Military Review

"Almost 50 million people" - such are the losses of the USSR in World War II

324
The direct and indirect losses of the USSR in the Second World War amounted to about 50 million people, Interfax Statement by the Vice-President of the International Association of Prosecutors (IAP), Alexander Zvyagintsev (previously - Deputy Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation).


"Almost 50 million people" - such are the losses of the USSR in World War II


“The total losses of the Soviet Union are almost 50 million people. These are direct and indirect casualties of our country in the Great Patriotic War — both dead and later from injuries sustained, ” - said Zvyagintsev at a conference dedicated to the 70 anniversary of the military tribunal in Nuremberg.

The indirect (demographic) losses also include the unborn children of the dead Soviet citizens.

“The mentioned losses are comparable to the population of a number of European countries - from Scandinavia to the Baltic States. This is the price paid by our people for the victory over fascism, ”he noted.

That is why “the lessons of the Nuremberg process should never be forgotten - otherwise we are confronted with a concept that is called“ stolen victory ”,” said Zvyagintsev.

As an example, he mentioned the results of a recent survey conducted in the EU: only 12% of respondents “named the USSR the winner of fascism in Europe”.

“This is a stolen victory,” stated the Vice-President of the IAO, who is the author of numerous books and films about the Nuremberg Trials.
Photos used:
Kommersant / Peter Cassin
324 comments
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  1. OLD FART
    OLD FART 20 November 2016 10: 55
    +23
    We all know without you ...! We don’t get on our knees anyway ..
    1. katalonec2014
      katalonec2014 20 November 2016 11: 02
      +32
      Quote: STARPER
      We don’t get on our knees anyway ..

      This is true, this is ours.
      The attempts of the West to misinterpret the merits of the USSR in the victory over Germany causes indignation, it infuriates when you hear that in the museum of Dresden, they openly "rub in" that the city was bombed by Russians.
      Hi Vital.
    2. vovanpain
      vovanpain 20 November 2016 11: 27
      +68
      the lessons of the Nuremberg trials should never be forgotten - otherwise we are faced with a concept called "stolen victory" "

      They already forget it and rewrite history as they want, but we remember- Who is the real winner and who suffered the most terrible losses in that war. A low bow to our grandfathers and grandmothers, who endured this war on their shoulders at the front and working in the rear.
      1. hrych
        hrych 20 November 2016 11: 47
        +45
        The film is good, but the reality is exactly the opposite

        1. Shadow of darkness
          Shadow of darkness 20 November 2016 14: 09
          +21
          Part of the Crimean Tatars fought shoulder to shoulder with other peoples in the Red Army and were even awarded the Star of a hero. The family has its black sheep, one does not have to ascribe this to everyone.
          1. hrych
            hrych 20 November 2016 19: 05
            +18
            Quote: Shadow of the Dark
            fought shoulder to shoulder with other nations

            Upon closer examination, all small nations in their mentality turn out to be perfect Nazis, which is manifested both at the everyday level and, naturally, in extreme situations. Therefore, Stalin began to fawn and raise toasts not for the lousy friendship of peoples, but for a specific ethnic group. Moreover, he was still wondering why this ethnos nevertheless began to fight for the hated Bolshevik power. The last nail in the notorious friendship of peoples was hammered by our so-called closest brothers, just recently selflessly going to slaughter Russian people, and again, the lesson is not for you ...

            The Ukrainian girl has already recited to you poetry, but in Russian, it declared that they were not brothers not from their homeland, not from their mother ... no, you don’t understand, but you won’t even understand.
            1. Shadow of darkness
              Shadow of darkness 20 November 2016 20: 27
              +3
              It is necessary to respect any people, and not to curry favor. My classmate from the Crimean Tatars did not return from the army after the accident on the submarine. And there are plenty of scumbags everywhere, including Russians here, too, covering up their dark affairs with the struggle for the national rights of Russians, while registering in the National Bats in Ukraine.
              1. Mahmut
                Mahmut 21 November 2016 05: 33
                +2
                This is the price that our people paid for the victory over fascism, ”he said.

                Alas, this is the price not for the victory over fascism, but only for the destruction of the most powerful group of carriers of fascist ideology. Text on the medal "For the victory over Nazi Germany". But not for the victory over fascism.
            2. antivirus
              antivirus 21 November 2016 08: 43
              +1
              we'll never be brothers / lace panties don't look like a singed Red Banner
          2. kit-kat
            kit-kat 20 November 2016 23: 05
            +2
            what is the ratio? who in this case is wrod: heroes or those who fought against the USSR?
          3. Bloodsucker
            Bloodsucker 20 November 2016 23: 46
            +6
            Quote: Shadow of the Dark
            Part of the Crimean Tatars fought shoulder to shoulder with other peoples in the Red Army and were even awarded the Hero Star

            Unfortunately, a very small part even of the Hero of the USSR, the illustrious pilot, the brothers served .. among the Nazis, in all, the Crimean Tatars put up 10% of their population on the sides of the Germans, and this is the maximum mobilization capacity for them. So this part of the story worth remembering.
        2. Homo
          Homo 20 November 2016 14: 30
          +8
          Quote: hrych
          The film is good, but the reality is exactly the opposite

          Do not smack nonsense! Every family has its black sheep. And in your opinion, all the Crimean Tatars fought on the side of the Nazis.
          1. cast iron
            cast iron 20 November 2016 17: 50
            +10
            Not all but most. That is why they were all deported.
          2. hrych
            hrych 20 November 2016 17: 59
            +13
            Quote: Homo
            Do not smack nonsense! Every family has its black sheep.

            Unfortunately, the Russians believed in rubbish about equality and fraternity, which was the fault of these propaganda films, which resulted in the Russian massacre in the SA, Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and now in Ukraine. Therefore, your international snot is nothing compared with those screaming for vengeance from tombs torn by tens if not hundreds of thousands of bodies of Russian women and children. Vengeance is inevitable and inevitable even for many brains (I'm talking about Russians) are still struck by the international mold that has already cost our ethnic group so dearly. Including the compassionate and snotty flaw in our ancestors, even the great warriors, with the enemies not being finished off, and led to the revival of Bandera, Basmachism, Abreche and other abominations. But it was business to do when the enemy was defeated ...
      2. gladcu2
        gladcu2 20 November 2016 14: 43
        +20
        vovanpain

        A good phrase: "We then understand who won the war."

        Counterquestion:

        Who are "we?

        45 year old men who understand the processes taking place in the world. So we will not understand for long, a couple of decades. But YOUR youth, through the efforts of Fursenko-Livanov, the Soviet T-34 tank, calls RUSSIAN. Eeee, if it goes like this, then your youth, having erased her memory, will be put on her knees easily and slightly deployed ...

        The process of changing history is happening everywhere in the world, not only in the territory of the countries of the former USSR. ALL countries in the world are resisting. With the change of history, there is a slavish perception of reality. This is necessary to save the situation when the enrichment of units with the total impoverishment of the majority is morally justified. Power and money are investing their money in the destruction of education. System education.

        ALL countries in the world are resisting. You look on YouTube how Americans are fighting for their sovereignty. The boldness of their protest statements is highly respected.

        It remains to wish: "Keep an eye on your education minister. Fursenko-Livanov should not appear anymore."
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 20 November 2016 14: 49
          +15
          Yes, children are hard on their brains. And the entire system of "education" in Russia for a quarter of a century has been aimed at raising an obedient and poorly educated herd of consumers.
        2. vovanpain
          vovanpain 20 November 2016 16: 39
          +13
          Quote: gladcu2
          But YOUR youth, through the efforts of Fursenko-Livanov, the Soviet T-34 tank, calls RUSSIAN.

          A colleague, now in Russia it’s not like Livanov, the Minister of Education, Oh. Vasilieva. hi But hope for Vasilyeva, but don’t be fooled by yourself, yes I have not only children, but already grandchildren know about their great-grandfathers and what they did.
          Quote: gladcu2
          This is necessary to save the situation when the enrichment of units with the total impoverishment of the majority is morally justified. Power and money are investing their money in the destruction of education. System education.

          I agree with a colleague. hi At one time, we won Americans in outer space at a school desk, like D. Kennedy said. But it also depends a lot on us, because how you raise your children, you will live in old age. With respect, Colleague. hi
        3. KaPToC
          KaPToC 20 November 2016 19: 12
          +5
          In the forty-first, the t-34 was a Russian tank, and now it suddenly became Soviet? Or the Soviet cannot be Russian, and Russian - Soviet?
          What a disgusting two-faced deception, however what else to expect from the Canadian Ukrainian.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 20 November 2016 19: 18
            +3
            Quote: KaPToC
            In the forty-first t-34 was a Russian tank

            - for the Germans - yes. Since the Germans fought the "collective Russians"
            - these "Russians" included all nationalities of the USSR
            - from the point of view of the Soviet people - it was still a Soviet tank
            - The Sovinformburo, for example, has never called "our" troops "Russians". And the tanks were not named either. request

            So here it is:

            Quote: KaPToC
            ... a disgusting two-faced deception, however what else to expect from the Canadian Ukrainian

            - it’s you clearly ... grabbed the excess and gave Mach stop
            1. Operator
              Operator 20 November 2016 20: 45
              +8
              Where did you see anything Soviet in T-34: did the Uzbeks create his cannon, and the Kazakhs create his engine, maybe the Georgians assembled a walkie-talkie, or the Armenians built shells, Kyrgyz made a machine gun?

              T-34 is a Russian tank, just like Kharkov, a Russian city.
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 20 November 2016 20: 55
                +4
                Quote: Operator
                T-34 is a Russian tank, just like Kharkov, a Russian city

                - the creators of the T-34 did not think so. Since then there was a "historical community - Soviet people". Which was not divided by nationality, from the word" absolutely ".
                - you, for infancy, you may not remember. I, as an example, remember it well yes
                - and everything else I painted there already, read accusative...
                1. Operator
                  Operator 20 November 2016 21: 54
                  0
                  You are not the creator of the T-34.

                  And you cannot imagine the entire "Soviet people", who in all personal documents were divided according to the column "nationality".

                  Well, there is no need to shake on the rampage against reality - what is the meaning of the column "nationality" was the creators of the T-34.
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 20 November 2016 21: 59
                    +3
                    Quote: Operator
                    You are not the creator of the T-34

                    - like you, however ... right?

                    Quote: Operator
                    And you can't imagine the entire "Soviet people" (who, by the way, in all personal documents shared the column "nationality"

                    - unlike some ... um ... debaters, I lived under the USSR for almost thirty years. And as a thread I know a little what was there and how it was.
                    - the people "shared" only in the passport
                    - according to the state ideology then in force, Soviet people were united. Point.

                    Quote: Operator
                    Well, do not shove against the rampage against reality

                    - go to the mirror and repeat this phrase.
                    - if it doesn’t help right away - repeat until it finally reaches

                    Quote: Operator
                    what is the meaning of the "nationality" column for the creators of the T-34

                    - Neither I nor you know this, right, no?
                    - but the people whose representatives created the T-34 were and were called the Soviet people. And the tank was a Soviet tank. And no other way yes
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 20 November 2016 22: 18
                      +3
                      Apparently, you "know" that Mikhail Ilyich Koshkin was an Uzbek, and Alexander Alexandrovich Morozov was a Turkmen.

                      And as P. P. Vasiliev, V. G. Matyukhin, M. I. Tarshinov, N. A. Kucherenko, A. A. Moloshtanov, Yu. S. Mironov, N. S. Korotchenko, M. I. Kotov, A. V. Zabaikin, B. A. Chernyak, A. Ya. Mitnik, V. Ya. Kurasov, A. S. Bondarenko, V. K. Baydakov and G. P. Fomenko certainly belonged to the Soviet nationality itself - Jews laughing

                      The T-34 tank was a Soviet tank, since it was in service with the USSR Red Army, but the T-34 will always be a Russian tank, since it was designed by Russians and made by Russians.
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 20 November 2016 22: 22
                        +4
                        Quote: Operator
                        The T-34 tank was a Soviet tank, since it was in service with the USSR Red Army ...

                        - oh ... glimpses ...

                        Quote: Operator
                        ... but the T-34 will always be a Russian tank, as it was designed by Russians and made by Russians

                        - listen, recover two bast shoes already with your research ...
                        - they correctly answered you: if the T-34 is a Russian tank, then the MIG is an Armenian plane.
                        - eat on health, do not slap yourself laughing
              2. AID.S
                AID.S 20 November 2016 22: 10
                +5
                Quote: Operator
                T-34 is a Russian tank, just like Kharkov, a Russian city.

                And Mig is an Armenian plane ...
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 20 November 2016 22: 17
                  0
                  Quote: AID.S
                  Quote: Operator
                  T-34 is a Russian tank, just like Kharkov, a Russian city.

                  And Mig is an Armenian plane ...

                  good
            2. KaPToC
              KaPToC 20 November 2016 21: 40
              +2
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              - these "Russians" included all nationalities of the USSR

              Yeah, the tiger is not a German tank, there are many nationalities, Toyota is not a Japanese car - there are also many nationalities, but Abrams is not an American tank - because there is no such nation - the Americans. And the T-34 is a Russian tank - because it was created in the Russian state! Something the Ukrainians are in no hurry to create tanks "without Russians"?
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              - it’s you clearly ... grabbed the excess and gave Mach

              Where is the "extra"? Forgery, deception - in itself is unpleasant, but in this case it is used as propaganda against our state and the state-forming nation, let the FSB inquire what kind of person is hiding under the nickname gladsu2
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 20 November 2016 21: 48
                +2
                Do you know how to read?

                Quote: KaPToC
                T-34 Russian tank - because it was created in the Russian state!

                - The state at that time was Soviet. Soviet Union. In which the Soviet people lived. Dot.
                - I dare to assure you that all the developers and "manufacturers" of the T-34, from the General Designer to the last laborer at the plant, thought this way.
                - if you consider yourself the ultimate truth in relation to them - then your will, they can no longer object to you.
                - but the logic still needs to be included sometimes. Soviet state. Soviet people. They created a Soviet tank. Point again.

                Quote: KaPToC
                Forgery, deception - in itself is unpleasant, but in this case it is used as propaganda against our state and the state-forming nation

                - no matter how much I looked, I saw no forgery, no deception, no "propaganda against" request
                - turn off "posreota", turn on the logic already ... and you will be happy yes
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 20 November 2016 22: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  - The state at that time was Soviet. Soviet Union. In which the Soviet people lived. Dot.

                  You claim that they were not Russian?
                  Well, like until 1917 they were Russian, then Soviet, but not Russian, then in 1991, bang - again Russian? It seems to me that causality is broken.
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 20 November 2016 22: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: KaPToC
                    You claim that they were not Russian?

                    - I claim that neither you nor I know how many Russians, Tatars, Ukrainians, Belarusians were in the creators-producers of the T-34 ... "and various other Swedes" (c) Mayakovsky laughing

                    Quote: KaPToC
                    I think you have broken cause and effect relationships

                    - get baptized when it seems
                    - I do not think so request
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 20 November 2016 22: 53
                      +2
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      - I claim that neither you nor I know how many Russians, Tatars, Ukrainians, Belarusians were in the creators-producers of the T-34 ... "and various other Swedes" (c) Mayakovsky

                      But we also do not know how many of them were Soviet communists, and how many were secret enemies of the "regime"? Is the T-34 tank coming out and not Soviet at all?
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 20 November 2016 23: 00
                        +2
                        Cat Man Null is covered in matzah from head to toe - he has no time to figure out how many Tatars were in the design bureau and production workshops of Kharkov plant No. 183 in 1937-40.
                      2. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 20 November 2016 23: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        But we also do not know how many of them were Soviet communists, and how many were secret enemies of the "regime"?

                        - You yourself are not funny yet? I'm already yes good

                        Quote: KaPToC
                        It turns out the T-34 tank and not Soviet at all

                        - Soviet, Soviet ... and do not even hesitate yes
      3. Ivan Ivanov
        Ivan Ivanov 20 November 2016 22: 56
        +3
        Quote: vovanpain
        Already forget in full and rewrite history
        The Amsterites, who have a long history, say that at one battle for Stalingrad they would have raised 6 generations. And our generations often do not know who A. Matrosov is.
    3. gispanec
      gispanec 20 November 2016 11: 47
      +17
      Quote: STARPER
      We all know without you ...! We will not kneel anyway.

      mihan .... maybe stop tupizm post ... pluses do you need ??? .... write an article about condoms we will put a dip on you .... but do not post crap
    4. NordUral
      NordUral 20 November 2016 14: 46
      +6
      We won't get up, that's for sure. But the power "our" will not betray us at the moment "X"?
    5. ihnovich990
      ihnovich990 20 November 2016 15: 49
      +3
      Quote: STARPER
      We all know without you ...! We don’t get on our knees anyway ..

      Fighter Starper report finished.
    6. Su24
      Su24 20 November 2016 18: 09
      +2
      The total losses of the Soviet Union are almost 50 million people.


      Yeah, 150 million. Who is more? Enough to speculate on the topic of losses from the war and exaggerate them at times.
    7. Skif83
      Skif83 21 November 2016 20: 47
      0
      Probably not everyone knows. Where do these numbers come from? Somehow, the census figures are not very compatible. 1939 - 170,6 million people; 1958 208,8 million Even taking into account Western Ukraine, the Baltic states, etc. somehow I can’t believe it. Today's bookkeepers cannot be trusted for nothing.
  2. jjj
    jjj 20 November 2016 10: 56
    +14
    Someone overseas and on foggy Albion should be billed as instigators
  3. Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 20 November 2016 10: 58
    +22
    The lessons of the Nuremberg trials have already been forgotten by many countries and scattered in the wind, to see it seemed to them that this war claimed few lives and they forgot who the true winner of fascism was.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 20 November 2016 11: 04
      +38
      Quote: Spartanez300
      to see it seemed to them that this war claimed few lives and they forgot who the true winner of fascism

      Uh no! They remember very well, that's why they hate Russia, they carefully cultivate fascists wherever the filthy little hands reach.
      1. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 20 November 2016 12: 54
        +7
        Fear and envy always give rise to meanness. And the staff in this case is the clearest example.
        1. gladcu2
          gladcu2 20 November 2016 14: 55
          +2
          Reserve officer

          What cling to these staff?

          By the number of educational videos on YouTube made by US citizens, they exceed 10-20 times Russian-speaking resources.

          In these videos, there is a hard truth about the assessment of events.

          Look at things objectively. Stop kicking the USA.
          1. Operator
            Operator 20 November 2016 20: 50
            0
            gladcu2: "Look at things objectively. [Relax as I do and have fun]" bully
      2. gladcu2
        gladcu2 20 November 2016 14: 50
        +4
        Egoza

        You are repeating commonplace facts about being silent or changing stories. This is clear even to the 20 year old jerk

        Go from the level of thinking with facts to the level of thinking with PRINCIPLES.

        Therefore, as knowing the principles, the facts will not deceive you.

        Try to understand and realize what I just said.
        1. Kolya
          Kolya 20 November 2016 19: 22
          0
          Quote: gladcu2
          Try to understand and realize what I just said.

          The facts lie on the surface and everyone can see them. Most people operate with facts, not realizing the principles inherent in the processes that lead to these consequences (facts). As a result, people understand what is "bad" and speak out about it but do not understand what needs to be done so that it does not go bad. Goes to the fact that the winners in the war, and that is, those who are "bad" now, will soon die out. The fact that we are confident in that historical victory of our ancestors is not a condition for the survival of our descendants. Egoza said that it was unfair and everyone supported her in chorus. Only history does not care about it. The story will be one that will suit the rulers of the world of the future.
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 20 November 2016 11: 08
      +7
      The lessons of the Nuremberg trials have already been forgotten by many countries and scattered in the wind, to see it seemed to them that this war claimed few lives and they forgot who the true winner of fascism


      The second Nuremberg trial may not take place in view of the absence of participants in this action ... the political elite of the West has lost fear or reality ... that makes no difference ...

      1. mr.redpartizan
        mr.redpartizan 20 November 2016 11: 12
        +11
        Everything will be that way. BB will bring light and warmth to every European home.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 20 November 2016 11: 16
          +9
          Quote: mr.redpartizan
          Everything will be that way. BB will bring light and warmth to every European home.

          They chose their own path.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 20 November 2016 11: 33
          +4
          Well, BB will not bring light and heat to every home - but the environment will be badly polluted.
          1. mr.redpartizan
            mr.redpartizan 20 November 2016 11: 38
            +2
            They will make a joke if they get through nuclear power plants or explode on the surface, and not above the target.
        3. Operator
          Operator 20 November 2016 20: 53
          0
          And also in every Canadian, American, Japanese and South Korean.
  4. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 20 November 2016 11: 22
    +16
    "The lessons of the Nuremberg trials should never be forgotten - otherwise we are faced with a concept called" stolen victory "
    The lessons of history are quickly forgotten, or rather they don’t teach anything. The international situation is aggravating. And Russia can stop another aggression only by the presence of powerful military-political instruments. Our formidable nuclear potential keeps the US and China at a distance of a lethal shot, and a strong ground grouping of troops will allow to extinguish possible military Conflicts with our nuclear-free neighbors. It’s another matter that the confrontation is taking place both in the economy and in the struggle for the minds of elites and ordinary people. Terrorism allows us to achieve goals without revealing our faces. But in the army and navy, it’s all right, Russia cannot survive without them, since exhortations and a kind word do not work here. The confrontation with the West began immediately after May 9. Another Victory orders and crosses of Victoria did not have time to give each other, but were already looking at each other on the Elbe River through the crosshairs of sights. Contacts at the level of soldiers are not in account (soldiers are soldiers). But the western part of the anti-Hitler coalition automatically passed into the category of a probable enemy.
  5. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 20 November 2016 11: 22
    +29
    This bastard Zvyagintsev. Now all the liberal "historians" in place and out of place will shout that Stalin killed 50 million people. And many ignorant people will believe this nonsense. I will try to detail the figure voiced. Up to 9 million people perished in the Soviet Union. This is everyone. That is, those who died in battle, who died from wounds and diseases, who died in captivity, who were executed by a court sentence. In 1945, there were 1 million people undergoing treatment in hospitals. It is unlikely that they all died, and hardly even the majority. Another 11 million of our civilians were killed. It turns out that "unborn children" are more than 30 million people. Apparently with grandchildren and great-grandchildren. After a while, the liberals will drop the mention of "unborn children" and shout about the 50 million losses of the Red Army. They say they filled up with corpses. The Deputy Prosecutor General said! This is how history is falsified before our eyes.
    1. AlexTires
      AlexTires 20 November 2016 11: 43
      +5
      After 100 Lyamov Solzhenitsyn is all the flowers ....
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2016 11: 44
      +2
      So it turns out whatever one may say - 50 million direct and indirect losses, and Stalin should be given a separate "thank you" for the non-attack agreement with the Germans and everything that follows from this agreement.
      1. Polkanov
        Polkanov 20 November 2016 11: 56
        +14
        ... To Stalin - hi to convey, are you out of your mind, my friend? ...
        1. Hapfri
          Hapfri 20 November 2016 14: 12
          +4
          ... To Stalin - hi to convey, are you out of your mind, my friend? ...

          And you? The commander always answers. And for victories and for losses.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 20 November 2016 17: 00
            +7
            The commander always answers. And for victories and for losses.
            Well said. It means that he is responsible not only for "Crimeanash", but also for the betrayal of Donbass, for the deaths of the military in Syria, and after all, they died there long ago, not 10 or 20.
            For the ministers whom he himself appointed, for the destruction of culture and traditions in the country, for the imposed juvenile justice, for the liberalism to which he condemned all of Russia!
          2. AID.S
            AID.S 20 November 2016 22: 18
            +2
            Quote: Hupfri
            And you? The commander always answers. And for victories and for losses.

            Are you going to judge the winner? Disney tales seen enough?
      2. AlexTires
        AlexTires 20 November 2016 11: 59
        +21
        And you in the 1939 year, Latvia and Estonia concluded non-aggression agreements with Germany, there were rumors about a German-Estonian agreement on the transit of troops to the borders of the USSR, and earlier international agreements on guarantees of independence of the Baltic countries that the Soviet Union tried to conclude with 1933 years, which remained unsigned, as Poland rejected the treaty, and England and France preferred to drag the treaty endlessly, pushing Hitler eastwards in every possible way. The Soviet Union had only one way to ensure the security of its western borders - the conclusion of a non-aggression pact with Germany. And what exactly did Stalin personally bargain for with this agreement if you blame him?
      3. ava09
        ava09 20 November 2016 12: 01
        +13
        Such a deprived mind like you - "special thanks". Stupidly stop Russophobic propaganda about "Stalin's collusion with Hitler" if the meanings are not able to understand ...
        PS Sorry for the harshness - we defeated liberal storytellers.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 20 November 2016 21: 16
          0
          "Stupidly stop the Russophobic propaganda about" Stalin's collusion with Hitler "if the meanings are not able to understand ..." - It was not a conspiracy, it was a betrayal - as a result of which millions of Soviet citizens died, some died in terrible agony.
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 20 November 2016 21: 24
            +3
            Quote: Vadim237
            It was not a conspiracy. It was a betrayal.

            So, who betrayed -Poland? wink So, they previously signed such agreements with Hitler.
            Quote: zoolu300
            Stalin for the 1939 treaty. really have to say THANKS

            good
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 20 November 2016 22: 18
              0
              Vadim237
              about "collusion between Stalin and Hitler",

              This was not a conspiracy, it was a betrayal - as a result of which millions of Soviet citizens died, some died in terrible agony.
              Vadim! You are NOT right, but RIGHTS are your opponents.
              You, Vadim, need to refresh your information about the Second World War. And then you are now at the level of outdated and deliberate misinformation from such defector writers from Russia to the USA, such as the provocateur Suvorov (Rezun).
              Now for a long time already there is an excellent objective analytics about the Second World War.
              See book: Starikov Nikolay. Who made Hitler attack Stalin. Hitler's fatal mistake .-- St. Petersburg: Peter, 2015. -368 p.
              It is all laid out on the shelves - when (in what order) and what documents and agreements were adopted between countries before the Second World War and in connection with what.
          2. ava09
            ava09 20 November 2016 23: 02
            +3
            Not only are you, an ignoramus, with spelling mistakes in Russian, you are also moral ... Say thank you to Stalin for somehow "betraying" you, otherwise, at best, you would write your abomination in German, if your parents survived, but the Germans allowed you to at least learn to write ... By their standards, such a trash was enough to be able to sign.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 22 November 2016 00: 37
              0
              "It is not enough that you, ignoramus, write with spelling mistakes in Russian" - And where are the spelling errors? "You are still moral ..." - - Did I understand correctly? "Say thank you to Stalin for somehow" betraying "you - He did not betray me - he signed the death warrant to tens of millions of Soviet citizens, among whom were my relatives. Out of 17 people in my grandfather's family, at 41 he was 12 years - in two years of war, he was left alone - he lost everything and everyone, tell me that Stalin is not to blame for this: who signed a non-aggression pact with Germany, who started repressions against the officers of the Red Army, who ordered an end to the alarmism - "War is not there will be "who rejected Zhukov's directive - to bring the army to full combat readiness, a week before the start of the war, who surrounded himself with a bunch of sycophants who had little guts to tell Him that He was wrong - the supreme commander-in-chief - Stalin.
              I will say thank you to all Soviet people for the fact that they defeated the fascists with incredible work and hardships, in spite of the treachery of the authorities. And to the sycophants and the inmate - "Thank you"
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 22 November 2016 01: 05
                0
                Quote: Vadim237
                Say thanks to Stalin

                It seems to me that the Wehrmacht did not send Stalin to kill the Russians, but a completely different person - Hitler, but it’s easier for you to blame Stalin, you are like that drunk from a joke who is looking for keys under a lantern - it's light there.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 22 November 2016 23: 25
                  0
                  "It seems to me that the Wehrmacht did not send Stalin to kill the Russians" - For that, Stalin, together with the sycophants, brought the army to a discouraging state for the summer of 41, which led to huge losses among the military and civilians, and when the war began, they were engaged in crap - looking for the guilty - goats scapegoats, among senior officers.
                  1. Bloodsucker
                    Bloodsucker 22 November 2016 23: 30
                    0
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    the search for the perpetrators - scapegoats, among the senior officers.

                    Sir, and you will be able to confirm, in addition to the frills of corned beef, rezun and other balabol, your words?
                    And what will you tell as an example — you are comrades, but you are being rushed by a motorized infantry battalion with a company of tanks — do not want to be in the role of a liberal with his requests for a goldfish, at the expense of the Hero of the USSR?
                    To get from the mezzanine the long-rotten fairy tales of the Light and re-play them here ... at least it makes you think that you read, understand and analyze what you read, you do not know how.
                  2. Bakht
                    Bakht 22 November 2016 23: 38
                    0
                    Oh hard to talk to people who do not own the material. It should be understood that the Red Army of 1937 would have driven the Germans directly from the border to the West.
                    What did Stalin do before the war and in the early days of the war there are many documents. But there are probably a lot of letters. And read reluctance.
              2. Parsec
                Parsec 22 November 2016 01: 30
                +2
                Quote: Vadim237
                then he entered into a non-aggression pact with Germany, who began repressions against the officers of the Red Army, who ordered an end to alarmism - "There will be no war," who rejected Zhukov's directive to bring the army to full combat readiness a week before the start of the war,


                Where have you spent the last twenty-five years? You are broadcasting straight from the 90th year. Found an underused Ogonyok in the outhouse?

                Enlighten what directive Zhukov wanted to give a week before the war? Well, at least a project, at least a name?
      4. zoolu300
        zoolu300 20 November 2016 12: 33
        +21
        Stalin for the 1939 treaty. I must really say THANKS. For this treaty is the diamond star of Russian diplomacy. So toughly and skillfully "dissolve" all the enemies of the USSR. Only Yalta 1945 is comparable to it.
      5. free
        free 20 November 2016 14: 38
        +3
        ah pug (Vadim 237) to know she is strong that barks at an elephant!
      6. mark2
        mark2 20 November 2016 18: 35
        0
        Stalin should be given a separate "thank you" for the non-attack agreement



        The time will come, personally, and pass it on!
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 20 November 2016 21: 10
          0
          I will definitely give it.
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 22 November 2016 12: 11
          0
          everything will be there
          don't count steps traveler
      7. Cro-Magnon
        Cro-Magnon 20 November 2016 19: 10
        0
        "Fools do not sow or plow ... they grow by themselves!" (FROM)
    3. Vita vko
      Vita vko 20 November 2016 12: 04
      +2
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      Soviet soldiers killed up to 9 million people

      And the dead soldiers of the Wehrmacht 4,4-4,7 million people. 1/2 ratio. But it was not always so. At the beginning of the war of 1941-1942, the USSR simply suffered huge losses, the ratio was 1/7. And it was Stalin's personal fault.
      1. Sergey Medvedev
        Sergey Medvedev 20 November 2016 12: 19
        +17
        Quote: Vita VKO
        And the dead soldiers of the Wehrmacht 4,4-4,7 million people.

        These are only the dead, about whom it is known. And only Germany. Where are the losses of their allies? We were also attacked in 1941 by Italy, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Croatia and Finland. Indicate their losses, master liar and hypocrite. Or maybe just an ignoramus. And also Spain and France sent their troops without declaring war. A bit, but nonetheless. And millions more inhabitants of occupied Europe died in the ranks of the Wehrmacht and the SS for the "Aryan idea". Are they included in your numbers?
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 20 November 2016 12: 30
          +20
          And you also need to consider that our prisoners were not massively burned, they were not shot, and they were not forced to die in the mines. Our prisoners treated differently. Because they have less loss.
          1. Rader
            Rader 20 November 2016 13: 32
            +13
            dead soldiers of the Wehrmacht 4,4-4,7 million people.

            Eh ... Someone said about the four and a half million from the Germans and 10/15/30 million from the USSR (the Germans figure is decreasing over time, but we are increasing, curious ...) at the beginning of 90- x ...
            They refuted the figures of the losses of the Germans more than once, including on this website. It was pointed out that losses are given only for the Wehrmacht (SS, Luftwaffe and sailors do not count). The very methods of calculating the losses among the Germans are at first shocking, then cause delight and respect, because you have to be able to powder your brains like that (the seriously wounded were pushed out of the ranks of the "valiant Wehrmacht" and sent to the rear for treatment. "Not only everyone", or rather almost no one, reached the rear. ..). But the loss of the Reich's allies does not bother anyone.
            Met the figures for the total losses of German combatants (excluding allies) in 10-12 million. But okay, not the point. Curious is the very fact that the myths ala "Stalin repressed 100 million." or "Filled with meat" very tenacious. And this is scary, because it shows how easy it is to manipulate the consciousness of a modern person. Now people have no desire to analyze the information they receive and draw conclusions (especially in the West). They will believe in any nonsense, if told by a profitable person with a serious muzzle-face. What is the risk, think for yourself ...
        2. Vita vko
          Vita vko 20 November 2016 13: 26
          0
          Quote: Sergei Medvedev
          And where are the losses of their allies?

          Why so much pathos? Show the numbers
          Quote: Sergei Medvedev
          mister liar and hypocrite
          and this is not counting the victims of Stalinist repression !!!
          And the ratio of losses of 1/7 of the Nazis and the Soviet military at the beginning of the war is not an invention of historians, but a statistical fact of the General Staff of the Russian Federation. Unless of course you studied at the GSh Academy.
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 20 November 2016 19: 27
            +1
            The loss ratio is an invention not of historians but of politicians, by the winter of the forty-first the Germans stopped the attack due to a shortage of people. The five millionth army does not stop the offensive, having lost only TEN PERCENT, to stop the enemy it is necessary to knock out 50-60 percent, that is, only in the first year the Germans and allies lost 2-3 million people, otherwise they would have won the war against the USSR in the first year.
        3. Hapfri
          Hapfri 20 November 2016 14: 16
          0
          . Indicate their losses, Mr. liar and hypocrite. Or maybe just an ignoramus.

          Is it true that it hurts your eyes and your ear hurts? In the 41st summer, we had 5 million. And in December of the 41st, there were also 4-5 million under arms. And they called for 14 million over this period. So where did they go?
          In Leningrad alone, a million people died of starvation
          1. your1970
            your1970 20 November 2016 17: 10
            +2
            In the 41st summer, we had 5 million. And in December of the 41st, there were also 4-5 million under arms. And they called for 14 million over this period. So where did they go?- judging by your figure, they killed 14 million in 5 months !! You still forgot about the wounded who were returned to the front after recovery !! Total, according to your estimates, at least 15-16 million (if 14 were lost belay ) Wehrmacht destroyed ???
            ah young man - something Hitler had to rejoice !!! decided all !!!
            at such a pace by 1945, even the elderly / infants should have ended in the country ....
            Think - at least occasionally fool fool fool
          2. Cro-Magnon
            Cro-Magnon 20 November 2016 19: 22
            0
            You regret that we did not let all the allies of Hitler and the Germans from East Germany under the knife "like obrov ..."! ?? Or are you just trying to put a shit on the fan !?
          3. KaPToC
            KaPToC 20 November 2016 19: 30
            0
            14 million was called into industry.
        4. Olegovi4
          Olegovi4 20 November 2016 20: 40
          +1
          I agree with you. and it’s worth adding all sorts of roas and national legions from our prisoners of war who fought for Hitler’s folder. there is an opinion about the order of 900 thousand people.
        5. MrK
          MrK 21 November 2016 15: 42
          0
          Quote: Vita VKO
          And the dead soldiers of the Wehrmacht 4,4-4,7 million people.


          The Germans, we will pay tribute to the enemy, knew how to fight. Nevertheless, a study in the 1985 year of the American military department "Jemen menpower" - the most solid in terms of statistical apparatus - determined the number of dead and missing German soldiers in 6 990 728 person. (Moreover, this does not include those who died in hospitals from wounds, those who died in captivity). And in total, German irrevocable demographic losses amount to 12,8 million.
          The losses of the German allies totaled 1 468 145 people, or 20,4% of the number of irretrievable losses of the Wehrmacht on the Soviet-German front. The largest part of them falls on the Hungarian and Romanian troops. So the overall demographic Irrevocable losses of Germany and its allies on the Eastern Front amounted to 8 649,3 thousand people, of which purely German losses of about seven million.
          This is information for little liberals. Link to the same book by A. Kurlandchik.
      2. free
        free 20 November 2016 14: 40
        +2
        evidence in the studio, botolo liberal
      3. Cro-Magnon
        Cro-Magnon 20 November 2016 19: 16
        0
        Another accuser! A lot of you jackals biting a dead lion!
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 21 November 2016 08: 53
          0
          the wind of history will dispel everything
          Only it is not necessarily affectionate, it can be fiery, burning !!!
      4. KaPToC
        KaPToC 20 November 2016 19: 21
        +1
        More than three million Red Army men did not return from German captivity, the Germans made less casualties by killing prisoners - the killer nations were Germans, the Japanese and the Anglo-Americans at the head.
      5. ava09
        ava09 20 November 2016 20: 09
        +6
        (c) At the beginning of the war of 1941-1942, the USSR simply suffered huge losses, the ratio was 1/7. And it was Stalin's personal fault. (C)
        I would like more details, where did you see Stalin's personal guilt? An interesting Russophobic feint - the People won the war, but Stalin is to blame for everything ... A tale for the weak-minded preschool age ... Remember that the country won, it must be led, and during the years of such trials - courageously and skillfully. Only then the rear becomes the rear, the army becomes the army, and the people become the people. And only a combination of these factors gives victory. Try to figure it out ...
      6. Serg koma
        Serg koma 21 November 2016 00: 11
        +6
        Quote: Vita VKO
        Quote: Sergei Medvedev
        Soviet soldiers killed up to 9 million people
        And the dead soldiers of the Wehrmacht 4,4-4,7 million people. 1/2 ratio. But it was not always so. At the beginning of the war of 1941-1942, the USSR simply suffered huge losses, the ratio was 1/7. And it was Stalin's personal fault.

        Now start from the very beginning ....
        The very first mistake - ONLY mentioned Wehrmacht (about other divisions of fascist Germany data "in the studio").
        The second, about "70" million (at leisure google the population of Germany 1941). the population of Germany against the USSR (approximately 190 million people) .- the population of Italy in 1941: 44 million people, Finland - 3,7 million, Romania - 13 million, Slovakia - 3,5 million, Hungary - 9 million .. Total population of countries that only formally declared war on the USSR in June 1941, amounted to 163 million people.
        Third - Bulgaria - 6,7 million; France - 41 million; Norway - 3 million; Netherlands - 9 million
        Yes, they did not all (214 million) rushed to the USSR as an army, but THEY WORKED for Germany, production in the axis countries (satellites and others like them) is an order of magnitude, as they say now, more high-tech than in the USSR (after occupying part of the USSR territory, add and these production and human losses)
        CONCLUSION: In "one trench" for the Soviet motherland fought shoulder to shoulder, Ukrainian and Uzbek, Russian and Latvian, Georgians and Kazakhs and all other peoples of the USSR, and THEY WON (including CANNOT forget the rear workers), THEY routed the strongest European army.
        PS YOU can continue to consider according to Solonin, Solzhenitsyn, Nikulin and fascist documents ... YOU, after all, EVERYTHING that is said against the data of the authors (and the like) is a lie, but this is not the TRUTH OF THE LAST INSTANCE.
    4. Yuyuka
      Yuyuka 20 November 2016 12: 18
      +15
      After a while, the liberals will drop the mention of "unborn children" and will shout about the 50 million losses of the Red Army. They say they filled up with corpses. The Deputy Prosecutor General said! This is how history is falsified before our eyes.

      History does not know the subjunctive mood ... Bullshit about unborn is simply annoying, if only! And why not count those who died directly and indirectly in the 90s ?? The losses of those damned years on the way to the market are much worse, and the consequences will be raked for more than a dozen years! The point is not that 50 million is not that figure, but that it is a veiled desire to rewrite history, hang a huge blame on Stalin and the Soviet Union for the Second World War ...
      1. Uncle Murzik
        Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 12: 38
        +14
        no matter how nonsense the baffles were, the USSR won the greatest victory under the leadership of Stalin! do not forget to fight not only against Germany but practically against all of Europe!
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 20 November 2016 12: 46
          +2
          Quote: Uncle Murzik
          ... USSR under the leadership of Stalin won...

          - exactly
          - only the USSR is HE. Union indestructible republics of free ...
          - prerequisites, itch negative
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 13: 28
            +3
            Cat Man Null c'mon do not meow, with whom does not happen! wassat
        2. Hapfri
          Hapfri 20 November 2016 15: 49
          +1
          no matter what nonsense they carried, the USSR, under the leadership of Stalin, won

          And where is this USSR that won? Where? I do not see her? I see Russia under the Russian flag and Banderstadt under Bandera, but the USSR does not. No.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 20 November 2016 17: 15
            +4
            I see Russia under the Russian flag and Banderstadt under Bandera,
            Trading tricolor cannot be a Russian flag. And Little Russia and New Russia are part of Great Russia, although it is unpleasantly entrenched in the Kremlin. As for their flag, this is the flag of Ukraine, which included the current Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.
            1. Retvizan
              Retvizan 20 November 2016 22: 15
              0
              Quote: Gardamir
              As for their flag, this is the flag of Ukraine, which included the current Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.

              All the same, all our flags are not the Bright Scarlet banner of Victory (except that the copies they wear), the flag of the country that won .... the current flags are Russian that Ukrainian, are not the flags of the winners ... rather the opposite.
          2. Olegovi4
            Olegovi4 20 November 2016 20: 43
            0
            this does not cancel the fact of Victory !!!
      2. Hapfri
        Hapfri 20 November 2016 14: 42
        0
        Wouldn’t you count those who died directly and indirectly in the 90s ??

        What does the 90s have to do with it. Theme of the Patriotic.
        1. Yuyuka
          Yuyuka 21 November 2016 12: 17
          0
          Wouldn’t you count those who died directly and indirectly in the 90s ??

          What does the 90s have to do with it. Theme of the Patriotic.


          And what have the unborn and digital figures of 50 million ?? request Here the question is not the topic, but in an attempt to correct the story, and in crooked ways - to overestimate the losses, pointing out the worthlessness of power in the USSR, which failed to prevent such a demographic failure! well, and further down the beaten track ... I don’t want to repeat myself, so much has been written on this topic, including here in VOhi
      3. Gardamir
        Gardamir 20 November 2016 17: 05
        +1
        veiled desire to rewrite history
        good
      4. MrK
        MrK 21 November 2016 15: 54
        +1
        I agree with Yuyuk. I will supplement it.
        History rewriting timeline
        1945 year. USSR, Stalin - heroes. The fascists are killers.
        1961 year. The USSR is a hero. Stalin is not quite good. The fascists are killers.
        1985 year. The USSR is not quite a hero. Stalin is bad. The fascists are killers. But among them were not bad.
        1991 year. The USSR is not a hero. Stalin is a killer. The fascists are not bad, but there were killers among them.
        2016 year. The USSR is an occupier. Stalin is a killer. The Germans are good and if not for Stalin, then among them there would be no killers.
        2017 year. The USSR is an occupier and would lose the war if not for the USA. Stalin is a monster. The Germans generally defended themselves.
        2020 year. The USSR began World War II and built concentration camps. The Germans tried to stop him.

        Pulled from the open spaces.
    5. Hapfri
      Hapfri 20 November 2016 13: 58
      +2
      Soviet soldiers killed up to 9 million people. This is all. That is, those who died in battle, died from wounds and illnesses, died in captivity, executed by a court verdict.

      This is not all. 9 million are just dead at the front. Those who died a year later were not included in this list. About the disease - in general there was no question. Captivity is a separate category. This is another 3 million. Executed by court verdict - this is a separate category - more than 700000 people. The dead militia - no one counted them, they went outside the lists of the Red Army, but 2 million people went through the militia.
      One battle of Rzhev claimed a million. And how do you think your infantry to storm unsubdued machine guns? On the other hand, it is easier for generals of the red army to nullify how many divisions or even armies are than to endure the Master’s reproaches for inaction. With possible unfavorable career prospects.

      In the 17th, Soviet Russia lost conscience. Hence such losses.
      1. Bloodsucker
        Bloodsucker 20 November 2016 14: 06
        +8
        Quote: Hupfri
        In the 17th, Soviet Russia lost conscience. Hence such losses.

        Well, as always, time?
        Starting from the statement that 17 year olds were on the fronts, ending with "unaccounted for," allegedly losses ..
        Mr. liar, are you Vlasovites, Krasnovists, Banderaites, Kiteselites and Aizsargs, in general collaborators, do you consider the same losses from our side?
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 14: 33
          +6
          The bloodsucker well Hapfrey Goebbels long ago surpassed his highs!
          1. Hapfri
            Hapfri 20 November 2016 15: 55
            +1
            The bloodsucker well Hapfrey Goebbels long ago surpassed his highs!

            Rude boy.
            You have to be more polite. Well the author has applied you
            1. Bloodsucker
              Bloodsucker 20 November 2016 19: 55
              +2
              You and politeness, as well as you and conscience with morality, things are not compatible.
              The author including.
              Quote: Hupfri
              Rude boy.
        2. Hapfri
          Hapfri 20 November 2016 15: 20
          +1
          Mr. liar, you are Vlasovites

          Uncle, the prosecutor already told you everything. Aw! Prosecutor, you see. Vlasovites, commissars, all .... 50 million
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 15: 34
            +3
            Hapfrey, where did he say about the Vlasovites? belay "The indirect (demographic) losses also include the unborn children of the perished Soviet citizens!" If he counted five children from one deceased, then the figure increased by two or even three, then he would have surpassed Solzhenitsyn !! Zvyagintsev, as you are not lying bags toss and turn! laughing
            1. Hapfri
              Hapfri 20 November 2016 16: 07
              +1
              "Indirect (demographic) losses also include unborn children

              But what about.
              You're all lying. Your Stalin generally recognized only 7 million. Winner.
              From the lies of your USSR and fell apart
              1. Cro-Magnon
                Cro-Magnon 20 November 2016 19: 31
                +3
                Don’t sit down! Your Hollywood, too, will soon drown from your own lies ... history, it is repeated sometimes as a farce!
      2. inferno_nv
        inferno_nv 20 November 2016 19: 34
        +1
        So maybe you still count who survived to this day, and the rest who did not survive the loss write down? For people like you, it would probably be better if our grandfathers didn’t resist at all, well, or how the French raised their legs in 2 weeks! So is it a dog? You are there about shot by conviction, and so the bulk of what fell under the execution for? Maybe due to alarmism, cowardice, etc. There was a WAR and there was no time to pickle, the human right to observe was also useless in such a period! Humanity la!
      3. Serg koma
        Serg koma 21 November 2016 00: 32
        +1
        Quote: Hupfri
        Sovetskaya of Russia

        You have a mistake, RSFSR = Russian SOVIET Federal Socialist Republic.
        Usually such mistakes are made only by holy fools who do not remember, I really hope you do not belong to them.
      4. inferno_nv
        inferno_nv 21 November 2016 16: 50
        0
        When did you lose your conscience?
    6. MrK
      MrK 20 November 2016 23: 39
      +2
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      Now all liberal "historians" to the place and out of place will shout,


      Dear Sergey. I agree with you completely. But let me clarify. It was previously believed that the sum of all the losses of the USSR during the war amounted to 11 444,1 thousand people.
      However, later, from this number, 939,7 thousand troops were excluded, who were considered missing at the beginning of the war but recruited into the army on the territory liberated from occupation, as well as 1 836 thousand former soldiers who returned from captivity after the end of the war - only 2 775,7 thousand people.
      Thus, the actual number of irretrievable (all demographic) losses of the USSR Armed Forces amounted to 8668,4 thousand people. And according to the latest data from our archivists - 8 866 thousand people.
      On the loss of civilian population. 26,6 million dead and deceased in the USSR are calculated by the balance method, and not by archives. Sober-minded scientists and analysts believe that the total demographic losses of the USSR during the Great Patriotic War do not exceed 16,5 million people.
      From the book of Alexander Kurlyandchik "Damned" Soviet power ... on Proza.ru. (and he processed more than 2000 sources, although he referred to 648).
  6. Evgeniy30
    Evgeniy30 20 November 2016 11: 33
    +9
    Why not 50 billion? Why do liberals always like to overstate numbers?
    1. OLD FART
      OLD FART 20 November 2016 11: 50
      +2
      Quote: Eugene30
      Why not 50 billion? Why do liberals always like to overstate numbers?

      Whiners .... Germany still pays the Jews ...! For 6 million, that in the first world, in the second ... They want to unleash the third .. They pay a little money!
    2. Vita vko
      Vita vko 20 November 2016 11: 54
      +1
      This is really a reality. For example, the population of the USSR in 1940 was 194,1 million people, and in 1950 178,5 million people.
      1. vovanpain
        vovanpain 20 November 2016 12: 17
        +13
        Quote: Vita VKO
        This is really a reality. For example, the population of the USSR in 1940 was 194,1 million people, and in 1950 178,5 million people.

        Excuse me, colleague, but what is reality? We take the calculator in hand, we count 194.1-178.5 we get 15.6. And my colleague, all the same front-line soldiers came back, was, as they say, "baby boom", my mother including the child of Victory. Respectfully colleague hi
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 20 November 2016 12: 28
          +2
          Quote: vovanpain
          , was as they say "baby boom"

          My grandfathers, for two, had eight children.
          1. Bath
            Bath 20 November 2016 12: 38
            +2
            Well, Russia was compared, and now it is dying out slowly, despite all the agitation, are we really fighting with someone now? Igil does not count)))
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 20 November 2016 21: 02
            +1
            One of my grandfathers, by father, has seven children (all from one marriage), the second has five children, though from three marriages. Both participants in the war.
        2. Hapfri
          Hapfri 20 November 2016 18: 08
          0
          we get 15.6

          Only life does not stand still and during these 10 years another 20 million were born.

          Plus, we get 35,6 losses. Regards, colleague
      2. Serg koma
        Serg koma 20 November 2016 12: 42
        +1
        And where does SUCH "truth" come from? The population census of the USSR was carried out in 1939 (170,6 million people), and then in 1959 (208,8 million people).
        Who gave birth to 1950 million people from 1959 to 30? Ek, you turned down, just like the vice-president of the International Association of Prosecutors, Alexander Zvyagintsev, you probably use some charts?
  7. Barakuda
    Barakuda 20 November 2016 11: 34
    +10
    I was lucky - both grandfathers remained alive (although Ikostas is from the orders). Therefore, I am here. Glory to Them!
    1. OLD FART
      OLD FART 20 November 2016 11: 45
      +2
      Quote: Barracuda
      I was lucky - both grandfathers remained alive (although Ikostas is from the orders). Therefore, I am here. Glory to Them!

      May God grant them health ... We will fix everything! soldier I swear!
  8. Evgeniy30
    Evgeniy30 20 November 2016 11: 34
    +5
    Quote: Snif
    And the Germans are 5 million fighting on all fronts and 1.5 civil. But in the next heroic movie, for some reason, we will again be shown how 28 Panfilov’s nemchuru fell in bundles. Propaganda lie about how well we can fight

    And you more believe in all morons.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 20 November 2016 11: 59
      +3
      Sergei Gavrilovich Semenov, 1931, d. Maksimovo, Staritsky district of the Kalinin region: "We were under the German for a month and a half, but nearby, under Rzhev 1,5 g, They did not consider us to be people." At 10 years old, the child understood instinctively, everyday communication, glances and were beaten, expelled from the hut.
      + the elder brother died at the front, and 2 more were blown up on the remaining supplies in the ground (which ones? I dismantled out of curiosity, but I don’t know)
  9. AlexTires
    AlexTires 20 November 2016 11: 40
    0
    We have lost too much, the losses are irreparable and I think that we still feel them acutely. And if you also add 100 million over the past 25 years, to no one comfortable and silent ....
  10. taseka
    taseka 20 November 2016 11: 47
    +3
    Making people stupid is one of the prerogatives of the top Belvedere club because then it’s easier to manipulate them!
  11. Rom14
    Rom14 20 November 2016 11: 49
    +5
    In fairness and conscience, it is necessary to present invoices of moral and material compensation to all the impudent state governments rescued from destruction by the Nazis. Maybe then it will reach them that their life in Russia is obligated for the coffin .., although they treat the sick people, only time to lose. A bill must be presented.
  12. Tusv
    Tusv 20 November 2016 11: 50
    +3
    This is a stolen victory

    Which on account of the Kashchei won in the far-away kingdom, is of little concern.
    Nothing to cry for West
    Genetic memory is stronger than Zvyagintsev's words, it cannot be stolen. We must say: "Take an example from Tamerlane" - came, saw and well, he nafig to communicate with the Russians. We know where the death of Kashcheev
  13. spiriolla-45
    spiriolla-45 20 November 2016 12: 23
    +1
    So they forget who puts Europe in its place when it runs into the stars and starts all over again. That's how their sclerosis Russia treats with stars and treats, only for a long time it’s not enough, relapses happen
  14. Belopolyak
    Belopolyak 20 November 2016 12: 36
    +2
    The main threat for us now is from within. External because of nuclear weapons will not climb.
  15. Hello
    Hello 20 November 2016 12: 49
    +3
    Sometimes it's better to chew.
    As an example, he mentioned the results of a recent survey conducted in the EU: only 12% of respondents “named the USSR the winner of fascism in Europe”.

    Fascism in Europe was defeated by the anti-Hitler coalition, to which the USSR made a significant contribution (I would even say decisive if we are talking about Europe), but the coalition fought and the coalition defeated.
    No need to rewrite history. angry
    1. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 13: 23
      +7
      the flag of the USSR was raised above Berlin, not the coalition! soldier When the German general Alfred Jodl signed the surrender, in addition to Marshal Zhukov, representatives of the United States and France were present in the room. Perplexedly looking at the Frenchman, Jodl asked Zhukov - "what, these, too, defeated us"?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 November 2016 13: 55
        +4
        "the flag of the USSR and not the coalition is raised over Berlin!" ////

        Naturally. In Yalta, it was strictly agreed that Berlin would
        take only Soviet troops. Stalin insisted on this, and the Allies agreed.
        Therefore, the Americans who came to Berlin 2 weeks earlier than Red
        armies, stopped on the Elbe and waited for the Soviet army to complete the encirclement
        cities. General Patton sent telegrams with permission to Eisenhower every day
        continue the offensive and each time he was refused.
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 14: 43
          +5
          You, as always, Eugene dzuzya do not dissemble a lot! lol “Another opportunity to avoid the Cold War arose in April 1945, when the Allied armies invaded Germany from both the east and the west. Earlier, the Allies agreed that Berlin would be occupied by the Red Army, because then it seemed that this was dictated by the logic of circumstances. Moreover, it was assumed that Berlin would be entirely in the Soviet zone of occupation of Germany.However, after the crossing of the Rhine in March 1945, the advance of the Western armies [300] accelerated so much that their rush to Berlin became not only possible, but - at least from the point of view of some military leaders - highly desirable.It is known that Field Marshal Montgomery did his best to persuade Dwight D. which left Berlin for the Russians, which irritated Britain: Eisenhower's relationship with Stalin characterized oval with the phrase "Come on, Joe" - the usual address of London prostitutes to potential clients from among the American soldiers. The "Berlin issue" was raised again in mid-April, when US Ninth Army reached the Elbe, just fifty miles from the German capital. The now American commander, William Simpson, pleaded with the commander-in-chief to allow him to take the city, which he was sure he could reach in one day. But Eisenhower again said no, not wanting the Americans to suffer high losses in order to achieve a goal that did not seem to him strategically important. General George Patton, who supported Simpson's request, insisted on a swift take of Berlin and a move to the Oder, but Eisenhower persisted, arguing that Berlin, with its destroyed infrastructure and hordes of panic-stricken residents, would be more of a burden than a prey. "Who needs it?" - he said, to which Patton said: "I think history will give the answer to this question."
          For half a century there has been a debate about whether the troops of the Western Allies could really snatch Berlin from under the noses of the Russians. The answer is: hardly. Montgomery, no matter how much he was a cock, was a very cautious and slow general, and therefore an unlikely candidate for victory in the race for any purpose - except, perhaps, a pedestal for placing his own person on it. Simpson was a more energetic warlord, but he brought little more than a vanguard to the Elba, while the main force was far behind. In addition, on the way to Berlin, he would have to cross several water obstacles, which could not but slow down the progress, and the fuel for the final dash would obviously require more than was available. The Russians, for their part, approached the city 15 miles closer than the Americans, and had an incomparably large force - about 1 people with 250 artillery units [000]. “Well, Stalin could not have forced the offensive, and no matter what ended for the allies in the Ardennes only God knows! soldier
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 20 November 2016 15: 01
            +2
            "Earlier, the allies agreed that Berlin will be occupied by the Red Army" ////

            It is in Yalta. Which was done.
            1. Tusv
              Tusv 20 November 2016 15: 33
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              "Earlier, the allies agreed that Berlin will be occupied by the Red Army" ////
              It is in Yalta. Which was done.

              Not well, of course, the Israelis know better. All the NKVD archives have long been between the Nile and Euphrates
        2. Tusv
          Tusv 20 November 2016 15: 18
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Therefore, the Americans who came to Berlin 2 weeks earlier than Red
          armies, stopped on the Elbe and waited for the Soviet army to complete the encirclement

          In the promised land of the exam introduced?
          The complete encirclement of Berlin by the Red Army is dated April 25th. The Allies, of course, were rapidly advancing, but on April 11 they were, as in Estonian, very talllekoo. And a week before the famous meeting on the Elbe, the Allies only took Leipzig.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 20 November 2016 16: 35
            +1
            "The allies of course attacked rapidly, but on April 11 they were," ////

            April 12 went to Elba.
            "On April 12 two American armies reached the rivers Elbe and Mulde
            and on April 14 English divisions reached Elbe near Hamburg. "
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 20 November 2016 17: 21
              +3
              It’s true that they entered Elba on April 12th. Plus or minus a tram stop. But who would have allowed them to advance further? In the memoirs of the Anglo-Saxons it is clearly stated that the commanders on the ground were not allowed to attack the Elbe. Plus, Americans never liked to take risks. The same memoirs said that there were great difficulties in logistics. You must always remember that the depth of operations of that time was 300-400 km. Rarely when 500 km.
              Problems with fuel, food, plus clear orders from commanders. No one wanted to come into contact with the Red Army.
              There is one more psychological moment. It is one thing to accept surrender in the Ruhr and quite another to fight for a major city. No matter what the Germans were, but even in April of the 45th, they would not even have given Berlin to the Amers without a fight.
              So the stop of the allies was quite natural.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 20 November 2016 17: 44
                +2
                "It's one thing to accept surrender in the Ruhr" ////

                Have you ever been to Ruhr? There is continuous urban
                building and industrial zones. Continuous cities and factories. The city goes into the city.
                It was also then.
                So the Americans had experience of urban fighting. Plus tested
                carpet bombing method. 500-800 heavy bombers per pair
                days would have turned Berlin into a lunar landscape without any loss of Americans.
                The stop was caused precisely by the allied agreements that were respected.
                1. Bakht
                  Bakht 20 November 2016 18: 02
                  +2
                  Being in the Ruhr is too general. In Germany there was. And in the Ruhr, too.
                  There were no fights in the direct sense of the word. Field Marshal Model ordered the dissolution and shot himself. It was precisely the surrender. Do not confuse Stalingrad in 1942 and the Ruhr of 1945.
                  Again. In the memoirs of the Americans it is clearly stated that insurmountable obstacles arose in matters of supply. Plus huge masses of refugees that no one took into account. But they had to be fed.
                  And yes, there were agreements for the violation of which the political leadership of America was not ready. For the Americans it was more important not to capture Berlin, but Japan. It was Churchill who drove all the troops, but the Americans did not need it.
              2. Tusv
                Tusv 20 November 2016 20: 25
                +2
                Quote: Bakht
                It’s true that they entered Elba on April 12th. Plus or minus a tram stop. But who would have allowed them to advance further?

                The German group in Leipzig and nefig ride on the ears that supposedly Uncle Joe ordered Uncle Sam to stop for two weeks. Between the capture of Leipzig and the complete encirclement of Berlin, the Red Army 6 days and 180 km. The Americans really wanted to take Berlin. What prevented them? the same tram stop and Russian soldier
            2. Tusv
              Tusv 20 November 2016 17: 40
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              On April 12 two American armies reached the rivers Elbe and Mulde
              and on April 14 English divisions reached Elbe near Hamburg. "

              Am I correctly translating the 14th English Division to force the Elbe near Hamburg? - 280 km from Berlin
              Two American armies surrounded Leipzig - 180 km from Berlin. Surround and take is not the same thing.
              And this. The allies frantically advanced until May 1, until they ran into the Red Army.
        3. 1rl141
          1rl141 20 November 2016 17: 19
          +7
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Therefore, the Americans who came to Berlin 2 weeks earlier than Red
          armies, stopped on the Elbe and waited for the Soviet army to complete the encirclement
          cities. General Patton sent telegrams with permission to Eisenhower every day
          continue the offensive and each time he was refused.

          New chip? Americans favorably allowed the Russians to win that war?
    2. inferno_nv
      inferno_nv 20 November 2016 14: 05
      +12
      To defeat the Germans, they opened a second front already in 1944, although Stalin requested as early as 1942 (late 1941) !!!! Well, a little in Africa they kept the fox by the tail, but only the epididyal corps fought there! To which neither reserves can be thrown in time, nor a power supply drive! In 1944-1945, Hitler removed the best parts from France (exactly where the coalition came !!!) and sent them to the front against the Russians, and in April 1945, all of them simply surrendered to the coalition troops in 100, mainly so as not to fall under the Russians ! When their Germans squeezed in the Ardennes, they begged Stalin to launch an offensive earlier than planned, and only because of this the loss increased by almost 000 people from the USSR, 100 to save 000 Yankees and the British, they themselves were already bent there! No need here about coalitions, the USSR won the war, the USSR took Berlin, the USSR defeated Nazi Germany !!! But the coalition chewed your snot until the moment until they realized that Stalin would take all of Europe, and then they began to open a second front, etc. !!! DO NOT REWrite HISTORY !!!
  16. Bakht
    Bakht 20 November 2016 13: 10
    +12
    There are lies, big lies and statistics.
    After all, you can look at indirect data. For example, the loss of military personnel. Germany during the years from 1939 to 1945 mobilized about 20 million people. In April of the 45th, the army was about 4-5 million people. Where did 15 million go? This is the loss of the German army during the Second World War. Whoever writes about 5-6 million is simply not in the know. I specifically do not take into account the dead, wounded and sick. These are real LOSSES. The wounded, frostbite gone insane are deleted from the military personnel. Therefore, Keitel was right when he wrote that the monthly losses of the army were 100-150 thousand people a month (not counting major battles). We multiply 72 months by 150 thousand and we get the Germans' losses of 10 million. Plus the big battles and voila .... What a surprise. The Germans still lost 10 to 15 million.
    We take the USSR. Mobilized from 31 to 34 million people. A lot and the numbers vary. But in the army by May 1945 there were about 13 million people. Losses (killed wounded missing persons) 20 million. A lot ... Of course a lot.

    But the ratio is 15: 20. The losses of the Germans must be counted on the allies too. But then it would be nice to calculate the losses of the allies. Considering that 80% of the German losses fell on the Eastern Front, there is no need to talk about "filling up with corpses".
    50 million is already from the field of, say, unscientific fiction
    1. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 13: 33
      +2
      Bakht so added the demographic loss to the unborn, etc.!
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 20 November 2016 13: 42
        +8
        I understand that they have added ... But this is precisely the guile ...
        "In perestroika times, they are being tried for a moonshine still found in the attic. The poor man swears that he didn't even know that there was some kind of machine. The judge is relentless." Get 2 years. "Poor fellow" Thank God that they did not give 15 years for rape. "Judge" And what does rape have to do with it? How is it? The apparatus is "

        Demography is such a science .... 20 million men could have one child, and they could have two. And from hunger after the front, they could punch 5-6 children. How many died there? 20 million? So I can safely say that the demographic loss is 150 million. Where is Solzhenitsyn .... :-)
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 13: 48
          +3
          I agree that such idiots as Zvyagintsev are worse than traitors! hi
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 20 November 2016 13: 53
            +8
            This is complete idiocy thrown from time to time by the liberals. And why not count all the unborn throughout Europe? And why not count the Jews, tens of millions? Or the Germans are also tens of millions. For some reason, such calculations are carried out only in relation to the USSR. It was as if the USSR was beginning that damned war. The losses were great. This is our pain and our misfortune. And there’s nothing to poke around in our wounds with dirty fingers. There can only be one answer.
        2. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 20 November 2016 13: 51
          +5
          first zakharova then bow, now zvyagintsy? belay "I am plagued by vague doubts"
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 20 November 2016 14: 02
            +6
            Yes, there is room for doubt. But .... A man must do his own thing. His ... Well, what does the prosecutor care about losses ..? In this case, he can be the same amateur as the average man. Listened somewhere. I’m a loafer and have nothing to do, I have been reading different books for many years. And smart and not very. And Zakharova should be involved in politics. Poklonskaya did not meddle in matters of succession, and Zvyagintsev studied the criminal code. Or is there a civilian.
            He expressed his opinion? Well ... and do not give a damn and forget. It seems so said Comrade Chapaev?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 20 November 2016 15: 08
              0
              Are there any figures of material losses?
    2. Shadow of darkness
      Shadow of darkness 20 November 2016 15: 25
      +1
      This included the loss of civilian population associated with both hostilities and their consequences. People were also killed while fleeing the war zone (diseases, accidents, hunger, frostbite). As well as losses associated with the consequences of the war in the form of a blast on the ammunition left after the fighting.
      It is also possible that the consequences of the war caused by disability and the loss of the ability to have children were introduced into demographic losses.
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 20 November 2016 16: 40
      +1
      “In April 45, there were about 4-5 million people in the active army. Where did 15 million go?

      They just took off their uniforms, threw down their weapons and went home at the end of the war: "Hitler kaput"
      Who was willing to go to prisoner of war camps and be interrogated for their affairs?
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 20 November 2016 17: 29
        +6
        It is hard to believe that 10 million took off their uniforms .... But what about Keitel’s memories? 100-150 thousand monthly losses. He had to recover losses in the army.
        Photo mechanic - a driver on the Tiger at the age of 15 years not seen? And Volkssturm probably all in a terrible dream dreamed ... With 5 million losses and 20 million conscription, but the Germans had to win the war. I heard the same tales about the Finns. In the 40th they lost 10 thousand with 300 army and surrendered. But Mannerheim somehow thought differently. Like Keitel in the 000th. I think they knew arithmetic better.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 20 November 2016 17: 54
          +1
          "Have you seen the photo of the driver on the Tigris at the age of 15?" ///

          Did you know that most of the stages of heavy tank battalions
          (Tigers, just) safely survived the war and met on their
          veteran Sabantuyah right up to the 90s? Although the Tigers didn’t get out of the heavy
          fights. And all of their most famous air aces survived, by the way.
          And most importantly: in Germany, a post-war demographic pit did not form.
          This indicates moderate military losses relative to the total
          residents.
          I would prefer that half of Germany be killed in that war, but alas ...
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 20 November 2016 18: 12
            +3
            Yes, demography let us down. Unfortunately in the USSR, the civilian population was also destroyed. In Germany, this was not so noticeable.
            When I wrote about a 15-year-old teenager, I had in mind something completely different. With such small losses, there would be no need to call 15-year-olds to the front.
            Did you know that most of the Luftwaffe pilots died and who is buried and who is not. The fact that several aces survived does not change anything in the big picture.
            The numbers seem innocent. But I somehow read that in the bomber aircraft of England the percentage of losses was small. Only 7%. But sometimes the pilots experienced depression and they refused to take off. Just because 7% of losses mean only 10-15 sorties. And all ... This does not mean that everyone died. Just for thought
          2. Bloodsucker
            Bloodsucker 20 November 2016 18: 28
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            (Tigers, just) safely survived the war and met on their
            veteran Sabantuyah right up to the 90s?

            What are you ?? Probably because there were 15-17 years old, the soldiers survived undeveloped?
            As he was meeting with a former prisoner, near Falkenhagen, he was the owner of the goschet at that time, they talked ... so the German said right away that it’s good that I landed in captivity in 1943, and did not die like 8 out of ten of his colleagues by 1945.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            And most importantly: in Germany, a post-war demographic pit did not form.

            Yeah, of course, of course .. in vain was the GSVG standing there, correcting the gene pool?
            Who served in Germany knows how it was.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            This indicates moderate military losses relative to the total
            residents.

            In general, you do not know anything.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            I would prefer that half of Germany be killed in that war, but alas ...

            Cannibal.
            We Russians, unlike you Jews, respect the enemy, but do not take revenge on the defeated, so maybe among literate people, what do we have, what the Germans have, no hostility?
          3. Cro-Magnon
            Cro-Magnon 20 November 2016 19: 57
            +3
            These air aces of yours survived because they had a "privilege" from their superiors to "free hunt" ... the risk is minimal, crosses on board and tunics are growing in number ... and the air war was lost back in 43!
    4. dimitresky
      dimitresky 20 November 2016 16: 46
      +3
      I support in the calculations. And we won without filling up the corpses - at the beginning of the war there were simply enormous losses, but when the Germans were driven back the losses became comparable. And besides, there are still voices about the fact that because of Stalin we were not ready for war, but then answer me such a question - WHO WAS BETTER IN US IN THE WORLD WAS READY FOR A WAR WITH GERMANY AT THIS MOMENT ?! !!!
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 November 2016 17: 07
        +1
        "WHO IS BETTER THAN US IN THE WORLD WAS READY FOR WAR WITH GERMANY AT THAT MOMENT" ////

        England of course. Therefore, they could not capture her. They immediately leaned on the release of fighters
        and heavy bombers. Managed to fight off the Luftwaffe. Achieve dominance in the air.
        Well, they had a serious fleet, which locked German.
        Ground forces, especially armored, they were rather weak in comparison with the German, this is true. But the fact remains: the Nazis failed to set foot on their land.
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 20 November 2016 17: 31
          +6
          Did you want to? England was ready for war ....
          Oh, and it became funny to me ....
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 20 November 2016 18: 10
            +1
            "Did you want to? ////

            Just as he wanted ... Hitler didn’t know the commandment of the German military classics:
            "never fight on two fronts"?
            That he climbed from a good life to the USSR, leaving his
            the industrial forge of the Ruhr and its capital Berlin under English bombs?
            He got into a "draw" with England and thought to compensate for the failure with a grand victory in the east. But he received a severe defeat from the USSR.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 20 November 2016 18: 18
              +4
              I never wanted to. He wanted a completely different one. But it is useless to discuss here. Each has its own point of view.
              Want a logical construct. Autumn of 1940. England is under attack. There are only 200 Matild guns on the entire island. What should Churchill do? Defend? What are you ... Does he defend himself if no one attacks him. All cannon tanks were sent by speed convoy directly through the Mediterranean to Egypt.
              Nobody was going to climb to England. Already in the 41st after Pearl Harbor, Hitler said in his hearts - we are fighting the wrong people.
              Oh, this story .... It seems that all the facts are before us. But the argument does not subside.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 20 November 2016 18: 34
                +1
                "There are only 200 cannon Matildas on the whole island. What should Churchill do? Defend" ///

                Churchill was a cold-blooded, confident politician and military strategist.
                In the fall of the 40th battle for Britain was already over. English victory.
                Churchill correctly calculated that without aviation and with a locked fleet, the Nazis had no chance of a successful landing on the island.
                But on Egypt - the key to the east of Brij and the oil there - Hitler looked seriously.
                And these Matildas came in handy exactly when Rommel landed in Africa.
                1. inferno_nv
                  inferno_nv 20 November 2016 19: 13
                  +1
                  As a politician, yes, but as a military strategist, well, absolutely NOT! From him, a strategist like a ballerina from Klitschko! What manifested his military strategist? Together with the USA, they worked out a landing on the coast for 3 years and made it so that now it is considered the worst landing operation of all time!
                2. Bakht
                  Bakht 22 November 2016 21: 20
                  +1
                  Sorry, was busy. But just like that, one cannot leave without an answer. Read at least Churchill's memoirs. Matilda was sent not in the autumn, but in the SUMMER of 1940. Just in the midst of the Battle of England.
                  As for the cold-blooded politician and strategist ....
                  Well, I just laugh and laugh. Churchill had an enduring reputation as a "lucky adventurer." Here the pressure and faith he did not take. And planning was his weak point.
                  For example. The best English admiral of the ABS (the same Cunningham) sent the prime minister on a walking erotic tour for his planning. It almost came to the king, who had to moderate the ardor of his prime minister. And in the memoirs the phrase "I can not imagine how we can win the war while Churchill is in power. But even without him it is impossible to win." In full accordance with this statement, Churchill in 45 went for a walk in the forest.
                  Churchill's planning ....? Oh and laughter. For one of his Libyan campaign of 1940 and an adventure with Greece, you can safely put up against the wall. How much blood did the British shed because of this "planner and strategist"?
            2. Bloodsucker
              Bloodsucker 20 November 2016 18: 20
              +4
              Quote: voyaka uh
              That he climbed from a good life to the USSR, leaving his
              the industrial forge of the Ruhr and its capital Berlin under English bombs?

              Well, there were many bombed Hitler with English bombs, until 1944?
              http://www.ljpoisk.ru/archive/5303354.html
              From how cool they bombed .. prisoners, yes, they killed, but it’s impossible to see that the enterprise got a lot. And so everywhere until 1944.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              "never fight on two fronts"?

              I did not forget, but having received carte blanche from England, I felt calm while unleashing the war with the USSR.
              It’s not in vain that Hessa was blamed by the arrogant Saxons, just so cool that he would not have spoken about conspiracy upon his release.
              We refer to Dulles, the future director of the CIA, during the war, the head of the European Bureau of the Office of Strategic Services of the United States. After the war, in the spring of 1948, he wrote: “After the fall of France, Churchill dragged on time and looked for opportunities to create a second front. He wanted the United States and the USSR to become allies of Great Britain. But the Soviets then collaborated with Germany. That is why Winston Churchill faced the need to ensure that Hitler himself declared war on the Soviets. British intelligence managed to convince Rudolf Hess: if the German command declares war on the Soviets, England will cease hostilities against Germany. Hess convinced Hitler that all this had to be believed. British intelligence “fabricated” an invitation signed by Churchill. At the talks, Hess assured that Hitler would attack the USSR. British officials: we will fulfill our obligations too ... "
              http://fanread.ru/book/11852649/?page=36
              At the Nuremberg trials, Hess tried to uncover the secret of his visit to England on the eve of the German attack on the USSR, but the English prosecutor presiding in court urgently adjourned the meeting. During the break, representatives of the British secret services visited Hess's cell, after which the defendant began to pretend to be a memory loss. By decision of the Nuremberg Tribunal, Hess was transferred to Spandau International Prison to serve a life sentence, where in 1987 he died under circumstances that have not yet been clarified. The materials of the investigation of his “suicide” were kept secret until 2017, and the transcripts of interrogations of the envoy of Hitler, made in the dungeons of the British intelligence services, will not be open until at least 2040.http: //svpressa.ru/society/article/43168/
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 20 November 2016 19: 03
                +1
                "I did not forget, but having received carte blanche from England I felt calm while unleashing a war with the USSR" ////

                Carte blanche?
                And if you look at the dates of what happened in May 1941, after Hess?
                The British bombed Hamburg and Berlin. The Germans landed on Crete.
                Rommel smashed the British in Egypt. The British flooded Bismarck.
                The war between Britain and England was in full swing.
                And this is just before the German attack on the USSR.
                1. Bloodsucker
                  Bloodsucker 20 November 2016 19: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  The war between Britain and England was in full swing.

                  Well, yes, yes, kypzh was ... the language was milled. But what have the events in Africa up to 41 years old to do with it?
                  The Germans landed on Crete, fine, you know, well? And what prevented the Angles from holding Crete? Greece?
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  Rommel smashed the British in Egypt. The British flooded Bismarck.

                  Well, straight EPIC battles .. oasis here, a bunch of palm trees there ... epic drama ..
                2. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 20 November 2016 22: 19
                  0
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  And if you look at the dates of what happened in May 1941, after Hess?

                  "Strange War" - have you ever heard this term?
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 21 November 2016 11: 08
                    0
                    "Strange War" refers to 1939 - to the period since the Nazi attack
                    to Poland before the attack on France.
                    And we are discussing 1941 before the Nazi attack on the USSR.
                  2. alpamys
                    alpamys 21 November 2016 14: 04
                    0
                    Quote: KaPToC
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    And if you look at the dates of what happened in May 1941, after Hess?

                    "Strange War" - have you ever heard this term?

                    why is it strange? the Poles in Danzig mocked the Germans, killed tens of thousands, Hitler did the right thing with the psheks.
          2. Yuyuka
            Yuyuka 21 November 2016 09: 13
            +1
            Did you want to? England was ready for war ....
            Oh, and it became funny to me ...


            you don’t need to laugh here ... the British were so ready for the war and confident in their victory that they gave everyone a head start - the azhnak entered the war in the 44th ... and they say the Russians harness for a long time laughing although they did not succeed in jumping quickly — the Russians asked for help when the Germans tapped them on the head — they didn’t know that England was ready for war ... And France, which also defeated the Germans, was especially cheerful! lol
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 21 November 2016 11: 05
              +1
              "that they gave everyone a head start - ajnak entered the war in 44th" ////

              Entered on September 3, 1939, declaring war on Germany. The war with Germany at sea began immediately. And military operations on land - after the German attack on France, where England had a small expeditionary force. After the surrender of France, he remained face to face against Germany. It defeated the Luftwaffe in the summer and autumn of 1940 and prevented German landing on its territory. Started a war against Italy and Germany in the Mediterranean.
              In the summer of 1941, at the request of Stalin, she began to help the USSR.
              1. inferno_nv
                inferno_nv 21 November 2016 16: 48
                +1
                And how did they help the USSR? Only about lendlization is not necessary, for this they received gold from the USSR !!! But what about the fact that Stalin asked Churchill to open a second front in 1941? How did they help already in 1944 landed in Normandy wassat and this despite the fact that their help was no longer needed practically !!! How do you answer that? Or keep silent again?
                1. Yuyuka
                  Yuyuka 21 November 2016 17: 16
                  +1
                  And how did they help the USSR? Only about lendlization is not necessary, for this they received gold from the USSR !!! But what about the fact that Stalin asked Churchill to open a second front in 1941? How did they help already in 1944 landed in Normandy wassat and this despite the fact that their help was no longer needed practically !!! How do you answer that? Or keep silent again?

                  they answered you! - one on one England fought a small expeditionary force and defeated the Luwaffe belay and in 1940 wassat after which the Germans fled from the formidable British to the East in defeated planes fool hell a little brains included the Slavic brothers of Israel ...
                  1. inferno_nv
                    inferno_nv 22 November 2016 18: 21
                    +1
                    Well, yes they answered, only the facts, as always, are zero! Although the Jew does not make sense to ask for facts!
              2. Bakht
                Bakht 21 November 2016 17: 21
                +1
                Oh, how can I resist ....? Every word is a blunder.

                On September 3, England entered not the Second World War, but the German-Polish War. Chamberlain’s stupidity by the way. What Churchill pointed out to him back in April 39th.
                Defeated the Luftwaffe - it was so bold that Air Vice-Marshal Park was forced to remark "we no longer have reserves."
                England helped the USSR at the request of Stalin? It seems to me that England OFFERED to help and Stalin did not refuse. It is necessary to follow the facts and turns of speech. And it turns out a lie.
                Yes, what about one-on-one? In the summer of 1940, German Germany demobilized the Wehrmacht. It seems that 100 or 150 thousand people were dismissed from the army. Oh, how difficult it was for the British.
                You do not know anything about the landing in Sicily. Already in the year 1943. Even Churchill could not stand the nerves. Such a letter dashed off to his woe-warriors that they had to move at least a little.
        2. esaul1950
          esaul1950 20 November 2016 17: 50
          0
          .... and were not going to ...
        3. Cro-Magnon
          Cro-Magnon 20 November 2016 20: 01
          0
          Not a single historian asks the question: why did the USSR need 30 thousand. tanks does not ask why Britain needed 100 large surface ships! You are now comparing a finger and you yourself know what ....
  17. alpamys
    alpamys 20 November 2016 13: 13
    +3
    wow, why not 150 million? To Stalin, the report was about the loss of military and civilian losses of 7 million, with Khrushchev 20 million, with a hunchback of 27, later 33-35, and now 50, how is it ???
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2016 15: 10
      +1
      The remains of the dead are still being found, and they will probably be found for another 100 years.
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 20 November 2016 22: 00
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        The remains of the dead are still being found, and they will probably be found for another 100 years.

        Do you really think that the numbers are growing due to excavations of the dead at the front?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 22 November 2016 00: 49
          0
          The numbers are growing and will continue to grow - including due to excavations.
  18. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 20 November 2016 13: 41
    +4
    Such calculations of the unborn remind me of the calculation of the "damage" of the Baltic states from the "Soviet occupation".
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2016 15: 13
      +2
      You can answer by calculating the "damage" - the infusion of funds into the Baltic states - during the "Soviet occupation"
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Stegosaurus Brontosaurus
    Stegosaurus Brontosaurus 20 November 2016 14: 06
    0
    Quote: STARPER
    We don’t get on our knees anyway ..


    Sounds disgusting. It's like two wrestlers in the ring, and one to the other: "I won't kneel before you." Threefold Fu!
    1. KaPToC
      KaPToC 20 November 2016 22: 21
      0
      Quote: Stegosaurus Brontosaurus
      That sounds disgusting.

      Yeah, the stripper anneals, sounds like the secret thoughts of a masochist.
  21. Shadow of darkness
    Shadow of darkness 20 November 2016 14: 19
    +5
    Debtors and sinners very quickly forget about their actions as soon as they receive forgiveness! Our leaders often forgive others debts, because they know that their people will compensate or tolerate them anyway. You didn’t have to forgive the indemnity, you see, and in the West they would cease to consider us savages.
  22. free
    free 20 November 2016 14: 41
    +1
    there was no 50 million canine bullshit, and liberals are already fasting their vysers
  23. Cat
    Cat 20 November 2016 14: 55
    +2
    Quote: Jewish chief

    It is commendable, but something tells me that the most talkative ones will be the first to go over to the side of the enemy, if he of course reaches the Southern Urals. wink

    I sincerely did not understand, and here the Southern Urals.
    And now for you "the chief of the Jews." Based on the foundations of dialectics, paying attention to the requirements of deduction, I want to ask a rhetorical question? Who knows the Jew best? The answer is obvious - JEW. and not just a Jew, but a CHIEF JEW. Sits high, sees far. We continue, and who is our main Jewry? Is it really h .... under the nickname "chief of Jews." Based on the general logic and folk ingenuity, no! And apparently GOD "Jesus". And what are we for VO readers to do, to fall to the ground of the highest rank, in the rank of "junior sergeant", hiding not only his place of residence, but also his name. Moreover, the one who risked offending not only the South Urals, but the Urals as a whole, and in the end all the Russians who cannot think of Russia without the Urals.
    Sometimes I regret that the cons are canceled. And I advise the "goat", if you are going to get out of the Moscow Ring Road, think twice about God.
  24. BISMARCK94
    BISMARCK94 20 November 2016 15: 08
    +1
    I have no doubt that the losses of the USSR were colossal in that war, but can there be evidence? What did you think you studied?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 20 November 2016 16: 28
      +2
      It's amazing to read that. Everything has been calculated long ago and it is known who studied. You can type in Google: doctoral and candidate dissertations on losses in the Second World War ... And everything is there! With links to archives, including the MO archive. For example, data from a doctoral dissertation defended in 2011 in Mayopa ... "Military researchers estimated the total losses of the civilian population of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War at 13,7 million people, including 7,4 million people deliberately exterminated by the invaders in the captured territory, 4,1 million people died and died from the harsh conditions of the occupation regime, 2,1 million people died in forced labor in Germany (out of 5,3 million "ostovites"). 4,6 million Soviet prisoners of war were held captive , of which only 1,8 million people returned to their homeland. However, the civilian population also suffered heavy losses from the hostilities in the front-line areas, besieged and besieged cities. " There are also some regions ... It's just that ignorance is in our blood. Science in one place BLA-BLA in another!
      1. Cat
        Cat 20 November 2016 18: 17
        +6
        V. Medinsky has 10 million losses among the soldiers of the Red Army out of 27 million losses of the entire population of the country. Thus, there are 1 civilians per 2 soldier. Losses of Germany, according to various estimates, are 7-10 million, of which about 6 are military personnel, yet 1-2 civilians fall per 3 civilian. If we take the losses of prisoners of war from both sides, then every 5th returned from German captivity alive, 4 out of 5 from Soviet.
        Conclusion. The German army and its allies were engaged in the extermination of the population in the occupied territories, for another "genocide".
        Comparing the military losses of military personnel, let’s add here 1 million partisans, there will be about 6-8 million people, which is relatively equal to 5-6 (without Volkssturm and allies) German losses. Worse things were only in China, where the Japanese from 31 to 45 years slaughtered 35 million people, of which only 4-5 million military losses among the military.
        Well, the last USSR in 41 ran into a warring army of victors mobilized for two years, conquering half of Europe. With Germany came the Finns, Romanians, Hungarians, Slovaks, Croats. Separate parts of the Spaniards, Italians, French, Dutch, Norwegians, Danes. On the side of the fascists our traitors, Ukrainians, Georgians, Crimean Tatars, and others fought. But despite all our grandfathers and great-grandfathers stood up and won. In their campaign to the west, the Red Army liberated 12 states. And that is the point.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2016 08: 41
          0
          Yes you are right. The Waffen SS divisions alone were the 15 + Cossack Corps of Krasnov. Georgian Legion, Armenian, Legion of the Peoples of the East. By the way, there is a dissertation about this, where everything is calculated. Up to how many English were in the battalion of St. George and Indians in the battalion of Frey India.
  25. PValery53
    PValery53 20 November 2016 16: 06
    +1
    The stolen Victory of the Soviet Union must be returned - with the appropriate "organizational conclusions" for the Europeans. Now - with full "cost recovery" ...
  26. esaul1950
    esaul1950 20 November 2016 17: 47
    +1
    Quote: Hupfri
    . Indicate their losses, Mr. liar and hypocrite. Or maybe just an ignoramus.

    Is it true that it hurts your eyes and your ear hurts? In the 41st summer, we had 5 million. And in December of the 41st, there were also 4-5 million under arms. And they called for 14 million over this period. So where did they go?
    In Leningrad alone, a million people died of starvation

    Well, you are a mathematician! Goebbels rests verfluchte blending.
  27. chenia
    chenia 20 November 2016 19: 31
    +1
    From damn math from prosecutors.
    And just to increase the annual growth over 4 years (about 3 million, thanks to Stalin, forbade abortion), add to 196.8 million and take away 170 million.
    And there will be no more than 40 million (or even 38-39 and all).

    Take away the unborn - (and it was believed that the birth rate fell by half, i.e., zero growth). Then the losses will already be 27 million.
    subtract emigration-3 -4 million
    That's 23-24 million direct losses (specific people are victims of the war).
    On to say that somehow the birth rate was too high, the fall was only twice (while there were so many men in the army.) And if you take
    this is 2-3 million. That figure is 20 million more acceptable.
    Mixed losses must also be taken into account - a person had to die a natural death tomorrow, but was killed today.
    1. Operator
      Operator 20 November 2016 21: 43
      +1
      Alexander Zvyagintsev holds a warm position as vice president of the International Association of Prosecutors.

      If tomorrow international sponsors will double his salary, then the USSR’s losses in WWII sucked from a finger will immediately increase to 100 million people.
  28. skeptic31
    skeptic31 20 November 2016 21: 14
    +1
    Why not 100 million? Consider it so. In the sense of drawing, so to draw. They love big numbers. Tens of millions perished in Civil. In the "famine" as much. Then the "Stalinist repression" and several tens of millions more. And here in the Great Patriotic War another 50 million. Poor demographers clutch their heads. Meanwhile, for those especially concerned, the official 27 million is already taking into account indirect losses. The question is, how will they relate to our historical science abroad, after such statements?
    1. Operator
      Operator 20 November 2016 21: 57
      +1
      As the examples of Zvyagintsev and Poklonskaya show, prosecutors and historical science are two big differences laughing
  29. Operator
    Operator 20 November 2016 22: 25
    0
    Cat Man Null,
    Will you be from the "chosen ones"?
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 20 November 2016 22: 26
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Will you be from the "chosen ones"?

      - for what purpose are you interested in? wink
      1. Operator
        Operator 20 November 2016 22: 48
        0
        In order to verify identity.

        Lead designer of the MiG-15, MiG-17 and MiG-21 - A.G. Brunov, MiG-23 - A.A. Andreev, MiG-25 - B.N. Kornev, MiG-29 - M.R. Waldenberg.

        And now share your innermost knowledge, which of them was Armenian Mikoyan, and who was Jewish Gurevich? laughing
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 20 November 2016 22: 57
          0
          Quote: Operator
          Now share your innermost knowledge ...

          - Well, why should I share my secret with you ... you are nobody to me, with all due respect ...
          - everything is just like an orange: whose KB? Mikoyan? Well, that's enough ... laughing
          - I’ll notice the campaign that the Russian Federation is also that ... multinational.
          - and to say that "this was created by the Russians, and all the others did not even stand nearby" means to drive wedges into the very structure of the State
          - in my opinion, it is worth checking you ... and the FSB, for example, for the presence in your statements of signs of a crime under Art. 282 of the Criminal Code. No? wink
          1. Operator
            Operator 20 November 2016 23: 09
            +1
            And I, argued that the Jews are not genetically adapted to the design of tanks and aircraft?

            The Russian Federation, unlike the USSR, is a mono-ethnic state, despite the multinationality of minorities. Consciously belittling the contribution of the titular nation to the history of the Russian Federation - this is driving a wedge into the very foundation of the Russian state.

            Interestingly, the repeated statement about the non-Russianness of the T-34 fits under the article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation?
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 20 November 2016 23: 12
              0
              Quote: Operator
              Interestingly, the repeated statement about the non-Russianness of the T-34 fits under the article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation?

              - not suitable request
              - the tank was created in the Soviet Union (and not in the Russian Federation), by Soviet people, therefore tank - soviet.
              - you can prove the opposite - forward. No - keep quiet better, pass for smart yes
              1. Operator
                Operator 20 November 2016 23: 19
                0
                T-34 was created in Russia, is that clear?

                As for keeping quiet - rewind, you're not on the Israeli site.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 20 November 2016 23: 25
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  T-34 was created in Russia, is that clear?

                  Quote: Anecdote (adapted)
                  If a person is bitten by a vampire, he inevitably becomes a vampire.
                  There is an impression that someone was bitten here rams...


                  Quote: Operator
                  ... you are not on an Israeli site ...

                  - thanks, I'm in the know ... rotznase laughing
        2. MaksoMelan
          MaksoMelan 21 November 2016 20: 17
          0
          Walderberg is an original Russian name.
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 21 November 2016 20: 39
            0
            Quote: MaksoMelan
            Walderberg is an original Russian name.

            And, for example, Sikorsky is truly American?
            1. Operator
              Operator 21 November 2016 21: 39
              0
              Thank God that is not Armenian / Jewish laughing
  30. Retvizan
    Retvizan 20 November 2016 22: 37
    +2
    The game of numbers is a favorite pastime of people. It causes heated discussions ..
    I will not bring any numbers into the furnace of the dispute about numbers ...
    Thanks to the Soviet people, Thanks to the entire anti-Hitler coalition for the Great Victory! Its price was great ...
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 22 November 2016 12: 15
      0
      how many future academics died, and their place was taken by Korotichs!
  31. Cat man null
    Cat man null 20 November 2016 23: 06
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    Cat Man Null is covered in matzah from head to toe - he has no time to figure out how many Tatars were in the design bureau and production workshops of Kharkov plant No. 183 in 1937-40.

    - I did not insult you. Till wink
    - I really have no time to figure it out. As, however, to you
    - you cannot refute my arguments ... well, and be silent already in a rag then ... the essence of the Internet yes
  32. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 20 November 2016 23: 19
    +1
    Yes, there were terrible losses in that war. 50 million. This was a tragedy in every home.
    And even more terrible is the day today, when people are in power who declare: "It's okay if 20 million do not fit into the market" and did not fit. Without war, in peacetime.
    It’s scary that today the country is bending westward: peppy reports from the government, investors will come. And what are investors, those who pay money to company owners, and people will return many times over for years. Even funnier when Gazprom is building pipelines, and the west does not allow gas to be transported through them, probably the West will also pay extra for the delivered gas.
    I am ashamed on May 9, for today's citizens of the country, we betrayed them, those who defended that Victory with blood, became a colony of the West without war. In the 90s, public property was given to a group of people, and today's rulers of the country get rid of the remnants of the remnants of state property.
  33. Navy7981
    Navy7981 21 November 2016 01: 48
    +1
    50 million! 50 million including indirect losses! So I was mistaken in the conversation, proving that the domestic war took away 100 million from us. 200 million were not born in the future. Now we should have about 350-400 million! And if, according to the theory of Mendelev, who was definitely smarter than me, then 600 million. And are these democratic homosexuals, failed killers of my country, trying to teach us something?
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 21 November 2016 02: 04
      0
      In WWII, much less died. The Trotskyists win these 50 million, as well as overstate the losses in the WWII. This is done in order to hide the losses of the Russian people in the Red Terror.
  34. YurokR
    YurokR 21 November 2016 03: 18
    0
    Quote: vovanpain
    but we remember- Who is the real winner and who suffered the most terrible losses in that war

    This is what saddens what only we remember. After all, if the rest of the world forgets the history of the Second World War, then it can be repeated again. But only its outcome can be catastrophic for many peoples of the world at least, and for all mankind as a maximum. sad
  35. Altona
    Altona 21 November 2016 08: 03
    0
    Quote: Chief of the Jews
    No anti-Semitism is an Armenian-Jewish plane.

    ------------------------------
    And Joseph Kotin and Isaac Zaltsman actually led the production of Russian tanks in Chelyabinsk, if anyone does not know. Yandex to help ... lol
  36. alexej123
    alexej123 21 November 2016 08: 28
    0
    Operator,
    Andrey, then it turns out that the "Russian" troops were led by a Georgian?
    I agree with Roman (Cat Manul). In the appendage, I don’t remember where I learned such a fact as Stalin’s toast to the Russian people. One single time after the Victory. This suggests that the people were not divided according to nationalities, but was a single Soviet. Panfilov’s division was formed in Kazakhstan. Kazakhs saved Moscow?
  37. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 21 November 2016 14: 48
    +1
    1. Victory in a war cannot be "stolen". The children of the winners may lose the result, but it is impossible to steal the victory.
    2. Unborn children should not be considered a demographic loss in the war. Fertility is falling even more in peacetime and in the developed countries themselves. If unborn children are counted only in Germany, England and France after the war, they will be much more than 100 million.
    3. How many people lost only India or the entire British community or China as additional mortality due to the war? The largest relative demographic losses in Europe were suffered by Poland (20% of the population), of course, not counting unborn children. They have the largest military to civilian casualties ratio of 60 thousand to 6 million (1: 100). The USSR has a ratio of approximately 1: 1.
    4. Military art is shown by irretrievable military losses (dead, captured, including as a result of surrender), and not demographic losses. These losses of Germany and its allies on the Eastern Front are greater than the losses of the USSR.
    5. Germany could not beat beat small blood and very easily beat the war to lose (as the rest of Europe lost it). A defeat for the peoples of the USSR meant only a direct demographic loss of about 100 million (see Poland). Victory saved the lives of approximately 80 million Soviet citizens in the direct sense of the word. This victory result cannot be taken away or stolen.
  38. 1536
    1536 21 November 2016 15: 14
    0
    Yes, it always has been, throughout the history of Russia, from the very 862 year. It is unlikely that this can be done. This is our feature. Release someone, help, and then leave in the hope of gratitude. And when instead of gratitude we get Ukraine or Poland, then we begin to bite our elbows. But it's' too late. Close elbow, but not a bite. Not an accidental, in my opinion, proverb.
    There is a good American movie called Life of Pi, where a boy is on a raft in the open ocean alone with a tiger. The boy kept hoping that the tiger would be imbued with respect and gratitude to him, but he simply wanted to eat. It is high time for all of us to look at what is happening around us not through the eyes of a boy who loves animals, but through the eyes of experienced hunter-rangers who maintain a balance in forest lands or ocean expanses.
  39. MaksoMelan
    MaksoMelan 21 November 2016 20: 12
    0
    The Nuremberg trebunal had to be carried out in the USSR in Leningrad or Stalingrad. And so that all visitors saw what it was worth to defend the city. And to journalists and politicians. And so that it was heard on their chronicles.