Military Review

We disassemble the interplanetary transport system (ITS) for parts from Ilona Mask

197



The International Astronautical Congress in Guadalajara (Mexico), No. 67, expectedly brought a sensation - Ilon Musk made plans to colonize Mars. The light of the Elon Musk generation for more than an hour and a half talked about "Through thorns to Mars" (who cares, follow the link):
Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species Squeeze (for 4 minutes) - this beautiful movie, a great presentation in the style of Apple.


All the "paragraph". Roscosmos again late to Mars. All Pro-Pro-Polymer ™.

About the concept:
Elon Musk intends to settle a million people on Mars in order to "Save humanity from imminent death."



Passengers to Mars will be delivered by a spacecraft specially created by SpaceX developers that is able to comfortably accommodate 100 people and 450 tons of cargo on its board. Musk promises that by 2035, his engineers will be able to reduce flight time to 80 days (Be sure to remember this number, it will come in handy), and each shuttle will be able to carry out 12-15 flights.

“We are finding out how to take you to Mars and build a self-sustaining city to become a truly interplanetary view.”- said Musk.
When using traditional methods, the cost of a flight to Mars will be $ 10 billion per person. Musk said that you need to reduce the cost of travel to “As many people as possible wanted to move”.



“We should proceed from more realistic numbers, for example, given the average cost of a house, which in the US is $ 200 thousand (the average price of a house in the US)”- explained the inventor.

Fine! - cried the whole enlightened world. And the most important Nobel laureate, inspired and abandoned classes in the gymnasium of the White House, even visited the launch complex of a 45-year-old Canadian-American businessman (magnate and inventor). True, it was before the Trump Gate.



I do not know about you, but for me (who is not a member of "progressive humanity") this presentation left a bewildering perplexity. I will try not to load with formulas, but simply, “on the fingers”, to crap the proposed technical solutions and characteristics of the devices.

Well, what "flew" ... to Mars?

The first shots cause frightened. The service tower (on the left) is smooth and polished. Ideal for wrapping aerodynamic object.


No technical devices, filling pipelines, elevators, cables. Only crowds of people walking in a truck on a beautiful glassed-in terrace. Real service towers in the warm US climate look like this:


We disassemble the interplanetary transport system (ITS) for parts from Ilona Mask


Or in our "eternal" permafrost something like this:


What is basically the same thing. The laws of physics, chemistry, economics can not be fooled. And he? Futuristic strict rocket lines and HTEC (Engineering the future) service towers. Without diverted masts, pipelines TC, elevators, service sites battalions of airfield services, capters of the ubiquitous ensigns - as it happened (is) in reality.

Of course, it is technically possible to make such a construction. Japanese car designers will design a typical soap box in 5 seconds.
It is possible to fill both stages from the bottom, having stretched the pipelines of the second stage filling through the first, the control of the PH parameters can also be carried out from the stern. Pourquoi pas? Question: what about the fig?

No, of course, there are such precedents (partial):


On the Proton cables, for example, go to a special contact pad between the engines. From below. But:
- His ancestor is still fighting MBR UR-500.
- The fuel components there are high-boiling (and Ilon also has supercooled methane and oxygen, in the liquid phase).

And yet ... "Feel the difference."
This is the Proton launch vehicle:

Impressive? Compare with the ITS starting complex!

"Fly" further. The first (it’s the only one!) Acceleration-march stage (reusable and).
Forty-two first-stage engines !!!!

42 !!!
"It's a fakinish, oh fucking shit ..." - so would my first "friend" Dmitry Konanykhin (a writer, by the way, and an "engineer", but this is secondary).
In defense of the pasta monster Ilona Mask put in a word. Part of 1
In defense of the pasta monster Ilona Mask put in a word. Part of 2

And I would be on 100% rights. I even would not blather in defense. "Sho again"? ™
Again the project of the “big silly carrier” a la OTRAG?

The Soviet H1 super-heavy-duty class rocket mysteriously smiles from non-existence (from the beautiful past), mumbling "well, well, let's see, porzhem."


However, both H-1 and Saturn-5 "rest."


The 10 500 monster weighing tons, throwing tons of cargo (or fresh meat) on NOU 550, tank diameters 12 m (remember, Saturn-5 has only 10м).
Quote: Dmitry Konanykhin
And here comes His awesome Majesty - Railway Envelope. You cannot change bridges, crossings, contact lines along the entire length of the route from the factory to the launch complex, so you must enter the design in the maximum size of the 3.7 meter.
Horror. It is even strange that Dima is silent.

We proceed smoothly to the next stage - the habitable module, the Martian reusable ship, the “Spey Shuttle”, which went over the steroids.


Handsome? What I see? Rather, I do not see! I see no signs of a rescue system.


In principle, this is logical for a "flight to Mars" one way “Kill the peacemaker” immediately “comes to mind” (Written by Volodykhin Dmitry).
My webpage There, too, the Swiss Confederation got rid of ethno-abundances (all niggas, Latinos, Chinese and Slavs) of the planet Earth in such a costly way.

Mask designers are right here: SED for hundreds of people and the crew will be completely inadequately expensive, heavy and daunting. Unrealizable in principle. SED for passenger cabin liner seen? That's it. And if the crash at the start? It will be very offensive.

This is not even “Columbia” and “Challenger”:
The death of the shuttle Challenger and the seven astronauts NASA

The crash of the American shuttle "Columbia"

A minute of silence is not enough here, here the International Criminal Court clearly smells and smells of Fatu Bensuda. Okay. They know better.

Oh yeah, yet.


No heartburn? The spacecraft 21 century proportions and number of windows reminds fantastic projects of the dawn of space exploration:


Or a glass house in space:


For reference: in reality, engineers always spent their talents on making portholes as small as possible and less in surface area. Laminated glass (capable of withstanding vacuum and micrometeorites) weighs a lot. The coefficient of thermal expansion should be close to zero (and this is only a special quartz).

Visual история, as fought with portholes in the American lunar module:


Example: Dome (MKS module)


Mass during launch - 1 805 kg, glass thickness - 10 cm. Still, all the windows on the outside are equipped with automatic shockproof devices (dampers) to protect the module from micrometeorite and space debris.


Next, we dissect one of the strangest presentation frames.


I do not believe my eyes! The main and only (the most difficult) stage with 42 LRE "Raptor" returned to the launch complex, to the launch site. Wow! Fake? "Coincidence? I don't think so!"

I will explain my outrage with this crying jamb. As is known, the PH starts vertically, with a pitch angle in 90 gr. The task of the first stage is to quickly go through the dense layers of the atmosphere (gain altitude), then the pitch angle tends smoothly to 0 gr.

After all, it is necessary not only to raise the payload to the altitude from 150km (NOO), but to give it a speed close to the first comic (from 6 km / s -7 km / s).
According to my sentiments of the "experienced rocket", the separation of the Martian ship and the stage will occur somewhere on the meridian of Tenerife.

The argument is the launch route of the 51,6 PH Soyuz:


Now try to calculate the fuel costs of returning our stunted first stage to the 31 site. And all three? This is how much fuel you need to:
- to extinguish the linear speed in 6 000м / с, and then return the container (with such mid-section and such mass) to the starting point from the height 70-100km?
-and if you land on an expensive one (and you must give it away, e is beautiful), the launch complex will go wrong and it will blabahnet?

After all, it was already:


Monster to fly to Mars is still not
Quote: Dmitry Konanykhin
Macaroni Mask
. This is a pasta! First, the return to the place of launch is a great loss of the payload. Secondly, why bother to sit in your own starting table? Saving time to transport the first stage? Well, do not make me laugh. Logistics is visible to a third grader.

Smoothly go to the "main dish". The idea of ​​refueling in orbit is quite sensible. And long nurtured inquisitive cosmic minds. The only question is what to fill? According to the SpaceX presentation on the ship, there are Raptor engines operating on supercooled methane and oxygen (needed for a braking impulse when approaching Mars, maneuvering in orbit and landing, since the electric propulsion in 200kW does not roll here). So, all the time of the flight to Mars, the fuel components will be stored in the tanks for landing! In large space, in the zone of action of our star "by the name of the Sun" this is a big problem.

Many people think it is terribly cold, but no - it is terribly hot. The entire flow of solar wind heats the design of the spacecraft (Skylab remember, the guys almost boiled, umbrellas used, while the air conditioning system was restored). Proper heat to go no where. Let me remind you, the colonizers to Mars flies 100 heads, each body radiates (except for natural waste) 70-100 watts of heat. Where to go? There is no convection. Only radiation (temperature not those) or ablation (mass in short supply). It is very difficult to dump excess heat in a vacuum (Dewar flask). And without thermal insulation of tanks, supercooled methane and oxygen will heat up and evaporate. Drain somewhere.

That is why real spacecraft in deep space take with them stored in liquid form when room temperature nasty heptyl and amyl (or similar high-boiling muck), or Н2О2 at worst.

Recall Voyager: The official website of the Voyager program long summers to him, by the way. Cryogenic stages live in orbit at best for hours. Yes, tanks can technically be insulated, but it will be a huge loss of weight, money and useful volume.

We will virtually visit the RSC Energia museum and consider tanks for the Buran, in which liquid oxygen could be stored for weeks.


Bachek tiddly, insulation thickness is significant. And if not bachyok, and bachische? Need any comments?

Martian ship:



Beautiful devil. Solar panels already in 200 kW.

Alas, designers-designers have won over engineers again. Knots turning the solar panels are not observed. The systems of orientation of the Sat.

Which is easier (more energy efficient) to turn the tower tank on the target or the entire tank body? WoT players will support me. In the presentation, by the way, the ship ignores the direction to the Sun. Accordingly, solar radiation, too. A flight to Mars along a “non-Gomanov” trajectory (I remind you about 80 days) is a separate song. Why "non-Gomanovskaya", so the presentation can be seen. Everyone knows (I hope) why now interplanetary stations fly to Mars for half a year , instead of 115 days on average? It's very simple - the faster we want to fly, the more we need to spend fuel on it.


The most economical option is on the top left. Gomanov transition. Do you want faster - pay by the fact that instead of the payload you will have fuel.
And now the question - how fast and expensive flight will be combined with an affordable ticket to Mars (100 pieces of Baku for the head)?

And for dessert. Landing on Mars.


Oh, mom. All this zhlygu on Mars to plant? Solar powered, electric propulsion? Heat Shuttle / Buran, you know how much weighed?

Are they not watching their own films?



I recommend to have some fun: "Air retardation and landing difficulties in a rarefied atmosphere of Mars"
space simulator orbiter
The simulator emulates all possible errors - you can break the ship on Mars with a high vertical speed, fly back into space without a chance to return or approach the surface with a large horizontal speed and break the ship, despite the near-zero vertical speed.

In general, landing on Mars is more difficult than on a body without an atmosphere (like the Moon) or on a body with a "normal" atmosphere (like the Earth).


The atmosphere does not allow to occupy an arbitrary position, you have to fly forward with a fairing, and to have it with a certain angle of attack, roll, aerodynamic controlled surfaces, remote control are required. Everything should be "heat resistant."

On the other hand, it (the atmosphere) is not enough for the full change (deceleration) of the characteristic speed (delta-V) kilometers per second at 6 minimum and for the full performance of the wings and other aerodynamic surfaces. Mars has a very dystrophic atmosphere (and poorly understood). The average pressure on its surface in the area 0,5% of Earth. All kinds of storms. MCC no, Hydrometeorological Center is also not observed.

It is inconvenient to use it for braking, and it is impossible not to take it into account either.


The monstrous presentation Mask showed a typical manager project. Which, however, was enthusiastically received by the public and became a sensation.
Fresh news - hundreds of people write to SpaceX, wanting to fly to Mars, obviously believing in the possibility and availability of such a flight.
If we had this - I would have cried about the victims of the USE.

For reference: the primary task of the Mars Colonial Transporter was the delivery of the future colony to Mars. However, as Mask recently noted, the rocket can go further. Therefore, the rocket offered a new name: Interplanetary Transport System.

Ahead of us "waiting": JUPITER, ENCELADUS, EUROPA and even SATURN


I swear: the ship “Hermes” in the previously mentioned masterpiece “The Martian” is starting to look like a fully developed project: it has solar panels turning, there are heat exchange system radiators, a reactor and an efficient engine, and a quite adequate number of people in the crew. I won’t even remember about carto on excrement (entertaining and useful chemistry / biology).

But he started so well:


And this presentation resembles some salsa / salsa:


In the article I mentioned the methane-oxygen LRE of the closed cycle RAPTOR and electric propulsion engines. If there is interest, I will be happy to sort them out. But this project is more serious than ITS and is already working.

Carbon fuel tanks are not mentioned, and there really is progress:


Another giant SpaceX project also stayed behind the scenes: last week, SpaceX made another sensation by submitting a request to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for permission to launch 4425 satellites.

Meanwhile №1:It became known what policy Donald Trump intends to pursue in relation to the study of outer space. Emphasis will be placed on the study of deep space and the development of manned space flight. According to Trump's space policy adviser Robert Walker, the newly elected leader intends to devote more attention to deep space and the development of manned cosmonautics. One of the first reforms will be the re-establishment of the National Space Council, liquidated by Bill Clinton. The organization will oversee all American space projects that will be subordinated to one task - “the study of the entire solar system by man by the end of the century”. The first target is a manned flight to Mars.
What a Trump administration means for space

Meanwhile №2:The editors of Nature, one of the most authoritative general scientific journals, have declared plans to colonize Mars unviable.
Fed up of Earth? Try mars

By the way: on NASA's 2005 website, flash games are dangling, including the “Find the way back to Earth” puzzle and the Mars Rover simulator with three levels - “Mariner Valley”, “Polar Cap” and “Mount Olympus” and t .d

Shl. Those who were able to finish reading this to the end, cause me a true admiration.

Used stories and photos
http://www.spacex.com/mars
http://static3.businessinsider.com
http://www.bullishdata.com
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com
http://uk.businessinsider.com
http://www.technobuffalo.com
http://www.gazpromcosmos.ru
http://planete-mars.com
https://en.wikipedia.org
https://geektimes.ru
http://www.astrodrome.ru/
video from: www.youtube.com


The idea of ​​ITS preparation was borrowed from Philip Terekhov @lozga (thank you very much) and many letters were taken from him again without asking
Author:
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  1. Rus2012
    Rus2012 23 November 2016 15: 12 New
    11
    Quote: Author: Opus (Anton)
    By the way: on NASA's 2005 website, flash games are dangling, including the “Find the way back to Earth” puzzle and the Mars Rover simulator with three levels - “Mariner Valley”, “Polar Cap” and “Mount Olympus” and t .d


    ... there is no doubt about Max, no one has canceled the pavilion shooting in the new Hollywood studios. And compgraphics have made great progress since the "lunar expeditions" ...
    So, we, our children / grandchildren, are waiting for unforgettable "reality / fantasy / fairy tales" ...
    "The masses demand bread and spectacle, the masters are obliged to roll them out ... "(c) the old axiom

    By the way, article + 1!
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 23 November 2016 16: 26 New
      +8
      Quote: Rus2012
      pavilion shooting in the new Hollywood studios no one canceled.

  2. Blackmokona
    Blackmokona 23 November 2016 15: 31 New
    +5
    Another illiterate raid on the Mask, love him here
    1. dumpy15
      dumpy15 23 November 2016 16: 22 New
      20
      Give the antithesis for any of the theses of the article, pzhl. Competently.
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 26 November 2016 00: 10 New
        0
        Author good

        Article in the style: "criticism of sales managers".

        I wonder who they bred? laughing
    2. opus
      23 November 2016 16: 25 New
      11
      Quote: BlackMokona
      Another illiterate raid on the Mask, love him here

      1. Well, I personally always protected him (the mask) HERE
      2. I will gladly Vityok your "competent" defense of what project
      Quote: BlackMokona
      80 days is a little considering, etc.

      1. This is not a Goman trajectory, 200 kW and a cigarette is not enough.
      Turn on the brain:
      What is easier to feed 100 people for another 70 days or give deltaV at + 4/5 km / s for a carcass of 550 tons, and then pay off the research institute 5 km / s
      By energy, I mean, by weight of fuel / food
      2. About the train gauge, you are not attentive; I am joking over Konanykhin
      Threat. He doesn’t carry them in America either.
      3. Only uo will turn 550 tons into the sun, not solar panels (300 kg). Fuel and yi this yo will not last longer than the nearest Lagrange point.
      4. Well and so on
      1. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 23 November 2016 16: 30 New
        +3
        1. Food, resource LSS, crazy about the isolation of the colonists, the effects of cosmic radiation, continue the factors?
        3.Only the entire ship will be turned to protect it from solar radiation, engines, landing fuel, cargo compartment with cargo will become a shield. And if the ship has already been deployed, why then turn the panels?
        4. Give one argument at a time, we’ll analyze everything, I don’t mind. Let's next
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 23 November 2016 17: 58 New
          0
          Quote: BlackMokona
          Let's next

          Let's.
          1. The weight of the ship with the appropriate protection from solar radiation plus the total weight of the rocket, taking into account "some predictions" - about 450 tons of payload.
          2. The size of the ship with the landing module, even if it is lightweight and half a year in the orbit of Mars, slows down the speed.
          3. Does the mass of fuel go into the weight of the payload?
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 04 New
            +1
            1. The weight of the ship is 1950 tons, the weight of the tanker ship is 2500 tons, the weight of the first stage for the launch of the ship is 6700 tons. Protection will be made by engines, cargo compartment and fuel for landing on Mars. The ship serves as the second stage, then five tankers refuel it.
            2. He will not go into the orbit of Mars, at all. It will immediately begin aerodynamic drag in the atmosphere of Mars, after which it will transfer to a jet landing.
            3.No.
        2. opus
          24 November 2016 00: 26 New
          +2
          Quote: BlackMokona
          1. Food, resource

          For, to disperse a ship with a net mass of ~ 100 tons in near-Earth orbit from the 1st space speed to the 2nd will require ~ 350 tons of fuel. ... Given gravitational drag, which is significant before the distance from the Earth is about 1 million km and becomes weak already in the orbit of the moon, its (fuel) amount rises to ~ 1 tons. The actual speed of departure from near-Earth orbit will be more than 11,2 km / s, depending on the pitch angle, but after a day of flight it will almost stabilize at this value.
          for 100 tons of fuel required 1600 tons of fuel.
          To enter the low near-Martian orbit, it will be necessary to slow down the speed by \ Delta V = 5.5 km / s. Consequently, a supply of fuel that is close to 2,5 net masses of the ship will be required.
          About what 550 tons of mass to "Mars" is delirium?
          The corresponding fuel consumption will be 4–5 times higher than the net mass of the ship ~ 350 tons. This gives an estimate of its starting mass in low Earth orbit of more than 2 tons.
          Quote: BlackMokona
          He will not go into the orbit of Mars, at all. It will immediately begin aerodynamic drag in the atmosphere of Mars, after which it will transfer to a jet landing.

          fool
          It will either burn out, or ricochet, (but burned out), or the weight of thermal protection should be 1,5 net mass of the ship.
          Why are you seriously so "poorly grounded"?

          https://topwar.ru/104158-razbiraem-na-zapchasti-m
          ezhplanetnuyu-transportnuyu-sistemu-its-ot-ilona-
          maska-skaz-o-tom-kak-u-maska-managery-inzhenerov-
          pobedili.html # comment-id-6407779

          1500 kcal per day is:
          -Breakfast = Buckwheat porridge (150 grams) with onion-mushroom sauce (100 grams). Tea or coffee, a slice of cheese (25 grams).
          -Lunch = Vegetable soup (250 ml) with an egg. Rye bread (40 g).
          -Dinner = Chicken breast (180 g) with vegetable salad.
          About 800g / day, per 100 people.
          Do you count more hopefully?
          About radiation..no la la
          During its flight to Mars, Curiosity measured the background radiation (RAD instrument): the equivalent dose of absorbed radiation is 2 times the dose of the ISS.
          A six-month flight to Mars is roughly equivalent to 1 year spent in low Earth orbit or two at a nuclear power plant. The result is not inspiring. But the Curiosity had no water, no fuel, no protection on board.
          Quote: BlackMokona
          And if the ship has already been deployed, why then turn the panels?

          do you have a ship flying in a straight line: Mars-Earth? What about the sun? but the fact that the Earth’s speed is orbital is about 30 km / s, and the orbital speed of Mars (24,13 km / s).

          What about precession of the spacecraft?
          And how many passengers are going? What about dumping garbage, waste?
          Etc.
          ---------------------
          You better not "factors" give, and FACTS.

          Quote: BlackMokona
          let's take one argument at a time, I don’t mind.

          Well don't make me laugh ...

          Why "give something"?
          You confuse mass with weight
          Quote: BlackMokona
          since for 80 days it will fly turned back to the sun,

          Quote: BlackMokona
          fuel economy for landing the first stage is negligible compared to the price of the first stage and t

          Quote: BlackMokona
          And since the ship is reusable, it will then refuel on Mars and fly to Earth, so those who need to return to Earth.

          yeah ...

          The first step of Saturn-5 was able to develop 3,6 km / s, which is equal to the first space velocity of Mars, but lost 1 km / s on gravity. On Mars, it would lose 1,2 times less, because Earth's gravity momentum is 2,6 times greater (the ratio of gravitational accelerations). Based on this, a Delta V of about 2,6 km / s will be required to take off from the surface and enter a circular orbit. Estimated fuel consumption at 4% of the mass of the spacecraft orbiting Mars.
          To return to Earth, Mars should be left at an angle of -90 degrees to its orbit, with a relative velocity v_ {rM} = 7.4 km / s. Given the losses due to gravitational drag, in the near-Martian orbit it is necessary to accelerate from 3,6 km / s to 8,9 km / s, i.e., Delta V = 5.3 km / s. After 200 days of flight, the command module will return to Earth, having a relative speed of 11,1 km / s, excluding Earth gravity. The latter will add another 11,2 km / s (2nd space velocity), and this acceleration will become noticeable at a distance of ~ 1 million km from the Earth. To enter the low Earth orbit would have to slow down at 14,4 km / s.
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 28 New
            0
            Therefore, I say that we need to analyze factors one by one. And then for a kilometer I write you the answer.
            Let's start with the first fact. For which IA did you consider your tons of fuel? Well, the entry into orbit made fun. Especially considering that you yourself thought that you need 2.5 weights to enter the orbit, and 1.5 weights for braking through thermal protection. Well netut him in terms of. Secondly, you obviously have overkill of gravitational drag considering the flight duration declared by Mask. And yet, the claimed mass of the ship in near-Earth orbit after refueling 1950 tons. Let's settle with this fact and move on.
      2. bastard
        bastard 23 November 2016 21: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: opus
        By energy, I mean, by weight of fuel / food

        More about diapers soaked in excrement, it should be mentioned, because they also have weight. laughing
        from the article:
        Elon Musk intends to settle a million people on Mars in order to "save humanity from imminent death."

        Well, dunce! Doesn’t he know how to count, even without algebra within 4 classes?
        Does he know the atmospheric pressure at the surface and the temperature on Mars? And gravity, and how will all this affect the health of immigrants?
        Alright, that's enough, that's already enough.
      3. g1v2
        g1v2 23 November 2016 22: 57 New
        +1
        To be honest, the article had the opposite effect on the planned one. If, before reading, I thought that this Mask project was just an advertising pi ... well and predictions of the future in the style of Jules Verne, then after reading the article I changed my mind. The article convinced me that Mask's plans are super expensive, super complicated, super dangerous, but FUNCTIONAL. laughing Prior to that, I thought that in the next 50 years this is not technically feasible, but here they essentially proved to me that it is just very, very expensive, but real. lol
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 November 2016 21: 06 New
      +2
      And illiterate because: Flight to Mars is now just a concept, not connected with reality, it is necessary to survive until 2035, materials and chemistry do not stand still.
  3. Pacifist
    Pacifist 23 November 2016 15: 41 New
    16
    I don’t understand what the author is surprised at. laughing
    People are sawing! Skillfully, with a twinkle, uneducated suckers are shaking.
    In addition to these technical problems, I advise you to study opuses on the psychological aspects of long-term work in a confined space. That is fiction.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 23 November 2016 15: 46 New
      0
      80 days is a little considering how many were already in different experiments.
      Yes, and those moments are sucked out of the finger, the railway gauge that Mask always had to the bulb since he carries the current missiles by truck, and the new missile will be carried by sea, the solar panel orientation system is absolutely unnecessary, since for 80 days it will fly turned back to the sun, the ship then fly back longer and therefore they land, the fuel economy in flight, which the author suggests will result in additional psychological stress and the consumption of supplies for the colonists, the fuel economy for landing the first stage is negligible compared to the price of the first stage, etc.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 42 New
        +5
        Quote: BlackMokona
        the orientation system of the solar panels is absolutely unnecessary, since for 80 days it will fly turned back to the sun,

        belay And the portholes in front ... what
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 45 New
          +3
          Quote: Pacifist
          In addition to these technical problems, I advise you to study opuses on the psychological aspects of long-term work in a confined space. That is fiction.

          Have you watched the Chronicles of Riddick?
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 23 November 2016 16: 47 New
            +1
            Yes, yes, there are no stars in space, Mars will not be visible when approaching it, etc. wink Portholes are likely to need the morale of the colonists.
            Have you watched the Chronicles of Riddick?

            In Mars 500, 519 days they were in isolation, but here they’ll not sit straight without chains for 80 days,
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 23 November 2016 17: 06 New
              +3
              Well, yes, the Russians were guided by their capabilities for 500 days, and Musk came - "" 80 counters in 10 days "... Damn taxi driver!
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 12 New
                +1
                Not guided, not 500 days. On Mars 500 worked out, the flight back and forth with the cost of sitting on Mars.
                Plus, since the author decided to argue with me, I decided to refresh the ITS data. and what i see.

                From 80 -150 days of flight, depending on the location of Mars and the Earth by years. Voila.
          2. Gray brother
            Gray brother 23 November 2016 19: 56 New
            +5
            Quote: sabakina
            Have you watched the Chronicles of Riddick?

            I watched another.
          3. zenion
            zenion 23 November 2016 20: 08 New
            +1
            And if there, God forbid, an Alien will start? Who will fly to Mars? Or maybe the Alien will return them to the Earth along with the introduced Aliens?
            1. VDV1985
              VDV1985 23 November 2016 20: 22 New
              +3
              So for the sake of breeding strangers, everything is started :))) This will be a new mask program after the failure of repeated starts :)))
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 24 November 2016 10: 34 New
                0
                Quote: VDV1985
                So for the sake of breeding strangers everything is started

                The main task of the Mask will be completed, reducing the population of the Earth.
                1. opus
                  24 November 2016 17: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  The main task of the Mask will be completed, reducing the population of the Earth.

                  painfully expensive.
                  Pol Pot (Salot Sar)

                  the Nazis (before him)

                  were more effective.
                  Although I pointed
                  “Kill the peacemaker” (Author Volodikhin Dmitry).

                  2021 - the formation of the Geneva Federation. They included the USA, Canada, Mexico, England, France, Germany, Italy, Autria, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway and Denmark. Subsequently, the composition of the Geneva Federation gradually expanded. In 2023, for example, Brazil and Latvia entered, in 2024 - Slovenia, Chile, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Peru, in 2025 - Finland, Latvia, India, Algeria, Zaire, Angola, Mozambique and Cabo. Verde (Cape Verde), etc.
                  2022 - Opening of the Labyrinth
                  2023 - the beginning of "protocolization"
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 23 November 2016 21: 13 New
        0
        Yes, most likely they will create a separate plant for such huge missiles - not far from the launch platforms, and they will move the rocket on a new tracked conveyor - much larger than the Shuttle had.
      3. Pacifist
        Pacifist 24 November 2016 09: 37 New
        0
        What 80 days, for life. Living in confined spaces. Walking in spacesuits. The team is limited. And about "this is a little considering how many have already sat in different experiments", only one of them can be considered conditionally successful. The one that was held with us. The rest are failures. When selecting crews for the ISS, all aspects are taken into account, including psychological compatibility and the prevailing factor of short duration. A maximum of a year and then, for individuals and with a change of crew. And now the question is: what will all this result in without tests and rebounds, if you cannot return? bully
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 24 November 2016 16: 26 New
          0
          Where did you find stupidity about failure? The same American experiment was successful.
          1. Pacifist
            Pacifist 25 November 2016 08: 43 New
            0
            Read the participants' reports and understand where.
  4. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 23 November 2016 15: 49 New
    +5
    Anton-Mask also wants to eat, and very much, since I decided to colonize Mars. And what will come of his plans, time will tell
  5. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 23 November 2016 15: 51 New
    +1
    Those who want to fly to live on Mars .. They just don’t imagine the truly colossal difficulties that they will have to face. And first of all, it is a matter of supply. In the case of the implementation of plans for the colonization of Mars, the first century, there will not be life, but survival. Which will be possible only on condition of uninterrupted supplies from the Earth.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 40 New
      +6
      What are you? The Mask rocket will quickly deliver and will fly away immediately for a new party, the Cosmost bridge is called. wink
    2. Kelwin
      Kelwin 25 November 2016 00: 03 New
      +3
      And most importantly, there is no hay barn! Where to come in the evening? In the corner module, or what?)) There was a joke about Vitsin like, "How many times have I finished? -Three, but she hasn't come yet ...")
  6. askold
    askold 23 November 2016 15: 59 New
    +6
    A presentation, of course, is not a project, but a creative ... And it’s ridiculous to consider such objects of creativity as serious developments. So do not mock, let people work for us, by the way, it would also be nice ...
    As for the Americans, they even managed to land with presentations, even without presentations, and astronauts on the moon ...
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 23 November 2016 16: 23 New
      +9
      That's just on Mars they were not enough.In general, it is interesting how adult uncles are trying to seriously consider this crazy project.
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 37 New
      +5
      God help in watching. Do not burn the sofa.
    3. dumkopff
      dumkopff 23 November 2016 16: 56 New
      +4
      That is yes. This cannot be taken away from them. The trouble is that this was not so necessary for the astronautics. For over 40 years no one has flown there and 0 suffering. Voyagers, Vikings and other Hubbles were noticeably more useful.
      Yes, and the state launched, serious people. And Elon Musk is some kind of Ostap Bender, and not an equal to the Queen and Von Braun.
    4. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 23 November 2016 17: 52 New
      +4
      Well, let Musk first try to land on the moon. Charlatan.
    5. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 23 November 2016 22: 21 New
      0
      A presentation, of course, is not a project, but a creative ... And it’s ridiculous to consider such objects of creativity as serious developments.
      Then the place of this presentation is in Hollywood or at the congress of schoolchildren. And not at a serious scientific gathering.
    6. Severomor
      Severomor 24 November 2016 12: 53 New
      0
      Quote: askold
      So do not mock, let people work for us, by the way, it would also be nice ...
      As for the Americans, they even managed to land with presentations, even without presentations, and astronauts on the moon ...


      Yeah, thanks for the photo. I look and understand, we are hopelessly behind them. 50 years at least. I don’t even know what we are missing. It seems that everything has talents, and people know how to work, and the directors are not bad, and there are actors.
      But we can’t take it so beautifully. Maybe there are no normal pavilions and movie studios? Maybe hardware? Such an insult takes from them there is Hollywood, and we all the studios were torn apart, only now we are slowly recovering)))
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 24 November 2016 14: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Severomor
        But we can’t take it so beautifully. Maybe there are no normal pavilions and movie studios? Maybe hardware? Such an insult takes from them there is Hollywood, and we all the studios were torn apart, only now we are slowly recovering)))

        There is not much money, the niche is already occupied by more advanced and wealthy producers, although ours are trying to make something on American technology, that Bekmambetov is making films for a foreign audience, that Bondarchuk is trying.
  7. Engineer
    Engineer 23 November 2016 16: 28 New
    +4
    I honestly can’t understand why on our website the Mask is so disliked? The author of the article really wants to buy Tesla, but there is not enough money, so is he taking out his anger or something? Successful businessman engaged in creative projects. Yes, much does not work for him, but many victories. By the way, the author didn’t succeed in preparing the preparation, all the more so the analysis of spare parts, since the author is not an outlier in such spare parts. But Musk manufactures such spare parts, assemblies and finished products and uses it commercially. Somehow envious of a successful businessman and his ambitious projects is a little stupid. He earns money on them and a lot of money, and your article will look like an envious throwing substance is known.
    1. opus
      23 November 2016 16: 49 New
      +7
      Quote: Engineer
      I honestly can’t understand why on our website the Mask is so disliked? The author of the article really wants to buy Tesla, but there is not enough money, so is he taking out his anger or something?

      1. The author of the article, the next car after a diesel SUV of a well-known brand, will be Tesla, as soon as the TP and the tax from the owners of the vehicle are reduced. The order is negotiated.
      2. There is enough money, I do not complain much, I pay serious taxes
      3. The author understands rocketry, Semu confirmation diploma, VUS and work experience
      4. This is not a throwing of feces: Mask has never had such a mediocre presentation.
      The article was called: ***. Or the story of how the engineers of the engineers won.
      The editor removed the snot.
      5. The author always defended tuta / here Ilona. Reasonedly. Yes, and earlier I would have read it as an honor to work in his group of railways (for the raptor, for example). The age and presence of Russian citizenship impede this.
      The author has an older child since May 2016 just trying to get a job working in space x since 2017 and may burn out (citizenship and age, as well as English / Spanish) my child is not a hindrance.
      Something like this.
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 53 New
      +1
      If one day, your "Tesla" converts you into atoms, you will remember steam engines with great nostalgia.
      1. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 02 New
        +1
        Tesla Model S - crash test record holder
        The electric car not only won 5 stars in each of the NHTSA crash test categories, but also turned out to be safer than all other cars.

        http://www.popmech.ru/vehicles/14602-tesla-model-
        s-rekordsmen-krash-testov /
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 23 November 2016 17: 29 New
          +3
          Well, yes, but in the USSR in the winter we drove on summer tires and didn’t get into public transport stops. Boom to argue?
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 30 New
            +1
            And then the USSR? I pointed out that the car is the safest, in response to your comment, about the death from the Tesla accident.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 23 November 2016 18: 19 New
              +1
              I did not write about DPT. I wrote about Akki Tusla.
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 35 New
                +3
                Gasoline burns and explodes much more often. Only between him and the driver, there is no titanium shield. Therefore, it is safer with batteries.
                1. sabakina
                  sabakina 23 November 2016 18: 39 New
                  +1
                  So can we fly to Mars on batteries? And what? We are flying, the sun is charging!
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 41 New
                    +4
                    And what does it have to do with it? Have you completely lost the thread of the conversation? wassat
    3. Corsair
      Corsair 23 November 2016 18: 22 New
      +7
      Quote: Engineer
      I honestly can’t understand why on our website the Mask is so disliked?

      It’s just that a person uses existing technologies, passing them off as progress and development, but all this is done with such pathos and PR that it is enough for educated people to be funny and sad.
      1. A battery-powered car, and there have already been eleven years, there are only batteries that were not large enough before, a beautiful shell - well, beautiful, and then what? Good advertising, marketing chips and brains. Until more interesting and new sources of energy conservation appeared, electric cars looked more like a toy.
      2. A module with a vertical landing - it seems that their own lunar module had the same one or they forgot how to use it, but they forgot how to make a lunar taxiway. And our people did it, tried it, only they didn’t see the point of reusing what was subjected to non-feeble overloads.
      3. The vacuum train - it’s probably seen somewhere in the airmail in action - doing such an experiment with living people is akin to flying into space or diving to great depths, it can really be put into the train right away in any spacesuit.
      Musk went through the trick on how to make money, which was previously done by Steve Jobs, an earlier manufacturer of Marlboro, etc. The main thing is to create an army of fans, fans of the idea, creating a certain image of elitism, clubbing, a certain superiority over others with a general inferiority and the impossibility of thousands of people to compete with really smart and successful people, then there will be kilometers of queues when the next "gadget" or "idea" goes on sale ...
    4. Rus2012
      Rus2012 23 November 2016 20: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Engineer
      Successful businessman engaged in creative projects.

      ... before pouring oil and offering up a haloing mask,
      they asked about the cause of the last crash of his falcon.
      And there everything turned out to be routine ... and an illiterate design - "... the cause of the explosion was the leakage of helium into the oxygen tank with the further destruction of the latter ..."
      And all because the container with helium was subjected to ultra-low temperatures of supercooled oxygen ...
  8. sabakina
    sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 35 New
    +2
    Musk promises that by 2035 his engineers will be able to reduce the flight time to 80 days (be sure to remember this figure, it will come in handy)

    I still do not understand why we had to remember this?
    The second one. Until mankind learns to overcome gravity, no one will fly anywhere beyond Earth orbit.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 23 November 2016 16: 41 New
      +2
      That is, a person does not know how to overcome gravity, and is aviation and astronautics a myth? wink And if about gravity control, then why? When can you just put the engine more powerful?
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 55 New
        +3
        I hastily put it that way. Probably drive. In short, RD will not lead us beyond Earth orbit.
        Is the engine more powerful? Have you seen a UFO track on a UFO?
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 23 November 2016 16: 57 New
          +2
          So already three vehicles are leaving our solar system (Voyager 1, Voyager 2, and New Horizons) What is the problem of flying where you need to?
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 23 November 2016 16: 59 New
            +2
            I don’t understand. Do you want to send robots or living creatures to RD?
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 01 New
              +1
              So the essence of the dispatch does not change, we derive the payload on the desired trajectory, for people we have only a limit to the maximum overload, and the high cost of payload per day to support life. The rest is unchanged
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 23 November 2016 19: 56 New
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                So the essence of sending does not change

                The essence of sending changes dramatically, you have to build either a very large ship or you need to somehow provide the ship with a lot of energy - to power electromagnets - to protect against cosmic radiation.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 24 November 2016 16: 30 New
                  0
                  No electromagnets are needed, the radiation level on the way back and forth without the slightest protection and very slowly, according to the data
                  That is, a six-month flight to Mars is approximately equivalent to 1 year spent in low Earth orbit or two at a nuclear power plant.

                  https://geektimes.ru/post/181608/
                  Let me remind you that our astronaut set a record for arrival on the ISS, in 803 days. That is, he could fly back and forth, and he did not have any health problems.
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 24 November 2016 18: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    No electromagnets are needed, the radiation level on the way back and forth without the slightest protection and very slowly, according to the data

                    This is simply not true.
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    Let me remind you that our astronaut set a record for arrival on the ISS, in 803 days.

                    The ISS is located inside the electromagnetic field of the Earth.
            2. KaPToC
              KaPToC 23 November 2016 18: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: sabakina
              I don’t understand. Do you want to send robots or living creatures to RD?

              You have the wrong argument, it sounds right - chemical fuels cannot fly into space.
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 49 New
                0
                So Gagarin was not in space? And you know, he flew on chemical fuel wassat
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 23 November 2016 19: 37 New
                  +1
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  So Gagarin was not in space? And you know, he flew on chemical fuel

                  Musk is not Gagarin, where to get a million Gagarin?
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  And you know, he flew on chemical fuel

                  Swam? This is flying in the atmosphere, but what are they doing in space?
                  The energy of chemical fuel is not enough for a flight to Mars, as well as to the Moon, of course we can ditch our economy and send several people to Mars, but we need a reliable, fairly cheap transportation system.
                  Musk doesn't say "I fly to Mars once"! He wants to send a MILLION people to Mars. If in the sixties they did not abandon aircraft with nuclear engines, we would already have spaceplanes and flights to Mars would be real at a price of 2-3 thousand dollars per ticket.
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 42 New
                    0
                    1. Find among 7 billion residents, it is not so difficult to do this in 100 years, given the constant growth of residents and updating the list.
                    2. But Korolev is poor, he wanted to fly to Mars and back on 6 H1 rockets, with a carrying capacity of 100 tons, poor Mask, with his 6 ITSs of 550 tons, for one-way flight. Here's how he handle it then?
                    Nuclear engines are still hatched, they have a problem with the environment, they will pollute everything around at a tremendous pace. Not to mention the accident. And for example, explosions, we would now be allowed to build cities even on Pluto, but they are unrealistic for political reasons.
                    Therefore, you have to think about how to fly further in chemistry, since nuclear technology collided with ecology and politics.
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 23 November 2016 20: 06 New
                      +1
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      1. Find among 7 billion residents, it is not so difficult to do this in 100 years, given the constant growth of residents and updating the list.

                      You underestimate the complexity of this issue. You will have to send death row.
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      2. But Korolev is poor

                      Firstly, Korolev WANTED - but he didn’t fly, just as Musk did not fly.
                      Secondly, Korolev wanted to FLY, not fly. How many people and cargo should the Mask take at a time?
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      Nuclear engines are still hatched, they have a problem with the environment, they will pollute everything around at a tremendous pace.

                      How is Fukushima so badly polluted? The problem is solved by the choice for take-off and landing of uninhabited regions of the Earth.
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      explosives

                      Explosions are a force - you lay a nuclear charge under a rocket and go forward to Mars.
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      Therefore, you have to think about how to fly further in chemistry

                      There is nothing to think about, chemical rocket engines have come to their technical limit.
                      1. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 23 November 2016 20: 11 New
                        0
                        1.Why do you think why all astronauts get a hero automatically?
                        2. Korolev was not his own boss, with a bunch of billions of dollars in his pocket. The state has cooled and goodbye for now.
                        3.This is until a couple of engines will spit, and as they begin to put wherever possible, it will immediately become fun.
                        4. The Orion project was one of the most developed.
                        5. And here are the developers of detonation engines (+ 10% -30%), physicists creating metallic hydrogen (UI up to 1500 compared to 400 on ordinary), engineers with 3D printing, etc. They think otherwise.
    2. opus
      23 November 2016 17: 09 New
      +2
      80 days is not a Goman trajectory. Very energy consuming.
      Easier to feed people.
      An individual needs 2000 calories per day, even in zero gravity (as a woman over 50) = 1500 cal
      1 kcal = 4,19 kJ
      Multiply by 100 persons and by the duration of the flight according to Gomanovskry - 80 days, convert kilograms of high-calorie food.
      For 80 days, a capsule with colonists of MASS 550 000 kg should be given a deltaV of 5 km / s, and then it must be repaid.
      1 cubic meter of methane + 14 (17) cubic meters of oxygen will be produced by combustion, taking into account an efficiency of 33 mJ.
      Translate into traction / y and you will understand.
      80 days is to take fuel to Mars, or 500 days then take 100 colonists to Mars.
      And the electric propulsion with 200 kW (- the efficiency of solar panels and rd) will not save situevina
      1. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 17 New
        0
        Apparently you have not seen this picture.
        If you didn’t see it, then you probably didn’t see the other slides of the presentation.

        If you wish, I can throw the rest.
        And there is no ERD on this ship.
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 23 November 2016 17: 32 New
          +2
          People are people! After 5 days of weightlessness, people can not just walk, crawl? What are you? Completely unified state exam?
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 38 New
            +2
            Where did you get such nonsense? Our astronaut recently set a record, 803 days on the ISS, in this very zero gravity.
            After the capsule with the international crew landed early in the morning 146 kilometers southeast of Zhezkazgan, the astronauts fell into the hands of doctors, the first thing they measured was pressure, all three of them were normal. Then there was traditional tea, questions about well-being, painting on the casing of the apparatus, and again a physical examination.

            At that time, astronauts were already waiting in the VIP-hall of Astana International Airport. Journalists watched the relatives of Aydin Aimbetov, here were his mother Zhumagul-apa, wife Lilia, older brother Aydar in the form of a colonel-border guard, two schoolgirl daughters - 14-year-old Diana and second-grader Dayana. The youngest daughter prepared a gift for her father - she drew a rocket. But while astronauts were waiting at the airport, she was sleeping calmly.

            A few hours after landing, stands and smiles. (A man with the flag of Russia on his shoulder)
        2. opus
          23 November 2016 17: 41 New
          +2
          I saw all this, studied, read.
          You seem to have seen, but do not realize what you saw.
          It's very difficult for me to write / prove with an iPhone in one hand and a steering wheel in the other. And although traffic jams in the city are 8 points - no one has canceled the traffic rules. You really, if you have time and a keyboard: "competently" throw a confirmation of this project. And I'll read it at night, but from a computer
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 01 New
            0
            You just need to understand the points on which to answer you. It’s probably easier to just paint a project.
            1. The main goal of the project is to colonize Mars, landing more than millions of people on it in the next 100 years.
            2. For this, it is necessary to radically reduce the launch price, so that it becomes economically feasible.
            3. For Mask, the red line for implementation is 200 thousand dollars per ticket, that is, the price of an average house in the USA, so that the average person in the USA can sell the house and allow himself to go to colonize Mars.
            4. For this, you need to make the most reusable project.
            5.ITS is a two-stage system consisting of a first stage and a spaceship, which is before being launched into space. The spent first stage, returns to the start, and again prepare for launch with the tanker refueling. (The return to the launch cosmodrome has already been successfully completed at Falcon-9) After which the tankers launched by the tankers refuel it and it goes to Mars. After the acceleration pulse is issued, the ship turns toward the sun to protect it from radiation and solar flares. Arriving at Mars (without going into orbit, but immediately landing), he again turns around and performs aerodynamic drag in the atmosphere, with the transition to jet. Successfully sowing, he refuel on the spot. (Methane fuel, which is abundant on Mars and can be produced from the local atmosphere. (A compact nuclear reactor for Martian conditions has already been developed, and there will be no problems with energy) After which it takes off from Mars, due to the weak atmosphere of Mars and less gravity, it doesn’t we need the first step for launching, after which it returns to Earth and lands successfully, after which MOT passes, and starts again to Mars, and so on in a circle until the resource is completely depleted.
            6. First, there will be testing of all technologies and elements on the Red Dragon ships launched by the heavy Falcons. Then the first ITS will arrive and bring the equipment for the methane production plant, then the next one with a small team of highly skilled suicide bombers who will deploy this plant and prepare the base for the arrival of the colonists and cargo. Then ITS will start arriving on an ever-increasing scale, according to the above scheme. If the suicide bombers live to this day, they can go to Earth on a ship if they wish, or remain on Mars. The same applies to the colonists, they can always come back if they change their minds.
            7. The number of engines is currently not a problem, but an advantage. Remembering the launch of Falcon-9, with a failed engine that Dragon could deliver to the ISS. Musk claims that even if 10% of the engines fail at the very start of the launch, the cargo will be put into orbit. Compare this to the explosions on the H-1. in case of failure of any engine. Since then, electronics has taken a huge step forward, allowing ships to successfully display even with engine failures.
            8. In fact, with problems with the first stage, the ship can turn on its engines and wash off from the explosion, and then land like Dragon-2, its jet take-off from the Falcon-9 first-stage prototype and landing has already been demonstrated. Naturally, the problem with the ship is fatal, but there is nothing to be done. To put a hundred catapults will be very expensive.
            9. For reusability, Musk checks it on Falcon-9 rockets, the first contract for the re-launch has already been received by Mask, because of the accident, the launch moved to the beginning of next year. And in a couple of years, the benefits of such feints will be clear. According to the calculations of the Mask, the price should fall in the future by an order of magnitude. Due to the fact that the price of all consumables for launching the 62 millionth Falcon-9, only 200 thousand.
            I can write a lot more, but at least let's digest it.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 23 November 2016 18: 29 New
              +3
              BlackMokona's Profile:
              No name.
              No place of residence.
              In short, the robot.
              YouTube to you in education!
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 37 New
                +1
                savakina
                In the profile
                Nickname
                You can’t check your place of residence and profession
                In short, the robot. Glory to the robots. laughing
                1. sabakina
                  sabakina 23 November 2016 18: 42 New
                  +2
                  SBU? belay U! I'm in the mud!
                2. VDV1985
                  VDV1985 23 November 2016 20: 27 New
                  +3
                  It is necessary to rephrase - glory to the ignoramuses! Throw the fetters of education from the wings of management! Long live the glance at Mars, not overburdened with physics and mathematics! Hurray, comrades managery! Hit by the technical education management! (Applause turning into a standing ovation :)))).
                  1. fennekRUS
                    fennekRUS 23 November 2016 23: 39 New
                    +1
                    I support the previous speaker. I applaud while standing
            2. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 23 November 2016 22: 42 New
              +2
              3. For Mask, the red line for implementation is 200 thousand dollars per ticket, that is, the price of an average house in the USA, so that the average person in the USA can sell the house and allow himself to go to colonize Mars.
              Actually, point three is enough. We are creating a company for the sale (purchase) of the aforementioned real estate and one-way unsuccessful suckers sent into space (consider utilization) one-way. Total:
              1. in the debit - 200 thousand times 1 million real estate
              2. on credit - the cost of effective disposal of suckers. You can tell the public and suckers before starting about ... suspended animation, for example. Anyway, no one will come back to refute.
              3. in balance - proffit !!!
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 23 November 2016 23: 41 New
                0
                "In debit - 200 thousand multiplied by 1 million real estate" - These funds will be enough for Musk for everything, and if even one such ship goes to Mars and delivers cargo in an unmanned version for future colonies, then investors from all over the world will be at Musk's feet - and all doors in front of him will be open, including huge US budget funds. And there, fig knows him, maybe he wants to buy our DRM and NRM for his super-powerful missiles.
              2. Corsair
                Corsair 24 November 2016 11: 06 New
                0
                Quote: abrakadabre
                on credit - the cost of effective disposal of suckers. You can tell the public and suckers before starting about ... suspended animation, for example. Anyway, no one will come back to refute

                what that is, a rocket stupidly flew out, then the tourists went to waste, and can colorful computer pictures be transferred to the ground?
                I think then you can tourists even here on earth somewhere in the wreck, and a stupidly blank disc takes off. 100 people x 200 thousand = 20 million greenery, if the price of a rocket with a blank is reduced to 10 million, then a top 10 is provided.
            3. opus
              24 November 2016 00: 33 New
              +2
              Quote: BlackMokona
              (Methane fuel, which is abundant on Mars and can be produced from the local atmosphere. (A compact nuclear reactor for Martian conditions has already been developed, and there will be no problems with energy)

              fool
              1. Who said about methane on Mars? Did you drill?
              Curiosity rover puzzled scientists - his instruments did not find traces of methane in the atmosphere of Mars
              Data from the Mars Express probe in 2004 showed a value of about 10 ppbv,....
              on Earth, methane concentration reaches 1750 ppbv
              ukakayut "refuel"
              2. The smallest theoretical mass of a nuclear reactor (under normal terrestrial conditions) = 70 tons, almost reached about 90 tons.
              On Mars (due to problems with convection, TC R atm = Ratm of the earth at an altitude of 35 km), this is about 3 times more.
              And who sang nonsense to you about the readiness of a nuclear reactor for "Mars"?
              Quote: BlackMokona
              I can write a lot more, but at least let's digest it.

              I'm afraid it won’t work out. I definitely can’t digest enchanting nonsense ...
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 24 November 2016 09: 20 New
                0
                . "The smallest theoretical mass of a nuclear reactor (in normal terrestrial conditions) = 70 tons, practically reached about 90 tons." - A small-sized nuclear reactor, it seems, has already been made for the Martian expeditions.
                1. opus
                  24 November 2016 11: 38 New
                  +1
                  Have already done?
                  Would like to watch.
                  You do not confuse RTG?
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 24 November 2016 21: 22 New
                    0
                    Already created - "American engineers announced the creation of a nuclear reactor with a capacity of 333 kilowatts and the size of a piano, adapted to operate in the conditions of Mars and capable of providing a medium-sized base with energy and heat for 15 years.
                    Akansha Kumar and colleagues at the Idaho National Laboratory (INL) in Idaho Falls (USA) have been working for more than five years to create compact nuclear reactors that could be sent into orbit and landed on the surface of the Moon or Mars. For example, in 2011, scientists from this laboratory talked about the creation of a kind of "nuclear suitcase", a compact 40-kilowatt reactor, which is only 30 centimeters long and about 15 centimeters wide.

                    In their new work, Kumar and his colleagues increased the reactor power by an order of magnitude, significantly changing its design and adapting it to work on the surface of Mars. A special alloy of low enriched uranium and ceramics containing 15% uranium-235, specially packed in a special shell made of zirconium carbide and tungsten, is used as nuclear fuel.

                    An unusual material for the Earth is used as a coolant - supercooled carbon dioxide, which can be directly extracted from the Martian atmosphere, which consists of 99% of this substance. Since the air temperatures on Mars are very low compared to Earth, such a procedure does not require much energy.

                    The new reactor, according to scientists, will generate about 1,6 megawatts of thermal energy, about 20% of which will be converted into electricity, and the rest will be released into the surrounding space.

                    In order for the reactor to work continuously for 15 years, INL engineers inserted special "mattresses" made of uranium-238 dioxide between the layers of nuclear fuel. It is irradiated by neutrons from the decay of uranium-235 and is converted into plutonium-239. This plutonium interacts with neutrons and gradually decays, maintaining the reactor power at nominal levels as uranium-235 burns out.

                    Like the previous INL "nuclear suitcase", the new reactor will have very modest dimensions: the dimensions of its core are only 80 by 134 centimeters, which will allow the entire device to fit into a body the size of a piano or even smaller dimensions.

                    The safety of this "nuclear piano" is ensured by the fact that its key part - zirconium hydride, a neutron moderator that allows uranium-235 atoms to interact with it - cannot withstand heating to high temperatures. Accordingly, if the reactor fails, the zirconium hydride will heat up to a critical level, decompose into zirconium and hydrogen, after which the decay of uranium will naturally stop.

                    The authors of the article believe that their nuclear reactor could become one of the cheapest and most versatile power sources capable of providing energy to Martian bases and spaceships for decades without replacing the fuel, and for even longer time - with its renewal. "
              2. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 35 New
                0
                The rover repeatedly detected pure methane, plus an orbital probe did it.
                http://www.bbc.com/russian/science/2014/12/141217
                _mars_methane_curiosity
                Instruments on the Curiosity rover have detected methane emissions on the surface of Mars. The presence of methane in the atmosphere may indicate its organic origin.
                Robot's on-board spectrometers have long noted a very low background methane content in Martian air, but recently they have recorded several short peaks with a gas concentration 10 times higher than the background.
                On Earth, 95% of methane is of organic origin. Scientists do not lose hope that Martian methane may also be of organic origin.
                So far, the leaders of the Curiosity expedition cannot determine with certainty the source of the methane, but they believe that its origin may most likely be associated with deposits of methane hydrates, which are periodically destroyed under the influence of some unknown factors.
                "These are rocks with a crystalline structure, which contain large amounts of methane. They can be destabilized under the influence of mechanical or thermal loads, and then methane is released into the atmosphere through cracks in rocks, " - says Dr. Sushil Altreya, who is part of the Curiosity project team.

                2.With ITS from 450 tons to Mars, there will be no problems.
                http://www.mk.ru/science/space/2016/11/18/inzhene
                ry-sozdali-yadernyy-reaktor-kotoryy-prigoditsya-p
                okoritelyam-marsa.html
                American experts from the Idaho National Laboratory reported that they managed to create a compact and yet powerful nuclear reactor that could be used to provide energy to future bases on the moon or on Mars. Each such reactor in a hypothetical colony of earthlings would last for a decade and a half.
                The same group of experts presented an even more compact, but less perfect version of the nuclear reactor back in 2011 - its dimensions were 15 by 30 centimeters, and its power reached 40 kilowatts. Since then, scientists have managed to significantly increase the capacity of the reactor, while making it in many ways optimal for working on Mars: supercooled carbon dioxide, which can be extracted directly from the atmosphere of the Red Planet, will serve to cool it. At the same time, a special alloy of low enriched uranium and ceramics containing 15% uranium-235 is used as nuclear fuel.
  9. LVMI1980
    LVMI1980 23 November 2016 16: 41 New
    +4
    Hollywood and fantasy, cosmonautics doesn't even smell
  10. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 23 November 2016 16: 44 New
    +6
    To Mars in 80 days? I do not believe - in principle it is possible, but not in this century.
    On all other points - also the right criticism, ridiculous. But, on the other hand, dreaming is not harmful. I think they are not going to Mars seriously, because no one will give it to them, and they won’t fly one way, but they can collect something and make something can be successful and useful.
    We also need not to sleep. Today, the advice on science was - again, blah blah, some grandiose plans and programs - no less than the reorganization of all mankind.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 23 November 2016 16: 49 New
      0
      So how do you plan to colonize Mars without one-way flights? And since the ship is reusable, it will then refuel on Mars and fly to Earth, so those who need to return to Earth.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 23 November 2016 17: 16 New
        +2
        For, for the first colonists there will be a one-way ticket, and such people will always be found. But do you have enough technology to do this for the next 50 years?
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 25 New
          +1
          So all the technologies that are needed for ITS are currently either ready, or tested, or developed.
          What do we need.
          1.Engine.
          The Raptor engine is currently being tested.
          2.Fuel tank.
          It is currently in testing.
          3.Case.
          It is currently being developed jointly with the Japanese (the contract is signed)
          4. A nuclear reactor for the colonists, and getting the right amount of methane on Mars.
          Recently there was news that a compact nuclear reactor was created for Martian conditions.
          5. Jet landing. It is practiced on Dragons and Falcons. A jet landing on Mars will be tested during the Red Dragon mission, along with tests for getting water and methane in place.
          6. The control, communication and navigation system will be provided by NASA, which successfully (the Contract has already been signed) delivers its rovers and manages them.
          7. Residential compartment and LSS, this whole thing successfully works on the ISS.
          8. Refueling in space. Spent on the ISS
        2. Falcon5555
          Falcon5555 23 November 2016 17: 32 New
          0
          They can claim it while flying somewhere there, in the indefinite future. But when the time comes to collect the manat and climb into the rocket, I think there will be no one left. If someone remains, then they are crazy, from whom there will be no sense anyway. It is not a fact that they will not deploy a rocket in flight.
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 42 New
            +6
            Recently, half of the USSR dreamed of flying into space to overcome difficulties, and now they believe that such people do not exist, and if they exist, they are crazy.
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 23 November 2016 18: 13 New
              +2
              No one dreamed of flying away for a certain (long and painful) death. And if he dreamed, then see above.
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 39 New
                +2
                1.All of us will die sooner or later, only some can leave a mark as pioneers who created a colony on Mars, while others die on the couch from a heart attack after many years of boring and gray useless office work.
                2. Millions of people die a painful death, from which there is no use. Without saying that on Mars it will not be difficult to resolve autonasia.
                1. Falcon5555
                  Falcon5555 23 November 2016 19: 04 New
                  +3
                  So do not do useless office work. Find a useful one.
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 09 New
                    +1
                    I don’t do it, I generally tell. About pioneers and office plankton. About space and accomplishments. Previously, the Soviet Union promoted this at the state level, but now you can hear everywhere, and what benefit will these people have? Yes, they are all stupid people, if they sacrifice their comfort for the sake of humanity, etc.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. KaPToC
        KaPToC 23 November 2016 18: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: BlackMokona
        So how do you plan to colonize Mars without one-way flights?

        Exactly so, without the ability to return, no one will fly into space. We need a transport system that will work in both directions.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 10 New
          0
          So Musk and offers a transport system in which the ship will fly back and forth.
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 23 November 2016 19: 47 New
            +3
            Quote: BlackMokona
            So Musk and offers a transport system in which the ship will fly back and forth.

            Reliability of the transport system The mask tends to zero, as does the efficiency of this system. And all because using chemical fuel we are forced to save every kilogram - it's like on oars across the ocean.
            In addition, Musk has part of the transport system flying back and forth.
            If Musk were a fan, not a scammer - he would have declared exploration of the Moon - easier to get - a more realistic project, and Mars - Musk simply profiting from the dreams of millions of people in the most unscrupulous way.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 53 New
              0
              1.However, on oars across the ocean, mankind remarkably moved over.
              2. That is, do you think the methane plant, tankers, and the first steps also need to be driven from Mars and back? And so the whole ship flies back and forth.
              3.But on the moon there is no atmosphere, the lunar soil is much less suitable for growing plants, the temperature drops are stronger than on Mars, the resources are much less, and so on. It’s like abandoning the island better, because you have to swim away from it.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 23 November 2016 20: 22 New
                +2
                Quote: BlackMokona
                1.However, on oars across the ocean, mankind remarkably moved over.

                The amendment, we sailed across the ocean, but the real message was established only with the advent of steam engines, and in space, nuclear engines are like steam engines for navigation.
                Quote: BlackMokona
                2. That is, do you think the methane plant, tankers, and the first steps also need to be driven from Mars and back? And so the whole ship flies back and forth.

                So far, you do not have a methane plant, tankers and first stages on Mars, so far you have the first stage breaking up on Earth.
                Quote: BlackMokona
                .But on the moon there is no atmosphere, the lunar soil is much less suitable for growing plants, the temperature drops are stronger than on Mars

                There is such an atmosphere on Mars - that it would be better if it were not, Lunar soil is no different from the Earth, except that there is no liquid, it is closer in composition to the Earth's soil than Martian. What temperature can be in airless space, temperature is a property of matter, not space, you will freeze faster on Mars than on the Moon.
                Quote: BlackMokona
                It’s like abandoning the island better, because you have to swim away from it.

                The area of ​​the moon is comparable with the area of ​​Asia, for one colony it is higher than the roof. a hundred years before exploring it is necessary to investigate the celestial body in order to know in advance where what to mine, Mask does not have a plan for the industrial development of the colony, what does he think that the colonists will come up with everything?
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 40 New
                  0
                  1.On the oars, too, moving. And the colonization was successfully completed with sails
                  2.6 successes, and five failures for a new business. Not to mention that on Mars, such a landing is much simpler, due to lower gravity, and a rarefied atmosphere.
                  3.And experiments with growing plants showed that the Martian soil is much better. The atmosphere allows you to cut radiation in half, and so on
                  4. He believes that at the moment, you first need to create a transport system, not knowing how many tons you can drag to Mars and at what price. Without checking Red Dragon for a series of ideas about methane and other things, you cannot create such a plan.
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 24 November 2016 12: 19 New
                    0
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    1.On the oars, too, moving. And the colonization was successfully completed with sails

                    Even the Vikings sailed, no one paddled to other continents, and the colonization was successfully completed in a couple.
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    3.And experiments with growing plants showed that the Martian soil is much better. The atmosphere allows you to cut radiation in half, and so on

                    Who managed to fly to Mars to check? You wishful thinking. Also, no one will check the same for lunar soil.
                    Radiation is cut by the earth's magnetic field, and the atmosphere of Mars is so discharged that it is not only insufficient to protect against radiation, but also insufficient for aerodynamic drag.
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    4. He believes that at the moment, you first need to create a transport system, not knowing how many tons you can drag to Mars and at what price.

                    Did he forget how to count? Or didn’t know how initially? Loot, he considers it wonderful.
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 24 November 2016 16: 33 New
                      0
                      1. In the Pacific Ocean walked.
                      2. The lunar soil was checked, all data on the composition of the Martian soil were obtained from the Mars rovers, the soil was reproduced and also verified on it.
                      3. And according to the American rover, the level of radiation on Mars is lower than in the resort city of Iran winked
                      4. So we are talking about projects in which prices can easily rise, additional dry weight will appear due to detected errors, etc., etc.
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 24 November 2016 19: 01 New
                        0
                        1. Heh, in the Pacific did not know the sails? You drive sir.
                        2. Imagine an alien ship lands in Antarctica and writes in a report on the Earth - an ice planet surrounded by ice and ice, either in the desert or in the ocean.
                        Modern knowledge of Mars is categorically insufficient ... for the survival of the colony.
                        3. Everything may be, I will not argue.
                        4. That's it, but the Mask system has no margin of safety, the price will grow exponentially and ultimately exceed unbearable amounts - as a result, no one will fly anywhere.
              2. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 24 November 2016 11: 41 New
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                So, do you think the methane plant, tankers, and the first steps also need to be driven from Mars and back? And so the whole ship flies back and forth.

                In my opinion, it is more expedient to build orbital stations and to drive a ship or ships between them, and to stations from Earth or Mars can be delivered by various carriers, the technologies are more or less worked out. It’s already flying over the Earth, you can upset it.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 24 November 2016 16: 34 New
                  0
                  And than flying between orbital stations, all these super-efficient space engines are extremely slow. If it is possible to arrange mass transportation of goods by them, then there is no way to transport people. If Musk wanted to extract resources on Mars for the earth, then such a feint would be important, but he simply wants to create a colony on Mars.
            2. psiho117
              psiho117 23 November 2016 20: 38 New
              +5
              Quote: KaPToC

              If Musk were a fan, not a scammer - he would have declared exploration of the Moon - easier to get - a more realistic project, and Mars - Musk simply profiting from the dreams of millions of people in the most unscrupulous way.

              Applaud hi I'm glad that not everyone has lost their sanity.
              People, don’t you understand that this project - how to send people around the world on a tanker - is pointless and merciless? Stupidly carry back and forth a bunch of fuel and structural masa.

              The great minds of mankind have long understood and calculated these problems - it is impossible to conquer the solar system without mastering the natural "jump" cosmodrome - our moon!
              There is no atmosphere and almost no gravity, but there is free solar energy and regolith with a high content of iron, aluminum, titanium and manganese - build whatever you want.
              There is no need to climb up and down from the bottom of the Earth’s gravitational well, there is no need for thermal insulation for repeated passage of the atmosphere, and there is no atmosphere itself - ships under construction can be constructed light and rational - and not in the form of pasta!

              It is on the Moon, in its almost ideal conditions, that it is cost-effective to build a shipyard and a passenger terminal for sending in-system shuttles, but only people should be transported from the Earth and irreplaceable consumables - everything else, from the atmosphere and water, and to food and construction materials - this can be (and it is necessary!) to produce on the moon itself.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 23 November 2016 20: 46 New
                +1
                Quote: psiho117
                There is no atmosphere and almost no gravity

                There is no habitat so necessary for a person - you can use nuclear technology without worrying about the environment.

                In fact, the dream of another planet similar to Earth is the result of several generations of science fiction writers, but this dream itself, as you said above, is "meaningless and merciless." Why do you need an environment suitable for life on another planet, if people initially live in cities - only these cities will be a little more isolated from the external environment, it is from this that we must proceed that people will live on other planets without transforming them, otherwise the colonization of space .. . will never come.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 November 2016 21: 29 New
      0
      Russia is already beginning to test DDR and NRE - so who knows, maybe in this century we are still flying.
  11. guzik007
    guzik007 23 November 2016 16: 46 New
    +7
    I read it. Just did not understand. If the author tried to assure us of the utopianism of this project, then it was necessary to immediately translate into English for discovery. We already understand everything.
    Judging by the enthusiastic reviews from the west, there are a lot of idiots who believe in this project, and that lifeless Mars will save us from imminent death (what fright?), Our old woman, the Earth.
    But another thing is to rip off sheep from the herd, which they don’t know even basic things, but blindly believe in cartoons, enough dough is purely pragmatic. Here you can get into such cartoons. Fortunately, the scanty brains of the herd of sheep have already been abundantly disposed of and prepared by Hollywood chewing gum about aliens, disasters and Martian potatoes on poop.
    There they are dear, they can even be assisted by engines, if only they wound up with all the kagal. You look the rest will breathe freely.
    ... Recently, scientists have discovered that Pluto does not freeze due to the large reserves of fat ...
    So in connection with this, such thoughts overshadow me ...
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 23 November 2016 16: 50 New
      0
      Judging by the enthusiastic reviews from the west, there are a lot of idiots who believe in this project, and that lifeless Mars will save us from imminent death (what fright?), Our old woman, the Earth.

      If a nuclear war starts, or a large asteroid arrives, it will save.
      1. guzik007
        guzik007 23 November 2016 17: 06 New
        0
        explain to me, illiterate, how. based on modern technology, not even considering the complexity of the flight.?
        Well, not a million, but just ten people are right now on Mars, even with an annual supply of food-water-air. What's next?
        And do not forget, after Mars there is an asteroid belt, this is in your statement about meteorological hazards.
        Thousands of times more meteorites fall on Mars per year than on Earth.
        So, paradoxically, the next home for us will still be preferable to Venus.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 23 November 2016 17: 14 New
          +1
          According to studies, the soil of Mars is suitable for growing plants, on Mars there is a lot of water and carbon dioxide, on Mars there is the entire periodic table. On Earth over hundreds of years, 0 people died from meteorites, on Mars with a population of millions less, will die about the same
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 23 November 2016 17: 37 New
            +2
            Let's say there is the entire periodic table. For some reason, no one lives there ... And by the way, do you know that "us" are not allowed there?
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 07 New
              0
              Because technology until recently did not allow making flights to Mars cheap enough.
          2. sabakina
            sabakina 23 November 2016 17: 41 New
            +1
            We already have one singer from Mars, you don’t even climb into the Martians ....
          3. guzik007
            guzik007 23 November 2016 17: 55 New
            +2
            According to research
            ----------------------------------------
            According to studies, atm pressure on the ground is less than at the top of the Chomolungma. And the average t-ra -35 gr. When max -70
            . Have you tried to grow anything at the top of the world? Or do you have info on good practice.?
            Oh yes, I feel, you will now begin about greenhouses and greenhouses.
            Before you try, calculate, for starters, how much effort you will need to make so that even the smallest greenhouse on Mars, with a pressure inside equal to one Earth's atm and normal temperature, does not fly into space, as you will melt water (I’m silent about production)
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 07 New
              +1
              That is, of course, it is impossible to build underground laughing
              1. Falcon5555
                Falcon5555 23 November 2016 18: 55 New
                +4
                Well of course you can. Fly the dash-where, to be irradiated, put on a spacesuit, dig a hole, seal, inflate, warm, light, fertilize, plant, sit next to and be bored. Or go to your dacha, stick something in the ground so that in the autumn there is something to chew without running to the store around the corner, and to the beach, to educate the girls and the wife, and children, to chat with friends, and mushrooms and berries , and shish kebabs, and fishing, and in the evening under the beer, he will stare at the TV for a broadcast about how some strange people have fallen upon Mars to die there from hunger and cold.
                1. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm 24 November 2016 11: 47 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Well of course you can. Fly the dash-where, to be irradiated, put on a spacesuit, dig a hole, seal, inflate, warm, light, fertilize, plant, sit next to and be bored.

                  Once on Earth, too, they began with caves, without a telly.
              2. sabakina
                sabakina 23 November 2016 19: 01 New
                +1
                In short, tired of (rather uninteresting) butting with BlackMokona. In general, he:
              3. KaPToC
                KaPToC 23 November 2016 19: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: BlackMokona
                That is, of course, it is impossible to build underground

                Shovel in your teeth and go, feel like a Martian.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 31 New
                  0
                  Weak away gravity and atmosphere. And I’ll dig you a nice cave with a shovel, even those on Mars and so in bulk laughing
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 23 November 2016 20: 11 New
                    +4
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    And I’ll dig you a nice cave with a shovel, even those on Mars and so in bulk

                    You do not know this - why in bulk on Mars.
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    Weak away gravity and atmosphere.

                    Have you ever dug something with a real shovel? Believe me, air resistance does not affect this process in any way, and how do you put pressure on a shovel with three times less gravity?
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 41 New
                      0
                      1. I know, Mars rovers and orbital probes have long been studying Mars.
                      2. You probably dug to a shallow depth, and then did not suffer with pulling out the soil.
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 24 November 2016 12: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: BlackMokona
                        1. I know, Mars rovers and orbital probes have long been studying Mars.

                        They study in the wrong direction and not thoroughly enough.
                        Quote: BlackMokona
                        2. You probably dug to a shallow depth, and then did not suffer with pulling out the soil.

                        Are you going to dig deeper with manual pulling? With this approach, your colony will not last long.
                  2. Operator
                    Operator 23 November 2016 21: 08 New
                    0
                    Nobody argues that a flight to Mars is possible with modern technologies (methane + oxygen, carbon), but:
                    - The launch vehicle must be disposable and two-stage, unambiguously;
                    - a spaceship in the form of an assembly of fuel tanks, liquid propellant rocket engines and a landing module, also one way;
                    - the number of colonists should be minimized only for the conditions of exploration and mining, the production of convenience foods, food cultivation, medical care, and the electric power industry;
                    - flights of purely cargo ships with returnable modules for the delivery of processed minerals to the Earth should be organized;
                    - Housing, greenhouses and production facilities are located below the surface of Mars, since the meteorite hazard is an order of magnitude greater than the Earth due to the lack of atmosphere in which most meteorites burn out;
                    - colonists should be selected from among people of 50 years of age who have adult children on Earth, since returning to Earth is not economically viable.

                    And where is all this in the presentation of the project Ilona Mask?
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 45 New
                      0
                      1. If you make one-time, then the money will be very expensive,
                      2. Why, when the pH allows you to fully display?
                      3-4. From Mars to transport economically unprofitable resources, even gold.
                      Therefore, the colony should be self-sufficient in the backup paradigm.
                      5. The meteorite danger is absolutely insignificant, since on Earth no one has yet died from it. Multiply by a thousand imagine for Mars, divide by a million the differences between the estimated population of Earth and Mars. Get zero again.
                      6. It is economically unprofitable to transport people to Mars, in comparison with their independent reproduction on Mars.
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 24 November 2016 11: 09 New
                        0
                        1. Disposable is more profitable - see terrestrial launch vehicles.

                        2. Why engage in gigantomania when the assembly process in orbit of any complexes has been worked out?

                        3-4. The colony must somehow repel the grandmother spent on its creation.

                        5. You just can’t imagine the number of micrometeorites burning in the Earth’s atmosphere at cosmic speeds.

                        6. In the last paragraph, you are right, but the cost of importing equipment and materials. The cost of importing people is negligible at this point.
                      2. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 24 November 2016 12: 37 New
                        0
                        1. For money it’s already very expensive, the return of the ship is two more steps at the start, which increases the mass at the start (and price) by eight times, it’s cheaper to leave the ship on Mars.
                        2. On the ship Mask you will not get to Mars, this ship is for immortal heroes, and not for ordinary people.
                        3-4 But for example, it’s profitable to carry Helium-3 from the Moon at this level of cosmonautics development, brought a ton - like 1000 (thousand) trains with coal transported.
                        The colony should be economically viable, so that after the election of the next president, it would not bend without help from the Earth.
                        5. Mars is four times closer to the asteroid belt, in addition, on Earth, most of the asteroids burn up in the atmosphere, which is times denser than on Mars.
                        6. This means that your colony will develop VERY SLOWLY, and in fact in the first generations, mortality will exceed the birth rate and without the influx of (significant) new people from the Earth, the colony will die out.
      2. KaPToC
        KaPToC 23 November 2016 18: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: BlackMokona
        If a nuclear war starts, or a large asteroid arrives, it will save.

        Surviving on Earth is easier than on Mars even after a nuclear war.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 11 New
          0
          The biggest danger is a different person. The forces of nature did not stand nearby. wink
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 23 November 2016 19: 49 New
            0
            Quote: BlackMokona
            The biggest danger is a different person. The forces of nature did not stand nearby.

            But Musk is not going to send ONE man to Mars? And conflicts will be even more severe on Mars than on Earth - due to the limited resources brought from Earth.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 23 November 2016 19: 58 New
              +1
              It’s as if there are no resources on Mars. Not to mention that they send the best of the best, and not the scum from the gateway.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 23 November 2016 20: 32 New
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                It’s as if there are no resources on Mars.

                On Mars there are no plants for their extraction, processing and ... use.
                Quote: BlackMokona
                Not to mention that they send the best of the best, and not the scum from the gateway.

                The best of the best want to fly spaceships, not plow the Martian vegetable garden, or the Martian mine. The pilots will be "the best of the best", and the colonists - the "scum from the backyard."
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 23 November 2016 20: 36 New
                  0
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  1.Why do you think why all astronauts get a hero automatically?
                  2. Korolev was not his own boss, with a bunch of billions of dollars in his pocket. The state has cooled and goodbye for now.
                  3.This is until a couple of engines will spit, and as they begin to put wherever possible, it will immediately become fun.
                  4. The Orion project was one of the most developed.
                  5. And here are the developers of detonation engines (+ 10% -30%), physicists creating metallic hydrogen (UI up to 1500 compared to 400 on ordinary), engineers with 3D printing, etc. They think otherwise.

                  1 Where to get a million heroes?
                  2 Apparently the USSR did not have such a BIG heap of billions?
                  3 Contentious issue
                  4 Not in metal
                  5 Teach materiel what is a detonation engine
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 49 New
                    0
                    1. Select among the population of the planet.
                    2. The USSR had a much larger bunch of billions, but there was no desire. There were expenses and more important than being measured with the USA in space. There was an arms race, the nomenclature was getting fat, and so on.
                    3. Without options, they will immediately start making orbital bombers, fighter jets, various commercial liners, etc. and so on. The whole sky will be in the NRE.
                    4. So when it began to be made in metal, politicians agreed not to detonate nuclear charges in the atmosphere. Although the drawings of the ship, special nuclear weapons, etc., were already ready.
                    5. I know what a jet detonation engine is and what advantages it gives.
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 24 November 2016 12: 43 New
                      0
                      1. You dream, there will simply be no volunteers, not even heroic ones.
                      2. Here let’s without cliches, this is not a political meeting.
                      3. Undoubtedly, the first missiles were not built for Gagarin either, but for the delivery of completely different cargoes ... to America.
                      4. Who cares about other people's excuses.
                      5 Well, they should understand that nuclear detonation will simply break your engine along with the ship.
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 23 November 2016 21: 33 New
                  +1
                  Instead, robots and possibly mini-factories will plow.
                3. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 46 New
                  0
                  1.Mask is going to bring, at his own expense.
                  2. For such things, robots were invented.
  12. 501Legion
    501Legion 23 November 2016 16: 57 New
    +4
    A very extensive article, the author definitely thanks for the work and plus.
  13. ratfly
    ratfly 23 November 2016 17: 00 New
    +1
    Oh yes, let them try! Suddenly it will work out ... And we will analyze and take the optimal solutions. The main thing is that ours do not start playing in distillation as before. Like - "By the 20th party congress of United Russia - we fly to Mars! Hurray gentlemen!"
  14. Denimax
    Denimax 23 November 2016 17: 05 New
    +6
    A small video clip, a little PR, and millions of voluntary "migrants" are already in line. From each one a penny, and a decent amount is already being collected. The "mission to Mars" may have already succeeded.))
  15. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 23 November 2016 17: 06 New
    +1
    This tovarisch, apparently, decided in this way to perpetuate his name as the pioneer of interplanetary travel! Well, for the SGA and their semi-educated population in the mass, this will work; but what about other countries? It is “today” the states still rule in world politics, but “tomorrow” everything will change and all his verbiage crap will become a fertile ground for jokes about how Captain America conquered Space! fool
  16. Damir
    Damir 23 November 2016 17: 38 New
    +2
    Thank you Dear Author for an interesting article !!!!!!!!
  17. Jackking
    Jackking 23 November 2016 17: 45 New
    +3
    Honestly, I will begin to believe in a genius mask. But I’ll start only after he repeatedly launches the first stage for free. which landed and did not require major repairs, along with the engines :))) But after this incident, with all my heart I will believe in flying to Mars. Yes, at least on Saturn :)))
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 23 November 2016 18: 08 New
      0
      Nahalyavu not work, Musk is a greedy friend. And the first re-flight of the first stage has already been sold. The start is scheduled for early next year.
      One of the first returning steps was run for a full cycle, at the stand, 10 times in 10 days.
      1. VDV1985
        VDV1985 23 November 2016 20: 31 New
        0
        I believe :))) But not for you! For information - it turns out written without a soft sign. And not steps, but steps. And the whole text is similar to the translation from Aliexpress - within the meaning :)))
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 24 November 2016 16: 36 New
          0
          There are no arguments, you need to find fault with spelling laughing
          1. Jackking
            Jackking 24 November 2016 17: 07 New
            0
            This is an indicator of the level of knowledge of someone who undertakes to discuss complex technical issues. Or is it not important for management ?! :)))
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 24 November 2016 17: 18 New
              0
              This is an indicator of the level of proficiency in the Russian language. Or do you think if a person knows, for example, geography, then he immediately mastered mathematics? lol
  18. es.d
    es.d 23 November 2016 18: 05 New
    +3
    To the author - Thank you!
    But ... you are counting on the level of a reader of "Technology-Youth" (if anyone remembers, at one time there was published a program for a PC (programmable calculator) for calculating lunar landing ?. Alas!
    PS I especially liked the binding of ticket prices to real estate prices in the United States. And let them do it.
    1. opus
      24 November 2016 17: 25 New
      +1
      ATP
      Quote: es.d
      But ... you are counting on the level of a reader of "Technics-Youth" (if anyone remembers, at one time there was published a program for a PC (programmable calculator) for calculating the lunar landing ?.

      "TM" No. 8 for 1985?

      I suggested better
      I recommend to have some fun: "Air retardation and landing difficulties in a rarefied atmosphere of Mars"
      space simulator orbiter

      http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

  19. ALLxANDr
    ALLxANDr 23 November 2016 18: 46 New
    +2
    I read it !!! :) :) :)
  20. Operator
    Operator 23 November 2016 19: 53 New
    +2
    Go crazy - the author of the article was converted from a fan to a critic Ilon Mask and fraternized with Konanykhin laughing

    The project of the latter correctly takes into account promising solutions of rocket-comic equipment:
    - the use of methane-oxygen fuel for the launch vehicle;
    - the use of carbon fuel tanks.

    Everything else in the project (single-stage reusable LV, flight to Mars for 3 months) is bullshit, as always.
  21. region58
    region58 23 November 2016 20: 17 New
    0
    Yeah ... interplanetary chess tournament is a serious matter ...
  22. bk316
    bk316 23 November 2016 20: 26 New
    +4
    Dear Anton (OPUS), thanks for the article I read with pleasure.
    But don’t stomp the Mask so much, you should understand (you use an iPhone yourself) the main thing is a beautiful picture and image. And so it is clear: he will not fly anywhere and phones are better than an iPhone sea. At the same time, I personally admire Musk, because he does something, because Tesla is not playing courses or sitting on a pipe.

    And do not change to Tesla, at least until they release the SUV. I then alternately traveled by SUV and a low sedan. No joy either from the dynamics or from the passenger compartment, when all the time you have to dodge pits and around all the drivers have feet at the level of your head.
    1. opus
      24 November 2016 00: 37 New
      +1
      And thank you for reading.
      Quote: bk316
      because you use an iPhone yourself)

      Out of need, in 2014 he shopped, Schaub money was not lost. I regret Android. The battery will grunt - change
      Quote: bk316
      I then alternately traveled by SUV and a low sedan.

      Well, the stump is clear. I rushed to my daughter to drive the oil into the automatic transmission in the Beetle .. crying squeezed the crankcase.
      I need to go mushroom picking, fishing, and I don’t really like cleaning snow
  23. Odysseus
    Odysseus 23 November 2016 20: 28 New
    +2
    Musk is, literally, the reincarnation of Ostap Bender. Still in it there is a little from Chubais, who, as you know, taught more arrogance.
    We’ll fly to Mars not sometime, but before 2025, we’ll send there not 1000 people, but a million at once. A well-known psychological technique comes into effect here - the average layman simply cannot believe that a person can lie so shamelessly.
    But most importantly, it gives a result, that is, ultimately profit, Such a person is indispensable for a variety of purposes, NASA and the Pentagon also need it.
    As for the flight to Mars, flying there on chemical engines is, of course, possible, although it is difficult and risky primarily because of a landing problem. But nuclear weapons are already desirable for colonization. Well, possession of technologies for terraformation is even better, which is a thing far future.
    Otherwise, the colony will be unprofitable (which is the most important thing from the point of view of capitalism), and its mere survival (if there are already 1000 people) is extremely doubtful.
    PS Opus, as usual, is magnificent, a characteristic feature of its texts is a cute distraction from the main topic and an abundance of photo and video inserts.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 November 2016 21: 41 New
      +4
      "Musk is, literally, the reincarnation of Ostap Bender. There is also a little of Chubais in him." But Musk, unlike the characters you mentioned, created and put into series: rocket engines, a rocket, spaceships, electric cars, etc. everything is in great demand.
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 23 November 2016 22: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        and all this is in great demand

        - Many of Ostap Bender's undertakings were also in great demand at first.
        - True, not for long, because they were not ... high-tech
        - Musk learned a lesson. His products are all completely high-tech ... that is, it will last a little longer than O. Bender
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 23 November 2016 23: 46 New
          +1
          Wait and see. I personally want the Mask to work out as intended.
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 23 November 2016 23: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Vadim237
        Here are just Musk, unlike the characters you indicated, created and launched into a series: rocket engines, rocket, spaceships, electric cars, etc.

        Offend Chubais, because he himself creates such nanotechnologies with these very hands that Musk chokes with envy.
        And Bender is the author of such brilliant ideas that Musk was not even close. What is the "Union of Sword and Plowshare" - the prototype of all democratic parties in Russia. And even on the idea of ​​democracy, people in Russia raised such money that Musk is just a rogue next to them ...
        Quote: Vadim237
        and all this is in great demand.

        Did I say that Musk is a bad businessman? Not at all, he is a talented businessman. Moreover, I will repeat once again that such a person is needed by both NASA and the Pentagon.
        His company is an ideal laundry, through it you can hold such left-handed contracts that are unrealizable in state order.
        PS The proposal in the style of the Mask-it offers for only $ 200 thousand to send people to Mars and says that the first flight will be until 2025. I offer you a bet for only $ 5000, that before 2025 he will not send anyone to Mars. Ready to bet? smile
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 November 2016 09: 24 New
          0
          Most likely he will not send people to Mars in 2025, but the unmanned Dragon is quite.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 24 November 2016 14: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            Most likely he will not send people to Mars in 2025, but the unmanned Dragon is quite.

            So he is also Musk "scheduled" for 2018. What are we transferring to 2025? smile
      3. fennekRUS
        fennekRUS 24 November 2016 00: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        created

        or managed to knock out the budget in order to successfully sell what others created in their own wrapping paper? And that is only thanks to state subsidies. Is the tesla market famous? less than 50000 a year. Can you calculate the market share? http://serega.icnet.ru/CarSaleAuto_2016_World.htm
        l
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 24 November 2016 10: 50 New
          +1
          And 2 times sales growth every year laughing
      4. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 24 November 2016 12: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        Musk, unlike the characters you indicated, created and launched into the series: rocket engines,

        Musk still has one Merlin engine, there are various modifications.
    2. opus
      24 November 2016 00: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: Odyssey
      cute distractions from the main topic and an abundance of photo and video inserts.

      good
      it seems my DID (dissociative identity disorder) is progressing.
      Well, a photo / video ... it’s clear: up to 80% of a human individual absorbs information through his eyes
  24. Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 23 November 2016 22: 56 New
    0
    If God really existed, then the Yellow Stone would have long been pulled! And small Britain would go under water like Atlantis!
  25. Cananecat
    Cananecat 24 November 2016 00: 54 New
    0
    I read, thought ... I thought about the recently patented engine, whose operation is far from the operation of the rocket engine. To hell with Mask ... The SDI program was not conceived for implementation, but an engine working on other physical principles can already be built in 50 years from now. And then the exploration of Mars will become as real a task as virgin land for the Union once became.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 November 2016 09: 25 New
      0
      If you invest now, you can create a gas-phase NRE in 10 years.
      1. KaPToC
        KaPToC 24 November 2016 15: 21 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        If you invest now, you can create a gas-phase NRE in 10 years.

        Russia has already invested, creation in process
  26. zoolu300
    zoolu300 24 November 2016 06: 25 New
    0
    Bullshit is everything. The maximum that systems based on chemical rocket engines are capable of is a single flag-stick on Mars. For the full development of the solar system, detonation rocket engines on take-off stages and gas-phase nuclear rocket engines on the booster block are required.
  27. Jackking
    Jackking 24 November 2016 11: 58 New
    0
    The main thing is to take more Tesla cars to Mars - there will be something to show off in front of the Martians :)))
  28. demiurg
    demiurg 24 November 2016 14: 57 New
    +2
    Well, a man sold his house, bought a one-way ticket. Got 100 of these, sent them to Mars.
    People, have you ever received a certificate from the traffic police or stood in line at a small store? Now imagine that this whole queue of different kinds will be with you in a comparable volume for 80 days. Oh yes, then they will be there until their death. Okay, they’ll grow potatoes. What will they warm at home? What will be worn from clothes? Who will be in the role of meat? By the way, fans of colonization, have you built at least one house on Earth alone? At least a toilet in the country, but alone. And where on Mars to take building materials, plastic, glass, fertilizers? Even the simplest, energy will become a terrible problem. This is in a finished house, and free lighting can live without the cost of energy in the country. But only in the summer, which is typical.
    The average annual is 50-70. Taking into account greenhouses / or underground greenhouses, a kilowatt of 20-40 will be needed per person (remember this figure)

    Well, I also thought 200000 dollars minus the profit. Mask okay, he's kind, 10%. 190000 left. And who will insure launches? This is another 10-15 percent. 180000. It seems that not much has been lost. STOOOP !!!!! And who will pay for the mini reactor? Even if the reactor produces 10000 kilowatts of electricity, there is no sense in counting heat, there is nothing to divert it (water is in short supply) (remember 40kW for a helmet, it is enough for 250 people), then with every second or third ship another reactor should fly. But they still did not consider the need for energy for metal smelting, hydrocarbon production, and other needs. Who will pay the cost of materials that the colonists are required to bring with them? A shovel, a pickaxe, clothes for the first time, a minimum of food, a suit, by the way, too, and other little things? This is for every passenger at least a ton or two of cargo.
    Scam. Planned. Not PR, but a scam. And very cynical.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 November 2016 21: 10 New
      0
      People will be sent to Mars only when everything is ready there for a comfortable stay, and while the flights there will be carried out by unmanned trucks, which, in the course of the flight, will practice the technology of takeoff, flight, landing and everything else.
  29. demiurg
    demiurg 24 November 2016 15: 04 New
    0
    That is, on a rocket with a tonnage of 450 tons on Mars, if they want to live there, 10 people can fly (reactor, food before the first harvest, NZ, building materials, and all sorts of little things. Then everything is quite real. There is a set of resources and energy for the first time. Only the price has jumped.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 24 November 2016 16: 39 New
      0
      And how did you calculate the money? wink
      1. demiurg
        demiurg 24 November 2016 19: 05 New
        0
        Quote: BlackMokona
        And how did you calculate the money? wink

        Refute me, I will be grateful. In general, I really like to learn new things.
        1. What is the capacity of the reactor weighing 70 tons.
        2. How many people have enough of his energy.
        3. For whose account this reactor will be delivered to Mars.
        4. How much food does the settler need before the first harvest. Plus food, clothes and other shovels. hi
        For some reason I think that for every settler 20-30 tons will be needed. After all, even buttons there can not produce immediately. But the main question is energy.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 November 2016 21: 12 New
          0
          "1. What is the power of the reactor weighing 70 tons." And who told you that the reactor for a flight to Mars will weigh 70 tons?
          1. demiurg
            demiurg 25 November 2016 03: 10 New
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            "1. What is the power of the reactor weighing 70 tons." And who told you that the reactor for a flight to Mars will weigh 70 tons?

            You have already been answered to this))
            Paragraphs 2.3.4? lol
            How much water and food, and a little oxygen does a migrant need before the first harvest?
            Where will this crop be grown?
            What to do with vitamins (nutritional diversity)? Scurvy however happens.
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 25 November 2016 03: 52 New
              0
              There is water there, carbon dioxide and nitrogen for rural households there
              there is no protective magnetic field, so you will have to sit in a "bomb shelter" almost all the time, and everyone will very quickly die from too low gravity, long before the first "harvest" of humans.
              But this Musk certainly did not tell you anything about this ....
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 November 2016 21: 26 New
          0
          "American engineers announced a 333 kilowatt, piano-sized nuclear reactor, capable of operating on Mars and capable of providing a medium-sized base with energy and heat for 15 years."
          1. opus
            25 November 2016 02: 11 New
            +2
            Quote: Vadim237
            "American engineers announced the creation of a nuclear reactor with a capacity of 333

            Akansa Kumar (Akansha Kumar) with colleagues from the Idaho National Laboratory (INL) in Idaho Falls (USA)?
            Do you yourself believe in this?
            Q 2011 scientists from this lab talked about the creation of a kind of "nuclear suitcase", a compact reactor with a capacity of 40 kilowatts, whose length is only 30 centimeters and a width of about 15 centimeters.
            no one saw him ...
            THEY WRITE NOT about the reactor, but about the core.
            +
            An unusual material for the Earth is used as a coolant - supercooled carbon dioxide, which can be directly extracted from the atmosphere of Mars, consisting of 99% of this substance.
            1. Get
            2.Cool (supercool)
            3.Remove heat, energy
            4.Cool again
            + engine room (turbine)

            + generator

            + current converters
            + security system
            fool
            You yourself will strain. Imagine a 333 kW turbine or generator? Piano?

            --------------
            And so I'm on salt 251Cf and in 10 g will fit

            The peak of 20 years of research and development efforts to create space power plants based on nuclear reactors in the USSR was the Plasma-A satellite depleted in 1988. These installations were based on the technology of thermionic energy conversion, which was debugged on the ground (more than 80 test assemblies were carried out in reactors from 100 to 16000 hours).
            efficiency low trouble
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 25 November 2016 09: 22 New
              0
              There is also a "way out" - a fuel cell generator, and so all that you have listed will fit into a separate module that can launch an SLS rocket into orbit and dock it to a Martian spacecraft or deliver it to Mars, by unmanned spacecraft in parts, technically no problem will be - only a carrier with a carrying capacity of 50 tons or more is needed.
              1. opus
                25 November 2016 12: 57 New
                +1
                Quote: Vadim237
                There is also a way out - a fuel cell generator,

                Repetition

                Quote: opus
                You do not confuse RTG?


                Several kilograms of 238PuO2 were used on some Apollo missions to power ALSEP instruments. The SNAP-27 (Systems for Nuclear Auxiliary Power) power generator, whose thermal and electric power was 1480 W and 63,5 W, respectively, contained 3,735 kg of plutonium-238 dioxide.
                efficiency is only low

                And about
                Quote: Vadim237
                the creation of a nuclear reactor with a capacity of 333 kilowatts and the size of a piano

                1. The thermal power of 1,6 MW
                The new reactor, according to scientists, will generate about 1,6 megawatts of thermal energy, about 20% of which will be converted into electricity, and the rest will be released into the surrounding space.

                critical mass for the LOPO U235 reactor is about 50 kg
                As nuclear fuel, a special alloy of low enriched uranium and ceramics is used, containing 15% of uranium-235, specially packed in a special shell made of zirconium carbide and tungsten.


                1 t of LEU U235 ˜ 20-30 GW · day / t - reactors based on slightly enriched uranium (2-3% 235U);
                those. "American" 1,6 MW is (20-30) GW / day divided by 12500-18750 (let on average by 15000)
                T.O. critical mass for your Martian Reactor (LOPO)
                50 kg: 15000 = 0,0033 (3) kg!
                THREE GRAMS U235 !!!
                understand nonsense?
                And they will not help
                special "mattresses" made of uranium dioxide-238.

                Even 251Cf salts (California) will not help
                2. Electrical power 333KW?
                TP cabinet

                "Elkom - Monolith" BKTP (BKRP) for 400 kW (for Earth conditions: Altitude, m up to 1000
                Ambient temperature, оС from -45 to +40)
                Overall dimensions of a single-transformer substation (length x width x height), m 4,980 x 2,450 x 2,750

                Weight of one BKTP (BKRTP) block (without power transformer) no more, t 8 (for the standard unit)
                EIGHT tons !!!
                3. Still need a 500kW generator (up to a ton)
                4. Another turbine for 500-700 kW is needed (this is + 3-5 tons)
                5. Still need equipment for liquefying CO2 (the Americans have cooling on it), this is another 20-30 tons
                6. You also need a "refrigerator": superheated CO2, cool, condense, condense and start up again, I don't even know how many TENS tons it is
                7. Foundation: 30 tons, otherwise amba to everything
                8. Radiation protection of 10 tons, or (if you decide to crap on Mars) then a self-supporting insulated wire of 100 km in length (otherwise an amba to the settlement)


                Quote: Vadim237
                only a carrier with a carrying capacity of 50 tons or more is needed.

                Come on.
                Why For the delivery of the reactor to the Earth’s DOE, probably.
                And how to deliver to Mars?
                The corresponding fuel consumption will be 4–5 times higher than the net mass of the ship ~ 350 tons. This gives an estimate of its starting mass in low Earth orbit of more than 2 tons.

                Those. for the delivery of 50 tons (reactor) to Mars, another 290 tons of fuel are needed.
                Thus
                Quote: Vadim237
                which will be able to put into orbit the SLS rocket

                it will take 15-20 flights on the LEO SLS
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 25 November 2016 21: 39 New
                  0
                  Weight of one BKTP (BKRTP) block (without power transformer) no more, t 8 (for a standard block)
                  EIGHT tons !!!
                  3. Still need a 500kW generator (up to a ton)
                  4. Another turbine for 500-700 kW is needed (this is + 3-5 tons)
                  5. Still need equipment for liquefying CO2 (the Americans have cooling on it), this is another 20-30 tons
                  6. You also need a "refrigerator": superheated CO2, cool, condense, condense and start up again, I don't even know how many TENS tons it is
                  7. Foundation: 30 tons, otherwise amba to everything
                  8. Radiation protection of 10 tons, or (if you decide to crap on Mars) then a 100 km long self-supporting insulated wire (otherwise an amba to a settlement) - A foundation of 30 tons is not needed, just dig a hole, put a small base there to install the reactor and close it with a lid or tent from lead. A separate building will be assembled for all other equipment, but before all this is sent there, a Martian crane with a lifting capacity of 20 tons will fly to Mars and yes the SLS rocket can do all this and more, it can send to Mars in 15 - 20 launches - from 70 to 130 tons per each - in two stages, the payload, plus a separate booster stage, a new 54-ton Mask rocket will join this entire transport - now it’s technically possible to deliver it to Mars - it’s only a matter of money.
  30. demiurg
    demiurg 24 November 2016 19: 18 New
    0
    No one will supply the newly arrived settlers for nothing. Even air will not give for nothing. There were no historical precedents. That is, virtually every shuttle should deliver an autonomous commune.
  31. demiurg
    demiurg 24 November 2016 19: 35 New
    0
    The more I think about this project, the more questions. And what will 70 tons be unloaded from the shuttle? How many tons of pipes will be needed for cooling, the water with it will be local. What will happen to the settlement in case of any reactor accident. Not even during an accident, during routine maintenance. Does 70 tons include a steam turbine and generator, plus a substation, cable and wiring to the end user? By the way, for the first time, water or any other coolant will have to be taken with you.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 24 November 2016 20: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: demiurg
      The more I think about this project, the more questions.

      Calm down, you yourself rightly wrote above that this is a scam. Like Ostap organizes an interplanetary chess congress.
      And you began to seriously discuss it, ask a bunch of questions. And how does Ostap plan to resolve the issue with the hotels, and is Lasker invited ?, etc.
      In reality, the creation of a colony on Mars is beyond the current technical capabilities of mankind, and is also unprofitable (that is, only the PRC can potentially do this).
      Even a solo flight on a chemical rocket to Mars is already a semi-fantastic achievement, although it is practically feasible.
  32. Awaz
    Awaz 25 November 2016 09: 17 New
    +1
    Of course, I am a stranger to this topic, but my vast experience in dealing with hucksters says that this is an adventure to cut dough. In general, technically, if the project is cut short, and using some new technical achievements that are not yet available, then perhaps it will be possible to implement it once in 50 years, if the circumstances are successful and the knowledge of all the most powerful minds of the world and technologies of all land. Perhaps not even after 50 but after 40 years))) But in the near future - nothing will come of Mask alone. Well, you can be lucky with a fool, but once. We all know the successes of the American space program. Constant wandering from one extreme to another, constant deadlock projects and even worse - doubtful moments that cause a lot of controversy as well as doubt that the projects really exist or existed. At the moment, this Mask demonstrates to the world only PiAr and some more improved old abandoned projects from both the USA and the USSR. New in this is only 3,14 mastery ...
  33. models
    models 7 June 2017 18: 23 New
    +1
    The article is blatantly illiterate.

    1. Towers. What do you want to say? In practice, SCs are very different in spite of the same laws of physics. So Falcon (unmanned) does not have any tower - there are TUA. But the Angara and the tower and TUA. ITS TUA does not - the first stage does not leave the start (how is it delivered for the first time? For example, by a vertical conveyor like Saturn) and the second is put on it by a crane. And for refueling the second stage, you must either do the highway from the bottom on the Proton and Zenith, or fence a separate refueling tower, or refuel through the tower for passenger boarding. Knowing SpaceX can be put on the first or third option. And now control is generally easier to do through "Wi-Fi" - anyway, transfer TMI in flight.

    2 "The Soviet superheavy class H1 booster mysteriously smiles from nonexistence (from a beautiful past), muttering quietly," Well, let’s see, we’ll laugh. "

    Laughter for no reason - a sign of what is known. N-1 fell due to the fact that the NK-15, and especially the assembly stage, could not be burned before launch. And once because of the jambs in the design of the SU. The first one is not in danger of a reusable Raptor, but perhaps they are ahead of the rest in SpaceX in front of the entire planet - so far they have only succeeded in landing steps on barges.

    3. "Handsome? What do I see? Or rather, I don’t see! I don’t see any signs of the salvation system."

    Now let the author try to find the CAC on Dragon-2. She is there.

    4. "- to extinguish a linear speed of 6 m / s, and then return the container (with such a midsection and such a mass) to the starting point from a height of 000-70 km?"

    You either blatantly don’t know the materiel, or you knowingly lie. The separation of steps at ITS will not occur at all at 6 km / s, but in the 2x region - as now at Falcon-9. Actually, the F-9 stage at the spaceport is successfully returning - Musk claims that at the cost of only -15% of cargo, compared with the barge.

    5. "So, all the time the flight to Mars, the fuel components will be stored in the tanks for landing! In a large space, in the zone of action of our star" by the name of the Sun "this is a big problem."

    ULA is going to store as much hydrogen as ACES and Fuel Depot. Block D with liquid oxygen was supposed to survive to the moon. For long-term storage of the cryogen in space, only good thermal insulation is needed - the fuel itself does not produce heat.

    6. "The cistern is tiny, the insulation thickness is significant. And if not the cistern, but the cistern? Do you need comments?"

    The author does not know the cube-square rule. Comments are redundant.

    7. "Alas, the manager-designers again defeated the engineers. No turning units of the solar panels are observed. There is no solar orientation system for the sun as a class."

    I wonder what kind of manager-designers did “Soyuz”, “Juno” and many other spacecraft with fixed SBs? Maybe the author instead of tanks is better to read about space?

    8. "Heat protection of the Shuttle / Buran, you know how much weighed?"

    Already 10% of the Shuttle's dry weight, despite the fact that there were stupid wings and the PICA-X was lighter than ceramics. What's next?

    9. "Why now do planetary stations fly to Mars for six months, instead of 115 days on average?"

    Because they are displayed with a single-launch single-use rocket. At ITS, refueling of the second stage of a reusable carrier with a 7 km / s CS is used. Stuffing fuel into it to fly away along Goman is stupid - from the start of acceleration it will drag empty tanks. And if you completely fill with fuel, then just enough for a fast trajectory because the engine is 7 km / s.

    10. "And now the question is: how will a quick and expensive flight be combined with an affordable ticket to Mars (100 pieces of Baku per head)?"

    If you look at the same presentation, you can see the answer - due to the complete reusability of the system and the high multiplicity of use of the first stage with a tanker.

    11. "On the other hand, it (the atmosphere) is not enough for a complete change (braking) of the characteristic speed (delta-V) kilometers per second by 6 minimum and for the full operation of the wings and other aerodynamic surfaces."

    Martian probes did not know this and sat down precisely at aerobraking. Parachutes and engines there extinguish a few hundred m / s delta.



    12. "If this were with us - I would cry out for the victims of the exam."

    As a person who passed the same exam, I’m lost in guessing the victim of which is the author of this "study".