New sniper rifle for special services launched in the series

A new sniper complex, designed for special services, has passed state tests and is ready for mass production, reports TASS a message from the head of TsNIITOCHMASH Dmitry Semizorov.

“Rifles passed state tests successfully. The work of the interdepartmental commission has already been completed, the letters have already been assigned, ”reported Semizorov to Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

The first batch will be transferred to the FSO.

“Already there is an order first, the first batch is small. It will go into military service at the FSO, and we are already working on serial deliveries, ”he said.

“It will be two complexes (caliber) 7,62 mm and two complexes (caliber) 8,6 mm. By the end of 2017, the serial order will be directly, ”said the head of the institute.

He added that 5 enterprises took part in the work on the complex, but the delivery will be carried out “through one window”.

"TSNIITOCHMASH takes responsibility for the work of the entire complex, respectively, the state customer in the event of any unforeseen maintenance situations or scheduled repairs applies only to TSNIITOCHMASH, not spreading across all enterprises," Semizorov explained.

“This sniper complex was developed simultaneously with the cartridges, and is not inferior in anything to foreign counterparts neither in accuracy nor in firing range. The new rifles were immediately developed in conjunction with thermal night and day sights and a laser target designator, ”he said

For the rifle, the 2 cartridge is created - regular and armor-piercing with the 7,62 caliber on 51 and 8,6 on 68, respectively. They are engaged in the production of Tula and Ulyanovsk ammunition plants. According to Semizorov, the armor-piercing patron surpasses foreign analogues in its characteristics by 25-30%.

He also stressed that the rifle is made entirely of domestic materials, "with the exception of the electronic component base in thermal imaging sights." For the base was taken rifle T-5000.

Comments

[OLD FART]

with the exception of the electronic component base in thermal imaging sights "

This is bad, have not learned to see yet ...

[Giant thought]

It is a pity that the sniper rifle did not work out completely with domestic equipment, if only foreign suppliers did not fail in the mass production of the rifle.

[OLD FART]

Quote: Thought Giant

in mass production of a rifle.

Mass production, a relative concept in this matter ....

[OLD FART]

Quote: STARPER

Quote: Thought Giant

in mass production of a rifle.

Mass production, a relative concept in this matter ....

And canopies can always be replaced if that ..!

[midivan]

Quote: Thought Giant

if only foreign suppliers did not fail in the mass production of rifles

Yeah, the paddlers won't let you down

[Inok10]

Quote: midivan

Yeah, the paddlers won't let you down

... ah, they are not needed ... only in August they discussed the news:

The Istok enterprise and TsNII Tsiklon (part of the Roselektronika holding) are preparing mass production of “uncooled matrix microbolometric receivers”, which form the basis of thermal imaging devices, said Alexei Gorbunov, a representative of the research institute.
According to him, "Russia has become the fourth country in the world after the United States, France and China, which managed to create its own thermal imaging matrix."
“Received samples that match the parameters of the world level. Production is being created in the country with a production volume of up to 10 thousand pieces per year, ”Gorbunov said. Source: http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/80900/?pid=809395

... A chicken pecking a grain ...

[midivan]

Quote: Inok10

The Istok enterprise and the Central Research Institute Cyclone (part of the Roselektronika holding) are preparing mass production of “uncooled matrix microbolometric receivers”,

I missed it, it happens that there’s no time even to see the news here

Quote: Inok10

.. ah, they are not needed ... only in August they discussed the news:

But what about this?

[/ quote] completely from domestic materials, "with the exception of the electronic component base in thermal imaging sights" [quote]

Or are we combing our habit out of habit so that the enemy wouldn’t bother again?

[Inok10]

Quote: midivan

Or are we combing our habit out of habit so that the enemy wouldn’t bother again?

... they most likely said as is ... according to how the serial order has been discussed since the end of 2017:

“Already there is an order first, the first batch is small. It will go into military service at the FSO, and we are already working on serial deliveries, ”he said.
“It will be two complexes (caliber) 7,62 mm and two complexes (caliber) 8,6 mm. By the end of 2017, the serial order will be directly, ”said the head of the institute.

... quickly the Tale affects, but not quickly the thing is done ...

[Red_Hamer]

I don’t even know you, I will delight or disappoint. In this rifle, there are no foreign components, and the ammunition for it is also domestic! Do not believe, but in vain!

[Monarchist]

Igor, how then should one understand: "except for the electronic component base of thermal imagers"? Either I am a "slow-witted" or not smart wrote?

[Juborg]

LOCALIZATION OF MANY PRODUCTIONS IN ONE COUNTRY MAY ECONOMICALLY BE NOT PROFITABLE IN A CENTURY OF WILD CAPITALISM. I think you shouldn't blame it, because you look at what is happening, despite the sanctions, there is a purchase of machines, and other equipment, the same French boats, drones, optics, etc. Today, the Defense Ministry is not sitting interspersed with traitors, but thinking happy people for the country. This sniper complex, in spite of everything, was relatively quickly put on stream and weapons, which is good news. I would like to believe that the new light armored car "Scorpion" will be the same, it has already passed the test and put into service, we will wait for the saturation of our army with them.

[bouncyhunter]

It is a pity that the rifle is made for "other people's" ammunition ...

[Karaul73]

What difference does it make - friends or foes. The main thing is that they will be produced locally.

[mr.redpartizan]

The .338LM cartridge is very good for firing at ranges of up to 1,5 km, providing accuracy in the region of 1 MOA. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel if no one has had radical breakthroughs in this area for a long time?

[fennekRUS]

Quote: mr.redpartizan

Why should we reinvent the wheel

But he is not. Have you seen the gauges in the article? 308 wines and 338 lm of domestic assembly and the T-5000 dvd slightly modified. The bicycle remained uninvented. The only question is the quality of our 338s. Who used it? Unsubscribe.

[Oden280]

Not modified, but ruffled. TSNIITOCHMASH never had machines of such precision machining as in Orsis. In addition, production in Orsis is small-scale. with manual assembly and fitting of parts. Again, the FSO prefers Lobaevsky rifles, and these indulge in this.

[There is an opinion]

They don’t give it back, they bought a few pieces, and that’s all. They already bought English there, a lot of things. And now the hamster has forced his own orchids to buy.

[Sotskiy]

Quote: Giant thought

It is a pity that the sniper rifle did not work out completely with domestic equipment, if only foreign suppliers did not fail in the mass production of the rifle.

AliExpress, Alibaba already have Russian affiliates. Prices in rubles. For two, three weeks it is guaranteed-even an elephant will be brought! So there are no problems in deliveries from Chinese friends!
The main thing: 100% prepayment

[dorn40]

and don’t learn. China is nearby. it’s cheaper there. what do what do not do. the entire elemental base in all our sights. or rather, the sights of our assembly Chinese

[dauria]

This is bad, have not learned to see yet.

You just grumble ... Are we going to grow bananas too? Well, they will buy in China two buckets of microcontrollers with a stock at the price of a bucket, they will spend years in warehouses "just in case" until they become morally obsolete. And the problem has been solved.

[edge]

Quote: STARPER

with the exception of the electronic component base in thermal imaging sights "

matrices are still made by Germany, France and China

[Same lech]

All sorts of experts are already doubting with might and main.

Andrei Soyustov doubted the possibility of producing the “Precision” rifle by Russian factories, which negates its positioning as import-substituting.

I wonder who will take it or Rogozin.

[Gray brother]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Andrei Soyustov doubted the possibility of producing the “Precision” rifle by Russian factories, which negates its positioning as import-substituting.

The basis of the ORSIS rifle, they manage to make good rifles ...

[midivan]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

I wonder who will take it or Rogozin.

Judging by this, he also emphasized that the rifle was made entirely of domestic materials, “with the exception of the electronic component base in the thermal imaging sights.” rifles, and over time, we can already ours master this heat-loving beast

[Niccola Mack]

The 8,6 cartridge is probably the .338 Lapua Magnum.
And the rest is somehow muddy - either the complexes are very mediocre, or they themselves don’t know.

[Vadim237]

Probably one of them will be the SVLK-14S "Twilight" ultra-long-range rifle with a sniper range of 3500 meters.

[Same lech]

SVLK-14S "Twilight" sniper range of 3500 meters.

What cartridge will be for this rifle?

[PSih2097]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

What cartridge will be for this rifle?

This...

the price in the states is 7,5 bucks per cartridge ...

Ammunition .408 Cheyenne Tactical or .408 Chey Tac is a special sniper cartridge that was designed in 2001 under the leadership of Dr. John Taylor and with the assistance of William Wordman at the Cheyenne Tactical and Tactical High Energy Impact Systems.

Ammunition .408 Chey Tac takes in size and weight an intermediate place between sniper long-range ammunition .338 Lapua (8.6x76) and a powerful machine-gun cartridge .50 Browning (12.7x99) .m

[Niccola Mack]

Is 3500 meters an elephant?
To get confidently over a person further than 1000 - I somehow hardly imagine (and then - the exact range, temperature, wind, wear, Coriolis)

[Same lech]

To get confidently over a person further than 1000 - I somehow hardly imagine (and then - the exact range, temperature, wind, wear, Coriolis)

So it seems like computerized sights for snipers appeared ... practically nothing needs to be done ... I pointed at the target, clicked on the button and fell where the computer indicates.

[Niccola Mack]

I, too, thought of the simplicity of my soul as a child, when my father bought a carabiner with optics - put the cross on the target and press.
In films, it’s kind of shown.
All these "thoughts" were there in childhood and remained - in the distant.

[There is an opinion]

Learn http://inwetech.ru/product/intellektualnyj_roboti
zirovannyj_malogabaritnyj_teplovizionnyj_pricelny
j_kompleks_iwt_lf640_mk2

[fennekRUS]

at chi-taka, the bullet is monolithic, and somersaults in the far distance, if you believe the operators. However, for what I bought, for that I am selling it.

[mr.redpartizan]

Very poorly believed in the ability to get from a rifle to a person from 3,5 km. The speed of the bullet on the trajectory decreases quite quickly, the BC of the bullet also changes (depending on speed), so we can talk about acceptable accuracy only on the supersonic part of the trajectory. Tank BOPS can hit a soccer ball from several kilometers, but its speed exceeds 1500 m / s and drops very slowly.

[Cat man null]

Quote: mr.redpartizan

Tank BOPS can hit a soccer ball from several kilometers

- maybe DO NOT get caught
- the second is much more probably
- when I was engaged in shooting at school, they tried to get into a penny at 50 m. In the shooting range. From small things with a diopter
- so, the biggest problem is to understand WHERE to aim
- a penny on the front sight is placed 4-5 times commercials (from memory). That is, the front sight is much wider than the "target"
- the same is true for "a soccer ball for several (how many, by the way?) kilometers"

[Zaurbek]

T-5000 is a product requiring high-precision equipment, which is not manufactured by us (the production kit was privately purchased by Orsis and Lobarev). If our industry has such equipment for the production of such rifles in series, then this is cool! And, accordingly, ammunition and gunpowder. For me, an indicator of the capabilities of the defense industry will be the release of a self-loading modern rifle to replace the SVD.

[Razvedka_Boem]

Once there was an article about sniper weapons here a long time ago and in my comment I noted that the SVD is outdated and needs to be changed ..) How many copies were thrown at me)
In the case of replacing the SVD, I think it will not be a self-loading rifle .. A modern automatic rifle with a modern sight can work up to 500 m, and for longer ranges a normal rifle under the Lapua Magnum is better.

[Zaurbek]

It can work, but with a break, not everything will be all right ...

[Genry]

Quote: Razvedka_Boem

1
Razvedka_Boem Today, 09: 35 ↑ New
Once there was an article about sniper weapons here a long time ago and in my comment I noted that the SVD is outdated and needs to be changed ..) How many copies were thrown at me)

SVD, according to the bourgeois classification, is a Marxman rifle, i.e. weapons of an infantry shooter and not a sniper. Speed ​​and reliability are important here.
A sniper rifle and a sniper shooter are imprisoned for covert work on key targets, where one shot can change all subsequent events. There is more work in collecting data and analyzing the situation than pulling the trigger.

[Razvedka_Boem]

I know who the Marxists are and much more.

[mr.redpartizan]

SVD - an army sniper weapon in the squad, is designed for effective shooting at a distance of up to 600 m. At this distance, it is very effective against suddenly appearing small-sized targets, because It has a fairly high rate of fire due to automation and a detachable magazine for 10 rounds. The American analogue of the SVD is the self-loading rifles M14 and M110 (SR-25).

[Atheist 13]

For ordinary troops up to 800 meters, it is enough to have a self-loading rifle, I read an article about ICS, and such long-range and expensive ones are only for specialists.

[edge]

Quote: Razvedka_Boem

I commented that the SVD is already outdated and needs to be changed ..) How many copies were thrown at me)

svd is good for army snipers participating in hostilities and not sinning on it, but ... it was her who took the basis for the development of a new rifle for marxmillan (army snipers)

[Razvedka_Boem]

and do not sin on her

Poke is not necessary. A sight on SVD is not very. How far does a regular shooter get from SVD? Especially in battle conditions? When high stress stress, smoke or night time. It is unlikely that he will be able to conduct effective fire at a distance of more than 500-600 m. At distances up to half a kilometer, I believe a machine gun or machine gun with a normal sight is more effective. A sniper pair is better to separate into a separate group, say in the company of 5-6 pairs.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Razvedka_Boem

A sniper pair is better to separate into a separate group, say in the company of 5-6 pairs.

for example in a company platoon

[Razvedka_Boem]

A platoon of snipers in the company a lot. I don’t know how it is now, but for example, in the FRG motorized infantry platoon control group there was a commander’s platoon, his deputy, radio operator and 2 snipers.
As part of a company, this could be a division of snipers, with a certain freedom of action.

[mr.redpartizan]

I think the matter is not in the equipment, but in the blanks for the barrel. ORSIS procured barrel stocks in the USA. Will our metallurgy be able to produce the necessary steel in sufficient quantities? There is still a question for the cartridge industry, more precisely, for its ability to mass-produce .338LM cartridges of the required quality. Cartridge factories are focused on the mass production of billions of cartridges for machine guns and machine guns, where the most important thing is mass and low cost.

[Zaurbek]

I think it’s both the equipment and the workpiece. Metal can be purchased not only in the USA. Countries producing high-quality metal is not so small: Russia, the USA, Japan, South Korea, Germany, England, France, maybe someone forgot.

[edge]

Quote: mr.redpartizan

Will our metallurgy be able to produce the necessary steel in sufficient quantities? There is still a question for the cartridge industry, more precisely, for its ability to mass-produce .338LM cartridges of the required quality.

Once it can be declared, it will supply the cartridges with the necessary quantity of cartridges

[adma]

He also stressed that the rifle is made entirely of domestic materials, "with the exception of the electronic component base in thermal imaging sights." For the base was taken rifle T-5000.

Yeah ... T-5000 in the basic configuration (roughly speaking - the rifle itself. One store for 5 rounds and a passport) costs from 380 rubles! And with canopies it will pull so much under a million, if not more. And my legitimate question arises - Do such specialists need such a rifle? Moreover, there were various negative rumors about the problems of operation and maintenance of the T-000.
It reminds me very much of the cut dough. But this is solely MY personal opinion. God grant that I would be wrong.

[PSih2097]

Quote: adma

Yeah ... T-5000 in the basic configuration (roughly speaking - the rifle itself. One store for 5 rounds and a passport) costs from 380 rubles! And with canopies it’ll pull under a million, if not more.

the same German erma SR-100 costs about 10 euros in the configuration of a case, a rifle, three interchangeable barrels for 000mm NATO (.7.62Win), .308 Winchester magnum, .300 Lapua (338x8.6mm), two stores (for 70 ( .10), 308 (.8 wm) or 300 (.5) rounds) and one bolt per caliber + barrel change tool. Optics with a rifle is not for sale !!!

[adma]

So I about it!

[edge]

Quote: adma

Yeah ... T-5000 in the basic configuration (roughly speaking - the rifle itself. One store for 5 rounds and a passport) costs from 380 rubles! And with canopies it’ll pull under a million, if not more.

delirium in the store hangs 135, in caliber 000win

[timeout]

Quote: hert

delirium in the store hangs 135, in caliber 000win

Are you sure? Here is a screenshot of the Orsis site.

Even before the increase, the T-5000 did not cost less than 160000 tr.

[adma]

Is it straight 135? Wow! Cool!
And let's take a look at the manufacturer’s offsite - http://www.orsis.com/production/item/31

[Observer2014]

And the video can be in the studio of a new rifle? Well, or a photo. Where there is no need for secrecy, it sometimes rolls over. What can be discussed without seeing what. It’s not a new engine from an airplane. And not a rocket. But just a rifle. Anyone will see .And what's the point of hiding it ??!

[adma]

Like that -

[Monarchist]

Sees impressive, but let's not forget that this is a manufacturer’s advertisement

[sir.jonn]

Quote: article

For the rifle, 2 rounds were created - regular and armor-piercing in caliber 7,62 by 51 and 8,6 by 68, respectively.

I wonder why 308win (7,62 * 51) is used? It might have been more correct to use the 7,62 * 54R, and at the same time the standard army ammunition can be added to two new ones.

[dauria]

At the same time, regular army ammunition can be added to two new ones.

Also surprised. Apparently, the parameters of serial cartridges are not satisfied. In general, shooting an expensive rifle with micron tolerances with an ordinary cartridge is ridiculous. In any case, this is not an army weapon. Some kind of exclusive.

[mr.redpartizan]

The choice of .308Win cartridges is much wider than the 7,62x54r. According to the characteristics of these cartridges are almost identical.

[Garden1212]

the rifle was adopted by the special services, in such a design for the MORF it is like a Kose bayan. And then they take doubts about the quality of the cartridges since our gunpowder in stability of work wants to be better !!!!

[timeout]

Quote: Saddam1212

our gunpowder in stability of work wants to be better !!!!

Kazan gunpowder is exported, and it is sold overpacked over the hillock and no one complains about quality.

[Izotovp]

For the FSO, of course, 7,62 * 51 is enough, but in my opinion, it's time for the army to replace our old 300winmag cartridge for SVD and RMB for support weapons at the branch level, an 8,58 sniper and a support machine gun at the platoon level and 406 (or 416barrett) in a platoon of heavy weapons at the company level.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Izotovp

RMB for branch level support weapons

For separation you need a machine gun at 7,62x51. And the machines on the same cartridge.

[Izotovp]

Cartridge 7,62 * 51 and cartridge 7,62 * 54 are identical in characteristics and are already at the limit, and 300winmag surpasses them with similar dimensions, the same trunks and there are already some developments for such an impact recoil in SVDK. And for an assault rifle, the rifle cartridge is redundant, which has already been proven a long time ago and the only reasonable prospective assault rifle cartridge today is 6,5 * 39.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Izotovp

Cartridge 7,62 * 51 and cartridge 7,62 * 54 are identical in characteristics

Not the same.

Quote: Izotovp

300winmag outperforms them in similar dimensions

So what?

Quote: Izotovp

And for an assault rifle, the rifle cartridge is redundant, which has already been proven a long time ago and the only reasonable prospective assault rifle cartridge today is 6,5 * 39.

Yeah, HK417 confirms. 6,5 * 39? And many armies switched to this cartridge?

[rjxtufh]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

For separation you need a machine gun at 7,62x51

For separation? Wow.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

And the machines on the same cartridge.

But is it impossible to create an automatic machine on this cartridge? Well, here, just the laws of physics are against.
Although, of course, there are "tricky options". But a very big question is whether the army will need such machines.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: rjxtufh

For separation? Wow.

What is wrong? The US infantry has such a machine gun in the squad, are we worse? Only need not tape, but an analogue of the PKK.

Quote: rjxtufh

But is it impossible to create an automatic machine on this cartridge?

HK417

Quote: rjxtufh

But the very big question is whether the army will need such assault rifles.

Of course we need. Increasing the average battle distance and mass equipment with body armor requires a transition to a more powerful cartridge. The Americans are lucky in this regard. They can safely return to 7,62x51.

[rjxtufh]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The US infantry has such a machine gun in the squad, are we worse?

The squad does NOT need such a machine gun. Enough and "small". But the platoon, yes, needs it.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

HK417

Here it is necessary to determine immediately. A "submachine gun" is usually understood as a weapon capable of automatic fire of the SMG level (80-100 rounds per minute). An automatic weapon capable of automatic fire at a lower rate of fire is a weapon of the SFAW or AW category. And, thus, it is not an automaton.
This is just the case of HK417. This is not an automatic weapon (not SMG), although it is also an automatic weapon (automatic rifle). Automatic and automatic rifle, these are not synonyms. And even the terms of various kinds of quantities, like grams and cubic meters.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Increase in average battle distance

This is not yet completely visible. Maybe someday in the future, it will be so. And everyone will switch to optics. But not now.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

mass equipment with body armor requires a transition to a more powerful cartridge.

This is a more serious problem. But today it is solved by special 5,56x45 mm cartridges.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The Americans are lucky in this regard. They can safely return to 7,62x51

But in Russia there is no need to return anything. Here it is, not gone anywhere.
In fact, there is a problem with the 5,45x39 mm cartridge. And also with weapons on it.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: rjxtufh

Such a machine gun is NOT needed for the department.

Do you want to say you are smarter than the US Department of Defense?

Quote: rjxtufh

This is just the case of HK417. This is not an automatic weapon (not SMG), although it is also an automatic weapon (automatic rifle). Automatic and automatic rifle, these are not synonyms. And even the terms of various kinds of quantities, like grams and cubic meters.

Though call a pot, and she leads an automatic fire.

Quote: rjxtufh

This is not yet completely visible.

Is it not visible with a fig? Everywhere you can put optics and collimators. The Americans are rearmament in m2010, but you can not see.

Quote: rjxtufh

This is a more serious problem. But today it is solved by special 5,56x45 mm cartridges.

It’s still being decided. The whole question is how long this will last.

Quote: rjxtufh

But in Russia there is no need to return anything. Here it is, not gone anywhere.

Do we have mobility already for 10 billion rounds of ammunition 7,62x51? Enlighten, otherwise our Ministry of Defense is not reporting to me.

[rjxtufh]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Do you want to say you are smarter than the US Department of Defense?

It's not about the mind. The point is motivation. First you need to know how the US Department of Defense motivated the presence of such a machine gun in the department.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Though call a pot, and she leads an automatic fire.

Uh, no. Automatic fire to automatic fire.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Everywhere you can put optics and collimators.

As long as there is a small professional army set. But for the mass army, such decisions are not yet acceptable.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The whole question is how long this will last.

And then they will do something. But it’s not clear what.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Do we have mobility already for 10 billion rounds of ammunition 7,62x51?

Who are you going to fight with? And what time is it?
First, you specify for how long there are food supplies. And then go to the cartridges.
PS. Our cartridge is called 7,62x54 mm.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: rjxtufh

It's not about the mind. The point is motivation.

Motivation is not necessary?

Quote: rjxtufh

First you need to know how the US Department of Defense motivated the presence of such a machine gun in the department.

In principle, even this is not particularly important. The main thing is that the US Army division has an advantage over our division.

Quote: rjxtufh

Uh, no. Automatic fire to automatic fire.

Normal there is automatic fire. Which one is necessary.

Quote: rjxtufh

As long as there is a small professional army set. But for the mass army, such decisions are not yet acceptable.

And also a fool's bullet, and a bayonet well done. Are you going to fight on the fronts for a couple of millions of people each? All this is preparation for the past war. And yes, that our fighters suffer because there is no big huge war? Take an example from Israel, they are trying their best to introduce the most modern in order to make life easier for their soldiers. But with us, apparently, an eternal fighter must endure and overcome steadily.

Quote: rjxtufh

And then they will do something. But it’s not clear what.

Considering how long we love to harness .. Are you not a Stalinist for an hour? Not a corpse gathered to throw a corpse?

Quote: rjxtufh

Who are you going to fight with? And what time is it?

And who are our potential friends there? Europe, USA, fraternal China is possible in the long run. There are already a lot of local conflicts. And there will be even more. It is necessary for the USA to somehow defeat us if we have nuclear weapons, so they fire around the perimeter (and Ukraine is generally inside the perimeter) in order to break the economy and cause discontent among the population. We will fight to the victory, and to predict the timing of the war is ungrateful and poorly predictable business.

Quote: rjxtufh

First, you specify for how long there are food supplies. And then go to the cartridges.

If there are cartridges but there is no food, it is still somehow possible to fight, but if on the contrary ..

Quote: rjxtufh

Our cartridge is called 7,62x54 mm.

Antique, archaic cartridge of excess power. A place in the museum.

[rjxtufh]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The main thing is that the US Army division has an advantage over our division.

And why did you decide that if the American branch has a machine gun on a rifle cartridge, it will have an advantage?

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Normal there is automatic fire. Which one is necessary.

PPC. And with whom am I discussing?

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Are you going to fight on the fronts for a couple of millions of people each?

I was not going to fight at all. But wars are usually waged like that. And what you call wars are just local conflicts. Not a war.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Take an example from Israel

Israel, in principle, is not able to wage war. Even if I really wanted it. The maximum that is enough for it is a local conflict.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

And who are our potential friends there? Europe, USA, fraternal China is possible in the long run.

Take an interest in food supplies. As well as medicines.
And then build strategic plans for global wars.
Not all countries are capable of waging war with conventional weapons. For different reasons.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

If there are cartridges but no food, you can still fight somehow

Yes? Well, try to starve for a week. And then run a little with weight. Then describe the effect.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Antique, archaic cartridge of excess power. A place in the museum.

Rearmament costs money. And not small.
Cartridge 7,62x54 mm R, this is not the weakest link in the series of what remains of the USSR.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: rjxtufh

And why did you decide that if the American branch has a machine gun on a rifle cartridge, it will have an advantage?

Of course it will. A machine gun on a rifle cartridge has a longer range.

Quote: rjxtufh

PPC. And with whom am I discussing?

How should I know?

Quote: rjxtufh

I was not going to fight at all. But wars are usually waged like that. And what you call wars are just local conflicts. Not a war.

Wow. Usually. Throughout history there have been only two wars of this kind, and you already have "usually". And yes, a local conflict is when you fought with your wife in the kitchen. And what you call a local conflict is a war.

Quote: rjxtufh

Israel, in principle, is not able to wage war.

In principle, capable. He makes out with different successes in one way or another, but he is capable.

Quote: rjxtufh

Take an interest in food supplies. As well as medicines.

Paracetamol over have to give up?

Quote: rjxtufh

Yes? Well, try to starve for a week. And then run a little with weight. Then describe the effect.

Try to fight without cartridges, then describe the effect.

Quote: rjxtufh

Rearmament costs money. And not small.

Well, you propose re-arming at 5,56.

Quote: rjxtufh

Cartridge 7,62x54 mm R, this is not the weakest link in the series of what remains of the USSR.

If from the USSR, and then there the ghost of the Russian Empire looms. Of course, not the weakest. The weakest link is people with the psychology of the time of feudalism who thoughtlessly pull us into capitalism at the end of its existence and do not want to look at the future from the word at all.

[rjxtufh]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

A machine gun on a rifle cartridge has a longer range.

And so what?

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Throughout history there have been only two wars of this kind, and you already have "usually".

There were a million. Do not distort.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

In principle, capable.

I have a different opinion. See above.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Paracetamol over have to give up?

Very funny".

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Try to fight without cartridges

Our ancestors easily managed without them.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Well, you propose re-arming at 5,56.

I did not offer this. I wrote that this would be the best option, but very expensive. In terms of the effectiveness of weapons (along with the purchase of a license for something on this cartridge). But I didn’t offer, because it is very expensive.
And I suggested making an automatic machine chambered for 5.45x39 mm with a barrel of 500-520 mm and n / s bullets of the order of 925 m / s. With balanced automation and normal accuracy of fire. And use it for now.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

these are people with the psychology of the times of feudalism thoughtlessly pulling us into capitalism

Do you hear yourself from the outside? “People with the psychology of the times of feudalism” cannot pull anyone anywhere, except into this very feudalism.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

capitalism at the end of its existence

Under capitalism (bourgeois society), the overwhelming minority of the world's population lives at this time. Those. capitalism has yet to grow and grow. And you wrote it down in "at the end of existence." There was no prosperity either, it was just ahead.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

and not wanting to look to the future from the word at all.

What is it like? People advocating capitalism, they are looking to the future. And who else?

[Holoy]

The rifle Accuracy is called ... There is already a whole scandal around it ... Rogozin's campaign is not the first time he has gotten into trouble ...

[cannabis]

They explained it to you, rifles for the FSO. Firing range of not more than a kilometer when guarding while fishing and not more than half a kilometer in the city. Such rifles are used for specific purposes. (watch films Generals of the sand pits and Professional).

[Monarchist]

I have a question for Bongo and everyone who is "in the subject": for what a goblin caliber 8,6. If the 7,62 caliber is already outdated (this is possible), can you switch to the 338 Magnum completely?

[mr.redpartizan]

The 8,6 mm cartridge is almost twice as powerful as our 7,62x54 mm or American 7,62x51 mm, so the weapon will have to be re-created. The mass of weapons will increase, and ammunition will be reduced by half. The only plus is increased armor penetration.

[edge]

Quote: Monarchist

If the caliber 7,62 is already out of date (is this possible), can it completely switch to 338 Magnum?

yes, FIG is outdated — when we switched to 5.45-5.56 — the main motivation was; reducing weightless (consequently, reducing the fatigue of a fighter), increasing the initial velocity of the bullet. Energy 7.62 allows you to work stably by weight up to 120 kg, 5,45 - up to 90.

[timeout]

Quote: hert

Energy 7.62 allows you to work stably on a weight of up to 120 kg, 5,45- up to 90.

Dear, where does the weight come from? As far as we know the task in battle is not how much to destroy the enemy, but to disable. The 5,45 cartridge corresponds to this completely, a moderate wound is guaranteed to incapacitate for an nth amount of time in the future, and even when the wound itself is received, the fighter does not think about the further introduction of the battle, but about saving his mortal carcass, gently cherishing the damaged body.

[Mikhail Polnikov]

Maybe right away already at 12,7x107, like the Cheetah M4SA1 with a ten-charge magazine? Or "Cheetah" MZ ", under ammunition 14,5x114, for sure?
And what is bad, for example, ASVK under 12.7x108?
This is from large-caliber. And from your family, for example, "Vintorez" (VSS, 6P29) under 9x39 what's wrong? Or is it no longer relevant? At a price of about 75 - 90 rubles per copy ...

[PSih2097]

Quote: Mikhail Polnikov

Maybe right away already at 12,7x107, like the Cheetah M4SA1 with a ten-charge magazine? Or "Cheetah" MZ ", under ammunition 14,5x114, for sure?
And what is bad, for example, ASVK under 12.7x108?
This is from large-caliber. And from your family, for example, "Vintorez" (VSS, 6P29) under 9x39 what's wrong? Or is it no longer relevant? At a price of about 75 - 90 rubles per copy ...

the price tag for the cartridge 9x39 ...

[Damir]

For the rifle, 2 rounds were created - the usual and armor-piercing caliber 7,62 by 51 and ....

We pass to the NATO standard ???? I wonder what the decision is justified ...

[Izotovp]

Greater market demand.

[Damir]

Whose market ???? we have a lot of weapons under the NATO standard ?? we are not going to buy ammunition on the side ????

[Izotovp]

At the international. Already quite a lot. Pistols, machine guns, rifles.

[Damir]

Okay ... apparently I’m seriously misunderstanding something .... why do we need compatibility with a potential enemy in terms of ammunition ???

[3 Gorynych]

to save your ammunition! IMHO

[Mikhail Polnikov]

So that in case of war we do not have problems with the delivery of ammunition, otherwise our logistics ... is limping ...

[warriordima]

Quote: Izotovp

At the international. Already quite a lot. Pistols, machine guns, rifles.

Well, in this case, we are losing the exclusivity of our goods, and competitors will also sell cartridges of "general" caliber to the buyers of our weapons, and in this vein we will lose part of the potential profit.
IMHO, you just need to make your product of high quality ... "you shouldn't bend under the volatile WORLD (new market), let it bend better under us."))

[ARES623]

"We are moving to the NATO standard ???? I wonder what the decision is based on ..."

To a greater extent, as I think, the point is in those promising goals for which they are designed. Today, both missiles and sensor elements of high-precision weapons are executed in an armored version. The head fairings of the missiles are armored from the 20-mm ammunition of automatic guns. That's why we need fairly light rifles, but with a bullet of high power and large ranges of destruction. And if there is a well-developed and well-recommended ammunition, then why invent your own? In the end, this cartridge does not need to be sharpened in a million series, and in small batches its cost will be simply prohibitive.

[Damir]

In the end, this cartridge millionth series do not need to sharpen

how is it not necessary ???? where will he come from ???? will start by itself ??? so it was already ... submachine guns (PP) were not accepted into service because they did not provide for the defeat of armored vehicles .. the armor-piercing cartridge for a mosquito was adopted ... and still armored vehicles were hit from anti-tank rifles with a caliber of 14,5 mm ... and do not look west ....

[ARES623]

"how is it not necessary ???? where does it come from ???? will start by itself ???"

You, apparently, are going to grind all weapons under this cartridge? Stupid. And the expense for sniper targets is orders of magnitude less than the level of acceptable cost, as it seems to me. We have more than 4 billion rounds of ammunition left with explosives left. In 1990, there were still reserves of 7,62x54 with a blunt-headed bullet model 1891. I do not think that the weapons that consume 7,62x54 R in the largest quantity should be dragged under another cartridge. It is possible today, as long as the conditions allow you to buy 3-10 tons of other people's ammunition, put it into storage and smoke the sky with money. Sniper cartridges - this is not exactly what they shoot from the PC (at a cost), and their super-quality is not necessary at the ranges of the use of propeller cartridges, like Magnum's. I do not think that it is necessary to bring the idea of ​​import substitution to an absurdity.

[uskrabut]

“Except for the electronic component base in thermal imaging sights”

Really behind forever? It doesn’t do that; the liberal economy has ruined more than one industry.

[kontrobas]

"7,62 to 51" - bourgeois standards in action ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: rjxtufh

And so what?

Nothing like that. Nothing good. All in all, the enemy at the squad level has an overwhelming advantage in range and density of fire.

Quote: rjxtufh

There were a million. Do not distort.

Give an example if not difficult.

Quote: rjxtufh

I have a different opinion. See above.

Doomsday War certainly doesn’t count, huh?

Quote: rjxtufh

Very funny".

Glad you have a sense of humor. It's boring to communicate with sad bores.

Quote: rjxtufh

Our ancestors easily managed without them.

Bullet fool bayonet well done? An asymmetric response to network-centric hello?

Quote: rjxtufh

And I suggested making an automatic machine chambered for 5.45x39 mm with a barrel of 500-520 mm and n / s bullets of the order of 925 m / s. With balanced automation and normal accuracy of fire. And use it for now.

Yeah, nowhere else in the world has this cuckoo clock taken off, and we still have it for quite objective reasons, but you are promoting it intensively. The question is, why?

Quote: rjxtufh

Do you hear yourself from the outside? “People with the psychology of the times of feudalism” cannot pull anyone anywhere, except into this very feudalism.

Well, they can’t, if you succeed.

Quote: rjxtufh

Under capitalism (bourgeois society), the overwhelming minority of the world's population lives at this time. Those. capitalism still grow and grow. And you

So what? By the way, a rather controversial statement. To grow, you need some kind of prerequisites, but what kind?

Quote: rjxtufh

What is it like? People advocating capitalism, they are looking to the future. And who else?

What future? Capitalism is now slowly fading away. At the same time, he wants to carry humanity to his grave. And you are helping him hard in this.

[rjxtufh]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

All in all, the enemy at the squad level has an overwhelming advantage in range and density of fire.

And once again I ask you, why did you decide so? Having a machine gun is not an advantage.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Give an example if not difficult.

The war with Napoleon. Numerous Russian-Turkish wars. The war with Japan. Etc.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Doomsday War certainly does not count

Of course.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

but you are promoting them hard.

I did not understand your sarcasm.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

and we still have, for quite objective reasons,

In Russia, even 1377 Joules cannot yet really balance. What to say about 1455 J?

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Well, they can’t, if you succeed.

You joke again funny.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

To grow, you need some kind of prerequisites, but what kind?

Just the development of human civilization. And nothing more.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Capitalism is now slowly fading away.

And I again draw your attention to the fact that in the bourgeois society today lives the vast majority of the world's population. The rest live in feudal and slave formations. Therefore, bourgeois society is the future. And his development potential is huge.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

And you are helping him hard in this.

Wow. Which, it turns out, I'm global.

[PSih2097]

rjxtufh,
damn, after reading your comments, you need to give the team Shoigu, so that all of our MO during the day would get acquainted with the reviews of our users of our site based on their comments.

[ARES623]

Quote: PSih2097

damn, after reading your comments, you need to give the team Shoigu, so that all of our MO during the day would get acquainted with the reviews of our users of our site based on their comments.

Everyone would then go crazy, even who was insane .... (Almost according to V.S. Vysotsky)

[Garden1212]

Glamorous rifle for glamorous sniper guys ,,,,,,,,, A 3,5km rifle HAHA is not a rifle but an artillery barrel ,,,,,, ready to shoot nonsense from behind firing positions ,,,,,