MAI: a tethered drone developed by the institute will be used on various armored vehicles

Mounted UAV developed by Moscow aviation Institute (MAI), is intended for use with various armored vehicles, but talking about its installation on the Armata tank is premature, reports RIA News report of the head of the laboratory of the department "Information Management Complexes" Nikolai Kim.

Earlier, Izvestia reported that the MAI developed a UAV for installation on the Armata tank, which will be connected via a flexible cable.

“Our laboratory, together with colleagues from the Research Institute of Special Mechanical Engineering of the Bauman Moscow State Technical University, has indeed developed an external observation point that can work with various armored vehicles. The laboratory and field tests of the developed tethered UAV conducted at the MAI proved the efficiency and effectiveness of this approach, but it’s still premature to talk about installing this complex on the Armata tank, Said the professor.

According to him, the UAV "will rise above the car by 20-30 meters, transmitting video information on board, which will significantly expand the field of view of the operator-driver." With the help of this drone it will also be possible to detect targets and aim at them weapon.

He confirmed the information that the armored vehicle would be connected to the UAV with a flexible cable for covert information exchange and power supply, however, pointed out that “before the practical implementation of the project, scientists still need to carry out a large amount of work related to the addition of ground-based software and hardware and the apparatus itself. "

Comments

[Titsen]

... the armored vehicle will be connected to the UAV with a flexible cable for covert information exchange and energy supply, but pointed out that "before the practical implementation of the project, scientists still need to carry out a large amount of work related to the addition of ground-based hardware and software and the apparatus itself" .

The main thing is to crow!

How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

And the photo for the article is off topic ...

[Giant thought]

Apparently, it will be necessary to introduce an additional one more crew member, the Moscow Region may not take such a step, then the idea of ​​a tethered drone will remain unclaimed.

[cniza]

No need to talk about such broadcasts in the public domain, but rather it will be wireless and a computer will control it, transmitting information to the commander.

[killganoff]

The UAV operator can be a crew commander or another member. The main thing is to make the reconnaissance complex control interface accessible, if ergonomics are not thought out, it will have to be tight.

[OLD FART]

Quote: Titsen

How practically the crew will work with a drone cable

The idea is not bad !!! The cable will not calm down ... Just imagine a tank moving under the protection of a UAV, small but formidable under control from a tank at different heights ..

[Stas157]

Quote: Titsen

The main thing is to crow!
How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

Sorry, I didn’t understand your objection. What confused you in this? It seems to me that these are details of how the crew will work with the drone via cable or radio. By cable, it is only much more reliable, since any radio communication is easily extinguished. The wires this hour can be very thin and long, optical.
In general, a great idea to associate a tank with a drone.

[hrych]

Quote: Stas157

By cable, only much more reliable

The main problem of the radio-controlled device is the unmasking radio emission, which the enemy can easily detect at a distance of tens of kilometers or more. Moreover, raising the radiating device to a height multiplies the unmasking effect. Also, energy can be supplied through the cable, making the UAV use time almost unlimited (until the fuel of the machine itself runs out). The cable will be on an automatic reel, technical problems for youngsters ...

[Stas157]

Quote: hrych

The main problem of the radio-controlled device is the unmasking radio emission, which the enemy can easily detect at a distance of tens of kilometers or more. Moreover, raising the radiating device to a height multiplies the unmasking effect. Also, energy can be supplied through the cable, making the UAV use time almost unlimited (until the fuel of the machine itself runs out). The cable will be on an automatic reel, technical problems for youngsters ...

I fully share your opinion!

[Asadullah]

The cable will be on an automatic reel, technical problems for youngsters ...

So clear pepper, the feeding mechanism is not even a problem, already exists for various devices, including flying, plus full patents for stretched wire lines, up to 60% of the length. With a quick look, more than twenty inventions ...... the solution itself is interesting, target designation + aiming in one chain.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Stas157

I think these are details of how the crew will work with the drone via cable or radio

Just the same "how the crew will work" is not at all "details". This is the main thing.
How will it work? No way. Dead weight for any combat vehicle.

Another thing is intelligence. units. For machines such as the BRM or the artillery regiment, this kind of tethered aircraft will be very useful.

They can be demanded as part of an air defense system, electronic intelligence, electronic warfare. Signalers can come in handy as a relay.

[ver_]

... a condom with helium will completely replace the drone and easily raise the mini camera ...

[Lopatov]

Time. The tethered balloon is lifted longer and lowered much longer than the tethered UAV.
In addition, a balloon prepared for transportation takes up much more space than a drone with a similar payload.

[Sagittarius]

When working in the movement of a tank with a drone, there must be honed synchronism in the control of the driver and operator, otherwise everything will go lumpy.

[Lopatov]

Tank and other combat vehicles do not need such a drone.
Using a tethered drone in motion is also not particularly necessary.

[Zlyden.Zlo]

From the cylinder, feed helium into a folded ball, with equipment. Lowering with a small winch takes a couple of minutes

[Lopatov]

Quote: Zlyden.Zlo

From the cylinder, feed helium into a folded ball, with equipment. Lowering with a small winch takes a couple of minutes

And for the drone, a matter of a couple of seconds.

[31R-US]

so for sure, and if you replace the condom with g-n-d-, oh, then it is quite possible to conduct professional shooting.

[Operator]

A tethered drone for reconnaissance purposes will not work - the optimal height for its use is at least 100 meters, while the weight of the electric wire will eat up most of the UAV's carrying capacity. The target drone is optimal in a loose version with flying at all altitudes from tens to hundreds of meters (depending on the terrain).

Another thing is the use of a tethered drone at an altitude of 1 meters and a distance of up to 50 meters in the engineering reconnaissance of the path of the movement of armored vehicles - I attached the GPR and all mines / IEDs to the drone at a glance.

The drone itself (tethered or untethered) must be piloted by a specialist operator from the BRDM, as Lopatov absolutely correctly wrote.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Operator

The target drone is optimal in a loose version with flying at all altitudes from tens to hundreds of meters (depending on the terrain).

And with a battalion of military builders for equipping runways?

For example, an optoelectronic module "Penicillin-OEM" 6 thermal imaging and 6 television cameras. How big does a drone need to be to pull it, power it, and provide a communication channel?
And they need at least six to make 3 fly, and 3 are ready to fly while the previous ones refuel.

[Operator]

Helicopter reconnaissance drones take off / land from hand to hand.

For hell, I apologize for my French tank company already 6 reconnaissance drones, when two is enough (one flies, the other in reserve)? Give you a finger, Army men, so you grab your whole arm to the elbow

Electric drones have a flight time of 1 hour. At this time, a spare battery is charging on the ground. Minute landing, battery replacement and drone are again in the air.

I don’t know who came up with the idea ... under the name "Penicillin-OEM", but the reconnaissance drone is quite bypassed one high definition camera and one thermal imaging camera the size of a matchbox (which is by no means the limit) each on a stabilized suspension. The charge of the on-board lithium-ion battery is enough for their work and for transferring the picture to the ground within an hour.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Operator

I don’t know who came up with the idea ... under the name "Penicillin-OEM"

The genius thought up. This is an element of the sound-thermal complex for determining the coordinates of shooting guns / installations. In completely passive mode, unlike radar. Which cannot be suppressed. Which can not be detected by electronic intelligence and destroy specials. ammunition.

Quote: Operator

Helicopter reconnaissance drones take off / land from hand to hand.

Only with the simplest payload. Camcorder and a power imager.

[Operator]

Like the author of the article, I’m talking only about target drones of tank units of a platoon company level (shooting at targets in direct visibility), and not about target drones of artillery battery battalions (shooting at targets in closed positions).

For the latter, it is quite possible that "Penicillin-OEM" with a constant panoramic view is required, but this no longer applies to the UAVs of tank units.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Operator

I, like the author of the article, speak only about target drones

"Target designator" in the sense of determining the coordinates of targets and, if necessary, highlight? It will not pull either.
The biggest thing that you can demand from what is launched from the hand and sits down there is to see what is around the corner.

And by the way, tanks can shoot with closed fire.

[Operator]

The simplest target-oriented drone of a low-level tank unit with an HD / thermal imaging camera is designed to transmit a picture to the unit commander (or his deputy), and from a bird’s eye view (using electronic zoom in 300-500 units), he must visually distinguish between targets for contact battle and determine their coordinates in relation to landmarks on the same electronic map.

Theoretically, tanks can do a lot of things, but in specialized units this is much better.

[Simple]

Quote: Spade

This is an item. sound-heat complex for determining the coordinates of firing guns / installations. In completely passive mode, unlike radar. Which cannot be suppressed. Which can not be detected by electronic intelligence and destroy specials. ammunition.

Sound direction finding, it seems, depends both on weather conditions (for example, gusts of wind, fog, terrain, etc.), and on the number of simultaneous sound sources, for example, in battle conditions (when the source (gentle and unnecessary)) is not one.

[okko077]

What's the idea? There is no idea here. There is the implementation of existing ideas using a UAV "with a string." And moreover, not the best. The basic situation is the use of the information system by the tank commander and the presence of a channel for receiving information from it. It can be information from the UAV. If such information is not available at a given time in a given place, then you can launch your own UAV, the presence of which, like an equipped special tool, is mandatory in a tank unit. This UAV will provide overview information and coordinates of targets to both the tank commander and the general information system. And this UAV is controlled by operators from a special machine and provide information transfer. A car, for example, "Tiger". If you do not have enough funds and capabilities, contact the operators of the information system at the level of the connection and above. And all this in real time in the battle formation of a tank unit ..... This is how it should be. ..And then some kind of "scientific breakthrough on a string"? ...

[Tatar 174]

And how in the forest and in the city among the wires is he on a leash ??? For the desert will do.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Titsen

How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

No way. The main thing is to choose the slack with an automatic winding mechanism, something like vacuum cleaners do.

[Vadivak]

Quote: Titsen

How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

Like a dog

[Asadullah]

How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

Is this a problem? How to aim at the target with turntables? This is the same as a remote sight. There are devices that do this all in a helmet, and they hold the target visually with the eyesight, wherever you look, the target is there, all that remains is to press the trigger.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Asadullah

Is this a problem? How to aim at the target with turntables? This is the same as a remote sight.

Not the same. for the sight, the microvolt voltage is transmitted, the cable cross section is small, and in order to supply the unit with current, it is necessary to increase the cross section. cable weight increases etc.

[Homo]

Quote: Titsen

The main thing is to crow!

Are you talking about your comment?

[MaxMelan]

Like how .... Like a fisherman with a fishing rod. Or how babies were allowed (birds) along the wire.

[K-50]

Quote: Titsen

How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

Probably as with the launch of ATGM on wire control. They released it, controlled it, but "home" can return "on autopilot" if the program is written accordingly.

[Banishing liberoids]

Firstly, a height of 20 meters is small, 150 is the most, and secondly, if the cable is interrupted, or it breaks, will the drone manage to land on the carrier itself, without control from the ground? The idea is good, but there are too many questions on practical implementation.

[Joker787]

As I understand it, the task of the drone is to look out of the shelter, because of the building or turn, as well as the factor that the armature has a firing range of 8 km, and the target can be detected at a distance of up to 5 km, respectively 20 m in height and 100 m in radius should be enough.

[OLD FART]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

The idea is good, but there are too many questions on practical implementation.

The idea is great ... But all this will be in the future! Tank "Armata" is stuffed with electronics and it's all a matter of technology (programmers, etc.)

[Stas157]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

Firstly, the height of 20 meters is small-150 is the most

Ten kilometers is even better, so what? Do as they can, for now. Higher means more expensive, more complicated .... Everything must be taken into account.

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

and secondly, if the cable is killed, or it breaks, will the drone manage to land on the carrier itself, without control from the ground?

No problem whatsoever! If it interrupts the wire, it will be on radio communications or will land according to the program laid down. One does not interfere with the other, but complements. A drone is harder to cable than a radio. That is, if you managed to do with the cable, then there is certainly a banal radio connection there!

[hrych]

Quote: Stas157

A drone is harder to cable than a radio.

Easier

[Lopatov]

Quote: hrych

Quote: Stas157

A drone is harder to cable than a radio.

Easier

Ideally, they do not need to be controlled at all, changing the height by changing the cable length. It is not clear why there are wise men from the MAI muddied ....

[Stas157]

Quote: hrych

Easier

Much more complicated and expensive! And the cable there is not simple. And how will you compensate for the tension when the tank maneuvers? It's the same as the drone will pull! Yes, he will fall down with you. No tension reel will help. The coil itself creates tension, and the drone is small, how much energy it needs so that it does not affect the flight! And there are no problems with radio communications at all, well, except for those that you yourself described, and they have no relation to glider flight.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Stas157

Much more complicated and expensive!

If you drag it behind a moving machine, and not apply, standing still.

[Stas157]

Quote: Spade

If you drag it behind a moving machine, and not apply, standing still.

That, yes. But, will the drone be superfluous in movement? With radio communications, there would be no such limitations (difficulties). And with the cable, these yaw should be compensated by something. With a more flexible coil, increased power, forget about the drone in the form of an airplane, make it only in the form of a quadrocopter, etc.
If you use the drone standing still, then it is not necessary to tie it to the tank! Any regular drone that is already in service today will do for this.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Stas157

That, yes. But, will the drone be superfluous in movement?

And why is it needed "on the move"?
There are aircraft-type drones, let them patrol. They are less vulnerable, they will be able to cover a larger area.

Well, the tethered must be "released" after the deployment of the marching order or pre-battle in combat.
Correspondingly, external power supply will make it possible to use more sophisticated reconnaissance tools on tethers that are necessary to control a fire defeat in battle.

[Stas157]

Quote: Spade

And why is it needed "on the move"?

And why then tie it to a tank? You can then make it more universal, that is, not necessarily in conjunction with the tank.

Quote: Spade

external power will allow the use of better intelligence on tethers

An external cable is unlikely to supply electricity. The cable is so thin that its bandwidth is not enough for the power of the drone. An example of this is tied balloons, they all have autonomous electric power.

[hrych]

Quote: Stas157

An external cable is unlikely to supply electricity. The cable is so thin that its bandwidth is not enough for the power of the drone. An example of this is tied balloons, they all have autonomous electric power.

20 meters of cable is not 200, and especially not 2000, the mother is maaaalenky quadcopter raise is not a problem, the more the battery can be neglected.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Stas157

And why then tie it to a tank?

You don’t need to attach anything to tanks and other combat vehicles. Their crews in battle and so have something to do.

Quote: Stas157

An external cable is unlikely to supply electricity.

Why? There is a German tethered platform below. They managed to supply fuel on a "leash". Personally, I do not see any particular problem with the supply of electricity to heights of about 20 meters.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

Firstly, the height of 20 meters is small-150 is the most

The weight.
The longer the cable, the more "useless load" the drone will have to carry.
Vicious circle. The heavier the cable, the more powerful the UAV engine. The more powerful the engine, the more energy must be supplied to it. The more energy, the larger the cross section of the power cable and, accordingly, it is heavier.

[K-50]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

secondly, if the cable breaks or it breaks

ATGMs do not tear and then will not break, but you still need to kill him.

[Joker787]

Here it is written in more detail: http://super-arsenal.ru/blog/43666174090/thereArmatu »
-vooruzhat-razvedyivatelnyim-dronom- "Pterodaktil"

[tchoni]

Especially the iPhone photo in the title of the article pleased

[Lopatov]

"Everything was invented before us" (c)
Dornier Do-32K Kiebitz

[webdog]

The topic with a tethered drone was in development back in the 80s in the USSR

[Lopatov]

"In developing"....
HoverMast 100 from Israeli Sky Sapience

[APASUS]

And he can make holes in the roof of armored personnel carriers if that

[Simple]

Dornier Do-34 Kiebitz did not carry any weapons.

What you might have mistook for gun barrels is nothing more than a system to compensate for the rotational effect of a kind of "ventilator fan"

[APASUS]

Quote: Simple

What you might have mistook for gun barrels is nothing more than a system to compensate for the rotational effect of a kind of "ventilator fan"

And what prevents to do this in real form?

[Simple]

The use of small-caliber guns will increase orders of magnitude requirements for UAVs in various ways. In this connection, its price will increase.

This is a different "weight category" than that of SABJA.

According to SAJU, I think the problem of UAV control will be taken over by automation.

Also, the latter will display all the necessary information at the moment to the display.

The tank commander just needs to look at the desired point and ask for a picture for "what's around the corner."

[Former battalion commander]

The childish babble of the "professor" of the inventor of this device about its use "on armored vehicles" does not stand up to criticism. Firstly, in tanks, IN PRINCIPLE, there is no one to control this mutation. The driver is busy, the gunner is busy, the commander is busy. EVERYTHING IS LOADED IN FULL. Further, such a "miracle of technology" could be used in reconnaissance companies of tank regiments on infantry fighting vehicles, but what is the point of having a drone on a leash if you can have a drone WITHOUT TIE in the same reconnaissance companies? Further, can it be attached to the artillery at the observation post of the battalion or battery? On the battery itself, he has nothing to do, this is self-explanatory. We look at what he can do on an NP of a battery or a battalion, such that a drone cannot do without a leash. The answer is NOTHING. And even on the contrary, it will create a lot of inconvenience with a coil of wire and a power source. Again a bobble and then you can't attach it. So what benefit can you get from the device under discussion? Only one - it will be cheaper to manufacture and easier to operate. Considering the backwardness of the Russian economy and the inability to manufacture powerful batteries, this may look promising. BUT! Russians will not be trailing behind progress forever. Maybe someday learn how to make batteries yourself? It looks like a device like that "elusive Joe" - no one needs and will not need it.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Former battalion commander

Further, such a "miracle of technology" could be used in reconnaissance companies of tank regiments on infantry fighting vehicles, but what is the point of having a drone on a leash if you can have a drone WITHOUT TIE in the same reconnaissance companies?

First, energy. The more perfect the means of reconnaissance, the more it is needed. A "untied drone" at the brigade level simply won't pull anything serious.
The supply of energy through the cable can overcome this vicious circle.

Second, communication. The bandwidth of the same fiber optic cable is much higher than that of radio communications. "Tethering" will allow only the sensors themselves to be raised up without means of processing and encrypting the received information. This will again make the UAV cheaper and reduce its power consumption.

Thirdly, again, the connection. Namely, its resistance to REP. Protection is almost absolute.

[Phoenix_L'vov]

the commander is busy

- the commander will have no time to get valuable information about the operational-tactical situation on the battlefield ???

[Lopatov]

Once.
It should be provided to him in an already processed form. Ideally, already "highlighted" in the field of view of the observation device.

[K-50]

Quote: Former battalion commander

The driver is busy, the gunner is busy, the commander is busy. ALL LOADED FULL.

So it's not about driving on the go. Let's say they are going, something "press-bench press", braked, released the UAV, looked around - scouted, outlined goals and further "according to the program." Both the gunner and the commander can do this, they will know the situation better.

[Banishing liberoids]

Gentlemen, authors and admins, I forgot to say that you ate the letter in the title - there is no letter B in the word "used".

[muhomor]

Well, actually !! There is a tank in a shelter, camouflaged, and a drone hangs on a wire above it! Can everyone see? Unmask however! And how to maneuver a tank with this leash? Although the idea is tempting. If you add ATGM to the drone, then you can jam the armored vehicles on approach! Although a tank is not needed for this already.

[Phoenix_L'vov]

And does someone make the tank commander ambush to let out a drone ??

[Simple]

Quote: Phoenix_Lvov

And does someone make the tank commander ambush to let out a drone ??

Introduced.

[Alexdark]

"And how can a tank maneuver with this leash?" Yes, a lot of things you can think of. For example, synchronize the speed of the tank in real time with the speed of the drone. Make this moment automated, of course. Because, in battle, there will be no time to control the "leash with a dog", figuratively speaking.

[K-50]

Quote: AlexDARK

"And how can a tank maneuver with this leash?"

And why does everyone need to launch UAVs in the movement, is it not fate? First, look around to make a decision, hide the drone and then carry out the task not in Feng Shui or what?

[Navuxonastupil]

There will be a new full-time unit- PILOT PILOT ... Lepota, Sitting in the rear, you press buttons, you turn the joystick, and the battle goes!

[K-50]

Quote: Navuxonastupil

There will be a new full-time unit- PILOT PILOT ... Lepota, Sitting in the rear, you press buttons, you turn the joystick, and the battle goes!

How different are the control actions of the ATGM operator from those of the UAV operator? The gunner of the tank is engaged in this, but here they can perform these actions with the commander, set goals. And there is no need for any additional units of personnel; they themselves obtain information in order to more easily and safely carry out a combat mission.

[Nikolaevich I]

M-d-ah! For some reason, the idea of ​​a "tethered" drone caused bewilderment among many ... but not for me. The fact is that I expressed a similar idea in a letter to a certain military-technical journal quite a long time ago. Somehow in Well. "Foreign Military Review "there was an article about foreign experimental self-propelled ATGM systems (where the rocket launcher was raised to a height of several meters using a telescopic manipulator (for example, the French self-propelled ATGM" HOT "). I offered an unmanned helicopter with video cameras, a laser rangefinder, ATGMs," tied "to the combat vehicle with a cable-cable (cable-cable>" two-way "telecommunication and power supply). The UAV was placed on the body of the armored vehicle instead of the turret. But there were also options: 1. The UAV" hidden "in the body of the combat vehicle (approximately like the BTR-50 without "top"); 2.Unmanned helicopter with video cameras, laser rangefinder-target designator without missiles (ATGMs-in the self-propelled body) .When the self-propelled gun is moving, the flight of the drone is fully synchronized usingcontrol computer (i.e. there was a constant two-way exchange of information) is a combat mode! in marching mode, the drone "rode" on the hull or in the hull. When I learned about equipping some French AMX tanks with radars (up to 5 km), the idea of ​​a tank drone-radar appeared. The use of a "tethered" unmanned helicopter for equipping ships was not excluded. It was the development of software and hardware that I considered the main and difficult task.

[Pencil]

There is another, in my opinion, wonderful work for this drone. In the spring of this year, I came to the conclusion that if you lift the drone on a leash above the tank a few meters, take a panorama shot with a camera, and then, after moving the tank parallel to the panorama, another 30 meters and take a second shot from the drone in this direction, then the obtained stereopair with a base of 30 meters will allow using stereometry, for one process of computing processing the stereopair, to calculate (determine) the coordinates of all targets (and generally all objects) that the tank (present on the stereopair) relative to the tank’s own coordinates (armored vehicles) with high accuracy ) Gentlemen from the Moscow Aviation Institute, I invite you as a co-author, since this publication allows me to maintain the priority of this decision.

[Caretaker]

It is not necessary to move the tank, just move the drone vertically.

[Simple]

To get the desired "picture", you need to know the location of the camera (when he first shot) with an accuracy of centimeters and minutes, and all this in three dimensions.

Here the accuracy depends on the distance and size of the subject.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Pencil

Gentlemen from the Moscow Aviation Institute, I invite you as a co-author, since this publication allows me to maintain the priority of this decision.

For the Israelis For example, the Orbiter supplied to Azerbaijan measures the range this way.

[Pencil]

This is a question of the passive (secretive) method for determining the coordinates of targets on the battlefield.
The idea of ​​using a stereo image is interesting because of the possibility of realizing a very long stereo base (tens of hundreds of meters). At the same time, the camera can rise above the VT object not necessarily with the help of a drone, but also with the help of a rod or a folding pantographic elevator.

[Simple]

My comment raised the issue of the possibility of determining coordinates in space when shooting in combat conditions (when you can’t rely on satellite navigation).

[Pencil]

Quote: Caretaker

It is not necessary to move the tank, just move the drone vertically.

Caretaker, and if you think carefully? If most of the goals (objects) are located in a narrow angular space vertically and a very wide angular space horizontally, which stereo base is more informative for a horizontal panorama - horizontal or vertical?

[Alexdark]

As for me, a chic, ingenious and simple idea. And I think it’s extremely cheap. For convenience, you can make this system modular, quickly mounted on any equipment. here, of course, size is important, otherwise the office isn’t comme il faut.

[Pencil]

Quote: Simple

To get the desired "picture", you need to know the location of the camera (when he first shot) with an accuracy of centimeters and minutes, and all this in three dimensions.

Here the accuracy depends on the distance and sizes the subject

Yes, here the accuracy really depends on the distance, but the size ... There would be a point in the stero image, its coordinates will be calculated. To minimize the error increasing from the range, a significantly increased base of several tens of meters is used. For reference, look at the accuracy of determining the range with a military stereo range finder with a base of just over a meter. And correlate the accuracy capabilities with a base of 20 meters or more? Well, the coordinates of each of the shots are the coordinates of the tank (providing the object) at the time of shooting))

[Simple]

My comment touched upon the question of the possibility of determining the coordinates of a point and the direction of the survey in space when shooting in combat conditions (when it will be impossible to rely on satellite navigation). I did not mind the importance of the "base" or stereoscopic parallax in determining the distances.

You are right about taking the "tank coordinates" as the starting coordinate system. in the end, the tank gun is aimed relative to the tank itself (the benchmark is there? - I don't know).

It remains only to bind the points and directions of surveys to the "tank coordinates".

How to make a boom?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Simple

How to make a boom?

- I would first ask myself "in what conditions is this applicable"
- let's say the tank is on the defensive, the enemy is advancing. Your stereo shots are useless as the tank works on moving targetswithin line of sight; while you have processed your stereo image - the target is already from there ... left
- tank on the offensive. Your stereo shots are also not applicable because now the coordinates of the tank itself are changing...

That something like this.

[Simple]

This is all that you described, communicate programs in real time.

Who says that the SAW will hang over the armored vehicles like a ball over the heel.

This "pterodactyl" will be integrated into the ACS - it automatically performs the functions assigned to it. ... In most cases, it doesn't even need to be managed.

(my opinion may differ with the developers of SAJ)

Quote: Cat Man Null

since now the coordinates of the tank itself are changing ...

The tank went into the woods, and the gun for firewood?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Simple

The tank went into the woods, and the gun for firewood?

- this ... turn off the "talented military man", turn on the brains
- You, with the help of your "stereo images", intend to determine the direction to the target and the distance to it, right?
- in the event that at least one thing (the tank itself or the target) is in motion, both the direction and the distance to the target change. This is kakbe, a scientific fact. And therefore, your circuit will not work.

Questions, comments, suggestions?

[Simple]

1.
2. Plus something else " additional shamanism "with target selection.
3. It’s strange why else tanks get somewhere, all the same the target will run away from the projectile.
4. I am always glad to discuss something constructively.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Simple

3. It’s strange why else tanks get somewhere - anyway, the target will run away from the shell

- I repeat - turn off the "military", turn on the brain
- the tank usually shoots at targets located within line of sight
- measuring the range to such a target is remarkably done by a laser rangefinder, the direction to the target is determined by the gunner. With my own eyes
- that's why they fall
- You’re starting to invent some kind of a sphero-horse, having not decided initially, why it is necessary at all
- this is ... methodically wrong.

That's all, actually

[Simple]

Quote: Cat Man Null

the tank usually shoots at targets within line of sight

And from closed positions? Or firing guided projectiles?

Quote: Cat Man Null

- this is ... methodically wrong.

So, by the way?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Simple

And from closed positions?

- a tank firing from a closed position is about the same as a paratrooper entering melee:

In order to engage in hand-to-hand combat, the paratrooper must:
- to fall in love with a machine gun, bayonet-knife, belt, hard hat, shops for a machine gun
- find a clearing on which there is not a single stick and stone
- find the same gouging on it
- only after all these requirements are fulfilled, the paratrooper can finally engage in hand-to-hand combat

- this means that there is a mass of tools more adapted for "closed" shooting: artillery (barrel and rocket) and mortars.
- only if all this is not at hand, but there are only tanks, will they use tanks
- at the same time, firing is conducted, of course, from a place, and reconnaissance of targets and adjustment of fire is conducted centrally. A drone on each tank is not needed for this

Quote: Simple

So, by the way?

- no ... not "so"
- no need to pull pieces from the horse of the Text
- and do not stupid. You have never said under what conditions your scheme is designed to help a tanker.

Me for example

[Simple]

Quote: Cat Man Null

- a tank firing from a closed position is about the same as a paratrooper entering melee:

There are different cases in war.

In order to engage in hand-to-hand combat, the paratrooper must:
- to fall in love with a machine gun, bayonet-knife, belt, hard hat, shops for a machine gun
- find a clearing on which there is not a single stick and stone
- find the same gouging on it
- only after all these requirements are fulfilled, the paratrooper can finally engage in hand-to-hand combat

Yes, I read it on the "Military Review" -stro said.

Quote: Cat Man Null

A drone on each tank is not needed for this.

Figs knows how it will be in the future.

Quote: Cat Man Null

A drone on each tank is not needed for this.

In principle, I "stuck in" for the very idea, tk. I'm interested.

Quote: Cat Man Null.

- no need to pull out pieces

I’m sorry. read how -

- this... training manuals wrong.

Quote: Cat Man Null.

You have not yet said under what conditions your scheme is designed to help a tanker. Me for example

I think that this monitoring tool will probably be included in the ACS system. There is such a connection scheme-parallel, i.e. when it fails, the system itself as a whole does not suffer.

The system of warfare does not stand still therefore they invent how to perform the task in battle more efficiently. If they make a reliable and unpretentious system. why not?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Simple

Sorry. read as - "this ... training manuals wrong"

are ... stereotypes

Quote: Simple

I think that this monitoring tool will probably be included in the ACS system

- the article speaks rather about the opposite.
- the drone is "tied" only to the machine to which it is tied with a wire ...

Quote: Simple

If they make a reliable and unpretentious system. why not?

- Duc ... no one is against ...
- but about the "stereo" I would forget ... they are not needed, IMHO

[SCHNIFER]

At least, such a drone will not fly away where it is not necessary (in the sense of control it will not be able to be intercepted by a thread like Autobase)

[All1]

An attached drone can come in handy for shooting from closed positions. But on the march, especially in a wooded area, he will be lost. It would be better to make a wireless drone with a magnetic base on the tank.

[doubovitski]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Titsen

The main thing is to crow!
How practically will the crew work with the drone cable?

Sorry, I didn’t understand your objection. What confused you in this? It seems to me that these are details of how the crew will work with the drone via cable or radio. By cable, it is only much more reliable, since any radio communication is easily extinguished. The wires this hour can be very thin and long, optical.
In general, a great idea to associate a tank with a drone.

Fiber can be used to control and read information. But here's how to supply power to the engines? Further. Since the use of this "eye" in combat conditions is unlikely to be long-term, it will not need to be powered by cable at all. For a few minutes of flight to "look over the fence", a battery would be enough.

[doubovitski]

Quote: Pencil

There is another, in my opinion, wonderful work for this drone. In the spring of this year, I came to the conclusion that if you lift the drone on a leash above the tank a few meters, take a panorama shot with a camera, and then, after moving the tank parallel to the panorama, another 30 meters and take a second shot from the drone in this direction, then the obtained stereopair with a base of 30 meters will allow using stereometry, for one process of computing processing the stereopair, to calculate (determine) the coordinates of all targets (and generally all objects) that the tank (present on the stereopair) relative to the tank’s own coordinates (armored vehicles) with high accuracy ) Gentlemen from the Moscow Aviation Institute, I invite you as a co-author, since this publication allows me to maintain the priority of this decision.

Without reference to their own coordinates at point 1 and point 2, all sorts of calculations become unnecessary. Thus, GLONASS is also needed.

[Lopatov]

Quote: doubovitski

Thus, GLONASS is also needed.

Or ANN. And it is better both that, and another.
In general, a rather complicated system comes out. Gunners are aware of how difficult it is to transfer coordinates from one point of conjugate observation to another.
In addition, such a system does not work well with serif breaks.

[Alexdark]

Someone sees a problem in management. Ie there is no time for the crew to do this. Well, you can do almost without control at all. Create a simple program, ask the drone several ready-made positions. You just need to press the desired button, he himself will take this position. Then the power supply. It is quite possible to do without wires, because in theory this drone will be used for a rather short time. And he himself will be charged by wireless charging. Completed the task, and he parked himself in his nest, where he is charging in the meantime. This is also about modularity. A small module, attached to many types of equipment using magnets. The thing is hardly expensive, so it can be considered a consumable and not worry about losing it. It would be nice to carry several of these in the kit. The expensive aspect here is not in himself, I think, but in integration with technology. That is, if this is not some sort of armata, but something rare, you will also have to mount the "infrastructure" in this technique (if I may say so). Ie, modernization is expensive.

[Lopatov]

Quote: AlexDARK

Someone sees a problem in management. Ie there is no time for the crew to do this. Well, you can do without any control at all.

That's not the point. The crew will have no time to process information received from the UAV ..

[Alexdark]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Manul]

Quote: Spade

That's not the point. The crew will have no time to process information received from the UAV ..

Dear Lopatov, what kind of "processing" do you mean? Extra screen (window on screen)? I think it is not a problem to introduce several automatic functions. For example - reconnaissance at a height of 20 meters. Click on a time interval or on an emergency urgent return. In extreme cases, the coil will automatically reel and take it with itself in the event of an urgent evacuation, albeit with breakdowns, but it will be repaired. And how many cases when the tank cannot get out of the corner, because the reconnaissance was late (breakthrough). Then such a drone will clarify the situation to the crew, which could cost them their lives .. Is that bad?

[Pencil]

Quote: Spade

Quote: doubovitski

Thus, GLONASS is also needed.

In general, a rather complicated system comes out. Gunners are aware of how difficult transmit coordinates from one point of conjugate observation to another.
In addition, such a system does not work well with serif breaks.

Real-time stereo pair processing is performed by tank equipment. The calculation results are attached to the objects and displayed on the means of displaying the target situation of the cabin. No need to transmit anything anywhere. The coordinates of the images are formed by the SINS of the tank. The height of the camera on the telescopic boom can also be measured with high accuracy.

[Simple]

Cat Man Null,

Quote: Cat Man Null

- the article speaks rather about the opposite.
- the drone is "tied" only to the machine to which it is tied with a wire ...

No automated control system for tank battalion level?

Yes, and the tank itself as a combat unit does not seem to hurt the ACS.

Quote: Cat Man Null

- but about the "stereo" I would forget ... they are not needed, IMHO

This is you in vain.

In principle, all possible (in my opinion, arguments) on this thread I brought (and from other arguments made).

Unless that sounded. Surveillance data is automatically processed by the ACS program to adjust the fire.

If you are not weighty . war plan will show.

This is where I end. Good luck.

[Vadim12]

Trees, power lines and other obstacles will interfere with the cable. Some nonsense.

[Whisper]

And if you forget about its management, is it just like an extra eye? I think that we should not think about such a thing as a domestic copter, with joysticks. It is more like a software package that one should consider the concept, and not like a hemorrhagic! drove into a ravine, lifted-looked around! Generally a fairy tale!

[Whisper]

About street fighting and power lines in general are nonsense! need released, no need not released! Lost, forgot, but better not to lose! Just an extra tool! It would also be useful to remove vibration from the ground.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Sheptun

Also, vibration would be removed from the ground, it is also useful

- why, excuse me, feng shui to "shoot" it?
- to remove - is it so that (vibration) is not there?
- or to shoot in the sense of "register"?
- so the tank when it goes, there is still vibration ... in general, the question is the same: but why, in fact, do you need it?

[Zomanus]

Well, yes, such a thing, if issued in the form of a separate module, it is possible to put on a convoy guard machine also other equipment, everywhere it will be in place.

[Sakhalin.]

Good idea, I think when fighting in urban conditions, the thing will be most needed.

[Whisper]

[quote = Cat Man Null] [quote = Sheptun]
- so the tank when it goes, there is still vibration ... in general, the question is the same: but why, in fact, do you need it? [/ quote]
by vibration, you can determine the target profile, speed, quantity, etc.

[Manul]

Quote: hrych

an adversary can easily detect at a distance of tens of kilometers or more.

And even for electronic warfare, such a drone will be less vulnerable!

[doubovitski]

Quote: Former Combat

The childish babble of the "professor" of the inventor of this device about its use "on armored vehicles" does not stand up to criticism. Firstly, in tanks, IN PRINCIPLE, there is no one to control this mutation. The driver is busy, the gunner is busy, the commander is busy. EVERYTHING IS LOADED IN FULL. Further, such a "miracle of technology" could be used in reconnaissance companies of tank regiments on infantry fighting vehicles, but what is the point of having a drone on a leash if you can have a drone WITHOUT TIE in the same reconnaissance companies? Further, can it be attached to the artillery at the observation post of the battalion or battery? On the battery itself, he has nothing to do, this is self-explanatory. We look at what he can do on an NP of a battery or a battalion, such that a drone cannot do without a leash. The answer is NOTHING. And even on the contrary, it will create a lot of inconvenience with a coil of wire and a power source. Again a bobble and then you can't attach it. So what benefit can you get from the device under discussion? Only one - it will be cheaper to manufacture and easier to operate. Considering the backwardness of the Russian economy and the inability to manufacture powerful batteries, this may look promising. BUT! Russians will not be trailing behind progress forever. Maybe someday learn how to make batteries yourself? It looks like a device like that "elusive Joe" - no one needs and will not need it.

You do not need to understand everything so literally. Why can’t this thing be used on the tenth car, the commander’s, the unit’s manager, and she’s not too involved in a party on the city streets? Current communication systems can combine this flock into a single whole, and put the situation on the displays in EVERY car?

[alstr]

Yes, everything is much simpler. Management will be fully automated. Those. The UAV will move synchronously to the tank. If necessary, you can adjust the point within certain limits. Data is transmitted either on a separate screen (i.e. video) or on a tactical screen in the form of targets.
It will look like in the same WOT. There I turned the mouse wheel and got a view from above. There will be approximately the same. At the same time, players somehow do not have any control problems.

[doubovitski]

Quote: Spade

Quote: doubovitski

Thus, GLONASS is also needed.

Or ANN. And it is better both that, and another.
In general, a rather complicated system comes out. Gunners are aware of how difficult it is to transfer coordinates from one point of conjugate observation to another.
In addition, such a system does not work well with serif breaks.

I am not special in military affairs, but it seems to me in the current state of computer technology that the exchange of this information can be transferred to computerized systems. Glonass will report the coordinates of all units, and the transfer from one to another can be carried out with automatic recounting of data taking into account the coordinates of correspondents. Glonass can also tell the coordinates of targets, you just need to instruct the drone to fly over them.

[alstr]

You will laugh, but Glonas is not needed. You need to know the starting point and have a course-laying device (i.e. there is such a machine for determining coordinates in motion).
Previously included in every air defense division. I think now to do it at the current level of computer technology, just spit it and put it in a small box.
And the starting point can be determined with high accuracy on the map per minute according to the standard.