Multipurpose portable missile system "Xu Jiang" (China)

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The defense industry of various countries regularly presents new developments in the field of missile systems of various classes. Much attention is paid to the means of combat land or aviation enemy technique. The creation of such weapons is associated with certain difficulties and some specific requirements. In particular, it is necessary to minimize the size and weight of the missile system, as well as reduce its cost. At the recent Airshow China 2016 in Zhuhai, Chinese industry unveiled a new version of this weapons, called "Xu Jiang."

It is reported that a promising multipurpose portable missile system was created by the organization of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) on its own initiative, without any order from the armed forces of China or other countries. The goal of the Xiu Jiang project, also referred to as the Hidden Blade, was to create a promising portable missile system suitable for combating various targets. Declared the possibility of destruction of fixed ground objects, cars or lightly armored vehicles. In addition, there is the possibility of attack and defeat low-flying aircraft, helicopters and unmanned aerial vehicles. The possibility of using a new missile as a weapon for unmanned aerial vehicles is not excluded.




General view of the complex "Xu Jiang". Janes.com Photos


The new missile system is proposed for infantry weapons or special units that require light and powerful weapons that can hit a wide range of targets. All elements of the complex must be transported by the forces of calculation, which imposes special requirements on dimensions and mass. Also required to reduce the time required to transfer the system to the combat position. Requirements for combat qualities and dimensions of the product led to the formation of the original appearance of the complex.

The Hidden Blade system is divided into two main components: the launcher and the rocket. The project involves the use of a reusable light launcher, which includes all the necessary devices to search for targets, preliminary missile guidance and launch. The rocket, in turn, is a guided munition with characteristics sufficient to perform the assigned tasks.

It is proposed to launch a rocket using an easy launcher designed specifically for it. In order to maximize the weight of the structure, the starting device is made of plastic and has a fairly simple design. An important feature of the launcher is the possibility of its repeated use. To carry out a new attack, the calculation of the complex should be placed inside the launch "pipe" of a new rocket and perform a number of other procedures. This architecture of the missile system allows reducing the total mass of the entire system and ammunition carried by the fighters.

The main element of the launcher is a tubular guide for the rocket. Like other units of the installation, it is made of plastic. The length of the pipe is about 700-800 mm, the internal diameter is 60 mm. In front of the pipe provides a large influx, through which it connects with other devices launcher. A large unit is installed on the mountings, which holds all the necessary parts and assemblies. On the large front of this unit, a U-shaped design with two vertical handles is provided to control the weapon. In the rear there are attachments for the sight and shoulder rest, improving the ergonomics of the weapon.

Missile launch control is carried out using a trigger mounted on the rear of the vertical handle. Above it has a large button, which, apparently, is responsible for the exclusion of unauthorized start. The second handle of the front block of the launcher is designed to more easily hold the weapon. The type of trigger and launch control system was not specified. Probably, we are talking about electrical devices that command the main devices of the rocket.

On the left surface of the launcher has a bracket to install the sight. With the help of the latter, the operator of the complex must find the target and produce the initial guidance of the rocket. The specific type of sight is not indicated, however, to solve the tasks assigned, an optical system with parameters that allow searching for targets in the entire range of firing ranges can be used.

The main element of the Xiu Jiang complex, which is directly responsible for hitting the target, is the eponymous guided missile, characterized by its small size and weight. The total length of the ammunition is only 690 mm, caliber - 60 mm. Rocket weight in combat status - 4 kg. Despite the small size, the rocket proposed by the Chinese specialists should have a sufficiently high efficiency in dealing with various targets.

The rocket of the Xu Jiang complex received a cylindrical body with a diameter of 40 mm, equipped with an ogival head with a straight front cut. In the tail part of the body there is a small area of ​​reduced diameter, which is connected to the main unit using a conical “adapter”. This form of the tail section of the hull is associated with the need to install a feather that increases the flight data of the rocket.

The product received two sets of planes. In the central part there are steering wheels made in the form of rectangular plates. The handlebars are hinged, on thin racks. Due to this design in the transport position, the rudders are placed in the corresponding slots of the body. After exiting the launcher, they unfold by turning back, forming an X-shaped system. In the narrowed tail part of the body are fasteners for the four planes of the stabilizer. They have a trapezoidal shape and are mounted on spring-loaded hinges. In the transport position, the stabilizer planes are stacked on the body, which has led to the need to reduce its cross section.

The characteristic appearance of the rocket, presented at the recent exhibition Airshow China 2016, allows you to build some assumptions about the new product. Thus, the central compartment of the hull, in contrast to other units, received a color, which can be used as a marking type of ammunition. Known information about the project "Hidden Blade" also provide an opportunity to determine the possible layout of the rocket. The head compartment should be given under the guidance equipment, behind which the warhead is placed. The central part of the body obviously accommodates the steering cars, while the entire tail volume is given for the placement of the engine.

A relatively simple and cheap photoelectric homing head was developed to target a missile at a target. In the front section of the head fairing there is a transparent window through which the light must come to the sensitive element of the guidance system. According to reports, the used homing head before launching should “memorize” the chosen target, distinguishing it against the background of other objects and the surrounding terrain. Further, processing the information arriving through photo cells, automatic equipment should issue commands to the steering cars and take the rocket to the target.

Similar principles of missile targeting have several advantages over other homing heads. In particular, the rocket cannot be reduced from the correct trajectory using electronic warfare or some other counteraction systems. At the same time, the photoelectric method of tracking a target has significant drawbacks in the form of the difficulty of maintaining tracking in various conditions. Thus, the complex terrain with a large number of contrasting objects can "confuse" the homing head, because of which the rocket will not be able to continue correct targeting to the target, disrupting the attack.

The type of warhead of the Xu Jiang missile has not yet been specified by the development organization, which is why one can only speculate on this point. The range of combat missions defined by the Chinese specialists, as well as the types of targets to be hit, suggests the use of a high-explosive or similar warhead. At the same time, the total mass of the product does not allow one to rely on a large explosive charge capable of destroying well-protected targets.

The tail section of the hull accommodates a solid-fuel engine, which provides for acceleration of the product to the required speeds and a flight to a specified range. For the initial acceleration and withdrawal of the rocket from the launcher guide, and then for the controlled flight to the target, the same engine is used, performing the functions of both the launch and the cruise.

It is argued that with the help of the existing power plant, the Hidden Blade rocket will be able to hit targets at ranges of at least 150 m. When firing at ground targets, the maximum range is determined at the level of 3 km. By air - 2 km. The use of a missile system as a weapon for a UAV can significantly improve the firing range. Due to launching from a certain height and, consequently, more efficient use of solid fuel energy, it is possible to hit targets at distances up to 5 km from the launch point.

In the basic configuration, involving the use of the launcher and missiles, the "Xu Jian" complex can become a weapon for infantry units, as well as special operations forces. Representatives of the company CASC argue that such weapons can be a good "surprise" for an opponent who does not expect a serious response. Thanks to such weapons, any small unit can strike either on manpower or unarmored vehicles, or on armored vehicles or low-altitude aircraft. Small size and weight of the complex will facilitate its transportation and thus have some impact on the overall efficiency of the application.

Multipurpose portable missile system "Xu Jiang" (China)
Rocket close up. Photo Fyjs.cn


It is alleged that in the near future a new modification of the Hidden Blade, designed to arm unmanned aerial vehicles, may appear. Apparently, the main difference between such a weapon will be a different layout of the launcher, devoid of sights and other units necessary for the use of the complex by a person. The development of such a complex will increase the number of shock drones due to the corresponding modernization of light and medium class equipment. Rockets weighing 4 kg each can be light, but quite effective weapons.

It is reported that the project Xiu Jiang already out of the early stages and came close to the beginning of mass production. Back at the beginning of 2016, experts from the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation conducted tests of the missile complex, which showed its capabilities. By now, the checks and fine-tuning of the system have been completed. The industry is ready to begin mass production of missiles and launchers for them at any time. To start production, only a supply contract is required: when it appears, production will start as soon as possible.

Further prospects of the original multifunctional missile system are still in question. The project "Xu Jiang" was created by CASC corporation on its own initiative and without order of the military, which can have a noticeable effect on its future fate. The absence of an order underlying the project indicates that the Chinese armed forces are not showing interest in such weapons systems. If the People’s Liberation Army of China considered light missile systems to be necessary, the industry would have received an order to create them. Thus, the army, apparently, does not intend to purchase serial samples, which seriously worsens the possible future of the project.

However, the Xiu Jiang / Hidden Blade complex may be of interest to foreign armies. The stated capabilities of this system make it possible to consider it an effective means of increasing the firepower of infantry and other units, which should attract the attention of potential customers. Guided missile "Xu Jiang" can be a good replacement for existing rocket launchers and disposable anti-tank grenades. With similar ease of use, a complex with a guided missile can be a much more effective means of combating various targets. Even with certain limitations on performance, a rocket with a photoelectric guidance system should have significant advantages over common samples of unguided weapons.

The Xi Jiang multipurpose portable missile system was first demonstrated to specialists and potential customers just a few days ago. Because of this, potential buyers of such weapons, being the “target audience” of the first show, could not yet decide their opinion about the new Chinese design. Having received all the necessary information, the armies of foreign countries will be able to evaluate the complex and draw conclusions about its necessity. After that, the first orders for the supply of weapons may appear, but so far no information has been received on negotiations on a possible contract. Perhaps the first export contracts will be known in the next few months.


On the materials of the sites:
http://janes.com/
http://en.c4defence.com/
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
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  1. +4
    8 November 2016 06: 53
    Declared the possibility of destruction of fixed ground objects, cars or lightly armored vehicles. In addition, there is the possibility of attack and destruction of low-flying aircraft, helicopters and unmanned aerial vehicles.
    Very interesting. But since some serious characteristics are not given, I can offer our cheaper analogue, able to do the same, and even destroy heavily armored targets ...
    This is an RPG-7V
    1. +5
      8 November 2016 07: 02
      Quote: svp67
      I can offer our cheaper analogue

      Our analogue is, rather, "Boer".
      1. +4
        8 November 2016 07: 28
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Our analogue is, rather, "Boer".

        there is still a difference between them.
        To direct the missile at the target, a relatively simple and cheap photoelectric homing head was developed.
        tests will show how this will affect efficiency.
        1. +3
          8 November 2016 07: 30
          Quote: kashtak
          there is still a difference between them.

          Well, this is understandable, as in the declared performance characteristics.
          1. +8
            8 November 2016 09: 51
            Quote: Vladimirets
            our cheaper analogue, capable of doing the same thing, and even destroy heavily armored targets ..

            Truth? RPG at a distance of 3000 m? Homing over a maneuvering target?
            1. +1
              8 November 2016 12: 10
              And why such a range for such a weak firearm?
              Generally a dead end branch of development ....

              At the moment, I personally consider SAAB the leader in the field of creating "pocket artillery" at the level of the rifle squad.

              Here, for example, is practically an analogue of this Chinese "miracle" - NLAW. Let there be only 600 meters the maximum range. But the complex is both cheaper, and is quite capable of hitting MBT with reactive armor, and can be used from a closed volume
              1. +2
                8 November 2016 12: 29
                Quote: Spade
                And why such a range for such a weak firearm?

                Suppression of enemy firing points. The same militia on Toyota with the DShK. Approximately the same application as that of Javelin in Afghanistan.

                Quote: Spade
                Generally a dead end branch of development ....

                Well I do not know. request

                Quote: Spade
                Here, for example, is practically an analogue of this Chinese "miracle" - NLAW. Let there be only 600 meters the maximum range. But the complex is both cheaper, and is quite capable of hitting MBT with reactive armor, and can be used from a closed volume

                A good grenade launcher, but ... there is no GOS in it, and, accordingly, no homing itself, it does not make a slide, but only 600 meters.
                1. +2
                  8 November 2016 12: 55
                  Quote: professor
                  Suppression of enemy firing points. The same militia on Toyota with the DShK.

                  That is, initially purely anti-Papuan weapons? Without prospects of use against a normal opponent?

                  Quote: professor
                  A good grenade launcher, but ... there is no GOS in it, and, accordingly, no homing itself, it does not make a slide, but only 600 meters.

                  This is not a grenade launcher- a missile controlled throughout the flight path. And there’s no reason for her to make the slide, she hits the target from above on the span.
                  1. +4
                    8 November 2016 14: 19
                    Quote: Spade
                    That is, initially purely anti-Papuan weapons? Without prospects of use against a normal opponent?

                    which adversary do you call normal? remind how many times "white people" were burned on "Papuans"? no need to get excited.
                    Quote: Spade
                    This is not a grenade launcher- a missile controlled throughout the flight path. And there’s no reason for her to make the slide, she hits the target from above on the span.

                    the logic of the developers is clear. the missile is more accurate and long-range than RPGs and cheaper and more compact than ATGM. IMHO the question is only in the combat capabilities of warheads. and is the range of 3000 not too high with such weight and size?
                    1. 0
                      8 November 2016 15: 13
                      Quote: kashtak
                      which adversary do you call normal? remind how many times "white people" were burned on "Papuans"? no need to get excited.

                      The point is that most of the world's armies simply do not have the means to simultaneously prepare for war with both the “Papuans” and a normal, technologically advanced enemy.

                      Quote: kashtak
                      the logic of the developers is clear. the missile is more accurate and long-range than RPGs and cheaper and more compact than ATGM. IMHO the question is only in the combat capabilities of warheads. and is the range of 3000 not too high with such weight and size?

                      But no ... The cost of this firearm will be almost the same as the cost of the classic third-generation ATGMs. The gain is only in the cost of the GOS at the cost of reducing combat effectiveness and in the cost of a rocket engine at the cost of reducing the weight of warheads, and, as a result, the power of the ammunition's effect on the target
              2. 0
                8 November 2016 13: 31
                NLAW- managed rocket operator (by wire), and Xiu Jiang / Hidden Blade / "Hidden blade" - homing rocket (shot-forgot). As the saying goes, feel the difference.

                Moreover, they are in different weight categories: NLAW weighs 12 kg, and Xiu Jiang 4 kg. Therefore, the first serves to combat tanks and pillboxes, and the second - with armored personnel carriers and open firing points. But this does not mean that in a year Xiu Jiang 2 weighing 12 kg will not appear, then Xiu Jiang 3 weighing 36 kg, etc.

                Therefore, all sorts of Tou, Javelins and Cornets will also be written off after various RPGs.

                But the chip of the missiles homing on the target’s image is completely different - they don’t need the operator to see the target, so you can shoot from Xiu Jiang not only in direct line of sight, but also from a closed position on the mortar along the most advantageous ballistic trajectory - that’s where its range to 3 km and the ability to hit targets behind obstacles and in shelters such as trenches. At the same time, the CVO of the Xiu Jiang optical homing missile can be estimated within a meter. One missile replaces dozens of 81 / 82 mm caliber mines used to suppress a firing point in a trench.

                We can assume that Xiu Jiang and its promising modifications put an end to the plans of the American, Russian and other Defense Forces for the development of barrel artillery. Now the only weapons of the god of war will be homing missiles - hand-held, portable, wheeled (such as Grad / Tornado) and tracked (such as Solntsepek / MLRS).

                The same thing will happen with missiles / gliding bombs launched from attack UAVs, helicopters and airplanes.

                The Chinese, for the first time since their invention of gunpowder and rockets, prevailed over the Europeans, and at the same time over the Americans and Asians (represented by the Israelis), who are still at the stage of guiding missiles with the help of an operator.
                1. +1
                  8 November 2016 13: 49
                  Quote: Operator
                  NLAW - operator-controlled rocket (wired)

                  Hello, we arrived .... Which operator, which wires?
                  NLAW refers to anti-tank guided weapons based on the fire-and-forget principle. But at the same time, it does not have any GOS at all.

                  Quote: Operator
                  One rocket replaces dozens of mines of 81/82 mm caliber

                  One missile is trying to replace one 81-mm mine with INS / ZhPS guidance. At the same time, the probability of hitting a target of the "infantry in a trench" type with this mine is an order of magnitude higher due to the peculiarities of the trajectory

                  Quote: Operator
                  We can assume that Xiu Jiang and its promising modifications put an end to the plans of the American, Russian and other Defense Forces for the development of barrel artillery.

                  The installation spare part includes an operator protected from a close gap art. shell / mines? 8))))))))))))))))

                  Quote: Operator
                  but also from a closed mortar position

                  eight))))))))))))))))))
                  Before starting, the operator must as carefully as possible present the target that is to hit ???
                  eight)))))))))))))))))
                  The Chinese miracle installation is the purest representative of the Line Of Sight Launch System family. Don't confuse it with Israeli Spikes. I saw - captured the target - launch. And nothing else.
                  1. 0
                    8 November 2016 14: 20
                    You are behind the times - NLAW-2 is wired.

                    The trajectory of the mounted flight of Xiu Jiang is no worse than the flight trajectory of an 81/82-mm mine. At the same time, the mine cannot fly on the ground, and its "launcher" weighs 10 times more than the Xiu Jiang launcher.

                    I missed something - have they already included a reserve calculation in the mortar spare parts? laughing

                    The operator Xiu Jiang can get the coordinates of the target, for example, a mortar in a closed position, from the anti-gun radar, the operator will deploy the launcher towards the target, the ballistic launcher of the launcher will give the optimal elevation angle of the guide, after which the missile will fly along a hinged path and homing at the target when approaching it .

                    Israel smokes bamboo with its naked Spikes.
                    1. +1
                      8 November 2016 14: 59
                      Quote: Operator
                      You are behind the times - NLAW-2 is wired.

                      I am afraid that even the NLAW manufacturers themselves are "behind the times". Go to the SAAB website 8)))))



                      Quote: Operator
                      The operator Xiu Jiang can get the coordinates of the target, for example, a mortar in a closed position, from the anti-gun radar, the operator will deploy the launcher towards the target, the ballistic launcher of the launcher will give the optimal elevation angle of the guide, after which the missile will fly along a hinged path and homing at the target when approaching it .

                      It seems that you decided not to read the article under which you post ....
                      1. 0
                        8 November 2016 15: 56
                        I agree, got excited - NLAW does not have a second modification (unlike the other Swedish RPG Bill-2, which I mistakenly had in mind).

                        The NLAW guidance system is designated by the manufacturer as the Predicted Line of Sight - a pre-calculated aiming line, i.e. ballistic launcher calculator based on the distance to the target and its speed determines the horizontal and vertical aiming of the launcher, which is carried out manually by the operator, after which a shot is fired.

                        When approaching the target, non-contact magnetic and optical grenade sensors fire.

                        Compared to Chinese Xiu Jiang, Swedish NLAW and Bill are kindergartens.
                2. +4
                  8 November 2016 13: 50
                  Quote: Operator
                  But the chip of the missiles homing on the target’s image is completely different - they don’t need the operator to see the target, so you can shoot from Xiu Jiang not only within direct line of sight, but also from a closed position on the mortar along the most advantageous ballistic trajectory - that’s where it has a range of up to 3 km and the ability to hit targets behind obstacles and in shelters such as trenches.

                  I recognize a major specialist. How do you think this rocket became NLOS? How can the operator direct it after launch, or do you think its GOS possesses the intelligence to select the target itself? Maybe this is the notorious 4th generation in the flesh? fool
                  Teach materiel.

                  Quote: Operator
                  The Chinese, for the first time since their invention of gunpowder and rockets, prevailed over the Europeans, and at the same time over the Americans and Asians (represented by the Israelis), who are still at the stage of guiding missiles with the help of an operator.

                  1. 0
                    8 November 2016 14: 31
                    Thank you, of course, for your picture, but this, really, is superfluous.

                    You correctly understood the second time that the article is written in black and white (though in a foreign language for you) - yes, Xiu Jiang is aimed at the image of the target, just like your smartphone recognizes in the frame not only a human face, but also a smile on face.

                    Surprise am
                    1. +1
                      8 November 2016 14: 51
                      Quote: Operator
                      You correctly understood the second time that the article is written in black and white (though in a foreign language for you) - yes, Xiu Jiang is aimed at the image of the target, just like your smartphone recognizes in the frame not only a human face, but also a smile on face.

                      Do not believe it, but ... all ATGMs of the third generation, including the ancient Javelin and even more ancient Spike, are aimed "at the target image." In general, I am in this area of ​​professionalism. wink my thesis topic is "optical pattern recognition". So. The question to you as a specialist is valid:
                      do you think its GOS has the intelligence to choose the target?

                      PS
                      Let the Chinese first learn to automatically distinguish between the characters, and only then we will move on to the images. wink
                      1. 0
                        8 November 2016 15: 10
                        You are probably a baaaalsh specialist in optical pattern recognition if you put an equal sign between recognition a template image of a target embedded in the computer’s memory and an intelligent algorithm that allows the rocket itself select target.

                        You can familiarize yourself with the first approach on your smartphone (face and smile), the second approach is currently fantastic or, in other words, the topic of your dissertation.

                        PS More carefully with Russian-language terminology, professor, you are not the only one here.
                    2. 0
                      8 November 2016 15: 00
                      Quote: Operator
                      yes, Xiu Jiang is targeting

                      Where does he come from?
                      1. 0
                        8 November 2016 15: 19
                        A library of optical images of targets (silhouettes from different angles of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, vehicles, SUVs, mortar and artillery positions, firing points, ATGMs, head and chest silhouettes of snipers, machine gunners and grenade launchers, winged drones and quadcopters) is recorded in the memory of the Xiu launcher computer Jiang.

                        The operator of the launcher before launch makes the choice of the type of target to facilitate the operation of the GOS missile.
  2. +1
    8 November 2016 07: 28
    That will be tested in the war (God forbid!), Then we can talk about its qualities.
  3. +2
    8 November 2016 08: 27
    It is argued that in the near future a new modification of the “Hidden Blade”, intended for arming unmanned aerial vehicles, may appear.

    if in Singapore they managed to push a drone into a grenade from a grenade launcher, then why not ...

    Singapore company ST Kinetics presented its new invention - a 40-mm grenade SPARCS (Soldier Parachute Aerial Reconnaissance Camera System). Each of these grenades is equipped with a modern CMOS camera (complementary metal-oxide-semiconductor structure), which in real time can transmit images to any computerized receiver.
    According to information from a Singapore company, any wireless device that can catch a 2,4 GHz signal and works with software compatible with most modern operating systems can become a signal receiver from such a camera. In this case, the resulting image can be retransmitted to other portable devices.
    The novelty from the Singapore company ST Kinetics is interesting, first of all, because it allows to solve the tasks facing modern micro-pilots of a platoon level for much less money. The company's engineers modified the 40-mm grenades by installing portable video cameras in them. These 40-mm grenades are designed so that they can be launched from all types of grenade launchers, which are currently ubiquitous in the US military, as well as among special forces in the fight against civil unrest and the police.
    Unlike its conventional counterparts, these shells do not explode when in contact with the target. SPARCS shells must be launched to a height of the order of 150 meters, at this height a miniature parachute opens around the projectile and the all-round camera is activated. This camera is able to transmit the received image to the tactical shooter screen or to any other device equipped with a wireless signal receiver.
    According to representatives of the Singapore company, these spy shells are equipped with a camera that is able to provide a top-down view of a given surveillance zone. At the same time, the obtained images can be automatically stitched together, forming a complete picture and providing the observer with a wide view of the terrain from the air.
    These ammunition can also be used in areas with dense buildings, for example, in the city. Such spy shells are able to tell soldiers what is happening behind their shelters, on the roofs of nearby buildings and structures, in alleys and parks, providing better situational awareness of the military.
    Due to the utilitarian nature of the device, SPARCS video is not encrypted. The shell is engaged only in the transmission of video information, it does not save data. Therefore, in the case of the capture of the device by the enemy, it turns out to be useless for him. Moreover, since the projectile has a small radius of action (about 140 meters), it is very likely that during the landing of the projectile the enemy will already be located at a distance of fire.
    1. +1
      8 November 2016 09: 28
      Quote: PSih2097
      if in Singapore they managed to push a drone into a grenade from a grenade launcher, then why not ...

      Singapore, it’s kind of a free economic zone like Dubai (UAE), there are not many big companies from different countries there are opening, as it is now fashionable, STARTUPS.
      And the drone in the underbarrel grenade is not new. Previously, it was presented in South Africa.
    2. 0
      8 November 2016 12: 13
      This is not a drone. Video camera descending by parachute. With all the disadvantages arising from this.
  4. 0
    8 November 2016 09: 23
    Versatility is a tempting thing, but alas, practice shows that universal weapons do everything equally badly ... although modern technology - we will see what happens, but I think it will not work beyond the concept ..
  5. +1
    8 November 2016 09: 57
    in principle, the idea is not bad
  6. 0
    8 November 2016 10: 05
    "According to available data, the used seeker before launching must" remember "the selected target, highlighting it against the background of other objects and the surrounding area."
    As I understand it, a camouflaged target on earth will simply not be captured? And then what's the use of her?
    Or is the system trickier there?
  7. 0
    8 November 2016 10: 49
    Chinese Arctic fox 82-mm mortars, RPG-7, "Carl Gustav", "Buru", etc. am
    1. +2
      8 November 2016 11: 56
      Yeah 8))))
      To the 82/81 mortars, this fun little thing did not come close in its capabilities. Especially to the 81 mm, because we have 82 mm mortars clearly in the pen.
      RPG-7 and "Karl Gustav" by their versatility and power of action at the target also overtake this incomprehensible contraption.
      Well, "Bur" is a system of a completely different class and purpose.
      1. 0
        8 November 2016 13: 54
        The Xiu Jiang ammunition weighs 1 kg more, shoots 1 further and has a KVO 1 order better than a mine fired from an 81 / 82-mm mortar.

        At the same time, the Xiu Jiang launcher is 10 times lighter than this mortar.

        RPG-7, Carl Gustav and Bura grenades weigh the same 3,5-4 kg, but the range of an aimed shot from these grenade launchers is 20 times inferior to Xiu Jiang.

        In addition, all existing mortars cannot fire direct fire, like Xiu Jiang, and all existing grenade launchers cannot fire on a hinged path, like again Xiu Jiang.

        This is the full Chinese fox laughing
        1. +1
          8 November 2016 14: 50
          Quote: Operator
          The Xiu Jiang ammunition weighs 1 kg more, shoots 1 further and has a KVO 1 order better than a mine fired from an 81 / 82-mm mortar.

          Uh ...
          If we talk about 81 mortars, is 3000 meters per 1000 meters more than 5608 meters?
          If we talk about 82-mm mortars, is 3000 meters per 1000 meters more than 6000 meters?
          Some very, very funny arithmetic 8))))))))))))
          Not only that, even the 60 mm American company M224A1 shoots 500 meters further
          Materiel .....
          Well, to compare the weight of the mine with the weight of the rocket .... It's just enchanting.
          eight)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

          Quote: Operator
          has a quo 1 order better

          eight)))))))))))))))))))))))
          Geometry.

          Quote: Operator
          and all existing grenade launchers cannot shoot on a hinged path,

          But what about "Karl Gustav"?
          eight))))))))))))))))))))))))))

          In short, materiel, materiel and again materiel ....
          1. 0
            8 November 2016 16: 31
            The weight of the mine 3 kg, the weight of the rocket 4 kg, including RDTT 1 kg. All honestly.

            What is the KVO of the 81 / 82 mm mines when firing at a range of more than 3 km - by chance, not 100 meters?

            Any grenade launcher, not only "Karl Gustav", can shoot at an angle of 45 degrees at the will of the grenade launcher, but to hit a target smaller than a hectare - no.
            Do not explain what damage a fragmentation grenade weighing 3,2 kg can cause on an area of ​​one hectare?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          8 November 2016 16: 51
          Quote: Operator
          The Xiu Jiang ammunition weighs 1 kg more, shoots 1 further and has a KVO 1 order better than a mine fired from an 81 / 82-mm mortar.

          to say so, you must first find out the weight of the Xiu Jiang warhead and compare with the weight of the mine 3,1-4,5 kg. the weight of the entire rocket is 4 kg. the idea is interesting but the mortar is not a competitor, like the mortar to her. this is how to compare SVD and RMB.
    2. 0
      8 November 2016 14: 35
      Quote: Operator
      Chinese Arctic fox 82-mm mortars, RPG-7, "Carl Gustav", "Buru", etc. am

      they have different tasks. RPG is more powerful, mortar will take rate of fire. IMHO the task of the "Chinese Arctic fox" is unprotected or poorly protected firing points. or not? against snipers may help.
      1. 0
        8 November 2016 14: 55
        Power, that is, the weight of ammunition for Xiu Jiang, RPG-7, "Carl Gustav" and "Bura" is the same.

        Xiu Jiang is not required to shoot as fast as the 81 / 82 mm mortar, because only one Xiu Jiang missile is needed to hit the target instead of one or two dozen 81 / 82 mm mortars.

        Xiu Jiang is a versatile weapon, it will not only fall into the bunker embrasure of the bunker with flat fire (not to mention the firing position of a sniper or machine gunner), but it will also cover the mortar in a closed position with mounted fire, bring down a low-speed UAV type aircraft in the air, hit an IFV, APC , armored personnel carrier or car, befits a motor boat, etc.

        Homing on target, however.
        1. 0
          8 November 2016 16: 31
          Quote: Operator
          Homing on target, however.

          how much will homing help when firing at dispersed infantry? when firing at a tank? The TBG-7V warhead weighs more than the "hidden blade" entirely in the firing position. If the Chinese product confirms the effectiveness of the GOS, it will find its niche, but it will most likely be point targets like cars, armored personnel carriers, firing points or snipers. IMHO, too, should not rely too much on the high efficiency of the simplified GOS for helicopters, it's still not MANPADS, although practice will already show this. everyone has their own tasks. and to develop a station wagon for all this to develop a sieve for carrying water.
          1. 0
            8 November 2016 17: 00
            For Xiu Jiang, there is no concept of areal target, since the ammunition capacity is too small (4 kg). This rocket launcher is designed to guarantee the destruction of point targets in the ranks of the attacking or defending infantry - machine gunners, grenade launchers, snipers and command personnel.
            Four shots from Xiu Jiang - and only submachine gunners remained in the enemy’s squad.

            By the way, the RPG-7 with the radius of destruction of the most powerful thermobaric ammunition TBG-7в, equal to 10 meters, is also not intended to destroy dispersed infantry.

            Nothing prevents the extension of the Xiu Jiang rocket in order to increase its weight from 4 to 4,5 kg to the level of TBG-7в - naturally, with the associated drop in range (as well as the RPG-7).

            The first version of Xiu Jiang is not intended for helicopter operations due to the low flight speed of the rocket - about 200 m / s (at the level of 81 / 82-mm mines), which is sufficient only for low-speed UAVs. For helicopters, the development of the second version of Xiu Jiang weighing about 12 kg and the speed of 300-400 m / s is required, for tanks, the development of the third version weighing at least 24 kg (at the Cornet level).

            At the same time, only GOS missiles with homing on the optical image of the target will remain universal.
            1. 0
              8 November 2016 17: 52
              Quote: Operator
              For Xiu Jiang, there is no concept of areal target, since the ammunition capacity is too small (4 kg). This rocket launcher is designed to guarantee the destruction of point targets in the ranks of the attacking or defending infantry - machine gunners, grenade launchers, snipers and command personnel.
              this is exactly what I am explaining to you the broken hour. mortar for one purpose Xiu Jiang for others.
              Nothing prevents the extension of the Xiu Jiang rocket in order to increase its weight from 4 to 4,5 kg to the level of TBG-7в - naturally, with the associated drop in range (as well as the RPG-7).
              4 kg is the weight of the rocket, warhead weight is not more than 1 kg, maximum 1,5. There is no exact data in the article. it is impossible to increase to the equivalent with this caliber. then this sample will not cope with the destruction of bunkers or blockages. with an increase in weight up to 24 kg, ATGM will turn out mobility is lost. such already exist. the meaning of the article is in my opinion an easy inexpensive homing missile for a grenade launcher. and you yourself outlined its goals.
              1. 0
                8 November 2016 18: 16
                I’ve been explaining to you for an hour that Xiu Jiang is super effective in dealing with grenade launchers, machine gunners, snipers and commanders in an infantry chain, which is quite enough to repulse an attack. Throwing a pounding cloud of mines over the area according to the principle of "maybe it will catch someone" is a method that is 75 years old.

                Xiu Jiang does not need to destroy the pillbox, he will just kill his garrison, falling into the embrasure. Once again - Xiu Jiang is at the same time a complete analogue of the 82-mm mortar and RPG-7 despite the fact that it uses its ammunition much more economically to carry out the same combat mission (in its own way).

                Therefore, Xiu Jiang definitely can’t cope with clearing the obstruction, as well as breaking through the frontal armor of MBT, intercepting a ballistic missile, sinking a destroyer, destroying a fortified area and destroying the Death Star.

                How much does the warhead weigh in a TBG-7в (this grenade also contains a propelling charge, a jet engine and a large elongated multi-leaf stabilizer)?
                1. 0
                  8 November 2016 19: 24
                  works highly efficiently on grenade throwers, machine gunners, snipers and commanders in the infantry chain
                  few commander will be replaced. for the machine gunner there will be a submachine gunner. etc. attack will resume
                  Xiu Jiang does not need to destroy the pillbox, he will just kill his garrison, falling into the embrasure.
                  few, the garrison will be replaced.
                  How much does the warhead weigh in a TBG-7в (this grenade also contains a propelling charge, a jet engine and a large elongated multi-leaf stabilizer)?
                  3 kg of explosives 6 kg of TNT.
                  1. 0
                    8 November 2016 19: 39
                    Of the remaining 7 line-up submachine gunners, four who took command, SVD, PK and RPGs will be immediately knocked out with four Xiu Jiang shots, and the offensive will be interrupted for the time when the machine-gunners rush along the defense front and hang on them new equipment - no less than 5 minutes. In fact, the offensive will be choked.
                    Another such iteration - and the branch will cease to exist.

                    The Dota garrison is not replaceable during its assault.

                    The weight of the thermobaric mixture in TBG-7в is 1,8 kg, the rest 2,7 kg is the body, fuse, propellant, jet engine and stabilizer. The weight of the hull, GOS, rocket engine and small-scale stabilizer Xiu Jiang will completely fit into the last value.
                    1. 0
                      8 November 2016 19: 53
                      learn materiel. and the branches do not fight one by one.
                      SVD, PC and RPG will be immediately knocked out with four shots of Xiu Jiang
                      if it were that easy. the sniper can "press" the platoon for a while. until it is "covered" with mortars. but will not be able to replace mortars. and RPG and whatnot. samples that will replace everything appear regularly. then, by the absence of all this, they try to excuse themselves for failure and loss.
                      1. 0
                        8 November 2016 20: 09
                        Moreover, they also do not fight one defense at a time. In the intervals between reloading and Xiu Jiang shots, the remaining infantrymen in the chain will be pressed to the ground by the rifle fire of the defenders.

                        The feature of Xiu Jiang is that it is easy to carry on hand and changes the firing position from shot to shot, unlike the 81 / 82-mm mortar, the stationary position of which will be detected along the path of literally the first two or three mines and destroyed by mounted fire of the same Xiu Jiang.

                        The RPG-7 is generally off topic when repelling the attack of a sparse infantry chain.

                        And most importantly - the accuracy of shooting Xiu Jiang on ground targets is one meter, regardless of range, starting with 3 km or less. Those. the infantry chain will be knocked out before it reaches the line of aimed fire from machine guns.
                    2. 0
                      8 November 2016 20: 01
                      For Xiu Jiang, the weight of explosives will be proportionally 1,6 kg - this is a solid indicator.
                      he has the whole warhead maximum so much less likely. filling with ammunition of 10-25%, i.e. 100-300 gr. maximum 400 but this is unlikely. against 6 kg.
                      1. 0
                        8 November 2016 20: 54
                        As for the actual weight of the Xiu Jiang warhead, I can’t say anything - in this regard I just gave my assessment based on a similar ratio of the weight of the thermobaric mixture and the rest of the TBG-7в.

                        The possible weight of the Xiu Jiang fragmentation warhead can be estimated by the fact that there are self-made solutions for installing an 82 mm mine as an RPG-7 warhead grenade launcher. Together with the parasitic plumage in this case and the propellant charge of the mine, its weight is 3 kg, the net weight of the mine can be estimated at 2 kg.

                        The sum of 2 and 2,4 (the estimated weight of the Xiu Jiang rocket design) gives 4,4 kg - a perfectly acceptable starting weight for this rocket.
    3. 0
      8 November 2016 21: 31
      Karl Gustav M4 has surpassed all grenade launchers in its versatility
  8. +1
    8 November 2016 15: 23
    Quote: Operator
    The library of target images (silhouettes from different angles of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, vehicles, SUVs, mortar and artillery positions, firing points, ATGMs, head and chest silhouettes of snipers, machine gunners, grenade launchers, winged drones and quadcopters) is recorded in the memory of the Xiu Jiang launcher computer .

    eight)))))))))))))))))))))))))
    Okay, a simple example. artificially armored toyotovsky jeep with DShK.
    How your "image library" will work
    1. +3
      8 November 2016 15: 32
      Quote: Spade
      How your "image library" will work

      Comrad fantasized as usual. There is no "image library". To date, no algorithm can distinguish a Russian tank from a Chinese one. Recognizing even distorted symbols is still an insurmountable problem, but here a tank from different angles, on a different scale, with a different color, on a different background and not laboratory conditions. There is no fourth generation ATGM yet.
    2. 0
      8 November 2016 17: 12
      If the memory of the rocket already contains the nth number of optical images of targets, then what prevents to lay another plus one image of a jeep with a DShK?

      It is possible that the recognition algorithm used in the Xiu Jiang rocket is quite sufficient for the contour of the jeep itself, regardless of the presence / absence of a DShK (as well as a smartphone that recognizes a smile on the face of a European, black man, Asian with glasses, with a beard, mustache )
  9. +2
    8 November 2016 15: 37
    Quote: Operator
    You are probably a baaaalsh specialist in optical pattern recognition if you put an equal sign between recognition a template image of a target embedded in the computer’s memory and an intelligent algorithm that allows the rocket itself select target.

    You can familiarize yourself with the first approach on your smartphone (face and smile), the second approach is currently fantastic or, in other words, the topic of your dissertation.

    PS More carefully with Russian-language terminology, professor, you are not the only one here.


    26 letters of the Latin alphabet in a slightly distorted form are an unbearable task for a powerful PiCi with an "intelligent algorithm", and your missile is able to recognize the target itself. Learn materiel.
    1. 0
      8 November 2016 16: 22
      I believe, I hope - in Israel, optical pattern recognition will for a long time be like Newton’s bin for Berbers laughing

      What are you with this applied question to me, a modest producer of system software, gotten used to it? Better turn to Apple or Google (depending on which smartphone you have) and they will sort through the situation with optical pattern recognition in your device.
  10. +2
    8 November 2016 17: 57
    Quote: Operator
    I believe, I hope - in Israel, optical pattern recognition will for a long time be like Newton’s bin for Berbers laughing

    What are you with this applied question to me, a modest producer of system software, gotten used to it? Better turn to Apple or Google (depending on which smartphone you have) and they will sort through the situation with optical pattern recognition in your device.

    An elementary question and you are in a puddle. Why can't the computer recognize the letters in this picture? You are a "humble system software maker".
    1. +1
      8 November 2016 20: 34
      I am a system engineer, I don’t care about your applications. If they pay, we crack them like nuts - they also found Newton's bin for me.

      Everything is easier than ever - you coarsen the real picture of the reference object by breaking it into small polygons, write it to the library and so on several times from different angles. When shooting a real object, you again coarsen its picture, compare it with coarsened pictures from the library, and if the reference points coincide, you consider the target recognition operation to be completed.

      You enter into the algorithm the coefficient of coincidence of the reference image and the actual image of the target (different from unity) and, voila, you hand over the application software to the customer.

      Plus, to speed up the search for library images, you use one of the advanced algorithms for building a neural network, a multi-core graphics processor and something else that you should not know bully
      1. 0
        8 November 2016 21: 59
        Urgent Nobel Prize for the "operator". He solved an unsolvable problem until now. But why do we get unnecessary CAPTCHAs? Scientists have been struggling with this task since 1964, since Vander-Lucht proposed using an optical correlator for this purpose. And the "operator" decided everything. laughing
        1. 0
          8 November 2016 22: 32
          The van der Lugt method is from another opera (holography). We still have a flat image of the goal, though from different angles, which simplifies.

          I personally participated (as an integrator, no more) in a large-scale project on-line face recognition in the crowd of passengers of one of the types of urban transport, and this was six years ago. Ready-made applied solutions of both domestic and foreign production (competing with each other) were used. Everything worked without comment.

          The problem at that time was in computing equipment - standard computers located directly near surveillance cameras (due to the large flow of data both to the database and from the database). The entire system, deployed in the amount of thousands of points, would have flown a lot of money to the user and, in addition, there was simply no physical space for placement near compact desktop cameras, and the temperature and humidity conditions of their operation were off scale.

          Therefore, it became clear that it was necessary to switch to specialized (and miniaturized) equipment with graphic processors and flash memory. Due to the multi-core processors, the application software had to be redone; the customer did not want to pay for OCD (he wanted to buy only the finished product), and that was the end of the matter.

          Apparently, the Chinese RPG developer invested in the appropriate software or found a modern turnkey solution on the market - after all, 6 years have passed, and target recognition is easier than face recognition in the crowd.
          1. 0
            9 November 2016 11: 44
            Quote: Operator
            The van der Lugt method is from another opera (holography). We still have a flat image of the goal, though from different angles, which simplifies.

            Do not write about what you have not the slightest idea. fool He tried to recognize two-dimensional images of characters. Successfully. But ... the slightest distortion and the method does not work.
            http://books.ifmo.ru/file/pdf/998.pdf

            http://know.alnam.ru/archive/arch.php?path=../htm
            /book_gl2/files.book&file=gl2_52.files/image4.gif
            Devices, systems and technologies for storing, transmitting and processing information are the basic components of any artificial intelligence systems.
            In this paper, we consider a holographic device that processes an image received at its input so that the parameters of the output optical signal (response) allow you to compare this image with a reference image, identify it, i.e. recognize the image.
            This device is called a holographic correlator, because it implements a correlation recognition algorithm in which a decision on the degree of similarity of images is made by calculating the cross-correlation function of the reference and object (recognizable) images.


            Today science has gone far ahead, but not so much as to easily recognize only 26 letters of the alphabet. I will not say anything about the tank. Even the plane cannot be recognized today. And it would seem something easier. Bank of images from different sides of the F-16 against the sky in memory of the rocket and forward. However, even anti-aircraft missiles costing a million dollars cannot do this. And only in the fantasies of the "operator" everything is easy.

            Quote: Operator
            Apparently, the Chinese RPG developer invested in the appropriate software or found a modern turnkey solution on the market - after all, 6 years have passed, and target recognition is easier than face recognition in the crowd.

            This is your Wishlist not confirmed by anything. Let the evidence in the studio.
            1. 0
              9 November 2016 12: 50
              Don't be so hard on the Chinese laughing

              As I understand it, the initiative development of the Chinese company was carried out at its expense and, let’s say, does not fully meet the stated characteristics. There is still a lot of work ahead, but the only direction chosen is the right one - every day more and more cheap and effective solutions appear in the market in the field of miniature high-resolution cameras, night vision devices, infrared imaging cameras, optical pattern recognition programs, multi-core processors, flash memory, etc.

              In the field of electronics and software, the Chinese got a good start and incentive from the Israelis (refusal to transfer ready-made solutions in this area). Now they will gain experience (as always, very quickly) and will soon put workable and, most importantly, cheap solutions on the stream.

              By the way, it makes sense to increase the capabilities of pattern recognition devices mounted in a variety of homing missiles in stages - first, restrict yourself to receiving laser radiation reflected from the target (already achieved), then add automatic guidance to the target marked by the operator (during development) and only then strengthen these Optical target recognition functions based on a library of reference images (near term).

              It should be borne in mind that the recognition problem is solved only on the basis of obtaining high-definition images, which are then coarsened according to a special algorithm identical to the coarsening algorithm of the target’s reference image.
              1. 0
                9 November 2016 14: 51
                Quote: Operator
                Don't be so hard on the Chinese

                I have no complaints about the Chinese. I have a claim to visionaries issuing their Wishlist for reality.

                To summarize:
                * The Chinese have never announced the creation of a system for recognizing goals on either this or any other system.
                * 4th generation ATGM does not exist.
                * None of the existing algorithms is able to visually distinguish your tank from someone else's.

                All of the above by me are facts and will remain a fact until it is proved the opposite. hi
                1. 0
                  9 November 2016 15: 22
                  Yeah, and Trump will never become the president of the United States.

                  From the phrase "distinguish your tank from someone else's" it follows that you do not understand the very meaning of target recognition - the task being solved is to distinguish any tank (your own / someone else's, no difference) in a given square of 100x100 meters from trees, houses, infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled guns, cars, etc. other objects (with the same dimensions) in the same square.

                  The problem is solved in stages - first they teach the optical (this is the whole chip) system to recognize similar objects (tank, self-propelled guns, infantry fighting vehicles) from dissimilar ones (tree, house, car), then - recognize individual types of objects (tank) in among similar ones (self-propelled guns, infantry fighting vehicles) )

                  Recognizing your tank from someone else’s is stupidly solved by special geometric signs (the so-called optical encoding) applied to your tanks before the battle, for example, in the form of one of the letters of the large alphabet.

                  The problem of recognizing a ship by its contour in different angles has long been solved in the GOS RCC - for example, in LRASM.

                  Israeli darkness laughing
                  1. 0
                    9 November 2016 15: 41
                    Quote: Operator
                    From the phrase "distinguish your tank from someone else's" it follows that you do not understand the very meaning of target recognition - the task being solved is to distinguish any tank (your own / someone else's, no difference) in a given square of 100x100 meters from trees, houses, infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled guns, cars, etc. other objects (with the same dimensions) in the same square.

                    Brilliant. fool We shoot from behind the hill and the rocket hits the tank. The enemy’s own tank or tank doesn’t matter. Uraaaaaaa !!!!! By the way, show us a working system that can automatically distinguish a tank from an infantry fighting vehicle, an infantry fighting vehicle from a truck, and a truck from a school bus.

                    Quote: Operator
                    The problem is solved in stages - first they teach the optical (this is the whole chip) system to recognize similar objects (tank, self-propelled guns, infantry fighting vehicles) from dissimilar ones (tree, house, car), then - recognize individual types of objects (tank) in among similar ones (self-propelled guns, infantry fighting vehicles) )

                    You are a "big" theorist however. As a practice, no. sad

                    Quote: Operator
                    Recognizing your tank from someone else’s is stupidly solved by special geometric signs (the so-called optical encoding) applied to your tanks before the battle, for example, in the form of one of the letters of the large alphabet.

                    Those. by drawing a large white cross on the turret of his tank so that it would be easier for the enemy to aim. Competently. And if this "special geometric sign" gets smeared with dust, snow or mud, then their "smart" missiles will hit their own tanks, but in automatic mode. Super competent. bully

                    Quote: Operator
                    The problem of recognizing a ship by its contour in different angles has long been solved in the GOS RCC - for example, in LRASM.

                    Wowooo Goals from one angle against the sky and sea? This is progress. good I missed something. We are kind of going to shoot from this Chinese miracle at armored vehicles and fortified points. Or how? wink

                    PS
                    So why is Psi not able to read the letters here? lol
                    1. 0
                      9 November 2016 16: 18
                      You tie something with letters - I presented you with LRASM (and from any angle, both along and across the ship's hull).

                      You misunderstand the purpose of optical encoding of objects - this is an additional safety measure against friendly fire. The main safety measure is a purely territorial distinction between own and other objects on the battlefield with an accuracy of 100 meters, which is absolutely enough for a homing missile (the target square is set by the operator before launching).

                      Moreover, manual setting of the target square greatly facilitates the operation of the optical missile seeker, since tanks and infantry fighting vehicles do not attack in a crowd, but at a distance of at least 100 meters from each other. Also located are self-propelled guns, MLRS, towed artillery and air defense systems at firing positions (so that the enemy could not destroy several weapons at once with one shell).

                      And when firing near tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled guns, self-propelled guns, MLRS, air defense systems and towed artillery within a radius of 100 meters, you will not find cars in the afternoon with fire.

                      There is one exception to this rule - a battle in the city when battle groups from tanks and infantry fighting vehicles operate in close order, but then you can indiscriminately hit any of them, after which the battle group is guaranteed to roll back.

                      So "Aleet Vostok", you are a practitioner of our dissertation bully
                      1. 0
                        9 November 2016 16: 30
                        Quote: Operator
                        You tie something with letters - I presented you with LRASM (and from any angle, both along and across the ship's hull).

                        From simple to complex. Let’s first learn to read (distinguish between black letters on a white background), and after that we’ll move on to the tanks.
                        All the best to you.
    2. 0
      11 November 2016 02: 27
      so it seems like they already recognize
      https://habrahabr.ru/post/116222/
  11. 0
    8 November 2016 21: 03
    Operator, Op Wash, please replay slower, I record wassat
    1. 0
      8 November 2016 21: 34
      Dachshund, we will write that Okhotolyub wrote down what is not supposed laughing
  12. 0
    9 November 2016 16: 37
    Quote: professor
    From simple to complex

    That's it (from ships to tanks) - right laughing

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