for NATO? I ask, because I have not been interested in the Czech Republic for a long time ... since the Velvet Revolution ...
            1. Magua-xnumx
              Magua-xnumx 28 November 2016 16: 15
              0
              A Czech Hanomag saw there?
            2. Two handed
              Two handed 29 November 2016 11: 09
              0
              In the army, by the way, a lot of Soviet-era military equipment has Czech components, such as diesel engines, all kinds of electrical equipment, etc.
            3. LastPS
              LastPS 5 January 2017 23: 22
              0
              Well, as far as I know, they are not releasing anything besides small arms.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 30 November 2016 08: 03
        0
        And to us, what did they forge? Armed themselves, Yes. And so there was more benefit from captured Germans.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. igordok
    igordok 28 November 2016 08: 39
    +1
    Tell me (t) in the name of the technology, is this a trophy or territorial index of the Czech Republic? After all, the Czech Republic was captured, but continued to produce equipment with this index throughout the war.
    1. SerB60
      SerB60 28 November 2016 08: 55
      +1
      National)) (f) - trophy from France, (r) - USSR.
    2. svp67
      svp67 28 November 2016 10: 20
      0
      Quote: igordok
      Tell me (t) in the name of the technology, is this a trophy or territorial index of the Czech Republic?

      Both ... All captured equipment received a German index, at the end of which the country of origin was indicated. Our technique came with the letter "R"
      1. igordok
        igordok 28 November 2016 16: 33
        0
        I mean that by the time the Hetzer appeared, formally the Czech Republic did not exist. There was a protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia as part of Germany (3 Reichs). So why put an index if formally the Czech Republic is no longer there?
  7. Velizariy
    Velizariy 28 November 2016 09: 30
    +1
    Judging by the table, Hetzer’s armor is stronger than the Tiger’s armor)
    1. yehat
      yehat 28 November 2016 13: 56
      0
      the tiger had different armor. tigers-1 of the first series, marching with the frontal armor taken from the construction of the cruiser, were probably more resistant. At the end of the war, the hatzer outnumbered the tigers in reduced frontal armor (although absolute) was thicker. But tiger-2 in frontal protection is already utterly better than a hatzer.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 28 November 2016 15: 10
      0
      The tiger is a forehead (top sheet) of 100 mm but the angle of inclination is only 8 degrees, while Hetzer has 60 mm with inclinations of 60 degrees upper and 40 degrees lower.
  8. Ruby
    Ruby 28 November 2016 09: 44
    +1
    The Czechs made a good machine. He drank a lot of blood in the war. In terms of characteristics, one of the best anti-tank self-propelled guns since the war. In the light class, this is probably the best.
    By the way, ours very much appreciated them as a trophy and always tried to use them in battles.
  9. ARA90rN
    ARA90rN 28 November 2016 11: 55
    +1
    Quote: igordok
    Tell me (t) in the name of the technology, is this a trophy or territorial index of the Czech Republic? After all, the Czech Republic was captured, but continued to produce equipment with this index throughout the war.

    The letter "t" means "trophy from the Czech Republic", in German Czech is written as tschechisch.
  10. Predator-74
    Predator-74 28 November 2016 12: 51
    +1
    It is highly doubtful that by the end of the war the gun could be adjusted to the category "... performed well ...", unless only against the old 34s and against most of the American tanks. Well, I certainly do not argue that a trained crew is capable of much, but a trained crew on more advanced self-propelled guns (of which, by the way, there were also enough) is capable of much more than "much" ...
    1. yehat
      yehat 28 November 2016 14: 36
      0
      in fact, the hatzer turned out to be one of the best light anti-tank self-propelled guns
      the very concept of lightweight eliminates balanced characteristics - something had to be sacrificed
      Of course, he is not a match for Gypsum-3 or Jagdancer-4, but still to deal with a bunch of T34-85, Shermans, Valentines, Wolverines, various kinds of wheeled vehicles, Su-76 and so on. he was quite fit.
      By the way, they are blaming towards the hatzer that it was inactive and therefore useless.
      Well, the Americans recently at their reconstruction site proved that the hatzer was a serious danger to all armored vehicles, except heavily armored. And therefore, it was an excellent tool for combating mechanized breakthroughs.
      yes, and yet - the Czechs made the hatzer, but the Germans designed it. On the basis of extensive experience in the creation and operation of other self-propelled guns - pieces, jagdancer4 and a number of projects that did not go into production
      Thanks to this experience, it was possible to do something sane in such dimensions.
  11. demiurg
    demiurg 28 November 2016 14: 10
    +2
    The penetration range is not confused in the plate?

    60mm armor, even with a large angle of inclination for an 85mm gun with only 400m? And so the Su-122 in general should be able to penetrate within sight.
    And Churchill began to punch something from a kilometer. Although this tank had one joy, a thick forehead.

    And again, every 14 self-propelled guns burn hundreds of tanks. Cut back the sturgeon, for the sake of decency. At least according to statistics, 1 to 3.
  12. hohol95
    hohol95 28 November 2016 15: 17
    0
    Self-propelled guns Stalin
    Svirin Mikhail Nikolaevich
    "Only now they dumped the fool with their" Ferdinands "and" Panthers "different ... Each such miracle took away 3-4 cars like an artillery assault, or 5-6 like a" wasp ", - said L. I. Torlitsky.
    Also, many veterans, recalling German combat vehicles of the last year of the war, invariably respectfully recalled the same self-propelled gun, the shape of the hull very similar to the T-34. And for some reason her name was given the same thing - "Wasp." However, it was not well known to Vespe lovers, but the Hetzer tank destroyer.
    1. avt
      avt 28 November 2016 20: 12
      +2
      Quote: hohol95
      told L.I. Torlitsky.

      It seems all the same Gorlitsky, and so - yes.
  13. Potter
    Potter 28 November 2016 16: 04
    0
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    Yes. Czech soldiers shook our land hard. Conclusion. If there is a mess, the first nuclear attacks on Skoda, do not exact.

    The owner of Skoda engineering plants (not to be confused with the car factory) is the United Engineering Factories (OMZ, the Uralmash-Izhora group). This is a Russian property.
  14. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 28 November 2016 20: 35
    +1
    This vehicle is an example of an inexpensive and effective weapon. I believe that this is what is now lacking in local conflicts. The niche of such "hitzers" is filled with either MBT or "shushpanzerov". Which, in turn, "like infantry fighting vehicles, are inferior to firepower.
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 5 January 2017 23: 49
      0
      Mmmm ... for what purpose? Hetzer is a tank destroyer, now anti-tank combat uses ATGMs and RPGs that are significantly superior in efficiency to something like a hatzer. If you want something more powerful, coping with a wider range of tasks, and at the same time inexpensive, there are support vehicles based on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. The French have generally riveted them since the 30s, both for themselves and for export, and others too.
  15. Ruby
    Ruby 28 November 2016 21: 11
    +3
    Hetzer, after all, is not a self-propelled gun, but a VET. For these purposes, it was created, and everything there was imprisoned for these purposes. Small size, quite powerful gun, ease of control, low price. His task is to act out of ambush and quickly change his position, which the Germans did at the end of the war. And there the trained crew could shoot at once with a dozen T34 or Shermanov at a time. For which our ours and hated. So small, but biting.
  16. Jubilee
    Jubilee 29 November 2016 08: 48
    0
    Well, the geyropushka on adika worked well.
  17. Wildowl
    Wildowl 29 November 2016 19: 42
    +1
    Live and learn! He always believed that Hetzer translates as Huntsman. Apparently due to lack of knowledge of the language. Still confused between Jagdpanzer and Panzerjager, explain someone on the fingers.
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 4 December 2016 14: 11
      +2
      In many ways. these are just established, or generally accepted, concepts.
      Jagdpazer -... hunter .., tank destroyer.
      Panzer jager - tank hunter, tank fighter. Although the same self-propelled gun. It simply emphasizes a certain difference, whether in origin, in years, or in what.
      In publications, the machine itself, the technique itself is called a jagdpancer. But the organizational structure is more often the abtaylung panzeryager.
      For example - "... In January 1944, the first serial Jagdpanzer IVs entered the Hermann Goering division, which fought in Italy. In the spring of 1944, two battalions of tank destroyers that fought in Italy were rearmed with" jagdpanzer "battalions - 3. Panzerjager Abteilung and 33 Panzerjager Abteilung of the 3rd and 15th Motorized Divisions respectively. "
      It’s kind of like our La-5 can be called a fighter, and La-7 ..- a hawk. We are moving in, what is the difference. But will the Germans move in? So we ..... one fighter. another tank ... but also a fighter.
      Conventionality.
      1. Wildowl
        Wildowl 4 December 2016 15: 45
        0
        Sometimes, from these conventions, brains smoke. Thank you for science, knowledge is never superfluous.
  18. Crimea26
    Crimea26 21 October 2017 13: 50
    0
    Ours called "Hetzer" for some reason "Whistle" (this is one of several names). That's why!?!?!