Turkish General Staff: ATS air force attacked the Turkish military in northern Syria

The Turkish General Staff reports that the Turkish military was bombarded by Syrian air forces in the north of the SAR. In the material of the Turkish news agency Anadolu it is reported that in the area of ​​the settlement of El-Bab three Turkish soldiers were killed, another 10 representatives of the Turkish Armed Forces were injured.

Official Ankara claims that the blow was struck at about half past four in the morning. The condition of one of the wounded is assessed as severe. According to some reports, all the injured Turkish military who are invading Syria were taken out of the combat zone and sent to Turkey.

In connection with the information made public, questions arise: what did the Turkish army generally do in the Syrian al-Baba region (Aleppo province), where the government army of the SAR is conducting an operation against the militants?

According to sources, in the north of Syria (including in Latakia and Aleppo) there is an offensive by the Syrian government troops on the position of the so-called "Syrian Free Army", which is actually engaged in aiding terrorists "Jebhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) and other armed gangs. During one phase of the operation, Turkish artillery opened fire on units of the army of the Syrian Arab Republic. To suppress the activity of artillery, the Syrian military was involved aviation. This is one of the versions.

At the same time, social media contains considerations about the fact that the Turkish military actually collided with ISIS forces in the north of Syria, and then decided to blame for the attacks of the SAR Air Force.

In any case, the Turkish military in Syria act illegally, which in fact denies them the right to make any claims to official Damascus.

Comments

[BARKAS]

This is the Turkish military who came under attack from the Syrian Air Force!

[iConst]

Quote: BARKAS

This is the Turkish military who came under attack from the Syrian Air Force!

According to insider information, there was no blow - a faulty air conditioner exploded. Two air conditioners. Or maybe even three ...

[Alexander War]

A few videos from Iraq

[Alexander War]

Video from Iraq

[voyaka uh]

"the area of ​​the Syrian El-Bab (Aleppo province),
Where is the SAR government army conducting an operation against the militants? "////

The government army of the SAR in this area does not conduct any operations.
All the forces of the army were thrown to take the eastern quarters of the city of Aleppo.

But the Turks managed to free a large area from ISIS. And the Kurds also tried - they beat ISIS.
Although the Kurds and the Turks hassle.

[dumpy15]

In a word, everyone together beat ISIS * (* an organization created by the KSA and Qatar with the organizational help of Turkey), but then they got into a fight. What kind of Kurds are we discussing: pro-Turkish, anti-Turkish, pro-American, or who-in-themselves-peaceful-oilmen from Mosul?

[Banishing liberoids]

The Turkish warriors simply asked the igil to free this territory for a while.

[Sagittarius]

Our respect for the decisiveness of the Syrian Air Force and their accuracy.

[voyaka uh]

"asked to release the igil for a while" /////

... ISIS graciously agreed, knocking out several Turkish tanks and armored personnel carriers and
killing dozens of soldiers. And having lost a couple of his hundred ...

[Stirbjorn]

To suppress the activity of artillery, Syrian military aviation was involved.

The author did not look at the map of Syria, because between Latakia and Al-Bab, a whole province - Idlib lies

[Titsen]

What are you talking about?

In more detail, please!

[vanek77]

The Turks yesterday struck the SAA in Latakia, during its offensive, today the Syrians ironed them. In any case, there will be nothing for the Turks and Americans fighting in the form of Kurds to do anything. After Allepo, both Idlib and Raki will come, no matter who controls these territories, they will be hollowed.

[fzr1000]

The situation with Turkey may again become tense, as last year, after the downing of our Drying. Just like guessed for the anniversary.

[win]

The Turks have a strange memory. They remember very well whose Crimea, but they completely forgot whose Constantinople

[fzr1000]

The main thing we do not forget.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Quote: voyaka uh

But the Turks managed to free a large area from ISIS.

"As a result of bloody battles, they were liberated from ISIS .... (further on the list). The Turks are also fighting with them ???

[serkhan]

.. But the Turks managed to free a large area from ISIS ..

-forks in the water. No need for the Turks to free anything in Syria. Everyone who acts illegally in Syria acts only in their own interests. So what the hell do they do there.

[newcomer]

finally, the hands of the sar reached the Turks. it would be necessary to put attacks on the Turks on the conveyor.

[Observer2014]

Unofficially, the Americans donated atomic bombs to NATO countries. It's no secret. What will happen if Russia also donates heels of nuclear weapons to Syria? Why all this fuss in Syria? Give Syria an atomic bomb. And that's all. In the morning, snot, screams. Wild heart-rending howl of "our" liberals.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Observer2014

Unofficially, Americans donated atomic bombs to NATO countries. This is no secret

- You are wrong. For me, for example, this is a secret
- do not share the source of knowledge?

Quote: Observer2014

Give Syria an atomic bomb

- exactly
- and to every monkey in Africa - a pomegranate

[Observer2014]

Especially for cats to liberals:

Defense Ministry: NATO teaches Polish pilots how to use nuclear weapons

December 24 2014

Tactical nuclear weapons in Europe

October 5 2015

Enough? Everything on our site has been published. Adus! The traditional is not painful.

[Cat man null]

Especially for non-observant turbopatriot Observer2014:

Quote: Ministry of Defense, December 24, 2014

NATO teaches Polish pilots how to use nuclear weapons

Quote: Observer2014

Is that enough?

- no ... but what about

Quote: Observer2014

Unofficially Americans gave atomic bombs NATO countries

- somehow not confirmed, no? "Teach application" is not "donate", is it?
- Or an instructor in a driving school who teaches you to drive a mafia, gives it to you?
- you have some kind of strange logic

Quote: Observer2014

Adyus! Traditional no pain

- do not wait (s)

[Banishing liberoids]

So, when Turkey fought openly at the same time with the igil against Syria, everything was fine, but as soon as they got the balls, they immediately felt uneasy?

[voyaka uh]

"Turkey openly fought along with the ISIS against Syria" ////

This is only in Russian. And only after an incident with a downed plane

[LÄRZ]

And did someone promise a shawarma, coffee and hookah in Syria for the Turks? Alas and ah! In this life you have to pay for everything.

[Algetxnumx]

For it’s not hell, to climb foreign territories without demand, they easily got off with tomatoes, adversaries.

[Shadow of darkness]

Too many cooks spoil the broth.
PS Judging by the comments, many have fun if the "nannies" start bludgeoning each other.

[Algetxnumx]

Quote: voyaka uh

The government army of the SAR in this area does not conduct any operations.
All the forces of the army were thrown to take the eastern quarters of the city of Aleppo.

Damn, all the same interesting guys on our website from Israel, the climate there is something special, or really they really think themselves "chosen by God", "that's not conducting the Government Army of the SAR in this area of ​​operations" and that's it, even burst , no, maybe we do not know something, maybe you are the chief of staff or the commander of the SAR Armed Forces, or maybe you are in the advanced combat formations of the attacking units, and we here unknowingly break spears, as Petrukha said, in the film "White Sun of the Desert: “Gulchat, open your face!” Well, or facts in the studio!

[NEXUS]

The Turkish General Staff reports that the Turkish military was bombed by the Syrian Air Force in the north of the SAR. The material of the Turkish Anadolu news agency reported that in the area of ​​the settlement of El-Bab, three Turkish soldiers were killed, another 10 representatives of the Turkish Armed Forces were injured.

So the Syrians on their territory ... and no one called the Turks there. Now the crying has begun ... It seems like we peacefully occupied their land, and for some reason they are bombing us. So little bomb, if the Turks are not blown away.

[jovanni]

The Turkish General Staff reports that the Turkish military was bombed by Syrian air forces in the north of the SAR

But he does not say what they did there without permission?

[ZKVR]

Again, the cottons overslept. They’re such a jerk.

[Algetxnumx]

Quote: raki-uzo

Because we have a world in Russian between states, which I do not care.

Just before you go to the mirror

[win]

Putin goes to the grave of Stalin and says:
- I do not know what to do, Joseph Vissarionovich. In Syria, problems with ISIS, the Turks shoot in the back.
Stalin answers from the grave:
- And you unite Syria with Turkey!
- Yes, I already thought about this, but if Istanbul is made the capital, then the Syrians will be offended, and if Damascus - then the Turks.
- No, not Istanbul and Damascus, but sunny Magadan!

[Former battalion commander]

Putin’s gut is too thin to even listen to such advice ... Craps around with fear ... How to lay a pipe on the sea then ... so that human gas can be pulled cheaply to the west ...

[zoolu300]

Good news. I should add to them. I hope there are VKS officers in Khmeinim who are not too zealous to fulfill the will of the "oligarchy", and the Turks will still feel the taste of "tomatoes".

[murriou]

It was high time to remind the Turks who they were on Syrian soil: the outlawed invaders and legitimate targets for anyone.

[Siberia]

Yes, in Syria now where you can’t throw a bomb from an airplane, you will surely get either to hospitals, then to Turks, or to Americans ...

[murriou]

"The Turks are divorced, an honest artilleryman has nowhere to shoot"

[GAndr]

They have the right to do what they want on their territory. Share the Turks ...

[Mentat]

Quote: BlackMokona

It is a pity that the Unified State Examination is walking in Russia and people no longer remember that Sweden was defending itself in the Northern War.
You also tell about the poor defending Berlin of 1945 wassat
Well, smartly for the textbook

You give instructions to people with such show-offs, but in reality show your ignorance.

You didn’t even have the wit to even go further on the links on Wikipedia, which you cite with rapture in the form of superiority over uneducated, unfortunate Unified State Examiners.

The Northern War was a continuation of the conflict of 1610-11, when the Swedes conquered part of the Russian lands, making the bulk of the Novgorod region their de facto protectorate and subsequently cutting off Russia from the Baltic Sea under the Stolbov Treaty, which they also boasted of. It began with the Swedish betrayal of the employer for the benefit of the capture of the fortress of Staraya Ladoga by Swedish mercenaries under the pretext of helping the Russian Tsar against the rebels. The Swedes paid for this impudence, betrayal and capture in the end.

[Blackmokona]

This does not change the fact that the northern war, Sweden was a defender

[mark2]

Blackmokona,

The aggressor is always the one who attacked the other side. Otherwise, all these tricks with history begin

Aggressor is not only the one who hits first, but also the one who makes maximum efforts to prevent the competitor from developing. But you are right, yes. According to today's concepts, the one who attacks is always guilty, even if the one who is being attacked holds a knife at the throat of the attacker. And at that moment Rus-Russia simply needed new technologies, and Livonia kept a knife at the throat.
But nobody whitewashes Hitler. For Russia, he is clearly an aggressor, but for some of his supporters there are a lot of arguments justifying his actions. For example, the war with the USSR was due to lack of resources and territory. Mostly resources. There is nothing in Europe, no colonies. The Union remains with its vast lands and endless resources with such a small population.

[Blackmokona]

Your first paragraph is contrary to the second. If Russia can attack Livonia, because Russia needed to get Western technology through it. Although Russia at that moment had access to the Baltic Sea and the opportunity to trade and import technology from Western countries. That is why Hitler could not take from the USSR resources so necessary for him to fight the British? One pushes the other. If you apply something, then it will legalize the use of it against you.

[renics]

And there is nothing to invade foreign territory, and if the Syrian army entered Turkish territory, what then? An example of a contingent of the Russian Federation in Syria, shot down even at the border.

[magician]

two fight, the third nefig climb!

[Mentat]

Quote: jarome

B ...
After the words "according to sources" rushed the selected oheney, reworked by the copyright author.

What is going on in Latakia ??? - it ended yesterday, in defeat. About fifty killed. But the author decided not to spoil the mood of the "masses" (the wretchedness of VO in this is generally manifested) and said that everything is not bad. Yesterday there was news in Aleppo about victorias that weren't there.

Suppression of the Art of the Turks ??? Arta worked on the SAA in Latakia, 400 km from El-Bab, where the author "possibly crushed the Turks" ...

Such low quality left the site to be devoured by the racers after the epaulettes with their "we beat the hydra", "we kill all ISIS in Latakia" and other heresy worthy of ONLY PLUSES.

And why would you, while doing a brown as the bear’s hair on your profile picture, run over into VO, and not give a source of information, apparently, completely reliable and very accurate? It is entirely possible to allow this. Although what is this source? Your personal agent in the General Staff of Russia? The informant cleaner in Assad’s office?

Then you will soon see a striped light. And if this is some kind of source on the Internet that you think is particularly trusted, well, share such a wonderful and true source with the community! Or do you scratch your tongue like that? Like, here I am, who is knowledgeable and truthful, and who are you? - gray-haired ointment, mass unacceptable to the innermost truth, not that Я. Don’t enter the infection into account, because not all is treated with vodka.

PS Total: please provide the source of your statements, otherwise you probably know that the slogan of Soviet times is “Peace! A door! Ball!" has a touch of personification.

[Mentat]

Quote: voyaka uh

"Turkey openly fought along with the ISIS against Syria" ////

This is only in Russian. And only after an incident with a downed plane

Those. columns of oil tankers burning with torches and carriers with sad faces nearby - are all Mosfilm’s machinations?
Bearded faces fleeing to Turkey for medical treatment - is this a realistic animation of the Soyuzmultfilm?

[murriou]

Quote: BlackMokona

1. That is, in the second case, when Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia, were the forces equal?

1. The forces between the blocs were not equal, but comparable, and the war by all participants was conceived precisely as a war between the blocs, not individual countries, i.e. like a world.

2. Serbia was incomparably weaker than Austria-Hungary, but the forces of Russia and Austria-Hungary were already comparable, and Russia acted as a member of the Entente, by force somewhat superior to the Axis bloc of the central powers - therefore, Russia's weakness compared to Germany was ignored by tsarist strategists, and Serbia's weakness compared to the Germans was considered insignificant. .

3. In fact, Serbia agreed to act as a petty shket, demanding a cigarette from an adult uncle, with the support of an entire gang behind him.
For which he raked in full.
25 years later, Poland climbed the same rake.

4. In essence, Serbia could - and should have - agree to an international investigation, involving representatives of Serbia, Russia, England, France, and the injured Austria-Hungary and Germany, and would have to look for another reason for the war, to pass which anyway would not have been possible, with the mutual desire of the parties, but in this case Serbia had a chance to sit aside.

Quote: BlackMokona

2.So the standard casus belli.
3. I do not argue.
4. I do not argue.

It's nice to talk with a sane and understanding interlocutor

Quote: BlackMokona

5.Here you already forgot, on August 1, 1914, Germany declared war on Russia, after Russia ignored the absolutely unacceptable ultimatum about stopping Russian mobilization.

And here it is necessary to examine the picture in more detail, without confusing declarations, ritual gestures and reality.

First of all, hostilities were planned by both the Entente and the Germans long before the occurrence of the Bell incident!
And unfolded strictly according to pre-conceived scenarios, and not by improvisation in the framework of the current moment.

Russia planned the invasion of East Prussia ahead of time, and without any regard to Serbia, which was not required to be defended at the time of planning the operation. And it would not have been necessary if the Entente had not set Serbia as an impudent shket to provoke a fight.

Further, both the German ultimatum and the declaration of war in response to its non-fulfillment were ritual gestures, for which the Germans did NOT EXPRESSLY EXPECTED real implementation.

According to their calculations, after this time should have passed about a couple of months to conduct Russian mobilization and diplomatic curtsies.
During this time, the Germans hoped, according to Schlieffen's plan, to crush France and block England from landing on the continent.

In light of these circumstances, the picture of the beginning of the WWII begins to be much clearer.

[Blackmokona]

1.This is already an internal idea, we are considering the diplomatic situation, Russia began to prepare for assistance to Serbia, for which it received an ultimatum from Germany, and after refusing to carry it out. War from germany
2. So the initial aggression that launched the massacre was Austria-Hungary against Serbia alone.
3. Having agreed to comply with all the outrageous demands of Austria-Hungary, except for the actual occupation? Obviously, Serbia did not want this war, or at least it masked very well
Did Germany also directly attack Poland, or do you think Poland should have given Danzing to continue the policy of appeasing the aggressor? Further feed Germany more and more new pieces of territory?
4.Read more about the question

This letter became known as the July Ultimatum, and Austria-Hungary stated that if Serbia did not accept all the requirements within 48 hours, then the Austro-Hungarian ambassador would be recalled from Serbia. Having received a telegram with words of support from Russia, Serbia mobilized its army and responded to the letter, fully accepting paragraphs No. 8 “on taking effective measures to prevent the smuggling of weapons and explosives into Austria, the arrest of border guards who helped killers cross the border” and No. 10 “on immediate informing the Austrian government of measures taken in accordance with all points. ” Serbia actually or partially adopted paragraphs No. 1 “on the prohibition of publications promoting hatred of Austria-Hungary and violation of its territorial integrity”, No. 2 “on the closure of the People’s Defense” and other organizations conducting propaganda against Austria-Hungary and No. 5 "On cooperation with the Austrian authorities in suppressing the movement directed against the integrity of Austria-Hungary." According to paragraphs No. 3 "on the exclusion of anti-Austrian propaganda from public education", No. 4 "on the dismissal of all officers and officials involved in anti-Austrian propaganda", No. 7 "on the arrest of Major Tankosich and Milan Tsiganovich involved in the Sarajevo murder" and No. 9 “on the explanation of the hostile remarks by Serbian officials in the post-murder period”, Serbia demanded evidence. Point No. 6 “On the investigation with the participation of the Austrian government against each of the participants in the Sarajevo murder” was completely rejected, as it affected the sovereignty of the country. The Serbian response of July 25 was regarded by the Austrians as unsatisfactory and Austria-Hungary severed all diplomatic relations with Serbia [142].

5.You are too high on world leaders. All plans and conceived scenarios fly to hell with enviable regularity. All the parties' plans in the WWII and their calculations were instantly debunked by the harsh reality.
To calculate and understand such things, it is better to use the terminal forces of natural forces, where voltage increases reach the point where any convenient case immediately turns into kb and an immediate attack, while the situation itself and the configuration of the unions can change 100 times. For example, the destruction of the Russo-German Union, after it became clear that Russia would not allow Germany to gobble up France, and Germany would not offend the Ottoman Empire. The military plans themselves are being prepared non-stop, and for any occasion.

[murriou]

Quote: BlackMokona

1.This is already an internal idea, we are considering a diplomatic situation

Diplomats act not on their own understanding and not on a hunch from above, but on the orders of their government, just like the military.
If they have an order to evade war by any means, they will evade as much as possible.
If the order aggravates the situation and brings it to war, they will do so.

Quote: BlackMokona

2 .... the initial aggression that launched the massacre was Austria-Hungary against Serbia alone.

Formally - let's say yes, but it doesn’t matter: all the leading participants in the future war were waiting only for a convenient occasion, the blocks formed in advance, the rest wondered who would be better off joining the allies.
Moreover, the murder of the heir to the ruling monarchy is, to put it mildly, not a case that can be left unanswered.

Quote: BlackMokona

3. Having agreed to comply with all the outrageous demands of Austria-Hungary, except for the actual occupation?

I have already called you the option of an international investigation involving allies and defenders of Serbia.
This saved the national pride of the country and guaranteed the objectivity of the investigation, the need to deny which would be ridiculous.
And I'm not the only one so smart - the idea was in the air, and was repeatedly expressed at all levels, from "pique vests" to recognized analysts.
But this option was carefully "not noticed" at the top.

Quote: BlackMokona

Serbia did not want this war, or at least it masked very well

The Entente was singled out for Serbia the role of the first victim, and, in fact, at the same time as the war shooter.
The government had no choice but to obey, its allies pushed the aggressor for decisive answers and encouraged, and the Serbian people did not ask if he wanted to burn in the fire of war. It’s clear that I didn’t want to.

Quote: BlackMokona

Did Germany also directly attack Poland, or do you think Poland should have given Danzing to continue the policy of appeasing the aggressor?

You read the diplomatic correspondence and the press of that time.
To yield to the aggressor, of course, was wrong.

But Poland itself was an aggressor, having joined Germany in tearing apart Czechoslovakia, and at the same time greatly went too far, the first (!) In this region and during this period, having made an armed invasion of still foreign territory. The Germans at least waited for a diplomatic solution, albeit imposed by gross arbitrariness.

Poland before 1939 behaved arrogantly and defiantly in relation to Germany.
She, like Serbia in 1914, relied on powerful allies behind her.
For which he raked, as did Serbia in WWI.

Quote: BlackMokona

4.

This letter became known as the July Ultimatum ...

Thank you for the detailed and highly relevant quote here.
But ...
See above on the possibility of creating an international commission of inquiry, which did not infringe on the sovereignty of Serbia and it would be difficult to reject Austria-Hungary.
This option would be a good compromise, but it was not proposed by Serbia.
Do you suppose that none of the decision-makers knew about him, unlike many "couch strategists"?

Quote: BlackMokona

5.You are too high on world leaders.

On the contrary.
The ability to improvise, deviating from previously outlined plans, I consider dignity, inability - a disadvantage.
But the state machine is a very dumb and clumsy construction.

Quote: BlackMokona

All plans and conceived scenarios fly to hell with enviable regularity.

Yes.
But they, in the absence of a prepared alternative, continue to be executed as far as possible.

Quote: BlackMokona

All the parties' plans in the WWII and their calculations were instantly debunked by the harsh reality.

And this is also the holy truth! But - see above.

Quote: BlackMokona

The military plans themselves are being prepared non-stop, and for any occasion.

And this is also holy truth
but...

[Blackmokona]

You threw a lot, let's take it apart a little.
1. For example, look at the situation between Switzerland and Germany before WWII, there, too, the Germans agreed to a compromise when the Germans were ready for war. We will fulfill all the conditions except the sovereignty, as well as Serbia. Only the Third Reich did not attack despite the downed Reich planes, and other Swiss show-offs.
2. You re-read the requirements of Austria-Hungary, they did not want an international objective investigation, they wanted to get the people they needed, arrested within 48 hours without any compromises, to dismiss all officials who do not like Auto-Hungary, all media and organizations who do not like Auto-Hungary close and so on. And they did not want to present any evidence to Serbia.
3. Yes, but the decisive answer is to send a brazen ultimatum at all, and not to accept almost all the points.
4.A did the USSR take part in tearing up Poland, do you think this justifies German aggression against it?
5. Here you yourself acknowledge that state. cars are a dumb and clumsy design, and you expect beautiful and long-term thoughtful plans from it. And not ololo, the Serbian terrorist killed an important lump, Austria-Hungary is indignant, a great reason to start a scum.
6-7. We know how it ends with the fulfillment of the initial plans, when all conditions have radically changed. For example, the Soviet front of 1941. When the troops with a mighty blow went into endless cauldrons, they crumbled under the blows of Germany, and got stuck without supplies. Correct action is a quick adaptation to the situation, and plans can only be goal-setting in reality.
8. But as usual, they are only interested in developing the ability to make new plans on the go. Just like a skill training. there is usually very little benefit. Even when you yourself started the war, when everything is going fine, plans often have to be abandoned. For example, the Germans immediately after the outbreak of war with the USSR threw their Barbarossa plan into the stove. Even before the battles near Moscow. Even a situation is better than plans, breaks the plan into pieces, and it needs to be thrown.


9. I will also express that I rarely find such an informed and adequate interlocutor.

[Former battalion commander]

Why don't you meddle in a foreign country with arms in hand! I am surprised at Putin! With his "blessing", the Turks entered Syria. And he, like shit in his mouth, is silent about this ...

[Cat man null]

Quote: Former battalion commander

... I'm surprised at Putin! With his "blessing", the Turks entered Syria. And he scored like shit in his mouth ...

- Your bad manners are comparable only with your ignorance (s)

[Former battalion commander]

Listen, you are our educated and educated ... Here, no upbringing will be enough when the idiot took control of a great (once) country ...

[zoolu300]

Putin is not stupid, but only a "hired manager" of the ruling Russian "oliarchy", but the "oligarchy" is really stupid, because he trembles for his green paper and children in Yale, fearing to conflict with the owners of the Fed.

[Incvizitor]

Turkish military bombed by Syrian air force in northern ATS

Well, get out of there what's the problem? Were you called there?

[Alex_Tug]

Quote: saturn.mmm

Quote: BlackMokona

It is a pity that the Unified State Examination is walking in Russia and people no longer remember that Sweden was defending itself in the Northern War.

If Sweden had not captured the Baltic lands, there would have been no need to defend itself.

Who cares. Sweden defended or attacked. Russia needed access to the Baltic Sea and Peter 1 achieved this goal.

[Blackmokona]

Who cares. Sweden defended or attacked. Russia needed access to the Baltic Sea and Peter 1 achieved this goal.

I do not argue with geopolitical necessity, I argue with direct lies and myths declaring the defensive nature of that war.

[murriou]

You are certainly certainly right in many ways, and you are well aware of the political alignment of the events discussed here. I express my respect and plus.
But "not everything is so simple" (C).

Sometimes aggression, formally unquestionable, is caused by the persistent driving of the future aggressor into a corner by the future "victim of aggression", as was the case with Japan before 1904 and before 1941.
Sometimes - by setting the "victim" and the "aggressor" against each other by third parties, or by provocation by third forces, or by playing the victim by its allies "in the dark", as happened with Poland in 1939 and Serbia in 1914.

In the case of the Northern War, in its background there was too much Swedish expansion and arrogance of Charles 12, there was an established anti-Swedish coalition on this basis, the participants of which also had their own interests and their views on the situation.
All this, too, must not be overlooked.

[Blackmokona]

Let's look at Japan, for example. She committed blatant aggression against China in 1937, and started the war by committing monstrous and countless war crimes against the Chinese people. Even their veterans of punitive SS battalions would not have kept their dinners in their stomachs from their crimes. USA, embargoed on the supply of oil. Instead of geological exploration (Japanese Manchuria controlled huge reserves of oil before the 1937 war) or the construction of synthetic fuel plants. what did the Germans do. Japan considered herself cornered and attacked the United States. Although she had two options that allowed her not even to change strategy, tactics and her inhuman behavior. This is your cornering?
The aggressor is always looking for an excuse.

[murriou]

Quote: BlackMokona

The aggressor is always looking for an excuse.

Like other criminals.

But at the same time, sometimes these excuses are completely false ("she provoked me by wearing a short skirt"), sometimes there are reasons under them.

As in ordinary criminal law, there are extenuating circumstances, and there are completely justifying circumstances - for example, unintentional murder is a much less serious crime than murder on a deliberate intent, and a state of necessary defense or an unfortunate coincidence of accidental circumstances justify the death / injury to a large extent or completely .

And such cases can be built in a number of shades between the extreme abstract ideal states that do not exist in reality, from "pure white" to "pure black".

In the case of Japanese war crimes against China and humanity, they have no meaningful excuses.

The sudden shutdown of the Japanese oil supply is another case. Geological exploration with the subsequent organization of field development, and the establishment of the production of synthetic gasoline from coal, required several years of very hard work.

Coal for this, incidentally, also had to be taken from somewhere - the Germans had their own coal in abundance, and the world's most powerful chemical had been created earlier. industry, there have been many years to create and develop a method.
And the Japanese economy demanded that everything needed was "already yesterday."

In addition, the United States suddenly blocked the Japanese also from outside the scrap metal, the main source of metal for Japanese industry.
And then the Japanese had no choice: either right now, a war with uncertain consequences in a few years, or a complete collapse of the economy right now.

Before the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese for several years sought a diplomatic solution to the brewing conflict caused by Russian expansion in the zone of Japanese vital interests. The oligarchic rule of Japan was afraid of a war with a great power, and offered Russia compromise options for dividing the spheres of influence, but the tsarist government did not agree to the slightest concessions and quite clearly ignored all attempts at a diplomatic solution, even refused the Japanese delegation to meet with any decisive figures of the Russian side by several months.

This ultimately led to a war in which Russia lost ALL of its gains over several decades of Far Eastern expansion, plus almost one hundred thousand Russian lives and a significant share of its international authority.

I see the guilt of the tsarist government primarily in its incompetence, and in the unpreparedness of the country for the war with Japan, in which it also involved the country.
As one anecdote says, "if you don't know how to fly, don't show off."

[Alex_Tug]

As one anecdote says, "if you don't know how to fly, don't show off."

Like a parable. Remember how the Falcon in Vnukovo crashed the president of some oil company. So:
- 1st percent: I see an obstacle
- 2nd percent: I do not have time to remove the chassis, 6 seconds, crash in 2 seconds
- 3rd percent: I can’t maneuver, I’ll hit a wing on a strip
- 4th percent: and hu ... whether
- 5-6th percentages: why were we demolished by 50 meters? Incorrect weather conditions entered the cabin or did weather forecasters give incorrect data?
- 7th percent: I'll play you a funeral march
the debriefing showed that the error in the software was detected by testers and corrected by the developer. It’s just that the jet did not go through MOT and did not update the software. The result - on the dock some kind of snowplow driver and student dispatcher.
Marshals of the FAC would have sorted out the situation, and the IC of Russia had not even requested any data from either Dassault and Honeywell. And so we live, we spent time on an analytical note for TFR for two weeks. There was no request.

[murriou]

Quote: Alex_Tug

the debriefing showed that there was a mistake in the software ... in the dock there was a driver of a snowplow and a student dispatcher.

We note in parentheses that, as far as I remember that story, the snowblower was supposed to be not at all there, why he was suspected of an accomplice in conspiracy to kill, and the dispatcher messed up with something there.

Yes, if not for such an accident, their sins would not only get away with them, but would go completely unnoticed.

No luck, yes. And raked for trifling, in fact, flaws immediately prohibitively many.

But you can’t say that at all. It's like a traffic cop for small money missed a truck without a queue and without inspection, and then it turned out that there was an explosive plus weapons in the truck, and that’s all, for three pennies, the traffic cop’s life was spent on such a petty business.

[Wolka]

In any case, the Turkish military in Syria is acting illegally, which actually denies them the right to make any claims to official Damascus, that’s it, don’t break your mouth ...

[Niccola Mack]

The situation is getting more and more interesting - the Turks have already "arrived"!
Now they are likely to mate with the Kurds in Syrian territory and so on.
This will end with the fact that they will fall either under our fire, or the Yusovites, believing that they are at war with the Syrians.
In general, a fire in a brothel during a flood.
Our what they think about it?

[Mentat]

Quote: BlackMokona

Who cares. Sweden defended or attacked. Russia needed access to the Baltic Sea and Peter 1 achieved this goal.

I do not argue with geopolitical necessity, I argue with direct lies and myths declaring the defensive nature of that war.

It was a war of liberation. Russia returned access to the Baltic Sea and defended its interests. The Northern War was a response to the aggression of Sweden, therefore, it could not be defensive for Sweden in terms of meaning, because was a consequence of aggressive, aggressive actions of Sweden.

And in general, finally read the dictionary:
“The symbolic name of the war, the basis of which is the reflection of aggression, the protection of the territory (borders) his the state and the collapse of the enemy’s active offensive operations. ”
(http://war_peace_terms.academic.ru/241/WAR WAR
DROPPING)

Novgorod land was fucking its purely Swedish land, right?

You carry nonsense here already a lot of messages in a row, trying to make Russia an aggressor against the poor peaceful Swedes, you have to poke your nose into the facts.

[Blackmokona]

1.All of the above does not change the fact of the attack on Sweden in the Northern War.
2. Those lands were lost after Russia attacked the Livonian Order, and Sweden, an ally of the Livonian Order, stood up for him. Lands taken away from the aggressor, become lands reflecting aggression. Or offer to give the Germans Kaliningrad?

[zoolu300]

Good. Although Russia was the attacking side in the Northern War, how do you personally feel about the fact that these territories became part of Russia. Is it positive or negative?

[Mentat]

Quote: BlackMokona

USSR took part in tearing Poland

Another pseudo-historical burping.
You are constantly trying, hiding behind tons of a banal text, to push through the idea of ​​Russia as an aggressor country, while posing as an expert in history.

Reducing to the essence, all these "attacks on the East" in Polish, lawlessness, the seizure of indigenous Russian lands, numerous attempts to conquer, attempts to destroy Russia led to Poland overtaking itself, resulting in its total weakening and final fall as a significant European powers.

At the same time, the USSR in no sections namely Poland, its historical territories, did not participate. we have returned, again, the waves that were pulled by the Poles to the sound of noise during the weakness of Russia after the revolution of the territory of Belarus and Ukraine, mainly.

What nafig partition of Poland? She finally rolled up her lip, sagging to the floor and was reminded of the Curzon Line, with which Poland itself, incidentally, at one time agreed. So then what kind of partition of Poland can we talk about if they agreed on this border, knowing full well that not their people are behind this line, and these lands are not Polish territory as such?
On the contrary, again we are talking about liberation from the occupation, now Polish, of our territories.

For some reason, all these Western screechers about the “partition of Poland” do not want to name the sections of Czechoslovakia, Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine carried out by Poland. Something is not even heard of such references.
Therefore, you need to put facts on their faces, politely expressing them.

[Mentat]

Quote: BlackMokona

Those lands were lost after Russia attacked the Livonian Order and an ally of the Livonian Order Sweden stood up for it. Lands taken away from the aggressor, become lands reflecting aggression.

You continue to try to powder someone's brain.

For your information, Pskov withstood 26, twenty six, a siege of your peace-loving aki “not aggressors” from Livonia and Co.

In addition to constant attacks, raids and attempts to conquer, Livonians and Hanseatic moneybags finally became insolent and blocked merchant ships, prohibiting trade with Russia. These peaceful lambs did not shun piracy in the Baltic Sea against merchants who, despite threats, were trading with Russia. Little of, harassed and killed representatives sent for recruitment and commerce. Money flowed past the Revel merchants and merchants from the Hansa, and they engaged in lobbying for the technological and economic blockade of Russia. Livonians also refused to pay compensation under the peace treaty for their revelry. This could not continue further, which led to the defeat of the Livonian Order and Co., which had finally lost the coast, and the fall of Sweden.

[Prince of Pensions]

Quote: Expelling Liberoids

The Turkish warriors simply asked the igil to free this territory for a while.

That's it!

[lulec]

Turks generally need to be driven out of Syria and shut tightly to the Turkish-Syrian border, otherwise the war in Syria will be endless